Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Seeing the Signs From Our Loved Ones with Elizabeth Boisson

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Losing a child is an unimaginable pain—one that breaks you open in ways you never thought possible. When I lost my son Sammy, my world shifted in an instant. Sammy was my light, my joy, and his absence left a void that words can’t capture. Yet, in the depths of that sorrow, I began to uncover something profound: a path not just to survive the loss but to carry his love forward. Sammy’s spirit guides me, teaching me that even through the greatest heartbreak, there’s room for connection, growth, and purpose. In this episode of The Language of Love Conversation, I sit down with Elizabeth Boisson, a remarkable woman who turned her grief into a global movement. Elizabeth, the co-founder of Helping Parents Heal, shares her deeply personal journey of losing two of her children and how she found healing by helping others navigate similar heartbreak. We explore:  The powerful ways our loved ones in spirit remain connected to us  How our spiritual connections with our dearly departed loved ones can be a source of comfort and strength Methods and practices for staying connected with loved ones in spirit, including meditation and writing Insights into shared death experiences and soul plans The challenges of discussing grief and finding supportive connection I hope this conversation moves you as deeply as it moved me. Don’t forget to connect with Elizabeth on LinkedIn for more wisdom and insights into transforming grief into hope. If you’re navigating the difficult journey of loss, I invite you to explore my Good Grief course, available on my website, where you’ll find tools and guidance to support your healing. Additionally, Helping Parents Heal offers an incredible community and resources for those seeking comfort and connection. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman. And for the past 30 years, I've been helping people just like you learn to love and be loved better. Here on the Language of Love Conversations, I'm talking to some of the world's most influential and revolutionary experts, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, and celebrities about love, sex, and relationships from a mind, body, and spirit perspective. and that way my goal is to awaken your mind body and soul it's time to become fluent in the language of love elizabeth boissan is the president and co-founder of helping parents heal it's an

organization devoted to doing just that helping parents heal from the loss of children she has four beautiful children herself, two of whom are in spirit, Chelsea, who passed when she was two days old, and Morgan, who transitioned at the base camp of Mount Everest in Tibet while on a university exchange program when he was almost 21 years old. Now, Elizabeth has spent several years in India. She's lived in France and in different places around the world. She is a beautiful example of turning her pain into purpose, having created an organization with tens of thousands of members, all devoted to helping parents heal. So whether you're a parent who has lost a child or anyone who is experiencing grief, I think you're going to find this conversation really

inspiring on the language of love. Elizabeth Boisson, I'm so excited to have you join us on the language of love. Thank you for being here. Thank you. So you like me, you call us shining light parents, which I think is beautiful, but you like me have been through the tragedy of losing a child, not just once, but twice. So your two angels, Chelsea and Morgan, I'm wondering if you can tell us the story. I would love to. And thank you for asking. I always love talking about both Chelsea and Morgan. And it's kind of hard normally with families and friends to talk about these kinds of things. So it's always nice to be able to have someone who's been through the same thing and who understands. And I was living in France. My husband was traveling overseas all

the time at the time. I had been in the hospital for two months because I was having contractions with Chelsea and this was between 1990 and 1991 and I already had Morgan which was wonderful but Morgan was with my mother-in-law and he was having terrible asthma because he was allergic to cats we didn't know it at the time and he was living in a house with two cats and so I was very worried about him he wasn't breathing well every time that I would see him which was only once a week about. I could see that he was going downhill. Chelsea was born and I had her by C-section and she only survived for 72 hours. And the reason that that happened was that I lost my water in the hospital. I knew that she wasn't moving. I could feel that she was moving less

and less, but my gynecologist kept telling me that we needed to keep her in me as long as possible. And he wasn't even really present. And so basically what happened was that when she was born, she was still alive. They put her into the NICU unit for 72 hours, which is the most that they ever do in France. And she transitioned after that. So it was a very, very hard thing for me. But at the same time, getting back to Morgan and being able to spend time with him again, was absolutely wonderful. My husband had to leave for Reunion Island immediately after this happened because he was waiting with all of his business trips to be able to leave. So I was alone with Morgan. I actually had an episode of coletic nephritis. I'm not sure if that's the right

