Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Are You and Your Partner Out of Sync in the Bedroom?

Episode Date: November 27, 2024

So, what do you do when your sexual energy levels just don’t match up? One partner might be feeling a bit neglected or even a little angry, which can create some serious tension in the relationship.  In this episode of The Language of Love Session, I’m bringing you an intimate counseling session with a brave duo, Brian and Stacey. They’re tackling some tough intimacy challenges, and their story is one that many of you might find relatable. Stacy has faced some significant sexual trauma, which understandably affects her ability to connect intimately with Brian. Meanwhile, Brian is craving that physical affection and deeper sexual connection. But here’s the twist: Stacy often feels discomfort and even a splash of anger in those intimate moments.  Here’s what we cover: The power of and ways to validate one another’s other’s feelings How trauma can affect your intimate life and what to look out for The idea of creating “green zones” for intimacy—safe spaces where partners with a trauma history can engage sensually  at their own pace When it might be a good idea to hit pause on sex for now to rebuild trust and comfort The role trauma therapy can play in healing, including some powerful techniques like somatic experiencing and EMDR to aid healing I’d love to hear from you! If you have questions, stories, or just want to chat about this episode, email me at [e-mail] or visit my website. Let’s keep the conversation going! Also, whether you’re in a relationship or not, check out my free Quantum Sex course. It’s designed to enhance your sexual response and help you achieve full-body orgasms, use sex magic, and deepen your connection with your partner. Plus, if you or someone you love has a trauma history, the book I recommended was The Courage to Heal. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman, and for the last 30 years, I've been helping people learn to love and be loved better. Welcome to the Language of Love Sessions. This is where I get to work with you one-on-one, on air. You, my listeners, my goal in these sessions is to empower you to enjoy better relationships, both with others and with yourself, and to help you embrace how precious and sacred your body, your love life, and your sexuality really is. It's time we all become fluent in the language of love. All right, Brian and Stacey, welcome to the language of love. Tell me what's going on and

let's see if we can help you out. Well, what is going on? What is not going on? You know, i think everything's cool like um obviously i love my wife stacy and she's uh gorgeous and beautiful and we've got three kids and you're married it'll be 25 years this june coming up 2025 so you know that's cool and everything a house and full-time business she works with me in the business as well so and she does some other side hustle stuff too so it's awesome but i think the one kind of stumbling block that we're we keep hitting a snag with over and over is the intimacy part like so you know if we have in the moment sometimes or you know we're doing like what having sex maybe once a week probably an average maybe twice depends on your time of

the month and stuff right it's one and a half times a week let's just say but like it's it's you know it's one-sided it's i'm trying to i guess mostly fulfill her need and as much as i fulfill her need i still get excited of course and everything and i'm happy but still i think there's some of my you know my needs are still not being fulfilled and i feel like um i feel guilty too though because you know i'm like oh i need my needs fulfilled and meanwhile i also feel guilty because michelle's had some sexual trauma before in the past so i feel kind of guilty of asking for that but yet i want that so i'm in this kind of wrestling in my mind thing of like i hate putting pressure on her but i still always want to ask and if it comes to oral sex for now

I don't even really ask anymore for it. I might say it here and there, but I barely even ask for it because I don't expect it. And I don't really want to force that on her either, right? No, you don't. All right. So I'm going to get to Stacey in a minute. But just so I understand what you're saying, when you talk about your needs, you say you're having sex or physical intimacy once or twice a week.

and what are your needs that aren't being met? It sounds like the oral sex is one need that you wish could be met, but what else do you mean when you say that your needs aren't being met? Do you need more sex? Do you need different sex? What is it that's not being met?

