Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Shadow Work: How Facing Your Inner Demons Can Set You Free with Kristan Sargeant

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

Have you ever felt shocked at how strongly you react to something? Feeling stuck in the same patterns you know don’t serve you?  Well it may be your Shadow at work.  And understanding your shadows leads to transformation and sets you free.  The path to that freedom lies in the parts of yourself you've been ignoring. Joining me in this Language of Love Conversation is the amazing business consultant and psychotherapist Kristan Sargeant. Together, we dive into a fascinating conversation about the shadow—those hidden parts of ourselves shaped by societal pressures and intense experiences. It’s incredible how these buried aspects can impact our lives in unexpected ways.  Kristan breaks down the whole concept of Shadow, explaining how it forms and why it's so important to bring it out into the light. We even do a mini shadow session with a my producer, Sam! Kristan also shares some of her own personal insights and gives tips on how to build a relationship with your shadow for some serious personal growth and transformation. This is what we explore: What is shadow and shadow work? Practical steps for engaging with the shadow to stop negative patterns  How to negotiate with your shadow and consistently show up for it The importance of shadow wisdom Remember to check out The Tools: 5 Tools to Help You Find Courage, Creativity, and Willpower--and Inspire You to Live Life in Forward Motion by Phil Stutz and Barry Michaels for insights on Shadow work. Follow Kristan on Instagram, LinkedIn or visit her website for her latest projects. Also, remember to visit my website for courses and books designed for you and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman. And for the past 30 years, I've been helping people just like you learn to love and be loved better. Here on the Language of Love Conversations, I'm talking to some of the world's most influential and revolutionary experts, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, and celebrities about love, sex, and relationships from a mind, body, and spirit perspective. And that way, my goal is to awaken your mind, body, and soul. It's time to become fluent in the language of love. Kristen Sargent is a business consultant, has owned her own businesses as a psychotherapist. But about five years ago, in really a journey of reinvention of her clinical career, she stumbled upon the tools.

The Tools, you may have heard about Phil Stutz. There's a documentary on Netflix called Stutz. He really has created this system along with his protege, Barry Michaels. And the two of them together wrote the book, The Tools and Coming Alive. The Tools being a New York Times bestseller. And Kristen is one of the few people who has actually been trained in the tools, in the shadow work, and in the system that Stutz, Bill Stutz, first created. I find the work unbelievably inspiring, effective, and really, really efficient. It does not require months or years of therapy. So I'm really, really excited to share the wisdom that Kristen brings forth around shadow work as well as the tools in this episode of The Language of Love.

Kristen Sargent, thank you so much for joining us on The Language of Love. Hi, Laura. Thanks for having me. I introduced your creds already, but I just wanted to share this story. So I kind of dove into the tools. I'd heard about it. the Netflix documentary, whatever about called Stutz, who was the creator of the tools, but I hadn't really paid it much mind. And then she's like, no, you should listen to this.

And she sent me a podcast with you and Barry Michaels. So who's sort of your mentor, which we're going to get to in a second. And so she's like, my friend, Kristen learned under him. And I want you to listen to this podcast. And I was like, wow, like I knew about shadow work. obviously I studied young in graduate school. I do my own version of shadow work, but this was a very different thing. I was like, I really like this woman. I'm sharing this story guys, because you know how I'm always talking about quantum flirts and how the universe is always conspiring to support you. And I was like, I really like this woman, not just the content of what she's saying, but I can tell I really like her. I want to meet her. And also, frankly, I think she can

help my son. So I want to see if she sees patience. So I asked Jules, our friend Jules Davis, our mutual friend to introduce us, which she did. And we were playing email tag. And then that weekend I go to this wish walk with my friend, Alexa Fisher, who owns a company called Wish Beads. And she does these beautiful projects like creative artistic manifestation projects, I guess, for lack of a better term. And so about 10 people met at the beach and she took us through this process. They seemed cool. We didn't spend much time talking to each other. I came with my friend, Bobby. We didn't really even pay that much mind. And then the next day, Jules texts me and says, I think that you were with Kristen Sargent at the Wish Walk yesterday. And it turns out that

you and I were in the same 10 person group. Like how insane is that? And we didn't even, I mean, we registered each other. Hi, how are you? We, you know, we all went around the circle once and said something, but it's not like we had a lot of time to converse or schmooze. It didn't even register. And we were right there. It was so crazy. We had just exchanged emails and then yeah, plop the universe. Yeah. Crazy. So I don't know. I just thought that was really cool. And then we talked and whatever. And I'm really, really excited to dive into this with you because, as I said to you, I really think that the process that you take people through, and I want to talk a little

bit about where it comes from and also this legacy that you kind of find yourself now holding of the tools because of a confluence of unexpected kind of tragic circumstances. Are you the only one besides Barry and Phil Stutz, Barry Michaels and Phil Stutz, who's really trained in the process of the tools? There's actually somebody who precedes me who's a mentee of Phil's who really has kind of seniority to me in the work. Her name's Jamie Rose, and she was a patient of Phil's, I mean, self-declared, started working with him in the 80s.

She's actually an actor and originally and now a coach, and she just worked, you know, side by side first as a patient and then again as a mentee. And so she coaches the tools and has a breadth and depth of knowledge that is, you know, kind of standalone. And, you know, I actually now lead supervision groups with people because really since the, I mean, since the documentary especially, but there's always been, you alluded to this, the way that Phil and Barry have kind of imagined and brought to life psycho-spiritual principles in the form of tools, in the form of these mini applicable, actionable interventions that people, again, apply in real time. They're just loaded with spiritual wisdom, integrity, right action, and they help people get unstuck, get out of their own way without a tremendous amount of insight work. So traditional talk therapy is based on have a lot of understanding about why we are how we are and how we got here, which is important. Insight matters. But the only thing that really changes a person is action, is taking that insight and marrying it to action.

This was a long-winded way of me saying their work is so effective and so efficient and elegant and user-friendly and also intuitive that for years, people have wanted to learn how to bring the tools into their workplaces and practices, whether they're therapists or coaches. Now, I've been leading supervision groups to just help people learn to adapt and adopt the tools and bring them to broader audiences. So there are more people, to answer your question, who are learning how to do the work in a more kind of professional capacity. But there's no official way.

