Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Can Love Survive the Shadows of the Past?

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

Can love truly heal the wounds of the past? It’s a question many of us ask ourselves when past traumas creep into our relationships, casting long shadows over the love we’re trying to build. For Brian and Stacey, one of the amazing couples who come on the show to get support, this question isn’t just philosophical—it’s a daily reality. How do you rebuild trust when intimacy feels like a minefield? How do you show affection when touch triggers painful memories? And can love, no matter how strong, truly heal the wounds of the past? In this Language of Love Session, we dive deeper into the emotional rollercoaster of Brian and Stacey’s relationship. Will they find a way to bridge the growing distance between them, or will past traumas continue to pull them apart? If you’ve been following their journey, you know this is a story filled with raw emotion, vulnerability, and the struggle to heal. If you’re new, buckle up—this is a journey you won’t want to miss. And if you would like to come on the show to get some support, make sure to email us at [e-mail] Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode: How past sexual trauma can distort feelings of love and connection Why physical affection can feel both comforting and threatening The double bind of wanting closeness but fearing intimacy How to create non-sexual physical touch that fosters connection The importance of tuning into your partner’s emotional needs Practical tools for building warmth and trust in a relationship How to navigate the Drama Triangle without blaming each other The power of pausing and shifting energy during conflicts Why avoiding each other can feel safer—but isn’t the answer Check out my free quiz and 7 Days to Better Sex to start improving intimacy today. Healing and connection are journeys best taken with the right tools. For trauma recovery, tools like EMDR and the Drama Triangle can be incredibly helpful.  Got questions or stories to share? Email me at [e-mail]—and don’t forget to share this episode, because love is a journey we take together. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman, and for the last 30 years, I've been helping people learn to love and be loved better. Welcome to the Language of Love Sessions. This is where I get to work with you one-on-one, on air. You, my listeners, my goal in these sessions is to empower you to enjoy better relationships, both with others and with yourself, and to help you embrace how precious and sacred your body, your love life, and your sexuality really is. It's time we all become fluent in the language of love. Brian and Stacey, welcome back.

Hola. Hi, how's it going? Things are progressing slowly, but surely. Good news that we did not have sex. Yes, we did not have sex. We listened to you. I know. Who knew that that would be the good news, right? That you did not. But it was because that's what I asked of you. Yeah. Yeah. We follow some things.

Yeah. I'm still struggling with the fact of when you're telling us not to do that, I almost feel that that's tied into me feeling loved in some sort of way. I mean, mind you, yes, that is coming from my past. But I feel that coldness from him and the distance from him. And it's almost as though I have to be performing or doing something in order for me to feel that closeness with him. And I feel somehow that's wrong. What's wrong? That he's cold or that you have to perform? yeah that me thinking that in my head that you know I should be loved regardless and you know and I should be thinking that you know he loves me for me and he loves me for all the other things besides that but I think in the background for me is that fear of maybe that's all that it was or or that's all you or that's all your value ever was because when you grow up being sexually you know molested assaulted abused to the extent that you were that was you know it got so mixed up

for you in particular with affection attention connection so of course as a little girl you're going to grow up and you probably got constant feedback of how beautiful you were and how desirable you were and so in your mind that's where your value lies in the adult woman's mind that you are you know intellectually that's not true but there's this little one in you that believes that so I think that's one piece of this the other piece of it and we're going to check in with Brian about this in a second is that it is also true that the majority of men especially men who live a lot in their masculine energy sexually which Brian does their sense not intentionally, not on purpose, not in any punishing way, their sense of emotional connection

is often inspired through the physical act of sexual intimacy. So when they don't have the sexual intimacy, very often without even meaning to, they become a little emotionally withdrawn Because it would be, you know, the equivalent of if he weren't available for talking about your day or listening to your feelings or spending quality time with you, the things that maybe make you feel close to him. If that if I said to you both, OK, that's not allowed anymore, you would kind of not feel it as much. Right. You know what I mean? And maybe then maybe that's what it is, because I feel as though because, you know, we're not supposed to be doing any of that. I think Brian avoids me.

