Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - The Kitchen Healer with Jules Davis

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

Did you know your kitchen is like a special sanctuary where you can nourish your body and soul, and even find a way to cope with loss and grief through cooking? In this Language of Love Conversation, I'm joined by the amazing Jules Davis, also known as the Kitchen Healer, and the author of “The Kitchen Healer: The Journey to Becoming You.” Jules and I talk about how cooking and food aren't just about filling our bellies but also key ingredients in self-care, personal growth, and nurturing our emotional health. Jules has some incredible insights on the power of cooking with intention and how being mindful in the kitchen can transform the whole experience. As for me, I'm sharing a bit about how I have had to redefine my own relationship with food over the years. It's been a path of discovery, not just about what I'm eating, but also understanding my deeper hungers – those emotional needs that we often try to satisfy with a snack or a meal. Together, we’re challenging some of those traditional views on nourishment. We are all about embracing a more nurturing, expressive, and yes, delicious approach to cooking and eating. So, let's get ready to stir the pot and spice things up in this episode! Curious about what's on the menu? Here's a sneak peek:  Jules’ expertise as the Kitchen Healer and her work on women's healing The concept of nourishment and its connection to emotional well-being  Recognizing cooking as a meditative and nurturing practice The emotional and spiritual dimensions of cooking Slowing down and creating intention around nourishing oneself Nourishment beyond just food, encompassing connection, love, and passion Don't forget to explore Jules Davis' book, The Kitchen Healer, to discover how turning on the fire in the kitchen and in your life can bring you freedom. Connect with her on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram or Website. Also, If you are going through grief, please remember to visit my website to explore my good grief course because no one should go through grief alone. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman. And for the past 30 years, I've been helping people just like you learn to love and be loved better. Here on the Language of Love Conversations, I'm talking to some of the world's most influential and revolutionary experts, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, and celebrities about love, sex, and relationships from a mind, body, and spirit perspective. and that way my goal is to awaken your mind body and soul it's time to become fluent in the language of life Jules Blaine Davis goes by the title the kitchen healer she's a TEDx speaker and one of

leading experts on women's healing she leads transformational gatherings and retreats and in her book, The Kitchen Healer, Jules invites you into the day-to-day messy beauty of the healing kitchen. What is the healing kitchen? Well, I entered into it recently and I'm sharing what happened in this episode of Language of Love. Jules Davis, thank you so, so, so much for being here with us. Thank you. Hi. Hi. So, all right. I'm going to just start with how you and I came together because this episode is about what you're bringing to the, as far as I'm concerned, it's about what you're bringing to the world and sharing that with the world. And we're going to get into more of the specifics of that, but let's start with our story, or as you called it when we

were talking before, our origin story. So Jules and I, I think I'm speaking for both of us, we're in each other's orbits. I certainly, speaking for myself, was aware of what you were doing. I was really intrigued. Jules' book, The Kitchen Healer, I'd seen. I had pink hair. You had pink hair. I was attracted to all of that. And just there was this energy, this very kind of fairy, fairy-like maternal energy that I was really attracted to. And I have a lot of that fairy stuff in me too. So that's kind of how I, and I was like, oh, this woman's interesting. I want to follow her. And then somebody, you're going to have to remind me who it was. Somebody put us in contact. And I don't remember if it was before Sammy died or right after Sammy died,

but all I know is that my mind was going in a million directions and I just kept following you. But I was like, I can't even think about that right now. Do you remember who that was that connected us first? I do. I do. Cause she reached out to me. So it was after your son died. It was very recent in that journey of you sharing it with an audience, with us, with the community and the reason why it was shared with me is because you were dancing and moving your body essentially I mean the word dance already can take a lot of people out but I would say that you were moving your body in in grief and in all the layers that that are inside the invitation that came to you through Sammy and I also was doing that movement in the kitchen when I would

be doing anything. And a lot of my movement happened in a deeply unknown mortality invitation too. So we were doing similar things. We were trying to make our way to ourselves is the language I'll use. We were trying to make our way to ourselves and another day and a yes to living in such different ways. And so similar to this woman whose name is Jill and Jill is the main producer at Oprah was, was the man. And now she's, I mean, she's just a badass in so many ways. And Jill had known about me for many, many years. And I went when they, when they moved out here to LA, I went and did a thing with their staff and, and Jill and all of them. And Jill just didn't even need to know anything about me or, or what I'm doing, quote unquote, it was just, we really

did have such a beautiful, like instant connection. And so she, I mean, personally wrote to me and said, you need to know this woman and what she's, you know, going through. And so it was a moment on the map. Like it was like a longitude and latitude number that I was like, oh, and then I followed your journey and I did not reach out to you. I don't believe, and I don't believe you reached out. I think it was just, and that wasn't the moment. That was just the moment of like, yes, you. Yeah. That's how I felt too. I was like, yes, you. And I have nowhere else to go with that right now. Exactly. And then fast forward three years, I'm at good grief day, which these guys know about. And I know you know about, but it's this was this big day of grief

