Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Edutaintment" (w/ Sam Sanders)

Episode Date: February 17, 2021

Las Culturistas are joined by NPR correspondent, host of It's Been A Minute and active listener extraordinaire Sam Sanders, who quickly finds out that he is "held in the same high esteem as Regina King" by Bowen & Matt, which is saying quite a lot, okay?! The three show Regina respect, get into Whitney Houston's National Anthem at the Super Bowl (Sam has a great episode of IBAM that is sort of *talking to* our Britney episode, so check it out), react to Justin Timberlake's lil' apology, and get innnnnnnto Janet Jackson's music video iconography and talk favorite Janet albums. Also, the current state of daytime TV is discussed, a discussion on how IT'S A BRANDY MOMENT RIGHT NOW, theories on Clive Davis being the devil, and Sam discusses how pop culture and politics are forever intertwined. What. A. Time. What a man. Listen to and follow Sam! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo. Or stream it on City TV+. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski.

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Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba?

Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Look, Matt. Oh, I see. Wow. Oh, and look over there.

Wow, is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. How are you today? You know, I've been, um...

Ooh, the hand is on the forehead, honey. I've been on the damn California coaster. Ooh. Is that what it's called? The Incredicoaster? The Incredicoaster. What? I just feel, I just emotionally have been very up and down, up and down, up and down.

You emotionally have been on the Incredicoaster? Just because that coaster famously, like many coasters, goes up and down, hun. Up and down. And then I had Holly Hunter and Sarah Vowell screaming in my ear. Wow. Truly, the California Adventure appreciation happening already right off the jump. We have to stay on Bowen Yang.

A Disney girl. Yes, yes. I will never forget. I love the Incredicoaster. Oh, we've shared many memories. Many memories. I long for the day where I can return to the Incredicoaster. You will return and we will also once again stroll through Radiator Spring. We will. Are you... Now, I feel like it's very important for me to ask you, are you making arrangements

that whenever you get the vaccine, it will be at Disneyland? No? You're shaking your head. Okay, so there's the announcement that one of the vaccination sites is going to be Disneyland. And I would say in a perfect world, yes, of course I go and I get it sort of in front of the haunted mansion, you understand photo op. Yes. But I'll really just take it from anywhere. I mean not to sound uncouth, but I will

take it from anywhere. I'll get the vaccine wherever I can get it. Anyway, before we bring our guest in, I never do this, but I feel like Sudie said that I had to do this. She said, you have to shout her out on the pod. I just really quickly

want to just celebrate. Let's all celebrate as readers. The one, the only, Regina King. Truly, what a true, true icon. We throw that word around a lot all the time. But she is, I mean, just what a career.

And what a presence. There's only one. Everyone was just in awe. There's only one. I mean. There's only one. I thought about this. It was like 227, like boondocks.

I'm jumping around. Like Boys in the Hood. Ray. Poetic Justice. Ray ray like all of it watchman jerry mcguire she's been around forever i mean obviously we know her recent wins because she's been she's been rewarded for that in a way that she should be and needs to be yes it has been an entire career of incredible work like the fact that that like Jamie Foxx got all that awards attention for Ray and no one said anything about not just Regina King, but also Kerry Washington in that movie. I was like that movie had supporting actresses killing it.

And also Regina King and literally everything. And there was a while there where she was like ubiquitous and just always so good that no one gave the appreciation. And so to see her getting so much appreciation now rocks. And she had a great episode of SNL and you got to do a sketch, basically a two-hander with her. Oof. What a thrill. And then I told you a conversation she had with me on Saturday morning. I won't reveal it. Don't reveal that. Some things have to be private. Some things have to be private. Between the stars. Some things have to be between the stars.

It's a rule of culture. It's a rule of culture number 42. Some things have to be between the stars. Okay. I just wanted to just give that space for her. And now we have to bring in our guest who I also hold in equal esteem. Truly.

We were talking about this, you and I, Matt. Equal esteem to Regina King. Hear talking about this, you and I, Matt. Equal esteem to Regina King. Let's hear that. That is something. That is something, okay? I don't know what to do with that. There's nothing to do with it. Hold it.

You just accept it. Okay, he is a correspondent with NPR. He hosts It's Been a Minute with Sam Sanders. Incredible host. Such a good listener. And you know, he does he does active listening which i appreciate on podcasts and yes he understands because you'll see the guests will be saying something and making a point and you it will be often that you will hear sam

sort of go yep that's it yes say it yes yes yes my team has actually saved some of the umps yeah it's iconic and it is active listening and it is premier podcast hosting and I appreciate it. Oh my goodness, thank you. It's perfect synthesis of journalism meets pop culture commentary meets breaking down news items every Friday. There's two episodes each week, one on Tuesday, one on Friday. Fridays are the news summaries, Tuesdays are like the in-depth days.

Such a phenomenal list and I'm sure there's many readers who listen to the show but everyone please welcome to your ears sam sanders sam i've never gotten a more enthusiastic welcome i'm so happy to be here but you know you deserve it being a sort of regina king figure oh my god can i tell y'all my regina kane story so i interviewed her so when she was like doing all the press for watchmen uh like we got her and i didn't think we were gonna get her because she's a big deal but she and this was still the before time so folks coming coming into the office and oh my god she's gonna come in yeah yeah she had come in and uh she wanted some time and i was like sure whatever you need and she wanted time to eat her lunch and she had her assistant this lovely human being bring her like a fish plate from the south side and she just like sat there and talked

with me outside eating her fish plate just like an around the way girl so chill so down home and then we get in the interview she's opening up she's amazing but then afterwards she's just like let's take some pictures together like she's so she wants to relate to everybody and there's no there's no ego around her at all even as she gets more and more accolades here's the thing i mean matt and i sat next to her um on this talk show on facebook sonja denise had a talk show and and we were we were on it regularly like in like a guest capacity and it was us and rebecca o'neill and we were there and sonja was hosting and regina king was the guest and this was like after she had won her american crime story um but before

she won the one for seven seconds and before if bill street could talk really the buzz had really started so it was like that moment like where she was getting her due but hadn't gotten like her big do yet in the way she has recently and And she was the coolest. She came in, she looked fly as shit. All the time. Aging in reverse. And also, shout out, because, okay, her stylists are Wayman and Micah, who also styled Hot Dog. And so I actually

got to meet the people that put her together and they are the best in the biz, I can tell you. And we were, like, jamming with her on this show. But Matt, you predicted that she was going to win the Oscar for Beale Street. Well,

I said, I think you're going to win the Emmy for seven seconds, which was an even more niche prediction. No one was saying that. But then you also, you peppered in Beale Street. Yeah, the Beale Street could talk was like,

it was, it was clear that that was going to be a conversation, but damn, she's the best. And the thing is, she's been good from the start. There's never like a bad performance from her i remember when she was in that will smith movie that was like an intelligent spy thriller it was called enemy of the state oh she played his wife she was pitch perfect in that and like she's all she's just always been there

giving you the best she's got yeah yes you know what the thing is with her it's like i would liken it to when you hear like rihanna on the radio or like britney spears on the radio someone who's just like got that sound that is a signature regina king she is the signature she is she stands out like that that's how you have a real star her voice sort of like the look she can give like where it's like very soulful but also like um very comedically precise and yes that's because she was doing a ton of comedy and drama at the same time like it's crazy to see both those things kind of come to a head and i feel like watchman is such a great use of all of her talents that

yeah it's that thing of like star meets vehicle where it feels right. And for that to come post the Oscar win is like beautiful. That's beautiful. I mean, you're seeing a true solidification of the A-list stardom that she has so earned. And people forget,

she did multiple voices in the boondocks. Multiple voices. Because she was waiting for huey and they were auditioning huey and then they couldn't find the right person so then she was just like can i just play that can i just play both and they were like sure like talk about like someone who like knows what they want and like goes for it and like we should i should just say that like her input was like truly everyone took it to heart this this past week where like she had input on everything. And we were just like, yes, of course, whatever you want.

And always everything made it better. Anyway, just I love it. Regina. She's the best. We love her. I got to talk to y'all about y'all's last episode because I loved it so much. And we have to talk to you about a recent episode because we feel we actually created a companion piece moment. Oh, let's do it.

Tell me. Well, it's your Whitney episode, girl. I was really happy with that one. episode because we feel we actually created a companion piece moment oh let's do it tell me well it's your it's your whitney episode girl i was really happy with that one we so we'll do that first and then i'll talk about justin timberlake because i have thoughts on that man oh i have thoughts and i would like to hear all of them yes yes so we i had read that essay by danielle smith she wrote an like an oral history of whitney houston's national anthem at the 91 super bowl in tampa and it was perfect came out five years ago and i remember loving it back then reading it He wrote like an oral history of Whitney Houston's national anthem at the 91 Super Bowl in Tampa. And it was perfect. Came out five years ago.

And I remember loving it back then, reading it like five times over and crying. And the week of the Super Bowl at our weekly pitch meeting, our producer Janae, she was like, this might feel weird, but like an easy way for us to cover the Super Bowl without having to like talk about sports might be talking about the anniversary of this rendition. And I said, we've got just the person. And so we get Danielle Smith and the goal was to make her the middle part of our Friday episode. So no more than 12 minutes because we cut everything down. We taped it. As soon as we finished, we all got on the phone. We're like, that's the episode. That's it. There can be nothing else she was amazing she was so good and like it reminds it reminds you and this is what y'all were doing last week with britney how our culture mistreats female celebrity we mistreat them we don't value them we ask too much of them you know part of the tragedy of whitney is that she felt too much pressure to

be perfect to be the perfect pop star. And it's hard. It's hard, but I was glad that we got to make the episode. And it was, it was, it was, I mean, I was fighting back tears talking to her about it.

And I'm just glad that it got out in the world. Well, the ending of that episode where you have Danielle read from the last part of the essay and it's true poetry, the way that she talks about like the lights intersecting with the, with the sky. So that it looks like a spirit ahead. Receiving the glory of God. You're just like, oh my, take me to church.

