Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Why Feeling Lost Might Mean You’re Becoming with Krista Williams and Lindsey Simcik

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

What if the confusion you’re feeling right now isn’t a sign that you’re lost… but a sign that you’re evolving? What if the “in-between” isn’t something to escape, but something you’re meant to move through? In this episode of The Language of Love Conversations, I sit down with Krista Williams and Lindsey Simcik, the powerhouse duo behind the top-rated Almost 30 podcast and co-authors of Almost 30: The Life You Want Is Coming. Together, they’ve built a global community helping women navigate growth, healing, and the messy, beautiful transition into deeper self-awareness. In our conversation, we explore what it really means to go through a period of transformation… the kind where your old identity no longer fits, but your new one hasn’t fully formed yet. Krista and Lindsey share how their own journey began in their late twenties, feeling lost, disconnected, and unsure of their path, and how that uncertainty ultimately became the foundation for everything they’ve built today. What I love most about this conversation is that it doesn’t try to “fix” the discomfort of being in transition. Instead, it reframes it. This isn’t a breakdown… it’s a becoming. We talk about the Saturn return, the “dark night of the soul,” and the pressure so many people feel to have their lives figured out by a certain age. Krista and Lindsey challenge that narrative and offer a more compassionate, grounded perspective on growth, one that allows for uncertainty, emotional depth, and trust in the unseen. We also dive into the realities of spiritual growth, including the trap of spiritual bypassing, and why true healing requires being with your emotions rather than avoiding them. They share powerful insights on learning to trust your body, developing discernment, and building a relationship with yourself that feels safe, honest, and grounded. If you’ve ever felt like you’re behind, stuck, or questioning everything about your life, this conversation will remind you that you’re not off track… you’re right where you’re meant to be. We dive into: Why your late twenties (and beyond) can feel like everything is falling apart… and why that’s actually a good thing The truth about Saturn return and how it initiates deep personal transformation What the “pause” or “in-between” season really means and how to navigate it How to build trust in yourself and in something greater than you The difference between spiritual growth and spiritual bypassing Why feeling your emotions is essential to healing (and why avoiding them keeps you stuck) How to use your body as a guide for decision-making and discernment The role of friendship and safe relationships in healing old wounds Understanding codependency and how to reclaim your sense of self Why you’re not behind in life… and how to release the pressure to have it all figured out Remember, the life you want may not come from having all the answers. It may come from learning to trust yourself in the questions. To learn more, check out Krista and Lindsey’s book Almost 30: The Life You Want Is Coming and explore their work through the Almost 30 website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm sex, love, and relationship therapist, Dr. Laura Berman. And for the past 30 years, I've been helping people just like you learn to love and be loved better. Here on the Language of Love Conversations, I'm talking to some of the world's most influential and revolutionary experts, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, and celebrities about love, sex, and relationships from a mind, body, and spirit perspective. And that way, my goal is to awaken your mind, body, and soul. It's time to become fluent in the language of love.

This episode of The Language of Love, I'm so excited to welcome Krista Williams and Lindsay Simsek. They are authors, speakers, and the powerhouse duo behind the top-rated Almost 30 podcast. They've built a global community of women navigating growth, healing, and personal evolution. Their new book, Almost 30, The Life You Want, is coming. It distills years of conversations, research, and lived experience into a really compassionate and insightful guide for anyone moving through the transition from early adulthood into deeper self-awareness.

So many, myself included, but so many of my friends have kids in their early to mid-20s who are going through such hardships right now around self-identity, what their purpose is, what they're meant to be doing in the world, how to move from sort of childhood into adulthood can be so confusing. And they speak so beautifully and eloquently with so much guidance, including even exploring Saturn return, identity, relationships, boundaries, finding your purpose and the inner work that's required to really step into the truest version of yourself to find peace, joy and alignment. And I do think this book is not just for people in their 20s or parents of their people in their 20s. It's really for anyone. And this conversation is certainly for anyone

who's in a season in their life of any kind of transformation. We're going to explore the truths, the tools, the stories that makes this work so impactful. I'm really excited to share them with you on this episode of The Language of Love. Krista and Lindsay, thank you guys so much. I'm so excited to have you on The Language of Love. We're so thrilled. This is a long time coming and we really, really appreciate you having us on and we're so excited to connect with your audience. Me too. I'm so excited to share you with them. I mean, obviously most people know about your podcast, but the book, and I was telling you before we started recording, Almost 30, The Life You Want Is Coming, you know, is not only relevant if you're almost 30, but I feel like when I was

reading it, it's really relevant no matter what your age. You know, so many of us are in what I like to call the pause, right? It's that time between, and it happens, I feel many times in your life for all sorts of reasons. So I was just talking to a girlfriend about this the other day, who's in her fifties and this idea of the pause, the void. You're no longer who you were. You definitely want and feel the becoming of something else, but you don't know what that looks like and what that feels like and even how to put that into action. And so I feel like this book is not only relevant to that, but also to people who have, a lot of our listeners are also older in their forties, fifties, sixties, and they have children who are almost 30 and who are struggling. My

eldest is 29 and is finally kind of coming into his own. So I've recommended your book to so many parents and I'm excited to talk to you from that perspective too. So we have lots to get to. I'm putting a pin in all of those, because I want to start at the beginning, because I think that's a really important part of the story of the stepping into, because you guys met, I guess, in your 20s and you met at SoulCycle. Like you never set out to be spiritual teachers, leaders, empowerment, communicators, podcasters, extraordinaire. So how did this all come about? Yeah. Lindsay and I, when we met, we had no thought that podcasting could be a job. We had no thought that we could get paid to be ourselves. We really just met ourselves or met each other at

a time in our lives when we were really lost and hitting rock bottom. We were in our late 20s and we were living in Los Angeles, but we had big dreams for our life, but we didn't really know how it would happen or how it would manifest. And Lindsay was going through her own relationship issues. I was going through some body struggles and it felt like we should have been somewhere that we weren't. There was some timeline that we weren't on. You know, we weren't married. We didn't have kids. We didn't have like a house. We didn't have all the things that our parents told us we should have by the time we were 30. And so we felt really confused. We felt like we were missing something and we felt like there had to be more to life. So when we met,

