Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Turning Temptation into Transformation with Mark Walberg

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

What if the role you’ve played your whole life—the one that made people love you, trust you, applaud you—was actually the thing keeping you from yourself? In this moving Language of Love Conversations, I sit down with Mark Walberg—not the Ted movie star, but the television host known for his charm, wit, and steady presence on hit shows like Antiques Roadshow and Temptation Island.  After watching this season of Temptation Island for the first time, I was stunned. Despite having no clinical training, Mark intuitively held space for confessions, breakdowns, and deep self reckonings,— guiding the cast through their fears, blind spots, and emotional blocks with incredible insight and timing. He was doing a better job than lots of therapists I know! I had to understand where that wisdom came from. Mark didn’t disappoint.  In this Language of Love Conversation, he pulls back the curtain and shares his own journey, from the pressures of fame to the private unraveling that brought him to his knees, and eventually to a place of radical honesty. We talk about the fear of feeling, the cost of emotional suppression, and how it’s never too late to come home to yourself. Here’s a sneak peek… The surprising lessons Mark learned about love while hosting Temptation Island How a successful career became a hiding place—and what it took to step out of it Why approval from the crowd can’t replace real connection The childhood wounds he carried into adulthood—and how he finally began to face them What happens when you stop numbing and start feeling The role his wife played in calling him back to himself How fatherhood cracked him open in the best (and hardest) ways Why vulnerability might just be the most courageous thing a man can offer Remember to follow Mark Walberg’s continuing story on his website and socials. Also make sure to check out the Grief Healing Collective for a community of like minded people, amazing resources on grief healing, and live healing sessions and events.  You can also check out my Good Grief Course. Got thoughts? Stories? Or a revelation of your own? Email me at [e-mail]! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman. And for the past 30 years, I've been helping people just like you learn to love and be loved better. Here on the Language of Love Conversations, I'm talking to some of the world's most influential and revolutionary experts, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, and celebrities about love, sex, and relationships from a mind, body, and spirit perspective. And that way, my goal is to awaken your mind, body, and soul. It's time to become fluent in the language of love.

Mark Wahlberg has been a fixture of American television for decades. Many enjoyed him as the host of Antiques Roadshow, PBS's highest-rated original primetime show. He also, more recently, reprised his role as host of the hit dating reality show, Temptation Island, on USA Network. I watch some reality television. I ended up watching Temptation Island this season because my husband was watching it and wanted me to watch it with him. We don't have a lot of shows we watch together. And I have to tell you, I was blown away. I didn't really know Mark Wahlberg.

I'd seen him on a couple of things, but I was blown away by this guy, the level of intuition, the level of insight. Like, I thought he was a therapist and a really, really good one. It turns out Mark Wahlberg has had zero clinical training, and this is all just coming from someplace inside of him. I needed to understand who this man is, where all of this came from, and dig into some of how he operates in general and on this hit television show that maybe you have seen. And if not, I highly recommend it, Temptation Island on the Language of Love.

Mark Wahlberg, thank you so much for joining us on the Language of Love. I'm really honored that you asked. I'm really excited to be here. Thank you. Aw, that's so nice. I'm honored you said yes. Because I got to say, you know, I've been a therapist, as my peeps here know, for 30 years. And I'll be honest, I wasn't really that into watching Temptation Island at first,

but my husband and I don't have a lot we watch together. He likes the rock'em sock'em violent stuff. And I like what he thinks is depressing stuff, you know, about emotions and dramas and things like that. But he started watching. He's like, you got to watch this show with me. And I sort of, no threat to your wife in a platonic way, I kind of fell in love with you. Oh, thank you. Because I got to say, I see a lot of hosts. I see a lot of talk show hosts and all sorts of people and even therapists and the degree of insight, intuition, thoughtfulness. I was like, I think he might've been trained. Like, I think he might actually be a therapist. And then I looked you up and I was like, oh, my gosh, she's I don't this dude has never had a fraud.

No, not that you're a fraud, but you've never had any clinical training and you're better. And we'll talk about sort of the process, but you're better at it than a lot of therapists. I know. I'm so honored you'd say that because one of my biggest trepidations on the show. And I'll go back a little bit to tell you that that was never my intention, nor do I even think it was the show's intention for me to take on that role. But what happened in these unscripted moments was my heart opens and I go to a place of what helps here. And my trepidation is because I have no clinical training that my fear is misguiding someone. So I'm very careful. It's always on my mind.

I'm always qualifying to them. Consider your source and get professional help. Yeah. But to hear you say that makes me blush. Thank you. No, you really do. Because just, I mean, for those of you, the premise of the show, you probably explain the premise better than I do. But they bring several, I don't know how many couples.

