Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Beyond Sorrow: Nick Cannon Speaks about Life after His Son's Death

Episode Date: February 23, 2022

It’s time for Part 2 of Dr. Berman’s intimate chat with television superstar Nick Cannon. On Part 1 of this special interview, Dr. Berman and Nick talked about everything from monogamy to sex toys to how Nick’s fear of germs keeps him going back to his baby mamas instead of finding new partners. But, on this second installment, Nick and Dr. Berman tackle something much deeper and darker: The loss of Nick’s infant son, Zen, and how he is coping with that grief. Zen died of a brain tumor in December 2021 when he was just five months old. Since then, Nick has grappled with every parent’s worst nightmare: Losing a child. It’s a nightmare Dr. Berman knows well, as she also lost her son in 2021. On this episode you will learn: • How Nick and Zen’s mother have celebrated their son’s short life • How you can stay connected to lost loved ones even after they are gone • How you can present with grief without being overwhelmed by the waves of sadness and anger • Why grief is such an important process that has so much to teach us about love and life • How you can become better resourced to deal with your own grief You can always reach out to Dr. Laura Berman on her social media pages or by emailing [e-mail] with any questions or comments. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm Dr. Laura Berman, a sex and relationship therapist. And for the past three decades, I've been helping people learn how to love and be loved better. That's what we're doing here on The Language of Love, where I get to answer calls and emails from people just like you. My goal with The Language of Love is to help you discover more meaningful emotional and physical intimacy, and to help you build more awareness of how precious and sacred your sexuality really is. Be sure to email me or reach out with your very own love-sex relationship

questions, and I might just answer them live on the air. It's time we all become fluent in the language of love. Our guest today needs no introduction, really. If you don't know Nick canon you've been living under a rock right nick pretty much for a few decades the only person that i think is a little busier or i shouldn't even say a little busier as busy as you through the years that i've had an up close and personal look at their crazy life is steve harvey yeah like how many shows are you hosting filming taping right now it's so many it's at least a half a dozen at least because there's always the ones that are in development which actually take more work than the ones that are actually on like once they're going yeah you just show up and you're used to it so

a bulk of my work happens for the stuff that you haven't seen the preparation for films and Steve Harvey is a mentor of mine and we've we talk often he's actually he's just turned 65 so he's actually he's chilling right now yeah for me I feel like I'm in the zeitgeist I'm just revving up and all those opportunities so like like steve doesn't like doing movies anymore he's realized like i don't want to do movies he's kind of like content with like i'm making my bulk of my business and television like to me i still have this entrepreneurial spirit of like trying to figure out this new age uh media yeah it's a whole new world i have a few podcasts i produce a few podcasts i have digital shows i have television shows films so and i feel like i've always been

that way. But I think that also probably has a lot to do with, you know, when dealing with the work that needs to be done within the constant running, the constant drive. Nick, I'm so proud of you for saying that, because that's really where what I see from where I said, first of all, let me just say that, like, I knew who you were before I met you. And by the way, I met Nick in person when the first time I came on your show on the Nick Cannon show, which just launched. Yeah. This is first season, still season one. And it's doing really well. And I wasn't sure what to expect because the only way, you know, the only thing I had seen you on is, I guess, The Masked Singer, which my husband is a big fan of. And I remember when you because, you know, Mariah is the queen. I remembered when you married Mariah and I knew you had two kids, but I didn't know a lot about your story. Right. And then your producer of your show, who I used to work with at Oprah, Katie Davis, called me up and said, hey, you want to come on the show? So I didn't know what to expect. And I just have to say that you show this on your talk show, but you haven't really in the other places I've seen you.

You haven't shown how like this man's heart, guys, is so sweet. Not that I expected you to be an asshole. I thought you'd be nice and cool and fun and whatever. And I think that's part of your appeal. Probably why you have so many baby mamas, too, is that you're cute and charming and funny. But you also have this very like the sweetness about you. Yeah, I get that a lot. And I think that's probably to my detriment too, because I do, I feel intensively. You said it, I have a big heart, but it's like I wear it on my sleeve. And to be able to, like, I've learned to manage it over the years, but because I know I'm sensitive in spaces, then I kind of keep myself, I put these guards up that kind of allow me not to have to feel.