Yeah, yeah. And it's just like, but you know what's crazy is there is a, there are so many more tragic Whitney stories in the biz that we just don't talk about. Because how many women are chewed up and spit out by the beast and then we just forget, you know? Yeah, countless. women are chewed up and spit out by the beast and then we just forget you know yeah countless i mean i think that it's it's really something to think about how much they provided to everyone and fed everyone like and i think that there is something because it's something that i really connected with in that episode and something that Danielle talks about a lot is that Whitney positioned herself to culturally be the only person that could really deliver that to the American people in that moment and she had been such a huge pop star and she had I believe

the way that she phrased it is she has experience in moving people and that the NFL recognized that. And like whoever was in charge of, um, programming that recognized that. And then she delivered it. And you guys talk really interestingly about the way that she was dressed, how she was very dressed down. Yeah. And it just, it's so crazy because it's it's literally like these women, these performers can't do enough to to to get us to just treat them well, because this is someone who just met us right on the level we needed and gave us. I mean, she sang the national anthem like it needed to be sung, not how it quote unquote should be sung, how it needed to be sung. And from that moment, she only gave more

because the Bodyguard album wasn't even a thought in anyone's head at that point. And then she would really reach even an apex that was further up from that moment. And still we treated her like she was not human by the time by the time the 90s were coming to a close she was a full-on punch line

a full-on joke and her humanity had been stripped of her in the public consciousness and so similar to britney yeah i remember watching the reality show being bobby brown at it. And now I'm ashamed that I enjoyed that. And it's just like we do this again and again and again. And I was so happy that you all talked about it in your show last week. And I'm also happy, Matt, that you shouted out the Britney album Glory because I've been playing it. And you're right. Glory is good. Glory does it for us.

What's the one where she's like, do you want to come over? That one I like a lot that what i like i'm so happy we are prolonging the do you want to come over conversation because it's really a national conversation going forward this is every episode we're going to be talking about it yes yes how do y'all so speaking of women being treated badly by the industry how do y'all feel about whatever Justin is doing now to try to you know be nice well I mean I will say

I don't think the apology is good enough I think that he really should not have grouped them together in the same apology I really feel like he needed two different women two different and when you plug it together like that, it's sort of as a way to skip over the experience of both of those women. So I think the apology should have been much more

focused on to Brittany, here's what I want to say. And here's my genuine heartfelt apology. To Janet, here's what I want to say about what I did. I'm taking accountability and letting everyone know this is what I'm apologizing for. And here's my apology. That's heartfelt. And then say, I'm going to do the work continuing and cut it. We did not need lines about how the industry is fucked up. We did not need lines about the ways in which, you know, he should be acquitted for crimes against these women. Like we needed acknowledgement, genuine apology, and a mission statement going forward about what he's going to do, and it did not provide that. So for me, it was not good enough.

Yeah, and instead it was him just sort of flattening all contexts by lumping them together and then thinking that there was like a catch all way to like treat both of those cases and I don't know if you guys agree I feel like there is no apology that like would make it right in my eyes where I'm just like no

Justin can take he can withstand this like mark on his career by like I think he can withstand that mark on his career. I think he can withstand that because there is no making it right for either Britney or Janet.

You can't give Janet back the years that she lost. No, you really can't. People forget how big of a deal Janet was. We think of Madonna as the premier pop star of that era. Janet was right up there. Yep. They were the two.

Yeah. I don't know. It's also Justin Timberlake fun fact. One, it got me thinking and reminding myself of how like his vocals were never great. The falsetto was fine. And someone pointed out to me on Twitter because I was tweeting about him last week. The final falsetto runs in Crimea River. He doesn't sing though marcia ambrosius of flowetry

is singing the crimey that's her that's not even him i mean look that happens a lot in pop music and it happens with britney we know all the time but it's just it's just like it's symbolic of it's it's it's it's further like sort of like hits home the fact that he has built his career off of women, let's just say. Women and black women, yes. People with more ability than him.

Like, and because the thing with Justin Timberlake is they really would have you believe, and I say they, capital T-H-E-Y, I was like Hollywood, would really have us believe that he can do it all. They were trying to make him

Frank Sinatra for a while. He can do it all. The whole Supti era, he was like the new rat pack kind of thing they were really pushing him as like someone who could sing dance act entertain and you know there was a moment where he was trying to be all over snl there was a moment with like the social network and stuff like they wanted to make him a renaissance man he really wasn't he just really wasn't what's so funny is like when you when you watch the social network now he really was the perfect person for that part because sean parker ends up being a weak bitch who's like crying in that in that apartment when they're

getting arrested being like uh uh what's gonna happen and going crazy and you can just tell that's like so probably what it looked like when that happened at the Super Bowl. You can kind of think in your head like he definitely was crying back there. What's going to happen? Oh my god. What's y'all's favorite Janet video?

Janet had so many great videos. I think y'all said last time favorite Britney video was Toxic, which I agree with. Or the first one. What's yours, Bo? What's yours? I love Escapade. I love, but from like All For You, I also remember it was classic, like queer, this is classic queer development where all boys sleep over.

We're watching MTV. All For You comes on and I go I turn all my friends and I go that was so good I was like wasn't that amazing wasn't Janet Jackson so good at that and they were like yeah I guess that was like for me like a sleepover moment where I was like oh my god you guys look she's standing

she's standing pop while the boys were like sure we were like oh my god look like she's in this futuristic subway station I don't know those are mine too I know those are weird pics but no that's a really good one I don't mind mine is

do it I get so lonely the titties pushed all the way up to her throat the hottest woman in the world there was no neck it was was chin, titties. And I was just like, oh my God. And then at that same time, together again,

that will always emotionally take me back. I remember that song. So beautiful. That song is just so warm to listen to. And it just lifts you up. And the video was beautiful. And then obviously, love all for you as everyone did.

Yes. What is yours? So because I grew up at that peak time when BH1 was still playing 80s videos as well. So I remember loving her in the Pleasure Principle.

This is what she's doing. She's wearing all denim. She's doing choreography with the chair. At one point, she dances and flips the chair over with the choreo and you're like mind blown.

So that one for the choreo. And then second, I think she's never looked as good as she looked in the video for Love Will Never Do Without You. Remember that one? I've seen that one.

It's all black and white. It's like photography because like Herb Ritz directed it. But she's in this lush desert with like this tank top and like this beautiful smile

and it's all black and white and then like one of the models dancing in the video is uh I can't say his name right Jamon Hinsu the guy from Amistad

oh yeah he's looking more beautiful than he ever did oh Jaiman Hunsu oh the actor yes I screwed it up yes Jaiman Hunsu yes yes he's in he's in the

video she she like does this thing where she looks at the camera and her hair is up in this coupon it's like this is miss america right here this is this is like the american dream janet jackson she when she's when she gave you that smile forget it oh my god i mean it's just everything talk about superstar also superstar what was I just thinking you said oh

when you said pleasure principle Simone doing that lip sync on Drag Race unbelievable I'm behind that's okay

that's good that's okay when you when you resume you will be so gagged because in the first episode pleasure principle is one of the lip syncs

and this queen Simone who's like definitely going to win the show did it and it was so micro lifted. Yeah. I'm going to go back to it and watch it. Also, I got to apologize to Mr. Hensu. How do I say that man's last name?

I think it's Jaiman Hunsu. Jaiman Hunsu because we can't screw up pronouncers. Like we get letters at the network if we screw up. I'm sorry, sir. Go ahead. We're not held to the same journalistic standards here. This is decidedly not NPR. It's actually rule of culture

number 104. Las Culturistas is decidedly not NPR. Decidedly. What are our favorite Janet albums? Because as soon as you said Pleasure Principle, I went Control is, I think, the all-around for me. Control has no skips.

Control has no skips. Yeah. Control has no skips. I think Rhythm Nation is maybe the best concept album in her discography. But I think Control is like, wow, nasty. When I think of you,

I'm running out of time, but that's a perfect album. There's one that I gotta go look up, actually. One of her latter albums. Is it Demita Jo? Yes. Okay, because I was just gonna say don't sleep on Demita Jo, because Demita Jo has got some stuff on it, and she is fully in her bag sexually.

And I mean, for me, the one I'm always going to think about is Velvet Rope just because it kind of came at that point. It was in 97. So it was that point where I was discovering all these ladies for myself. And that video, the video where her hair is like red and it's like kind of African themed. Which song was that for? Got Till It's Gone. The Got Till It's Gone video. Yeah, Got Till It's Gone.

Yes. With the Joni Mitchell sample? Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh man. My favorite Demetra Jo track. I'm going to tell you because I'm pulling it up. My favorite and I still run to it all the time.

All Night. Inferences Don't Stop. It's like the fast like dancey one truly i'm truly thank you because that song did not get its due it did not it was really good at all it was so good her vocals sound incredible she's just always so smooth and perfect and like the you the thing with janet is like if you really listen to the lyrics it is a ride and another track that i feel like wasn't a huge hit which i honestly believe had the super bullshit not happened then this song would have been a huge hit is feedback feedback yes i'll go her little open now in hindsight when she's like, my Asian persuasion. My Asian persuasion. I'm going to speak on behalf of the community.

I think we all loved it collectively. I was like, Janet just said Asian persuasion and feedback. I was obsessed. I was obsessed. I mean. She performed All Night Don't Stop on SNL. I remember watching her because the choreo was so amazing. She did.

Yep. And here's the thing that no one wants to talk about. Michael Jackson was doing showier moves, but Janet was a better dancer. I'm sorry. Janet was a better all around. She could do more different types of choreography. Michael just did Michael choreography. That is a really interesting.

Really good. I'm going to get letters. I mean, Janet, it felt like could do all styles. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And she had different choreographers at different phases of her career. And you saw the style to change up. Remember J-Lo in the video for That's The Way Love Goes?

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yes. Yes. Yes. God, we love it.

You know who else is an incredible dancer pop star at that time who is you know we laugh about now but paula abdul paula abdul back in the day we laugh about it now because she's just american idol she's just like me mish now like you know she had the reality show too like i think that paul you know she sat on that person in borat we honor paula we honor paula but i'm just saying that she had to ride a certain wave in the culture where she was like you know similar to everyone else like we laughed a little bit at and with paula with the american idol of it all and some of her narrative but what i'm saying is she as a dancing pop star maybe the best like when you like truly because she truly came out of dance

and also is intrinsically linked with Janet in that way. Because wasn't Paula Janet's choreographer? She was. And the Jackson family discovered Paula. She was a Laker girl and she would do choreo for the Laker girls. Some of Michael's siblings and Janet's siblings saw her and said, we want her. Get her. She had the sparkle.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now she's in this commercial for some kind of medication have you seen it yet oh yeah i've seen it where she's dancing with a younger version of herself and it's like you know what paula get your check well and you know the thing she's also now the lead judge on the mass dancer and i saw her how do you do mass dance it's very shocking but you but you know how very shocking, but you know how you do it. You know how you do it. You put them in suits.

They dance around. Surprise, one of them is Demi Lovato. I mean, like... It's just a tale as old as time. How do you do it? What's going to happen next? Like, mass Netflix watcher? Yes.