word in English, but it was from the catheter. And luckily in France, they have SOS Medecin, which is a group of doctors that go house to house. And so I was able to get antibiotics. I was cured of that. And I truly believe that after the passing of Chelsea, I was able to move forward and heal. Of course, I missed her. Nobody wanted to talk about her at the time because I was in the south of France with family members that weren't actually my family members. They were my husband's family members. If I did try to bring up Chelsea, even getting just some kind of remembrance in the cemetery was very difficult. No one wanted to mention her. And then fast forward to having, well, I had two beautiful daughters after that. So I was

very fortunate to have these two daughters who are now 31 and 29. So I've had a wonderful life. But then Morgan was studying at the University of Arizona. He was a cheerleader. He was one of the most gregarious outgoing people you'd ever meet. He was and still is six foot seven. He had a heart to match. Everyone called him Big Bear because of the huge bear hugs that he would give. And he had already been in China studying for a semester when he was a sophomore. He wanted to go back because he loved it in China. He loved Nanjing and he was excited about doing so. He was a Chinese Eastern Asian studies major.

So he spoke Chinese. He spoke French fluently, obviously, because he grew up in France and he wanted to be more fluent in Chinese. So the day before he left for China, and this was in August, he turned to me, he was packing his suitcase and he said, mom, I don't think I'm coming back from China this time. And I said, Morgan, why would you even go? You have plenty of credits. This is crazy.

Why don't you stay here? You can cheerlead. You can go back and forth from Tucson. We'll be able to see you more. And he said, no, mom, I'll be fine. So that was the first time that I have ever even considered the idea of a soul plan, but that was something that kind of sent me on this path of understanding a lot more than I do now.

And then he left for China with a group of 13 other students. They landed in Nanjing, and then for the first break that they were going to have, he wanted to go to Hong Kong because my husband has an office in Hong Kong. He wanted to be able to see Hong Kong. He had some friends from the program before who were living there. And we were worried that he wouldn't get a visa to get back into China. So because of that, we said, aren't there any things happening during fall break for the students? And he said, yes, there's a trip to Tibet. I would love to be able to go to Tibet. And two other professors were supposed to go on the trip with him. And they were going to be teaching about the economy. I mean, they had

already been teaching about the economy, the social system. The whole curriculum. Yes, everything was was planned so that they could learn as much as possible about Tibet. They had to get visas. They ended up going. And I thought, OK, this is great. There are two other professors with him. There are 13 students. He's not going to have any trouble with a visa. But they landed in Lhasa without the two professors because they decided at the last minute that they weren't going to go and went from 11,000 feet in altitude to the next day they rented a bus to go directly up to the base camp of Mount Everest in Tibet, which is 18,000 feet. So it was way too much altitude in one day. The kids that were on the bus were throwing up. They were actually urinating on

themselves morgan was taking care of everyone yeah i mean and it's because there wasn't an adult responsible there was a chinese tour guide that was pushing them up the mountain because he wanted to get up to the top before uh nightfall and there's yurts up there you know these this camp area so he wanted to get them up there i don't think that he realized the danger but morgan was acting like the big brother because he was the one who spoke the best Chinese, but his height played against him in the altitude sickness. Because if you are closer to the gravity, you aren't as affected. He is this really big guy, you know, six, seven. So he went to sleep early that night. He took some NyQuil because that's the only thing that he had. He had a

terrible splitting migraine, and he's never, ever had a migraine before. And then the next morning when the kids tried to wake him up, he was foaming at the mouth and not responsive. So one of the kids who was on the program, who has a mom who's a doctor in Washington State, called her and she said, get him down the mountain as quickly as possible. So these kids, Morgan was 280 pounds, by the way, six foot seven, 280 pounds. They loaded him on the bus. There was almost no oxygen available. And they started down the mountain. And as they were starting down the mountain, this was when I had gotten a call from the person who's the head of the program who's in Nanjing. And he said, Ms. Poisson, we're having a problem. Would you like the phone number for one of

