Language of Love with Dr. Laura Berman - Why Vulnerability is So Sexy

Episode Date: July 21, 2021

On today’s episode of “The Language of Love,” Dr. Laura Berman talks about demisexuality. This term is used to describe someone who only feels an attraction to someone after they have built an emotional connection with them. In other words, they generally don’t feel attraction to celebrities or attractive people they see walking down the street: First, they need to get to know a person before desire develops. In a similar vein, Dr. Berman discusses arranged marriages and whether it is possible to create a sexual connection with someone you only meet on your wedding day. What happens if the person standing at the altar isn’t physically attracted to you, or vice versa? Is there a way you can build desire and attraction if the feelings aren’t there, or if they have diminished over time? Additionally, how can you build an emotional connection when someone when you feel completely distanced from your partner? Next, Dr. Berman talks to a woman who discusses how the lockdown has changed her dating behavior. How was love changed post-pandemic? Dr. Berman acknowledges how being in quarantine has led to us feeling awkward and a bit uncomfortable with eye contact. Moving out from behind our screens and back into the real world can feel very daunting, and lead to feelings of vulnerability and uncertainty. How can we ease back into social activities and find our groove again, after so many months of being shut up at home with Zoom as our main social contact?  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm Dr. Laura Berman, a sex and relationship therapist. And for the past three decades, I've been helping people learn how to love and be loved better. That's what we're doing here on The Language of Love, where I get to answer calls and emails from people just like you. My goal with The Language of Love is to help you discover more meaningful emotional and physical intimacy and to help you build more awareness of how precious and sacred your sexuality really is. Be sure to email me or reach out with your very own love, sex, relationship questions, and I might just answer them live on the air. It's time we all become fluent in the language of love.

My favorite three topics, sex, love, and relationship. As my husband likes to say, the gift that keeps on giving, but it's also one of my favorite topics to talk about. and sort of the crux of my work. Do you have a question? I want to know if somebody could be loved. Can we forcefully do that? We don't have that connection, you know?

So you want to love somebody. Can we forcefully do that? Wait, so if you don't have a connection with someone, can you force it? Is that what you're asking? Yeah. Why would you want to force it? Is it that they aren't interested,

or are you trying to have feelings for someone Something is not working out. I don't know what that is. I can't find one specific point, but something is not right. I don't feel it that way. So if we try more, will it get any better? Well, you know, if there's no chemistry, then it can be hard, but it's not impossible. For instance, I've worked through the years with lots of couples that for all sorts of reasons have arranged marriages, few of them have actually just met their partner right on or right before the wedding day. And the attraction was, you know, that's a great example of how getting married to someone or getting together with someone not based on attraction, right? You don't even know or see them beforehand in many of these cases. And I've worked with some of these couples where there really is not any, you know, they look at their new husband or wife and think to themselves, you know, you are not necessarily who I would be attracted to. And there isn't a lot of immediate attraction. But if they're motivated and invested, they can start to build that attraction to each other, finding things that they are attracted to, focusing on those, the shared vision of the future, the connection, the depth of the emotional connection can start to build that attraction. but it's not easy and if you aren't physically attracted to someone it can be hard to gin that up but i wanted to know like is there something like a period for guys to get involved into a relationship like is there a something a phase between getting so close like the intimacy that

worked out i'm not sure i understand your is there i didn't understand what you're saying something to help guys do you mean physically get aroused no not physically i'm asking about like uh there is something like say phase between getting so intimate with the opposite sex for guys i mean like you mean before you go there no it's not about sex or anything just talking about the physical not physical the chemical bonding yeah what about it is there something that helps you want it not not to perform but you're saying is there something that helps with desire and wanting to connect or is there something are you asking is there something that can help me feel more emotionally close to someone no i heard something like uh if we can get into a relationship

then uh for the girl from the day one it will be like a tight emotional relation but for a guy it will take so much time yes into that yeah i would say in general i mean there's differences we can't really generalize too much there's cultural differences and gender differences and all kinds of differences. But in general, women certainly feel attraction if they're attracted to someone or not right away. But their emotional closeness usually builds more quickly. They fall in love, and then that only feeds their sexual interest in that person. And very often, men are the opposite in that they feel the sexual attraction first, and the sexual connection first and the emotional connection takes some time to build. But the one thing that really

builds emotional connection in any relationship, no matter who you are, is taking those emotional risks with one another and being vulnerable with one another and letting your partner or your new partner sort of see the truth of you. And the more you do that, the more you open up to them, the closer you feel to them, especially if they hold that information and those sharings with reverence and are respectful of you and understand and appreciate what you're sharing and what you're showing them, then that just brings you closer. And I find that if anything helps build that emotional closeness, it's vulnerability in all relationships, but especially in love relationships. Hopefully that helps Nadir. Hello, Dr. Berman. I come at the relationship

end as being working with very empathic women who magnetically draw narcissistic people and how to free themselves of that so that they can then go within the source of love through meditation and other practices. What I am looking at for, you know, being loved, how to not not the how to love but being loved. I heard this term this last year, I'm like, Oh, that's me. You know, it's like I've gone through all these different layers and people have labels you know you're heterosexual homosexual blah blah blah there's this one called metrosexual have you heard of that one where you need to feel trust and respect before you ever have attraction i think that's where yeah well i love that i didn't the only time i've ever heard metrosexual is in referring to heterosexual men

who are very into their appearance and looks and quaff and wax and all of that. But I've never heard it. I love that idea, because there certainly are many people who sexual attraction comes with emotional connection, and it doesn't happen on its own. So it's really from then there are lots of people like that, more often than not women like that, whose sexual interest is built from emotional interest i think that's what you're talking about yeah i thought it was funny that was metrosexual that's those guys that like to get yeah that's what i thought but this i i looked it up again i was like yeah that's what they're calling it it's just i don't know why but uh i would call it a uh maybe something respecterosexual or agape sexual or something