What is the bottom level? You know who'd buy that? Netflix. Netflix. Yes. Watcher. Like, what is the bottom level? You know who'd buy that? Netflix. Netflix. But like, well, Paula was on Watch What Happens Live. And you can tell that,

A, she watches all the Housewives, which I love. And B, she to this day has such a sense of humor because Andy did like top five moments from Paula's reality show on Bravo that were like insane. And it's just these five moments that are like, I don't know paula crying on the phone paula doing all this stupid shit and paula herself today is just laughing at it like what a fun thing like she's just like she's just like the consummate i'm gonna show up and get my check every time there you go listen listen yeah

and those checks good for her yeah they sure do. They sure do. What was the, not to dwell on Paula, but remember the video where she was just like dancing and singing with the streetwise cartoon cat? Yes.

Yeah. Oh, DJ Scat Cat. DJ Scat Cat. A Grammy winning music video. What? Would the music video want a Grammy?

Yes, that's Paula's one Grammy. She won a video? Oh, yeah. Anna, can we just sort of, this is true, but I'm almost positive that Paula Abdul's one Grammy win is best short form music video for Opposites Attract. You know what's giving me life right now?

Knowing that Paula Abdul has one more Grammy than The Weeknd. Oh, we'll forever always have one more Grammy than The Weeknd. Because Abel ain't winning Grammys anymore. That's confirmed. I was right. Paula Abdul Grammy winner for short form music video. Katy Perry, zero. The Weeknd, zero.

Someone posted this. Justin Timberlake 10 Grammy wins. I think Britney Spears won. We live in a society in which that happens and in which that is possible. Not to bring it back to Britney and Justin. Although I'm always happy to do that. My own thing, so

honey, I've decided we'll refer back to it. Just the conversation around it. It really is like, I think I've had some time to digest the documentary now and the fact that I'm still thinking about it like a week out is a huge deal. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Well, and it's also making me rethink other women who just disappeared. Yeah. And now I'm like, maybe they left for their sanity. Like, I think of like Tracy Chapman. She was just like humongous and everywhere. And then she was like, bye, y'all. Yeah. see you later and it's like i get it you have like you have to preserve yourself and like i don't know i'll i

won't ever get angry again when a celebrity decides to stop being a celebrity because it's really freaking hard and it's an exploitative system and seeing that doc reminds you of it. Totally. Totally. The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy.

What? You told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again.

And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude, you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them, and we'll get into the types of dudes.

What kind of types of dudes are there, Gronk? We got studs, wizards, we got freaks, or dudes dudes. We got dogss, wizards. We got freaks. Or dudes dude. We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak?

Is Tom Brady a dog or a dudes dude? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba.

He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his father in Cuba. Mr. González wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban,

I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzá Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations. I was a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger.

I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Did you guys read that piece on Shelley Duvall that just came out? I haven't. I started. I'm like halfway through it. It also sounds like the industry kind of drove her crazy. Oh, I haven't, I need to read the whole article,

but my takeaway from like a cursory, like intake of the information over the years has been that like, oh, it was like the industry, but it was also like maybe Kubrick, like traumatized her on the set of The Shining or something. Or is she just like- Oh my goodness. Basically.

Like what is that? Well, I mean, it was the industry at large, but what happened to her on The Shining was just an example of the way that she was treated a lot, which was just sort of men not having a lot of care for what a woman was going to have to do. Because if you watch The Shining, it's pretty much just like-

She's screaming the entire time. Right. It's a hysterical performance of a woman that's being emotionally traumatized in the worst way you could imagine and um he does extremely long shoots and asks for a lot of takes and i think that the way it comes off in the article anyway is that she was just expected to and sort of you know uh just counted on to provide that volume of hysteria throughout or she would sort of face like um you know his disappointment or his dismissal or and really there was no one there to to speak up for her

yeah have you seen the bts video like there video? There's footage of them on set arguing. Really? And she's like, I can't walk from the snow into this door. She's telling him, I can't do what you want me to do. And he's just, I mean, he's not yelling at her, but he's just very resolutely like, well, you have to do it. And she's just pleading with him like, well, you have to do it. And she's just like pleading with him. Like,

no, can we, can we like try to, I mean, like I'm, I'm kind of, I'm paraphrasing the interaction, but it's truly like that stayed with me.

I remember watching that video for the first time in college being like, Oh my God, they really mistreated her. And it's, it is this thing where I think she was completely, yeah. Torn down by the industry. And,

and then it's this article talks specifically about that Dr. Phil interview. Right. From like four years ago. How is he still around? Oh my God. I don't. He's just still around. Not to bring this into the conversation, but do we, do we fault?

Sam. Do we, Sam? No, no, no, no, no. Do we fault Oprah at all for bringing some of these people into the culture? You know? Like your Dr. Oz's, your Dr. Phil's,

your Nate Berkus's. Just kidding. I don't doubt. I don't fault her for bringing them in because we didn't know at that time. Of course, of course, of course. Like the 90s were different. But I kind of blame her

for not speaking out about them now. She can say things now, right? She certainly has a platform to if she wanted to help change the face of what daytime television has become. This is not her responsibility, and I almost don't even think at the time it was

her responsibility because the audience responded a certain way. The audience responding, you what i really was really was driving me nuts before we got on here as i was hearing about how tomorrow by the time this episode comes out this interview will be out there already but tamron hall is having sherry pie from drag race on her show to talk about how there were those allegations and then were confirmed to be true by Sherry herself about how Sherry was posing as a casting director and basically getting guys to put themselves on tape and do pornographic shit with this promise that they were going to be

cast in a show or movie that Sherry was producing. She a fake name allison mossy casting and she got these guys to do you know explicit stuff on camera and send it to her under the guise of like you'll get a role in a project and when this came out sherry pie was was disqualified from drag race after the season had already shot and she was a finalist. So they had to completely edit her out. But now it's over a year later that this has happened. And Tamron Hall is having Sherry on the show. And the way that the interview was promoted was sort of like... It frames Sherry as the victim.

Yeah, it's like, you know, after being hit with these lewd accusations and getting the boot from drag race breakout star sherry pie has something to say finally you won't want to miss this and it's like why are we framing were the men under age at all they weren't i don't believe that they were it's still a bad move yeah it's not it just it's part of conversation uh around like the extent of assault or like if like or just core coercing anybody like yeah it's it's it was just that was the frame around it but now it's like but now yeah this i was reading some of the tamron hall like promotional language and it was like kind of trying to like make it seem that sherry was unjustly like taken out of this competition i don't know but it'd be and that that might be subjective but but if and i'm just hearing about this from y'all if it's true that

sherry made up a fake company and did fake casting to get the nudes how do you not say that's just bad yeah it's it's just i mean it's like yeah it's like it's it's it's beyond catfishing it's like fraud and also we should say she also told some of the guys when they sent her the videos you should use steroids you need to be bigger and then a couple of the guys actually did so so there was also like a coercion into like drug use and apparently you know at least one of them had lasting issues because of that so this was emotionally and physically traumatic um in a you know profound way and so i in thinking about you know the way that these daytime tv narratives keep happening where you know i just wonder if tamron hall on this show have the real best interests of the

survivors at heart if now they're coming out and saying we don't want this to air we don't support this like we don't see why sherry pine needs a. We don't necessarily understand who's going to benefit from it besides her, who's clearly starting to try to reenter the narrative in the public. And Tamron Hall is a good journalist and she's a great interviewer and I've seen her hold people's feet to the fire a lot. But when you see an interview marketed and promoted this way, it's a red flag for me. Because what I think is going to happen is this is really going to be fed to the community that hasn't

heard about this, which is like straight people who are hungry right now to go yum yum yum cancel culture narrative that I can talk shit about. So it's like, I don't want this to be framed as yet another thing of cancel culture because she actually was an abuser and she admitted to it so also i don't understand folks you do something

like that you end up on a show like drag race and expect no one will ever find out right it's all it's gonna come out at some point like it. It is increasingly difficult to ever really cover your tracks, folks. You got to just know what you're getting. It's like, would it have gone better had they told Drag Race right before they started even? This is in my past? I don't know. But they're going to find out. It was ongoing during the competition.

It was something that had been happening and was still in process. Wait, while they were on the show, they were still doing this. They had just been like, it was like a part of their deal. You know what I mean? Like this was a,

this was like a pathological behavioral thing. So, so that's, I guess how it gets even darker. And all the Rue girls are like, don't give her this platform they're i mean they're very vocal about it jackie cox tweeted about it you know a lot of the girls have tweeted about it but it's it's it it was interesting in thinking of the daytime tv thing because there are such

sensationalist narratives that happen every single day on those programs um and you know it's just interesting that it kind of gets away with it because like it's during the day or you know like he's a doctor you know what i mean like or she's a serious journalist you know but it's like wait hold on a second like ultimately these are feeding large corporations and so we do have to think about what the hell is going on it's like fucking american idol having conway on like this this is essentially Disney presents American Idol presents the Conway redemption arc. That's really what it is.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always am flabbergasted by how much The View will trend on Twitter. Speaking of like daytime TV, I didn't know that that many people still watch The View, but I guess everybody does.

Yeah. I've been a watcher of The View for many years, but I find it hard to watch now because, well, one of our panel members, so someone who makes all the rules for this show, is Meghan McCain. Like, we have to check with her before we do any bits and stuff to see if it's cool with her.

She can be a little bit difficult. She's very sort of strict. She wants this to be a very PG, sort of conservative podcast. And so, we always have sort of conflict with her. But no, in all seriousness, it is hard for me to watch The View because she's on it.

I find her so bratty and sort of petulant. Well, and it's like, she must... I'm like, are you having fun, Megan? Do you like this? Is there a better space for you where you're just not constantly at odds with the whole rest of the folks there? See, I would be unhappy if I were in her position.

I honestly just find I think she's just an unhappy person no matter the context because I remember early days of, but this was back, this was ages ago, back when I loved Rachel Maddow when she first was on the air, but like, she would have Megan on and Megan at that point was just like a reporter for the Daily Beast, but she would come on and just like have that, like she would have that petulance and you could tell Rachel didn't really know what to do with it, but, and yet she still kept coming on.

