Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - How to Menopause with Tamsen Fadal

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Did you know menopause comes with 34 symptoms—yet most women are never told what to expect? Instead, they’re left guessing, struggling, and wondering if it’s all just in their heads. In this episode of The Language of Love Conversations, I sit down with Tamsen Fadal, Emmy Award-winning journalist and menopause advocate, to get real about what’s happening to our bodies and why so many women feel unprepared. Her new book, How to Menopause: Take Charge of Your Health, Reclaim Your Life, and Feel Even Better Than Before, is changing the conversation—because menopause isn’t the end. It’s a new beginning. Tamsen shares her personal journey through menopause, from the initial confusion and misdiagnosis to becoming a leading voice in the menopause movement. She discusses the societal stigma surrounding menopause, the flawed research that silenced a generation of women, and how she’s working to change the narrative. If you or someone you love is going through menopause,  or you’ve ever felt dismissed, confused, or alone in your menopause journey, this episode is for you. Tamsen’s story is one of resilience, advocacy, and hope, and her message is clear: you can feel better than ever before. We dive into: The truth behind the Women’s Health Initiative study that misled an entire generation about hormone therapy How to recognize perimenopausal symptoms—because it’s not just hot flashes! The 34 symptoms of menopause and why so many women go undiagnosed What doctors should be asking you (and how to advocate for yourself if they don’t) Hormone therapy: who it’s for, who it’s not for, and what the latest science says Non-hormonal strategies for managing menopause—nutrition, strength training, sleep, and stress management How menopause affects your sex life (and what you can do about it) The cultural stigma around aging and how we can redefine what it means to thrive after 40 If you're ready to take control of menopause, pre-order Tamsen Fadal’s book, How to Menopause: Take Charge of Your Health, Reclaim Your Life, and Feel Even Better Than Before today. For deeper insights, watch The M Factor, her must-see documentary on menopause. Join the conversation—follow Tamsen on Linkedin, visit her website and connect with a community breaking the silence on menopause. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman. And for the past 30 years, I've been helping people just like you learn to love and be loved better. Here on the Language of Love Conversations, I'm talking to some of the world's most influential and revolutionary experts, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, and celebrities about love, sex, and relationships from a mind, body, and spirit perspective. And that way, my goal is to awaken your mind, body, and soul. It's time to become fluent in the language of love.

Pamzen Fidel is an Emmy Award-winning journalist, author, documentary filmmaker, and social media's midlife mentor. After more than three decades as a news anchor, she made the decision to pivot her career towards women's advocacy. and now she sees herself as a best friend a guide a one-stop resource that everything women need to thrive during menopause and beyond she has a new book out in addition to an amazing documentary she did called the m factor she now has a book coming out called how to menopause take charge of your health, reclaim your life, and feel even better than before. Can't wait to share the wisdom of Tamsyn Fadal with you on the language of love. Tamsyn Fadal, I'm so glad to have you on the language of love and to dive into a topic so near and dear to my heart and so many,

not just other women, but men too. We have a lot of male listeners as well. And I think all of you are going to find this conversation really compelling and important about menopause. Tamsen has a new book, Out to Menopause, Take Charge of Your Health, Reclaim Your Life, and Feel Even Better Than Before, which I 100% agree you can. But most people not only don't realize that, Tamsin. They don't realize even how to navigate. First of all, all hell is breaking loose in their bodies and minds, and nobody knows how to navigate it. We're going to get into why that is in a second. And even if they do figure out how to navigate this major transition, they can't imagine feeling better than ever before, which I 100% agree with you. You can.

And so I'm so excited to dive into this with you. Thank you. You know what? I love talking about it. And it's funny when I was thinking about that, I'm like, can you feel better or can you feel better than before? And I was like, you know what? I actually feel better than before.

