Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Finding Your Cup of Happy With Joss Stone

Episode Date: November 2, 2022

This episode is so meaningful to me! Today I am interviewing Joss Stone, one of my favorite singers and a truly amazing human being. She is such a soulful, thoughtful, and wise woman, and she has so many powerful tips about how we can stay happy even in this crazy world. Joss is best known for her beautiful music but she is a deeply inspiring person who hosts a podcast called “The Cup of Happy,” which is filled with lovely advice about how you can get the most out of your life and create more peace and joy in your daily life. Today, Joss and I will talk about: • Her podcast “The Cup of Happy:” What she has learned from leading researchers and philosophers about how to create more peace and happiness in your daily life • The difference between having fun and being happy • How she dealt with the loss of her baby and the pain of the miscarriage • Welcoming her rainbow baby • How she balances her career goals and creative urges with the day-to-day life of motherhood • Making decisions that feel right for you while still keeping in mind the needs of other people in your family and on your team • Creating peace for yourself and leaning into your ‘full body yes’ Give it a listen and let me know what you think! I know you will fall in love with Joss the same way I have. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm Dr. Laura Berman, a sex and relationship therapist. And for the past three decades, I've been helping people learn how to love and be loved better. That's what we're doing here on The Language of Love, where I get to answer calls and emails from people just like you. My goal with The Language of Love is to help you discover more meaningful emotional and physical intimacy and to help you build more awareness of how precious and sacred your sexuality really is. Be sure to email me or reach out with your very own love sex relationship

questions. And I might just answer them live on the air. It's time we all become fluent in the language of love. So if you enjoy music, you probably know who Joss Stone is. She started Her musical career at 14 years old is one of the most talented musicians and most soulful voices of our time. Her fans know this, but not everyone knows that she also has a podcast called A Cup of Happy. And she is an amazing human being. I got to know her several years ago and we've remained friends. And I've been a witness to her journey over the past several years. And I wanted to spend some time catching up with her. She has so much wisdom to share.

She has so many inspiring, creative talents. And we're going to talk music, relationships, how to stay happy in a crazy world, and also about some of the heartbreak that she's experienced more recently with the loss of a baby and the rainbow after the storm with the new baby about to arrive. This is a great conversation. I'm so excited to share it with you. I'm so excited to talk to you, Jess Stone. Thank you so much for coming on the show and spending some time with us.

Anytime. It's a delight. So I met you when I guess when I did your podcast several years ago, A Cup of Happy, which is such a cute name and so perfect to describe you because like you're a cup of happy and I fell in love with you. I mean, obviously your music has always inspired me and I've always been a fan, but just like you're such a love in person and you know not a lot of I wouldn't say not a lot of not all talented people are we have our moments don't we you know we kind of go through ebbs and flows

but um yeah no I think I found a good little spot the funny thing is is the podcast is a cup of happy and so people are under the impression well she must be happy all the time but actually It's like investigative. It's like, oh, how can I do this? How can I be happy most of the time? Can't do it all the time. But it's quite interesting talking to people. I bet. And let's talk about that for a minute, because I think that's something that we all struggle with. And I remember years ago, it was all over the social media, all over the media, how Brad Pitt said, I don't think anyone can ever really be happy or that happiness is overrated or whatever. And it started this whole discussion. Is it unrealistic? Because you said you want to

be happier, right? And that part of the seeking that cup of happy is to find all and discover all kinds of things you can put in that cup to get happy, right? Or to stay happy. So how has that worked in your life? Has it been a struggle to be happy? How have you created happiness in your life? I know we're going to talk about some of the new developments in your personal life, but yeah just in general yeah I think that there's been moments so there was moments when I was younger where I didn't realize that actually happiness was kind of the goal I thought it was I just want to have fun so I kind of made up this I can be logical yes I'm creative but I can be a very logical person in how I like systemic right yeah like how I plan my life and how I approach

it so if I'm feeling like something's not going right or I'm not achieving this or that or feeling a certain way, I'll come up with little plans to try and fix it. And one of the things I had was a fun scale from zero to 10. I was like, if it's not fun, and this is probably, I would say three or four years after I'd been signed. So I had a job when I was like 14, signed to a big major record label. I thought this would be great fun. And it wasn't very fun. It was very stressful and really horrid. I thought, no, this is not fun. So I made this scale and I decided I was only going to entertain things that were over a five. Okay. Then over the years, I've realized it's really more about what makes you feel happy and at peace. It's not about fun because you can

have fun staying up till four or five o'clock in the morning, getting pissed with your friends, chatting away, dancing till the sun comes up. Yeah, you can do that, but you'll be so tired if you have a 10 on the fun every day, you'll be exhausted. So I thought, let's go for happy and peace. So that's my little way of checking myself. So do you have a scale now for happy, peaceful? Oh yeah, I do. It's zero to 10 and anything that's over five gets considered. If it's over seven, I'm doing it. And how do you know, because this is something I talk about a lot. What I call it is the full body. Yes. Like if I don't have a full body, yes, I don't say yes to it and if I do I almost always even if it doesn't really make sense in the moment right

it's so hard because there's always a little niggling kind of maybe though you're wrong yes but you this could be great you know this massive optimism that's like overwhelming and you could be wrong don't worry there'll be another day yeah there'll be another day but make a mistake then how do you gauge it like how do you when you're kind of looking at a new opportunity or situation that you're considering and you want to think about where it is on the peaceful side, right? What's your process? Do you just think about it and say, okay, when I try this on, I feel this way. What do you do? Well, some things you can try on and some things you can't, you have to commit to them before you can even begin.

