Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - The Telepathy Tapes & A Mother's Journey Beyond Loss with Libby Ingram

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

In this special Language of Love Conversation, I sit down with Libby Ingram, a speech therapist, grieving mother, and a central voice from the groundbreaking podcast The Telepathy Tapes. Libby shares the extraordinary story of her son, John Paul, a non-speaking autistic man with a genius level intellect, a deep telepathic connection to his peers, and a mission that continued even after his physical passing. Together, we step into the world of spellers, non speaking individuals who use letter boards to communicate. Libby helps us see a reality where these souls are not disabled, but differently abled, operating from a place of deep spiritual awareness. She describes how John Paul and his friends met daily on “The Hill,” a metaphysical gathering place where they shared knowledge and prepared for a purpose the world had not yet caught up to. Libby also talks about the ways communication never stopped, through numbers, songs, red roses of protection, and even a life saving pause at a traffic light. Her story reminds us that grief and joy are not opposites. They walk side by side, with our loved ones still very much present, cheering us toward life. We explore: What The Telepathy Tapes reveal when told through a mother’s lived experience How spelling unlocks intelligence hidden behind motor and sensory challenges Why non-speaking autistic children are deeply aware, connected, and conscious The metaphysical meeting place known as “The Hill” and how children connect there What telepathy looks like when it’s lived, not theorized How connection continues after death through signs, numbers, and symbols Why certain messages from loved ones arrive again and again How signs before a passing only make sense once you look back What it means to hold grief and joy at the same time without betraying love Why death doesn’t end love, it changes how love speaks Remember to explore the full depth of this story by listening to The Telepathy Tapes podcast, and connect with Libby on Instagram or through her community for resources on spelling and communication methods. You can also explore The Grief Healing Collective for ongoing support, workshops, and the upcoming Love Mama Retreat. And if you need a direct line, email anytime at [e-mail]. Your story matters. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman. And for the past 30 years, I've been helping people just like you learn to love and be loved better. Here on the Language of Love Conversations, I'm talking to some of the world's most influential and revolutionary experts, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, and celebrities about love, sex, and relationships from a mind, body, and spirit perspective. and that way my goal is to awaken your mind body and soul it's time to become fluent in the language of love i've told you guys and we've talked a lot about the telepathy tapes and i'll talk more about

that in a minute libby ingram was featured on the telepathy tapes with her son her family but especially with her son john paul who was you know one of the main characters there and we're going tell his story and her story, or she's going to tell it in a minute. But she has, I guess, for 25 years, Libby, you were a speech pathologist or a speech therapist. But what I love about her story, and I don't know, on this platform, we have all kinds of grievers. In this room, we have a lot of mamas. So we're going to speak to this from the mama perspective, because Libby is not only someone who is really central to the telepathy tapes, which are relevant to all grievers, and we'll get to that in a minute. But she is also a grieving mama, because she has twin

boys, and one of them, John Paul, who was the one featured in the telepathy tapes, is no longer here with us in human form. So she's not just an amazing resource, an example of what's possible on the other side of loss, but is a grieving mama as well, just like me and many of you. so Libby thank you so much for joining us oh you're welcome I'm so excited to be here I really am now I'm gonna try we're so grateful you're here and I'm gonna try to describe my understanding of the telepathy tapes and what they are especially for those folks who haven't listened to them yet I encourage everyone to listen to them but then I want you to because I'm really curious. In fact, I want you to first, because I'm really curious how you describe the

telepathy tapes when you explain what they are. And then let's, we'll get into your... Oh, you want me to describe them? Yeah. Okay. I'm just going to start from the beginning. In 22, my friend Katie, Houston's mom, who's also in the telepathy tape, she and I were kind of partners in crime with our non-speaking autistics. and we would you know see each other all the time and then one day she's like you know I'm doing this I'm in this project do you have any interest in being in it and she told me a little bit about it she had already shown me the telepathy and I said oh yeah I asked John Paul I said what do

you think John Paul and he spelled it has to be done is what he said so we started filming in 22 And it was really, I mean, my reasons for doing it and Don Paul's are for people to understand that spelling is a wonderful, meaningful way for them to communicate. The real problem is with them, but also they're telepathic in that their thoughts, they hear what you are thinking. So it matters. the the positivity and i mean we see awful things in our heads sometimes especially i don't know how many are autism moms but they can get really tough and they do some really crazy things and john paul was no exception and he was six eight three hundred pounds and he could get into a lot of trouble and um so you know i mean your head he's flushing all my jewelry down the toilet