healing where all of so many of my wonderful healer friends who have been so instrumental in my survival and healing over the past three years, volunteered their time along with me. And we had this all-day event where all the proceeds, so none of them were getting paid, none of us were getting paid, all the proceeds were going toward the scholarship fund for grieving mamas to come on retreat with me at 1440 Multiversity. And so one of those healers was my friend, Biet Simkin, who is an amazing spiritual teacher, meditation, breath work person. And she did a talk there and took everyone through the healing special breath work system that she does. I forget what it's called, but it's got some hip,

she's too hip and cool for school. So it had some cool title, but, but at one point she stayed for the whole day. And at one point I wanted to show them, I did a little somatic dance session, kind of like what you're describing and she I realized had a lot of people don't realize what a dork I am if they just kind of know me professionally and they don't see and you know maybe if they follow me like you you know Jill's passed on me Dan but most people unless you follow me you don't know what a spaz I can be if you just like know me professionally until you get to know me and so in that moment she came up to me after I got off stage demonstrating what I call creative joint play, which is basically where you move your body

in a million ways that make you seem totally insane. And like you're fighting with some invisible fly. I don't even know how to describe it, but you look crazy, but it feels amazing. And it was released and the whole audience got up and did it with me. I was so excited about that. But afterwards she was cracking up and she's like, oh my God, I had no, I never knew this side of you. And I was like, well, that's because we are friends, but we've like met at the Association for Transformational Leaders, you know, like we haven't really hung out. And she's like, oh, well, you really need to know my friend Jules. And when people say that to me, who I trust and whose hearts I know, I always say yes, even if I don't even know. So then she puts us in touch

and I went and looked you out. I was like, who is this person? And I went, oh, my God, that's the woman I've been following. And so that's how it began. Okay. So Jules and I have this conversation and I have no idea why I'm talking to her or what's going to happen because I just say, yes, I like her energy and I like her posts and I like her pink hair and I like the teachings she's doing, but I still don't really know how it applies to me. And then Jules, you asked me one question, which I'm sure you ask a lot, most of your clients, but it was the first time I'd ever been asked it, which was, what was your morning routine growing up? What were the morning, you can probably remember, like, what were the mornings like in your home growing up?

How did you wake up? Okay. See, you know, the question, did you wake up in the morning? Yeah. In the morning growing up, right. As a child, we were talking about as a kid, or maybe it was however you wanted to answer it. But I immediately went to as a kid. She's not like it was just that's it. So I was like, oh, well, I woke up alone. My mother had put a bowl of cereal, dry, a box of dried cereal on the table, a bowl, a spoon, a napkin and in the refrigerator on the door where I could reach it at four or five years old up was the milk. And it was the same thing when I came home from school. Now, my mom was a stay at home mom. But and, you know, obviously we understand these things in hindsight. I certainly didn't understand it as a child, but she had severe depression and didn't understand it and would be in bed in the dark for days. she just checked out a lot. And so that was her way of making sure I was fed, but she wouldn't

come and she never made anything. And then it went on, we started talking about food and I don't remember how it started, but I was like, yeah, my mother needed cooking. It was such a dreaded thing for her. I would come home from school, I would see her, she'd be at her desk with that giant spreadsheet checkbook where she was budgeting all the household expenses and writing checks for all the bills or she would be reading a book or she would be playing solitaire once computers came out. She would play solitaire for hours on the computer. And I would come home from school and talk to her for a little bit. And she always wanted to know about my day. She was always very interested in my school stories, as she called them. And she was really invested in my

education. It's not like she was totally indifferent. But then she would say, oh, I have to go make dinner. I hate making dinner. And she just hated it. And then at age 10, I became a vegetarian when I finally registered that the animal I just stood by while my dad shot from the sky was on my dinner table. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. I didn't even know what a vegetarian was, but I just said, I'm not going to eat animals. And her response was, okay, but I'm not going to make you any special meals. So I went on to figure it out, but mostly sustain on side dishes, the broccoli, potatoes, corn, rice, spinach, whatever side dishes she made. And then you started a whole conversation with me about the side dish, right? And this idea that

I'd been settling for sides. So by the end of the conversation, I still wasn't really sure what was going to happen. But I knew we had unlocked something around for me. And I think this is a big part. I know it's different, really. It kind of your work sort of and we're going to don't worry, guys, we're going to get into the specifics. We're talking about what she does. I'm laying their foundation here. But your work can kind of be folded into or dissolved into any context. But for me, it became really clear that that there was like a mother wound that I had never really explored around nourishing myself and being nourished. And I always thought of nourishing as like, I'm going to take care of myself. I'm going to meditate. I'm going to do yoga. I'm going to

follow my full body. Yes. Which has been like revolutionary for me. I'm going to listen to my body. Like those are the ways I'm going to nourish myself. I had never thought about nourishing myself with food. Food was either something that I ate to sustain myself, I ate to soothe myself, I ate to enjoy myself or to fuel myself, but it wasn't the idea of making it. I mean, I have never until recently working with you have never, ever, ever made myself an actual meal from scratch. My husband would sometimes, but mostly he's a meter. So I would eat the side dishes and he certainly cooked for the kids growing up and he cooks for himself, but nobody cooked for me and I didn't cook for myself. So that's how this started. Would you say that's a good prolonged

summary there? I would say there's a lot there. That's a big, beautiful buffet and all you can heal buffet is what I call it in my book. But we also did talk about, and we also did talk about, I think initially, we didn't go straight to what your childhood was, we've made, I might have asked that question, because that is the question. And there is a reason why that's the question. But also, it really started with your current situation. And just being newly, just you and your husband, and what it looks like to be in that dynamic, and how food gets in your body. and just what happens when you're hungry and just very basic. It's actually incredibly basic. The questions are very basic, meaning the, you know, but the story we carry is everything. It's how our bodies are shaped.

