Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Sexual Shame & The Myth of the Perfect Labia

Episode Date: August 17, 2021

On today’s episode of “The Language of Love,” Dr. Laura Berman talks about sexual shame and why so many people are uncomfortable talking about sex. Why is something so natural and so fundamental to the human species so taboo in our culture? And how can we start to break down those barriers and normalize human sexuality? Next, Dr. Berman talks about how aging can impact our bodies and our sexual response. Although there is no such thing as a ‘sexpiration date,’ and older people can desire and benefit from sexual intimacy even in their golden years, the truth is that as we age, our sexual response can become complicated. Your genitals will change in appearance as you age, but this doesn’t have to be a source of shame or low self-worth. Many women may be tempted by the idea of ‘vaginal rejuvenation,’ especially as they age and notice changes to their labia, but these operations come with lots of potential downsides. Not only are these vaginal rejuvenation surgeries totally unnecessary, but Dr. Berman says they can actually harm the nerve-rich tissue in your labia and actually detract from your sexual pleasure in the future as well as cause physical pain and dryness. The bottom line is that genitals come in all different sizes and shapes, and it’s time we start empowering women to love and cherish their vulvas rather than judge or critique them. “What’s most attractive to men is that sense of confidence and comfort that a woman has in her own body and her sexuality,” Dr. Berman says. “They are not analyzing the length of your labia or how they’re sticking out or not sticking out.”  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm Dr. Laura Berman, a sex and relationship therapist. And for the past three decades, I've been helping people learn how to love and be loved better. That's what we're doing here on The Language of Love, where I get to answer calls and emails from people just like you. My goal with The Language of Love is to help you discover more meaningful emotional and physical intimacy and to help you build more awareness of how precious and sacred your sexuality really is. Be sure to email me or reach out with your very own love sex relationship questions, and I might just answer them live on the air. It's time we all become fluent in the language of love. Laura, why don't we start by just, let me ask you this question. Why are people so afraid

to talk about sex? What is the reason that we feel so afraid of this subject matter that you have made a career talking about love, relationships, and sex? Why are so many other people afraid to talk about it? Yeah, I think another question is, why the hell am I so comfortable talking about it? I think it's more the norm to be uncomfortable than the exception. I think it has to do with, we weren't always that way. I think we really started in this country in particular, you know, with the Puritan movement, you know, in our history. But, you know, it used to be even during Victorian times, you couldn't even show the feet of a sofa, you know, the legs of a sofa, because that was considered too risque. It was something,

you know, there are lots of theories as to why as a world in many cases, except in those most indigenous communities that aren't very westernized, those communities are very comfortable with their sexuality. It's really more of a western ideal, and it usually is a form of control, using shame as a form of control, and it just becomes part of our culture. So in our universe, most of us were just raised socially, environmentally, and in our families to be, you know, that's not something for polite conversation. That's something if you don't realize or you haven't been chastised about that, then you certainly get the feedback around you that other people are uncomfortable if you talk about it or bring it up. And I didn't really

realize how unusual I was until probably I got to graduate school and I started realizing that all of my professors and my supervisors were uncomfortable with the topic. Like I could understand my college roommates being uncomfortable with the topic of sex, but I couldn't believe that my supervisors in couples therapy and my professors, there was only one professor that was really comfortable talking about this stuff. That was really astounding to me. And actually, that became the topic of my doctoral dissertation, trying to understand what it was that predicted for a clinician's willingness and ability to address sexual concerns. Cause I, I just couldn't understand how you could call yourself a couples therapist and not, or any therapist and not at

least have a comfort level with sexuality, which is such a fundamental, I mean, it's why we're all here for God's sake. So true. I have one follow-up question. What can we, or what I guess should we be doing to make it more normal to have these conversations as an individual who maybe is a little bit intimidated or afraid to have a conversation about sex? What can we proactively be doing to, I guess, lower that barrier that we put in front of us to allow us to talk more freely about it. Yeah, I think it's really, there's two pieces, you know, there's the inhibition piece, right? That if you're someone who's uncomfortable with just the very idea of sex, that, you know, and just talking about it, even to yourself or to your closest friends or to your partner

is really uncomfortable for you, then that's one thing. Then there's the second piece, which is about authenticity and what I'm seeing happening in the world post-COVID, post-Black Lives Matter, post, like, with everybody sort of saying, me too, like, with everybody saying enough is enough of this bullshit, you know, let's get real about what's really going on underneath the surface and have these tough conversations. I think now is the time more than ever, you know, not that I'm comparing sex to Black Lives Matter. I don't mean to do that. But I think we've come to a point in our history as a community and as

individuals where we don't want to pretend anymore. And it's taking too much of a toll on our psyches and on our community to keep things under the rug. And so I do think it's a decision and it's part of the decision to live a more authentic life. And sex is obviously such a fundamental part of everybody's life, right? So that's like what's happening today. And what I would say to you is, you know, as an adult who maybe wants to get more comfortable, you start with those lowest stakes situations, your best friend, your partner, you know, someone who you feel really comfortable with and who you don't think will judge you or freak out if you bring it up. But I also think it's really important. And I wrote a book on this called Talking to