we just had this instant connection. We met at SoulCycle. Lindsay was an instructor and I was auditioning. I had found SoulCycle when I lived in New York city and just became obsessed with it. I was like in the front row every week, just like, Oh, you're in the front row. Yeah. I wouldn't go to class if I wasn't in the front row. I was like, I was insane. I would go twice a day. Sometimes I knew all the instructors. Like I was really trying to get my way in to become an instructor. I was so desperate to like find a life that was outside of the corporate world that I had been in. And so I auditioned twice and I didn't get it twice, but in my second audition, I got connected with Lindsay because she was an instructor. And so I said, I'd love to connect with an instructor

that could help me with my process. And she did, although didn't help me enough, but it really connected us and we became friends. And so Almost 30 really was born at that rock bottom moment, really was born out of our intention and curiosity to become the people we came here to be and really figure life out and mostly to feel less alone, which is a lot of what we try to do, because I think in the growth in spiritual process, you can feel so alone on your journey. Like you're the only one in your family or in your town or in your area that's really choosing a different path. And that's definitely how we felt during that time. Yeah. And I think it's extra interesting. I mean, now, because now it's been what, 10 years? How long have you guys, about 10 years? So, you know,

10 years ago, it was not, now it feels like it's more common, especially with the help of social media, you know, that 20 somethings are like, whoa, I think there might be more to life than what's happening right now. I am, you know, spiritually curious, right? But back 10 years ago, I think it was even more isolating because I mean, most people didn't start awakening or having that kind of curiosity till they were in midlife, right? And so I think that's a really intriguing part of your story for me, not two parts, one about your friendship, just because, you know, it feels divinely guided that you guys came together and it's not easy. I mean, yes, you were in LA, so sure. You can find more woo woo people in LA. That's one of the things I love

about it. But the fact that you found each other and you were in a similar place, like lots of people, but that you were both really interested in going deeper and in looking behind the curtain and exploring that at such a young age when it was really kind of unusual to do that. Yeah. And it's so interesting, I think, just to speak on the friendship piece, both Krista and I had our own unique and also very challenging experiences with female friendships in the past. And so to sit down with Krista, you know, the first few times and just feel at home and feel comfortable to go deep right away was very new for me. And so in sharing our stories with one another and just really feeling like, wow, okay, she doesn't have it figured out

either. I don't. And this is something that we don't need to carry around ourselves really changed my experience. You know, I had been shouldering, you know, my life up until this point in terms of, well, I need to make it happen. You know, I'm the one that needs to make it happen, which there is some truth to that. But to your point about kind of this spiritual lens that a lot of people are picking up and looking through. There's also just, you know, a beautiful orchestration that is happening for you that your human action and will to meet it is going to create this really cool, energizing experience that in our experience has manifested so much of what we dreamed. And so both the friendship and just kind of looking at our lives in a more

spiritual sense just helped me to become a bit lighter in this life. You know, I felt very heavy before that, like, how the fuck am I going to make this happen myself? You know, I call that sort of the fixed managing control mode versus the quantum love mode. Right. And that's, I think what you're referring to and you speak, but you know, the book is kind of beginning with this idea. And I think part of one of, to me, one of the purposes or messages in the book is this idea of dismantling that belief in our whole society that now you're done with college or whatever you did and your twenties should be decided, neat, tidy, you know, you're meant to be in a time where everything is fixed and it's the opposite of that. So you're speaking to that, but also to this idea that,

which is such a lighter, and it took me to my forties to figure this out, you know, that you can be guided, that we are being guided. And if you soften and surrender, you obviously have direction, you take action. It's not that we don't work hard, but when you can open up to letting higher power, universe, quantum field, whatever you want to call it, allow in that divine orchestration, then it's such an easier, it's such a load off, right? And that's what I feel like you're speaking to, Lindsay, is how heavy that sense of like, I got to figure it out. Yes, exactly. And for a lot of people, you know,

it can be hard to have that trust. And I think one of the tactical ways that I always like suggest for people, if they want to trust more, they want to feel like they're divinely guided, is just have a note on their notes app and just write down all of the times in their life where they have felt like they're guided

or they have felt like there was some divine orchestration or something. Maybe they met someone. Maybe they saw the person that would become their boss at the coffee shop. You know, maybe they had a situation like Lindsay and I where I was auditioning, what got introduced to her that got introduced to her. It's like the butterfly effect thing,

but it can be helpful just to have like that reminder for yourself. Because I think in our day-to-day, we forget how guided and protected we are. But when we have a space where we can remember, it's really, really helpful to then have that reticular activating system activated so that we can find more of those opportunities in our life. I wish I was better at that. Every time I start like a new practice, which I'm always starting new one. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to make sure I have a note open in my phone. And every time I see the impact of that new thing, because that's what I like to do for that reason, because I really feel like it's reinforcing these behaviors that support us. And then I just, you know, I'm not good at the

system. There's seasons for life. I think that was one thing over doing a podcast for 10 years in the spirituality and wellness space. You know, we've seen every trend come and go. we've talked about every trend at length and at nauseam and we've done a lot of them we've experimented with so much and I think the one thing Lindsay and I have come to terms with just after so much education in the wellness and spirituality space is that what's simple is better and what actually sticks is the thing that we should focus on and so for she and I right now it's like walking prayer like you know meditation like eating really well spending time with people that we love like it actually gets very simple and so I think it's powerful to even just honor

like this one doesn't work for me. This ritual doesn't, isn't my thing. I'm just going to let it go because I think people try to make their entire life a to-do list and they're not actually living in it and they're not actually like experiencing life, but they're just kind of judging themselves against all the things they should be doing. And it's so much more helpful to just let go of the things that don't serve you. Yeah. And one of the things that I think we can so easily do, and this is kind of a pet peeve of mine in the personal empowerment industry, which is a with so many people who have the secret and have the divine feminine goddess Coney's ceremony.