It's how we shape our lives, whether we were nourished or not. And so that's, you know, the beginning of how my work started, meaning in the realms of like that, that is so continues to be such a passion of mine. What, how people nourish themselves and. Well, how we woke up in the mornings and, and what was happening? What was the scene? Like you bring me in, right? Like, was there an aroma?

Were you late the moment you woke up? Did you feel late? Was there angst? Did you hear your father's footsteps going, you know, open it for me? it was opening the garage, knowing he was going to work, you know, whatever the sound is. Or for me, it was my mom's cadence. Let me know what, if it was safe or not. And I write all about that in the beginning of the book, because that's my origin story. And so in the realms of that and the many layers of that, right, there was always something warm and loving. And yet there was lots

of sounds of pots and pans and Luciano Pavarotti playing. So there was, it's multiple, like multi-layered, right? Because the fire was on inside her and the angst and so many things. And then also there was like yummy recipes that are in my book now that I continue to make daily in my life. So the layered story of how we woke up and how we wake up now in our lives are actually equal. And so my work is the bridge we draw between, which I call the middle way. Because usually how we woke up, whatever it is, rare is it that it's nourishing and slow and reflective and everyone was seen, heard, and felt. I mean, that's a rare situation.

I love you if it is, and please collaborate with me teaching the workshop. And whatever that is, and then how we're doing it now are usually equal, regardless of who we married and how much money we make and what happens. and it doesn't even, it's like they're literally mirrors of each other. And so that means that regardless of what happened, like say it was just crazy and insane and feral. And then, you know, now it's structured and organized and they're equal, whether they're extreme, like I'll never do what my mom did. Right. So then we do the opposite, which is what I did. Right. So it's reactionary living or reactionary. So my work and the conversation of this work really, which is

our work, right? It's not my work where I, you know, and there were many points in my life where I found this so interesting and I just kept, you know, put a headlamp on and went forward and wanted to learn more and was just, and it's cultural, it's anthropomorphic. It's like many, many things and feminism and burning the bras with the aprons. I mean, I write all about this. they're multi-layered the piece that is the middle way that bridge between then and now is who are you like who not what happened and and because usually what we're doing in our lives is we're doing the thing that didn't get done but that's reactionary to what didn't get done that's not is that who I truly am and that's really what healing is right that's why it's

so nonlinear and it's slow and it's totally imperfect because we're actually on a journey to becoming, which is the title of my book. And it is, it's written to the reader as a journey to becoming. And that is what my work is with you. And it doesn't matter if you're a professional in any which way, you could even be a chef. Usually it's restaurant families that have that or farming families that their fridges aren't, you know, what is it to nourish? It's actually not so much about food as it is about the threshold into a life where you are nourishing. It's a very custom journey. Yeah. It's very bespoke, but like I, there's so many things I want to, so many threads in what you said that I want to just pull out and look at a little bit,

which is so important to me. I think one, I mean, there's a lot in there, but whether it is food or eating or diet, whatever you want to put in that bucket or your relationship or your parenting, there is this, I always think about reactive parenting. And it's certainly in relationships. Let's just talk about parenting. We all are sitting here trying to parent our kids unconsciously in the way we wish we were parented, right? So where the reason there's so many helicopter parents is because all of these helicopter parents were totally neglected and were hurt and harmed and abused while nobody was protecting them and nobody stood up for them and nobody looked out for them. So now we're hyper looking at, you know, we all have this,

and that's an example of what the reactionary living that you're talking about. Same thing in relationships, right? I'm never going to be cheated on. So I'm going to never really open my heart because I can't really try. Like there's all these different ways in which we reactionarily live. And one of the themes that you kind of really hit home to me from the beginning, and we're just in the beginning middle of our work together. I'm going to fill you guys in some of the crazy things that have happened. But one of the things that you really hit home and I'm starting to see is that there's no isolation and our emotional worlds and our unconscious worlds are not compartmentalized. So that by beginning to understand less what's really a

reaction. And Lord knows my whole relationship with the kitchen and cooking and nourishing myself is fully reactionary thus far until recently. But as you address that and start to unfold and nourish and discover, right, the becoming of you, as you call it, the journey to becoming you, as you uncover that, how you want to be nourished, what do you want to make? How do you want to make it a whole new way of being in the kitchen, a whole new way? What is that way? That that then softens the reactionary ways you're living in other areas. It's like they're all interconnected, right? And it's something really fundamental because I will say that I've done a tremendous amount of work around my reactionary living in parenting and in relationships, right?