And while there's one more thing, we're going to get to that in a second. There's one more piece to this puzzle, which is a big puzzle. It's three pieces. It's not too big. So, I mean, there's a million other smaller ones, but these are the three we're focusing on. You, in another couple, perhaps, who had also had sexual trauma, for whom sex was off the table, for whom the male, you know, wasn't feeling that emotional closeness, there are ways to create for both of you some physical affection, closeness, connection that would make you feel more close and more connected. we haven't been able to find a lot of those i think we got to kissing you on the forehead right or maybe when you initiate some physical affection but because for you physical affection was often

a guy's innocent physical affection was a manipulation that many of your abusers used as an entry point and would take it further that for you has been tied up with the trauma Right. So you can't you haven't really been able to receive that kind of affection, which would alleviate some of this disconnection where we'd be able to access that. So that's the deck we're dealing with. Now, let's look at you, Brian, what she was just saying. Stacey was saying that to a certain extent, not only are all these things true, you're both nodding along. And is it also true, you check in with us, that there is a part of you that has been avoiding her so that, I don't know what you're thinking, Stacey, so that he doesn't want to have sex with you, so he doesn't try to? What's your story? Wait, you're asking.

Stacey, let's get really clear on what the story is, and then we'll check it out. So I feel as though he's avoiding me because it may be really difficult for him. Because he doesn't know how to maneuver. I think because of the coldness that I'm feeling, I think then we start butting heads. We start getting. All right. So it sounds like you're saying now tell me what you mean by cold. What does coldness in his behavior look like?

That he's always busy. That he's always on his phone. That he's always distracted. I don't know. He doesn't care what I'm doing. It's just very cold. It's almost like we're just like passing. Okay.

So you aren't spending a lot of quality time together or tuning into each other. All right. So, Brian, is there a first of all, would you agree with what she's saying? I mean, obviously, maybe not always, but is there has there been a trend of distraction and busyness where you aren't really spending quality time attuning to each other? And is there a way in which you've been avoiding that? um there's on a daily i'm trying to check up with her but i used to actually before making more of a habit of doing on the daily like first thing in the morning hey babe how are you like just kind of run down like how's our morning but lately it's just my mind is in all these different places i'm i'm trying to listen to things and like we're trying to run the business and now i'm also still trying to make a mind of it to listen to stuff to do the business but then also take you know 15 20 minutes of my drive to listen to conscious loving as well so like i'm trying to listen everywhere so sometimes it's getting now unfortunately stacy's

getting left in the um the background a little bit of my things to do um and flowers every two weeks or so but we're not doing dates lately like it's it's kind of it's a little bit of a mess however and i do notice that i don't purposely try to be cold to her but i do notice that without my love language of like hugging and holding and you know kiss on the cheek or like even like in a cute way like grabbing her bum that doesn't leave lead to something else when that's not happening and i'm not doing that i do feel there's less connection and then when that less connection happens i do feel that not being close i feel stacy's a little harder on the nitpicking and nagging a little bit more and i feel the coldness in her and then it just it's about the brew right

there's a but there's this argument it's about to happen so i can i can definitely feel that with the lack of physical touch from me giving her not as loving as caring like that i do feel it and i'm not purposely i'm purposely actually not trying to touch her because i don't want to i don't want to invade her space at this moment until she until we uncover this and get better until i feel bad i feel guilty i feel like to touch her right now i'm i'm almost feeling like i'm molesting her raping her without her consent so i'm just trying to like come back of that and not do that because i can imagine what she's going through in her mind so i'm just trying to be more mindful of that but then that leads us to be cold and further apart and it really sucks i can't like

love my life my wife i want to love how i want to love her with my love language so it's really and then it's presenting this whole cycle presents this whole coldness thing too so what do you think about what he just said i think that's good awareness on his part i do feel that sometimes Brian he gets stuck and it's that same sort of tape playing even though he I don't know I'm trying to be really nice and say this properly um like I think sometimes he goes into the victimhood because there will be times during the week that I hear him almost and I don't know could be because we're in that cold state so then things will come out as though you know you don't realize how I'm suffering which is Brian he's suffering but he doesn't realize it's not easy for me I mean