You know, when you emotional respect, emotional, sexual, I don't know what we'll have to come up with a better term. But I know what you're saying. And I do think, you know, that grows. There's not a it's not a good or bad thing. It's just it often develops, you know, our our love maps, so to speak, are really developing our first seven years of life, according to the research, who we're attracted to, what we're attracted to, what turns us on. And it often has to do with those synapse connections that happen early in life. And then, of course, the trajectory can be affected and changed by traumas later or heartbreaks or abandonments or any kind of things that happen along the way. Or just inhibitions or stories about what nice girls or good girls do or don't do. I think that also experimentation would go in there because if you reject like whatever you've been told you need to be, then you may be experimenting. For myself in experimenting and trying different things, you can follow your physical attractions. You can follow your emotional attractions, your intellectual. And when I come down to it, I need to have that respect, that comfort, that trust.

And it doesn't have to be exactly the same, but at least that sense of parity along the spiritual lines. And as COVID is allowing us to get out there a little bit more, I'm like, hmm, how to be loved better? I would love to hear more about that. It sounds like you're really further along than many because you've gotten clear on what parameters need to be in place for you to feel relaxed, open hearted, in flow and safe enough to let love in. One of the reasons, the biggest barrier to being loved, which to me is receiving love, is defensiveness, lack of safety, inability to be vulnerable, difficulty opening your heart, which I would say every single one of us has struggled with to one degree or another because of the big T trauma and little t traumas we've experienced throughout our lives of abandonments, rejections, not enoughness messages. So really the more, and I loved what you said in the very beginning of your question, when you said that you help women who are, have kind of been in this codependent mindset where the, or empaths as well, often whom are codependent out of survival, you know,

finding themselves repeatedly in really toxic relationships with narcissists or others. And And that the key to really helping them heal is helping all of us, not just women who are empaths and codependents, but all of us really tapping into where the true love lies, which is in ourselves and our connection to spirit, whatever you want to call that. And when you really have a good flow there and you can start to build self-worth, and when you start to build self-worth, then you're willing to take more risks. because you care less about what other people think of you. You realize that's more about them than you. And you can start to take more risks and open your heart more and be more vulnerable because you have less to prove to the outside world. And I'm noticing that that's happening on a macro level right now around, you know,

with everyone that people are really waking up to this and wanting to create these shifts in a big way. And to me, if I had to kind of summarize what goes into being loved better and loving better, but especially receiving love, it's that. Yeah, I think that's spot on because especially for anyone who has had narcissistic abuse, they want you to filter your life through their perspective, which is that you don't have worth. So getting released from those kinds of dynamics, then you start to build up your inner strength and your inner love, and then you attract at that level. you know, frequency of a higher love. Yeah. Lovely. Absolutely. Thank you for that. I just want to take a little segue here and talk about an important issue that I find really affects women's lives and the people who love them. And it's something not talked about nearly

enough. Millions of women, so many of them struggle with chronic UTIs, urinary tract infections, and it can happen due to all sorts of reasons menopause pregnancy other hormonal changes other factors but it can drastically and negatively impact your interest in sex as well as your enjoyment and you know the most common prescriptions doctors will give you to avoid them is peeing after sex and lots of cranberry juice which can help but certainly often is not enough and uquora this company i've discovered has a uti relief products that will help you address the UTI symptoms until you're able to go see a doctor. But they also have a proactive urinary tract health supplement line

that helps you maintain a healthy urinary tract and avoid those infections. So get proactive about your urinary tract health with Eucora. And right now, Eucora is offering 20% off when you go to eucora.com slash love. But hurry, because it's a limited time offer. Go to uquora.com slash love to get 20% off your order. That's u-q-o-r-a dot com slash love. My name is Deanna Labonte. How to love and be loved better.

And that is my mantra. One of my many. Mantra, you should only have one, but it really does all come down to love and self-love. For the people that are always asking, and this was certainly my path, like, there's got to be something more. Certainly, this isn't all there is as far as a relationship with a partner. And if you have that feeling, yes, you're absolutely right. That's your inner true self saying, you better believe there's something better. yeah however the caveat is it has to come from you so when I had cycled through I'm on my third marriage and uh and I have no attachment to this marriage I immensely love this man and we're coming from the same place but we I couldn't date him until I cleaned up my own baggage and I knew I had to fall in love with myself first so everything that I was looking for

in a partner I needed to give myself so if it was taking myself on a date or doing things that I love allowing myself to indulge myself in something fabulous and delicious and sweet and sexy I would do that and then did you end up with this person yeah that's the partner that I attracted it's like me in a man's body and he can say the same I am him in a woman's body we have a nice balance between that beautiful man and young male female a lot of respect and honor for one another how our perspective is if there's a bump so say we disagree on something or piss each other off we both step back because it's not about the other person. And that was really hard for me to swallow many years ago.