And I help people with all of that, but it didn't really change my relationship to the kitchen and nourishing myself. But there's something so core and fundamental, not that how you were parented and how you were protected and all that isn't core and crucial, but that's the first thing you, the first relationship you have is being nourished. That's it. You come out and you're either on a boob or you're on a bottle or you're, that's, I mean, that's what we're looking for. We've taken, we've gone from the placenta and now we're looking for where the kitchen is. Yeah. And so it's very, very, it's everything. And what's so fascinating about that is in our culture, especially, especially our culture as in America, it's, it's such an event, right? It's like just such an event and it's an event because of so many reasons that aren't, we're not going to get into here. I mean, it's just, you know, there's so many reasons why it's an event custom wise in the home, but also identity and lineages back, right? Like how we presented

was who we were and who we are and how our house looks and whether it's in Tupperware and China and crystal, those were all so major. And, and, and that's really, unfortunately, essentially taken the milk out of the breast. Like that's not at all what it is. And what we are so hungry for is each other. We're so hungry to connect and just have something warm together. And whether that's literally folding the laundry together while we have a tea, like, and one of the bigger things that I mentioned, which is such an imperative tool is never asking anyone if they're hungry because hunger is so laden with story and we don't really know if we're hungry and we're definitely not going to put it on each other.

Like, oh, no, no, no, I'm good. I'm good, you know, but yet, exactly. But the whole reason why we come together is to feed each other. And really, I mean, why are we even doing this, Laura? We're doing this because, I mean, my intention is that we're here and when I leave here, I'll be changed from this.

That's like to connect with each other is to be changed, to see something anew, to like something inside me, right? That deep like biological hunger and connection to have a me too with you and to offer that to those who are here with us and have it ripple out. And all of that can happen like truly with a three minute egg and some warm toast. I know it's like, what? But as we learn how to turn on the fire in our own lives without any judgment on it, right? Because it's such a creative act as well. Like, oh, I don't paint or I don't sing. If you have a voice, you sing. If you have a body, you dance. If you have hands, you know how to make things like

you're a maker. Like that was all put on us. Those are all stories. They're pretend. They're not true. Yeah. And they're, and they are really limiting. I mean, and that's, and there's also, so this is what I think is so fascinating. Everything you were saying, obviously resonates, but so Jules had me come to her house. I think it was four hours we spent together, four or five. I don't know how long. Yeah. Good chunk of time where we had some bandwidth. And, and one of the things that we taught, we did a lot of things while I was there, but one of the things we talked about, and you already knew from our conversations and you probably know, and most of the people you work with, that I had no model for how to

nourish myself in a way. So here's how I operated heretofore, right? I would get up in the morning, have my coffee, try to kind of not eat, do some version of intermittent fasting as long as I could. And then when I was starving, would go to the refrigerator and find whatever I could, a sliced apple, a piece of goat cheese, some leftovers, whatever I could for some snack or pseudo lunch, or unless I was having a lunch meeting. And then I would go to a restaurant and have lunch there. And then dinner around five o'clock, my husband would look at me and say, so are you getting hungry? Yeah. What should we order? And then we'd order from Grubhub or Postmates or Uber Eats or something. And usually dinner was like the one exception because of my

husband would instigate it. But otherwise, I would wait again until I was starving and then eat like so I would only eat when I was starving. I would never prepare anything. And I would have all these recipes that I said I was going to try for probably five years now and would never do it because I didn't have the ingredients or whatever else. And so one of the things that came up very quickly is like you were like, you've never had a model. No one's ever shown you the basics even of cooking, much less of how to cook for lack of a better term, my term here in flow, right? How to cook and in a way that is nourishing to you. So like for me, cooking was always the act you did to nourish yourself. And it was a sacrifice and it was something I even did an obligation and an

obligation. It was something I made a conscious decision not to do. I am not going to be my mother. An empowered woman is not slaving in the kitchen. I'm going to either be rich enough that I can hire a chef or have a husband who will cook. That's exactly what happened. My husband will say. You manifested your greatest dreams. Yeah. And my husband would say, yeah, I very quickly realized that if I wanted to eat, I had to cook. And so I learned to cook. And he had a better relation. His mother cooked and loved cooking. And so he had a better relationship with that. But I literally had, that was my relationship with food. And I don't think I'm alone in that. Most of us have no idea how to move through loss. There's no roadmap to follow

when you're trying to navigate grief. And I realized this when I lost my son three years ago. As a therapist who understood grief, a whole new level of pain opened up to me when I lost my 16-year-old son. And since then, I have been building resources that have allowed me to navigate through loss, not only in a healthy way, but in a way that has transformed me for the better. We can move through the most terrible loss with grace. And that's why I have created the course, Good Grief, Healing from Loss with Love. You can find it on my website, drlauraberman.com right there on the homepage as well as free resources letting you know how to support others who are going through loss none of us has to do this alone

and so one of the things that happened during our time together is you were not only showing me some basic this is how you roast vegetables you know but it wasn't a cooking class it was more Or like, this is how you move around the kitchen in a way where you're moving and stretching and you put this pot on and then maybe you go over here and do this and then you're watching it. But like, because I would be like, oh, I have to stay in the kitchen while this pot boils or this thing. And so it was like this living demonstration of how this could be a morning meditation, almost preparing way before I'm hungry for lunch, what I may eat for lunch. And I want to really expand on that because, you know, cooking, I feel like, and I know this just because I've been doing this for so many years and it's, I mean, a big part of my profession is that the idea of cooking or food, I mean, it's just, it's not even

enough to think, oh, that's how I'm going to sustain or feel better. All the things, the scientific things, the body stuff, the mental stuff, like even that doesn't really like do it until you're like really in pain or you're on your knees and then you really have to look at it. But then it also can be compartmentalized of like two to one ratio or I'm doing it this way or I can't have this or whatever, right? What occurs in what I'm kind of inviting us all into isn't so much that part or we're not fixing anything that's broken is really what I'm getting to.

