Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Candor" (w/ Sarah Jessica Parker)

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

Matt & Bowen welcome a true icon in every sense: Sarah Jessica Parker! The star of Sex and the City, And Just Like That and so, so, so much more stops by to discuss the evolution of her shoe game alongside Carrie Bradshaw's, living in a baseball home, and how A Chorus Line unlocked her need to have a passion for a passion. Also, SJP on Broadway in Annie, Once Upon A Mattress and Plaza Suite, the impact of SNL50 on a New Yorker like herself, her friendship with Amy Sedaris, shooting the wedding sequence from Sex and the City: The Movie, and how New York City COMPELS. All this, what it feels like to re-visit Carrie throughout the years, Molly Shannon, Cincinnati, going to the movies to see Ferris Bueller with a young Martha Plimpton and how maybe... Carrie should have given Paris more of a chance. A terrific time spent with one of the greats of all time! Watch And Just Like That on HBO Max! But we bet you already are! Bonsoir!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Get ready for a celebration of play like no other at the all-new LEGO Summer of Play event at LEGOLAND Discovery Center Toronto, now through August 3rd. I'm master model builder Noel inviting you to discover your play mode with awesome build activities, experiences, and even some fresh new dance moves. Enjoy the ultimate indoor LEGO playground with rides, a 4-day theater, and millions of Lego bricks at Legoland Discovery Center. Build the best day ever with your family by getting tickets online now at legolanddiscoverycenter.com slash Toronto. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant.

For My Heart Podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is The Turning, River Road. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. But in 2014, the youngest escaped. Listen to The Turning, River Road on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories

and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. The new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile.

Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join iHeartRadio and Sarah Spayne in celebrating the one-year anniversary of iHeart Women's Sports. With powerful interviews and insider analysis, our shows have connected fans with the heart of women's sports. In just one year, the network has launched 15 shows and built a community united by passion. Podcasts that amplify the voices of women in sports.

Thank you for supporting I Heart Women's Sports and our founding sponsors, Elf Beauty, Capital One and Novartis. Just open the free I Heart app and search I Heart Women's Sports to listen now. Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Oh, my. Bowen, look over there. Is that culture? Yes. Goodness. Wow., look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes. Oh my goodness. Oh, wow.

Las Culturistas. Ding dong, Las Culturistas calling. And like Carrie Bradshaw, we have returned from Paris. We have returned from Paris. Returned to New York and hidden the streets again. I mean, and we were in an expensive suite in this lovely hotel. And we did not find love there.

We did not find love there. Thank you to Bianca Milov, BC Travel. At BC Travel, you hooted up for us. We didn't really try to find love though. We didn't make earnest attempts. We made half-assed attempts. No. I think even for staying in the Moray,

it was still a pretty, I would say, and I say this with all love, Yeah. during Pride Month, it was a pretty hetero sort of romance being sort of bandied about and Even sort of I don't know like at an allegedly gay club that we were supposed to go to that We did end up going to that didn't feel gay at all the energy was kind of more black swan

Great sort of biomass, then it was like an explicitly queer space, and that's okay You just took me back to we were in NYU and I walked on It was 4th Avenue and they were filming a movie and I said what are you guys filming? And they said we are filming a movie called Black Swan and years later. I had not years later a year later I find out it was the iconic scene with Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman where Mila goes You've never rolled and then they do Molly and have a lesbian encounter. Much more successful homosexuality than we were in Paris. But you guys rock, Natalie and Mila, and come on the pod.

You guys rock. Together. Together. I hope that they're still connected. I'm sure they are. Oh. Well anyway, we're sort of doing that thing where it's like, we really can't believe it.

And so no more of our bullshit, because this is a no bullshit moment in lost-cult History it's one of those days. We were passing back and forth a little phone sort of going shot-for-shot on iconic moments and certain television series history and really just like sitting in Not just the impact but the talent of our guests, just an incredible actor, as well as being a true pop culture icon, one of the top pop culture icons on our Iconic 400, I believe number five.

Number five, and she was my first sort of pop cultural Winifred. I was like, sure, sure, sure, Carol Burnett, we love. Oh. She would then play Agravan in her version. Once Upon a Mattress was like the big first freshman year musical for me. Huge window into the entire, this is,

could be an answer for me for the culture that made me say Culture vs Me. One of them? Was the Broadway revival of Once Upon a Mattress that our guest was the star of. For me, outside of the big one, I think I knew a little bit who I was when I watched Hocus Pocus and I said,

well I'm that one. Yeah. That's the one one I am. And a dark lip. 100% a dark lip and a Distracted bedazzled energy. I said I want to be that unbothered. I strive for that. They won't expect anything of me No, of course not. You're dancing idiotically in the background. We can never forget. Bet, come on the pod. Bet, come on the pod. Anyway And Kathy. Of course Kathy. Well, of course Kathy. I hope they keep in touch but first but first our guest well, it's the mayoral primary in New York I think she's our mayor everyone. Please welcome into your ears Oh my gosh, well, I feel it'd be best if I just left now like I feel it'd be best if I just left now like Be all those things like one day perhaps I will actually be one or two of those or that person you described

But perhaps we just leave best best left alone. Thank you so much for having me. Have a great day Honestly though it does have to be I was thinking about this like this idea of you as the woman who represents New York women Like when you are you and you're not Carrie Bradshaw. That's a little bit of a burden, but also I guess not It's really not none of it's a burden. Yeah, I mean relative to burdens Relative to like actual crosses to bear. Yeah. It's really one of the great privileges of a lifetime. My question for you is, and I've always wondered this,

so Carrie Bradshaw, famous shoe game, was your shoe game always on point or did you have to kind of up the shoe game as SJP because people see CB? Oh, interesting. I think there was a tandem relationship and and but one One went mad And the others stayed as like a civilian

Like I have I really actually Have always loved shoes and I will try to tell this story quickly But I'm one of eight kids there was a period of time in which I was one of six kids But nonetheless that's a lot of kids to shoot every year a lot of feet and and So at the top of the school year My mother would take us and this was not an unusual experience for people in this country at a specific time You'd go to a shoe store before school started you would be sized And we didn't have a lot of money. So we weren't like just shopping for shoes.

It was like a utilitarian act in a way. It's just necessary. And we went and I'm the fourth of the six and now eight or that, you know, soon after eight. And so I would just like walk around the shoe store smelling shoes. And what I loved about a shoe store and I'm much older than you, so I don't know if you had this experience, but when you walk into the shoe store in August, it's air conditioned, first of all. Like, I don't know if you guys grew up with an air conditioner

in your house, but we did not. Like, that is a privilege. We got there. In the Ohio summer, August. So we walk, you know, drive a good distance to our shoe store that is a distributor of like Buster Brown you know walk in and as my siblings were getting fitted I would like pick up shoes and smell them and then turn them over and Like really look at the stitching on the bottom of the sole of a Buster Brown shoe So I really came to this experience of playing someone who has a far more fevered relationship with

with some like real affection. I just don't I didn't have the access or the money or the the Constitution to like be buying. Sure. Right. It would not have I would not have considered that kind of I would not have considered that kind of indulgence. Yeah. It seems like I'm relating this idea to you talking in interviews about having access to books in kind of a similar way.

I mean, is that, I mean, obviously different functions, but like, I find it interesting that you think that, I think I'm gonna guess that you Are the one who's gone mad and carries the one who stayed a civilian and yet it seems like no it's the reverse Okay, Carrie my shoes and I stay got it more real now granted Perhaps not sure sure sure to if if you might work in an office in Omaha You might not of course our versions of being civilians are not. Right. Tied to like. Comparable.

Totally, totally. But I don't have the closet that she has. I don't have the shoes she has. I don't have the amount nor would I ever. Like that kind of, that kind of indulgence and decadence for. Maximalism. Yes.

Maximalist. I wouldn't. But I love shoes. Yes. So. But books were different in my house because we had a public library. So we always had books. We could always have books, but you can't always have shoes.

Right. And so when you grow up, I think having a pair for the fall and a pair for the spring and then hand-me-downs, you have a different, like the thing you're reaching for remains like a far away distance, you know? And books were much more at our, like we thought of them, went to the library, like fulfilled, you know, so they kind of are different.

I love books. Yeah. Talk about that. But I've had a different, it's been different because those have been more within my reach when I was younger. Sure. I mean, I am always so curious about the sort of transitional time in your life where you were in Ohio to sort of working and probably being in New York for, I guess, many months out of the year?

Or was it was that like a sudden quick like, OK, we're picking like everyone pick up your bags from we're going to New York. We moved to New York. I lived in Cincinnati until I was 12. My brother and I, the previous summer, in the summer of 76, we'd worked in New York in a play on Broadway. It had gone out of town for out of town tryouts first.

And that was my only experience working in New York. My real father is born and raised in Brooklyn, but he wasn't living in Brooklyn by the time he became a parent. So we spent time in Brooklyn with his parents, so we had that experience and on January 1st of 1977, my parents put everything we owned into our Volkswagen bus and we moved to New York City, the entire family, and at that point there were six of us. My mother was pregnant

with my sister Allegra. She was born, she came later because she couldn't, it wasn't a great idea for her to travel 12 miles in a car. Yeah. But there was like literally like I remember at one point my father kind of stopped suddenly and there was a cast iron skillet behind my head and I just remember just like knowing that it was there like putting my hand back to hold it so that it wouldn't hit us all in the head. So then we moved to New York City and we didn't have a home yet. We were we were going to be the first families that moved to Roosevelt Island.

Oh wow. We came to New York to move to Roosevelt Island because they had subsidized housing. So we could afford to live in New York City. But they weren't ready yet. So we moved to the Holiday Inn in Yonkers and we lived there. And then my mom came and so my sister was born in Yonkers. And then Roosevelt Island was finally ready, I think in the spring of 77 maybe. So then we moved to Roosevelt Island and we lived there.

Was the train was this is such a tram was there. Yeah, I was there. So there was no there was a park. There was no subway service yet. It hadn't been built. It may have even just been like a dream. I don't think they had started digging that subway line yet. Yeah.

And we only knew about Roosevelt Island because there was an article in New York Magazine about it. And my mom read the article and we applied through the Housing Urban Development Corporation and got one of the apartments. So we lived there for a year. So we all moved, the entire family. My father started a trucking business.