Four. Four couples who are in committed relationships but are having questions or issues of trust or not sure if they want to take it to the next level or trying to decide whether to throw in the towel or not. And they basically separate them into two houses and fill the houses with temptations with a whole bunch of really horny, hot people whose basic job it is. I mean, it seems like some of them really want a relationship, too, but their basic job is to tempt and to try to be a temptation to these people. So, first of all, your first, you know, my first question is always like, who the F would sign up for this? And I say to them when they're there, nobody in their right mind would do that. A lot of them are probably looking for clout and just wanting to be on TV, I'm assuming. I say exactly that.

Why are you here? And often they'll say, well, we have issues with our relationship. We're hoping to work out. I'm like, okay, I think you're probably here mostly for clout, but it's okay because the route to both of those things is exactly the same. Honesty and authenticity gets you followers. Honesty and authenticity gives you answers of why it's not firing on all pistons. So, and I also say to them, I don't know what brought you here. I don't know what you're going to try to manage.

I don't know what you thought this was, but it gets real at some point for everybody at a different point. But I'm letting you know now it's going to get real. And when that happens, I'll be right here. Yeah. And that's what you do that I haven't seen any other hosts do. I have done it on my television shows when I've done shows. But that's because I'm there as a therapist and I'm with that purpose, with that purpose.

Right. You are doing it. So basically where it comes out, guys, is that there's at the end. I don't know if it's each episode or a case. I don't know how often the bonfires happen. Yeah. So that either starts with ends with one or starts with. Right. And there are these bonfires where you see. And of course, this is the producer's role. right where you see a really provocative usually incriminating piece of video so let's say it's a couple that have said okay our rule is we're just gonna you know we're not gonna touch anyone else and then you see the first bonfire and one of the partners is having a lap dance and having someone touch all over him or or you see much more provocative stuff like them as it goes on it

It gets racy. Or sometimes they put in a clip where something didn't really happen, but the person watching the clip doesn't know and it could have been something could have happened right after it cuts off. Right. But those bonfires are always really rough. And I read something where you said that you don't watch the clips before, which I thought was really interesting. So so you don't watch the clip before the cast sees the video. And so, guys, this is where Mark's therapizing kicks in, because basically they are watching these horrific things and they're freaking out. And you, the viewer, and I'm assuming you, Mark, are also aware of their agreements and at this point kind of aware of what their insecurities are and their issues are. and you're watching them like you're watching this woman who's maybe had all these trust issues because her boyfriend has cheated on her many times and now they've gone a year and a half with no cheating and they're thinking about getting engaged and she's feeling really hopeful

and like she can really trust him and he's proven himself to her and now she sees him doing something's totally inappropriate or you're dealing with him after she has seen something really inappropriate and the level of patience and like, I don't know that I could do it. I would. Well, I think, you know, I think this is an interesting point. I think you as a doctor with clinical training and a lifetime of experience, it would be more difficult because you'd want to go right in ice and help cure. I walk carefully on this. And so Where I go is I make the distinction subtly. Sometimes I point it out pointedly.

We watch the clip. I haven't seen it beforehand. In all candor, sometimes I have an idea of what it's going to be. Watch it so I can say, well, we'll see it together. And then I usually say, what did you see? Yeah. Because what it is and what you saw are usually different. What a therapist would say.

How the F do you even know to ask that? Well, I've had therapy. and I'm in therapy, as everyone should be. Yeah, I agree. But I really give most of the credit. I give a lot of credit to my wife, but I'm also going to give some credit to myself because I've watched some of your clips

and I think I have to love myself a little more. So thank you. That's right. My wife, and I can share this with you, is 40 years sober. Yeah. And in her journey of sobriety and our marriage, because I met her at one year,

she has been a spiritual seeker. She reads every book. She underlines everything. Our conversations in the house are constantly about authenticity and emotional intelligence. So, and I grimace and blame her and lash out at her because I don't want to hear it. And then I immediately appropriate it on TV as though it was me. That's what my husband says I do. Well, I know that what my wife and I got married right before my 25th birthday.

Wow. And I say that we didn't know better and we grew each other up. Yeah. And so I guess I made a subconscious choice on the show is if anybody was sitting across from me in that bonfire, I don't know what you think your relationship is. You would find yourself with doubt and upset and nobody is immune. Yes. Judgment is not the seat I'm in. Yeah.

Assurance and partnership and advocacy and clarity outside, because often it's easy for us to see what's going on because we're not hooked. Right, right. And what I'm hoping to do, even though it's just a reality show, is just crack the door open for a new point of view or understanding or possibility of learning and growth that hadn't been considered before. Yeah. I don't expect leaps and bounds, but I just want to say, have you considered that maybe what you're angry at isn't him? Maybe it predates him. Well, I mean, that is amazing that you like what a host says that. That's what I mean is that you're calling them to consciousness and that that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Or you will walk her through. And so what did you see there? And then instead of saying this is really about how much you're willing to honor your own boundaries, you will just ask her questions that will get her to say, I guess I need to really think about how much I'm willing to honor my own boundaries. And that is literally what a therapist does. Well, I think it comes from some innate stuff that's me, which I say, you know, I laugh that the kids, they call each other empaths. empaths. Oh, you are definitely an empath. Yes. But I say it's not so lofty or fun. Empath was born out of survival, fear and desperation. Yes. It was me sussing out danger is why I'm an empath. Yes. Acknowledgement on that because that's how I feel. Yes. But I've then chosen to find a way