I was with somebody that was a narcissistic man. And it's like, I never asked for this. That's not a mirror of me. But in different aspects, it really was. And so I had to look at that. Otherwise, I was continuing with the same program running and it attract the same type of person. Yeah, and I think what you're saying is,

one of my biggest pet peeves is that Jerry Maguire movie when he says, you complete me, right? This idea that, and this is what, I'm a recovering codependent, was raised by a narcissist. I've had many relationships with narcissists through the years. So I know what you're talking about personally as well as professionally.

And it's usually the codependents who attract in and are attracted to the narcissist. And it is because we don't have growing up or in our toxic beginnings, the way we survived was adapting our reality to the key caretakers or the people whose love we felt we depended on as children. Because as a child, love and approval are the same thing. And, you know, we need our caregivers for survival. It's like a live or die thing. So we give our truth away. You know, I always like to joke that if I looked up at the sky and said, oh, the sky is blue. And my dad said, no, it's yellow. My sister would fight with him and say, no, it's blue. I would say, oh, I must be wrong. The sky really is yellow. And, you know,

and I'm a codependent in the family, but that's sort of the dynamic in a nutshell that you get, you have a hard time with what we call discernment because you get gaslit so much or threatened so much in these toxic relationships. And then it's very hard to know your own mind, know your own truth and feel whole and complete on your own. And so what you were saying, Deanna, about, you know, realize as you started, because by the way, every single one of us, when we're having a relationship with someone else, a really close relationship, whether that's a lover, a child, a friend, we are actually having a relationship with ourself through that other person. That's really what we're doing in intimate relationships. So the more you can cultivate a

whole and complete relationship with yourself where no one else completes you, no one else is required to take yourself on a date or to give yourself a present or to to make your life whole you are already your whole delicious wonderful cake the other person is amazing icing and sprinkles and yumminess on top but they certainly aren't required in order for you to have to feel whole doesn't mean we we don't absolutely want that and need that to have a full and robust and beautiful life you know of course we do but it's a very different dynamic when you come to that hole you you attract in and are attracted to a very different caliber of person which is what you found I think that's a beautiful testimony to that the contrast that we're talking about

along the way so the first seven years our personality is developed yeah the things that happen to us are kind of anchored in and starts developing our program and then there's additional programs that we'll start to run as depending on our experiences. So the other piece that I've learned along the way is I absolutely honor, respect, and have immense gratitude for every partner that I've had. Yeah. And I... They've all been your teacher.

They have absolutely been my teacher. So through the contrast, I've been able to discern more of what it is that I want because I wasn't in a position to really know what I want. Yeah. You don't until you have that contrast. And I also think it's really important for healing and moving forward to recognize that even those horrible tragedies and traumas, and Lord knows I've had my share of them, just like the rest of us, are really all ultimately for us. they're what I like to call AFGE, another fucking growth experience. And sometimes those things go on for years, not long before my dad died, who I adored, but was a toxic narcissist. And I was his person, you know, after my mom died for the last several years of his life. And he was, you know, getting more and more aging and debilitated. And as he was dying, you know,

he's maybe like a week out, he was really weakening, it was obvious that his liver cancer had metastasized, and we were sort of setting him up with hospice. And we started talking about him dying. And I read him the chapter, I'll never forget, I read him the chapter from Anita Morjani's book, Dying to Be Me, about when she died and what happened. She's a woman, a beautiful teacher who died and actually came back to have a miraculous recovery. But she talks about what she learned on the other side, which is really empowering. And then I told him, thank you. I said, I just want to thank you. I want to, first I said, I want to forgive. I need to tell you that I forgive you and that you have this story about why I became a therapist and a sex therapist,

that you were so open about sex and, you know, made me open. And that's true to a point, but it's not really the reason I became a therapist. And he said, well, why? And I said, because I needed to understand, you know, and then I went on to describe all of this toxic behavior around sex and infidelity and that sort of stuff. I didn't do it in a really hostile way, but I laid it all out. And I said, and in the end, I know that my soul chose you to be my dad and you agreed because I needed to have the experience of seeing these things and experiencing this rejection and this relationship inconsistencies and because that drove me to need to understand why someone would behave that way and then that led me yes to make a lot of bad decisions in love but in fact

I wouldn't have my son if I hadn't done that and I this wouldn't have happened if I hadn't done that and that wouldn't have happened and I wouldn't have ended up being this kind of therapist that spends her life helping people learn how to love and be loved better because as I've healed I do that for others as well. So I not only forgive you, I thank you. And it was one of the most profound things that have ever happened. Because as I said that to him, you know, as a toxic narcissist, he I'd never heard him in my entire life apologize for anything. And he just looked at me and he said, I am terribly, terribly, terribly sorry. And it was honestly one of the most healing moments of my life. So not all of us get a chance to openly and overtly forgive

those who have wounded us most, but we don't need to do that to them and with them. I think just the act of recognizing the lessons and the gifts in that pain and how it serves you and how the contrast now highlights what you want moving forward and how you're going to move forward in healing, that is the key because none of us can avoid pain. It's what we do with it. thank you Deanna thank you it's Kat a lot of us have spent a long time in lockdown for me it's been nearly a year and so I'm back to dating again and it's so fun but I'm also kind of conscious that how I'm dating right now and my openness and things are a bit different so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how lockdown has potentially changed the landscape of dating

and is there anything that we should be looking out for as we're dating on the good or the bad side well you know it's interesting because if you think about it it's not just with dating although certainly dating is a big old microcosm of this but as with all socializing I feel like we're all a little bit awkward you know it kind of reminds me of what experts have been saying about teenagers for so many years, where they spend so much time, even when in the same room together, communicating through their screens, that when they start to communicate face to face, they often don't have the same skills for reading social cues, much less the same comfort with eye contact and connection. I mean, that's, I don't mean to, you know, compare teenagers who use too

