Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Hormone Therapy and the Path to Renewed Passion

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

In this episode of the Language of Love Session, I continue my conversation with Marla and Ken, a couple I've been helping to understand the hurdles they've faced and the strides they've made in enhancing their emotional and physical intimacy. We delve into the details of their physical intimacy and sexual relationship. Ken opens up about his struggle with sexual energy and desire, which he feels is lacking, describing it as "flat." Although his testosterone levels have been normal in past tests, we get into how misleading the wide range of “normal” is, and how important it is to have results read by someone who’s really trained in anti-aging medicine and hormone therapy. I also cover the important role testosterone plays, not only for sexual desire but also for overall well-being, and we discuss various hormone replacement options. Marla shares her perspective as well, and together we reflect on how Ken's recent retirement might be influencing his energy and motivation. I advise them to consult with a specialist in sexual medicine to address these concerns, with the hope of enhancing their relationship. Here is what we explore: Importance of initiating physical intimacy in the relationship Emphasis on sensual and erotic touch to strengthen the connection Retirement and its impact on confidence and sense of purpose Testosterone therapy and its potential impact on sexual energy and general well-bein Remember, the journey to rekindling intimacy is both personal and universal. Check out my website for books and courses like Quantum Sex to improve your sex life, along with many others. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman, and for the last 30 years, I've been helping people learn to love and be loved better. Welcome to the Language of Love Sessions. This is where I get to work with you one-on-one, on air. You, my listeners, my goal in these sessions is to empower you to enjoy better relationships, both with others and with yourself and to help you embrace how precious and sacred your body, your love life, and your sexuality really is.

It's time we all become fluent in the language of love. Hi, guys. Hi. How are you? How we doing? We're doing good. We're doing good. I'll let you go first, Kenny.

Go ahead, Kenny. Go ahead, sweetie. You go first. I think the month since we last spoke was kind of uneventful and maybe midway through the month, Marla and I had a pretty good conversation. I wouldn't call it intense, but Marla challenged me on some things and we had a really good chat. Well, we launched it re-listening to the podcast. Yeah, the impetus behind that conversation was Marla sent me, I guess this is kind of funny, Marla sent me the replay of our last session. And I listened to it.

I said, yeah, let's do some good things. And I started telling Marla what I thought the good things were. And that's when Marla started busting my chops about, yeah, well, they're the good things, but you got to like, you know, you got to do something about it. I go, you know, OK, OK, you know, fair enough. You know, don't beat me up. I'm trying to own it. But that was the impetus for a good discussion, a good, hard, honest discussion. And that action.

Yeah, and the last and from that point on, but specifically and especially this last few days have been very, you know, very good. We have some really good conversations. We opened up about a lot of things. You know, Marla's very open about just about everything that goes on in her day. And, you know, me, I'm more, it wasn't that big of a deal, nothing really to talk about. And then we got into some interesting things. We went to, I go to church with Marla, you know, I try to go once a month, you know, maybe I miss a month here and a month there, you know, not really my thing.

And the sermon was actually very good. And we had a good conversation about that. And then we started talking about death and, you know, how do you process that? And a friend of mine is working with people who are not doing particularly well. And he goes, you know, it's amazing. There's just a complete peace with it. And I go, Marla, I can't even begin to wrap my head around that. And that led to, you know, believing and faith and things like that.

And then Marla sent me another, you know, podcast about the pillars of happiness. and, you know, one of the things with faith. And so, you know, and Marla's not trying to ram it down my throat or anything like that. She knows that that's something that's not really a strong thing or a strong presence in my life. So I think in theory, sure, yeah, of course, why not? But crossing that line and embracing it, believing it and making it really part of me is something I'm not really there.

But by just opening up a little bit, you know, I think Marla, and Marla knows I'm all in, But it just made me a bit more vulnerable, you know, than usual. And I think that just helped us a lot, you know, connecting. You mean talk about sort of the life and death and faith and that level of conversation and your vulnerability around whether to what extent you have it or hold it or want it or don't have it was an intimacy building, emotional intimacy building. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty heavy stuff. when you when you get into it right yeah i know it's not like oh i have too much to drink let's talk about dying you know it was really yeah this is you know we're not going to be here forever so it was it was a good conversation and it was it was heavy but not in a bad way in a good way yeah

i gotcha that was that was good and we're definitely doing the 30 second hug yeah i was gonna ask you that so because one of the things we talked about the last time was this idea of how for you, there's no question in your mind how much you love Marla and you show her all the time how much you love her in your actions, in your minds, right? But what we talked about is how she has a different language. And while she appreciates you loving her in your language, she needed some in her native tongue. Metaphorically speaking. How's that been going? Yeah, that's been going very well. And I did put it in my phone and I'm still-

Oh good, you put the reminders in to hug and kiss her. Yeah, I'm stubborn, but I'm not stupid. So I know when I'm totally outmatched two to one here. So I put it in my phone and I'm still a little embarrassed to say it's a damn good thing it is in my phone. Yeah, don't be embarrassed. It's not, it doesn't, just because it doesn't come naturally to you

doesn't mean that there's something flawed about you. It's like, just like, you know, it wouldn't be natural to you to practice anything that didn't, that wasn't innate in you, right? It's not your language of love you're having, you know, it's like duolingo. You have to remind yourself to practice. Yeah, that is very true.

