LadyGang - The Truth About Sleep Training - What Actually Works

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

Sleep training doesn't have to mean "cry it out." Pediatric sleep guru Xan Coffman is busting the biggest myths about baby sleep, the truth about the dreaded 4-month sleep regression, why overtired babies actually sleep worse, and the science-backed methods that help babies (and parents) finally get a full night's rest. Plus, Xan shares her best travel sleep hacks, how to fix those brutal 5:30am wakeups, and why it's never too late to teach your child healthy sleep habits. Thank you for supporting our sponsors!BabyGang is presented by Better Help. Sign up and get 10% off at https://BetterHelp.com/BABYGANGSkylight Frames: Go to https://MySkylight.com/BABYGANG for $30 off your 15-inch Calendar.HERS: Ready to reach your goals? Visit https://forhers.com/babygang to get personalized, affordable care that gets you.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to the Baby Gang. I'm your host, Becca Tobin, and thank you so much to our presenting sponsor, BetterHelp. I am very excited for today's episode. Sleep and sleep training and all that stuff is a real hot button issue. I have an expert on who I have been following on Instagram for a while just because I know I'm about to be in the trenches again with a new baby. And for me, the most anxiety-inducing part of anticipating this baby is the sleep, because I need my sleep. That sounds selfish. I eventually need my sleep, because I know I'm not going to get it. It's not realistic to think that, and I'm just getting my mind right. You know what I'm saying? I don't have much to say,

except we're all in the swing of summer. I hope everyone's having a lovely time. I know that between camps and travel and just all the things, it kind of doesn't slow down in summer. I thought I was so ready for us to stop having to wake up, you know, at a certain time and get this kid to school. And it's the same. It's the same. It's just that your kids are around more and life doesn't slow down. So it's almost juggling more things when my naive self thought it was going to be slightly chiller. Is parenting ever chiller? Let's be honest. But here to make things chiller is an incredible sleep expert. She has her own company. But I say this in the interview, but I also just want to say there is no right way. There's no wrong way. There's just

different ways. And we're not trying to shame anybody. We're not trying to make anybody feel bad. We're not trying to pressure anybody. Do you. You know your kid, you know your baby, and this is just somebody who is coming in and helping us with some support if you're looking for it and some information, stuff that I didn't know and stuff that's actually making this whole thing much easier to envision the sleep training of it all. Okay, here she is. our guest today is zan kaufman she is a pediatric sleep expert founder of my baby sleepology and mom of three girls for over 10 years she's helped families navigate everything from newborn sleep deprivation to toddler sleep struggles using a science-backed approach focused on sleep biology

and circadian rhythms my baby sleepology zan and her team have helped over 10 000 families get better rest. She is passionate about helping parents realize they don't have to figure sleep out on their own. When she's not helping families get more rest, you'll find her juggling life with three daughters, wow, building her business and advocating for sleep as one of the most important foundations for family wellness. Welcome to Baby Gang. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Three girls. Three girls. It's a lot, but it's truly the best. I always say like every girl needs a

sister and they have two each. Amen. Lucky crew. I know I have an older sister. And when I found out we were having a boy, I was like, shoot. I mean, I wouldn't change it at all. But our next baby, you're just gonna have to have another one. We're having another one in August. So yes, so we're and it's a girl. But but you know, part of me is like, she's not gonna have a sister. And we have more embryos. None of them are girls. I was going to say you're going to have to have another one, but no. But having my sister has been she is my lifeline. I know that people that don't have them, they find this in other relationships. I know that I'm dramatic about it, but I really do think I don't know how I would have gotten through life. She's my second mom because she's older. She gets me. She loves me unconditionally. She'll also call me out on my bullshit. It's like the greatest friend that you could ever have. And I know it's not like that for everybody. Right. But how old are your girls? My oldest is 10 and a half, which is when I started sleep consulting. And then my middle just turned eight and my youngest is five and a half. So they're big. But you're also out of the woods, you know? I am out of the woods. I tell people, I'm like, once your youngest is five,

like life is going to be different. Yeah. I can sense that with all of the people around me. And I'm so stupid. My son will be, he'll be turning five right after we have a newborn. So really, we're just going to rinse and repeat. Well, he'll be helpful. Yes. I am finding that as much as I wanted them to be close together in age, and we tried so hard at just the timing of it all, just, you know, divine timing. But now I'm seeing that him specifically probably needed this time to mature and want to help, want to be a helper. And I don't think he would have handled, listen, I know every kid adjusts, but I think him specifically, like, probably wouldn't have handled a sibling very well much sooner. Right. I swear the timing always works out how it should.