much technology to adults who are getting out in the dating world after a pandemic, but there is a thread there in that we are out of practice being in the energy of other people. I think this is the first time, you know, since the early 20th century that we have all mutually cut off in many ways from direct human to human contact in our society. And now we're coming back to that. So I think there's a little bit of natural awkwardness, discomfort. I've seen a lot of kind of a little bit of hyperness. It's just like the puppy who's been locked inside too long finally getting out. So there's a lot. I've been hearing a lot of, I mean, I'm not outdating myself, but I certainly am working with a lot of people who are a lot of hyperness, a lot of

enthusiasm, which can be good, but it also can be a lot when you've been used to being in complete control of your environment 24 seven and without a lot of person to person stimulation. So I think it's just a lot energetically a lot. I've even found that myself, I went to an event with just like 15 people. And I felt really overwhelmed, which I'm not someone who's an introvert at all, I'm usually the last one to leave a party. And I had to go like outside and sit down on the roots of a tree because I felt so ungrounded and my stomach was hurting and I was picking up all of the energy in the room. Like whatever was going on with all the people in the room, I was now somehow at the effect of, because I'm not used to having my kind of erecting my energetic barriers

when I go out in the world, because I haven't had to in a year. So I think it's going to take some practice. And the good news is that we don't have to go back to normal, right? We're creating our new normal. And so what I'd be interested in if I were you, Kat, as someone who is trying to live a conscious life, and that's really important to you, one of the best questions you can ask someone on a first date, I think, is, you know, how did you spend the pandemic? What did you learn about yourself during that time? Did you have any realizations about your life? If you go on a date with someone who's like, no, I just played video games and ate potato chips and sat around in my boxers the whole time. That's okay. But I just was waiting for it to end. You hear these ridiculous

things from people. And we all do what we needed to do to survive this. But what I'd be looking for is someone who really had some big realizations, who got really clear about what they wanted out of life, who used this time when they couldn't go out to go inward, and who is really moving back out into the world consciously that's what I would be looking for if I were you and I think that could be a great litmus to explore as you start talking to people or going on dates I'm smiling so big right now because that is an amazing question and even when I think of myself pandemic just changed the game for me yeah I was thinking the other day as I'm dating I'm a different person. And so that would be an amazing question to really get an insight to

someone. And I also have a follow up sort of based off of that. One thing I've noticed this week in particular, I don't know, Dr. Laura, if there's something in the universe, but it seems like men are old men who I've had conversations with are just falling out of the sky. Like the song, it's raining men has never been more true. And so I'm in this place where I'm kind of stuck between is this happening just because now in London, we're able to go out and someone is bored? Or is it happening because now we're able to go out, maybe people didn't want to start a new relationship or conversation during the pandemic? What's the best way to kind of navigate to make sure you're on the right path and not the path with the person who's just bored?

I think that's always the case. I think that people do have a new lease on life coming out and they want to get in a relationship. Those who want a relationship want to explore that. And also people have been lonely. So there are going to be a large proportion that are just looking to have fun. I think the key is both in your profile being really explicit about what you're looking for.

I'm really only interested in dating if, in fact, you do want a committed relationship. I'm really only interested in dating people who are also looking for a committed relationship. I'm not really interested in a casual fling right now. You know, you really make that clear in your profile and even in your conversations. But just if you make it clear in your profile that, you know, it's true. The research shows that men don't typically read the profiles. They just look at the pictures. so those men that are falling raining from the sky may not all may all just be you know responding

to your beautiful picture and not reading what you've written and that's why once you start talking to them before you go through the process of spending a lot of time talking to them or meeting them you just say look i just want to you know make sure it's totally fine if you're just looking for fun but i'm not your girl like i'm really only interested in going on dates with people that are looking for a committed relationship and just set that up from the beginning new from Nespresso blend wellness into your coffee routine with the Coffee Plus range

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whatever lies ahead don't change your morning let your morning change you discover Coffee Plus on Nespresso.com A player who's just looking to get laid, there's plenty of women he can find to do that with. Unless he's really a toxic manipulator, which there are not many of those, I tend to think higher of human nature than that, they're not going to go to the trouble of courting you and dating you when they can get in the pants of plenty of other women. If you make that clear from the get-go, you'll weed out a lot of them. yeah that's really true I'm gonna take a double look at my profile and see what I can add in there and one of the things this is my last bit one of the things I've noticed as well is it's also guys who I've spoken to in the past so whether it was like my high school crush or someone who I've like