Your Kids About Sex. That's the name of the book. But I think it really also starts with raising our children to not be ashamed, teaching them the correct names of their body parts. This is your nose. This is your elbow. This is your penis. You know, it's nothing weird and bad to say, teaching them, you know, that they can ask questions through your reactions than your normal reaction and your adequate answering of those questions. You know, there are all these messages that we're got that we get from day one that at the very least, this makes mom or dad uncomfortable, if not gets us punished. So I think it starts when we're little to normalize that comfort level. So right. And I definitely appreciate the fact that you've proactively

made efforts to help people understand the importance of talking to children in a way that they are body parts. That's what they are. And I think we all can learn from the lessons that you teach. And I think as a parent, we owe it to our kids to normalize the conversation as much as possible. So we're going to go to Darlene. Darlene, in your bio, you say you're open to conversations about life, sex, and comics. So clearly this is a topic that you feel comfortable talking about. Fabulous. Thank you so much. Hi, that sounds like a good band name. Life, sex and comics I like that well my comic book is called the wacky sexy body mechanic ah and I owned a coffee shop for five years in downtown Victoria it was a very small coffee

shop we had about 10 seats and all of the conversations were very intimate and everybody was allowed to say whatever they needed to say and we had people from teenagers to old retired lawyers and you know like just a gamut of people and being able to speak freely about how you feel about sex or don't feel about sex or don't want to talk about it you know like just having the ability to be whoever you are however you are was really great so yeah we need more of that I'm a La Leche League leader so I've been um I don't know if anybody knows what that is it's a breastfeeding support group that's been around since 1956 and generally the people in our in our realm we do talk to our children about their body parts as though they are you know the wacky

sexy body mechanic that is this and this is the way that it works and you know you have penis push-ups and that's just how your penis works every day you know it just does that thing and it's totally fine that's that's just your machinery you know so yeah that's what I have to say for now well thank you and I'm a big fan of Laleh Jay I did some work with them when I way back when I was in graduate school, such an important international organization. But yes, thank you for that. And thanks for weighing in on this conversation and for contributing to the open dialogue about this topic, because it really does start with us. And I think you make an important point that it's, you know, in small groups, right? It's much easier to talk in a

more intimate setting. But we learn, you know, that this is not polite conversation. This is not something, especially for women, nice girls do. Although if you hear a bunch of girlfriends talking to each other about sex, things get extremely raunchy among ourselves. But we all pretend that we're very... My husband walked into a conversation I was having not long ago with a girlfriend. He was like, whoa, you guys get raunchy. But most women don't do that in public because that's not something nice girls do, which I mean, not that we have to go around being raunchy all the time, but we certainly should feel comfortable talking about one of the most fundamental aspects of human nature and the reason we're all here. Thank you for that.

The other thing that I'm passionate about is sex with the community that is having some sort of disability and how they manage their sexual relationships in life. I had a spinal injury when I was 16. And so, you know, it's like things work a little differently. It's not bad or wrong or whatever. It's just different. Right. And so being okay with yourself and the limitations that you have sexually is interesting. And then finding out other people that have, I had a friend who was a quadriplegic and, and if I share too much more, everybody will know who it is. So, but you know, just their experience in life and how they manage things was very interesting as well. And all the more reason to be able to communicate. I have several friends who work, you know, with populations that have gone through spinal cord injury or have other disability. And that's one of the biggest hurdles is getting, just like everyone else, getting them comfortable even talking about this topic. And then we can start troubleshooting and accommodating and coming up with solutions. So it starts with the communication on all fronts. Thank you for that, Darlene.

Should we go to, is Jude next? Jude? You know, I like this topic, Laura, a lot. And I've interviewed quite a few for television and TV talk, a lot of sex therapists, by the way. And you don't hear as many, maybe it's just I just don't see it, but you don't hear a lot about people talking about sex. And I had a conversation not too long ago with a psychiatrist friend of mine. We were having lunch. And he said that the longer that couples stay away from having intimacy, from making love, having sex, then the harder it is to get back to it.

It's kind of like if you haven't done it for a while. Anything else, if you haven't done it for a while, any habit, going to the gym, not that sex is necessarily a habit, but when you fall out of doing what you like to do. And I read, and you may know about this, Laura, that I was reading that during COVID, instead of having people having a lot of intimacy, there was actually less intimacy. because of COVID, because kids were home, there was more responsibility, there wasn't quite the allure. Right. And more stress. Exactly. But here's something cute that I want to leave you with that at least I got a kick out of it. It was in the Wall Street Journal about this 83-year-old woman went into a sex shop because she wanted to add a little excitement to her life with her lover, her partner. And she said that no one really wanted to help her, even her girlfriend

who went with her to help her to know what she should be purchasing. And I got a really big kick out of that because I thought, here's a woman who's seasoned, shall we say, at 83, and she's still looking for ways to spike up her sex life. And I thought that was pretty fun to add some spark. Absolutely. I'm leaving that with you, Laura. Okay, thanks. I've had a lot of clients through the years who are in their 80s and want to either spice

things up or getting back out there to speak to your comment around use it or lose it kind of thing. It's not only physiologically, especially for women, we can start to get atrophy in the genital region and sex gets more uncomfortable when we're not kind of keeping the plumbing going with arousal and sexual contact. But also between a couple, you know, it's sort of like this valley builds when you haven't been sexual in a long time and it can feel hard to cross that valley. But I also agree that you make an important point around comfort with talking about sex and the media's influence. It's always ironic to me that you see sex all over television, explicit sex scenes on primetime television shows. But on talk shows and news shows, they barely scrape the surface. And when I've done I mean, I remember years ago, I was doing something around female sexual dysfunction, like challenges women face physiologically from a sexual standpoint. And I was going on the NBC nightly news to they want to talk about it. But the producer beforehand told me, and I've heard this many times, actually, that I couldn't say orgasm on television and I couldn't say vagina. And I said, OK, well, can I say penis? Oh, yes, you can say penis, but you can't say vagina.