you mean suffering from the lack of physical affection I guess yeah yeah and it almost feels like I'm supposed to turn on this switch or just say okay I'm done now I can change and I can't do that it's just not coming out for me yeah I don't hear him for whatever it's worth I'm not saying he doesn't say that elsewhere or at other times but what I heard here was like I'm you know I'm I am really taking to heart what we've talked about and the kind of trauma she's felt I'm trying not to re-inflict that trauma and it's hard for me and both things can be true but it's also true, Stacey, that to a certain extent, and this isn't, I'm not blaming you here. This is just your trauma talking, but you are creating a kind of double bind because on the one hand, you're very

much on board with, you know, I don't want to push through my resistance to holding hands or cuddling or kissing because that feels right now like a violation. And so I'm not willing to do that and he's honoring that and at the same time you're like and when you don't kiss or cuddle or whatever I don't feel close to you right so like what could he be doing I mean certainly putting the phone down and maybe even spending 30 minutes you know after the kids are asleep or when you're alone together just listening to some music and off technology and hanging out and talking about your day, like that could be one thing that you could do that would, you know, be more at least tuning into each other. Even if you did that for 15

minutes once a day, that would be probably more than you're getting now. What can he do to create more warmth that is on the table? So the thing that happened, I want to say Tuesday or Wednesday? No, Wednesday. Yeah. I that my my hip got stuck somehow while playing after playing a sport. And normally, Brian kind of helps me out. He massages the little kink. And we were watching a show together and he did that. And then he did it again when I was going to bed because I was still stuck and for the first time I didn't tense up because normally my butt area tenses up so tight that it actually it hurts and I'm assuming that's where stuff happened and the trauma stuck somewhere there but for the first time it didn't happen and I was fine with it and

And I guess it's because the expectation of sex is off the table, right? So it's genuinely, yeah. And I think I asked for it too. So genuinely, he was just giving me a massage to help me. So I think that shows sort of warmth and love and, you know. So was it warmth and love because you were hurting and asked for help and he physically touched you in a way that felt non-threatening and was also helpful? and or is it that therapeutic touch, let's call it, not sensual touch, but therapeutic touch in

the form of a targeted massage or a back massage or whatever might be on the table as a form of non-sexual physical connection? No, I think the first one. I think it's because I asked for help and he helped and I wasn't taken advantage of because I asked for help so that is not now going to be something that we can other than so we can't put that in the toolbox of creating the warmth building toolbox we could we could so what would we put in the warmth building toolbox specifically therapeutic massage yeah we could put therapeutic massage that you ask for or that he offers or either either okay and what about you giving him a massage does that ever happen and no he laughs no i don't know what it is i don't know whether it's because you know unless

you're hurt i won't do that and i don't know whether it's because i feel that doctor i'm always hurt hurting all the time invading of personal space like i won't even do that for my kids like after a certain age i stopped doing that unless well what if he at what if you know one of your activities was to spend 15 minutes giving each other a back and hip only therapeutic massage sure okay so he likes that idea right brian i like you dr laura and with the understanding that this is not intended to be an arousing thing essential thing or lead anywhere further that might be hard no i mean he might get around it's possible he will he will get around the other night so you know that's okay it's okay if he gets aroused as long as there isn't that

expectation right yeah okay so we have another thing to put into so I would say try to do that you know even if it's just 30 minutes 15 minutes on each of you guys try to do that at least once a week for a while and try to spend at least 15 to 30 minutes just um you know being together taking a walk listening to some music talking about your day but like really um invest that time and it doesn't have to be all at once it can be five minutes throughout the day if you've got a really busy day and you don't have 30 minutes to 15 to 30 minutes to share to spare but we obviously like many uh get caught in the triangle one of the toughest things i i i i struggle personally is um pausing and just taking a moment to take a step out take a step back and just come

back to the conversation i do see though at that kind of a practice it being really good because when we pause when we go play sports it's like after that two hours of sports it's like nothing happened we weren't in an argument before so whether it's pickleball or volleyball whatever like after that we're super happy together like we just kind of like oh you know sorry like hey let's just be loving together and it's really and sports ended up being a really good thing for us that's that pause away from it right well there's there's yeah she's nodding there's two things about that one you've created a pause but two you've created a shift move remember when we talked about the shifts because it's not necessarily enough to create a pause yeah you