I've been sending a lot of what's your name again I've been like oh wait why is this person messaging me. So how could I adapt that I'm only looking for a serious relationship? Would that be just something I would say in conversation? Okay. All right. That's very helpful. Hi, Dr. Laura. I'm Natalie. I have a question for you. I'm wondering how do you tell the difference between being avoidant and just being happy alone? Great question. I think the fundamental core difference is fear. So if you are happy alone, you're happy alone, but you also don't hold a lot of fears or concerns about other people's agendas of getting hurt of scarcity or being cheated on or being abandoned or, you know, all the, or left, right. All the things that kind

of lead to that more avoidant attachment style. It is in our nature. We are pack animals. It is in our nature to love and to want to be loved. That doesn't mean something's wrong with you if you want to be alone. I mean, certainly we all go through faith. Hopefully we're very, very, you know, the goal is to all be very comfortable alone so that we can be whole humans in our own delicious cake, as I was talking about before we go looking for our icing. But avoidance comes, you know, when you are trying to avoid something, right? So that in and of itself is a kind of fear. Is this talking about you in particular, Natalie? Is this a theoretical question or a personal question? No, it is. And it's about me. I think that the pandemic kind of helped me

realize how happy and peaceful I felt. Honestly, I think a lot of people suffered and I actually a lot of joy and peace in in uh yeah i think it's peace that that is harder to get when you're with someone else so i've just been really content and peaceful and i don't know so that's how you know the goal in a good relationship you know if it's a good relationship it is peaceful and lovely It should not be drama filled. It should not be up and down and uncertain or crisis ridden or betrayal ridden. And I think you're in a beautiful position, Natalie, if you do want to find love moving forward, sort of like I was saying to Kat, that if you have had this beautiful time where you've really become whole on your own and you really relish your own peace and you feel really centered in yourself, you can now if and when you're ready manifest a partner that will match that frequency you know that is a frequency match for you and you can make and should make your inner peace and your sense of calm and peace the most important thing right so that if someone pulls you out of your

peace or insists on disrupting your peace that is not the person for you you know what the I was saying this to someone not long ago, cause they were talking about butterflies and how you're supposed to feel butterflies. Butterflies are actually the body's warning system. When you feel butterflies, that is your body saying run. I mean, it's exciting and it's fun, but it's probably because you're recognizing an old wound. Like I know you, you know, in that other person. So when you go out with someone and you're like, Oh, I feel like I've known this person all my life. They're so familiar to me. And I had butterflies. I'm thinking, girl, run, because that is the same old, same old. And what you're really looking for, what true love, not just

attachment or trying to complete yourself through someone else, but what real love feels like is like coming home. It should feel peaceful. I mean, obviously it's also passionate, but it should feel peaceful. And obviously a sense of peace is crucial to you. So you want to attract in someone who feels that way too. And this isn't to rush you to get back out there. It's just to offer you the possibility that both can be true. That's really helpful. Thank you. I agree about the butterflies. Those are warning signs for me. Yeah, I agree. All right. Good. Thank you, Natalie. Good luck. Bill Coughlin, pleasure to get an opportunity to speak to Dr. Laura Berman. So I've been blessed to have some wonderful relationships, married long term, have three children.

So but back in the dating game, I've had some wonderful relationships and I'm very fortunate. I'm very I spent a lot of time getting to a better place in my life. Very healthy. I feel like I'm in a good position of having a relationship. I'm probably in the best position I've ever been, but I'm not 21. So so it's a different world. And when I'm at this point in my life, I'm looking to connect with somebody on a very different level, you know, spiritual level. is important but compatibility is probably the most important thing yeah having a long-term partner it won't be super long term because i'm not i'm not that younger person anymore

but finding that and converting sort of from that initial i'm very good at kind of getting people to you know initially like me uh you know wonderful first dates it's those it's that balancing act of going into that next phase where many people of course want to build sort of start his friends. But there's got to be that other charge there somehow or other. And I think I'm not, I'm not converting that probably like I'd like to, you know, maybe it's got to be shorter dates or tend to go on these long second or third dates. And there may be that, you know, in our nature, I should be doing something, you know, just ratcheting up to that. So are you being relegated to the friend zone? Is that what you're saying, Bill?

I think I'm doing that, partly. I recognize I don't think it's so much them. I think I am doing it subconsciously, treating them as a friend, because you don't want to come on too strong. And especially what I'm sensing in people coming out of COVID is a reluctance here. Yeah. Everybody's a little fearful, scared of the other, even though I'm fully vaccinated. They say they are, too. It's just we've all lived through at a very unusual time in our lives and we nothing we could ever have predicted. So it's a it's that where do you stand in this space? You know, so I'm like, do I know how do I come on stronger or less strong? You know, so and being an empath, you read other people. Do you mind me asking how old you are, Bill? I'm 61. and are you um committed to an age group um i tend to date people much younger than myself

typically you know 10 years younger is approximate because all my friends are 10 years younger and it just seems to be i've got a lot of you can hear my voice a lot of natural energy but you would date someone older if they were like you and an equal match to your energy and everything else so you're not determined to that no no compatibility is much more important so yeah new from Nespresso blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range infused with functional benefits choose the coffee you love with added b vitamins like coffee plus b12 to help support immune function and coffee plus b6 to keep your day moving or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight our new double espresso with ginseng extract whatever lies ahead

don't change your morning let your morning change you discover coffee plus on espresso.com boy i know a 66 year old woman who's hot as hell and would be perfect for you i just went on a two-hour hike with her this morning she left me in the dust that's my kind of woman i mean hiking is my love language so well her name is tina cameron so check her out i think she's on clubhouse she might even be here no i don't think she is okay but check her out. So anyway, so besides that, I think you may be onto something if, if you are. So here's the tricky part with being an empath. We, we kind of use that term a lot. I'm one too. I know exactly what you're talking about. I, by the way, I want you to listen to the podcast I did with Anita