And then the orgasm thing, I remember doing a show about a segment about arousal aids, but I couldn't say orgasm. And I was like, well, what am I supposed to call it? And they said, I don't know that special place that a woman gets to. The big O. Yeah, I couldn't even say that. I mean, I couldn't even allude to it because they're so scared of, you know, losing advertisers or offending someone. And it's like a self-propagating thing. If you're like the millions of women out there and the people who love them whose sex lives have been negatively affected by chronic urinary tract infections, I wanted to tell you about a product line I discovered called Eucora. Because people don't talk about this enough. UTIs can happen due to menopause, pregnancy, so many other factors. And so many women struggle with this and go to the doctor repeatedly and then end up avoiding sex as a result. Uquora not only offers UTI relief and proactive urinary tract health supplements, but they have a whole learning center on their website with research and information for you. So get proactive about urinary tract health with Uquora. Right now, Uquora is offering 20% off when you go to Uquora.com slash love. But hurry, because it's a limited time offer.

Go to Uquora.com slash love and get 20% off your order. That's U-Q-O-R-A dot com slash love. What a double standard, too, that you can say penis, you can't say vagina. I know. That's why I asked them. I was like, well, can I say penis? And, you know, that was my test. I wasn't planning on saying penis, but I wanted to know if I could.

That's crazy. And I could. I'm so glad that Jude brought that up. I have actually a follow up. How do you determine what the right amount of sex is when you're in a relationship? There may be, and I'll speak from my own personal experience, and I've shared this with you openly before. Yeah.

I am definitely more inclined to want to have sex more frequently. I think that's fairly common for men than my wife. And so there'll be times where we'll be doing it on a fairly regular cadence. And then there'll be other times where there's this long stretch. And what Jude described, I feel that. When it goes a long time, I feel that. And so do you have any suggestions for finding the sweet spot, so to speak, when it comes to how frequently?

Yeah. I mean, it starts to feel awkward and then it's awkward to initiate. And then there's this distance built between the two of you. And I think that's really common. So is there like a golden rule? No. How often you should be having sex. But in an ideal world, you really want to be doing it, you know, having that level of intimacy in a in a love relationship at least once a week.

Ideally, you know, you could probably push it to every two weeks. It depends, obviously, if you have a newborn baby, you know, or you're going through a really big crunch in your lives, you know, maybe not. But on average, it's really important to keep that sexual connection consistent. And we've talked about this before here and other places, Billy. It's really important to schedule it. A lot of people balk at that because it's supposed to happen spontaneously. Once again, the media is really irresponsible that way, implying that in long-term relationships with children, sex is even going to happen spontaneously, which it rarely does. so you know I think that's ideal now if and the other piece of your question is and what happens if there is that time period and you are feeling awkward you know I think in general and this also refers to sort of talking about sex in general but including when there's an issue in your sex life like the frequency isn't there or it's been a long time and you're feeling awkward and you it's even more awkward to pretend you're not feeling awkward so that's where the authenticity

comes in, like, listen, you know, you say to your partner, listen, I, this is like an awkward conversation. It's not easy for me to even have this conversation, but it's been a long time since we've been intimate this way. And I really miss you and I miss our connection. And I'm not even sure how to ask you about it, you know, and just outing the awkwardness is much better than pretending the awkwardness isn't there and trying to push through it. Right. I totally get that acknowledge that there is a certain amount of awkwardness that exists instead of sweeping it under the rug and pretending it's not there. With that, I want to go over to Kina. Well, first and foremost, I just was curious about this, but I'm now fascinated with this

conversation. Yes, it's more than 30 years in financial services. In fact, I'll actually be on a podcast tomorrow, certainly not talking about this particular topic. But I did learn today a couple things and I also wanted to talk about the fact that I'll be turning 70 next year and I'm and so we bring a wealth of experience good and bad but today I learned a couple things that I think is important one is to appreciate the unique the unique value a human can bring I never really thought about that that much and to also be curious but the two things that I've learned in my almost 70 years that we never talked about, and I wish they would have, was the two Ms, menopause and masturbation. You're right. You're absolutely right.

Thank you for agreeing. So when I was taught about all the things that we can do wonderfully in terms of experiencing your body, your first sex opportunity, your first boyfriend, The one thing that they failed to bring up in the conversation was menopause. And I can't stand gravity. I'll take that all the time. And what they don't explain to you is what happens to your body as time goes on. Obviously, we live in a very cosmetic world. I know I'm very suspect to it.