So we're going to do that because I want people to have hope and not feel like, oh, gosh, after you get through all these symptoms and all this, there's what's left for me. So I really wanted it to be a positive because I think that you and I can attest to the fact that it is. were both in it and have attended to it and have, and like you, I've, you know, I've been through the fire with, with learning about it. So, and I think you're the same way, obviously, because you wrote this book where heal, learn, teach people. So as you do your own healing and learning, you're now teaching others, which I think is so great. I remember meeting, this has

always stuck with me. And this was, I probably learned this in my thirties way before I was in the menopausal transition. But I had a friend and a colleague who's a Chinese medicine doctor, and he once told me that for a woman's entire life, her qi, her life force, is flowing inward from all directions toward her womb. But the reason the menopausal transition is such a disruption is because literally the qi, the life force, is changing direction. So that now it's feeding the brain and the spirit and that we're really designed to become these wise amazing very sexy and juicy very sexy but amazing mentors and wise women and that's why the chi is changing directions but that whole crazy transition is quite a ride if you don't know how to surf it so well especially

they don't know what's coming. You don't know what's coming. I think that's what it is. Listen, we have been through so much as women. So for me to think like this is going to knock us out and we're not going to get through this, that's not the case. It's just that when you don't know what's happening, I think that's 80% of what it is. And just no one told you all these different things. And if you knew to look out for them or you knew that this is probably what it is and you weren't playing whack-a-mole with symptoms, I think we could get there so we can get to that other area faster, which is feeling good about it all. Cause I do feel, I don't know about you, but I feel very different than I did when I was,

when I was younger. And I, I feel great at who I, who I am mentally and, and who I'm becoming. Yeah. There's, I mean, really when you think about it, evolution hasn't caught up with modern medical technology. Like we weren't, we didn't evolve to live that far past our reproductive years and caveman times or even in the before penicillin living to 60 was like the equivalent of 95 today but thanks to modern medical technology and healthy lifestyles we're expected to live to a hundred most of us you take care of yourself so you're going to live half your life in menopause and you should live in vibrantly so i really liked your story i feel like you know just how you came upon doing diving into this because you're really coming at it not

only as a girlfriend's guide kind of thing but a journalist yeah and because of your own journey so let's start there yeah absolutely i was a journalist in new york city for the last 15 years and before that all all over the country doing news and menopause was nothing we really talked about i mean you know you did i had study i did a study on heart i did a study on if wine is good for you. One week is good. One week it's bad. Now it's bad. But I was a news person. That's what I did and entertainment and all sorts of stuff. But I never heard about this conversation, never discussed this conversation in 2002 when the Women's Health Initiative and those headlines came out that I know that we're going to address. I really wasn't in the mix of all of that in terms

of like any kind of health studies. And so one night I was delivering the news, the evening news and wound up feeling something was just really off and I didn't think I was going to be able to get through that next segment of news. And I said out loud, we were sitting on these high stools. I said, if I fall over, someone catch me. And the sports anchor was like, are you okay? I felt my ears ringing, my heart racing, the scene, crazy. And I had felt like this on and off hot thing, but I'd never felt quite like this before I got off the set. I wound up going and it was fine. Like after 15 minutes, 20 minutes, I wound up going to see my general practitioner. And then I was like, well, maybe it's stress. And then I went to my therapist. I wound up being put on

Lexapro, long story short. And then eventually went to my OB and wound up getting a note in my patient portal that said, in menopause, any questions? That's how you learn. Ask a reporter if they have any questions, which is kind of humorous, right? Now that I look back all these years later, that's kind of a funny, well, it wasn't funny at the time. It wasn't funny at the time, right? Yeah, it was definitely not. It wasn't funny for a long time, but it's funny now to like think like any questions. And I really, that's when I went down that rabbit hole and I started looking around trying to figure out what was going on with me primarily. And then figuring out that like, nope, there was no answers to anything. Like it was most insane thing. Like

you can Google something and really not have a lot of results. And I remember screenshotting in a long time at the like, it's like a hundred thousand results. It was something stupid, ridiculous. And so I started that deep dive and that led me to working on it using journalism, really, and I'm working on it in a larger sense of the word as documentary. And so we wound up with some co-producers releasing a documentary in October of last year called The M Factor, which is exciting because it sparked a lot of conversation about it. And at the same time, I had started working on this book because I thought of, you know, being so many people that are so smart in all these different areas. And I want to like share their information.