Even the simplest thing of like kissing, it's hard for my wife. Like she can't really even, like we don't, you know, maybe pecks here and there, but like French kissing is tough, spontaneous spur of the moment, very tough. most things have to be planned or a certain time and i feel like you know i can perform for her but obviously that doesn't get reciprocated and maybe i guess in the bedroom or whatever it is

certain positions are pretty much the same all the time and you know if it was a time to say like we're both gonna maybe climax whatever that it'll never happen like twice is very rare ever happens twice or three times or four and you hear these ideas and fantasies like oh my god that'd be amazing if we kept going like what if we actually did it again and again and like after once she's done like she does she doesn't want to do it again and you alluded to trauma which obviously can play a role in all of this and i'm going to get into that i'm going to let stacy tell her story but just so i get the context tell me again how long you've been together we've been together for 27 years but married for 24 okay and how many kids if any three kids 21 18 14 so 14 to

21 okay all right so stacy hi as you sit here and listen to your husband talk about what's missing from your sex life i just want to understand from you like how you're experiencing all of this first of all, how you feel about being in this conversation in the first place, how you're experiencing it from your end, and what he's talking about when he's talking about the trauma history. Well, that's a lot. Start with how you feel about even being in here in this conversation. Obviously, you want to be here. I think it's good. I want to try and be hopeful because I almost feel apprehensive that maybe this isn't going to work or maybe I'm unfixable. But I do like the idea that this is happening because finally something is is making sense where

this is taken seriously because it's not just me making it up there's something really wrong yeah take your time like i feel bad for him but it feels worse inside for me and i don't like pretending i don't like feeling uncomfortable inside where I have to pretend I'm not here while we're experiencing things and I don't know whether that's exactly the same feeling I had as a child I don't know it might be but like there's certain things for example the oral sex I just can't do it yeah and I don't know if that's what happened when I was a child because I don't remember that I remember certain things but I don't remember that I remember seeing a penis and feeling

totally disgusted so I don't know how I'm gonna get myself out of that because sometimes too when we're doing certain things I freeze and I get very angry to the point where you know I'm like stop don't do this don't do that and I'm very mean but I get so angry because I have to say something. Yeah, of course. And what you're talking about is are all trauma reactions. So I want to understand a little bit what it is, the nature of, of the trauma you've experienced. First of all, that you are not hopeless. There's everyone I find can be, I won't say fixed because I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I think what happens is we have a natural reaction to trauma. And when it's not addressed and not properly healed, then it plays out in what's

called post-traumatic stress reactions, right? So that would be the anger or the disassociation is what you're describing where you kind of leave the room. And that's what we do as little children to survive. What's happening is we leave our bodies and go someplace else. Cause if we were And that's a beautiful coping mechanism. Thank goodness we can do that. But it does not serve once you're wanting to be present with an actual partner who you love and care about. And so help me understand just so I get the context.

And you don't need to go into more detail than you're comfortable with. But what is the nature of the trauma that you experienced? So I was sexually abused as a child from the ages of seven to ten and a half and then 16. And I was sexually abused by nine people. And three of them were family members. And they were kind of like regulars. So that happened for three and a half years straight. And like, my dad's brother was the one who actually probably messed me up a lot. Because I remember as a kid I would be tied up like he would tie me up and I don't know what he would be doing at the back of me which is probably why I get really tense in my butt area because he was

probably doing something but I think I disappeared while that was happening but I would find myself like random nights where I would be on top of somebody or somebody would be grinding against me because my parents would have these random single men or not single men men who would come from India and they would stay with us because they didn't have a place to stay and then next thing you know they're in my room and they're either grinding on me or I'm on top of them and trying to pretend I'm asleep I would find myself in the shower and they would watch me have a shower there's so many things but so sorry you can ask me and I'll tell you yeah well let me ask you this because I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg that you've told me but it sounds like

you were living in an environment where the grown-ups were not protecting you enough and were you ever able to tell them what happened did they know what was happening I did at 16 when my I was in class and we were talking about abuse. And I tried to tell my mom and she told me to shut up and forget about it because she was almost raped by her uncle. And she just said, just forget about it. Yeah. Yeah. So there was no acknowledgement, no support and no protection. Right. Yeah, which of course makes the trauma so much harder to hold when you can't, when you don't get the validation and support from the family, especially once you come forward.

