Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - “Life Is Just So” (w/ Lena Dunham)

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

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This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of IHard Media, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing.

Coming up this seasonal Math and Magic, CEO of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario. People think that creative ideas are like these light bulb moments that happen when you're in the shower. It's really like a stone sculpture. You're constantly just chipping away and refining. Take to Interactive CEO, Strauss Selnick, and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Listen to Math and Magic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dick & Poll show are geniuses. We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand. Better version of Play Stupid Games, Winstip. BID prizes. Yes. Which, by the way,

wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. But hey, no one's perfect. We're pretty close, though. Listen to the Nick,

Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Look, man. Where? Oh, I see. Wow.

Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Oh, goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding, Dong.

Las Coutteristas calling. This, I just want to say before we sort of launch into whatever this is going to be, what's making me really happy is that we're watching our guest consume her first ever Celsius on ice and a glass, and it's a color. It's a color that serendipitously matches her outfit and shoes. And speaking of the word serendipitous, I, I've had this vocal stem for at least 12 years. I'm sorry I don't want to go to serendipity and drink frozen hot chocolates with your uncle's girlfriend who is a stewardess named Elidae.

That is right there in one line, a masterclass in dialogue. You build and build and build and build. Oh, I've never forgotten that line of dialogue. Among other, among the legion of other sequences of words on that show called girls. But can I tell you another shorter one? Yes, of course, please. And sometimes the brevity, like, will be what hits? What do I want to be like you?

Like mentally ill? Shosh, you're cruel drunk. It's crazy. And we really had to work with Allison to try to go back into the file cabinets of her brain when she was on. Yes, yes. Was that improvised line? It's crazy. It's crazy.

But then you read this wonderful book, Famsick. And you get a glimpse into the creative process. Honestly, here's the thing, everyone out there, you need this book. You actually need to read it. It's required reading. Not that there's going to be a test, but like consider yourself unprepared for the rest of sort of your life going forward if you don't go out and get it. It's not even, there's no test involved. It's just a book where, and I haven't had this in a while, it's one of those, it's a nodder.

You're nodding every page. You go. I recognize this. Yeah. You knowingly nod at a book like this, which I, which felt really refreshing. I mean, just to say, this is obviously a huge moment in the podcast. I mean, it's the creator of our favorite show, the creator of our favorite words. I mean, become a pal. Somehow. In a true love at first sight moment became a pal. We found love in an apple place. That's all we'll say. That's all we're going to say. That's all we're going to say. That's all we're gonna say.

I have one photo. You know how sometimes on your iPhone, like one photo? There's that thing of like this day last year or sometimes it's not even a year ago. It's just like your phone just decides pictures that it's going to keep showing you. Terrible. Our guest factors in to that for me because it's just I'll just randomly be flipping through and it's like, oh, there's a picture of me and Beau. Oh, there's a picture of me and Greta. And then there's Lena Dunham and Tim Cook.

just the two of them. A gorgeous couple. My nipples erect. And we have to unpack this on the anniversary of Apple's 50th birthday. On Apple's 50th birthday. No, today, did they know? Okay, we'll get into this.

Everyone please welcome. Lena Dono. Today is the 50th anniversary of Apple Computer. Is it really? And we're here together? We're here together. Okay, so I don't know how much I can say

before a drone strike happens right here. But firstly, I just want to say it's an honor to be with you. Are you kidding? I'm a huge fan, a huge consumer of your content. I love what you do. And when we had our love at first sight moment, used to think about the podcast and I never do this.

And I was like, which I'd love to be on. Yeah, no. And that was, see, that's the kind of thing where it's like, we earmarked immediately because I'm like, oh, okay, that's something that can happen. Yeah. I was begging for it. I was circling the building.

But we spent two full and, complete days together at the Apple iPhone launch. Yes. Which I kept saying, we're here to understand the future. I didn't know what else to say or how to say it. Was that just what you were saying as aligned to the people that worked there? Like, yeah, I'm here to understand the future. Well, I was saying to the people who worked there and then I started to believe it.

And then I started to say it to people I care about like you. But I was like, I don't want to be left behind. I was like, when the future comes, I want to be there. When they're having us use the tools, I want to be the one running the tools. And everyone was like, okay, babe, come down. Like, you're going to get a free iPhone. You can breathe. It's got a new lens, yeah.

I saw you two walk in. There was a series of sort of public art arches, colorful arches. And I was standing there awkwardly, my heels digging into the sod. And I saw you too. And I screamed a scream that was like pure pleasure. It was like if you were a wolf separated from your child in a Disney movie. And then you encountered them in the forest after. after a full story arc.

Yeah, 100%. That's how it felt? I will say I was like, I said to Bo and I was like, how gagged would you be? If just to go back to like 2013 and be like, one day we're going to see Lena Dunhaman event and be like,

thank God you're here. Like, oh my God. And I couldn't believe, I was just sitting here in such pleasure because you're better at being Allison and me than Allison and me. No, my God. But I will tell you,

I don't remember much, but I do know that I don't want to drink frozen hot chocolate at serendipity with your uncle's girlfriend who's a stewardess named Elodie. Yeah, no. Was an improv. Yeah.

Are you serious? Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle. Lena. Sometimes. I remember it was we were really jacked up. It was the middle of the night. We weren't drinking Celsius, but something equivalent.

And it just happened. I'm going to butcher this because in that same line of, in that same block of script, you also say, and mind you, you're coked up, your character's, your hand is coked up.

and you looked me with your eyes and you lied to me with your eyes when you said by not saying anything at all like it's just that's of course that's all improvised and I'm like but that's just that's just your brain well that's so sweet we also snorted a lot

of lactose powder yeah I was wondering and you can't know what that does like Andrew and I recently talked about we were like we snorted milk tons of milk off a toilet that day and what came later Just had to be a sinus infection

Had to we I know we didn't feel good We were also did We were dancing in a club at We arrived at five in the morning So by the time we were sweaty Coked up and dancing It was 7.30 a.m. Yeah So like this nightlife scene

Was actually us Jacked up on lactose powder Sure 7.30 a.m. And what happens happens Improving our face little faces What is it that you do on RuPaul's drag race? You dance for your Lipsing for your life.

Lipsing for your life. Sliquere your supper. Yeah, whatever. That also broke open crop mesh, I think, for a new generation. Thank you so much. I remember when the shirt came out. We had an amazing costume designer. Yeah.

Jen, and she brought the shirt out. I was like, we could do a bra with it. We could do it. I was like, we're not doing anything with it. No, this is tits underneath. This is, my tits are my accessory. Yeah. And also, you don't know in your 20s how much they're going to change.

You don't know. Yeah, your tits. Yeah. And I was thinking about the. this recently because I have a pal who lives with me who's in her 20s and they're just up like champagne flutes. And I just looked and I was like, take advantage, take photos. Be topless. When you're doing a TV show and they ask you if you want a bra underneath your mesh, say no. Because someday you're going to be wearing three t-shirts and a sweater just to hold it back,

you know? So on this topic, do you want to unpack the reason why your nipples went erect next to Tim Cook? It was crazy It's okay if it's attraction It was definitely like He's got What do we call it? Swag? He's got Riz

Whatever is going on Whatever you want Whatever that thing is going to be next week But I also think like The panic of You have two minutes With which to

Properly engage With this person I mean I kept saying things Like I love your products I was saying things that I never imagined Would come out of my mouth And then I look down

And like For the first time in 15 years my nipples were standing at attention. And I looked at the photo and it truly looks like one of those pictures you see of like a married couple that has moved

to a vacation destination together. I know I have it on my phone. Yeah, you have on your phone. I'm like, this is a picture that I treasure. Yeah, we look like, and I remember coming up to and being like, I just took the picture with him. My nipples popped out, then popped right back in. Don't know why, don't know how.

