Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Power, Culture, and Love's Dance

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

This week, I’m sitting down for a Language of Love Session with a listener who's dealing with some serious relationship hurdles. Picture this: cultural clashes, power struggles, and a partner who's not exactly a cheerleader for her spiritual journey.  Theresa reached out to me for advice on navigating cultural differences and power dynamics with her husband. It turns out that her husband isn't very supportive of her spiritual pursuits and often blames her for their son's misbehavior. Not an easy situation to be in, right?  In this episode, we’re discussing: Why sticking to traditional gender roles and gender expectations in a relationship doesn’t always work The importance of staying true to your passions and beliefs even if they differ from your partner's How to deal with a partner's critical behavior with healthy conflict resolution and boundaries  The challenges of navigating new dynamics and expectations after having children How a relationship can impact a child and why it's crucial to provide a healthy relationship model for them Remember, you deserve to be in a relationship where you're supported and respected. Don't be afraid to prioritize your own happiness and growth. You've got this! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman, and for the last 30 years, I've been helping people learn to love and be loved better. Welcome to the Language of Love Sessions. This is where I get to work with you one-on-one, on air. You, my listeners, my goal in these sessions is to empower you to enjoy better relationships, both with others and with yourself and to help you embrace how precious and sacred your body your love life and your sexuality really is it's time we all become fluent in the language of love okay so um for giving me the possibility to speak with you wow i'm so glad to talk to you tell me

what's going on well I came across to your work I think two years ago and I did this course quantum love that you did together with Catherine and that was really wonderful like I really was glad to join in and I think like I have a almost four-year-old son and my relationship we were always very different my husband like my husband me maybe I should add that we from two different cultural backgrounds he is Italian I'm German and and so the ideas of raising children or the general ideas of yeah of routines of normality are very different and so there we have always returning challenges yeah and since we have our son I think it's gotten even more difficult at times and I realized that very fast I think after our son was six months old I said look I think we

really have to do something to stay connected I think otherwise we are just drifting apart like we can accept the situation but i think we will not grow together we will grow apart and and he didn't like he doesn't really see that and for him it's he just thinks that's how life is like not that you grow apart but did you then just go ahead like just continue yeah and everything that i feel like helpful he listened to some of your episodes that i thought maybe he should get that input and he always says yeah it's also a good point of view but it's not my point of view let me ask you this and then we'll get into what his perspective is versus yours but if you were to summarize the key issues that you're struggling with in your relationship what would you say what

are the key struggles I think the keys is that he likes to really control dynamics he wants to it's a little bit like the patriarchy how it's so he wants to be in charge and be the man of the house and the decision maker primarily yeah exactly and I cannot handle it like I am I was doing twice au pair in different countries looking after many children in my whole life and really enjoyed it and he always gave me a little bit the feeling as if I would be incompetent in what I'm doing and that the house needs to be the job of a woman if he doesn't say like that that the job of a woman is to clean and look after the children but for him it's really important to have a clean house where every like everything is in order otherwise he cannot rest like he's always

in a kind of survival mode and does he help with the cleaning of the house or are you supposed to do oh he he does have like he he's good like he got used to that but in italy it's also not very common let's say like you live maybe until you are 35 with your mom and and then your wife takes over yeah we had a distant relationship for six years which worked well and for me it worked like it was easier because our difference was like everybody had still enough space to be themselves yes and it didn't feel like to be in a continuous compromise trying to make it work Yeah. So you're saying that one of the key issues is around gender expectations and his ideas of how the power should be distributed in the household and whose voice is that it's not necessarily equal voice in the end, but that he is the man, which is a very common in Latin cultures who tend to be more patriarchal. I'm generalizing here, but historically speaking and culturally speaking, that is very normal.

And certainly if that's the way they were raised, if he was raised in a family like that and that was his model growing up and he was treated as a young boy, because in that kind of culture, young boys all the way through manhood are treated as mini gods from the time they're little. So they sort of expect that level of respect and control and power over the others in the household. So I'm hearing that is an issue and it's probably also comes up around the child rearing and his expectations of you. Are there any other issues that are key issues in your mind? yeah i think the like i always try to communicate try find solutions or at last make the topic or try to grow together and figure out a way and often also if there's different ideas about raising our son there's always a lot of blame involved like i said like this and now you did that there always needs to be

somebody who has the fault like it's not that everybody does the best they can but it's that there's this understanding that there has to be always somebody who is wrong and which is not the case