It's more so much can happen in there. You actually can really accomplish like it's deeply efficient. Like it's a meditation. It's finding your feet. it's a centering. You're turning on the fire. I mean, you're turning on the fire. You're intentioning like an element of the earth, which many, many, many, many, many, everyone before us did that. Not in the last few generations because of how the world has transformed and evolved and devolved possibly. But what we're so deeply longing for is that deep connection to yourself.

So we're at the altar and we're circling with women and we're going to Bali on retreat. And I love all of that go team. And that can all happen in boiling some water and putting an egg inside there. And when do you do that? Oh, you take the egg out a few hours early, or we don't understand the, that this is the number one value. This is the thing that happens before the other things. And then as this is going and flowing, like whatever that is, whether we're, we have the

pan on low because you know it takes a minute to warm and because it's thick and it's iron and so it's taking a minute so i know that's on while i'm also putting some darks in the in the wash and oh i need to get to that email let me just saute some onions on low so i have the base like we're not we don't know how to like weave in yes that importance and while we're doing that because that already, like if it comes in as a topical another to do, we're never doing it again. That's why how it becomes foundational is usually through mortality, autoimmunity, which we have in spades all due to this actually. And all the other illnesses that were at the mental illnesses, the depression, the loneliness. Oh my gosh. My biggest qualifier is the loneliness.

So in the kitchen, even this morning I woke up and I was filled with feelings. Just, I mean I am an artist in so many ways as we all are and I just like so many things were flooding in and the last thing on my list was make a sauce for tonight like that was not that was not on the list like I have like 60 things I need to go get a prescription for the fleas and get it up and like all these other things and literally without even there was no nothing happening other than me going right to the stove turning it on low and starting to chop veg and put it in there and I did the carrots that I did with you and just roasting carrots and thinking about that this, it's not even a frontal cortex thing. It's like my body just knows I must have something going while we're

on the call, while it's raining, while it'll be for dinner tonight. I have my kids. My nervous system knows I need that at this point. I mean, I'm also teaching this. This is definitely a huge part of my life. And as I'm doing it, I'm always blown away by it. I teach it, I live it, but I'm blown away by the importance in it. Like I had this to do, I had to, you know, there were a million things to do, but this is going to serve all of it. Yeah. Well, that's what I didn't understand. I mean, I understood what you were saying in theory and you, and we talked, you said it differently now than, but you basically, we had a version of this conversation and I was like, okay, that really, I can feel inside my body that that's true, but I can't even conceptualize how

that's true or why that's true. And then when I did it with you, I was like, oh, I can see how this works. And, and after this day with you, which was extremely nourishing and very, you know, just kind of like this living demo of what that flow that you're not just going into the kitchen to make a meal, but that the kitchen becomes sort of a center point and a touchstone and you're coming and going and sticking around, but you're not just like slaving over the stove, waiting for the watch pot to boil and whatever else. And so I went home that night. Oh, and we talked a lot about my mother, obviously, and some of the wounds there. And I was like, wow, you know, I knew like I was a parentified child and, but I had never really thought about the impact of my mom and her

just obligation and anger and resentment of cooking and how that had affected me and my willingness to nourish myself, my willingness to nourish others, and my willingness to feel even worthy of that in a weird sort of way, which I didn't realize I felt. And so we're in the middle of all that. I go home. I'm like, okay, I'm going to heat up these things that I made. She gave me some of the leftovers of what we made. I'm going to not only heat these up, I'm going to put in some spinach and some other things that I'm going to, it was just like a few little things. And here's what happened. And I can say this here because my peeps know that I'm, that I'm into the woo. All of a sudden my mother comes in. Now my mother's on the other side and I

haven't, she died in 2011. I think, yeah, 2011 she died. And it was at that time until Sammy, the worst, most, you know, she was my person for all intents and purposes. And I adored her and we were really connected. And I was pretty connected with her in the beginning after her death. But then I kind of felt like the only way I can explain it, because, you know, I talk a lot on here about connecting with our loved ones on the other side. And the only way I can explain it is that it felt like I got this clarity that like she had, and this isn't really true about people on the other side or souls on the other side, but she was really busy and had like a lot she was doing and learning and elevating and exploring. And I kind of had this moment of release with her.