to empower that. So I'm constantly saying I'm not listening to what you're saying. I'm listening to why you chose those words to say it yeah because usually we're so busy fooling ourselves with a narrative of what we would like things to be that we over it's not that we're it's not even so much that we avoid the truth we overlook the possibility of that truth yeah so it's a silly tv show but no it's transphotainment that's what i call it when i when someone does that that's the only kind of TV I'm interested in making. And, and I really, it would, I would like it to be the only TV I watch, although there's very little of it on, but it's, it's entertainment with secret transformation folded it, you know, and greatest joy in my life. The greatest payoff from this

experience is when I get messages from people saying really made a difference. I watch it with my wife or husband. Cause you're calling them. Yeah. It was never an intention, but the other thing I've learned is that, you know, higher power, God, whatever we like to put a name on that puts you in a, if you're a plant, you get put in a pot for you to grow in. And often the pot doesn't look like what you thought you should be growing in. So I, I thought maybe I had a message or a calling to kind of get into this, you know, really relationship space. I didn't think it would be on a show that looks like porn you know i did i read that you said it's like porn and oprah mixed together it looks like porn it feels like oprah yeah yeah it does i'm grateful

and the lesson for me is that if you can regardless of the forum be this is for me be authentic be compassionate be two ears in one mouth which i fail at that one quite a bit listening deeply, then I'm of service, even if it's more entertainment than transformation. Yeah. Well, amen to you and your wife for helping to train you. And I think you're absolutely right. I just want to, as the kids say, double click on that thing about empathy, because I have found that anyone, well, first of all, an empath has gifts, right? And that's what you're talking about is that you can feel what other people are feeling. You can intuit what's underneath their words. There's a whole universe. Most of us are taking in 40 billion bits of information every

millisecond and only consciously processing 2,000 of them. An empath is processing significantly more of that. A psychic medium is even more than that. Someone who's any kind of intuitive or anyone who has those more metaphysical powers, they're taking in a lot more. And every single one of them I've ever met and any empath I've ever known, and I am one too. And even for the mediums and the psychics have told me the same thing, that most people aren't born that way. We all have the ability, but most of us aren't born that way. And we develop those skills out of survival because either we were in a dangerous household. I remember my friend who's an amazing psychic astrologer, Robert Ojado, saying he would come home to the trailer on his bike

and he would need to know as he started to open the door of the trailer, whether it was safe to go in, was his mother in an alcoholic rage or did he need to get back on his bike and ride away. And so he honed his psychic abilities when he was six or seven years old and continued to develop them. And that's such a great example. So are you, I don't need you to go into all of the details of your traumatic childhood, but it sounds like. I don't know that it was a traumatic childhood, but that's another kind of point I grind on. Yeah. Is that certain traumas are evident. Yeah. But I look back, I have great parents. I had a wonderful life, but what matter was whatever scared child I was perceived the world as dangerous whether or not so trauma is

sometimes self-imposed yes I think yes trauma is as deep as it is to the person experiencing it yeah I can't say that I was traumatized I can say that I was aware of money issues things being less than solid in the house I lived in the deep south I wasn't a burly dude I've become an alpha male but I wasn't always that. And so I'm Jewish in the deep South. So these things that were not such a big deal, actually, if you were to play the tape back, but in my head had me feeling in danger a lot. And so the best way I can describe it is I would walk into a room and sense and feel everybody to see how far can I go before that guy beats me up? And how far can I go before she thinks I'm in love with her and all these things to navigate. The best way to

describe it is somebody else might walk in a room and you hear a couple radio stations of the people around you. To me, I hear every radio station and they're all on the same volume. Yeah. They have trouble turning them down. Yeah. That's what an empath looks like. Yeah. And as I've grown and had some coaching and some therapy and stuff like that, I've been able to kind of harness that in a little bit. Find the parts that, if it's a gift, can empower me and others and use that deeper listening. My intention is to do good and not bad. Well, you are. And it's interesting because I used to train tons and tons of therapists, mostly for my practice because I couldn't see everyone when I was really doing a ton of clinical practice. So I would bring in people who already

had a ton of experience and train them in my methods and make sure they were really well trained in sex therapy, but they had to have really good couples experience, lots of good education, all of that. But there were so many people when I first started doing that, that had all the credentials and all the experience, but then I would watch them or supervise some sessions. I was like, this person just does not, you know, and I realized there's, I could, at first I was like there is something that can't be taught. And I finally realized, oh, duh, it's that intuition that like you have. So I started actually, when I would interview people, I would start kind of trying to sense and I even had this little system for asking them questions to just kind of evaluate