like I don't agree with that and this yeah or to take the blame then always to get saved for example well you don't like for our son can do with you whatever he wants he doesn't have any rules and you don't care and this for me is absolutely like it really hurts me I because I work with so many children throughout my life and also work as a social worker like I do care yeah of course

but when he's upset with the way that your son is behaving he points the finger of blame at you and says, basically, you're a crappy mother because our son is misbehaving or our son is doing X, Y, or Z that he doesn't approve of. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there are a couple of ways to go at this. Okay. But the thing that is most, I think, concerning, I guess, if we use that word for me, is that all of these dynamics, dynamics of power, dynamics of child rearing and finding common ground, which is always a challenge. I mean, Lord knows that was the biggest challenge in my marriage is differences around, it's around raising kids, money, and sex. Those are the, and religion. Those are the areas where couples tend to fight the most and where there's always

conflict if you, especially if you come from different kinds of families, much less different cultures. But the key to moving through those successfully, it feels like is missing here from what you're describing, at least. The key is both of you ultimately being willing to explore ideas different than yours, to be open to learning, to be open to broadening your ideas of right and wrong, of what challenging your assumptions that you've been raised with. You have to be willing, especially if you're going to marry someone or raise children with someone who is not from your identical culture and background if your relationship is going to succeed and this would be the same you know whether you're german american from norway

wherever like any culture that's different this would be happening and seemed to me that he was really open-minded and also i was open-minded we both traveled a lot we met on the other side of Yeah, I know. But once you have kids, all bets are off. This is what's so bizarre to me. And it happened in my relationship, too. And we're still here and we worked through it. But once you have kids, there's two phases in relationships where I where it feels like, OK, you didn't show me this at all before. Like I saw a totally different person. Now what's happening? One is once for a lot of people is once they get that marriage certificate. So I see lots of couples who've been living together for years, totally successfully equal power and roles and rituals. And somehow once they sign that marriage certificate, they become their parents and they are like suddenly, OK, so I see that happen a lot. And then the other place where I see it happen even more frequently today, at least, is with kids. Once you have kids, it's like the stakes suddenly feel really high, especially with your first child when you aren't you don't have experience having had children. And, you know, it's very as you already know, after all, you know, how different is it having your own kid than a pairing for 20 kids?

Right. It's very different when it's your own, just emotionally and investment wise. Right. So it's extremely common to see you can have like he could have been totally equal rights and women's empowerment and open mind. And then suddenly, once he has this kid, he's turning into his father. Right. He now the stakes are different. And that's what's concerning. Not that doesn't concern me because that's just a being triggered into an old way of thinking, because that's the only way, you know, to think. And you have a story that that's right. You know, the only reason we act this way in relationships is because we're convinced we're right. And when it comes to our kids, both of you, right, are feeling like, you know, he really thinks he's doing the right thing for his kid. So the issue isn't that we can work through that. You both have good intentions. the issue is what you're describing is as his unwillingness to consider different points of view or to be open to a different way of thinking about things and a different way of navigating parenthood together and when someone is unwilling to do that then you're stuck

right yeah this is what happened like the since also the course I did with you and Catherine like i continuously navigated for me like i i realized okay totally i cannot like i cannot force him to look at him and all his fears and i i also got astrological mentoring to look in our both charts to see what's going on there and also like did a lot of personal development things and decided to also do our training to be a life coach like a spiritual life coach because this is things that really fill me like things that nourish me yes and so i i just like i i continue on my way and expanding and he is perhaps not and especially like these things that i'm doing like they are scaring him like he rather not have me doing this like what doing this course

For him, it's throwing out money, and he's really sad that I believe in that thing, but I think, well. You mean that you believe in energy and spiritual concepts, and he's more joyous? Yeah, and you look at the moon, and everything is good. And I say, well, yeah, it is like that. Yeah, I look at the moon, and everything's good. Listen, that's okay, right? My husband, my nickname for him is Senor Root Chakra because he is all about the practical and the tangible and thinks I'm a cuckoo bird with all my metaphysical perspectives on things.

He doesn't subscribe to them, but he doesn't criticize me for them or challenge me like he knows not to. And I know not to try to convince him that what I'm believing is right because he's unwilling to believe that, right? But here's the thing in this relationship, and obviously we want to keep, if you can get this relationship to a healthy place, that's the ideal. That's the wish. That's the, that's the prayer that we can, that you can get this relationship, that the two of you can get this relationship back on track for your sake, for the sake, for the soul learning that is to be done and for the sake of your child. And that would be the hope.

