Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Rewriting the Dating Myths with Damona Hoffman

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

Are you tired of hearing the same old advice about love and dating? Are you finding it difficult to navigate the dating world, or finding love in a world of swipes, catfishing and ghosting?  If you are looking for love and want some advice that will change your whole dating game for the better, tune into this episode of Language of Love Conversation, I sit down with Damona Hoffman, a celebrity dating coach and author of "F the Fairy Tale: Rewrite the Dating Myths and Live Your Own Love Story". In our conversation, we debunk the common myths about love and dating and how these misconceptions can hinder the process of finding love.  We talk about: The common myths and misconceptions about finding love Understanding the concept of "butterflies" in relationships The importance of curiosity and attraction in dating Mindful dating and finding partners on a similar level of awareness Exploring different avenues for dating, including online dating, setups, and communities For more insights and advice from Damona, check out her podcast, Dates and Mates, and her book, F the Fairy Tale, which offers hope and actionable advice for navigating the challenges of modern dating. You can find more information about her book and testimonials from satisfied readers on her website, damonahoffman.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman. And for the past 30 years, I've been helping people just like you learn to love and be loved better. Here on the Language of Love Conversations, I'm talking to some of the world's most influential and revolutionary experts, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, and celebrities about love, sex, and relationships from a mind, body, and spirit perspective. And that way, my goal is to awaken your mind, body, and soul. It's time to become fluent in the language of love.

Damona Hoffman is a celebrity dating coach, host of the award-winning podcast, Dates and Mates, and the official love expert on The Drew Barrymore Show. She's also written columns for the LA Times, Washington Post. She's a dating expert, spokesperson for top dating sites. And now she's written a book, love this title, F the Fairy Tale, Rewrite the Dating Myths and Live Your Own Love Story. Damona and I are getting into the dating world today, in particular, some of the myths that you may not even really be thinking about that so many of us automatically unconsciously subscribe to that are getting in the way of calling in the love that we most desire. And we're also getting into specifics about how to navigate online dating, how to get clear on what you really want out of love, and even the specifics of how long you should wait after you meet someone online before you meet in person or just move on. So we're getting into the specifics of how to create your own beautiful love story on the language of love.

Damona Hoffman, thank you for being here. I'm excited to talk to you. Oh, thank you so much. It's so good to see you again, Laura. You too. And we're going to talk about dating, finding love, one of my favorite topics. And Valentine's Day is not that far away.

I definitely want to talk to you. We're going to talk a little bit about how to handle Valentine's Day as a single person because that is a tricky time of year for lots of people. It can be a really disheartening time of year, but I feel like, and I think you do too, that it also can be a really beautiful reset and recalibration to kind of creating a plan for calling love into your life. And I think that a lot of what you cover in the book really supports people, and we're going to get into that, supports people in really finding love on their own terms. The title is Fuck the Fairy Tale. Rewrite your new book. Fuck the Fairy Tale. Well, F the Fairy Tale, she says, guys. It doesn't say F-U-C-K on the book because, you know, she's being polite. The name of the book is F the Fairy Tale. Rewrite the dating myths and live your own love story. And there's this idea of, in the book, obviously, you cover a lot of the common myths and misconceptions that people have about finding love and that also, of course, stand in the way as a result, right?

So if we can address some of the common myths that I'm guessing you guys haven't even thought of if you're looking for love, because these aren't so obvious, that if you address them, you're really on your way. and we'll get into more specifics of how to get on your way in a little bit. But let's talk about some of the myths. First one right with you here is this idea of the soulmate myth. So let's talk about that. Yeah. The soulmate myth is actually, I feel like one of the most prevalent and it actually is the one that you meet sort of later on in the dating process when you have met someone and you start thinking, well, I like this person, but are they my soulmate? And I found that I've been coaching singles for over 17 years. I originally started out as a dating profile writer and then got into the process of coaching people from first date all the way through

relationship building. And I found that this idea of soulmates, which over 60% of Americans say that they believe in soulmates. And yet, I don't know that we know what a soulmate is. And a lot of us cling to this idea that we have read in fairy tales or seen in rom-coms that there's one true person out there. And our job is just to go through all the haystack and find that one needle. And that to me feels really limiting. It feels really discouraging. And then it also keeps you from seeing that person that's right in front of you. You know, when you have conflicts, when you have things that don't align with your quote, perfect vision, then you start to question what you actually have.