Morgan's roommates. And I said, please give it to me. I didn't know how serious it was though. And then I called Colin. And at that moment, they had stopped the bus because Morgan had stopped breathing completely. So they pulled him off the bus and they were attempting CPR, but these kids didn't know anything about CPR. They were just basically kind of doing their best, whatever they could and I feel so my heart goes out to all of them and Colin said to me and as soon as I got him he said Miss Poisson it doesn't look good Morgan's not breathing we're attempting CPR but I don't think it's going to work and so I said to Colin please put the phone up to Morgan's ear. And when he did, I said, we love you. We're proud of you. And don't be afraid. And right then

I had a shared death experience with Morgan. And I had never even heard of what a shared death experience was because even though I had heard of Dr. Raymond Moody, I had never read any of his books. What happened to me was just incredible. In fact, I was sitting in the office with my husband, and I was talking to Morgan, and he thought Morgan was still alive from the way that I was interacting with him. And he said, let me talk to Morgan. And I said, honey, I'm sorry, or I said it in French, je suis désolée, je ne pense plus qu'il soit là. So I said, I think that he's no longer there. I gave him the phone. And of course, he broke down. my two daughters who had gone to a fear farm because it was right near halloween down in

phoenix my youngest daughter called my eldest daughter and said morgan's died you have to come home which was probably the worst thing that she could have seen so my two daughters were in the living room just on their knees crying my husband and their their boyfriends were there my husband came out of the office. They were all wailing. And I said, wait, wait, wait. No, please don't do this. He's okay. He is 100% okay. And I know this because I felt him. I felt this enormous hug. And it was one of the most incredible things for me. And I feel that I shared his transition with I shared that joy and that beauty of going to the other side and seeing all these people. And I've heard from other people, and I know that a lot of people who've had children transition

think, why didn't I have that right away? I think it was because Chelsea, from what I've heard, was the first person to greet him. She grabbed his hand and led him to me to give me that hug. and I she facilitated it yeah and so I have so many I mean that was such a beautiful story thank you for sharing it and I got a little emotional because I remember the whispering in the ear part you know that was just really touching and beautiful but most importantly these guys are used to me crying so it doesn't matter I'm a big one for crying out loud when you love it

but so there's so many things that I want to unpack here. And you know, this, my peeps here are definitely spiritually curious. Many of them are spiritually active, but we talk about this stuff all the time, but this isn't everyday conversations for most of them. So I want to unpack some of what you talked about in terms of, first of all, this shared death experience, Because what you're saying, I think, is that, and you probably learned this later from a trusted medium who told you what actually happened, but from what you're describing, while you could have and might have otherwise been on the floor with the rest of your family, you had a full physical, emotional, and mental awareness that his spirit was with you and the joy and the release that he was experiencing as he transitioned to the other side. Exactly.

You were able to experience that with him. And I shared it with him. And it's interesting because, as I say, I didn't know anything about it. But my first book that I read the next day was Life to Afterlife by Dr. Raymond Moody. And he also writes about shared death experiences. And in fact, the video that I saw, I just Googled shared death experiences, the video that I saw with him talking to Paul on this, they were walking through the forest in UC Santa Cruz, Paul Perry, excuse me. I looked at the date of the video and it was October 9th, 2009, which is exactly the same day that Morgan had his shared experience. So what I was going to say more than that though, is that I got into a study with William Peters

and he does the shared death experience. And he works at UC Santa Cruz as well, as well as with Dr. Raymond Moody. And he interviewed with a bunch of other university colleagues, lots of people who have had these shared death experiences. And I'm saying this because there are so many people out there that don't necessarily know that they've had this shared death experience, but it is something that they love to be able to catalog. So I was in his first book. They recorded me and they took down all of the information about it. And they said that it was a little bit different than most shared death experiences because most of them happen in a close proximity. Mine happened across the world, which was pretty amazing.

