Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Call Me Tum Tum" (w/ Nico Santos & Zeke Smith)

Episode Date: July 15, 2020

In this big, HUGE, episode Bowen and Matt are joined by Superstore's Nico Santos and Survivor legend Zeke Smith! They have a moment with the CBS Diversity Showcase! Plus a moment about Zeke, Bowen, and Matt's former minor league gay improv team Judith! They have a moment with Survivor and how the show took on Zeke being outed as trans on the show. Nico and Bowen have a moment about Asian representation in film and television. So many GREAT moments! And of course Nico's experiences filming Crazy Rich Asians! Nico and Zeke's house hunting woes! No sharing of ice creams until further notice! And, of course, go watch the documentary film about trans representation in media, Disclosure, which is on Netflix now. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba?

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. podcasts. biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Oh, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling.

How are you feeling? I'm feeling gaslit. Wait, hold on. Can we just say stop it all? Because I asked how are you feeling, and you were already saying I'm feeling dot, dot, dot at the same time. I had felt the psychic query, the waves from you. You were going to ask me you were gonna check in with me and i had i had my answer raring to go well what is it how are you there's

a video right now that is circulating on twitter of mariah carey i hate it already no no no i mean it's fun it involves mariah so do you okay i'm like more so there's So there's a video of Mariah on a step and repeat with a raven-haired woman in her middle age. Okay. Taking a selfie with her. And then Mariah grabs this woman by the shoulders and throws her to the side. What? It very clearly looks like this woman is Diane Warren, but the person who posts this video tweeted the caption, the text, the way she threw Ghislaine.

So now there's this. The way she threw Ghislaine. So now there's this. Oh, my God. Now there's this firestorm over whether or not whether or not this woman is galene maxwell or diane warren and people are like wait that's diane warren and diane warren is getting up in the replies herself come on you know she's gonna get involved no and this is what she's saying she's replying to almost every tweet that's like that's diane warren she's replying to

all of them saying no it's not if there's anyone that I'm positive has a Google alert for her own name, it's Diane Warren. Of course. But Diane is gaslighting all of us. And I never thought she would gaslight me to this level. But then I thought, you know what? No, she was gaslighting us when, you know, we were talking about why did you do that? And A Star is Born. We're like.

She famously said that's a real good song that was intended to be good. It was intended to be a good pop song. And it's, of course, why did you do that? And it's garbage. So I have come to the conclusion that she is an anarchist and oh my god yeah oh yeah i just watched the david foster documentary and she is in it a couple times and i'm like diane what are you doing i mean diane has good things to say but david foster that man uh we could say a controversial figure so you watched the david foster documentary i watched the david foster documentary can we briefly discuss before we yeah sort of segue into an we could say a controversial figure. So you watched the David Foster documentary. I watched the David Foster documentary. I did too.

Can we briefly discuss before we sort of segue into an actual important documentary on Netflix that people should watch? Yes. But which we've seen, but we also like sort of in the last few days I've had, I guess, time for the garbage that is the David Foster documentary. What were your thoughts?

Well, I mean, there's a lot of great Netflix docs. There's the Walter Mercado documentary that is excellent. There's a lot of great Netflix docs. There's the Walter Mercado documentary that is excellent. There's a lot of great stuff, but we're talking about the David Foster. We're talking about the David Foster. We're talking about the trash. Well, it was even more so than I would say 5'2",

or what was the Taylor one? Oh, Miss Americana. It was more, it was like, it was like self-PR. I can't put this in more elegant terms but it's like to end the end the documentary on him talking about his foundation like come on and then i i think what you're trying to say is it's clearly coming from an egomaniac i mean and we we we've known that he's an egomaniac he's an egomaniac but then to see it all sort of live out in this way and then when you cut and then when you talk to the daughters when you see the daughters talk he's an egomaniac, but then to see it all sort of live out in this way,

and then when you talk to the daughters, when you see the daughters talk about him, you're like, oh my God, like he was a terrible father. Well, here's the thing. They don't think he was a terrible father, and they make a point to say that

you feel that they're being gaslit by their own father. It's not gaslighting. It's just, I mean, the equivalent would just be Stockholm Syndrome, I guess, where it's like, you just sort of want to erase the trauma that your parents have inflicted on you.

You're saying a lot. I want to say if they believe that their father is good and they have a good relationship with him, I'm going to go ahead and believe them that he's a good father. Do I think he's a good husband? And do I think that there's a lot going on with Catherine McPhee? Yeah, I do. We got to talk about Catherine. Well, I don't know. Catherine, I've always i've

always been suspicious of that one always no i yeah i'm not suspicious of katherine i think that she's chaotic good in the world but i will say with katherine mcphee i would say to her she should watch the documentary because at the end when they're like what about this marriage and she's like you know we're gonna make it work. We talk. And then they ask him, he says the whole time how he's a quote unquote runner. And they're like, are you done running? And he's like, nope.

And then it cuts to her being like, we talk a lot more than I think he did with his ex-wives. And then I'm like, girl, I don't know. This be sounding opaque. This be sounding opaque. It's actually a rule of culture. Number 22. Catherine Foster, this be sounding opaque.

Now, I did want to, before we bring our incredible guests in. I'm so excited. I did want to just briefly say, not to bring it down, but I have not been able to stop thinking about Naya Rivera. And I just want to say that she was such a capital T talent. And she was such an amazing, not even just on Glee, like in the interviews that you watch of her. You can tell by the way her castmates and all her friends spoke about her. She obviously was like such a force and i stayed watching glee for so many years after i think it was like sure like it's like a show to watch

because of her she took i mean let's just say this the character of santana lopez should be on the list of the top 200 the character of sant Santana Lopez and Brittany S. Pierce, like those were written to be, like in the pilot, and for a lot of the first season, like those were not written to be big roles, right? Literally they were extensions of Diana Agron's character. They were just like her backups. But then they fully sort of formed on their own

and then it's Naya and yeah, incredible. It's very clear that that character became what it became which was really one of the leads of the show by the time it was over because naya was so talented and you know she sang the shit out of some of the songs she covered like that honestly is still the definitive mind by taylor swift is the naya rivera version and i'll say that the cover supersedes the original. Yes. And also she covered Songbird by Fleetwood Mac on the Fleetwood Mac episode.

That was amazing. She did a really good mashup of, it was like an Adele mashup of Someone Like You and Rumor Has It that she sang with Amber Riley. That was gorge. And I'm heartbroken that she is not with us anymore. And I just wanted to sort of give a shout out because Naya Rivera was the real deal. And I feel like there was, you know, not everyone that's succeeding in this business is truly talented. And she was truly fucking talented.

And it's a shame. She just, but she like played this role that like was such a model for queer youth. And speaking of models for queer youth. I mean, come on. We have our guests. Yes, indeed. We do have do have our and we are placing the pressure on them actually we can talk about this but we are placing the pressure on them to be to be role models for queer youth and only be moral paragons for the rest of their lives and only be that for the rest of their lives and not act out of step well that's the their first task is to do that and also sort

of take this out of the depths of sadness where I've put this podcast episode in talking about Nyra there. So they have a huge task ahead on the episode is to sort of uphold this thing as queer power couple idols and also sort of turn it around from the talk of death. So we're stacking the deck, but if there's people that I know could just nail this,

it is them. So we have them both deck, but if there's people that I know could just nail this, it is them. It's them. So we have them both, which is huge. I mean, because there's so much to talk to both of them about because they're both iconic. I'll just say for one of them, who we know from our days in the improv group, Judith, hon.

We gotta talk about this. We have to talk about our transgressions, Matt, you and I. I actually do want to talk about this. We've got to talk about this we have to talk about our transgressions matt you and i i actually do want to talk about this we we've got to talk about it because because nico nico santos who was one of the guests he said to me in the beginning he was like yeah i've heard a lot about you i'm like okay cool yeah from my days as a bitch 25 year old on an improv group which was fully like me just coming in with all my insecurities about being bad at improv i'm sure i represented myself gorgeously um but anyway despite the despite the judith of it all um our one of our guests went on to become

a truly iconic cast member on survivor and i will say icons a game changer even hello and in fact such a game changer that he was invited to be on the season called Game Changers. But prior to that was truly one of the movers and shakers of the season. Millennials versus Gen X, which I believe to be one of the best modern seasons. I think it's up there with David and Goliath. I always say, you know, if you're watching in the last 10 seasons, I always say, you know, San Juan del Sur. I like I really like I like Korong and uh a lot not seeing korong yet it's really good i i think it's great and then millennials gen x which is has our guest and then

the next season was game changers and talk about iconic crazy shit that happened on that season which which we will talk about but i mean has really he's really just taken his place in the canon and also features in to the incredible documentary that's out on netflix right now that i am so excited for everyone to hear more about and to watch which if you haven't already which is called disclosure trans lives on screen which i watched again this morning just unbelievable and we'll talk more about it and it's it's about trans representation in hollywood really from the beginning of the hollywood film industry and it's incredibly eye-opening and i'm so excited but he is only

one half of our guests today our other guests sitcom icon film icon you know you know him you love him from superstore from crazy rich asians one time in la a couple years ago me him joel can booster were just in our little tuxes key keying sandra oh was yards away and it just felt very powerful it felt like a lot of aligned energy um and it was just and we were just three three gay asian men who worked for nbc um and it felt it felt it felt great it felt like some some reboot of some kind like a prime time whores prime time whores um so we're so excited to have our guests and they're together in their beautiful living room with their wall art we'll talk about oh my god look at my bare ass wall compared to their wall we gotta talk about about walls. I'm fucked up.

So please welcome into your ears... Nico Santos and Zeke Smith! Hi! Hi! Hey girls. I love having four people in the pod. It feels nice. It feels good.

This feels right. This feels right. How are you guys? Good. We are in the midst of trying to buy a house. And we just got outbid on the house that we loved. And now every house looks like garbage. And we just wish we had $75 million to buy a house with.

But unfortunately, our budget is a little lower than that. It is. a house with. But unfortunately, our budget is a little lower than that. Can I just say, I thought the pandemic would sort of affect, would be to our advantage buying a home. No, absolutely not. It is like Hunger Games out there.

It is, I want to bang my head on a wall. But the prices have stayed the same. The same. Because everyone who, like us, is still renting wants to buy. Yes. But people who own, especially people with kids, they don't want to move right now.

