Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Control King" (w/ BD Wong)

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

He IS the blueprint. The "he" in question? BD Wong, babe. After some Grammy and Oscar nom thoughts, Las Culturistas welcome the truly hot king and *decorated* actor to the show to discuss his incredible career and more, darling. Acting in musical theater AND theme park ride waiting lines? Both covered. Jurassic Park AND Jurassic World? Obviously thoroughly discussed. Sitting across from Michelle Obama at a White House state dinner AND insight into Bryce Dallas Howard's leadership capabilities that will inspire you? Yeah, both of those, as absolute WELL! Also, BD talks about how A Chorus Line lit his fire long ago, community building amongst Asian actors, Sondheim's Pacific Overtures, and working with the all Asian cast of Nora From Queens (with...get this...Bowen Yang!). Also, BD's complicated feelings on his Law & Order role, an answer to the question, "was Li Shang attracted to Ping in Mulan?" and THOUGHTS about Donny Osmond singing his character's damn song. LET'S get down to business, indeed! BD is a fucking icon and TBH you're all welcome for this one! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This fall on Bravo. It's time to turn up. Think you've seen it all? I don't think you've been a good friend to me lately. We're friends like that, who needs enemies? You ain't seen nothing yet. Cheers to being Germanic. With the Real Housewives of Potomac.

Oh my gosh, can I take this in? It's gonna be amazing. New York City. Everyone is a gossip. No one gets a happier life. Salt Lake City. We don't wear costumes, we wear fashion. And below deck sailing out.

You broke the rules and now you're here getting upset. Watch all new seasons on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. Let's have a real good time. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all

times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're gonna find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on

Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13

to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate, delusional dreamer. Be a delusional of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.

On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Look, Matt. Oh, I see. Wow. Oh, and look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes.

Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. I was teasing you about a surprise I had for you, my sister. You said you would surprise me with something. It's now time for the surprise to be revealed.

And that's always the best part of the surprise, I feel, is the reveal. It's rule of culture. Oh, it's rule of culture number what? Six. Six. The best part of the surprise is the reveal. So I have in my hands right here, this is a result of our conversation with Rose Damu,

and this is also me revealing to Rose Damu that I own these now. A reader reached out. They somehow were able to get their hands on these Joanne Trattoria World Pride t-shirts we were given three okay so these are the the Joanne Trattoria Lady Gaga's restaurant

World Pride Parade her father's restaurant we can assume that she's in some way getting some ownership over that. What does it say on the back? I didn't read that properly. It says, okay.

There are Italians everywhere. My God. Because Lady Gaga, famously an Italian girl, first and foremost. Just an Italian girl from New York. Now, let's just describe this visually to the listeners, to the readers. We have- Because podcasts are a visual medium. The lockup is Joanne and then Trattoria under that. A rose vector art underneath makes the Joanne a little bit illegible, to be readers. We have... Because podcasts are a visual medium. The lockup is Joanne and then Trattoria under that

rose vector art underneath makes the Joanne a little bit eligible, to be honest. But then you have the strikes of... Okay, graphic design notes. I'm sorry. You know, I'm just giving them. And then it's sort of laid out

as if the Joanne Trattoria is in the top left section of the US flag. But the stripes instead of red, white, and blue are the pride colors and white. It says at the bottom, 2019 World Pride Parade. At the back, as we've said, there are Italians everywhere. In bold red letters.

I really, this is just, this is a collector's item. This is a collector's item, and there are three larges, and I'm going to bring it to you when I see you in New York, and I will see you in New York soon, And this actually is my way of getting Rose to have coffee with me. Oh my God, you guys have to meet.

This is my gun to her proverbial head. Yes. To get her out of the house to get coffee with me. Girl, the culture that has sort of befallen us in the past, we could say seven days, but really 24 hours. Wild.

We had the Oscar nominations. We had the Grammys. Now, come on now. We were recording during the Meg and Oprah interview last week. So we haven't even like assessed that.

But really quickly, I mean, an interview that we will talk about for a long time as a culture. I mean, who is having that conversation?

Who is having that conversation? I will say, both of our I Don't Think So Honeys from last week were actually, without having even watched the interviews, very prescient. Because mine was, I Don't Think So Honey people who are only just now realizing Oprah is, quote, good at interviewing, which was happening on Twitter. And yours was, I Don't Think So Honey royal family.

And I would say, decidedly, those are standing tall. Absolutely. Mine was very broad. Yours was very specific. I mean, I think we balanced both of those scopes very well. But I don't think so, honey, the royal family. They got to go, I think. They got to go. Grammys, I thought, what an interesting night. What an interesting night. That's not a glowing review. I really enjoyed that the awards were evenly distributed.

Thank you. I always love whenever they don't go all to one person. I love an even distribution. And Dua got her moment. Taylor got her moment. I'm wearing my Taylor Swift sweatshirt to sort of commemorate the third album of the year win for Folklore. Snaps to you, Taylor.

You joined the legends. Megan. Megan got awarded nicely. Also arguably got snubbed at the end but I don't think our opinion matters I think we can say was everything you want to buy Billie Eilish the record of the year to the Grammys yes to I think the rest of the world probably not but on a production level was it like an incredible like are they being are are they still like a hard for Phineas maybe incredibly hard for him Mr. Harry Styles got a nice and I was really hard for Phineas. Maybe. Incredibly hard for him. Mr. Harry Styles got a nice.

And I was really hard for him. In fact, so hard that I had to make him my phone background. He's actually my phone background on today. Let's see it. That's like, you can't really see him because they got sort of icons in the way, but he really,

he was really looking good. It's really wild that even, yeah, even, even through the screen, through the camera, he can radiate that. It's really wild.

It really works. Did you see the clip of him catching up with Taylor? I did see the clip of him catching up with Taylor. They were gesticulating in a very friendly way. Yes, they were. Their hand movements were very fun. They seem to be on good terms. They were very, we're seeing each other

and this is normal energy. Yeah, oh yeah. And I mean, that's the thing. I mean, haven't we all mastered that? There is like an extra layer of conversation now where it's like, we all have to like, in the moment adjust to like the pinching of the mask up. All that, there's just little ticks now that we've all-

Oh, I see. The sort of a state of being that is conversating with the mask with the mask with and then or and then you know like trying to like pull it down sometimes when it's like i want you to read my lips and it's like a little bit dangerous yeah or like this is the part of conversation where i'm letting you know it's actually just me and you because i'm pulling down the mask a little bit and like sort of defying what society and the quote-unquote CDC says we should be doing.

You understand? The supposed CDC. Now, just before we bring the guest in, I want to know how hard were you for the Oscars? Fully erect or sort of chub? Chub. Regina King got snubbed. One Night in Miami got snubbed.

Otherwise, really fun nominations in Miami got snubbed. Otherwise, really, really fun nominations in there. Stephen. Stephen. Young Jin Yoon. Fantastic. And Lee Isaac Chung. Really, really fun. And the Lucas Brothers are Oscar nominees for

Judas and the Black Messiah. This is really fun. The Mank Boner was throbbing, for sure. Manc Boner was throbbing, but anyway, speaking of awards, we are talking to a decorated person. Oh, Tony Award winner among other things.

And speaking of throbbing, to be honest with you, not for nothing. Oh my god, we said I said to Matt, currently throbbing? I've been throbbing all day. Never not throbbing. Never not throbbing all day. Never not throbbing. Never not throbbing. We are never not throbbing when it comes to this person.

And this is someone who has really, really takes to being objectified gracefully, I think. Well, I mean, it's been happening for decades. So I would imagine that he's adjusted. And if he hasn't adjusted, I'd tell him to get help. Get help. Because it's not going to stop anytime soon.

Certainly not going to stop in the next 80 minutes. Not at all. He, I mean, it's an exercise in futility to even try to like give you the highlights of his credits, but he's,

he's a treasure of the theater, of television, of film. Everyone, please welcome him to your ears. Wow, you're not even, you're not even going to try.

I thought you were going to say it's an exercise in futility, but I'm going to try. No, no, no. You're not even going to try. I thought you were going to say it's an exercise in futility, but I'm going to try. No, no, no. You weren't even going to try. I stand by. We're going to get into the credits as we talk to him. See, I know that we are, but I thought that was sort of so bold of you

because this is a legend. We have to say. This is an icon. But this is like, you know, Letterman or whoever being like, my next guest my next guest is no introduction okay and here he is look how much look how i don't think that's true but yes it is no i really don't but i mean go all right all right well we're about to do it anyway

we're gonna just hash this out everyone welcome bd wong welcome hi who who come on you know who Welcome. Hi. Who? Who? Come on. You know who you are. Yes, hello, gentlemen. Okay, hello, gentlemen. You want to push back against this? What are you pushing back against? You know, I'm definitely not, like, false modestying it necessarily, but I do go into a situation every once in a while where I think,

well, really, do people into a situation every once in a while where I think, well, really do people really know they do. And sometimes I'm absolutely sure they do. And then other times I'm like, yeah, okay. I think somebody needs to kind of like, maybe whisper to that person or something like that.

Yeah. No, they're going to know. They're going to know you for your people. Your peeps are people. Yeah. Yeah. We're in the know. They're in there. They're, our people. Yeah. Yeah. We're in the know.

They're in there. They're the right people. Yeah. And by our people, you mean Jurassic Park fanatics. Dinosaur enthusiasts. Matt wants, Matt wanted to ask you.

Oh, I have something. But not directly. Well, he will. He'll, I'll let him ask. Here we go.