I always say it's like an apprenticeship model mixed with an oral tradition. You got to systematize it, girl, because at some point, you know, it's going to become important to create some quality control. Because I think while, you know, this to me as a therapist of 30 years, it makes total sense to me. I've never done it this way, but I've obviously, it's aligned completely with what I do. But I also think there are lots of people who don't necessarily have the experience or skill set. And so that's an important piece of it too. But we'll talk about that another time. What I want to talk about now also is that I listened to one podcast you were being interviewed on. And I love this because we've talked about this. I'm in the same way. I'm a psychotherapist.

I was trained in graduate school. I have my two masters and a PhD, but I have never been, you know, at least for 25 of those 30 years, I have not been a traditional therapist. And I probably am more of a, in the quality of a coach, the way a coach would be in that I'm very directive. I work really hard and fast. I use myself a lot in the, you know, I'm honest about like, I will use myself as an example. I'm not a blank slate. Like they taught us in graduate school, you know? And so I wanted you to talk about that a little bit. Do you call yourself a coach or a therapist or both? And what you see is the distinction, because this comes up a lot for people when they're looking for treatment. Should I go to a therapist or should I go to a

coach. And I've been getting pissed off lately because I see all these coaches on social media saying, don't go to a therapist because therapists are just going to make you excavate and re-excavate and excavate again, and aren't going to give you any forward momentum. And I would say that like traditional forms of like old school therapy probably are like that, but I think that's kind of more of the exception than the norm these days, but maybe I'm off kilter with that. I mean, certainly never been my orientation. Well, and I love that. And so, you know, I don't know that I'm qualified to like generalize or know, you know, you can't generalize that all the purpose in the world. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's my experience

in the way that I was trained, similar to you, that we're going to be a blank slate and we're going to the emphasis of therapeutic work. Even I was trained at a very progressive Jungian institution, but the emphasis was still empathic listening and not directing at all. And so for a lot of people I know, listening to people who have done thousands of hours of therapy, been in the seat, me too, on the receiving end of therapy, it can get really frustrating and disheartening because nothing seems to be happening. So it's a trope and it's a stereotype definitely because there's plenty of evidence for it. I agree with you. I think that, you know, maybe there's like a postmodern chapter of, you know, therapy unfolding right now. The tricky part is when

you're bound by a license, you absolutely have to adhere to certain rules. So there are limitations, I think, that therapists have to, you know, respect in terms of not bringing themselves too much into the therapeutic process. I, like you, I mean, I'm incredibly mindful and discerning. I would, you know, the, the, whatever I disclose about myself, you know, needs to be in service. What I feel is of service to the therapy session, but I I'm not rigid again, like in the way that I was trained, you know, that there, I can't bring any of my own life experiences because they're humanizing. Right. And they also, yeah, they're relatable and they give people permission. And I'll say it this way.

One of the things I loved most about the documentary, you know, that you referred to my mentor, Phil Stutz, who's the author of, you know, the way that I work now. And I think it's like dispelling or demystifying a certain kind of psychological trope that we have just accepted historically as like somehow the therapist is immune from being a human in the process of becoming or something or like they've got their problems all solved. And the exact opposite, like what I'm kind of peddling, pardon the expression, every day of the week is like, if I'm really doing my job in my own life, but also in service of my patients, ultimately we're discovering, coming into relationship with our potential,

untapped, unlived potential. And our job is to take risk in action in the direction of that potential. In my work, we get access to that information, that intel, as I like to call it. Intel is like intelligence that comes from the inside. So it's through the shadow. Sorry, let me finish that thought. So you get access to that intel, and I call it the eyes, like the letter I, insight, instinct, inspiration, images, ideas. All of that intel comes over time as you learn how to relate to your shadow, which opens the door to the whole of your unconscious. And all of this intelligence comes streaming in. But ideally, again, just now to zoom back out, carry the

plot line here, I'm trying to help people get in touch with that lost, split off, stunted potential. And it happens to all of us. We all carry shadows because we all have hard things happen to us in in our lives. But ideally, we find a way to get into forward motion and expand and continue to take risk and action in the direction of our potential. That's what's really going to make us healthy and feel good. It's the medicine, in my opinion, for neurosis, for all the destructive shit I'll engage in, pardon my French. Unless I'm in forward motion, I'm going to start giving in to all kinds of, you know, negativity and maladaptive patterns and to kind of destructive patterns. And so anyway, again, to zoom back out, the larger point I was making is I'm doing that

too. I'm marching right alongside my patients, trying to, you know, expand and get to my death bed without regret. And if I'm doing that, I'm going to be human and encountering all my fears all over again, every time I bump up against a new risk edge. And that's, you know, it doesn't end. There's not like a Holy grail, you know, moment where you stop being human, you stop having fear, you stop having vulnerability. It's just how you negotiate and navigate that. And if you're able to move forward in your life, that to me is the biggest measure of health. Anyway, that was a long rant. I hope that I liked it. And I think the highlight reel here, guys, is that if you ever have a clinician or a therapist who tries to give you the impression that there's some sort of guru who

has every piece of their poop together and that they aren't still growing and having their own messy, expansive experience. I mean, maybe they're much further along the line than you are and they can shine the light and show the way, but you know, we're all human and, and the age of the guru is finished. I want to, let's get into shadows. I'm going to, in a minute, I'm going to bring my producer Sam in here because I'm going to put her on the hot seat. She agreed, but I want to use her. Usually I use myself and I could easily take advantage of your brilliance and do some shadow work with you. I do a lot of shadow work myself. That's probably the biggest part of the work I do with myself or on myself or with the support of others. Not exactly the way you

lay it out, which is really beautiful, but let's start with what you got into it a little bit just now, but what the shadow is, why we want to know it. And also do we have, because you often talk about the shadow as like the shadow. And in my kind of version of shadow work, I have many, many of them, many, many, many, many. I haven't even met yet. Many. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah. There's more than one shadow. Yeah. There's more than one shadow. And for whatever it's worth, that this is helpful, the way I give people an image, because in my work with people, people discover lots of shadows and sometimes that even gets overwhelming. And they're like, I don't know, who should I work with? Which shadow, you know, am I relating to? And that's the moment where I