So there's like three houses come on the market every day, and we just sit in front of the computer and hit refresh. And we're like, it's been on the market for an hour. We're going to lose it. We got to go. We got to see it now. Oh, my gosh. I've been refreshing Zillow like it's grinder just like is there somebody new is there somebody new is there somebody oh my gosh i have to say this just happened to my boyfriend

he also put a bid in on a house and got outbid and he's looking right now so i have i've been intimately familiar with this struggle i feel my heart goes out what is the scarcity thing that's going on right now because it's like because the just the describing refreshing zillow hits the same spot in my brain when i think about refreshing la county covid testing like sites i'm like there's like nobody has anything right now it's crazy and yet you would think that like things the circumstances would change what's what so what does this mean for you guys next i mean are you guys just you guys are you guys are just working with a bigger budget hopefully or no no that's i don't know well i mean we are thankfully

uh we have a little bit of time um i decided uh you know we decided to look i mean our our lease is not up till till for a while so we we have our lease is not up for a while. So we have some time to search for a home, which is great. Because I thought we were like, well, what are we going to do if we find a house and we have to pay a mortgage and rent? We can't get out of lease. But it looks like this is going to be a longer battle search than we thought. So it may be down to the wire. So I'm so glad that we started early good another

part of it too right is that you in order to see houses it's more difficult obviously because in order to go into the new space that's like a whole process yeah so there's no more in-person open houses you have to like talk to your realtor and your realtor has to call someone else and they have to call a third party then you have to sign a document and it's it's a whole rigmarole um yeah i might i feel bad that but you got but i here's what i know i know you'll find a house yes i know the two of you combined will harness the powers and find a home well listen i mean these are champagne problems yeah truly we're very very fortunate to be in a position to be able to to buy a home yeah but also we had the conversation this morning of like oh don't you just hate it when a house has a pool but it's just like a little pool and not a big and you were like hold on a second and like we're garbage we're garbage we need to stop talking like

these yeah but it's not like you haven't put in the work. You've done five years on Superstore, hun. I have been saving. I've been saving for a very long time. And I have been going to, you know, putting in my time. I've done a lot of shitty open mics to be able to be where I'm at. Yes. Yes, you're right.

You guys deserve in-ground pool. In-ground hot tub, for that matter. Yeah. You guys deserve it all. Put it in the ground. None of this above-ground nonsense. No, and you know what? Zeke is, I mean,

if Nico has done enough shitty open mics to deserve this, Zeke has done enough crazy bar basement improv shows with me and Matt to deserve this as well. Yes, that's true. We've spent a lot of time in the mildew-filled Triple Crown basement. Mildew-filled.

Rest in peace. You brought it back around to Judith. To Judith, yes. Which is how we met. Let's clear the air. Nico, I hope you don't mind if we just talk for a second about Judith. So Judith was, I would say,

what the gays in our, I guess, extended circle would consider, were we sort of like the minor league gay improv team? Or at least they thought so? Oh, yes. So there were two gay improv teams at the time. One was called Fancy Man. Fancy Man.

And they definitely thought they were better than us. Yes, they did. And I would say, like, if you were to rate us on the scale of, like, who is the more traditionally attractive team, they were definitely that. And we were, like, if you were to rate us on the scale of like, who is the more traditionally attractive team? They were definitely that. And we were like the schlubby gays. But we weren't. We had hotties on the team.

Here's the thing. We got people on our team that are on television now. Yeah, that's true. But here's the thing. So fuck them. Well, Henry Russell Bergstein is a very successful casting director. We love HRB.

Yes. I think we... Judith has had a better track record. Judith, let's just, let's just, let's just get shallow

for a second. Judith had Zeke Smith, Danny Lempert, Jason Sweeten, Arjun, Sheth, Jose,

me, Matt. I had such a crush on Jose. Jay, Jay, I, i okay and i full-on and nico i'm sorry to say this i full-on had harbored a little mini crush on zeke well that we always like teased like oh when are we gonna like make out with each other but i think we were such too scared little babies to actually we were at the time but we shared like lingering hugs. Yeah. Yeah. Especially, you bitch! That didn't come up at the NBC party

with Sandra O. Feet Away. And I revealed it now for everyone to hear. I think we were too busy like trying to like catch glances at Drake and not get caught at that party.

Yes. That's right. Drake was there. So you were there too. Of course you were there Zeke was there also remember Rowan

I made you I made you follow me around and try to get me to get introduced to Sandra Oh did we did we did we do that

it did not happen because I got so shy and so scared but it's okay because eventually after that we went to John Chu's house

and she was there after the Critics Choice Awards yeah which Nico was nominated for Nico has been nominated two years in a row

for Critics Choice Awards he's a critical favorite critical favorite was it 2017 2018 no it was 2018 2019

2020 ooh come on new come on come on now recency bias did you end up meeting Sandra yeah so we I met her at Ooh, come on, new. Come on, now. Recency bias. Did you end up meeting Sandra?

Yeah, I met her at John Chu's house, and she was very lovely, but she and Zeke actually were having a much better connection. And even, it's so weird, because I'm good friends with John, and there are these like famous people that would come to his house but i i don't know about you but every time i'm around like really successful famous people i always feel like the freshman at the senior party yeah yeah same i don't know how to act i act weird and people probably think i'm i'm a stupid bitch or mean or whatever. Because I just act like, I just, yeah, I just become awkward.

No, I don't believe it. I don't know what to do with myself. Yeah, you're certainly coming off as a real stupid bitch, mean, awkward person in this interaction. No, you are lovely. But believe it or not, I was actually talking to Sandra about Bowen.

Because it was before Sandra Oh had done SNL. SNL. And she was like weighing it with every, because Ken Jeong was there. And I think Ken has done it before. So I think it, I mean, this was like Asian Central Party and I was just like the happy little white guy there. But, you know, she was like talking about doing SNL

and she was like, you know, I know Bowen's there, so it'll be pretty cool. And I was like, oh, actually like, you know, I was on an's there, so it'll be pretty cool. And I was like, oh, actually, like, you know, I was on an improv team with Bowen back in the day. That's so funny. And our team name was Judith. And, like, the thing about Judith is when we didn't have all the guys on stage, we'd be like, hi, we're Judith,

but tonight we're Judith Light. Ah! Wow, I love that. And she was in, and then we went off talking i know we were under the influences of many substances so we became great friends but i don't think she'll ever remember no zeke i was about to say that you probably pushed her you nudged her in the direction of doing snl if you were like that's what i was i was trying to say like you know she was worried about the writer's room and i was like well you've got you know you've got bowen and you've got uh julio and yeah you know i i i named other people um who are

you know sudi i was like yeah they're these really like young cool like woke awesome funny people who are going to be able to write comedy that you will excel in she had a great episode she had a great episode that was that was to date still my busiest episode because i wrote three things and i was i was like i ran off i was in it with her debut it was and i was just like and i have not had as busy of a week since so i i'm indebted to zeke in a lot of ways and many more ways than one but wait can we can we close the loop on this judith conversation because sure things broke down over the course of time. And then I think my priorities, I was just busy with work.

And Matt and I were in a sketch group together. This is not an excuse, but this is to say that me and my hangups about my own free time and being stretched too thin. I was like, I don't think I can do it anymore. And I very inartfully sent an email the day of a meeting that you guys, that we were all having one day. And I was just like, guys, I think I phased myself out of the group. And I think this email is just confirming that I probably can't be in the group anymore. And I like have like, it keeps me up at night.

Honestly, honestly, like a professional mishandling of mine, I would say. Several, but like one of the onesling of mine, I would say. One of several, but like one of the ones that like really like, like weighs on me. Matt's making a face. Well, no, because I don't even think you really have anything to apologize for.

I think it's more me. I feel like I do. I think it's more me because I was such a cunt. And I honestly like, Okay, wow. I think that like, That word. Well, it's really the only,

I think that my insecurities about my abilities as an improviser had me sort of like um acting like i didn't like sort of when i was at rehearsal like not having great energy and that had nothing to do with with and with anybody but all had entirely to do with me not thinking i was good or funny but also we're speaking a lot for what i don't what was your take on the situation zeke well uh y'all be honest be honest i i i didn't really care that y'all left the team because what happened was the team began with jason sweet and i who's a very lovely guy and a hilarious sketch writer. The sweetest. His last name wouldn't indicate he's very sweet.

Sweeten is the sweetest. We just wanted to put together a team to have fun because we didn't have a group of gay friends post-college. So we just gathered people together. But then there sort of was like this invisible power struggle in the team where I won't name names, but there were like two guys who I think y'all know who I'm talking about decided that like they wanted to be in charge of the team.

And that this was the most interesting thing that they were doing. And so it became very serious and there were rules and meetings and all of that jazz yes and then i think what y'all figured out and when what i later followed was okay like being on this improv team that does shows in basements is maybe not like the best use of my time if i want to advance in my career um so you know i i am i have like essentially been kicked out of Judith because before I was outed on television, you know, I had this, you know, I had been outed on the island and then had this like time period to come home to disclose to people. And as you both know, like I did not disclose to Judith that I was trans. Right, right. Like that was not anything anyone knew. And then there was speculation on, like, the Survivor Reddit that I might be trans that one of the other team members read

and shared with everybody else still active on the team. So Varner read that Reddit post? I did not know that. No, no, no, not Varner, babe. He's talking about someone on Judith. Oh, on Judith. I'm so sorry. I see, I see.

So I sort of got, like, you know, I got outed on the island, which they didn't know about. And then before I had a chance to like tell everybody in a more intimate way, I got outed. And the people who were involved in that are still like the central members of the, because they, I don't know if they do improv, but they do brunches and go to Fire Island and whatnot. So like they kept the team and I was sort of like, I'm going to hang out with Jason and Daniel. But all in all, I'm just, you know.