I'm a little shy. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no let him ask here we go a little shy no no no no i really wanted to ask there's a million things to talk with you about but there's something very specific that i need to know so i am a person who and this is one of my goals one of my dreams is to book a franchise big enough that there will be a theme park ride made after it so that i can be acting on the videos that play in the line for all of time you are one of the few people who has sort of um achieved this so you are on a loop at all times 24 7 bd uh-huh 24 7 they don't turn, not 24-7. Maybe some special days of the year. But let's just say if the theme park known as Universal Studios is open, then BD is

performing in it. You are on a loop in the Jurassic World attractions. I've never seen this, by the way. What? I've never seen it. I mean, it's not that old. I haven't been to LA and then the

pandemic and all that stuff. So I have not seen it. But what was the experience of shooting the footage? Of a theme park? Very strange because it's way after the fact. It's not part of the movie. It has to be separate from the movie, but have to have all the approvals and it has to

adhere to all of the story points and blah blah and look colin travaro the director of the jurassic world two of the three direct world movies has to approve of what is being said but at the same time costume and wardrobe and like these people are just kind of hired to do put it together and they kind of watch the movie and kind of recreate it, but you don't have your real costume. It's not like, as you can imagine, you think about it from a production standpoint,

it's a whole new separate production. Yeah, okay. I didn't know that, though, because I heard the Marvel people, that it's sort of built into their, like Guardians of the Galaxy, they shot footage for the disney ride while they were shooting the new guardians like and i i didn't know if that was the case for you too it wasn't and that was and i think that was only just because this one was made after the fact you know like they by the time they figured out that they wanted to make this ride the movies were done

or the movies were coming they were coordinating it but and it wasn't bad it wasn't it was just kind of as as the performer it's odd because you think you're done with it and then you come back and it's like oh okay then you find yourself in the strange position where you're explaining to them very basic things or reading the script and saying yeah i don't know it doesn't really feel like that feels like the writing is exactly what he might say so maybe i would so then i got involved in that uh-huh uh so there was like writing involved right and um there's nothing wrong with that either but it isn't what you would assume like you'd get the script and go oh i see they're all fully aligned already and everything is together they have a learning curve too the people that are putting it together.

And there are three of them. Oh, this is what's really interesting. There's a Florida one. Yes. And I don't know if it's open yet or not. But you did shoot new footage for that Velocicoaster. I did. Okay, this is really what I wanted to ask about because this rollercoaster looks intense, BD.

You're going to have to get down there. Super intense. You're going to have to get down there to watch yourself work. And also a different ride. Yeah. Completely different audience experience prior to the ride. I forget what that's called. It's got an acronym. And, and then, so then each, each team is completely different.

The director and everybody, everything's just completely different. It's amazing. The first one, the one that we did had a lot at first had a lot of like improv. And there was a little bit of a wink to it and then i then i started as the shoot went on i got the impression they were oh they don't like this they're going to like use all the very serious stuff so i don't even know what it's like what is it like yeah well the thing is it's sort of like it's sort of like this it's like we're walking through the queue and i go i look up to the screens and i see that it's you, BD.

And there's like a lot of children screaming around me. You know what I mean? So you can't really hear it. So while I think that they did appreciate all the improv, I think that they thought to themselves, well, you know, kids are going to be screaming. Well, maybe it's still in there. And, you know, you know what I hope it's you improvising about whatever the fuck. And the kids are screaming over it so that they can't even hear it. And they don't even know you're not talking about raptors or nothing you're talking about some crazy exactly i'm talking about you guys exactly i hope so but are the stakes lower

to you and maybe this is an unfair question but are the stakes lower to you because it's not canonical and because uh to the children who are like populating these parks they can't track what's going on in the queue like no well yes and no i mean let's one has to be kind of like not if i put everything into everything all the time i would never make it because there's just so much you know like like i like i i wanted i want to do a really good job and i want it to be as good as possible and i overthink and i over commit and like stay up too late whatever i do to prepare but at the same time it is what it is after a certain point and the best example and bowen you probably appreciate this it's third one. You know what the third one is?

Dominion. Dominion. No, the third park. Oh, what is it? Oh, it's the one, it's the one, yeah, the new one that they're opening. Where is it? Hong Kong or Japan? What are you talking about? Beijing. Beijing. Yes. And so I had to do it in Chinese.

Oh my god. And I don't speak Chinese. So I had to do it in Chinese and I don't speak Chinese and I don't speak Chinese so I had to cram Chinese and then of course they dubbed me and the onset I will say the onset experience for that was very upsetting because I wanted to do a good job

and I was all of my Asian American kind of shame about speaking the language and all that started like coming up and I wanted to do as good a job as possible but they weren't giving me the tools that I needed they wanted to go really fast and I had explained to them months ago this is what I need but I couldn't I didn't have it so so it that was disappointing to me but and that was a perfect example of me saying, okay,

you gotta let it go because what it is, they don't care about what you care about. They don't care about any of that stuff. So just let it go. But, but that was, and then by, so by the time I got to the third one,

I thought, oh wow, I really, but again, another completely different ride with a completely different script and a completely different shooting thing. It's all, all independent. Yeah. completely different ride with a completely different script and a completely different shooting thing. It's all,

all independent. Yeah. But this is a character, Henry Wu, who has, is, has lived on for 20 plus years. Yeah.

Wear a black turtleneck. Like no, no other man in the world. Thank you. Thanks. That's Sean Connery. No, no, no. Maybe rest in peace. That world. Well, thank you. Thanks. I don't know. You know, Sean Connery. No, no. May he rest in peace, but no. That potato?

No. No. I think you've remarked on this. That character is done a little dirty at first, and maybe there is a chance for him to occupy this very impactful and i but i think by the time you get to fallen kingdom he whatever he's he's basically i mean doesn't he get like whatever he gets like sterilized and shit he gets castrated professionally yes you know he's like taken his lost his license and and so he's been humbled because he's really

arrogant in the first of the three of the Jurassic World movies. That's the black turtleneck thing. He was really the cock of the walk. He knew he was the hottest man in the world. Yeah. Yes. He was

basically Steve Jobs. When you guys were just saying he was sterilized, I was like, okay, how high was I when I watched that movie? Because I don't remember him being sterilized, but I remember a lot of crazy shit happened. Like the little girl let the dinosaurs free at the end because she was like them too. I was like, this movie is camp.

I love it. In the original novel, in the book, the Michael Crichton, like like henry woo is like like there's a shit happens to him a huge part of it yeah they need to beef up the role how's the how is the how is it in dominion what can you say he can't say anything i won't say a lot but i can say fun things well first of all just to track the whole thing i think this is one of the more interesting things that's ever happened to me, actually. Because when I was asked to come and audition for the part, I read the book.

And I got really excited. And then they had you read scenes from the book to audition. I forgot how it was very strange. It was not a real script. And then I got the part part and i was really excited and then i got booked for one day and i thought oh no come on now what is that about what could could they do all that in one day i thought no and so then of course i hadn't read the script and then i find i but yeah it was one of those things where you had to go to somebody's steve spiel's office, sit in the lobby, in the waiting room, read it and give it back.

And I read it and discovered it was a one day part. It became that part that's in the movie. That's it. Without even an ending. Like everyone's fleeing the island and all that stuff. That person made no impact. There was no consequence to them. And I was very disappointed personally and

i also had enough of a spine at that time to think is this an asian american thing is this because there's no asian american movie stars and i'm not one of them and and i i really believed that they had to make just cuts and changes and you know the people are all still alive you can still ask them but but um i think they didn't care about this character because he didn't appeal to the audience at that time in our cultural history and and so uh that was great and then it was over and and then years later it came back around in this very weird way because they re in whatever you call it re rebooted the whole thing and i had a close friend nathan who told me this would happen because he's a big fan of the fan of the franchise and he says it's got to come back to you it has

to come back to you i said i don't see why it would or how it would but okay and then it did and he was right and um the first one happened and the first one was a complete 180 from the character that was in the original movie and then the second uh movie he's you know kind of brought been brought down from that it's like a little bit of a roller coaster the third all i can say is that i'm okay now let me just give you the landscape of why i i mean what i might have thought. I thought one of the great things about the original book was that he had this incredibly operatic death is kind of like Wally.

Wonderful kind of coming around, you know, it was like a really three-dimensional part. Cathartic even. Yeah. Like, yes. And I thought,

wow, that would be great. And then of course that never happened and I thought well what happened in will it happen in the first one will it happen in the second one and and so I'm not saying that does or doesn't happen I'm just saying I thought that would be really one of the great things

but there are other great things too that could happen you can imagine what they are like Bryce Dallas running in a heel again we want to see Bryce Dallas running in the heels again. That's our big thing for the third movie. I can't tell you. I'm not going to comment about that, but yes.

I totally understand that. Is Laura Dern in a ponytail? Salmon button down, maybe? Is Salmon a hat? No. Well, okay. They're fucking up. I can't even

hardly remember this is what the gays want raptors are chasing you Laura and Bryce Dallas and we're all in heels and everyone's in heels

and everyone's wearing all salmon like salmon button down but also salmon like sort of salmon culottes really

because culottes are not the big thing like salmon poplin like salmon poplin? Like salmon poplin? Yes, poplin. Poplin. Crispy and maybe lures is tied at the crop midriff.