share this image of like a prism, you know, those crystals that are multifaceted. We use them sometimes for feng shui, but it's like a prism. It's like the shadow is that crystal with all the facets and the shadows are the facets. And when you work with or relate to one shadow, you're really working with all of your shadows. And there's usually in my experience personally and with my patients, there's usually one shadow that kind of represents your front line of fear or vulnerability, what you need to be working on. And then that's the shadow you work with. And often that shadow might lose a little energy or potency over time because it's gotten the attention it needs. So I can shift to talking about what the shadow is, if that feels like a

good segue. Yeah. Okay. So the shadow essentially gets created. Every human, like I said, has shadow material. It really gets formed for two reasons. So one is that we all grow up either in families or in cultures, really both, that give us very clear signals, messages, cues about who it's okay to be and who it's not okay to be, what it's safe to express and what it's not safe to express. And whatever we deem unwanted or unacceptable, dangerous in our environment, that has to get split off because we can't literally afford to express those parts of ourselves for survival reasons. We fear and feel that our survival is at stake. So if I grow up, you know, in a culture where, you know, this is the example I always use for my own,

you know, childhood, I'm in a conservative, you know, Midwest environment. And while being a girl, I shouldn't really be too outspoken, too loud, too ambitious, too smart. That was a big one. Then all that stuff gets pushed away because I want to belong. We all need and want to belong. And so in order to belong, I adapt and I, you know, to the norms of the environment and whatever, again, I deem unsafe, I push into the unconscious. It doesn't go away. It forms an alter ego. That's the shadow. So in my work, we call the ego is how I think about myself, my waking conscious identity. It's, again, how I think about myself and my personality. My shadow is the carrier. It's still me, but it's buried in my unconscious.

And it's the carrier of all the things I, the ego, reject and don't want because they're dangerous. That's one way the shadow gets created. Another subtle difference that people relate to or another version, another example is that we experience things in our growing up that are just too painful or hard to process or manage emotionally. We just can't make sense of them. They're overwhelming at the time. So that stuff gets buried in the shadow as well. And so the real point here is that those traits and qualities

that are unsafe, dangerous to express, or those painful psychological experiences that we don't have the ability to contextualize or process, all of that gets pushed into the unconscious and a separate self forms again an alter ego that we call the shadow why is it the shadow because it's in the dark we're not conscious of it it's in the unconscious and in our work what's really revolutionary about barry and phil's work is that because as you alluded to the shadow isn't a new concept the shadow you know is really coined and developed by carl jung so it's a concept that's been around for a while, but their real breakthrough and what makes their work different in this particular shadow practice different is that we relate to the shadow. The way I teach people to

work with their shadow is as a real and separate being with its own consciousness, its own point of view, agency, its own voice. And that's really trippy in 2024 to start to work with and relate to share your consciousness with another being. And, you know, I am always saying to these guys, and I say it to anyone who will listen, that which you can't be with will run your life. So can you speak a little bit to, just from the perspective of bringing your shadow

into the light, forming a relationship with them, what are the risks or what happens to most of us when we aren't doing that, which I think is the majority of us, and what are the benefits of doing that? Yeah. You know, befriending and getting to know and relating and forming a relationship and often being guided. And you can talk about this, I think, I'm sure. Yeah. Eventually being guided and partnering with that part of the self. Well, when we start shadow work at the beginning for

all of us, it's a part like, you know, like I just was talking about that we've buried, we've othered, right? We've othered it, we've disowned it, discarded it. And so whether we know it or not, we're at war and at odds with a part of ourselves. Now, what that translates to is a couple of things. One is you kind of always feel a low-grade sense of shame or badness, like something's wrong with me. It's like you carry a stain. So when your shadow is unconscious, You've got all this like unmetabolized, disowned, unrecognized pain and junk, you know, under the hood and it feels bad. You kind of get this sense that there's something wrong with you.

So that's one part of like why you don't want to keep your shadow unconscious or the upside of, you know, of really facing the shadow is that a lot of that shame, you know, an imposter syndrome and something's wrong with me starts to go away. and you feel better. But the other one that you alluded to, which to me is like an endless source of fascination, is that, to use the famous Carl Jung quote that I just love maybe more than anything, quote-wise is, until you make the unconscious conscious, in other words, until you make the shadow conscious, it will direct your life and you'll call it fate. So the tricky thing is that the shadow, when it's in the dungeon, when you are actively repressing and

suppressing and denying and judging it, which is what it feels like because the ego doesn't want to deal with it, doesn't want to be uncomfortable, doesn't want to deal with the old feelings or the bad feelings, it has no choice. It doesn't go away. The shadow is there, whether we recognize it or not. And it occasionally grabs the wheel of the personality from the back seat, from the subconscious and takes over. And that takeover is different for different people, but sometimes it's an acting out and lashing out. Maybe you find yourself like suddenly raging and you lost your shit and you're like, wait, that wasn't me. You know, it's like not, it's at odds with what your actual you know your personality and your identity is and so or you'll go on a shopping spree or

you'll do something to numb out like when we do that that's usually the shadow operating shadow takeover exactly and a takeover could also be just for variety like paralysis like writer's block when I work with writers is often I have that shadow I know we do and but it's amazing and it starts to almost sound a little bit, Laura, like a panacea, but it's unbelievable to me how much is tied up in the shadow and becomes available. It's like freeing up energy and resource and flow when you start to work with your shadow. It's pretty, pretty remarkable. We're going to talk more about what it looks like to work with your shadow and we'll see you, we're going to get into a demo, I guess, of a micro shadow session here in a second. But I

also want to just speak to, and you and I have talked about this because we both are, I think, pretty spiritually oriented people. And this is something I have thought about a lot. And when we spoke about it, I was asking you if this was your understanding in your experience of shadow work, that what these discarded parts of ourselves, unrecognized, disconnected from are kind of our also turn out to be our telephone line to spirit. It's like the part of ourselves that has cut ourselves off from God, faith, spirit, holy oneness, whatever you want to call it. And so when you start communing with those parts of yourself or that part of yourself, in this case, when we're working with a specific shadow that you have disenfranchised,