have to create a pause and a shift so what what you're using as a shift is physical activity and dopamine right so you're you know everyone feels better after they exercise yeah yeah so um so you shift with that you're moving your body which shifts your energy you're getting the neurochemicals that exercise brings and you're getting the pause yeah the interesting thing that happens is when we're about to go in to go play say volleyball for example stacy like now don't act like a jerk inside volleyball right now like is this how you're going to be i'm like no i'm not going to be like that i'm not going to be like a jerk and so and then consciously and i don't be like a jerk and we see each other there and africa is like smiling and like happy and holding hands on the

way to you know out of the place so you you leave it you leave it in the locker room yeah yeah but it works i think that might not get to the root of the problem but that works at that moment to be like you know what what are we doing like we're just fighting to be right yes well that's good that you're noticing that even if you notice it later and it's a that's a great strategy that you found and you find the same thing stacy as a as a shift the sport yeah i do i almost feel like i need it yeah i need it because i'm always trying to um you know sort out arguments and battles between the kids and the kids and rob and amongst them i mean yes brian and it's hard like sometimes i just need to just put it over there and just have fun yeah i think we all need

that um and it's part of how you fill you know i i talk to people a lot about an energy you know really avoiding that energy deficit. Because what happens is if you're going about your day expending energy on things that don't feel good, that don't fill you up, that feel stressful or upsetting or difficult, those are all energy deficits. And we have to replenish the energy stores or else eventually we're operating in a major, we're operating in the red, you know? So there's some things that you can't change, right? So if someone's driving, like here in LA, someone has to drive to work every day in horrible rush hour traffic, that's becoming a regular energy deficit. And then going to a job they hate, then they're losing even more energy, right? So, you know, they could change jobs, which would be tremendous, you know, and that's advisable to do something that really lights you up if you can. But there are also ways to add energy in, like go play a sport, go be with friends, go do something on a regular basis that replenishes the energy and or change the way in which you're doing it. So maybe you're in rush hour traffic, but you're listening to music you love or you're catching up with friends or you're listening to a podcast and you're making the drive more enjoyable.

So it's both and it's both seeking ways to make those things you can't avoid less of a drain and more alive for you and seeking opportunities to do things like the sports are for you to recharge. charge yeah i think that's really important we did a tough uh argument last week i'm not sure if it was sunday or monday but it was a hard one and it was so stupid so simple so meaningless i don't even remember that we were like at each other's throats but then i sent a text afterwards and it could have come from you first but at this time it did come from me i sent a text to stacy just saying all right my bad i apologize it's on me um you know i was just being selfish it was about the shorts upstairs oh yeah yeah something so stupid i'm downstairs here working in the basement getting ready for a workout she's gonna work out with me i'm gonna come downstairs let's

do a workout before we have to go blah blah blah i said uh and she goes okay well i'm dying my hair i've got uh you know i don't want to get this stuff oh i just got something in my eye so it's really burning um i said just grab my shorts when you're coming down your way down because two levels up just bring it down she was already up there but i didn't hear the sympathy that she was looking for and I did not give her any empathy at all whatsoever

because she said she got something in her eye she had no time you didn't acknowledge that I did acknowledge that you did your best for what you needed yeah she told me

essentially go get the shorts yourself and I was like wait but you're right there they're like literally like two feet away from you we argue like that back and forth

that wasn't the point yeah wasn't the point so I got that afterwards that that wasn't the point because I didn't you know show enough empathy and sympathy

yeah and I was you know I could have just went up and got the shorts myself. However, I'm sure Stacey would have got them for me if I showed a little more empathy. Yeah. If you just said, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. You guys, are you okay? Do you need help? BTW, will you bring my shorts down while you come? These are things we learn, but it's also the story, right? The story you may have been carrying around Stacey that he's only in his

own little world and thinking about himself because if you really felt like he was attuned to you and living in empathy for you that wouldn't have set you off you would have just seen it as a one-off thing but because it confirmed it was evidence of a belief you already have then you now. Yeah. Hey, it's Dr. Laura Berman. I've been a sex, love and relationship therapist for over 30 years. And the main question I always get asked is how the heck do we spice it up in a long-term monogamous relationship? Well, if you want to take your love life, your sex life to the next level, whether you're in a relationship or not, check out my free course on quantum sex. It's going to teach you how to take your sexual response to the next level capable of full body orgasms, how to use sex magic to manifest your dreams, and how to connect on an even deeper level sexually with your partner.