If it's a big project, you can't be like, well, I'll try it because there's usually a lot of people involved. Yeah. When I say try it, I mean, imagine yourself doing it. Yes, exactly. Think about it. You can't try it out. So I look at it like a game of chess. You're supposed to think 20 steps ahead in the game of chess. Yeah. Can you do that? I can do four. I can do a good four steps. Okay. That's good. And then I get tired and my brain starts to falter. I do think, right, so if I move here, this will happen there. And then if that happens, then that happens. But then what about the other option? So if you can think two or three steps ahead and think about the different characters that you're going to deal with in that scenario and maybe what they might

do. You have to empathize with other people and how they're going to feel. Yeah. Yeah. If you're dealing with something creative, I know that if I call Steve Greenwell, my engineer, I've known him since I'm 14, I know how he's going to feel about certain ways of recording. And then that's going to affect your piece. Totally. Because if he's not at peace. Then I'm not. Then you're not at piece so part of what what will determine the piece is how your team is going to react to something that definitely affects your piece that's huge for me yeah everyone around if they're okay I'm okay really what about you is it how I'm okay so if they're not okay I'm like I'm just not and I think it would be really great if I could just be okay and not worry about everyone else

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's so good, isn't it? That would be a worthy goal because otherwise, I mean, I guess it depends on who you surround yourself with, right? Yeah. Like if the people in your orbit are healthy, emotionally healthy, rational, normal people, then I think it is a fair litmus. Look, these are my partners. These are my people. This is my support team. These are my co-creators. We all have to be in alignment. And if they're not at peace, I'm not at peace. But that's very different than when, like, let's say there was something you were dying to do or so excited to do. And because of some idiosyncrasy or weird thing or shadow that the other person wasn't dealing with or wasn't facing, they weren't going to get go be at peace. And then

you're making those decisions from that place. Then you're staying stuck. And I think there's a big difference. I spent a lot of years doing that and that is the wrong thing to do. So yeah, I suppose you have to decide like, in what way do you need these people to feel happy? In what way do they need to be at peace so then you are? So if I'm creating something that is upsetting someone, I'll have to change whatever's going on. But if it's them upsetting themselves, I really can't do anything about that apart from be there to listen. I love that. That's a really smart way to distinguish it, right? If they're upsetting themselves if I'm upsetting them or doing something inconsiderate accidentally not that

it would ever be intentional or inappropriate yeah that's one thing but if they're just making themselves in a knot over there can you be at peace if they do right or do you just not hang out with people that do that no I think about them a lot and this is mostly why I started the podcast is because I'm like there has to be answers that I can help my friends with you know and my family with, you know, because we've all got our issues and we'll go to our most trusted person and tell that person about our issues. And we'll say, God, this is happening. That's happening. I don't know what to do. And often when I'm sat in that seat, I really would love for the other person to go, how about try this? I like that type of conversation.

You like practical advice. Yeah. It's like I can move forward with that. I'll give it a go, you know, and often it works because the person is from outside of the, in the circle. So they're not biased, but with some people they're just in it. Yeah. And it's so bothers me because I sit there thinking about it for weeks. You do. What can I suggest? But, and so partly, you know, the podcast for me has been great because I've been talking to loads of different people with loads of different ideas. Yeah. So you have, you're getting a whole, a whole medicine cabinet full of ideas. Yeah. And the beauty is, and I think this is true for most really wonderful creatives, part of, I think, what allows one to be as creative as you are.

And I think when you're a creative at the level you are, you're almost channeling your songs, your music. Not that there aren't practical things, but it is sort of a very intuitive process. And so that's like the light, beautiful side of that gift. The shadow side of that gift is that you feel things really much, but you feel a lot. And so where someone else might be able to look over at someone and be like, okay, you're keeping yourself stuck over there. You're in your own head. Like, I care about you.

I'll hold space for you. But like my boundary is that I'm not responsible for your happiness. Someone who is an empath, which is what we're talking about, right? who feels the feelings that other people are feeling is tiring. Yeah. Especially if you can't hold some sort of filter or boundary. Like you said, you take on that person's discontent, pain, fear, whatever it is, and then like struggle with it yourself for weeks because you can't fix it. Totally. It's very tiring. Even as far as like, I don't know, watching a movie, certain movies I just can't do my partner he has had to learn that about me he's like why can't you just

yeah it's like my husband said you know this is fiction right yeah no it doesn't matter yes exactly somebody thought this first of all so that's not fiction that came into someone's mind they wrote it down and then probably somewhere in the world it has happened to someone I just can't I can't I can't I can't it's too much so well that's a big burden what do you do or how do you I know you're you say the cup of happy is a way that you kind of get resources and information and guidance that helps you what do you do with all of that energy you're holding writing songs does help being creative definitely helps if I can't sleep and there's something on my mind, I will bake. I like baking. Oh yeah. You have your little cooking with Joss on Instagram.

I love watching that. Yeah. That is funny. I have so much fun doing it. And I realized when the pandemic happened, I had no gigs to play. All right. I'll do some cooking and say hi to the fans that way. Cause I can't, you can't go be with them and play for them. So, and I realized how much fun they had. They mostly were laughing at me cause I don't really know what I'm doing in the kitchen, but we all kind of did it together. It was great. I had fun watching those. That was a good show. Yeah. I think I commented on some of them. I don't know if you've had Anita Morjani on your show, but she's a friend of mine and I love her work. She's been on this show, but she has her newest book is called Sensitive is the New Strong. And it's about empaths and how to

manage that. So that would be a good resource for you because you don't want to erase your empathy it's a beautiful thing, but to kind of wear your empathy versus having your empathy wear you. Yes. It creates a much more peaceful life. You have to find the balance. Otherwise it can completely overtake you.

