Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Gay Ang Lee" (w/ Adam Shankman)

Episode Date: June 10, 2026

If you haven't heard, there's a Glamazonian Express headed directly into a massive Stormaganza. For more information, you must see Stop! That! Train! in theaters June 12th! That film's director, the incredible Adam Shankman, joins Matt + Bowen today to discuss the new movie, and his indelible contributions to cinema: movies like Hairspray, A Walk To Remember, The Wedding Planner and so much more. Also, Adam discusses The Sound of Music as his formative culture, and explains (for the very first time) its link to a traumatic time in his young life when he was put into conversion therapy. All this, Bowen's parasocial attachment to Adam going way back to the A Walk To Remember DVD commentary, comedy's very necessary cinematic resurgence, the blossoming of Jon M. Chu, the reckoning facing Steve Spielberg on STD Day, and finally an answer to the question, "can you talk to someone with wet hair?" Stop! That! Train! and Listen! To! Las Cultch! Adam is the greatest <3See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hauda Kotmi. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.

Listen to Joy 101 on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, this is Teddy Mellencamp. And Tamara Judge from Two Tees in a Pod. There's been one scandal that's consumed our lives these last couple of months. We're recapping the three parts Summer House reunion. And as always, we're being brutally honest. We're dissecting timelines, receipts, blind items, and previous episodes.

Amanda and Wes, watch out. We're not getting to be easy on you. Listen to two T's in a pod on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is. Getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akila Hughes, and Rebel Spirit season two is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city,

in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslavers than they were to enslaved people. Listen to Rebel Spirit season two on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Look, Matt. Where? Oh, I see. Wow.

Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling.

Ace is sniffing my little shoe. We are visited once again. By the mascot, the king. By a dog, the king, Ace. He's got a little bit of a new cut. and Star Quality. We were told that when we began the episode, he may make an entrance and look, who is here,

but he's not the only person here. Oh, there's a gentleman of great, another gentleman of great repute and renown. Yeah. I think he's gay Ang Lee for the versatility in his work. That's really major. To be gay angly.

I was going through it. I was like, oh, sure. Big musical, Nicholas Sparks adaptation. Yeah. fucking airplane-esque drag a comedy. Like, what can't the man do? I have to say, so.

The gayest thing is to make a Nicholas Sparks movie. Yeah, and speaking of that one, so I remember, this is the way I describe my interactions with the film, a walk to remember when I was a kid. Sometimes I would play it just to see how much I could cry. You know, it's like when you're a little gay boy. the Roost of Projects. Just kidding.

That's When you are a little gay boy and you just want to push yourself to like an emotional limit but you need like a gay dramatic excuse For me it was watching Mandy Moore die in a film. Right and did you run to the bathroom to the mirror? Spoiler alert.

Of course. What are tears if you can't see them in the mirror? It's actually Realo Culture number seven. What are tears if you can't see them in the mirror? You know, Dinkuk has a great joke about that. What does he say? Because he has a lot of great jokes. Bring him back.

Bring him back. BK. Lounge. Come on. No, he has, I think it was like, it's his third album or whatever. It was like, you know, you just, every time you cry, you just gotta go to the fucking mirror and watch yourself. See, I like that about Dane Cook. He's man enough to admit he's gay.

And that's Rule of Culture Number 11. So that's why I like Dan Cook. Dan Cook, man enough to admit he's gay. He's gay. Sorry. Sufi's pretty gay. God didn't want me to make that joke. So he stopped me right in the middle. He made me say Dan Cook.

at my mouth. Speaking of God, can I talk about my experience with the Walk to Remember? Go on now. War that DVD out. And I've told Mani this, but the commentary You stay mentioning the commentary. Adam of our guest, Shane West, Mandy Moore, the three of them,

having a blast, barely talking about the movie, just every few minutes going, oh, there's Gerald Hannah in a wig, and then just going on and on. Oh my God, wait. Walk to remember has one of the great oners. Great oner in the beginning. Talk about the oneer. Well, just, it's just one, one take and then in the first.

I know, but which one? I don't remember it. It's been a second. It's when they go to that, you know, like, you know, cement factory or whatever or just, right? Like the, like, they, they get that, they get that kit. The reason why Shane West, why Landon gets suspended or gets in trouble. Yeah. Has to go.

Right, right, right, right, right. The, the inciting. So what? Not the inciting, just, uh... Just a good, it was a good, it was a good, whatever. It's a good one or whatever. What the fuck. Save the cat.

Persecuting us. and stop making us get everything right all the time. This is a podcast that gets a little messy. It's a prison now. It gets a little messy sometimes. Oh, God. Anyway, it's great that our guest is here to talk about the 24th anniversary of Walk to Remember. Just kidding.

Stop That Train is a film that is an experience. I would just go ahead as to say, you can't be on enough of an edible to get and watch, to get yourself together to watch this movie. I am in it. I do play the press secretary. I am honored to live in a world where RuPaul is the president of the United States in this film. Judy Gagwell. Gagwell.

Yeah. Stupid fucking name. I get to do all sorts of shenanigans with Rue. We went to the premiere and saw the movie. Melissa and I, we screamed. It has so many incredible people in the cast giving great performances. Jujubi and Ginger Man are the stars.

By the way, we are the number one Jujubi Fians. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that was a big reason why they became friends, actually, as close as we were. We were the Jujibian, Pandora. Yes. Oh, no, Jujib and Raven. I'm sorry. We love Pandora. We love Pandora box. Okay, so anyway.

We are the juju and Raven. But yeah, our guest is the best. Also directed, I don't know, hairspray. Come on. Fuck. If anything, the Culture Awards this year was just an Adam Schenkeman sort of love letter. We had Britney Snow. We were just talking about that. And Malin Ackerman from Rock of Ages.

Underrated. I don't care what anyone says. Mandy Moore herself. Yes. And Ruple. and Miss Rupertel herself. The new muse. Yeah.

The new Schenckman muse. The new Shank Mews. I hope to be a Shank Mews one day. I'm ready to bring the Shank Mews, Shankman in. So that you can hopefully become the Shank Mews by the end of the episode. All right.

Everyone, please welcome the Gay Angley. Adam Shankman. Do you like Gay Angley as a title of Epp? How about Gangly? Gangly. Not gangly like the guy. No. Gangly.

Gangly gangly, gangly. Did they call you that in school? Britain at prison. Yeah, that was my prison. What prison did you graduate from? Not enough time. Not enough time. Prison?

I have nothing to add about prison. I'm not, I'm getting in trouble. You just said that this is a podcast has become a prison. It's a prison. We have tons of experience. It's a golden prison. It is a gilded cage. It is a gilded cage, as it were.

Do you? Do you? remember that when I met you, you were doing a podcast? I was. All of this whole manifestation of coming and being on this podcast voice now is really pretty intense. Okay. For reasons beyond the fact that I am a slavish listener. I do not miss.

I had to actually, when I heard John Waters say my name, when you guys talked about me with John Waters, I had to pull over and I started crying. No. I couldn't believe it. And I, and every time I hear you guys mention one of the things that I've done or one of the people I've worked with, I'm like, oh, God, what's going to what's happening right now? That's not, and that's still news to you?

But it's, it is news to me because I live in a very small world. I live a very tiny life. I really do. But Matt and I met when I was doing a podcast. RuPaul had me on a, What's the Tea? On What's the Tea. And we shocked.

it in a little hotel room on Robertson and some weird little hotel that does that even exist anymore? I don't know, but I can't remember what it was, but I remember like I was told to go there to go to this weird hotel. I knocked on the door. They let me in and RuPaul is mid-podcast with Adam Shankman and I sat in the room while to wait for them to finish because I was going on after. And yeah, well that's crazy. But I feel like you have to sit on the bed. I was sitting on the bed while you guys were finishing into like directors chairs or something and it was. It's an Even crazier story, though. So earlier that day, I met RuPaul for the first time because this is, and this is T,

Imagine was doing a reboot of Star Booty. And Matt was attached to develop and write it. You're fucking whole right now. I literally earlier that day, I brought my 12-page treatment in for Star Booty. I had a meeting with RuPaul because imagine like picked my treatment that they liked the best. I go, I sit down, I walk in, RuPaul comes in, and obviously look, statu-esque, gorgeous.

This is like, it's RuPaul. And I go, RuPaul, how are you? And RuPaul goes, I don't see how that is any of your business. Classic rule line. Classic classic classic. I just not. I looked him in the eye and I said, you're right. And I should fuck off.

And he goes, ha, ha, ha. And that's when I, because I knew how to talk to him because of the show. But we, like, hit it off. And he invited me on the podcast. I was nobody. and I walk in and there's you, a director that we have always loved. Oh, seriously. Jesus Christ, that makes me sound old, but great.

Oh, stop it. No, no, no, no, but you fucking shut up. You just shut the fuck up. This is turned to come back so quickly. This has become a prison. I knew that exactly that this is where this was all headed. Of course it was. But yes, we met them, but then I forgot about you completely.

Yes, 100%. And you existed in no part of my brain. And then during the pandemic, during lockdown, I had been in a long 13-year relationship that ended about two weeks into lockdown. Into lockdown, yeah. And I was alone. I had no pod, no bubble, no anything. And so all my relationships were being kept alive both on social media. Well, somewhat not so much on social media, but it was podcasts and Zooms.

Yeah, it was podcasts and Zooms. And I had this great, I had the greatest Zoom club ever with the greatest people ever, which I don't know, do you know about this weird thing? Yeah, he has like famous game, game night. The Academy Award winning trivia contest thing. They, these people are the hardest core game players in Hollywood. Do not know about that? It was pretty.

I heard. And we would get together every week on, Friday, we, on Zoom, we would have watched a movie the Oscar winning best pictures starting from the very beginning. From wings? Wow. And then we, so this is how we occupied herself, but what we'd get on the Zoom, we'd do a trivia contest.

And whoever was hosting that week, we'd rotate, who is the host of that, would ask the trivia questions and we'd give a prize at the end which there's a whole other weird story about this. But what started happening, we started... showing up on the Zoom in costume as either somebody from or something from the movie. Fun incredible. And I, the pictures that I have,

because we have them all, Melissa and Ben as the box of chocolates from Forrest Gump, is one of the craziest things. Wait, Amy Adams, for Patton, built a Sherman tank out of Amazon boxes, like, and things like that. And it was in the talk. It was all.

All crafty. Everything was just anything we could find around our house. I was the, oh, in terms of endearment, I was the portrait. I was the Renoir. Oh, wow. Was anyone the shot? No. I'm in awe. It was crazy.

You guys got all the way up to the 90s? No, we did them all. And we had to add that we kept going after the pandemic. Oh my God. Because we liked it so much, including while everybody was in different countries filming, like Melissa and Ben were in Australia doing non-perific. And then she was doing Ursula at one point. Still committed.