and now you're consulting and connecting and communicating with, they will bring in, they're like an access point. Can you speak to that for a minute? Because I find that so true and also so fascinating. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's the part of the work that honestly is most exciting for me, like in a what's in it for me way with each of my patients. I would say that the first stage of shadow work is really healing because you're coming back home to yourself. You're bringing back these parts and it starts to feel incredibly, it's really sacred, you know, and you start to feel better. There's a healing phase of the work. And then as your shadows feel more accepted and wanted by you, they start to trust you. And then this phenomenon

that you're talking about, they're actually the gatekeepers of this other dimension of our intelligence, this other mode of our intelligence. You could call it the right brain. It's like the information and the intelligence, the consciousness that flows through the right brain comes through the shadows. You can't get access to the right brain without the shadows because they're the gatekeepers. They're holding the bag, so to speak. They won't let you get access. There's a beautiful way that my mentor, Barry, who you mentioned before, talks about it when we teach our Omega workshop, when we teach about the shadow, he tells how the earliest narration of the shadow or presence of the shadow shows up in the Bible in the first origin story of Adam and

Eve and how Adam and Eve are born, like we're all born, come into the world naked and unashamed. And then they eat the tree of knowledge and they become self-conscious. They cover themselves in fig leaves, right? Which is an act of shame. It's the first presence of shame. There's parts of me. And of course, the organs of procreation are symbolic of the creative impulse in human beings, our creativity. So they cover them, they become ashamed, and God asks the first question in the Bible, which is, where are you? Which is fascinating because it's pretty strange for an omniscient God to ask, where are you? Right. Yeah, exactly. And so to your point, whether you're comfortable with the word God or not, higher forces, universe, they pick your poison,

like whatever that, yeah. I mean, to me, it's that which is bigger than the ego, which is all I'm trying to help people gain access to share, make space for that, which is bigger than the ego. The ego is awesome. It's got some great talent, skill, and faculties, but we're trying to, in my opinion, fit the ocean through a pinhole if you're just operating with your ego. Anyway, so when God asks that question, what's really happening is when we hide our shadows, put fig leaves on ourselves, when we hide, higher forces can't see us, like can't find us. And so when we're hiding our shadow, it's both and. And so, yes, the huge part of shadow work that gets me so excited and honestly, why I keep showing up to the work, because it would be hard day in, day out to carry as much, you know, kind of pain and grief as I sit with. But the second part of shadow work is the unlocking of this flow and access to higher forces and this expansive dimension of consciousness and our intelligence that reliably, every day of the week, even for my most left brain concrete operational, sorry if I'm offending anybody, but finance people, lawyers, they do this work.

And options, this is what I say, this is what I write about the shadow is, if we allow it, the shadow will orchestrate pathways and possibilities that are unreasonable and illogical. And that's what I witness every day of the week in my life, which is so exciting. In a good way. In other words, they show actual possibilities, not just the potential of possibilities that you never would have imagined otherwise. That weren't accessible before you started relating to, and the key word here is relating to the shadow. You have to bring your shadow alive in a relational way and start listening to it and allowing it to direct, you know, your choices, your decision-making, let it have bearing on how you lead your life. Love this. Okay. So can we bring, is this a good time to bring Sam in? The perfect time to bring Sam in. Get in here, Sam. Hello. This is my producer, Sam. is one of my favorite humans. She's so gifted in so many ways. She's, I think, and I think you

would agree, Sam, very spiritual or spiritually oriented, but you know, she's been through some shit and there's a specific issue, but I'll leave it to you, Sam, because you may have thought listening to this all something else, but I had a specific issue that has repeatedly come up just in our conversations that I know is deeply affecting your quality of life. It can't not. That is, to me, ripe for shadow work. But you dive in and take it from here. I'll shut up. Most of us have no idea how to move through loss. There's no roadmap to follow when you're trying to navigate grief. And I realized this when I lost my son three years ago. As a therapist who understood grief, a whole new level of pain opened up to me when I lost my 16-year-old son.

And since then, I have been building resources that have allowed me to navigate through loss, not only in a healthy way, but in a way that has transformed me for the better. We can move through the most terrible loss with grace. And that's why I have created the course, Good Grief, Healing from Loss with Love. You can find it on my website, drlauraberman.com, right there on the homepage, as well as free resources,

letting you know how to support others who are going through loss. None of us has to do this alone. So it was funny. I was looking at it. I used to do stand up and I'm actually doing my first open mic tonight, my first time on stage in like six years. And I was watching the old video of me at 26 years old. My dad had not yet been diagnosed with cancer. He was still alive. I was just living just a totally different life. But in the span of some time, you know, my dad passed away from cancer

after battling it for four years, being very ill. My life was totally turned upside down by COVID. I had to go back to Ohio where I'm from after being in Los Angeles on my own for a very long time. And then I met somebody, I reconnected with someone and we fell in love and it was so beautiful. And it seemed like everything was aligning again. And we moved to North Carolina together. And about six weeks after I moved here, he got diagnosed with stage four colon cancer and we are, you know, in our thirties. And so it was, it's been a very difficult year and a half, but he has beat it and he's cancer free now. And it's really amazing and miraculous, but I'm having a very, very difficult time trusting the world again, getting back out there. I'm just constantly

waiting for the other shoe to drop, whether it's God forbid him getting sick again, me getting sick again, one of our parents getting sick. And it's just all of these intrusive thoughts. But I just, he said to me the other day, my boyfriend, he's like, you're just so scared to get back out into the world because it's like an ice rink. And every time you get onto the rink, it starts to break and it starts to crack. And then you have to go back to the stands. And so you're scared to get back out there. It's not, I don't even know what back out there means, but it's just like spiritually as a person, I've insane anxiety still. And everyone's like, you should be so happy. I feel very, very blessed that our prayers were answered,