it and I'm going oh so I would try you know but in my head I could say John Paul I love you more than my pearls I really do but I'm human so just let me get mad for a second and we're good we are so good because I never wanted him to carry that burden because he would come try to hand me stuff his OCD and his loops were so strong and so you know I just really think people should understand they are telepathic and it does matter and that there is something bigger than ourselves out there you know there is but regardless of how you believe what your religion is or if you don't have religion maybe you're just really spiritual there is something wonderful and greater and out there and it's it's good yeah so this is what i loved about it i mean so so backing up like a bigger

picture the telepathy tapes start and the principle of them and the purpose of them are kind of highlighting and showing this group of non-speaking kids on the spectrum, you know, pretty severe autism. So they're non-speaking and for the most part have been disenfranchised like most kids like them, disenfranchised from society, kept in remedial education. And most of the world and the educators and the people around them feel like there's no one in there. They're stimming, they're making weird sounds, they're not able to communicate. It seems like they don't understand anything and they don't, they can't communicate. And so when you're talking about spelling Libby, then we bring in, or they bring in this mechanism of spelling, which is basically,

you can explain it better than I, I'm just going to quickly do it, but it's basically, it's a method where they can use, you know, an electronic device to spell out what they want to say? Actually, Laura, it's just a laminated board. Oh, it is? I didn't imagine. Oh, yeah. No, it is the most cost effective. It can't break. Wow. I mean, you can move to Bluetooth, but all you're doing with the method is you are just training their motor system. To hit the numbers. To hit the letters. So they start spelling. Yeah. And you start with three boards because their motor system is impaired. That's the issue in the sensory systems. So it's really the method that is the, you can give them a letter board, but the method is what gets them there. And that's

the controversy. Yeah. Well, that's a separate issue. Yeah. But the point of this and for this group of grievers, I think that is important is that what they then discover as these kids start spelling and are now able to communicate through these letter boards with their caretakers, teachers, parents, is that not only are they in there, but they are genius level intelligence, like have access to wisdom and knowledge that most adults don't have access to. They are understanding everything. And tell me when I'm done with this, if I'm off at all, that'd be on my description, and that they are also, thus the name of the podcast series, telepathic. So they are reading their parents and caregivers and teachers and everyone's

minds, all your thoughts, and they are communicating with each other, all of them, most of them, and this is a wild, we'll get to that wild story too, but they are meeting in this place called the hill, they call it, where these kids from all over the country in the world, who to the rest of the world are not in there, are not at all intelligent, can't even, you know, everyone says they can't speak, they don't have motor control, they're, you know, and inside, they are genius level intelligence, reading our minds, reading each other's minds and communicating with each other telepathically. And so as you're listening to the telepathy tapes, you start to learn about all of these amazing stories of these kids and how they're communicating with each other.

And one kid is telling the mother about another mother's child. You know, like I'm going to ask you to tell us maybe a story about that. But all of this evidence that is indisputable starts coming through demonstrating this. And the key takeaway that I want to really drill down into in this conversation is the telepathic piece because and John Paul's story, because he once he transitioned and I'm not sure how long ago because the telepathy tapes were done a while ago, how long ago he transitioned, but he left his physical form just like the rest of our loved ones who have transitioned left. but he continues to communicate with all his friends and to give you messages and you were just saying earlier that he's giving you messages today because he's excited you're coming on all day all day all day he's been very busy making sure i got the numbers all day long he's like i can't wait so he communicates through numbers with his favorite numbers and and songs but

numbers are like that's his primary thing which is so funny because i have dyscalculia So I'm not a numbers girl. Yeah. At all. But he was such a numbers boy. He said he would spell, I see numbers in everything. And, you know, once we started spelling, he was doing algebra, pre-calc. I mean, people were just blown away.

But anyway, yeah, numbers are his thing. Everyone in my family that's passed has a different way of communicating with me. Everyone kind of passed within sort of a short time together a little bit. So it's very obvious who's sending me what message. i'm feeling a little army behind me i think you're feeling a little army behind i'm sure and you were saying earlier when we were talking before this that you were telling this beautiful story of john paul um i mean this is just an example because this is the other thing guys with these and it's not just john paul it's all the kids that were featured in telepathy tapes