I just remember the energy not being great. And I think that I came in after Bowen, and so I only really knew Bowen very well. This is before Jason and I were on a mod team together. So it was before I had really gotten to know Jasonason and like um i guess what i want to say to you is that had like any any sort of behaviors that you sensed from like myself or bowen like i hope that can be in like the improv past because i know that it kind of all sort of got weird but like i feel badly whenever i think about like any of my life from ages like 20 to 25 like the way i acted when i was trying to like establish myself um not that it was like

actually monstrous all of us have acted monstrously all of us were like assholes until we were 28 years old like yes they're trying to fight to be on a ucb team when you actually think about what it was it was like us like having drama like on between eight gay men like trying to do make-em-ups and try to get on a team to do a comedy in a basement it's just so funny now looking back yes yeah thinking about the reward it seems it seems so important when you're first like starting out your career yeah and trying to build something. Like literally anything you could do to move the needle forward seems like the most important, most detrimental thing you could do.

And it makes you crazy. It makes you crazy. Because it's a structured, I mean, talking specifically about the UCB sort of power hierarchy, it's a structured proving ground. i feel like and we can talk about and people have had this conversation before but like have we well i'm saying i'm pivoting to nico and i'm giving you the stand-up yeah where it's like you know that's a little bit more autonomous in the way that you improve your skills as a stand-up certainly with like with

within a community but it's it's it's a solitary thing and the process is solitary. But Nico, you probably experienced a cutthroatness that was... Oh, stand-up is so much worse. I mean, yeah, but what was your experience with it? Well, I feel like the only thing about stand-up

that I really loved is that, of course, there are politics involved with the club scene and how you're going to work in a club and how you're going to advance the club and how to get to know the bookers and all that. But the thing that I really loved about it is that it is this thing where it didn't matter that I was the femi-faggot on the scene, the femi-gayson on the scene. As long as I got up there and crushed,

that was undeniable to everybody else. Yes. So all those bros and boys, comedy boys, who were just eye-rolling me and giving me their shade, couldn't say shit to me because I did better than them at the open mics. And so that was the only thing that really sort of kept me going is that, you know, like, they may

think I'm just a stupid gay guy, but the fact of the matter is I'm getting up in these open mics and these showcases, and I'm doing really well, and the proof is in the pudding because the audience is laughing. So that was the only thing that kept me going. Beautiful, powerful.

Was it from doing stand-up that you were asked to audition for the diversity showcase? Yeah. You know, my manager really encouraged me. You know, I had moved to LA and I was doing standup and I was doing, I was doing the panel for Chelsea Lately at the time. And I was kind of getting real traction in my in my stand-up career and then he encouraged me to to try it for the diversity showcase and i was like well i'm not i don't do sketch uh i'm not an actor like i don't really know it's like just just try it out you know you're in la people audition that's what they do so i kind of took my bits and turned them into

sketch characters because i already do characters in my stand-up. And at first they were like, you're really funny, but we hate your haircut. I had this really stupid, this really swooping sort of gay Hitler haircut. She had a cascade. Oh, Lord. It was like shaved and severe on the sides and then like a swoop. It just felt like this. Every time we touch, Tuscada.

It was very gay. Bowen. And CBS hated it. And they were like, you're going to be a writer. And I was like, okay, well, whatever. Just get my foot in the door.

So I got in as a writer. And then the other Asian guy in the cast dropped out because they got a writing job Andrew Law I don't know if you know Andrew Law so he was in the cast he got a job for Seth Meyers I believe at the time

so he had to drop out and so they were like let's plug in Nico in the parts that Andrew played and then that's how it kind of became a cast. And you popped off in the showcase. And then,

and then I had that one sketch that was really racist. Of course. But funny. And, and that's kind of how I, yeah, sort of like

my shining moment in Showcase. Yeah. I mean, God, like, isn't that part of, isn't that part of like,

I'm going to, I'm going to be specific to like an asian experience where like upward mobility is coupled with like moments of like oh this sucks like someone like you know do you know what i mean i am very grateful to the cbs diversity showcase yes i would not be where i am like it opened so many doors for me. I made so many connections. But I feel like I sold a piece of my soul by doing that showcase because I did a lot of things that I did not want to do. And I was asked to do a lot of things that I was like, this isn't right.

But at the time, it was so weird. That was only 2014. And it was still a very different environment than what we have now. The showcase has changed now. Yeah, that's the CBS Diversity Showcase, everyone listening, just so they know what we're talking about. It's the CBS Diversity Showcase, which, as Nico was saying, has since made changes to be a better environment. The industry itself has changed so much, but at the time,

you know, I still was coming from that place where like, you better suck it up. You better do what they tell you. Yeah. Because the, the rewards that are going to come from this are, are going to be great.

And, you know, and I am benefiting from, from that experience, but absolutely. But yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it was a bittersweet pill to swallow.

Right. I mean, Bowen and I booked that showcase and then from asking people about it, decided not to do it because it was such a bad response we were getting from people that had done it. And then I think it was the year after that all of that came out about what it was like and what the culture was like. And now it has since changed a lot. And our friend Dave Mazzoni just did it last year and had a wonderful experience. So it's great to hear that it's changed.

It's a shame that it had to change because it was so awful. But I'm happy to hear that it's gotten better and obviously happy that you did it so that you can be nailing it like now yeah and i realized that my experience is very sort of unique in that you know i mean it it takes time to sort of build a career and build opportunities i just i feel like it was a combination of hard work and luck a lot of the same things that i've that i've that have been given to me that i've booked i've just been lucky in a certain regard so um i have a question for you was did john tell you to have

a british accent in the movie or was that was that a nico choice i because i think your your accent in the film is perfect. It feels real. It's real. I'm like, wait, Nico's... Wait, I don't think Nico's accent is British. When I heard you speak as you, I was like, oh. When you see Mateo,

when you see Mateo, you're like, oh, that's... Yeah, I guess that's Nico or could be an American accent. Anyway, but thank you for saying that. That means a lot. I really... No, that was a choice.

I really wanted to stay true to the book and i also like you know when i when i was developing the character i actually was was asking these questions um uh to john through my agents like do they want um a singaporean accent because the singaporean accent is very different there's that singaporean british accent it's sort of like a hybrid yes um and you know i i worked with a dialect coach to sort of land on this sort of like because because the accent i was going for you know oliver is very much like an outsider in his own family yes and and he is pretententious and wants to convey this image of, even more so,

of a wealth and class that he doesn't have because he's not as rich as the rest of his family members. So I kind of wanted this sort of like poshy, snobby accent. Yes. Achieved.

Compared to the rest of the family where there's sort of like more natural British sure tell the tell the story about you trying to speak Cantonese

and who you helped find the accent oh my god okay please so I'm on the plane

to Malaysia I booked this I booked the part I was like so excited oh my god I was like great I'm on the plane you know flying business class

thank you Warner Brothers comfort and class it was great and then I get an email saying hey here's the Cantonese line that you have to say in that scene I'm like excuse me what was that? Cantonese line?

Okay, great. No, no, yeah, I can totally do that. I can totally do that. And they sent me an audio file of what the Cantonese line is. I'm like, I don't speak Cantonese. You know, I'm Filipino. So I learn it phonetically.

I listen to it over and over and over and over again and then after working in it for hours I also had the realization that the dialect coach that they have is this older Chinese guy who's sort of gruff and

Oliver is femme sort of you know classy and I'm like, I can't say it the way he's saying it because it's going to sound like an old butch trucker if I say it this way. So I had to go to my makeup artist who spoke Cantonese

who was very queenie. I was like, girl, do me a favor and say this for me. And then I had him record the lines and then I listened to it, listened to it, listened to it hours, practiced it. The scene comes. It is the scene where we're making dumplings. The entire family's there. We have Ama and then Michelle Yeoh, the beautiful Michelle Yeoh at the table. And then my line, it's my turn to speak and I was like this is my moment I've been rehearsing for so long

worked so hard say it Nico say it I say it and then there's a silence and then Michelle Yo just looks at me and goes what are you saying and I just turn bright white and I'm just like

I don't know I don't know oh my god I don't speak Cantonese I'm Filipino I'm so sorry I'm so sorry

but she wasn't like antagonizing you she was just being like huh that's exactly what it was

it was like bitch what yeah it was I was mortified mortified ohified oh she can like cut you off at the knees with anything just with like a glance or like oh my god well especially in that character yeah like hello she she was so amazing and and just wonderful like she could tell at a

certain point that I was really nervous as one would be filming a movie like that. That's a huge movie. With big stars and a legend like her. And she knelt down and whispered to my ear just before we started rolling. She was like, just relax, relax. And grabbed my shoulder.

She's like, just relax. And I was also like, I will. Yeah, that is the iconic legend, Michelle Yeoh. I mean, we talk about her often on this podcast. Amazing and brilliant and gracious and caring. She was so good in that movie. She was so good in that movie. And whenever an actress brings her own jewelry

into the production, that's how you know that you're dealing with a legend. Yes. I mean, and let me just say, we also saw jewelry that she wore that wasn't in the movie. Oh, yeah. That we were like, oh, oh, girl. Uh-huh.

One thing that I feel like gets lost in like, because there's so much to say about Crazy Rich Asians. So much. People don't talk about Gemma Chan. Gemma. We saw it together don't talk about Gemma Chan. Gemma! We saw it together. Bone and I saw it together. And I think I looked over to Bone and I was like,

that is the most beautiful woman I've ever seen in my entire life. And such a good actress. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the sequel... Is Astrid focused. It's more to do with Astrid. I have not read that. I mean, like, I guess. Nico can't talk about it, though.

I can't talk. Listen, I haven't seen a script. Zeke, can you talk about it? I haven't seen a script. I can. I know all the dirt you want to know um so i think the thing is that the first movie departs pretty far from how the first book ends right and um okay that i can't say but what i can say i'm starting to filter like yeah wow it's like it's almost like you have an nda but i think i think the idea is that

they're just now going to do uh what they want with who's available at the time there is to film like once we can film again i see yeah i see i think that's that's the big the big push forward i will i think i might get in trouble for saying this, but I met with John before pandemic hit. Bowen is the tease biller. No, no, no. But he showed me the first number in the Heights. I'm so jealous.

It's incredible. Of course it is. And I'm so sad that people people aren't gonna be able to see it for another summer for another year but john oh my god is he just the best the best so nice that i had met him once before and then we ran into him on the street outside of an ice cream shop remembered you gave me he yeah he knew it well he remembered that i was the boyfriend but then he had um a speculoos like ice cream and he gave me a bite from his spoon from his cup so i could try the ice cream you know what he's a sharer that's the best i'm just some like rando guy and he's like here put your

germs on my ice cream you can break people into two groups you can share my ice cream right off the cone or you cannot and i prefer to be in the former group. Let's all share our ice creams. Of course, now during COVID, please everyone stay home and stay inside. No sharing of ice creams. But in general. Yes. In general.