We were all doing it. We would find our time zones while I was doing disenchanted. I was in Dublin doing it. And I was in drag as Velma for Chicago. Like it is, it was fucking crazy. Wow. Greatest time. But during that period, I started to realize that I have no gay friends.

No. Just Hollywood list actresses. Yeah, exactly. Just the women they worship. I had like, I guess. my life had really shrunk into kind of the business and my family and my friends growing up. And I started listening to you guys and Stradio and Keep it. Yes.

And I one day, what had happened is you guys became like my friends because I had no one else other than my Zoom friends who were dressed as the hand from Jaws and the sand, you know. And that's a good pull too. And she and and I had this weird thing come over me where I thought, what if I DM these people who I don't know. I don't know if they're going to know who I am. If not, I'm just going to say something nice to them because I am so grateful for their company. And so I DM'd both of you. I DM'd Lewis and I DM.

And I just went like, hi, I'm Adam. I don't know. Like, I just want to tell you, thank you so much. You know, I love your pod. And it's really helping me during the lockdown. And you guys got back to me. Yes. Very.

And that's how this started. And now it's like, and now I'm sitting here. And then I feel like we're always hitting each other up just to like check in and say, hey. We do. We do. I mean, I've like talked to you, I've like come to you when there's like been boy problems. Oh, I know. I love running into you turning it on the floor at Hollywood Equinox. This man, if you want to find him, you might just find him choreographing the next Rupal's Drag Race mega mix on the floor at Hollywood Equinox. He don't care who's watching.

This is the turning thing. Let's now tease my keep it. You're going to tease my. I'm going to do here. I mean, this is this is a. Another thing that people... Yeah, my keep it just turned into an I don't think so, honey. I always forget that you... Your dancer down. Oh, yeah.

You are, and you taught John M. Chu everything he knows. Step up, John M. True. I am so proud of that man who I still think of as a boy because like I remember when he came in for... I remember when he first came into the office, that was a crazy thing. Like when we were doing... Step Up 2, which was his first movie, was supposed to go straight to video. And he came in and met with us. And I was like, I'd been reading about this guy forever in the trades as being, you know, the next this and the next that.

And he was attached to all these projects. And then he came in to meet with us on this straight to video sequel to Step Up, which I was like, isn't he too fancy for this? This is crazy. And he came in and he said, no. I love dancing and to be honest I can't get any of those movies made and I want to do this this seems like it would be great for me

because it was a dance IP that was gonna get made and he was really really into the dancers he was friends with all the dancers and so we hired him and I sat there and watched that man blossom wow in front of me and then when 3D happened

I was like you've lost your mind what is this movie that you're making. Step up 3D. Yes. Yeah. It's crazy. And I, yeah, I produced all those movies.

But I was so proud of him. And I, his passion, his passion for filmmaking is actually sort of equal, I would say, from a director standpoint to what Tom Cruise is for acting. Wow. Just this, this undiscriminating love for it. Yeah. Like, that's perfect. Like John coming in to be like, I can't even like.

It's not even about getting the things that he wants made. It's just he wants to do it because this thing will get made. And that is the perfect sort of thing. It's like this. Like Matt and I are even talking about this now where we're just like, you know what? When we take out our stuff, let's just make sure it gets made. That's the most important thing.

He also has a, he has something so different. Like, I can barely say the names of my own movies. Like I can barely like, I can't. I don't have, my relationship with my own work is very, um, uh, uh, stressful. Yeah. And, um, where as he, his is not. He, he, he, he really truly loves. Yeah.

You know, yeah. He lives it. He lives it. He lives it. He lives it. He lives it. Sitting watching, sitting watching him watch Wicked was almost as good as Wicked. He, that man loves Wicked and I love it.

It's so cool. It's really, really something. Yeah. You know, I was like, I'm, I'll never like it as much as him. So to contrast, amazing. Well, because, okay, so to contrast to that,

before we got on the mic, you were saying, I was like, I can't wait to see Stop That Train, June 12th. You're like, I will still never watch my own work. And I was about to ask you,

what was the last thing of yours that you watched? And can you now answer that question? Yeah. I've seen two of my movies since I made them. Okay. Wow. One was, and by the way, all the way through.

Because sometimes, like, my movies will be on TV when I have, like, my TV. My TV just runs in my house. And sometimes I'll see something and I'll change the channel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I see something that I've made. Bringing down the house comes on. You're bringing, you're turning off the TV. Bringing down the house, I just put my hand over my mouth.

And I put like that because I'm like, I was like, I can't. That's actually one of the few movies that I've made that I quote, but I don't quote it from I would quote it from my memory of making it but not from like a cut yeah yeah yeah yeah but I can't believe

like that movie could never get made today there's no way what's a beautiful time castle and it was yeah I mean Steve Martin is running around that club and acting like a rapper at the end with Joan Plowright smoking in the black club

smoking a duby and the it was crazy anyway Jeannie Smart like I mean I mean, Missy Pyle. I mean, that is... Love Missy. Another Shank Muse.

By the way, that is a big shanky. Missy Pyle basically steals the movie in her scenes and stop that train. She steals every movie. Like every movie. But say the two movies that you've seen. The two movies that I've seen was when I was... I have no problem talking about this. When I was...

Because it was in the news. Plenty. When I went to rehab 12 and a half years ago, on New Year's Eve by the way there's very few things that are as depressing as New Year's Eve in rehab and I was in a lovely rehab but it was it's still pretty grim

and everybody wants to you know is going like all the things that we can't do but we're on New Year's Eve yeah yeah and morning all the New Year's Eve passed and all the things which by the way nobody remembered any of them yeah it was you know it's rehab and there was about there was about 12 of us there

and at about at eight the celebrations were over and because they gave you know we had a nice dinner and then whatever and so we go into the common room and there's a big TV in there and we turned it on and

walked remember was starting and oh by the way none of them knew what I did for a living and I said so I went oh maybe we don't watch this And everyone, no, no, no, no, we love this movie. And that was the first time I was like, wait, what?

And then, which, watch, I remember what you say? Anyway, they were like, no, we love this movie like that. And I said, guys, please. And this one girl who was really, really tough, who had the, were tramp tattooed on the inside of her lip. She had an inner lip, in her lap, a tenor-lark. Trempe. I hope she becomes president.

And she was hiding from the law in rehab. That was the point of her father had put there. and he was waiting to smuggle her to Mexico. He was waiting to get her out to smuggle her to Mexico. Jesus, but first we had to get her nice and clean. And so we're in there. We're in there and she busts in. She goes, don't touch that fucking dial.

This is my favorite movie. And I was like, okay, so I sat there. And then it said Adam Shankman in the credits. And people sort of turned and looked at me and I shrugged. And then nobody said anything. And then everybody turned to look at the TV. And I sat and I watched the movie.

And it was hard for me to watch. But then there was a moment where I sort of dropped in. And I was just aware of what it was about and the message. And I started to like pay attention to that part of it. and what was going on scene by scene. And afterwards, I went like, I think I'm really proud that that's the story I told and that I put that out in the world.

And I can criticize myself and my work and the craft behind it, which was my second movie. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. And I can, remembering like the scene where she's standing on both, you know, in two places at the same time. I was just quoting that to someone.

We shot that in 20 minutes, that whole scene. I think because Mandy was a minor and her time was done, she was about to pumpkin. And so we ran into that spot, turned the car lights on, and just shot that. I kept going, no, I'll run! Now turn the camera! Now turn the camera!

And that's how that scene happened. It happened in 20 minutes. Indelible scene I'd never forgotten. And I've always thought that that scene was really, really sweet. It's one of the most romantic things to me that's ever been in a fictional film. So I feel, I felt really good about having made that. I would, I'll never watch it again, but I, but I, but I felt good about making it. What was the, and what's the second?

Unless you want to keep talking about this. No, it's fine. Because that rehab story is incredible, by the way. I can't believe you didn't say anything beforehand. I didn't know what to say. Of course, of course. I was like, we don't, we, we, like in the therapies there, we did, it's not like we sat around and talked about our jobs.

Got it right. So it was. It was already an emotional night because it was New Year's. Yeah. And you're with all these people. And I was already an anarchist there anyway. It's like I made them celebrate Christmas when they weren't supposed to celebrate Christmas. That's the most anarchist thing you could do.

Yeah, it's Jewish. A Jewish wanting Christmas. This is cultural. Anarchy. And then the other one was somebody I was dating really twisted my arm and said they had never seen hairspray. and they wanted to watch it with me. And I just went, I said there's some ground rules.

Yeah. Can't talk during it. Yeah, don't ask me questions. Don't ask me questions during it. Number one. Great rule. Number two, I am, you will see my face twisting.

Probably because I will be having some reaction because my memory of making that movie is so precious to me. Yeah. And so glorious. And it was the absolute best, time of my life making it. And I, and I, so then I was like, I'm scared of what, how I'm going to feel about it today. Totally. And I said, just please don't ask me questions. And then if you want to

know something afterwards, you're going to have to let me process it. Because I know that it's a loud movie. It's like, there's a lot going on in it. Stimulating. It's a very stimulating movie. I mean, that was the intent. And so, um, so we sat and I watched it. And it was. And it was, was sometimes painful. And then sometimes I was really proud of the kids particularly. And then I was sort of stunned at how little dialogue there is in it. I was like, I didn't even remember how little dialogue there is in it. It's almost a sung through.

It's an opera. It's an opera. Yes, the rule of children number seven. Hairspray is an opera. It's the second rule of the seven of the day. That's a good sign. It means we're not thinking about the number. So what was that about it, though?

Was it just that, like, it was your opportunity to direct, like, I guess, what is commonly known as one of the modern great musicals? Like, it's an opportunity to take something to the screen. What do you mean? Me, my, wanting, my directing it? I guess when you talk about how that was, like, the peak, like, that was, like, a wonderful, incredible, like, magical time making that movie. I would imagine it was because it's the opportunity to totally blow out, like, one.

One of the great modern musicals. I had never made a movie with dancing really in it. And dancing was my background. I come from theater and choreography and I'm dancing, whatever. And so it was sort of strange that it was my fifth movie and that I had made the other four movies without including any big dance. And it was sort of notable, at least in my head. That my whole life had been dance up until I started directing and then it was no dance. And then so this was kind of, if I was going to do it, it was that.

I had an emotional connection with it because I, when Mark Schaeman and Scott Whitman were writing it, I would be at their summer house and I was around while they were writing it. I was listening to Jennifer Lewis like sing down. Oh, wow. Yes, she was singing your original. Yeah. Wow. I was aware of it.

I went to the opening night in Seattle when it was out of town tryouts. Mark and Scott are two of my closest friends. and and when, and so I had a lot of hairspray in me. Plus, I was a crazy fan of John Waters version. And I, and so all of it was a perfect combination of all these things. Yeah, of all these things. So when I, oh, I have a story you're going to like. When I, when it happened, it took a long time for them to.

actually end up coming to me and they had gone with some other people and then those people didn't work out and some stuff happened and I'd been really hurt because I really wanted to do it and then they got I was really really close and then I didn't and it was the first movie I'd really fought for and it was really hard because two of my best friends had written it so it was there was it was emotionally fraught yeah and I and when I finally got it I was in this was so crazy I was in Baltimore shooting the first step up. Wow. Which was my best friend, Anne Fletcher, who directed the first step up.