And it's interesting because I have been told, I never really knew what this was. I had a very different. I didn't have the experience you had until much later. I mean, not much later, maybe a week later. And I wouldn't categorize that as a shared death experience. It was more, you know, I've shared this on your platform that we're going to get to in a minute, but I had a very metaphysical experience that these guys have heard about in my latest update about my journey with Sammy. But I was also told that another version of a shared death experience is when you leave your body. Yeah. I don't know if that's a shared near death experience, But when Sammy was, after I found him and my husband was doing CPR and I did the same

thing, whispering in his ear, and then I was not saying you can go and you're going to be okay. I was just saying, I said all the wonderful things and I was just, just breathe, you know, try to breathe. I was just, and then I left my, like I could see myself from the top of the room. I left my body and I never, I thought it was a trauma reaction, which maybe it was, but someone has recently suggested to me, which I'd never heard about this because I'd never heard about a shared death experience before this person mentioned that that is a version of

either a shared death experience or a shared near-death experience or something like that. I certainly, in that moment, did not feel the joy of the release and the transition because I was still so hopeful that maybe they would be able to revive him, and I was just in fear and praying. But one of the things I wanted to ask you about, just about you, because we're going to get into the journey that you've had since then and the ways you've turned your horrible pain into the most beautiful purpose. Were you someone before this happened that was really involved in the spiritual community or was aware of this kind of stuff? Or did that start after Morgan's transition? Well, I think that it definitely started after Morgan's transition. but I was always very spiritual. I had lived in India for five years. I would say that I've

always been vegetarian because of living in India. I was studying yoga teacher training while I, right before Morgan transitioned, I was just about to become a yoga teacher. And so I think that there were a lot of things going on in my life that were supposed to be happening for me to be able to move forward and heal. And I must say that the immediate reaction, and I know that you've turned your pain into purpose immediately with Sammy, by trying to help with this fentanyl problem, which I just think is so incredible. For me, what I wanted to do was to be able to find other parents who have had these shared death experiences with their children, or just be able to find other parents who have had children transition, because in my

friend group, I didn't know of anyone who had had that happen. And I felt so isolated. And I would have his football moms, you know, all of these really close friends and my book club, come over and bring all different kinds of meals, but they kind of look at me in this very sad way, and not know what to say and especially not know if they should say something about Morgan, because I think that they felt that if they did, it would make me sad. And of course, you know, just like all of us know that maybe it'll make us cry a little, but it just is such a wonderful thing to know. It's such a wonderful thing. And it's so hard when, and which is why I think the support piece is so important. And the community piece of other parents or others who have lost is so important.

And I'm always pushing for that because regular people, let's just say, or people to whom this hasn't happened or people who aren't really even familiar with tremendous loss are really intimidated by it. They don't know what to say. And like you said, they will avoid the topic altogether, or they'll tiptoe around you, or they'll eventually need you to be okay. Or sometimes you'll end up having to comfort them because they're so upset over what happened to you, which is so ironic to me. So you were starting to say that you were called really quickly to reach out and to start finding a community of other parents whose kids had transitioned. Yes. And I just want to say one other thing. I think it's adorable because

I know that this happens for a reason, but I remember right after Morgan transitioned, they were doing a special game for Morgan. Oh, his birthday just came up on my phone for Morgan. And his coach who loved Morgan more than anything came rushing up to me to hug me. And then he just turned the other way. It was like, yeah, he could handle it. And then I would see people in grocery stores who would be some of my very close friends and they would be coming towards me with the caddy and then just turn the other direction because they just don't know what to say. And it's not something that I am upset about.