So the reminders have been helpful. And I think we've been doing better on the touching, you know, the last couple of days, maybe the last week or so. I mean, I hurt my back a little bit. And Marla was, you know, super compassionate and really gave me a very, very, very good, you know, very light, tender, but very nice, you know, massage. And I needed it. I mean, it relaxed me, which took some pressure off my back and it just, you know, it just felt good. So that was great. And Marla likes touch 24-7, but especially at bedtime, you know, it helps Marla relax. Like we all have our thing. And I think I've stepped up on that at least the last couple of days and even, you know, the last week or two, perhaps being more touchy in that regard. And that's definitely drawn me, you know, closer to Marla in terms of.

And how does she respond in your mind, from your perspective, when you've been giving her more physical affection and your alarm goes off and you go to give her a hug or a kiss or whatever? I mean, obviously very positive. And I mean, I could just see it in Marla's eyes, how she just, and hear it in her voice and her movements, that it completely relaxes her and just, you know. It opens her heart. Yeah, it gives her that serenity that she really, that we all look for. it's marla's language so does she give you the sense that she feels the love when you give it when you yeah completely that way feel safer more connected happier it totally relaxes her and just opens her up you know it's like a flower right marla's walking around a little bit like this

never like that we all do right just the right amount of touch the right time you know just totally opens her up. Yeah, I like that metaphor. We got to feel safe and held to blasphemous divine feminine creatures. Yes, yes. Yes, you do. So Marla, what have you been noticing? I think that for me last week, there was just a day of just all the things that went wrong in the house. So I was able to empathize with Kenny because he was controlling his reactions to the workmen and I was reactive and I I made amends and said I get it now like this has really been a big thing and it's really starting to get on my last nerve and I haven't been as understanding empathetic I've just been criticizing you know your reaction to

things and as recently as last week it was raining and the guys came in and you know the long story short is it comes from the top and you can't get mad at the people who are working because so it was kind of a turning point and it was a few days after was Tuesday night that on the way home from the city I played I replayed the podcast because I was listening to it in the city walking around like we are so lucky this is amazing but like but oh my gosh like it was a wake-up call so my timing was really crappy he was working all day at the house and then he picked me up in the city I was with our daughter and I just put it on it was it was not graceful and I was a little I was a little snotty to be very honest so you put on to point out to him how you hadn't been

doing the homework or something why did you yeah my motives weren't really pure they were just sort of like not not you not you stink but we stink like how lucky are we to have this and we're we're not doing it. Like, why aren't we doing it? You know, Dr. Laura says you're a man of action. You get shit done. So what is the blockage? Is it the way I talk to you? Have I been better with my Marla-ness? Like I need some feedback too, because I immediately give him feedback, but I wasn't getting any feedback. Like, have I been softer? Have I been better? And he paused and he, I said, okay, I have the answer. Cause he just kind of, his silence was the answer. And I'm like, oh, man, like, yes, it's the delicate flower thing.

It's like the vegan friggin fly traps. That's what you signed up for. Yeah. So then we talked because shortly after our session with you, we sat down as Kenny does. And we talked about things that activate us and make us happy and bring us together. And I said, well, Kenny, this isn't it. Like this isn't box checked. We did our homework.

This is, we have to keep thinking about this, both of us, not just you, you know, and really figure out what's going to bring us together because once all the work's done in the house, we get to play and be free again and do things away from the house. And I didn't realize how much the house stuff was just sucking us dry, you know, construct any kind of upheaval. I mean, this happens. I'm sure you remember when you had your kids, like any these big upheavals or illnesses or deaths or financial crises or young, you know, sleeplessness with young children. There are these things that kind of can take us over and take us out of our attention and routine around connecting.