Just go to drlauraberman.com and you'll find it right there on the homepage, the Quantum Sex free course. Check it out and let me know what you think. yeah and the same with your belief that you have a me same thing is what what's his belief what's my belief your belief is that I control everything it's my way or the highway and oh yeah he has said that he doesn't have a say and it's just me and it's it's not like that but I think that's just how he sees it yeah so when you act a little assertive or directive or whatever then he wants to rebel against that because his story is you won't let him have power yeah and have a say yeah yeah yeah good now what is happening with the therapy because we really want you to

get into the somatics okay so i called and they were able to bump me in but you're not going to get this um the consult first consult to see whether we're a good fit is not till july 14th oh my gosh and then after that it's another three months or something like that to even get an appointment with her is that because it's free health care is that why i think so yeah and that's being bumped in wow yeah she she messaged me the next day because i told her the situation and then And she messaged me the next day and she said, OK, can we book you in for a consult? And I'm thinking, OK, it's going to be soon. No, it's till July, July 14th.

I was going to say, like, hopefully before then we just make enough money where we can actually pay for stuff. Like by the time that happens, like, come on. Or let's hope. But in the meantime, I would also maybe call back and say, what are the chances that I'd be get on the list for cancellations on myself available? because sometimes they, and that term really works well, what are the chances? Okay, I'll do that. So it sounds like you said,

when you said, Stacey, in the beginning of our conversation that you feel like we're making some progress, one of the things you said is because you followed the rules and didn't have sex as you weren't supposed to, only because, and this is for folks that are just tuning in, you can hear our prior episodes, but the reason that I didn't want you to have sex

is because you were still disassociating during sex and you and it wasn't it was just embedding you weren't in your power it was embedding more trauma and I think you're seeing now not having sex the ways in which not only do you want it which is good in a way you know physically it sounds like but also emotionally but that also it's really kind of wrapped up which by the way it is for most of us, wrapped up with your sense of value, right? And we want to be able to separate those. But what else did you mean, if anything, when you said things have been improved? Initially, I felt very frustrated because things take time to progress. But I just realized no one's going to progress the same way as I would. And whatever little that

we do see from the usual way of being is still progress. And what I am seeing is that Brian is actually taking that time to listen to what I'm saying when I say, okay, we got to do the homework that we were given by taking that pause, looking at where it feel where we feel it what's the story we're making up and what do we want those are the bottom lines of everything so that we can just stop arguing because I can't be right I just want what's best for us as a union and it it's a real struggle at times it's it's such a struggle I just almost it's like I just want to say I'm done like I'm out I'm going to take a walk and I'm not sure i'm coming back because maybe you need that time to think about what i said instead of taking it

to mean it's my way or the highway i'm seeing things and i just need you to see the things the way you need to see them but understand the premise of what we're supposed to do is we're supposed to see what is the story we are telling ourselves about it and what do we want yeah that's really it so you're saying that he thinks you're being controlling when you say can we do those steps or he think or his story is that you're being controlling i think it's his story but what happens is like so some so there'll be a like an upset that occurs or something we don't agree upon which we're not supposed to agree on everything no and yeah somewhere along the line it'll get heated or it'll it'll go into something else that has

nothing to do with the situation itself and then I will somehow notice and say okay what is it that we're really trying to do here like what's going on here and I'm trying to go back to this the homework whereas he's already on a different level and he can't see that right And so do you ever say, so in those situations, because remember what I've said, I think I've said this to you before, when you are on the triangle, it's really hard to get off it enough sometimes even to follow the steps to get off the triangle, which is, as you're saying, what am I feeling? What's the story underneath or behind what I'm feeling and what do I want, right? So when he or and this is true for both of you, I would say the same thing to you, Brian, when Stacey because you're both get stuck, everyone gets stuck, is to say, like, can you tell me just like what you're feeling and the story you have?