but now it's just kind of getting back and into working on my, and I, and I also, the part of it was, is I didn't take care of myself for a year and a half and I only took care of him. So I don't really know how to do those things anymore. And I've just been struggling a lot. Well, thank you for sharing all of that. That's a lot to go through. So yeah, absolutely. Let's kind of see if we can find the shadow that relates to all of that pain and grief and struggle and challenge that you've had to dance with in the last, what is it overall, like a 10 years? Like eight-ish years. Yeah. And I just want to say, whether this is useful or not, I don't know, but we'll do the shadow work on it. And then I don't think we'll have time to do it,

but maybe I'm inviting myself back onto the podcast, Laura. I want to do part X work on it too, because part X is the other side of the coin when it comes to shadow work. And so you'd be well served with a part X practice. There's a tool to use on part X, part X for the people listening in is, you know, kind of the mean, bully, destructive, negative, you know, part of the self, tyrannical part. And when you were talking about almost like the invasive, intrusive thoughts, that in my work, we would label that part X and we fight that off. Like that's going to be important in order to protect your shadow is you. And I'm calling you the ego because you're the part that directs the attention, you mounting resistance every time that negative invasive

thought pattern and loop comes up, that's going to really help you and that your shadow will experience as protective of it, its possibility, its potential. So that's one part of the equation that I'm going to guess we probably won't have time to do, but let's go to the shadow work because that's what this podcast is about. So we definitely have to do that. And I just want to say, and Sam, you tell me, I mean, this is your session, but the way that I categorize what's creating the paralysis, for lack of a better term, is, you know, just this inherent fear that the other shoe is about to drop, right? Or that the ice is about to break. And that was there because I've known, you know, we've worked together before for at least a year or two before your boyfriend

got diagnosed. That was there before. And then his diagnosis, of course, reinforced your worst fear. So that's just my 10 cents. Yeah, no, that's on point for sure. That's really helpful. So let's have you, Sam, just close your eyes. And for a moment, I'm going to ask you to kind of be brave and go into some feelings. But the thing I want you to know is I'm not going to let you get stuck there. So most of the time, you know, we're just trying to keep this stuff under wraps and keep it together and function in our lives. We don't want to feel these things. We try to keep them at bay. And for our purposes right now, you're actually going to lean into the feelings, these uncomfortable, painful feelings. And so what I'd

love for you to look for, source for, is a memory that will bring back up the feelings of pain and fear and the ice breaking. That's such a powerful, potent image, what it feels like and felt like when the ice broke in your life. And so you could go back to your dad and his cancer or your boyfriend and hearing of that diagnosis. But for our purposes, I want you to choose to the best of your ability to tolerate it, an experience that has the most emotional charge for you, because that's going to help bring the emotions back alive. I would say when my dad got diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer, had just had an accident in the kitchen and sliced my hand open accidentally with a tuna can and I was in a lot of pain and I had to have surgery and it was

really stupid and terrible. But I woke up from surgery to talk to my dad to find out that he was just diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer, that my hand was no big deal compared to it was. And I remember I just said, oh God, dad. And he said, don't say that. Don't talk like that. everything's going to be okay. So see if you can, in your mind's eye, recreate the experience like it's happening right now. So I guess you were in the hospital. Is that what you said? Yeah. I had just woken up from a surgery. Okay. So you just wake up from surgery and you get this news. And I want you to kind of hover around the moment and just observe, but also bring it back alive and bring real curiosity about what was going on inside of you, what that state of the

ice breaking felt like to you. What are the emotions? What are the sensations? What are the thoughts? The bad butterflies is what I always call them. Just this feeling like you've been punched in the stomach. It's not good butterflies like you're going down a roller coaster. It's the other kind. And just complete fear, anger, confusion, not feeling like I can trust anybody or anything. And listening to you, I feel like it sounds like you've told this story more than a few times and so what I want you to do like really with love and sincerity I just want you to try to slow down and reconnect with the feelings so you're feeling them the confusion the anger the bottom dropping out all of that intense emotion yeah it just felt like I wouldn't have

him to take care of me anymore and things were already tumultuous in our family but this I had this worry that it was going to make things in our family even worse which it did and just feeling like sometimes I think I'm a little bit psychic but only about the bad stuff and feeling just like these bad omens which still come to me to this day but I still think they're just this reaction I can't trust them yeah just feeling like the circle that I had around me that hugged me that protected me it was going to be gone soon because I knew what stage four pancreatic cancer meant so when you feel like you're connected to the feelings everything you're describing the protection is gone, bad things are going to come. There's fear, there's anger, confusion,

sadness. When you feel like you're connected, just let me know. Yeah. And now what I want you to do is I want you to imagine that you can take all that sensation and emotion and fear, pain, and push it outside of you. So this is a little bit of an imaginative leap. And I want you to imagine that you can do that. And now it's in front of you. And I want you to give all that pain and emotion a face and a figure of its own. so it's one part you're giving it an identity and but the other part is you're almost asking for the identity to reveal itself to you so what you're bringing is again like a genuine

longing desire curiosity openness to this part of you that is the embodiment and the carrier of all that grief all that pain all that fear and just be open to seeing it take shape in front of you who are you and see what comes into into view into mind I am an old me with gray hair but I have blue eyes and not brown eyes got it okay so blue eyes and so just keep your gaze on this you're saying it's an old woman yeah yeah she kind of looks like me though but yes like what I would imagine myself looking but she's an old woman so just keep your focus on her and again what you're doing which is subtle but it really matters is you're bringing curiosity and openness non-judgment doesn't need to make any sense you're with her just be with her

And see if you notice anything else about her? She's holding my hand. Like, I don't think she's evil, but she's just been through stuff. And yeah, what do you think? What's it like for you to encounter her? What's your experience like? I'm like, too soon. I don't want to meet you until much, much later in my life.

Got it. So do you feel afraid of her? A little bit, but I also feel comfortable with her. But it seems like if she gets upset or angry, it's like she could just blow this whole thing up. Like she's volatile. So what I would love for you to do is just practice staying steady in her presence. I hear that it's a little bit, you know, she's a little overwhelming, it sounds like. She's a little scary.