I understand where they're coming from because you and I probably wouldn't have known what to say until after Sammy transitioned and Morgan transitioned. but I do think that there is a lot of work to be done to allow people to understand that we love talking about our kids. So going back to what you said, the first thing that I wanted to do was to find a group of parents who have had this happen. And the best way that I could think of at that time was to start it on Facebook. So I started it on Facebook five days later. I wanted to find out about other parents' shared death experiences. I wanted to find out about the signs that their children were sending them because Morgan was just over the top at the time. And then I also went to other support groups to see if I could find some other parents in those

areas. But at the time in 2009, all of the support groups didn't want to talk about the signs. They didn't want to talk about anything spiritual. So if I went into the meetings and I would say, oh gosh, Morgan just sent me this incredible bobcat today. People would say, well, we don't talk about that here. And so I thought, okay, I definitely need to do this someplace because there are so many parents that would be coming up to me in the parking lot saying, I'm getting signs from my kid all the time. How can we do this? And so our first meeting, which was about a month later, ended up having 25 people from

all over the valley. We also had Mark Ireland, who was living here at the time, who had just written a book called Soul Search, Finding Where the Dead Go. And it was about his son, Brandon, who passed on the McDowell Mountain Range, which is also a mountain, you know, it's a area where there are mountains. So he was one of the only people, and he still is, although I have one child who passed on Mount Fuji. But it's very rare to find children who have passed on a mountain. And so we kind of got together and formed the nonprofit after that. And so that's what led to what is today or the seed that led to what is today helping

parents heal. So let's talk about that. And then I also want to go back and dig into soul plans and some other things that I wanted to dive more deeply into. But let's talk about helping parents heal. Tell us about that. Okay, I would love to. I've accomplished a lot in life.

but most of all, being a mom of these three. When I lost Sammy, grief cracked me open in ways I never imagined. And yet, with support and healing, I've transformed in beautiful and unexpected ways. Now I'm sharing everything I've learned with you in the Grief Healing Collective. None of us were meant to do this alone.

Join me, not only in healing, but stepping into the beautiful metamorphosis that grief, when we're supported, can offer us. so helping parents heal now is worldwide we have groups throughout the united states and canada and mexico as well as the uk and south africa and norway and sweden as well as arab emirates so Dubai and India has a huge presence as well as New Zealand and Australia. And we're available with Zoom meetings for everyone else that isn't able to join us in those meetings. Most of the meetings that we do overseas are Zoom meetings anyway, because it's such a large area. Although

we do have a lot of in-person meetings in the UK, but it's really, really important for, and then we also, as you probably know, we have Helping Fathers Heal because they definitely heal in a different way than moms do. We have Helping Siblings Heal, and we might be able to talk about the ways that they heal and how it's different, but they meet, the Helping Fathers Heal meets every single week. And again, they've just written a book about their experiences, but we also have a lot of different healing modalities. So we have groups, we have about 207 groups now, and some of them are not specifically in a location. We have groups for meditation. We have guided meditations as well. We have yin yoga and yoga nidra.

We have a group that's called Connections with Our Loved Ones in Spirit, which is specifically for automatic writing and lots of other modalities. We have Art for the Heart because we believe that art is a really wonderful way to be able to move forward and heal. And the people who do this, both in person and online, do it to connect with our children in spirit through art. We have sound healings and sound baths every single week, which are wonderful. Andrea Curry was actually at the conference as well.

And where she was doing the sound healing, we had the video of all of our kids. It was looping through. We have two S-L-G-B-T-Q-I-A plus rainbow children as well. So these are kids who transitioned, who obviously were lesbian or they were gay. L-T-Q-I-A. Yeah, exactly. And it's so wonderful because we have special mediums who do readings for them because we also have readings for the sibling group, but we have other ones that are reserved just

for this group, which is really wonderful. And they were also part of our conference this year. We have spiritual tools for healing grief. So that is also, or just for healing, excuse me, that is also something that includes lots of different healing modalities like the pendulum, like yoga nidra, that they ask someone every single month to come and talk about the ways that they can heal. and again the helping fathers heal and the helping siblings heal excuse me and special interest groups like moving forward after suicide because even though we don't believe that there is any difference in the way that a child has transitioned unfortunately parents feel that way and they also feel that it's important for them to be able to speak to other people who are in the same situation because society is sometimes kind of hard that way.

