Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Moving Through Grief

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

In this language of Love Session, I’m talking with a divorced woman named Liz who lost the son she shares with her ex-husband. We talk about the prolonged grief she is experiencing and how it is impacting her current relationship and causing mixed emotions about her ex. While Liz has unique issues in her relationships, the impact of her grief and feeling torn between two people is very relatable to many of my listeners. In this Language of Love Session, we unpack several of the common challenges Liz is facing, including: How to avoid getting stuck in the middle of the grieving process, begin to heal and learn to live your life without guilt How prolonged grief can can calcify and become part of your fiber if ignored  The type of grief therapist I recommend to help move through your pain in a healthy way How to manage relationships and mixed emotions that may surface in the face of unexpected loss How to sort out feelings when you feel torn between two lovers, especially when you’re in the middle of healing from a traumatic loss Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman, and for the last 30 years, I've been helping people learn to love and be loved better. Welcome to the Language of Love Sessions. This is where I get to work with you one-on-one, on air. You, my listeners, my goal in these sessions is to empower you to enjoy better relationships, both with others and with yourself and to help you embrace how precious and sacred your body, your love life, and your sexuality really is.

It's time we all become fluent in the language of love. Liz, tell me what's on your mind. How can I help? First of all, it's a pleasure and an honor to speak with you because I've been following you on Instagram. I lost my son, as I think I told you, and basically I was calling about that, but I know you did too.

but it's going to be three years. But my question is, I've been talking to his father, my ex-husband. My question is, and I do have a live-in boyfriend for the past 12 years, but that hasn't been working out very well in the last couple of months. But we have been talking, me and my ex-husband, and I don't know. My feelings are, because I cry all the time about my son, but it's coming up to be three years on Christmas and his birthday is next week. But my question is, I don't know. I have these feelings for my ex-husband and I think he has them for me. And I don't know if it's because we lost our boy. And I'm kind of confused with my live-in boyfriend and then with my ex-husband because I think he's still married, but supposedly

he's going through a divorce. I have no clue. Yeah. Okay. So there's a lot to unpack there. And first of all, let me start by saying my heart feels your heart, obviously, but I am so sorry for your loss. And I know all too intimately the pain you're in. And I also understand what that kind of pain and loss can do to bring people together in love and also to pull them apart. And so I'm going to sort of try to unpack this with you so I can give you my best advice. You say that you've been with your live-in boyfriend for 12 years? Yes. Okay. And so let's just put your ex-husband aside for a moment.

just for the moment. And we'll get to him in a second. It's not an either or thing, right? It's a, it's your two separate things. I'm kind of liking that. I don't know if you ever heard the song torn between two lovers. Yeah. Well, that's why I'm going to help you try to parse that out, right? Because you obviously have a very different history and connection. You know, every relationship is very different. And when you're trying to make a choice between two people, it rarely works out. It's a harder decision to make, but things become much clearer when we can just like, without the comparison, get clear on how we feel about each person. So talking about the person you've been living with for 12 years, you say that relationship hasn't been going very

well for some time. For how long have you been struggling in that relationship? Well, for a while now, I mean, he was very, very, he's very loving. He's very caring, but my problem is he's not a contributor to the household and I'm getting older now. I'm gonna be 68 years old and I need some security. And with him, I don't get the security as far as financially goes. And my ex-husband could give me the security

and he's always telling me that and we talk, but I don't know if it's because he's feeling what I'm feeling with the loss of our boy. So let me just ask you this. If your ex-husband wasn't in the picture, let's say he's happily married and off with his wife somewhere, how would you feel about your current relationship?

I'd probably still feel the same. I feel resentful, like in the morning when I wake up and go to work and he's not going to work. See, he's an entertainer. And with COVID and all, he's not doing what he's doing. But he's getting older now and he does have little jobs here and there. But I wanted him to get something stable,

like to bring money in constantly. But he's going to be 74 years old I understand that, too. Yeah. OK. But he can do something. He could do something. So is that the only issue? Not that that's not enough of an issue, but that you are not only supporting yourself, but basically supporting him, I'm guessing. Supporting the household. Yes. Right. So you're supporting the household. What if he weren't in the picture? Would your expenses be the same or or yes they would be the same either way yes it would be maybe yeah okay either way whether keeping that other option aside for the moment whether you were single or in this