Yeah. And I really want to get to that, this idea of seeking perfection. But let's put a pin in that and just talk about, I agree with you 100%. Here's what I think about soulmates is that fundamentally, every relationship you have is a soulmate because that's how we grow our souls. When we're having a relationship with someone else, especially a love relationship, but quite frankly, any relationship. What we're really doing is having a relationship with ourselves through that other person and our interactions and exchanges and dynamics. Like it's all about

soul to soul connection and you can have a million. I mean, hopefully you don't have to go through breakups a million times, but you can have as many soulmates as you do love relationships. And this idea that there's just one person not only screws us up with dating, but it screws us up. I see it on the other side with people who are in relationships that aren't working with them for them. They're like, I thought this person was my soulmate or this person is my soulmate. So I have to stay with them even though they treat me like crap. And even though we're unhappy and they won't change and they won't get help, it really keeps you stuck. I love that. All right. Now the next one, this is a good one to the chemistry myth.

Also, I know as a result of the whole, I love rom-coms, but boy, do they screw up our perspectives. Yeah. We think it's supposed to be butterflies. It's supposed to be the music plays and then we'll just know. And I love the phase. I love the date phase. We're sort of working backwards here from like, I always start my clients when we're beginning a dating process, I start them with the mindset. Then we move into strategy and the search. Then we move into the date. And to be honest, the date is my favorite part because that is where we get to have that self-discovery. And you were just talking about that with these soulmates that we get to experience and invite into our life. There's something we can take away from each and every experience we

have. But I feel like the main things that have changed since I became a dating coach is, first of all, the speed of dating. It is unbelievable now. Yeah. It's like a feast of riches that people don't know how to manage. That is the key. That's the key, Laura, because it's not just the availability of options. Like I talk about this in After the Fairytale, I hear a lot like, oh, oh, the paradox of choice. There's so many options out there that nobody wants to settle down. Really? No one is settling down. Then, you know, why am I getting wedding invitations? And why are we seeing, you know, announcements on social media? And people are still finding love. But the problem is, it feels harder when you haven't put some sort of a container

around the process. And before your listeners say, but Damona, like, I don't want to process when it comes to finding love. And I just want it to happen. I saw the rom-coms that Laura was just talking about. I just want it to happen like that. It just happened, right? Just like a good relationship is supposed to be effortless, not.

Effortless and magic. We all want the magic, but we don't want to show up for it. We don't want to align our thoughts, our actions and our life around that thing that we're going after. And look, I know it's easy with all of the options available, both with dating apps and all the other technology.

When I talk about online dating, I'm not just talking about dating apps. I'm talking about social media. I'm talking about online communities. I'm talking about gaming, like all of these places. I've had clients make matches. And still, I see that with all of that opportunity, we can really get caught up in the momentum. them. It's all those highs and lows that you experience when you're leaning into the chemistry myth that make dating feel so much harder and so much more exhausting and lead to dating burnout.

So what does that look like if you're leaning into the chemistry myth when you say that? Because I can imagine, but just to be clear, are you saying that you're leaning in, meaning that you're writing off that first date if you don't hear the birds singing and like are ready to jump on them in the bar where you're having a drink. Is that what you're talking about? Because the other thing I know you talk about that I get in trouble about every time I say it, people are like, they get really mad at me. But it's completely true, guys, that if you feel butterflies, that is your nervous systems, your body's warning system activated, right? And I talk about that as well. So can you just clarify a little more clearly what it, what it looks like that we

shouldn't be necessarily doing, or that may be limiting us. Let's just say there's no should here, but maybe limiting us or making the dating process harder or less rewarding with chemistry and, and what, what to expect chemistry wise from someone who may actually really be a good match and the butterfly thing. Okay. First of all, everyone has to listen to Dr. Laura when she says you're not going for butterflies. She is correct because the butterflies are really signals of other things happening in our body. They're signals of familiarity. They're signals of lust. You know, we say, I want to fall in love at first sight. There's no such thing that does not exist. It's lust at first sight, not love. And I believe, believe me, I know,