Codes, they got the codes. Codes, right. The codes you need to activate your God DNA and all of these things. You know, there is obviously elements of truth and all of that. I wanted to ask you, cause you guys like me interview a lot of people.

You have great discernment in that regard. you know both how you recommend people navigate all this but also speak to this idea and this is where my pet peeve that annoys me like all the charlatans out there but whatever but also this whole idea of spiritual bypassing there's this whole community there are huge you know 500 person week long i won't mention their names but you know who i'm talking about The whole thing is one giant spiritual bypass where basically they're creating this story in people that all you have to do is this one more ayahuasca journey and then an MDMA journey. And then you got to, you know, do this. And none of it is about just being with the pain or being with what wants to happen or sitting with yourself or going in.

it's all like, let me just do these things so that I don't have to feel the pain disguised as a spiritual journey. Yeah, this is such an important topic to talk about, especially now that I feel like we're just inundated with things to do, you know, retreats to go on, people to follow, practices, all the things. I think for me on my journey, it's been just really important to have a relationship with that feeling in my body and it shows up for me in my body. Some people, it shows up in different ways. When I am either in the presence of someone

or maybe I'm doing a practice or maybe I'm at a retreat or doing ayahuasca and being able to tune out from the external validation of what I'm doing. You know, maybe it looks cool on social media. maybe it's exciting and exhilarating to meet someone in person who has a big following and all these things but to really take a moment more than a moment to tune in and understand if what I'm hearing receiving experiencing feels true to me to me yeah it doesn't feel like it's something

I'm just doing to do because everyone's doing it or the long list of kind of egoic desires in that sense. But really, does this feel like something on a heart, on a soul level that feels deeply profound or really just peaceful in my system? And by peaceful, I don't mean like it's easy. I just mean that like there's harmony with this process or this practice or this person. and at the same time, I'm still able to moment by moment discern what is for me and what is not. So I can say, I love how you teach Laura. I love, you know, your books. I love your podcast. And there might be something that you say that I'm like, actually, that's not true for me. Yeah. And that's okay. The baby is thrown out with the bathwater.

Exactly. I don't agree with this one thing. So forget that person. So it's a very nuanced thing. And again, that's like a moment by moment checking in with myself and my body. Like, does that feel true to me? And to me, I feel it in my body. So I might feel it in their heart, might just have a different experience. I have my way. I do the same thing. I'm a body person and I just, I call it the full body yes or no. Sometimes if it's a full body, yes, it's all over my body. But in the way you're describing, I run it through my heart center. If it's a constriction, it's a no. If it's an expansion, it's a yes. It's subtle, but it's gotten so obvious. Yes. I'm just curious how you do it. Very similarly. It does feel like a

constriction or an expansion. And like you said, it's very subtle. So sometimes my mind will step in and say, yeah, but, you know, and give an excuse for why I shouldn't follow my heart. And so I noticed that. I've gotten good at like, oh, okay. That's like a part of me that feels like this person is more psychic than me. So I should just listen to what they say, right? Like that comparisonitis, comparisonism. So it's literally moment by moment, which sounds tedious. However, with practice, I've found it's just automatic now. Yeah. Instantaneous. Yes, exactly.

I started that maybe five years ago, really tuning into this. And it was so fascinating to me because I just made a decision out of survival. I think I maybe shared this when I was on your show, where I was like, okay, I'm only going to say yes to what my body says yes to, period. Even if I want to say no. And if my body says no and I want to say yes, I'm going to say no.

And I remember I was invited to go to this really cool party on a yacht with all these thought leaders and famous people who I would have loved to meet. And every part of my brain and my ego wanted to go. And my body was like, hell to the no. And I tried so hard to convince my, it was like, no, it was such constriction and shutting down. And I listened and I still, you know, I'm sure it was the right decision, but I had

like, I literally now I told the organizer, like, I'm really sorry. I only do what my body says and I would love to come, but my body is saying no. Yeah. Networking on a yacht is not for me. I get seasick. I'm good on all that. in a place where I'm trapped. Yeah. That's how my husband is. He won't get on any place, any of those river cruises or trips or anything. What about you, Krista? What do you use to

incite? Like what's your way of discerning and also of not, I know you don't bypass, but what advice do you have for people so that they don't? Cause I don't think people recognize when they are maybe using all these tools and techniques and awarenesses to avoid versus to evolve. Yeah. I mean, you know, people are kind of using these things sometimes as like a trauma response, you know, to continue to avoid, to continue to not feel, to continue to not feel shame, guilt, all of the things. I think for me, this is where parts work has been so helpful. So internal family systems, and it doesn't need to be a part of parts work, but it's like me having access to self and having an anchored place of truth. And that anchored place of truth took me

a long time to get to. I'm so deeply grateful for my relationship with myself and people can cultivate it over time. It's really having that like central source of oneness, central source of knowing. So I can have a feeling or emotion come up and I could be in relationship to it and be like, okay, I'm noticing this feeling. Do I want to cry right now? What's coming up for me there. And then I can be in conversation. So bypassing happens when we essentially have these parts that want to feel, you know, they want to have an experience of experiencing shame or feeling sad or feeling grief. And we have another part that says, no, that's not okay. That's not acceptable. We're not going to do that. We're going to do affirmations. We're

going to do manifestation. We're going to do courses. We're going to do crystals. We're going to do tarot, all of these things. And basically these two parts are just running the show and they're just ping ponging back and forth. And you're never really going to get anywhere in your life. And it actually makes you feel a little crazy because you don't have access to the central truth. And the central truth is that, sure, affirmations can work from the right place. And sure, it's okay to take space to feel. But I think the biggest issue is people's aversion to feeling and people's aversion to sitting with themselves. And we can see that happening with social media, with food, with addictions on the rise. There's just so many ways in which people