So we have addiction. We also, it's actually not called addiction. It's called substance use and all different kinds of groups that- And they're in person and online. And it sounds like, you know, cause I went to the conference. I didn't really know what to expect.

I went as with Anita Morjani, who was speaking there, who's a dear friend. She's like, you need to come with me to this. And we always, I was like, let's go. But what I, there were 1200 parents there whose kids, and I think you do this every two years, if I remember. Yes. And what was interesting is that you have, I mean, I know a lot of, and some, many of them come on this show. I know a lot of really exceptional mediums at this conference. It was primarily mediumship. And I thought it was so cool because there were like concurrent sessions that were like for two or three hours, five different rooms going with different mediums in them, which is great because then almost everyone can get a reading at some

point. But there were mediums there that you have vetted, many of them. There were people like Anita who have had near-death experiences. And there were some people who have either had near-death experience or have had a child or some sort of healer and have learned from that. But this slant, which I think is really important from what you're saying, and it was really the inception of all of this for you, is focused on this idea that our children, any loved one who transitions, not just our children, are still here in energetic form. Energy can't be created or destroyed. So they are still right here beyond the veil. And so, so much of what it seems you're doing is providing a forum for parents, in this case, parents, but I think it could apply to anyone

to really understand that, to learn ways to stay in communion and in communication with their children, to not only get the tangible support, but to get that spiritual support in a kind of one-stop shop, which I think is really cool because you have the online support. But then I met lots of people there who, I guess, run groups for you, for the organization in person in their towns. They can start, I guess, a Helping Parents Heal support group of some sort in their community, which I thought was really great. The spiritual piece is probably at least 20% to 30% of the healing. There's a lot that needs to be done with the body. There's other things that play a huge control in healing. But once you really start to understand the truth of what I'm saying,

that they're still here and you can connect with them, that is like a huge leap I find for people in the healing space. So I feel like that's something really unique and special that you offer. I just wanted to give that little shout out. And it's true. Yes, I agree that the spiritual side and the spirituality is really, really important. But we also offer one-on-one, we have caring listeners who speak 11 languages and there are 36 of them around the world. And I think that it's really important. They are not trained professionals, but they are there to listen. And again, it's so hard to find family members or community. Just for the sake of time, I have other things I want to get to. One, which I promised I would get to, was the soul plan, which I believe in as well. And I think anyone who has lived long enough, you won't necessarily call it a soul plan, but once you've lived long enough, you start to see how the fact that I've been training in this way to be a yoga teacher ends up being a key facet of the work I'm now doing in this way.

right? Nothing to do with grief that we can start seeing the way everything in our life has led to or fed into something else. And in my mind, the soul plan is something that starts before we come here, but it's kind of in the same vein. So I was wondering if you could speak to that for a moment, because I feel like that's a really important. I would love to. And you know, it's, it's really interesting because when I first, when Morgan first transitioned, I heard about the soul plan And I thought, that's ridiculous. There's no way that we would have planned that before Morgan was born or Chelsea was born.

Who would ever think something like that? And it's very, very interesting because the longer that you go down this road and you discover different things about the afterlife, the more it makes sense. And I truly believe that there is a soul plan for each of us. And I think that there's wiggle room. I do believe that we have free will, but everything that we decided with our kids, with our loved ones in spirit is ultimately going to happen. so this actually allows us to sit back a little and tell ourselves okay i'm not the person who's

running the show i just have to go with the flow and realize that being kind loving everyone that i meet being able to help as many people as i can on this journey ultimately will fulfill what I need to be doing in my soul plan. And I actually think that it's fascinating. We've had Rob Schwartz on to speak to Helping Parents Heal several times. And of course, he wrote some of the first books about soul planning, and he's got four out now, I believe. They're really interesting. And again, if you are in the first two years, maybe, of having a child pass, you might not want to read it just because you might tell yourself, this doesn't resonate with me. There's no way that this could have happened. I don't know for you.