No, we're supposed to. This is when we why aren't you? But like a request, like, can you or even owning it yourself saying I'm feeling right now some tightness in my stomach and chest would you try that in the first like the he's after but he he's already he just right right right so you could that was so i'll get to that in a second but just to finish this you say would you be willing to tell me what you're feeling right now and what the story is don't even get to what you want like what what are you feeling right now what's the story behind it now he might or you might be too pissed off at this point or too stuck or whatever

so then you say you own it okay you're never saying you're on the triangle because you're on the triangle too right so you say I'm feeling like we're on the triangle right now I'm voting for just a little break I'm gonna go off and take a walk or take some breaths or take a bath or whatever workout and think about what I'm feeling the story behind it and what I want I'm hoping you're willing to do that too and you model it and you go off and don't stay in the intractable but what do you want but i'm not doing that but you know like because then you are it is just going to escalate she initially for like two weeks ago after we talked to you last she was pretty much calling me out on the triangle very often oh you know where you are on the triangle you're on

the victim again where's brian on the triangle he's a victim again i'm just like can we can i would you say and where are you yeah i was like anger blame and people being the victim guess he's a villainous sister i was trying to figure it out but i forgot the other piece of the triangle mine was a straight line hers is a triangle you catch up brian you gotta lose it back gosh i was like what what what so i just pause that's fine too pause pause as much as you need to i couldn't think of that at that moment because i was seeing red because all she said was you're on the triangle you're the victim yeah no people we can't my husband and i when we were first doing this 20 years ago we tried everything we tried that which definitely

doesn't work you're on the triangle when someone's on the triangle telling them to get they're on the triangle you're lucky if you don't get a sock in the face and then then we tried just pointing at our nose which is basically the same thing i wanted to punch him in the nose so then it became what I'm saying to you and I and even with my husband who's in Tennessee really or at least back then not anymore he would get really defensive even when I wanted to take a pause I would just say I'm on the triangle right now me even though I was very convinced in my villain position that I was not on the triangle but I would say I'm on the triangle so I need a break. And I would just take full ownership of it. It still works.

You can try that once. Stacey, Stacey, you can try that. Don't try the fringostrum. I don't recommend it. But, but yeah, so but it sounds like you guys are getting it. You may be, you know, feeling a little clumsy navigating through it. But you're seeing it Awareness is, you know, half of it. Right. So you're seeing it. You're noticing it. You're you're having a bird's eye view at times of what's happening. And Brian, even if you aren't noticing in the moment that you're on the triangle or that she's even on the triangle, you're noticing that, oh, wait a minute. I did miss something in that exchange. You know, she was making a bid for empathy. and and oh it's it's not usually me noticing it's Stacy usually pointing it out okay you jerk you didn't give me any empathy there when I said this I was like oh okay oops yeah you're right yeah and if you wanted to really work the system Stacy you would say I notice I'm feeling angry because I have a story you were like my eye was hurt and what I want is for you know you to slow down what

you want enough to notice what's happening with me before you make these requests yeah I think Brian exaggerates a little here and there but I did do that I actually said you know you're not understanding that I had this thing in my eye and the last time that happened I almost went blind so I panicked and I just wanted you to show me some empathy good and I even said I can't get it for you right now just be patient I have something in my eye and he didn't clue me right so then I had to explain it to him and say well the reason I didn't get it for you is because you showed me no empathy and that pissed me off because then that tells me you don't care about me yeah good I did say all that but what I am noticing though what I am noticing though is I kind of gave up on

the triangle bit, because it's sort of like a sore thing for him and I, because I don't want to be pointing fingers at him. And then he points fingers, I don't want to do that. But what I did find helpful, and I do see a progression, slow as it is, but it is a progression, is the what am I feeling? And what's the story I'm telling him what to want. And I'm noticing that when I get into that uncertain state, which normally is a lot that happens in my life for me to be feel uncertain. and I look to him for comfort or taking care of or what have you, I'm noticing before I can just react, I actually ask myself that and I tell him that. Feeling like the walls are closing in because such and such is happening and I need you to tell me everything's going to be okay