It was her first film. And I was producing it. Yep. And it was it the first movie I produced? Anyway, I can't even remember. Anyway, so we were there. I'm in Baltimore. And I get a call saying like, it's you. We want you to direct hairspray. And I sort of took it in and I was like, okay. and I said, can I have John Watt, can somebody get me John Waters email

because I want to send him an email. There wasn't really, I don't remember doing a lot of texting back then, whatever in the early arts. But we, but so somebody sent me John's thing, and I wrote him an email and all the emails that was, dear Mr. Waters, my name is Adam Shankman, and I've been hired to direct the new version of the musical of Hairspray.

I hope you don't mind. best Adam Schengen. And he wrote me back within three minutes and said, this is so fabulous. Where are you? And I said, well, weirdly, I'm in Baltimore. And this is all over email. And he said, fabulous. Can we have lunch tomorrow? Oh. And I froze. I was like panic stricken. But of course I was like in my freezing, my fingers were at least unfrozen enough to write the word, uh, yeah. And we had lunch the

next day. And I'm still processing that I'm making the movie and I'm sitting with John Waters and he's just telling me, oh, it's going to be fabulous and fabulous and I was like, you know, look, I'm really nervous because there's your version and the fans of your version and then there's the fans of the musical. Yeah. And it's a really, like those are really intense fan bases and they're they're going to be have a bull's eye on me and or a target on me and um he said, oh fuck everybody the whole tradition of hair spray do what you do you're fabulous you just do you yeah and i really took that in yeah and then he said and i believe i'd had had a couple glasses of wine

because i was very nervous and he said do want to go see where i shot the movie and i went yeah and so we jumped in his giant crazy boat of a car at the time which was convertible and it was the summer and he drove me around all the locations where he shot the movie and then he was like want to see where the real people lived that I based it on and I said yeah and he took me around to that and then he said that's so it's so cool and then he said want to come over to my house wow and I was like yeah and I had this full day with John steeped in you know the the legitimate lore of hairspray yeah and it all felt very lovely it was it was it was it's like a it was it's like he blessed me doing the movie. And so I took it very, very seriously. And I spent a lot, and I was very, very careful about, like, choreographing it and how, how I was going to do everything. And I was very, very, I was in on, I was in that, yeah. Can I say something about this? Yeah. That I think kind of tries to connect all these things together. Um, I think John Waters is a director who, uh, does not really

care about the outcome. And I think that is a really liberating thing that I don't think I'm trying to work towards. I think because we are in a business that treats accomplishment in a very specific way, you can look at accomplishment either in an outcomes-centered way or in a skill and mastery-centered way. And the outcome-centered way means that you think, well, if this, depending on whatever outcome, it will determine my worth as a person. And then the sort of skill-centered way to think about it is, let me do this so that I can get better at this thing just to see.

That's an oversimplification, right? It's not really an oversimplification. I think sometimes oversimplifications are just the truth. Sure. You know, it's just the basic truth. Totally. And that is true. Hey, Bowen, point of order.

It feels like nothing is what it says it is anymore. Point of answer, it's because everything has a catch. Hey, or it turns out to be something else entirely. Like a total catfish situation. Exactly, though. Except for Hotels.com. Yeah, that one's pretty literal. Because it's Hotels.com. It's in the domain.

You go there, you book hotels, hundreds of thousands of them. And hold up. That's it? That's it. And when stays are booked as a member, rewards are earned every time. Every stay? Every stay. No tracking or managing. Just rewards that can be used like cash on future bookings. Which, by the way, already feels nicer.

than most rewards programs. Okay? Yeah. Members can also get up to 20% off booking, so savings start right away. Does that mean no weird restrictions? And no blackout dates. Book what works when it works.

It's actually really fitting of real travel. So the name is honest, you're saying? And their awards are too. Exactly. Hotels.com. It's all in the name. Do you ever think about a random pop culture moment? Like something that dominated the culture

and then quietly disappeared? We do constantly. This is Bestie Listen. Every week, we revisit the most niche corners of pop culture. The stuff that shaped us were better or worse. And ask, what was that? And more importantly, why do we love it? We celebrate it.

We question it. And give it the level of analysis it absolutely did not ask for. Stream best you listen on Iheart Radio, crave. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. You can't order it, you can't borrow it or simply hope it into life. But now, there's a new. new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast

hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. Together, guys, we'll have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, entertainment legends, sports icons, wellness experts, and everyday people will share how they find, allow, and experience joy. And I'll offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced and harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy. Tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Joy after a breakup. Joy as an empty nester.

Joy after a loss. Joy as a caretaker. This new podcast will speak to you. Listen to Joy 101 on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can hear it, true, but now see it. Crime Stories now available with video episodes, free in the IHeart app. Watch all your favorite podcasts, full episodes, start to finish, gavel to gavel, soup to nuts, all in the free IHeart app. You can also watch all your other favorite podcasts like,

Hey Jonas, Los Coulteristas, post run high, and so many more. Hear the voices you know. Now see them and see the moments you've missed. Open the IHeart Radio app, search video podcasts, crime stories and then just tap watch i'll see you on video friend things are getting eerie this week on snafu with ed helms my favorite murderer hosts karen kilgariff and georgia hardsd stark join me for the unsolved kidnapping of william morgan it's a great true crime story filled with secret society intrigue and murder freemason files karen you just birthed a conspiracy and i'm I'm here for it. Yay.

Listen to Snaffoo on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And I feel like John Waters is someone who I feel like had this incredible development as a director where he evolved so seamlessly from one thing into the next, even though it's such a wide breadth of work. Like, well, staying very him. Exactly. And I feel like, and like, as you probably heard in his interview with us, it's like he was just like, yeah, whatever. Like the trades hated it. whatever. You, I think, I would imagine that you, while you have a hard time watching your own work, I think it's because you are watching it from a skills, even though you're thinking about the outcomes.

Harrisport was a huge success. Many of your movies are huge successes. And I hope the same is true for Stop That Train. But I feel like you should look back on your work or just, I don't know, talk about it with us or with friends or fans, whatever. in terms of you sort of furthering your skill as a director. Well, that's actually how, thank you, that's very kind. And that's how I feel, first of all, it feels really nice just sitting with my friends and talking. Yes. But the, I feel very strongly that I haven't gotten good enough of what I do.

And like I have so far to go. You should always feel like that way. I have so many stories in me. That's beautiful. And I have, but it has nothing do with having like some drum to beat. It's just like there's there's just a lot. There's a lot to do. And yes, I can get on a set and I definitely know how it works. And I know what I do well, which is actually get us through a day. And to it was a huge part of,

that was a lot of my experience on Stop That train too because you can imagine part of its charm. Yes. The fact that it is very low budget. Yeah. You know what I mean? What was it? 22 days? 19. 19 days shoot. Wow. What? With like with about approximately 7,000 cast members and, you know, like a lot of considerations obviously most, the vast majority of the cast is getting into full drag.

That's right. You know what I mean? Like, many locations, quote unquote, lots going on. And it really, honestly, when we were shooting it, like, you were just like, yep, great. This is great. And you were just so confident in moving on.

I remember I turned to you and I was like, you feel good. And he was I was like, I wouldn't move on if I didn't. And I was like, you're right, I shouldn't have even fucking asked. And I actually felt like a dipshit for asking. Because I'm like, of course he knows to move on. No, I understand. But if you have a feeling, it's valid.

I guess my thing is I just like, I just want it. But it's probably the same thing, right? It's like you want to do a good job. You want to make sure that you made the use of that time. But I just like really respect a director that knows exactly what he wants, gets it and confidently moves on. That is leadership. Well, thank you.

That's kind. But you are also everybody who is doing it. ended up exceeding what was like what was on the page was really good which is why y'all did it yeah Connor and christina they went to dramatic writing at tish and i went back and did the commencement speech and their whole department is so proud of them oh that was so happy that they got to have that opportunity well everybody they they did such a great job and everybody most people when they would try to improv would end up being like yeah you know it's not as good as the script and so they everybody did it and then brought whatever they brought into it

And it elevated it. And so most things, I didn't have to do much because everybody was swimming in the same direction. And everybody knew what the drill was and how fast we were going to go. And people are starting to bring up our steady cam shot in it around the oval. And they're like, how many times you do that?

I was like 17. 17? We did it 17 times. Still a low number. Not really. I was the choreographer on board. Boogie Nights and I think we did that opening shot of Boogie Nights like 11 times

I mean it was like an hour and a half reset I don't know I'd have to call Paul but There is one really fun oneer of a tracking shot that Rue and I do with a bunch of the extras in the Oval Office yes and I remember

when I when you sent the script I that was I read it that scene and I was like oh this is going to be legitimately really because it reminded me of airplane and Yeah. It's, Bowen and I went to go see the Naked Gun in theaters. Actually, I saw it two days in a row because I am so craving movies like this.

With high joke density. It's a very, this is a very high joke density. Every scene has like a game that it's playing and a joke like Austin Powers. You know what I mean? Where you can kind of boil it down to like every scene is like a sketch. Yeah, and you just throw logic out the window and it's all of that. It's, that's what its design is. And so you guys were great at it.

What, I mean, the fun part for me, sitting in the audience and watching people, watch the movie and that scene, is they're laughing through so much of it. Yeah, they miss all of it. They miss all the jokes. Yeah, it's like that. And so they're going to be compelled to watch it again. And I think it's going to be like really, well, first of all, I have to say I, I don't, you never really know because like, algorithmically the bubble of it all. Like, you don't know if just the people. I remember, I thought bros was going to make a hundred million the first weekend.

I never know and I'm always like a little surprise sometimes when something is either a hit or not so successful but it feels really good I just had the gayest moment ever where I was listening to you caught job you pointed to his shoe and said cute

I mean they are so cute they really are so fucking gay oh my god the shoes are you me it was so well let me say something this is what we call an FYC shoe.

This is the show you wear to the FYC. It's not for your consideration. Finger clapping. Finger clapping. Oh my God. Finger clap. Finger clap.

So. It is so cute. But no. This is what we're talking about. It's like, it's like, I like that things aren't as like box office. Well,

maybe they still are and I'm just choosing to ignore it. But it's like, it seems like the outcome of the box office gross, like determining the worth of something. I'm just like, I didn't, we never bought into that. Dude, dude, backroom making $81 million this weekend. Sick.