Right. Yeah. What was funny, not funny, but odd is all those things you mentioned never did this to us. You know, just like all the losses. I mean, there was a lot of carnage and Kenny was just right there. And I said several times, Kenny, you did not sign up for this. Like you don't have to stay like, like really just give me enough to get started. And it's unfair because it was just one thing after the other. You know, we talked about that. We talked about, does he feel a little less not working? Does he miss the adulation? You know, is that kind of pulling away from him a little bit? So we talked about a lot of deep things. For the conclusions. Yeah. I mean, my conclusion, and it's hard to some, I mean, who else could articulate how I feel better than me, but

sometimes it's hard to be deeply honest about it. And sometimes you really don't know. If I missed work, I don't think I would have retired. You know, I was just done. I was ready to retire. Marla and I had a plan. And I don't mean that in like some sterile way. You know, our plan was to, now that our kids are grown and they're on their own, they're doing their thing, our plan was to get the hell out of here and just travel our asses off and do whatever we wanted to do when we wanted to do it. And that's exactly what we've done.

We've probably spent half of our time, but, you know, pre-buying the house, which just kind of grounded, we've probably spent half of our retirement time on the road. So we're doing exactly what we wanted to do. And I've never looked back at all. I haven't spoken to the people I've worked with since the day I left, except maybe one phone call from Ryan. I mean, I don't miss work. I don't miss them. They're nice guys and all that.

Right. That's not missing for you. That's my work life. That's not my life. So I don't think I do miss it. I really don't. But that said, maybe I wasn't as ready to retire as I thought I was. There's some kind of tail that, you know, kind of hangs over it a little bit.

but what's funny is and we might be going a little off track here so you can redirect me as you see appropriate but there's nothing more that i look forward to than a day with nothing to do because a day for me with nothing to do means i have an entire day to spend with marla so those are the days i like the most i hate waking up and having like even today is a good example and marla knows this but sometimes it's good to get just a smack between the eyes with it like marla said She knows how much time I'm spending on the house and she knows how frustrating it is, but she really got a really good glimpse out of it last week. Well, building a house is very stressful. But I think I was open, if I may, because he was communicating with me and being softer with me.

So you weren't so defensive and then you were able to be like, oh, okay, I see now why you get so angry. I see why this saps your aliveness to the extent that it has. And you felt undefensive enough because of the dynamics between the two of you to have that conversation. Let me ask you this. So I get that right now, and hopefully this will wind down soon, eventually this stuff with the house. and it'll be done tomorrow oh okay there you go and then you're going to be free again so what is your plan what are you going to do with that freedom that in service to your connection yeah i don't think that we've mapped anything out you know we we really like to just keep things open and you know just wing it and stuff like that that can be a plan yeah and you know i you know speaking for me and again i'm not locked into it but i don't we have the luxury of not traveling in the summertime when everyone else is traveling so we can travel off season that's what we've done and it's been terrific you know no crowds off peak everything's been great you know we finally

have you know the construction guys out of here we've got the house to ourselves we got a beautiful backyard pool weather's great so I think for the next week or two at least we're just going to relax take it easy maybe have a couple of friends over you know some family might come over later in in the summertime and you'll have time to intimacy yeah and it'll just be that's the goal yeah it'll just be us that's the goal so no interruptions no third parties and i think that'll help a lot in terms of you know connecting and reconnecting and and you know figure something out down the road in terms of travel and stuff like that yeah i think for me anyway we had to get connecting. Like I can't connect physically unless I'm connected emotionally. So I don't

think either one of us realized how far behind we were. So, you know, we're getting much more connected talking, but now I'm like, okay, now I'm like, where's that bridge? I'm anxious for the bridge. And I thought I found someone to work with, with this somatic experiencing, but it kind of went sour that was the same day I was in the city and she asked to FaceTime with me and she wanted a copy of my driver's license and it just felt very odd and she didn't tell me where she lived and you know I wasn't clear about if it would be in person and I said look this is very new for me so it's back to the drawing board but I put a lot of time into finding this practitioner but it's okay. I followed my intuition. It just didn't feel right.

Yeah. And you do need to, and it is a pain in the butt when you find someone who you think is good and then they turn out not to be, but it's really worth it to, you know, once you find someone and maybe work a couple of them at once, you know, until you, until you, and I said, you know, we're working with someone who's really amazing. And she suggested first me and then perhaps me my husband she's like oh no no no no no like she was just very rigid and she was interviewing me but i wasn't like when i went to ask her questions it was like i can't tell you where i live i need your license first it felt very like yeah yeah i mean maybe we could argue that she's been burned or some totally totally still not if you're working with someone and they're in a vulnerable

place and ready to kind of sign up for therapy with you you gotta if you don't know how to finesse that you probably aren't a very effective therapist. That's how I felt. I agree with you. Yeah. So I was just like someone's license and handle those kinds of questions in a kind of way that leaves the person feeling comfortable and understanding. Correct. Rather than sort of uncomfortable. So yeah, if it didn't feel delicate, it didn't feel like soft. Well, it sounds like that's an important piece, the somatic piece and the two of you maybe even doing some somatic things together. Like you could even take not necessarily somatic experiencing, although that will be great when you find someone, but take a little, it'll be great for Kenny's back to take