What was it like with Sammy? Well, I, like you, did not thank God. I did not come to his death. I was already deep on a spiritual journey. And actually, I have this beautiful memory. I'll probably start crying again. But I have this really beautiful memory with Sammy and his brother, Jackson, his little brother, Jackson, when my mother died, which was my worst, most horrible, impossible loss that I could have ever imagined before losing Sammy. And that happened about 10 years before he died. And that was really the beginning of my, what I call reawakening. Cause I was really awake as a little kid.

I saw things, heard things, had all kinds of things, but everyone treated it like I was making it up and I started to get really scared and I just shut it down. But after she transitioned, I, you know, really, that door really opened. And then I got breast cancer cause I didn't properly grieve, I feel, you know, and that inflammation kicked in. And so I had to really stop my life, which once again was retrospectively a beautiful gift because it forced me to stop this crazy hamster wheel I was on and really take a deep dive. Also, my kids starting to lose it because this was the first person they had really loved and known that had died or passed. And I now had breast cancer and was going through chemotherapy and bald and all of that.

So they were all freaking out in different ways. But I remember Sammy and Jackson were in third and fourth grade and they said to me, so what happens when you die? I said, look, I don't know because I haven't died. No one's, you know, come back, totally come back. You know, people have died and almost died or died for a little bit and come back and talked about it. but I can tell you what I believe. And what I said to them was something along the lines of before. So we go back, you know, to oneness and we meet all of our relatives and all our loved ones that are on the side and it feels wonderful and it's so beautiful. And everyone who dies goes through that. And I said, but I also think that we have a plan when we come here. I was like, so like Before any of us came here, we all got together and we said, okay, you're going to be the kids, I'm going to be the mom, and there may be some things that we need to learn.

So maybe we would choose families that would maybe be harder because we'd talk, some of their friends were going through, maybe we chose families that were harder because our soul had some things to learn, or maybe we have certain experiences because our soul kind of wanted to. This is part of the plan. we wanted to learn these things while we were here. And so my littlest one, Jackson says, okay, mom. So when you die, will you wait for me so we can come back and be a family again? And I, of course, you know, didn't explain to him that on the other side, there is no time and I

won't have to wait. But like I just said, yes, I will absolutely wait for you. And then Sammy looked at me and said, I must have not had much to learn because I chose parents like you. oh that's so beautiful what a wonderful thing for him to say i know and i go back to that a lot i think it's important also to understand that when we see each other again on the other side it will be as though not one second has passed well and they're they're able to participate in everything that we're doing we can participate if we feel their hugs and if we're able to participate with them. But another thing is that I think that a lot of people, a lot of people in my group feel that, first of all, that obviously they have to show the grief to be able to

show their child that they really cared about them, which is completely the opposite. They want us to be happy, healthy, and whole. But second of all, it's really important to understand that even if you do express grief and if you are sad and if you just can't get out of bed for months and things like that, it doesn't affect them. They see the end plan that's going to be happening. So nobody should ever feel badly about either spending a lot of time in grief or not spending very much at all. Either way is fine. Our kids ultimately only want us to be happy and they high five each other when they see a smile. So if we're in a meeting and we're smiling, they all high five themselves. Beautiful. Totally believe that's true. And I actually had,

I think, I can't remember if I shared this with you or not. There were lots of meditations and guided experiences at this conference at the Helping Parents Heal thing. And I had an experience where I met, which I do often in different ways, but I met up with Sammy and he was showing me all kinds of stuff. And I said to him, you know, I, cause one of the assignments and, you know, as we were going in, like, maybe there's something you want to ask them. Maybe I was like, Sammy, I don't, I can't think of anything to ask you right now. And I was like, starting to pay. He's like, you know, you ask me stuff all the time. Don't worry about it. And I, and I said, but I do have one thing to ask you because I'm working on a grief book now, my first grief book that