He was a truck driver. And some of my other siblings were actors and auditioning. And thus began our time in the city. And I don't think I ever imagined at that point that anyone would ever say, yeah, no, you're a New Yorker. I was like keeping track the entire time. Like at what point do I get to say, yeah, I'm a New Yorker.

I mean, I love Cincinnati so much and it's an incredible city. Like it's a really special city and it's cultured and interesting and such smart people and it's beautiful. But I love it. Yeah. You ended up where you belong. Yeah. What year was Annie's been so on the brain for me recently

because they just did that beautiful rendition of Tomorrow at the Tony Awards. Yeah. Sarah Bareilles and Cynthia Arevo in memoriam. And I was just I've now fallen into this wormhole of those songs. Oh, my God. And just maybe and tomorrow and just really everything even not even just Annie's songs I mean across the board what age was that so that was um I joined the Cast I was like I guess one of the first replacements right so what happened is Kathy Joe Kelly was July.

She left to do the first national tour and play Annie. So I was her replacement. So I came in in January of 1978. Wow. Pretty soon after. Having seen the show. Yeah. Like I was like.

You were obsessed. I don't even know if like there's a word to describe the way I felt about seeing that show, we saw it, I think, before it opened on Broadway. And I've been working in an industrial with a bunch of the kids that were in that cast. And one of the original orphans was my understudy in The Innocence on Broadway that I had done the year before. So all of us were very like. We were like devotees of Annie and that cast album. It's magical.

So I came in as an orphan, as July, as well. I was cast as the understudy to Annie. Right. Which is mystifying because I didn't I'd never really sang professionally. Really? No. So what was that? Is it just like loving it at that age? And so you're pretending or like, what do you think? I had never really sang professionally. Really? No. So what was that? Is it just like loving it at that age and so you're pretending or like,

what do you think made Little U able to do that? Cause it's not easy songs. I don't really know. Yeah, and I still left thinking, well, I'm not really a singer. I don't know. I think, you know, we grew up listening to records. We didn't have a television

and we listened to cast albums all the time. And you know, I think, like a lot of people in my family, we don't know why, we have a musical ear. Like we have good, you know, we have musicality, or we have good pitch, like. And I'm an interpreter. You know what I mean? Like I'm an interpreter.

And I had a really good audition song, I mean? Like I'm an interpreter. I'm an interpreter. Do you see? And I had a really good audition song, I will say. What was it? And it was kind of controversial and no one else was doing it. Those were always the best ones. So what we're gonna, is the path like, it's not linear.

We'll find it. Yeah. Cause it's gonna might hit back to a question. I think we can dovetail into the question. Yeah, okay. But I do wanna know your audition song. I think it's about toail into the question. Yeah, okay, but I do want to know your audition But I think it's about to crack open crack open. Okay. This is the question Sarah. Just a partner What was the culture that made you say culture is for you? So My answer to that question and I was delighted to have one versus, you know

Hemming and Hein and trying to come up with something. I have a very Clear and specific and the easiest. I love it. It took like 20 seconds to flip that around. Those are the best, great. Okay, so in 1976 when we came to New York, or 1975, I can't remember, we came to New York to audition for The Innocents on Broadway. And that's another kind of amazing, crazy long story.

But as Bridget Everett, I called ginger says short story long We came to New York and while we were in New York City One night we were spending time with my paternal grandparents in Brooklyn and my mother and father Went to see a show that was in previews called a chorus line at the Schubert Theatre. And they actually like summoned the dollars together in order to stay an extra day because they thought our children have to see the show. Like they have to see the show.

So they stood back in line and we got standing room and we got two seats and we flipped. Like some of us stood for a while and some of us sat. And so I saw in previews at the Schubert Theater, I can't say that I saw it down at the Public Theater, I saw Chorus Line on Broadway before it opened. And I can say without hesitation that it completely changed my life. And I think what's interesting about good theater or a good book,

a musical or a straight play or a movie is that it is not necessarily... I don't have to have been a 24-year-old... Horace Lane is famous for calling all of them boys and girls. But I was like nine or ten years old and I was from Ohio and I felt like the plates of the earth had just shifted and they shouldn't have it really except that they were so good that cast and that show was so clearly about Love that show was so clearly about a dream and I think you know, obviously what I did for love It's so gorgeous because it just

Says everything and it is it's applies to people in a broad range of industries it applies to but there is something Uniquely special about this desire to be on stage. And it's hard to articulate because it's not necessary. It's not even rational. If you don't have yet the language, like why, Sarah Jessica, why do you want to be on stage? You're eight, you're nine, you're 10. And I wasn't like a showbiz kid. It wasn't like I was tap dancing for my parents and like putting on shows. You know, put on shows. But that show, Priscilla Lopez singing nothing and... Music in the Mirror. I was gonna say, I saw the Jimmy Awards last night and one of the girls did Music in the Mirror and I and she of course went to the finals because it's so winning

It is so sweeping. It is such a journey and you're just you're taken away. I remember I've told you this Yeah, yeah, Jane Krakowski did it on Alex She is so talented it's just crazy I remember even back in the I'm rise was little watching over my aunt's shoulder ever watch Have you ever pulled up on YouTube dear any clips in the original production? Oh, of course It's it's some there's some shaky bootlegs, right? I know thank God for all the bitching and money put your camera down. There's someone up in the balcony And you're like, why did all of us make such a fuss?

Remember that song is such a winning We just won. Yes, yes, yes. When I remember that song. Music in the Mirror. Yeah. Is such a winning song because, and I think that probably what I can relate to and what you're saying, and I'm sure Bo and Ken as well,

is it's like, you're right, what is the question that I'm trying to answer within myself that, cause I feel a certain emotion doing this. I think what I experienced was, I wanna express myself like that. Yeah. Do you think that that's maybe what it is? I don't know if I understood that I wanted to express myself.

I guess I wanted to care. What I understood in the simplest terms was this kind of unmatched necessity to care. Yeah. necessity to care, to be completely devoted, to fillet yourself and without any, with total understanding of the very possible disappointment and heartbreak. But that without the attempt, without the exercise, like the real endeavor, then you would be at a deficit. You would be worse off for not having been heartbroken. Absolutely.

Then you would have been for a path more common. Totally. That's what I did for love. I mean, it's all about putting yourself out there 100% and saying, this is what I'm offering. What I did for love is this is, and the show are about not to get sort of college-y meta about this, but it's about having a passion for a passion.

It's about being passionate about passion. ["Summer of Play"] Get ready for a celebration of play like no other at the all new LEGO Summer of Play event at LEGOLAND Discovery Center Toronto, now through August 3rd. I'm master model builder Noel inviting you to discover your play mode with awesome build activities, experiences, and even some fresh new dance moves. Enjoy the ultimate indoor LEGO playground with rides, a 4D theatre, and millions of

LEGO bricks at LEGOLAND Discovery Center. Build the best day ever with your family by getting tickets online now at legolanddiscoverycenter.com slash Toronto. Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance,

it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts. Every week, I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more to explore the stories that shape us, on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick,

deep diving book talk theories, and obsessing over book to screen casts for years. And now I get to talk to the people making the magic. So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character or cried at the last chapter or passed a book to a friend saying, you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you.

The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it.

So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. From iHeart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is The Turning, River Road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant.

In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him that would be the greatest honor. But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to The Turning River Road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your

podcasts. Were you watching a chorus line thinking in the context of how you had watched musicals before that moment? Or was that just like completely like a first impression of what the form could be would be? Because it felt

pretty it was very groundbreaking at the time. It was groundbreaking because it was so modern and it was without a fourth wall. And it was a person in the house talking to the cast. And they were dressed like nobody had ever dressed. No one ever been costumed like that on Broadway. No one was wearing the rehearsal. Yeah. Where and and it was such a kind of candor on Broadway, no one was wearing rehearsal wear. And it was such a kind of candor about the language

and the way they were talking. And it was like ribald and dirty sometimes. There were inferences that were meant to be funny and sexual and there was homosexuality. And Paul, I think is, God, it would be amazing to play that part. Oh, that's a beautiful, you know, that part. That story of his parents coming and seeing him still dressed as a young woman.

He's like in a, you know, what do you call it? The shows burlesque and Times Square. You know, every single story was A, so well thought out. The book was the cleanest, most perfect. Everything not necessary was gone. Unembellished, yeah. And so I think it was just like perfect. Yeah. And the singing and you know, what's Maggie's song? The greatest of all. Every day was beautiful at the ballet. I mean, that, her singing. You did. Yes. And I loved you when you did that on the way. Her yes, yes, yes, I mean

Because her was I mean, but you know that was actually my first experience actually when I was watching glee and you doing it Oh really? I was a little late to things. Whatever I mean give yourself credit it affected me. I wasn't gonna ask you this Do you find because I'm finding a link here between you pointing out in the book for the chorus line that there's candor and that there's honesty and that there's and then famously you know you become synonymous with candor on television for the first time. Is that something you're attracted to? Is that something that you feel like you're seeking candor? I don, not I don't think so. I don't think it's like a criteria. I think.

I think I like that as a child, because all the musicals, all the musicals that I had. Heard before that were really traditional, like big musicals like Hammer's, you know, like Roger's and Hammerstein and Learnin' Low and like Oklahoma and Showboat. And so I think what struck me so much and the rest of the world was that a chorus line was so intimate and people were talking about their lives on stage that were very different than Shogun even, you know what I mean? Which I loved. But so when I received the script, the pilot script for Sex and City,

I wasn't looking to play like, you know, a sort of New Yorker. Yes. Who was curious about sexual politics and wanted to have intimate comfort. Like I didn't even realize that was a thing that could be told or said. But I certainly was like found it really compelling.

I was, I thought I never read even in pilot form because it's just so minimal really. When you look back, you're like, it was just this. But it was really in plenty to convince me very easily without like any persuasion that it was like, this is different, this is is I haven't heard anyone I haven't heard people have these kinds of conversations and there were plenty of women on television before Mary Richards of course you know and others and Marla Thomas and many others who

forgive me I'm not remembering it's not like women hadn't we weren't like the first women but because I think of that because of our studio, it was HBO. Like, yeah, the rules were very or didn't apply at all. Yeah, I used to I used to wait till my parents would leave the house and I would go to my we had HBO on demand. And I would just mainline. We were from where you raised. Oh, you're from Long Island. Yeah.