a little gentle yoga class, restorative yoga class, or something else together. Now that you have the time in the summer, do those things. And to really make, just like you've made a concerted effort, Kenny, with your little reminders on your phone, which I encourage you to keep doing. If you do it consistently for three weeks, I mean, you know this, that it, like the way our brains work, it takes three weeks to develop a new habit of doing something consistently. So if you do it consistently for three weeks, you probably won't need the reminders anymore, but it's totally natural to need the reminders. And quite frankly, I still have the reminders in my phone after years, because when I get really busy or distracted, I forget. So I

keep the reminders on. You don't have to, but I would say to do the same kind of thing to a lesser degree with your physical intimate life, because now you're out of the habit of physical intimacy. That doesn't mean you don't, as you said, Marla, we've done a lot. You've done a lot to rebuild the emotional connection, which is required for you and for most women, frankly, to want to be physical. Right. So you have that infrastructure in place and you're going to continue to build on that. But once you're out of the habit of being physically intimate with each other, you have to reestablish the habit. Yeah. We both said, we feel like we're, you know, the first night Kenny put his hand on my leg and I was like, this is really, this is really just so crazy awkward. Like it's like, embrace it. And I'm like, you know what? It's just, we'll just, it's like, we're starting again. You can go back to where we started. I do this with couples all the time when things kind of get, I say derailed, not in the way of like a huge train accident, but just like off piste a little bit. Of course, it's about starting from the beginning again. So start again with that touching, right? Where you just touch each other, avoiding the breast and genitals and do that at first for a week or two weeks or until you feel comfortable and then start building it back

in, like start again. It doesn't mean that you're moving backwards because your experience of it this time is going to be different, but I really, really want you at least once a week to engage in physical intimacy of some sort doesn't have intercourse every time until you kind of feel like maybe that is comfortable and you're cool with that you could do that too but let's i feel like i have a way to go for that i just feel like i told honey like that this part of me is just like in a freeze like it's not even about him that's about your past trauma that you're going to be working through and somatic experiencing and obviously he can play a role in creating

safety and containment and connection as do that. And that's a beautiful thing, but that's just one more reason to do the touching for now. Are you comfortable with that? I had asked Kenny about that. I said, Kenny, we haven't done the touching in so long and he didn't respond. And I wasn't going to press it because, but then when he heard his back, I said, let's go up to the massage table so i massaged him i red lighted him i put on nice music i stimmed him the heating pad and it felt good to to love on him in that way again even though it wasn't you know well that's a kind of touching massacre yeah yeah oh and i asked him because when we first got the massage table we had it in the living room because everything was out of order and at night he would say would you like

to come to my my massage like he was silly and fun and i said what changed like what what made it simple when the massage table was in the living room should we put it back in the living room and i don't know he said he wasn't sure so i said well maybe that's something to think about yeah when it was in the living room it was just like there it was it was easy it was easy i'm Would it make a difference? No, I, we won't know until we, until we try, but yeah, good. Good. I'm asking you.

We have, we have another one. I know. I know we got two by accident and it was. So leave one upstairs and one in the living room for a while and see, but what this is calling on you for Kenny. And I'm sorry, we keep calling on you. Believe me, as you continue to step up, I'm going to start holding her feet to the fire too.

So don't worry about that. But this is going to be like she's got to be receptive and initiate. But because part of the trauma between you is your her perception of your lack of interest and forward momentum. Right. That's part of the disconnect. If you're willing, we need you to add to your to do list. So in addition to those several times a day reaching out for her affectionately to really initiate non-intercourse, and it can be on the massage table. I just don't want, and it's okay if for a week or two, you want to just make it a massage. But in my experience, and we've talked about this before, while a massage is a very sensual and loving act and it can get you very much more comfortable with physical touch again

and that's all a good thing it's a step removed because of its intention only because the intention is to relax and to soothe not to centrally connect and so because of the different intention it cognitively and emotionally lands differently in the system and so what we want to do is create a physical experience of intimacy between the two of you that feeds the sensual and erotic connection, even without any kind of sexual arousal or intention of sexual arousal, right? So if you do give a massage, I mean, obviously if one of you is hurting and needs deep tissue work, you don't have to do this, but all other things being equal, one way to get in this physical intimacy is to use the massage table, but with the intention of giving sensual touch.