So one of two things are going to happen. you're going to continue healing and growing and doing some of the things that I'm going to mention in a second. And either he will come along for the ride and eventually match you there or be willing to or create space for this and a change, create space for the change.

Or you will get to a point where two things happen. One, the pain of being in this state in your relationship will be greater than your fear of leaving it yeah I don't like I don't feel the fear I just feel the sadness for our son like well that's what I mean that let's say not fear the disadvantages that the pain of being in the relationship will be greater than the reasons you're staying basically and I won't spend time here but I would challenge you it's still fear even if you're wanting to protect your son you're

fearful about the impact on your son. So it's still fear. It may not be fear for you, but it's fear for him. So the pain will, will get greater than that. And, or it will just be clear to you that this is the path that needs to be taken, right? So either one of those two things will happen or he will, your husband will rise to the occasion. Hey, it's Dr. Laura Berman. I've been a sex, love, and relationship therapist for over 30 years. And the main question I always get asked is how the heck do we spice it up in a long-term monogamous relationship? Well, if you want to take your love life, your sex life to the next level, whether you're in a relationship or not, check out my free course on quantum sex. It's going to teach you how to take your sexual

response to the next level capable of full body orgasms, how to use sex magic to manifest your dreams and how to connect on an even deeper level sexually with your partner. Just go to drlauraberman.com and you'll find it right there on the homepage, the quantum sex free course. Check it out and let me know what you think. and so here's the path to getting to that point whichever way it's going to go right is to continue living in and living from quantum love so one of the reasons that i wrote quantum love was for myself because i came from a history i'm a recovering codependent so it's really hard for me to set boundaries. It was really hard for me to stand in my power. It was really hard for me not

to be the peacemaker, the compromiser, the one that forfeited my needs in the end to keep the peace, the one that wouldn't speak my needs because I didn't want to have an argument, all of those things. And I was married to a man who was loving and kind and brilliant and married to a man who is loving and kind and brilliant, but very sure he's right most of the time and can be very overpowering, especially for someone like I was. And so I wanted to find a way to find my voice and find my power without having to be in constant conflict with him because that was taking too much out of me and so that honestly is the secret reason for what ultimately became quantum love because that is a roadmap and a toolkit for changing everything in

your relationship by changing what's going on inside you internally and energetically and if you're already on this journey this is going to come like breathing to you now I don't know you know I already listened to to the audiobook good yes I started the second time because I think it's something that you or that I have to re-listen like and it's like not the first time that I hear like also Deepak Chopra he he does really beautiful um meditations on on many different topics and this like this is the thing that I know nothing really can take me down Right. And you can change him by your husband because he, whether he means to or not, and whether he wants to or not, he is deeply energetically entrained to you. So you won't find your power with him with your words or your actions. I mean, that can help, but he will often be in resistance to that. But you will find your power with him energetically by entraining him to you, to your energy. Right. So when he's and that also requires setting boundaries.

So when he gets critical, let's say in the example you gave, your son is acting crazy or got in trouble at preschool or I don't know, did something that was acting out. Right. Or that it was embarrassing for him, your husband. I think he's embarrassed. And then he just can say, I don't want our son to behave like that. but he doesn't know the road. No, he doesn't know. How to get to behavior. And it's not by shouting or threatening or like saying something.

Right, that's how he was parented. And we tend to parent either as we were parented or we parent the way we wish we were parented. So if we haven't questioned or we feel content with the way that we were parented, even if it was dysfunctional, if we haven't really looked at that or connected to that, we will parent our children like that.

or because that's all we know, or many of us parent our children sometimes on the opposite end of the spectrum, right? We're too permissive. It's so difficult. Like also when I was in England, it was always the first question the mom did, were the girls naughty? And I think children are not. They're naughty. They're exploring. They act out. They're reactive. But here's the thing. I think what's underneath your question, there's two things happening when he gets upset about something your son has done one is that you're feeling his criticism of you as a mother and that's painful and hurtful and mean right and unkind and you are worried about the impact on your son of him being angry and yelling yeah right yeah and also this like i always ask myself okay

when is it more healthy to separate in a piece like this conscious uncoupling to separate for the benefit of all like I don't want him to get sick or a stroke for the stress that he experienced because he's then standing like this sometimes and shaking because he maybe would like to hit something but he can and so he shakes himself out letting the energy out I don't know how I can interpreted and I feel so sorry and I like I should just go and hug him and say everything is going to be okay but sometimes I I am so shocked to see it and I I'm frozen like you're having your own reaction right so so it's really that what's going to allow that answer to be clear whether to consciously uncouple or not is how he responds to you changing the game up a little bit

So, number one, he starts yelling and raging. No. Right? So, you very calmly say, and especially if your child is there, you immediately say, no, this is not okay. We don't yell like this. You know, if you want to have a conversation, you're modeling that for yourself. If you want to have a conversation, I think it's really important we talk about this, but I do not, it's not okay to yell. We don't yell in anger at each other.