It took me a long time to figure out what I wanted to say and what my message was. And really, I think that my message was advocating for yourself and giving women the tools they needed to do that. And so I think of it as a toolkit of information. I call it brain fog proof because, you know, television and, you know, media. And I was like, soundbites, man. I can't I can't remember anything else at this point. And so I just wanted it to be a guide for women, not a doctor, but somebody that's interviewed a lot of them at this point. And a lot of women's stories, thousands and thousands of women, and try to pull together what most of their questions were and what they needed answers to. So you're really diving into the most common questions and you're identifying, looking at this and how to manage 34 different symptoms of menopause.

I think that's important, especially even just thinking about your story. And I hear this from, you know, I've been doing this for 30 years. We were talking about this before we started recording. And the way that even today, I mean, I've been screaming about the I'm so thrilled about this kind of menopause movement that we are entering. And you've been a big part of that because it's been lonely over here, you know, from the rooftop. I'm sorry. I know. I'm just glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. But the problem is that, so I hear it every day, even still, that people are like, I'm

going to the cardiologist. You know, you have those symptoms, right, of like heart palpitations, ringing in your ears, feel like you're going to faint. If you don't realize that that can start happening even in perimenopause as early as late 30s, but certainly into your 40s, you know, obviously you don't want to just assume you want to be checked out. But I find that so often women go from doctor to specialist, to specialist, to specialist. Now I'm going to someone for my eye. Now I'm going to, I'm having these weird skin shape. Why is my hair falling out?

And they think they have some horrible disease and they're being, going through all of these tests. Yeah. I mean, I even had this woman who was wearing like heart, those heart monitors for 24 hours or 48 hours, like all, and she was going through menopause. It's unbelievable to me. And it's, it's so unfair. And I just, I guess what I started to see, you know, not from a medical standpoint, but from like, for just for me looking at women and thinking sometimes I would see

somebody older. I'm like, what is she so stressed out about? Like, what did she talk about? And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's me. Or what, you know, because after some things change, like it wasn't just what happened inside the doctor's office, right? Like that's one fraction of it, but other things like mindset and the community I'm around. And for me, I was dating in perimenopause unbeknownst to me. And I got married. I was like, I'm a menopausal bride. Like I got married with menopause, you know, and then like had no sex drive. I started to like really feel for this compassion of what we were all going through. And I think that's what got me so, I don't know, immersed in all of it. Like, did you always know you wanted to

advocate for menopause? I'm like, what? but i knew this once i realized the problem in news on the media you identify what's going on and you try to have a solution and in this one we identified what it is but then you identified again and again because for everybody it's so individualized and so i just wanted to provide as many different options as possible i lost my mom to breast cancer when i was young and if she were here today, she might not be a candidate for hormone therapy. So do we just shrug? Like what, what are her options? So I just wanted to do that and put this book together for women that just kind of feel like they don't have that, you know, that, that lifeline.

What are some of the key, I know there's a million of them in there, but what are some of the key takeaways? Like, let's even start there because I do get this question a lot. And you and I were starting to talk about before we, you know, we were chatting before we started recording about the Women's Health Initiative, that big study that came out, I think it was 2001 or 2, I don't remember when it was, the Women's Health Initiative study that was so unbelievably flawed for a million reasons in design and execution and interpretation of the findings. But because it was published in a big peer-reviewed journal, it became and the news went viral, even though there wasn't viral stuff back then. That was before there was viral. That was viral before there was viral. And all of

a sudden, everyone was taking off their hormones. Every doctor refused to prescribe them. All hormones cause cancer. And that's it. And the few like fringe doctors who were willing to prescribe it would make you sign legal documents, signing your life away, basically. So, you know, it was like this huge deal and this is perfect timing and probably not a coincidence that is happening while this conversation is really being had but just i think it was what six months ago or maybe less jammer came out with like oopsie poopsie and it actually doesn't really cause breast cancer you know so after an entire generation of women have been struggling 20 years 20 years. That's a death note it is. And I feel like there's no way to get that message out there

