Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - How to Get Out of the Friendzone

Episode Date: May 19, 2021

On this episode of the “Language of Love,” Dr. Berman talks to a woman in a 35-year relationship. Now that their kids are grown and out of the house, she and her husband are struggling to connect and figure out their new relationship as partners outside of their roles as parents. How can empty-nesters lean into their new freedom and figure out their identities as lovers outside of being parents and teammates in raising a family? Next, Dr. Berman talks to a woman who wants to know how to figure out if a new partner is sexually compatible before you even enter the bedroom. If your kink is BDSM, how do you find a partner who shares the same desires? What is the right way to broach your kink to new partners, and how soon is too soon? Dr. Berman weighs in. Then, Dr. Berman tackles the subject of “friends with benefits.” How can you get your friend to view you in a more romantic light, and is there really such a thing as the ‘friendzone’? Dr. Berman also gives advice on how to ‘shoot your shot’ to a divorcee who is dating for the first time since her marriage ended, and is struggling to figure out how to put herself out there and meet guys without seeming desperate or being too forward. Should you wait for a guy to approach you, or do men like it when women are assertive and ask them out? Dr. Berman reveals what she thinks and gives advice to daters who are scared to put themselves out there. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm Dr. Laura Berman, a sex and relationship therapist. And for the past three decades, I've been helping people learn how to love and be loved better. That's what we're doing here on The Language of Love, where I get to answer calls and emails from people just like you. My goal with The Language of Love is to help you discover more meaningful emotional and physical intimacy and to help you build more awareness of how precious and sacred your sexuality really is. Be sure to email me or reach out with your very own love-sex relationship questions, and I might just answer them live on the air. It's time we all become fluent in the language of love.

Hi, this is Wendy. I guess it's more of a, we go into seasons. You know, I've been with my husband for 35 years, married for 33. and you know we have our children are grown I think at this point in our life I don't even know how we got through it we just did it we just kind of fumbled through everything but I think the best thing was we were so busy with the kids we just didn't overthink things and we just got through it as a team and that's how I knew I picked the right person because you know we didn't battle a lot over major things and we kind of knew what position on the team that we were

you know who was in who was pitching who was catching some days who was first base second base if you want to use baseball as a term so we kind of changed roles as as our kids grew up but now all our kids are gone everything's great we have more money now um and you know we both travel for our work which i think has also really helped us grow in our relationship but you know we just have so many goals to achieve and now with more time together um we're still going in different directions. So we have a great relationship, but I need to hone in on more purposeful things. So I'm trying to figure out a balance between growing in a different direction with him. I don't know if this is sounding too complicated or not. No, it's not complicated at

all. It's a really common question, you know, especially as you move to that empty nest phase, because you're absolutely right for any couple that are parenting, you know, it's their 24 hour need machines and the focus when you have children goes from being like totally focused on each other and your lives together to being totally focused on the child or the children you know which is both good and bad I think some relationships make the children too much of a priority and then that can cause problems once the kids are gone you're looking at each other and saying like who the hell are you it doesn't sound like that's what's happening in your relationship but what it sounds like to me is that you know you guys are both super goal-oriented and really articulate

about the new challenges you want to take on, whether it was around parenting or now in this new phase in life professionally. But I think you can apply this to your relationship life and sit down, you know, and make some real relationship goals. What is it that you'd like to create in your relationship now? You have a brand new landscape without kids in the house, you know, both financially, emotionally, and space, you know, and also spatially, you know, they're not in the house anymore hopefully they're not still living at home so that gives you an opportunity what is it that you know you've thought a lot about what you want your life to look like professionally or maybe even financially now but how do you want your life to look in terms

of your love relationship do you want to travel together do you want to go on adventures together do you want to have time at home together do you want to have more sex do you want to have more adventurous sex? Do you want to explore fantasies? What is it that you want to create in your love life with all of this freedom now? Especially if you're both busy professionally, really carving out that time for each other in your schedules, like concretely, where there are no distractions. I really think it's important, if possible, to do that every single day. Most couples don't talk about things other than the logistics of their lives for more than 15 minutes a week, much less more than that.