Once the vaccines come through, let's all lick each other's cones. Yes. And with that, we are going to take... Oh, girl. Amen. Yes. We're going to take just the quickest break, and then we're going to talk about Disclosure. So we'll be right back. The Real Housewives of New York City

are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night Rebecca Minkoff? Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy.

What? You told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City, all new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes.

I'm a dude, you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them. And we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of types of dudes are there, Gronk? We got studs, wizards.

We got freaks. Or dudes dude. We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dudes dude?

We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere.

Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His

father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something

that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, Charlemagne the God sits down with Vice President Kamala Harris for a conversation you don't want to miss. The things that we want and are prepared to fight for won't happen if we're not active and if we don't participate. They tackle the big questions, politics, policy, and what's next for the country. Doesn't the Biden administration have to take some blame for the border, though?

Charlemagne, first thing we dropped was a bill to fix the broken immigration system, which, by the way, Trump did not fix when he was president. Don't miss this in-depth interview with Charlamagne Tha God and Vice President Kamala Harris, only on The Breakfast Club. Catch the full interview now on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we are back, in fact. And I'm so happy that we are because this movie disclosure this documentary that's on netflix now that i want everyone to watch and i i've been telling everyone about it

is unbelievable zeke do you want to talk a little bit about how you got involved what it is just like let us know sure um so disclosure trans lives on screen is a documentary that you can currently watch on Netflix flicks and please do. And once you watch it and are moved, which inevitably you will be so yes. Tell everybody, you know, about,

uh, to, to watch it. Um, we, we, we, we,

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we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we,

we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we,

we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, January, like right before things started locking down. And that was a ton of fun. We were in like the Getty, the way it works at Sundance is they turn all of like the restaurants and art galleries into press studios. So like, you're like, I'm going to Johnny's pizza to take pictures for Getty. And then I'm going to the who's a what's at art gallery to take pictures for variety, whatever it is.

So we're we're like in this pizza place and all of a sudden like uh uh the secret service walks in and is like everybody on the left side of the room needs to move to the left everybody on the right side of the room needs to move to the right and it's very calm um and then like in walks hillary clinton with her entourage with hill which was had the hillary movie yeah yeah so she like in walks hillary with her entourage. Which had the Hillary movie. Yeah. So she like in walks Hillary with her entourage and everyone is looking at her and she's like, hi, hello. Yes.

And you're like, holy shit. That's, that's Hillary Clinton. And she takes her pictures and then they, they left. And you're like, oh,

wow. It was just, it was like, Hillary Clinton just walked in. Wow. Imagine every time you've walked into a room for the past 30 years that everyone has stopped and stared at you as you walk in i yeah that's that's i mean it's hard i would imagine i i covered sundance for vulture the year prior so i was there and um it's just insane the level

of celebrity that rolls through that very small really it's a street yeah no that's what people don't get is that it's just that one like road and you're walking by and it's like oh i just walked past blythe danner yeah like strolling but you went there with the film but we went there with the film we had a really good premiere and then there were all of these plans to have a theatrical release um to package it into sort of like an educational uh thing that we could take to schools and and to workplaces to educate but then the pandemic happened and we just really wanted people to see it so it ended up on netflix released on on juneteenth which was intentional because the i would say the primary focus and

lens of the of the film is not just about how trans people have been portrayed but also about how black trans people and trans people of color um have been portrayed and how much of what we have seen uh images of trans people which are almost exclusively written by people who are not trans, how those images have really shaped and formed who and what we think trans people are, not just to like what cis people think trans people are, but how those images have informed how trans people ourselves understand ourselves. And that like, we both have work, like we trans and cis people have work to do in like, you know, untangling these images in our psyches to like understand the real lived experiences of trans people. And so I got involved in the project about three years ago.

I was at Outfest. I was at a trans panel at Outfest, which is an LGBT film festival here in LA. And Sam Fetter, the director, just had a rough cut of 20 minutes, no commentary. It was just 20 minutes of images from D.W. Griffith to Laverne Cox in Orange is the New Black. And just seeing that, just watching the images and watching how one had bled into the other. And then all of a sudden there was this abrupt little change at the end.

It was really powerful. I mean, that's the same event that Laverne Cox was at, which, you know, inspired her to become the executive producer of the film. And yeah, I love the director. He's this like great guy named Sam Fetter. And he's a buddy, a buddy of mine. We really enjoy him, but it's been, um, yeah, it's, it's been so exciting for us because the documentary has been so like well

received and so broadly received. And we just didn't know if it was just going to get buried in the Netflix algorithm and the, you know, the, the, the outpouring of, um, you know, support and, you know, the, the feeling that it's really touched people's lives of, you know, support and, you know, the feeling that it's really touched people's lives is, you know, been very exciting. We're very happy to hear it. I feel like the significance to, the connection to Juneteenth is probably rooted

in the sort of birth of a nation of it all, which is, which I think like is the seed crystal of the way that media representations affect perceptions of marginalized people to, I mean, I was going to say to a wider audience, but just within society. Because, I mean, a portrayal of a trans person, let's say a negative portrayal of a trans person will negatively affect a trans person in a way that, like, a racist portrayal of a person of color or a black person will negatively impact a black person.

I mean, I'm saying something that goes without saying, but, like, that's, I mean, yeah, trail of a person of color or a black person will negatively impact a black person i mean right i'm saying something that that goes without saying but like that's i mean yeah it does it is rooted in that kind of original struggle of media representation which is which i think the movie even like on like sort of unearthed in a way that like really struck me which is that well the more representation we have uh of trans, then in some ways, the more violence is enacted upon trans people, which is like the chilling thing of it all. I think it is like trans people have been going to the bathroom for decades now.

It's only within the past, only in the past decades. Oh, okay. Okay. Got it. It's only in the past five years that like anyone has decided to have a problem with trans people going to the bathroom. Yeah.

And that's true. With visibility does come more violence. But I think that this is like, this is an inevitable hump in any sort of struggle is, you know, if you, when you live in the shadows, yes, it's technically safer, but you're not really living at all. And as you attempt to emerge into the light, people are going to fight you. But I think what we believe is that we will win and we will no longer walk in fear. And also how much pushback you get is dependent upon other factors.

It's dependent upon are you a woman? Are you a person of color? You know, so many of those other intersectional factors play a role in the amount of violence a trans person experiences. sequence of footage that it shows and then it moves from topic to topic or genre to genre or project to project so seamlessly and then at a certain point it gets to transmasculine representation and you talk about how um transmasculine representation isn't as or just being transmasculine is not as scandalous well it's not as sexy sexy yes that might be true but it still doesn't mitigate it doesn't really it doesn't take away from the oppression of a transmas or the oppression that trans people face is split sort of whether or not you're a trans man or trans woman. Because trans women face violence and pushback because they are hyper visible. They can, you know, people, you know, they are

visibly read as trans or they are visible in the media, whereas trans men are much less visible. And also trans men, you know, it's sort of like you grow a beard and you cut your hair and nobody really thinks twice about it. Right. Um, but that does mean we, we live in, in silence in the shadows. We don't know how to find, um, other people like us, You know, you knew me when I was, you know, before I really told people that I was trans and part of that, the reason why is that I just didn't have any trans adults in my life. Like I had a couple of mentors in college who helped me transition, but once like, you know, I got to New York, I graduated from college, all of my sort of like trans stuff was in order. And I didn't know how to go about being in the world as a trans person.

And I was like, well, this is just a lot easier. People don't know that I'm trans. I feel a lot more seen when people don't know that I'm trans. But that did sort of like, you know, cause a part of me to be put on the back burner for a very long time. Well, people say representation matters so much that it almost loses its impact. We are the Representation Matters household. I mean, yes. We talk about it at least once every day.

Yeah, but when you see this documentary, you will understand on a whole new level why representation matters. Because as you were saying saying when you're growing up trans as everyone and there's so many amazing people that are featured in this documentary but as everyone makes clear because there is no one to look when you are the only example that's the example and when repeatedly those examples are i mean even in the quote-unquote great films that have been nominated for oscars or the portrayals of trans people have been oscar nominated so it's almost like saying to the viewer like this was capital g good and this is what is aspirational about you know being trans or how how you treat a trans person and you see broken down in documentary, no one piece of media has really ever gotten it right.

Because there's, and even the things like Boys Don't Cry where there is so much great about the film, they completely erase the black man that was killed alongside Brandon. And so it's still, even because there's so few examples, those are the examples that we have. And that's why representation matters, because not only is a general audience watching that, but trans kids are watching that, trans people are watching that. And so as you were saying, it really influences the psyche and how they see themselves i remember even being a cis white gay kid and thinking i would die but whether by suicide or aids because that's what i was told you know

what i mean so i can't even imagine like only seeing something like the silence of the lamps you know what i mean like while it's an in quote unquote incredible film oscar nominated it still was a depiction of a trans person that was a serial killer. And because there's so few examples of trans people on screen, people see that and they think, well, that must be what trans people are. And it sounds crazy now, but that's the reality. And the film does an incredible job of showing that and making people understand that yeah and i think um so jen richards is this genius incredible incredible she's incredible incredible um and she has this this line in the documentary which is like the way we fix this is we just have

more because if you have more trans representation that is like ideally written directed and performed by trans people then like when someone does something shitty you know a piece that has like a shitty trans character it won't matter as much because it will be diluted by the rest of the good representation exactly absolutely and i just it's so it really is emotional like when when they get to the point of the documentary when you see the credits of orange is the new black start to come on like the opening credits the iconic opening credits that we all remember so well from the first time we started watching it on netflix um because you realize like you know while it was about a woman's prison you know what i mean and like so even with that there's like you take the you take the bad. We still got really one of the first like humane, like fully rounded representations of a trans person.