their level of intuition, because that was even as or more important than the clinical knowledge. And so what you're kind of saying is that you have oodles of intuition, even though you don't to have the clinical training and it's the same thing. And I talk a lot about big T and little T trauma, right? There's the big T, which is the obvious stuff, but there are all of these smaller T's and you're right that one sensitive kid being socially rejected or bullied may not, like my youngest son, he was never affected by the bullies, like the kids that would, I mean, he was annoyed, but he'd be like, I'm going to go find the kids. It'll be nice to me. Like he would just let it slough off wouldn't take it on like but my i would i did and my other two did

but he just for whatever reason that was his personality so i think that's it too and i too grew up in a little island off the southeast coast of georgia as the only jewish kid in my school so i understand that yeah very similar we might have a where i'm probably much older than you but that tribe of southern jews is small very small and it's right in the middle of the bible belt So I would read every Sunday about how I killed Jesus and no one in school would talk to me the next day. It was like this whole crazy thing. And then they would try to convert me. And if I didn't convert, I would be ostracized. so I can I've told the story many times but I can remember being in a I played Pop Warner football and finished the game and one of the guys on my team said my dad wants to talk to you and call me on the parking lot he was a coach yeah coach what's up and he basically said look I know

your parents over there but I'm telling you that if if you accept Jesus right now we can do this right here and nobody will know and i've later reconciled these moments as loving in some way yes by the those people who really believe i'm going to hell yeah they were trying to save your soul yeah but there was definite and lasting trauma for me i like that there's so much language that's been invented by this younger generation of people but like the othering of that yes always is the best way to say it and in that otherness was fear and shame and effort to hide that yeah it was much later in life where i said wait a minute i met other people who were jewish and they're proud to be jewish they're wearing a jewish star like that's just insane

to me. Me too. Same thing. And I would say, and I remember I came home because all the social stuff revolved around youth groups and they would invite you at the end of each thing to stand up and accept Jesus as your savior. And I would go to the things because all my friends went and all the boys went and it was really fun, but I never stood up because I wasn't accepting. I believed that Jesus was an amazing sage and prophet, but that's the main difference between Christianity in Judaism, we, you know, Jews believe that Jesus was a sage and a prophet, but not the son of God, whatever, doesn't matter. But this woman who runs it came up to me afterwards and said, listen, listen, Laura, you need to understand that if you are not willing to accept Jesus as your savior,

you may no longer come to youth group celebrations. So I was like, okay, I go home and I say to my mother, I think I'm converting and accepting Jesus as my savior. And she said, oh, how come? I said, because I can't go to the youth groups anymore. And she said, all right, well, you can absolutely do that, but just know that in their eyes, you will always be Jewish. And if the Nazis come again, it doesn't matter what you converted to, you'll still be a Jew. And I thought, oh, okay. That's, you know, and I didn't end up doing it and I'm glad I didn't. And you know what? And I don't know if you found this to be true, but for me, it ended up being one of the greatest gifts of my life because I was so used to being weird and othered and being on the fringes

that I've never been afraid of being weird. Well, everything you say, I feel seen. But there was, like I've said about everything, even all of the things that could have been negative. And this is something Robbie always said, things either happen to you or for you. Yes. I can't believe she's not here right now. I want to meet Robbie.

Oh, don't start. She's like, find out how I can get an appointment with her. I'm in. She doesn't need an appointment. We'll have lunch. I'm loving Robbie because I'm excited for her. You just messed up. No, I'm not.

I mean it. You'd make me a hero if you guys had lunch. And I would go, but I'm so fearful of what we'll do to you while we're together. Because I need help. But what I was going to say is that I'm constantly looking at how was this for me? And I think what happened for me is I developed this empathic sense of protecting myself, but it also, the other identification had me ally with all the other others. Yes, yes. So really, really embraced by the Black community in the South. Really nothing in the way of me enjoying the gay community.

Me too! All of that became places where I felt safer. Yes, where I hung. Those were my people. So then when I got into show business, which was also a fluke, but when I found myself thrown in front of audiences with a mic and no material to try to entertain them, I found that I knew how to speak to every aspect that was in the audience. Oh, that's interesting. Because I had found a way to be great with all of these different cultural divides. Yes. So it gave me, including, you know, white Christian church groups and stuff like that, because I knew that language as well.

So, again, it could have been, oh, look how I was bullied and now I hate everyone. Or look what door opened up for me because of that. And I think that's the key to a lot of stuff. That's the key to everything. Not just going through stuff, but growing through it for sure. And finding those gifts. Yeah, I love that. And that's so funny that because I never meet anyone who had that experience.