cannot be with themselves. And I think when I finally learned, you know, years in therapy had to prepare me, of course, like being with someone and co-regulating with someone that could hold me in my truth. And then finally, when I did the darkness retreat, which was spending like five days in a cave by myself, it really gave me like the access of understanding of what it means to really feel my feelings to the fullest. And I think just a last thing to say on that, for someone that hasn't felt their feelings in their life, it can be really scary. You can either be really numb where you have no, you're like, I don't feel anything, which is basically because you've told yourself to not feel for so long. It's hard to kind of get it going. Or you could have the

fear of like, you're never going to stop feeling. And that was my fear. I was like, I'm never going to stop crying. I cried for a little bit and now I have a great handle on it. And now it's just such a rhythm and a flow that I think we all have, which is really beautiful. And I think that's my intention. And my hope is that people have a rhythm and flow with their life where they're just true to the moment and what's coming up for them then. Yeah. I love that. I have a book coming out in October of 2026 called crying out loud about my grief journey, but about grief healing in general. And that is such a huge part of it because that was something I recognized really quickly is not only was I scared and Lord knows I'm comfortable with motions. I was scared to let

myself feel all that wanted to be felt around my loss. And then as I did that, I was also realizing that I'm actually, you know, I think more okay with it than, and I'm not great than the majority of people. And as I spoke to more and more people about this, that's what they would say is either, I don't know what I feel, AKA numb, or even more common. If I was just talking to a girlfriend yesterday, who's 60. Okay. And she's just starting to heal her trauma, deep old trauma. And she called me up experiencing all of this grief that was coming up in her little girl, right? That part that you're referring to, Krista, in this case, this little girl who was so rejected and abandoned and felt so unloved. And she's like in so much pain. And she says to me, what do I do? What do

I do to stop feeling? And I was like, you don't do anything, but feel, you know, I'll sit with you right now next to you. I'll go, you know, I didn't say this in these words, but I was basically Like I'll co-regulate with you. I'll sit with you. I'll hold space for you to do this. You know, we're going to bring that little girl in. But like what you do is feel it. And her fear, like mine, like many, was I think more the second that you were mentioning,

is that if I open this Pandora's box, there will be no bottom to this ocean. And I will go insane and get lost. And what I always say to people is there within 10 to 15 minutes, if you let yourself fully feel it, not only is there a bottom, you reach a sandbar. It's like taking a huge emotional dump, like a poop that you've been really constipated. You know, after you finally take that poop, it hurts coming out, but you feel so good after.

Like you have a release. And then the endorphins come in, your frequency rises. It's like immediate reinforcement of like, oh, I didn't get lost. The sky didn't fall on my head. I think we aren't taught to be with ourselves. And that's one of the things I love that you're teaching in this book

and that you teach it, I think in everything you do is, you know, the importance of that piece of it. Yeah. I mean, if we think about it too, just lovingly, a lot of us, you know, we didn't have parents or they didn't have parents that were like, this is how it's okay to feel what you're feeling. Like Lindsay's son is so lucky to have a mother. That's like, it's okay to feel you, you can have the range of emotions, but for so many of us, don't cry, don't yell, don't scream, be quiet. That's not what you're feeling. You shouldn't do that. Like our reality was sort of sculpted in a way where we couldn't really access or understand our feelings because they were denied or ignored or all of these things. So we really are probably for the first time,

a lot of us when we're older in age, making sense of what it means to have a relationship with our internal world. And how does that emote or be expressed in the external world? Because we've had such disconnection. And so I just think it's incredible that your friend is doing that at that age. I found actually a lot of my friend's parents, and I would say even my parents have done their own little bits of work are doing so much work. And it is such a brave thing to do. Like when you first have that moment where you're like, oh my God, I'm terrified now that I've done this thing. And I don't know if I'm going back and I'm scared because I can't go back, but I have to go forward. I don't know where I'm going. Like hero's journey vibes. It is so powerful.

Oh, it's so powerful. And this is a great segue into the idea that I know you speak about beautifully in the book about the dark night of the soul and the Saturn return that typically, you know, for the under thirties is happening around 27. That happens again at 54. I remember that. That happened a few years ago. So I'm wondering if you can speak to that a little bit. Yeah. When we found out about our Saturn return, we actually found out about it, I think, in the middle of ours or towards the end. And both of us, I remember we were in a podcast interview talking to an astrologer and we're like, oh my gosh, just bringing so much understanding to what we were moving through and purpose really to what we were moving through. And it was a relief,

honestly. So your Saturn return for anyone that doesn't know is an astrological event that happens every, it's actually closer to like 29 years ish, but depending on your chart, check it out, you can go to our website. We have a calculator. Saturn comes back to the place it was in the sky when you were born. And this is significant because Saturn is this planet that's kind of like your cosmic dad. And he walks into the room and he's like, I love you so much. You've been doing pretty good. However, there are aspects and lanes of your life that I just want you to look at because they're not aligned and they're not going to be ones that you are going to continue to follow or move forward with, whether it's relationships, career, et cetera.

And you have to get really honest and it's going to be challenging because there's going to be a lot of change. But I promise you that on the other side, you will meet yourself. You know, you will meet that capital S self, be in connection with your soul and life will really, truly, I think, begin on a whole other level. And so it depends, but it lasts a couple years, probably around two and a half years. And this could be marked by a big move across the country, a divorce, a death, starting a new job, having a baby. Usually there's one or maybe two big life events that kind of have this like trickle down effect into other areas of your life and really just make you think like, what the heck is going on and it feels like everything's falling apart as I'm sure we've all kind of heard and it's cheesy to say but it's absolutely true it really is coming together in a new more true way and so when we found this out we were relieved because it was just kind of confirmation to what we were

going through and then when we did more research we also found out and I know you know this Laura but you know around this time as well just before this your prefrontal cortex comes online so that part of your brain that's responsible for decision-making and long-term planning and emotional regulation finally comes online. And so that emotional part of your brain and this part of your brain kind of lock in and you start to wake up and ask questions about your life. Do I actually believe that? Should I be with this person? Is this where I'm meant to be? And so it's a time that feels very existential and crazy, but it's really beautiful. You know, we start to ask these really important questions and start to live these questions and find out