And it, it wasn't portrayed by a straight actor. You know, it was portrayed authentically by a trans person and just how huge that was. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

That's what I meant. So it was the trans role was not portrayed by a cis actor. And even with with the candace kane and dirty sexy money of it all like the fact like how soul crushing is it does it have to be to like get all amped up to watch like your tv debut or just like your network tv debut and then to have them lower your voice by octaves it's like oh my god wait a minute like even after you do the job and even after you're like on set and like that's a fraud environment where you're like making sure you do a good job the camera's on you it's your it's you know it's it's your coverage you do it and i'm sure like she like was going through a million different emotions in the production of that but after the

fact after you wrap someone else can still get their hands in there and fuck it up i don't know it's like yeah a betrayal A betrayal of the highest order. And to not even get a phone call. No. Like a heads up. Just like, this is happening. Totally. Speaking of betrayals, I don't know.

Is this a dumb segue? Well, I just want to talk about, okay, you've talked to death about this, I'm sure, Zeke. But speaking of disclosure, I do you how do you look back on this now i mean now that you have even more distance from it than you were talking about so first of all i almost feel bad that like zeke survivor experience is boiled down to this thing that happened and and and i because zeke you are an unbelievable strategic survivor player and that needs to be and you fucking know that. And he went after Sandra Diaz Twain and he did not miss.

I am the original Queen Slayer. You are. And I want to talk more about that. But Bowen is asking about Jeff Varner's outing of you. Sure, yes. And just like what that, because it is really it's an iconic moment in television history for lgbt people i was wondering if that was ever like discussed as being part of the film because i was kind of surprised to see that it wasn't included

yeah so uh there i think there was like a segment about my being outed in in the film until like one of like the later cuts, it was one of the last things cut. And I haven't seen it, but some arguments should have been in the film. I feel, I feel like it was missing. I,

you know, I'm trying not to be a diva about these things. Cause it's for the community. But, but I, like I mentioned, the director is a very close friend of mine and he was explaining that, you know, sort of the significance of my time on survivor is that, you know,

much like in other media, the trans person is outed. But in my instance, people didn't, you know, vomit or have a violent reaction. In fact, everybody like stood up and defended me. And the, the bad person was not the trans person who did not disclose their gender history. It was the person who outed me. And yeah. So like the focus was not so much on the trans,

like, and that's true. Like my, my trans story on survivor was more about like, Oh, Hey, everybody rallied around me more than it was like Zeke got outed and damn, he found 17 idols and triumphed and won the show.

Because that's not what happened. But yeah, so I guess to put some context in, I was on Survivor about three years ago. I did two seasons back to back. So I did one and then two weeks later, I went back and did another one. And in the midst of that second season i was outed as transgender and that i was transgender made global headlines when it aired um and as to how i feel about it i don't know it's weird like a lot of survivor it just sort of feels like a fever dream. It feels like this thing I'm pretty disconnected from. Um, but I, I guess I sort of feel two ways about it. One is that like,

I, I am very proud and I will always be very proud of how much of an impact that moment made in the lives of so many trans kids and their parents. Um, and I get a lot of emails from kids and their parents and those always are super meaningful. And I also get a chance to talk to people who I don't think had an opinion one way or the other on trans people and now are like, oh, I have an understanding of what trans people are and I would like um he had to go meet with this new commanding officer and he was like oh god the commanding officer wants to meet with a trans guy this is going to be a whole thing and he walks into the guy's office and the guy's like so like i watched survivor i saw zeke i get it just wanted to let you know you're cool and you're like oh all right like that yeah like if you can if you can you know if my experience can make other trans people's lives like easier and that there are like fewer hurdles to jump through, then like, I am very proud of that. And I totally, I wanted to ask you specifically about the way that they treated it on set. I wanted to know when it happened.

Did they, was there any conversation about, was it up to you whether it would be included? Or was it just kind of like, this is going to be included. And so let's take a second and you decide the way you want to respond like what what happens during a reality television show where this thing that's going to impact your life in such a major way goes down and then you have to continue yeah so you know he he said what he said and i'm pretty quite i'm quite confident they knew that that was going to happen before i worked into tribal council though i didn't really really i'm pretty sure yeah he was alluding to it or had explicitly said that he was going to do it um and uh you know so

we walk in there and it happens and it's just it was very emotional so everyone is just consumed by the moment and i sort of like went into a state of shock and like didn't talk for almost like 45 minutes but everyone around me was sort of like i was like okay what how do i need to defend myself and then everyone just like around me was saying the exact right things that needed to be said um and then i sort of like came back to and was like okay how can we like kind of just like put a bow on this and wrap it up? But it was just, it was very real. It was very like real two and a half hours of everyone's life that was very emotional. And there would have, there was no natural pacing to stop it. It's not like, and nor is that Jeff's style, right? If Jeff is very much Survivor being about the culture and what happens is real and yada, yada, yada. And so it happened. And then I had an interview the next morning about it.

And then it was basically like, we all said like, okay, we're just going to pretend that this didn't happen. Which like is the best thing you can do in Survivor going forward, right? Because now I became a target because like I had a story. So after it happened, there was no way I was going to win anything. And also like no one really like appreciated that something really terrible had happened to me.

And that I was sort of like spiraling out of control emotionally. Like it was, there were very bad things happening inside my head, but we just like no one was talking about it so like mercifully i get voted off like 11 days later and then like the next day i'm talking with the therapist and the show therapist and she's like so we're gonna put you in therapy when you get home and we want you to find someone expensive and we'll want you to go once a week and i was like okay great and then like a day after that i was having conversations

with jeff about like we're gonna make this a really important moment and if you can just play ball with us then we can do great things we can do people magazine we can like i have this vision and i'm gonna take care of you and i'm gonna fight for you if you can play ball with us and that's sort of what the conversation there was never like can we air this how should we tell the story it was more like a pitch from jeff being like hey you want to be my friend let's let's do it this way and i i wanted to to be his friend because when you're doing a reality show it doesn't you know you sign a contract it's basically like guaranteeing them to give you your force firstborn and then they can kill you afterwards right like you sign away all of your rights yeah and they put you in a position

where you're made to feel really disempowered like you don't have any control over anything and i had been living in survivor land for essentially four months at that point so it's not like i got back my autonomy or you know like typical like you know rar rar power zeke um that would be like fuck you this is how it's gonna go i was just like okay please just don't make me look like an idiot please just right yeah because essentially you are at their mercy because they're editing it yeah you don't want to say uh no i'm unhappy with this fuck you fuck you fuck you because again you've signed away your rights to that. So really, it's sort of like a courtesy that they're even coming to ask because ultimately

they're going to edit it however they want. Right. And you just have to be grateful and say thank you. And that's what I did for a very long time. And so if you're not a Survivor fan, you probably don't know that in season 39, which was the Survivor season in the fall there's a young woman who was like repeatedly sexually harassed and they handled it very very poorly and i can tell you that i was treated very differently than than kelly kim who's the young

woman who had to endure the repeated sexual harassment i was treated very differently than she was and i think that a large part of that is I was always willing to play ball. And also I'm white and I'm a guy. I think that those play a big role in us being treated differently. Anyway, sorry to go on this. No, no, no. I think it's really important because Survivor has such a general, you don't get a more general audience than that right so the way that they handle something like that is really important and i also wanted to ask

so what happened to you the outing that became a major story point for the eventual spoiler alert winner of that season who was officer sarah lacina on game changers yeah she really really gave her a moment um to say that she had sort of come around and had like now understood in this moment of this all happening and she had made a personal turning point and i think that was obviously baked into the edit because they knew she would win um what is your opinion of her and the way that they sort of gave that moment to her? So Sarah was my closest ally and my closest friend during that season. There were people like, you know, Andrea Belkey, I knew outside of Survivor. And we weren't that close.

You know, Sarah and I were very tight. And I were allies on the show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I do think that is, um, that that is accurate as to how she felt in the moment. And, you know,

we continue to be friends. I remember being very perplexing because I, I loved Sarah so much. I really lobbied hard for her to win. And, um, cause I was like, Oh, we have this like beautiful friendship even though our political beliefs

don't align and we have you know different backgrounds and then I remember she like walked into like dinner after the final tribal council after we voted to give her a million dollars and she was wearing a MAGA hat and I was just like oh my god but for her and I think this is true

for a lot of the police officers i know is that like they have this like this cognitive dissidence this like split in their mind where they can have friends who are lgbt they can have friends who are liberal they can have friends who are muslim or whatever and they're like oh these are good people but i'm still going to vote for trump because of these like external political beliefs that I have. Right. It's really sort of confounding because she gets such a heroic narrative on that show. And in season 40, she has this big speech about gender bias.

Right on. And is like right on and very articulate about it. Like has this like feminist monologue. And then you're like, but how are you you how do you not get the rest of you have to think the police officer thing runs deep it does yeah so that's really but anyway i had to ask about all about about that because i was and i really was wondering why they didn't include it in disclosure i really was because it was such a i mean i think it was one of the it was such a, I mean, I think it was one of the, it was so many millions of people watching it. Yeah.

But the impact was, the scale of the impact was significant. We need to take a quick break and then ask the question. The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Hancock. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute.

She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy. What? You told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City, all new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski.

Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude, you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them. And we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of types of dudes are there, Gronk?

We got studs, wizards. We got freaks. Or dudes, dude. We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak?

Is Tom Brady a dog or a dude's dude? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh.

And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez.

At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network,

available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, Charlemagne Tha God sits down with Vice President Kamala Harris for a conversation you don't want to miss. Listen, I feel very strongly I need to earn every vote, which is why I'm here having this candid conversation with you and your listeners. They tackle the big questions, politics, policy, and what's next for the country. I am running to be president for everybody, but I am clear-eyed about the history

and the disparities that exist for specific communities, and I'm not going to shy away from that. Don't miss this in-depth interview with Charlemagne Tha God and Vice President Kamala Harris, only on The Breakfast Club. Catch the full interview now on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and we're back so we have to ask our guests the question nico let's start with you this is the question what is the culture that made you say culture was for you this is like

the formative thing that pushed your life into a cultural direction. Does that make sense, Nico? Um, kind of sure. Like, like, like, like a formative thing that you probably saw growing up, or you read, or like a person who you probably sort of imprinted on it very quickly. I would have to say, I would have to say, you know, it's the, the, I'm much older than all of you. Oh,

no. Yeah. The Wonder Woman TV series with Linda Carter. Yeah. Linda. Yeah. With Linda Carter. So like when I was growing up in the Philippines,

they would show reruns of it. And I just remember as a little kid being so fascinated by it. I'm just like, who is this statuesque white lady who is fabulous and then all of a sudden she starts spinning and explosions.