Like I felt that request come through, like I'm still around, but I need to like focus over here. And I was like, you know what, mom, go and do your thing. Like, I know you're always with me. And if I need you, you'll be right here. But then it became other things. And I just never really, I feel her around me, but she's not like one of my peeps who's always around. Like Samuel come right in. Sasa, who I call my spirit mother, who was like my second mother in this life and much more nurturing than my actual mother comes through all the time. My grandmother comes through like other people come through, but not my mom. And I don't really even think about it because I know if I called her in, she would come. But like for some reason, I don't know why now that I think

about it. But here I am in the kitchen embracing this process. I have the music on, which I never do. I'm dancing around the kitchen. I'm in flow. I'm grounding myself in the nurturing. I'm doing all the things Jules tells me. And in comes my mother. In she comes and says, first she says, Titi, which is what she always goes, Titi, this is amazing. And this shocked me. It hadn't even occurred to me. She said, I want to do this process with you. We're going to do this together. I want to do this with you. And I kind of like laughed and I was like, you want to do it with me? And she's like, yeah, if I had had this experience, I would have felt different about food and about cooking, but also about food. My mother was really disordered in her eating. I

mean, she, she was on Dexatrim, my whole child and had me on it at age 13. So she was like, I would be different with food, my relation with food like this. And it suddenly dawned on me like, oh, my God, my mother would have eaten this with a spoon. If we had done we've been at Jewel's house together today, she would have been eating this with a spoon. And I didn't that hadn't even occurred to me. And I said, Mom, that's a great idea. Yeah. Do this with me. Like every time I'm in the kitchen, show up.

Let's do this together. And then she started listing all of these things. She's like, you know, I did always make you that French toast. my magic french toast and you know when you had exams i would get up and make you an omelet and what about the oreo cake i made like she started telling me all of these things i had totally forgotten about but she had nourished me with or made on special occasions and on you know whatever but she was making sure i remembered that she wasn't all not nourishing in that regard and since then she comes like sometimes i'm like in the kitchen laughing by myself because she's

reminding me of something or talking to me. So now the kitchen, who the frick would have told me that the kitchen was going to be the place where my mom is hanging out with me. That's crazy to me. It's so good. It's so not crazy to me. And I love that it's crazy to you because it's, it makes so much sense. Like she was so, so hungry, you know? And so she didn't know what to do with her hunger and she did what she could. And it was definitely an obligation. I mean, no one wants to slow down to be with their grief. That doesn't sound like, you know, let's do that. Yeah. So that's really what we're cooking with. We're cooking with grief. And that's why Jill put us in touch. And so really, because when we slow down in our lives, right, when we start,

even if it's in that first part of the yoga class, like you finally made it, you found parking somehow you're, you know, maybe this is pre COVID, but I remember any time I would make it to something for myself. I mean, the amount of emotion I would just ball throughout the whole class. And that was just on a regular Tuesday. That wasn't with a son dying or cancer or anything. That was just my regular being in this culture, learning how to become a pioneer, which is really somebody who actually walks toward themselves because there's no one reflecting that behavior. And that is not trending and it's not viral. And it's also quiet. Yeah, it is. It is very quiet work. What occurred here and why it's so quote unquote hard to describe is because it's

not for describing. It's a quiet, intimate, loving. That's what occurred here when you came to my home. I didn't put out anything for us because it would have been a disservice. I wanted you to watch how I make my tea and how I make our tea. I didn't ask you what kind of tea you wanted, or if you eat dairy, I'm just going to go for it because I already nourish and eat in a way that is healthy. And if there was something lethal, I would have already known it from the conversations we've had. And so I did say, you know, Oh, and that just the vegetarian. Okay, great. And then I'm off to the races in my creativity of what is in season and what's called and what I've had in the fridge or what needs to be made. I'm not thinking about you so

much as I'm thinking about us. And so, yeah, that modeling is everything. We all know this, right? Especially as parents, they're not listening. No child is listening to me, especially now I have two teenagers, but no one's listening. They're watching. yes and so that's the same with us and my the whole intention of the book and also when people come on retreat with me or they spend time with me here the whole thing is that oh i can do that oh i can do that of course you can do it it's not about the doing it's about being who you truly are which what the hell is that okay that's possibly inside doing yeah and it's usually inside here's the Russian doll thing, contrary action. It's the thing you don't want to do. That's so hungry for

you. That's the shadow work, right? It's like the thing that you're just like, no, I'm not, I don't need to cook. You know what I mean? 20 years ago when I was offering my work, I was, I called it miracles that you would, because it was a freaking miracle. If anybody could show up at my house on a weekday in the middle of the day, like people would be like, I know how to make a sandwich. Like I don't need to come over. I know how to make lunch. And what I was doing was so unique. I didn't even know what I was doing, but I knew I needed to do it. There was music on and poetry. And I just, I was reading, I was steaming artichokes. I don't, I don't even know what I was doing. I just knew that everyone was starving with babes on their boob. And we live

in Los Angeles. So it was, you know, the nicest diaper bag. I didn't have that one, but like, you know, other women had it and like, they didn't know how to make rice. Yeah. And so it wasn't about anything else other than, oh, I can show you how to, oh my God, how are you doing that with a newborn? Like, how are you doing that with, are you kidding? How did they do it without ovens? I mean, there were so many women before, but the shame and vulnerability in that brings grief up. And so a lot of us want to maybe do that in a therapy office or we, and yes, go team. All of it is yes. And our daily griefs, our regular day-to-day grieving that's happening all the time. Today is all we got. And then it's done. We won't have another day like this. That's

