Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Navigating Finances as a Couple

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Money. Sex. Kids. Religion. These are four big kahunas that can make or break a relationship. On todaysLanguage of Love Session I’m speaking with Victoria about money issues coming up in her relationship. Navigating finances can be a minefield for relationships. Moving in is one thing, but sharing expenses is quite another. In this Language of Love session, I sit down with Victoria who reports she and her boyfriend are struggling with different view on spending. Listen as I talk to her about financial burden sharing and how each partner can accommodate the other person’s spending and saving preferences while still honoring their own. It’s all about meeting in the middle. Can you create space and grace to support each other’s different desires to spend or save money? Be sure to listen to this week’s Love session to find out! Visit my website and check out my books on love, sex and relationships. Be sure to tune in regularly to The Language of Love for great discussions and thought-provoking conversations with accomplished individuals and experts offering invaluable advice on how to love and be loved better. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman, and for the last 30 years, I've been helping people learn to love and be loved better. Welcome to the Language of Love Sessions. This is where I get to work with you one-on-one, on air. You, my listeners, my goal in these sessions is to empower you to enjoy better relationships, both with others and with yourself, and to help you embrace how precious and sacred your body, your love life, and your sexuality really is. It's time we all become fluent in the language of love. Victoria, welcome. What's on your mind? So I'm in like a bit of a newer, it's a little over a year

relationship. We're in our thirties. We moved in together pretty quickly, moved to a new city, And we're kind of having some trouble right now with finances, just how we spend, who spends on what. And I also have kind of come to realize there's this feminine side of me that does want to be taken care of in a way that I didn't ever really realize because I'm all like, woman, hear me roar. I don't need anybody to take care of me. But now that I'm getting to a point where we're talking about marriage, I kind of want him to be more generous than me. I spend too much. You know, I just like to shop, I like to do whatever. Not great with money.

But when I have it, I'm generous with it. Him on the other hand, he's not. And we're in a point in our relationship right now where he has more money than I do. And when I had more money than him, I would cover more than he did. and now the opposite is happening and he's still holding his cards real close to his chest and it's making me so resentful. What has happened or have you tried to talk to him about it and what has happened when you have? So I've tried to talk to him and he kind of gets very defensive and says, oh, you think I'm not generous or not kind. And, you know, he just says that the

money he has now he wants to save. And I just think he's not used to living for more than anybody but himself in a couple. And he's the one that talks about marriage all the time. And I kind of want to remind him like, well, if you want to get married, that includes kind of us taking care of each other. And so now we're at this really awkward point where we're just keeping everything super separate and we're Venmoing each other for stuff. And it makes me super uncomfortable and I don't know what to do. Yeah. Well, I mean, this is a big issue, right? It's money, sex, kids and religion, right? Those are the four big kahunas that can make or break a relationship when you are or are not on the same page. And that doesn't mean that you have to come into things. It's

easier, of course, if you come into things on the same page, right? That makes everything smoother. But, you know, money is like those other three things, super emotional for people and has so much to do with how we were raised and the big T and little t traumas we experienced around money, whether it was that we had a parent who was in debt and we ended up having, you know, homelessness or crises or the electricity turned off, or we had parents who always fought about money or there was a horrible divorce. You know, there's all of these wounds that we have around money and even overt and not so overt lessons we get taught around money that don't necessarily serve us so that when two of us come together, part of understanding each other, and I know you mentioned

that this is a new relationship. This is why I say to people, don't rush into marriage until you know how do each of us handle stress together and apart? How do each of us handle crises? How do each of us handle money, religion, sex? Are we on the same page? And more importantly, can we get on the same page? And that's the question that you have to answer. You're not on the same page. You didn't come to the relationship on the same page, but can you get on the same page and how do you do that? Right. So I think part of this is you getting really clear on what it is you want. My guess is since you are a woman, hear me roar. It's not that you require that you can just be a lady who lunches and are supported completely, right?