And I think it's so important to carve out that technology-free quality time, including if you have to put it in your schedules, and to carve out big pockets of time on a weekly basis, if you can, to have sex, to have fun, to play, to go on adventures or whatever your goals are. I could write a whole book with the questions I would have for Dr. Laura, but I'm going to try and narrow it down to one. I know that I've

experienced this and I know that the women and the friends that I know have experienced this as well. My question is, what's the best way for us to kind of gauge someone who we're seeing their kink level, especially for someone who, for example, we may like something like BDSM. How do we broach the topic before we get intimate to find out where they are at? Yeah, that's a great question. And it begs the larger question, right, like of when to get intimate. And there's, you know, there's certainly no rules, you know, it's not like a three day rule. But in general, I think talking about intimacy, not just any, you know, special preferences you have, but talking about physical intimacy in general is super important before the fact. And, you know, what I like to

advise people to do is as soon as you're clear that there's a real chemistry there, you know, maybe the first time you kiss or when you're, you know, it's clear that it's moving in that direction. And this may be on the first date, the second date, whenever you say, you know, you make clear first and foremost, what your policy is, you know, or your preferences around even when to have sex, right? So, you know, maybe you say, and I think this is an important way, if you're looking for a long-term monogamous relationship, let's say, then you want to make that clear and say, listen, I just want you to know, I find you really attractive. I definitely think there's chemistry there. I want to see where this goes, but I want you to know that what I'm

really looking for is a long-term monogamous relationship. So I don't have sex with people until we're both clear that neither one of us want to date anyone else and that we're really want to try to see if we can move in this direction, right? If it's about those sexual preferences and you are looking for a long-term monogamous relationship, then you would see what they feel about that first part and then move on to, you know, okay, great. And I also want to tell you a little bit, you know, about me sexually, because I do have some unique preferences that are really important to me and an important part of compatibility for me. And here's what they are. And you just like, because you want a partner who is capable of talking about it,

is good at that kind of communication, and is going to be cool with it. If monogamy isn't an issue for you, and you know, you just are looking for partners who really jive with your preferences, then you just do that. Before you get sexual together, you just say, listen, same thing. I'm really attracted to you. I can see there's some chemistry. I just wanted to tell you a little bit about who I am sexually. I think it's really important and I find it's really valuable to have these conversations before you find yourself in the situation where you are actually being sexual together. And talking about these things outside the bedroom scenario always goes better than trying to bring it up in the moment. Hi, this is Heidi Barker. My question is advice on moving out

of the friend zone when you've been, you know, good friends with people for a long time, maybe friends with benefits, or occasional benefits. When you see both sides, if you see someone a certain way, and they want more, you know, all of a sudden, or if you're thinking, I might want more with someone as well. What is the best way to approach that conversation without jeopardizing the friendship? Tricky, tricky, tricky. I can't promise you you won't jeopardize the friendship. That's the most important thing is that before you dive into this moving out of the friend zone, you really want to get clear if you're willing to potentially sacrifice the friendship because that very well may happen, right? That's one of the risks. And you know,

this is kind of controversial to people when I say it, but I'm going to say it because I've been doing this for over 25 years and I know it's true, that it's almost non-existent that you have two heterosexual people in a heterosexual friendship where one or the other of them isn't wishing for more at some point of time. And certainly if you've been in the friends with benefits zone, You know, that's definitely true. And I do find that a lot of people enter into the friends with benefits zone, let's call it, with one of you, you know, hoping that it will become more. You know, you're thinking, okay, we'll just have benefits now, but maybe they'll realize they're in love with me, or maybe this will move into something else. And so it sounds like you're kind of already

in that place, Heidi. So if you don't mind me asking, you don't have to give the answer, But is it you, I'm assuming, that knows that you want to move out of the friend zone and into the relationship zone, but you're not sure how he feels? Well, it's interesting because I had a good friend wrote to me about this, a good male friend. He said, you know, I'd like for us to date. Like, I want to take you out. I want us to date.

And I said no, because I didn't want to jeopardize the friendship. And, you know, he was actually quite hurt, but we were able to stay friends. And I'm actually glad I made that decision. But now, yes, there is someone that I have in mind that I'm like, you know, I'm taking a different look at him now all of a sudden. And I'm just like, you know, the timing might be right. We always had timing issues in terms of being together and the time might be, you know, OK for us. But I'm a little worried about, you know, jeopardizing friendship for the same reason I said no to my male friend before. Yeah, and you might, but nothing risked, nothing gained. So you want to take a really good look at it and be clear that it's not just coming from a place of pandemic loneliness or moving to a new place, that you really do think that you could make a go of a relationship with this guy because his friendship is obviously important to you and you don't want to risk it unless he has the qualities and characteristics and personality and life that would be a good match for you. for you. And if that's true, and it's not coming from a place of loneliness or loss or grief or fear, but it really is authentically that you think this might be a good match for you, then