So that's pretty cool. I know exactly what you're talking about. But obviously, the show's format puts couples in really tempting situations. And watching it, I'm aware of the clickbait aspect of it. It's television. It's reality. Obviously, they want it to be provocative. But from a therapeutic perspective, if you can get beyond that, I'm just wondering how

you feel that that environment may accelerate, right? I know you talked about it getting real, but those personal revelations, those relationship decisions, and how has it been for you? Because I've seen some shows where like, it's so obvious he's a fricking asshole and has not just had a threesome after he said he was never going to cheat on you again. And now that you finally come together at the end of the show to decide whether you're going to stay together or leave separately, you're forgiving him as if he's not going to do it again. And so I'm wondering like how you think the environment, because I know in many cases it does accelerate that, but also how you handle it when you're like watching them go off into the sunset, knowing that he's totally

going to screw her. Well, specifically this season that happened. Yeah. That's what I'm thinking about. And I wrestle with proactivity from my seat. Yes. So the way I reconcile it, the way I approach it is during our bonfires where obviously there's a consent of conversation and I don't mind getting in and tweaking and playing. When you've made a decision with your partner that I disagree with, I don't feel it's my place to come in and go, hold on a second. But if in the moment you need support and reach out, I would say, what does your heart tell you as opposed to your head? And realize that whatever decision you make today, while it seems final because it's our last episode, that life goes on, relationship goes on.

And if you change your mind and you want to get back together or break up, you can do that next week. You could do it tomorrow. You could do it tonight. So I choose to not be proactive in any choices being made. Okay. It's not my job. I do work to hold their accountability, some accountability for what they say and what they do. So I'll say things like, I hear you, but your words that you're saying don't seem to add up with your actions. How do you reconcile that? Because I'm seeing two different things and I don't understand. But, you know, ultimately, my overarching philosophy is if he had a threesome, he cheated on you, blah, blah, blah, and you take him back and all this stuff, what we've been working on subtly or overtly is the people we're in relationship with, we also created. Yes.

We allowed or acquiesced to or perpetuated an underlying yet unresolved belief we have about ourselves. True. And so I say in simpler terms to them all, until you can define a healthy, non-toxic love relationship, it's going to be hard for you to find a healthy, non-toxic love relationship because we are thrown to repeating behavior. Mm-hmm. So that's what I'm saying is like we can point the finger all day long and I can sit here and and be on your team. You're right. He's an idiot. You're right. What I'd rather talk about is why is this allowed? Why is this OK with you? Yeah.

Yeah. And what is that about? And in ninety nine percent of the cases, cases, they are cases. For instances, I find, and my own whatever training I've had, is that it usually predates the present day situation. Yes, it does. You've got to go back to like five years old and six, seven years old, where you made a decision about who you're going to be. And then you've kept that story alive. And the things that work about your story have made you successful. and in the areas that you thought this about yourself,

you can never do anything other than repeat that. Yeah. Until you see it. Hey, it's Dr. Laura Berman. I've been a sex, love, and relationship therapist for over 30 years. And the main question I always get asked is, how the heck do we spice it up

in a long-term monogamous relationship? Well, if you want to take your love life, your sex life to the next level, whether you're in a relationship or not, check out my free course on quantum sex. It's going to teach you how to take your sexual response to the next level, capable of full body orgasms, how to use sex magic to manifest your dreams, and how to connect on an even deeper level sexually with your partner. Just go to drlauraberman.com and you'll find it right there on the homepage,

the quantum sex free course. Check it out. Let me know what you think. So beautiful and so true because all of our stories of how worthy we are of love, what to expect from love start so early and is what's underneath. I mean, I always say when you're having a love relationship with someone, you're actually having a relationship with yourself through that other person. It all has to do with that. And I read somewhere, I was reading a couple of interviews you've done, and I think you said, I don't remember what number you gave, but I think it's really powerful, especially for the people who are coming on the show, many of them in kind of effed up relationships to start with, that you have found that for most

of the contestants, something like 98% of them don't really even know what love is supposed to be in its healthy form. Like they don't even understand. I'm not sure I know yet. Yeah, I think you do. I think your wife knows. Well, yes, but we strive to get there. Yeah. Well, that's different. We all strive to get there. Yeah, of course. But you have a sense of what, that love, you know, is sometimes painful, but I think I was reading, you were talking about, I don't know, like if I love you, I don't want to hurt you. It's not just about willpower. Something to that effect that I said to the guys is that if you think this is about running the gauntlet of discipline, you can masturbate for 30 days. You know, you can get

through this that's not it when you step out when you're in love and it's a real love you're not tempted right you may be tempted by the flesh and like oh hot and a fantasy because we're all human but the following through is just not even it's not that it's not on the table because you're not allowed it's that you're not interested in that you're full you've eaten yeah you've eaten Yeah. And so I specifically with Brianna Shante on this season, which for your listeners and viewers, I don't know that they know. But with this particular couple that came to the island where she says, I love him and she says, I love he says, I love her. But I have a voracious sexual appetite and I need threesomes and she doesn't want that. And what I noticed is when he acted out emotionally, how compartmentalized it was, there was no remorse.

And rather than judging that, what that said to me from the untrained eye, you may see it differently, was that something had happened to him that has this sex thing not be in an intimacy bucket. Yeah. It's in a, I'd even go farther to say avenging bucket. Yeah. And that's why it doesn't even compute. I love her, but these faceless, nameless, emotionless acts that I'm having here don't even connect. There's no connection to that, which gave me space to forgive the behavior. Yes, me too.