Not at all. But you probably want to feel like I am supported if something happens to me or I want to have a baby and take some time off or, you know, that I don't have to hustle, right? That this person has my back financially. Yeah. My sense is that's what you're looking for, right? So I think what you want to focus on in the conversation with him is less about like him being generous or not generous, but really making, it's not about who he is as a human being. It's about what it is that you want in action practically. So maybe you don't even know this yet, but let me ask you in an ideal world, what would the financial burden sharing look like in your relationship right now? Well, it would, if it was right now, you know, I moved to another

state for him. He got all of his moving expenses taken care of by work. I didn't get, you know, so I'm out several thousand dollars. We've had a lot of emergencies stuff in the past six months. I've taken care of anything. No need to ask for anything. I'll take care of it. So at this point, this month, whatever it is, you know, this current time, I would like for him to be like, you know it let me pick up a little bit of the slack since you've been picking up so much of the slack the past six months and with the move like maybe I'll pay you know rent for you just for a month I told him I was you know a little bit like not in my my bank account isn't in a place where I like it to be where I feel comfortable and you know or just like I'll buy all the groceries for a month like

I want it I just it's this idea and I don't know why I'm so obsessed with it of it being even calculating route to avoid seeing poverty turn left to bypass the unhoused youth sleeping on the street then keep right to skip by the lines of people waiting for food steer clear of the crowded shelter turning people away then take the next exit let's stop looking away and get in the way of rising poverty your donations help the united way fight poverty in thousands of ways like providing food, shelter, and crisis prevention. Donate today at unitedwaygt.org. I have this really big fear and trigger of being taken advantage of in my life

because I have been a lot and it has come a lot from my generosity. And so it's triggering that, but he's my boyfriend. I know he loves me. I know that he's not one of those people that would ever maliciously want to take advantage of me. So I'm also trying to differentiate what's my trigger of people in the past in what is actually happening. Right. But I think what's going to happen is as you're feeling vulnerable financially, because you've had such a big output of cash and not a lot of income to compensate for it, is that you feel vulnerable right now and like nervous, right? You feel

unsafe financially. And so when you feel unsafe, that's when all of those old wounds of betrayal or being taken advantage of or not being cared for in the way that you want are going to come to the surface. So it's super important to own that because what you're saying is there's this, which is so typical for all of us, there's this war between what you consciously know, this man loves me, he's not taking advantage of me, and what your wounded part thinks, which is I'm alone in the world. No one's really taking care of me, including this person. Now this person's not taking care of me. So I think part of it is really sharing that with him and saying, look, I am someone who tends toward financial insecurity. And I, and he probably

is too with his feelings toward saving and restricting spending. Right. So we both have these fears about money. And I do think it behooves both of us to, to work through some of those. But in the meantime, I feel very vulnerable financially. And I know it's not ever your intention to contribute to that feeling. But what I would love is if we could come up with a financial plan that made both of us feel safe. I work with a lot of couples around this issue, one form or another. And what I find is really helpful is focus less on like, I just want to feel like if I fell financially, he'd have my back, right? Because that's kind of an obtuse, abstract thing to ask someone, right? But what does that look like in action? So getting really specific and

couples do this in all sorts of ways. First of all, you lay out all your expenses for the next six months. Here's our budget. Here's what we spend every month, including mad money or spontaneous things or whatever else, or an emergency fund or savings, right? How much you put into savings every week or every month. But here's what more or less we can predict the spending is over the next six months. Here's what I have coming in. Here's what you have coming in. Let's figure out how we can get this much into a joint account every month to pay all of these bills and attend to this budget. Right. So let's say I'm just making this up. Your monthly budget, including rent and all your expenses, is twenty one hundred dollars. Right. And today's world is more than

that a lot of the time, but let's just say that's it. Right. And he's making three times what you make. Right. He's going to put in three times more of the twenty one hundred dollars a month than you are. It should be commensurate with your income. Yeah. Unless one of you comes to the table with a huge inheritance or savings, it should reflect your income. And then you have a joint account calculating route to avoid seeing poverty turn left to bypass the unhoused youth sleeping on the street then keep right to skip by the lines of people waiting for food steer clear of the crowded shelter turning people away then take the next exit let's stop looking away and get in the way of rising poverty your donations help the united way fight poverty in