And then it's the thing, i guess i can commend megan mccain for being able to like go into different spaces and like get her personality get her point of view across like she's on what watch what happens live all the time with like se cup and i'm just i'm truly perplexed i'm like how how does this keep happening how do we still allow her to like I'm sorry this sounds so toxic but it's like we've progressed past the need for Meghan McCain I really

believe that we have as like a media figure anyway I don't want to step out of the lane that I have to be in working for NPR but for me it's not even about ideology it's about the way that she wants to be in working for NPR. But for me, it's not even about ideology. It's about the way that she wants to have a conversation. It seems like she's never

having a conversation to learn and exchange ideas. She's having a conversation to make it an argument. She wants it to end up as an argument. And it's like, no, please, no. Well, you'll notice that a theme of almost every single time Meghan McCain is trending is that she has somehow managed to get across how hard it is for her.

It's so hard for her to get the conservative ideas across. It's so hard for her as a real conservative when Trump is running the GOP. It's so hard for her, her, her. It's always about her. And it's that is what is frustrating to watch because you're not watching an issue debated. You're watching someone express that they're

having a difficult time processing something. And it's like, yes, welcome to what it's like for everyone in the world. It's a complicated gray area. I understand you're a traditional conservative and you're at odds with what your party is, but this is about the country and not you. And it's interesting because she thinks she's always arguing for the country,

but all I ever hear and all she ever trends about is like, you know, me, me, me, me, me, me,

me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,

me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,

me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, which is probably a lot of the way that she was brought up as a senator's daughter

and the princess of Arizona. Which Aidy Bryant played on SNL. Let's really just get all this toxicity out. We're so sorry to bring this in. Let's get the toxicity out. But we need to ask Sam the question.

Let's burn the sage. In the Zoom, we have to ask Sam the question. Let's burn the sage. In the Zoom, we have to ask Sam the question we ask all of our guests, and that is, Sam, what is the culture that made you say, culture is for me? Matt, what does this question mean? It means so many things, Bowen, and I'm so happy to sort of get in there

and streamline it for the audience and for Sam or the readers and Sam. So basically, this is the moment in pop culture that made you say, Oh, okay. Yep. Got it. Got it.

Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Cool. Cool. Cool.

Cool. Yes. For me. And I've agonized over this the last few days. And I was like, well, and for a second, I was like, oh, I know what it is.

It's the day when Mariah Carey's Honey video premiered and it was shown every hour on the hour on MTV. But it's actually not that. That is a number two to just the cultural phenomenon that was VH1 in 84. That means I was like entering my teenage years in the mid nineties when VH1 was still ascendant. And what VH1 was doing back then was like a true music history education. They had two things. They had pop up video and they had behind the music. And you were learning things. You were learning things. And I remember being 12 years old, having like a working knowledge of Duran Duran. Because like VH1 taught me. Right. And so between that, I think VH1 and giving me this sense of like music history and the substance behind pop music through those two shows, it kind of like taught me that it is OK to be a total stan and geek for music and for celebrity because there's depth to it and there's layers to it and it's like when you

watch the behind the music for Celine Dion or behind the music for Fleetwood Mac or for MC Hammer or for TLC Thank you TLC! Okay I'm so happy That was the best one. When she burned that house down Oh my god! But it's like here is how you go bankrupt after selling 9 million records

and get ready to do your math. Yes. Yes. And like, it taught me that like every song that I heard on the radio had a story behind it, had a culture behind it, had real people's lives affected by it. And it is worth caring a lot about that. I think a lot of heteronormative culture teaches us that pop and celebrity and shit that the gay kids like is frivolous. And VH1 all the time was saying, no, let's not. There's layers to this shit. Let us show you. So I think that, and like, I ended up being a music major in college. Like I was a musician. I played the saxophone. I still

do. And it's like, I don't know if I would have gotten as heavy into music if not for vh1 if that makes sense really i really and like it's hard to overstate how weird they were so besides doing a lot of music history in the 90s with those shows they also played a really interesting mix of stuff like half of it was just top 40 but vh1 would do like a lot of adult contemporary they played the hell out of sean colvin i still probably know every word just when he came home yes yes and so like i was this little black nerd in south texas who was like prepared to give you a soliloquy on sean colvin and duran Duran and could tell you like Shania Twain's backstory at the age of 13. I love that. So I would say VH1 in its 90s era of educating the youth

was the culture that made culture for me. This is one of my favorite answers anyone's ever given. And it takes someone like Sam who is able like connect every dot. That is so great. And you're right. Cause where else would you have gotten that education? You wouldn't have learned. Well, and then I think of the kids now, like y'all have seen,

and y'all actually had a skit about these two young kids who do the reaction videos. Oh, twins, the new trend. Yeah. Yeah. As they play the oldies,

that wouldn't have happened if they had VH1. Right. That wouldn't have happened. Like I knew, i knew about like i knew disco songs in my youth because like it was like vh1 was teaching you that and so now part of me sees gen z discovering these songs through tiktok for the first time half me says it's cute and half of me says we failed you babies we failed you we need to educate y'all i see exactly what you're saying and then there was this piece that came out in

new york magazine last week about how tiktok is as great as it is uh as a platform for new music it is sort of flattening it in a way i think the headline is like how tiktok is flattening music but it's like talks about driver's license or olivia rodrigo as an example which i was like i was like i think it's just a great song but then the way that like it outlines like how deliberately proliferated it was makes me go oh okay so this is the new apparatus for it and there's no like genuine authentic organic discovery of like new stuff old stuff that like is in the same like container that is like a v container that is a VH1 show or something like that. I think it's important to remember that there's always been apparatus,

apparatus. Of course. Through which the music business would manipulate how songs performed. I mean, with radio, they were able to inundate radio and they're doing it now with TikTok. It is like an interesting advancement

of the way the music business can can decide for itself what is popular um but i i do think it's it's interesting that we are maybe like that last generation because i too am a 90s vh1 kid because i wasn't allowed to watch mtv which i also think is a thing um yeah uh but genuine education on music history through through that type of engagement and it's also true of television too like because these gen z kids also don't know the classic sitcoms and it's so interesting to see them be revisited by something like wandavision Because I think that a lot of people are going to watch these I Love Lucy throwbacks and the Bewitched throwbacks and be like, that's crazy. And not even understand or have a vocabulary for that type of culture in the way that we do. And I do think that those shows behind the music and pop-up video were doing a service.

They were not just entertainment, but they were education. That those shows behind the music and pop-up video were doing a service. Oh, yeah. They were not just entertainment, but they were education. I remember more from those things in terms of like things I learned as a child than I did from school for sure. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite pop-up video was probably Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson's Scream video. Because they end up revealing in the little pop-ups that at that point it was the most expensive music video ever made they spent seven million dollars just making that insane insane

that's another giant video we gotta we gotta we gotta mention i mean the white leather yeah so like y'all mentioned how songwriting itself and the songs are changing to fit tiktok what's crazier. And I had this, so I had the two hosts of this music podcast called switched on pop. I had them on my show. I love that. It's a great show. Great.

They've dug deep into how the Spotify algorithm has resulted in shorter pop songs. Yes. It's crazy because like what determines if you get on the playlist, part of it is whether or not people listen to the whole song and if they play your whole song all the way through it bumps you up so now songwriters make the song shorter so that you'll play it all the way through the average pop hit used to be three and a half minutes i think old town road was just over two minutes

it's crazy you'll see like all our like unlike ariana's records like it's like 247 like they're no longer than three minutes and also i i was wondering why it seems like there's so many long albums like a lot of tracks because that helps album streams exactly like drake has mastered that game drake will have 37 songs on his albums because you know you'll just hit play and it's like more spins for the it's crazy there's little hacks yeah yeah yeah it's interesting that like the incentives are new now to like formally change and alter like what an album is because now it's just i mean like we've known for years now that like the album has been reduced to like the square and like it's not like you don't buy a sleeve at the record store you don't buy like a even like a cd case anymore and it's like there's nothing tactile

about it and so now it's just like i do mourn the fact that albums are just completely abstract in a lot of ways now well there's there's there's less acknowledgement of the of the village it took to make a thing because there's no liner notes yeah i remember reading the liner notes of albums as a kid i remember always d'angelo's voodoo album had the most intense liner notes ever so besides the credits on the album he had written this essay about how his music was informed by uh prince and other musicians and it was like this ode to folks that he loved it was it was this wonderful companion to the album that just doesn't happen anymore and i miss that yeah but i will say this this like idea that like the plat like the platforms have always changed the art so you know yes we thought that the three and a half minute single was just the way it happened they were that long because when

records were ascendant that was the right length to fit on that size of a record. Yes. And so it's this is always the way it works. And like, I don't know what happens next, but I do think we're going to go a little too far towards too short, too quick hits. Like I want some double album flex energy with like nine minute long songs again. I think it's coming yeah i think it's coming i think it's coming i hope so yeah well when something becomes that i mean there will be someone that just breaks through that and and it's got it's gonna be someone that is like

one of our few people right now who's like at artist level like watch rihanna come back and it's just three long songs you know what i mean mean? I'd be like, eat it and deal with it. And we'll be like, yes ma'am, I will. Understand I'm not playing by your rules. Here's three 16 minute long songs and you're not going to hear from me for another seven years. Yeah, and then she disappears in a

cloud of weed smoke. She's like, I'm gone. I don't give a fuck about this. And never did. People forget the last time that everyone listened to an album all the way through at the same time when it came out was when Beyonce told us to. That's it. Since Lemonade, we haven't had that again. Right. And it's funny that, like, you think, like, it sort of happened with Taylor Swift, too.

But the thing is, like, with Beyonce, it's like it it really does feel like a piece you know and because even even with Folklore and Evermore like those those are track by track Beyonce felt like and she did announce it as such but there was a visual pieces there was an there was an arc to both and I think that's that's how you know like there are there are still those things happening there are few and far between but those artists aren't like she doesn't feel the need to play the two minute 30 13 second game like beyonce would never be thirsty enough to like need the streams you know what i mean like it does end up feeling a little transparent and thirsty when i see a 17 track album with you know songs on it with two minute

songs and especially when there's five songs that obviously can go and i mean that's that's been a lot yeah yeah i have a i have a thought i'm curious to see what you guys think so Taylor Swift is re-recording all her old music just to like because just to the Scooter Braun stuff right the Scooter Braun stuff is it like that she's like her masters were sold she's just re-recording them so she owns

the songs she will now own the masters she will now own the masters yes so I'm thinking is this the equivalent to like reboot app like treatment in terms of music where i i don't mind it but i'm like and taylor needs there's a reason why taylor is doing this but i'm thinking like are we gonna maybe see this from other artists where they are dipping back into their old music and like which is also not itself a new concept but it's like i feel like this might happen now with certain artists where they go,

Oh, let me just like redo some of my older stuff. Does that sound fully crazy? I feel like it might not. I don't think it sounds crazy. I would love it. And I would love to hear what artists would sound like doing their old stuff. Now.