It's a little too soon. And I want you to just try to stay steady and almost steadfast and bring her, if you can, some empathy, like presence, number one. And what I want you to communicate to her in your mind's eye, in your own words, is I see you and I'm here with you. and you can tell her the truth you can say I am a little bit threatened by you I'm not sure like I kind of wish you weren't here but I'm with you right now you're not alone and just see what impact if any that has on her she says thank you but it's like she doesn't

really believe it do you know why she doesn't believe it or you can ask her why she doesn't believe you she can't trust people so that's interesting because starting with you it sounds like she can't trust you so I want you and you can try this on I want you to acknowledge to her that part of the or the pain that she's in and her feeling of not trusting being alone you know maybe being hesitant you are at least partially responsible if not wholly responsible for that for her feeling alone abandoned yeah okay and you see how that goes yeah yeah why is it my fault you know like i was just living my life i didn't even know her i didn't you know i don't know you why is your problems my fault and why are you messing up my life you're saying that to her to her to her

yeah yeah so what I would love for you to I want to translate that a little bit and I want you to say to her I ignore you and I kind of revile you I mean that's what it sounds like I hear you saying is I don't want anything to do with you because I'm terrified of you but what I'm becoming aware of is that that has caused you to feel very mistrusting and maybe alone, maybe abandoned. See if that's true, you know, ask her, and is it true that in my unwillingness, you know, my kind of repulsion that I have left you alone and, you know, abandoned? Yeah. I mean, she agrees that it's, she's connected to me and she feels angry with me, but I think that's so silly. That makes me mad. Yeah. Yeah. So why don't you say this to her and this is going to be your kind of higher

wisdom intelligence coming through and me directing you. So it's okay if you don't totally agree with me, but I want you to say this, you know, anyway, try this on. I want you to say to her, the truth is like, I find you to be a major inconvenience. Like I really, really, it's not my problem. But the truth is I'm waking up to the fact that if I keep that attitude, I'm going to be at odds with you and you're there whether I want you or not. And it's creating a division inside of us that is no longer sustainable. And so despite my feelings of repulsion or disgust or inconvenience with you. I'm going to have to do this differently. I'm going to have to relate to you and actually get to know you because, and here comes Kristen, maybe I don't

know everything about you. Maybe I have a lot of opinions about you and a lot of feelings about you, but maybe I don't know everything. Maybe there's more to you than meets the eye. And I'm willing to admit that, even if I staunchly don't want a relationship with you. And see if you can deliver that with some authenticity. And again, see what happens for her and for you when you admit that. I think that she appreciates my words, but again, she does not believe me. She just doesn't trust me. Yeah. So you can keep your eyes closed, but your trust issues, the problems that you're experiencing, Sam, and Laura called it paralysis, being stuck, not being able to move forward, what you called your trust issues with life, start with her, originate in her. And the salve, the medicine, whether you can totally know this or believe this yet or not, is in mending your relationship with her. So I want you to say to her, now knowing that, it seems like I can see you nodding that that

resonates for you. I want you to say to her that I am going to earn your trust by showing up, just by remembering you. For you, it's like I put you in the dungeon, I locked you up and I threw away the key. And so I'm going to stop doing that. I'm going to bring attention to you. I'm going to remember you. I'm going to get curious about you and I'm going to visit with you.

I'm going to actually relate to you, build a relationship with you and get to know you so that you can start to trust me and see how that lands with her. She's open to it. Okay. I'm going to give you real quickly a little kind of fun jujitsu move here. It's like, it's kind of fast forwarding everything, but I just want to give it a whirl, see what happens. One way, you know, she wants you to visit her where she is, which is what you just said you would do. I'm going to remember you. And Kristen's going to teach me how to check in

with you and how to do this crazy thing. It's actually quite simple. So one thing that she wants is for you to come visit her where she lives in the unconscious. But another thing that she's interested in, especially the more she trusts you, is she wants to be included in 2024 in the material world in your today. And so what I would love for you to try on is inviting her, even though this is mysterious and maybe weird, to come with you. I really don't think it's an accident that we're having this conversation on the first day up at the open mic. I think that she could really help you. And she could actually blow your mind about, again, kind of blow the lid on. You have a lot of judgment of her, a lot of assumptions about how scary and dark and dangerous and

whatever she is, angry and problematic she is and too soon and carrier of wisdom you didn't want to know. But if you give her a try, she's probably got a lot to offer you. So if it feels resonant and safe for you and authentic, why don't you see if she's willing to come with you into your performance tonight? How does that feel? She still feels a little bit like, we'll see, you know, you haven't been there for me. Why should I be there for you? But we'll, we'll see what happens. Cool. So why don't you leave it with her that she can act however she wants, but you're not going to let her resistance to you, her stubbornness dictate how you show up. You, again, as the ego, you're the one who's been ignoring her and avoiding her. So actually the

onus is on you to show up differently. And so she can hate you, distrust you, stay in the corner with her arms folded as long as she wants, but you are going to remember her and bring her with you and bring light and consciousness, attention to her. And I just want you, before we close this little exercise, I want you to flash forward in your mind's eye to tonight. And I want you to see yourself before you go on remembering her. And I want you, this is a tool in and of itself, which is a little out of context, but I'm going to share it with you anyway. I want you to say to her, I am going to keep you with me before, during, and after this performance. And so long as we use open mic night tonight as an opportunity to grow our relationship and practice being bonded,

showing up together. So long as we practice that and use tonight as that opportunity, I promise to consider it a victory, no matter how I think it goes, independent of the results. And so I want you to make that vow to her. I want you to see yourself in the bathroom, in the dressing room, wherever it is, stage left before you go on, actually calling her in with you. And she can do whatever she wants, but I want you to make that pact with her, that vow. So long as we stay connected before, during, and after, I promise to consider this a success. That's the real metric of success from today forward is us showing up together in the material world. Now I want you to imagine that you're doing the set and you're on stage. And even for

one second while you're performing, you flash on a visual of her. You remember her. You share your consciousness with her. And then I want you to imagine it's after the show and you're off stage, you're driving home, you're in bed at night, whenever it is, and you take a beat and you remember her. And you say to her, whether the show was great or not, maybe it was amazing, maybe you missed a beat here or there. I want you to say to her, no matter how I feel that went, because we stayed connected, it was a success. And that's what I promised you. And I'll keep doing that, making that promise, following through on that promise till the day we die. Now, again, that might be a hefty promise to make, but you can try it on.