Like walls. Yes. I feel really attached to you. Likewise. And but I can see how I'm not going to be your one of your baby mamas and I'm happily married, but I can see how you would be kind of irresistible. I feel like over the years I've learned how to like I no longer want to play the game because I used to be up for the chase and I would use my so-called charm to kind of, you know, for not evil, but for play. Yeah, to devour and conquer. And as I'm getting a little older and hopefully more mature, I'm realizing that that's just creating more and more energy and actually covering up a lot of stuff that, you know, especially, I mean, my priority now and understanding that I have to be the best father I can be. So I got to do some work. So that's what I struggle with. I struggle with loving too hard and trying to please and trying to use my big heart with these great relationships that I've created. And a lot of times, you know, there's some desires that I'm like, oh, I can help you with that or I can make that happen.

And I've realized now I also call it there's a mixture of like my heart also mixed in with the I call it the the access to excess, because there's nothing wrong with living an abundant life. But when you have an abundance of an abundance, then it becomes like, all right, what am I supposed to do with this? How do I organize all of this? How do I keep this? You know, they say too much of anything is just like not enough. It's a lot. Yeah. I mean, it's too much to handle. Yeah. So I think having the access to anything excessively, I mean, that I think that a lot of that is kind of where some of including booty. Yes, exactly. So that and I've been that way because I used to be like, oh, it was all about quantity. It was all about how many it was that, you know, I think as a young man, you think like, oh, the the more women I have, the bigger the ego. Well, that's how you were raised in our society, guys, especially.

And I think that's backed me into a corner because that's kind of become my like, that's the MO, like, oh, he's a ladies' man. Well, that's what I thought when I met you, that you'd be, not that you'd come on to me, I didn't expect that, and you didn't, but I expected kind of a player energy, just like someone low-key, and you don't, which is like, I'm sure one of the secrets to your player success back in the day. Never let them see you coming, doc. Yeah, yeah. I want to get, you've sort of alluded to this, the ways in which you've used, and this isn't intentional, obviously. I mean, you have all of these amazing opportunities. Of course, you're going to take advantage of them and you're so good at what you do. But I'm so honored that you took the time to do this because every day you have a million different projects and performances and just watching you do your show. and we're going to talk about this you know later on but like given even just what you've been through lately with the loss you've experienced just to be like having to be on and performing and moving and then going on to the next thing and the next thing that is sort of a way not to every time I see you I say have you rested yet have you taken any time off yet because once you

do, that's when it all will. Yeah. And that's interesting because I've kind of built up a lot of these mantras and these cute little sayings that over the years that actually do help me keep going. Like, you know, I'm a shark. I got to keep swimming. You know what I mean? I got to keep cooking while the pot is hot or there's no time to rest. I sleep when I'm dead. You're graced for the race. That's one of my favorites. Yeah. But I believe them. You know what I mean? And I think so much so that i've even like physically manifested it that where i actually don't like this still like i'm sitting with you right now i just came from working out for two hours and waking up this morning was pretty difficult but knowing that i had to get out of bed and i

was going to be able to get through these aches and pains and working out you know and you know i deal with inflammation and lupus and things like that so it's interesting that's like physically has been manifested into my body that I feel my best when I'm super active. When I'm dormant and sitting, I'm in pain. I can't. I got it. I'm restless. But part of the reason for that is because that makes total sense to me, first of all. And yes, I mean, how long ago were you diagnosed with lupus? 2012 is the 10th year. So 10th year. And you have it totally. Have you had sort of a super under control? You know what I mean? I've probably done every diet known to man. And I kind of, I used to be on like 33 pills a day.

Now I'm down to two and then a few multivitamins and stuff. But, you know, probably, you know, small dose of prednisone and then my kidney medicine. But lupus is an inflammatory disease. And so brought on by stress. Yes. And so what you have done is figured out, which is so brilliant, you know, using working out and positive thoughts and mind body meditation. Right. You've really slowed down the inflammation. But the tricky part, I'm just going to say this because, you know, I can't shut up about this, is that the reason when you stop or when you aren't busy that you're in pain is because pain is coming up for you to release.