And that's going to be a very special, amazing thing for your whole family. So I'm so excited for you guys. We're excited. I'm not excited to sleep train. No. Well, I'm so excited to talk about that today because like so many people are like terrified of the four month regression. They're like, oh, my newborn is sleeping so well. I'm terrified of this regression. I'm like, if I could do one thing, it would be to empower people to not be afraid of the four-month sleep regression. Because at that point, I mean, your life changes in a good way because there's so much more you can control. You can get them on a schedule. You can get them sleeping through the night and taking nice long naps because that's when they have an internal clock. What triggers

that regression is their internal clock warning. And that's a good thing because you can take advantage of the biology. So before four months, it's just kind of, what would you describe that as? It's just go with the flow, really random sleep windows, all that. Yeah. So the first 12 weeks is what's considered the fourth trimester. So I always try to explain to new moms, especially type A new moms who are like, I need a schedule. This isn't working. No one's sleeping. And I'm like, you're going to have to go with the flow because those first 12 weeks they have day night confusion. Their days and nights are literally flip-flopped. They're up all night. They're sleeping all day long. And if they could, if they could be inside of us for 12 more weeks,

they would be, but they can't. So our job, those first 12 weeks is to replicate that womb environment. So like the five S's like really helps replicate that womb environment and just like, like really just going with the flow and knowing it's going to be fluid. You might have some great days and some not so great days, but as you're inching towards that 16 week mark, which is three and a half months, that's when it all changes. And you can take advantage of the fact that they have that bio rhythm now and take advantage of light and dark, which helps like the darkness helps with melatonin and melatonin helps us fall asleep and stay asleep. So yeah, those first 16 weeks, I'd say it's just about going with the flow, control what you can. So there are

are things that you can do to help promote more sleep and easier sleep, but it's really just about practice. Like I would say practice is the, the one big word that I would provide my clients is like, just practice from 12 to 16 weeks practice. There's no stress or pressure for things to be perfect, but at 16 weeks we can work towards that perfection. I like that whole mentality. Just practice because it's really because I think you think at least for me as a first time mom I felt like everything I did it was so important that I did it the right way or else because there's so much fear mongering on the internet that it's like you can fuck him up forever you can fuck him up when he's 40 if you do this thing wrong I'm like what oh my god I'm gonna fuck him up I

already fucked him up it's so I know it was like the feeling of having a brand new car and I'm like okay you you baby it so much and you're like that first time you get that scratch or you fuck it up you're like well there it goes like it's over might as well just get a new car yes i know i know i just had a newborn consult with someone like a month ago new mom first time mom and she had a night nurse who was like do not swaddle your baby if you swaddle your baby you're gonna ruin them they're never gonna be able to sleep like all these things and i was like no swaddle your baby. If you're not swaddling your baby, they're going to, they have that startle reflex. They're going to be waking up all night long. Like you're not helping them

by doing that. So early on, like do what helps you're, you're not a hero for not swaddling your baby. Like it is okay to do the things that help you all get better rest. I did contact naps with all three of my girls until they were 16 weeks old because I knew I had the confidence of like, I can do whatever the heck I want these first 16 weeks. There's nothing I can't change at that 16 week mark. Yes. I did practice from 12 to 16 weeks with them with like sleep shaping where you start putting them down drowsy versus like totally asleep. But I would do that for like two naps, not all four naps, you know? So I think for new moms, like all of the hormones that are pumping through us and like the doubt and the, the baby blues, the, I mean, everything that's

going on, like to put pressure on yourself for sleep to be perfect. It's just not going to be perfect. Right. I mean, it's the first lesson in parenting a human. You know, you can prepare all you want, but they're going to do whatever they want to do. Exactly. Well, you say, you know, go with the flow and like you're saying, the swaddling. And are there are there any things in those first 12 weeks where you're like, yes, go with the flow, but avoid these things or your life will be harder when you do try to go and sleep? So not regarding sleep training, but I would say that there are things that you can do to help your baby at that time, correct like their day-night confusion. So day-night confusion is typically corrected between six and eight weeks.