you go to him and you say, listen, I want to confide something in you and I hope you'll hold it tenderly, but I've really been thinking about you in a new way. And I want you to know that if you don't feel the same way, I will handle that with the utmost grace. And I don't want to sacrifice our friendship and I won't make things awkward, but I really wanted to let you know how I feel and see if maybe you felt the same way. My name's Brendan. The question I have for you is when you were interviewed by Lewis Howes, there was five things that you talked about so that you can discover your self-worth. And I'd love for you to touch upon number five,

which is marvel at your inner power. Why do you think that's so important? It really caught my eye. So I'd love to get your point of view on that. Well, you know, the key to really being in a healthy and beautiful love relationship that we all desire doesn't ever start with the other person. You know, yes, part of it is finding someone

who is a match for you on multiple levels. But where it really starts and what allows you to find and attract in and be attracted to the match is to love yourself fully and completely. You know, that sounds like, you know, mamsy-pamsy, like love yourself, but I really, truly mean it. And the question is like, well, how the hell do you do that, right? It's not just, you know, there's a difference between self-esteem and self-worth. Self-esteem is, I love myself because I'm kind or I'm great at this sport or this activity.

I'm funny or I'm pretty, whatever it might be, right? And that's what I think a lot of us in the little self-esteem programs in childhood, you know, maybe got, right? But that's very different than self-worth. Self-worth is I am worthy of love simply because I exist and I am the unique, profound, immensely irreplaceable, gorgeous, unique light that I am in the universe. When I talk about the powerhouse that you are, what I have found is someone who's moving toward middle age and had plenty of self-esteem for most of my life, but not as much self-worth

until I would say about 10 years ago. And that's when I really started recognizing the difference is that it's really hard not to realize how unbelievably lovable you are when you are fully connected to your higher power. You know, whatever that is, God, universe, spirit, pick your perspective. But once you start really tapping into the magic

that you're capable of doing and manifesting what you most desire, in moving with your body's frequency. That's a lot about what I wrote about in my last book, Quantum Love, which was really a big part of discovering this for myself, is the systems that really tuning into your body's frequency and communicating with the quantum field and really accessing the science behind the secret or the law of attraction or God or whatever you want to call it. But when you start to tap into how freaking powerful each of us is, it's really hard not to recognize how lovable you are and how powerful you are and how whole you are fully with yourself,

you know, and that that other person is icing, sprinkles, decoration, you know, compliment to your already delicious cake. And once you do that, you're like a freaking magnet for beautiful relationships of all types, including love relationships. And what we'll find is that every single one of us will be attracted to and attract in people that are at the same frequency that we are energetically, beyond our conscious awareness. And this has been proven in quantum physics and in all the new science that's coming out that we can only perceive those things vibrating in harmony with our own vibrations so as you as you work on that yourself you raise your own energy and your energetic vibration and then all of a sudden you start being a match

for a higher value partner if that makes sense if you're like the millions of women out there and the people who love them whose sex lives have been negatively affected by chronic urinary tract infections, I wanted to tell you about a product line I discovered called Eucora. Because people don't talk about this enough. UTIs can happen due to menopause, pregnancy, so many other factors. And so many women struggle with this and go to the doctor repeatedly and then end up avoiding sex as a result. Uquora not only offers UTI relief and proactive urinary tract health supplements, but they have a whole learning center on their website with research and information for you. So get proactive about urinary tract health with Uquora.

Right now, Uquora is offering 20% off when you go to Uquora.com slash love, but hurry because it's a limited time offer. Go to Uquora.com slash love and get 20% off your order. that's uqora.com slash love i'm lady and i thank you so much for having me on stage it's an honor to ask my question to dr laura so i'm a mom i'm a divorcee for about five years now i wanted to give myself like enough time to heal and make sure i'm partnering with someone who's compatible and not making the same mistakes this time around i'm just wondering how to approach dating and I'm wondering specifically if it matters as a woman to kind of put myself out there or should I wait to be approached. I shot my shot so to speak once with like a colleague who I thought

liked me from some like cues that he was giving but it became super awkward because he never responded to me and I did feel like a bit scolded after that so it made me like never want to shoot my shot again. Ultimately I feel like I'm stepping into my like femininity and I'm looking to attract and not chase. So I'm just wondering if you could give some advice on how to approach dating as a woman in 2021, it would be greatly appreciated. Well, first of all, let me applaud you for taking that time because so few people do that. And I feel so strongly about that, that it's so important after, especially after a serious relationship, a long-term relationship to give yourself a chance to not only heal most importantly, but to re-equilibrate and kind of reset yourself so