I'm so sorry. And unfortunately, that's more the norm than the exception. What you've been through in terms of telling your parents or telling the caretakers is because they're colluding in it, if only not necessarily by actively enabling it and encouraging it, goodness forbid, but by being unwilling to acknowledge it. And it's usually, like you said, because of their own trauma, but that doesn't help you any. So have you ever been in any kind of treatment or therapy for the trauma? No, I just try to help myself because I came here when I was 16 and a half, 17. And I had a guidance counselor who connected me to a social

worker here she tried to help me as much as she could and she asked me to bring in my parents so that she could tell them exactly what I experienced and my parents had a fit they said I don't want to get brainwashed you're lucky you weren't raped you know you're not that special for nine people to do things to you so they didn't even believe you or acknowledge it and they wouldn't participate in the help. Oh, I'm so sorry. So no, I haven't, I've tried to go get help with mindfulness, but I can't, I can't sit with my thoughts. Mindfulness is not the solution for you yet. I mean, that is the solution, a teeny tiny part of the solution and, but not in the immediate. So what you're describing and all of the issues that you guys are facing in your sexual relationship

are totally normal trauma reactions. The problem is that you're now, I don't know, how old are you now? 47. Okay. So you're 47. So this has been 35, 40 years, 40 years, basically that this has been held in your body and compounded, right? And so you have the trauma, you know, what you need is not mindfulness, but trauma therapy. And you guys live, where are you living? Toronto, Canada. Because Canada has national healthcare. And I know because I have some, I've had some colleagues and friends in Canada that there are actually, it's better than the United States in terms of mental health resources that are covered by the state. I'm assuming, I mean, few people can afford to

pay out of pocket for trauma therapy, but the nice thing is that there are government resources. I mean, if you call up any doctor's office or go to your, you know, or your OBGYN or anyone and referrals, the kind of trauma therapy that you really need is in the category of what we would call somatic experiencing because the trauma, especially when it happens that early, but frankly, for any kind of trauma, somatic experiences is probably the biggest part of healing. And it goes kind of beyond the thinking brain. I mean, part of it is to speak out loud what happened to you.

But my guess is that you've done that and you've done that with your husband. You've done that with the social worker. You've maybe done that with other people. the talking will only get you so far. The trauma is held in the body memory, just like you're experiencing where you have an automatic reaction to something and you don't even necessarily remember that specific injury or incident, but your body is sure as shit remembers it. So what somatic experiencing does is help you access where it's being held in the body and release it. And sometimes, I mean, it's painful because you might be re-experiencing it, but you're

re-experiencing it with the support of a clinician that knows how to not only help hold it and bear compassionate witness and support you through it, but also teach you ways to re-regulate after you've had that moment of pain processing it. And the other thing that's involved in somatic experiencing is something called EMDR yeah I actually did talk to my doctor about it and I did let him know because I had a really hard time when he referred me to go get a pap test and this one doctor had really bad bedside manner and I said I'm not doing this again and then I had to tell him exactly what happened to me as a child wasn't not in great detail but I had to tell him and he didn't refer me to anyone. He just said, just talk to me about it.

Ew. Well, I think you need to call. I'll look into it too, but I know from the past when I've had some friends or colleagues or even a client from Canada that they were able to call. There must be a way. I mean, even if you Google it, there must be a way, a national organization or hotline or something, because I know for a fact that they do cover, they provide services to people who have had sexual trauma. I mean, they certainly do in the Inuit community. I see that all the time, but they also do in the general community as well. So there are resources available, but the main thing to know is that this kind of supported intensive trauma therapy is the only way that you can move through this.

Now, there are programs like the Self-Healer Circle. I think it is Nicole LaPerla is her name, I believe, who does that online. But truthfully, this kind of trauma is not something that you can really heal on your own. You really need support. It's like trying to hypnotize yourself. You know, you can only do that so far. Not that you're going to be hypnotized, but that's the only kind of metaphor that comes to me, you know, when you've had this much trauma and it's compounded trauma, not only because it happened over so many years and with so many different people, but then, so that's a compounded trauma in and of itself, but then you have it compounded on top of that with the family's essential re-traumatization by being unwilling to support, right? And then what happens is you internalize that.