And then you feel totally overwhelmed and you can feel very useless. Yes. And get stuck in someone else's pain. And there's nothing you can do. You have to just let it go. But I can't not think about it. Cody would be like,

why stop you know because of course I talked to him about everything yeah so he hears all of my oh what about this and this and this worry and that worry he's like that's none of your thing don't worry about it like no but that's my best friend yeah she said x and y and z and it can be very frustrating to somebody that doesn't feel that way yeah my husband's sensitive but not an empath and he doesn't always understand why I am so affected by the pain of the world, much less the pain of the people close to me. So it is a process. It's a process for you and also kind of figuring out that bridge because there's a lot of ways in which I do talk to him about everything, but I don't necessarily talk to him as much as I might about ruminating on

something, but I just keep going around in circles around because I know at a certain point, he's going to be like, why are you still talking? I know, but you need that skill to do what you do. Yeah. Yeah. And to do what you do. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Because what we're doing is just, I believe, and I learned this when all the gigs disappeared, I believe that the job is to help people just feel good basically that's the job right so if you can then you do and it might be making someone a cake or it might be writing them a song right or it might be talking through their problems with them yeah but if that's the purpose if that's why we're on this planet then great i'm in and everyone's here for different reasons but i think yeah you and i share that you spent a lot

of your life trying to help people feel better yeah yeah try and help them heal yeah give them hope. And that's what you do too. Yeah. And then hopefully there'll be people that try and help you feel better too, because otherwise it's exhausting. You can't, you can't just give it all out. I've had to learn and I've gotten pretty good at like releasing things and creating energetic buffers and boundaries and figuring out the balance between empathizing with someone and taking it on where I'm carrying it. I had to do that just for my own survival, but it gets heavier and heavier as life goes on. And, and depending on what you're, I was surrounded by all sorts of dysfunctional people in my family and whatever. So

I really had to learn that. Right. But we all kind of learned that at our own pace. I want to ask you about Cody because I met him when we did that. I think you guys hadn't even been together that long. It was sort of a whirlwind romance. And you told me that you had kind of resisted at first, you know, because you're like, who the hell is this guy? Oh, I don't trust. And he kind of broke through your resistance. Yeah. And then not long after that, you announced that you were, you know, that Violet, who's like, let's have a baby. Yeah. I love you. Let's have a child. Okay, good. Yeah. Well, I remember you telling me, we talked about this a bit and I wanted to check in with you about it because he was talking about it with me too. This idea of, I forget, I'm trying

to remember how you put it, but yeah, the fairy tale, like the princess fairy tale complex. Yes. That's what you called it. Your fairy tale complex. You still have it. I know. Poor Cody. Poor bloke. So how does it play out? Like what happens? Well, he has to deal with that. So it's really, it's a shame for him. I mean, what does that look like in action? Like you get, you get disappointed because he didn't pull out all the stops for something or like what happened for me the fairy tale complex it's like very much like I don't know I kind of love the gender roles I love how people can step outside of those I'm just not one of those people yeah you like being really in your family being a lady and I like that he opens doors for me like little things

and he'll leave little notes around and the thing about Cody that is very much my fairy tale is that he's very protective. When I first met him, he was working in Iraq, looking after people that came from America to talk to diplomats and stuff. So he was working with those that went to the embassy in Baghdad. So his whole job was, I'm going to look after you. Yeah. And I thought, their guide and their protector. Yeah. Yeah. And that really worked with my little fairy tale. okay that's so cool he's that guy so if he's my guy then he's gonna look after me and my babies I always think forward this is yes you're before it moves ahead yeah yes and I'm like oh that's what I want for my family I want someone that just wants to look after us and that has not

changed he is definitely that man through and through he's very like he carries the heavy bags I remember we were talking about that he protects he's yeah he's very much like that yeah but then there is that a lot of pressure on him for us to kind of like if we fall out or anything like that my fairy tale gets like punctured and that's not good Paul no we should be able to fall out yeah no it's ruined oh no it's terrible so I have to be really conscious of that and so does he have to be conscious that I have that sensitivity because no one can live up to a fairy tale I mean you can that the aspects of the fairy tale that I think you're describing that make a lot of sense you know everyone's different but for you this is your love map right this is your love language

that really love the romantic gestures and the and the gentlemanly gestures and the alpha male protective beauty and the beast sort of element. Right. But then it kind of starts edging toward unreasonable. Right. If you're not allowed to work through conflicts, right. Yeah. Or have bad days or have an unconscious moment or get tired. And then since we've had Violet, of course, life is more tiring. Yes. So and that can be very hard to kind of keep up that thing of the honeymoon phase too because we're very we're in a very early relationship yeah how long have you been together now two years we've been three years now and we're on our second baby already so we were like I love you too one two three go you know which is so great but it means

we're learning each other yeah still yeah and two babies is a lot more than one it is not just double it is triple the work I know it's gonna be crazy yeah I can't wait and I'm glad that he's like up for it yeah it seems like yes he is and I can adjust my kind of my little dreams not in a horrible way in a lovely way because you have to learn how to like look after everyone so when it comes down to everyone feeling happy around me Cody is that it's just me and Cody and Violet yeah I don't have like my immediate family are not here we're in another country right right really that's it if Violet's happy and Cody's happy I'm happy okay if he is exhausted and tired that's no good yeah so I have to kind of go right I'll do the nights you wake up early

in the morning just grab her and then I'll have an extra hour of sleep and it's great right so you're navigating so you you can compromise on that right totally yeah that's always the answer to every problem yeah you just need to really think about it and do it and so when your fairy tale fantasy gets punctured in the moment yeah do you quickly recover from that or do you strut you do yeah I do okay I'm too logical not to because I know that I have that I know that I'm like oh I want it to be this way no he's kind of magical guy you know so it's just yes he is he voted that much I could see right away. And that's lovely, but it doesn't mean that we don't have our little punch-ups. Yeah, of course. Well, how could you not? I mean, everybody has. And if you don't,