that you don't make the same mistakes twice and that you really, you know, recognize and can integrate the lessons from that last relationship, what worked, what didn't work, both on their parts in terms of what you want out of love and on your part, because it's always a dance that we're doing together when there are relationship issues. So that is a great place to start. And also because you're a mom, you know, I was a single mom as well, 18 years. I've been married 18 years now to my final husband. But, you know, it's important when you're a mom, a new level, I think, of responsibility, both in who you date, but also not bringing someone into your personal life and certainly not to meet your child until you're both kind of clear that this person is a

keeper. I mean, you don't have to be ready to get married, but, you know, kind of like I was talking about earlier, you know, you want to make sure that you're both on the same page about wanting to be in a long-term monogamous relationship, that you're really going to give it a go, that neither one of you are dating anyone else, that you can tell that this person has integrity and by the way they act and they do what they say they're going to do and they be where they say they're going to be. I just want to mention that since you mentioned you're a single mom. Now, in terms of meeting someone, I get that you want to be approached and also maybe you're a little gun shy because when you did try to approach someone, you got shot down, right?

I don't think that there's a right or wrong way. It depends on your personality and your style For some women, it's really easy for them to approach potential partners and to let them know. For others, it's a lot harder. And, you know, I think it's especially hard for guys now, especially heterosexual guys, because of God bless the Me Too movement. You know, I'm a huge supporter of it. But the shadow side, and there's always a shadow side in everything that's light-filled, is that, you know, there's a real hesitance, I think, on a lot of men's part to approach in a work-related situation or a social situation because they don't want to say or do the wrong thing. They don't want to misread the signals. And also, I think in general, it's, you know, being a mother of three boys, I can tell you, it's freaking scary approaching a woman.

You know, you're the one that's kind of taking the emotional risks, just like you did, lady, when you approached that guy, and no one wants to be rejected. So I think there's a balance between, you know, not necessarily being the initiator, but also kind of waving in the one that you may be interested in by flirting with them or letting them know that you're interested through more subtle or overt means. That said, I think there is a level of attracting love into your life not unlike what I was addressing with Brendan a little earlier. It is all I have found about energy. I'm plugging this book just because I love it. And it's, you know, I've written nine of them. And this is by far my favorite and most powerful quantum love. And it will show you one of the most powerful things I find in whatever you want to create in life, but especially around love, whether you're in a relationship or looking for love, is to get super duper clear, not necessarily in what qualities you want that person to

have. Of course, there are core qualities, you know, you want them to be honorable, you want them to be attractive to you, you want, you know, whatever those things are, right? I'm not saying you shouldn't have any standards, but what you want to focus on most importantly, if you really want to call love into your life in a more creative feminine way, which I think you do, is to focus on how you want to feel in love, because that's really what sets the energetic frequency that will call those experiences and people into your life that will be a match.

So what I recommend, and if you read the book, it will show you how this works scientifically as well, is that you choose five feelings that you most want to feel when you have that perfect person waking up next to you every day. How do you feel? You know, for some, it may be passionate or playful or cherished or safe or adventurous or energized or, you know, connected, right? Like you choose five of your top feelings that you would imagine in the ideal scenario with a mate

that you would be feeling, you know, in your love together. And then I want you to just really cultivate those feelings. It's really fun to do it one at a time, right? So let's say one of your feelings is playful, right? Or sensual or whatever, but let's just say playful because that'll work well since you have a kid, which makes it easier to be playful, is that you take a week and you focus every single day on seeking out opportunities to be playful, being in the energy of play. So you walk by a swing

setting, you jump on, you do something really spontaneous, you act silly at work, you just are in the energy of play. And what you will start to find is that all of a sudden people, opportunities, situations will start showing up in your life that match playfulness, including men. And then, you know, you move on to the next feeling and you start cultivating those feelings separate from being in a relationship. And what you will find is that more and more people, including men, will start showing up in your life that are and will be attracted to you for those qualities that you're really cultivating.

And if we can be in the feelings that we most want to experience in our lives, 51% of the time, you will be astounded at what starts to show up. I mean, it really is magic. The other thing that I would say to you, one of the most, a really dear friend of mine who I respect immensely as a clinician and as a teacher is a woman named Catherine Woodward Thomas. She, I think, is probably most famous via Gwyneth Paltrow because she wrote The Conscious Uncoupling, you know, that Gwyneth and her ex did. But she also wrote a beautiful book and does courses, I think she may even have a course coming up, about calling in the one. And I have sent so many of my clients and friends to this course, and it really works.