Yes. Exactly, exactly. And we go back to Bryce Dallas's original Jurassic World hair, which is what we call the chop. The chop, yeah. So we need to go back to the chop and you all need to be in heels. You get absolutely, I'm not sure what the death is in the book but you get

ripped apart and it's iconography it's iconography the way that you die yeah well because the interior salmon matches the exterior salmon as it's being ripped and it's gorgeous it's art it transcends

and then at the end Bryce Dallas and Laura Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's gorgeous. It's art. It transcends. Yes. And then at the end, Bryce Dallas and Laura have to fight the Raptors. That's what I think I want to happen with fists, with fists. Yeah. They, cause they look at each other and they say, they look at each other and this is what the script writers wrote.

Bryce Dallas looks at Laura and she says, girl power. And then they, they fight the, the face off with it. And they went exactly. And then they fight the rest. They face off and they win. Exactly. And they win. Of course they win. They knock them out. 100%.

And the T-Rex comes in and then looks at them and he turns the other way and runs the other way. He says, I'm not messing with that. I'm not messing with those ladies. And for Henry to die after six movies. Six? Am I miscounting no he is four right technically four but i i think no it's technically six but actually i will i don't count those other

two the ones that i'm not in lost world no that is that is like that is a big deal for this man to survive the course of this story and to be ripped apart in salmon at the end, acting as the bridge between the generations of, you have Bryce who's new, you have Laura who's from the old school, and then you have BD

who is the connective tissue. And remember the dinosaurs wouldn't even be there without him. They would not be there without him. Yes. And remember, the dinosaurs wouldn't even be there without him. That's right. They would not be there without him. Yes. And, well, the thing is, my response to that is, if you can imagine the roller coaster of it, I mean, he's headed towards something.

And this arrogance in the first, this kind of like creator energy, and then this whole kind of being brought down a little something needs to happen in the third thing I'm not going to tell you what it is but it could be related to the connection back

to the original material which is oh my goodness the ember yeah I mean you know his attitude about you guys are so funny his attitude we are getting it out where he's coming from yeah this as this person but i'm not going to say anything because i don't want to mislead or or leave no you know they say is goldblum in this last one yes they're all in all in it. He is, they're all in it.

We're all in it. Oh my God. The three of them are hilarious. They're great together. Who are you talking about? Laura, Sam, and Jeff? And Jeff. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City are back.

I love that. I love that. Oh my gosh. Welcome. And last season's drama was just the tip of the iceberg. You're recording us? I am disgusted. Never in a million years after everything we've been through did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy.

We were friends. How could you do this to me? I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Wednesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all

know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the s**t we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty,

founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image,

and huge life transformations. I was a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me.

It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother

trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom.

At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One of the icons of Lost Culture is Bryce Dallas. What is Bryce Dallas like? Incredible. We love Bryce Dallas. Yes. He has an Dallas? Like incredible. Like we love Bryce Dallas. Yes. She has an incredible sense of humor. She's,

she's totally, um, nothing but, you know, like that kind of real, there's no pretense or anything. She's extremely smart. She was the spearhead and the,

um, took a huge leadership role in the, um, what's the word, going into production in this movie. It's the early part of the pandemic. Really? She's the one that got us all together and said, okay,

this is what I've found out so far about what's possible. And this is what I'm saying to production about what we want, because we can't do this without absolute absolute precautions and um protocols that have to be in place and so that you know because they wanted they were proposing that we would go into production back into production because the movie was shooting in january and february and then shut down like everything else. And then they came to us like in May or something and wanted us to shoot in June. And she said, I said, I can't picture that at all.

I mean, I wasn't even getting out of bed. And so she was the one that got, we eventually went back in the end of July, I think it was, which seemed really fast. But it was because all of this stuff had been put into place. They really bent over backwards to get this movie finished.

They wanted it done by a certain date. That was their first motivation. But then what quickly overtook that was this desire for it to be done properly because it was the first movie to go back into production. Yeah, y'all were back really early. I remember seeing like Laura Dern's Instagram because it was like a huge deal when she posted that she was on set.

Of course, her being Laura Dern and it being Jurassic Park. I remember it felt early. I was like, wow, it feels like in America, this could not happen. That's right. That's right. But that's on topic. That is the answer to the question about what's Bryce like. I mean, she has this real energy and super intelligence when it comes to laying out all the facts and compiling it. And then she has people skills

to bring people together and get them to want to do it. Yeah. To do it and to be, you know, she was a really great team leader. That's skill. That's, that's wonderful. That's wonderful to hear. We love hearing it. I,

oh, and that was, it was this, this was of course the third, really the fourth time that I worked with her because I did three of these movies with her. But then when in 19 and 20 and 2003, I did our town with her at the Bay Street Theater in Sag Harbor. And I played her father.

You were Bryce's dad. Yes, I was Bryce's dad in that production of Our Town. So that was when I first kind of really fell for her because she was so good. She was also just like out of school. You know, she was really young and fresh. She went to NYU. Yeah. Yeah, she was in ETW.

There's photos of her in the hallway. Not playing the family card at all. Well, she never does that. But, you know, then when you think some kids might she she certainly didn't do that i love to hear it i have a question i mean we're on the topic of theater i have a specific question to ask about pacific overtures okay i because i think it's really fascinating that it is this, it's a Sondheim show that is like, probably, is this fair to say, BD, like the least produced Sondheim show? Very possibly. And in terms of the casting, it demands a big full cast of Asian dancers, singers,

actors, what have you, and to recreate some like Kabuki presentation. Yeah. And it's just, it's just a very, it's just a very layered show. And so I,

I feel like it both like is inspiring and it's a little bit sad that it is a show that like no one really that no one really gets even the most like even the biggest on time freak yes yeah yeah it's like the one that people don't really like they don't really engage with and it's got some of the most beautiful music in it and some of the most intelligent material and some of the most spectacular everything. It's a great, it's a really interesting, and it's certainly interesting to study. But it is so, this is such a rich conversation to have.

Like it's got so many layers to it. I mean, it is, let's call it what it is, a show written by two brilliant white guys about this very Japanese, you know, it was a bit of a folly for them or kind of an experience. The way I look at it now, looking back, I used to be absolutely just in love with it from top to bottom, you know, like it could do no wrong. But as I've gotten older and kind of evaluated, well, what is appropriation? And what does it mean to me? And when is it really, you know, if I'm applying all my rules of appropriation, Pacific Overture

is in many ways like the Rodgers and Haberstein shows of the 50s and 60s appropriation and and it it just so happens that all of these shows i'd say i'd say the king and i and and and flower drum song and and and and this show pacific overtures have an integrity to them that allows their appropriation to be acceptable to us for the most part. And, and, and so this was that and Pacific Overtures is a show which has such kind of ambitious, intelligent aspirations that the idea of it being appropriation is really never discussed because it's such an interesting and wonderful and beautiful show. And because it gave us a lot of jobs. And because it put us, you know, we did the show.

But this is what I want to ask is that, like, what was it like working on that show and to be... Because I am, like, naively have... Until literally, we did this thing over the summer. Matt and I were both involved in, in BD's project songs from an unmade bed song cycle that he put out in these videos. That was really fun.

Thank you for having me on it. So fun. Um, but we were on a zoom call BD with like all these, all these other actors and I, and I had the terrible, terrible thought. Wow.

It's so incredible that there are so many asian like broadway performance i i i was definitely like i had i had no business being there but i was like there's so many fantastic asian in this case and they happen to be gay yeah men gay men who were who were just these huge talents and and when i when I think about Pacific Overtures, I go, man, like, it must have been a trip to like, be a part of that or just to have any awareness of it

and think, wow, like, you're led to believe that there's a dearth of this kind of performer, of these kinds of people who are capable of putting on this kind of show, a show that demands so much from its performers. And I'm'm like it really fucking i don't know it bums me out when i think i mean now it's like we we know this to be true

but like i i mean i really and this i think this is like this this moves beyond like any like cursory discussion about representation i'm just thinking like even even like even now i go wow i didn't realize we're all out here. Do you know what I'm saying? Well, yeah. And you were, you yourself had that experience. Being an Asian American person was separate from, I mean, you actually had that aha moment, which surprised you and disappointed you at the same time. For Nora?

No, no. Just while you were sitting in the Zoom. Yes, yes, yes. You were having an aha moment that was kind of great, but also kind of sad at the same time. And it hadn't occurred to you in the same way. Yes, yes, yes. representation and appropriation and all that. And one of them is the observance of history as it's playing out or, or, or the situation in the world as it's playing out. And then another thing, which can be very different is how you feel about it or what your

involvement or what you're overlapping with it is. Pacific Overtures was 2004. Four. Oh yeah. I guess it was 2004. It was after I met Bryce. And it was... Those are your markers of time, by the way.