She turns even more fabulous. I'm like, oh my God. I really was so taken by her. And the theme song was amazing. Can you perform it? I don't want to look at fire. And I'm out of your process. Fighting for our lives.

In your sanitize. And when I run out of air. I don't want to leave. Yes. The vibrato. Thank you. That is a natural vibrato right there. I was obsessed with her. So probably why it turned out the way I am. Well, I have a question. What do you think of the adaptation that is Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman?

I actually really like it. Me too. I like it. I can't wait for the 1984 one, the second one that's coming out. It looks so good. Yeah, because I think that's going to be more along the lines of the Linda Carter, because it's the same era. So I'm more excited for that.

Yeah, it's almost like they did the first one so they could do the second one yeah exactly that this is the full realization of that but did that like open the door to like other comic books or was it exclusively wonder woman and linda oh no i was a huge huge comic book nerd growing up i was like i collected comic books i you know x-men and i was like marvel in DC. I had like signed comic books by Jim Lee and Art Adams. I played Dungeons and Dragons. I was like a huge nerd growing up. And then when I moved to the United States,

I kind of was like, well, I need to reinvent myself because I was a huge dork. So what do I do? I joined the drama club. Yes. And what kind of productions did you stomp the boards in? My first role in Centennial High School in Gresham, Oregon, was I was a Nazi in The Sound of Music.

I had one line. Come on. Aldrich, block the driveway. No. And Hendy? They did. Hendy. They, block the driveway. No. You're well in. They did. They did block the driveway. They followed the command.

Okay. So did it sort of progress into more leading roles? Then junior year. Also, sophomore year. So I was Nazi in Sound of Music. Then I was Dr. Anagnos in The Miracle Worker. And then I was Tauntaun Julian in Once on this Island. My all-white high school in Oregon decided to do Once on this Island.

And there were only three people of color in it. Me, the lady who played Timun, and the woman who played Asaka. Was Timun a Pacific Islander? Yes, she was Hawaiian. Okay, good. Thank goodness. And then I was not cast in the play, which was a huge scandal.

I'm still very hurt. What was the play? What play were they doing? It doesn't even matter if Nika wasn't in it. Oh, Neil Simon, whatever. Oh, who cares? And then we did i also played like the officer in musical comedy murders in 1940 oh that's a good one and then i was the modern major general in pirates of penzance there we go that's an impressive run and then when i got to college my acting teacher was like you't act for shit. You're never going to be an actor.

And so I switched to costume design. And they got in your head and that's why you were doing stand-up saying I can't act, I can't do sketch. And so, but I blame it on that college theater teacher.

I fully, fully took their words to heart. Oh, and who else who has recently starred on NBC heard that same advice from that same program?

Mr. Boen Yang. I, from, from my high school teacher. Wait, but Zeke, did I, have we been over this? No, no, this is a, this is different. So I went to, I went to college with Darcy Carden. Oh, that's right. Yes, she's talked about this. Yeah, and I think she had a little bit better experience

than I did, but we were both told by the program that... So funny, right? So funny. And then the first season of her show, and it was the second season of Superstore, she visited the set and we were like, can you believe we are on back-to-back shows on NBC and that college in Ashland, Oregon was kind of like,

yeah, you guys. Yeah. And not even that, but critically acclaimed, like critics choice award nominated both of you. Both of you. It was crazy.

It's crazy how life turns out. Okay. Honestly, that's gorgeous. And now we turn to Zeke. Zeke, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you so mine was the film the three ninjas oh i which i don't know if you've seen wait is can

you explain the plot because i think i know what you're talking about yes so the plot is that there are these three boys who have a japanese grandfather though they don't they don't show any indications that they had a japanese grandfather and they go and they learn karate with him in the woods and so they're like these young three young ninja warriors and their father is an fbi agent and he's chasing down an international arms smuggler who although he is selling like enough like bombs to start world war three is protected by a group of like guys in ninja suits who are clearly white and carry swords but not guns and can be defeated by children and so the like uh the the bad guy you know the the

arms dealer kid snaps the kids but the kids like fight back. And yeah, that's the basic part of it. When you said this, I was almost positive I knew what it was and I was taken back immediately to this moment where I remember being so obsessed with that film. Yes, I am particularly obsessed with the character Tum Tum, who is the youngest of the three brothers and he likes to both eat and do martial arts which were two of my favorite things as a youth i actually went to the

taekwondo national championships in orlando florida when i was about 10 years old um because this inspired me to uh do taekwondo um three ninjas did the three ninjas did yes and because you know as a trans person i did not like the name that I was given at birth and when I watched Three Ninjas I was like three or four and I so hardcore identified with Tum Tum that I insisted that people call me Tum Tum

for a very long time so long until people had to be like we can't call you Tum Tum anymore this is not going to work Honestly call me tum tum title of that call me tum tum call me tum tum that i i just remember it was one of those movies i think i had it again when like i don't know like the first high school musical came out but like i remember being like i love this and don't exactly know why, but I think there is something about that we're boys,

but can take on the world. There's something about that narrative, which is just so fun. The fact that they were brothers. I just remember it felt like more than a movie. It felt like a manifesto is really what it felt like. It felt like a guide to life.

But it's so worth going back and re-watching because there's like the dubbing and the shitty action and the plot holes. Like it's still great and fun, but also has the like, it's good because it's bad sort of fun. Right. Have you looked for it recently?

Do you know where people can watch it? I actually just watched it part of at least this past week because a friend had owned it on his itunes account how did you do this wow oh is i he has it on itunes okay great great you can buy it it's i also own it on dvd and would be happy to send it to you it does honestly let's do it please you'd be shocked like when we had alaska thunderfuck on the show her I don't think so honey was I don't think so honey that you can't watch Spice World anywhere. Some of the best movies of all time

and I do include that, you can't watch. Alaska said it best. If you want to watch Spice World, you can't watch it. It is nowhere. I own several DVDs that I bought used on Amazon of movies like that because one of my favorite movies before it sort of got like

re-entered the zeitgeist was Drop Dead Gorgeous so I actually own two DVD copies of Drop Dead Gorgeous yeah because god forbid you lose one at least you have another one because you can't watch it anywhere else well now you can always prepare

always prep always prep where else? Well, now you can. Always prepare. Now it's Hulu. Always prepare. Always prep. Um, always prep. Prep every day. Prep every day. But prep each day. It's actually Rural Culture number 100.

Prep each day. But, that is so, those like, niche movies that are the best, like, you know what you could not

watch anywhere until recently? Glitter. Right. What platforms is it on now?bmx i see god bless and i mean i don't consider brandy cinderella brandy cinderella to be like on the platforms because it's just youtube and it's got like the vhs sort of like patina on it do you know what i'm saying why isn't the brandy cinderella on disney plus i don't know we don't know we simply don't know and i have to say i i don't have this as my i don't think so

honey but it could be which is i like disney plus but i don't think so honey that love victor was moved from disney plus to hulu because i watched all of love victor kind of because it's quarantine and i was like i'll give this a shot and ended up really liking it and but one thing i have that's a my a huge problem is like it's perfect for disney plus it's it's just so it's it's not like the kid is out fucking he's not doing drugs their whole problem was it's not we're concerned about the family values of it all and i'm like i'm sorry but correct me if i'm wrong you can watch avengers and thanos gets his head fucking ripped off don't give me we just watched avatar the other night and there's like full scenes of war in it so don't give me this family values bullshit you know what i appreciate about love victor

um natasha rothwell yeah hello is in the movie and the star of love simon yes yes was in love simon and in love victor um because you know in the movie the style of the movie and and the acting in the movie is very different from the style and the acting of the tv show because it's it's a disney show right so natasha like adapted her acting style and the way she was it's very different from her character like and she becomes the principal yes yeah spoiler alert she becomes the principal but also like her the rhythm of her acting the way she speaks on the show is very disney-esque and i love the fact that she tailored her performance to a Disney format. She gave you the Disney moment.

Because, you know, you have to adapt. That is a mark of a true artist. Yes. And that's actually real culture number 50. You have to adapt. That's the mark of a true artist. And Natasha, and this all goes back to, I mean, Natasha is in Wonder Woman 1984,

is in Love, Simon, in Love, Victor, Insecure, of course. I mean, she will bring Natasha to you wherever she shows up. She's an empire. We have to get her on the show. We have to get her on the show. I just want to watch her in everything.

In everything. She's truly great and has been truly great from the beginning. I mean, we know from being like UCB boys, but like... Couple skate, baby. Couple skate.

I did it once. Did you ever do it, Zeke? No, I have beef with Dan Hodap, so it never worked out. Dan, how is he doing? So there are still some improv beefs that exist. Yes, yes. But not this one.

Was he in Fancy Man? No. Dan Hodap coached Judith for a while. Yes, but he was gay. But he was not out, and we did not know. We just thought he was a straight guy. Wait, did you just out him? What's going on?

Okay, you know what? No. This will be cut. He is now. He is now. He is gay, but he's gay. He used to come to dinner with us, and then we would go to gay bars, and I would tease him about being the only straight guy in a gay bar,

not knowing he was deeply closeted and was trying to put his foot out the door. And then he did not like me, regardless. Wow. And that blacklisted you from couples. Couples. Couples. Yeah.

Wow, wow, wow. I can't believe this is like the third episode in a row where I've been like, love Victor's good, but here I am. You liked it, Nico. I liked it in certain parts, yeah.

Did you watch more than the first episode? I finished it. Oh, so did I. Yeah, I finished it. Bowen Yang watched the last episode with me. I caught the last episode and I enjoyed it. He was into it. Yeah.

How good is the lead actress, Rachel Hilson? So good. I thought she was great. Yeah. She's amazing. lead actress, Rachel Hilson? So good. I thought she was great. Yeah. She's amazing. Are those, are the guys in it queer?