And I believe all the kids, you know, like this, non-speaking autistic kids or kids with autism, is that he would tell the story of him being in the hot tub. Because they're also, because they're not just telepathic, they're seeing things and communicating with the other side. So one of the things that kind of plays out as you're listening to the telepathy tapes and they're talking to different experts who work with these kids and who have been studying them and and even communicating with them there's a way in which part of the reason the belief is and this is my understanding that part of the reason it's so hard for them to speak and control

their bodies is because they aren't fully in their bodies like the rest of us they are more in their light body they aren't fully embodied they're more in their spirit body so they that's part of the reason they can telepathically communicate with everyone but it's also gives them access to things that most of us can't take in with our five bodily senses. So they also are kind of mediums as well. They're communicating with the other side. And there were so many stories in there of these kids that were telling their mother or father or caretaker

about a loved one on the other side who they didn't even know existed, like a grandfather of their mother, right? Who they didn't even have a connection to giving a message, right? So can you give some examples of John Paul? Oh gosh, so many. Well, the one we talked about earlier is, so John Paul with his big body and he did lots of

goofy things. My father, who was a wonderful human being and very generous, and he helped me with some of the therapy, a lot of the therapies, because it's so expensive in the autism world and stuff. And he did have a hard time. He did struggle with John Paul, just in general. Some people are really good. My stepfather could handle John Paul beautifully and spelled with them, but my dad really struggled and, you know, he kind of stayed away and it was, it just, you know, it was hurtful. And then as I have, it's some time, you know, I think I'm a lot more forgiving, but what happened is John Paul was in the hot tub and he's looking up and I said, John Paul, who's here? Because I could ask him that. And he would let me know who's here.

And he spelled granddaddy and aunt X. Well, aunt X was the nickname for aunt Helen, which was my dad's aunt. She was the mysterious great aunt that I never really knew. And John Paul knew her. And I said, you know, what are they doing? Or, you know, is there a message? And John Paul spelled, I'm sorry. And then he said, I said, well, what are they doing? And he spelled learning where they're learning, which is so interesting to me because I listened to Larlin Jackson's book, Signs and the Light Between Us after Jakey passed. And Larlin talks about when you pass and you go to heaven that you can have a job different jobs and she said one of the jobs is learning yeah and I thought that was so interesting that he said the exact same word that

Laura Lynn used yeah we by the way John Paul jumped in on Laura Lynn once John Paul jumped in on her once um when I had sent something to Jeff Tarrant and Laura Lynn texted me the next day and she's like dumb paul got the vip pass he jumped in on my computer screen and he's not going anywhere until i deliver this message and what was the message she wanted me to know that he is so eloquent now and that the angels are teaching him how to speak and have the right and put the right words in people's mouths for what they need to say and that he is um just that he is so funny which he was hilarious. For a kid that didn't talk, he was a riot and just had such a good, you know, nature about him. And she said that he knows the loss is profound. You know, he knows

how hard this is, but he's, he's guiding you on your grief journey, but he does know. And that's, you know, he tries to let me know he's around all the time. And how long ago did he pass? He passed in September of 23. So we had just started, we had filmed and done a telepathy tests in 22 I mean John Paul's 100% and it was just it was so awesome and then you know he dies and then Kai called and said you know I think John Paul has a bigger role in this and she said would you be willing to do a podcast and I said oh of course absolutely because I kind of want to see his mission through you know like I want him he actually one of the autistic spell when he was at my house a friend of ours Noah literally said you know that John Paul told he told the whole

group he's leaving because he came he said he's leaving because his body can't continue the mission as god designed it but he can from heaven so this is important because in and you talk and they talk you share this in the telepathy tapes but this idea is a really important part of the story is that you find out after he he dies and we'll talk about how that happened in a minute but after the fact these kids his friends essentially tell you or spell because they aren't talking, but they communicate to you that he told all of them and we'll talk about what he did with you that day, but he didn't, he didn't tell you he was going, but he, he warned all of them. I'm going to be leaving because there were signs. And now that I look back, there were things

that happened leading up to it. I just, you know, now it makes sense, but it didn't make sense back then, but now it makes perfect sense. So what happened? Cause I remember on the story, I don't remember all the details. I want to hear you tell it, but on the day that he died, he died of what you believe is a heart attack or a heart issue in the hot tub. He loved being in the hot tub. Um, but that day before what had happened and what, and I guess that's part of the science you're talking about. Yes. Well, I mean, it was a few days before he was in the hot tub and he was obviously having a conversation with somebody because he kept looking up and he, cause I used to sit in my sunroom and watch him in the hot tub if I it was just such a nice thing to watch him

from there because he enjoyed it so much and he was looking up and then he'd look over at me and smile and wave and then go back to looking up and like flicking his ear almost like he's just having this conversation and normally I would have asked him who was there but I didn't that day and then I was talking to Katie and I looked up it was like three in the afternoon I was taking a walk around the yard and I look up and there's this huge owl at three o'clock just staring at me from a branch. So I'm like, that's so weird. You don't usually see them in the day. And then I circle my yard. I come back. There's two owls. I circle again, three. I circle again, four. There are four owls on a branch just staring at me at three in the afternoon. I said, I said,