I thought I had it. And I tell stories in the book about when I I leaned into that chemistry myth and I believed in the fairy tale. And I'm like, oh, I felt it. They're the one. Yeah. Well, you found something between your legs, but you didn't. But you need to be attracted. Obviously, you need to find that person attractive. Right. I would even back that up a little bit. I just want to clarify the butterflies thing one step further. In the book, I quote our mutual colleague, Dr. Drew, who was on my 400th episode of Dates and Mates, my podcast. I asked him this very question. He said, look, we don't want butterflies. It's okay to feel butterflies, but we don't want lightning bolts, lightning bolts, that feeling of like, I'm weak in the knees. I can't live without you. I don't know how to go on. That's

different than the anxiety of a first date and meeting someone and the awkwardness and the butterflies of just that anxious feeling that tend to subside. But we have to be able to read our own body cues. I talk in the book about intuition and interoception and really learning your own cues of is this is this butterflies because I'm excited and this feeling has been repeated. I've seen this elsewhere in my life. Or is this the kind of butterflies or lightning bolts where I remember how that went last time. And that's, that's not what I want this time. So really getting clear on our own cues is very important. And then it's that we were just talking about lust at first sight. It's, you have to have some level of attraction,

but I question, it's not all physical attraction. I tell my clients, you want to be guided by curiosity. These are the only questions you have to answer. At the end of the first date, are you curious enough about this person to spend another date with them? And hot tip for your listeners right now, I only ask my clients to spend one to one and a half hours on those first two dates. Oh, okay. That makes sense because you're just having a little taster. You're having a little taster. You're not having too much to drink and regretting it the next day. You're not letting your internal system get activated on that level when you've spent six hours with this person and you're starting to feel bonded to them. And then you've already, you've already written your

name on the wedding invitation. You haven't even gotten the check yet. So keep it brief the first couple of times. And I love that. I love that directive of like, because you may, you're not going to necessarily, I always say that with the butterfly things, when you're with the right person. And this is not going to be something that's clear on the first, second date, right? It's lust at first sight and love at first insight. I like to say that to me, the way that I describe it is that it's not that anxious, like, oh my God, these are weak. You know, we were talking about, it's like the excitement you would feel if you were about to open the door to your dream home that you have designed and you're so excited about it, but it's this feeling

of coming home. It's this feeling of rest and excitement, but also peaceful excitement. And I don't think people, like you were saying, in terms of our body awareness and even our cognitive awareness really understand the difference of that. And it's really worth understanding. Yeah. And you're certainly going to have some feelings, some signals when you meet someone and you don't know if they're going to be your person when you meet someone that you're intrigued by. And the weird thing about dating is everyone wants it to just be easy and magic and to know right away. And I find that over the last 17 years, when clients put a focus and a process around dating and see dating as a set of learned skills, and even around how you're

meeting the person, your own mindset, when you really focus on that, that's when things fall into place. And I know we don't want to, we think of, you know, I hear from all my dates and mates listeners that say, well, Damona, I don't want to do that much work to find love. But then I step back and I think of all the things that I've achieved in my life, all the things my clients have achieved. And I'm like, when did you have something that was important in your life that you didn't have to do any work or preparation or process around. And what's more important? I'm biased, but what's more important than love? You know, you're not biased. You're right. It's at the end of your life, right? What are you going to be grateful for? What are you going to regret?

It's always around love. That's yeah. And the person you choose to partner with really is the most important decision you will ever make in your life, whether that's one person or multiple people. It affects your finances, your mental health, your family, your entire trajectory of your life. Yeah, absolutely. So why not put a little effort in and don't and don't subscribe to this myth that your ideal mate is just going to plop on your lap while you're sitting on the couch. You got to put some investment in. And it's actually so rewarding, Laura, to watch when clients come to me and initially we start with a mindset and I'm like, what are you looking for? And they're like, I don't know. I'll know it when I see it. Or like, I'm just, they'll tell me I'm just not a good dater or I haven't done this. And to see that growth and to see that change. And I know you do this in your work too. It's, it's actually so rewarding. It is for me, but ultimately for them to see that whatever that story was that you've been holding on to about maybe you're telling yourself, I'm too old, I'm too heavy, I'm not the right religion or the right race or in the right location or whatever that story is.