that, you know, maybe we aren't doing what we really love to do and that something else is calling us. And so I think if people are willing to lean into this, like a very foggy abyss at times, you can't see five feet in front of you often, and just trust that this period of your life is here to transform you for the better. And that sounds like, ah, that sounds good. I'll just do that. But if you are willing to have faith in this time and trust the timing of your life, I promise you that you will be blown away by what materializes through it and on the other side. Yeah, I love that. I mean, I call these things that happen to us AFGEs, another fucking growth experience, like that implode in our lives and break our ego apart,

like break our reality apart and turn out when you look back at it years later, you're like, Oh yeah. I think, you know, I remember so many times in my life afterwards saying there by the grace of God go, I thank God my first husband compulsively cheated on me and almost, you know, like I could possibly still be with him right now and I wouldn't have had discovered all the things I discovered and the freedom and met my forever husband and had my other two, you know, all the things you can look back on. But it's hard to know that in the moment when it feels like your life is imploding. And I know there are so many things that you speak about

and we'll get into some of them in a minute that you speak to in the book. Because I feel like a lot of the book is about how to support yourself through this transition that I think everybody kind of goes through. I don't know anybody who doesn't have a dark night of their soul in their mid to late 20s. Or if they don't, they're numbing out so much.

They're so disconnected that they're coasting until later. But eventually there's kind of this, I think it's developmentally, spiritually, metaphysically preordained. It's part of our soul's evolution that you're going to have this period. And to me, it's one of the purposes of this time in life, because hopefully you don't have your whole life completely set yet and you don't have 20 mortgages and five kids and everything, you know, and you can kind of fall apart and reconfigure a little bit in the way you need to at this age.

So I want to kind of segue into this pause question, but before we do, you know, and how to navigate that, because that's the next thing, right? Your life falls apart. You're in some way large or small. You're in this kind of dark night of the soul where who you, you know, where things have fallen apart and you are trying to have faith. And I do want to ask you guys what you do to cultivate faith, but I just want to make sure, Krista, that you don't have anything else to add on that front and, or let's talk about the pause, you know, that in between when you're unraveling and haven't yet re-raveled. What's so interesting about that period, and I've been in many, is sometimes I didn't really know, you know, I didn't really know, like I would say after my divorce, that I was in a period like that, that I was in my own metamorphosis and I had to completely dissolve in the cocoon before I was rebuilt again, and then eventually came out like a different person.

But I think now I'm more acutely aware of when I'm in those periods. But I'll also say, as spiritual souls on a growth path, you know, which is probably majority of your audience, we continue to evolve and grow. And I think I was writing about this yesterday, actually, that, you know, I think a lot of people feel like they're in the void. And A Course in Miracles always says that there's no gaps in your life, but there's just gaps in perception. And I was thinking about that a bit because I think that for a lot of our lives, we feel like if we're not at a destination, like we are not at like the next win or the next goal or the next like achievement that we're not at the right place. Like we're not doing the right things or

somewhere lost and we don't know what's going on. And I think for our soul, we're always on time and we're always on purpose and we're always going where we need to go, acquiring the right information. And so I don't want people to ever feel like parts of their life have no purpose or parts of their life have no meaning, or there are seasons where they're forgotten about and their soul or God is like, just turned a blind eye. Like that's absolutely not true. And that never really does happen. Are there periods where rest and respite is required? Yes. And does that feel for a lot of people's nervous systems like the void? Yes. Does that feel like they're doing something wrong. Yes. So it's really like, how can we be in a season of respite? It's the holidays.

Like it should feel like a void. It should feel like you're relaxing. It should feel like you're kind of just pulling back for a little bit before the new year. Like it is right to sometimes feel like you're in a period of reordering and restructuring and how I have faith during those times is remembering what faith is. You know, faith is believing in the unseen. It's believing in what has not manifested and it wouldn't exist if I didn't believe in what was manifested. So I just have, I mean, I have a whole sermon that I'm doing right now on this, but I just feel passionately because I think I spent a lot of my life feeling like I was in between and like I wasn't somewhere I should be. And I'm like, no, like I absolutely am in every moment where I

should be. And if I'm not, then I need to take action in that moment. But I think people are further along and better off than they think that they are. I love that. And I want to hear your sermon at some point. Because I feel like we need that. I mean, I struggle with it. I grew up with no faith and no religious practice. My dad was God and he was not a very good one. So I have such envy for my friends who grew up with a healthy relationship with spirit. Although I know that's the minority of people, but it's something that many of us have to cultivate in adulthood. So I love that you're speaking to that because I feel like now more than ever, people are in a crisis of faith. And I say the same thing that it's really, it's a decision.

It's a constant decision that you have to make and you have to decide to make and believing in what you can't prove. Yeah. Like any relationship, like any relationship I'm deciding and I'm choosing and I'm believing in this and I'm doing the thing and I'll let Lindsay speak, but I just wanted to say, we had to have our own reckoning with, you know, how we saw faith and how we saw God and how we saw everything because we had been told different things through religion and society. And part of our journey a few years ago was recreating and realigning to what felt true for us spiritually and what felt right for us. And I think that is a journey well taken.

That is a path well walked is when people can really pull back and reorient themselves to God, universe, source, whatever, you know, they want to call it. God is my thing is understanding how you can really be in the right relationship with something greater and bigger than you and more benevolent than you. And that's all seeing and all loving. and that was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life to reorient myself to God in that way and I think it's so normal to kind of walk back to your faith in your own way you know a lot of us grew up with kind of distorted ideas of faith and you know there

could be a thousand stories of this I think you know growing up in a home where my mom was like just very like church curious we would hop around churches and it was fun and innocent and beautiful and I enjoyed it. But my dad was like, what are you doing? And kind of like made fun of it. And he was, grew up Catholic and had his own stories around that. And so I was just kind of confused.