I love cosmetics. I love to look good all the time. But the one thing I cannot change is gravity. And as my body changed, to be perfectly frank with this group, I not only could not accept it for a long period of time, it affected my level of professional confidence. It affected my social well-being and everything that I thought about myself. So I really wish someone would have said, you know, when you turn whatever age it is, your body is going to change. What changes were what I was supposed to expect? I didn't realize the droopiness, the dryness, and all the discomfort.

They should have included that in the conversation. So I'm thinking, you know, this is the way it's supposed to be. And just recently, and I was with a group of friends, I said, you know, I don't look the way I feel. You know, obviously, I'm going to be turning 70. So for the first time, and I know nothing about it other than going into a doctor's office, I said, you know, I'm going to find out about a vaginal rejuvenation. No, don't do it.

All right. Well, there you go. All right. So let me just stop you right there, because what you're saying is so important for a couple of reasons. One, you're absolutely right. I mean, my first book, actually, that I've written nine, my first book was called For Women Only, and it was addressing all the medical and physical.

You know, it was mind-body, but for the first time it was really addressing, you know, no one really addressed the medical or physical causes of sexual issues in women. And obviously menopause, which I wrote a tremendous amount about, is one of the primary medical or physiologic reasons why women struggle with sexual response, dryness, difficulty getting aroused. And then, of course, are the body image issues that evolve for all of us, men and women, you know, but especially women, since we have a, you know, men seem to be seen as sexier and debonair often as they age, you know, and women not so much. So I think that's more of a commentary on the power structure of our society than anything else. And I also have been noticing a shift over time as more and more older actresses and models are saying, oh, no, like we baby boomers are not going to pretend we don't exist anymore after 50, especially when we have another 50 years of a healthy, active lifestyle.

And you're not going to tell us, you know, that only a woman who looks like she's in her 20s genitally and physically from the outside is attractive. We're not going to accept that anymore. And it really does start with us even more than it does because I guarantee you any partner you're with is not analyzing your droopy labia, you know, that gravity might have taken a toll on. Only you are worried about that. And the sensation and the arousal is still there. You may need some hormonal support. You may need added lubrication. There are medical interventions you can do to support your changing body. But I am a huge naysayer to vaginal rejuvenation. And they prey on people just like you, Kina, who think that they're not desirable anymore because their

genitals don't look like a 20-year-old airbrushed picture in a magazine or online. And the truth is those surgeries are cutting into tissue that is piled to the rim with nerve endings and blood vessels that are central to your sexual function. And when they go in and cut and tuck, I can't tell you how many women have come into my office now struggling with pain, severe pain. They can't even have intercourse or dryness. And it's also doing a surgery that, you know, very likely is going to interrupt whatever arousal you have left, not to mention a totally unnecessary surgery because you're the only one that sees it or thinks, you know, I remember this crazy woman. I mean, she wasn't a patient of mine, but this crazy woman talking to me on the street once

about this. And she said, she said, I have droopy labia, you know, and I said, well, how do you even know you have droopy labia? Because when you're lying down or when you're looking at yours. She said, I put a mirror on the floor and stood over it and saw that gravity had happened. And then I later found out that this is a really common occurrence. Maybe you've even done this. Oh, absolutely. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion dollar swings, the end of jobs, or the end of human struggle, we see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com.

Okay. Well, so how often are you standing? I mean, I know you may, I'm just going to be frank, or perhaps maybe you'll sit on someone's face, but how often are you standing over someone's face? You know what I mean? Where they have a bird's like a perfect view. Like they don't, you're either lying down or you're on your, you know, they aren't seeing the effects of gravity on your labia. So do not cut those beautiful things. I'll be honest with you. I'm totally obsessed with it. And I look at it nightly. And I don't have, I don't ask my husband to hold the mirror up. I figured out a way that I can look at it all by myself. But yes, nightly before I go to bed. Oh, that makes me so sad. See, I think this is about something else. You're you're channeling all of your fears about aging to your poor little genitals and and making that the litmus of your desirability as a woman and a human being. And, you know, I assume since you're with a husband, it's men who you're attracted to. And I can tell you that what is, you know, I'm not a man myself, but I certainly talk extensively and maybe some of the guys can weigh in as you come up here and confirm or

deny this. But what's most attractive to men is that sense of confidence and comfort a woman has in her own body and her sexuality. and they are not analyzing the length of your labia or how they're sticking out or not sticking out. And I encourage you to go and check out, even on Instagram, I follow this woman. Let me see if I can find her as I talk to you, but she posts photos, not photos, paintings, but she takes real pictures that people send her of all kinds of genitals. Because believe me, if you look at what genitals actually look like. They are all different sizes, shapes, textures, colors,

and she paints them. And her whole Instagram profile is one kind of genital after another. And you will see that you are trying to match an ideal that no one ever would hold you to. And I think you're, my sense is that it's really not even about your genitals. It's just that your genitals are the ones that are getting the brunt of your resistance to getting older. And what I would encourage you to do is instead of cutting into your erectile tissue in your genitals and doing potential damage to maybe do some real soul work and personal growth work around staying juicy and sexy and gorgeous from the inside out at any age, because we really can.