fast enough. And ironically, the fact that that message went viral before there was viral. And now it's so hard to make this one go viral. It's really difficult. And even to this day, like no matter where I show up and people like, well, I don't want to do that because it causes that. And I was like, no, no. Right. Well, so let's talk about that because I feel like that's something really important that everyone needs to understand. What did you learn from all the experts you were interviewing about the cancer risks and or and if who's not a candidate in that way, and what they can do instead? Yeah, that's the big part of this is that, you know, who is not possibly not a candidate, you know, I think we're learning so much. But you know, essentially

history of blood clot, breast cancer. Those are the big ones that are not a, you know, are estrogen sensitive cancers, obviously. But having a family history, which is what I, where I was very confused, kind of where I came into the split of the roads, having a family history of it was not a contraindicator to whether or not I could be on hormone therapy, which is what I believed once I realized I was in menopause and what I believed after I was starting to do research. And it really wasn't until I went deep into understanding the documentary and understanding the lack of education that doctors had and understanding that doctors were fighting on their own alone with nobody listening. Like, Hey, that, that is not the case that that

was something that was safe for me. And so, and so I've been on hormone therapy. It's been life-changing. I'm never advocating for it. I'm advocating for a woman, a woman to not suffer through these symptoms and to be aware that these symptoms are not just like, oh, I can handle hot flashes, but be aware of any, you know, the long-term that we're talking about with this and what we're looking at when it comes to brain and heart and bone health. So that was important for me. And I think the other big part of it is that it's not too late to implement anything. Like I've also heard the response from a lot of women, like, oh, I've already gone through that. We're still going through that. When you're past menopause, the day of your post-menopausal,

And there's still all those things happening to your body. And so it was important for me to hit on both kind of on both sides of it, because otherwise we're just talking about one day of our lives. But for women leading up to this and lifestyle changes to implement and women that can, you know, are past that day of menopause, but are still dealing with a lot of these symptoms. Yeah. And even so, let me ask you this, what you learned in this regard of, you know, because I do meet a lot of women who were part of that 20 year period where they did suffer through, went through menopause and the transition. And as you said, it's not just it's weight gain, exhaustion, skin changes, hair loss, mood. I mean, for two weeks out of every month, I was ready to blow up the world and anxiety and heart palpitations and weird gastrointestinal stuff. Now, a lot of that, once you kind of move through and you're, quote unquote, through the transition and no longer getting a period and maybe a year or two has passed, hopefully a lot of those symptoms alleviate. yes but a lot of them remain like the libido issues like the weight gain issues like the

memory and focus so i'm wondering if you can speak to that what you learned in that regard because i i meet so many women let's say who are now in their 60s or for a woman who's saying you know what i can suffer for three to five years because i have this story that i don't want to necessarily, and we're going to talk about alternatives to hormone therapy, but that I don't want to necessarily do hormone therapy or my doctors told me it's not a good idea for some medical contraindication. What are the long-term benefits of treating menopause after menopause? I also, I want to address that that age group in there, you know, I know there's, when you look at guidelines, it's like once you're 10 years past menopause, you should be

talking to a practitioner, whether just assuming you're going to jump on HRT. And then there's a question of how long can you stay on it? And we have a lot of doctors out there saying, I'm going to stay on it for the rest of my life. Like there's no reason to pop off of it, right? So I think those are two areas of a lot of misconception in there. And then I also think about that group of people that were exactly who you're talking about that said, wait a minute, I missed that window. Like what happens now? There is some good news in it. And I think that, you know, Dr. Lisa Moscone, neuroscientists is doing a lot of research right now in terms of the brain, in terms of what we're understanding with estrogen receptors in the brain, in terms of what we're understanding with

how we are premenopausal or perimenopausal, how our brain function really just dips in here. And then most of the time comes back out to maybe below where we were just right where we were at the same place. So I feel like that's some good news in this that I didn't know was around before. I thought as soon as your brain starts to decline, like, oh, that's kind of it. And that doesn't really, that is not the case. So it turns out great news. And then I guess I think what else I look at right now is cardiovascular and heart health. And I think about that because I think that that has to be a focus.