And I said later on a podcast with this man, I said, look, when I asked you about your childhood and you started to share about foster homes and abuse and all this stuff, I want to apologize to you that I didn't ask that question much earlier. We could have done the work. And it gives me some understanding that if I know this much about it, she knows all the story. And so her ability to forgive your behavior that has the audience turn against her. Yeah. I understand. Yeah. You can understand and have compassion and not make excuses.

Like I find so many women and, you know, this is about, I always say one of my favorite lines from the musical Rent is when she says to him, I'm looking for someone whose baggage goes with mine. Yes. I say that's a different version of the same thing. I say, we're all crazy. You gotta find the crazy you dig. Yeah, right? We're all looking for people and we're all attracted to people

with complimentary wounds, right? So here you have this couple where she obviously has issues with abandonment and trust from her own childhood and is trying to work that through. And clinicians call it repetition compulsion where we keep being attracted to the same thing again and again, even though we don't want it.

And he has all of this trauma of his own. And what I see happen with a woman like that, who has all these abandonment wounds and is like, I just need to prove to myself that I'm lovable enough. And if I can fix him, then I'm fixing me, right? And so we choose these fixer uppers and we make all these excuses for them.

Well, it's okay that he treats me like shit because his father treated him like shit. It's okay that he cheats on me because his father cheated on his mother and beat him and he was sexually abused. So of course he's a sex addict, but he's not getting treatment. He's not doing anything about it.

He's just giving me the reason. So I think there is a place for compassion. By the way, what you're speaking to is the difference between actual trained therapists, you and me, because the softy in me and the needed to be loved in me lets people off the hook.

Yeah, you can't let well, I mean, you're allowed to your that's not your job. I think you're I think what you're you don't need to hold the bring me on there. I'll hold them accountable and kick their ass a little bit. But you need to be the story after the story. All right. Yeah. And get confronted. That would be fun. But you've spoken. I feel like I've read or seen you somewhere talking about and it's obvious your deep emotional investment in them. So how do you manage that? Like even when I've, not when I've trained myself and gotten trained long ago when I'm doing therapy, like it stays in the room and then I do not take that with me. But I have noticed when I've hosted television shows where I'm doing therapy with people or helping couples with stuff and we're working really intensively together and I'm assuming you're on set on location together and you're, it's really hard for me to turn that off. I get really invested. And I've been trained not to get invested. I can only imagine with as sweet

and empathetic as you are that it takes an emotional toll, does it? So, yes. A couple things. I have in my contract that I won't go without Robbie being there. First, it was good it was in Hawaii. And how am I going to keep a marriage together if I'm going to Hawaii for a month and i don't get to bring her yeah that was initially was like don't be a schmuck you know get her a free vacation but it's grown into something bigger than that because i'm i'm really good at being charming yeah so i can do things and people go that was great and i need some barometer to say this was great but that wasn't yeah she's that for me so the best way i can describe that is when we do a bonfire and it's four on one and then there's a break and then four

more on one. It's not even one on one. So it's overwhelming for me. The best way I describe it is I'm in it. I don't remember what we're talking about as soon as it's over. I don't know what I said. I know how it felt. And then it takes some time to process. And I'm unlike others in my business. I'm not the guy who's on camera when it's over, wants to go to the wrap party and have people go give me attention like i'm like baseball cap and gone yeah not for me i don't need the attention it's uncomfortable so i get really invested we get done at 11 at night or later robbie usually spends some time with me afterwards says this was great that was not this then she goes to the hotel she's out i go to the grip lounge and have a beer with the boys

just try to wind down a second yeah talk about the show then I go back to the room and then it's two in the morning and I'm like did I say this what did I say did I misguide all those things I'm carrying the weight of all that and then luckily in the schedule the next day is usually a day off for me oh good so you can play golf or we'll go to the beach and I'll do nothing work related. And if I start having the anxious feelings or the codependent feelings, I share them with Robbie and Robbie's like, you're good. So that helps me, but it's a challenge. And I even find myself saying to the cast, look, I'm probably more committed to your relationship than you are. If you can't carry the weight, I'm going to carry it with you. And then when the

show's over i kind of follow up a lot do you i was gonna ask you do you or that i should i taped an episode of my podcast this morning and i had on one of the cast members from season one not season one back in 2001 but season one on usa network in 2018 yeah and her story was traumatic but i kept an eye on her for these eight years since then right there were seven years since then so I had her on the show to talk about her journey emotionally and all that but I keep a distance but I let them know I'm here because I don't want them to think what we did and what I did with them wasn't sincere yeah or do I think it's a fix and now we're on to the next one I know that they are getting help I want to know every now and then I'll this is ridiculous