I mean, I think you know, I hope you know that none of this was your fault and that there's nothing that you could have done or not done as a little child that could have or would have was your parents' job to do that and your caretaker's jobs, and they didn't. But that piece of shame and self-blame that so many victims carry with them is a piece of the healing. but I don't feel or sense a lot of that here. Thank goodness. Right. I do have a bit of shame because one of the family members that abused me was a female and I was very fond of her and she was older than me, but she abused me the same for three and a half years. And at that time

I had to kind of help myself with, you know, it did feel good, but that's just a normal reaction when your body's being put through those things doesn't mean I actually enjoyed that and I went through such a lot of mental quarrels with myself because I thought straight because I so I was raised in the Middle East that's where I came from and so you couldn't talk about this kind of stuff there it was taboo and I thought coming to Canada would probably help me get a sex change thinking that I'm actually okay with females or that I'm actually drawn to them or because of my experience with my cousin not realizing I just wanted not to be viewed as prey because I found that everywhere I turned somebody would prey on me and next thing you know I'm being groped or followed or

what have you so it took me a really long time to understand that I love being a woman I am beautiful and yeah, I am attractive and people are going to look, but I don't have to be groped. I don't have to be touched. I don't have to have anything happen to me that I don't want. And I did reach out to my cousin. I did tell her off and she apologized and I forgave her because I found that, you know, maybe somebody did it to her and that's why she was guaranteed. I mean, I have yet to meet an abuser who has not abused themselves, but that certainly does not mean that every person who's abused becomes an abuser by any means. Pretty much every abuser I've ever met has also been abused and that's where they learn it. But it's also really common when you have been molested

and violated by men as a young woman to not feel safe with men and to find your sexual pleasure with women as well. And almost to find, you know, if it were penises and whiskers and that kind of feeling of heavy testosterone, that was a big part of your violations, then there can be real arousal and safety due to the safety and, you know, and ease of being with a woman. So that's one thing I'll mention, not that this plays into by virtue of being aroused by the feminine, that can be a big part of it. It is also true that when you have a sexual experience with someone of the same gender, and even with someone from the opposite gender, who I hear this from women and men all the time who were molested, you know, that I didn't want it

to happen. And I feel all this shame and guilt that I was aroused when it happened. Well, that is natural when you're, there are nerve endings there and the body is designed to even lubricate woman's vagina will lubricate even while she's being brutally raped so it is the body's natural reaction to having those nerve centers touched and stimulated first of all but also there's nothing wrong with we're all on a continuum and i totally hear what you're saying that having come from a very patriarchal homophobic environment that you were raised in that were same gender relationships are evil, bad, wrong, dirty, something to be ashamed of, that that would be a layer that you were carrying.

But it's also really important to understand that that's a cultural construct. That's not the reality. And also, the truth is, and there's been so much research done on this, starting with Masters and Johnson in the 60s and 70s, but it's been redone many times since then, that we're all essentially on a continuum between total, you know, very, very few of us, if we're being completely honest, subconsciously and consciously, if you were to look at our thoughts, fantasies, motivations, experiences, few to none of us are 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual. All of us kind of fall somewhere on that continuum, leaning to one end or the other of the continuum.

Few of us are right in the middle either, which would be pure bisexuality. So to identify as heterosexual, but to find lesbian content or other women really erotic and sensual and sexual does not mean that you really are in denial and are a lesbian. I mean, it may mean that, but it certainly doesn't have to, right? And so really giving yourself the permission, because that may be a place where you do feel, and you tell me, safer in the arousal process. Right. Sometimes it's really difficult for Brian and I to, like, I can't do foreplay. It's like my mind goes somewhere else.