when you're faced with that person and the new relationship that you're building, and you can just let that story that you've been holding go. It's so liberating. And so healing. So let's talk about, because you mentioned this idea of getting, which I think is so important. I just kind of think of it as conscious dating, right? If someone hasn't written that books, maybe that'll be your next one. But conscious dating is this idea of being really intentional about it and getting clear on what you want. And you were referring to the client, which I hear from people all the time, like, I don't, you know, I'll know it when I see it. No, like, what do you want? You're an adult. You've lived a life. You hopefully know who you

are. If not, it's important to discover that so that you can choose the right partner. But how do you advise people to get clear on what they really want out of love to kind of use that as a foundation as they move forward with some of the more specific tools and strategies? Well, we have to begin with unraveling the list myth. That's what I really identified as the first thing people come to me with as a dating coach. They say, here, Damona, here's my list. And it's 20 pages long. 20 pages long. And let me read it to you. He's going to be over six feet tall. He needs to make over let's say two hundred yeah thousand dollars he needs to own his own home he needs to not have

been married before no kids he needs to have a great relationship with his family like i could go on and on yeah it's the same list and there are different variations but ultimately everybody says at my level or greater at my level of education, my level of income, my whatever social status or greater. And here's where it gets really interesting, Laura, because especially I love talking to women about this experience as we have become the writers of our own destiny, which was not the case for so much of history. We have so much opportunity at our fingertips. I mean, there are things that we don't have. We won't talk about that on this podcast. But the fact that we have so much choice, that we have the ability to be financially

independent, that we have all of these tools at our fingertips now to be able to find not just the most convenient match in our local area at that moment, but anywhere, anyone, anywhere in the world. Yeah. All of that opportunity has opened up for us. But with that opportunity comes a lot of responsibility. So I find that this process is really key when a woman comes to me with that list that we have to dial it in because if you are already, women are graduating, are getting college degrees, master's degrees, doctorates at higher levels than men are. That's just a reality of the current state of affairs. And yet women will come to me and say, well, I need to meet someone who's at my education level or higher, at my income level or higher.

A lot of women now have taken the opportunity to get themselves ahead in life, but are still holding on to an old ideal about what the role is of a man or a relationship, whatever orientation you are, gender you prefer today. We have to be with somebody that is at our level or greater. And I think that has to be rewritten. We don't get to rewrite the first part of the equation and compute it and get the same answer. Yeah. Well, you know, I think that's such an important point. And also I'll tell you what I try to help people understand in this list realm is that like, let's just take what you're saying with the education. I mean, this could be a million different things, but we're talking, we're using this example, right? I want someone who has the

same level of education or greater than I do or income or greater than I do. Right. The next question is why? Well, I won't respect them. Well, I want to have stimulating conversation. I want someone who will inspire me to grow. And I'm like, okay, now we're onto something, right? So you want someone who will, let's just take, you want someone who will inspire you to grow. Are you absolutely sure that you need someone with the same or greater education level to you in order for them to do that? Is that really true? Or, and then the next question is even, I think more impactful is like, okay, so let's say you have someone and you're waking up next to that person every day who inspires you to grow and who stimulates you intellectually and who can

match you and have these great conversations with you. How do you feel? How do you feel? Get clear on how you want to feel in love. Throw out the list of requirements and make a list of the three to five ways you most want to feel in love. Is it alive? Is it excited? Is it curious? Is it cherished? Is it romantic? Is it playful? Like, how do you most want to live your life and feel day to day with your partner? And use that as your list.

Hey, it's Dr. Laura Berman. I've been a sex, love, and relationship therapist for over 30 years. And the main question I always get asked is, how the heck do we spice it up in a long-term monogamous relationship? Well, if you want to take your love life, your sex life to the next level, whether you're in a relationship or not, check out my free course on quantum sex. It's going to teach you how to take your sexual response to the next level capable of full body orgasms, how to use sex magic to manifest your dreams and how to connect on an even deeper level sexually with your partner. Just go to Dr. Laura Berman dot com and you'll find it right there on the home page. The quantum sex free course.