Portrait mode. He's got searing eyes. Okay, so this is something I have said. Like you, incredibly blue searing eyes. So about a few months later, I actually was at the same restaurant as him when I was in D.C. Remember this? Melissa came and we sang back up for me on my tour. We're at a restaurant. Thank you, Melissa for your service.

Everyone goes, and Melissa knew that I had met him at that event. So the waiter comes over to our table and goes, I do have to ask you guys if you're finished, if you don't mind. I never do this. It's just that Tim Cook has your table after you. And we go, what? and I was like not sure they were supposed to do that. Anyway, I'm like, yes, we'll go, we'll go, we'll go. And then someone goes, are you going to say hi on the way out?

I was like, no, I am not. And then they go, well, why not? I mean, you've met the guy once. I was like, I am not saying hello to Tim Cook on the way out of here. I was like, I don't want to do it. Going up to him and being like, we met for two minutes in a picture line. Can you fucking? But everyone I was with was like expecting it to happen.

And so they described me running by him. Like he was standing at the bar. I got on the ground and basically. used all my pads of all my feet and hands to like crawl out and they were like what you just did to not say hi to him is the craziest thing we've ever seen what's crazy is if I saw him in the wild I would never recognize him again in my brain he looks like Steve Jobs right well you're like it can't be it can't be but also his face which was so clear to me in that moment like we'd been waiting for each other our whole lives gone disappeared into a puff of smoke no and it's

because we were there together and we didn't totally know I mean everyone was being really nice was but we didn't totally know what our job was no no what are we here for what do you want from us I like clear instructions it felt like the beginning of um the Westing game or like an Agatha Christie I love the Westing game well I love the Westing game too and you kind of just shot something through me that's our project we'll do together is by the way of the Westing game did they ever make a movie of the Westing game you know what I'm sure I looked this up, I think they did, Becca, can you look up if they did the Westing

game, maybe in the late 80s, early 90s for television? Well, there's these books that are like, part of a genre of like mysteries for children, like suspense for children. There was one that I loved. I don't know if you have a book called the Wolves of Willoughby Chase. No, tell it. Did that hit anything? It was like

about a girl. I loved books about like a girl who is an orphan and she moves to a house and something's not quite right. Yeah, and she gets out her little book and pencil. That's exactly right. And I wanted to be that child. And the Westing game, and also, did you like The Giver? Of course.

The Giver. Wasn't Taylor Swift in The Giver? She was in the Giver. She played an important memory in the Giver. She played an important memory. And remember his job is... She plays an important memory in all of our lives. Of course.

I think about the Giver because she's a brunette in the Giver. That's why you think about it. That's why I think about it is because she was a brunette with bangs. Yes. And I loved it. I love every time she acts. An era that doesn't get spoken of. Her giver era.

It's Rule of Culture number 13. No one talks about Taylor's giver era. That was so amazing. It's amazing to Beyonce that you're a fan of because I'm watching this thing I love, but I'm here. Well, just to speak on that, it's funny because everyone did the girls' rewatch moment. And that had to feel like... Which is ongoing, I feel.

Yeah, well, it's definitely, it started, I would have say, like 2022, it started to like really catch fire. Like we're all rewatching this. But I wonder how it feels to know that like at the time, everyone was like, I don't understand how someone can be in it and capture it. But as a time capsule, it may be growing into its purpose even more as a time capsule of that era. That is for me the greatest thing.

Because if we think about it, like I remember Judd Apatel once saying to me, you never really, we think the most important moment of anything's life is when it first comes out. and the internet's responding and people, but actually you don't know the role that anything plays until it's been in the world for a long time. Right. Like we all now recognize that my so-called life is the greatest teen show of all time.

It was canceled after one season. My best friend Matt Wolfe did put together a petition, which was signed by over 10,000 people, to try to get it back on the air. But shockingly, was it ABC? Yeah, ABC. Didn't listen to a 15-year-old head of his gay straight alliance. in San Jose, California.

And that's really the big problem. And that's a big problem with television. Because that's who we need to be serving. Because we would have had more than one season in Freaks and Geeks then, too. Of course. We would have had more than one season of enlightened. But we can't have nice things. Here's the thing. We were just talking. People are

so, so much smarter than they are when they're like, hi, I'm promoting a movie. I'm behind it. It's like, they walk off camera and they're like, I don't know about this. Yeah. And then they, and even if it's hit. Sometimes they don't know about it. Because some things that hit with culture are actually hitting on like the worst parts of us. Right. And some things and we now know that lots of brilliant actors have had to do things that they. So it's just an interesting thing to think like there are things that hit and you go, everyone's talking about it, but what will be happening in five, 10, 15, 20 years.

And when we were making girls, there was so much sort of feedback, probably more, we had more people reviewing it than watched it honestly and I believe this and I agree the discussion was something that was paramount exactly and then it's really nice when something's out of its discussion phase and now people are just maybe getting to like watch it in a cozy context and also they don't have to be reacting to the reaction to the reaction or thinking does this define what it feels like for me to be 24 does this feel like it reflects but actually can just engage with it as what it was that There's some TikTok sound where the girl's like, she's like, I don't know, I'm just being goofy.

And sometimes I feel about the show, I'm like, I'm just being goofy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when there's that much discussion, you're like, and now I think people can maybe go like, they were just being goofy. Yes. And actually that's more meaningful in a way. Oh, good. Because, but I think what we're, what Matt's saying is like you captured it while you were in it.

And I think it's kind of, not even kind of, it's completely remarkable that you were able to maintain that sort of. valence throughout despite the discourse around. Incredible use of valence, you just knock me out. He'll always use valence and things like that. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. But like the fact that you maintained this throughout, and I was even laughing in the book

where you were like talking about the last season, you were writing scenes that made no sense. Like, you know, Shoshana goes to this place. Shoshana goes to a nudist camp. Because ending a show is so hard. And you're like, I'm going to really shock them. And then you're like, this isn't shocking. Shoshana wandered down the road to a nudist camp.

We also have to remember There was a lot of I always knew where I wanted the show to end From the beginning which is I wanted her to have a baby latching But I was like how do we get there? And what does that look like? And there was definitely some Some crawling around in the mud to arrive at I mean I remember just like it was like a maniacal detective I had like 150 You know index cards that I was spread

I have these pictures of me like sitting in a sea of index cards on my floor just being like, what if we don't? I remember one day I was like, okay, I have a crazy idea. We don't have a season finale. We do in episode nine and then we stop. And they were like, but that would then be the season finale? And I was like, okay, it's like my father told me a story about when he did acid for the first time. And he looked at his friend and said, what if we raise our children with no egos?

And they thought that they'd like solved it. And they kind of did. They kind of did. But you can't necessarily maintain that when you're not. on a heavy dose of LSD. Yeah, they would have to just make sure that when the baby came into the world immediately, they gave them the same dose.

Exactly. I went to the sky, see, it's a dome. This is all fake. Do a full Truman show, but I was having a, what if we raise our babies with no egos? What if we just forsake the season finale? Blow everybody's mind. Yeah.