I get very concerned if I meet a couple and they're like, we've been together for five years and we've never had an argument. I'm like, you guys are effed up. Like there's, I don't say that to them, but I'm thinking that is messed up. You aren't being your authentic selves. You aren't getting your needs met you aren't really showing up for each other and in a way that like allows you to grow and evolve together fighting is good for your honest relationship honesty is the most important thing you give to somebody that you care about yeah but it can be so horrible to hear it and i'm terrible with it i don't know how to do sugar coating yeah me either oh i really need to And then my husband says that to me, he goes, I've seen you on TV and even just talking to

friends. Like you are so careful about, and I'm like, well, that's because I'm being like really conscious. I'm with someone who I'm treating, but like with you and then millions of people think about it. I just let it hang out. Yeah. And it doesn't come naturally to me felt to filter. Yeah. So it's a process. I think that's a great thing, you know, to be with somebody that can be bluntly honest with you that's the biggest gift that they can give you and you said earlier about the map there was one song I love map yeah I never put it out because it was like emotional and I was too much of a wuss to put it out I'll find it and sing it yeah at some point at some point I'll bring it out but it says about the map of a woman yes we get told many times that women

talk too much we just talk talk talk all we do we are communicating yeah we are literally giving you the map. And if you are confused, that's because you are not listening. Yeah. You're not understanding. If you turn left up there, I'm going to be pissed off. I'm going to make you a cake. Yeah. It's like, why can't you follow the map? It's so easy, but you know, it's hard. I'd love to hear that song. Oh, yeah, I should. I'll send it to you. Yeah. Well, let's talk about your music. I want to come back to the babies too, but let's talk about your music since that's what we're talking about. There's so many of your songs that have touched me. I think I've even posted about some of them about Sammy, you know, my son and that, you know, brings up

all sorts of emotions, but there are two songs in particular. I wanted to just talk to you about one of them. I think is so relevant to my peeps because we spend so much time talking about kind of self-actualization and showing up as your authentic self. And I talked to so many people who are in relationships with narcissists or are struggling with being gaslit, right? Where they're convinced that what they're seeing isn't what they're seeing or what they want, they shouldn't want or what they're upset about, they're wrong to be upset about. And you have a song that I don't even know. This must have come out. It feels like it came out decades ago because I remember listening to this song a long time ago, Right To Be Wrong. Do you remember when that came out?

Yeah. So Right To Be Wrong was the first song I wrote with Betty Wright. So Betty Wright was my mentor when I was a little girl. So I was signed at 14. And then the record label guy was like, I want you to make an album of soul covers. And I was like, no, I don't want to do that. I'm writing songs I was like in my head in my feelings about the fact I'm writing songs of course I didn't know what I didn't even know how to write a song I don't know what I was on about I was learning you know yeah but he was like no this is gonna be great we're gonna get all these soul musicians together and they're gonna teach you and Betty Wright was that woman she was my teacher god what an amazing lady so her biggest tune was clean up woman and she started when she

was 14. So we're in there writing this song together and really she was steering the ship. She always was steering the ship no matter what day it was. And I was just listening and following and, you know, trying my best to not embarrass myself. I feel like I sing that song at the end of every show and it's because it means so much and it makes so much okay that you think hasn't been and actually is okay. And I think that she gave me that as a gift to say, don't worry, baby girl, you're going to make mistakes. Yeah. And it's the only way you get to grow. And she used to say things to me, like, it takes a lot of pressure to make the diamond, you know, he was so what an amazing mentor. Yeah. She knew what I was about to walk through. So that was her gift to me

and now to everyone. Right. Right to be wrong. It's like holding on to what I call discernment, knowing your truth, even in the face. To me, that's what it says. Even in the face of pressure, people telling you you're wrong,

people telling you you're crazy, whether it's in the micro level in your relationship or in the macro level out in the world or in your family. This family is on the brink of civil war. Mobland, the hit original series is now streaming on Paramount+. from the underworld of guy ritchie do you want to step up the ladder i won't call that dead

starring tom hardy pierce brosnan and helen mirren do i have to do everything myself mob land new season is now streaming on paramount plus i want to play a little clip if that's okay oh sure yeah this is my baby voice if you're gonna play the record oh my gosh so just leave me alone you're entitled to your opinion but it's really my decision i can't turn back i'm on a mission if you care don't you dare blur my vision let me be all that i can be don't smother me with negativity when I sing that part in the show it gives me encouragement to walk forward I did a world tour where I played every country in the world and when I had suggested it to everyone I was working

with at the beginning who by the way they all disappeared everyone thought I was completely mad they're like this is the worst idea you've ever had as far as business is concerned this is a no-go as far as your career is concerned what the hell are you doing and it was the best thing I've ever done and at the end of the world tour I wrote Betty a letter I haven't spoken to her for ages you know seen her intermittently and I said to her about that song and about that part I was like That helped me. That helped me know, actually, do not blur my vision. If you're going to blur it, please can you step aside? Yeah, get out of the way. Get out of the way. Don't deal with your own stuff. This is my mission. And I tell you what, yeah, it's really helped me do the things