And if he refuses to do that and keeps yelling, you say, please. And this is whether your son is there or not. You say, please stop yelling. I don't want to be talked to that way. I don't want to hear yelling. I want to hear what you have to say, but you can't yell. And if he keeps yelling, say, OK, I'm going to I'm going to leave now and I'm just going to I love you, but I'm not going to be yelled at.

I'm going to walk out of the room and you do what you need to do to yell, scream, calm down. But when you want to talk to me in a calm voice, I want to hear from you. and you repeatedly set that boundary. Now, he may escalate more, right? But for a second, because he's like, what the hell are you doing? And we'll feel ambushed. But he will learn that there's no point in continuing to yell if the person is going to leave the room, right? And when he criticizes you, right, you can choose to let that land. I mean, I don't know how bad it gets if he's just like you don't know what you're doing or if he's like cutting you deeply to if

he's being emotionally abusive then we you know where he's saying horrible things to you about who you are and your character and your well this he doesn't like this he doesn't he criticizes how i was raised or like how my my but he doesn't criticize okay so it's not emotionally abusive it was that would be a different thing but if he's criticizing something you can choose like that about your upbringing or you're supposed to know about kids and you let him get away with so much and this is why he is this way right you can argue with him but here's the thing and we all need to understand this when someone is in an agitated state when they're in a reactive state or even just if they are convinced they are right about their point of view there is zero benefit to

arguing with them and trying to tell them different. They cannot hear you in that moment. They cannot register it in that moment. You're talking to a crazy person if you think you can't make reason with someone in that state, right? So you're in choice. You can stand there and stay in the conflict where they're not going to hear you anyway. You can leave the conflict or you can transmute the conflict if it's not too unpleasant and you can stay and want to stay. Then you can your body into an energetic state of clarity and peace and love and sit there calmly until they deflate and entrain to you, right? So those are your three options when he is flying all over the place. But certainly when he's doing that in front of your child, I think modeling for your child,

first trying to deflate the situation and then removing from the situation that it's not okay to behave this way is important because in the long run, we know, and you probably know that our kids do what they see, not what we say. So we are modeling for them how to handle stress, how to handle conflict. And in the end, it may be if he's unwilling and unable to shift, it may be that you need to consciously uncouple. And that will be, if he's unable to shift, that will be better for your son because it will be, he'll be living in a less conflictual environment. And at least when he's with you, he will be in a place of peace and calm. And perhaps even with his father, without that state of agitation, he will be in a place of peace and calm.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I think you're already pretty clear on the issues. I think it's really a matter of playing with moving how you can move your body into different energetic states with intention of peace and clarity i mean that's what i was saying about the reason i because i needed to find a way without force to be in my power and i didn't know how to do that as a recovering codependent with this particular partner who was so strong but i think he would really like to have somebody codependent like for him it would be perfect if i wasn't working like i took two and a half years of like i had parental leave for our son two and a half years and i really tell you it was easier

to go back to work now i work still in germany and so when i go to germany i have holiday and work and then when i come come back i mean now he he is then there together with his mom and looking after our son and so yeah yeah so you're right now in Germany and he's in where Italy oh he's in Italy with your son and his mother and is that where you all live but you go to Germany to work yeah I yeah exactly okay yeah so it's easier when you're apart I get that And you may be right that he it would be easier for him if you were docile and deferential to him and let him set the parameters and raised your child the way he was raised. That would definitely be easier for him. That is what he was modeled like.

He had the mom at home. And yeah. Yeah. And a lot of men. I mean, my ex-husband was Latino as well. And the same thing they he was raised the same way. And in theory, it's all good. You know, and they're like, yeah, I'm a modern guy. I want a modern woman. I want someone who's independent. I'm attracted to that. You're sexy because you're so independent. And because until you get the marriage certificate and or until the first baby is born and then you become your parents and all that stuff that you thought you wanted is no longer what you want. And it's really kind of astounding how that happens. But it's extremely common.