Okay. That's a great idea. Hey, it's Dr. Laura Berman. I've been a sex, love, and relationship therapist for over 30 years. And the main question I always get asked is how the heck do we spice it up in a long-term monogamous relationship? Well, if you want to take your love life, your sex life to the next level, whether you're in a relationship or not, check out my free course on quantum sex. It's going to teach you how to take your sexual response to the next level capable of full body orgasms, how to use sex magic to manifest your dreams, and how to connect on an even deeper level sexually with your partner. Just go to drlauraberman.com and you'll find it right there

on the homepage, the quantum sex free course, check it out. Let me know what you think. But what I was saying to you, Kenny, is that I think from just my history of understanding your dynamics, it will really serve you. It's not mandatory and we can do something different if you're really uncomfortable with it, but it would really serve both of you and your connection and help this flower bud be really feel really held and fertilized if you would initiate at least once a week that sensual physical non-intercourse touch right right do you think you can do that yeah i think i have this you apparently disagree no no no no no no i'm just i'm really listening to dr laura what she's saying i'm not i'm not being critical like

I have a really hard time settling down to go to sleep so um the one night Kenny like was like massaging my head and you know my backside and it was so relaxing I just was like talking to my sleep I it just was great and then the next night I'm like do you think you could do that again you know and I I guess I and he was exhausted so that one night was fantastic it really was but that's not even what i'm talking about i mean that is no i know that's why i was saying to karen like he said i think i've done that but that's not what you're talking about so i'll let you don't stop doing that either no no no no don't stop doing that so it's about the intention right so the intention when you did her before more recently in that particular scenario

the intention was to help soothe her calmer nervous system and help her have a good night's sleep, which is a beautiful, loving gift. And absolutely in her language of love would have said, Kenny loves me. I can feel it, all of it. So we don't want to stop doing that kind of stuff. But what I'm talking about is the sensual and sexual piece of it, which has a different intention. It's not to help her go to sleep, although it probably will help her go to sleep. And you don't have to do it right before bed. In fact, I would suggest maybe not because ideally you're doing each other right you remember you take turns so the goal with this is like you can call it your sensual touchdown right like it's your its intention is to sensually

and erotically communicate at first without even the purpose of physically arousing one another but communicating love and sensual appreciation through touch i mean you've done this before you know what I'm talking about. So it's about really doing it with that intention. That's not to say that what you've been doing isn't perfect and appreciated. We're just adding it, adding in a different energy. Right. Understood. Yeah. Cause we talked about, you know, how in the past I was the initiator and that became habitual. Right. And when I stopped initiating, I think it was Kenny's perception that I was just like finished, done, not interested. And it probably played on his self-confidence. So we're both in this confidence crisis where we're trying to come

back from it. It's what happens to every single couple. Every single one of us goes through periods like this in a long-term relationship where that valley builds between the two of you. And as I've told you before, in your case, it's fantastic because the valley is built between the two of you, but you still really like each other and are invested and feel connected and are communicating and want to give each other what you need and love each other and have all the ingredients you need. Like that's easy peasy for me. All you have to do, I know it doesn't feel easy peasy for you, but that's great because then all you have to do is do it, right? You just have to change the pattern, which I'm not saying is a no brainer, obviously, or you would have already

changed it. But what you're going through with the two steps backwards and the one step forward, and then this stressor comes in and it throws us off our game. This happens to everyone when you're trying to get things back on track. And as I've said to you before, the goal always is not to assume you're always going to be on the road with both hands on the wheel of your relationship and everything's going to be copacetic and you're loving each other the way you both need and you're touching each other the way you both need and you're both feeling loved and connected and initiated and all of those things. It's about knowing that you're going to take your hands off the wheel with life. The car is going to veer off into the cornfields. And the goal is just to

notice sooner rather than later and bring it back to center, which sometimes means detailing the car and filling it with gas and pulling up the GPS and getting your direction going again. Sometimes it just means putting your hands back on the wheel, right? There'll be different levels of reset, depending on how, what's brought you to the cornfields and how long you've been there and how far off course you've gotten. Right. Follow my beautiful metaphor. I loved it actually. Yeah. I'm all right in there. And it's funny, we both got this like monthly unlimited car wash thing. So it's very funny that you. All right, there you go. See. Like Kenny had, ironically, his car. They didn't do it right the first time, the second time or the third time. So when you

said that, I'm like, this is great. Yeah. Yeah. And I was asking Kenny about the retirement thing. I said, Kenny, you know, he had a very solitary position. Like he was in charge and people reported to him, but his office was in New York and his people were in Chicago. So for decades, that's how it worked. And I was explaining to him when I came home from corporate America to raise the girls, I kept going to my desk for five years every morning. Like I better go to the desk. I better go to the desk. And I, it was just a habit I couldn't really break. So I'm, I'm very patient and understanding, but I, I just asked Kenny to explore, like maybe you miss the adulation. Maybe you miss getting paid for being smart. Now you're being smart

and it's just the two of us. And people also say, well, Kenny retired so early. Kenny's 68 years old. He looks great, but you know, it's like, he's tired. Then everyone keeps saying, what do you two do all day? Like, why would you retire so young? What are you guys doing all day? So what I hear in your comment, cause Kenny's like, I don't miss work and I'm totally fine. I love having nothing on the docket for the day, but for some reason you're not fully buying it. So why aren't you? Because of the confidence, I guess, as Kenny said, the Marlin-ness, the Kenny-ness, the Kenny-ness that I know he has inside. So I'm just trying to figure out if he doesn't have answers to why isn't it simple for you to initiate a touching date with me?