I mean, she incorporates a lot of what I'm just talking about into the process, but she also really addresses getting whole with yourself, falling in love with yourself. You know, all the things I'm talking about, she really does beautifully, and it really is calling in the one. So I think that's what you're asking for, ultimately, lady, is that you want to call in the one. You don't want to go out and pursue the one. And you don't do that by sitting on the couch and hoping someone knocks on your door. You're not doing it passively, but you are doing it emotionally and energetically. And it's really powerful. Hi, my name is Raquel.

My question is, has there been a relationship in your life where you didn't have to embody the therapist, where you got your needs met? and did that change the way that you served others and how did that affect the way that you served others? Ah, interesting. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I was just talking to a girlfriend about this the other day. We were talking about friendships and relationships and I really know the pivot point for me. You know, I would say about 15 or 20 years ago, I looked around And all of my friends and even my ex-husband, like everyone I got into a relationship with, which, you know, I'm a recovering codependent, so this makes perfect sense. But I, in order to feel safe, I needed to be needed, you know, because my story was, if you need me, you won't leave me. So I was a huge, I was a major energy match for Broken Little Birds.

and most of the people in my life, my friends, my boyfriends, my ex-husband, you know, were hot messes in their lives and I was the one that was the therapist for them just like I was for my parents and that was how I always kept myself safe emotionally and relationally and trauma of my divorce and going through the healing from that and even several years after that, it took me a while to realize that pattern and to make a conscious decision to change it. And I really did that. I made a conscious decision, not that I wanted to, you know, reject all of my friends or

my community, but that I really wanted to call people into my life who were already whole, who I didn't need to take care of, and who could teach me things that were wiser than me, that were more whole than me, that could hold me, you know? and I really set that intention and as with these things you know from a quantum love perspective as I really moved into that intention and held it with integrity and not from a negative place but from a really positive place I started meeting all sorts of fabulous people you know I happened upon like an old friend of mine came up to me and said you know I just joined this group where they call themselves the fire starters because they're doing Danielle Laporte's book, The Fire

Starter, which I had just read and was bowled over by. So I was like, can I join? Can I join? And those women became my circle and they were all so much wiser than I was and had so much to teach me. And the same thing with my husband. I really set that intention of my dating life that I don't want to be, I mean, I'll certainly be a caretaker, but I do not want to be the caretaker. I want to be really in my feminine and not that the feminine isn't a caretaker, but I want to be in my flow. I want someone else to contain me. I want someone to protect me.

I want someone to support me as much as I do them. And that has definitely been my husband now, I guess, 18 years. It's not always easy because I do tend to, you know, want to be in fix, manage and control a lot. That's my kind of default when I'm stressed or anxious. and he holds me accountable to that, you know, because he is so firm in his clarity and in his own power that, you know, neither one of us want to be controlled. But my tendency when I get stressed or anxious is to be controlling. He is the only man that hasn't let me control him,

which has been a blessing because it holds me, you know, keeps me conscious about that that's not where my safety lies. So I think it's really a decision and an intention and then calling that energy in, but it requires a real surrender. Because I think any of us who are coaches or therapists, like I was saying, we're all wounded healers. We get into that not only to heal ourselves, but there's a certain kind of power that comes from being the healer in the relationship or the fixer-upper or the rescuer or whatever. And a great book if you want to explore that more is by Gay and Kitty Hendricks, who are a beautiful couple. They wrote a beautiful book called Conscious Loving,

which I think is gorgeous. Such a powerful kind of representation of how to kind of move in a really conscious and holistic way in your relationship where you're not in that rescuer mode. It's so beautiful to be in the energy of this group and to hear all of your questions and to know that, like, I know that everybody listening

is relating to the questions because the questions you ask are universal. You know, how do I find love? How do I keep love? How do I grow love? To me, you know, that's why we're here, all of us trying to figure out how to love and be loved better.

And that's why I'm here too. So I feel so much grace and love for all of you and so much appreciation for you spending this time with me and trusting me with your questions and holding the answers. and I hope that I've given you some things to think about and some guidance to follow. You know, we'll be doing more of these.

Make sure to check out the podcast and keep coming to our clubhouses. I'm excited to get to know all of you even more. My heart, you're just like my sport car, driving fast, you're going fast, when I'm sitting by you, we get high, this song is about you.