I wanted to do and bring the light that I've been able to bring. And that tour was really, it seems like it really shaped even more a lot of your music because you got to play people from so many different cultures and experience everything from tribal music to traditional music to patriotic music, like all these different instruments and voices that you can hear in, in your music today. So yeah, it helped me look at the world in a much more kind a beautiful and accepting way as well yeah inclusive travel that much you realize just how lucky you are yeah yeah you know and we spend a lot of time we're in england we're in america we travel around europe you hear a lot of moaning yeah a lot a lot yeah gosh it's very it's a lot

we're all in our little insular realities yeah yeah and we're so talk about happiness that's a great way to be happy is gratitude right and when you when you see how good you really have it oh that's so important isn't it yeah do you know when violet cries she's up at night at god knows what time and she might be kicking off because she's teething or something i'll hold on to her and she'll be completely crazy and i would be like oh angel i'm so lucky i've got my little angel you know and it stops me from getting frustrated or too upset because i'm tired and it's just like that's the truth of the matter it's like a little baby that's such a perspective you know I'll have to send you I won't read it now but I'll have to send you this poem I wrote I was sitting in my

oldest son's room who's now 26 and he must have been three or four he was never a great sleeper he would go to sleep I'd have to play with his hair and my hand would be getting tired and he'd finally and I'd be exhausted after like working all day and crazy and I'm just want I'm ready for him to go to sleep. And he would start to fall asleep. And the second, I'm sure you've experienced this, like the second you shift your position, they wake, you think you're finally home clear. And they, you just take like one little move and they wake up and the whole thing starts again. And I could feel myself just getting so frustrated. And I just sat there and I started on my phone, just started writing this poem called Ethan's Hair. And it was about how I was feeling so

frustrated, but I also was so amazingly imbued with gratitude that I got to play with his hair and that he existed. It's that same feeling. It's so important. And it's so beautiful, that story. This is a good segue into the other song I wanted to talk to you about, which you brought out on the heels of George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery and who actually was front. I mean, that was such a crazy thing because I grew up in the town where he was murdered, which was like this small little southeast Georgia town. But you brought out a song called Walk With Me. And so let's play the clip from that. with me

mighty winds may holler round us it seems we've found ourselves on rocky ground death is on repeat but one thing seems clear to me

some may hate us but they'll never break us together with love it's more than It was like your public statement and also your call to action. It's interesting how that song came about because it was originally, it was like a wedding song. You know, it was like, walk with me through this life.

And it wasn't sitting completely right with me. It was like, this is a beautiful love song, but there's something more to it. and then that thing happened with george and then there was a few things that happened first of all there's millions of people that came together to stand in his defense yes that is beautiful together yeah that makes his death not in vain almost you know because how many times have we questioned humanity you don't have to if you just look at what happened like how beautiful people are yeah they do give a shit we all give a shit yeah and i thought that was wonderful to see that that was that was like the silver lining to that dark horrible cloud

and then there was I saw a video online of this guy saving a koala from the fires and that were going on in Australia and I know there was some fires going on in in California as well and there was I learned about these guys that come from Samoa to come and help put out fires it's like it's amazing how people can be and then I kept seeing all these signs everywhere because we're in the middle of a pandemic and it's like thank you to the heroes talking about the NHS workers and the healthcare workers here I'm thinking gosh they're on the front lines of a place they didn't ever expect they would be they're helping people I started to see it everywhere and I thought this is beautiful these are people being beautiful to

each other yeah and we can't do it on our own we're not on our own we're not in this life on our own. We're actually in this life together. So that kind of changed the song for me. And I was like, okay, now I know what this is. And now I know why it's come into my life now. So it was a co-write with Jonathan Shorten, who I've worked with since I was again, 14. So yeah, he really got it. Yeah. I really hope that everyone received it the way you did. Cause that was how it was intended. Yeah. Did you get any feedback that they didn't? I thought it was. I just kind of always hoped i never really looked too much at very much feedback from it yeah apart from any positive stuff i like oh great but yeah you know that's probably smart ignore it yeah because you

never know especially when you're talking i'm not aware of anyone taking it anyway but positively i certainly took it that way and i knew that was the way it was intended yeah for 50 years canadians have wondered what the names of ikea furniture mean like natopa the guardrail for children's beds natopa means giving your favorite person room to grow it means their safety and your piece of no in swedish natopa means night monkey mom he's back ikea 50 years of swedishness at home look he's wearing little pajamas so cute you know there's an effort to separate us yes and it ain't gonna happen we're not doing that we did the light is always stronger than the darkness totally and yeah we just have to remember that with all those people and yes of course it

all went a bit tits up the protest started getting a little bit crazy oh god laura i saw someone on tv he stood and this is the negative side of it yeah he did there with with a microphone saying here we are at a peaceful protest maybe didn't have such an English accent yeah peaceful protest everything's fine here and behind him there's like fire looks like it definitely did go slightly awry but there were moments that I think we should focus on and there were more good moments than there were bad you're such a beautiful optimist that's what's going to keep you happy is seeing the light because that's the filter you have to use right like we can see all that not that we have to be ignorant or blind to injustices and darkness we have to see it and we have to react