Check it out. Let me know what you think. A hundred percent, Dr. Laura. And in at the fairy tale, I actually walk people through that process and many different ways to access that feeling that you were just talking about. some people are more visual maybe you want to visualize it yeah maybe you know I'm a writer you're a writer like maybe you like to write that into a narrative and I give people the tools in this book to be able to do that and then to replace to start replacing these myths that

we're holding on to that it's not our fault they've just been repeated and repeated and repeated so many times to us from our parents from our community from ourselves that we need to be able to unravel that. And I replace the myths with the four pillars of long-term compatibility that I have seen work for the clients in my practice time and time again. So we start unraveling the list myth by first just getting clear on goals. Like, what are you even looking for? And what is, as you were saying, what does that relationship really look like and feel like? And then we start moving into also clarifying values. And that's where it gets kind of tricky and kind of interesting because we're also really interested in shortcuts and hacks.

Yeah, I love the hacks. Values are hard to suss out. So that's why this process really takes time. And the current landscape of dating being so rapid is sometimes working against our true nature. Yeah. Well, you know what I love about your approach and what you're teaching in the book and in your work is that you're going to find love and you'll be guided through the process of finding love, but you're always going to be attracted to and attract in someone who is at your same level of awareness and emotional development. That just seems to be what happens, even energetically on a quantum level. What you're offering people, first of all,

it's foundational and fundamental to finding the kind of love that you really want and that's sustainable. But also, you get this added benefit of self-discovery and self-actualization and clarification for your life in general, not just, you know, because most of us have never really questioned what is it that I really want? What are my values? What do I stand for? What's most important to me? Like that's going to that can be a thread that feeds your work life, your friendships, your family life, all things in addition to your dating life. So even if you don't find Mr. or Mrs. whoever right, which you will through this process, it's worth doing the work, that foundational work to get ready for love and to get clear on what you want out of

love, because either way, it's going to serve you tremendously. I mean, if we could all do that, boy, would the world be a better place? Totally. And I'm really on a mission to do that with this book. But I actually want to ask you a question because you made me think of something that came up recently on Dates and Mates where I and I've been getting this question actually in different forms a lot lately where a lot of women in particular are saying that they've done the work like they took the pandemic. And there's a lot of research that shows how people spent that time in isolation. A lot of women are saying, I took that time to get clear on myself, to love myself, to go inward and to do the work. But then I go online or I go out to a bar or party and I

find that the people that I'm talking to don't seem to be on that level and they're feeling like the dating pool is imbalanced. And I just really want to know what you think of that because you just said you attract someone sort of on your level, but I'm hearing from people. They're attracting folks that are not on their level and they're not knowing where to find the people that are on that same journey. Yeah. Well, so we're going to get into some of the logistical stuff that you advise people. I want to definitely get into online dating with you and some of the pitfalls there and how to navigate that more effectively. But I think I've been saying for some time that we need more mindful dating, right? Like there's meet mindful, I think,

and a couple of them out there, but there aren't a lot and they don't have really big pools of people in them. And I think it's a myth that there are more women than men who are awake, which is what you're talking about. When you go in and you do this deep internal work, there's a level on which you emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, and energetically wake up in a new way. And so you want to meet other people who are also awake. And so you're not going to meet them at the club. You're not going to meet them at a dinner party that your friends who aren't awake are having, right? Because they're inviting and engaging with other people who are like them, right? And that, so you have to start, this is one of the trickiest and most

lonely parts of waking up is that often the people who you used to relate to and who you were friends with and had fun with, you know, it's not that you stop loving them, but you stop relating to them. Right. And there's a pause. And I think that's what I love this piece of COVID, how it, I mean, I feel like on a metaphysical level, the powers that be were like, okay, you guys are spending too much time on the hamster wheel. No one's waking up. It's time to stop going out and go inward. And this served a huge purpose for humanity, but we have had this mass awakening as a result. So the good news is that there are many, many, many people. Yes, your dating pool may be smaller than it was when you didn't need someone who could meet you there, but there are