Katie, I don't know what this means, but this is very, I mean, I've always believed in signs and that, and you know, and so I said, it's just, it means something, but what? And Bobby Vogel told me later she said oh that they were there for his they wanted to help take the spirit up but so were my dad and my stepdad they were all together you know when I think about now and then the day we went to bike squad he was just chasing everyone down to high five them like goodbye friend goodbye friend and you know he was and then when he said goodbye to me I was just so tired I couldn't keep my eyes open I had to sleep and I said sweetie I have to lay down and he just touched my arm so sweet and smiled and he was so quiet and he smiled and he just walked off and then that's the last

time he was alive and I saw him you know when I woke up and I saw him in the hot tub and it was floating and and we tried to revive him it was unbelievably you know horrible and his twin was up in the attic so he missed all of it thankfully I caught him on the staircase after he had passed i could hear thomas thomas had no clue this is his twin brother yes this is his twin and i caught him on the stairs and i just we just collapsed on the staircase i mean he was it was just so it was so horrible i know everyone here's experienced it it's just so horrible and i felt so um i mean i know everyone knows this feeling it's the worst feeling in the world I didn't know how to even exist in my body.

I just wanted to unzip my skin off and just disappear, you know, and all that energy into taking care of him. I had so much energy and I was always on high alert because he had seizures and, you know, if it got too quiet, I was waiting for a bang or down the sea. And it was just, it was always something, you know, whether you swallow a button battery. And so when he was suddenly gone, I just couldn't, and whether or not he's autistic or not, it's just my friend who lost her son in fourth grade she was such a big help to me yeah he thought of an aneurysm he was neurotypical and i remember when he thought it was like 10 years ago and

they're jewish and it was at the synagogue and that's she's the one who said let me need the shiva even though i'm you know i was i'm raised christian you know my stepfather was Jewish but she's like we gotta have a shiva you cannot leave her alone i was actually scared to be alone i couldn't stand everyone handles it differently you know like some people want to be alone and They just want to sit in their quiet. But I just had to have people. The quiet killed me. Yeah.

The quiet. I love that. I love that. And some beautiful things happened during that shiva, so to speak. So there were people in your house every single day and many, many, many. All day long. All day long. And many, many, many of his friends, his non-speaking autistic friends, were coming over.

over. And we're going to get to his girlfriend in a minute, because that's an amazing story. But I want to hear this story. There were so many times, Libby, when I was crying listening to the telepathy tapes. But your story, of course, not just when John Paul died, but all the way through and afterwards, I was bawling so often. And this story, it still makes me tear up when that boy came and gave you a hug. Can you tell that story? Oh, yes. Well, that actually happened after that happened about a month or two that was a month after okay and I still you know I still like to be involved in the community and volunteer and stuff it's just how can you leave the community that you've loved so much for so long you know and um we were doing a hike and Noah one of his

buddies came up and yes he doesn't like to be touched he's never ever touched me he comes up and he just gives me this huge hug and then he backs away for a second he comes back in for another so three times he just grabs me and hugs me tight and then the last time he goes he breathes in my hair he goes like that as hard as he could and breathe in and um his mother said later because I was in his 20s he said Noah said that John Paul asked if he could inhabit his body so that he could hug me and smell my hair and um it was just priceless he also grabbed Katie too he wanted something from katie so he came he came out just looking at each other like because this is a kid who doesn't touch anyone doesn't want to be touched no i've known noah for over eight years

not once and no and it's happened with other kids too other kids have come up and hugged me or done things that i think john paul's like man can i just jump in for a second and so they just move out of the way and he just oh that's so sweet yeah it's really special it really is yeah i love it so let's just back up because i want to make sure for people who haven't listened to the telepathy tapes one of the things that starts to you know as the story unfolds it's a beautiful i mean kai who's the producer it's a beautiful storyteller she does such an amazing job and it feels like to a certain extent she's discovering it as she's you know she's kind of waking up as this is happening. But one of the things that pretty quickly gets

discovered as she starts talking to more and more of these families and these kids is that there is this place, a metaphysical location, it's not in 3D, that they all call the hill. And they all go and meet meet at the hill and and there were all these stories of people in different towns and maybe you can share some of them different towns different cities around the world who their parents and caretakers were connecting with each other because their kids were meeting in this place called the hill so can you talk about what the hill is and absolutely so the hill is so what god would do is he'd come home and he'd come and lay in bed he'd put about four or five he had a routine he'd come home strip first because he hated clothes so get naked and then