And, you know, we know where estrogen plays a role in that. And the fact that heart health is something that I don't pay attention to, especially for women until, you know, we're right there up against like a real problem has been a concern and a lot more of a conversation than it has ever been for me anyway in the past. And being aware of, you know, there's research out there that has said if somebody has more intense hot flashes, that could be a sign of something going on heart-wise. And so that's where I think that we have to pay attention, not saying that we have these symptoms and yeah, we can deal with some of these symptoms and alleviate them, but we have to say like, what does that mean down the

road? And osteoporosis obviously is another big one that always is a concern for me. It's, you know, the three big ones that we always talk about. I didn't wait. Say that last one again. Oh, osteoporosis. Osteoporosis. Yeah, estrogen plays a big role in that. Hey, it's Dr. Laura Berman.

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the Quantum Sex Free course. Check it out and let me know what you think. Yeah, you know, and it's such a personal, and you mentioned this before, every woman goes through it so differently and your symptoms are so differently. And I know that you also speak to even cultural differences and differences among different groups of women.

So I'm wondering if you can speak to that a little bit. I feel like every time I say something, I'm like, the caveat is we need more research. But there really does need to be more research on this. But we know, and this is something that I highlighted in the book and talked a little bit about because I felt like, wow, how are we not talking about this? But that, you know, black women often come into menopause earlier and have more intense symptoms for longer and ones that are most likely to not be getting the options of hormone therapy or not being paid attention to or felt like I didn't have these conversations. that's not okay we in the documentary we talked a lot about it and I think that my concern with it is is that we're not having the conversations in all different communities and I think that we're not having doctors in all those different areas that feel comfortable talking about it so women are left going even if I did go to the doctor and I did try now here do I my doctor's not talking to me about it yeah that's so true and I think it's interesting because you know the

same kind of research is now coming out about the Black community of mothers when giving birth, the infant mortality, the mother mortality, the complications, the incidence of complications. I just think it's no surprise that at birth and at menopause, it's happening. So, yeah, there's so much to discuss there. And with, you know, just I kind of segued, I want to just come back for a minute. Well, one thing I want to say, but I don't want to forget, is that you mentioned the doctors I have found. And I spent years and years and years as a professor teaching medical students and physicians around women's health and sexual health. And what I have found, and the research seems to back this up, is that doctors will not ask about or talk about something they don't have a treatment for.

right they're like that's why they never freaking ask about sex because not only are they uncomfortable with the topic but they're they don't feel like they have a pill they can give you or a patch or whatever that will make it all better so i'm kind of curious about what's going to happen now that hormones for the most part at least with this one big jama article have been undemonized a bit right if the non-viral the non-viral story yeah the non-viral story the good news story which never goes viral if maybe they'll be more amenable to talking about it since they have viable treatments they can at least look at right and other treatments outside of hormones if that's something that we talk about so let's talk about those too yeah i'm hopeful i will say this and

this is a small fraction of what i can contribute in in what i've seen but with the documentary because we didn't go very deep into the study from 2002 and into doctors who are helping in medical schools. We had a ton of doctors and nurse practitioners asked to view the documentary, bring it into hospitals, bring it into schools, bring it into different places and view it to learn. And I thought that was really promising

because even though it's an hour long, you're not gonna learn everything obviously, but it gave the highlights of, you know, here's where we are, here's what happened, here's where we need to go and here's what's not happening. And we, you know, we address workplace and we address and we address medical schools and education. But I thought that was a promising part of it because, you know, really, and they're bringing other doctors in. So there was a doctor up north

who had a theater of like 400 other physicians. I thought that was pretty amazing. So I do want to talk about it and do want to, you know, know as much as they can. No doctor got into this business into those grueling hours and study and, and the amount of money that they put toward education to not want to help on every level that they can help. And so, you know, and I always hesitate to bring up that doctors work, you know, didn't learn, but that's not their fault. And so now they're, they're on a learning curve with the rest of us. And I'm just grateful for the ones that are.