From South County. This dream wasn't even that far away But it could have felt far away I guess my answers to one of my answers to the quest our own question is that we went to go see a hairspray Oh, and I just remember the three-part harmony on the the the trio and they hit this insane three three-part harmony belt Well, the girls with the ladies were singing. Um, uh, welcome to the sixth.. Yeah. Yeah, and I believe it was, um, the mama song I just remember hearing those harmonies belted and how joyfully it was and the response from the audience and I burst into the Ears and my mom was like what is wrong and I was like nothing. I don't know exactly but it was it's it's nothing

I don't know that would be a really good name for your memoir You know what? I'm gonna call it? Not For Nothing. Oh really, are you being serious? No, I'm serious. Oh interesting, so then your second book is called, so the first one's called Not For Nothing and the second one's called Nothing I Don't Know. Because also, Nothing I Don't Know could be

Nothing I Don't Know. Right, you know, it was very Nothing I Don't Know because it was. Because you couldn't, you didn't know. That it was- Because you couldn't, or you didn't know. That's why I ask you, was it about expression? Because the tables are turning. I ask you, was it about expression? Because certainly for me it was.

I think I was like, I remember I saw those women and everyone up there dancing and singing and giving it everything, and I think they knew they were a part of something special. And I, all I wanted to do was, I think honestly, when I talk about that belted harmony, it's because of the volume, I wanted to express myself loudly.

And I think there's something about looking at people on a stage and expressing, especially in the show that you point out, wow, it makes me emotional. Like the freedom to express. And that is what you get on stage and at the Jimmy Awards last night, it's just so emotional because-

Can you tell me about the Jimmy Awards? So it's the high school musical theater awards. Oh, is it a G-Y-M-M? Named after James Niederlander. Oh, jeez. The Jimmy Awards. Isn't that the Niederlander? Yeah. Oh, wow.

Yeah, so it's at the Minskoff. Oh, the Minskoff, I'm sorry. But I saw you at the Niederland. Oh, did you? Is that the Niederlander? Yeah. Oh, wow. So it's at the Minskoff. Oh, the Minskoff, I'm sorry. But I saw you at the Niederlander in Plaza Suite. Oh, oh, oh. And I wanted to say- Wait, was it the Niederlander? No, we were at the Hudson. Oh, at the Hudson. Sorry. That's okay, that's okay, that's okay.

But I, that was the last time I guess that, well, I guess we ran into you at SNL 50, but the last time I had physically seen you- But then, did I see it at Smash? Where did I accost you guys? Was it at SNL? That was at SNL. Oh, that's right, it a perfectly fine thing to say to him that's really nice by the way I want to ask you a question a second but I do want to talk about SNL 50. Because actually I was moving past Lauren more recently and I tried to tell him we were at a party.

Another party, a different party, and I tried to say, you know, that was like a perfect night. That was like a perfect night. And I've been trying to figure out a way of writing him a note to say thank you for including us in that night. And it started the weekend with the show and the concert. And it was so much fun. And we don't even go out anywhere. No, no, it's okay. We'll okay.

But I tried to tell Lauren how perfect it was. And I can't imagine. The feat of production. My God. And what went into deciding which ones you were going to do, how hard it would be to be clear-eyed enough to focus and everybody kind of already who rise all the time anyway at 11 o'clock like 11 30 like already that that's so something you guys are all accustomed to so you were like taking like the most well-oiled machine and somehow making it like like a

speed train in Kyoto or you know what I mean like Like a bullet train. A bullet train. So did you guys know that this was like, oh, this is solid. Like, were you like, It was all for sure in, in Lauren's mind up until like the two weeks before. So Lauren, I think was doing his kind of amazing, beautiful mind-esque, like the numbers are sort of like floating around his head. But like for the better part of the fall,

I think for all of the first half of the season of 50, it was like, okay, like what's the show gonna be? Like who should we be out to? Like can we, we need to do like a veil checks and stuff. Yeah. As if somebody would not cross board, with decline. Like anywhere to get there and be part of it.

Well so many people haven't hosted it that you think would be amazing. somebody would not cross board anywhere to get there and be part of it. Well, so many people haven't posted it that you think would be amazing, but it's also very nerve-racking. But it's also like a night for legends. It's a night where you want to repeat, you want to dip back in. It's such a deep well. So I thought, however you came to these decisions, whatever the collective is, first of all, the opening with Paul Simon

and Sabrina Carpenter, which is like perfect. And so sentimental, like already. Then and now. They already hit like a triple. Total hell. You know, like she was perfect, and she like held back just the right, like it was so elegant and he was so touching and it's so sentimental and it's so nostalgic.

Yeah. You know my brothers grew up watching that show, the very first episode, like your show and that show. But anyway, so already you could tell, like it was, you know, when you get off to a start like that, you're like. Sure, you're so right. It's like, I think probably that was the thought that went into it from Lauren's end.

It was just like, let's just make sure this is cozy and comfortable for everyone in the room, everyone at home. We're in good hands all the way through. And then you come out with, you know, Steve Martin coming out. So fun. Mulaney, Martin Short.

It's like all these heavy hitters. And then it's just, it was to me, this like four dimensional photo mosaic of like everyone who's had the same shared experience of being on that show. And it meant everything that like my closest friends were there. Matt was there,

Sooty was there, our best friend Sooty, Celeste, our co-writer who we're working with now. I mean, it was just this like complete tapestry of like the human experience and how all of it has this optimistic sort of like encasing around it, which is like, it's gonna be okay. Like for all of like the like slings and errors that people suffer in the system and outside of it, it is like, it's gonna be okay. Like, for all of the slings and errors that people suffer in the system and outside of it,

it's like, everyone's here and they're telling you about the kids that they have, the families that they've grown, like the lives that they've had since they've been at the show. You know, it was really hard in the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the aughts, whatever. Every era of the show is not totally unique

because it's like, oh, it's all been set against the backdrop of whatever political chaos was happening.'s like, oh, it's all been set against the backdrop of whatever political chaos was happening at the time and like it's our job to like Bring some levity in whatever way we can in whatever media environment that is like Out there. I mean like I was like no one's gonna watch this like it's like no everyone's attentions are pulled in a million different directions but every every so often there's a cultural event that. Is able to sit everybody down.

Yeah. Yep. And and you want it to be in real time, like all of the new and the ways in which I like have like an allergy to watching television. Like that, too, was the thing is like, no, it's going. You don't want to watch it tomorrow. Right. There's no. Zeitgeist moment that is that is literally not a sports event. Not a sports event. Oh, yeah, right. But I remember like this is odd.

But like I remember when we were little, I remember watching Who Wants to be Millionaire when the first person won a million dollars. And it was like the world exploded like I remember when Richard H little, I remember watching Who Wants to Be Millionaire when the first person won a million dollars, and it was like the world exploded. Like I remember when Richard Hatch won Survivor, not me talking about only reality. Kelly Clarkson, winning a grand final. But like, you know, all these things are, that's what SNL 50 was recreating.

And I think that it makes you proud to be a New Yorker too, because obviously it's so synonymous. And I think that must also give you a sense of pride as well. There are great musicals that are about New York and important choreography, but I think because this contemporary thing keeps giving us this experience every weekend and it is only could be home in New York. And you know a show can go on the road and touch people all over the country and the globe frankly

but New York continues to be like this export like we don't get to send art as far in the ways we used to like it was such a crisscrossing of the ocean it was such an effort and now we're tossing stuff, but this is a New York show. It employs thousands and thousands and thousands of thousands of New Yorkers. I'm sure generations have gone through that studio of people on the crew side. You know, there's endless stories of the way

in which it is a New York show. The guys at the deli. So you're it is a New York show. The guys at the deli. So you're a real fan of that show. Are you like in Saturday Night Live, Dying in the Wool? You know, there's a period when I started having children that I tapped out of baseball and I tapped out of anything that was late.

Because I just didn't, especially if I was shooting and being a parent, it just, all of a sudden it didn't factor, like I couldn't carve the time out. But it's really interesting when you have children after a while, what their interests are and what they're talking about can bring you back home. Right, oh, what time that happened? My son is a massive baseball fan

and so it came back into our life because he became much more, you know, he was dictating conversation at the table. And then of course they're all watching us and now they're talking about it and then telling us and re, you know, and pulling stuff up on their phones of scenes and instances and whatever. So the way in which it kind of disappeared, not entirely, but I wasn't able to stay up. Of course.

You know? Yeah. That's not so much the case anymore. Sure. But for you to give the imprimatur of New Yorkness onto that show is meaningful just coming from another New York show. I'm just so happy to hear that you guys had a great time because you're right. It was fantastic.

The people in the room were you, Matthew, Lady Gaga, Cher, for God's sake. Oh, come on. I mean, it was like and like, you know, we couldn't believe we were like, oh, my God, like everyone was rubber neck. It was so crazy. And then like even the entrance and, you know, getting your ticket and, you know, Matthew was convinced we weren't going to watch it in the room because they ushered us to this really lovely like cocktail area. The lounge.

And then I felt Matthew's spirit. It's slightly he's like I think we're in the lounge to watch it and I said that's okay we're all it's oh we're on this floor right we're on the eighth floor, right? The eighth floor. The eighth floor. And, um. They moved you in. And then the woman was like, no, you're, you come right this way. We love this place for you guys. I didn't expect you. Get ready for a celebration of play like no other

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Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more to explore the stories that shape us, on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep-diving book talk theories, and obsessing over book-to-screen casts for years. And now I get to talk to the people making the magic. So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character or cried at the last chapter or passed a book to a friend saying, you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app.

Apple podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News.

It's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you. The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.

The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. So, Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. From iHeart Podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is The Turning, River Road.

I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to ten girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt.

For all those years, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to The Turning River Road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. By the way, you know where I just saw Matthew at the Mets game? Oh yeah, of course he was. Was he there? Is he there all the time? Yeah, he's there as much as possible.

Do you ride hard for the Mets or are you Yankees and is it a torn up household? Oh, it's such a complicated thing because we like, our whole courtship was like the late 90s Yankees because everybody, everybody was, everybody was. Tough times to be a Mets fan then because the Yankee, you guys would not shut up. But we weren't that kind of Yankees fan because that's always been objectionable to me. But we did. We were in a couple ticker tape parades when they went in. And we didn't have kids then.