Imagine Beyonce re-recording B-Day or four. Yeah. Yeah. Let them all do it. I would love or 4 let them all do it let them all do it it feels kind of like Joni Mitchell but not quite where it's like okay these are re-imaginings of songs decades later like that is so emotional and so like I want to listen to that

I don't know something about that really fascinates me because I really do think, now I am excited for the Fearless Taylor's version re-release. I'm like, I'm excited for these old Taylor Swift songs

that I remember loving and I still love, but now I'm like, oh, her voice is mature. They're going to feel different. Yeah. They're going to feel different

and I already love the love story sort of re-record the Taylor's version. Like, I find it to be really interesting thing that might be the new mental model for some artists. I don't know. I have two favorite Taylor Swift songs.

Y'all are bigger Taylor fans than me, but Lover is a perfect song. I love Lover. Thank you for saying that. The other one, the other one, I used to sit on the stoop of my duplex chain smoking cigarettes after cory dumped me what was this song he lost he's such a loser can i say something no i well i'm not friends with him and i think cory's a fucking loser no i don't need to know anything else

in the midst of that breakup i would sit on the front stoop, chain smoking to finally clean. The moment Imogen heat. Oh, clean. Clean. Perfect. Fabulous. I mean, wow.

You feel your emotional tailor. I feel, oh yeah. Oh yeah. I love that stuff. Are you a Pisces? Make me cry. I'm a Leo. I'm a Leo.

Leo. Drama. Drama. Yeah. I love that stuff. Are you a Pisces? Make me cry. I'm a Leo. I'm a Leo. Leo. Drama. Drama. Yeah, drama. I loved your interview with Phoebe Bridgers so much because you also said that you cried to her album. I sure do. So my routine, because I got into Phoebe when I was in Texas this past year, because at

a certain point during lockdown in LA, I was in downtown LA and I was like, why am I, let me go take my money to San Antonio, Texas, where it goes a lot farther and it's a lot quieter. And one of my favorite things to do would be to take my dog Zora out to McAllister park. It's one of those parks. It's so big. Like it's just kind of like hiking basically off leash. And I would be playing Phoebebe bridgers watching my dog chase deer that she would never catch gently weeping and it was like phoebe thank you and of course the first thing i told her in the interview was like i cried in your music yeah like yeah and she took it so well because she goes thank you so much and she goes i love that this is like my thing now is that people will come up to me being like your music has destroyed me and i have to be like thank you yeah you know yeah that is that has to

be so gratifying though to know that you are at this point millions of people's like emotional release like yes that really has been like a function that she has provided in so many people's lives like oh yeah and it's, for me, I guess, for me, that happened with Maggie Rogers a few years ago. Yeah. And I feel like people are feeling it now

and this, Phoebe Bridgers is sort of hitting a similar nerve. Yeah. And like, I love that like, well, one,

we got a lot of feedback from listeners after that interview. Her fan base is all over. A lot of middle-aged dads wrote me and were like bro i felt this i feel like she has she has stands all across the spectrum it's really beautiful i know i know and she was about to start touring in japan i feel like she has like international

like um appeal like she i mean she's she's phenomenal she's here to stay one of my favorite songs of all time is probably funeral it's just oh from her first album yeah it's such it's one it's just a beautiful poem but then there's this majestic string arrangements going on and the second verse that just crescendos so this wonderful like cut oh it's so good anyways i'll stop because i can keep going on her i know i feel i feel like megan is winning best new artist but i would not be surprised if phoebe bridgers has votes like she's gonna get tons of votes and i also think that you know feels like she's peaking at a good time for that i just know that you know that best new artist award like you forget that's an important thing because

really like it sets a tone like when duo won best new artist i was not motivated her it's when future nostalgia was what it was you know put pressure on her to like i think she said in interviews like that the grammy put pressure on her to deliver something really elevated um not that megan needs it not that phoebe needs it but mean, either of them would be like worthy recipients. Yeah. And what I love is that

like it seems like all of them probably like each other and their music. It seems like they'd all be really cool, you know, with each other.

Then there's the spoiler in that category, which is Doja. No, Doja. Doja deserves it. I wanted to hate on Doja, but she's talented. She can dance too. She's very talented. She can dance. I wanted to hate on Doja but she is talented. She can dance too.

She can dance. I've seen a few of her award show performances. She's got the moves. She's hitting the step. Always. VMAs, AMAs. She's always on. Billboard Music Awards. Billboard Music Awards. True star quality. I was going to say that I wish that these musicians

these best new artist musicians campaigned together the way that like Oscars, like campaigns happen, like they're all in the same interviews. Yeah. That would be amazing. Well, cause Phoebe Bridges likes making this down and she's like,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, who doesn't like, imagine she was like, well,

there's people in the category I don't care for. But no, I just feel like in terms of like, you know, she got the nomination and in terms of how much she's impacted the culture like it would be nice to see that nobody recognized Megan Thee Stallion as being like the best new artist of the year in terms

of like impact and also like just artistic relevance all that stuff Phoebe's incredible and I do love Doja. Like, you could, you could see some of those,

those awards performances. Like, when she did the Billboard Music Awards and she did the Roxy Hart, um, like, like that illusion, I was like,

she's saying, I'm giving, this is for the gays only. And I appreciated it. Yeah. Also, her verse on the Ariana remix

Yeah. Uh-huh. is great. It's better, it's better than Megan's. I on the Ariana remix is great. It's better than Megan's. I mean, they're both great. But I'm telling you, because Doja is really melodic. She's always a little sing-songy, and she's kind of half-sing. I like that. I like it.

I think I might agree. I do love Megan's verse on it. But Doja is... I always love Megan, but Doja, she is, what does Wendy say? The moment? Now come on now. She's got a point. She's got a point. She's a legend. She's an icon.

And she is the moment. The moment. Now come on now. I love that there's two nows. Now come on now. Now come on now. The perfect accent. You know, it's hard to give Doja the W there in 3435 because I also, in WAP, I'm always like feeling like, I feel like Cardi is the one that kills this.

Like it is Cardi's song, but she sets the tone in that. And I don't know, Cardi slays WAP, but then Megan comes in with, Your Honor, I'm a freak bitch. And when she says, Your Honor, that is so funny to me. Like, to think of her testifying.

Your Honor, I'm a freak bitch. I'm a freak. I like the new Cardi song too. Up. I really like it a lot. Up is great. This is real good.

The video is phenomenal. With Megan, it a lot it's great this is real good the video is phenomenal with megan it's that she's always been like coolly confident yeah that's been her stuff she changed her handle recently not her handle but her name on twitter yesterday was her birthday tina snow and i got excited i was like i'm gonna do something with that character again that was like on what her one of her first albums or mixtapes, Tina Snow. This playmate imagery. Sven Fatale heightens the moment. Yeah.

That has some of my favorite Megans. That was like old school quote unquote Megan. I don't know if you can call it that. But that was when I first discovered her and she had Big Ol' Freak. Big Ol' Freak is still the jam. It's so good. It's so good. It's so good. That was the one Bowen first showed me. discovered her and she had like big old freak and it little freak is still the jam oh my god so good that was the one bowen first showed me he was like you have to he's like we're gonna listen to megan and the first song we need is big old phrase and he would always be flitting around

bowen yang would always be saying big old freak and then he would giggle to him yeah he would and he would be giggling about and sort of flouncing about and saying big ol' freak I could tell he was feeling himself that Megan had impacted that beat is an Al Bishore sample and Al Bishore is a biological father of one of Diddy's kids oh

Diddy's light skinned son is Al Bishore's son wow yeah oh my god i mean yeah check it behind the music honestly you you should reboot it is it still going is behind the music still a thing i don't know i don't believe it is i think it should exist though and i think that there's a way if i were vh1 i'd be like how are we making behind the musics and digestible enough packages

for tiktok oh that's that's really good i mean the closest thing that there is now in tv form is like a song exploder on netflix which is also phenomenal that's true but there is something about the way that behind the music really stepped out the narrative like like the fleawood max thing like that's probably the way that I learned about the rumors of it all you know it's like I wouldn't have known about all that stuff if it weren't for that behind the music and like it should come

from like not a central place but from like a big place where there's like journalistic authority behind it does that make sense? Oh totally I'm trying to think of what you know if my management is listening NPR music do this do it do it why not oh my god even if it was just like an extension of like the podcast or something i just feel like it's something that needs to happen because i do think that like people would would really want it like i especially like for that generation that felt

just out of reach for us culturally and for example someone like me learning about pat benatar i love that like who's the who is the little gay boy right now who would they want to hear about is it like jewel i don't know like who was popular for us that they want to hear about like you know what i feel like there's an appetite for that there There is. I felt like the Gen Z kids need like a behind the music on like Brandy. Exactly right. People forget there was a moment when Brandy was the Zeitgeist. Huge. She was in Cinderella.

She had Moesha. She was doing the albums. Oh, forget it. And people also forget just how influential she is as a female R&B vocalist. She's referred to in that community as the vocal Bible. And I think that obviously because she's a black woman, she is dealt a shitty hand by the culture in terms of nostalgia for her. And it's sort of nice to see her getting this moment right now

with the Brandy Cinderella, which is that I always call it the Brandy Cinderella. It's called on the side Cinderella. But it's brandy's brandy cinderella is now on disney plus and she just released b7 and she's like got the moesha reboot so it feels like a nice moment for brandy respect right now and i would love like a companion piece that maybe this is an idea for you sam but a companion piece that is like let's actually actually remember the impact of the Brandy moment. Yes. And the vocals. She had such vocal control.

There are these YouTube videos of her just joking around, singing in the car, playing around. And that's pitch perfect. My favorite Brandy album is probably Full Moon. But there's a few tracks on there where you're just like you weren't hearing a voice that smooth in that era of r&b right she was the one she was the one yeah she also made it seem easy in a way which is just like it's big it's because it was so natural to her and she didn't have like this huge tone like like a big like sort of like belty tone she was very much like you know she had like that silky sort of pillowy sound and i think that because she didn't have this big booming whitney houston voice

people don't put her on that level but in terms terms of vocal dexterity, in terms of like having an ear in terms of, um, you know, the way that her vocals were laid in together. Like if you listen to how have you ever, like that is a genius, geniusly produced song. Um,

and also in terms of range, like when she gets into the bridge on that song where it's like, she goes, it's like, it goes, it's like, it's so high. And she's also in her basement on the verses. So she, she is,

she's got it. Have you ever been in love? I mean, that song is hard. Yeah. Oh yeah. She made it sound easy. She sure did.