many, many people. And there is always, and this is what we're seeing because the pandemic didn't end that long ago, right? There is always a pause when you wake up where you're in between worlds, between who you were and who you used to relate to and your new tribe coming in, including love. And so I think what you're hearing from people is they're struggling with the pause. They're not relating to the world they used to be in, but they haven't yet attuned to, manifested, and found and called in the world that their tribe. That's always a lonely, scary place. And that's where we collectively are right now in human history, in our lifetimes, right? But that's going to be shifting. There's like a mass momentum happening. So I would say to those people,

definitely start seeking, like logistically start seeking groups, events, programs, retreats. Go to a Joe Dispenza thing with thousands of like-minded people. Go and explore some Mind Valley stuff and some of their big retreats. Go to some events that speak to you. Start making friends in that arena, they will start introducing you to mindful people that you can date and you'll meet those people there. Right. So you may have to change your environment, but you're not going to find the person in the same world you existed in before. I knew you'd be able to contextualize this for us beautifully. And I 100 percent agree with you. And I think sometimes we forget that there are so many avenues still available. It's funny to me because when my husband and I met

online 20 years ago, 20 years ago, Laura, and I know when people were like, wait, was online dating around then? Yes. I had already been online dating for years when we met and I had all my systems and processes down, which, you know, I can tell a couple of tips today, but of course more is in the book. But when we met, it was, it was definitely a different time and the the way that like you could search based on a lot of the qualities now we've become so reliant on this swipe technology it's just like feed me another one feed me another one that we forget that we can go out that we can ask for setups that we can use all of these other other communities yeah able to fill up our you know our dance card

So while I am a huge proponent of online dating, I've worked with OkCupid as their official dating app, dating expert and spokesperson. And I've worked with a number of dating apps and I love them. And they're the most powerful tool in your dating toolbox. It is a must do for all of my clients as part of their dating portfolio, but it is not the only thing that we can be doing. But we are seeing even from like OkCupid data that people really,

a lot of people thank the lord sought out therapy during the pandemic i don't know why we weren't doing it so much before but you know like all the online therapy apps like skyrocketed yeah there there weren't enough therapists to go around and now people are saying as you were describing like we can wake up not just spiritually but also just mentally and people are saying i i've done the work. I want somebody also who has been in therapy or is in therapy or doesn't stigmatize therapy. And she's that's a huge shift from the time when I grew up and a beautiful shift. And guess what? Put that shit in your dating profile. I mean, you know, like what you're looking for. Get really clear. I mean, I have a girlfriend who's 68 years old. Gorgeous has been single

for a long time, ready to find love. Maybe I'm going to hook her up with you. Ready to find love. She loves love. She's the coolest person, one of my favorite humans on the planet. And she's been resisting online dating and finally says, okay, in January, we're going to write my profile. I'm going to do it. And we were talking about it. And I was like, you can put in your profile, like I am looking for someone who wants to grow spiritually with me, who values emotional growth and the power of therapy and like you can put them you you would word it better than I you're the expert but you can put that front and center right then the only people that are going to answer your your swipe are going to be people they people just swipe based on the picture they

don't even look at the profile but the people that are going to respond to you will know what you're looking for and they will be aligned with that yeah the people who engage with you are going to be aligned on your level. And of course, Dr. Laura, of course, I have templates and I have examples of how to really tell your story through your dating profile in a way that doesn't use a lot of characters. People think when I say storytelling in your profile that I mean long. No, it can't be long because no one has patience to read anything online. And also, you can tell your story visually, too. I mean, having a picture of yourself, meditating in front of your Shiva statue or something like that, that will speak louder than

a lot of words saying the same thing. You are right that a lot of people swipe on the picture first. And I've rewritten hundreds, if not thousands of profiles in the many years that I've been doing this. And one big shift that I help people realize is that the profile, it's just the entry point, right? We just want to bring the folks into the conversation. So it's just like your, it's your resume. It's, it's the calling card that gets people in the door. And then it's just a filtering process from that point forward, but we're not chasing likes. It's not Instagram. We want quality. We want engagement. We want connection. And that has to happen in the DMs. Hopefully you're not in the DMs too long. I'm talking about, we're going to talk about that. Like how long, because this is what I'm