Yeah, me too. I hope more and more do. So let's talk about some of the other and tools beyond hormone therapy. And I will also say, I mean, just full disclosure, I am a breast cancer survivor. My mother had breast cancer. I did not have BRCA. My cancer was not estrogen sensitive or progesterone, any sensitivity. And I take hormone.

So that doesn't mean that that's what you should do or that that's what you should do if you have that history. but I mention it because it's such a personal decision. And for me, it was about quality of life, even more than quantity of life. But I also after reading the research and really taking my own deep dive and talking to my doctor felt like I was not really at risk. But right or the risk, the benefits outweighed the risks. And I mentioned that only because a it's such an individualized decision and be like, you have to really not just assume you're not a candidate. But all that said, if you're not a candidate, it's so important because most people just say, I'm in this box

and that's the end of it. And that's not necessarily the case. Yeah. I have a lot of friends and colleagues like that, and they are suffering, suffering, especially even, you know, sometimes and you can't necessarily take hormones. They have to take tamoxifen after breast cancer, which then bottoms out their hormones even more. So what are some things that you have learned from the experts you interviewed is helpful beyond hormones? You know, I went into each one of those chapters.

I was like, I'm just going to put all the other stuff in one chapter. And I realized everything needs its own. And so, you know, we talk about brain health. Sleep is the biggest part. Like that kind of, I moved that to the, of the book because I just feel like if you're not able to get that under control,

everything else is like, is next to impossible in so many ways. And I think that I had, after writing it and researching it, I realized that that was, I had all new respect for what sleep hygiene meant. I thought that was something people put in a magazine, but I didn't understand. It really is a real thing and it has been game changing. So sleep and the nutrition and strength training are two other areas because we talked about osteoporosis.

And I think that, you know, building muscle and maintaining that strength versus what I learned is that in an 80s Gen Xer of like, get on the treadmill and run as far as you can and sweat as much as you can. And so I've really changed up that routine of the workouts and how to take care of myself in the lifestyle area and how to eat protein versus try to be fat free all the time. There's a lot of those rules, you know, that I think that we grew up with and I've had to change those for sure. And then I think the other big one was managing stress and mindset because I went through a divorce and perimenopause. And I think that that aging parents divorce, menopause, perimenopause, menopause, I didn't have a good way to control

stress or to manage stress. And I think that that has been something huge that I've talked about quite a bit and, and seeing people react to quite a bit. And then there's alcohol too, but, you know, kind of like, well, damn alcohol. Now it's true. So much we can take. Yeah. Well, it just affects differently, actually. I didn't think it did. I was like, yeah, I get the rules, but I don't know. But even since writing the book to where I am today or researching the doctor I am today, I've noticed a significant difference in how it affects me. So wakes me up in the middle of the night, makes me feel kind of crappy the next day. And we'll say I'm still I'm still trying to figure the jury's out on whether or not you're going to stop drinking. I know I was I don't think it's the new study that comes out, but I don't think so.

I stopped drinking over COVID with my husband. And then I never really picked it back up. And I was now going through, you know, menopause. But I have noticed that when I do drink, I mean, I was just at a conference this weekend, I had just like two glasses of wine at dinner. And I felt just like, like I was so hung over the next day. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. I know exactly what you're saying. It's, it's what they is. What did they tell? What did you learn? The reason there's so many, there's so many new studies that are out there right now about how our body metabolism, uh, tablas, but I don't know. I mean, I, I think there was one recently that was a pretty, like came down really hard on it just in general, not just for women in menopause, but came down on alcohol really hard. So I tried to pay attention to it, but man, it is very different. The waking up in the middle of the night though, is a problem and that I'll do anything to stop that. And so what beyond a sleep hygiene, you

mean turn off the blue lights, get up, you know, get up in the morning, go to bed at the same time at night. And then I went into supplements too, quite a bit, because I know that there's a lot of confusion and question about that. And the fact that there's not this one size fits all pill that I think that a lot of people are hoping that there's like, I take this and it says three things on it. It's all going to go away. For me, the purpose of the book was to have as many experts as I thought were necessary in the book with their information. Lisa Moscone is in that, Shelby Harris is in that talk about sleep, Chris Winters, and then to also provide actionable takeaways.