I'm like, okay, so is it cool or is it not cool? Like, is this for me or not for me? Do I have to like memorize everything and follow every rule in order to be accepted in order for God to be like, yeah, you're good. Come on in. I didn't get it. And so I had to go through all of that

in order to, in my adult life, I would say in my early 30s, just kind of re-meet God on my terms and not place so many things and people and institutions and rules between he and I, and really just be like, oh, wait, I can connect with you in this moment. I don't have to speak perfectly when I pray to you. I can be frustrated with you. You know, I can have this very personal relationship with you. And I didn't get that before. And so I think it's a really beautiful part of people's becoming in their true adulthood. And I hope more people talk about it because I do think it's a point of like, it can be very private and beautiful

and also some people have shame around it because they're not sure how other people will view them if they go to this church or do this or do this practice. And so, yeah, I just, I hope the veil is lifted from that, which I think it's happening for sure, where we can just have like very candid conversations about that and free flow and not feel like, oh, is this person like really Catholic or is this person like only Christian? And we have to talk about, you know, like just kind of like dance around it and just feel more free in our own personal faith. Yeah. Faith. And for me, and this hasn't happened, I would say until probably the last few years. I mean, it probably wasn't until my forties that I started even building a relationship with a higher power.

and then it was very abstract, the quantum field, you know, like it wasn't. And then it became spirit or God or oneness or holy oneness. And now it's evolving into more of a two-way relationship. Like before it was just me being like giving the shout outs. Yeah, here's some gratitude or thank you for this or please bring that, you know, but now it feels like it's more of a personal, like you were saying, relationship, but it's really an evolution. And I really, I love the idea of you guys, you know, with your audience and in your community, the Sermon on Faith and really helping to teach people how to cultivate this. Because if you can, you know, you speak, I know, to an even younger audience than I do. So if you can help cultivate

that and show the way, light the way for others, I think that's such a beautiful gift that you're able to offer among the other ones you offer. Thank you. It's a dream. You know, I'd say starting the podcast 10 years ago with Lindsay, like I don't know if we would have thought we'd be here talking about what we're talking about. We're talking about finding love.

Yeah, like we thought we'd be like, oh yeah, this is like red flag or green flag. Going on that and helping people. Yeah, we do that at some points, but helping people to reconnect with God, you know, reconnect with their faith there's something bigger than them is like the best. And it feeds every other relationship. So speaking of relationships, one of my favorite chapters, and I was like starring this and so

excited to read it was, I think it was chapter 11. You did such a beautiful job and not many people do not on explaining codependency versus enmeshment. Now you were talking about Krista's old beliefs around finding the other half of your soul, this whole concept that I'm always saying you even refer to nobody, you know, that stupid line from Jerry Maguire, you complete me, you know, that nobody completes you. But I want to speak a little about that part of your journey. And also maybe it's relevant, maybe it's not, but I do want to also speak about your relationship because working together with anyone is rife with complications. Working with someone when you're exploding on the scene and in such huge success and getting this huge platform puts

tremendous pressure on any work relationship and working with your friends is rife with complications. So I don't know if these two topics dovetail, but I thought I'd put them together in my question. Yeah. So Lindsay was the first one of us to go to therapy. So Lindsay was like, I'm going to therapy, you know, I'm starting this thing. And, And, and I was like, oh yeah. Like, I mean, I was so wounded. I was like, I don't trust, I literally said, I was like, I don't trust anybody. I was like, I don't trust the therapist. Like, what did they know that I don't know? Like my reaction was very clear that I needed therapy, but it was like, I had a whole fight with myself about it. I'm like, I don't trust anybody. What

did they know? You know, just have this, we're on this whole rant about it. Lindsay's like, okay. She's like, I'm learning about codependency. I'm codependent. And I'm like, sucks for her. codependent. I was like, I'm hyper independent. Like I just was like, and so Lindsay went on this like healing journey and started it for both of us of, you know, understanding her codependency and for her family enmeshment. And we obviously were in our own codependent patterns at that time, you know, basically giving our power away to one another for safety and for our connection and for our, each other's approval. We're working on wounds with each other. You know, Lindsay helped heal my mother wound, like sister wound. I healed some other wounds for her. So

we were like a great little laboratory for healing codependency and enmeshment together in our relationship. And it's so beautiful because once you have that template and what I've learned in life is having a template like I have with Lindsay of healing and of true repair and of true, you know, deepening through putting your feet to the fire and being honest and going through it, you can usually apply that to other people. But my codependency and the way that my flavor of that was, was, you know, complete self erasure. Like I just would like self erase. Like I would go places I don't even know where I was. Like I wouldn't even know if I had a body. Like I was just so porous and I was so available to be hijacked. And I was so available to be

infiltrated with energy and other people and all these things. And being someone that's really sensitive, it was almost like it took me over. And so when I started working with a therapist with codependency and stuff like that, it was so helpful. But I think I realized it the most at the end of my marriage, how bad it had gotten where I just completely lost myself in that relationship. And now I'm so happy because when you can see and understand codependency, and really it's like you outsourcing your power or outsourcing yourself for anything outside of yourself. So you can be codependent with social media. You can be codependent with food. You can be codependent with friends. It is like codependency is you dependent on something else outside of you

for safety or love or anything. We have it so intensely as a culture. And Lindsay and I both work together on that and both really work individually. But I think for anyone that goes on that journey, it can be one of the most worthwhile, again, to really look at how codependency plays a role in your life. And I think it was such an unlock in, yes, our romantic relationships, but when we really dug into how it was showing up in our friendship, it was pretty fascinating and I think helped us to understand one another on a deeper level because we then talked about where does this come from? It's not just that like, you're doing this to me and like this is happening. It's like, no, what is this bringing up and where does

this come from? And I think, you know, in any intimate relationship, it would behoove you to do this work and have these conversations because now I have this like beautiful book on Krista in the back, in my back pocket of understanding, you know, her past triggers, understanding what she's healed, understanding her experiences in her family dynamics and romantic relationships and just having like a really beautiful, holistic picture as much as she's told me and shared that like in almost any moment that feels a little crunchy, I can pause and understand why this might be coming up. And so it's not me reacting like, why are you reacting like this? Like, this is crazy. It's more like, totally makes sense. Let's talk about this and what's coming up