I love her. I love her. Have you watched the Brandy Cinderella yet? Have you reindulged? I haven't reindulged yet.'t re-indulged i need to i remember when it came out back then how big of a headline it was because there were people who were like will america buy a multi-racial cast on this classic and then it got like 17 million viewers yeah right 17 million viewers watched it that first weekend it was out if i recall correctly

yeah it must have been that huge it's like if you have a hard time believing that a cast could be multi-ethnic, you're going to have a really hard time believing they're going to take a glass slipper around the whole town and try to get one shoe to fit in. And then based on that, he marries her. You're going to have a real hard time then, girl. If logic is your your fucking hill, you're going to die on with Cinderella. Mama girl. Like you accept the pumpkin becoming a carriage. Yeah. You got some questions about the fairy godmother tweedledy

doodledy doodling in with nothing else, but a shimmer and a pop. Like, I mean, yeah, girl. Yeah. Forget it.

Oh my goodness. Will they buy it? Will they buy it? Yeah. Yeah. Whitney in that. Beautiful. So beautiful.

Whitney in the preacher's wife soundtrack, which I still play a lot. Step by step from the Preacher's Wife. Oh my God. I mean, I would imagine that you've, you've frequented, it's like a YouTube video of Brandy and Whitney,

like prepare rehearsing together. Do it impossible. Impossible. That one. Yeah. Yeah. And where Brandy's like giving, so Brandy recently talked about, there's a part

where she goes, yeah, and she's giving Whitney a note, and she's giving her the low version of the note because she didn't want to belt the octave up in rehearsal, but she was giving Whitney that note, and Whitney looks at her in the eyes and goes, why are you down there? Yes.

And Brandy recently cleared it up she was like no I was giving her the note the octave down because I can't just belt this thing out in rehearsal that she's going to be doing so that's where the confusion was on that one I love it why are you down there is up there with

Adela Belle doing where my background singer why are you down there? They're just like the interrogative. Oh, yes. Oh, it's perfect. And also, people forget, Whitney was a mentor to all of the young ladies

in the industry as they were coming up. She mentored Alicia Keys a lot behind the scenes. They were close. They were friends. She was, she really, I don't know. She was, it's such a loss. It's such a loss. It's close. They were friends. She was really, I don't know. It's such a loss. It's such a loss. Oh, God.

We're coming up on nine years. I think we passed the nine-year mark. It's crazy that she's been gone that long. I know. It hit me hard when it happened. I took a day off of work after she died. I remember that. I was like, no.

Because it was just like... Grammys. It felt so sudden. It was a Grammy week. And then every time you found out more details, it just got more and more sad. Yeah. It got more and more sad. I cannot believe that Clive Davis still had that party that night. I cannot

believe it. That guy is the worst. And I can't believe that she died in that hotel and that he didn't cancel that event. Or that if he was going to have it, it wasn't entirely about her

and her legacy, especially her history at that Clive Davis pre-Grammy party in particular like that was one of her biggest industry coming out moments like i just i he obviously you know he took he's one of the many that took and took and took from her they have no respect for him yeah there are so many pieces about how truly just monstrous he was as it specifically as it pertained to Whitney. It's dark. It's dark, you guys. Remember when he put out, was it a year or two or three ago, he put

out his autobiography or like his memoir. Yeah. And he was like, oh, turns out I'm like actually bi. Yeah. And I think he was waiting for this outpouring of support, but everyone was like, okay, whatever, sis. Great. Yeah. We don't like you that much. Yeah. He's the devil.

Well, it's important that he is the devil. He actually is the devil. And so the devil is, the devil being bi actually doesn't surprise me at all. I knew the devil was bi. The devil is chaotic bisexual. The devil is bi. Rule of culture number 93.

The devil is a chaotic bisexual wow 100% the real housewives of Salt Lake City are back I love that I love that

oh my gosh welcome and last season's drama was just the tip of the iceberg you're recording us? I am disgusted. Never in a million years after everything we've been through

did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy. We were friends. How could you do this to me? I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Wednesdays at 9 on Bravo. Or stream it on City TV+. I'm Julian Edelman.

I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude, you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them. And we'll get into the types of dudes.

What kind of types of dudes are there, Gronk? We got studs, wizards. We got freaks. Or dudes dude. We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories

and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dudes dude? We're gonna find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations.

I was a desperate, delusional dreamer. And the desperate part, that made a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer, and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine.

I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean.

He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez.

Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom.

At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I do want to ask Sam before we move on. I don't think so, sam i feel like i feel like

it's been a minute is truly like the perfect synthesis of like pop culture again like i said and like news of the day news of the week thank you what are what are like how how do you and the team like figure out what to cover because i really think that there is the specificity and this like art to like the the point of view of the show and like it makes me always want to listen and consistently like tune in absolutely thank you i appreciate that i mean i think there's a few things like in general if there's a story that it feels like everyone is covering to death our goal is to either find a different angle on it or just skip it. So we skipped this second impeachment. We were just like, what do we add?

What do I add? You know, like. I can't do anything with that that won't, that would feel new. So we just went elsewhere. And then I think the other thing besides that is like when we started the show, we probably covered more topics. And we probably wanted our main desire was to help people laugh about the week of news. But as the news cycles have gotten more depressing and the world has just started to feel worse, we've kind of leaned into also allowing the show to be a space for people to just like shed some tears and like have a little emotional catharsis. So it's still a fun show, but we're laughing less than we were two years ago.

And we've also, we talk about less every week now. In the earliest iterations of the show, on the Friday shows, we might cover three or four different stories. And now we really just lean into less to give it more time and let it breathe a little bit more. But my philosophy about like a mix of news and popular culture, my philosophy is that you can never understand the news fully

without understanding pop culture. And I think that this dividing line that a lot of journalists have where, you know, this was the hard news and this was the soft news. I think that is structurally and systemically oppressive and racist and homophobic and sexist because all the stuff that the old school journalist voice of god reporters want to say is the soft stuff that they don't care about always happens to be stuff about women and black and brown folks and gay people. And so my desire is to say to everyone who listens that that stuff is just as important. And to also say that you cannot

understand these quote unquote hard stories about just the facts until you understand the cultural significance and emotional stuff that's in these softer stories yes for instance like people want to there were years where journalists at all kinds of news outlets including my own were saying that trump voters were motivated by economic anxiety yeah and because in their lizard brain logical journalists minds they couldn't see what it was really about and they wanted to put logic into it. But if they had done a better job, if we had done a better job of understanding the significance of culture and of cultural stories and the way that people feel and the direct reaction of some parts of white America to seeing a more diverse America on screen, we might've seen earlier that

it was never economic anxiety. It was a lot of, in some instances, racism. And so I think in order to really, stories are never just facts. Stories are never just numbers. Stories are usually always about feelings and the feelings are always more important than the facts. I'm not saying the facts don't need to be right. I want to get the facts right, but I'm not going to understand a story until I understand the emotions behind it as well. And journalists who cover hard and soft news are better at speaking to and feeling those feelings, I think. Sorry, I'm kind of rambling now. No, I'm with you. This is really fascinating because I actually, while you're talking, I'm thinking about the way that I've

learned history throughout my life. And I think that especially when you look at the American public school system, when you learn history, it's a lot of like, this was the president. This is the date this bill was passed. This, this this and it sort of just bleeds all in together and it feels irrelevant whereas i think that i would have absorbed more of those things had i known like what did people of the time like what did they do what were the interests what was popular at the time because yes facts without context you know you can't get much from it and so pop culture is the context for everything that happens and we especially see that over the past five years you know what i mean when the two truly collided and we may never go back and so i think that in that way like this this ideology that you have is exactly the

way we need to be moving because it helps give a more well-rounded understanding of life and it would be more exciting to learn the world and to learn history that way imagine if our teachers had taught us the civil rights movement with motown records as a soundtrack because it was right and so much of the symbolism of Motown and the way that they presented their black artists as polished and ready for white consumption was this was paralleled in the way that Dr. Kane was marching through the streets in a suit and tie these things are connected right and so that I want to have those kind of conversations and I want it's like it's like i i hate it when people are like well this story is just about the facts it's never just about the fact it's about all this shit wrapped up together understand it holistically you know

yeah and yeah and it's almost like when trump became president all the serious news people were like humiliated that this could be true yeah it's like they were mortified this could be true how dare they um you know have to share the screen or time or give attention to this creature of reality television and it's like girl it's knocking on your door like what is happening like in the in the homes of people and this man for better or worse has been in people's homes for decades and they understand him as something so if this makes people have to understand and grapple with the fact that yes the kardashians aren't quote-unquote famous for nothing then maybe we'll have a better understanding of the american people yes and gotta say speaking

of trump reality tv the journalists out the gate who were covering him the best were journalists that had previously covered television or pop culture interesting like my favorite reporting about him in the campaign were the articles that tied back everything he was doing on the campaign trail and in office to the crap you saw him doing for years on the apprentice it's the same playbook he uses the same playbook so like i i honestly want to have political reporters that have watched every season of survivor and american idol because like that is the culture and that is the culture that our politics now operates in you know you hit a perfect amount i get on soapbox about this

shit as you can tell no No, but you know what? It's almost like somebody said to Andy Cohen after he was doing a reunion, he was like, great job with that reunion. He should moderate the debates. And then a couple of people were like, well, you know, maybe he would actually ask questions. I was like, get Andy.

Maybe he would actually ask questions that people want to hear answered or wouldn't bail because these journalists have this sort of like, they pretend that there's still decorum. It's like when Savannah Guthrie in one of the last presidential elections, she has said to him in so many words, like, I'm not going to ask you this question like a journalist. I'm asking you this question like a human. Like, you hear yourself, right? You should always be a human. It's so crazy.

Yeah. 100%. But they don't behave like that. Yeah. That's not correct. And it's like we keep, and this was the thing that we all had to figure out at the start of the Trump administration.

Every White House reporter walking into that White House expected Donald Trump to like, and his press team to follow the rules of like the way that like you work with the press. Those weren't rules. They were norms. They were never written in stone. They were there because previous presidents chose to do it. Donald Trump has proven that everything that we thought was like etched in stone about the way DC works. It was just a gentleman's agreement. There's no rule book,

you know, and there's never going to be one again. Even things constitutionally are just suggestions. Yeah. After the second impeachment, it's like, oh, so this is all meaningless.