So it was very easy to read and distilled a lot of the research papers and the different things that I tried to go through to really understand. So it took a long time to write and I had a lot of help with, you know, with doctors explaining to me and helping distill for me what was going on. what I wanted to give women a script to walk into your doctor's office with, to be able to advocate for yourself, to be able to ask the right questions and you needed to fire your doctor, then that's what you're going to need to do to get to the right answers. Yeah. I love that part. And that's something I've been advocating for just even from the sexual health standpoint,

if your doctor blows you off or tells you what's all in your head or, you know, tells you just to have a glass of wine and take a bath and whatever like find a new find a new doctor we have to be with all things but in particular with this we have to be our own best advocate so i love that you give them scripts to sort of find you know because know what to say and what to ask for what tests to ask for and yes yes because how do we know and i i think the other area that you know we needed a little bit of help in is, uh, you'll talk to our partners too. And the sex part of this and the sex part, and in any, any age, uh, you know, past your fifties or even before that, but being able to have a conversation with your partner about this and not feel vulnerable and

not sexy and that your best years are, are behind you. It was really important to just kind of help women through that part of it. Cause I had a tough time. I had to have that conversation with my, my now husband and say like, look, I'm not, you know, this isn't, you know, I got all this stuff going on right now in my body and I need to talk about what's happening and why sex is painful and why it's not comfortable. And it's not, I wrote one part of the book, it says, is your husband or your hormones. And while it's like, you know, it's kind of funny. Oftentimes this is what we see marriages and sadly, and a lot of people break up and a lot of confusion in the relationship. And so relationships, I think are a big part of this that have to be paid attention

to. So I said the book starts like, you know, in the doctor's office, but it goes to the bedroom and the boardroom. And we talk about workplace in a lot of the different areas that menopause affects. It's just not, you can't keep it in a silo. No, it definitely affects. And that's really been the focus of my work is the sexual health and relationship aspect. Well, certainly when we're talking about menopause, but about everything. And it's true. I mean, the incidence of separation and divorce, yes, we could argue that it's also when the nest is empty and the kids are grown and these you know may coincide with other things but one of the biggest causes for separation divorce is that sexual incompatibility and that can start for women

low desire can start for women certainly you know we're we have half the testosterone in our 60s that we have in our 20s but it's slowly declining so you know testosterone is that hormone of desire and even sexual response so just as an example not to mention estrogen levels declining with menopause and that causes dryness and pain. But even as early as the mid-30s, women can start to have low desire and difficulty sexually responding. And they think, like you said, oh, it's my partner and it may be, or stress or whatever else. And then their partner's feeling rejected. And then once you get to the age you are, when you were dating, I hear from so many women that they're not talking to their partner. They're cringing. I mean, I have women ask me all the time, like,

is there anything I could put in my vagina so that I don't have to pull the lubricant out? Because I have a story that if I pull the lubricant out, he's going to be grossed out and see me as old. Yeah. Yeah. Insulted. Can you imagine? No, I can't. I mean, I can, but I can't. Yeah. I mean, obviously it's happening. And to me, like what an amazing litmus test for a partner. Like, is this someone who I can go the distance with? At the very least, you have to be able to have these conversations with them. And if they can't tolerate it or they get grossed out, like they are definitely not your person. No, I took my husband shopping for the lube. Yeah. Good. What, what are we getting here? And I was like this.

write it down yeah oh uh i think it's just such a really big conversation that has um that we've been i don't know i just i i just think that we i guess when you go to a doctor's office you're not necessarily asked like how's your sex life going you know when you're i wish i would i wish i would too i wish that was left on some chart somewhere and so for you me as a woman to go in and be like, oh, and you know what? My sex life isn't good. Because for some reason we think it's our fault if something's not. I'm imagining the pain or why is it so painful? Am I just not desiring a person anymore? And so there's just so much at play with your mind. And so when I came back to the book, I was like, I'm doing a whole chapter on sex and I didn't tell my husband all