We may not look like a 20 year old anymore, but we're not supposed to. And that doesn't make us any less desirable or any less sexual or any less capable of enjoying sex. In fact, even more so because we've lived much longer, we've had a lot more experience. And if we allow ourselves and do the work to really embrace our bodies and ourselves, then we're more comfortable in our bodies than the 20 year old who's got the genitals, you know, that you may be thinking you're supposed to have. Thank you. Obviously, I don't want to monopolize. And this is great. This is sage advice, and I truly appreciate it. So I'll wait till next time that you get together to talk about the topic of masturbation. Oh, yeah, we'll start to talk about masturbation. Maybe it'll come up later, but yeah, we'll get to masturbation. What was your question? I mean, like, I'm curious. What was your question about masturbation? I think it's a topic. And maybe if you masturbated more, you would feel more aligned and friends with your genitals. Did you have a specific question about masturbation, Kina? I don't think anyone told me about that joy as well. So there was two things, menopause and the other M was masturbation, which I learned very late in life.

Yeah, and for an almost 70-year-old, that would definitely be the case. Even for a 50 year old, you know, or 40 year old, that would be the case for, you know, I meet 30 year olds who don't know about or feel comfortable with girls, you know, women more than men. And it's certainly something that men learn about, boys learn about automatically because their stuff is sort of hanging out there in the bath. You know, like I remember my little boys when they were little taking baths, you know, you see that they see their little penis floating there. they grab it and they like go, they're surprised, but then they start playing with it and they're like, oh, this feels good. You know, and it's sort of as a natural evolution. Girls in general do discover masturbation later if they aren't interrupted. It's sort of a natural thing, except so many parents slap their kids' hands away as they're touching themselves, falling

asleep, you know, because most kids do it when they're babies and little toddlers to fall asleep and to soothe themselves. They're not doing it, you know, to get off, but their parents, you know, say, oh, don't do that. Don't touch yourself. That's your private parts or slap their hands away. And girls certainly aren't taught that. I always teach that when I go into schools. In fact, I did a whole Oprah show about this talking to, I think it was like a nine or 10 year old girl whose mother wouldn't even tell her what sex was. And we had this whole conversation where we also talked about masturbation, but in general, you know, it's not only a way to know your body and learn about and love your genitals and care about, you know, self-care, but it's also

so crucial to do throughout your life because it teaches you so much about what arouses you, what feels good, how to have an orgasm. And then you can, you know, so that's the first thing I prescribe to a woman who can't have an orgasm or has never had an orgasm, figure out how to do it on your own first and then bring it into your relationship. But if you don't know, you know, if you don't love your own vulva and play with it and enjoy it, how can you expect anyone else to? So I do think it's really underrepresented in sex education for most women, but especially for women over 35. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. So I'm going to ask you, Laura, can you talk a little bit about a few of the interviews you've done most recently on this show?

Sure. I think this week, is it this week or was it last week? Because I do the, you know, the episodes come out a few weeks after I record them. But Sherry Salata, last week, that just came out. She was actually the executive producer and president of Harpo and the executive producer of The Oprah Show for 25 years. And she wrote a book after she left when she was just turning 50. She took a year off to kind of find herself after an intensive top of the world career and wrote a book called The Beautiful No. and so we talk about you know the power of no and but really about the power of reinvention and how so many of us really haven't been living the lives that we want to live or that we imagined we want to live or are following our passions and how you really start to identify what your real purpose is what's going to light you up and how to make a career from that which is really what she's doing. So she's an amazing teacher. We have a great conversation. I also recently had a conversation with Dr. Shefali, who's a psychologist and a powerful, inspirational

speaker and teacher. And she just wrote a book called The Awakened Woman about empowering women and moving into authenticity and integrity and taking our power back in these subtle ways that many of us didn't even really realize we were giving our power away. And she tells a lot of her own story because she had her own awakening. Martha Beck came on to talk about the way of integrity. So lots of great people. I'm going to have Maria Menounos later this summer. She just went through a big tragedy with her mother, who she cared for for many, many years, dying of brain cancer. But she talks about that journey and all that it taught her. And she's really a soulful, you know, she does the Better Together podcast. She's a really beautiful human

being, but lots of cool stuff coming down the pipe. Yes. Awesome. Thanks for sharing. And you had Anita Marjani as well. And so many amazing people. And I'm really, really grateful to you for helping their stories reach your audience. All right. We're going to go to you, Cynthia. Cynthia, thanks for being here. All right. My comments are going to be around. It happened around, I think Billy asking about sex frequency, and then Kina talking about, you know, the aging and sexuality. And so I just really, I am a midlife mom is how I describe myself. I just turned 55. I've been in a marriage for now almost 30 years, we're 29 years. So when we talk about sex frequency and how often it should be happening.

I mean, I've seen droughts as it relates to that. And what I'm excited about though right now is you've hit on it about kind of owning our power. I'm excited about these books that you're sharing because that is truly the season I'm in and rekindling, reclaiming my own power and then recognizing that a lot of the intimacy, the creativity, the ability to release and let go was all within me. It was my power.