he would run upstairs put about four or five pillows over his head and he would just be like like talking crying laughing and I would come in and I would like John Paul just check on him and he pushed me away like woman let me talk yeah and so you know it's he did it every day sometimes if something happened in the house that like maybe upset him whatever also he'd run upstairs to report on it you know he'd put pillows over his head and get busy so I felt like he would do it multiple times a day and sometimes I'll talk to moms who haven't found spelling yet or they don't realize all the things that are going on in their child you know and you just you want them to believe it's hard for people who've been told something else for so long to suddenly believe

you just because you said it yeah you really I'll never stop talking about this because parents need to know and then I would say do they ever just kind of disappear and go off on their own and just get quiet or and they'll all like look at me like yeah every day and it's like they're talking and I said yes that's the hill and it looks different for different kids but you know John Paul I felt like he said, we communicate like the root system of trees is what he said. And Houston called it a frequency, which is the same idea, you know, and John Paul used to just always say, we're all connected. We're all one. John Paul talked about God and love and he'd spell, nothing matters here, mom, just love. He'd say, nothing matters. He would, he was so, if someone was mean to him,

he really would, he'd spell, they don't understand, just love them. And those were, you know I wanted to wring someone's neck if they weren't nice to him and he just said they don't understand mom he could see Thomas's twin one time asked him what his like superpower sometimes people hate hearing that word with autism but John Paul said what he does is he can see somebody and he can see their pitfalls and understand why they did what they did but just to love them anyway that was his gift and you know it's so funny because if I you know have my little instagram live like john paul and i'll work on a reel and sometimes they're a little i mean i'll be in a certain mood when i start i'm like maybe i'm just irritated and i just want to talk about

something that really irritated me but john paul i swear he's right here on my shoulder like mom keep editing please just keep editing it's not there yet bring it down keep the love in it mom please you know so sometimes they start out one way and they end up another way and it's just because he's constantly whispering in my ear remember to love mom and you feel that and here oh absolutely absolutely yeah he's changed me he had so much oh yeah he's changed me from being as reactionary to things because i'll sit there and i'll try to you know think and i feel like because i'm getting those thoughts in that john paul just saying mom it doesn't matter None of this matters.

This is all an illusion. This is all, we're just here doing our best, you know, just, I mean, that's kind of how I feel like his message is like, there's something so much greater later, mom, get over it. That's love. Wasn't he the one that said, just love them? Yes, always. He'd say, just love them, mom, just love them. He said, you know, we had to fill out like 28 questions before we got, I don't want to say accepted into the tapes, but, and one of them was, you know, it was a lot, and Paul, really, I'm so thankful for those questions because they're so priceless to me now.

Yeah. Because I really got to ask him so many things that I would never have asked him otherwise. Like, what is he afraid of? What is he, you know, and he was afraid of not being able to complete his mission. you know that what was his mission what was what is his mission I think what's happening right now is the mission you know and um he just said he just you know that was his fear that that he wouldn't be able to seek to he wouldn't be alive for it you know and maybe he knew he must have known he was gonna go early he did he did he told everybody and he knew and he also knew how hard it

would be for me so that's when he found Becky during the shiva and I don't know if anyone's listened to the celebrity page but Becky is someone that my friend Jennifer was interviewing my friend Jennifer does the show Your Fantastic Mind with Emory University and she used to be in the news but she was interviewing this woman Becky and she had to cancel the interview because JP died and she was going to come stay with me and everyone like I had a different girlfriend spend the night with me every night it was he just slept and laughed and cried and you know it was just such a precious time really and anyway Jennifer comes in the next day and she's like Libby I've got to tell you something and it's this woman she knows John Paul she died from a seizure that she

had had the heaven experience and then was brought back a near death sorry she had a near death but She saw heaven, but the portal never closed. And so she's always giving people random heaven messages ever since then. She just has to do it. And she doesn't do it for money. She doesn't even want her identification really on the documentary, you know, to be known. Because it's just something she does when it's supposed to be. And she said, this boy has been telling me not to go find my mother.

Please go talk to my mother. And he found it through. He saw a way through with Jennifer. And so she's like, oh, my God, I've got to go to her house, hug her, and tell her all the things John Paul wants her to know about his death. And she stayed for about three hours. My friends were all on the floor. And the very first thing she said, which was so interesting, John Paul had very severe pica. And if you don't know what pica is, it's eating inedible things.

Kind of like pregnant women can get it. But John Paul had it so severe. It was a terrible thing. He would eat males and vagaries. Yeah, we were in the hospital. He one time swallowed five four-inch nails, and he was luckily able to spell. It hurt so bad. I thought he was having an appendicitis.