Okay. So there are things that you can do to help correct that faster. Like my first baby, it was a full eight weeks because I didn't know, I didn't know as much as I do now. My second and my third it was like six weeks so things that you could do is have your baby napping in in sunlight by a window go out for walks when it's light out so that their understanding light is for shorter spurts of sleep whereas darkness is for those longer stretches of sleep they don't have melatonin so the dark at that age so the darkness and the light is not going to trigger like melatonin for them, but it's going to tell them, tell their brain, okay, these cues are what means more sleep or shorter sleep. Swaddling the five S's helps tremendously. Cap naps at two hours of sleep.

So when they're really young, you want to cap naps at two hours of sleep indefinitely, but when they're really young, it can be really tough to wake them up after two hours. Like my girls would go on like two and a half, three hours if I let them, but just waking them up, even if it's for like 20, 30 minutes to like correct that day-night confusion, it can help tremendously. Yeah. That's so helpful. Okay. So obviously everybody can do what they want to do. I think people are very sensitive about being told what's right and what's wrong. And this is a method and it's a method that's backed in science and you have found it to be really successful and you've helped a lot of

families. I guess there's a bunch of different methods. So whether parents have a higher or very low cry tolerance, didn't even know cry tolerance was a thing until I had this baby, that sleep training, it doesn't mean they need to let their baby cry it out. So explain that because that's so important. Yes. Oh my gosh. So I feel like there are, I know there are so many myths out there about sleep training. And when people work with our company, we like on our one hour intake call, about 15 to 20 minutes of that conversation is talking through all of the different methods and helping them to decide on one that feels comfortable for them. Because if they are not comfortable with it, it's not going to work because they are going to lack

the consistency and consistency is so critical in helping your baby to learn how to sleep well. So yes, cry it out is an option. What that truly means is you place your baby down at bedtime and you are not going in there until at least 6 30 AM, unless of course they need a night feeding or two, which is also totally fine. And we'll talk about that too. Yeah. But cry it out is an option. I would say with the thousands of families that we work with, 10 to 15% of clients choose that method because they feel comfortable with it. There is no harm that can be done using that method. I actually did an Instagram live with Dr. Sujay. He's the head of pediatric sleep and neurology at Duke. And he on Instagram is that sleep doc. He is incredible. And on that Instagram

and Lively said, sleep training is safe and effective if you want to do it. Like no one is forcing anyone to sleep train, but cry it out is safe and effective. You just have to feel comfortable using that method. Now that's one of them. Another method is Ferber, where you set your timer at an interval that you feel comfortable with. You can start it at one minute, three minutes, five minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes. And once that timer is up, you go into your baby's room, you console them for one to two minutes. You can pat them, shush them, stroke their face, chat with them. And you're in there for one to two minutes and then you leave. And then you go in at the second interval and then the third interval and you just keep going in until your

baby settles and falls asleep. And then the next time they wake up, you rinse and repeat and do the same thing. So that method can also be modified where, okay, maybe you stay in a little bit longer than the one to two minutes. You know, like as a sleep consultant, we're not here to force anyone to do anything it's like okay we'll talk with them on that call and if they're like i just don't know if i'll be able to leave after the one to two minutes i'm like then just stay like stay stay a little bit longer if you feel like you need to stay with them until they're calm if you feel like you need to so you can modify the ferber method and then there's a method called pick up put down where that's more for parents with a very low cry tolerance where they really just either can't

tolerate the crying or they don't feel comfortable with their baby crying in a room by themselves. So with that method, if the baby were to start crying, they can go in right away. They're not starting a timer. They go in right away. They put the pressure of their hand on their baby's chest, or if they're on their belly, on their back, and they can do all of the consoling that they need to for, let's say three to four minutes. And if that's not working, they can pick their baby up and they can hold their baby. They're not like bouncing them, trying to get them to go back to sleep, but they're there, they're holding and comforting their baby. And then they place them back down and rinse and repeat that. So again, high, medium, very low cry tolerances. It's okay