Morjani. I was mentioning her earlier, earlier about the book she wrote years ago called dying to be me, but her very recent book, I just did a podcast with her on the language of love about her new book, Sensitive is the New Strong, and it's a survival guide for empaths. But one of the things that I think can be really tricky with us empaths is that the line can be pretty blurry between empath and codependent. And you can start reading people preemptively as a protective mechanism right i get that and not only making assumptions that may not be real and or reading something that really isn't about you but about their energy in that very moment you know yes and so i do think if you are committed to moving slowly which by the way i think is a very good

idea for anyone looking for a long-term relationship i agree i would keep those dates shorter until you are very clear because you know two hours being friendly and engaged think about you know from the woman's perspective if she's interested in you and attracted to you two hours on a date where you're buddy buddy and just kind of friends she may not you know you're having a meal together and you're not really spending a long walk or hike for hours together where you could make a move right and you don't make a move she's not going to question it but if she spends a whole day with you and you haven't made a move, you know, then she's going to assume she's in the friend zone and then it's going to be, and then she's going to put you there and then you're

going to feel that empathetically and then you're going to react to that. So I would say, first of all, yes, keep the dates shorter until you are clear that A, you're really attracted to this person. You like their personality, you know, and you want to pursue things and B, maybe be a little bit more directive and proactive about your attraction even outing it and say i mean i'm a big fan of outing stuff right oh i did i did this yesterday but on a long hike before our hike you know and i put it out there because i think i've made it clear but she's moving very slowly because she's had two difficult relationships so okay so that's okay yeah but like yeah saying look i find you really attractive you know i'm just moving slowly because right you know i think that's

important yeah i agree i'm very good at generally doing that i haven't done that in the past so much but i'm being much more direct and open good and i'm i'm fine i have i'm in a fortunate position i can i'm able to get many dates so it's not a problem so i'm not like oh that was the one i'm fine so um i'm good thank you very much i appreciate it all right you're welcome bill okay i'm patrick this year i'm 54 i've been dating since i was 18 well really 19 but i'm not just dating. I've actually been in long-term relationships since then with some sort of embarrassing overlaps, I suppose, and some exploration into polyamory, which also has a lot to teach and can be very painful and very beautiful. But this last like six months,

I've actually been single for the first time and been, this first time I've ever been single and happy. And I don't know whether it's the COVID environment and just the general neosphere, the atmosphere of human consciousness, and everyone's just kind of like in a new space, But I just realized maybe throughout my last number of relationships, but particularly recently, it's not so much – yes, relationships are work. That's – you could say that, and you could say, oh, well, if it's a lot of work, then it's actually not a good relationship or it just takes a lot of relationship for it to work. What I realized was that if there's someone that's that close to me, like they're living with me, they're with me all the time, that's a really powerful, like, influence. So that – exactly, right? So if they're going to be that close, then it's got to work pretty well.

And so I just found myself for the first time getting deeper into like, you could call it self-love, I suppose, but I would call it more of some kind of self-realization that, or what did the Greeks say, to know thyself, right? and so but in order to do that i kept trying to do that in context of experiences and now i'm finding more and more to back off from other things around me and the direct experience of kind of like just the way i am like in the morning like right when i wake up and like i've kind of come out of i've been you know re merged into reality again and i lay there and think like okay i'm a little depressed he forced myself to smile okay in 30 seconds i'm actually starting to feel okay and my head starts flooding into my head what am i thinking about and yeah so and then a little adaptation thing i've noticed while um we could call it dating but let's say just

talking to other people on the phone is that after i finish a phone call or or zoom or whatever i will sit back and reflect to myself how do i actually feel not about a person but how i feel not how i feel about them and it's really helped it's really helped me sort of dial in and guide my choices and decisions on who to communicate with and things like that. Wow, great conversations. If you have any questions or comments, I'm all about it. Yeah, I love that, Patrick. And I think what you're describing is quantum love. And I encourage you to read that in my book. That's the title of it. But basically, what you're tapping into is frequency, right? So when you get off that exchange and you tap into how do i feel that's really all we're looking for in love

but really all we're looking for period you know is how we want to feel why do you want that job or that maserati or that person or whatever because you imagine or to lose 20 pounds or whatever it is that you want it's because you are looking for a feeling nice nice and so when you are thinking, I always say to people, instead of thinking about what you're looking for in another person or a partner or a love match or whatever, think about if I have that perfect person with me who is a perfect match for me, how do I feel, right? So I guess what I would add to what the beautiful words you already said, Patrick, is to try the reverse too, right? So you're kind of doing this litmus where every time you talk to somebody, you're like, okay, how do I feel? And then you're

using that to inform probably not on your own self-awareness, but do I want to have another conversation with that person, right? Is that person who's a vibration match for me? I would encourage you to take it a step further and start getting really, really clear on how you want to feel in love or in life in general, because you're going to want different feelings for different things, right? Or maybe all the same thing. But one person may want to feel in love, passionate and playful and adventurous. And another person would want to feel cherished and safe and cozy, you know, like, so how is it that you most want to feel and starting there and living more and more into that feeling will attract not only potential partners and mates,

but all sorts of people and experiences into yourself to yourself that are a frequency match for that. May I share a moment more? Yes. You know, there's that phrase like serial monogamy, which is sort of makes sense if you put one partner to the next. And what I've been exploring is this concept that I've been writing about and talking to some people and I call it temporal polygamy. And the idea is that we have many lovers over time. Then I'm trying to expand that now into more of a sensorial experience where it's kind of like we have many breakfasts over time, many dinners over time. And then really trying to look at our actual body and our entire sensing mechanism and our microbiome as well, and trying to allow that to sort of evolve with us, where the different