I get angry. I just can't. So sometimes he will suggest porn and I feel that as a kid I was raised with the fact that that's all taboo and it's bad and it's this and it's that. So sometimes I will gravitate to that and I find that I'm okay watching a man and a female, but it all depends on who the man is. The moment he treats a woman unkindly or roughly or however, or he looks a certain way, I'm done. there's no way I could do anything but I find I'm a lot more comfortable with female interaction because I don't know I feel I don't feel like I'm going to get scared or yeah female on female is more arousing and as a child because of the abuse that I had experienced I found I was I would

masturbate a lot but I would do openly not knowing what I was doing yeah of course and like I think that has affected me too, because I don't do that anymore. I won't do that anymore, because I was belted and whipped. And, you know, my mom had threatened me at one point with a knife to cut it off, because she saw me do that in the kitchen. But I can't do that right now. I don't feel I just can't do that. Yeah. So you have so many embedded wounds around your around pleasure around self-pleasure, around staying present in your body. This is why with a therapist, a somatic experiencing therapist, sex therapist, you would be sort of going through a process of, and I can certainly, I'll meet with you once a month and help you as much as I can, but I feel

like you really need, I don't mean literally hands-on, that doesn't happen in somatic experiencing, But someone in like face-to-face with you, ideally on a weekly basis, supporting you through like EMDR or something like that to kind of read, which is basically using or the other one, which I really love is the emotional freedom technique, which involves tapping and brain spotting where they can see in your eyes, you know, as memories are being triggered. if you can start working on some of those because you understand it all cognitively you understand that all the things it's for the body's automatic reaction to things that is the issue and so that's why the somatic piece emdr and or eft it's called emotional freedom technique can be really really helpful for this kind of thing to help with those. And you would do it like systematically, not only, you know, around some of the trauma memories around being touched. And then from a sex therapy or kind of a systematic desensitization space,

we would be like wanting to, which isn't going to be fun for Brian, but really taking sex off the table for a while and slowly, only because what we want to do is rebuild a sex life from the ground up that is on your terms too, Stacey. So this idea that you can just start off by not what we would call non-demand cuddling and sensual touch and just practice staying in your body and being fully present and remembering that it's your husband and not someone else and being supported through that in weekly therapy as well, that you're going to go and seek in your community that is probably covered by the state. But if you could do that on a weekly basis, you could systematically start kind of rebuilding a new sex life on your terms.

The truth is, Brian, and I'm going to hold your feet to the fire here a little bit, is that you've been together close to 30 years. My guess is she has always been this way, right? Yeah, when we first started our relationship, she was a little more open to suggestion, a little more, yeah, a little more sexual, a little more open to it. I think the only reason why is because he's my first. And I think I felt safe and telling him what happened to me. And he waited until we got married. I felt like I'm not just there to perform or right. He's not objectifying you. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's why I think I was able to do that. But I have a feeling that because ever since I had my kids, things have shifted. Yeah. It's like the traumas come back.

Yeah. And that happens both because we have children and then we identify the children, you know, we're seeing ourselves in our children. And so some of it's coming back from that. Some of it comes back. And I actually did a research. I published some research on this that you can have if you have even for women who have sexual trauma and they had and they kind of moved through it and they were able to have really good positive sexual life with someone who they really loved and trusted once they hit physiologic barriers to sex so for instance exhaustion hormonal changes that come with pregnancy and childbirth and breastfeeding these barriers that happen to all women sexually that can diminish desire when these external physical things come

in or lifestyle things come in that then diminish their sexual desire naturally for reasons that have nothing to do with the relationship, when they are not as interested in sex, somehow the sexual pursuit, even by what was a loved and trusted partner, and even before when it was fine. Now that she's not in the mood as much, it creates that same trauma reaction. It kicks that PTSD into gear. Hey, it's Dr. Laura Berman. I've been a sex, love and relationship therapist for over 30 years. And the main question I always get asked is how the heck do we spice it up in a long-term monogamous relationship? Well, if you want to take your love life, your sex life to the next level, whether you're in a relationship or not, check out my free course on quantum sex.