and this happens, you know, and vice versa as well. And it's just a really refreshing way to be in relationship, non-reactive way to be in relationship and more of like a heart to heart relationship, which I think is what we all want. But so many of us are in these codependent relationships where our younger selves are running the show or our minds are telling us lie after lie or our nervous systems are being activated. And we're not really allowing our hearts and our souls in the relationship to come forward. So it's been hard work. I'm not going to lie. We've just had seasons where it's like, oh damn, this is really hard. And now we stand here you know as friends for over 10 years and there's like no debris in our field right like anything

can happen and we can be like okay let's talk about it let's move through this there's nothing unsaid in that way and I have very few relationships probably by design that are like that and I cherish them and they serve as models for me and I hope that like I can model that to my children too. Because it's just the way that I didn't know relationships could be. And it's like all I desire in a relationship. I agree. And I think we heal relationship in relationship, which is partly what you're speaking to. I also love what you're essentially describing is that you've gotten to a point, it seems with each other that you don't take it personally. When this stuff comes up, you're like, oh, there's her trigger from when, you know, she witnessed this

thing and you know that's coming up or this is her abandonment thing coming up or this is her you know safety thing and you can i mean i have a thing with my friends with that where when one of us gets triggered yet and we talk about it later the other one says well you're welcome for triggering you you know you're welcome but i fucked up and triggered um or did that thing in my trigger that then triggered your trigger because that's one of the funnest is when you're goes with each other. Have you gone to therapy together? Yes. Has that been part of your journey? It seems like it could be and should be for most people working closely together. But yeah, we did. We worked with a coach that was like a therapeutic coach for probably two years. And

we would have one session together and then we'd have our own solo sessions. And yeah, it was just so helpful. And like, I think one of the things that was so helpful was like, I think a lot of times when you work together as a couple in therapy, you can kind of like be afraid. Like you're trying to win the therapist over or whatever. Like we were just so honest and like, I knew she was talking about me. I was talking about her. We were talking about it together. Like we were so available to be in the process of it and so available to be working through it and seeing it and like loving ourselves through it. Like it wasn't easy. Obviously you do get triggered and things come up and you know, you're not at your best self, but yeah, it's

really beautiful how we didn't really let shame take us down or didn't really let guilt take us down like two really dominant feelings. We always were like, okay, we're feeling this, but like, how can we work through it? So yeah, we did a lot of work together. And you were both willing. I mean, this is my problem of all relationships. You were both willing to do the work, to get the help and to take your a hundred percent of whatever was going on and take responsibility for that. And that's the thing. I mean, I used to work really closely with my sister and I had to stop because she was unwilling to look at the really toxic and dysfunctional things that were just wreaking havoc. And so I think that's why a lot of work

relationships and relationships in general don't make it. I mean, this is what I say to couples when people ask me, is there any couple that you, you know, what would be a couple you can't help? And I always say, honestly, I mean, there's not a lot of things I would say this about, but for me, when it comes to relationships, I'm an outlier. Like I'm a savant when it comes to relationships only. Most things I can't do well, but that and understanding that and helping people with that, but you both have to be willing. The only relationships I can't help or is one where one or both are unwilling to take responsibility for their a hundred percent unwilling to do the work and willing to step into it, which is scary. Yeah. So that I think is such a huge part of your

relationship and your journey and your success is that you have been willing to do that. And you don't realize how good it feels actually when you own your part of things. And I think to some, it can feel like defeat or I'm giving in or I'm letting them win. And you're really setting you both so free in that moment because you're basically saying, ah, like I'm in control. I am aware and I'm owning this and willing to maybe make another decision the next time. And it just, I've noticed in my marriage, especially anytime either of us just really in the moment, because it's honest, we just say, oh yeah, that wasn't nice. Or like, I totally reacted in that moment. I'm so sorry. It's like, it cleans a slate. It brings love back

into the room. It means you're aware. It makes the other person feel safe and understood. And it also makes you feel better because you're like, yeah, I'm an adult. I can own up to these things. Yeah, it does. I mean, I think a lot of that is just old shame and fear of abandonment. I know that was true for me when I was a younger adult in relationship. I mean, I used to joke that was one of the reasons I fell in love with my husband because he wouldn't let me do this. But what I would do, I was so good. I was super codependent and also could be really manipulative. So anytime someone was mad at me, someone who was in a high stakes relationship, like a boyfriend or a guy that I was dating or even some family members, even if I did something wrong, by the end of the

argument, they were apologizing to me. I would gaslight them. I wasn't even aware I was doing it. It wasn't from a narcissistic place. It was from a codependent place of being so afraid of being wrong because growing up, approval was equal to love and abandonment was right around the corner. And so if I displeased or displeasured or did something bad, there were massive consequences. And it wasn't until I did, Krista, my parts work and my internal work and worked with those smaller parts of me and all of that, that I started to, but with my husband, almost immediately, he was like, hell to the no, you are not no. Like from the beginning, he would not let me. And I hated it, but I was so enthralled by it. Cause I was like, this guy is going to keep

me honest. And he also allows where, when I do take responsibility, he's like, okay, you know, and he lets it go. He just got pissed at me the other day for throwing out his cranberry sauce that he made at Thanksgiving. Cause he was out of town and there, you know, no one in the house was left all these leftovers. And I had a housekeeper come and we were talking about, And it's like, here, take all of this. And I told him I gave her, you know, all the Thanksgiving stuff. He's like, you didn't give her the cranberry sauce, did you? I was like, well, everything's going to be old by the time you get back in town.

He's like, I made that cranberry sauce. And part of me wanted to be like, who the fuck cares? Make more. Like, what's the deal? You know, why are you making such a big deal? But I was like, you know what? I didn't even think about it. I should have had the cranberry sauce.