And it was for me to design that so that I can be more receptive and more open to my partner and more receiving. And so I'm just excited about the life's journey and the opportunity to see intimacy happen in different ways. And it's a lot of mental. It has been a lot of mental for me lately. It really is. And I love that you brought that up. And I remember meeting, I was talking to this Chinese medicine doctor and he was, something about menopause came up and he said, you know, you know why menopause is, the transition is so tough. And I said, why? You know, I was curious what his take on it was. And he said, well, the qi, which is, you know, in Chinese medicine, and the life force. A woman's chi, her entire life, that travels through the meridians,

the life force that's traveling, that innervates us, that creates energy and creativity and sexual energy, that's all flowing toward our womb, our uterus, those meridians there. And when we go through the menopausal transition, the transition is actually the chi changing directions so that now it's feeding the entire body and traveling, not all centralized around the womb, but all over the body. And then that's why older women and menopausal women in every indigenous culture and in our culture as well, before farming came hundreds of years ago, women, as we passed that menopausal transition, that's when we became the wise women. That's when we became, you know, we were no longer focused on raising children, small children, and we now have lived so much

and have so much wisdom gained that we start to not only share that wisdom with those who are younger than us, but also share that with the world. And our creativity and our sexuality absolutely come from the same place. I have zero doubt about that from doing this work for 25 years or more now. So I think that you're spot on that this actually, I'm really interested and have been spending a lot of time trying to teach women. And I'm also perimenopausal myself. I haven't gone through the transition, but I'm getting up there. And, you know, I'm having some of the symptoms that I'm learning to manage physically as well as emotionally. But I can tell you that I'm really interested in helping women understand what a powerful, enervating, freeing, and exciting

time this can be. You're not worried about getting pregnant. You have much less responsibility. You have so much more flexibility. You have an empty nest in many cases where you don't have to worry about kids and all the errands and them walking in or finding the time. You may be slowing down, hopefully, if you can, in the work. You may be reinventing yourself. There is, I think, retirement is becoming a thing of the past in the sense that retirement really means working for joy rather than just for the paycheck. And so I think there's so many beautiful opportunities to make this transition. And I keep saying juicy because it feels like we equate menopause with drying up, and it's not. It can be the most juicy, beautiful, creative, productive, sensual,

sexual time of your life. And certainly one of the most empowering. So I love your take on it, Cynthia. And I say, keep going. We'll keep the conversation going too. And listen to those podcasts because you will, it'll be right up your alley. I have the books and I'm certainly going to be listening to the podcast. And juicy is an, that's a wonderful word. And I just want to share that healthy lubes may help too. So as that woman who was going into the store and didn't know what to look for just recently, and my husband was very excited.

He was probably shocked to hear me say, I think I could have sex every day because this is amazing. This CBD infused lube and it's just great. You know, I actually have a product that I created with my friend who does these sorts of, she makes these potions and lotions and things. And it's called Yoni Silk. And it is a organic fractionated coconut oil with Damiana and CBD in it. And it is amazing. But even just using

organic coconut oil, you know, you got to be really careful what you put there. A lot of the lubricants that are out there have preservatives or chemicals in them. And your genitals are mucous membranes, which means whatever gets put there goes directly into your bloodstream. So whatever you're using, make sure that it is organic and all natural. That would be the only thing I leave you with. But yeah, that's a great point. On that note, Laura, what should we be, I get it, it should be natural, but what should we be looking to avoid? What are some of the unnatural things that we'd be like, okay, we definitely don't want that one. And what's your product called for those that are interested?

Just DM me if you want it. Cause I had to take it down off of my website because Shopify, Billy's actually helped me redo my website on another platform. But Shopify won't let people sell anything nationally or internationally with CBD in it. So I had to take it down. But if you DM me on any of my social media platforms, I'll get it for you. But if you're using condoms still, if you're practicing safer sex or you use condoms as birth control, you don't want to use an oil-based lubricant because that can break down the integrity of the latex. But otherwise, assuming you're not allergic to coconuts, the best, I'm telling you, the best, just the organic coconut oil that you cook with is one of the best lubricants I've been able to find. But what you're looking for in the stores are things with, you know, basically ingredients you recognize and, you know, you can pronounce.

I was just going to say, if you can't pronounce it, it's probably not a good thing to buy. And that you could eat, you know? Yeah, I was going to say that. And that your grandmother would cook with, you know, and or maybe not the CBD, but you know what I'm saying. And that, you know, things that don't have a lot of scent in them or sugar, any kind of sugar product can cause urinary tract infections. And a lot of those edible things that they sell in the stores have sugar in them or chemicals in them that make them sweet. So just keep it as simple as possible. Makes sense.

And I see my friend, John, in the audience who owns a chocolate company that's been in business since the 30s. And one of the products he sells, since he's in the audience, I'll tell the story, is they have chocolate penises. And so I just love that. But I don't think the intention is for it to be used anywhere. I want a chocolate penis. Who doesn't, right?

Even I want one. My dad, in the 70s, my dad was this, he was a surgeon, but he was also a surrealist artist. And he had a friend, this guy, I can't remember his first name, but it was called Krohn's Chocolate. It was this place in New York City, kind of a gourmet chocolate place. And he became friends with this guy and got really into molds. And his thing was making butts. So my dad would mold like a baby's butt, tried to mold my butt, but I wouldn't let him.