Got it. Like it's, I don't know. Yeah. Early on in his term. So I, so I covered the last campaign for npr and i was following bernie around for a lot that's right you're following bernie yeah yeah yeah and then uh once trump became president i began making my new show in earnest but i still

did a little bit of political reporting and i remember early on doing a story about trump's like first violation of the hatch act and i was like are they gonna get him this is an ethics violation and he violated the hatch act and now you're just like it's a joke the hatch act is a joke it's a joke yeah you know and that's i guess what worries me about um whenever anyone is like we need a healthy republican party or rich across the aisle or like biden as president i'm like this is a return to what didn't work for such a long time yeah and i i i at least have to be hopeful that like he he because he's so because we've we're never going back after trump like that he'll have to listen to progressives as we,

um, continue to hold him accountable and make sure this country is moving in the direction it needs to move. But I just, it, it's hard to know that, that we're returning to a place of like bro code. You know what I mean?

Because that's really what the constitution is. It's like, well, bro code. It's like a bunch of dudes being like like drunk at a frat party writing rules for their frat going forward hundreds of years and the idiots hundreds of years from that point are like well the dudes who made this said this dude yeah yeah and it has to be two-thirds dude it can't just be a majority dude that when you win it when it's impeachment bro because when it's impeachment bro it's actually bigger it should be bigger so like it should have to be more people though you know what i mean though yeah cool well yeah and that just feels like yeah stupid it's like it was 57

to 43 this vote and we can't fucking say this guy is guilty of his crimes like give me a break i think what is most interesting to see happen in this moment because like in spite of all of america's attention being squarely focused on donald trump for the past four or five years in actuality very little got done in dc you know like dc was not passing well save for the tax cut there were no major packages and a lot of the stuff that made a lot of visual woe was just Trump kind of screwing around on the border. But that was happening outside of Congress. And so in that absence of action, you see a larger role from big business and making change for the country. And what I am watching, and I don't want to say scared of, but maybe, it's like we're going to end up in a society

where if Washington keeps on doing nothing or being ineffectual, the Zuckerbergs and the Bezoses and the Dorseys are going to actually run the world because they're going to be able to move more quickly than DC ever can. Yeah, it's the whole premise of this video game that came out in December called Cyberpunk 2077. world because they're going to be able to move more quickly than DC ever can. It's yeah.

That's the whole premise of this video game that came out in December called cyberpunk 2077 and where it is like it's society is run by corporations. It's terrible. I, but I did love it really quickly. I did love that. You covered the Amazon, the Bessemer sort of that,

that whole sort of unionizing story instead of the, in lieu of the impeachment, right? I loved that just deliberately as a choice. Matt, what were you going to say? No, I was just saying with the one corporation of it all, and I also listened to the Amazon episode and thought it was great. It was like earlier when I was seeing

when I was watching the Conways on American Idol, I'm like, American Idol is owned by Disney. This is the biggest company in the world is the biggest company in the world presenting the biggest show in the world presenting the kelly can conway redemption arc and i was just like this feels disgusting to me because and then it feels like i almost was hesitant even like saying something about it because they are one of the one companies that owns everything and it's just like that is that's how you get a 1984 situation when one corporate

identity owns everything and if we are headed to just a battle royale with disney and amazon it's like that's really scary it's really sad that's that's that's something that needs to be top of mind because you like god forbid you were to into a trouble with one of the few companies that runs the world. What are you going to do? Like it's scary. Yeah. It's fucking scary.

It's crazy to bring up Disney and their corporate power because we're going to drop this on Tuesday of this week. Tomorrow. I interviewed Abigail Disney. Oh, did you? He's very critical of the company. Very critical of the company. And of the company and she lays out how

she just thinks disney has become a different company and it's it's they've got some like evil empire tendencies that she thinks need to be checked but she was going through the disparity between their lowest earners and their highest earners it's bonkers it's bonkers and they were giving out big bonuses in the midst of the pandemic year or like stock buybacks of some sort while they laid off like 20 like thousands of people who were like making the lowest wages and it's not just like disney this is like corporations right now period yeah and i feel like we don't talk about it enough like no companies companies are doing a lot that we just don't look at.

And we need to look at. Sorry, I'm really just diatribing now. No, no, no, no, no. I'm taking it all in. And the thing about Disney is what's really fucked up about it is they do it with a smile and they do it with their happy brand. And that's nefarious. Well, because they're able to do two things at once. Where like numerically by the numbers,

some of their financial practices draw a lot of scrutiny and a lot of folks say that's bad. But visually and the symbolism of Disney, it is so woke. Black Panther was the most impressive rollout I've ever seen from a company like that doing black stuff and they made all of us love it regardless of race so like on the one hand Disney as a company gets representation symbolically right but are they are they taking care of all their people I don't let me let me stop before I lose my job it is sometimes just it almost feels like refreshing

to talk about how dark it is because at least there's a knowledge of it. You know what I mean? Like, at least we're not like 50 years ago, like,

I'm drinking Coca-Cola. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got to talk about it. But anyway,

this sort of sentiment, how perfect for I don't think so, honey, but perfect for I don't think so, honey, Beau. Perfect for I don't think so, honey. I'm just sitting here like taking it all in, being like, yeah, oh my God, this is so, I have nothing to add. I'm just kind of astonished at how dark everything is.

But this is the perfect segue into I don't think so, honey. I mean, truly. So this is where we literally work it all out. It's our 60 second segment where we take something in pop culture that we, sorry, hate to say this word, but hate, hate to say the word hate. And we sort of exercise the First Amendment and really take it to task. Okay? Yes.

Okay, Matt, this is, I think, do you want to go first? Do you have something? I have something. Okay, so traditionally Matt goes first. This is Mattgers's i don't think so honey his time starts now i don't think so honey president's day who gives a fuck why do we need to celebrate these fucking white slave owners like what is the fucking deal change the name to american citizens day celebrate us the people that put them in fucking positions of power since the beginning of this country just so they can abuse that power against us. No fucking thank you.

I don't think so, honey. kick my heels up and celebrate the person that happens to be president especially when they can become president based on shitty fucking illegal means so no thank you president's day i don't think what joe biden needs right now is fucking pats on the backs and fucking yay joe he needs to get to work he needs to get to work for the american people president's day i don't think so honey i also don't think the hall of presidents in disney world knock it down and put up a damn roller coaster i don't think so honey and that's one minute that's gonna be a small roller coaster it's not that girl it could go in one circle i don't care it would still be more thrilling and more uh edutaining than anything in the you know what

title of that edutainment edutainment yes yes but like I just feel like to honor presidents in the year 2021 I'm like shut up we don't have to do this anymore also I don't know why we just don't

go to a system where like the holidays don't have to have a name just say you got a day off just say federal holiday number four federal holiday number five you know give us one every quarter and just say day you know it's like every year you get 25 days you fucking deserve off i don't need to know what they are. I should be able to pick them. Yes. I also have no more excitement about new holidays. You know, after the protest last year, they were like, we're going to push for Juneteenth to become a holiday. How do you feel?

I don't know, girl. I don't know. It's another. It's a holiday. Also, half of the folks talking about Juneteenth have never done Juneteenth. Oh, a lot of folks have never done Juneteenth. It's not a thing that all the blacks do, as someone who's speaking for the blacks.

Well, that is a danger in some cultural thing like that, where it's like, oh, so then from an outside point of view, people think that everybody does this. Well, like Lunar New Year.

Not every Asian does that. Exactly. side point of view like people think that everybody does this i'm not like i i well like lunar new year not every asian person exactly exactly but there's this pressure it seems like now to like really like go get into it yeah and it's like it is kind of very specific to east asian culture um and and yeah it's it to apply a wholesale to like a whole group of people is really interesting to me. I don't know. I feel like usually when it comes to holidays, like the one that gets shit on the most nowadays is 4th of July, obviously, because it's like we're not down to celebrate America. But President's Day is one that we really need to be targeting. Because that's just that's literally going out of its way to celebrate like this group of people that like suck. Yeah. And it's exactly, it's what Bowen always says or has been saying recently.

It's the individualism over collectivism. It's like, why the fuck? It's like, it's like y'all are mad that we live in a celebrity obsessed culture, but we have a thing called President's Day. No. Yeah. Yeah. I also, speaking of that, of that bone i really loved when you called out the folks who were kind of trying to be like well i wasn't mean to britney in that

time and your and your clap back was perfect because you're like we're not talking about you we're talking about these systems and structures yes i love that and thank you for that bowen i really appreciate it you're welcome everyone and thank you for being you and i love you so much and you called me yesterday we had a sister conversation love this conversation um uh love my sis um to the moon and okay so now love you so much that i'm actually gonna say it's your turn to do i don't think so and i'm okay it's the highest anticipated moment of my life. And this is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So Honey. And his time actually starts now.

I Don't Think So Honey, Diana motherfucking Sawyer. Get your Nixon standing ass away from this whole conversation. I don't even want her to apologize at this point. She's disappeared since 2014. She did a 2020 special on the pandemic.

I think the best thing for her to do is not even announce that she's retiring. It's just to never show her face again. The Britney of it all is disgusting, but then the Whitney of it all is also equally as dark. She viciously goes after her in that

damn interview. Honestly, good for Whitney for standing her space in that by being like, I don't know what it is, Diane. Tell me, do you know? Do you know? Like, truly, this woman was this media... She was a tool for misogyny and the odds. And like, again, terrorize Connie Chung. We'll never odds and like terrorize Connie Chung we'll never

forgive her for terrorizing Connie Chung more than one minute Diane Sawyer found dead not as dead as Mike Nichols but still found dead I don't think so honey I love Mr. Nichols and his work but I think

there's some darkness there. I don't know. That lady has always been suspicious to me. She's never had a good feeling about her. And can I just say, this speaks to a larger theme that I'm trying to do in my work. Stop with the gotcha journalism.

It's never good for anybody. And you will get more out of your guests if you're nice to them. But the very confrontational nature of her interviews in the 90s was like, I got you, got you, got you. That's bad. That's malpractice. We don't have to do it like that. We don't have to do that.