I keep going down the rabbit hole. Well, could it be this? It could be that. You're thinking the reason he's not initiating is because of he's not feeling the virility of the working guy with all of that energy that that may be a problem. Yeah. Not the work. Yeah. The corporate guy that figured shit out, that got shit done. You know, now it's like the things that I said, now you're a house husband. I've been a house wife and I never expect people to show up when they do. It's like, oh, it's a bonus. They showed up today. But it's Ken's not used to that. Well, I mean, we'll ask Kenny, but what I can see just from what I know about men like that, if that is indeed who he was in the world, is that it can be a transition to not be in that energy every day. But it's even more of a transition to not be in control, right? So if you had a job where everybody showed up when you told their butts to show up and they got stuff done and you figured out problems and those problems were solved. And now you're at the effect of some guy in charge of a construction company who kind

of sucks and the fish is rotting from the head down and nobody's doing what they're supposed to do. That can lead to a level of frustration and inefficacy that can bleed into everything. I could see that. But let's ask you, Kenny, specifically around this initiation piece. Now, I want to just give the caveat that over the past, there was a while where you guys were doing really well. And then once you moved into the house and all this construction craziness started, and

then I think there was a death of someone close to you, then that was when you started to go into the cornfields. So that's fine, right? But now that you're coming back onto the road, let's ask you, Kenny, as you tap in or tune into like what Marla is saying, is there any part of you that feels like that the, your ability to initiate with her sensual or sexual touch or connection feels awkward, inhibited, or somewhat negatively affected by anything right now? Like, what do you think it is? The easy answer is, I don't know. And, you know, we're both trying to figure that out together and

also separately i'm talking to somebody once a week to try to get back to it you know to a baseline and and he's uh he's an interesting guy i think we've spoke about him in a prior session and i said i didn't think he was you know the right guy and then you made an interesting comment about well you know give him give him some time you know maybe he is but but but the more i talk to him And, you know, we have kind of an odd connection on this point. And he's echoed your sentiments, which is about, you know, it's like starting over. You know, it's like, just make believe you're going on a date with Marla for the first time. You know, it's great, but it's weird.

You know, it's awkward. You don't know what to do. You don't know how to do it. And, you know, you get past it. You know, you just keep going until it works. What is your, just in general, because you're now in your 60s, my guess is you're not on any kind of testosterone therapy, correct? No, I'm not. How are, I'm not even talking about, I mean, yes, about Marla, but in general,

there's a certain kind of sexual energy we walk around in the world with, with thoughts, fantasies, motivation, energy to be sexual. Would you say that that is, I know it doesn't necessarily translate into initiating with her but would you say that the thoughts fantasies and motivation is there for you or does it feel kind of flat because yeah no it's definitely flat and and i would say flat is good because it could off sometimes it's even below flat yeah okay and what's interesting frustrating i mean you know marla said you know once you get your testosterone checked and years ago and the numbers are fine which is good but the result the energy is just really not there how long ago did you last get it checked well i get my blood work

for for that anyway every year just as part of my physical i get to free testosterone t3 t4 whatever it is that's that shandy does that oh she does your two yeah well i ask her to it might T3 and T4 is thyroid. I don't think she does a hormone panel. She doesn't do a hormone panel, but she does test for testosterone. It may be worth talking to her and or going to a urologist who specializes in sexual medicine. and I'll tell you why in a second, to get a complete testosterone hormone panel. Because at your age, there's no way that you have a full bank of testosterone. I don't care how superhuman and fit you are. And that wouldn't be a big deal if you didn't also have the symptoms.