and this is the plan. This is what I want. I want us to have a plan. I want me not to feel like things are falling apart and is he able to do it yeah without him without him getting defensive now and taking it as an attack now he's understanding i'm trying to tell you i'm feeling this way and so when i'm feeling this way if you don't tune in yeah if you don't tune in then i'm gonna have to start getting more angry angry and fearful because it's coming from fear yeah right i don't want to be angry but i'm telling you that i'm getting scared and i need your help right but he needs like many people especially men no offense just because they don't tend to be so emotionally robust they need really specific yeah requests about what will like you just saying i'm feeling

really scared right now a lot of guys and i'm guessing brian is one of them is going to be like well, what do I, you know, well, okay. So I don't know what to do. Well, you're scared because of what I'm doing. Well, you know, they either go defensive or they don't know what to do or they freeze. Right. But when you say I'm feeling really scared right now and what I want or what I need is for you to X, Y, Z that they can do. I mean, it's like when men, one of the biggest complaints I get from men in relationships is that their partner is to, I'm not saying this is with you guys, but their partner will say, I want you to be more romantic. And he's like, what are you talking about yeah hours every you know he's not being romantic she's not being clear on what that

looks like in action you know they need instructions right for her they need instructions I need more romance and here are the things that feel romantic to me that he can do but if you just say I need more romance or I'm just really scared yeah you know then they're kind of at a loss often not always but I would say the majority of the time so I like that you're figuring out and yeah you don't I mean there's the reason to teach you about the drama triangle it's because it's a way to understand what you're doing and recognize when you're stuck or recognize that your partner is stuck it's not meant to be a tool of awareness that you pin on each other right the action that you do with each other is what comes after you realize you're on the triangle, which is what

you're doing. So when you realize you're on the triangle and now you're saying, I just notice I'm activated and I do it, which is great because when you're activated, you're on the triangle. When you're activated, meaning you're angry, scared, sad, whatever, when you're pointing the finger of blame or when you're absolutely convinced you're right that is when you're on the triangle done so then if you get any time that is true for you or your partner you move to either taking a break so you can achieve this or you go to what am I feeling what's the story behind what I'm feeling and what do I want yeah I just think it's what I'm feeling what I want I think that is like a detailed version of the triangle.

I just don't do triangle anymore because it becomes an attacking tool. So I'm like, okay, this is working. We'll stick with this. Good. All right. So I like that. So now is there anything else in the warmth building department? We've got kisses on the head.

We've got at least therapeutic massage. we've got at least at least 15 minutes a day preferably 30 can be spread out doesn't have to be great if you can make that pocket of time off technology one-on-one spending time together talking preferably not about stressful things but and you know the playing the sports we have Is there anything else physically or logistically that we can put in the connection slash warmth toolbox right now? I think we have done more like you've done the odd, you know, where you'll come and you'll hug me or hold me and give me a kiss on the cheek or kiss on the lips while we're playing sports or while we're out in public. And that actually feels nice. Ah, OK.

so what is it yeah actually hand holding even when we're sitting or like you know leaning leaning against each other when we're watching a show or something okay so all right so wait this is important hand holding and leaning against each other when home watching something because i was going to say it's interesting that maybe being out yeah you can tolerate and like more affection because it feels less triggering and less like the trauma you know where it was behind closed doors or at home or whatever it wasn't i'm assuming out in majorly public places it was out it was out too how would they do that they would just be under the table or something uh yes it would be on a bus it would be in a store okay so now when you're out at these

get you know sports you play together you do find because this is important once again with the instructions for brian to know the green zones and the red zones right so a green zone Can a green zone be when you are out on, you know, I guess I'm assuming you mostly are out when you're playing your sports together or maybe going to the rare event together, but it doesn't sound like you're, you know, out at events all the time. You're busy with little kids at home and a business that you're building. But when you are out, he can give you a hug, a kiss on the cheek, hold your hand, and that feels connecting to you. she prefers that like she she i know that's a little bit of what makes her feel loved as well is that in public if i show her that like i kiss her or hug her give her a kiss on the lips she feels like oh like you truly do love me you're not just here only for the sex because we're not