relationship you would be supporting yourself in the same way right where the resentment comes in is that you want some relief from having to support yourself and if he were working that would take some of the pressure off. Correct. And then when, you know, I don't know how old you are, but I don't think you're 68. But it comes to the point where, you know, I do want to retire. I want to. Yeah. You know, he's a good person. He's not a bad person. I wouldn't have been with him for 12 years if he was. But I want more, I guess. And then and then since my son, I think I've we really haven't been intimate. I don't have these feelings anymore. Has he been supportive with your grief? Yes, he has. Yes. Okay. If your ex wasn't in the picture, would you ever think of leaving this

relationship because of this and be single and maybe try to meet someone else or be by yourself? Or is it? I'd probably be by myself. Yeah. And I don't want to be by myself. When you get to be this age, you don't want to be by yourself. And right now I don't want to be by myself. So you imagine that if you were to leave this relationship, pretending your ex-husband isn't available, if you were to leave this relationship, that you would probably by default be single, not because you want it to be single, but you imagine you wouldn't meet anyone else. Is that your story? Yeah. I'm not one to go out and meet anybody else. Yeah. Okay. I don't know. You know, if it comes along, it comes along, but I don't think so.

So you're saying that if your ex-husband weren't at all in the picture, all other things being the same, that you would probably stay in this relationship so that you don't have to be alone? Yes. Okay. So now let's separately pretend you don't have this 12-year relationship, right? And you are single or you're planning on being single or for whatever reason you decide to be single and your ex is available, which is arguable because you seem a little suspicious about how done his marriage is, his current marriage. But can you tell me what led to the breakdown of your marriage in the first place? Well, he cheated on me with the person that he's married to or going to get divorced to, whatever. Okay. Okay. And now he's at least emotionally cheating on the one he's married to with you. Yes. He's had some very big problems and issues with her. And we talk as friends basically, but then sometimes get a little flirtatious and this and that. And, you know, he talks about our boy, of course. And, you know, not as open as I do. He does. I think men don't talk about it as

like as women do. But, you know, we do. It's sad. And, you know, he sends me things and tries to help me and I tried to help him, blah, blah, blah. But we really haven't seen each other for three years. I mean, I get the bond. My husband and I have talked about this a lot because unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know which, we've met so many couples now who have lost their children the same way. And there is something, I remember we were talking about this to this couple the other day and I forget how it came up. And the guy said, yeah, I would never divorce her. Not because I love her and everything he goes, but the truth is no one else could really understand. Right. Right. Like there's a unique understanding that both that

the parents have as much as someone else who comes into the picture can empathize and understand the two of you having lost this child that you brought into the world, that is a really unique understanding and bond. And I totally get the grace that comes with that, the relief that comes with that, the intimacy, the emotional intimacy that can come with that under the right circumstances. Sometimes it can do the opposite and drive you apart if you guys aren't dealing with it. So I get that pull. And I also understand why inherent in your question that you asked earlier is like, is this draw or this pull I'm feeling toward my ex-husband really about the loss and that common bond or is it about something else? Right. And so the concern I have about your overarching question

where you feel torn between two lovers is that the crux of the issue, it sounds to me, is that you have this story that if you were with your ex-husband, then you would be able to retire in comfort and you wouldn't have to worry about money, right? That it's about money, which is fine. Listen, reporting yourself is important. You're right about that, but I don't know. We've been divorced now for 15 years. I don't know if he's changed. I changed. Well, I know I did. I don't know about him, but he was always completely different from the person I'm living with. He's a completely different man. I don't know. But do you suggest maybe that I see him in person? Or I was supposed to actually have lunch with him last week, give him some of

David's, my son's, some personal belongings that he wanted of his. And it just never happened. But because he lives in another state, but it's drivable. I don't know if that's a good idea. I'm going to give you my best advice. Well, that's what I'm here for. That I would give not only as with my therapist hat on, but that I would give my friend or anyone that I cared about. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine

with the Coffee Plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like Coffee Plus B12 to help support immune function and Coffee Plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose Ginseng Delight, our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning.

Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on Nespresso.com. My suggestion would be that you do this very, whatever it is that you're going to do, that you do very cleanly and clearly. And so if there is any potential to get back with your ex, once again, pretending that your current partner doesn't exist, right? What I would want you to do is to say to him,

look, you're telling me that you're not happy in your relationship. You're telling me that you're interested or having feelings for me. I'm aware that I'm having feelings for you. I'm not 100% clear on whether it's about the loss of our son, whether it's about our history, whether it's about us coming back together full circle. But what I do know is that having been on the other side of this, I do not want to be the other woman. Correct.