hearing. And I mean, obviously this, you hear every single day is that there's this feast of riches, such a huge pool, which I think is part of it that people don't know how to manage it or how to treat it with empathy and respect. And they also just that what they do is they kind of breadcrumb 20 different people at once. And so when you're the one that's, you know, you're not doing that. You're really wanting to find love. And that person is just staying on DM or staying on text without making any plan or putting the rubber, you know, on the road or whatever that saying is. And then they'll sometimes kind of upscale you and give you this illusion of progress by saying, let's move over, you know, come over to my DMs on my social media. Like, no, if they

haven't yet made a plan with you, right? So at what point do you say, okay, because I have this two-week rule. Like if you haven't made a plan in two weeks, unless they live in Timbuktu and like are coming here in three months and you can't possibly get together, fine. But if they haven't made a concrete plan to meet in person in two weeks, that's my litmus. But I want to know what yours is. I think you're very generous for giving me. Yeah. I say one week, one week from the time you match to the next phase. So that next phase may be a phone call. We've forgotten that phone calls are an option and have been a game changing tool for my clients over the last 17 years, because you can tell so much from a real time synchronous conversation and from hearing the

tone of their voice. There's so much more context in a phone call than there is in a DM or text thread. Yeah. Call it the texting trap, Laura. It's a trap. And it does a few things that are really detrimental. It makes you feel a false sense of intimacy. You feel like, oh, this person's really clever. We have a banter. I'm excited. I get that little boost of adrenaline every time I get a message from them. And then we're like ticking ourselves. The adrenaline is going up and up and up. And then when we actually meet them in person, there's nowhere for it to go. But interesting. OK, so go from phone call to zoo. How long should you be talking on the phone? Like at what point do you have to frickin like meet face to face, for God's sake? Oh, no. You

get one screening, screening step, I call it. So it's a phone call or it's a video chat. Okay. It's been interesting, the evolution of video chat from the pandemic to now, but I still believe in a screening step. It's also dependent on what generation you're in and your, the, the preferences, but just doing that call will save you a lot of time. But at the end of that call. A plan needs to be made. And here's what I really want people to take away from this part of the conversation. You are in control of your dating destiny. Remember, we've talked about this before already. The old rules no longer apply. Right. And if you're starting to apply these ideas of chivalry or gender roles. Those all need to be released. Set aside. Yes. Release them back.

So you're saying it's okay for a woman on the call to say like, hey, I would love to get together. I've really enjoyed this conversation. Are you interested in making a plan? Like that's okay to do. Not only is it okay, it is encouraged. And my question to clients is just, well, do you want to continue to be investing in this person? Is that how you want to spend your time? Do you want to spend your time in the texting trap? Do you want to spend your time in DMs? And there's this false idea that, oh, if I DM with them for a month, I'm going to know, then I'm not going to waste my time. Yeah. You are wasting a lot of time in your process of not wasting time. You are. And we're not adding up that that the one and a half hours that you're going to spend

with them in person. Yeah. You're not adding up all of those good morning texts, all of those DMs back and forth. And then also, as we were saying earlier, the emotional roller coaster that you're putting yourself on, which is which is chemically and neurologically addictive as well. So it kind of kicks in this dopamine, which is a chemical of addiction, and it gets into this cycle. And not only is there nowhere else to go, but you start attributing and assigning all this meaning to this person. And then when you finally and then they ghost you because they've been breadcrumbing a million different people or you meet and it's just there isn't a connection in person. I will say this. I started to say this before you met your husband 20 years ago on a dating app.

I met my husband 21 years ago on a dating app, but not him. I had finally entered the dating app world because I had a colleague who had met her person that way. And I finally took a step in and there was this guy that I was DMing with who was hilarious and cool and his picture looked good, whatever. I had made like three different dates with him and kept canceling, chickening out and I'd come up with some excuse and I'd sworn to him that I was not going to break this date. And lo and behold, this guy from my childhood who I had met once, you know, like a few months before in adulthood and been like, whoa, he's hot. You know, I'm interested in this guy shows up in town and is like, I would love to get together with you and your family. And I was like, so