to it but when we look at humanity and look at our lives and look at the world looking through that lens of optimism and gratitude in my experience i mean i see in every conversation we've had and everything we've talked about in this conversation it comes back to your you really are an optimist by nature. I try to be. It got kind of deliberately practiced that when somebody does something, you know, certainly politicians, because I know we're all watching TV and it's like our new, it's our new reality TV show. I think to always remember, even if you didn't vote that way and you really hate that party or whatever, the intent, think about the intent. Yeah. Even if misguided, even if they make the wrong decision, the intent helps you to kind of, you know,

feel happier because you know they meant well they just did the wrong thing that's okay they're not sat there rubbing their hands together like dastardly horrible bastards yeah well i mean people find evidence for what they believe right and so yeah it's really that balance i think between not being clueless and pie in the sky blind to the truth but also not try to see the jumping to nefarious conclusions i know we can make a wonderful story because the media and the media that's how they make their money is by scaring the shit out of us so totally so that the silver lining thing i think is really relevant to the next thing i wanted to ask you about you have a baby coming when and it's a he right a brother for violet when is he due he's due in

six weeks. So the 20th of October. Yeah. And let me see your tummy. It's I feel so massive. You are insane. I don't know if you can see because I'm wearing black. I can totally see. And it looks like I looked at maybe, all right, let's say four months. Really? I think I was double that size with my kids by the time they were nine months. Is this bigger than your lap? Well, you're always bigger with the second because you're stretched out already. a little bit it's so much bigger honestly I have a picture of me at five months with Violet it's like there's no barely I remember seeing because you could barely tell that you were pregnant for almost the entire pregnancy it was so weird and then the last now you just have like

a little basketball that's it oh my gosh it's so crazy I've got loads of strange things going on like in the middle of the night I wake up and my leg is like having some sort of spasm yeah and my mom was like, oh, that's fine. I had that every pregnancy. I'm like, what is that? She's like, don't worry about it. Eat bananas. And then today I almost fell over because my hip just decided I'm not going to work. So I text my doctor. I'm like, I don't know if that's normal. He goes, I don't know what it is, but other women have it. I don't know what to tell you. It's just weird. Pregnancy is weird. Oh my God. And if it's so much bigger, it's probably putting a lot more stress on your joints and your, is he a roller or a kicker? He might be a roller. Yeah. I had

two rollers and one kicker. He's got a head down though. So I might get a natural birth on this one. Oh, good. All right. God, I want a natural birth on a natural one. It sounds awful. No, a lot of women want it. Yeah, no, it is, but it's, it's powerful. I would like to try that. yeah and yeah yeah with violet i didn't get to so oh and i know it's gonna go great and i know i know of course everyone is bleeding into it but either way you're gonna do it at a hospital right post c-section you're not gonna try a home birth no no no i think i feel more comfortable next door like all these doctors and stuff that would be yeah yeah so you'll be fine if they have do they'll they'll are you going to do an epidural or are you going to go for natural i think i'm

going to do my best but i will have the epidural i will ask them could you just have that like yeah because i think it's a wonderful idea yeah yeah i don't understand why we're against this i don't either this is a fabulous oh you know when i had my the only natural birth i did was my first son and then there was a complication and they and after that they said you need to do C-sections, but I won't go into the complication because it'll scary. I don't need scary, but here's what the advice I would give you. Okay. With him, I had the same plan you did to try natural and have the epidural ready to roll. The second I decided it was too much, but they decided to give me Pitocin, which speeds up labor. It's not helpful, is it? Well, here's what

happened. Just beware of this because I've heard this is very common. It supercharged my labor. And they're like, oh, we're going to give you this Pitocin and it'll probably take like five to six hours. And within an hour, I was in agony. And I kept saying to the nurse who was ignoring me, like, if this is mild contractions that I'm going to have for the next four to six hours, I can't. I thought like, what the hell is wrong with me? I thought I had a good pain threshold, but I'm dying here. And she was just like blowing me off, blowing me off. Finally, after maybe like an hour and a half or two hours, she comes in and she's like, let me just check you. And she went into a full on panic because I was almost fully dilated.

And the doctor had to get a police escort to get because he was home sleeping to get to the hospital in time. And I was like, OK, give me the epidural. And they're like, girl, it's too late for the epidural. So just be aware, if they decide to give you Pitocin, opt for the epidural at the same time. Yeah, I'll have them both at the same time. Yeah. One in my arm. No, it sounds awful, the Pitocin. I've not heard good stories about it. It really like proper makes it more painful, doesn't it? Yeah, it definitely did. And so one other thing I want to just touch on from the optimism standpoint, because this does affect millions of people who are going to relate to this part of your story, that between Violet and this beautiful being, which I had no idea about

until I think you posted one video because you were canceling an appearance or a concert that you were doing. But I didn't even know this happened to you, that you had a miscarriage. Yeah, man, that was bad. That was a bad one. So the doctor had said to me once I'd had Violet, what are you going to do for contraception and I said nothing what are you talking about I want to have seven children I'm not doing anything for contraception I want loads of babies he's like darling we've just cut you open yeah you gotta heal yeah you have to heal you can't do that so I said oh okay well I don't want to put hormones in me that I've never done before that might I've got fear of that like I don't want that to affect my chances of having a baby

so Cody was like sorry I'll do condoms of course that's gonna work out oh no seven months she was seven months old and I fell pregnant and I was like I was so excited don't think Cody was that excited because it was so close and maybe he was worried about my body and stuff yeah I don't know if I was like over upset I don't know what went on I also had had the vaccination four months before and I have read things and heard many things that it hinders your hormones from your ovaries firing properly, which is very gutting to me right now because the pressure to have it was so overwhelming. Oh yeah. And that makes me feel really stupid because I don't get pressured. I'm not that type of person. I don't consider myself a person that gets pressured, but I did feel that. And I don't