It's going to teach you how to take your sexual response to the next level, capable of full body orgasms, how to use sex magic to manifest your dreams, and how to connect on an even deeper level sexually with your partner. Just go to drlauraberman.com and you'll find it right there on the homepage the quantum sex free course check it out let me know what you think you understand what i'm saying there brian also um yeah we would we would love to have be guided to some help because our gp or channel practitioner i don't think you felt in a comfortable way to tell him because he was kind of he said he would be my therapist yeah no no no no you need

i did go so i'm part of this other group it's a non-charitable group and it's for adult sexual survivors and they kind of have group meetings that i try and go to but i don't find it's helping me because I'm trying to focus on my intimacy and not about how I am or how I need to. I mean, I'll look into it too, but you guys are smart and resourceful. You can Google trauma healing resources in Toronto and I'll do it too to help you. But I mean, there are definitely state your doctor obviously isn't going to be the resource for this, but my guess is you could call up his nurse you could call up the front desk and say do you guys have a referral source for sexual trauma victims or google it yourself support state support for sexual trauma victims or state

funded so you know how do i get help for sexual trauma there are clinicians in i know this i mean i i can do it as well but you guys can do it too but you need that ongoing support and the other thing that I was starting to say to you, Brian, is that, so I already mentioned that it's, you knew what you were getting, right? You, this is who she is. This is certainly not who she needs to stay. And it doesn't sound like she wants to stay this way and she wants to heal. But the truth is getting sex once or twice a week after almost 30 years of marriage and three kids is better than 90% of the guys that I know whose partners have not been sexually traumatized. Even having sex once a week is a worthy goal. I mean, that's like the goal that I try to set for couples who

are otherwise not working through a major trauma. Now, I get that the quality of those sexual experiences, like it's also, it's not only quantity, it's quality. And that there are all of these limits and limitations on your sexual expression that are beyond your control. So you're in, you're boxed in and I get that that leaves you feeling unfulfilled. And so you're holding both the unfulfillment and the love for your partner and the understanding and empathy you have for her, that this is not her fault, but that you're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place because you are also unfulfilled and you understand that she can't fulfill you because of her trauma, right?

So this is why it's really important to kind of, if you want to heal, to really start rebuilding the sex life with support, with ideally weekly support. So if I were to design this for you, you would be finding someone in your community who can do EMDR or EFT with you, working with them on a weekly basis, specifically around the triggers and the issues. You would be working with, I mean, I can work with you once a month, but that's not going to be enough. You would be working with someone once a week, ideally, who's also, and it probably won't

be the same person who's doing EMDR or EFT, but also a sex therapist who can guide you on a weekly basis. We could do it on a monthly basis, but I feel like there's so much embedded trauma in there. I would like to, if I could design it perfectly, I would have you meeting with someone on a weekly basis and really diving into this. And I would encourage you to get the book, The Courage to heal. I believe you have it. Have you read it? Yeah. I gave it to my daughter because she unfortunately also was abused as a child. She had one incident and I gave it to her with my workbook too. Yeah, I did read it. Okay. And I would encourage you, Brian, to maybe read it too, because there's steps in there for, she does a really good job guiding you through the rebuilding

of your sexual relationship. I remember her talking about the grounding. Yeah. The grounding and then building like one of the, an example is, and I'm pretty sure it's in her book where you make like a nest of pillows and get really, really cozy. So like you take sex off the table and then the first step is just to cuddle with full presence. So you just cuddle and snuggle and kiss, maybe without Frenching, with no other expectation, with no plans to do more, just that while staying fully present. And then maybe the next week you do that with trying French kissing. And then the next week you do that maybe with your shirt off. And each time you're practicing grounding yourself in your body, staying present, reminding yourself who

this person is that you're with, knowing that it's not going to go anywhere else and nothing else will be asked of you. And all you have to do is stay fully present in your body, in the room with your husband, who, you know, loves you and is not asking anything else of you. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah. What's the reaction to that? As you even hear those first three steps? It's kind of scary. Okay. And what is scary about it, you think? I don't know. I feel like I'm not going to be in my body. I think I'm just going to get angry and scared. Yeah. I think I can stay there. Even to kiss knowing it's not going anywhere else? Yeah, no, I can't kiss because that's one of the things that was done to me as a child

from my my dad's brother so what are the do you have a list because that might be a place to start to make a list of the things you know are red zones it sounds like is one of them anything around the tush absolutely not maybe oral sex on him for now i mean we'd like to move beyond that eventually, but that's down the line. Sorry to say, Brian, but we don't want to, you know, what you want, obviously you want to be sexually satisfied, but I'm guessing that what you want more than that is to have a partner who enjoys it and is fulfilled and isn't being re-traumatized, which is what would happen now if she forced her, if she forced herself to do it while really having major trauma during it, it would just be a re-traumatization.