already a grief in the room. And how can we kind of embody that and offer that in a saute or a soup or even just a tea? And again, it's not about, people will ask me all the time, oh my God, I made bread. You'd be so proud. I made yogurt. I don't know how to make bread or yogurt. I love you. I buy good yogurt. That's not what I'm doing here. I'm talking about something much, much wider that is inside. How do we make our way from something like this? We're in our day, we're working, we're serving, we're offering what we love in the world to all the people who are listening. And then what's going to happen for lunch? Oh, we have a lunch meeting. Okay. Maybe I'll order a little something at lunch that can also be for dinner. Maybe I'm going to, you know,

what's my day look like? How, how am I going to nourish the kids later? Okay. And like, that's where, and inside that makes so much space. We think it's topical and like, oh my God, another thing to think about. No, we have a body. We're going to have a body later, hopefully. And if we have a body later, we're going to have to feed it. We're already stressed about it from the moment we wake up in the morning, if we don't know how to weave it in. Yeah. And that's really one of the magic pieces that I've been learning from you is how to weave it in and with love and with flow. And I came home and I, you know, I talked to you about this. This is part, this is going to be part two guys. Cause my, the kitchen has been my husband. We've been married 21 years. The kitchen has been his domain that whole time because I'm like, I ain't going in there fella. So he lucky him until now. No, he samified it. He samifies things. His name is Sam. So he makes them his own and figures out the most efficient things and ways and whatever. So the whole kitchen is Sam land and I'm not on purpose.

It's just that it's become, and I came home and I was like, I'm going to start nurturing myself. Look what I'm making. And I'm always so proud of myself. I've been making a lot of things. Jules sent me on a field trip to the farmer's market. I had an hour in between meetings and I ran to the farmer's market and the assignment was just pick out things that are beautiful to you.

and I'll tell you how to cook them because that always affects me when I go. I'm like, I don't know how to make that weird turnip. So I went and grabbed the things that were pretty and came home. And so I keep saying to Sam, every time I would make something, I'd be like, oh, look, I'm nourishing myself. So here's another little miracle. This man, it's not like he won't cook for me, but back to the burden and the side dishes, I never want to ask him to cook for me. And then we've kind of gotten to this routine where we, unless we're eating dinner together throughout the day, we just nourish ourselves, right? And we eat very different foods and in very different ways. He doesn't need a vegetable to save his life. I live on vegetables. He eats

all meat and other meat and potatoes basically. And I eat no meat. So last Sunday we're home and I went to do something, a workout or something. And I came back and he had sliced up all of these potatoes in these perfect little slices and fried them in some sort of sauteed them in some sort of ghee and then made me with vegan A's, my own Russian dressing to dip the potatoes in as a snack and gave it to me as an offering. And I was like, I was like, what is this? He's like, I'm nourishing you. So I didn't even have to ask him. It didn't even occur to me to ask him, but as he saw me putting emphasis on nourishing myself and speaking to the wound that the lack of nourishing had just a little bit and how I'm reparenting myself and I'm mothering

myself, that sweet little love was like, okay, I'll make you some nourishment. And like, he did it. Isn't that sweet? I love that story. I love, I didn't, I hadn't heard that one. And I, you know, I think that that's, that's the piece right in recovery and in healing is that as we start to recover, you know, so does the whole house and so does the family and so did our communities. And, and so we're really not doing it for ourselves, even though we're totally doing it for ourselves. It's such a wee movement. And so the beauty in that is there's so much more intimacy that will occur, right? Cause before it was control and survival. And like we talked about that reactionary piece and when we let go and surrender and we keep saying the full bodied, yes, even though in

something like this, your body has so much shadow around this story in this piece, right? The mother piece and how, you know, what would it even look like? Right. And so, yeah, the beauty of what's happening in there is very much the modeling and the, and the, like just the physical movement and also this, the gorgeous miracles that happen when space is made, when we allow for a new way of being and doing, which, I mean, it's a small percentage of us that are willing to do that until something really drastic comes along. And so my hope is that, you know, and I invite all of you who are listening and us too, right? It's layered. Like there are many, many places in my life where, you know, the light still needs to get turned on. And so, you know, it's a forever

conversation is what I call it. You know, and so this idea of nourishing our deepest lives lives in every aspect of our lives. It lives in business. It lives in this, our scarcity story, abundance, but really the biggest thing that I would say, and you were saying flow and ease is really permission. It's the permission to do it differently. And also to honor our ancestors who did what they could, you know, it's like, thank you. And I'm going to, you know, bless me as I do it differently. Yeah. Or come in the kitchen with me like my mom did. And so if someone's listening and they're like, I mean, obviously they can get the book, which is beautiful by the way. And it's not like a cookbook. It's a story. It's beautifully written. It's poetic. It's in little

chunks and thoughts, but they're really profound and beautiful. And then it's interspersed with beautiful photography and recipes. So obviously one thing you can do is to get the book, the kitchen healer. But if someone wants to kind of maybe take an action today to step into really either discovering what they're hungry for, or sometimes that's uncovered as we begin to nourish ourselves in a new way, we discover, oh, wow, I actually am hungry for something that may not even be food. It could be connection. It could be love. It could be passion, whatever you're hungry for. What is something that people can do today to maybe start stepping into this this magical land of opportunity is really what it is to grow and be more deeply nourished and