wherever you fall. There's also another method where you could put a chair in the room and you could literally be there the entire time that they're working through it. So we're always just here for people who need the help and want the help, which is so many people. And we just try to help as many moms as possible because we know the trickle effect of what it means when someone's baby or toddler is not sleeping well, it impacts every facet of the family's life. So just knowing that there are resources out there for parents and it's not just for the parents to get better sleep, but the child's getting better quality sleep. And that helps with so many things, cognitive developments, physical developments, emotional development. Um, I can't tell you how

many clients we've worked with whose babies were not consuming very well during the day, whether it's nursing or bottles. And after a few nights of sleeping through the night or just more consolidated sleep, they're like chugging and they're like, this is, this has always been so difficult. And now they're not just sleeping better, but they're eating better too. So. wow that is amazing I'm a believer I mean we did it with my son and actually I remember the first night that we did we said okay this is going to be the night that we let him cry it out you know we know that he's full we know that he doesn't he has a dry diaper so we prepared ourselves and we were like okay should we set a timer blah blah blah he starts crying for the

first time we give him a couple minutes we go in we like shush him and blah blah blah blah he goes back to sleep. And then my husband and I sit in our room and wait for probably two hours. He never cried again. And I'm like, listen, this is a lucky thing that happened. But it's also you don't know what you're capable of and what your baby is capable of until you give the opportunity to try. Yes. Yeah. And I think that that was a huge lesson in like learning that a little bit of discomfort. And also, I have found that training ourselves that way to know that a little moment of discomfort with parenting in general for the rest of time. It will always, most of the time, be worth it to have that little moment of, you know, uncomfortableness. Like

we're not, it's very unnatural at first to feel like you're going to be the person responsible for making your baby cry. But it's a whole mindset change. I'm like, you're setting yourself up to be able to do this forever with all things parenting. Yeah. It's like now when I tell my kid he can't of a popsicle after dinner, I like I'm like, if I know if I just say no for two minutes, after two minutes, he will stop. Yes. You know, it's that type of thing. I'm like, it's it's training us. So for the the mom who's listening, who is like, I started it off all not wrong, but I just I is it too late for me to do this? Like, is there a spot in which they have gone too far or started too late? No. Okay. That's the good news in all of this. So we've worked

with countless, like 18 month, 19 month olds, 20 month olds who were co-sleeping their whole life or were literally chugging four to five bottles throughout the night because they'd wake up, the parents would run in with a bottle, wake up, run in with a bottle, like literally sleeping with bottles. And within two nights, the parents are like, why didn't I do this sooner? And so often they're like, they were ready. My child was ready. I wasn't ready. You know, like I could have done this sooner. And another sentiment is like how proud they are of their babies, of their toddlers when they're like, they're doing it. It's like this sense of like, I just need to give them a little bit of space to like see what they can do. But it's never too late. We work with three

year olds four year olds five year olds even six year olds like it is truly never ever ever too late it does not matter what habits have been ingrained in them up until the point that you decide to make a change and and even if it's a small issue like let's say every your child's sleeping pretty well but they're having one night waking where they're 11 months old and you're feeding them and you're like I know I don't need to feed them like they are chunky they are thriving but like I'm doing it cause it's easier, but I don't want to do it anymore. Like if that's your one issue, we can help with that. If your one issue is they're waking up at five 30 in the morning and you're like, Oh, whatever. Like I, I guess I can start my morning. Like they slept

through the night. Like, no, we can get your child sleeping till like 6 30 AM or later. So whether it's like all of the issues under the sun or just one issue, no matter how old they are, like there is help out there. And I highly encourage people to just like do some research and reach out to a sleep consultant that you feel comfortable with that's aligned with your parenting and your values and get that help. Because when we're not sleeping well, we are we're not our best selves. No, I knew going into being a first time parent, I had to have like a tough talk with myself to say, you know, I've had dogs my whole life. And I am the person that would bring my dog to restaurants. And I would, you know, boil chicken for my dog. And so I thought