I've said that to him a few times. And if you want to explore things with me or with anyone, this isn't an either or thing. If you don't want to be with your wife, then you need to leave your wife. And once you are clear of your wife and you have filed for separation and you are in the process of filing for divorce at the bare minimum, right, that's the bare minimum, then we can explore, perhaps, if there is something there. But the last thing I want you to do, Liz, is to start diving into this mess where you're putting a good relationship at risk for someone who has already betrayed you, is currently betraying his wife and is not clean and clear of her. Right. So you're going to blow up your current relationship for someone who has already shown you that he's capable of duplicity.

Maybe he's reformed. Maybe he's learned lessons. Maybe he's been through stuff that has changed him. I'm not saying that cheaters can't stop cheating. Right. He has shown you that he's capable of that. And so what I would want you to see before you even considered exploring a relationship with him is that he was moving with integrity now. Right. That he was demonstrating integrity, that he was going to his wife and saying, look, I'm not happy and this isn't working and we have these issues. we need to separate and that he was willing and complete enough and brave enough and in integrity enough to be on his own and not have the next one sitting in the sidelines before he leaves the last one right i've said that to him but apparently right now he's living in another state like i

said she's not living apparently what he's telling me because i don't have proof of any of this he's not living with her she's living in another in new jersey i live in new jersey he lives in Delaware. I could tell you. And I don't know if that's true or not. He's never invited me to Delaware. So I don't know. I don't know. You don't know if it's true or not. And also you would need some, but, but living separately, are they getting divorced? Are they legally separated? I don't know if it's legally separated. This is what I don't know. Well, so then what you say to him, it sounds like you're separated. It sounds like you're

living separate lives, but when you file for divorce, let me know. Yes, you're right. You're right. And then you'll see if he files for divorce, it can't be for you. Right. He has to do this on his own and for himself. And then if he's single and filed for divorce and you have that evidence that he's done that, you know, I would ask to see the right. because this guy has shown you that he can lie to you, then maybe it's an opportunity to explore, okay, are those feelings still there? How do I feel about him? But what I don't want you to do is to get, I mean, I get completely that like financial security is a real thing, but you also know that you can be completely financially secure and be completely miserable if you're with someone who, you know what I mean? My daughter tells me the same thing.

So it feels to me like your draw to your act. I don't know if this is true. This is just a gut instinct from listening to you and feeling into you. The draw to your acts is my son is your son and your fear, your grief and your fear are the two, right? And so no decision made from fear is ever a good one, right? And your fear of financial scarcity, along with your grief, that common bond, obviously the grief will all, and your son, even alive, would always hold for the two of you. But certainly the grief will always have that bond between you that no one else in the planet can understand the way the two of you do. You know, even I can't understand your specific connection and grief for your beautiful child, right? That you guys created

together. So I get that bond and that bond is always going to be there. But any decision made from pain and fear of scarcity or any fear, in this case, it's fear of financial scarcity. For some people, it's fear of being alone. For someone else, it's, you know, fear of societal judgment or whatever. But any decision made from fear never works out. It never works out. coffee you love with added b vitamins like coffee plus b12 to help support immune function and coffee plus b6 to keep your day moving or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight our new double espresso with ginseng extract whatever lies ahead don't change your morning let your morning change you discover coffee plus on espresso.com and so i'm not saying you absolutely should stay with

this guy shouldn't explore things with your ex. I know. It's a decision only I could make. I am saying it feels like the draw to him is coming from places that aren't wholeness in you. And if you're going to make a decision, especially about love, you want it to be from a place of wholeness. So what I would suggest to you, since it sounds like your only issue with your current partner is that he's not pulling his weight financially, everything else is really feels really good. He's supportive. He's kind. He's interesting, loving. Right. So, and are you in any kind of counseling or doing any kind of grief work? Grasp. I'm going to, I don't know if you ever heard of grasp. Is that a group? It's a group. Yes. We meet once a month and also during