And so the natural inclination, and I learned this, you know, I knew this clinically, but I learned it personally the hard way. I've shared this with you before, I think, that our inclination is the way to successfully manage emotional loss or pain is to manage it. B12 to help support immune function and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight our new double espresso with ginseng extract whatever lies ahead don't change your morning let your morning change you discover coffee plus on espresso.com I mean this is what I thought and I think you probably think this that to continue my work and my life successfully where I'm not breaking down where I'm not losing my shit And I did that when I had my biggest loss before losing my son, which was my mom. I was extremely connected to. And I did what you were doing. I was shooting a show for Oprah on Oprah Winfrey Network. I had a radio show. I had all this stuff going on. And I was doing the same thing you're doing until within a year, I had breast cancer in the same breast she had it in. And it forced me to stop my life.

And then when I stopped my life, all the pain came up of the loss and the grief. And that's when I finally learned that that pain that we run from, once we're just willing to sit with it for a minute and notice the emotional source of it and release the emotions in the moment, the pain alleviates. Can I ask a question, though? Yes. because i hear this quite a bit like oh you got you know and all those things like you got to feel in order to heal yeah you got to take time is pause yeah positivity yeah in doing that what is the resolution what am i seeking because by when i feel my best is when i'm going when i stop i don't like that yeah because that's when it all catches up with you but even so is there a time

Like when once I'm supposed to sit still, what am I am I supposed to sit and cry for three days? No, no, no. It's not three days. We're talking 15 minutes at a time. And I can walk you through and send you some videos. But basically, and this is what I've learned and really been honing in order to keep functioning in the world after this horrific loss of my son, is that the way that I've managed it is that every single day, unless it's really coming up for me. But like, for instance, right now, it's not at all for me. I feel fine. And my inclination would be to keep feeling fine. But the problem is that my body is storing some of that pain that I'm not willing to look at. So if I give myself just 15 minutes and I will show you how to do this and maybe we'll do it today if we have if I just don't want to keep you too long. But you ground yourself in your body. You get really, really quiet.

You could even do it as part of meditation. You just scan your body and you notice sensations and you'll notice where the pain is. And then you literally put all of your conscious attention on those pain points, which is the opposite of what we normally want to do. And you don't try to explain them or make them go away. You are fully present with them because those pain points are your grief points. That's your body expressing the emotional pain that you aren't allowing out. Emotions are emotions, energy in motion, and they need to come out. Right, right.

So it's like an emotional poop, basically. So you scan your body, you kind of go into those feelings, and all you have to do literally is put all of your conscious awareness on those sensations and sit with them and be curious about them and say to yourself, like, what do you want? What do you need? And then tears will come or you'll want to beat the shit out of a pillow or you'll want to scream or something. So can I challenge you on this just briefly? Because I consider myself someone who is emotionally intelligent. Yes, I think you are. And I say that to say that I pay so close attention to my emotions and I purposely control my emotions. Being an actor. Yes. You know what

I mean, I can cry if I wanted to. I could cry on the spot right now and make you be like, oh, I love you. Yeah. Or I could hold it all in. Yes. I can smile and be the funniest guy or I can be really mean and give you like I've done that over. I've hopefully mastered that craft of controlling my emotions and offering up, however, and even in being a father, helping children manage their emotions is something I've even become even more in tune because they're. not in control of their emotions now so I'm like all right let's breathe like I do breathing exercises with my kids express yourself tell me why you're frustrated yeah tell me what like I do all of these things so I really studied this but so much so that in a moment like that to where I almost feel I innately do that in my practices and you know I study and I read yeah even you know your books have shown me certain things to to where I use it as even as a sexual power you

know what i mean i i love being aligned and in tune with certain energies that oh this energy matches mine i can release better with this female i can have a discussion better with this like so i've kind of even i really manage my emotions in a way to where if i feel happy if the goal is to feel joyous why do extra work yeah if i feel like i'm already and again this could be me just saying because i know i'm sitting in therapy but i got it all under control i'm not saying that no i know what you're saying like why do i want to pick at this why do i want to poop if i'm not yeah if you're not if your tummy's not hurt and you're not backed up and it's also hard to gin up the energy to want to do that when you want to feel good and under normal circumstances i would say

to you yeah like go on with your bad self but when a huge loss happens right or a huge trauma happens your old part of the reason I think that these things happen with us. And it's not to say that God is punishing us or this, but I don't mean that at all, but it's like an invitation because our old coping skills aren't going to work as well when something is that big. And so I guess the main thing I'm thinking about with you is not your overall run of the mill emotional health, But given the loss of your son, and I saw you within 48 hours or something of when you lost your son, and I saw the pain in your eyes, and you were barreling through, and you needed to because you have a lot of people depending on you. And still, and still. Right.