So like you know we could, our dream was we were going to travel. We didn't get to go on a honeymoon because we were both working. But our travel dream was we were either going to go to Vietnam or we were going to go on a honeymoon because we were both working. But our travel dream was we were either going to go to Vietnam or we were going to go to all the baseball stadiums across the country before they were torn down. So many of them torn down. Oh God, I know. I miss Shay. Yeah, I miss the charm of Shay. My dad used to ride his bike from Long Island and hop the fence and he would just watch games at Shay. Like riding it from Lindon. Matthew was sort of taught that you hop the fence and he would just watch games at Shea. Like, writing it from Lyndon Hirsch. Matthew, I mean, Matthew was sort of taught that you hop. You hop.

He was raised as a Mets fan. His father took him to Mets games. Yep. So it was always hard. And then when they would have Subway Series, it was really hard. It's just that this late 90s Yankee team was just heavenly. And we, you know, it was them. But we love the Mets, too.

And there's been many times when it's been really hard. Sure. Oh, because because because the thing with the Mets is they're either really good or really bad. I know. But man, being watching watching the Mets fan, like our house, like I'm like, we believe, oh, my God, you got to believe what is the temperature going to be? Like when Matthew, I walked in there on the day of the day and I was like, what, what, what? Like I was scared of like some horrible news

that had just arrived over the wire. And he's like, they just blew, you know, they just blew a seven run. That's part of being a Mets fan. I know, I know. It's just really the tragedy and the glory. No, I know, I know. It just really affects the house though. The tragedy and the glory. No, I know, I know.

But you gotta be true blue. I go, gentlemen, come on boys. Sure. Oh no, you have to be true blue. But you're saying it divides the house along what lines? Well, meaning it doesn't really divide the house except that there are times when, there were times when both were playing that we,

I was like, I felt kind of bad about, I didn't know where to put my, I didn't know where to align because I love both teams. It's very hard to have to choose, to have two great hometown teams. Now Matthew wouldn't be quite as equivocating. Right. So is it because you think of like the Yankees, you think of the New York Grander and then there's also the Matswets with that underdog like union spirit almost That's I think I told connected my dad to the whole attitude is like the Met Well in the old days the Yankees had all the money to you know hire players and the Mets were a scrappy like Pull it that was the feeling that was kind of like the color of the the tone of the sentiment around and you know

Yankee fans were wealthy. This the yes not necessarily true. This was kind of you know I painted my nails white for you guys White nails in my whole life, and they're gonna come off the second But I feel like that was always a feeling I I don't know if that's true or if that's based in any reality. That's just anesthesia with these baseball teams. And I know a lot of his regional, I know that Queens tends to obviously are Mets fans

and upper New York or Yankees fans. Like all the geography makes sense, but I don't know how you pick a team. Well, I think it's like, it really is like, your spirit can be very broken when you are the, when you are the underdog team again and again and again. But I also think it's more fun. Like, I think it's always fun to-

Of course it is, how about those wins, what they mean? You know, it's fun to win all the time, but not, but you can, it can do something to you when you come to expect glory and victory in this way and almost give an entitlement. And I think that's what I resented about Yankee fans that were around me is that they felt they were better than me, you know what I mean?

That's what it was. And I remember, maybe this happened to your family at some point, but one day I think I was just like wanting to test the waters. And I walked into my dad and I was like, I'm a Yankees fan And I bought all this Jeter merch I think I thought you really were a Yankees fan if you know what I'm saying

You know who I was a big fan of was Mariah Carey and they were dating Who was a genius Did you like Tino Martinez too? Oh my god, I love Tino Martinez first base So he would wear a batter's helmet while he played in the field Oh fun He was one of the only ones. So this is like deep in my head.

And remember- What did your father, what was his, was he just like, brrr? My dad, you know what's funny? Is he reacts now to the TV when Trump is on, the way he used to react when things would go down with the team. And I thought over the years he had calmed down,

but then let- Go down with the team. But now it's politics. But had calmed down, but then let, but now it's politics. But last year when the Mets were really in it again, he was yelling at the TV again. And I was like, you know what, it kind of was nice. It kind of took me back a little bit. You know? Oh, it's great.

But I remember like, yeah, that was before theater for me. Yeah. It was like sports and. Well, sports is theater. I mean, my God, the drama. Absolutely. In our house, and we can move on honestly in our house You'll hear like through the house. I don't know if you guys do this There's a thing about clapping when you get runs like yeah, it's not like golf clapping. It's like

Dispirited clap. Yeah, it's like this kind of clap that I'm like, ah, like oh That's better for all of us Is good. Yeah. We did skip over, so you talked about hairspray, but what was your... You're asking us the question? I'm just curious because you had to talk about your hairspray experience. But I don't know, and maybe I should, sorry, but... I mean, no, no, no. Why should you know?

I mean, what was, as it relates to theater? No, that cultural... Oh, it's a? I mean, what was, as it relates to theater or just- No, that cultural- Oh, it's a lot of different answers every day. That's okay. I will say today, probably apropos of you being here, you are on the top, at the top of the show, I was kind of unlocking all these Once Upon a Mattress memories for myself,

and it was going to the library and picking up your recording of Once Upon a Mattress as well as, because this was 2003, as well as the Wicked soundtrack, the Wicked recording. And both of those figure very heavily into my life. But just, it was hearing you sing Shy, it was hearing you sing, you know, like Spanish Panic or doing like the,. You know all those things

But I mean it's a musical that I love We have funny not everybody loves that musical. I just jazzy and fun. Yeah funny and Fun I we went I took my aunt to go see the new skit almost it's like a sketch And the new one that Amy Sherman Palladino did the new book for Talking about oh with a Sutton. Yeah, I didn't get to see that It was really much funnier than I thought it was gonna be and because you know It had been modernized and it had been punched up for a modern audience But I left with a big smile it really it really was great and I it actually made me Excited about reviving stuff like that. Yeah that because there's a little part of me that really is excited

about where theater is going. I'm sure you've seen everything, but Sunset Boulevard. And I mean, you know, whatever is happening with Evita right now with Rachel's, I go on the West End. I love the choice. So Jamie Lloyd, that's what you like. Jamie Lloyd, the biggest thing in theater,

Jamie Lloyd. We know where we're going. We're going to Gypsy tomorrow. Tomorrow we're gonna see Gypsy. Oh, I haven't seen it yet. That's my second time We know where we're going we're gonna see tomorrow we're gonna see you gypsum I mean it's right. I'm gonna try Audra is She's just giving Everything and I don't think I usual well. Yes, I I don't think I had really Understood and appreciated the choice to take Rose's turn up, which took it out of her comfort zone purposefully to show the anguish,

because I really feel like this gypsy is exploring Rose as mentally ill, and I think that's such an interesting and fascinating way to go about it, and so I guess that's what I mean about this stuff coming back, you're kind of like, you know, you hear about some things going on stage or some person being a part of some revival and you're like, why?

And then you give the opportunity and you see why. And once upon a mattress, it's just a fun breeze and it's a blast, the jokes were hard, which is I find rare, but you know, it was great. I mean it just opened my eyes to because growing up Colorado in suburbs Funny that you grew up in Colorado. Yeah, it's like I don't Why is that weird? Why is that like why not? But why not? I just I think because I feel like you are such a urban person, thank you. Yeah. And urbane.

And no, because I think, you know, I didn't I didn't get to see you as you arrived. Of course. And for sure, I'm sure I was always like that. I bet you were. But, you know, you take on a little bit of something else. I just it's so funny because I that's just silly and small of me. I'm not suggesting that that won't exist in other parts of the, I just think of you very citified.

But between the three of us, it's like, our essences have kind of like merged with the city. You know what I mean? It's like we're all like. Yeah, which probably happens wherever you go and stay. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. But I've hit a milestone recently that I'm still not totally sure how I feel about,

which is 34 years old officially hitting 17 years in the city, so it's halfway life. Wow, wow, yes. So I'm like, oh. Yeah. This is, and you know what, this is like a conversation that like Josh Sharpe and I, our friend Josh and Cole at school that I have had like a few years ago,

we're just like, gosh, are we just? Because our friends, there's this big exodus to LA. Which happens a lot. I was gonna ask you guys next, like how is it that we've kept you in New York? Like is that? Well it's been work for me, but then like our friends are just like,

are we just like the lifers here? Or are we just like the welcoming community for any like new people who come? And like we're there with like the greeting package or something. And now Matt's fully a New Yorker again, which I'm very very happy about What neighborhood you know, I'm in Olita. Oh you are. Oh interesting Here that as much lately, you know what? I'm nice to hear so you're on the receiving end of the Elizabeth Gardens being saved

I just found out about it today. I have to did? I just have to tell you, I did get a little emotional because I thought like, it's a little Carrie Bradshaw. I kind of lived because I'm single and I'm feeling good about that again. Yeah. And I'm- Good. Yeah, and I feel like I'm-

Do you have a pretty apartment? Is it pretty? You know what? It's like Carrie's was. Is it really? I love those apartments. It's charming and it's comfortable. And I am-

Are you walking up? Yeah, you're walking up. You know, I'm not walking up because it's fine. Do you have an elevator? There is one elevator. Oh, that's amazing on those streets. Yeah, yeah. See-

Cause those are smaller buildings. It is, it is my dream come true. So I'm still exploring. Okay. So you might need to write some things down for me. I'm gonna look at this afterwards. That would make my life, I'll frame it. That is, if I'm still exploring okay, so I'm gonna look at this afterwards. I would make my life. I'll frame it is If I'm correct because I know it is on the

East-west yeah, I know it's on that street the cross street. I'm I feel less confident about but if I'm right That is a sandwich shop It's just as well a deli like it's not it's a nothing yeah, that's not true everything is but it's not it just says Bada Deli like it's not it's a nothing. Yeah, that's not true Everything is but it's not like I don't think people are lining up with their cameras and shooting it I think it's just the real deal. It's a breeze You know what I mean? Like it feels exciting and I think honestly I got chased out of New York for a lot of like You know reasons for in here and then all of a sudden I felt like I was called home and I will say It is harder day to day. Yeah. But it is so worth it. Yeah. Like I find that New York, it does toss those challenges your way.