They're just, it's another day, it's over. Yeah. But you can't game the system that way. Well, we all would have arrived at that same exact idea had we even show, like creating, starring, running a show, directing episodes of the show while we were at the tender age of 25, 26, 27. Definitely writing the book made me realize how crazy it is to give jobs to, of any consequence.

And as I, again, another quote from my father always says, there are no art emergencies. Yeah. Because like, you know, people love to act like they're actually, like my aunt is an emergency room doctor. Sometimes she would have to treat someone who's like leg got caught in a subway door. That is an emergency. Season finale actually not an emergency. But it was still a job that involved actual interfacing with many people and engaging.

And I'm, I just look back and I go, that is so, like I see people are that age now and I go, you should still be inside your mother's body. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, you should be a Joey and a Kangaroo. You should be a Joey and a Kangaroo and no one should let you out until you're 32. And so a lot of the book was grappling with that. And what was interesting was I was so judgmental of myself at the time. And looking back, I was like, oh, my God, like, they're definitely remote.

They're definitely low points. But there are definitely some moments where I was like, I should have been nicer to you. You were doing, you were trying so hard and it was going okay. And trying, actually trying things. I mean, there were moments in that show where I was like, I would sit perplex with it. I remember just being a huge fan of the show. and the first season had come and gone and then the second season happened

and there's an episode where your, Hannah is at the cemetery and she sits there and she parrots back a story that someone else had told about their own grief to someone else and the episode ended and I remember being like

at the time I was like I didn't like that episode I can't believe she did that and I didn't like that episode and then now looking back I'm like no I think I saw something true. And I think there's a testament to you putting that out there, even at that age, when you

know discourse is really tough and you're judging yourself, there's a lot of checkpoints to get through when you put on your lead character who's like, you know, close to yourself, doing an ugly thing. And she did a lot of ugly things and all those characters did. I always forget how many ugly things she did. And then someone was like, oh, I just watched the episode, came out to the street. And they were like, I just watched the episode where she goes to her boss's funeral and makes it all about herself.

And I was like, she did that. Are you kidding me? You can't go to somebody's funeral that you don't know well and make it all about yourself. And I remember that being that the scene in the cemetery, first I remember it because I fainted. And then the medic said, I think you're okay because you still have rosiness in your finger, now beds. And I was like, I don't think you are a medical professional. I think this. Well, on a TV set.

On it, I was like, I remember he laid me back and he was like, Rosie Nailbeds check. And I was like, is this? Pels check. I think we need to get some gatorade in this girl's stat. And I, so that is one memory I have. But the other is I remember doing that monologue where she's like, my cousin had cystic fibrosis and I had to say, which was actually a true, that story was a true story about my father's cousin that is real and sad that we then gave to Gabby, that we then gave to me. feeling sick doing the monologue because there were a couple things like there's a scene in the first season where Hannah tries

to seduce her boss who's sexually harassing her to turn the tables and reclaim and also try to like maybe get a bunch of back pay. She's like maybe if we fuck then he'll have to give me a ton of money. And I remember the scene and being like, who wrote this for me? Why am I doing? Why am I

Richard Mazur a kind, talented seasoned character actor I'm about to go in and straddle, aggressive And then I saw him recently because he came and did a part in my movie and he was like I haven't seen you since that's straddling But it was hard sometimes because I was like also I knew that the valence was Is it a valence? I knew that the Curtain between how people perceived her and perceived me was extremely sheer

Yes So I also knew when I made those choices and what I loved thinking about writing book was also how Like Zasha, Jamima, Allison, all have, I mean, you've been Allison. She's the most, she's hilarious and dirty, but she's also correct and polite. She wants, everything needs to know about her. She once got tendonitis from writing too many thank you notes. That reads 100%. You described her as a thank you note and her thank you note writing life.

Her thank you note writing life. And she and Zasha is incredibly smart and thoughtful. And Jemima is her own iconic role. And they were all so down. to clown. Yeah. You'd go up to them and you'd be like, today you're, today you are going to get your ass eaten by your friend's boyfriend.

All right, here we go. Here we go. The one time I remember we gave Allison a monologue where she was supposed to say that she'd lost her virginity at 14. And she was like, what? And I was like, yeah, she lost her virginity when she's 14. And she was like, that doesn't really square with like how I've been thinking about it. Very thoughtfully.

she's like you know I've been playing her in one way and Jemima came up and she's like what would you've been doing if you knew she lost her virginity at 14 Hi I'm Marnie And then she did this like voice of like The alternate Marnie who talked like this Because she lost a virginity at 14 And we were just like

Okay we're not going to be precious about this No we're just going to try it And then she talked about losing Virginia at 14 And fucking crushed it Yeah this is what's going on in my This is my take on what the person coming up to you saying Oh I just saw the episode where about the funeral and this is and with what Matt's saying about like I don't like what I just saw and then realizing in hindsight that's me is like I think the show kind of conveyed this better than anything else in our for our generation where it's like the person you hate the most or the person that annoys you the most is would be you if they grew up and lived in your exact same circumstances 100 I remember my first ever therapist shout out Lisa Spiegel um she a truly important woman

in my life and I remember I was talking about a girl that I was not cool at school and I was like there's this one girl and I just can't stand her and every time she sits near me and she was like do you think maybe you recognize a little bit of yourself in her and it was like I mean I was nine so it was like saying what if we raise our kids with no egos who blew my fucking mind but of course and I've always been interested in I remember like the first time I saw the British office I was oh you're allowed to do this like you're allowed to celebrate characters who are making insane mistakes. And I love when a character does not

who, you know when you meet someone and they're like, I'm a very empathic person and you know whatever comes after is not going to be empathic. Or they say no offense and whatever comes after is going to offend you. How do you know I don't want to hear this then? Yeah, 100%.

Or when my brother last week started saying, can I be real for a second a lot? And I was like, no. I don't like it. What are you the other seconds? Yeah, what was happening before and why is this happening to me now? But I've always been interested in characters who see themselves very differently than the rest of the world sees them.

Yes, yes. And that gap. And it's interesting also because people now know that you're not allowed to say, it's the same way that the daily male stop being allowed to call you fat. So they had to call you voluptuous or Zafdig or whatever other synonym they could come up with for what they used to say, which was like messy fat lady. And now people know that they're not supposed to be angry if women are unlikable. There's a new word that is being used. Oh, what is it? That comes up in notes.

Are they rootable? Rutable. Meaning, can we root for them? Is there any world in which we could want them to succeed? Correct. And I do think that is being likable and being rootable are two different things. But it was also always really interesting when girls was on to realize that people could accept the idea of like Tony Soprano. They could accept the idea of Walter White.

Just like a girl giving like an errant hand job was truly the biggest. societal problem that we had. 100%. And I think that feels very quaint to people now. And also now there's all the like, I have main character syndrome. I'm the main character of my own life. Like there's sort of a celebration

of this kind of like delirious selfishness that before was considered a major character flaw. So I think there's like more room in the world it feels to me. It's funny because women have never had more problems actually. Yeah. But on television, there's space to wild out just a little bit more.

I almost feel like people actually think that they, I think people think they love and support women because they watch television with them in it. And then they convince themselves of something. Yeah. And then the second they turn away, it's like, well, I've already spent my time thinking and supporting. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I think it's so much more prevalent than people think. And it is so interesting.