That was really insensitive of me. I just was in a rush to get rid of everything. And I was being careless. and then his response was well I can always make more there you go that's it I mean it's a little microcosm but in my 30s I would have tried to convince him that he was wrong for being upset about the cranberry stock I would bring up stuff from like the past like I'd be bringing like old finds out but like well there's one time you like so that I always do well do you remember when you threw out my special probiotics that were bad specialty yeah there are so many things that you

all get into in the book from meeting your soul and letting go of the shoulds and discovering your purpose and identifying your triggers and working with your triggers. There's so many elements of it that I'm just excited for people to dive in. Like I was saying earlier, whatever point you are in your journey, we go through all of these periods of reinvention, no matter what your age. And certainly if you know someone or parenting someone or love someone who is in their twenties, moving into their thirties, this is a beautiful gift to give them. What is one thing you would say maybe, or more than one thing you would say to parents before we close who have 20 something kids who, I don't know a 20 something kid who isn't struggling. I agree with you. I think

it's really important. And I know it's hard as a parent to see your child struggling. And I don't have an older child, but I have a brother who's in his late twenties. And I see my parents wanting to fix things, wanting to just make him happy, make him okay. And this period isn't one to focus on fixing. You know, I think that implies that something's wrong and that alone can just bring so much shame and heaviness to the table. But rather, I think as a parent, one of the most important things you can do is listen if your child is willing to talk. And sometimes they're not at first, but even just opening the door where there is no energy of judgment or I hope you're okay.

Like, you know, what can I do? It's just like, I remember my like 20s. It's intense. Like if you ever want to talk, I'm here. And I think you're doing, you are exactly where you're meant to be and you're learning and moving through things that you're meant to be moving through.

But I know it can be really intense. So if you want to talk about anything, no judgment. I don't think I can fix anything, but I am here to just listen. you know I think that can go so much farther because I think as kids that need from the parent to fix things puts a pressure on the kid to produce a perfect product yeah and to be able to be the perfect kid and be okay and be happy all the time and then they're not and then there's

this I failed yeah and we can't fix it nor should we because it's really their journey to metamorphosize we can't do it for them which is so freaking hard what would you say I think that was so beautifully said, you know what Lindsay said. I think the only thing that I would add is I'm not usually like one to say this, but I do think it is a really different time with social media, with AI, with how fast things are moving, with the options of jobs, of careers, of just like, it's really different, I think, than past times and previous times. And even when Lindsay and I were younger. And so just having the grace of knowing that they're up against things that are different than maybe what you and I were up against. And that means they're

going to be dealing with things that, you know, we've maybe never even dealt with before. So there's a compassion there. And there's also like an honor and a reverence for like navigating this really interesting time we're in as a collective and how they're meeting this time. I love that. You know, my, I was saying my, I have a 29 year old and he's sort of coming out of it now. I mean, he's struggled. He was a leukemia survivor as a young kid. He's always struggled with ADD and depression and all kinds of, you know, he's on a shaman's journey, this kid. But he went through a really dark time in his late 20s, you know, as he was like 26, 27, 28. And he was, you know, suicidal for a while. It was really tough. And I still have some trauma

about it. And just recently, he's doing great now. He has all these internal coping skills that I see have really cemented. And I see him using these strategies and moving himself in and out of these states. But he said he was, we had a thing recently where he was upset about something. It had nothing to do with me, but I, you know, I immediately, when he's down, all my alarm bells start going off and mama needs to fix it. And he's so attuned now, always has been, but he articulates his attunement. And he said, I'm talking to you and I feel frustration in you, even though you're not saying anything frustrating. Are you feeling frustrated? And I kind of stopped and I was like, before I rest your answer, I was like, I think I'm feeling scared more than

frustrated. Maybe it's coming across as frustrated. And there is a part of me that's wanting to run away because I'm scared and I feel helpless to help you. And I'm scared even though you're just having a bad day. There's a part of me that's like scared you're sliding back in or something catastrophe, you know, catastrophic is going to happen. And it was so beautiful because he's like, mom, you don't, all I need you to do is just say, it's going to be okay. I was like, wait, I just have to say it's going to be okay. And he's like, yeah, you just have to say it's going to be okay. And so that changed everything. Like now if he's having, I'm like, it's going to be okay. And you know, the other day he's like, are you just saying that? I was like, no, I really

mean it. I've always meant it, but it never occurred to me that you would hear it or that I could say it. So I don't know. I just say that it's offering and it's a mirror when you guys were saying that we can't fix it for them, but we can hold space for the fact that it's going to be okay. I believe in you. You will get through this. I'm here to support you wherever you want me to, or I can, but it's going to be okay. Even better than okay. He sounds amazing. Sounds amazing. That's beautiful. Yeah, it will be. And I think in the book, Almost 30 is the book title. We really wanted to let people know that they're not behind, they're just becoming. And a lot of the resources that we have in there are just supportive tools, exercises. We have a

lot of quotes from some of our podcast guests that we've had over the years that are really helpful. And then we have really honest, authentic stories of the struggles that Lindsay and I have been through, whether it's related to body or finding our spirituality or relationships and love or codependency and enmeshment. And our intention is to really just help people in their evolution and in their path and to feel less alone. You've done a beautiful job. I'm so grateful for you joining us. And we'll put the info about the book and your website and your socials. Is there anything else you want to make sure we mention or send people to? If you want to calculate your Saturn return,

we have our Saturn... I think it's saturnreturncalculator.com. And you can also find it on almost30.com, but it's just helpful to understand like when this is happening, it's free, but you just type in your birth info, date, time, location. And yeah, it's, it's nice to know like, ah, this is kind of like an intense period. And this is going to be like a more of an integration period, which we explain on the site, but yeah. I'm going to do it. You can have, you have more than one, right? You have multiple. I think I've, I think I just finished my another one, but I'm going to check and see. Powerful.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Laura. This has been such a pleasure. And you're also on our show. So if you can listen to that to you there as well, which is a delight. Yes. It was fun to be with you.

To be continued. I love you both. And I'm so grateful for all you do in the world. Thank you. Thank you guys. Bye.