They're just like, well, I asked for this. Yeah. It's hot as hell. I know. You can't move. There's no, yeah. There is no easy way to get places. But I will say you're compelled. Yeah. And like that's all I ever really, it's like when I was little watching that show, I was compelled. New York compels. And I, during the pandemic. It asks a lot of, oh sorry, keep going. No just like being forced to be away. I remember I came back and like I walked the streets even though it was raining and I literally was having like an as if we said goodbye moment. And I was just like, God, and I was emotional because memories everywhere.

And you're only really ever going to have one home like that. Yeah, no, it's pretty it's pretty special. I wish it were more hospitable to those who feel that kind of dream because it's just right now It's just it's very it's just prohibitive financially and um, I would love for others to be able to try to make it their home and and and have it be a real possibility and and Maybe we will maybe we will find more affordable housing for ours You know our communities and you know, like maybe that is not insane because I think so I guess I feel like I want to go back for a second and just say it's amazing that people are moving back to New York so somebody else I know

just is moving back to me back to New York I feel like it's such a that is such a prodigal return usual thing's a usual thing to be hearing. Yes. So I feel as if we're not losing people in the same way we I think. Well, I felt we were that there is a kind of buoyancy maybe again, if not, if we're not 100 percent, at least we don't seem like this forbidding place. Sure. So some somewhere people are still thinking

you can maybe make it happen there. And I'm sure just to go back to what we're talking about at the beginning of this episode, I'm sure what a lot of the projection that people throw at people must when they see you, when they get excited, they must dump a lot of that ambition in that that like just that the way that they wish the city was hospitable. You are a landmark. You know what I mean?

I'm happy to be on like the repository for the dumping. That's all right. That's all right. That's a huge role. But speaking of New York, how, and you brought Bridget Everett earlier, how did you get to know those people? Like Bridget, like Amy Sedaris, like.

Andy. Like Andy, like that is such a fun downtown crowd and like I've always been curious about like how you got in with them. Okay, so I remember the order. Amy and I met, Matthew and I worshiped Amy Sedaris. We saw her, you know, on Letterman basically, which is she was like a regular, you know? Yeah, best. Any time someone would cancel, she'd like run. It was like, she was the greatest. So this was in the late 90s.

And then so we really like together. It was like the things we loved were the Yankees, Ab Fab and Amy Sedaris. And of course, David, but he wasn't making as many appearances on commercial television as Amy was. But she was still niche. Like it wasn't like you could walk the streets and talk about Amy Sedaris. It was a it was much more valued like You can find your people in that reference

Kind of like Cole so then yeah Yeah, so then Amy and I came to know each other because I was gonna do a play off-broadway at MTC mainstage Yep I was gonna do a play off Broadway, at MTC Main Stage. I was gonna do a play, that David Lindsay, a Bear play, and it was his follow-up to Fuddy Mears, which is one of my most favorite shows ever, plays ever. And we were supposed to start rehearsals on September 11th, 2001.

And we had made contact, you know, I basically did it because Amy and and I love David Lindsay Bear and so We that morning I was up early to be on time for rehearsal and get to the subway and I was downstairs and Matthew and I lived low low Manhattan. So we live south of Houston and I was watching the Today show getting ready for my first day of school and I was screaming at him. And then I said, I have

to go. I'm going to be late for rehearsal. And he said, I don't think there is going to be rehearsal today. So I called Amy, who I didn't really yet know, and I said, I don't think there is going to be rehearsal today. So I called Amy, who I didn't really yet know, and I said, I'm worried about being late. And she said, I don't think there's going to be rehearsal today. So anyway, we became friends, and we took the subway home together every day, and we shared a dressing room. And she very graciously just allowed us to infiltrate.

And she became a big part of our lives. And I always said, I repeated, you know that I always thought like She she always says that she's a wedge in our marriage But I was like, but they really have great chemistry and he really loves her so much Like he admires her so much and then Scottie Whitman used to do a bunch of plays He directed at La Mama and Cole was always in them Yeah, and Bridget was or Ginger as I call her and so then and then Ginger would come out east all the time and stay and then she ended up just

staying at our house for I think she lived at our house for um and you know the world is the social circles are tiny and you just keep bumping into people if you're lucky. And if you are behaving basically as a decent person, you can stick around. Yeah. Right. Did you ever like? It's pretty amazing, Cole. I mean, like, is there a better story in the world?

Can you think of one? Probably not. I mean, like it's one of those things too, where I gotta say it's always been like that. We've always said that they were our hero. Like I remember that goes all the way back. I mean, that's what people don't really know. And I think they're knowing it now

because there's a lot of press about Cole, but you know, truly always thinking like no one else. And that was what was so inspiring. And it was funny, like, we had to answer some interview questions earlier and it was like, who is your mentor? And I was like, I just gotta say, I don't really have mentors,

but I do have these influences. And he was one of them. And I just wonder for you, when you come to New York, were you seeing a lot of experimental stuff? Were you seeing all of it? Did you know Liz Suedos? My brother was in the,

my brother was in Runaways, the first original cast. She was my mentor too. No way. At NYU, yeah. Oh, that's right, because, so she taught there. Okay, so when I was doing Annie on Broadway, my brother was in Runaways down about four blocks

down south, not even four blocks. With Diane Lane? With Diane Lane, he was in the original company. He was in public and on Broadway. I auditioned for Runaways too, didn't I get it? Nor should I have gotten it. But so we met at 49th Street because we had to take the N in the R to the tram every night. So I loved Liv Suedos. I loved that show. Make sure your listeners pull up that cast album. That cast album is incredible. You know there was an episode. You know it. I don't know runaways. He almost worked with I almost worked with

Many many times I was very close. Oh Yeah, yeah No, it's fine. I honestly like I love honoring her on this test and she actually came up earlier today We are you really well just because we were answering those questions They asked me that mentor question and I was like, you know, trying to find it and I was a little frustrated with myself and then I realized that's who it was. It was Liz because she just explored all these sides of me and like the way she let me see myself. And I think that's what like great

influences... I think she was uniquely good at that though. She had a real energy and she, I remember remember she just when I first auditioned for her We were tish it was but I wasn't an acting student. I was a I don't want to make this about me Very very closeted But like I said very passionate Kid that wanted to do this and I think that she more than anyone else in my life,

like allowed me to see myself as limitless. And I do think that that's such a gift to give someone who's a young performer, is to like the knowledge that you can be anything. And she really took away my fear and emboldened creativity in me and like made me aware of my stage presence. And it was a way, it was like she would look you

in the eyes and gave you a gift, even just doing that. And gave you fearlessness. And that is like, that's why I ask is because we're talking about these people that energetically really have her spirit. And so I felt compelled to ask you if you knew her. Yeah, it's funny, Because I probably wouldn't otherwise. And she was really she's really, really

talented and very, you know, if anyone can find their way to runaways and just really watch that show, it's it's pretty freaking extraordinary show and it's brutal. And what Josie de Guzman, Diane, Toby, my brother Toby who went on to do the original, he was in the original Rent as well, he did all of Jonathan's shows from Naked Angels and Tic Tic Boom. See that's what I'm talking about and I loved the Tic Tic Boom movie that Lin-Manuel did

so much to because it got that spirit. I remember like when he showed those rehearsal rooms, I felt like I could smell them. Like the light coming in the window on those third floor studios. It just brought me so back and it's hard and I wonder like, how do you remind yourself to be fearless when you're so established, I suppose. Because I think that's something that we're running into, is it's harder to be fearless as you become more established. Yeah.

I don't know, you just try to make interesting choices. And doing Plaza Suite was really terrifying. It's just absolutely terrifying. And playing each of us, we're playing three parts. And they're not anything like us.'re not yeah it's a different generation and politics were different and women were different and sexual politics was different and people sounded like where they were from there were regional accents and manner and behavior and it was absolutely terrifying but I couldn't

not do it so there are lots of ways in which you can stay Will feel like you've always felt like what is the job right? What how will it what I mean the only difference now is You know How long is it taking me away from my family at this point? That's the that's the only new Part of the math of making decisions. It's pretty much all the same. It's just now. The two of you were just glowing together. I remember, I talked, she went with James Cully. Oh great. And we were watching it and just, there's a moment,

I believe it's the top of Act Two, where you come out in the blue dress. Oh yeah. And the audience is just euphoric for seeing you in this outfit. And we looked at each other like, well come on. And I mean, but, and then just like the kinetic energy that you guys have together,

you really are incredible scene partners. And I wonder. We never really worked together though. Yeah, I was gonna ask. I was so, so nervous making, but. That opportunity is brave in and of itself. I would imagine there's something courageous. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna like.

Yeah, it was kind of scary. Just because, I mean, it was scary for all the reasons that I'm always nervous every time I get a job or do a job or start a job. I'm always like, basically not really function as a calm person. Like the first two or three weeks of every job are just awful. They're really incredibly unpleasant. Well, is is like, well, really? Yeah, just nervous and sick and like nuts, not sick, but like, yeah, you're in your. Yeah, there's something in your body that's like, is it like, well, really? Yeah, just nervous and sick and like not not sick, but like,

oh, yeah, you're in your. Yeah, there's something in your body that's like, is it like that even when you revisit Carrie? Every single season, really? Because I was going to ask. I'm always sort of struck by the idea. Do you feel that? Not every season of SNL?

No, not at all. I mean, I'm just like perpetually nervous and that just hasn't changed. But I guess- Me too, no, no, no, me too. But I asked Cynthia this, I was like, was it, what was the reacclamation to Miranda? And she was like, no, she's kind of in me. I was like, that's incredible.

But I was, I'm always struck by the idea that you never watched Dailies, most of Sex and the City you haven't seen back. Is part of the answer to the question that Matt's asking, is it to eliminate the things that would engender fear? Because, yeah, to watch to watch yourself back is not productive for me. It makes it. And it is for Cynthia. Like Cynthia is a perfect example of someone who can watch Dailies

and have it be helpful, useful. And for me It's paying attention. I just want to be I just want the work to be good Like I don't need to see a playback on the set ever Okay, I don't need to see dailies if there's something radically wrong I'm gonna have known about it long before that comes back to from the studio the next day I will have felt it on the set. I have so, I have like, I'm like a whip it. You know, I'm like so like this.