Wow. It's like one of the craziest things I've ever heard. And people are describing it's like kind of more of a vibe. Yeah, an obsession is like thing like that. Gen Z people. And it's like it's, it's not like people aren't going and paying money to go to the theaters. I mean, look, the outsized, there's something for me, particularly because of what I do, obviously, which is

sad to me that, that, you know, there are a third of the comedies being released, then there are of the horror now when i my favorite words to say when i produced the oscars uh i did a tribute to horror yes in there and the academy was actually they were not pleased of course with that because they it felt a little i think at the time it felt like low to them in some way and we were not that at that point they were not courting younger viewers and i remember also like during that thing they were not thrilled that i brought out all of the it was the year that john hughes died And I brought out all the cast members from the John Hughes movies. Why?

That was too low culture? No, it was like, well, you're pulling him out of the in-memorium and you're making a thing about him. And there was like, and I was like, he is the reason why half this room is doing what they do. Exactly. So everybody needs to just pump the brakes, yeah. And we got to see them all standing on stage together,

which is really cool. I remember that. So amazing. But you're saying, like, horror, like, has this new appreciation. It's appreciated in value, right? It's appreciated in value and you don't need stars. You don't need stars. So you don't need stars to sell at the concept sell themselves.

Yep. And you have imagery matched with score and music that can do like a very, very desired dopamine hit by the audiences. And the dopamine hits that you get in comedy generally, because comedies are much softer now. They used to be much more outrageous, much more thing. I mean, when you go back to the early

Brooks and you go back to the airplanes and you do all that. You were getting dopamine because you could not believe what the fuck was coming out of anybody's math. Yeah, it was more shock. It was so much that so you could get that same kind of feeling and we're so numbed out now that when we have these movies that are giving us the promise of those dopamine hits, then that's going to be when you don't have star salaries to do. My thesis was that like comedy is undervalued right now. It is. In a way, in a literal sense of like, it is a very necessary thing

that people are not appreciating in the way that I feel like they should, which is that comedy is inherently, comedy is inherently optimistic, and that is in short supply. That makes it soft. That makes it soft. But I think with movies like Naked Gun remake

and with Stop That Train now, it's like, this is actually hugely important in the same way that you go to a horror movie, you go to the theater for a horror movie to scream and be surprised, with an audience and have this communal experience. Like Matt and I loved going to naked gun and laughing along with a room full of people because I was like, and then we were a little stone, but I was like, oh, this feels so foreign.

Well, so, by the way, we were in a fight that day. And we actually were actually reaching the apex of the conflict as we were going up to escalators at Alamo Draft House to see the movie. And then we watched it and it did help. It helped. And we were like, we have to put our feelings aside. we're about to watch naked gun. And then it was like,

we were laughing. We loved it so much. Well, that's the whole thing is, it's relief. It's literally. It's relief. And this is why I'm saying, like, yes,

I think, like, people don't want to make risks, but also people are, it's, it's, it's, they're just too afraid to, because comedy is like, there's a hit percentage with it, right?

Like, and then, so there's risk in making it, in terms of making the movie, people think different things are funny. Exactly. And I feel like because you can't like plan for what's exactly going to happen audience-wise, it's the first to go. That's why Stop That Train actually is why I jumped at it so much is because Stop That Train's brand of humor is universal.

Yes. It's like it's slapstick. Yeah. It's smart. You can laugh with stupid smart. You can laugh with it muted. A thousand percent. And also you didn't like that joke?

Wait three seconds. Wait three seconds. Wait three seconds. You'll forget about that joke. and you're gonna like the next one. Yeah. Wait three seconds after that. Which is why the comparison to horror is interesting

because in a horror film, it's like a scream or a scare can be spaced out pretty far. Yeah. Right? It's like you are thinking of comedies in like a laughs per minute way. Unless it's like a very heavily plotted out comedy.

Sure. If it's a plot heavy comedy. I mean, look, scary movies coming out. Yes. Yes, I was thinking it's June 5th and June 12th. For them to be two of those movies just a week apart is, I think, a big victory. Yeah.

There's a good joke density there. Yes, yes. And so I feel good about being a part of it. I've never, as queer coded as all my movies are, because I'm the one who made them. I, you know, this is for sure, this is straight down the, straight down the vibe. Thank you for casting Shane West.

Little gay me was so happy about that. I mean, want to know the funny. I just recently found... You weren't with all the Twinks. I just recently found their chemistry read. Oh, that's fun. I just found it. By the way, one of the biggest compliments I'll give about that movie,

the incredible chemistry they found together. Oh, yes. And what? Was that her first film? No, she had made... She had done Princess Diaries. Yeah. Well, you know, she was playing a stock type there.

She was leading... She was... Yeah, yeah. She was playing in a weird way. like the bitchy version of her candy of her pop star person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that probably was an easy self to like, oh, there's Mandy Moore. She's going to play

like the mean girl. And she's blonde. She's going to pick on Anne with her brown curly hair, et cetera. But then to see her just all that vulnerability and all that kindness and goodness that is so inherent in her. Do you get to know her now? Besides the chemistry read. Okay, so the studio wanted Jessica Simpson. Mm. So they wanted Jessica Simpson because they

wanted her, well, it was a, it was a very low, that was a low budget movie. Oh, she was also super Christian. And she was very Christian famously. Yeah. And Andrew Lloyd Weber, this is the tea that we got, Andrew Wood Weber was interested in her for Christine and Phantom and they wanted to use Walk to Remember to kind of audition that. And, um, that crazy, crazy man. And so, and so I, um, and so we had lunch and that was its own thing with her and her dad and they were lovely at the Warner Brothers yeah at the Warner Brothers cafeteria but I was driving home and on the radio a little voice came over the radio singing a little song called I want to be with you my favorite song I try but I can't seem to get us of love

and anything and it had just all that breathiness to it and I love her. I went, God, that voice, that's like, that would be like how I pictured Jamie singing. And then I went and I looked up what the album cover looked like.

Do you remember what that album cover? The white with her like blowing out of it. Yeah. That's her. That's Jamie. I went, oh my God, please God let her be able to act. Please God let her be able to act. And this is what happens.

So I met with her. She came to lunch at the IV for a meeting with me holding her copy of Walk to Remember. The book. The book when she was 16, I got 15, 16. And our first day of shooting was her 17th birthday. That I do remember. And she came and she was so Mandy. Like what you get now is like just the more mature version of what it was.

But that sweetness, that innocence, that little laugh, that the big dough I think, that was all there then. And I just was like, in my head the whole time, I was like, God, please let her be able to act. Please let her be able to act. And so I read her and she was good. And then I had her do the chemistry read with Shane, who was pretty popular on his TV show at that time. And I will tell you this, neither of them were particularly good in the reading, in terms, like, they didn't have their characters down. Sure.

But the way they listened to each other and the chemistry they had, I was like, I can't teach that. I can't direct that. So that became them. And it was, that's how that went down. Okay, Adam Schenckman, it's time to ask you the question. Okay. What is the culture that made you say culture is for me?

It's funny because all roads lead back to both culture and also being gay. Yes. And I really, I really fought between two subjects because they were both very impactful for me. But I would say the culture that made me, no, culture was for me, would have to be seeing the sound of music for the first time. And why I say that also relates to my, because I was very, very young, movie was made. Like, they used to re-release movies very quickly. back then into the theaters.

Like I was born in 1964, and which I believe is when it was made. And, uh, or came out. And so I think I was probably about three or four. When I saw it for the first time because my parents were really into playing musical. My mom loved them and,

and, and they exposed me to musical. I was very drawn to it very early. Yeah. And, um, some inappropriate stuff, by the way.

Chicago and and but you know the the sexual stuff all flew over my head whatever I was really into just looking at the costumes and and and listening the music and watching the women watching Anita to put on her nylon starring Anita's gonna get a kick and and and I are putting on perfume and anyway so I saw that that opening shot with those flutes and coming down and finding Julie Andrews spinning in a circle skirt on the top of that mountain, I think my head fell off its bottom. Like I are like I suddenly was born. Yeah. And then to track this story of this person who has so much good and so much love in her, who is also naughty and kind of a rule breaker and then lives this insane fantasy life in wealth, surrounded, never giving up being who she is, and then gets the fallen in love with by this stud.

And finding love and all that, I was just like, I want that. Yeah. This is me, I am this. This is everything I dream of in my entire life. It was like every, even at that age, all of it was fulfilled. And that's how old I was when I saw it. And I have an unfortunately good memory.

Fortunate for us. Well, I have, yeah, plenty to go around. And that to me was everything because it also tethers into the gay. And I had sort of, and what's interesting about it. And I want to talk about the cultural significance of Sound of Music. if you like, but also it tethers into what I had pre told you about, which is, you know, which is that that kind of fantasist living and my relating to Maria and wanting to be Maria and to have that experience was, I started to say to my parents like, I want to, I want to be a

girl, I want to be a girl. And in 1967, my, 68, my parents were, my mom and dad were 22 and 23 when I was born. And it was not okay. And they were very concerned about me. And they wanted to know the best way to parent me. And they're very liberal. My parents were very liberal. And they were, so they sought some help.

And there was a program at UCLA for kids with gender dysmorphia. And so they talked to the doctor and they felt like he said, can help him and you know we'll we'll figure this out and they and my mom drove me to these so i'd see him twice a week privately and then twice i'm sorry twice a month privately and twice a month studied with a group and what my mother sitting in the thing didn't know is she had inadvertently put me in conversion therapy at four years old and what that man did and said was so will never be undone. I will be fighting with that inner narrative of what,

like I'm bad, like my existence is bad. And I was told in, you know, in so many words that if I was, if I said I was a girl, if I said I wanted to be a girl or any of these things, which had to do with fabric and like a Prince Charming taking care of me, that my parents would discard me. I would perish. I would starve. I'd have no friends.

I'd never know any love. I was four years old. And this man said it to me over and over and over again. And in different ways. And the way my mother describes what was happening was at a certain point, she started to get very concerned because she said she saw my light go out. Yeah. Oh, God.

And I stopped being the singing day. fancy, happy kid that you see at Equinox. And that I was becoming quiet. And one day I just said to her, I don't want to go back and see Dr. Green. And she was like, no problem. And they took me out. And-

When did it stop? How far in, yeah? I don't know. I want to text my mom, but like, you know, at least six months. I mean, so you were that young when you were able to vocalize. like and and the real and what I want to be very clear about was I wanted to be a girl I did not feel like a girl it was I was not

I think everyone understands I said the same I said the same I said the same thing you know I wanted to put a towel in in my in my the back of me so that I feel like I had long hair I wanted to be Tina yeah I was about I was about I was about and it was about but it really was a lot about like wanting to be taken care of and protected of course it was the difference between you know this is a an oversimplification, another one. It's the difference between drag and being and feeling like you are in the wrong body. Yes. But yes. So of course.

And yet, and how does your, like, because my mom having gone through a similar thing at a very different age for a much shorter amount of time, like my parents now are still like, we are so sorry that we put you through that. My parents feel like it's the most harm they've ever done.