And so what I have found is as a non-MD PhD doctor, but someone who has certainly ushered through thousands of people through the hormonal journey is that the majority of doctors go by what the lab says. So the lab values on testosterone, let's say, might be anything between 20 and 90 is normal, right? But Kenny always had a testosterone of 60 to 70. And now in what's called andropause, which is what you're in, just like women go into menopause, your testosterone is 30, right? So it's still considered by the doctor who says, let me see if your testosterone levels, I will look at the lab values without any discernment or understanding of how hormones work in sexual medicine for men and women and see that it is in the normal range. You are normal, Kenny. You do not have low testosterone, but for Kenny, it's low, right? So when I was working in sexual medicine and training doctors and working under doctors who

were doing this, they were really focused on the symptoms. And if you were in the lower range of normal, they would look at replacing ideally with bioidentical hormone therapies. And the good news for men is there's a popeload of hormonal options for men, unlike for women. So to me, it is worth revisiting them because for two reasons, not only for the sexual energy and desire, but also for general energy and general sense of well-being. Testosterone for men and women plays a significant role in desire, erections, sexual response in general, and general sense of well-being, just that joie de vivre, that enjoyment of life and physical energy. And when we don't have enough testosterone for us, right? Now, if your

testosterone is the far high range of normal, okay, fine. But I guarantee you it's not. There's no way in your late 60s you have high levels of testosterone. And we don't know. That's why I'm always telling people, if you're happy with your sexual response, your desire, your energy, you're in your thirties or forties, like get your hormones tested now. Yeah, no, that that's great advice. And I'll, I'll certainly, I'll mention that to my urologist when I see him next week. I don't know that he's that guy, but he could, if he's not, can help us too. Yeah. We have a good woman that works at the compounding pharmacy who had me on HRT. Oh yeah. That's a great person to ask. So maybe she can help us both out. Cause I had the

T pellet twice. I think I shared that with you, but it was, it was way too strong. So it was a month of being crazy. And then it, I mean, I felt great. I had great energy. My body felt great. I didn't have aches and pains. Yeah. I mean, that's why once again, speaking as a PhD, not an MD, but I am not a fan of the pellets or anything else until you really, really know what level works for you. I'm a big, I myself take testosterone, but I do the injections personal week, teeny tiny. No, it's not a big deal, but that way you only are dealing with a week's arc versus a month. Yeah. It was actually three months. It was like, oh my God. I was like, it was really crazy so yeah you get like now after doing this dose for a year I probably could do the

pellets but I'm not I'm happy doing the injections but once you know after three to six months and you feel like you're at a good level and you know what the level is you might down the road need more but for the time being sure do the pellets for three months once you're clear on what the dose is that you need but yeah so there is the international society for sexual medicine where you can probably find on their website urologists who specialize in sexual medicine who could probably, but also your compounding pharmacist probably works with several urologists because you want to get your hormone. And this is true for every single one of us, male or female, you want to get your hormone. If you're struggling or experiencing low desire,

low energy, difficulty sexually responding, and you're over 38, you should definitely with whatever else you're doing, find a doctor who specializes in sexual medicine or bioidentical hormone therapy and get them to do a full assessment and see if maybe you're a candidate for that. Yeah. Cause you know, going back to what we were talking about a few minutes ago about being out of the workplace and not having that type of energy from the work environment, I think you're, you're likely onto something. And Marlon and I have talked about it, but not, not with this specificity of,

I'm a numbers guy of what you just said, but you know, maybe that's it quite honestly, because ever since I stopped working, I used to work, I used to wake up really early in the morning, go to the gym cash train go to work work while you come home everything was great and i won't say it's happened the day i stopped working but over the last couple years since i stopped working yeah i've been even during covet it wasn't yeah we were in the cornfields yeah yeah just very fatigued yeah lack of energy to do anything like anytime else you want to do this you want to do that my inside voice said no i don't want to do fucking anything to be honest with you and

yeah even this morning marla asked me to you know try to get something that was up like on an elevated platform to get down for a friend and you know of course i said okay and inside it's like serious i gave you the answer no no i know but you know i'm not going to say no and it really it was not like a desire, like a freaking energy. I know. So that's what you have to look at. And that's why I think that's one of the pinnacle signs of low testosterone. And you just by virtue of your age and your symptoms, you probably have it, even though you may be theoretically in the hormonal range, which is tremendous, the range. That's the problem with medicine. You're in the range. Like I took a ton of blood work today and I'm looking at the results.

everything's in range doesn't mean everything's all right but everything's in range and it's frustrating so that's what the doctors look at and i should be happy they're in range and i am are but if you're someone who goes behind the numbers and is not afraid to get well you did go to the one doctor and he told kenny he had heavy metal and he wanted to do some methylation that guy was a freaking quack well this is this is here it is you know it's like well but i've since had blood work on that and it it the results were fine in terms of heavy metals anyway and maybe a little fat blood work was wrong i don't know but but you know this guy was okay heavy metals let's do chelation i'll give you chelation chelation 10 sessions 7500

dollars i go freaking kidding me you know i mean there is something to be said for a heavy metal detox you don't have to spend seven grand you could even do it with diet the medical medium i don't know if you're familiar with him we have all the books yeah we're very familiar with him heavy metal detox yeah yeah yeah but we all have heavy metal y'all have it yeah we all have it but it will help you feel better for sure it will help you feel better if you cleanse yourself that way and also there's all this weird stuff genomically about how much you methylate like how much you clear heavy like my son for instance doesn't one of my kids doesn't clear toxins from his system easily so he's more you know you could go all the way into the weeds but I would start

with testosterone yeah yeah keep it simple I mean we were talking about you mentioned the control And I, it's hard to release control. It's hard to let go of control and feel connection at the same time because Ken's environment was pretty fixed. He knew what to expect each day for decades, you know, and as at home, people say, oh, what's your routine? I'm like, why have one? Because it always gets flipped on its side.