thousands of ways, like providing food, shelter, and crisis prevention. Donate today at UnitedWayGT.org. That is about your life expenses together. And as you buy a house or rent a house or have kids or get pets or whatever, all of those things go into the joint account. So you get really, really practical about it. But then you can also share with him emotionally that part of what makes you feel really loved and safe in the relationship, in any relationship, is feeling like if something bad happened, you'd have my back. And I know that intellectually, but then there's this part of me that starts to question it. So I just want to out the insecurity because when you do, it's when we don't say it out loud that we wear that lens and start to find, start to resent or start to find

the evidence of the ways in which he's not taking care of you or willing to take care of you. And like, you know, what if just I mean, can a relationship still work long term if you genuinely like to spend your money on different things? Like, I don't want to be committed to someone for the rest of my life and not be able to do the stuff I've always loved, you know, to go on vacations, nice vacations if we have money to go to the spa, to go to the theater, you know, And it's like, what if he just doesn't like spending money on those kinds of things? Obviously, I'll have my own money and that's always important. But like there's a middle ground, right?

No, it's about your quality of life. I mean, this happens a lot in relationships. Let's say he loves playing golf, right? That's I'm making this up. I don't know if he does, but he loves playing golf. You have zero interest in golf and golf is an expensive sport. You know, you got to buy the clubs and the golf fees and the you know, whatever. So you could resent the fact that he has this hobby because you love him and it gives him joy.

You put it into the family budget, right? So for you, part of what's in the family budget is a monthly, not that you're going to spend the same amount every month, but you average it out. How much do I spend on average a month on vacations, meals out, experiences, things like this? I'm going to make a fund for this. What is he like doing? My guess is he doesn't just sit staring at the wall to save money. He just has different things on which he likes to spend his money than you do. Right. Yeah. Yeah, he does. And, you know, he likes outdoor things and we do like different things, but that we do like some of the same stuff, too. I do think that I mean, this is really both of our first just real grown up relationship. Yeah. So living with someone.

So to answer your question, you absolutely can have a thriving, wonderful relationship while valuing different things that you like to spend your money on for your quality of life. Right. And this is all beyond the necessities of food and shelter. And right. So your priority is spending it on travel and his priority is spending it on outdoor activities or stuff for outdoor sports or whatever. both of those things fill your hearts, right? And you love each other and want to support each other. You know, my husband doesn't roll his eyes when I spend money on some new resin kit or art supplies or whatever, like, you know, because he knows that that makes me really happy. Is that where he would spend his money? No. Right. Where he would choose to spend our money? No. But that's something that fills me up. And if I'm filled up, that makes him happy, right? Because he wants me

to be filled up. And even selfishly, if I'm filled up, there's more of me to give to him, right? So I'm sure he's not thinking that way, but maybe he is. So to answer your question, you absolutely can have different priorities on how you like to or feel you want to spend your money the question is can you create space and grace to support each other's different desires to spend money and then calculating route to avoid seeing poverty turn left to bypass the unhoused youth sleeping on the street then keep right to skip by the lines of people waiting for food steer clear of the crowded shelter turning people away then take the next exit let's stop looking away and get in the way of rising poverty your donations help the united way fight poverty

in thousands of ways like providing food shelter and crisis prevention donate today at unitedwaygt.org know that money is also energy and yeah i mean i'm really into all that and like money has trauma too i mean it's interesting me and him both come from families where our dads were doing very very very well until they weren't. And then there was a big loss in, but it's just coincidentally kind of for both of us. And, you know, my dad was bipolar and was always up and down with the money and this, and his dad's extremely pragmatic and practical. And so it's like, once their money was gone, they weren't playing games anymore. They were really tight to the belt. Once my family's money was gone, my dad was still trying to get it back and still go on lavish vacations