I'm so fucked. I'm so fucked because I can't do this. But because I made a deal with myself, because I did know that I would not be my best unless I had a baby that could do this eventually and allow me the sleep because I need sleep. I'm not one of those crazy people that's like four hours. I'm great. Do you have situations? Luckily, Zach and I, my husband, were very aligned on this whole thing I do have friends who you know she doesn't want to do it the husband is desperate he's begging you know like we've got to get our lives back you know it's so and it's so common as a mom like the hormones like you're saying we're mama bear we don't want to see them suffer and it's not suffering but in our eyes at that time it is one of my girlfriends she agreed but

then she had to sort of like not be in the room she had to be away in the guest bedroom not have a baby monitor and she allowed her husband to do it. But what do you do with with couples that aren't aligned on what they want to do? So most of the people who reach out to us, even if one has like an extremely low cry tolerance and if the other one's like, let's just do cry it out. Yeah. Most of the people who have a very low cry tolerance are to your point, like they'll go sleep in another room or, you know, they put headphones in and the dad or the mom, because sometimes it's the mom who has the higher cry tolerance and the dad just can't hear it, which is, I feel like sometimes even more conflicting for people

because it's like, whoa, how am I going to do this? Like, you know what I mean? Like, anyway, but typically on those calls where they're at opposite ends of the spectrum, I say, let's either try to meet in the middle or towards the lower side of the cry tolerance and start lower. We can always build up from there. Like if you're two nights in and you're like, you know what, this feels okay. I'm seeing there's light at the end of the tunnel here. I can, I can give my baby a little bit more space. So I would say start more conservative and then increase to a slightly more direct versus being like, okay, we'll just do cry it out. And then like six hours in, you're like, what the, you know, and then you're like, I can't do this at all. So like start at a manageable

point, I guess would be my suggestion. And another thing that we explain all the time is how much timing and your child's schedule will impact their ability to sleep well. So our biggest differentiator from a lot of other programs out there is that we're really leveraging the science behind sleep and those biorhythms. So there are certain windows throughout the day where it is easier for babies and children to fall asleep and they will sleep more soundly if we hit that wave correctly. So I explain it like if you're in the ocean and you're swimming and you want to get back to the shore and you hit that wave perfectly, you're able to swim in a lot more easily than if you miss the wave and you're having to do all the work yourself. So if you hit that wave at the right

time, your child will fall asleep more easily. So if we combine the timing factor with consistency, see, most of our clients see progress, like meaningful progress within two to four nights. And when you see that, it's easier to keep going because you're like, this isn't for nothing. Like I'm already seeing the results. That's so interesting. And I actually saw you on your website. It's actually very helpful. There's so many videos of you kind of giving these snippets of knowledge, but you talked about that and about hitting that wave kind of a thing. And I do remember with my son, I knew when I had missed it because it was just such a nightmare to get him down for that nap or whatever it was. But that's amazing to be able to predict it because

I felt like if I'm lucky at 2 p.m. today, he's going to be in that window. So that's fascinating that there's actually like a way in which you predict it. Yeah. Yeah. To relate it to adults. So obviously we have a circadian rhythm around like two, three o'clock, many adults get tired and you're like, Oh, I'm so tired. I could really use a nap. It's not because of lunch. It's your circadian rhythm. The melatonin levels are peaking.

And then you get a surge of energy around 7 PM and you're like, Ooh, this feels good again. And then you're tired again around 10 PM. That's our circadian rhythm, but it's at different times a day for children. So it's just a powerful tool if you learn it and it will empower so many people to learn that. Like my girls, when we like, we travel a bunch with our girls ever since my, my first, I think we were on like 14 planes her first year of life. We were like, we're not, not traveling because of this sleep thing. So let's figure the sleep out so that she's going to be an adaptable sleeper.

doesn't matter where she is. And all of my girls have been to the point that like, we'll be on vacation. And sometimes we'd be like, where's Maya? And we go in and she turned the sound machine on and she's like pulling at her pack and play. And I'm like, Oh my God, it's time for her nap. You know, because they're like, it's time. It's one o'clock. It's time for my nap. But they do know, they know. And they, they get on this really great rhythm that it doesn't matter where they are, whether they're in a walk-in closet on vacation or in their nice, cozy nursery. So people are traveling a lot this summer and people I know for myself, if I was leaving a time zone that was more than an hour off of our regular, I didn't know what the fuck to do. I was

like, do I keep him on his schedule? Does it depend how long you're going to be in that destination? What do you tell? I'm sure it's different for different ages, but what do you tell for the parents that are traveling with their babies and time changes? Yep. So it does depend the time change. Like we've helped a ton of families who are traveling to Europe, to Australia. It also depends what their goal is when they're there. So like if they have a 7 p.m. bedtime in your time zone, but you're like, you know what? We're going to be out and about. We kind of want to like take advantage of this time change and push bedtime to eight o'clock, we can, we can work and we can do that. Sometimes I'll say split the difference. If you're only going to be there