but every now and then somebody will do some ambiguous post of looking like maybe they're not okay. You good? You good? Do you need anything? So it's a challenge for me. Yeah. I can see that. That's so sweet. I don't get a lot of time with that. Yeah. So it's not as intensive as your work would be. So it's when you see the bonfire, now the bonfires are hours instead of minutes. That's the brunt of my relationship because when I show up to their villas, the whole dynamic changes they're on it's scary so i stay out of that with the exception of like on this season i showed up because there was a moment and i the perfect example we had a conversation in the bonfire that touched me deeper than i could resolve so a couple days later there was some

business that needed to happen i said can i also do this when i come in and i pulled her aside said look yet you've been on my mind when you said no one can love me and everyone leaves me and I would leave me too, I need to let you know that you get to not have that narrative anymore. See, that's what I mean. Who does that? What host does that? That is so special. Well, to answer the who, what host does that in deference, the other shows don't ask that. So this show has presented an opportunity where I'm actually part of the content. It was never the intention but other shows that's not the host role they come in and say what's next where they're going next but it's not i disagree i i mean no shade intended to any other host i'm not

diminishing them by celebrating you okay thank you i'm sorry don't deflect accept the praise because even if we have like i don't know the jesse on the bachelor now right or chris evans I'm so bad with names. It's Jesse now. Yeah, but it was Chris. They wouldn't get into it. They would talk about, you know, how are you feeling and what's really going on? I can see you're nervous.

But it's not the same thing. It's like you can tell there, at least I can tell, there's someone in the ear saying, ask these questions and lead them to this point. You, as you said, are like in the moment with them. Here's something I'm grateful for. So I don't think that I keep saying it wasn't anyone's intention. So when they rebooted the show, after it had been off the air since 2001, it came back in 2018, hired me back. Everybody working on the set now had been in reality TV for 10, 12 years. I had no idea who I was.

And there was a way that people did stuff. Host Earpiece Now, their prompter, you know, whatever. And staying in a lane that they're supposed to stay in. Also quite aloof to the rest of the crew. And I came in kind of like a relic, you know, out of deep freeze. And I just did what I knew how to do on that first bonfire. My intention was, let's have a real conversation. You'll cut me out of the show, but then they will give you something authentic that's good TV.

And I walked off the first bonfire and Robbie's like, oh, that was awesome. And people were coming up to me, like staring at me weird going, what was that? and I said and they said and how do you know my name the PX I'm like because we had lunch together yesterday and we work here it's like Elle Woods like I go here now yeah yeah so it was foreign to the it was foreign to the genre yeah because it had developed into something else yes I have an earpiece if I'm missing a beat they may say ask this yes but where I'm grateful is that it's grown into a thing where they've said, give us more of that when I was reluctant to do it. And the producers aren't going to let me go to a place that's bad, but have some trust

in me. Amen. They should let you do more and more of that because- They let me go. They literally say, do your thing. But I want to give them credit because if I were to wander off the beaten path, I'm not alone. Yeah. But I would say 90% of what you hear is just what happened. It's just in the moment. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm really, really grateful for that. You don't get that in our business ever. No. I did Antiques Roadshow for 18 years and every word I said that was scripted, right? Yeah. And that's okay because there's a way to work in that and still be authentic. But yeah, I'm really, really grateful. It's been an experience I never expected.

Yeah. It's a flower growing in a pot I never thought would, you know, that's what life does. Right. And as long as you surrender to it, you could have been like, oh, no, you know, but you you have made it into something really beautiful that I honestly don't think would happen or could happen without you. and I think what you were saying about Robbie and I think that's so beautiful that she is there kind of not only supporting you but holding you accountable I remember one of the producers that I worked with really really closely I was a correspondent on the Today Show for years and she was like my producer and we became really close friends and she came to watch me a couple of years later I don't know how many years later she happened to be in town and came on set when I was filming a television series and then we went to lunch afterwards and

she said I feel like everyone in front of the camera needs to have somebody there in their corner who does not blow smoke up their ass and who is going to tell them the truth and who is going to hold their feet to the fire and tell them when they need to shift something and so obviously she had been in, you know, and I made her tell me she'd been in the control room and probably watching them notice some things that they weren't telling me or whatever, you know, the way they manage. I hate being managed. I get so pissed when people manage me, but they do, they insist upon it. And I said to her, you know, I don't have that in the production crew, but my husband does not blow smoke up my ass. Like he will hold my feet to the fire and call me to consciousness when I

need to be. And I think that's what you're saying, Robbie, your wife does too, which I think is- Whether I want her to or not. Right, right. It's like, frankly, living in the bliss of not knowing the truth and everybody thinks you're great, I can ride that wave a little bit. Yeah, that's much nicer. I know I feel the same way. But I also say, isn't that what relationships, when they are good, are for? Isn't the goal to have a partner to get through this thing with yeah isn't the point of partnership

somebody holding your feet to the fire tough love when you need it soft love when you need it yeah goodness of patience and all the things that she displays on a daily basis and i do occasionally i think you do have more than you know then you'll give yourself credit she says it great she says you know, when do I get TVs, Mark Wahlberg? Yeah. Because the one on the couch, I have no interest in. That's so funny. TVs, Mark Wahlberg is so sweet. And charming. Yeah. My husband will sometimes look at me, he says, would you ever say that or tell one of your clients to say that to their partner? Is that really like, he's like, if people can see the, what you're saying right now, or the way you're acting, they would be more inspired. But isn't that amazing to grow into

a relationship where like Robbie and I, we can go off, but it's not going to crush the relationship. Yes. We could say things that are insensitive, sometimes even cruel or mean in a fit. There's space. Yes, there's great. For it to go back up. I just posted a video about that, I think yesterday, because I was working with a couple.