I want so much for the work to be good that anything that feels peripheral isn't helpful to me. It's not candor. It's not candor. I think it's honestly, I think you are, I think you really do seek honesty. I really, because you are the most. Cynthia would say that she can seek honesty from those dailies but I just, we're just made differently. It's a process. Right, right. But is, in the

absence of that sort of reflection, like what is your way of tracking Carrie cracking Carrie through all the years? Talking to Michael all the time. Asking a lot of, not asking questions because I'm not a trained actor. So I'm not asking questions. I'm not asking subtext questions, which I keep to myself. I'm asking questions, sort of like a, for instance of, but if she's saying that, or she's behaving this way, or she makes this gesture, or she wears that, then don't we want to be thoughtful about

that? Or if you're asking, if it's written this way, is there a landmine on the way to the next thing? And sometimes Michael Patrick will say to me, you don't know what I know. And I'll say, I don't, and I don't want to. I don't like to read the script until the night before the table read because I have so much work to do in this present moment

that if I start knowing what Carrie's gonna do next, then I'm like, not here. Or he'll say to me, wow, Carrie's going to do next. I then I'm like, they're not here. Or he'll say to me, wow, that's a I didn't see that. You're right. That's a good point. Wait a minute. Let me think about that. Maybe we should back off that or maybe you're right to pay attention to the kind of language here, because maybe we don't like I'm very I'm always on them about language.

I'm like, she's right. Or she's right. Or she's right. Or so she'd be thoughtful about the way she's expressing things like does she use the f-word a lot? Maybe not because she's always Considering and considering and her observational life has been like her Meal ticket. Yeah. Yeah, so I want to be thoughtful about language because it's the only way she's in the world thoughtful literally full of thoughts Right. Yeah, and it's that's really interesting, especially because you're talking about how like that's our jacket Sorry, I love it I love that but you're in the in speaking about like literally the character of Carrie Bradshaw One of the things that I think is so incredible about Carrie is that she is far from perfect

She'd be very easy to judge. And I wonder how people do know. Well, I wonder how many times. Well, that's a good thing. I'm saying that that's the point. I mean, but literally she made, I think, one of the most famous mistakes in television history talking about. Well, when she cheated, you know what I mean?

Like like men have been doing forever. Well, yes, but I mean, Like men have been doing forever. Exactly. As leads on shows and in movies and people are like, I love him. This is the actual question I'm asking is how much do you judge her? And how much are you like Carrie when she does something that you don't like? I mean, she's a fictional character. I think people make mistakes and smart people do silly, stupid things and they use poor judgment and they fall really short often.

Yeah. The best of us are fall short and you know, we forgive us, forgive us our trespasses if we forgive those. I mean, I kind of think if Carrie Bradshaw were somebody who was absolutely reliable to, to resist in that instance, the temptation of Big and Big who followed her around, who orbited in a solar system that seemed to only include the two of them. Narcissistic abuse. You know, maybe.

Let's say it. Apparently that's a new, those are new words for me. But I, then I'm not entirely sure what is the show right who is this person if she is only making really solid predictable choices and choosing and it's not it's not a recipe for all of us to live by that's what makes it It's like there's an altered state to sex in the city. There's like it's not entirely The emotional life is rooted in truth, but its existence has always felt to me like slightly technicolor.

Yeah. On a higher vibration. Altered. Yeah. Like the city looks like this. Yeah. And the clothes look like this. And there's like a time warp of. Like time suspends and you can be with people you love for long periods of time which does not exist for all of us no matter how much we love our friends and love has this sort of like extra dose of some kind of adrenaline

fueled you know it's consuming Say to him I want love I want I am someone who is looking for love and that we were Love and if you want It's great. We can't have I Mean you don't spend time on HBO being perfect No, and one of my favorite characters in the world is Tony Soprano. Oh, yes. Forever. And but that is not a man who made great. Well, hello.

I'm curious how many people did not interrogate those same things about him, nor should they have, because it was just beautiful writing and brought us into the life of somebody who we wouldn't normally feel such compassion for. Yeah, I'm not comparing. I'm just saying it's curious. No, no. How little tolerance we have for a woman. feel such compassion for it. So I'm not comparing, I'm just saying it's curious how little tolerance we have for a woman falling short. Of course it's that, but also it's like,

we project onto Carrie because we want to be her. Whereas we really don't want to be Tony Soprano. So there's a- Maybe we want to be Jimmy, there was something really, well yeah, you want the swagger and you want like the ability to take over. I guess the intensity and the complexity. Yes, but it's almost like,

I feel like when people can expect something of you, like you can fail them. And I think that Carrie Bradshaw is an aspirational, this is why it's, I asked the initial question of like, that must feel sometimes a little intense because she is the woman who took over New York And and started you know smoking her cigarettes taking off her shoes on the street

And now you know we've seen her all these years, and we've been with her Yet we didn't need to see all her growth to from the beginning know that we wanted to be her be one of her friends Are you a carry a Miranda? Charlotte or Samantha? You know what I mean? That's a question for a reason. And so when that is true, my opinion is that is why we're often hard on people. But I wouldn't do that, and I'm Carrie, I am. You know what I mean?

Yeah, that's so interesting. I wouldn't do that but I'm Carrie, yeah. I've never heard that, that's really great. And I'm not privy to all of the chatter, so I'm just, um, Kristin Davis always keeps me posted in ways that sometimes I'm like, oh, God, you don't have to tell me they're...

I don't want to hear what anyone has to say. Plus, which it doesn't help me. But I'm thrilled that people have feelings. Like, how great. Of course. The treat of watching Carrie now is just that you're like, and this is just a testament to your acting, which I can't really quite still can't square with the fact

that you don't watch anything back. It's just that like, this is Carrie. This is Carrie like decades in, in this beautiful way. You know, it's like, it's still like, I mean this last episode with Carrie and Ada and it was the perfect extrapolation of what I watched as a non-New Yorker now thinking, oh, but that's Sarah Jessica. That's Sarah Jessica shepherding this person into a cross time in a way that I think that we love. And we should say, when we were talking about the scene with Aiden we are this will come out in a few weeks

Yes, like we're a little bit behind something may have happened with Aiden since we're talking about Carrie Again, I didn't love that. She did this but gave him the goddamn key I was like you really are giving these men the access and then this one going to my own I know she has to believe. I know she has to believe, but she has to want more for herself too. No, but then, and then we did watch on the way here. I knew you would do this.

I'm humiliated. I'm humiliated. What an amazing sequence. Incredible sequence. Get ready for a celebration of play like no other at the all new LEGO Summer of Play event at LEGOLAND Discovery Center Toronto. Now through August 3rd. I'm master model builder Noel, Celebration of play like no other at the all-new LEGO Summer of Play event at Legoland Discovery Centre Toronto, now through August 3rd.

I'm master model builder Noel inviting you to discover your play mode with awesome build activities, experiences and even some fresh new dance moves. Enjoy the ultimate indoor LEGO playground with rides, a 4-day theatre and millions of LEGO bricks at Legoland Discovery Centre. Build the best day ever with your family by getting tickets online now at legolanddiscoverycenter.com slash Toronto. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories

and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcast. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers and more to explore the stories that shape us, on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving book talk theories and obsessing

over book to screen casts for years. And now I get to talk to the people making the magic. So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character, or cried at the last chapter, or passed a book to a friend saying, you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car

into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you. The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence,

you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. For My Heart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is The Turning, River Road.

I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and in thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor. But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to The Turning, River Road, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can we just talk about filming that? Like the wedding sequence?

The library. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The library, which obviously had to have meaning for you as well because you're so close to it and then you are creating this iconic thing, but like, you don't watch that back, that sequence, because you really killed it, girl. I really remember, I remember, you know, we had to, Michael really wanted us to go to the premiere and sit through it and don't, so. So you did see that?

I did, it wasn't like pleasant, but. Sure, sure. Meaning like, I don't wanna watch myself for that long laugh. Of course, you were proud. And also, is it, you're an anguish. That scene I remember really shooting because we were trying to, I'll have this piece of tape off by the time we finish. We were trying to protect the plot, which was crazy thought that we could do it on 43rd

Street between 6th and 5th. And we were all, they had us in a hotel room as you know they do. They got to put you somewhere while they're setting up the shot. And so we were all in a hotel room together waiting to shoot that scene. And I didn't know how you know there's so much and you both are your actors. You know there's like a huge amount of thinking you can do about something. And some people prepare, really prepare. And I think about things a lot. And I learn my lines. But I don't really have a set plan because it's so much about the other party.

Like I can have all the plans in the world but that means that it's potentially, it's likely I'm not hearing a god-darn thing you're saying or doing. Totally. So I had no idea how we were gonna do this scene. I had no idea how I was going to be. Yeah not a lot on the page either at all. No and it's just I think that's a really great example of Michael Patrick like really setting the table and teeing it all up really, really well and just calling action and not getting in anybody's way. There was no right or wrong way. I didn't hear him in my head saying I knew it, whatever those lines where I knew you

were going to do this or whatever. But there was so much truth I think the entire time in my head now that I'm calling this was this Probably this this fear that he actually was capable of that Not gonna shut like there was gonna be a part of him even a psychic part of him that didn't show up So anyway that scene and just people around and us trying not to have anyone take pictures of the flowers and the petals Right and those were real real flowers. Yeah thorns and everything on the stems I mean those were real roses for all their beauty and all their danger Wow It's so brilliantly directed when we were just watching it and I was like Cynthia here. Oh my god Kim

Oh, I'm like, what Lisa Kristen's doing and I'll just that how about when Christian just says no No, and we Said I was like no it was primal primal and I wanted to know do you remember? This is an insane question were there two nos in the script or was I think there was one Is so it's it's it's it's I'll call you guys later and ask Kristen. We have to know. It's just iconic and also. And that dress that she can barely walk in.

It's what's his name? Zach. It's Zach Posen's dress. Yeah. That black one. And that dress. The little comedic beat at the end of her tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip. And she can't. She doesn't have any movement in it. I love it.

And that's that's also that's so specific. That's Kristen though. I mean, I have to say, like like that's how Kristen is about us. Yeah. Like don't mess with us. Yes. Meaning she will not let anyone hurt us. Love. She will jump in front of a bear, a train, a bull. She is that is her nature. It was a mission statement for that character.