I mean, they're great theorists who are looking at sort of like the gap between what we accept in media and what we accept. in the world and what we support a media and what we support in the world. But it was interesting because when we were doing girls, it was kind of, you know, it was like, it was Obama era. Everything was going to be okay. Try it. We were on our way up. Everything, like there was a, even though, of course, there was lots of consequence in the world that I didn't have a full complete understanding of because I was like inside a soundstage

and didn't know what time it was. There was, it felt like the world was, we were going to a women's march. We were having being sent pussy hats. Everything was happening. And now there's been a profound backtracking. I don't know if you remember something called Me Too, but I don't think it happened. It didn't reach a lot of corners of the world. But we know that we're supposed to think that women can be naughty on TV.

Right. That's somehow sustained. It survived that whole fucking. And I want that. I want Rachel Weiss to be naughty on TV. Don't get me wrong. Always. That's why I'm alive.

No one does it better. I mean, I was watching her. I mean, direct to camera address from Rachel We don't deserve. We don't deserve. Also, I love how the whole time she's like, I'm old and ugly and no one will look at me. And I was like, you're the single most beautiful woman. You're actually famously iconic for your, like, I'll never forget the first time I saw her in the mummy movies. That's like an arresting image for all time.

Like, she's almost more so if you're not even attracted to women because you go, what am I? Yeah, right. What am I? I know I have questions. And they come from you, Miss Weiss. But that being said, yeah, she's an iconically beautiful woman. But at the same time, any iconically beautiful woman who is over 50 is still dealing with these same things. Right.

But it's so funny to bring up. Except for J-Lo. Except for who? J-Lo, naturally. And now a quick break from our sponsor, Vival. And it is vital. Collagen peptides is a wellness supplement that supports healthy hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. When we hit 30, our body's collagen production starts to drop, and that's when vital protein steps in.

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I'm Cynthia Lois and I'm Josie Dye. And we're done pretending we have it all figured out. Each week we laugh, cry, and talk our way through life's messiest moments. Things you think about but would never say out loud. The questions you are always too shy to ask. Relationships, regrets, awkward moments, and the stuff no one warns you about. It's honest, it's funny, and sometimes it gets a little uncomfortable. But that's kind of the point.

This is Cynthia and Josie's Unmentionables. Listen on the free IHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends...

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed.

I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I said, hi, dad.

And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, I have some cookies and milk. This is this badass coffee. You're right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at mom. Yeah. On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations

about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon, Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to binge, featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this truth, I'm going to die.

Open your free I-Heart radio app. Search the Cito Show. And listen now. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money,

growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoh Spencer, and Venture Capitalist, Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job.

There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fell is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them listen to eating while broke from the black effect podcast network on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast um but i feel like you just had this locus of

chaos happening around you around the time of like this quote unquote reckoning with me too where it's like the show ends um this relationship is on its is on the outs. Like all of these, these things about your body are sort of coming to light for you. Like, that was my takeaway from the book

was just like, oh, how are you writing this within such clear, gorgeous detail while you're talking about how you are in this like long dissociative state and how you've grown up

with like these little flashes of dissociation, like hospital feeling. Yeah, oh, like, something is going on with me and I'm ignoring my basic needs while I'm making the show in the name of ambition and all these things and I have to prove

something right about the way the world sees me and sees the show now that like the dust is settled like I hope you're so proud of everything that is a beautiful thing to say and thank you and I think the thing that was really lovely about writing the book was I had a really long time to do it I mean I wrote my first book in eight months I wrote this book in eight years which we also loved thank you love not that kind of girl thank you so much and and and and And I don't only want, I didn't want to do it for the sake. You know, there's, I've been asked to do like, do a girls rewatch podcast, get together with the girls.

And I mean, people love nostalgia and I love nostalgia. And like, do I want to watch the whole cast of OC? Respond to episodes of the OC. Yes, I do. Tate Donovan, come back. Tate Donovan, I want to watch Tate Donovan watch anything. But I'm interested in like forward motion and forward progression. And so I haven't, maybe there will be a time when I go, I'd like to live watch every episode

of girls, but I haven't gotten. there yet. But I only wanted to write the book if I felt like I had something to say about the larger machine in which women are working in which people are working about like the larger. I do think that Hollywood is a microcosm and it reflects the way the industry works, the way that we see people reflects things that exist in a lot of parts of the world because it's like where the center, it's our, it's interesting because Hollywood is this very kind of comparatively small industry where where we have chosen to center our attention. It's a distraction. It's a it's a indulgence but it also has something bigger to say about the way that we live. And so I only wanted

to write the book if I felt like I had something to say about all of that and about while also being hopefully thoughtful about the fact that like a tiny thousand tiny violins play for the girl who's like my TV show was too hard. But um, but so thank you for saying that. And it was interesting to realize how much I did do. I had always had, I talked about in the book, I'd always had dissociative episodes throughout childhood. The more that my life picked up and the more stress was involved, the more they happened. But I think at the time, I thought ignoring your basic needs was correct. I thought like if you're really good at being a person, you can suppress and override everything that you need in order to be comfortable for the, and

you know, we've all been sent a million signals about what ambition, what's important, what ambition means, what, you know, who we have to be in this sort of, in, I'm about to say, under capitalism, send me to jail. But, and so I. To capitalist jail. Yeah, send me to capitalist jail. Private prison. Send me to a private prison where they'll treat me the way I've always treated myself. But I want to tell you that something is happening inside. me. Not a bad way, good way. But I just kind of like,

my nipples aren't erect, but I did stand at attention. You felt the frisson. Yeah. Is there a moment when you're drinking your Celsius or you go, it's on? Yeah. Of course. You're starting to buzz? Yeah. It's a little bit like when you try drugs for the friends for your first time and you go, is it working on you? Is it working on you?

It's working. It's working. And also because I'm sober and now, thanks to you, this one. Vap free. Oh, is this where we, is this where we entree into this discussion. I was just going to say one more, before we do that, I just want to say the one thing

about girls, that, so much of it terrified me at the time, because I was like, I think I'm feeling uncomfortable because it's me. A lot of it was Marnie. I know.

Are you a Marnie? Yeah. What are you? I think I'm, I'm probably a Shosh. I was going to say that. Yeah. And, you know, I've been public about the fact

that I'm a Shosh. You're a Shosh. I think you told us this. Yeah. I'm a Shosh. You're a Shosh. I've grown into a shosh. Yeah.

It's kind of like, not to invoke, but it's like with the Hogwarts houses, my whole thing was like, listen, I was born a Gryffindor. Yep. In my 20s, I was a Slytherin. Right now, I'm a Hufflepuff. I will die a Ravenclaw. You know what I mean? Like, it's like that's sort of what it is. It feels like it's like that with the girls' girls as well.

Well, like in high school, I was a Charlotte. Yeah. Then I turned into a Samantha. Yes. Had a moment thinking I was a Carrie. And I will be a Miranda for the rest of my life. Oh, 100%.

But I guess... And even maybe up to the part where she gets together with Che, you know? Yeah. Oh, I think we can't, we can't rule it out. My husband is maybe a Che. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. He doesn't want to hear that.

Right. Who does? He's fingering you in the kitchen. I, it could happen. I'm sorry, I don't need to talk about your marriage. I'm sorry. When you said it, I was almost like, I was almost like, let's call him. Like, I don't know.

I'd love to talk about my marriage. You know, we're five years and things really settle in. They're simmering. Yeah. I guess what I, what was the big pull for me at the end when I was like really sitting with that? And in the rewatch too, I confirmed. I was like, wow, you don't stay friends with everyone forever.