No. Victor is not. Victor is not, at least. Gonna have to hold my breath on that one. But he did, he did talk to his

gay cousin when forming. Yes, he did. Did you see, I mean, there was a tweet that compared two headlines from Vulture

where one was, Guy from Love Victor talked to his gay cousin about being gay. And then the other one, when Love Simon came out, was Guy from Love Simon talked to his gay uncle about being gay. It's like, come on, you guys. It's actually wonderful for these straight actors that have gay relatives to be represented on screen. I mean, we need more straight people with gay relatives that are distant on screen yes as jen richards said the word is more for straight actors with gay relatives representation matters you guys wait really quickly before we move on i don't think so i

don't think so i do want to bring this up i want to talk to nico about this because i am like i am constantly in an argument with myself in my head. It's not even an argument, but I'm just like, I hate this thing that Nico, I don't know if you've gotten this, but I am like the pin cushion in a lot of ways for people who just like get in my DMs and say,

oh, like what you are doing is dammit. It's like men's rights activist Asian guys who are like, there's this conspiracy in Hollywood that is only meant to uplift queer Asian men who are femme. Femme Asian men because it buys into like hegemonic patriarchal ideal or like white supremacist ideals of like Asian men being these qualitative things in general. And I'm just like, but wait a minute. Oh, but the line is there's so many representations of effeminate asian men on on in media and i'm like wait a minute it took me a second to be like that's actually not true like you can count on one hand the amount of like

asian male representation roles moments whatever that are actually like outwardly queer and it's like you're one of them nico and that's that's great i'll count myself as one of them but it's like george to k maybe but it's like but it's not this can alec mapa oh we love alec be deep well but it's like it's not this thing that would constitute like this conspiracy against asian masculinity and first of all that is like couching its own femphobia in its own homophobia are you getting these messages from asian men yeah well the thing is like i feel like and you might relate to this nico i feel like to be a femme asian guy in entertainment is to get it from sort of all sides or from both sides at least like you get some heat from asian men who are like hey you're

eroding like these these like masculine representations in media and you're getting from like white people obviously but it's like i'm i'm getting to this point where i'm like it's actually fucked up and it's a myth that it's it's just anecdotal right when someone says oh but like it's a he's just playing a cliche, sassy Asian guy. I'm like, how, like, but like, tell me what that cliche is.

Point me to the actual moment where you saw a sassy Asian gay man roll their eyes besides like these people that I've named. I do get messages like that

or just like, oh, like, Mateo on Superstore is like so stereotypical and I'm just like, but, but what's, but like, but I'm like, that's just who I am. like so stereotypical and I'm just like but that's just who I am I'm just a femme leaning

actually the thing about and I truly consider myself like there are days where I act more masculine and days where I'm a little more feminine and I just sort of like go in between but you know I mean when I'm sort of like go in between but you know i i mean when i'm sort of like in a more excitable mode i i do i'm just more fem leaning and i just hate it when when people are

just like you're just playing another stereotypical gay asian character at every exactly every portrayal of a of a asian guy out there it's like a gay asian guy those are the only actors but that's but that's not even true it's not it's not true that Asian guy those are the only actors that get worked but that's not even true it's not it's not true that's the anecdotal thing that slips in and like

and like people assume that that's the right thing and it's like but wait a minute no like we haven't seen enough of this okay let's say it is

a stereotype it's not being represented in media at least yeah I don't know the question that I hate the most that I also get asked a lot is like

are you tired or do you ever feel like you're being pigeonholed by only sure sure gay roles and i'm like no i actually have no interest in playing straight roles none whatsoever there you go i feel the same way i don't want to play to play. I just want to play roles that... Representation matters. There's so few of us out there, and I only want to play roles that look like me, that speak like me, that speak to my experience.

I could care less if I don't win an Oscar for playing the Elephant Man. You know what I mean? Who cares? Although you could. I mean, sure. I would see that production. think again she is a two time critics choice nominee you can go fuck yourself college theater professor

wait i have i do want to ask that why do you think these people are saying that do you think it's anger that they don't see straight asian men represented or do you think it's anger that they don't see straight asian men represented or do you think it's homophobia what do you where do you think it's coming from my theory is that it's pure homophobia but it's like couched in these um it's trojan horsed in this like thing of like well we just want a positive representation of asian men of asian men who are not like neutered or whatever and i'm like okay fair i hear that but you have you have these representations that you are kind of ignoring and erasing just to snipe at me let's say because it's like you're you're gonna like say that like john cho and simu lu and steve yan and like and like ken John and like all these men like these straight Asian men

who like all like embody some different aspect of Asian masculinity that does not fall into a value system of well to be masculine is to be more powerful or better or whatever because I'm like meanwhile like I'm over here like writing all most of my own shit and it's yeah right and it's fun and it's like no one's forcing me to do these i don't know it's it's that whole like you know they want us to believe that there's not room for all of us that there's only room for like one type of representation and that by us existing that we're taking up space and taking it away from them i'm just like we can all exist at the same time. You know what I mean? I feel like my friendship

with Joel is like this. My relationship with Nuniko is like it's never been an adversarial thing where it's like, well, it's scarcity mindset. It's not like we're outbidding each other on a house. I'm sorry to bring that up. Fresh wounds, Bowen. I know, I know. You're a bitch, Bowen. I on a house. I'm sorry to bring that up. But it's like... Fresh wounds, Bowen.

You're a bitch, Bowen. I'm a bitch. That is the thing that you have to recuse yourself from is to be like, we're all competing. It's like, well, no. It's amazing when Joel gets something that has nothing to do with me or might have something to do with me.

I don't know. We're more evolved than we think we are yeah and that that applies for everyone that applies for us queer asian people in media and it applies to the asian men who are like oh woe is us we don't have enough positive portrayals of asian men in entertainment and we're also different from each other that's the thing it. It's just like, they're like, well, you know, like, the thing is, like, you, me, and Joel, we're probably in this, we'll be in the same audition room, right? Absolutely.

But it's like, you know, we're such different characters and actors from each other. It's like, we could all be in the same project and we don't have to be like the token Asian in, you know. Exactly. In that project, so, yeah. Ugh, Nico, you in that project so yeah uh nico you're a damn inspiration zeke you're a damn inspiration i think it's time for i don't think so honey what do you say matt i would say yeah okay um so i don't think so honey is our one minute segment that we do which is where we take 60 seconds to rail on something in culture

that we hate sorry we hate um and um i know that's a strong word it's a four-letter word people don't like them but that's the one i'm using so i actually have two options today and i'm going to give you guys the choice of which one i do if you can believe this this has never been done do you want to hear and i don't think so honey on kids going back to school or and i don't think so honey on geraldo rivera geraldo Rivera is going to be less of a downer, I think. That's me. Oh, yeah. I also think Geraldo is such a goofball. I'm all about it. So you would like to hear Geraldo?

Great. Okay, so this is Matt Rogers' I don't think so honey as time starts now. I don't fucking think so honey Geraldo Rivera, you clown. You're a Fox News clown and you're a friend of Donald Trump's, but that's not why I'm coming for you today. And if that's fucking saying something because you're a friend of donald trump's but that's not why i'm coming for you today and if that's fucking saying something because you're a joke i'm coming for you today because you have

sided with people who think that galene maxwell should have been given bail you can go fuck yourself and i don't think so honey you're a ridiculous caricature with a stupid fucking mustache but let me say something galene maxwell should be in prison for the rest of her life for what she has done to these girls. But let me just elaborate on why else you're a joke. You, okay, they had to kick you out of Iraq when you were reporting there because you gave away an operation.

You drew it in the sand, you idiot. Okay, okay. They had to kick, during the war of Afghanistanistan you claimed that you were in the middle of a friendly fire and you actually were 300 miles away you defended matt lauer by saying that news was a flirt quote a flirty business you said that trayvon martin would not have been killed had he not been wearing a hoodie and you literally wrote a book called exposing yourself also never forget that bett mittler accused you of drugging her and groping

her in the early 70s, you fuck. Shave your mustache. I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute and 11 seconds. And stop posting your nudes on Twitter. You don't look hot.

Gross. Freak. Geraldo Rivera was also a great contestant on Celebrity Apprentice. Second place. You lost to Lisa Gibbons, the queen.

Oh my God. Also, I will say this. If you go to that wack gibbons the queen also i will say this if you go to if you go to that wacko geraldo rivera's wikipedia page it's mostly shit that he's done wrong yeah yeah you didn't even get to the uh the whole al capone's vault where he had this like two hours special being like we're gonna open the vault we're gonna open the vault and then they open the vault and there's absolutely nothing nothing yes i remember this nothing it would have been a great area to acoustically sing in because there was honey nothing it was it might as well be called my damn shower because the acoustics in that room were amazing from there being nothing in it and so that therefore you could sing therefore you could sing. Therefore you could sing beautiful. And I would say that Al Capone's vault is like Geraldo Rivera's brain.

Empty. And it's a rule of culture 102. Al Capone's vault is like Geraldo Rivera's brain. Empty. Fuck him. I couldn't believe he would die on the hill of Ghislaine Maxwell should have bail. Bitch. Not the dumbest thingislaine Maxwell should have bail. Bitch! Not the dumbest thing he said, to be honest.

Yeah, but that's what set me off today, Bowen. Oh, I see, I see. Understand. We were both set off by Ghislaine-related things today. Really? So you have a Ghislaine-related... No, no, no, I'm saying, I don't think somebody's knocking me about Ghislaine, but the thing I opened with the episode about the Diane Warren of it all. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. Well, honestly, Ghislaine Maxwell, she deserves to be pushed off a red carpet by Mariah Carey for the rest of her life. Yes. I hope that's her punishment. That she, for the rest of her life, will be pushed off red carpets forcefully by Mariah Carey. Yes.

Yes. Yes. That's a sitting punishment. So at this time, we will move to bowen yang who has and i don't think so any of his own yes um and are you ready bowen i'm ready i'm ready well then your time starts now i don't think so honey instagram features rollouts look i want to be able to type in my stories with a serif font honey i want to wait a minute did everyone else's notifications thing move to their profile page to the upper right corner?

Because that just they just sort of dropped that bomb on me yesterday. And I'm still trying to. Questions during his I don't think so, honey. Well, I'm just having to rewire my muscle memory, honey, when I want to check my notifications and get that, you know, terrible serotonin boost from notifications. And now I got to extend my thumb all the way up to the upper right corner of my screen. Instagram features rollouts. I don't think so, honey.