They cannot, they cannot cope with it in some ways. And that's another layer of pain. We've come to, they were lied to. They were lied to. And they were young. It wasn't because they didn't love you. It was not because they didn't love me.

It was because they were trying to figure out the best way to make their beloved baby son feel safe and okay. And unfortunately, they were lied to and put me in the hands of a monster. And who, and the worst thing that I realized when I had to honestly. obviously a ton of therapy and all of that, that I realized that happened was, because I think to myself, you know, that ended at a certain point. Why is this still haunting me?

And I realized it's because I made his voice mine. Yes, that's exactly yeah. I was gonna say, yeah. I made his voice mine, but I was too young to know any different. And it became like this life narrative where it's all been about like pleasing and shame and this and that and the next thing. And I, and, and, and, and,

And not feeling safe a lot of the time. And that's why set is so important to me because I feel so safe at work. I know exactly what I'm supposed to be doing there. I feel appreciated. I feel, you know, you get me off set. I'm a fucking disaster. I don't know how to walk around in the world

like a normal person. It was after I was on, so you think you can dance. And I was for that period of time kind of like TV famous. Yeah, an on-air personality. and people would come up to it. I was like, I don't. And if you want to know,

you want to be set up for a drug and alcohol problem, that shit sets you up for a drug and alcohol problem. That happened to me when I was a kid. And, and it was the only way I could cope. And so anyway,

all that is to say, yes, my parents are, um, we'll never be able to express their, On the other hand, when they then outed me when I was graduating high school, because like I had a girlfriend. I was like, they were like, just, we want you to know X, Y, Z, they took me on separate trips. They were divorced at that point.

And they took me on separate trips and basically told me that they either knew or felt good about me gay, which was the worst possible thing that they could have said to me. Yeah, we know. You're not fooling anyone, King. Well, I wasn't out to me. Exactly. So I was like, what the fuck is happening? And I would be like, I am not. And there was this.

And they're like, well, just in case. And then my mom sending me books called Now That We Know. And I'm like, oh my God. Now that we know. And I'm like, I'm losing my mind. Of course. Because coming out took me so long. Yeah.

And I was like, every time I would say to one of my friends, I like, I'm gay. I'm gay. And they'd be like, yeah. Like, this is, like, and I was like, what? How does everybody know this thing that I'm? So frustrating when that happened. It was so weird. Because you're using so much energy to convince everyone otherwise.

But I was so lucky to come out into love. Yeah. You know what I mean? That, that I know is a blessing that not everybody gets. But the thing that happened when I was young will never fucking go away. And it drives me crazy. Yeah. It will never go away.

But you've already done the worst. which is to like name it, externalize it. It is not a part of you. It's bouncing around, but it's, as long as you can be like, that's Dr. Green. Yeah. He's dead. That's, he's dead.

He lived a sad life where he was causing harm at the end of the day. And guess what he was. Gay. Well, I would imagine that's, that's. Yeah, that was like my, you know, there was some talk about him, like my, suspecting that like my parents felt like he hit on my dad kind of thing. Like there was like, of course.

My dad was hot when he was young. So yeah. Anyway, lucky him. But anyway, that having to do with the sound of music. No, but that is it all, it's a, it's a, first of all, thank you for sharing that. And I think that unfortunately, a lot of times like, it's those things that bring us into the light, which also makes us kind of expose ourselves. And sometimes it happens a little earlier than we're ready. Or, you know, we sort of, you know, we become bigger, more expressive versions of ourselves when, and then all of a sudden we've revealed too much.

And the world is mean. And the world is mean. And it's very interesting because during this sort of press run for Stop That Train, I'm constantly being asked what pride means to me because we're coming out into gay pride. And, you know, as silly as a question that made, because it's so like, I don't know, you want the Wikipedia? Do you want that way? What are you, what are we talking about? You know, for me, the gratitude that I have and need to express more rather than the complaint, because we actually live in a place where being us is legal. And even though they want to take away rights and stuff, like a lot of them,

these days, it's still legal and we're allowed to exist, whereas there's places in this earth where people are stone to death and that are jailed for being simply who they are. Right. And so to not acknowledge that we get to have that as we fight for ourselves right now, which we have to, it felt strange to, and then to see that there was like some talk about reversing the conversion ban,

Yeah. I was like, what the fuck? Like that that is I have firsthand experiences do you and and it's kind of they're now trying to frame it or they're trying to make us believe that actually limiting conversion therapy would be limiting like I guess like free speech and I guess like some sort of like religious practice. You know what I mean? Because it's like it's it's it's it's it's almost as if saying no you can't pray the gay away is like anti God. Right. When meanwhile we're just stating a fact you are not. able to pray the gayway. It's not sacrilegious. It's just truth. Well, it's also you're trying to inflict your beliefs on someone else, which is like, and make somebody else's truth and reality yours, uh, involuntarily. Uh, yeah. That's what, that's what, that's what, and, and to say that it's a parent's to say, I mean, uh, to, if a child express it, like, it is expressing themselves that the parents are upset with what they, they, have in front of them their child,

you know, to potentially put them in extraordinary mental and emotional duress and harm to make them more how they would like them to be is patently wrong. While these people are saying it's to protect the children. It's like this, it's, it's tail as old as time. Yeah.

It's like it's parody on the Simpsons at this point. Yeah. It's like, what about the children woman? It's like... Well, that's what, that's what, you know, that's been the best way to campaign. Do you know what sense? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. To the children, no.

The children. But you are endangering the children. It's crazy how dissonant that whole thing is. Which brings us back to the sound of music when the Nazis and the children's right. By the way, you know that I did make a movie with a Nazi subplot that has. has the sound of music, which is the pacifier. Which is, which is, which. Another Britney Snow film.

My first Britney Snow film. Your first Britney Snow film. And there, Max the area has a plot where Vin Diesel discovered, he's dyed his hair blonde, bleached his hair blonde and finds a swastika armband in his dressing room and thinks that the kid is a Nazi and follows him to one of his meetings where he meets up in an alley with other blonde guys wearing Nazi arm bands and then when he follows him in they're just rehearsing a production of sound of music

perfect perfect so I got to make the Disney movie with the Nazi subplot although I would say I guess Beddops and Brumsticks has a nice war you know time thing going on in there too yeah sure but it's not Nazis specific but it's beautiful thing you're talking about in sound of music

this way where it's like it's Maria you can your surrogate is Maria and it's the children right like as a kid you're like, I want to, I just want to be one of the Von Trapp kids. Yeah. And, but then as you grow up, you're like, oh, right, I identify with her because it's like, she's a good heart, but she's misunderstood and she just needs to like find the right place. And that's how I continue to feel.

Yes. In life, you know, and which is, which is fine. Like, it's, I'm not mad at who I am and how I am. I'm like, it's, it's who I'm and I've had like a freaking amazing life. I've had opportunities and experiences that when I, like, lay it out, I can, can't even fathom that person. And yet, here I am. And all I want to do is just get another job and work, you know?

Of course. We identify with this completely. And I also just want to say, I feel compelled to say. And I know you're like, why does this kid keep talking about the DVD commentary of a walk to remember? You know what happened because of that DVD commentary. What happened? Well, first of all, it did become a thing.

was like a whole like fan site devoted to it like there was like a whole thing but i said something on the commentary about one of the cast members screwing everybody in all the girls in north carolina and i didn't know he was engaged at the time well that's on him no and the girl heard it and broke off their wedding they know better for the best better for her Better for him, I guess. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't seem like someone that wanted to be married. I believe on the commentary I may have said, I could be totally wrong about this, but I remember saying something about.

You don't watch your own commentary. I said, that's what I do watch. It's my commentaries. No, I believe that I said, like, that kid was paid to get laid. And, and I, and Mandy and Shane were sitting across the desk from me going like, No, don't, don't, don't, don't. It's too real. Well, they were like, don't let this out because of his girlfriend.

Sure. And I couldn't know what the fuck they were talking about. Sure. You know who is my? Do you remember Danny from the real world? Yeah. Like, because he had Paul. It was New Orleans and Paul the fuzzy face.

Yeah, they would blur out his face. They blew out his face. He was like that. It was right after their season aired that we shot that. And they lived across the street from me in Wilmington? No. Yeah, but Wrightsville Beach. I was in Wrightville Beach where my place was.

and I'd see him out on the street like washing his car and I felt like I had to look away because he was such a big star back then the real world kids were like huge huge back then and when I saw Paul for the first time

I was like I looked away because I felt like I'm not supposed to know what he looks like you're supposed to be a blur sir and I looked like I ended up becoming friends with them and it was wild and now a vital break from our sponsor

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and murder. Freemason files. Karen, you just birthed a conspiracy and I'm here for it. Yay. Listen to Snafoo on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to say on the note of the commentary,

it's like, I just want you to receive this. And I think you will believe me. And I think I've told you, it's like, that commentary, it just, I would just rewatch it over and over again because I was like, oh my God, it's like such a sad movie, but they're being so funny on it, especially Adam Shankman. And it was like the first time, now that we're on a podcast, it's like, it was the first time that I had like heard like a gay man's voice just like lead this conversation in such a fun, funny direction. The way you were cracking jokes, I was like, I want to be friends with this. This guy seems so great.

head and a wig. I was like, and this is, it's, representation is, I guess, the best word for it, but I was just like, it was a very important early moment for me to be like, wow, you can direct a movie like this as a gay man. You can like have this rapport where you're like nurturing this talent and really bonding with them and you're on their, you're at their level.

You're just cracking wise. And I was like, this seems great. I was like, I consider you and have always considered you. an incredible role model in that way. Wow, I'm, I watched, I don't, you have no idea, Adam, I like, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, why is this, why is this episode sad? It's not sad, I don't know, I'm, okay.

It's happy. I don't know, I'm, okay. It's happy. It is happy, and it's kind. What to remember is sad, fuck you for that. Fuck you for that. No, it's hopeful, it's only hopeful. Always remember. I can't see you. Thank you.

I'm so happy I forced us to be friends over DMs. You didn't force us to be friends. It was wish to film in for me. I was like, oh my God, this man that I've always loved. Like, it's,

it's so cool. Well, this is, you're doing this now for other kids. You know that, so which you know. What you're describing is like a parissocial.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. I think that that is, I was thinking about the DVD commentary of it all and how much I enjoyed it as well. in every movie clearly not as much though

Matt so I'm gonna only pay attention to Bowen. Wasn't that into it? But really I was like really what they were was podcasts. No they really were. You were listening to a podcast about the movie.

Exactly. And like that's what those were. And you know, I never did hear the Fire Island oh no yes I did. I did watch the Fire Island DVD commentary. But I guess that's the only movie I've ever been in that had that and I was like oh what a nice thing that I hope people don't stop doing

because it was also... We just shot one for stop that train. Oh, you did? Yeah, we just did. Me and Christina and Connor. Oh, great. Oh, that's great. I'm listening. It was, it was rough to keep on Target, you know, and keep talking about the movie. But it's just fun to hear, it's fun to hear

I like BTS. I like hearing, oh, that was a fun thing that happened this day, et cetera. Like, I don't know, like I just, I'm into that. Like, it's funny. The Hammercat sketch? No. Oh my God, that's so funny. I was just thinking it.