And the fact that in the last- Mel Robbins calls it the Great Scattering. Yes, yeah, the Great Scattering. She does call it that. But that whole last season is kind of about like them realizing that, I imagine. Like, you know what I mean? Like they're moving into their, different lives. Like all of a sudden there's something solidifying here and you didn't know it was

coming now, but it is coming now and the sadness that comes with that, not even the acceptance, the idea that you might have to accept it. And that I think is one of the truest things about the show. And I don't know about you, but I held on really tight. I was really scared for the great scattering. I held on, I mean, I think my friends and I talk to each other in our 20s, if I look back, it's like people in a relationship. It's like we're at. It's like, I feel like it's been a little strange lately and you're not responding to me the way. And it's like, now I would never say that to a friend in a fucking million years. Never. It's what happened.

You've got a big, complicated life. We're all trying to just get through this thing. And it's what happens. And, you know, the show was also interesting because it was all about these friendships, but I was also literally always on set. So the friendships I talk about this, the friendships that it was about were then affected by the fact that I wasn't around. And then it was this big, it was like I went to sleep one day and then, or like stepped

onto this into Hannah's apartment one day. And then I got out when I was 30 and it was like, I'm back guys. And they were all like, we're pregnant. Yeah. Like you are looking for a boyfriend on Delancey Street. We're pregnant. Yeah. And I was like, anybody want to hear about my hysterectomy?

And they're like, we are wearing clogs in Brooklyn together. And I remember being like going to visit my friends, I'm that weird aunt lady that comes in and she's like, I've brought you guys scarves. I was, well, I was traveling and you know what that means? Yes. Little gifts for everyone. My mom had a friend.

My mom has a lot of wonderful eccentric friends, but I remember she had one friend who didn't have kids who came over once because she wanted to take some photos of our hairless cat to work into a video art piece naturally. naturally. Well, yes. And she was wearing like full Issy Miyaki pleats, please. And I saw a tattoo on her hand.

And she was like, she was, I loved her partially because she was the only chubby woman that I really knew because downtown was not rife with those. But also she was wearing Issymiaki pleats please. And I said, I like your tattoo. And she said, do you want to see my others? And she dropped her pants. And she had like a full, like, a constellation of all of the constellations on her like big. beautiful ass. The universe on her ass.

And I was like, that's what I want to be. Yeah. I would never drop my pants in front of a child. No, but I want that to be the. If you did, you'd be her. If I did, that was a different time. But if I, but I do, I got comfortable with the idea of like, I'm going to come in to take a picture of your hairless cat for a video art piece and you're going to say, do you,

and there you're going to say, what's that tattoo? And I'm going to say, I've made some mistakes. And it's just a matter, I've made some mistakes. It's just a matter of if your friends want to stick around for that. You know what I mean? 100%. I think the show girls is about a friendship, a group of friends sort of, I mean, friendship is entropic.

It's like it's just inevitable. And I think that's what the book is about. It's about like a friendship sort of splitting up. And that's kind of, that's like the most universal thing you can write about. I remember once saying to my mom like, it's so sad. I used to know all these people that I don't know anymore. And she's like, that's called being alive. Yeah, living.

Like she was like, have you ever heard of like Judith Garrigan? And I was like, no. And she's like, well, she was my best friend. until you were three. Yeah. And then she drank a lot. There's, that's an incident. I made it up on the spot.

I used to look another human being in the eyes and say, we will die together. I haven't spoken to them in 30 years. Yes. By the way, correct. We don't speak outside of this. We don't speak outside of this. I know.

And the thing about whether your friends want to stick around for that, like that's one of the reasons I think I've had such prolonged and beautiful friendships with queer men is because since my life didn't necessarily conform to some of the milestones. that I thought it would. Right. Being friends with people who had a different idea

about what family and adulthood could mean was like deeply important to me. Yeah. There was commonality there where you may have tried to find it somewhere else. I thought that I was supposed to be,

and by the way, I love all those women and they were still my friends, but I thought I was supposed to be in Bushwick but have moved out of the smaller place into the townhouse and be wearing the clogs. And actually,

I was supposed to be at the Esselin Resort in the hot springs with a buff acupuncturist. Yeah, of course. Yes. Talk about the vaping. Shout out to Russell. Shout out to Russell. I just, yeah, I just feel like, in, it's just in terms of like the way you write character, it's like, obviously there's a couple huge.

The book is really about like relationships and there's two relationships that you just, you lose by the end of the book. But what I wanted to say was you've always created some. some of the like best characters of our generation, but the way that you write these people in your life, it's like such a beautiful thing, a testament to the place that they held in your life. And I feel like if you have anything in you,

and I'm sure you do, I'm positive you do, which is like nervous about how they're going to receive it, which of course you are going to. Because of course whenever you make something, you make it for like two people and they're probably two people who won't even look at it. That's life. But the thing is like the way you've written them

is so beautiful because what I love about what you do, even if sometimes you were fighting with yourself because you might feel a different way about these two people on any given day. It's like, it feels like you always held true to. I'm going to try and 360 flesh this person out as much as you can because, you know, with these relationships like Jenny and Jack,

you get a sense of both their humor. You get a sense of both their positive oddities. You get a sense of them on all of their best days. They're the two funniest, most special, most defining relationships of 20 to 30. I mean, your first romantic relationship where you feel deeply understood is like the most precious thing that can ever exist. You're like, oh, I thought I really had a crush on that guy in 10th grade, but this is

a whole, the first time you make a life with someone, the first best, real adult best friend you have. And I hoped that I could show like why I fell in love with them. And also that it couldn't. I was quoting Casey Musgraves to you earlier saying that when she had to be She said it's a soul connection that didn't work out. Yeah. And that doesn't, I think like love is a turn.

I think if you love someone really deeply, firstly, we know that if when two people get divorced or something and they're like, I fucking hate them, you're like, that's because you were obsessed with them and your obsession had to, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, and therefore it had to transmute into something. And my goal has always been not to have that transmute into something negative. And also, if I didn't feel that deep love for them, I'd have to do this like grand erasure of all these memories. And I remember I dated one person after my breakup

and it was like a quick, it was one of those four months, like four months that could have been 50 years. Yeah. And afterwards I deleted all the photos. And it's one time I've done that and I regret it so much because it's like there's this hole in my life

that I just, in this moment of rash, maybe you can call Tim Cook and he can get them back. Yeah, honestly. He's got them. I did the same thing. I did it with, I did it with text messages.

in a lot of photos and I go back and forth now on whether or not that was the right thing to do. It was the right thing for you in the moment because you knew that you were not, you could not trust yourself with them. Because I was obsessing. Yes. And I think that like, you were self-harming through nostalgia. That's really what it was. And I knew in the moment that that's what it had become.

And so I was like, I think in order to set myself free from this, I have to do this. But as someone who does, you know, see value in looking back and being like, Oh, and also just like the way you talk positively and the way you draw up what it feels like to finally get comfortable in a relationship. Like actually made me look back on like one particular X that I, you know, kind of have exclusively like hard feelings about. Yeah. And reading what you wrote about like an old relationship. And I was like, oh, like one good thing I can say is like I really like being silly with him. Like I was thinking something when I was reading your words.

It's like, oh, that person when someone sees you silly. Well, it's so funny. Like the movement of it all. The movement of it all. The names that you give each other. And like, you know, it's like, it's, it's, it's, you're, you can't replicate that. And I ran, I was once just, I was at the Toronto Film Festival. It's some, one of the places that I've been in my life.