Well, for me, too. For me, there's before Bryce and after Bryce as well. Yes, exactly. When I first saw The Help. But it was 2004. And the original production was in 1975, 1976. And then between that in 1992 or so was Miss Saigon. And Miss Saigon plays this huge role in our timeline for going on,

kind of creating a conversation about the casting of Asian people in general. And after that, say what you will about that conversation, there was a change in the way that we were taken seriously as musical theater performers, Broadway performers, and a lot of jobs came from the many years that Miss Saigon ran and allowed us in many ways, not the only reason, but allowed us to establish a community of actors in New York who are musical theater performers that continues to grow and be nurtured and to strengthen itself. the experience of doing what you're doing has to do with the building of that community. You yourself are, you know, in a situation where people say, well, how come this has taken so long? How come this has taken so long that there isn't another, there hasn't been an Asian person on

SNL for ever, ever. There never has been. And the default was always, well well there just aren't any I mean we just don't do that we're not funny and and the actual the actual real answer is because we don't have a building block process or developmental process or an educational process or an experiential process that leads us there and and safely gets delivers us there so that the ultimate inevitability of it happens naturally. And that's a lot of things that need to be fixed in order for the world to be a better place. It's like a lot of stuff that happens and creates a situation that is easily written off as a talent issue or a or whatever i mean there's also just a scarcity issue yes there's an issue of our relationship to our parents and what what happens to our relationships with them when we either come out or decide that we're going to

tell them that we're going to be actors oh yeah and then and then you and i have done both yeah and it's it's there's. And there's similar reactions. There's similar reactions and there's similar fears and all of that. And there is, not to be super general, but there's a cultural aspect to why certain generation of Asian American parents are a little more controlling with their kids about what their future is sure um and so that's all part of swirling around in this whole thing and then you have a show like pacific overtures which creates opportunities uh miss saigon also creates opportunities and there's a gratefulness to them that you sometimes have to kind of remind yourself is, is not the only,

you know, that that's not the only answer. It's not the answer to everything is, is someone else creating an opportunity. The indebtedness. Yes. The indebtedness is not something that, um,

is, it should be a fixture in, in, in our, in the way that we think about things. Like I, this is a whole chapter in Kathy Park. It's the last chapter in a essay in Kathy Park Hong's book, which is like this feeling of indebtedness that it's like things. Like I, this is a whole chapter in Kathy Park. It's the last chapter and essay in Kathy Park Hong's book,

which is like this feeling of indebtedness that it's like, well, I'm, I should be grateful to be here is kind of a, it's a weird mental trap, but I, I love what you're saying about this community building because I feel like I'm,

I'm about to like make a statement about you, about, about, about your beginnings, which I know, which, which, which is, I'm, I'm about to like make a statement about you, about, about, about your beginnings, which I know, which, which, what,

which is, I mean, you, you have built this, you've built community your entire career, but also I feel like that has been informed by the fact that you started, I mean, you started out doing M butterfly,

which was written by an Asian person. Like this, this is, I don't know. Like that is the perfect example of it being a self contained thing. That's right. That's the, that's one of the more graceful ways to achieve what we are,

what we, what one can achieve. A hundred percent. Is through self generation. You know, this is why songs from an unpaid bed, that thing that you guys did with me last summer, was important to me because it was self-generated and because it allowed me to express my point of view from my, without any filter of anyone else's input. And that is important for us to have a kind of purity to the journey of getting where we are trying to get.

And yes, I don't know. I didn't mean to interrupt, but that is what it was. It was an experience with an Asian American writer. I had never had such an experience before. It was a very rare thing. It also was a, it was a play that went to Broadway written by an Asian person. I don't think there are very many other examples of such a thing,

which is amazing when you think about how well Broadway is doing now. Oh, I guess what's her name? She wrote, um, straight white men. Yeah. Um,

young Jean Lee, young Jean Lee. And there are, um, surely others, but the fact that it, it's not that easy to kind of list them. And they're an example of what we're talking about.

And my question is like, were you out your entire career or did that was that something that was later and i also wanted to know if you being gay influenced your character on law and order also being gay or was that just like happenstance it was kind of it was you know i still don't know i think it for me, to be quite honest, I felt that was really convenient and kind of like, almost like, not like, I wouldn't call it jumping the shark, but I would say I had been on the show for 11 years and it goes to show you how thin the writing was

for the character that I was playing. This was never discussed until this moment and that they felt comfortable just lobbing it out there to serve a plot point or a an argument that was happening in that situation yeah and it was your character being offended at the insinuate like it was like a thing of like there were there was like some sort of insinuation that like the pet there was like a pedophile on the show they were dealing with and the person was gay. I don't even remember what it was. It was really, it was weird. It was, it felt a little jammed in there.

Jammed in. But I remember it being an example of representation. Yes, that's right. I remember at that time, everyone was talking about like, what, like when it was, it was like, I guess, what'd you call it? Turn of the century, like around 2000-ish, where we started to see, well, I'm just saying in general, we started to see more gay characters yes that's right and so i remember watching something on tv that was about representation and they were flashing through like the i don't know seven or eight gay characters on

tv and yours was one of them yeah and i was like oh that's so funny that they include that because that's a that's like a very very tertiary character on that show and yet they're ticking it off as a way to pat themselves on the back in terms of representation. I just thought that was so thin. That is how I felt about it. And I also, I did feel that that was, it was fine for me. I just didn't think it was something to brag about.

I absolutely did not think it was something to brag about. I didn't think it was unhealthy, but I did not think it was the cure to anything or, you know, like any great example be super honest, why I left the show to begin with, because the part just didn't ever sing to me at all. It was just always kind of something that the people really liked about the character was that he never changed and he always gave you exactly what you wanted. But for me, it was not particularly interesting. And so for them to have thrown that in right at the end

and kind of go, yeah, that's great, right? Yeah, right? You like that, don't you? It was kind of like, oh, yeah, no, that's not what I meant, really. Yeah, that's not acting. That's me saying a line you wrote for you and your show. That's not a way to explore the character. Serving some ulterior

some ulterior purpose i think yeah yeah but again i i was thinking like not only you on are you on a loop on like in universal studios hollywood but like probably somewhere at all times there is a lauren order svu playing so i'm sure the checks don't hurt yeah they don't they and i was i was lucky that i got on the residual um yeah cart before it changed it changed drastically in the beginning of early 2000s and um uh so that has been good i mean it does it doesn't get bigger it gets smaller as it goes along but it has been really helpful to me. I think it's time to ask the question. Yes, it's been sustaining.

It's time to ask the question. And that question is sort of the central question, BD, of Lost Culture Is This, which is, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? This is defining pop culture that you feel in looking back on your life made you the person that you are in some way. And when you say the culture, you mean the object of culture or the event of culture or just? It can be as broad or as specific as you want. It can be like the town you lived. It can be like growing up in San Francisco or it can be like, you know,

this, this thing that I experienced once. This is what part, this is what makes the question beautiful. It's the amorphous nature of whatever you're going to say. I'm just, I think, you know,

as if this was therapy, which it is not unlike, um, I, I, I, I want to go with the first thing that pops into my mind and just follow it where it should go, right? That's the actor's impulse. Yes.

The first thing that comes to mind is that time period when Pacific Overtures came out. It was also the same year that A Chorus Line came out. A Chorus Line came out when I was 15 or 16 years old. I had been in one or two musicals, and I was hooked on the experience of being in the musical theater and began this weird, long process of thinking about doing it. Or, you know, it was a long process because I didn't dream of it for quite a long time. I just liked doing it.

But at some point, I think, and I think to this day even, there are not a lot of rent, a chorus line, a very few national, Hamilton certainly, national news Broadway musicals. Right. Broadway musicals that became national news or that became things that people knew. There was a lot more touring then. Chorus Line certainly toured for

many, many decades after that. So there was an understanding of it. But the one thing that was a real moment was the star of or arguably the star of Chorus Line, Donna McKinney, was on the star of um or the arguably the star of of of course line donna mckechnie was on the cover of newsweek magazine and i remember seeing that woman on the cover of newsweek

magazine and thinking wow this is this isn't just like some play off way far. I grew up in San Francisco and I had an awareness of the impact of the particular show to be dramatic the world and that there was

a shifting in the medium that I was not sophisticated enough to yet to understand or appreciate or grasp, which is that Michael Bennett, the kind of legendary director of that production was changing the form and kind of turning it in and it, and it reached people in a different way.

And there was, there were contemporary issues in the play. Of course, now they seem very quaint, but at the time, there were people coming out on stage, and people touching their tits and stuff, and you went, oh, wow, this is like real life kind of theater that's also a musical that um uh is also still kind of oddly family entertainment and that um i wanted to be in that business i mean i just i i knew somehow at a very early age that i wanted to create theater or that I wanted to be a theater actor. And I wasn't sure how or what manifestation and where it would take me.

I was lucky enough when I was in high school to have a really great relationship with a high school drama teacher who really just opened the doors for me and in my own mind, you know, and kind of showed me that there were these tremendous possibilities. So at that time, and I, and then subsequently, Chorus Line played a huge role in my, in recurring theme in my life. I certainly saw it every time it came to town and it came to town many times. And then I got a job after high school as a, an usher at the theater where it also came and I saw it maybe a hundred times.