I didn't think you could possibly remember it. Matt wrote a sketch when we were in college. It wasn't me. I was Sudi. I was like, Suddy. I wrote a sketch when we were in college. It was, um, doubt.

The DVD commentary of doubt. And then one of them, it was, you know, whatever. It was literally, it was Philip Seymour Hoffman, Merrill Streep, and then the woman from craft services. She was like, she was trying my process.

And then Suddy comes in and chimes in with her voice. And on that day, there was a Cobb salad for one. That's. It was really tough because this was a hot day on said This was an outdoor shoot Nest to the day I did cop salad And that ended up being It was a short lunch

It's really funny This is the DVD commentary of doubt Now like I missed it You shouldn't have that anymore But what were you gonna say? I think I forget I was just I was just saying like I just oh

I was watching I just like BTS of movies And I like movie history, et cetera. And I was watching Epic Ride, which is on Peacock. And it's a three-episode docu-series, like a little tiny thing about like the making of Epic Universe. But when you zoom out, it's also about like Universal Studios. Actually, Carl Lemley in the beginning of the Universal Studios production company and how he bought Universal City. And it literally, the tram tour actually started as.

People could just gather around and watch silent films get shot. And they could make noise and they could yell and they could, you know, laugh and hoot and hoot and holler because it was a silent film. And they would stand around and just watch it. And that became the tram tour, which gave birth to Universal Studios as we know it. And I was just like really fascinated by that history. And so I just like to hear BTS about anything that I love. And just so I am motivated now to go watch the DVD commentary because,

I haven't seen that movie in a long time. I am curious how hard I could cry now today. I wonder if I could match myself at 11. I can't figure out how you guys can even stand. Given the fact that you have the schedules that you have, not just with the podcast, with everything else, with the awards that you just did with and with the press obligations that you have, with working your other jobs with acting like that.

And then being such loyal good friends to your friends, spending talking with all the friends, and trying to consume culture, which I don't understand how you make time to see all these things. I don't have that. I don't have that capacity. And it's extraordinary.

And I brought this up to you on set. I was like, how do you do it all? I don't get it. The thing that suffers most for me is consuming more culture. It's the thing that, and I'm unqualified to host this podcast, where I'm like, I've always said that. Here's the thing, though, like,

Everything we do is fun. Like, we have fun doing all the things that we do. She's fun. And she fun. Storma gonzah. So amazing. I love that line gets used in the trails a lot. Which one?

There's a glamazonean express heading into a massive storm. That's one of the great trailers in recent memory. Do you remember what I said? You're going to love it. I was like, I was like, if you, y'all, best be playing this as a drama. Period. Oh no. I never being like

because you don't know. Like I was like, am I doing this completely straight? He goes, oh, dead ass. I was like, yeah, God, 100%. It's just, all you do is go click up to soap opera. That's it. Well, because everything is so absurd.

In particular, there's one joke where we're in the press room. Just bleep this. Yeah. It's just, I'll just tell you. It's like, I, I, I, Maybe I won't tell you actually. Don't tell me.

But that, like, it's a great thing in the press room. Like, it's so insane. Well, especially what happened with, like, that was like the dumbest thing. That I was like, how is that? No, that's what I'm saying. It was so dumb. Like, dumb thing upon, dumb thing upon dumb thing. Adam did cut me.

Yeah, sword's allowing. He cut me swallowing a sword. Uh-huh. And I think it's because I couldn't say swallow a sword. It's tough. And then I took out a sword and I swallowed it. And it wasn't in the cut. No, it's, maybe that'll be in the bonus feature.

Sure. No, I wanted to end on Rue being uncomfortable. Trust me, you did the right thing. The movie didn't need me swallowing a sword. It did. Now people want to... Other movies do, though. Yeah, I'm available. I've proved I can do it.

Yeah, our next thing. Just ask Adam for the B-roll. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. That's happening. I am... This is thrilling that this is all coming together. It has a blooper reel.

This is heavy. We are always saying bring back the blooper reel. Always. There was no way I was not doing a blooper reel. The second I saw the first cut, I was like, let's start putting the blooper reel. And Rue and Rue and I made the blooper reel. I was so happy about it. I was very, very thrilled about that.

See, and that is, I guess, the message I would impart on everyone. Like, it's the movie, it's like the movies you remember. Yes. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like, it's just fun. And it's so, it's for you if you're watching it at home. And it's coming at such a fun time. I'm also so happy that it comes out right before the Cultural Awards airs because we were so excited to welcome so many of the cast of Stop That Train on the Culture Awards.

I mean, who was there. Rachel Bloom, who by the way is the lead of the film Stop That Train. Kind of. Simone. Simone. Roo. Roo. You.

Mehee. Of course, Monet. Monet. The list goes on. I don't know. It was, there was, there was, there was, there was, there was, there was, there was, there was, there was, it was, there was, there was, it was, there was, there was, it was, yeah. There was so many. Underfoot.

Everywhere you looked, there was a stop that trip. Lisa Rina. Lisa Rina. Yes. That was the one I was missing. Yes. Very much Lisa Rina.

She has one of the stupidest lines in the movie that she delivers so blankly that it's absolutely insane. It's totally insane. She can do it all. She's a soap legend. She's Rina. She's just Rina. She's just Rina, babe. And boy, did she work that fucking cold?

Culture Award shit point a shit wait till you see oh my god what let's manifest and put something on to the ether what because I feel like your breath is so wonderful and expansive as the director what but what what do you still want to do I want to do I want to I want to bring back the Ashley Judd movie like the double jeopardy like a double jeopardy kind of thing yeah all that yeah I want I that that is a genre that I miss it's the woman in peril who wins you know yeah yeah yeah yeah And I love that. J-Lo was doing a lot of that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you did, you also directed one of my favorite J-Lo's. Wedding Planner. My first movie, that's so crazy. That is something I can't, I, it's shocking to me. Can I ask you a question in song? Please. How can I plan on forever when I never planned on you?

I have a lot of funny stories with that. You're very warm. The stories about that movie. I couldn't believe. That song. It's like a scene where J-Lo has been dejected and tossed away. How could I plan on forever? He's the wedding planner.

When I never planned on you. Can you tell a J-Lis story? Can I tell a J-Lah story? We've met her. Yes, yes. She's been on the podcast. She was fabulous. She was one of the few I've directed that didn't mention me on your podcast.

Shade. No, I love Jennifer. She, I will tell you this. she was rapidly on the rise. Yes. When we made that movie. And do you remember who she was dating at the time? Ben Affleck.

No. Diddy. Correct. Oh, yes. Correct. Now, at the time, also, that was crazy because Bridget Everett was dating before she married Pete Sampras. Jennifer was with Diddy. You said Bridget Everett?

Bridget Everett. Oh, Bridget Wilson. Sorry, Bridgett. Oh, sorry. Bridget Everett. Bridget Everett. And Bridget Everett. I was hot.

That's real culture number 30. Bridget Everton and Pete Sampras. Hot item. That is a hot. Bridget Everett just texted me, baby. So that's why I was thinking of her. So Bridgett Wilson married, was pre-marrying Pete Sampras. Matthew McConaughey was loosely linked to Sandra Bullock.

Uh-huh. And Jennifer was with Diddy. Right. and all of them were visiting on my first movie Sandy Diddy and Pete Sanders What a treat. Honestly though at the time

That's where all the money in Hollywood was Across it was sports, music and movies bitch It was and I was like just trying to get my first movie made To say nothing of J-Lo Jennifer who Jennifer and I at that time were very very locked in together We were very close We were brother sister down

During the making of that movie. And like I remember when we were, this was actually really funny. We went to, we went to, we were, that place, Folloli in,

up by San Francisco where they did the spa retreat, those scenes where they went to the spa retreat. Oh yeah, sure, sure, sure. And we were there, it's like an hour outside of San Francisco. And we were there, and it was the day that the, no strings attached,

was coming out, the in sync album. Oh. And we sent a PA into San Francisco to go get the DVD. The CD. Yes. To go get. Wow.

Because you wanted it? We wanted it. We wanted to hear it. We hadn't heard anything off it. And it was getting released. And Jennifer and I were super ganked to hear it. And I have a picture of us sitting on the lawn outside of Filoli. Her hair and makeup people, one is brushing her hair, one is touching up her lips.

I'm laying on her lap and we're listening to the first thing like that and Jennifer turned to me and she goes there are no back street boys anymore and I was like and I was just like damn girl like she knew that that album was about to just wipe that remember how huge that album was major it was massive

yeah it kind of because there had been millennium and that felt like the biggest deal and then in sync just No strings attached was huge. Yeah. And Jen. Digital, digital, get down. Just you and me.

So, but I remember, like, that was also very traumatic, though, because when that movie came out, basically, I think it was number one for three weeks. Huge. But the reviews, somebody texted me and said, Mark Schaman actually texted me and he said, how does it feel to be the most hated man in America? Oh, God. They literally, like, called me the Jeffrey Dahmer of the DGA. It was like, they were like, it was like the headlines were so mean. And to my knowledge, anything she was attached to people, people.

People at that time needed to have a strong reaction to it. Yeah, I was warned that people, you know, rom-coms generally, unless they are like Julia Roberts movie, got unfavorable reviews. They still do. And so... Well, good news. You killed them. So thanks,

thanks everyone out there. You killed them. It was... Yeah, right. I feel... Yeah. And that was... That was wild.

Yeah. But, yeah, I got a lot of... Oh, I'll tell you another good, Jennifer's story. So we were outside doing the horseback riding thing where she's on the runaway horse. Do you remember Thursday?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She gets up on a runaway horse. This is after she was almost hit by the... By the trash can. And she goes, you save my shoe. You save my shoe. Yeah.

The two of them together was, that was comedy. The two of them together was the most extraordinary thing. I love Matthew McConaughey. I do too. I love that man. There's nothing but goodness in his that part. That is just kindness and goodness that runs through that man's fans. Anyway, so Jennifer, the day we were supposed to be out there,

Sony shut us down for a day so that Jennifer could go to the Grammys. And at that Grammys, she wore the dress. She wore the dress. Huge. And I saw the big, but Sony, who is making the wedding planner, shut us down. They paid for us to shut down for the day so she could go to the Grammys. Wow. And then she came the next day and walked it.

And I walked in and I was like, and she just looked at me and I just was shaking my and she's like, mama fucked it up. Right. And I was like, yes, girl. And Google image was born. And Google image was born. But on that day then, it is. ended up being Jennifer famously, obviously wears a lot of lip gloss. I mean, she always has that beautiful shine on her lip, that glass lip.