I don't know what to say. And I ran into my, um, ex-boyfriend. I was with my husband. And he was watching. And in the Tolentownownownsway, he was like, you guys were being so funny together. And you just get back into this like In a way when you've had a long-term relationship with someone Especially through a very pivotal moment in your life

There's things that they will only Like there's certain facts about my aunts Particularly my aunts Bonnie and Susan Who are very important complex female characters And I will something will happen with Bonnie and Susan I'll be like this is the only person who could possibly understand how funny this is And do you reach out? Sometimes I think that it's I don't like to have

A blockade Right And I, you know, I try to do it in appropriate doses. I'm not like, I'm not like, hey, came across this photo of us really made me think. I think that's aggressive. That's aggressive. To a married man from a married woman. Psychotic.

And I'm totally capable of that. I just have to reel it in. We've seen the show. You know? Like, there's a part of me that could 100% be like, there's funny things that you go, this is a value that we remember this. And it's, I remember when my father's, my father's parents died and then his brother died. And he was like, there's nobody else who remembers what it was like to be in my family. First, he kept saying I'm an orphan.

And I was like, okay, you're 70. So I don't know if you get to claim that title. Everyone wants a title these days. But, and that's the thing is it's really beautiful to have people who remember, even if they remember differently. And my goal in the book was to show how much they meant and how much love there is that still exists for them. will also, and I'm sure that someone could give their account and it would be the same events, but with an extremely different,

I mean, that's the amazing thing about the world is like, we're all looking through our own eyes. I'm on acid. No, no, no, but I think we're on acid too. It's called Celsius. It's called Celsius. But there was also so much in like your working relationship and close, close, close friendship with Jenny

that like, I texted Bowen and I was like, are you reading this? This is about relevant stuff. I was like, it's about relevant. things. Well, I think the thing that I've learned, I mean, those creative relationships that were so intense, they were like marriages.

They were like all these, it was like I was, it was like I was in a polyamorous relationship. I mean, it was, and in a way I look back and I'm like, that was my primary relationship. Yeah. And then I had a secondary relationship, which was a boyfriend. And then a tertiary relationship,

which was my dad. Right. And so that is, oh, that's, That's a wild thing to look back on. And creative relationships, you do know really well, require just as much, if not more, emotional maintenance. Like, when you're married to a straight man, there's so much that you just don't even have to say. Like, my brother was like, it must be so relaxing to be married to a straight guy because they, like, are not really picking up on anything. You don't have to.

Like, it's like, whenever I've ever heard of. And nothing means more than it does. That's exactly right. When I'm around queer couples, they're like, you moved your eyebrows or you're feeling a little bit destabilized. and like you can just hide in your own house for days with a straight man. The studying of punctuation, forget it. It doesn't mean anything. If a queer man or woman is texting you in a punctuation way that is out of the order,

I'm like, oh, something is deeply wrong. Oh, yeah, no. My husband will just send a text that he doesn't. It's just one word, inexplicable word, because he hasn't looked back. And I will look back at a text and be like, did I say what? I meant to say. The amount of text I edit. You're just sending out word and meant to send the rest but didn't. Last thing he just sent me a picture

of a broken window in our house with zero explanation. And I was like, were we robbed? And he was like, no, no, it was a wind issue. And I was like, you need to lead with that. But in the relationship with another woman specifically, the amount that you're picking up, it's

like this insane it's like whatever's traveling between machines at the Apple headquarters. It's like this insane. It's like this insane level of information and subtlety. And also in creative relationships, you're in each other's heads in a different way. You've been your smartest with that person. They know your dumbest.

They've been your smartest. You've been your dumbest in the middle of the night. You've been your most petulant. You've been your most elegant. You've been your most brave. All of it. It's really amazing. And I think they require a very specific kind of care and maintenance.

And that's why I'm sending you to Esther Perel. Oh, brother. I Heart Radio is throwing it back. 20s, the decade. To the days of huge hits. And unforgettable items. A non-stop stream of the biggest and best. Drake, Rihanna, Beyonce, Katie Gaga, the weekend.

And more. All your decade-defining favorites all in one place. Hi, it's Katie Perry. Hey, it's Bruno Mars. This is Keshe. Find 2010's The Decade on the free IHeart Radio app. Preset the station so it's always one tap away. There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. They said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I said, hi, dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen and she says, I have some cookies and milk.

This is a badass convict. Right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at mom. Yeah. On the Seno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon, Danny Trail,

talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free I-Heart radio app. Search the Cito Show and listen now. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money.

It's financial literacy. month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first, it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component. to communities thriving.

If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work

unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to eating while broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. During the therapy scene, I was like, because we've talked, like, at particular moments there have been like,

well maybe we should see a counselor or a therapist like or a therapist like or someone that and then we land on like mediator you know what I mean it's like those things where like you know the relationship like needs something but you're not ready to say what kind of person and then you're like kind of filtering through the sand of like well what is the difference between these people and you're like maybe it should just be a friend who likes us both to talk it through but then that oh just to save on like the explanation yeah just you can but But there is something, I mean, also going to therapy with somebody that you work with is a big choice because you go, okay, I'm really proclaiming the significance of this dynamic because we're in a therapist's office together. So you two have never been to therapy together yet. No.

No. We've gotten far along in the process, but then inevitably things pop up and we're like, okay, we got to address this and we will be together and we can, we are, we can work this out ad hoc as necessary. We can work this out amongst ourselves. Until we really need to like... My therapist says she doesn't think we need it. By the way, I trust that. Yeah. And also, it seems to me as a passionate viewer that you're doing fine. I'm not picking up on any tension right now.

It's not like... Okay, great. What I will say is that whenever there is a period of tension, it does break. And it blows. And we're always literally 50 times better afterwards. I sometimes wish it didn't have to get there. but I also think that we get better at communicating every time and as we know that's what it is all about.

Well also, it is all about that and I don't know about you. I am extremely conflict avoidant except for I saw this. I don't love it. I saw a meme that was like this man did something and he's about to see the woman that only my father knows and that's truly like I think if you have a as a woman if you have a comfortable issue with it. Like I have yelled in a way that's like blown the hair back on his head.

Oh, forget it. And I can't do it with and he said to me before he's been like, you need to go in there and act like you act with me, like a fucking bitch. But it's really hard. And I think one of the reasons I love writing conflict, like I've never been in a four-way scream-off like happened at the beach house.

I would pass out. I would dissociate. I would go to another plane of existence. I remember the first time it happened with you and Allison in I guess it was the penultimate episode of one. You are the wound. Yeah, you are the wound. Bruce Eric Kaplan's great line, you are the wound.

And I remember doing it and feeling sick even doing the scene. Because I was like, I don't want to yell at you like this. I love you. Your body doesn't know the difference. Yeah. No. And you're like, this is feels horrible. But then also it's so fun to do because you're like, this is a world in which I somehow feel comfortable screaming in my friend's face.

Yeah. And telling her all these things that I used to always say to like anyone who would list, I'd be like, and then I was like, and then I was like, and they'd be like, did you actually say any of that stuff? And I was like, no, I was like. I was like. We're the same. We're the same. Oh, no, you're always, you're always in, you're always like truly, truly, truly like a Kate Blanchett performance in your mind with someone else. Oh.

Or like, like, like, Shonda rhymes in, on the best seasons of grace. Like, turning to someone and being like, I'm giving it to you exactly succinctly and I can feel proud of the way I express myself. One of the great moments of my life, despite the fact that my wig on scandal was not ideal, is that I delivering a Shonda Rhymes monologue. And it was like, yes, I am a woman who loves sex, but am I a slut? No. And it was like, I do delivering it to beautiful Carrie Washington with all my might. And then, of course, I had to get my throat slit because I was a slut. You died on that?