I've written. And I said, I do have one thing to ask you. Are you going to help me write this book because I would love your help? And he looked at me with this like kind of adorable, bemused expression. And he said, Mom, I was always going to help you write this book. And I knew what he meant along the lines of the soul plan that we talked about, that where he is now, he sees the whole thing and he understands it just like all of our loved ones do, you know, in ways that us in human form aren't meant to understand or it would affect our human experience. So at much less can we understand until we get there. So I thought that was really beautiful. That was a lovely little gift among others I got while at your conference. So beautiful. Yeah. And that

must have been with Dr. Mark Pitstick when you were doing that after life connection. And I love those. And it's so nice to be able to, we do those with our parents quite frequently, as well as he does special breathing to be able to connect with our kids as well, which is a nice exercise as well. But I was worried in a setting like that. Sometimes it makes you a little nauseous to do this. Yeah, I've done that before. So it's a beautiful organization. You're doing beautiful work in the world. You're helping. Well, you're helping parents heal. You're helping so many. And sadly, it feels like there are more than ever with all the crises, you know, mental health crises and fentanyl and everything else that's happening.

So there couldn't be a better time to have this resource available. I'm going to make sure that we put in the show notes, all the links to helping parents heal and also to all the books that you're referring to. I think we didn't even have time to get into the dads, which is a whole other conversation because they really do. Men in general tend to, I'm not to stereotype, but they do tend to grieve differently than women just because of the way we're wired and socialized. So I think that's a beautiful offering too. But any final words that you want to share before we go? I would love to be able to just read a page from this book. Is it possible to do that or do we have time? Let's see. Okay. Let's see if we don't have enough time. That's okay. At the end

of this book, which was the first book that came out and is based on the documentary by Craig McMahon, I have a list of how to heal from the passing of a child, which is one of the things that's really important to helping parents heal. Know that your child is not gone, which is something that we've talked about. Take one breath at a time, then one minute at a time until you are ready to move forward. Everyone's journey is different. This is very important. Don't compare yourselves to anyone else as you are unique, just as your child is unique. Know that your child is happy, healthy, and home, and we are still in school, and we have so much to accomplish before we hug our kids again. But for now, they walk beside us, holding our hands and leading us

toward healing. Surround yourself with friends who understand. This is really important. Our kids in spirit are all friends with each other. It is they who have connected us here on earth. So I think that one thing that we try to do too much and when we've had a child pass is to hold on to the same people that we've been with forever. This is a chance to evolve and find people who are really your family. Be kind to yourself and to others. Express gratitude. This is something that's really important. Every morning I do that when I wake up is to express gratitude for everything that we have. Express forgiveness for yourself and for others. And I think that a lot of parents have a very hard time expressing forgiveness to themselves. Live each day in honor of your

child in spirit. So I know you're doing that with Sammy. And I think that that's really important for everyone to just remember, this is the reason that we're living. We're living it so that they're proud of us. Raise your vibration, eat healthy plant-based foods, practice yoga and meditation, take long hikes outdoors, take your shoes off and connect your feet to the earth, use crystals and essential oils, use sound meditation and breathing exercises. And again, practice kindness wherever you go and the last one learn to communicate with your child in spirit through automatic writing guided meditation the pendulum dream visits mirror gazing forest bathing reiki and much more we can all do this and our kids are high-fiving each other each time they see a smile beautiful

that was a beautiful way to end in a beautiful summary thank you so much elizabeth for being here and for who you are in the world. Oh, I'm just so grateful that you had me on here. Thank you so much for coming to speak to our group as well. Everyone loved to hear you speak. And I know that Sammy is very, very proud of you. Thank you. Thank you so much. But there's no cure for a crush All I wanna do, I wanna do is take you home with me I wanna make a move, I wanna make a move But I'm too shy