gonna have sex in public so she feels like there is that physical connection i think it almost affirms to her that i'm not just in it for the sex because normally for her that kiss would lead up to sex or you know molestation or whatever right so for that when it's in public i think she feels confident or sure of and you know feel safe and she's like oh like wow like he he's not just like only holding my hand and pretending to be my you know my husband he's actually truly showing that he loves me and doesn't matter who's looking good okay and when you're home or in private hand-holding leaning against each other and therapeutic massage and we hold each other in bed you hold my hand i hold your hand you hold me yeah okay

i'm very uncomfortable when i do that no we always hold hands we do day or maybe in my sleep i don't know you do yeah even in your sleep okay yeah my husband and i do that too in his sleep would would more physical non-sexual physical affection be okay or just the handle i don't think that's possible yeah i don't think it's possible for him because as soon as he turns and then it's the spooning action then it's like i've lost him yeah so i think the hand-holding is great okay and is there any other non-sexual physical affection hand-holding leaning against each other any other things that you can do that are physical at home that and kissing on the head i don't know is there anything more well he could give you he could give you a hug hug well

you're the one that you were saying you don't feel the warmth right yeah and so we're wanting to create more touch points throughout the day that you you don't have to do like let's take a moment to sit on the couch and hold hands together or let's wait until we're watching a movie although those things are great are there things that he can do as he's walk i'm not saying grab your ass because maybe that's too explicit but are there things that he can do like a side hug and we said already a kiss on the head are there things that he could start putting back into his repertoire as he's walking around and walking past you in the house? Seems like a lot.

I know. I don't think Stacey can handle more than that. She can't handle this. She can't handle this. Yeah, you're too much. We can stop there because that's a lot. And I think if you, Brian, put a little more attention, especially during those times I suggested every day

where you're kind of tuning into each other if she feels tuned into in a you know in a presence way intellectually and emotionally like giving her your presence and attention that will go a long way too if you just do a little bit of that every day um that creates that's a the feminine's form of physical intimacy is not that we don't like physical intimacy and circumstances too but but that creates emotional intimacy yeah okay all right so we're gonna keep rolling until we get your somatic started you're gonna call them um because you know what we're doing as i've said before is we're working with and around your trauma without treating it so and and we're We're slightly scraping it at a teeny bit, but we're mostly working around it until you can get in for the support you need and the system you're in.

And she did say that it wasn't going to be long term. It will be for a very short period of time. I don't know how long, but she did say it's not going to be an ongoing thing. So when Americans hear that Canada has free health care, it's not, it comes at price of waiting, comes at price of only so much. Yeah, it looks like it's, sure, you can get birth for free. But if it's an emergency thing, yeah, okay, great. But if it's not an emergency, good luck. This is not really free health care. Yeah, I'm sorry. I know. Well, we, I told you also about, you know, hopefully you guys are going to get to a place where you can work with a somatic healer yourselves, you know, without insurance or get insurance that will cover somatic healers, one or the other. Um, but I will, um, I'll keep my eyes out too, because sometimes, uh, people, you know, make offerings. I think I sent you some people that work on a sliding scale.

I don't know if you ever checked those out. Um, but I will send, I'll send it again in case you didn't get it. Cause I think I did a little search, but even if you work to remotely with someone who could do you know in the states you could do a sliding scale that because um i think i told you to check out the body keeps the score right yeah i have it yeah so you'll you can learn some things there too um all of those things will help but but this kind of thing you need an active support yeah Yeah. I'm also going to try and see if I can reach out to the same therapist that I went to go see for sex therapy. She came to do a seminar and I I connected with her because she she's gone through past sexual trauma herself.

And so I'm going to still try and see if I can talk to her because she actually knows me. it's not like she doesn't so i'll see she might she might be able to help and or no but someone who can help and just use dr laura's line is there any chance what are the chances what are the chances you could take on yes i'm gonna that works really well um and then uh yeah and if anybody's listening who is a somatic because we have a lot of somatic experiencing people that listen to this show if anybody's listening who offers sliding scale or wants to be an you know an addition to the treatment team for brian and stacy let me know that could be really great all right guys we'll talk to you soon okay take care bye i hope you're safe in california

The doctor said I'm crazy for your love. Wrote me a prescription, but there's no cure for a cry.