So I wish I had like the magic bullet to give you. But to me, this is an evolution you're in and that the best and that you're clear on what the issues are and you know what you want and that this is the only thing remaining is can you shift things inside yourself, both with your reactions to him, the way you respond to him or don't respond to him and what's happening energetically inside you? yeah to feel attracted like because i feel always that the attraction is losing more and more like of course because you're in conflict yeah yeah and there are things you can do right like you have to put coins in the connection bank to counteract things like this right so if you can spend some quality time together if you can have fun together if you can engage together if you can spend time away from your child together if you can go on a vacation together i mean there's ways Because right now you're not feeling like allies. And as soon as you aren't feeling like allies, then the attraction really starts to wane. And it starts eventually to feel like you're kind of living with the enemy, which is the last thing any of us want.

It's not an enemy, but just living for the, let's say, for growing the child together. So he's having the availability of both parents. And yeah. Well, I mean, it sounds like you could almost do that now with your lifestyle. You're gone a lot anyway. So theoretically, you could if you wanted to, you could separate. I'm not saying you should, but you could still write. You know, this is the I just want to say this one thing. I am always as a couples therapist invested in keeping couples together if I can. But I think it's always a mistake. Obviously, we want to do that if we can for the children. But what your children need more than two parents together is two happy parents, two parents that are self-actualized and at peace and have energy to give the child and can model what a loving life

and a loving relationship and an empowered existence looks like. If they have two parents that they have to split their time between who are doing that as compared to two parents who are living together, but miserable and disengaged at best or arguing at worst. That is so much worse for them. Yeah. So don't stay together. No, no, no, this, I totally agree. And if that would be then that I always ask myself, like how, how much time should I, like, I thought, okay, for the kindergarten let's see how it develops within the three years but it's like it's like it's always changing it's not there is also better moments and we do try to do things together we usually go hiking every weekend together and I feel him also less agitated in the nature

nice yeah and I know he needs the ocean and the beach then he's happy so he should yeah live there Yeah. I mean, it's it's a lot and it's a lot to navigate, especially when a child is involved. And it's very different. I mean, the rules of engagement change once very often once a child is there. So I think that is really going to be the question for you, because if it's you know, now he's only three or four, then it's going to be when he's in third or fourth grade, he's going to start having more issues around school and behavior. I mean, I'm just telling you the trajectory of a mother of three boys. And then he gets to high school and he's going to be in middle school. Sorry, middle school. He's going to be bullied. He's going to bully. He's going to have all these social traumas and dramas. Then when he gets to high school, he's going to start acting out and getting in trouble. And this is what they do. So the two of you, it's not like, oh, let's just get him through toddlerhood.

And then things will be peaceful in the home for two parents who have conflicts around and different ideas around child rearing. every step of the way, there are going to be issues coming up. And if you can't get on the same page or be allies in your child rearing and remove the finger of blame, which never serves anyone, this isn't going to get any better. Thanks so much. That was really, really good input for me. And just to hear it from you and for the work that you are doing is just very, very helpful and very enriching. Good. Well, I'm so grateful that you are reading and listening and exploring these concepts because regardless of what happens in your relationship and for all of your sakes, I hope you can find a way to move through this

together and evolve and expand together. But either way, you doing this work is going to serve you so deeply in your life, in your work, in all of your relationships, and in your child's life as well. So regardless of what happened, you moving through this process and finding your peace and setting your boundaries and holding your own frequency and setting your limits and standing for yourself is only going to serve. Yeah, I think with him, I really, really learned to set boundaries because i think that was something that i didn't learn as well and like he pushed me to learn it because if you realize it's unable like you're not it's not able to please him in any way like the house can be shiny everything is cooked and what like and there's still something that you

can pick up that is not right and then you can also just leave it yeah and yeah realize it's impossible like if there's something to be found that is not good you will find it yeah well that's probably his the lens that he's wearing right and he's gonna find if he's wearing that lens and aspects of his life he's gonna wear it with you as well sometimes only with you right because that's where his trigger is but that's not fair and it's not a good model for your child so yeah i mean our relationships are our greatest teacher and it sounds like you are at the very least learning a lot but i am praying that you all find a peaceful beautiful healing solution ideally together but if not together apart in all your power apart in peace let's say all right

together in peace yes peace for all peace for the world and definitely peace for your heart yeah thank you i hope keep us posted okay let us know what happens i will all right much love to you to you too thanks i went to the doctor said i'm crazy for your love wrote me a prescription but there is no cure for