I don't want that even though even like foreplay simple things of like cuddling her and kissing her and just slowly working through I would love for that to happen but that doesn't happen because she gets broke right so So I think if we can make a list of all the things that are really in the red zone, and then from there, once you have that list, make a list of things that could be in the yellow zone. And then like you, they might be a little iffy, but not totally traumatizing. Like these red zone things are not directly related to your trauma. And then make a column for the green zone, things you know for sure don't trigger you at all. And then once you have those three columns, then what we would want to do is create lots of safety, lots of grounding, and definitely build in the green stuff and start building in the yellow stuff.

And then when you are getting EMDR, other somatic experiencing support, you'll have that red zone list to start working with because it's through those things that you can not only, so let's say it's French kissing, right? You would be bringing that to your work with the, with the somatic experiencing person and processing that, reprocessing that so that it doesn't cause the same visceral automatic reaction in you. Because like, when you think about the concept intellectually of French kissing, that doesn't offend you, right? yeah physical act of it and the idea of doing it yourself because of what it reminds you of and because of what it brings up inside your body the reaction that your body has is why it bothers

you yeah like it's the very very innocent things that have changed my whole perspective on it where intimacy and sex is supposed to be something that I should get to enjoy. I should get to experience that. But I feel like it was taken to the point where any part of touch or affection, it's bothersome for me that I can't even do that with my kids. Like I can't hug them. I can't just say, Oh, you know, you've had a bad day. Come, let me hug you. i can't do that it feels very violating oh i'm so sorry it makes me want to beat the shit out of those people for polluting that for you it really does shame on them i'm so sorry i'm so sorry that that happened i'm so sorry that that was taken from you

i'm so sorry that you that your your sensual awareness and and rights were violated i think um going forward with this weekly therapy i i believe that that's i think a good course a good like obviously we you know we need to help the guidance because trying to do on our own they can't be done on their own no there's no way you can do this on your own even if you had been raped, even if like, as if it's not a big deal, but compared to what you've been through, if you'd just been raped once or sexually assaulted once, you still can't, I mean, you can't heal that on your own. This is one of those things, this infidelity, really any kind of trauma, but especially sexual trauma and infidelity are the two things that you just cannot, I'm

sorry, you can't heal on your own. And with what you've been through, there's no way in hell you can do this. Nobody could do it on their own. It's just impossible. Like I said, it's trying to hypnotize yourself. You can't because you're in it and you're having the reaction and you need to be held and supported through the healing of it. And in your case, through the somatic memories of it, like that's where your greatest, and that's actually a beautiful advantage you have and something that I just feel such grace in as I look at you and speak to you, that you have been through all of this and you understand where many victims would not, that it's wrong what happened to you and that you didn't deserve it. And that pleasure in theory, even if you can't

access it is good and deserved and our birthright and that you want it to be different. That is 70% of the battle. And you already have that. The fact that you want it to be different and that you want to feel it and that you understand that it's something good is a really beautiful thing. But what we want is to re help you reclaim your sex life on your terms. And while also your terms, right, getting clear on what your terms are. So what that green zone is, but also that green zone is going to be super narrow, right? And so what we want is to start widening it. And the only way we're going to widen it to those things that are in the yellow and maybe even eventually currently things that are in the red zone is if we can, if you can start to remove