for a short period of time, if you're going to be there for say five days or longer, and you like your schedule, the first day is going to be off. No matter what you do, that first day is going to be off. But the beauty around going off of the bio rhythm is that you're going to be able to get them back on schedule because you're going to know, okay, I need to cap. If they're on a three nap schedule, you'll know I need to cap this nap at 11 a.m. So if it's a time change and I put them down at 9 a.m. and they didn't fall asleep until 10, a lot of people will be like, well, I'll just let them sleep until 12. Right. Cap that nap at 11 a.m. to get them back on your schedule and then offer the next nap at their typical, say, 1 p.m. And like you will get them back on track so quickly.

I think that's where knowledge is power really comes into play for parents is that if you have this information and you know it, it is so insanely empowering. That's the biggest thing. My husband and I talk about it all the time. We're like, what would we do if we didn't have all of this sleep knowledge and the confidence that no matter what happens, we will be able to get them back on track or keep them on track while we are traveling. But I would say for people who traveling one thing that you really can control is darkness a lot of the times like we're leaving for a three-week vacation tomorrow and I'm like I have my black trash bags pack yeah because that's something so easy I can just throw it up with some painter's tape yeah um sound machines you can put

one in the room one in the hallway bring their if they sleep with a lovey or a stuffy bring that if they have a favorite book they read like those are little things that you really can control to help replicate that environment at home. Yeah. And stay confident. Stay upbeat and confident that everything's okay. You're right. You're right.

Yeah. And that's a good advice that the first day is always going to be a shit show. I mean, it's just inevitable. And it's okay. And travel. Yeah. If they don't sleep all day long, like you're on an airplane and like whatever, they don't sleep, earlier bedtime that night.

Don't panic. Just put them down earlier. The earlier bedtime doesn't mean they're going to pop up earlier the next day. it means they will make up for that lost sleep from the day at night, which is what we call a sleep debt. So if your child is used to getting three hours worth of naps, but they only slept for one hour, they technically have almost two hours of sleep to make up for that night. And if you get them down earlier, they will repay that debt. I have a question. I feel like there's a lot of moms in my life with toddlers who who say it doesn't even matter no matter what he is waking

up at 5 30 in the morning we have tried putting him to bed later and then he still pops up at 5 30 and you kind of mentioned you touched on this before obviously you can't solve everybody's problems in this podcast but what is that is it true that some kids are just going to get up at 5 30 every morning or what is it usually that's going on it's rare that we can't help an early riser. Like in my 10 plus years that I've been doing this, I want to say there were like three people that like, I just couldn't budget. And I was like, you unfortunately have an early riser, but what we can do is change the behavior when they do wake up that it's okay that you're awake, but everyone else is sleeping and really try to not get them out of bed until at least 6 30 AM.

They can learn to hang out quietly, babble if they're a toddler, chat, like you can change that behavior, especially with a toddler or a toddler who understands, can speak or understands what you're saying. But I will say the biggest thing with early rising is that the timing is off. Either if they're on, let's say they're on one nap, that that one nap is too early. and then the gap to bedtime is too long and they're overtired. And when a child gets overtired,

cortisol is secreted, which is a stress hormone and a stimulant. And that is the number one reason for all of the sleep issues. Like if I can give parents who are listening one piece of advice, it's don't let your child get overtired no matter how old they are.

Yes, it's gonna happen from time to time, but like generally, if they're not sleeping well, think about, are they overtired? If you're like, oh, they're running around, They're crazy. They're, you know, wired. They're overtired, make bedtime a little bit earlier. But so I'd say that that's one factor is that the gap to bedtime is too long. And if that nap is too early, they're not taking advantage of that juicy sleep that they could be getting if they were hitting the peak melatonin levels too. So they might be getting a really nice two hour nap,