And then we go, and there's nails, and there's a key in there, and there's a wire in there. He used to throw up almost after every meal. He would go to the sink and throw up, and I would literally have to pick the things he ate all day because the disposal couldn't take them down. And it was like you couldn't stop him from it. and we had to lock the kitchen and he knew it was nuts that's the thing he knew that this was not normal he just couldn't stop it he couldn't help it and um so what did Becky say it was a really so the first thing he says to Becky is tell mom I'm full that was the very first thing he said tell mom I'm full and she said really he's just satisfied you know he's finally satisfied and

he's whole and he's you know she said he's full of love and she said he's in and he wanted me to know and he wanted me to know that there was no pain and that he died in his favorite place on a perfect day with all of us resting and that I he is so happy she said if you could see him now he's like nine feet tall he has no body fat just like he is just like this glorious warrior walking through heaven she said he she said he is just so and we've had other autistics say um one time i was i was at doing the art at nia school and and malia spells i see john paul and then she says john paul said he's so sorry he had to leave but he loves his position and view from heaven and he said tell she said tell peter that's my husband or tell dad i'm sorry i left him with all

of mom's love overflow. But you know, that kind of stuff happens to me and I feel like I got such a gift because I don't think, you know, not every mom or they don't believe it. And I think it's so hard if you just think it's the end and that's it. I just, I think that, yeah, I feel like part of John Paul's mission is to let people know that it's not the end, that it's okay, you know? And they're still here. They're still here. Oh my goodness. I mean, Becky said, Libby, if you could understand that he's just right here. He's literally next to you. I love how you pointed to your right side. You're like, because that's where I always feel Sammy, too, on the right side.

But there was something I was going to ask you about with regard to Becky and that mess. Oh, I know what it was. That so often, because at this point, I've been to, we've been to conferences. I've talked to so many mediums and friends who are mediums and who have died and come back. And they all, I want to go back to the job thing. They have every single one of them on their own and they don't all communicate with each other. They don't know each other. They're all saying it in different ways, but they're saying the same thing. And it is that on the other side, there's no density. It's all like this super, super high

frequency and it's instant manifestation. So they can create worlds. They can have jobs. We went to this Helping Parents Heal conference with a thousand grieving parents and there must have been 20 different mediums there or near-death experiencers speaking over the weekend and every single one of them in one way or the other would be like okay you know reading someone and say oh your daughter is showing me she did she want to be a teacher or work with children because she's showing that she's helping the kids that are coming in adjust and teaching them how everything works and you know getting them set up with what they want to learn about and they were like yes she was about to go to graduate school for to become an educator so I did this guided meditation

where I was able to go to Sammy's world where he could show me his world and I was peeing in my pants laughing. I mean, I couldn't have made this shit up. He takes me to this futuristic world, up this glass elevator to this tricked out beyond smart apartment, which was so thin, but I couldn't have even made this up.

And then there's this robot there doing dishes and I look over and I'm like, who, what is that? and he looks at me with this grin on his face and says Svetlana. Now I had forgotten about Svetlana but when he was five years old or four years old he saw some cartoon and he became obsessed with the name Svetlana and every stuffed animal was named Svetlana. He told me he was going to marry someone Svetlana named Svetlana. Eventually we all forgot about Svetlana but on the other side he introduced me to his robot and he got this like you know his sideways like cheeky grin on he's like that's Svetlana and I cracked up but it was this whole world he had created

and I really do think that they do that and it's so cool that you got you got the same message so yes so he created him he created his own world yes so Lily Lily was his girlfriend here and still is still apparently so that was a really beautiful story too because you were I think if I remember the story correctly you were saying that she came over she was obviously despondent and devastated and was there with you guys coming over every day for weeks yes until what happened and not that you're not still connected to her but she suddenly was it that she suddenly realized she could communicate oh yeah i'm on the hell still i think you know lily lily's just like don paul she can get very dysregulated you know and like in her body they're actually like he's

in a pod the way they are and they were so that they just adored each other so much and i do believe i don't know maybe he didn't tell her he was leaving maybe he didn't want her to try to convince him not to the one you know i think i'm caught in choice because when he'd had other ways he could have left this world but this was the final you know and so she was so dysregulated whether she knew or not just you know and it was so it just it was that really broke my heart more i was so upset you know watching her get so upset but then you know scott is such a great father and so it was karen they're the wonderful parents and scott brought her literally over because lily needed to be with me and she needed to be at the house. So we brought her over every night

and then she started calming down. And I put the board and I said, Lily, I said, are you talking to John Paul? She said, yes. She was so much better. And I said, what's he saying? And she spelled, remember, I always love you. You need to tell our story. And then later she said, John Paul said, you need to rest to me. I said, you need to sleep because of course, and I don't sleep very well anymore and especially after jp passed sleep is just was impossible and i mean i couldn't sleep i still struggle with it even you know we're going on two years and it's still very hard i want to just i almost don't want to sleep i want to stay awake and not have to sleep and wake up i don't know it's weird and i'm sure there's a lot of people here