And on this beautiful day, the temperature dropped to like zero. And we were doing the part where they were like, and we were in that Disney back lot, like, Ranch, a Disney Ranch. And Matthew's walking her down the house and her claws froze. Her lips froze. And while we were talking, I noticed that she was suddenly having troubles. She was like, at any event. And I was like, this is the greatest thing that I've ever seen in the entire life.

You know, but it was, God love. We had so much fun making that movie, though, the two of us. Like, I really cherish that time. It's so fun to watch. It's so fun to watch. I love that movie. That is a silly, silly movie. Like her apartment would be.

like four and a half million dollars back then and her hair is absurd it's like it's so done i made that movie to be like an old 1940s movie yeah that's what i wanted it to be everything's a little too big everything's a little too pretty of course the flower budget on that thing was practically the whole budget like it was crazy but you but you picked the important stuff it's it it has to be like aesthetically something like that thing i mean that's what she does i honestly love you i love this song what do you I think it's perfect. First scene we shot. Wow.

Fabulous. That was that car. That was that was the top day. Day one. Yeah, no, day one was there, the opening moments were stressful, but for another time. But plenty of stories there. But, yeah, I can't remember what I did earlier today, but I can literally remember everything about making. It's always the case, though.

It's always how it is. Do you have that about Wicked, where, like, you just can, you, you. I, yes, absolutely. Well, but Wicked was, it's, I think, there's, there's, like, different moments of it where I'm like, yes, I remember this vividly. And then there are other moments of it where I'm like, I was on a plane. Like, like, I was, that was a really tough time. You, I, I, I was going through it with you on the podcast.

I, I felt everything. I think I even texted you a couple times. You did. You were so supportive. I was concerned about you and I was concerned about you when you broke up with the gut like I like I got

I was like this is the weird thing about podcast friendships like I was like it's strange knowing you when I have you with me so much of the time

it's just a flavor of it's a different like it's a new flavor of friendship yeah well you know this is all fake yes this isn't this is this is this is you cut this is all rude

you know this is all fake yeah it's been hugely successful fucking stuff I know, I know. I don't even. You guys figured out, you pulled that wolf so far over his eyes. We're not even gay guys. My wife's name is Terry.

Like I didn't know. Kind of a gay name. I have two kids. I legit want to write a play that is like a director of great renown and success. I basically have to option your life. I want to write the movie. No, it's just I like the play of it. Just one one one one set on stage of just the of what you're described of like watching your movie but like

Trying like not really well I'm gonna like you know Because I've had so many varied I've worn a lot of hats between the dancer choreographer TV personality director all the other shit You know all the stuff that I've done I have garnered a lot of stories and I have been in a lot of rooms and not as the featured player in many of them and so there's been a lot of fly on the walls stuff that I've seen. And then there's done some stuff where I have been sort of the featured player. And it's been fairly extraordinary. And I, you know, sometimes people are you going to write a book? And I'm like, absolutely not. There's no freaking way. Because it would, there's no way

for it to not end up taking down some people. And I would never, I would never, because you can't have a story without conflict. There's no good story that happens without conflict. Well, you have to either be willing to say, I guess for me, I think about that too, like whether or not down the road I would write like some sort of, you know, I've witnessed people being really terrible. And yeah, that's the thing is it's like I would do it if I, but only if it was all was a story I was trying to tell. Yeah. Like if there was something of value to be learned from things and that would, but that would be the only way that I think it will be worth it in in a, in a voyeuristic world like the one that we live in where people just get off on. knowing anything or being privy to information that they shouldn't. There is some shot from it. What would I gain from it?

I just like there's nothing. There's nothing. My, what I, my legacy hopefully is going to be when I'm gone, what my good relationships were with people and the way that I treated people. And hopefully, you know,

And I want to be known as nice, you know? I mean, again, it sounds soft. You wouldn't necessarily be known as not nice if you told your story and the characters in it are ones that we know. It would just be you being, I guess, picky and choosy about like what you share. There's such a thing called a fake name, sir. This is the thing, because people like grill us all the time now ever since Tina Fey was like, authenticity is interesting, expensive. Like, you guys aren't awesome. as authentic anymore, are you?

It's like, it's not about us being authentic or inauthentic to ourselves. It's that we know that if we say it out loud on a microphone, it will be interpreted and likely misinterpreted by people. It will be like, there will be a game of telephone that happens where, I don't know, it's like the context doesn't really matter anymore.

People just want like, backs or tea or something along the lines of like but like which is fine totally valid but to equate that with like being inauthentic is always confusing to me it's like well it's i don't know it's like when an act of kindness is interpreted as manipulation you know what i mean like you know like ah but would you have really done like is that self-serving in some way and i was like well i mean i guess i get the hit of like i did a nice thing but i didn't do it for that hit right right And, and. That's what I mean, though.

If you ever had the desire to tell your story, you should tell it because you have so many, you have a story to tell. Of course, you have stories to tell and to share, but you also have a story to tell. And you are such an amazing storyteller. But who knows, maybe one day you will want to do your little fablements. You know what I mean? Like, who knows? Well, there's things like, well, like, for example, somebody got ahead of me and my sister,

and they made the movie of my childhood, which was sex education. Really? I had a sex therapist mother and an attorney dad, but we, and grew up here. And my sister and I always were like, we've got to put together.

Because my sister gave me my first job. My first directing job. My sister produced wedding planner. Wow. She couldn't actually, she couldn't actually, I'm such a nepo baby. No, she, no, she,

I was about to direct my first, my short film, which I made. And she sent me the script and I read it and I was like, oh, well, you're my thoughts on. She said, would you ever meet with the studio? I met with the studio. They hired me. And that's how that went.

But they didn't hire me because of that. Anyway. That's cool. Yeah. And she and I had a deal at Disney for over a decade. And I love her. She's great. You guys would love her.

And you're good storyteller. This is what Matt's saying. Like you should feel compelled to tell your story and not have the story. And there's like dark days that I would make very funny about, you know, during like the shit that I got into during my heavy using and all of that was like it's, it's dark. As it usually is. Yeah. If it hadn't gotten dark, I'd still be doing it. Pride is like love.

You feel it in your heart. IR. Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must have party bangers. Plus personalized and curated. Like back in the day pride. Come together, celebrate. Take pride with you anytime, anywhere.

Just ask your smart speaker to play IHeart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. You can't order it, you can't borrow it or simply hope it into life. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. Together, guys, we'll have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Entertainment legends, sports icons, wellness experts, and everyday people will share how they find, allow, and experience joy.

And I'll offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced and harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, Tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Joy after a breakup. Joy as an empty nester. Joy after a loss. Joy as a caretaker. This new podcast will speak to you.

Listen to Joy 101 on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Things are getting eerie this week on Snafu with Ed Helms. My Favorite Murder Hosts, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hard Stark. Join me for the Unsolved Kidnapping. of William Morgan. It's a great true crime story filled with secret society intrigue and murder.

Freemason files. Karen, you just birthed a conspiracy and I'm here for it. Yay. Listen to Snapoo on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can hear it, true, but now see it. Crime stories now available

with video episodes free in the IHeart app. Watch all your favorite podcast. Full episodes, start to finish, gavel to gavel, soup to nuts, all in the free IHeart app. You can also watch all your other favorite podcasts like, Hey Jonas, Las Culturistas, Post Run High, and so many more. Hear the voices you know. Now see them and see the moments you've missed. Open the IHeart Radio app, search video podcasts and crime stories, and then just tap all. Watch. I'll see you on video, friend. Well, we veered into I don't think so Honey territory, so why don't we just do that segment.

This is our 60 second segment where we pop off actually. We've never, we haven't really really said it. And I don't think Sony is just popping off. That's really all it is. If you get down to it, and I have one. Okay. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so when his time starts now. I don't think so honey, Steven Spielberg. Oh. You think you're going to own June 12th, Bitch, we're gonna see you there. Disclosure Day, more like stop that train day. Yeah!

Steven Spielberg is doing a movie about aliens. Yeah, I saw that back in the 70s. You know what? I haven't seen drag queens on a train. I haven't seen a drag queen president. I haven't seen RuPaul as President Judy Gagwell. Well, I may have seen it because I was in the Oval Office with her, the fake one, which guess what?

Is in as much despair in this film as any room is in Disclosure Day? Oh, what? The aliens are going to come get us? Well, guess what? Guess who's going to come get us and stop that train? Hmm, I kind of forget the plot, actually. Oh, a storm agonza. Stormerganza, step to me, aliens.

You could never handle a storm agonza. This is really good stuff. Hey, Mr. Spielberg, Mr. Director, take a seat and take a hike. And that's one minute. Dude, this is harder that I thought just because in real time, one minute is long. Like, it is so long. You always have like 20 seconds of gas

and then you're like, okay. Just just paste it out, you know? You'll do great. You'll do great. But you know, you posted this. They're calling it. They're calling the Barb andheimer of it. STD.

Stop that disclosure. I love. STD day. STD day. Yeah. I think you guys will be just fine. I think we're going to do great. It would be nice.

I know we're going to do okay. I think, or I don't know anything, but Well, do they ever tell you like, okay, here's the pre-sales or whatever. It's an independent, so I don't know. It's like when there's the studio machine behind it, I really know what's going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tracking. Yeah, all of that. But I've also, like, I've just, I've just given over to the gods on this one because we're also existing in a time where there is so much homophobia. Like, I don't know who's going to rise up. I mean, there's the heated rivalry of it all.

And there's the- It's going to do amazing. It's going to do amazing. It would be great. If people will allow themselves to go and drag their straight friends, because, by the way, straight people are laughing harder than the gay people. That's the theater. It's just funny. Because it's funny. It doesn't punch at anyone particularly. And then, um, except for one person. Um, okay, are you ready to do your own thing so, honey? I do. And I think this will cause a huge debate. Okay. This is Bowen Yang's. I don't think so honey. I don't think so honey. Apparently, you're not supposed to talk to people when they have wet hair. I was talking to a friend and he was like, well, I saw this woman, but she was a, in the elevator, but her hair was wet, so I couldn't talk to her.

I was like, is this a rule that like, especially with longer haired people, if their hair is wet, the etiquette is you don't engage in conversation with them. I'm losing my mind at the notion that there's an unspoken rule that I now have the bravery to say out loud that you're not supposed to talk to someone when their hairs. I think if our hairs were wet, we'd be like, oh, sure, Adam's hair is wet. Matt's hair was wet. Bones hair is wet. But let's say, like, if Anna's hair was wet, we're not supposed to, like, ask her why it's wet.

It's like, well, clearly she came out of the shower, but it's like, but apparently it's, like, disrespectful to engage in conversation with someone if the hair is wet and slicked back. I don't, don't try to invent these new rules. Etiquette is for squares. I don't want to talk about this. And that's one minute. You are so brave. Who told you this?