Yeah. How does that feel? You can open your eyes. it feels good yeah I don't hate her scared of her you're right yeah I mean what's awesome is how honest you were about it and I really appreciate that when I'm doing shadow work with people I always encourage the ego which is who you were in that dynamic to tell the truth because you know what the shadow already knows how we feel about it it lives inside of us so it definitely knows that was valuable for you to be that at first I didn't know what the hell was going on. I was like, wait, what's happening? But yeah, that was so honest and so spontaneous

and organic. And that's her experience of you for sure. And so that's a split inside of you that is perpetuating definitely fear and your worldview, your experience of like your inner solidity, and then your trustworthiness with yourself and your ability to trust life. And, you know, if we were to work with each other more, we would continue to translate that into kind of risks that you would take. I mean, the truth is, and I'm talking a lot, so I'm a little self-conscious of that, but I'm just going to tie this point up. the truth is there's plenty of evidence in this world that bad things happen and you've had bad things happen. There's as much evidence that good things happen. I mean, we live in a world with all of us, no matter what our trauma history is, there's evidence everywhere that things can go really, really wrong. And meanwhile, we have to find a way while we're here to show up and be

all in, bring all of ourselves to bear, you know, because it feels better when we do. And we don't really have a choice. We keep waking up. It's Groundhog's Day every day. We're here and we will feel better and we will bring, you know, our contribution to the world if we can find a way not to let the fear dominate. And so your work with her will start to open that up for you. you I just want you to circle back to one thing Kristen because you shared sort of ways that I think that she could consciously kind of bring this part of her the shadow into her 3d life but you also referred to a way that Sam could visit with her in her unconscious so how does she do that yeah or did you I missed it no no no I mean thank you for prompting me because that

I think will be valuable for people. So the thing that to me is mind-blowing and, you know, kind of wildly simple is that your job now is just to remember her. And remember the word remember is re-member, put her back together. And literally all that takes is remembering her a handful of times a day. So I like to, you know, suggest to people three times a day, If you can remember your shadow three times a day, I, it's funny, I'm off of my practice actually. So I'm glad I'm now outing myself publicly because for most of my life, I wake up and the first thing I do is remember my shadow.

I practice sharing my consciousness with her first thing, dedicating my day, my attention to just being aware. And it's as simple as I see you, I'm with you. It can be that fast. It's not, you know, in the unconscious time isn't linear. So it's not about how much time you spend with your shadow, it's sincerity and consistency. It's the effort and the consistency that matters the most to your shadow. Now, so first thing in the morning, I see you, I'm with you.

Like that means a lot. And this is all kind of, to use your phrase, Laura, like this is quantum mechanics here. Just by putting attention on this part of yourself, the relationship will start to change. She'll start to change. You'll start to change. Now, if you have more time over time as your shadow trusts you, as you keep showing up, keep showing up. And, you know, again, it's independent of how she acts. The onus is on us. I always think of Good Will Hunting. I don't know if you guys have your minds. The shadow is like the Matt Damon character. And we are, in the analogy, Robin Williams, right? We're just calmly, dispassionately, I'm not going anywhere. You can hate me. You cannot want a relationship with me. You can mistrust me. I'm not going anywhere. So you're just devoutly, consistently sharing your, remembering her. first thing in the morning, set a reminder on your phone for lunch. When you go to bed at night, it can literally be flashing on a visual. As you do that work and maybe you have a little bit more time, you can ask your shadow some questions like, is there anything you want me

to see? Anything you want me to know? The big question that is where I want people to get to is what's your agenda for this day? How would this be a day well-lived for you? I'm the ego. I know my agenda. I'm going to walk the dog. I'm going to get ready for work, go to the gym, pay the bills, make dinner, go grocery shopping, watch the news. But what do you want? And this call and response with your shadow, again, as the trust happens, eventually your shadow will start to communicate with you. The communication might be as an image, might be an instinct, an insight, an idea. Some people do hear their shadow, not literally as a voice. I think maybe a handful of people I've ever encountered hear a voice, but most people, it's like you'll get a communication back.

And the day that it happens, and it is in the beginning, people often say to me, I don't know if I'm making that up, right? If I'm managing that, like, I don't know, did I make that up? But there will just keep doing it and act as if it's coming from your shadow. In the beginning, it'll be foggy and a little weird, but eventually there will come a moment when your shadow, your unconscious gives you an insight or an idea that you would not have had unless you had been communicating with your shadow. The day my prosecutor, you know, attorney said to me, we were in a, you know, his eyes were closed and we were in an exercise and he got this idea to go ride the Ferris wheel at the Santa Monica pier. And it related to like an amusement park getting

built in his childhood. And we were in this whole thing. And he says, but I don't know if that came from my shadow. And I said, would you have ever had the idea of going and riding, you know, going, leaving work early on a Friday and riding the, the, the, the Ferris wheel at the Santa Monica pier. And he said, no. And I said, well, that's your shadow. And he did it. So that's the other secret sauce is when you get communication from your shadow and you as the ego action, it make it translate it to action. That is really what changes you. That's what changes you as a person is translating it to action. The shadow lives in the unconscious,

so it has no agency in the material world. It can't do anything without the ego. The ego lives in the material world and can't get the insight or the instincts of the unconscious without the shadow. So when you finally start to trust each other and work as a partnership, you start getting this, as we talked about before,

kind of like superior level intelligence, but it's always going to feel like a leap of faith for the ego because it's outside of the left brain and logic. The ego always, you know, operates and navigates with, you know, critical analysis and logic and reason. And so it always feels a little weird, like really the Ferris wheel, but the Ferris wheel, by the way, changed this guy's life completely. And my real point is that if you act on what your shadow asks in some way, the first thing my shadow ever asked me was just get me an ice cream cone. The shadow will probably only give you small things in the beginning because it already knows. If I ask her, I'm sitting in my office right now and I literally

got this office because my shadow wanted me to get an office. Didn't really make sense. I could see patients at home. This is expensive. I live in Santa Monica. I had to furnish it, but she wanted an office. She's like, you want to write the book? Get me an office. It was very clear, But and I negotiated and I was like, can I get a, you know, an office in somebody else's suite? Can I sublet? She's like, I want my own office. I couldn't have, but I wouldn't have taken action on that if that had been day one of my shadow work. I wouldn't have trusted the process enough. So I did get an office, but that was like two years into working with my shadow. And again, a million doors have opened since. So sorry, bringing it back to you, listen, check in with her and just consistently show up. Some people like to journal with their shadow. You don't have to, but for some people, asking a question to your shadow and writing it down. What can I do for you today? How can I make you feel safe inside of me? How can I protect you? I like that question for you, by the way, Sam, because what you lost when you lost your dad was protection, is what you said.