Like that protection. And also just like, you know, the way that every character was like immediately filling into a utility to protect one of their family members. Yeah, like everybody had their job. It was just, yeah, I remember that about it. Yeah, just the way that Cynthia looks at him afterwards, like so deeply, because I always thought

that the relationship between Miranda and Big was always fascinating. Yes. Because they're like, I feel like Miranda always saw Big, always knew something that everyone didn't. And of course it was informed by like, you know, sort of like... The version that Carrie would tell either of them about, oh Miranda said this to Big said this today.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's why, and maybe I have this wrong, we don't have some more time on this, but I think that's why it's so, I'm not, I don't expect you guys to know the answer to this, but it's possible that Miranda says go get our girl in Paris, when Carrie's in Paris with Piotrowski, I think she's the one that says to Big go get our girl. Which is interesting that she is basically endorsing Carrie and Big. Totally.

You know. But also, including herself in that arrangement of our. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of the best. And what you're describing on the day is, even though you're saying there's no process, the process is led by a candor. You know, by this honesty that you just don't,

you need to know what Chris is don't, you need to know what Chris is gonna do, or not to know what he's gonna do, but you need to just play off of what he's gonna do. Or you know. The best thing you can do as an actor, it's the best thing is to not be too prepared. Be prepared. To feel that way too.

Be on time, be on time. On time, nice. Be on time, learn your lines, know your lines. I don't care what genre of filmmaking you're at, On time. On time, nice. Be on time. Learn your lines. Know your lines. I don't care what genre of filmmaking you're at unless you're doing, unless it's entirely improvised. Sure, sure. Other than that, know your lines.

Well, you know what though? And then, just listen, see what happens. It's the best. Well, another show I loved. I loved Divorce. But I worked with Molly Shannon on a show called I Love That For You. And I remember we were in the makeup trailer one day and she looked at me and she goes how much do you look at the line? And I go

Notes in her yeah script walking around with the script and she's got all of my love the way she loves to When she's walking around with the script and she's got all of her. Oh, I love the way she loves to orient herself I learned a lot from it. Yes, I learned so much from her. Right? Isn't she great? Well, obviously Bowen's worked with her now several times because she's gone back, but you know Wouldn't she said how what what was your answer when she asked that question? I was like, you know what I'm getting cuz I I tend to drive myself. I'm very hard on myself And I tend to drive myself. I'm very hard on myself and I tend I would leave It was my first series regular job and I wanted to do I wanted to do a good job and I think that You know again, I bet you wanted to do better than a good job

I want to be the best. Yeah, I do what of course, so basically like Jennifer Lewis there was a day when Jennifer Lewis we say Jennifer Lewis. There was a day when Jennifer Lewis. We say Jennifer Lewis. Yes, Jennifer Lewis. That's the only way we say her name. One of my biggest bummers is that the episode that she came on this podcast,

I was not there. You were out. But I want them to meet so bad because I just want to see that interaction. Jennifer Lewis. But she said to me one day, she was like, you're too hard on yourself. You're too hard on yourself.

And she just like was like, she was like, and people like, you know, just, you have to know, you have it. And so Molly asked me that question and I was like, you know what, I'm learning to drive myself less crazy about it because I find you do know it. You know what I mean? If you're the kind of person who wants to show up

and do a good job to begin with. You're gonna do a job. You do know it. And so sometimes I think it's important to preserve that freshness. A little bit of tingle. Yeah, because you have to think about the song. A little bit of like, ooh.

Like the characters doesn't. Did you say frisson? Yeah. The frisson. The frisson. Fresh from the lover, right? No, you're right. But no, but it does feel like,

the character doesn't know what they're about to say. Right, I know. So it's that fine line of being prepared and being completely. Spontaneous. Yeah, like a raw nerve. but but Molly was it was just interesting I made that connection that you guys had worked together in a show. I loved I tell The actors and this was before I'd listened to Barbra Streisand's book on tape the only book I've ever listened to not on tape

But audio version. Yeah, it's pretty great. But I think Molly's memoir is the greatest like if you can't get to an acting class and you can't get to act to an acting school that is not a possibility for you. Read her book. It is a handbook for young actors. I think it's, first of all, I mean, not surprisingly, it's brilliantly written. It's so funny and so clearly her voice, but her scrappiness and her persistence, not actually unlike Barbra Streisand,

who was like, I'm just, I'm gonna get in that class. I don't care. I will get in that class. I don't care. I will get in that class if I have to lie about my age, if I don't lie about my age, if I do this, if I babysit for the acting teacher, if I, all the ways in which she worked toward Molly had the same kind of grit and the same kind of endless. Gumsion.

Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. Anyway. Literally throwing herself into it. Literally, literally. Yeah, yeah. Okay, we're gonna throw ourselves into, I don't. Yeah, anyway literally throwing herself into it Yeah, okay, we're gonna throw ourselves into I don't think so honey This is any time I've seen this the studio seems so big And I guess the way you guys shoot it which is so funny to say for a podcast but like the separation is often

Wait, are you more separated from each other sometimes? Are you ever separate on this side? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because sometimes they're shooting I guess you're right. So Yeah, well sometimes I do like being over there I do like being over there sometimes but this feels right but this feels right. This feels like the right answer. Would you have preferred that today? No, I love this. I would change my thinking about today. You can start over again.

You want to take it from the top? All right, so what do you want me to do? We're gonna go first. We'll go first. And then, then you. Oh, you have one. Yes, we all do it. I'm so excited.

That makes me really scared because yours are no doubt, no likely going to be very funny, snarky, fast. Oh, come on. Well, now you're setting a bar we're trying to meet. Exactly. Just... Get ready for a celebration of play like no other at the all-new LEGO Summer of Play event at LEGOLAND Discovery Center Toronto, now through August 3rd.

I'm master model builder Noel inviting you to discover your play mode with awesome build activities, experiences, and even some fresh new dance moves! Enjoy the ultimate indoor LEGO playground with rides, a 4-day theatre, and millions of LEGO bricks at LEGO Land Discovery Centre. Build the best day ever with your family by getting tickets online now at legolanddiscoverycentre.com slash Toronto. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more to explore the stories that shape us, on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving book talk theories, and obsessing over book to screen casts for years. And now I get to talk to the people making the magic. So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character or cried at the last chapter or passed a book to a friend saying, you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or

wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns.

And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you. The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. -♪ For my heart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is The Turning, River Road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life

what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt.

For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to The Turning River Road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So this is our 60 second segment for those just joining us. That's JP fans that are just coming by Lost Coach because the icon herself is here. But 60 seconds to Ran and Raelle

against something in pop culture that's getting our goat. No, just do anything. It can be anything. Anything, please. You'll tell me if I've, I can't wait to hear yours. I have takes because I'm a fan. Here we go. Oh, this is Matt Rogers, I don't think so,

and his time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Carrie starts now. I don't think so, honey. Carrie Bradshaw, I think you needed to give Paris a few more weeks back in the day. I have to say, because I don't think so, honey, big. I never did. I, like Miranda, saw you from the beginning, sir, and I do have the words for it now.

It was narcissistic abuse. Rest in peace. Darn it. But still. I also don't think so, honey. Aiden, wait for me five years, sir. Carrie, SJP, I know you're not her, but you have a direct line to her.

Carrie, you are a target for narcissists. And let me tell you something about who Carrie Bradshaw is. Carrie Bradshaw is someone who is looking for love. And I don't think that it's here in this beautiful city in that townhouse infested with rats. 15 seconds. In Manhattan. I think you gotta go back to Paris and I gotta say,

now like you gonna give me some New York recommendations in my new area. Five seconds. I think I could give you some Parisian recommendations. Silencio, it says it's a gay club. It's not you're gonna do great. Lots of wonderful straight guys They're Carrie and they're not big and Aiden which is perfect for me. I don't think so, honey Bad what can't you something funny? No who cares and all it has to be a spirited artist cut it out No

Make it better. They're gonna they're gonna see the timestamps. They're gonna know that we that we fucked with it You're you're you're a left turn You go, this is yeah, this is this is gonna be a whole nothing This is going I know he's gonna do that the cutest pop socket. It's a little he was drag Socket so but this is also a grip spin. That's a fidget spinner. It's a fidget spinner on a popsicle Let's show the girls show the girls look at that y'all isn't that just pretty well. He's a Pokemon fanatic That's really really pretty fun. All right. Oh, it's pretty well. He's a Pokemon fanatic. That's really pretty funny. It's fun all right Oh, it's my bit. It's my baseball. It's my it's my

Yankees, okay down at the text and there's a lot. Oh, are you serious? Okay, I mean from the world just CNN breaking some news Topical now but just know there's more bullshit. Just see it and keep breaking snooze. Okay, this is Bo and Yang's I Don't Think So Honey. And his time starts now. I don't think so honey when someone asks if you're free on a certain night

without telling you what they are inviting you to or pressuring you to do. Narcissistic abuse. That is a form of entrapment. Legally, that is a form of entrapment. You are not allowed to do that. I need to know what you are asking me to commit to before I tell you whether or not I'm free.

Because I might need the night to myself to stay in. I mean, I think we are in the royal I sense. We need it. And we just have to moratorium on that for a little bit before we know a way forward I think there should be legislation behind this. I mean you're allowed to cancel in other free time No, you get three You get your free time back and it's like but then but then the person feels like they they're giving you your time back

It's also kind of a weird directional sort of way of framing it. And I just think we need to be more transparent about what the proposal is when we're inviting our friends out. And that's one minute. And also- That was really good, guys.

Both of those were great. Thank you. Those are great. But it can be anything. But listen, what I'm saying about this is, and when I say to you in response to what are you doing this night? And you don't qualify it with any information and my response is well, what's going on? I'm not rude

Perfectly fair question. Yes, but it's a perfectly fair response. Why hey why I'm not sure yet. Why yeah Not sure yeah The government I still think we we want we're gonna use that. Oh, yeah, do it. Why don't you sound stern like you can't really use that anymore? But I just kind of grew out of it. I was like working on some other stuff Other stuff I went to Carolyn's comedy over there No, it's just work. I try to work on some other... Sometimes I just say the government. Which is also equally as like... Disorienting. It's like what does she mean the government? For the person that asks the government, especially now. And it's like maybe it's true?