Why did they say it? And what was this? My friend. the great my friend named Jesse over dinner he was just like yeah it was just

this woman was this woman in film festival I'd seen like the night before and then we were staying at the same hotel and then the elevator the elevator doors opened up and her hair was wet so I didn't want to say hi well maybe

I don't think it's a thing where like it's like oh you can't talk to a woman with wet hair I think he just felt I don't want to I know because I think Did the wetness of her hair create a thing that felt inappropriately intimate? Have the women up in the room ever heard of this?

Never. Never heard of this once. I think we're about to, the people will come out from the shadows after the, don't talk to me when my hair is wet. You know what the problem is, he just let the genie out of the bottle. Yeah, I know.

It's like, now the toothpaste is not out. I don't want to be spoken to when my hair is wet. Well, apparently it's like, I'm telling you. Let us know in the comments down below. I'm telling you, it's a thing. saying apparently like, oh, if someone has their hair wet, it's like, you can't engage. You can't ask them. Pools and beaches are going to be a nightmare this summer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, with no one talking to any of the women. Thank God we don't hang out with any anyway. Okay, Adam, do you have one? I do. Hold on. Let me just see. Because I've done a couple. Okay.

I'll just meld. I'm going to free ball it. I'm gonna sort of free ball. Go, Commando, free ball. This is Commando a little bit. Okay, this is Adam Schenckman's. I don't think so, honey, as time starts now. I don't think so, honey, people who give me side eye or puff out their chest when they see me living my life at the gym, dancing around.

I am listening to Doja Cat. Yes. I am listening to Dogey. I am listening to New Madonna. I am like, I am having the time of my life. Yes, I was once a dancer who danced for like, like, Possible. Paul Abdul and Janet Jackson. And I lived my life back then.

And that was the happiest I've ever been. I had no responsibilities. And it is a signifier of how happy I am. So if I'm in the gym and I have them bitches in my ear giving me life and I am popping. Do not give me like the, ew. Or like, what's that gay doing or thing like that? First of all, I don't really dance gay. I don't even know what dancing gay is.

Well, I kind of know what dancing gay is. but I'm in there, I'm in there living. And you know what? Maybe I am choreographing some new piece of entertainment that you're about to consume. Oh, please. So I don't think so, honey, you giving me side eye at the gym while I live my life. 100%. By the way, nothing I've ever done is side eye.

I am always an appreciator. There is a lot of peacocking and preening. And there is a lot of a very specific kind of influencer like body pride. Right. And there is, and it does feel replete with judgment. Horrible. Like, it's so first thought, of course. Like, I want this male peacocking body fascism at, like, the grove.

I want it where you least expect it. By the way, what about those guys who are, like, straight, but they're, like, into yoga, and they're doing handstands and walking across the floor on their hands. And I give them their flowers. Like, you do you, you, baby. Like, I'm like, I, like, I'm just standing right by. little Smith machine. Yeah, I'm just bopping away.

I'm just like, you know. You're not taking up a lot of space. No. It's just if you are, you are contained. I'm not doing like across the floor. You're not a storm of gonza. You know, I am not a storm a gonza. You can use your body in whatever way you wish as long as it's like, like within reason.

On me. Oh, God, this got so hot. It was sad. Then it was hot. This is the best podcast ever. In a sad, hot episode. Yeah. Well, honestly, I hope to see your creations on Drag Race.

Will you go back and do more? I feel like you just... I don't know. I told them that I wanted... Speaking of a full circle moment, the last thing I did was Star Booty, the brusical. And I felt not happy with that one for me. And so I want to... I need a redemption.

You need a redemption. You're going to give you redemption. So we'll see. By the way, just to close the loop on that, they never did make that Star Booty movie. but it was offered to me that weekend and then I found out on Monday never mind because they wanted to be someone

they wanted to it was so they asked me to write it as like an Austin Powers movie and I did and then they were go never mind Rue wants to do like it to be more like black exploitation and then they go but he still would love for you to write it and I was like I don't think I'm the person for this

that would be tricky that would be tricky that's now That was 2019 Isn't that crazy? It's sitting somewhere Someone's working on it maybe I just said geez Louise That's how old I am

I said geez Louise You do? Yeah, every now He's who exactly is Louise Doesn't matter Sing out Louise That's who she is

So it's another Right back to gay pride No it should be Someone named Louise's Christ I think it's Jesus' cousin Louise's Christ Louise's Jesus

Jesus's cousin Jesus. Jesus had a Luigi just like Mario. Louises. Louisus. Oh, let's right. Let's pitch that animated show. I'm in. For that... Jesus. For the Chick-fil-A network or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have some really fun ideas. I think we should... We would rock a Christian cartoon show.

I made... Okay, so how about this? After Walk to Remember, they buried me. I never did one lick of press for Walk to Remember because I was a gay Jew. And they're like, this isn't going to play. And they're like, they're like, they're like, and they're like, and they're like, and they... I didn't do any. That's crazy.

And so they, but when the movie came out and was a success, I got a letter from the head of the Crystal Cathedral. What? And he wrote, like, there was in the letter, it had something to go like, thank you being for the new voice of Christianity. I was like, girl, girl. This was like when I got a scholarship from the Mormon church in suburban Colorado. It was, I was looking around going like,

this is comedy I've never seen anyone more Christian than you and more Mormon than you me yay yay oh look at extension well stop that train is out June 12th I've had time of my life with Adam my first

parissocial bestie wow oh no I'm really really grateful for all that you have given me in terms of like you're just being authentic and doing what you're doing and having these conversations with people

and it's funny now because I can tell when they're going well now and when they're not going as well as you want them to be but it's because I just know you're so the bad. Wait, I'm actually curious and I'm not going to cut it. But we're not going to respond. What's the time you didn't think it went well? And you can be honest. Where I felt like where I felt it's

not that it didn't go well. I'm sorry. It's where you guys felt more tense, less free. Sure. Yeah, go ahead. I'll have to go back and remember. No, no, no. I will have to go back and remember Because how did you think we were with Jennifer? I thought you were fine. We, but we ended up having a great time because we were like, it was like a Sunday.

It was like after an SNL. She is, Jennifer is a big present. Which didn't know what to expect. Turns into super like a girl. I thought we did. I thought we immediately got her liking us on our side and she had, she had an amazing time and she even DM'd me after. Great. And no one ever DMs.

And she was genuine, like, after the, after the mics broke, she was like, that was so much fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's just that, it's just that about with Jennifer, there is so much authenticity, but there's also, there's been so much pain and so much stuff. And she's so, and she's very, and it's important that she protects herself. And she always has. I like listening to you guys talk to Nicole. That was fun. I love that.

John Waters was fun, but it felt like very, there was nothing. It's all good. Like, it's all great. But like, with John, he's just like an older guy. Can't tell you, though. That was the first episode in a lot in years where I was like, well, I was very, very nervous throughout the entire time. I didn't feel that with Nicole Kidman, didn't feel that with like more, like our other like A-lister's.

But John Warr, he's just someone who's so important. There's just like certain people like, by the way, I would have the same fucking thing. Like there, it's not like, like, I think it took me a while to get there today. Like, I was like, no, it's like, I don't know, what am I gonna say, what are we gonna talk about? I'm generally, I thought this is a

fabulous episode. This is a very, I'm generally pretty uncomfortable talking about myself. So it's like, you know, it's like, it's the same thing as like watching, I don't tell anything about my personal life ever. So that's what I was sort of a thing. Yeah.

So, we're really happy that you, shared that story because I think so many more people have a version of it than people know, it's one of those things that it's just not sexy to talk about. It's like being a sex worker. More of us are sex workers than me. Yeah. Or would like to be.

No, but there's, but like, you know, I'd heard you talk about it and I was like, I was like, it's time, it's time. And I don't feel like, I don't feel like I'm going to be, like, have to wear like, I'm a poster boy for like conversion therapy. No. Like that because there was a version for a long time. There was I couldn't figure out how to tell the story without indicting my parents.

And 100%. And that is, it took me a lot of realize that that is just another wave of pain that was caused and wrought by the person sort of creating the harm. Our parents were just collateral damage. Well, interestingly enough, I didn't get over that until I actually had a long sit-down with my mom about it. Recently. It takes that. Yeah.

Recently. Really? It needs that. And where I was like, can you tell me exactly what you were doing during this period? Because I've never gotten into what you actually thought was happening. And your experience. And your experience of it. And she was lied to.

And she was lied to. And she was very unhappy about that. So anyway. Thank you guys. We love you. This has been amazing. Stop That Train. This Friday.

And we end every episode with a song. Oh, yeah. I'll always remember. It was late afternoon It lasted forever And the end it so soon Yeah You were all by yourself

staring out at a dark gray sky I was changed In places no one will find Oh, you're feeling so deep inside Take it Deep inside Was there where I realized That forever was in your eyes

The moment I saw you cry Damn, that's a good song So fucking much You can't see it, but you can feel it You can feel it I remember when they shot the video I went to the video shoot And I was like

What is you? It was for walk to remember, and they had her in that, like, sexy black dress. So gorgeous. And I was like, serving. What is happening? Well, she went to heaven. And then I was like, well, in heaven, she's like, it's like, she's a slut.

She was a beautiful. She was a divagata slut in heaven. Jamie. I was like, okay, we are going to use all this too, by the way. Bye. Lost Culture Reis is the production by Will Ferrell's big money players and Iheart radio podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

Executive produced. by Anna Hosnier and produced by Becker Ramos. Edited by Hot Dog Sandwich. And our music is by Henry Kmeroski. You heard it. Now see it. Las Culturistas is now available with video episodes for free on the IHeart app. Watch full episodes from start to finish all on the free IHeart app. Hear the voices you know. Now see the moments you missed.

Open the IHeart Radio app. Search Las Culturistas and click watch or tap. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Listen to Joy 101 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey everyone, this is Teddy Mellencamp. And Tamara Judge from Two T's in a Pod. There's been one scandal that's consumed our lives these last couple of months. We're recapping the three-part summer house reunion. And as always, we're being brutally honest. We're dissecting timelines, receipts, blind items, and previous episodes. Amanda and Wes, watch out. We're not getting to be easy on you.

Listen to Two T's in a Pod on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. For years, the Unhoused have been presented as a monolith in mainstream media. Weedian House is a podcast that's changing the narrative. I'm Theo Henderson, and I created the show why I was Unhoused on the streets of Los Angeles. We've grown into a two-time Webby Award-winning podcast, the only podcast that shares Un-House stories and news from the Un-House perspective. Listen to Weythian House on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. June is Black Music Month, and on the

Drink Chams podcast, we're speaking with the hottest names in the culture, like Sway Lee. Do you realize how legendary you are? I appreciate that. I'd be seeing it, but I'm like, man, I still got, like, so much more to do. Like, Prince, he dropped like 30 albums. We dropped, like, five right now. That's the rate we got to be

going. Yep, that's a good attitude. No matter the era, Drink Chams brings you the biggest names and the most unfiltered conversations. Listen to Drink Chams from the Black Effect podcast network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.