the little stories I was adding in there. So I added a bunch of the stories of what happened during the course everything and then a week ago the book came in and i saw him like in there reading the section wait a second i said no no no it's all learning experience for people exactly it really is and i we call that the doorknob question you know because as the doctor's hand is on the doorknob okay yes exam complete questions answered as the hand is on the doorknob yeah it's like oh one more question if she that's a little thing right right right yeah yeah and it is and once again doctors doctors don't ask they don't ask because they don't feel like they have a pill for it or a treatment for it so a lot of my work has been training doctors

about what you can recommend when you should send someone for therapy when you might want to consider hormones what you can recommend over the counter I feel like with your own body like that's the other big you know that's the other big part of it is to understand your own body and what turns you on and what it turns off and what you know and what's going to to work for you versus feeling like I'll just deal with it and you know oh not insult anybody yeah and also with your body Because so much changes, emotionally changes, your response changes, your sensation, your intensity of your orgasms, so many things change. And your body is changing. And I mean, even if you're doing the weight and the diet and all the things that will definitely help you feel good and look your best, but we're not going to look like when we were 20. And in our society, like for me, I made a decision two years ago to stop all injections of Botox, all that stuff, just because I felt like, what am I doing? Am I going to do this for the rest of my life?

And what are we doing to each other? Like we're perpetuating this idea that if you're older, you're not attractive, that wrinkles are not attractive. Who the hell says that wrinkles or a little bit of fag is ugly? Like you're only attractive if you're reproductively viable, you know, like that's crazy. And there's too many of us for us to be upholding that. So, but I will say it's not easy to be in a world where everybody is puffed and plumped and wrinkled and look in the, you know, I have to like give myself pep talks, but it's process of like really learning to love and celebrate and cherish the miracle that our

bodies are at every single age and find the amazing beauty in that. Because we all know women who don't fit the ideal of perfect beauty and they walk into a room and everyone's attracted to them. Yeah, of course. Of course. Because of their confidence. Yeah, because of their confidence. And then you're like, this person's so beautiful and amazing. I think that's part of the lessons learned too during this time. Like when we say feel better than before, it doesn't mean that like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be, you know, I'm running, you know, I'm running 10 marathons in a row. I'm going to feel like I'm 22 years old. I think it's really like understanding who you are. And that's, that's, you feel very, very different. I stand talking to women constantly

now and I'm amazed at who they are and what they're accomplishing and how they feel like very rich about whatever they're doing at that point in their lives. And I think that that's that's kind of that balance of where we want to be, you know, versus trying to fight to get back to what it was. So, yeah, it was great. But I don't know that that's, you know, that we're not ever it's not ever happening. And you better be appreciative of today. And I think I learned that lesson young losing a mother, you know, when she was 51 years old. So, yeah. Yeah. I think I learned it losing my son. I mean, I lost my mother when I was she was 60. So she was pretty young. I wasn't as young as you. But I think losing my son at 16 was what did like life is so freaking short. And I think

for so many women, and this is why I love that feel even better than ever before in your book, or even better than before is because you we have an opportunity in this transition, you're not going to worry about getting pregnant anymore. For many of us who are parents, your kids are leaving home. You give less of a shit what anyone thinks if you do the work that you need to do on yourself. You have more time. You're taking care of your health. So your energy is good. Your sex life is good. Your sleep is good. And you have an opportunity for exploration and creativity and reinvention and wisdom keeping and wisdom sharing in whatever vein you want to do it you know in our mother's generation it was like you're 50 and now you know you just kind of

wait to die take care of your grandchildren you know whatever like that no this is a whole new lease on my absolutely it really is it really really is i look i sit and i look at my 85 year old father right now he lost my mom my stepmom and he's like you know what one day at a time I'm going forward and I'm going to appreciate every day I'm on this planet. And I, yeah, there's something that I've learned that you learn a lot through loss, you know, and you learn through people that look at how to have different outlooks. And I think that that's part of it for me. Yeah, for sure.

Well, this has been fascinating. Anything I didn't ask you about, I'm certainly able to. You're wonderful. I went to the doctor, said I'm crazy for your love.