the charge around it, the traumatic charge around it. And the only way you're going to do that is with the somatic experiencing support. I really hope that I can get access to this because I feel as though that's been the struggle all along is me not being able to get the help because it's been so expensive and, and it's not been easy. So I'm really hoping that I can actually do this where they do offer it for people that actually need it. But yeah, well, I will look as well and I I'll see what I can find and I'll stay in touch with you guys about that. But you look too, because you're there and see what government resources are. I mean, I don't know, call it. You could also, I don't know what the national insurance is,

but you could call up whatever your, I don't know how it works. Self-employed. We have no insurance. No, but doesn't, doesn't everyone who lives in Canada get insurance? There's a social insurance. Social insurance. That's what I'm talking about. So you call up the social insurance bureau or you look on their website under mental health services. And then you, this is the part that I can't do because I don't understand how the system

But if you go on there, you can usually look under mental health services and then under trauma, or even more specifically, if they have that sexual trauma, but even just trauma, what kind of services do they offer through the National Health Service there? That's what we're really looking for is what kind of clinical support for trauma you can get, and in particular, sexual trauma. My guess is since they offer it to the Inuit population for their sexual trauma, that they have sexual trauma resources available. And that's my understanding from the few people I know who have sought the same thing, but I'm no expert. And that if you, in the meantime, could make that three-column list I was talking about, we can meet a month from now and see where you are.

Hopefully you will have found someone and maybe even have had an appointment. And I would say if you can, at least for the next month, focus on self-pleasure, Brian, I know that's a poor substitute, but if you could just see what happens and this isn't going to be permanent, but to see what happens if you take that off the table, because what we want is for you to move Stacey into a space of like ease and flow and safety, sexual safety, right? So if for the next month you could take, just like put a pause button on the sex and really like twice a week or longer or more often, but at least twice a week for maybe 15 minutes, engage in all the green zone behaviors, not all at once every time, but I don't know how long the

list is, but to really fill that up with green zone, sensual, sexual, emotionally connective, whatever they are in that zone, really building on those and creating, because what we want is to create an experience where you can start to practice. Because my guess is even when you're having sex twice a week in a way that's tolerable for you, you're still not in the building, right? You're not there. So you're accidentally re-traumatizing. I wouldn't even say re-traumatizing because I know you don't technically experience it as traumatizing, but re-cementing the trauma accidentally, which I know is neither of your intentions. Certainly not yours, Brian. But if you're practicing something that is causing you to disassociate, you are reinforcing the disassociation.

Do you understand what I mean by disassociation, Brian? That means basically you are not in your body. So she's not even in it, which I know you feel, which is one of the reasons it's unfulfilling. Like she's like a zombie. Robot. Because her brain is somewhere else. That's the only way she can tolerate it. and it's not that she is even aware

that she's having sex with you, the man she loves, she's in her trauma, which is the last thing we want. So the irony is that is not helping her healing. So if you can focus on the green zone things for now and then start getting the support implemented, then we can start moving into the yellow zone and see we're not gonna be able to move far into the yellow zone or into the red zone

until you get some specific support for the trauma reactions, because those just will not go away on their own. But what we can do is build the practice of you staying in your body while physically engaging with Brian. And that we can do by staying in the green zone. So that's your homework, as well as to look into what resources are available for you. I will do that as well, to reread both of you, The Courage to Heal. And I will also look if there are some other books. I think there are some other books that may, because I think it's really would be helpful for you, Brian, to understand not only like the depth and breadth of how sexual trauma works. I know you understand it because you've lived it, but like to really understand it

with that lens and also what healing looks like. So that, because you're going to be one of the keys, honestly, to her healing. I mean, she has to do this on her own, a lot of it, but a huge part of it is going to be in the living laboratory of your relationship. So you're going to need to be her ally in healing in order for this to really move in the direction, which I think it totally can. And I've seen it a million times do if you both can do the work to make that happen. What I know you both want is a fulfilling, loving, present, sensual experience with each other. And you both absolutely deserve that. Sound good? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So we'll set you up for another session. And in the

meantime, you'll do your homework and I'll try to help to find some resources. Okay. Amazing. Thank you so much, Dr. Laura. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I went to the doctor Said I'm crazy for your love Wrote me a prescription But there's no cure for a cry