I watched it every night. Yeah. I memorized it. I mean, it was, it plays, it's a show that play. And now I look back on it and I think,

well, geez, it's not as good as I remember it to be. You know, I've actually have a kind of a come to, you know, moment where I, I think, well, let me evaluate it now as a grownup and a, and a writer and a whatever. And it's not as good as I remember it to be. You know, I've actually have a kind of a come to, you know, moment where I, I think,

well, let me evaluate it now as a grownup and a, and a writer and a whatever. And it's still wonderful. And I still have these wonderful fond memories of it, but I have a different critical eye towards it. And, and I,

were you ever in it? Were you, did you ever do it? I was in it. Yes. Do you know about this? No, no,

no, no, this is all new to me. I was in it, but I was in it in a really powerful way i was in the only production of it at east west players in la the it was an all asian cast of chorus live and it's all people that are many people that i still know now and and and and and it was that same kind of experience later,

many years later that I had with the cast of Pacific Overtures, which is, and Gwendolyn, you might not ever have, we may not yet have had this experience, which is, well, the Zoom was the experience of being in a show with a bunch of other Asian people and without even effortlessly, there's this kind of shorthand and this sense of closeness to one another because we all have a very similar kind of pain, really. And that is just a layer of the working experience

that's really, really, I wish this on anybody, just between the breaking of bread and the rehearsal process and the kind of looking out for each other and everything, there's a real sense of understanding each other. That was the first time I had it when I was in Chorus Line at East West. And then I had it again in Pacific Overtures in 2004 like you said and that's a really memorable color of experience I want to put a pin in Chorus Line but

just to the only facsimile of that that I have ever had was I've told you this right BD like that shooting that scene i was in one scene of the pilot for nora but shooting that scene i remember leaving that leaving that day and being like wow we talked about wood ears in between takes yeah we talked about we talked about

like i was like wood ear mushrooms yes right what are your mushrooms i was like that's never happened to me before you mentioned that when you came from shooting it, that it was, that it had an impact on you. I remember that day. And I was like, and I said, and I was like, said out loud. And this, this sounds, this sounds weird, but I was like, this is what white people must feel all the time. I'm like, this is, I was like, I've never, and then I looked at the call sheet. I was like, oh, look. And like the top four people on the call sheet, I was like, I've never played someone's family member. Yes. The lead person, the lead's family member.

I'm like, this is all wild. Granted, I had only been like a day player in the stuff that I had done in the past or prior to that. And even now it's something that is incredibly rare. Yes. I mean, even now for me, there's, it's, there's still, I mean, I've never had a relationship with anyone in a show.

You said this. Wow. Nor was your first time dating someone and then you're dating Jennifer Esposito. Yes. I love Jennifer Esposito. And so then I went from, you know, zero loser to like the, you know,

the luckiest person in the whole world. Yeah. You two hotties getting together on screen not for nothing. Jesus. Yeah. Wait till you see the craziness that ensues in season two. It's really fun.

Can we say that I'm having a lot of fun already this season. Me too. Can we say that? Okay. The vibe is so good. It is. People say this all the time and it gets boring. It is a really very good crew. Their energy is very good and it's very. There is a really very good crew. It is.

Yes. Their energy is very good and it's very conducive to comedy because you know how comedy can be just like a wet, you know, you can get like hosed down by some moment that happens off, you know, between takes and then you're dry or you can't, can't do what you're supposed to do.

But this is very upbeat. It's very, very professional. And it just works for me. I really like these people. Yeah. Nora was making me laugh. If there's a gag reel,

it's going to be a good one. Yeah. Just because of me and Nora. No, I'm just kidding. There's always got to be a gag reel. It's a little culture. It's real culture number 91. There's always got to be a gag reel. It's a real culture. It's real culture number 91. There's always got to be a gag reel.

People want to see the gags. People want to see Bowen Yang laughing. They want to see him laugh. I feel that the people want to see Bowen laugh. Can I ask you, do you like working with Bowen? Because he can become challenging. You're putting me on the spot. We haven't really done it that much.

No, we haven't. We had that one scene, the wood ear scene. The wood ear mushroom scene. That was really our one, like, moment where we had went back and forth a few times, really. You know, we haven't had that much. We sat at the table for that other scene. Which, that other scene, I was

so out of it that day. And I remember not, I remember going home that day, shooting that kitchen scene and being like i really fucked up i fucked up in front of laurie i was i was like they were he's always like that about himself no no no but like it was a mood you were in though it was a mood i was in and i and i really felt because at that point at that point we were just beginning to like get to know each other yeah and i was and i still had I, this is still probably a little present,

but I'm like, man, there's something about, there's something about me like acting opposite BD that like is really tripping me up just because it's him, you know, just because this is someone who means all of these things. Wow.

But anyway. Yes. No need for that. I mean, look, it's really, and it was early. I mean,

we're still getting to know each other and all of that stuff. So need for that. I mean, look, it's really... And it was early. I mean, we're still starting to get to know each other and all of that stuff. So I understand that. It's nerve-wracking whenever you start any project, let alone something where, like... And I mean, it is true. Bowen is expressing, like, you are BD1.

I mean, like... And also, like, you know, Awkwafina is, like... She is such a huge deal. So I get, like, feeling like, oh, God. is like she was such a she is such a huge deal like so i get like feeling like oh god like i just just shot about and i left a couple days like being like well i hope that was good because especially we come from we come from live comedy and we come and as you know coming from theater you're used to a reaction yes and that reaction sustaining you

going forward and so when you act for the camera, it's obviously different because you have to move on. And I did a little tiny guest thing on the first season of Nora. And that was something I remembered about. It was like, it felt like it was professional and moving, but also that it was loose enough where the comedy could happen. And it felt like you were given a take for you.

You know what I mean? You know what I mean? And that's important. Like what you're saying with comedy, it's rare to get that on the first take because often the people that are performing the comedy on camera are people that, you know, maybe they do come from live performance. Maybe they're cast because they are a big old fucking ham.

And it's going to take a take or two to get it. Yeah. Matt improvised a line in Nora. The most famous person in my phone is a tie between Hillary Clinton and Billie Eilish. Stupid. Did they keep that in? They kept it. Oh, it's so funny.

They did keep that in. And they kept another one of my ad libs, too. That's Matt Rodder's ad lib. Wait, well, before we... Because we felt like we were talking about Nora. I just wanted to say, you're directing an episode? He's directing an episode this season. I'm directing an episode, which is mind-blowing to me

and also like a dream come true for me. And it's everything that I ever wanted. And it's really great. And it just started today is all the kind of pre-production and stuff. And, you know, it's a little crazy because I'm in this episode that's being shot while I'm doing the pre-production. And then when we get into actually shooting the episode I'm directing, I'm also in that.

So I'm having that, that what I would call the John Cameron Mitchell experience. Yeah. Who is he's, you know, well, that might be something really different. The John Cameron Mitchell experience.

Depending on which film you're talking about. But yeah, so I'm really into it and I'm great. You know, really, really just so happy that I was asked and, and I was, it's a lot of fun and it's,

and these episodes, I think all of them, but this particular one, I really, really like it. So it's, it's going to be easy to direct it. So that will be nice.

Except that Bowen's not in it which is not good for me can I tell you my I think I explicitly said yes to the to the EPs they're like what do you want Edmund to do season two I was like I just want Edmund and Wally interaction I was like I want scenes with Bradley Daryl Wong and that shows how much they listen to you, I guess. Bowen's a nobody. He's a nobody on set. Whatever. I want the same thing. I think that would be fun, but let's just hope that it's not over yet.

I think the good things are in store. Yes. Little teases. Should we close the loop on this chorus line yeah I want to hear your question sorry I just had to bring up the directing thing because I was so excited to hear that

oh my gosh of course favorite song is it like what I did for a while I feel like I gotta admit I don't know the show I know mine mine is music in the mirror in the chair I mean have you ever seen Jane Krakowski's version of that

on ally mcbeal no so a lot of gays out there don't know that jane krakowski sang music in the mirror on ally mcbeal i don't think she did and you can youtube it and she's stunning in it and she gives you the whole dance number and she fucking belts the end and it's great but i think that's my favorite number what i did for love us a close second yeah she does the whole dance number and she fucking belts the end. And it's great. But I think that's my favorite number. What I did for love us. Us close second. Yeah. She does the whole number. Wow.

No, I don't, I mean, I'm not really, I don't know if there are many, is there any particular song that really is, you know, exemplifies my affection for the show.

It was a whole kind of experience. I just, I mean, I mean, I remember being just kind of like, I don't know what, how do you call it? Like impressed or, or my breath was slightly taken away by the fact that there was no set. experience i just i mean i remember being just kind of like i don't know what how to call it like

impressed or or my breath was slightly taken away by the fact that there was no set and there was just this black stage with numbers on it and it just was like so bold at that time to just not have a set and and and and all that stuff and it also had what appeared to be at the time a really great um quick change at the very end of the show where everybody goes from dance clothes to these like fancy costumes and there you know little things like that and then there was a there is a song about teenage angst and growing puberty which is a really great song which is a huge number and I liked that but and also was really into the lighting the lighting was very geometric.

If you sat on the balcony, you could see all of the shapes and hard angles and colors that the Theron Mustard, the lighting designer used, which was very not like a regular musical. It was very angular. It was suited the choreography. It created shapes and spaces and different times

and all kinds of different kinds of, there was a kind of lots of different usages for it. That was really great because there was no set. And so that the lighting became a huge part of the transformative quality of, of the, the,

um, that element. Wow. You got to, you also, Bowen, you also have to listen to on Barbara Streisand. She did like a,

a recent album, which was like, um, she got like movie stars to come Barbara Streisand. She did like a recent album, which was like, she got like movie stars to come in and sing with her. And her, Anne Hathaway and Daisy Ridley did At the Ballet. No, At the Ballet. It was really good. It was really good.

And the featurette, which is Barbara Streisand talking about it is also really good because Barbara Streisand talking about anything is an event. About anything. Have you ever met Barbara? I don't think I've ever met Barbara

I've met a lot of people in passing or whatever but she's not one of them I felt like I could ask you that and maybe I'd get a yes and out of anyone who's ever been on this show you are the person that's most likely to have met Barbara although Will Ferrell might have met Barbara

I was at I know this is going to. No, you know, I was at, I know this is going to sound so pretentious, but I was at the same White House state dinner that Barbara was at. Wow. Whose state dinner was that?