Yeah, Huck killed me. Huck killed you for the sin of being a slut? You didn't get your throat slip because you were a slut. Huck killed me because I was about to kill someone else. Oh, well then. Who was trying to kill me. Getting killed by Huck is hot, though. Damn.

It was amazing. I had a backpack of blood. And then they made this thing. and suddenly there was like a man who pulled a thing and blood squirted from my neck. So fun. Have you died on screen? No, I want to so badly. I've died twice in a, in scandal.

Yeah. And in American Horror Story. Oh, the dreams. I mean, those are the peace. And when I died in American Horror Story, I rotted from the inside. And what it involved was I'm supposed to have maggots in my eyes. So they glued my eyes shut and covered them in white rice. And then there was a PA.

who this person deserve, I mean, whoever you are, I couldn't see you, so I'm sorry, but I'm going to speak directly to you. Thank you for what you did. Yeah. I want to thank you.

You led me around by the back so gently all day long, making sure I didn't trip over any scenery while I rotted from many angles. There's a guy for everything, as you're saying, a guy for everything. There's a guy for everything.

I'm speaking of dying, but not, the vaping. Okay. What do you want to say here? So, what I want to say. We're on a, Text Jane.

We are. Do you want to revoke what it's called? It's called Life is so. Life is just so. It's just so. Which is another gorgeous turn of phrase by Ms. Lena Dunham. Thank you so.

I believe because we were at Apple and I just went, Life is Just So. And then you created our text chain. It's so. It's just so. So we're on Life is Just So. And I like sometimes if I feel like they're too far, I just like to pop in.

And it's the best moment. Remind them that I'm there. and I said, how are you? And you let me know that you had been going through an experience with someone you were dating. Fraser. Fraser. I'm allowed to say it. No, no, please.

We can bring, we can invoke Fraser. So, Fray's had an incident that a vaping induced lung infection. Evil. So basically what happened was, and some people might not know this, but so Fraser. Fraser was a, he was a vape artist. Yes. And like so many out there. Yeah.

And basically the, the. The cartridge essentially like this can happen. When you're sucking on that vape. And listen. I'm going to look at the camera again. Listen to this man. The like oil from the vape cartridge can basically leak into your lungs and it's poison. And so when we were at BravoCon and I can say this because he has said all of it.

And this is all about his health and it's public. And I would never share anything if he hadn't been public about it. But we were at BravoCon. I stole his medical records. Melissa and I were there. and we were all there together. I was actually announcing that the Cultural Wars are coming back.

He was obviously there for below deck. It was exciting. A fun moment. We're a power cup. We're a Bravo con. You know, I wasn't even going with the idea of like, and we're going to take a photo on the carpet.

He wanted to take a picture together. I was like, let's do it. I put it on my Instagram. Then all of a sudden, that very weekend, people were like, oh, Matt and Fraser are dating. As that was happening. So intense.

And I know this is going to sound dramatic. He had a heart attack in front of me. Doesn't sound dramatic. It's true. It's traumatic. is what it is. And I feel like what people don't know is it's like if you know you obviously know because it's

horrifying and it's hard to explain but you don't know a heart attack is happening every time. It's like he had very intense chest pains and like couldn't get comfortable and you know was short of breath and had to bail on the whole night with us and we checked in on him later and it was ongoing.

And so I'm thinking like is this stress and anxiety, whatever? We find out much later after tests come in that essentially because of this poison that got in his lungs, he had what was the equivalent of a heart attack. And it was really bad. And we were in the hospital until 5, 5.30 in the morning. We really had only been dating for about three months.

Which is also really intense because it certainly, you haul lesbians, things up a bit. Oh, 100%. And so we were already like really enjoying being together. And then there was this health stuff that entered. And so that like accelerated things. and, you know, now where we're at is he was, he's off. I can't say where, but he's, you know, creating a secret tropical location. Yeah, he's creating the television program many people like and I'm going to see him soon.

But while he's been gone and I've been sort of busy doing my own thing, we kind of did like take a little bit of space just because of how intense everything had gotten and like personal things. And you had to go into caretaker mode and he's grappling with this terrifying change to his body. and it's really intense. And you shared just the littlest, thank you for sharing, and you shared just the littlest snippet with me. Yeah. And I didn't know you had been addicted to the stuff.

Oh, when we were at Apple, I didn't have my vape because I was trying to be elegant. Right. And do you remember we got in the car? I was like sweating. Like, I was like, can someone get a gas station? Can someone find a gas station? Oh my God.

We went to stop because I had been off the vape for like 24 hours and I was losing my mind. So I was a L-I-L-L-E-E-R. A L'LV, a late in life vapor. Late in Life Vapor. I started vaping on the set of a little television show called Industry because... Yes, because you were directress? I was directress of the pilot, but also it was in Wales.

It was in Wales. People love to party in Wales. Don't I know about English people. You know about English people. Hello, Fraser. They love sucking those things. They love sucking those things. And a friend was like, oh, you don't drink, you don't smoke, you're sober. You know what?

This is this... It tastes like candy. It doesn't do anything to you except put you in a great mood. Like literally it was handed to me like it was a ring pop. Yeah. And it looks like a toy. It looks like a toy. It lights up.

It makes noises. And I went, great. Am I anxious all the time? Sure. Do I like to do something with my hands? Absolutely. And I became a person who would like wake up with my vape under my pillow. And I was not proud of it.

I was embarrassed about it. I used to like hide it in my sleeve during meetings. I mean, it was really became like a pacifier. And I had this. I stopped. I started. I'm also a chronically old person. I have no business.

I mean, I have practically no business drinking Celsius. This is the craziest thing I've done in months. We're so sorry. No, I love it. New vice unlocked. Yep. But I was in this on-off relationship. I stopped.

I started for one minute. I was like, you know, it would be healthier than vaping? Rolled cigarettes. That's insane. But I was married to an English man. Right, right, right. And he quit, and I still couldn't. It was, and I kept, I was in a shame cycle with the vape.

and I was sitting there just sucking on my vape, texting my boys, and you said this, and I, because I am dramatic, I literally took the vape and I dropped it into a cup of water so that I couldn't retrieve it. And I went to days the day it stops, and I've not taken a puff since. It's been... You're incredible.

Thank you so much. But you did that for me because everyone else is like popcorn lung. It's a little abstract. We don't know what happens. You can understand heart attack. And I've never understood it more than when it was. happening in front of me. And also I could feel the urgency.

And you said to me, I'll never forget, you go, these things are so much more evil than we know. Yeah. We don't even know the beginning of it. His lungs look like a 70-year-old man's, and I just went, I want no part of this. And I have to say, the first week, it was the week of Thanksgiving.

And my family had all chosen to assemble without me. Do it that, but you will. Okay, okay. No, my, they were on various little chips. And did you figure yourself phantom grab? all day. Every day I'd reach for it in my pocket. But I spent the week alone sweating it out,

which needed to happen because I am generally a pretty, I have my issues, but I'm a good mood girl. Like I don't take my moods out on other people. I was raised in a house where I was like, if you're in a bad mood, you better turn yourself back around, Missy, and come back out here with a smile. Right, yeah.