but maybe it's starting at the wrong time of day. The other factor could be maybe the nap is starting too late and there's not enough sleep pressure going into bedtime. And they're just letting up on steam in the early morning. And they're like, I don't have enough sleep pressure to push me through to an appropriate time of day. Wow. This is really interesting. I also, I just think about myself and, you know, obviously it's the only experience that I have. I remember feeling like, well, if I start so early with making him such a good sleeper, and independent. And we were very, you know, not strict, but we followed the rules and the routines. And he never fell asleep with me at night. He never felt I never fell asleep with

him in his toddler bed at first. And I remember having moments of being like, I'm a little envious of my friends who can occasionally do that. But I realized that I had done so much training in the beginning that now I can do that all I want. It's so nice. And I never thought like I thought I would just be at any point of doing that. I would be messing it all up and throwing it all off course. But I think because those first really those first two years, we were really even on vacation where most people are like, we just threw him in the bed with us. Like we got a king bed in the hotel. I was always like, no, we're going to do either the cot or the pack and play like it's happening. And I would be there in the hotel room and be like, wouldn't it be nice

if he was like cuddled up with me and he is now, you know, and we get home and he goes right back into his bed. Exactly. Exactly. So adaptable sleepers who are competent sleepers can sort of ping pong when you need them to. Right. Yeah. And I also do feel like just to that point side note that like even at two years old on vacation, I'm like as cute and delicious as it would be for their little human body to be in my bed. Like I wouldn't sleep because they'd be kicking me, kicking me moving all around like it just wouldn't be good it wouldn't be good for anyone but to have the flexibility of like do it when you want to I mean there were times that I would take my girls out of their crib they're like they have been sleeping for three hours and

I would take them out of their crib and just bring them into the rocking chair and just rock them and like get my fix that way of like that smushy body on me that's just like holding them and you know what i mean so like it's not ever over like you can't never do those things and another thing that we always tell our clients is the 80 20 rule so like control what you can set a solid foundation for your child get that foundation and then once they're doing really well and they're in a rhythm 80 20 control what you can 80 of the time the other 20 like have fun do a travel do a nap on to go do a contact nap, like be flexible with it. And it is not all or nothing. Yeah. That's good advice too, because I feel like I have friends who get nervous about their in-laws staying with

the baby or whatever, because they don't stay on the quote schedule. And it's like, if you could just release a little bit of that worry and well, you kind of touched on this before, but the impact of quality sleep for the entire family. I've watched this firsthand with so many friends and there's such a huge divide between, and I hate to say, I mean, I'm probably going to get destroyed for talking about this, but I have had two people in my life whose husbands, two very close people, practically sisters to me, who they were not down to do anything other than co-sleep. They wanted to sleep with that baby and they rolled over every, whenever the baby woke up, they rolled over and they put the boob in the mouth like it was and that happened for a very long time

and um I had two of the husbands say to me can you talk to her because I want my bed back and I I I can't I know I have no room like no leg to stand on yeah but um I and I didn't know have the tools of what to tell my friend because I'm not going to tell her what to do this is her instinct. This is her thing. But I guess a couple years down the line, it was so clear that it had impacted so much of the family rhythm. Yeah, absolutely. So that's another misconception. A lot of my best friends go to sleep. And I'm like, you do what feels good for you. And if it's no longer working for you, your child, or your family unit, I am here to help you. right? But there is an option of room sharing. You can put the crib in your room, put the pack

and play in your room, have them right there, basically next to you, but not in your bed. So that is a very, very good option for people who also think like maybe it's all or nothing that they can get their bed back. Just put them in the room next to you. So you can like feel that feeling of like, okay, when I wake up, I can, I can see them and I can, I can give them that reassurance. They're there for me. So there is that option as well of room sharing and you can room share and sleep train too if you wanted to. Yeah. Cause I think also a lot of the moms would like my best friend said to me, she goes, it's just so much easier for me. Um, I think in the immediate to like not have to get up to go to the bassinet or not at whatever, whatever. Right. But