excited. It's on the time of the date and I can't cancel it. So I do the thing I promised and I go on the J date and I've been completely catfished. This guy is not at all his picture. He's still hilarious and he's still kind, but I couldn't bring myself. We were supposed to have drinks and dinner. I didn't know about the hour and a half thing back then. And I was cringing because right down the street, this guy that I really was interested in was having dinner with my parents. So I'm like, why don't we just have a drink? My family is right down the street having dinner. Let's go say hi. Cause I didn't want to miss the guy that I was really interested in. So I took my online dates to meet the man that would become my husband. Oh my gosh. I love

that story. I can't believe I haven't heard that story from you before. Oh my gosh. Funny. That must've been awkward. Not for me. My, my husband and I were just like staring at each other and my date just proceeded to get wasted. And then the next morning, my mother said, he asked where you were. And we told him you were on an online date. And this is what we used to think about online dating 20 years ago. It was like for the losers who couldn't get a date anywhere else. Now it's commonplace, right? And so he said, that's why I resisted it for so long. I didn't understand that that was just some stupid myth. So he had, I guess, subscribed to that myth too. But he said to my mom, she's way too amazing and beautiful to be online dating. And she repeated

that to me. And then I knew he was interested. So that was the beginning. I love that story. And a hundred percent, it was, it did not have a good rep. When my husband and I met, we did not tell people that was how you hit it. However, I had realized that this was like a treasure trove. No one was talking about it the way that they're talking about it now. But when I signed on and I was like, wait a minute, I can make sense of this dating process. I can also apply all these skills that I've been building in my professional life. I thought that was really interesting because you were a casting, like a casting person. So you really understood like the first impression and the photo and the, so you applied all of that, right? Yeah. I worked in casting for CBS television

And I would teach classes at night for actors and how to market themselves and how to ace their auditions. And I saw the similarities when I was online dating between a headshot and a dating profile photo and a first date and an audition. So I just applied what I already knew. But I tell my clients from all different industries and all different work and life experiences, use it. Use all of those experiences that you have and take those transferable skills that you're developing, whether you're a great salesperson and you know how to describe a product and how to get people excited about it. use those skills to describe yourself, whether you're just really hardworking and you always show up and be the reliable dater, apply those skills that you've developed, but put a process around dating so that it really feels a little bit more in your control because there is so much that we can control. And yet I feel like in this momentum that we're caught up in, and we've talked about rom-coms, but we haven't even scratched the surface of what social media is doing to our relationship expectations. And when we can release that and remember that we are writing

our own love story, we get to decide, do we want to stay on that date? Do we want to also go to dinner? Or do we want to go back and be with our parents? And you don't even have to take the guy. I was too much of a people pleaser to be mean to him. Look, we're all on a journey, Laura. This is an evolution. I'm not a people seeker anymore, by the way, but I was back then. Well, and that's kind of the point that as we are going through the dating and relationship experience, we get to learn and grow. As you were saying earlier, we learn about ourselves. And what I really aim to do with F the Fairy Tale is I say it's not a how-to book. It's a why-how

book. Why is dating so frustrating today? And I'm fully acknowledging from all of the clients that have come to me over the years, from all the questions I get on dates and mates, I understand it is definitely, it feels more challenging than it ever did before. But I want to give people hope and I want to remind them that they have more control over what happens to them than they may think right now. And you do get into it. Yes, that is all absolutely true. But you do give really tangible, actionable advice, which I always appreciate. Boy, I mean, we could keep going forever. But you guys definitely read the book F the Fairy Tale and check out Damona's podcast, Dates and Mates. She's taking questions. You take a lot of questions on there from the audience

and is giving advice. And if people want to find you, do they, what, obviously the podcast and the book, but what is your website? Or we'll make sure to put that in the show notes too, but tell us. Yeah, I'm at Damona Hoffman

on all of the socials. And I also have, if you go to fthefairytalebook.com, just the letter F, I come from broadcast TV, so we keep it clean. fthefairytalebook.com, that'll take you to my website.

And then you can get all kinds of goodies, more info about the book. You can see who else has read it and loved it. Dr. Drew, as we were talking about earlier, Drew Barrymore, all my friends, celebrity clients, and just, you know, real people who've been through this experience and been able to turn their lives around, their love lives around by understanding the myths and replacing them with the pillars. Beautiful. I love it.

Thank you so much for being here and for helping all of us F the fairy tale and step into real love. Thank you so much. Thank you.