COVID it's for, it's called grieving after substance abuse. Okay. Yeah. It's for all parents. Yeah. I think that's beautiful. And having a community like that is beautiful, but you need more. I know. Okay. Because three years out, obviously I know you don't ever get over something like this. I know it all too well, but to be in the amount of pain you're in on a daily basis, that is what's called complicated grief. You get stuck in the grief and it's all too common. It's 98% of us. I'm making up that stat, but it's a huge percentage of us. You know, people who are, who have had tremendous loss, you can get stuck in certain phases of the grieving process. And so a monthly group is the bare minimum of what will really get you through this. And the reason I'm

bringing this up is not, not only so that you're in less pain, cause I want that for you, but that you are, you can't make decisions through this lens of pain that are really sustainable and good for you. You're not in your quote unquote, right mind with this level of pain you're living in, right? It's like the equivalent. If we were to look at caveman times is someone trying to make a decision while a saber-toothed tiger is fighting, you know, attacking them. Like you're not making a decision with a sound mind and body. That's not to say you're insane. No, but I don't think I'll ever get out of pain after losing my boy. You will if the grieving process is allowed to be moved through with support. I can tell you from where I'm sitting over a year and a half out is having

really fully immersed myself in the grieving process. So I'm not suggesting you do that. But what I can tell you is that the loss never leaves you. It becomes a companion, but it is not the constant lens through which you view your life. It is not something where you can't speak about it. I mean, I still often cry when I speak about them. It depends what I'm talking about and who I'm talking to about it and what my mood is that day and what just happened, right? Right. Me too. I do want to retire soon, but thank God I'm still working. That's what gets me through every day. You can, you can find joy. Like you can live a life where you are living in joy, where you are living in connection, where life has tremendous meaning, where you can see

the beauty in life where you can feel immense gratitude and excitement in your life and still carry this. I do try every day. I really do. I try because I do have my daughter. She's married, but she doesn't live near me. But I tried through her. No, I know you're trying. I'm not saying this is a choice that you're making. I'm saying that you need more support. Yes. I'm saying that If I were to like write a prescription for you, what I would want you to do is start going to weekly counseling with a grief therapist, but ideally someone who specializes in somatic experiencing. Because at this point, several years out, the only way I can describe it is like it

gets embedded in your body. It's like calcified almost, right? Because over time that happens. If it's not proactively released and worked with, it almost like becomes part of the fiber of you. And not that he won't always be part of the fiber of you, he will and is, but the grief doesn't have to. And so somatic experiencing is a specific kind of therapy that helps with these old kind of calcified traumas inside us becoming sort of the lens through which we're experiencing everything. Right. And if I could get you to do that, ideally once a week for maybe three to six months, including your monthly community group, I think after those three to six months, you will be much clearer. You will be much lighter. The albatross around your neck that you're carrying is not going to be there anymore. And you will find it so much easier to make this

kind of decision. Like, I don't want you to make any decision, big decision about the future of your life until you heal in a deeper way. Right. Because what you've been doing so far is surviving this. Yeah, you're right. And that's not what's supposed to happen. You're supposed to be healing and coming to a place where you have survived and you are now thriving. That doesn't mean the loss is any less. That doesn't mean you don't carry him with you, but you're not supposed to be surviving still.

Okay, so it's a grieving counselor, a somatic. Somatic experiencing therapist. Ideally, anyone who's a somatic experiencing therapist is a grief therapist. They've dealt with it, they understand it, but they also deal with other kinds of traumas. And I'll put these in the notes, in the show notes of the show as well for other people that are listening. But if you go to traumahealing.org is one really good place.

I'm going to write that down. I think you put that on your Instagram one time. I'm sure I have because I recommend it. Traumahealing.org. The other place to check out is the Hakomi Institute, H-A-K-O-M-I, Hakomi Institute. And their website is hakomiinstitute.com. And they are a group that does somatic experiencing as well. And both of those websites have therapists that have been trained by them around the

country. So you can look in your area and find someone who's experienced in somatic experiencing And you tell them that you've been struggling with prolonged grief, that you have, you know, a lot of trauma and pain around the loss that you're still living with and that you're ready to kind of get further support to release it. And I would ideally want you to go once a week to work with someone. Some of these people work remotely, some of them in person, but I would want you to work with someone on a weekly basis for ideally six months, minimum, minimum three. and I don't think that's enough, but like six months would be ideal. And if you get back to me after six months, I think you are going to have a totally, be in a totally different state of energy, a totally different state of clarity. And the answers will, for this question, but for so much more. Thank you. Will be so much clearer. Thank you so much. I will do that. All right.

Will you keep us posted on how you're doing? I will through Instagram. Anyway. Yes. But You can be posted through Instagram. You can come back for an update, but we are cheering you on and I'm sending you so much grace and love and light. Thank you so much. I went to the doctor,

said I'm crazy for your love. Wrote me a prescription, But there's no cure for a crush