Obama's. Hu Jintao. Yeah, it was Hu Jintao at Obama's dinner for Hu Jintao. And I sat at Obama's table. Wow. Did he have anything good to say?

No. No, I'm joking. I was completely tongue tied. I mean, I never have that experience where I don't know, you know, where I usually sit down next to a stranger or whatever. This was the strangest experience.

I brought my mother. She was my plus one date. And I said to my mom, we're going to the white house and then we we got there and we were given our little fancy engraved thing with the table number 23 and we were like great we're walking that's a good number and and the people there he was like you know like um um who was there uh michelle just please michelle yeah michelle and and and I'm one of who I met was Michelle Kwan and oh that's fancy the architect Maya Lin and um just people like that you know and and and so we're walking looking for

the room and we're going with 23 I guess that's the room on the end and we're going in there in room 23 I think it's that long table underneath the painting of Lincoln. And then we get there and I'm like, and we're looking at the names and the people at our table. It was my mother, me, Michelle, Barack,

Bill, the Clintons, the Carters, John Kerry. It was mayor daily from Chicago. and it was um it was it was the strangest thing ever i mean i think i think when they were like putting it all together they were trying to figure out who could kind of like bridge the gap or something and my mother who you know might have been a part of it too it just just all was, it was the craziest thing.

It was wonderful. Wow. It was so funny. I mean, we were, just to say, we were sitting at the table with the Obamas, but Barbra Streisand was in another room. That's what I'm saying. It's so weird.

Like she was off in the bleachers. They said, F Barbra tonight. We have BD and his mom. Yeah, that's right. So what is, is conversation very casual there like are they all like hey girl do you see this in the news like what did you think of dancing with the stars are they kind of saying that kind of chatter it is like that but then it is and it isn't you know i mean i sat directly across from michelle and obama and i oh i could not i couldn't think

of anything that seemed worthy to discuss with her and now I think of plenty of things that I could or would have said but I was really like sitting there eating just kind of I sat next to Rosalind Carter I was like talking to Rosalind Carter about

their foundation and stuff like that and oh what is it that you're doing and they've gone to Syria and you know you know and I'm like what am i doing you know i'm on a tv show great you know like it's like they're going to syria and he's building habitat for humanity houses and you know and all that stuff so i i felt i i felt decidedly unworthy i was thrilled my mother was there my mother was chatting it up with John Kerry and Mayor Daley. They got along great. She was sitting between John Kerry and Mayor Daley.

You were at that table because you were the closest thing we have to an Asian American president. And that is why you were there. Exactly. You hear that, Andrew Yang? That's right. You hear that, Andy? Know your place.

There we go. Stop grabbing bananas. You got to keep your hands to yourself in those bodegas, Andrew Yang. Those bananas don't want nothing to do with you. They want to be left alone. Before we move on to I Don't Think So, Honey, I have a very important question to ask.

Oop. Uh-huh. BD Wong, do you think Captain Li Shang was attracted to Ping? I would like to think that he was I think this is up to you

to say and I don't want to disappoint anyone and I don't want to be a coward or anything like that but you know what okay no fluidity is a big it's a very important thing to acknowledge fluidity is is something when we made the movie Fluidity is a very important thing to acknowledge.

Fluidity is something, when we made the movie, fluidity was not a word. We didn't talk about fluidity. Now we have fluidity. Now we can watch Shang and his choices and his actions and see it through the lens of fluidity. And this whole idea that there's a needle and it goes from one zero to a hundred and it's always, it doesn't have to be in one place or another. It can move.

You can change your pronouns neck the day, one day and change them the next day if you want. And, and, and, and, and that's, that's good and should be the way it is.

So in that case, I'm really, I'm recalibrating my answer. Of course he was. Of course he was. Otherwise he wouldn't have been doing all that. Yeah. Why would he,

why, what other reason would there be? Yeah. Right. I mean, he's not, he's, he's,

it's, it's not, it's, it's, it's very binary to think that he was, but I did used to say, oh no, come on you guys. That's, that's not, don't go there say, oh, no, come on, you guys.

Don't go there. That's not what that is about. That's just his very best friend. He's mentoring him. But it does remind me of the music video that Bone was in. We texted a little bit about this, that you and the Boner Bros video.

Boner Bros. And the whole notion of that kind of thing that is really fluidity, I think. It's like, do you have to say it's one thing or another? Can't you just say, well, there's this kind of inclination, but it doesn't mean I'm gay.

Whatever. It doesn't... Why can't people do that? They're really afraid to do that. they can't do it so they have to write a song about it to kind of deflect all of their discomfort about it and that's hilarious in its own right to me i'm still entertained by the song but at the same time i'm going come on you guys come on so so so we're talking about this sketch that was a pre-taped sketch on SNL written by Beck and Kyle and Fran Gillespie and Will Steven. It's a bachelor party in the woods and then the strippers come

and then all the boys break out into a song about this is a highlight of their lives that they're getting hard next to their friends. Yeah. That they're getting boners next to their friends. That is so funny when you distill it. That's what it is. We're all getting hard together. And BD texts me.

First of all, can I just out BD as like, you watch every week. You watch every week. And I watch a lot because of you. Oh, come on. I do. i want to know what you're doing and i want to be able to discuss it with you um you know we're not that close let's just call you know we're not let's just pull the wool over you know not everyone in hollywood not everyone in hollywood is very close yes that's right and and but i do um and i love it i think it's a golden age for the show i think you're in

on it at a really good time and so i'm wildly entertained by it i i certainly depended on it and in bad in me and my family depended on the show in bad in hard times in this past year in a huge way and during the whole whole Trump, the whole Trump administration. And, and so there was a, there is a huge allegiance I have to it actually. That's nice. That's really nice to hear.

So anyway, so, so, so BD texts me the next day being like, I got to talk to you about this boner video. And I'm like, Oh, like,

what do you want to talk about? And he was like, he's like, were you, were you basically saying, should I just pull up the, were you basically saying that the people who wrote it are repressing something or no, that's not what you mean?

Well, I was kind of saying what I just said a minute or two ago, which is they see it in a very binary way. I'm not gay. And so here's the irony of me getting a boner next to my... Sure.

Bro. The fact that he is there may or may not play a part in your boner. I mean, it may. Your friend. Your friend. Yeah. Your friend. The friend of the person singing whatever verse of the song.

And it's okay. It's okay to see it that way. But it's very, no pun intended, hard for people to see it that way. They need to know they're not gay. They absolutely need to know they're not gay so that they can tell whoever that it's and and even if they had a kind of a fluid moment where they well let's say they always you know you hear about it all the time blame alcohol or something on their actions or choices even if they did that it's still something that happened and why did it happen and what what did the out what role did

the alcohol play i think it's fascinating fascinating. I love thinking about it. And I think the proof in the pudding of all of this is the way women regard this whole same issue. They're much completely different about it in many cases, not to speak generally, but that you can have someone actually identify one way and then not identify that way anymore and then identify that way again,

or have a moment of, of fluidity. I just think there's more, there's a, there's blockage happening that does not need to happen. I'm not saying anything about any pretty particular on SNL at all. No, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, but,

but the fact that they are so easily slip into that role of adopting that posture is interesting. That the joke is so easily delivered through that like... Filter lens. Through the filter of masculinity where masculinity is basically like self-harm at this point. I feel like, yes. And you want to think about women getting together, like women, women syncing up their periods is not like an ironic thing. It's just this thing that's like,

it's like, Oh, isn't that beautiful? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's exactly. That's a good example.

I think. Got it. I mean, I think that straight men should just do what gay men do. And once they get boners, they should just do what we do and just like fuck each other. It's actually fabulous. It's fabulous.

It's fabulous. I think it's fabulous. Yeah. They should try it. You should try it. I welcome any straight man that's around me and gets a boner. Don't be scared of it. I have to.

Go with it. Go with it. I have yet to check off on my list hooking up with a straight guy. And I just got to do it before I die. So many with a straight guy and I just gotta do it before I die I don't think it'll be fantastic I just think it will be something yes and something to remember or to talk about

and then I'll write my sketch about it this all goes back to Li Sheng who must have felt something. He did. Yeah. He did.

Ping is the only other male character to whom Li Shang shows affection. Well, also remember, it was Mulan the whole time, but it was Mulan the whole time, so it didn't matter. There was obviously an attraction there, and it didn't actually matter. The gender expression

did not matter. The person. And I feel that in the new movie, the live action movie, it wasn't Li Shang. It was like a different character that uses a stand in, but he gay. And we'll leave it at that. They went there? Did they go there?

no they didn't go there but they didn't need to because the longing looks in live action you can't get away with the sort of trickery of animation where it's just like oh he slides down the bench and he's a little too close and it's like whoop whoop whoop I'm falling off the chair because I'm a little nervous to be close to you it's like not gonna be like that

on live action it's this guy goes into the barracks looks at male presenting mulan and i fucks the shit out of him and you can't tell me that there wasn't something there and i almost feel like if they released mulan now in the way that they did with all the panic about gender and gender expression and like what is and isn't it would be such a controversy now like you know what i mean like i feel like it would be a harder sell now yes i really do i think that people conservative parents would be like fucking up the wall about it you know what i mean right but i also think that what you just said is there's a perspective shift i mean you could see it that way

is he seeing a man or a woman when he's i fucking her him her slash him what is he seeing and what why he doesn't even know himself we can we know what we know from our experience but that's what's so beautiful about it is it doesn't matter it's it's the fact is it's it's in some ways neither here nor there he she is neither one nor the other and that's okay and then it's okay for him to have whatever response that comes with that yeah making a percentage you know deciding what percentage of desire he has for one or the other is not useful anymore really right i don't think how did you feel when they flew in Osman to sing your part? Cause I feel like that.