I want to be able to put a square photo without the rounded edges. I want to be able to do all the fun things on stories that I see all the other people doing right now. And I can't. Why? It's blue check oppression, sweetie. I'm being oppressed for

having five seconds okay and that is the hell that i'm going to die on stop stigmatizing blue checks and that's one minute bowen yang famously he feels we should stop stigmatizing wealth and verification as a bit bowen basically metaphorically that that i don't think so honey was this pool isn't big enough i want them i want blue checks destigmatized but i also want to lose mine which therefore implies that i too uh harbor some stigma towards blue checks well you've been a little edgy on twitter and instagram lately i'm not afraid to say okay and what do we mean i mean that you be on twitter yeah and i'm deleting i'm deleting a lot of stuff. I'm deleting- You were so happy when you deleted it the first time.

I'm tweeting and then deleting is what I'm saying. I'm tweeting shit and I'm like, I don't want people to see this. This is stupid. This should only last. I just wanna delete Twitter. I've done it. Wouldn't it be great to just do?

I really just want to. It's a horrible place. It's terrible. It's so bad. Someday, someday I'll pull away for good anyway but i feel i need it to like tell people about this episode you know what i mean because i want everyone to hear all this i want to be able to say you know in this episode we talk about fun things and also etc but like then i feel like i need twitter and but but also it sucks so it's a

it's a conundrum catch 22 or is that what yeah anyway we now go let's go because quarantine has not been kind to my cerebral functions um we're gonna go to zeke zeke smith is gonna do his i don't think so honey and if you can believe zeke if you're ready your time will start now i don't think so. Well-intentioned cis people writing scripts with trans protagonists who ask trans people to review their scripts. Then our butt hurt when we tell them they did a bad job. I'm sorry that you want to write a trendy script and win an award on our behalf. And I'm sorry if you're too gay and too scared to write your own goddamn coming of age slash coming out story. And want to like remove yourself a step

from your own story by writing about trans people i don't think so honey there's a bechdel test there's a vito russo test and here is zeke's trans test should you write a transcript a script um yes or no are you a person uh oh do you does the person do anything other than be trans if no don't write a script uh do you intend for a trans person to look wistfully into a mirror imagining their authentic selves? Then say no. Do you have five trans people's numbers in your phone? If not, don't write

it. Are you willing to hire me as a staff writer? No, don't write it. Are you a large, muscular current slash former rugby player? If not, don't waste my time. If you are that rugby player, will you have sex with me and my boyfriend? If yes, don't waste my time. If you are that rugby player, will you have sex with me and my boyfriend? If yes, okay, you can write your script.

And that's one minute. Zeke, the Zeke test. I believe that that test is now in the canon. It is. That test is now canonical. It should be. Excellent. And for rugby player screenwriters

who will not commodify a trans life in their screenplay, please have sex with Zeke and Nico. Please. You can find my email on my Twitter. Yes, there you go. Reach out. Reach out. I love it.

That was perfect. The Zeke test is in the canon. I love that. Yes. Let's move on. I just heard they put it in Webster's Dictionary, even though it's two words. You guys are so prepared i like i thought we were just supposed to wing this well you can't although i'll tell you this is the first time i've had notes ever because i just wanted to

get correctly i know all of you guys have like notes and stuff and i'm like i thought this was like a okay no i never have notes nico you and i are the are the unprepared asians and we're we're yes that's fine revolutionary revolutionary um nico i think i think this will be great you're a natural performer obviously so this is nico santos's i don't think so honey as time starts now i don't think so honey that stupid video of the cakes that look like real things and people cutting into them. What is up with that? How dare you slander cakes in this manner? Cakes are supposed to look delicious.

They're supposed to look edible, first of all. They're supposed to look joyous. And they're supposed to evoke a feeling of wanting to celebrate. They're not supposed to look like raw chicken breasts and a pair of Crocs or toilet paper. What the fuck is wrong with you people? First of all, the focus of the cake should be making it delicious, not look like other things. Stop using fondant as a crutch okay fondant is not delicious just focus on the damn cake make it moist make it delicious and make it look like

a motherfucking cake and that's one minute you know what, Matt, stop using fondant as a crutch. That's rule of culture number 54. Stop using fondant as a crutch. How do you feel about the show Nailed It? You must feel horrible about seeing all those cakes come out so damn bad. Oh, no, but we love Nicole Byers. I do love that show,

but, like, you see all these, like, bakers sort of, like, creating these elaborate cakes that look like you know like nothing else and i'm just like that doesn't look good or it doesn't look like it would taste good sure sure sure it's not creative in the right way to be to taste good yeah exactly yeah we're doing keto right now so cake has been on my mind oh i'm sorry but you guys you you guys hang in there with keto. Yeah, but keto is one of the easy ones.

Keto is doable. Yeah. Yeah. You can dip cheese into hummus and eat that. Yeah, but I want rice. I know. Oh, I love rice. Can we have a second?

Can we just take a moment for rice? Rice transcends cultural boundaries, right? There's a rice staple dish in every in every culture i love rice i love rice i want to say um i do want to say that the this cakes discourse is is overlapping into deep deep fake discourse a little bit we're being deceived it's subterfuge we're you know we're being manipulated by higher powers and and evil forces to mistrust reality and and we gotta be careful what's the new show on netflix where the which is the cake show because there's there's not just nailed it there's also another

show i don't know there's another show it's like it's called like delicious cakes or something fuck it might be delicious cakes wait have you guys seen The Old Guard? I saw that last night. It's phenomenal. Oh, you watched it without me? It's so good. I'll watch it again. It's so good.

This is me finding out that Bowen watched it without me as well. Well, I texted you the other night. I texted you the other night. Do you want to watch The Old Guard soon? You did not respond. I was on set, bitch. I'm making him watch Kung Fu Hustle tonight.

Oh my God. One of the best movies of all time. We started it last night. We started it, but then we got sleepy. So we went to bed. One of,

it's Looney Tunes. You've seen it before, right, Nico? Yes, yes. I love it. It's Looney Tunes. It's a perfect film. I love it so much.

It's so great. You're going to love it. Well, speaking of watching things, let me tell you what you should watch if you haven't already figured it out a few things let's talk about the first thing you need to watch is survivor namely you better go back and watch i think the millennials gen x is one of the best seasons of survivor and it features an unbelievable the nerd alliance by zeke who was literally voted out because he was too good and it's not said enough and zeke iconic survivor castaway who wore glasses and that is representation that is was that difficult to do um well most of the time i wore my contacts uh i see but then every now and

again i i would wear my glasses because especially the last time i scratched my cornea by trying to put contacts in my eyes with like sand and then i had to wear my glasses oh my god quickly like how hard is survivor it's very hard yes it is it's very it's the hardest thing you've ever done uh no like within you know what i mean like like in terms of like there's nothing else that you'll do that is as hard as Survivor is. But then like the amount of time you're on the island, yes, that's very hard. But then like you are tortured. You go through a traumatic experience.

Yes. And it's not appreciated enough that how traumatized you are when you leave the island and how they don't care about your mental health afterwards unless like you were outed or something really really bad happened um and then they just like send you off into the wind and people are fucked up for decades afterwards yeah we talked we talked to we had poverty on and we talked to her about like just watching yourself in the edit it's it's just so insane yeah dissociative um well anyway watch survivor millennials versus gen x watch survivor game changers and we of Insane. Dissociative. Well, anyway, watch Survivor Millennials vs. Gen X. Watch Survivor Game Changers. And we, of course, say watch Disclosure, Trans Lives

on Screen on Netflix. And that's not the only person who you can watch. I mean, Superstore was just concluded, sort of concluded its fifth season. We didn't get the finale. We didn't. I mean, like, we were shut down with one week left to film. They literally called us and like, it's happening like, we were shut down with one week left to film.

God. They literally called us and like, it's happening. We're being shut down. And Zeke and I were already in Burbank trying to go to the Costco. Superstore down. So we were like, babe, we got to go to the lot so we can clean up my trailer. And we went to my trailer and i was like oh snap there's four rolls of toilet paper in my trailer so i just packed it with me and then i we walked around our store set to see if there's toilet paper and then we ran into a person and they were like that shit went a week ago. There's no toilet paper.

No toilet paper or cloud nine. And so that finale was supposed to be America's last episode, right? Yes. So now she will be joining us for the first episode of season six. And hopefully for

the second episode as well, we're going to try and give her the proper send off that she deserves that a television icon like america ferrera deserves do you love her she's amazing and she's the best like everybody in that cast like i yeah you know i i don't know what i did in a former life but truly truly between Superstore and Crazy Rich Asians, like those two families that I've gotten from working in those projects have been phenomenal and, and I've changed my life. So I'm just really grateful for it.

You just, you deserve it more than really anybody. I mean, God, like you deserve it. And wait a minute before we move on from Superstore, Ben Feldman, what a cutie.

I mean, I'm into it. Cutie patootie. He's like my big brother, so I don't see him that way, but he is quite handsome. He's not our brother, so we can think of him. I love that. He's one of those.

He can. He's one of those. Now you put it in my mind, and I'm going to think about it. Okay, anyway. You guys, now you put it in my mind and I'm gonna think about it um okay anyway um you guys thank you so so much for coming and doing this show

thank you thanks for having us this has been amazing it's good to see your faces we love it I know you too we were looking forward to this truly for weeks

and what a fantastic episode we love you very much we hope we see you soon yeah let's you know what if you're if you guys are down for it let's totally do like a social distance hang okay we've been yeah we can do a social distance palm springs week yeah oh my god i was i was just there

and it was so nice it was great we were there last week last week yeah i think i was there about three four weeks ago but it really was just nice nice. Did you get to go to a restaurant and everything? No, we just stayed in a pool. Yeah. Well, that, but also the restaurants were very much open there. I don't know what they're doing now, now that California is a shit show, but this was four weeks ago when it was still sort of acceptable,

so we would sit very far away with everyone masks on. It was just nice to be in a restaurant again. You forgot. Yeah. But anyway. Now this is a restaurant again you forgot yeah but anyway on that fucking note i'm happy we started on death and are ending on quarantine love it we love it and but that's that's the grounding force um we end every episode with a song matt don't we we do how do i How do I get through a night without you? If I had to live without you,

what kind of life would that be? Oh, why? Et cetera. If you want to hear that song, listen to the Leigh-Anne Rimes version or the Trisha Yearwood version, nominated for an Oscar because it was in the movie Con Air, which is real. Bye!

Yay! I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars.

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