I do these language of love sessions where I work with couples and there is a couple that was really struggling with conflict because they felt they had such insecure attachment with each other that they felt like it was relationship risking whenever they were displeased with each other. So the other one would get all defensive and not let it not be open. And they just try to gaslight or not let it in. And that would escalate things. And I was saying, like, you can absolutely love and be devoted to someone and be pissed off as hell at them at the same time. That is normal. That's what love is. Like love is not, yeah, it's not not being pissed at each other or annoyed with each

other or grossed out with each other's behavior sometimes or a million other things. It's having that underpinning of safety and commitment. And I see you. I may not like what you're doing right now. I may not like how you're behaving. I may be reacting to it, but I know who you are. I think that's something really beautiful. It's gotten me through what would have been crippling things in my life left to my own design.

Yeah. If I was left to the conversation between my ears, got somebody saying, hey, cut it out, I don't know that I'd be here right now. Aw. And kudos to you for listening because it's not just having an amazing partner. It's being open to learning from that partner and being open to letting it integrate, right? because i think the speed at which i'm open could be improved i get most open when i'm desperate yeah i forget all that when i'm feeling strong but nonetheless thanks for the acknowledgement you listen at some point you do so what's the legacy you want to leave not only through the

show but your interaction with participants the cast well there's a big picture and a little picture as far as the show goes i have an intention i really i use that word a lot i think there's what we say we want a lot and what we wish would be but intention comes from somewhere else yeah and so my intention has always been that you leave the island in a better place with better understanding than when you came and so one of the reasons i like to keep tabs on people is i found there's an incredible amount of people who've been on the show whose next relationship becomes a forever relationship interesting some growing up happens yes that that's a legacy i'd like to think i have even an indirect part in the bigger picture i'm grappling with and the bigger picture

is struggling with acknowledging that I have some ability that I don't understand and some calling that I didn't ask for. You do. And fear about actualizing it at the bigger level. Oh, that's juicy. So maybe I need to book an appointment with you. Yeah.

But, you know, it's one thing to fear failure. It's another thing to be trepidatious about the weight and sheer power of what that success would look like. What I'm working on is some language of acknowledgement, self-acknowledgement and love where I am often great for you and not so great for me and maybe leaning into, I don't even know how this shows up, but a bigger version of what happens when it's good on the show. Some bigger version that affects more people on maybe a global level to get us through this thing. I feel a spinoff coming. From your mouth to God's ears. And I think it's so beautiful what you're saying because it's so much harder and can be so easy to play it small, right? And it can be really, really scary to step into your genius, especially when the pot following your analogy is not one you ever imagined, not just with Temptation Island, but with what comes next.

something. But I will say this, and I said this to you in the beginning, that you really do have a gift. And I have worked with thousands of therapists and therapists in training, therapists of years. I've worked with them clinically. I've watched them. You really and truly, and that's why I wanted to interview you. That's why I reached out. And I have no interest in blowing smoke up your ass, you really have a gift. You really do. And what you're going to do with that, I think you definitely, I think it would be a travesty and against your soul's purpose if you didn't explore where that can go and what you can do with it. Because those gifts shouldn't be squandered. I am squirming with uncomfortable because of the esteem I hold you in the regard with which I hold you.

It's not correct English, but. And grappling with accepting the compliment or the acknowledgement and going, thank you, rather than going. Yeah, I feel crazy. Yeah. So I really appreciate that. It's I'm moved and I'm going to have a moment once this is over. But I appreciate it. And I'll just keep putting one foot in front of the other and see where things unfold. But I'm really grateful to have had this conversation. I can't believe how easy it was to have this conversation about your gift, I think. Thank you. It was really beautiful to talk to you. You're such a beautiful soul, have such a beautiful heart. And like I said, so much talent. And obviously, your partner is quite a talent in and of herself. So I look forward to connecting with her at some point.

Oh, my God. Please, please let that happen in some degree, either a soup or a coffee or something. I will be a hero and you will see that she's a full contact person. So good luck with that. Oh, I will love it. I love the full contact ones. Those are my favorite. This has been wonderful. Thank you for having me. I'm really very honored. Thank you, Mark. The doctor said I'm crazy for your love. Wrote me a prescription, but there's no cure for crying.