Are you allowed to talk about that? Are you allowed to talk about Juan? Oh, you are. Okay. What's the relationship with Donnie? Yeah. I don't have any relationship with Donnie.

I was told, first of all, I mean, I was kind of fired, you know, they, they didn't, they didn't they didn't

they brought him in and one could just say any number of reasons why they brought him in whether it was because they liked him better or they thought they wanted somebody who had a you know he has that the perfect Disney name for that

but I can't say that's the only reason I think they were... One of the things that they said to sell it to me, to let me down easy, was, well, you know, his singing voice sounds more like your singing voice than your singing voice. What does that mean?

It means trickery, foolishness, betrayal. Foolishness. It means true foolishness. I just thought i i just nodded and said oh yeah okay i don't believe that for a damn second i'm glad i was a part of any part of it i really was and it's just stupid enough to say that that you believe it you know what i mean like i can see you receiving that at the time and being like oh okay that has to make sense it's so dumb yeah and then walking away and being like wait a second yeah let's get down to business about this how about that how about that that is interesting that is so funny they said your singing voice doesn't sound as much

like you as donny osmond yeah i think i think there's some emotion to this recounting that I respect you sort of withholding because I feel like you must have felt a certain way, but you don't have to tell us. He obviously felt a certain way. What? What do you mean? About being fired from the song. Well, as the singer,

he still famously is the human voice. Of course course but like yeah yeah and i and i i this was probably the first time in a big way where well you know not that it's not that not that interesting but where i was forced to deal with something that was out of my control okay and and over my as a as a famously controlling person or a person who was always looking for control or gravitates towards feeling like they need it. It was a real adjustment for me. Like to go, Oh shit,

I don't really get this. Nothing. I can't beg them. They're not going to change. Sure. So, Oh, okay.

I guess I got a really like, uh, just kind of like try to accept this, you know? And they did it to Ming-Na too, right? They, they, cause Leo Solanga sang it, did it to Ming-Na too, right? Because Lea Salonga sang it.

But is Ming-Na a singer? Maybe that was the thing. No, she's not. I don't think she is. So she was probably not laboring. This is always the thing that has bumped me. I mean, I've thought about this for decades at this point. I go, why didn't they let BD sing the damn song?

Yeah, I think maybe they didn't they let BD sing the damn song? Yeah, I think maybe they didn't like the way I sang it. I don't know for sure, though. No, it's because they're scared of the Church of Latter-day Saints, and the Church of Latter-day Saints was going to storm the ball if they didn't have their

boy in it, okay? That's really what it is, and that's how we're going to end this conversation. They couldn't wait for their own princess. They couldn't wait for the Mormon princess we're going to get someday. Yeah, they couldn't wait for whatever that's going to be. Like

genie in the lake or whatever. Wow. I don't know what it's going to be. Genie in the lake? I don't know, bitch. I don't know Mormon culture. What don't know mormon culture what are the things that they do like casinos what is it gonna be like a casino's a casino owner's daughter that wants to be an ice skater like was that gonna be the mormon disney princess yeah well sure han says i think we'll get hate mail for not talking about sv we talked about sv you

we talked about sv you han so maybe you need to listen, okay? Straight. Is there more to say about it? You know, I... No. Okay. Alright. Unless you want to say what were you about to... I cut you off. No, I mean, it was very good to me, and I was really thankful to be on it, and it was perfect

the way, exactly the way it was. People always want me to go back to it, and I'm not... I don't think that's going to happen. Don't go back. Can you say three words to describe Mariska? Irreverent dedicated moral. We love a moral queen. We love

an irreverent queen. We love an irreverent moral queen. Dedicated as well. We can't forget dedicated. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City are back. I love that. Oh my gosh. Welcome. And last season's drama was just the tip of the iceberg.

You're recording us? I am disgusted. Never in a million years after everything we've been through did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy. We were friends! How could you do this to me? I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

Wednesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the

we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski.

Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude. You're a dude. And Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past. And we're just going to sit here and talk about them.

And we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of types of dudes are there, Grunks? We got studs, wizards. We got freaks. Or dudes dude. We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games.

We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dudes dude? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations. I was a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger.

I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that. Like years of work.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Okay, so Bowen, is it time? It's time.

This is I Don't Think So, Honey. This is our one minute segment. I Don't Think So, Honey. That's right. He's going over it in his head right he's going over it in his head he's going over it in his head oh sure after reads his text

no I'm trying you know no I'm trying to pull up my stopwatch because I want to see my 60 seconds going by oh no no no we'll hold the timer up

don't worry Matt and I are going to go first this is a true control king and it's actually a front runner for title of ep control king because he wants control over the over the timer but he doesn't know to go first. This is a true control king and it's actually a frontrunner for title of app control king because he wants control over the

timer but he doesn't know. No, I don't want control over it. I want to make sure that I see it so that I know how. You're going to see it. BD and I are similar in this way where we are self-sufficient and not get mistranslated for domineering. Any number of things that are

not. I didn't say domineering. All right. I think you both should dominate me. That's how I feel. Oh, this is, I don't think, Sony, this is our one-minute segment. We take one minute to rail against something in culture that's really getting under our skin.

Matt, do you want to go first? Yeah, I'll go first. I have something. I've been thinking about this, and it's something that's actually been lifelong. Okay, I love it. Wow. Oh, God, I wish been thinking about this and it's something actually, it's actually been lifelong. Okay. I love it. Wow.

Oh God, I wish I could do like 20 of these, but okay. Oh, on your 20th time back, you'll have done 20. I will. Good.

This is Matt Rogers' I Don't Think So Honey. His time starts now. I Don't Think So Honey, Wheel of Fortune. This is a stupid game. First of all, there's no skill involved. even if there were no one that

they cast has an ounce of it they spin the goddamn wheel it lands on bankrupt eight out of ten times it's so fucking boring and then they look up at the wheel it says it's like g blank a t the word is goat and they go i'd like to solve glatt it's like what are you fucking talking about also stop buying vowels you're losing money guess c c is in every word guess t if you have a t up there mama guess h if there's a q that's when you buy a u these idiots guessing r when it says p blank ss what is purse stop they are fools you don't need any skill involved jeopardy is the real game they need to give vanna a bigger wall roll pat say jack sucks and i'd like to solve the puzzle i don't think so money oh no and that's one minute and you didn't solve it right. That's not correct. Wow, that is brave.

Matt, that is one of your best. I'm in trouble. I constantly watch Wheel of Fortune, and I'm like, after Jeopardy, you're going to put on this? This fucking, it's like watching a New York Times crossword puzzle and then watching kids play hopscotch. It's like, get the hell out of here. Those are the poles.

Those are the sides of the same coin. After you lube up, you don't go play checkers. And Jeopardy is getting you lubed up and then you want to get fucked. And then they give you Wheel of Fortune. That is a very interesting way to look at it. Listen, after Jeopardy, I'm loose and I'm thinking,

let's go. And then they put me in a wheelchair. No, never, never, never. That was brave. And I love this world in which the,

the answers are four letter words. Go. Bowen, you would be blown away. In fact, no, of course. No, I know. I know exactly what you're blown away. In fact, no, of course. No,

I know. I know exactly what you're talking about. It's a funny thing to YouTube. Like wheel of fortune fails. Yes. And see when, when they really need to, it's really impossible to get it wrong.

And they're like, I'd like to solve the puzzle. Chicken ran. And it's like, no, it was chicken run. And whenever Pat Sajak is jack is like oh that sucks you are really dumb yeah so it is funny for that reason but i think the game is stupid the prizes

are so small they're winning no money it's like they leave with like twelve thousand dollars and they're like cool and it's like the longest running show in the history of the world. Vanna White, the poor woman. She like, I, does she like her life? We'll never know. But one time we did,

we did one time on this show, explore what the inner life of we think Vanna is. And we actually quite dramatic. It actually lends itself well to a play BD. If you want to produce, if I'm looking for a rich material. Yeah. If you're looking for rich material,

we've actually basically already scripted the whole Vanna White play, so we'll be in touch. Wait, honestly, but really quickly, this isn't even a pitch. I just want to get BD's thoughts. I think it's a play that is a game show. Uh-huh.

Set in a game show or a game show? Set in a game show, and you're seeing the game show play out, but then there's like the staging of it is such that like there's like a backstage area in which like the politics between these two hope like the dynamic between these two hosts is a little toxic and combative oh yeah so that you see the backstage antics and then then you see them on screen and see them covering up or being um kind of like like what they present to everyone else.

Yes. On stage, backstage. Right. But meanwhile, her life is crumbling. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. And he's toxic. And he's toxic. And she's been at this job for decades at this point. And her only job is to be silent and look pretty. And, you know, if you think about it, the spinning of the wheel

is actually really a good metaphor. Because what are they doing if not spinning their wheels every day? And that's what's so beautiful about it. So they never get anywhere. Nope. It's like a handball. Because that's not what happens in a circle. It's actually rule of culture number 13.

You never get anywhere. That's not what happens in a circle. No. All right. Okay, I think it's time for me. in a circle. No. Alright. Okay, I think it's time for me. I think it's time for Bo and Yang. Oh my god, look, I just pulled it up. Look at Harry.