to figure out. Yeah. He was gambling, but well, he was, you know, with like, not like gambling gambling, but he was just gambling with life investments, all that. So it is kind of funny how both of us are, you know, I mean, and I know that his family's way is a lot less toxic than mine, obviously. Oh, it's arguable. You know, scarcity is scarcity in your case, in your family's case, there was a decision to be in denial about the scarcity, pretend it's not happening and then hope it changes like the ostrich effect. Yeah. And in his it was shutting down, you know, battening down the hatches and moving into freeze. Right. They moved into freeze and you guys moved into flight in your families. And maybe there's a threat of that running through

like he thinks, OK, if I don't spend anything and I save, save, save, I will never find myself in a situation where I can't pay the electricity bill or don't know how I'm going to put food on the table. And that's the most important thing is feeling safe, right? Where for you, the most important thing, obviously you want to feel safe, but you also want to live your life. So the question is where you can meet in the middle there, where he's going to have to get comfortable with a little more risk and you're going to have to maybe get comfortable with a little less largesse so that you can meet in the middle. And you're absolutely right. Money is energy. So if you are coming at it from a place of scarcity or worry that you're not going to have enough

that can energetically create a self-fulfilling prophecy. But at the same time, you don't want to be irresponsible and just be like, oh, more is coming. So I'm going to spend everything in my bank account. Right. So in a way, we could say that the two of you can beautifully balance each other out. You just have to both be flexible enough and loving enough to find the middle point. And I do find that creating that central pot, especially for someone like him who wants to control the savings, if he can have his own little pot, and I'm not saying when you get married, you don't join everything up. You can, you can't. Some couples do, some couples don't. But as long as he has his little pot that he's in control of, that isn't going to be touched,

that he can count on, right? Then there's this other part that goes into the bucket for the two of you and each of you are going to be, it probably will come out in the wash, right? One month, maybe you're going to spend more. Another month, he'll spend more. But I do find that's a really easy way rather than Venmo-ing each other, right? You have this one pot that all the family bills come from and everything that's in your individual pots is just for savings, which will ultimately benefit both of you and or gifts you may want to buy each other or surprises or things like that and so if you can start practicing that now and navigate through that now then by the time you decide to make this relationship more permanent you've worked through a lot of these

little knots that can come back to haunt you yeah definitely a long-term marriage yeah okay awesome well we're definitely gonna try and it makes me feel better a little bit that this isn't a deal breaker or anything like that, you know, because some of my girlfriends, I kind of tell them about these problems like, well, my husband, like my boyfriend pays for everything, you know, like he never questions me. But, you know, everyone. But that may be someone who's now going to be broke. You can't compare yourself to anyone else. The only caveat would be if he was shaming you or minimizing what you wanted to spend money on or wasn't supportive of you wanting to spend money on travel or experiences.

And I'm not saying you have to go on a five-star private jet vacation, obviously, but if it's within reason, even if he doesn't share the same value, is he supportive of supporting that endeavor and understands that he's supporting your endeavors and you're supporting his when he wants things and to buy things that you wouldn't necessarily want to buy

or care about buying. Okay, cool. I will give it a try. I'll let you know in a few months how it's going. Yeah. Keep us posted. It's a really common issue. And I'm glad that you asked because this is the time that you'll start learning how to navigate things and it'll set you up for success in the long run. Just make sure you're on the same page with that as well as with kids, religion and sex. And then it's smooth sailing. Okay. Kids next. We'll figure that one out. All right. If you want to talk again about that, let me know.

Okay. Thanks. Bye. All right, take care. calculating route to avoid seeing poverty turn left to bypass the unhoused youth sleeping on the street then keep right to skip by the lines of people waiting for food steer clear of the crowded shelter turning people away then take the next exit let's stop looking away and get in the way of rising poverty your donations help the united way fight poverty in thousands of ways like providing food, shelter, and crisis prevention. Donate today at unitedwaygt.org.