Yeah. What you want to give to that shadow is internally protection. I think if you asked her that every day, how can I make you feel protected today? And wait and wait and wait and keep asking and keep asking. When she answers, that'll really change your life and you make it actionable. Thank you so much. That's really helpful. Thank you. I think that's so beautiful. And you know, what kind of trips me out in a cool way about this, Sam is what Kristen is describing. I mean,

you and I are both into the spirit world and mediumship and even what our mutual friend, Susan Grau often speaks to around how from the spirit world, our loved ones on the other side will give us these little messages or give us these little signs. And if we go to, you know, that's, that's, I'm just making that up, you know, then they're like, oh, okay. She didn't get it. I won't give that sign anymore. Maybe I can find something else. Right. But when you say, oh, thank you for the butterfly. I see you, Sammy, or whatever it is, then they give you more and more and more. And it's just really cool that the parallel between that and what Kristen is speaking of with your shadow. Are you willing to do that? What she's saying? Yeah, absolutely. And I think

that you guys are right tonight. I'm nervous, but I, this is just, even if it doesn't go well, I just, I need to get on stage. I need to hold a microphone. It's been something in my soul that I've just been craving like crazy. And I finally am being pushed to, to do it. So, you know, I She'll she'll be with me whether she messes it up or not. I don't know. But ye of so little faith. It sounds like, again, these are my associations, so I could be totally wrong. But, you know, it's interesting, right, that she came as and she appeared as an old woman. It's like, you know, you had to know things earlier than you would have wanted to. Experiences that all humans eventually have to encounter.

And so it sounds like she's the carrier, my guess would be, of a lot of wisdom, a lot of depth, a lot of soul. And you would be, you know, like she might be able to provide some comfort for you tonight, but also some ideas that you alone won't have without her. Because she sounds wise.

She sounds like she's got more years on her than you do. And again, you just never know. I know she's like reluctant about you, but the, the act of you remembering her and inviting her in and even saying, if you feel comfortable, come on stage with me, speak through me, give me courage, give me insight about how to do this. You know, she might take you up on it. Cause I guarantee for everybody listening in, no matter how resistant or reluctant your shadow is in the beginning, it's been waiting for your attention. It's been longing to be discovered and be included. And the time it takes to heal and mend the relationship, repair the bond is infinitesimally

shorter than all the time it took to create the rift and the time we've been reinforcing it. So I like to, you know, I call it like spontaneous remission. It's wild to me how quickly, you know, it might take a couple of weeks, but they forgive quickly. They may pout for a while and be mad at you for leaving them with the babysitter. Once they get the object constancy back and you're there and you know, then they forgive you and move on. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I'm going to pop off here so you can wrap it up, Laura, but I really appreciate this and we will do a part two for sure. Thank you, Kristen. Okay. Keep us posted. I want to hear how it goes and thanks for letting us put you on the hot seat. Of course. I'm glad we did that. I'm going to hold

her feet to the fire. I also think that the wise woman has wisdom that one of the things Sam said was this, that, you know, she has this kind of clairvoyance or clairsentience or whatever it is, their cognizance, like of things coming and that there's almost a fear of that as well. And I think this, this part has is the place from which a lot of that wisdom comes. Yeah. So exciting to see what happens when she taps back into that. So Kristen, that was beautiful. I think it was a beautiful demonstration of it. If just in a quick summary for folks who want to, we're going to get into how they can find you and follow you and whatever. But if you're listening to this, because I've been doing this on my own since reading the books and spending some time with you

building a relationship with like this really kind of messy 10 year old pouting little version of myself. But if someone wants to discover their shadow, you know, really mimicking that process of like some, you know, there's going back, you know, you're struggling in some, let me know if I'm summarizing this right. You're struggling in some area of your life or feeling stuck in some way, really going into the feelings of that thing and whatever that is, like inside your body, really allowing yourself to feel it. And you're not necessarily going back to the first time you felt it, remember feeling it or anything like that. You're just going into the feeling and then breathing that, envisioning that coming out of you and taking some shape. And then maybe it

takes a person's shape. Maybe it looks like you, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's a, I mean, I've done it before where it's a gargoyle you know it could be anything totally be a cartoon you know I've like encountered a lot of Ursula's from you know the little mermaid like it might be we have these archetypal you know patterns and associations as humans so yeah it might be a character from a movie it might be two-dimensional often people's shadows are just like black and white line drawing. So yeah, our job is to just not judge it and trust that there's intelligence in it. And that I can like transfer to you guys. I have encountered some strange shadows, but I have an ultimate confidence in the fact that the unconscious does not make mistakes. So it might

not make any sense, but it's that image is loaded with intelligence. Those are beautiful words to And by thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us and sharing all your wisdom. I am going to have you come back because I do think Part X is a biggie and we got to dive into that with Sam. But in general, I think it's something that can help all of us. Where can people find you if they want to follow you, check out your work, whatever? I have a website, kristinsargent.com and an Instagram, Kristen Sargent, that I'm, you know in my own shadow work getting around to populating more so stay tuned for that they can

find out about events and workshops yeah exactly all of that in the show notes so you'll have all of the links thank you yeah and the toolsbook.com the toolsbook.com is a great resource barry and i have done a lot of webinars on the shadow and on part x and they live on as audio content so like if you want to be walked through this stuff. Barry and I also do a monthly shadow support group. I'm just actually starting next week a women's shadow support group. I do a people of color shadow support group

that I was invited to lead. So there's a lot of resources. A lot of that is on the toolsbook.com as well. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you, Laura. Thank you so much for having me. That was so much fun.

Thanks for watching!