Look at how hot he is. I mean, who could get away with that outfit? When we were watching that, I was going, okay, that is success, man. I i was going okay that is success man yeah that is i don't know anybody that could wear that the way it's a genius look and then he was covering up with these boas and i almost came in here and did i don't think so honey harry's boas because i feel the boas are a hat on a hat i know but you didn't feel that strongly about it no i didn't feel that

strong i mean he can really wear whatever he wants or as little as he wants. But I do love the opportunity to see his torso. So the boa was in the way for me personally. Well, but there was a reveal. Exactly. And we love that. Then the reveal was satisfying. Exactly.

And that's theater. The road comes back. That's theater. And so Bowenen this is gonna be your time to do i don't think so honey and can i say you're backlit in a very like sort of like glamorous way right now like i'm front list no but you have backlighting too and it's the aesthetic is very good so there's a little flare there's a little flare on the lens yeah lens on the lens like a goddamn jj ab Abrams movie in the zoom

Star Trek oh my god if we're so lucky alright so this is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So Honey and his time starts now I Don't Think So Honey construction what are you doing we have the buildings we need for the rest of humanity

and this is actually true. There is enough space for every person in this world to be housed, to live in. I'm not going to make it about a houseless situation. I'm saying stop building things.

Because it's actually ruining people's lives. Mine included. I do not pay to have noise. And I know this is such a hackneyed New York complaint, but it's this enduring one for a reason. Because they think they can get away

with it. Because they think this is part of New York life is that you have to put up with construction. Actually, we don't. New York is fine the way it is building-wise. We don't need any new developments. We don't need any new crazy, crazy buildings. I don't want all of these dorms for adults

and finance, bro, specifically built around the city anymore. Dorms for adults? I don't think so, honey. That was Bo and Yang's one minute. It's how they're marketing these buildings to people now. It's like, well, there's a pool table in the common area.

Yes, amenities. But it's not even, amenities to me are like washer and dryer and unit, dishwasher. No, no, no. It's like movie theaters. There's a theater. Yeah, that's right. Peloton. Peloton room.

There's a gym and a Peloton room now. That's how it is? That's how it is. I'm afraid of doing this. I'm so afraid of doing this. Why would you be afraid? Because you've done it many times and because I don't know. Bon, can you handle this? This is ridiculous.

This happens all the time, right? What happens all the time is that Matt and I do it and our, I don't think so honey, at this point are like C pluses throughout. Like the people who are novel at it are actually the ones who like, are able to bring some electric active

thing to it. Oh dear. And they come in and they hem and haw. Meanwhile, I just did one on a 40 year old game show. Bowen did it on construction. Neither of us are going to get anything done with this. Wheel of Fortune's not going anywhere. Cuomo's got his hands full. So it's like, what the hell?

You have an opportunity to enact change right now. You really do. I don't think I'm going to enact change. I'm just going to be, you know, I mean, I have to be as honest as I can about a situation. You know, I try not to be angry about things. So here, when I'm angry about something, I'm going to just talk about what I'm angry about, you know? Okay, good. And this is your opportunity. Or irked.

Here we go. Irked is a great way to put it. Perfect. This is BD Wong's I Don't Think So, Honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. I mean, I know that I'm late to this party, but crime scene vanishing at the Cecil Hotel

is something that I cannot abide. This is four hours or more of time that I will never, ever, ever get back in my life. I first should say, as part of my presentation, that the soul of Elisa Lam must be spinning in her grip. And we must take a moment to say that this was all based on, you know, this kind of commercialized, overhyped and poorly produced production

was at her expense. And I find that absolutely terrible. There was to get in, even into the whole terrible other aspect of it, which is the problem of paying attention to too much people on the internet. That should stop right now. I don't think so, honey.

And that's one minute. You're actually very topical. You're very topical. Because we've discussed on this very podcast that Bowen does not think so, honey, this. Oh, okay. The only thing that the show unintentionally does well is to talk about the culture around crime now. Unintentionally.

Unintentionally, because it was such drivel the way it was made. Garbage. I was so, I'm really mad about it. I think it, you've already talked about this, I know, other people have already heard about it. No, we want to hear what you say.

Well, I mean, it was absolutely irresponsible. Yes. And it was manipulated, like, kind of like taking facts and just trying to make a narrative out of them that didn't exist. You could see

it. It was also stretched beyond. Oh my God. Just stretched hopelessly stretched. Yes. And I was I'm critical of things like this or things that are in a if something I feel like I get ahead of

something or something like that but I really felt this was intelligence insulting for most people. Do you feel, do you feel that we have hit the breaking point with true crime where maybe it's just like, we need, we all need a break. Cause I feel like the reason why it was bad is because they were like,

Oh, we have an opportunity to do a true crime thing. Like let's do it without really thinking about the case, whether or not it was appropriate or like would fit. Yeah. I mean, yes like would fit. Yeah. I mean, yes, of course.

Yes. I think that, I mean, I was, I was now on my, you know, the algorithm on my, my,

my Netflix, all of this true crime is coming up and it's all Netflix produced. And I'm over it. I'm like, well, I'm not watching any more of those because you, you blew your credibility on that one. You know, there are other ones like if it

wasn't, you know, certain other shows that I've seen at other places when they produce them well, you want to see that content. But this really damaged me. I felt really abused by it. I agree. That sucks. And this is specific,

but were you not heartbroken when they cut to the parents? Yes. Anytime they, like, showed the parents, I was just like, God, these two Canadian Asian people who, like, immigrants who, like, have no idea about any of this. Got on a plane

or whatever, however they got here and just got thrown into this horrible, horrible, and the show doesn't and clearly they didn't want to be involved. They didn't attach themselves to it. They're,

they've extricated themselves from it and there's a reason for it because it's not good and it wasn't going to serve them well or her, their daughter. She was not served well. She was manipulated and turned into some kind of bizarre character when in fact she had real challenges in her life, apparently, if you were to believe everything you saw on the show.

And that's terrible too. That's like, what are we doing? Who did that and didn't think twice about it? You know, like, it takes a lot of people to make a show like this and somebody didn't raise their hand and say, hey, what are we actually trying to do here? Yeah.

We've talked about it so much that I'm like, I need to watch it, but everything we've said has been negative, so I guess I'm not going to watch this. No. I don't either. I could not recommend it less. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't say watch it

just for the research or so that we can talk about it. I would say it's a waste of time. Did you watch The Vow? I did watch The Vow. And I watched the other one on Seduced. I want to say something to the readers.

If you, like me and bowen got exhausted by the vow you gotta watch seduced seduced is better and you know who brought seduced to my attention molly shannon in the makeup trailer was like you have to watch seduce molly loves like all reality shows like all all this stuff this stuff. And she was like, no, don't watch the vow. Don't watch the vow. Watch seduced. And I watched seduced and she was right. And I'm telling you,

BD knows seduced was better. Would you agree? I think that there was something really, um, not right about the vow. I kind of got into it for the first part. I was really, and I did like the way they,

the way they positioned the vow where they they where they led us into this whole thing by showing us what was great or what apparently seemed like it was great about the program and then you got pulled into it just the way everyone else did yes and then this other seduced is like a 180 kind of weird it's a fascinating uh different perspective to have the only thing that kind of bugs me about seduced is that it's self-produced by the person who's trying to make their point oxenberg yeah right and that is like there's long i i i said there's all these long kind of her talking to the camera right yeah and i said to riker my husband i said there's all these long kind of her talking to the camera, right? Yeah.

And I said to Riker, my husband, I said, there's nobody there in the room with her. She's just talking to the camera. She's doing like totally Valerie Cherish. She's sitting there telling her story. I did feel like the way that she was saying the lines, I was like, is she being directed badly or is she just rehearsed? She definitely isn't a natural on-screen

presence but it was really interesting like seduce was just four episodes it was just like the facts they have keith ranieri on camera saying things like you know kids actually want to be raped yeah he's literally saying things like this meanwhile the vow only kind of alludes to that or maybe it gets to it later and i feel like there was an ego pump in the vow because it was people that were involved in it that were part of that thing administratively that felt like they really needed to dig themselves out of it with more more more more more meanwhile seduced it's four episodes They literally show him on camera being a monster and you get a direct perspective from someone who was like truly victimized by it.

So it's just, I preferred Seduced and I say that to the readers. As an audience member. And also, at the end of the day, neither one's some great documentary filmmaking. No, no, no. If you're looking for that, then don't watch either of them.

To compare India to Valerie Cherish it's inspired though it's inspired we love that that's the perfect intersection of culture

that we talk about here on The Culture East and a brilliant way to cap off an episode that has been our true joy we thank you so much for coming on

you are I mean to quote Wendy Williams he's got a point He's got a point. He's got a point. He's an icon. He's an icon. He's a legend.

He's a legend. And he is the moment. Now, come on. Come on now. It's BD Wong. I love you guys. Some love you so much. Someone who, I don't know,

and the girls say this now in a facetious way, like that person is the blueprint. This is someone who is the blueprint, knows that it's about community building because they say before you don't think about building a career think about building a community this is this everything that BD does is about that at its

at its root and it's so so so it's I hate saying this word but it's so inspiring but we do have to end every episode with a song who's we life is a willow and a bent right to a wheel. Now you do the next one. Oh, wow.

He's done that off book on Evermore, everybody. I don't, Evermore's not He's going to take a week to get off book on Evermore, but for now, bye.

Bye. Bye. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out, Jules.

New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I

have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.