things that are exterior to us, when they come to us, whether it's food or a person or music, whatever it is, those things we then are able to dial it in and really be self-reflective and explore. Anyway, thank you so much. Fantastic. Thank you. Thanks for sharing with us. I did a great conversation with Anita Morjani, as I was saying, about her new book, which is doing fantastically well. Sensitive is the New Strong, an Empath's Guide to Living in a Harsh World, I think is the subtitle. But it's such a beautiful book if you are someone who identifies as an empath or someone who tends to just be affected by the feelings and moods and picking up on those things, or we're just called too sensitive your whole life. She's a really powerful teacher. I

also, I think this week we put up the podcast that I did with Martha Beck, who, you know, is, was Oprah's life coach for many years. And she has had an amazing career and is a really talented life coach and teacher. And she, her newest book, which is now her bestseller is called the way of integrity. And it's really about how all the ways that we accidentally, you know, a lot of you were talking about this and how being in the pandemic actually moved you to a place of integrity with yourself. And now you're trying to get back out in the world and maintain that integrity. I mean, you didn't put it that way, but that's a version of what your questions have been. And so it's really about recognizing in all these subtle ways that we don't even notice

when we're out of integrity and what that costs us and how to recognize that and stay in integrity, which is really about staying in flow and in your power. So I thought that was a beautiful conversation. And I also have one, I think it's next week, it's coming out, is a conversation with Dr. Shefali. She wrote a beautiful book that I have recommended to probably 10,000 people through the years called Conscious Parenting. I give it as like a gift to every parent I know. It's such a beautiful book. But now she just wrote a book that was inspired by her own journey called The Radical Awakening. And it's really about, it's primarily about women and all the subtle ways that she realized and also recognizes as a psychologist working with other women, that we have subtly given our power away to, in all sorts of ways, just to keep the peace or to please or to get along. and not just in our relationships, but in our work life and our friendships

and all the institutions we operate in. And she shares her own journey of awakening and provides a guide to other women to really stepping into that power. And she talks a lot about sex, which I love. My name is LaVanya. I am excited about this topic. I think like how to love and be loved better is amazing.

And I did hear from Patrick and what he kind of said and basically touching on that, that self-love aspects. And then what Laura said as well was amazing was, how does this make me feel? And do I want to feel like this again? And that's one of the major things that I counsel on and I coach on, which is the singleness and understanding that singleness is a circumstance or a status. Loneliness is a choice. So that means that if you're single, that just simply means that there's no one with

you. That means that that's a relationship status. But if you are lonely, that means that you are choosing not to get in community and connection with people. And I feel that many times we often only focus on the romantic relationship and we forget about all the other relationships in our lives, you know, and we realize that, yes, the romantic relationship is very important, but that's one out of a hundred relationships that you have. And so if you don't cultivate all of the other relationships, your family relationships and your relationship with your friends, relationships at work, relationships with your business, you don't cultivate those and you're only focused on cultivating your romantic relationship, then you're going to end up draining your other partner because you're trying to get everything from them as your source instead of saying that they are a resource in your life. So my focus is for singles to really practice that self-love in the sense of saying, I know who I am. I know what I bring to the table. I know what I want and what I don't want. And when you have a healthy view of that as a single, and you can get with other like-minded singles to be able to say, hey, this is what I want. This is what I like. This is what I desire. And kind of bounce that off of each other.

then you have more of a realistic expectation. So that way, when you go into a relationship, I kind of equate it to dating full. Like, you know, someone used to tell you, don't ever go to a grocery store hungry because you're going to pick up whatever, right? So we should never, we should never enter a relationship, quote unquote, hungry, which means that if we're desperate for connection, if we really need a community, if we're looking for companionship and we're starving, and we get into this relationship, we're going to end up lowering our standards. We're going to end up settling for something that is beneath our vibration. That's full of preservatives.

Exactly. Full of preservatives, GMO, like everything in there, right? Because you're hungry, you're starving, so you can pick up anything. And so I love this concept, how do we love and be loved better? It's by first and foremost, knowing myself, knowing what I want, how I want to feel. And then if I'm in a situation where I don't like the feeling and I am able to, I'm safe enough to express that I don't like this feeling or this feeling is not conducive to where I want to be. And if that person is a safe person for me, then they will adapt. And if they're not, I have a choice of kind of removing myself from that. So I definitely believe that in that opportunity that we have to kind of cultivate those relationships. I do have a question. One question. I was married and now I'm divorced and I was a long term single as well. I was single till 35 and then married an idiot.

And I was like, what? Like, well, really? And so now I'm divorced. But getting back into that mentality. Can you kind of speak a little bit about a lot of anybody that's kind of gone through a trauma or a relationship hardship? I was kind of approaching in the first part of like trying to get back to who I was, but I'll never get back there. Like, I'm not that person anymore. So can you kind of talk about a little bit like overcoming that and that journey of kind of rediscovery and why that's so important? Yeah. Well, I mean, first of all, I love what you said. I think also that a sense of wholeness and a wholeness in yourself also, as I've said in these other ways to some of the other folks who've asked questions, that it really makes you a magnet for other whole people, right? So when you're coming at dating or anything for that matter, but let's talk about dating and finding love from a place of scarcity and incompleteness, fear, which loneliness is kind of a version of, then you tend to be attracted to and attract in people at the same level of emotional health you are. So the more whole you are, the more whole the person that you're going to get involved with will be in terms of healing. What you're talking about is healing after a breakup, especially a breakup of a really difficult or toxic or traumatic relationship. It takes time. I really feel strongly that we need that time alone. You know, the old adage, the best way to get over someone is under someone else does not really apply.

doesn't help us create something better moving forward. It's about not necessarily coming back to who you were before, but coming back to the truth of yourself, sometimes for the first time. Sometimes it takes a really traumatic relationship to be that ASGE, another fucking growth experience, that wakes us up to get conscious

about what we really deserve and who we really are. Sometimes we knew who we were And we just lost our way somewhere along the line. And we ended up with someone who did us wrong or hurt us. And now either way, you either come back to yourself or you discover yourself for the first time through that healing process. And you're right that evolution of who we are is constantly evolving and changing. And we're not supposed to go backwards.