know if that was why but it was so you're blaming yourself a little bit well and the reason why I am is because I think that it's my body and I have the control over the environment that my body is in and I just can't get with the idea that it's just a fluke you're convinced it was your body well what if it was your uterus still just wasn't ready they cut your uterus they do wide open for a c-section and it takes a while i mean we're not talking about a surface wound we're talking about several layers of tissue that has to pretty intense the old section yeah yeah i mean i've had two of them it's a lot it takes a long time to fully heal and putting that much activity in there seven months after that kind of surgery like it could have been and that

is totally beyond your control I mean you don't blame yourself that you need it that you had a c-section well I decided to have I decided to have a c-section I didn't do labor and then have a c-section I had a I had a planned c-section an elective c-section elective c-section so I elected that did you intend to get pregnant when you got pregnant? No, no, I didn't. But there's a way of taking responsibility without kind of being kept in hindsight and being like, I should have, should have, I don't want to beat myself up about it. However, I don't want to be a person that just relinquishes responsibility for what goes on within her body because I don't want to live like that I feel like that makes me feel totally out of control totally whereas I know I was out

of control and it did happen it's awful so when I fell pregnant with this little man in here I was like okay I need good vibes I need to not be upset about things yeah yeah that's a huge thing everyone I know that has had a miscarriage my personal friends that have had miscarriages all of them have a story about how upset they were at the time of their pregnancy and how what trauma they were going through or upset or crying or this and that and the other. Well, that affects your hormones. It affects your body, affects everything, even energetically. Yeah. So I just feel like, come on, there's got to be an answer. So I went to my doctor and I was like, I need to know why this happened. So I don't have this happen again because I want to look after my babies. Yeah,

of course. I don't want to be like, oh, don't worry about it. It's just a fluke. I'll just live my life no have a plan I want to make sure my babies are okay and he was like oh maybe you know your uterus wasn't healed enough okay that's good I'll take that I'll take something I need something yes you know and I learned too late but I learned that there is a way if you know so I had a missed miscarriage so I didn't like lose the baby they did a scan and said there's no heartbeat and I didn't believe them so I was like no you're definitely wrong about that so I just was like mind over matter Joss come on they're wrong I'm gonna bring this thing yeah it's gonna be all right and I did everything I could do I did all sorts of you know meditations

and prayers and candles and everything I could do and then of course it did happen which was awful that's a whole other world of stories i found online if you can catch it you can send the little baby off it's just basically it's blood you can send whatever you have and they can tell you whether it was chromosomal yeah or not that's all they can tell you yeah yeah yeah like this baby wouldn't have lived no matter what because of chromosomal issues that were going on yeah and that to me would have been amazing information yes that would have made you feel a lot better yeah but I just didn't manage to to get it to get the right stuff and I'll never know can I just offer one more thing I don't know just because I'm compelled to offer it you're

getting teary it's making me want to get teary about my losses too so we're going to try to keep it together here and have this conversation but difficult but I do one of the things that I have learned is that our souls have a path yeah your story and your tears are making mine come up But I know it's fine. It's good. It's all in service because many people need to hear this. I think this whole conversation, not just what I'm saying right now, but I do think that, and I've talked to so many people now who have had near-death experiences. So they've died and come back. And so they've learned all this stuff on the other side, but also who have lost and had tremendous loss and also tons of spiritual teachers. And one of the things that I've come to really just believe in the core of my being is that every soul, even those souls that come into our womb for three weeks to six months, they have a soul plan. Like we think, oh my gosh, that life didn't come to fruition. They came in for their personal soul path growth and also for ours. For a reason.

For a reason, right? So we won't know what that, you won't know what that reason is until you go to the other side, maybe 150 years, right? You won't really know what it is. We could hypothesize, like maybe it was that, I mean, I'm just making up a story here, right? But yeah, it's a teacher or it's clearing the path or there was a reaction to that experience and that loss that changed the path of your life in some way. Not to mention that this baby that's coming through wouldn't be coming through. That's true.

If this one had come through. The other thing that I've been told time and time again, and these are from like every orientation, every religious background. It's so interesting because I talked to a shaman who told me this. I talked to a rabbi who told me this. I talked to a metaphysical soul traveler who told me this, but that we, our souls, we don't consciously do it, but our souls literally choose when to die. Like we decide to die. We decide to leave our bodies when we do. Right. And there's a purpose to it. And it's hard to wrap our head around. It's so difficult, isn't it? When it's, when it's your babe, because you feel like you,

your job is there to stop that from happening yeah to protect them and to keep them alive and to the bare minimum as a bare minimum we think we should do right yeah and so when your child dies whether they're two weeks in your womb or 16 years old like sammy the first thing we want to do is blame ourselves yeah and just don't want it to happen again yeah but the truth is i think it's a worthy goal to learn learn and to do as much as you can to support it not happening again yeah but the truth is none of us are in control as much as we want to be i know exactly it's a horrible thought isn't it yeah not be in control when it comes to your children yeah i mean when when they're born like the first thing you think is like i've never felt love like this before i

this is like and the fear right and then the second thought is like holy shit something can happen right like and that's the duality that a parent lives with our entire until we leave right if nature takes its natural course and we go first like that's their not just in their childhood it's their their entire lives right we're always walking that duality of love gratitude appreciation and just wanting them to be okay. Just wanting them to be okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. So I do think, and I've also talked to a lot of moms who have lost babies and then had a baby right after. I just encourage you to think, to watch when this baby comes and is like looking in the corner of the ceiling or staring at something like the little angel. Yeah. I hear