It might be. It might be? You know, we were at the Beyoncé concert in Paris and... Wow, that's why you guys... Well, we were there to do the Ken Lyon. So for our culture awards and we had a wonderful experience there It was very exhausting and a lot we had never been well He had been to Ken a couple years ago, but I had never been it was

It was wow it was intense and wow and then we had we took a little I guess a sojourn to How did you how did you know to choose a Murray? Oh, we had a one travel BC travel Travel be ECE travel and We had a one BC travel. Oh, that's right, you said BC travel. Yeah, BC travel, B-E-C, B-S-E-E, travel. And we got us in a lovely area, and we were like, well, if we're going to be there the same time as Beyoncé, we're going to go see Beyoncé. And we didn't get the Miley Cyrus night, but we did get the Jay-Z night, which was special in its own right, to be certain.

But some people were coming up, bone was trying out. Can we do it at the end? I said let's do it That's great. I've done that Or I do I say my way out of stuff I and I always do stop by and say hello, but I dissuade them that a picture has any I'm like Let me just a you of that idea. And there's no value at all. This, this is good. That's the thing, you wanna be able to say,

oh, I had this special bespoke interaction instead of I have this like picture that's kind of flopped. Yeah, it's not a very great picture either. They're never gonna be that great of pictures. I know, everyone's tense. Everyone's tense, no one's comfortable. But you know. Everyone's comfortable and not tense

for what we're about to do and witness. Which is Sarah Jessica Parker's episode. Okay, I just wanna say. You? That a couple things. The first thing I'm gonna say is that I have been preoccupied with Family stuff so I as much as I've wanted to really

think about This and have it be the sole focus Of getting this right. I have not had the kind of time. I typically devote to something. I care about that's number one number two I don't have a beef with anybody I don't have a person That is just nothing chaps my ass nothing rubs me the wrong way I'm I don't really carry around grudge so this was like to try to find something that really bothers me is so anathema

and here you are complaining and here you It's so anathema. And here you are complaining. Things don't bother me. And here you are. This is anathema to you and I think it will be an interesting exercise. Guys, I don't even know if it's even close to a minute long. And I'm going to, if it's, I'm going to have to drag it. Whatever it is is going to be perfect. It's really bad. No.

I'm actually embarrassed. By the way, you've just plussed it so much with these glasses. They're incredible. I did what? You've plussed it with the glasses. These are amazing. Oh, pay attention to the glasses and not to the words. Now I saw Tina Fey the great read. Listen, that puts so many people at ease. So do you start off with I don't think so honey?

Yes. And you bookend it with I don't think so honey. You don't have to end on it. No no no. You should should I don't think so Honey should begin the piece. Okay, and it should end the piece and if it can come check her throughout the piece I'm gonna try but I Will set you up if you ever have me back for no reason at all because I think we've basically Excuse me then I will I will Do better no I will do better. No, we haven't even heard it. This is-

And I'm afraid everyone's covered this topic, but it's the only thing in the whole world that bothers me. It doesn't matter. Nothing bothers me. Oh my god. Title of that, title of that. This is Sarah Jessica Perkins,

I don't think someone in your time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Talking everywhere too loud on your phone. We in I don't think so. Honey, your time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Talking everywhere too loud on your phone. We, in fact, don't wanna hear your very important business call regarding upcoming merger, potential buyout, the internecine workplace battles with Doug or Stacey or Kate.

I don't think so, honey. We don't actually care whether we learn the inner workings of your psyche as you scream into your air sticks Air sticks or into your speakerphone or with the phone pressed to your ears nonetheless both parties back and forth amplified for all to hear I don't think so, honey. We know you are no doubt a very important person man And though you may think your baritone dulcet tones are a gift to your fellow citizen on the train, bus or terminal D, gate 27, or your abuse of the quiet car, or even the unsuspecting pedestrian you share a corner with as we wait for the walk sign, who is on the receiving end of your

screaming instructions to a co-worker, family member, or hotel receptionist. Hotel receptionist as you bully for the room with the ocean view. No Bradley, I don't think so honey. What you might consider a gift for those whose unfortunate path you cross is more so a punishment. I don't think so. Public spaces don't qualify as working from home, Teddy. We are not inspired, motivated, impressed, or swooning. So bro, bro, with all due, nothing cooler or hotter than a guy who knows when to use his indoor voice.

That's crushing it. I don't think so, honey. Yes! One minute! And that's to all you Mr. Bigs out there. What are you talking about? That was, it felt like I was hearing. It was euphoric for us.

A euphoric voiceover. It gave us a three-story song. It was too long. I was gonna talk about how everyone has to walk from A to B with a big 12 ounce of liquid constantly, but now it's so hot, I felt like that would be a criticism of people being properly dehydrated. They're just trying to dehydrate it, but you know what?

It is grotesque, it is too big, and all these little positive affirmations on the bottle, we don't You don't need that what was the audition song by the way nothing from a chorus line Yeah I do I do think I think a chorus line ending on one is actually quite iconic. I love that number So good, but can I say- Do you have that experience where everybody,

not everybody's specific types, typically speaking, are on their phone too loud? Oh, 100%. Okay. And I would say that there is something, I just wonder what's happening in private that's so boring that they need to perform. Because that's really what it is.

They never had their little porcelain hairspray moment. They didn't ever, they just, you know what I mean, that's their stage. Have you ever seen the fellow that sits in the old days, probably before there was security issues, in the gate area and answers the person on the phone who's talking, I do that now. That's funny.

I wish I could pull up a tape. I do it now and my children are like, please, mama, don't do that, please. So if someone's on the phone saying, well, Bob, can you make it in seven days? I'm like, I'll try to make it. I answer. Oh, that's great.

And after a minute, it's so confusing to the person who is loudly having this important call at Gate D27. Anyway, watch that guy. who is loudly having this important call at Gate B27. Anyway, watch that guy. He's, I don't know, if you're a fan of, what's the show, Candid Camera? Like the rich. Okay, that's basically my, this is this. That's that.

That's that. This is that. This is that. The kids these days don't know about Candid Camera. Before Tiktok was Candid Camera. Oh, it's so good. And I will say that in Paris, there was a woman in our, my room wasn't quite ready, so I was killing about an hour.

And it really sticks out when there's a clearly American person, wasn't a man, but this American American was screaming on the phone and I was like, really? And all these French people just turning their noses. Oh, it's so awful, it's so awful. It's especially like egregious what it's in that center. It's really something when you are with someone too who's doing it.

Yeah. And you can't, I remember I was on a date one time and we were in a very crowded place going home. And he was loudly explaining to me when he learned the difference between a hard no and a soft no over email and I'm gonna I'm gonna use a rarity forgive me but the woman in front of us turned around and made eye contact with me like this and all she was saying with her eyes was, you cannot talk to her. I don't think so, honey. I don't think so. She said, I don't think so, honey. I don't think so, honey.

You understood it in your word. Don't worry. I was like, this is a one-armed tug and a sayonara at the end of this. I don't think so, honey. That's loudly going on about it. And I'm like, oh my God, where am I? Am I in the matrix right now or something?

She was helpful in that moment. She was helpful. She was huge, I'll never forget her. That's great, that's very sweet. You know, and only in New York. Only New York, and we are so lucky that you came and joined us today. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for coming on. I said so many, many, many, many, many, many, many months ago, literally, I think last, whenever we wrapped, I said, you know, I was trying to figure out, like, how do you talk about a show today? Like, what makes sense, what matters? There's just so much. But I was like, this is what I wanna do.

I wanted to do this show so much, because I really, I love what you're both doing together and separately. And it's you know there's always the thing that feels fresh and people are figuring out ways of like giving us information and stuff. But so I just I'm you know I was hoping that it would be something that you guys would be hospitable to. So thank you so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it.

It's been so much fun. It's so special to get to talk to you. Thank you. It really is. It's a boon when you embrace these things. You going on all these shows is very, very affirming for people who podcast. Yeah. Or are in the podcasting space where we're like,

oh, we get to talk to someone as compelling and wonderful as us. And we do have a lot of mutual friends. We do. Yeah, we do. So our paths have to cross. I'm sure they will. With more vigor or more intention.

Intention. Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. And they will. Yeah, and you know, next time I see Matthew at a Mets fan, I they will yeah, and you know next time I see Didn't bother him this time because he was like next to Steve and everything and I was just like there But I did just watch election It's so good

Icon in it so good Still did you have a crush on Ferris Bueller? Good, and Reese is such an icon in it. And isn't he so good? He's so good. He's so still. Did you have a crush on Ferris Bueller? I thought he was great. Very quickly, I went to see Ferris Bueller with a young Martha Plimpton. She was staying with me and we got to the theater at the Gulf and Western building, which is just, you know, Columbus Circle. You know what that building's called now.

Of course, yeah. Yeah. It was Gulf and Western building my whole Childhood and into young adulthood and there was a theater a movie theater underneath It was a Paramount movie theater and we went to see it I was with a fellow at the time and Martha was sleeping over a bunch and we got to the theater and I remember she told Me she forgot her wallet and I was like dang But so we all saw Ferris Bueller together, which was amazing. And then I was shooting Footloose when a movie, when, um, I think Project X came out and another

movie of his. And on my day off, I had rented a bike and I rode up, you know, to whatever in Provo to the movie theater and stopped. So I was seeing all his movies, but not because I was like, no, I loved his work. And I thought Ferris Bueller was like otherworldly. Like I'd never seen someone talk to the camera. Do you have a kiss for Daddy? He's so good.

Hey if you're watching, but you're probably watching The Mets. And I don't blame ya. And let's go Mets. And let's go Mets. Na na na, let's go Mets. Na na na, What is that? Wow

I'm listening. I'm the one I was humming was the one from 660. Oh Radio 66 You have all the other songs that I don't have. Wait, which one are you thinking? I don't know. It's the Metsa. I don't know. Something with the rap. You're talking about AM 660, right?

I don't know. Me, A, Navy. Yeah, 660 on your AM. We'll find it. Yeah. Well, you know, we end every episode with a song. Do we? We do.

Oh, what is it? But, Don and I shred it. We shred it. It's different every day. Oh, of course and I shred it we try it's different every day For more that you can maybe catch it at the Jimmy Awards or just you know get up to the library Three of the chorus lines. Three of the chorus lines. Three of the chorus lines. I love 2025. Bye. You guys know. Ooh.

Las Culturas is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and I Heart Radio podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bo Winyak. Executive produced by Anna Hosnier. And produced by Becca Ramos. Edited and mixed by Doug Baim and Monique Laborde. And our music is by Henry Kibursky. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant.

For My Heart Podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is The Turning, River Road. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to ten girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. But in 2014, the youngest escaped. Listen to The Turning River Road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

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