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every space but the one thing that I that keeps me up at night the one thing that I'm feeling the one thing you probably even saw my eyes and this is applied to Zen's journey as well as every other journey that I'm a part of is the guilt there's this heavy heavy guilt that I've accepted because I've learned that guilt isn't necessarily a bad thing there's a difference between guilt and shame And I have no shame, but I do have a lot of guilt with the fact of the way even sometimes the guilt of that. I control my emotions so much that I watch others emote around me and I'm like, I don't feel what they're feeling. And I'm guilty that I'm not emoting the same way that they're emoting. I'm guilty that everyone's like, oh, you must be so devastated. Take time.

So now I'm like, I've processed it. People grieve differently and I still deal with it. But I feel guilty that I didn't get to spend time like I really wanted to with Zen, that I have other children, even in a similar age that is like, OK, I'm guilty that I'm not there present every day. I'm guilty that the mothers of my children yearn for more and I can only give so much. I'm guilty that I can't dedicate time to, you know, my immediate family when it comes to my own parents and brothers. And, you know, so like the only thing that I would say that I walk around with a backpack full of guilt that but I think, again, that taps into having a big heart and loving and caring and wanting to do for others. And the fact that the reason that keeps me going in the drive is that the guilt is behind me as I'm running. Yeah. You don't have to. So I'm carrying it with me. But I feel like it's part of the journey because at least I know the harder that I work, then it makes the guilt easier to deal with because it's like I'm working on. I don't feel if I feel like I'm providing for others. OK, so you're providing. You know what I mean?

So at least you're providing. Like that's in my mind. I'm like, I'm working. The word working, actually, everyone understands working. Like where I feel the guiltiest is if I am not working and I'm spending time with a young lady or even if it's with myself or even, and I'm like, man, I got a house full of kids.

I could be, you know. So there you have it. My conversation got pretty deep and detailed. with Nick. And I got to say, whatever your story is about or judgments you may have about the choices he's made or the ways that he handles his love life or his attitude toward monogamy or polyamory or the choices he's made, the one thing I can tell you, having spent a lot of time with him is that he is a very pure-hearted individual. He loves really deeply. He feels really deeply. He tries to be as honest as he possibly can be. And I think his greatest struggle is probably

managing when he disappoints people. And we set up his life in a way where he often disappoints people. We all do that. We all sort of set our lives up consciously and unconsciously in a way to challenge our soul's growth. And I do that. You do that. We all do that. And I think Nick is doing that, too. But I can tell you that he is a very soulful person. He feels deeply. He loves deeply. He does not want to be defined. And I can respect that. And I hope that this opened your mind to maybe thinking about things in your own life differently. Obviously, our interviews, especially the last one, created a lot of controversy, which neither one of us, we were just so into the conversation, we weren't thinking about how much was being revealed. But I

think it also opens a conversation. And one of the things that I'm most proud of him about is how open he is about his own imperfections and that as he calls himself I'm a work in progress just like the rest of us are and my hope is that if Nick can you know who's this big hip-hop television personality and that so many people look up to and he has such a huge personality and he's so successful that if he can be so beautifully open and authentic and vulnerable by admitting his growth edges and that he's not perfect and that he's a work in progress and that he is exploring mental health and therapy if he can do that then hopefully it will normalize it for lots of other people who wouldn't necessarily be open to being so vulnerable or to admit to themselves or anyone

else that they're less than perfect because lord knows every single one of us is perfectly imperfect Including Nick Cannon and including me and including you. But every single one of us is unbelievably loved. So I wish you beautiful love, beautiful life, and I'll see you next time on the Language of Love. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaya, and I live in Ice Cove.

I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. And here's the Mona Lisa. Gazing to Mona's eyes in perfect health with no undiagnosed problems

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