And it's so hard to explain to someone, but, you know, sleep, it's almost like, I don't know why, but Lily said, Don Paul said, you have got to sleep and that I must rest. And so he's still looking out for me. You know, I really think he's still, and I just had a reading from a friend who I didn't know she was a medium, but she was older and she was older than me at school, But she reached out to me and said, I'd really love to come see you and talk to you. And she said that Dom Paul calls me his rose. And that he puts a wreath of red roses, like he puts almost a hula hoop of red roses around me. But really interesting about that is I was at Katie's.

It's so interesting how, you know, like if you think about, and it's just that I talked to another autism mom. her child is still here on earth sarah intonato she's wonderful and she does a lot of meditation she was talking about roses and the power and the protection yeah high frequency this is our protection yeah yes that's exactly so she told me that so then peter walks in later with 12 with a dozen red roses for me this is your husband yes that day and then i was at katie's that evening celebrating her daughter's 30th birthday and I'm and so the thing was he protects you know he protects so I was at a I was coming home it was very late it was almost I was like 11 something and I was at the start at the light this was way up at the lake and all of a sudden I look at the

clock and one of the numbers he gives me is 11 11 and I'm like oh I mean it just something made me look at I'm like oh I always snapshot it I kiss it I put my thumbs on it because when I do I feel a surge every time I do it so when I see those numbers I literally I put my thumb on I close my eyes I get this beautiful energy go through my body every single time and so then I looked up I'm like oh no the light's green so I started going but it paused me I go around the corner and of course it's dark there's this truck that they're obviously drunk as skunks and i am turning this way and it's coming this way and if i had left when the light had been first screen and not seen that and made me look i would probably be in the hospital now or dead

because they they corrected at the exact yeah one even a bad pod before i would have been And I even went, it actually took my breath away. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, John Paul, thank you. Well, you know, I felt like that was like putting the roses around you. It was. It was. And they do. And he is a protector, you said.

And you've gotten that message. And what I love, I love so many things, not just the story itself, which I think is such a beautiful example of confirmation, because I say this all the time, that when those signs come it's really important to acknowledge them not because they're going to be pissed or disappointed that you don't acknowledge them but when you do it adds oomph and momentum under like they're like oh she gets it and then they do more and then but if you don't acknowledge it or you're saying to yourself i'm just making this shit up then they go and they're like okay she's not getting it i gotta think of something else i gotta find something else so when you recognize the

signs and you celebrate them and then they give you more because it's like you're working together and I think that's such a beautiful all of it is a beautiful story and the other thing that I really love about you and your story and you and I are like this way although I think you're maybe even a little better at it than I am is that you really are such a beautiful example and have been all the way through, even before John Paul transitioned, of holding joy as well as pain at the same time. And so often in grief, I talk about this constantly, how, I mean, obviously there's a period of time where we are just tanked and in the devastation. And then part of the evolution on the grief journey is being able to hold the grief and the joy at the same time. So can you

speak to that a little bit sure and I will say that you know dump was so jump on that and I mean I couldn't literally couldn't get off the floor you know it was one of the things that people were coming over and I told Peter said I love that people are here but I just I need to lie down but I didn't want to leave so Peter goes well get some blankets and he made a little bed for me in the living room floor and so my friends would just come up and you know lay or spoon me someone would come up and lay behind me and talk to me we have this hilarious this is terrible but I don't know if I should even tell this story it was like okay is it a is it a shy group so as long as we're all everyone can handle it everyone can it's pretty funny well you know it's like I mean there's

you know grief and joy and laughter are so closely connected and things would happen and I could not stop laughing because things would strike me as so funny even my twin comment or John Paul's twin one time came in and he's like mom Jenny and I could not stop laughing because it was just almost like this weird but so one of my friends who is so sweet um she is kind of like she's very type a and most a lot of my friends are very type a because i'm kind of type b and so i don't mind them bossing me around and telling me what to do you know anyway but my friend didn't realize that a lot of my friends i've known since i was five years old that were coming over and they're type a my friends type it's like all this like who's taking care of her i'm taking care of her no i'm

taking care of her yeah okay so she comes in with this hilarious it was adorable this pumpkin with a beautiful flower. You could see, like, the pride and joy on her face. You know, that she was walking in with this, like, gift, you know. And it was so sweet. But my friends all were like, and so she kept talking about the gift she had brought. And the woman, this is terrible, the woman's name, I want to say it first, her last name is Kuntz.