And then Mr. Krohn would make it into chocolate. So the chocolate penises are reminding me of that. Maybe you should make chocolate butts. John just arrived. Welcome, Johnny. G'day, Billy. Oh, my God. I'm never going to live this down.

I want a chocolate penis, Johnny. Okay, Laura, I'm a very big fan and love. I've watched you on many shows from Sydney, Australia. And it's funny you should say that Eva's going, my wife's going through, I think, menopause too. And, yeah, I love the advice that you said. And pity that Australia can't get CBD. I'm trying to develop some products in the in the lolly and edibles but yeah yeah just I'll DM you if you don't mind and I'm more than happy to send you some just for but just for shits and giggles

um Crohn's um it was an old confection of many many years ago it's A-R-O-N-S isn't it I think so yes yeah yeah I was a little girl at the time but I remember going in that chocolate factory and all the things my and my dad also used to get ants and make him make chocolate covered ants which was really gross but i had an unusual childhood but that's a story for another day that's good protein laura so i don't think there's any problem with that and i'll tell you what uh perfection chocolate is delicious i he's johnny sent wait my mom by the way johnny i haven't even told you this my mom is visiting and she i've caught her three times digging into the chocolate stash because don't don't send laura so much that like it's her head will spin because he sent me i think

everything in his store and i'm still i'm still eating it and my mom's enjoying it we're the whole family's been feasting on chocolate for weeks now so i want your mom to eat the chocolate peanut she would put on a good picture put on tiktok that'll get more there you go there you go grandma eating a chocolate. All right. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for jumping up here, John. I want to go to, is it Andrea or Andrea? I want to go to you next. Welcome. Hi, thanks for having me. It's Andrea. Dr. Laura is a big fan. And I just wanted to say, I love the advice that you've been giving out. I am divorced and just out of a two-year divorce and then in a relationship of two and a half years, and that's just over.

however perimenopausal. So I'm like dating now is going to be a little different. I think, I don't know. I feel like it's going to be a little different. Not really sure what to expect. And, um, but I have been listening to what you've said in, um, the books that you've referenced, and I'm definitely going to listen to the podcast, but just wanted to say, you know, thank you for all this advice for women, you know, my age who are going through this, because we need to hear this because we don't hear it. So I just wanted to just give my thanks. where some see heroes and others see egos bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes a fad to some the future of money to others we see crypto's trillion dollar swings

the end of jobs or the end of human struggle we see the endless funds fueling the ai hype while others follow the noise we follow the money learn more at bloomberg.com Yeah. And if you can get they even make and actually I'm looking for someone to make suppositories, vaginal suppositories, because I've had a lot of women say that when they're single and dating and especially if they're in their late 30s or early 40s when this is happening and especially if they're dating younger people, they shouldn't be. but they are self-conscious about pulling out the lube. And so I like the idea of lubricant suppositories that you can just sort of pop in there and they melt, you know, and then you're lubricated for the next few hours. Isn't that a good idea? But I think, you know, I think Johnson and Johnson actually may make one, but it's not organic. But the other nice thing is that the studies have shown even with menopausal women who are well into menopause and really experiencing

dryness when they have a new partner that they're excited about and into they actually lubricate so so at least the first couple of times until you get to know the person you probably won't have a problem I love that there's hope yeah just keep jumping from person relationship sorry I'm gonna I'm gonna need lube the next time I can't see you again or just claim it and be because I really think it's something that all women, even younger women, really enjoy. You don't have to have dryness to enjoy lubrication or extra lubrication. So I think it's really about how you present it and your own comfort level with it and your own confidence that really makes a difference. For sure. Thank you. I really appreciate that. I can give a tip that just having

a glass of water beside your bed with a little bit of olive oil dropped on the top. So and then you put your hand into it and it just puts just the right amount that's a good idea because sometimes you want a little bit more friction right you want just a little bit more friction wait Darlene are you saying that you don't tell them you just said you just pretend it's water and that you're being like really sexy dipping your fingers in the water and dribbling it over your genitals but it's actually water with some olive oil in it well no I've always been married to the people I've been having sex with well at least for the last 40 years you know so well Andrea I think you could do that as like a secret you know what I mean if we didn't want

or what I used to do is I used to go into the bathroom and lube myself up before I went into the bedroom this is when I was dating when I was dating my husband and then I would just get on top of him and you know like slide on and it was just lovely you know so that's an option too yep I really I really like the idea of the secret just kind of like playing with it being sexy with the water splashing on his face and just yeah you know and then he'll be like oh it's very olive scented is that oregano oh that's funny I like that after a spaghetti dinner it all works yeah thank you for that that was good well i love that we have a theme for this episode clearly and and let's not leave it what haven't we yet talked about as it relates to menopause and oh i have

something i have go ahead darling go ahead so so blood as lube is an interesting experience when you're going through menopause and for other people that have a lot of bleeding issues it's one of the things i it was actually a topic in my comic book because i happen to be going through menopause, as I was doing the comic book, I'm done now. So you know, as I was bleeding, because lube was getting kind of weird. And I was like, Oh, I don't know what's going on. So so when I was having my period, I would just use that for lube. And that actually worked really, really well, you know, once the cramps are done and all that. So that that's a taboo subject to talk about. Yeah, sex during your period, a lot of people are uncomfortable with, but that is a taboo subject,