We're supposed to go forwards. But getting really clear on what are the lessons from this relationship? What was my hundred percent? That person could have been the biggest dog in the world, but I had my 100% there, even if it was turning the other cheek or refusing to see the red flags or making excuses or whatever else it was. What is it that was beautiful about this relationship and this person? Not everyone, even if we can't stand them and are furious at them, everybody has redeeming qualities, and some of those qualities attracted to you, that person, in the first place. So what was it about this person that really did work for me and a potential partner? They loved to dine out and I'm a complete foodie.

So that worked great for me, you know, whatever it was. So getting really clear and what you really want, what worked and didn't work in the relationship, where your 100 percent is. And then when there was serious damage done to really work with someone, ideally to heal that. And more often than not, when we are betrayed, abused, mistreated in love, it's not the first time we've been at that rodeo. We have felt that disenfranchisement, pain, rejection, abandonment, gaslighting, betrayal much earlier in life. And so those things that happen in relationship are an opportunity for us to heal the core wounds of what happened in our earlier life. I see breakups as beautiful opportunities to reconfigure your life, reconfigure what works and doesn't work, so that you become an even more whole expression of yourself moving forward, and then are getting much clearer about what you want and from love, and what's important to you. I hope that answers your question, Lavania. That was beautiful.

This is Abdul speaking. I don't have a question. I have a comment. How to love? How to be loved is to be myself. It's to love the wrong people, get my heart broken, accept there is no heal. I will be free the same every time. And that leads to love myself.

I'm very grateful for every time my heart is broken because I have discovered through that I never loved myself. When I love myself, others love me. That's it. Oh, that's beautiful. And that's what it's all about, because the more you really claim your own worth, and you know, when we talk about love yourself, we're not talking about becoming self-obsessed narcissists, right? We're talking about really claiming what is beautiful and whole and pure in ourselves and what is really lovable about ourselves and our unique connection to the oneness and to all that is and the unique expression of the universe that each of us is. And the more that you step into that and claim that and bathe in it and connect with that, not only does everything in your life get better for you in terms of your experience of it, but you also become a magnet for other people who are doing the same thing. And you become, there's nothing more attractive than a person who feels whole and is in integrity with themselves and understands how lovable they are.

You know, those people are freaking love magnets. So it just pulls more love towards you. You know, and like John Lennon says, the love you have to live is equal to the love you have to give. Is that the lyric? I can never remember, but basically they're the same, right? The more we can be in love and feel how lovable we are, the more we can share love. And the more we share love, the more we feel the love.

And that's what we're all about. May I add a small thing, which I have realized now that I'm a man who always have money issue. And I'm always, when I love someone, I really love this person. and I can do anything for that person and all coming from my heart after many many experiences and after loving myself I'm not feeling the same with anyone I don't have the feeling I need someone to to connect mentally and I feel like my heart is not giving the I'm talking about the romantic relationship yeah it's like that's it i reached the end um no you haven't reached the end what it is about what i feel like like before i was taken directly from my heart now it's coming

to the filter coming to my mind then it's going to heart and it's very few amount of feeling if You got what I'm trying to say? Yeah, but I think part of it is probably that in the past, when you weren't really in alignment with how worthy of love you are, you gave your heart away to the wrong people and in the wrong places and to people who didn't really hold with the reverence you deserve your heart or your love. and you are not going to be attracted to or want to, or be, you know, not out of fear, just not interested. Your, your, your pool of people that you're going to be interested in

loving and being loved by when you are conscious and aligned with how lovable you are is going to be a lot smaller. Someone who doesn't recognize how worthy of love they are and isn't in integrity with that will have a much larger pool of potential partners and will give their love away, you know, to people who don't deserve it or won't honor it. And so it is true that it takes longer to find those people to open your heart to, you know, and that the pool is a little bit smaller, but it's much greater quality pool of people. So even though it's smaller, the people who do come into your life, who are going to be a frequency match to you are going to be of a much higher caliber and much more likely to hold

the love you have to offer them with reverence. And you are not going to give it away willy-nilly because that's not who you are anymore. So it is a difference, but I don't think it's a difference that's worse. I think it's actually better in the long run. It's just different. This has been really beautiful sharing with you all and listening to all your questions and your wisdom. I hope that you'll all join me this weekend on Saturday at 4.30. If you go to unplugged.com, you can sign up. I think it's only like 20 bucks or something, but it's at 4.30 p.m. on Saturday, 4.30 p.m. Pacific.

I'm doing a class with Unplugged Studios. So if you go to unplugged.com, you can find it there. Just look for Dr. Laura Berman on meditation for better sex. I'm going to teach you how to use guided meditation, energy, and body awareness to take your sex life to the next level. You know, we're all in this together, learning to love and be loved better. So we'll be back. We'll dive more deeply into it. And I'll see you all next week.

I'll send you lots of love in the meantime.