So I'd rather just go with the flow and figure it out as I go. But I think that we've both been on autopilot way too much. And that's okay. But now you're going to create some routines around intimacy. You've already created the routine around physical affection. Now you're going to create the routine around sensual and erotic touch and connection on a regular basis. And you're going to look into the medical physiologic things that could help you.

and you're going to play together without the pressure of the chaos in your home. And we're going to see where we land. The one thing I did, I did want to mention, Kenny, I asked him how his session went. I said, you know, you don't have to tell me. And he's like, you know, it just shouldn't be this hard. And I said, I don't think that's a positive mantra because we all have to work at, you know, where we are right now. We're no, we're changing.

I've certainly changed. He's changed. we change circumstances change or there's a lot that's different so i said kenny it's everyone that doesn't give up has to work at it a lot of couples just are resign and be like you know what talking about it shouldn't be this hard between the two of you or it shouldn't be this hard with your therapist which did you mean kenny yeah it shouldn't be this hard to connect well you know The whole thing surrounding our disconnect. In theory, you would think after all these years married and in the storybooks and the movies, they lead you to think it shouldn't be a struggle.

But that's why I'm saying to you, and hopefully you tell me if you feel any differently after this conversation, that this is universal in couples. Yeah, no. And listen to your point. We got the hard stuff down pat. It's not like it's not worth the effort. Of course it's worth the effort, but it's, it's still, you know, just speaking for me, notwithstanding the conscious thought behind what to do in terms of the reconnection or the connect, the connectivity, the physical connectivity, the touch, whatever, it still requires a lot of effort and that's, that's what I'm saying. it just shouldn't be that hard it should be for someone who for two people who are as committed and as much in love as we are with one another this stuff just shouldn't be that hard and that's

what i mean by that that's all but it is and i accept and i'm up to the challenge i'm not running away from it it's taken a little longer to implement than i would have thought but that's why i say it shouldn't be this hard yeah i always say take your shitter and throw it away because I should. And the only reason I say that because you can think whatever you want, obviously, it's and it doesn't necessarily impede on your willingness to resolve it. But because it creates the only thing that should any sentence that starts with should I should they should we should inherent whether we mean to or not. And we usually don't. It elicits a feeling of shame. yeah that's inherent to any should and there is no should i have ever heard that should be there you know what i mean like you can just without any and i don't let anyone including myself every

time i hear myself say well i should i'm like nope put the shitter away the shitter is shitty it's just going to make you feel crappy and it's not true there is no should right in the ways i've already described to you. I don't have to review all the ways in which you're a totally normal couple and you're doing even better than most of them do because of all the positive connection you have underpinning it all, right? So should just leads you to self-judgment or the judgment of someone else, shame and guilt, which is the crappiest motivator on the planet, like seriously the crappiest motivator. And it's not at all a sustainable motivation, right? If you say, I should go to the gym, I'm a fat pig, I'm a slug, you know, whatever it

is that people say to themselves about their should to go work out. That does not, maybe it'll get them to the gym once, but it is not a sustainable motivation to work out, right? Self-judgment and guilt and shame are the shittiest motivators there are. So no shoulds here. No more shoulds. Don't should all over yourself. Get it?

I say it to myself because when I hear it, I'm like, stop. You know, I know better, but I mean, you can say whatever you want, but I'm just saying, be aware that you're shitting on yourself when you showed yourself. And it's not necessary and it's not true because there is no between the two of you. And it isn't easy, as we've talked about before. I have yet to meet a couple who has been together for 30, 40, 50 years and ask them, what is the secret? And the very first thing every single one of them will say, there are ups and downs and it takes hard work, but whatever wisdom, there are ups and downs and it takes hard work and commit whatever their personal wisdom is every single time.

Right, right. That's where you are. You're getting back on the road out of the cornfields. Couldn't go through the car wash, detail it. All right. So you have your marching orders, urologist for hormones, erotic touching date, continuing once a week, continuing the alarms on the phone for physical affection, and then we'll see where we are in a month.

Thank you so much. Thanks, Dr. Lowe. So thank you so much. We're so grateful. You're so welcome. Enjoy the house and the first month of summer. I went to the doctor, said I'm crazy for your love Wrote me a prescription, but there's no cure for a cry