but it is a good lubricant. That's for sure. And in menopause and perimenopause, a lot of women start spotting. And so if they're trying not to have sex during their period, it can be kind of hard to, you know, your period gets irregular. I would say the, you know, the two keys that I think, well, three things that I think menopausal women need to address to optimize just the physiologic aspects of sex. You know, I'm not talking about all the stuff we were talking about emotionally and empowering and all those other things that are as or more important. But to get sexually aroused, you need blood flow and nerve stimulation, basically. And that comes from stimulation to the genitals, emotional stimulation, and also blood flow, right? So

as the hormones start to diminish, the blood flow diminishes to the genitals, and that's actually what causes the dryness to happen so the things that really help are lubricants obviously that we've been talking about becoming friends with a vibrator because you need you often need added stimulation in order to reach orgasm because sensation wise especially as our testosterone declines and even the blood the estrogen that causes the blood flow declines then it takes longer to get aroused. The sensation is a little less. And so I always tell my over 35 and certainly over 40 women and their partners, embrace the little baby vibrator that can fit in between the two of you or a hands-free vibrator that your partner can wear for direct clitoral stimulation,

either as part of foreplay or during intercourse. And it really helps with arousal and orgasm and having simultaneous orgasms for any age, obviously, but certainly for your over 40s. So lubricant, added stimulation, lots more foreplay. And from a hormonal perspective, there's been a lot of controversy, I would say, over the past 20 years about are hormones safe or not safe. There was a big study that came out in the early 2000s, the Women's Health Initiative, that put the kibosh on all hormones, and they became bad and evil and cancer-causing. And most general doctors and gynecologists won't touch them, really, other than a few synthetic versions, pharmaceutical versions. But even then, they make you sign your life away in case you get

cancer. But if you really dig into the research, a lot of that research that they use that caused so much fear is really flawed. I'm not going to get into all the reasons why, but I'm not an MD. I'm a PhD, but what I do know, having shepherded as many women through this and going through it myself, is that there is a lot to be said for what's called bioidentical hormone therapy. So those are hormones that are still made in a lab, but they are made from natural sources and they can be compounded in a way where you're getting the smallest amount of whatever specific hormones you're lacking, you know, and they slowly titrate up until your symptoms alleviate the dryness. You know, the symptoms of low testosterone would be low desire,

difficulty, you know, low sensation in the nipples and genitals, less intense orgasms, less energy, weight gain, and less of sort of a joy in life, you know, mild depression, not depression, depression, but just feeling kind of blah. And the symptoms of low estrogen, is dryness and arousal issues. And progesterone, a lot of sleep and moodiness. Estrogen and testosterone play a role in the moodiness as well. And so bioidentical hormones, if you go to someone who specializes in that, can really alleviate, especially during the menopausal transition. So I think that's something that isn't talked about enough as well. What about, I certainly don't claim to be an expert, but just a quick look on the old

Google box, there are natural remedies for things like hot flashes, some of the things that list is like red clover and ginseng and evening primrose and kava. What are your thoughts on all those things? Most of that hasn't really been shown in any clinical studies to work. The only one that has been shown to help with hot flashes is black cohosh. But the rest of them, really, there isn't a lot of evidence to support that they work. But I can tell you, you know, from a from a hot there's actually more evidence that meditation and mindfulness helps prevent hot flashes than some of those herbs or any of those herbs other than black cohosh. because it's really, once again, I always think of that Chinese doctor

and the qi question of the qi changing directions as we go through that transition. So women who, and I've had a few hot flashes as I've moving into this too, women who go through hot flashes, one of the exercises I've started doing is the second I get a hot flash, instead of panicking and being like,

I gotta get outside and take off all my clothes as soon as possible, I just sort of take some really slow deep breaths and I think about what was just happening and almost always it was really subtle it doesn't mean I was like in a huge argument with someone and I was really you know wound up it's often a very very subtle thing but something was aggravating me or annoying me or making me slightly anxious and I didn't even realize it And as soon as I identify that thing and kind of get mindful about it and consciously let it go and take those deep, mindful breaths and calm my nervous system and parasympathetic

nervous system down, the hot flash goes away. Isn't it amazing the power of the mind, right? If we're going to leverage one thing, leverage the mind, leverage that power. I want to just pass it back to you, Laura, for a final word, anything that comes to mind. It could be about menopause or anything that you think would be valuable to share. Yeah, I mean, I would just I did it that I love you, Billy, and love being here and love being with all of you and the organic nature by which these conversations unfold. And I think that's really the crux of it, that that there is a collective consciousness and we're all struggling with the same thing. We all go through ebbs and flows, no matter what our gender or biology is.

We all go through ebbs and flows in our sex lives, in our sexual response, in our sexual experience. We all have our big T or little t trauma. And it's really about opening the conversation and letting go of that which holds us back from being authentic and honest. Because it's only then that we can start, you know, not until we ask the question, can we find the answer? So hopefully we'll be able to help find the answers and continue to find the answers together, loving and learning to love and be loved better. And I guess we'll see you next week. Thank you.