I think that's a very short lived convenience. Yeah. Yeah. I personally do when it comes to sleep training, I think that if a child can have their own space, it's often easier for everyone, because especially for a child who's nursing, they can smell mom, if someone doesn't have an option, I'd say, put them on the other side of the bed or swap sides with your husband, whoever, you know, right. And, and do it that way. But yeah, I think having a little bit of a boundary there helps everyone. And another thing, like we've also worked with parents who are like, we want to room share the first six months of our baby's life. And they're like, but we do have the nursery all set up. Could we maybe do it in there for the first two or three nights and then move

them back in the room? And I'm like, absolutely. That's a fair way to do it as well. So there are flexible ways to accommodate people's feelings and how they feel about the proximity. But one thing you said is it would be easier if I just fed them. Yeah. Yeah. We get that all the time where they're like, but I could just pop the pacifier back in their mouth. I could just feed them. And then everyone's back to sleep. I'm like, but there is also the option to get your baby just sleeping through the night indefinitely. If we just put our best foot forward here and do all of the things and it will be a thing of the past in a week from now where you're not even getting that interrupted sleep. No one is. Right. And you can do all that in the first three months,

right? You can do all the convenience co-sleeping. Yes. I mean, I don't recommend co-sleeping because to me, there's no safe way to co-sleep. But I had all of my babies in a bassinet next to me because no way was I waking up, going down the hall to get them, feed them, all the things. No, I had them literally next to me in a bassinet until they were 16 weeks old. The day we sleep trained them at 16 weeks, they went in their own room and they did great. Yeah. Do you recommend, so I don't know if this was just maybe my nanny did this or something, but he was in our room in the bassinet for a little bit.

then we did a like a mini crib that was further away from it and like more more resembled the crib environment i'm sure it doesn't even fucking matter and then during the naps during the day was when she would put him in his own room in his own nursery so that she her theory was like he'll be familiar with this place so when you do start doing it at night it won't be such does that have an impact or does that matter it's a it's a great way to practice again going back to the practice word, and getting them used to that environment. But also, I had my girls in a snoo, my youngest, in a snoo with the motion on until she was 16 weeks old. Night one, plopped her in her crib, and literally in two nights, she was sleeping through the night. And that went from snoo next

to my head with motion into her crib in her room where she had napped there a few times. But yes, it can help ease them into that environment and that transition, but it's also not something that people have to stress out about. Right. Okay. Well, that's good to know. All right. So what are your top tips? Just like hard and fast. Yep. So number one tip is don't let your child get overtired. And then choosing a sleep training method that feels comfortable for your family, that you can follow through with and be consistent. And then the final one is also, if you're struggling, reach out.

You know, we've had families who have reached out, like moms who are crying to us on the phone. They're like, I feel like such a failure that I could not figure this out. And I'm like, most people can't figure this out. Most people need the support. A lot of like what working with a sleep consultant is, is one, the emotional support.

So in our name, Sleepology, My Baby Sleepology, it's the science of sleep. One thing that we do with our clients that we are known for is educating them along the way. So we don't just tell them what to do. We also tell them why we're doing it. Because I think if parents had a better understanding of what is going on biologically with their child and also from a progress standpoint, that it would just put them at ease. And that is such a difficult thing because no one wants to hear their child cry.

No one. But if you know what you're working towards and you know how your baby is progressing, it's a lot easier to stay consistent. So I would just say like, if people are struggling, reach out for help. See what it is that you need. Maybe you need two weeks of full blown unlimited tech support, or maybe you just need five days of a few touch points to like get you through it right it's different for everyone depending where they're at in their journey and how their baby is sleeping but yeah i'd say that those are

my top three tips okay those are good well how can people find you how can they work with you what's the best way yes so definitely follow us on instagram at my baby sleepology there are a ton of tips, insights, tricks, all the things on there. Our website is mybabysleepology.com and people can schedule a 15 minute intro call. It is free. And the purpose of that call is for us to learn more about what's going on with your baby, provide some insights, and then discuss how we can help. Amazing. Well, you're doing the Lord's work. Thanks, girl. We need our sleep. We need our sleep and so do our kids you know it's just my son really he really i think so much of him thriving has been attributed to that really great sleep we can count on yeah and i sending i'm not

trying to be smug to any moms who are sleep deprived dealing with some crazy sleep stuff there is hope it's also not your fault it's not too late you've got this um okay well thanks for being here it was really great and selfishly i got some really good insight for my number two thanks for being here it's gonna be great thanks i'm so excited for you thank you hey ontario come on down to bet mgm casino and see what our newest exclusive the price is right fortune pick has to offer don't miss out play exciting casino games based on the iconic game show only at betmgm check out how we've reimagined three of the show's iconic games like plinko cliffhanger and the big wheel into fun casino game features don't forget to download the betmgm

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