Because, you know, you know who's actually a really good model for this today? I think, I might be wrong on this, but I think Gayle King is like, she doesn't do gotcha. She just has this grace. Even with R. Kelly, it wasn't about getting him. It was just being like,

here's the facts. What do you have to say? Whereas with Diane's story, it was like shoving that picture in front of Whitney was just so... And also, not for nothing, but for her to be a wealthy white woman and be like what is

this to like to like to Whitney Houston it feels really disgusting in retrospect and also you know what other interview of hers I didn't like at all Michael Jackson Rihanna she interviewed she also was given the Rihanna interview after everything happened with Chris Brown and Rihanna was ready to talk about it and I'll tell you who looks mortified the entire time is Rihanna because you can tell it was not her choice to sit down with her. And I don't know what big PR company Rihanna was with. That was like, Oh,

you're going to do the interview with Diane, Diane Sawyer, because that's what we know. Cause that's, what's going to get ratings because it certainly wasn't to the benefit of Rihanna who looked miserable the entire time. So I'm in full agreeance with you, Bo.

Yeah. Rated R, great album. Rated R, amazing album. I mean, so many of Rihanna who looked miserable the entire time. So I'm in full agreeance with you, Bo. Yeah. Rated R. Great album. Rated R. Amazing album. I mean, so many of Rihanna's. We were just talking about Loud. We fucking love Loud. We love Rated R. I love Talk That Talk. Unapologetic. All of them. They're going bad, obviously. To close the loop on this Diane thing,

I mean, to get into trouble with the Disney of it all. Like ABC news just owes America an apology. I think it's apologizing to Brittany or like Whitney Houston's family. It's just like, apologize to us for the way that you like, not to use this word, but like normalized that kind of interview style.

Yeah. Like that kind of, I don't know. It's, it's, yeah's it's yeah bobber walters was the pioneer of course and the thing here's the thing though we pick on these women because because like they got these again celebrity interviews probably because it's what you're saying sam the the networks handed off the interviews about the celebrities to these women

that work and they were like you know what that's and and so guaranteed if peter jennings does that interview with rihanna it's worse you know what i mean like so it was all of media at the time it's it's it's it's the way that we were cultured that those kind of interviews went and we're picking on the women because the larger structure which was the networks gave the women those interviews so yes we we didn't start to i think the media industry popular culture at large we didn't even understand begin to understand the era of those ways we didn't even understand what it means to be woke until obama and i think obama was just like a cultural reset because all of a sudden having a black man in the space where it just to be just used to be white man meant that we had to question everything. We had to question everything.

I really think that like the emergence of wokeness is tied to the cultural reset. That was Barack Obama. A hundred percent. Like it's him. But that is again, like you like having the connective tissue of pop culture, like suspend together these like political

hard newsy facts, which is like, that's, I mean, no, that's perfect. That's like such a holistic view. Also like so much of that narrative of the 2008 election

would set the stage for what happened in the 2016 election because it all took place in the media. It all, I mean, Barack Obama became a media star. He was celebrated by the very thing that would then,

whether they want to admit to it or not, champion Donald Trump in 2016. It's about who is the star. That's why I always feel like something I always think is the star of the election will win the election. That's right. That's why people go to extremes to create stories all the time. That's why Trump was as chaotic as he was because he constantly wanted to be the star. And I think that he may have been the star of the 2020 election but he also was the villain exactly it's hard to be both and it's hard to be both and you can't with you can't keep being both exactly it's like well like

any television program people are going to want to change the channel yeah so yeah that's yeah no i agree that's the dark side to the media controlling so many things is like they will lose control we have control oh yeah well and like even the fact that like a lot of us are still grappling with i still grapple with it some of the moments in which my career has moved to the next level the quickest have been on the backs of like disaster like i the the the cacophony of the 2016 election and all the bad things that happened in that campaign around Donald Trump catapulted my career then

after George Floyd died the ratings for my show the weekly users per week per downloads for the podcast version doubled in one episode then they tripled they're still back at double but like it feels weird to know that some of your professional success has literally come on the in one episode. Then they tripled. They're still back at double. But like,

it feels weird to know that some of your professional success has literally come on the back of a dead black man, you know? But this is what our industry does. This is how, it's so weird.

Like our lifeblood is tragedy. I mean, it is not, I mean, it's not, it's not because of anything you did within your control or power to like make that happen.

It was just circumstantial and unfortunate. But yeah, that is so interesting. I just don't think that you should carry any sort of dread over that. Yeah, and not dread. It just makes you really wonder. And I think the best thing

that I can do to honor George Floyd's legacy is to amplify the voices that are shouting to the rooftops, stop killing us, which is what we have been doing on the show since that happened. So I don't feel guilt about it, but there's a certain perverse economics to the news media industry because we never want to say it. We never want to admit it, never want to admit it but the bad shit is often good for us yeah it's weird it's weird that's all i got i mean it was just so funny to me when people were saying on twitter like lol the news is boring now and it's like the last thing anyone wants to hear is that they're boring so in that way you know that news media was like

is like fuck now they're quaking let me tell you every tv exec every tv exec doing tv news is scared shitless because joe biden is many things but one of them that he is not he's not exciting he's like he's just not so it'll be interesting to see how particularly like a place like cnn changes their coverage over time we'll see well uh we have we have come to the point where it is time for sam sanders i don't think so honey now are you ready and are you prepared so can i tell you how much i'm ready and prepared so i was able to meet up with a group of friends safely uh for a week with them in a cabin in the woods around new year's go off and what we did one night is went around the fire and did i don't

think so honey come on my god that is the best thing we've ever heard oh my goodness and so my friend megan megan kane hey megan she's listening i know she's gonna be listening she's like i don't think so honey and i was like girl you need to re-record your i don't think so honey because i can just make sure that man will maybe hear it so i'm gonna send it to you once she re-records it she had the best one we love to hear it it. Okay, well, but in the meantime, we are quaking like cable news hosts. I don't want to disappoint. Oh my God.

No, I can tell you will not. I'm sure you won't. This is Sam Sanders. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Duvet covers. Why though?

Jester flop intergy there's no need get you a blanket that you can just wash there was no why are you making easy shit hard also for all the time the duvet covers have existed they've never given us like a guide on how to get it right why isn't it why aren't the why aren't the corners of duvet covers color-coded to match inside the cover and the top thing? It's like the duvet family wants to make my life hard. They want to make it rough. And when I go into an Airbnb where there isn't just a goddamn blanket,

but there's a duvet and a duvet cover and all that shit, I give you a three-star, two-star review. I don't like them. Get them out of my face. Don't make easy shit hard. I don't think so, honey. Duvet covers. That's one minute.

That's one minute. You are dead on. This is something in the culture that must be rectified now. Why do they exist? Why do they exist? Why do you have to scuba dive into a sack of cloth every time?

Literally! And everyone's going to mention, oh, there are the ways, you know, you roll it up and then you flip it back around. No, shut up. Those are the same rules that tell you how to fold a fitted sheet. There is no way. There is no way. There's no way.

I didn't even know about this duvet until I had to make a room of my own and I bought a bed of my own and I had this duvet and I was like I thought that was just a thicker blanket that went on top no bitch no it's stupid duvet nonsense you have to put this on that on this on that it's why are you making simple things hard? It's exactly what you said. Thank you. And the Duvet family is one of the worst families in the world. Oh, the Duvets?

War criminals. Oh, yeah. No, they are responsible for horrors. They're responsible for horrors. Clarissa Duvet, Morton Duvet, Ashley Duvet. Oh, Ashley Duvet. Ashley Duvet is Meghanain's best girlfriend and they they go to they go to tahoe together they do oh oh oh oh they are so you know how did you did you all both

watch barb and star i did no all right well let's just say they are the anti-Trish. Okay? And you'll get that joke when you see the movie, but fucking Ashley Duvet, she is not Trish energy. She is not Trish. Just get a blanket. Just get a fucking blanket. I'm gonna ask you both, is it not

okay to sleep with a duvet without a cover because it just feels weird and too soft? I mean, I don't think it's weird because it just feels weird and too soft i mean i don't think it's weird because it's just like you you live the way you want to live and also like if you skip the step of needing to put the duvet cover on it then good for you more power to you unfortunately it doesn't look right because we've been conditioned to think that we got to put the duvet cover on the thing and that's how a bed looks but girl it's a whole extra step and it is complicated very complicated avril lavigne it's one of the songs it's one of

avril lavigne songs yes yes that felt that was a good release for me thank y'all for giving me that space that was an incredible one you've been giving top shelf top level pop culture commentary and then to get your i don't think so any opportunity and it's duvet that is so that the power that that has the power the international implications that that has the profile that that has i love it i love it incredible such a delight i have been i'm telling you and I'll keep saying it because I mean it. I've been listening to y'all for a while and I love what y'all are doing. Like there's such a great balance between like totally off the dome riffing for your association matched with, and I know this, I can tell when y'all have really thought deeply about a thing and spent time processing how you feel about it before you tell us about it so y'all do it really well you make it seem like you just show up but i know you're preparing and i hear it and it's just great and i love what y'all do like linguistically

you're playing with language in a way that i just find really interesting that's such a fun way to put it playing with language no like jester flop making I don't think so honey a thing. The whole meaning of the word cathartic. Like, this is like playing with the language in a way that, like, honestly, I think, like, pushes the English language forward. So, I don't know. I just commend the work. Language is drag. No, please, that is ridiculous.

Please, you are so incredibly smart. You are such an aspirationally good host you're such a warm host i think bone and i both know that from being guests on your show and being made to feel so special and so interesting by you and you really do um um you really just have such a great way of getting in there on all the topics and i i like i said this whitney episode was a highlight i also loved your fashion episode about how fashion changed during the quarantine.

I thought that was really illuminating and to be, it would be an honor if we could call ourselves a sister podcast to yours. Listen, sisters,

sisters, all the sisters. And also, I realize now I've had both of you on separately. Next time we do this, y'all got to come on together.

We would be so honored. We would love to be asked anywhere. Well, everyone, please check out It's Been a Minute with Sam Sanders. And I mean, just what a true pleasure this was. I loved it. I mean, one of our best answers to the question, one of

my favorite I Don't Think So Honeys truly this episode has it all and I can't think of honeys truly this episode has it all and I can't think of a better just a better all around episode Matt Rogers wouldn't you agree? I would agree this was a

classic I'm so happy I love this and we had an amazing time and I think that Bowen we have to finish with a song and I know just the song impossible

for a plain yellow pumpkin to become a golden carriage impossible for a plain country pumpkin to join a marriage and for white horses. I don't know all of it.

I just know this part. It's possible. It's possible. And then wait, no, hold on, wait. We gotta say just finish with these two words. Zanies and fools. There we go. End of part.

Perfect. Alright, bye. there we go end of power effect alright bye bye We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was,

should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you

about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out Jules new episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL

season. Listen to dudes on dudes on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Cheryl swoops and I'm Tarika Foster Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are,

there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast presented by capital one founding partner of I heart women's sports.