Uh-oh. Her last name is Kuntz. That's so unfortunate last name. but anyway my friend one of my friends from high school i'm laying on the ground and i'm just like crying and feeling miserable and my friend comes over and she lowers it right in front of my face and she goes did you see this is from blah blah cunts enjoy this is from cunts that's it you got it and like i could not stop laughing i was just like they would all come in there all doing the same thing did you see the arrangement that came from and everyone was just saying the last name

over and we were just dying it was so funny yeah i've never told the girl that brought it she would not have appreciated oh really she won't listen to this but it is funny and what you're speaking to is that ability to and you were always this way i mean you spoke about this on the telepathy tapes and even in your stories like you would find the humor which i'm the same way. I have a very, I have like a 12 year old sense of humor, 12 year old boy's sense of humor. And I also feel like very often when I'm, you know, when I'm crying, I would just start cackling at the same time. Like it is all those places in the brain are related. And it's also even just separate from the laughter. It's also, I've just watched you as I've listened to you and seen

your interviews and whatever, you are able to hold the pain of his loss, knowing that he's still here and you can still be connected and get these messages and guidance from him and be sad about it often, I'm sure. Oh yeah. And also be in joy. It's so true. I mean, even today, I mean, I don't know. I'm sure you all, my day was like this. Like a rollercoaster. A total rollercoaster. Well, Well, Thomas went back to college today, so I put all his stuff together, helped him, and I just boo-hooed. He left, and then I cried, and I'm like, you know, it just is. And then I went walking with my friend. I knew when I walked with my friend, it's going to cheer me up a little bit.

To get some exercise makes a big difference, you know, whether it's just a 20-minute walk or I just go outside and just get some sun. You know, that makes a difference to me. but I mean no I mean I'll probably even later tonight maybe have a moment that I feel and sometimes I just have to breathe through it like yeah you know it's almost like I know this is gonna pass but ouch yeah it hurts so bad right in my gut you know like right in my solar plexus and it's like but I know I'm gonna be okay maybe in 10 or 20 minutes I'm gonna breathe through this I know this feeling and it's not going to last, you know, and just, just ride it. It's okay.

He's okay. See, Peter, my husband has this thing that he goes to and he's, he and I are very different. He said, let me, and it's actually, I do the same thing now, but he says, I go to the things when I feel bad. I go, did we do the best we could? Yes. Did we give them the best life we could? Yes.

Is he okay? yes is he still here yes you know he kind of goes through the checklist so I kind of go through my checklist and say okay it's gonna be okay you're not gonna feel this way maybe in some like 10 minutes just breathe breathe and um I've been you know I didn't think it's just a journey but I've always been sort of a I've always been a happy person and a positive person and I told I can't be this sad forever because I don't want the next however long I have on this earth to feel this terrible you know I just can't be this this is just not the way I want and I knew that wouldn't be honoring Don Paul either you know but it's hard it's like almost like we always say

how Peter and I say this you know it's it's a choice and I'll be like I'm gonna freaking be happy even if it kills me right now for god's sakes woman you know yeah well I mean because it's just you know I don't want to be sad and and and I can tell and I've also my friend who lost her son in fourth grade Liesl she said pine is also your friend yeah you know like that will help you it will and it did it does help it doesn't there's some days I can go right back to that bad, icky place. Yeah. But at the same time...

They aren't tsunami waves in the same way. They are... Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And I think if I didn't, and I do believe in proof

that he's around, you know, but if I didn't feel so strongly about that, I think it would be harder. Yeah. I think my friend struggles with it

and I said, well, honey, I can't wait for one day when you do die, you're going to be so pleasantly surprised. Yeah. I said,

that's what I'm going to tell you. And I'm not going to try to convince you. I said, I don't want, I'm not going to preach to you for God's sakes. I said, I would never do that. All I'm going to ever say to you is I can't wait for your day. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, and you and I are going to go, wow. Yeah. You and I, and I think that about my poor husband, cause he doesn't believe in that either. And it's so hard, you know, but once you have the experience, uh, that's why we always have at our retreats and in our events and on the Grief Healing Collective, we always have a really good medium involved as well because once you have that experience and you understand and you've had a million experiences

like that, then it helps so much. It doesn't get rid of the fact that you can't squeeze them and hug them and talk to them in the voice to voice and face to face, but it really helps. I'm so appreciative of you sharing your story with us and being here. Thank you so much.