that all the time that the lost baby is an angel for the next baby is like a companion my doctor said oh you know he's we were talking about you know what it could be I think it was him that had said he's an angel and a lot of people have said that yeah and I think that's lovely but my mind immediately went no angels have to do all sorts they're very busy they're constantly looking off to someone baby. I think he was only nine weeks. He no, his body was only nine weeks, but his soul could have been enormous. Absolutely. I'm just like, no, I just don't want him to have to be busy right now. He's too little for that level of responsibility. oh that was just this this body he chose for this short time but it's not exactly who he really or

she i don't know if it's he or she but who he really was or is we just don't know so we have to just let it up to yeah the powers that be whatever that is yeah just try to move forward well i am so sorry for your loss but as i know you've written about and talked about that that this baby is the rainbow after the storm. And I'm so excited for him to come into the world. Do you have a name yet? Can you say it? Oh, I have some options now. Okay. I know that whatever name I give this baby is going to get a shortened version of the name because that's just the way we roll in the UK. Yeah. It doesn't matter what your name is. If it's Laura, you're L. Yeah. Yeah. or your law yeah if it's jocelyn you're just if it's cody your code it is what it is yeah yeah

so i loved the name winston oh that's so cute right like churchill like yeah yeah but then i don't really care for winston churchill i just like the name it reminds me of like reggae music for something yeah yeah yeah yeah but then people will shorten it to winnie which i think is like actually kind of feminine i think it's cute yeah i'm like oh i don't know about that so anyway i'll come up with this name and it's you either love it or you hate it it's a marmite situation okay it's an explorer from the 1700s or something like that and he went into antarctica and um he got stuck there because it got a bit cold and the ice ate his boat and he had to save his men there's a whole long drama story about it but he did save his man i think i saw that or read that story i

know what you're talking about but i don't remember his name what was his name was ernest shackleton oh yes i remember this name yes i love the name shackleton last name is a first name and call him shack for short shack is very cute isn't that cool i like that what's his last name it would be Deleuze so I know he would keep my maiden name Shackleton Shackleton Deleuze Shackleton Stoker Deleuze wow I don't know I like it and does Cody like it he did like it he goes off and on I mean it puts all the pressure on me he's like you could just name him whatever you want I'm like yeah but you have to join in well you know what's really cute is that you're naming him after like the epitome of that prince, right? Who is a protector and a hero. And yeah,

that makes sense to me. I think it's very cute. You know, listen, and this isn't just compare the two, but my 17 year old was just giving me hell the other day, which he does intermittently for the fact his name is Jackson. And for short, my husband wouldn't let me, but I really wanted to name him darwin oh darwin that's quite cool i thought it was such a cool name and he's such a cool kid he would have been he's like i can't believe he's just was saying to me the other day i can't believe that you were gonna name me darwin that is so lame like he was so upset with me that i considered that and the only reason he wasn't named darwin is because my husband wouldn't have it but gosh anyway this is the fear is that i don't want them to like hate their name

but you know what can I do I'm gonna find something to hate but you did so just oh I know your best oh god it's very it's a very important job naming a child yeah I like Shaq I like it reminds me of Shaq the athlete right and he's a nice guy yeah he's a very nice guy yeah I mean I don't know him personally but he seems like it yeah he seems like a nice chap yeah I like it I don't know I'm to it it's even that or winston but don't like winnie no i like winnie but i mean it's cute when they're young but then it's a little prep schoolie like yeah it's difficult once they get older like we do yes and horses horses make that oh yeah that's true they win yeah you know gosh very difficult it is it's a big responsibility but it's amazing though i'll probably just pop him

out and then they'll be like oh my god you're totally a bomb that's what i've done with every kid like i've had my ideas and then once they come out i'm like okay this this is right yeah you're actually an ian well i can't wait to see him and for him to arrive and to watch you and cheer you on in this next beautiful phase of your life and i know you're still performing i don't know if you stop now with the baby coming now okay i did my last one four days ago wow tell you what next time i get pregnant remind me i should not be touring this late in my pregnancy that's a lot i said to the doc how long can i tour for you know i don't want to overstretch it i want to do the right thing and yeah he goes you know you can go till six

weeks before you have the baby it's fine you know just if you have a baby in whatever country you're in then you know don't worry they've probably got a hospital there right it's all good yeah but it won't affect anything going up in the air yeah I'll say okay cool I'll just do it then oh my goodness there's a lot poor lungs my lungs are getting squashed yeah I remember when I was pregnant and speaking I didn't even sing which requires a lot more lung than speaking rejecting your voice in an audience and I would have to sit down on a stool I would get all out of breath just talking it's terrible yeah I didn't even think about that with singing I thought you were going to say I'm exhausted it's heavy and you know but not I didn't

even think about the lung thing but of course yeah it totally affects your voice and then you've got this whole like relaxing hormone everywhere all in your muscles to get you ready to push out this watermelon well it doesn't avoid the vocal cords ah interesting you're dealing with a different instruments wow I never even thought of that yeah it's crazy that's a really good point all right so you'll know for the next how many more do we have four or five kids I'll probably have a couple I'll put maybe two or three more natural and then I'm gonna adopt I think the next one we're gonna adopt oh nice I can't wait so exciting well I'm so excited for your journey and so grateful to talk to you and to be able to spend a little time chatting and being bathed in your beautiful energy

and optimistic. Thank you for all you are and all the beauty you bring to the world, my friend. I'm so excited for you. Thank you very much. It's been lovely. All I wanna do, I wanna do is take you home with me I wanna make a move, I wanna make a move