more deeply becoming yourself in Jules land. I mean, there are a million. Yeah. I mean, there's a million things, right? It's a big ask, but I would say that what's the first step that you would first, the first step, you know, as you were sharing, it's, I'm always kind of listening for the thing. That's like the top of my, my mind, the thing that comes through, which I know isn't me and it's something greater than me is slowing down because like, there's no way you can hear it if you're going really fast. And so I would say that I'm not waiting to slow down, like actually create intention around slowing down, even if it's just the moment you wake up in the morning and how you're waking up, just beginning right there in the beginning of the day, the fact that

you woke up is a miracle. And I mean, truly a miracle. And so the idea that we get so used to these mundane, minutiae kind of things. And so for me, it's really like, usually my first thought is not the thought I'm taking with me. It's going to be my second or third. And so that first thought, whatever that is, let that go. It's usually the stress, anxious one. And so the second or third one is usually finding your breath, feeling your feet. Those are my regular mantras. They're so, so basic, but I have to be where my feet are. And if I'm not, I'm somewhere else. And the more we slow down and undo, the more space and we're so wise. We really do know all the things like so much of my work like oh my god totally oh my god yeah and then the shame

of like why am i not doing that yeah because the the construct around us and everything we've said yes to and what's reflected to us and what looks like normal or you know staying up with the joneses and be a belonging and making sure we're surviving you know isn't that so yeah being gentle and giving yourself permission you know and i say that in our culture pasta machine it would be like unzip your pants and eat the ice cream, which I'm all about by the way. But I mean, like, that's not necessarily freedom either. And we all have it. It's the thing that's there that is telling us something, but it doesn't have the microphone because usually the shadow does. And so, you know, even getting to know that, that louder voice, like, Hey, why are you so loud? Like what's going

on? Like, what are you hungry for? Yeah. It's just like whatever, you know, Oh, my butt sagging or whatever the thing is that is a fake thing again, right. It's like knowing that the stories are all fake for number one. And number two, like, what are you hungry for? What are we really looking for inside the to-do list being done? What are we looking for when we want to look good? What are we really, what's under that? Like if we took that down the hall, what are we looking for?

And I do believe that we're looking for that feeling of being deeply fed and sated and held and and wanted and all of the things that we really can do with the fire and some music and nourishing ourselves with like a gorgeous marmalade and some salted butter. like just little things like that and offering it over to another and, and just being in our own bodies. I mean, that really is the work. That's the work of all work is just kind of walking toward ourselves. Yeah. And it changes you. I mean, I just, we've been doing this, I don't know, two or three weeks or three weeks maybe, but my girlfriend who I haven't seen, And, you know, she lives in Chicago and she came to stay for the night and she kept saying, who are you? I love this because I came out with a beautiful board of vegan cheeses and tomatoes from the farmer's market and little seed crackers. And I made her tea. And I was like, she's like, what? Who are you? And what have you done with Laura?

I was cracking up. I was like, I'm nurturing now. So I've always been emotionally nurturing, extremely emotionally nurturing, but not physically nurturing to myself or anyone else. So, and in follow-up of what you were saying with regard to just taking that first moment in the morning, one of the things Jules has had me doing because I really have separated from my meditation practice over the past several years is just taking five minutes before you open your eye or right when you open your eyes, but certainly before you turn on your phone. We put my phone in an envelope so I wouldn't be tempted. But just taking five minutes

first thing in the morning and the envelope actually reminds me that I'm supposed to do it so I don't forget. And just grounding and being in the body and saying, I sort of set my intention for the day. I open my heart. I move into home frequency. And it's beautiful because it's just a bite. I don't have to worry about my mind wandering or making it the full 20 minutes or whatever it is, those parameters that I usually set up for myself with a regular meditation practice that I go in and out of over the past 15 years. So there are these little practices that just bring you home to yourself and allow you to kind of tune in and stop the noise. And I feel like that's a big part of what the kitchen experience can be, is that it can be a place

where you're actually not doing another thing on your to-do list, but you're quieting the noise and being with yourself and being with the mindfulness of what you're doing. And yeah, maybe folding in to do things while you're doing that intermittently, but staying in that flow,

which I am not in nearly enough. So I'm so, so, so grateful to you. We'll put the book and your social media and website in the show notes of the podcast. I love show notes. Yeah. And what I want to say just about that part is that it's noisy until it's not. Yeah. It's noisy for all of us. Nobody wants to slow down and listen to the noise inside. No one. And what's so awesome is if you work it, it works. And so the more you walk toward that

noise, it gets less noisy. It's like a baby crying, right? You pick it up and that's what it needed, right? It's like, that's the part of us that just needs to be held. And so little by little, little by little by little by slow. Yeah. Beautiful. And it really is that what you can't be with will run your life. And eventually it catches up with all of us, but this is a one beautiful way to start really coming home to yourself in a gently nourishing way. So Jules, this is such a beautiful conversation. I feel like we'll probably have to have a part two down the line because I feel like this is just beginning and there's so much more to uncover. But guys, check out the book, The Kitchen Healer, check out Jules' work and, you know,

start thinking about nourishing yourself and what you're hungry for. prescription but there is no cure for