Because who puts the shoes on your feet? Fix your face culture. Yes. My father's a was a was fix your face culture. And so I don't, and I was in a kind of, mood. It was a synthetic nasty mood that could not be controlled. Because the nefarious thing about these things is that they were meant originally to help you quit smoking cigarettes. And now

yesterday I saw a girl in the bodega and she was crying because her credit card wasn't working and she wanted her vaid. Yeah. And she was like 23 and I did pay for it because I was like, I can't watch you in this kind of pain. But I said to her, you got to stop. Yeah, because look at you. Look at your life. Look at your choices. And I also said, get zins, gets lozenges, but also anything that makes you cry in the bodega. Like, there's nothing I want in the bodega that if I can't get it, I'm going to cry. I'm reduced to tears. Yes, and I don't want to live that way.

Speak for yourself. I don't want to live that way. I don't know that way. I also got to say, like, he has remained off the vap. He's doing so much better. I'm going to see him in a week. Does he use lozenges or anything or he's gone to know nicotine? It's crazy about those British people.

It's stiff upper fucking lip. When my husband quit smoking, I was like, do you want to do a patch doing this? And he was like, that is for pussies. Oh, yeah. Wow. He wants to feel the pain. He was like, it was so, if you know Fraser from the show, it was so Fraser. It was right then it's over.

It was just like, it's done. And he loved the thing. Like, I mean, but, and I have to say the. Then as someone's like boyfriend in that moment, you, I think it might make it easier too when you have someone that's like, hi, like, I'm here too. This like really was scary and it affected me. And I do think there is a degree of like all of a sudden. It's like that zoom out thing.

It's like football. It's like football. I know about football. That's fucking crazy. Yeah. Well, yeah. But I guess my thing to be, you know, negative on football is like you zoom out as an alien looking on the world and you're like, what do they do?

It doesn't seem exactly right. like many forms of like, you know, government, things like that. Like if we all were to just zoom out, the zooming out that happens when you look at people sucking on a little machine of smoke, of course. Right there, you'll be like, well, I look crazy. My husband was a smoker. He saw me with the vape.

He goes, it looks like you're plugged into a USB. Like you have to go back to your USB to charge every five minutes. Like you look like a demented robot. And it's interesting the thing you said about going, this is really scary for me because the only thing that a. affected my behavior in my 20s when I was not healthy and not making choices to be healthier was my family looking at me after I'd had a terrifying incident in the hospital being that was scary for us and if you love people you don't want them to suffer yeah well you're moving through

the world completely aware of your body and like I'm starting to be well like and you're hearing this thing that phrase went through and you're like it's done drop it in the water drop it in the water, never look at it again. It was green. And it was green. And I remember her every day. And I think about her every day. And when I see people vaping, I think, I hope that you have fun and I hope you. A woman once said to me, a powerful one said, when I quit smoking, she said, I didn't judge myself. I thanked myself for what it gave me. And I do think those years, do I think it was good that I vape for six years on and off? On and off? No. Do I think that during that time, I needed something to stop like darker impulses, probably yes.

And now I'm like training wheels are off. Yeah. The vape is gone. But I do have stuffed animals. Of course. The woman who, what did she say? I think I thank everyone gave me. Yeah. And that woman was Marie Kondo. And that woman, wait.

What was going to say? Oh, but this is like when a total fucking stranger tells you, hey, I watched girls. I read your book and I think you have EDS. That was the craziest. It was so crazy. A total stranger wrote to me, I had been... It's the Zoom Out.

It's the Zoom Out. And it was exactly right. Everything she said. It was like reading my... She literally, her name is Marjorie, she literally made my life make sense to me because I had my entire childhood, I had all of this weird symptoms.

Like, you're running in Dodgeball and your knee dislocates and your teacher's like, how did you do that? Nobody touched you. You know, I was like, I was the... If there was, if there was anyone had a cold at school, like within, you know, six hours, I was going down. I had migraine starting when I was seven. I had really strong. I used to faint when I had to be, when I was in the sun, which my grandma loved because once I fainted

in the customs line in Mexico and we got to skip. And she said, I'll never forget. She said, can you do that again? Poor act. Customs hack. But what was amazing was I had been, I knew I had endometriosis and I had been writing about my health, which involved more symptoms. And also there were times I had to pause life for my health. And this woman had been paying attention. She said, even the way that you run, the way that your skin

flushes, it all makes sense and sent me to this doctor at Johns Hopkins. And now there's more awareness about, there's both more awareness about Ailer Danlo syndrome, other sort of autoimmune illness, the intersection between these things in endometriosis. There's increasing sort of people in the medical field to understand, but it was also a huge moment for me because I was like, you know, a Jewish girl who was raised to be like, the doctor's always right.

Yeah. That was who you respected in, like my grandfather's great shame was that he was a dentist, not a doctor, because he had not been able to afford, like, that much schooling. And so he loved to be Dr. Samuel Simmons,

but he felt shame about the kind of doctor that he was. Oh, Dr. Simmons. I wish I could relieve that pain. Andy Kaufman's orthodontist. Wow. I never clocked his teeth. Anyway, I keep going.

That's probably a good thing. My grandpa wasn't really keeping it doing cosmetic. He was doing like, does one of your teeth go out like that? Yeah. I'll put it back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a thing in our house, which was you were never supposed to let him look in your mouth because if you had a loose tooth, he would rip it out.

No. And so my mom would always be like, whatever we do, when we get to pass over, do not open your mouth for grandpa. Because his thing was just like, come on. Let's go. And he had his office in the house and his tools were upstairs. I had to say there's something about an in-home dental or doctor thing, which, no, I trust it more. I'm like, this is the center of your life literally, so you must be carrying down. So do you know who the central orthodontal, the central dental practices in Great Neck-Long Island between the period of 1945 and 1983?

Dr. Sam Simmons. Dr. Samuel Simmons and the patriarch from capturing the freedmen's. And those were the two warring. Remind me? Do you remember the documentary about the family that end up maybe being predatory monsters?

It was like the first Andrew Jurecki documentary. I watched it at Angelica. Nicole Kidman was sitting in front of me at the theater. And it's about this family that potentially it's unclear whether they could. committed sort of like mass acts of pedophilia or whether there was a sort of like satanic panic moment that happened. I'm sure that you end up kind of really siding, of course, with the victims, but he was this

orthodontist who's kind of seemed like he had this really perfect family and then it disintegrates. And his son was Bobo the Clown, the Premier Party clown of downtown Manhattan. So he used to do birthday parties. And the father was the other orthodontist in Great Neck. of course, when all of this came out, my grandfather was king. Of course. I have to say, and this is the biggest compliment I could give, that story sounds like a limited series starring Matthew Reese.

That's so nice. That's the best compliment I can give. Watch capturing the freedmen. I've never seen anyone nod as emphatically as Nicole Kidman ahead of me in the theater. In the Angelica. She was just excited to be in a theater. She loves it. I still remember what the light looked like pouring on her beautiful face.

It's just stunning. She sat here just days ago. I know. I know. I listened. It really was a transfer. When she saw the Looney Tunes on my shirt and couldn't handle herself for 45 seconds, I can't imagine anything better than making Nicole Kidman happy. It was wonderful. Except for making Tilda Swinton smile. Which I did once, once.

Tilda. So we need to get her in the chair. I have a photo. I don't do a, I'm sure you're the same, which is I don't do a lot of celebrity approaches. I'm always shocked by when it comes out of me. Right. Like one time I saw Janice Dickinson at the Sunset Tower and I screamed, you mean everything to me.

Oh, I love that part of the book. You know that recently I facetimed Judd and he had facetimed me and I was in bed, sweaty mess. He goes, Lena, I'm a little busy right now. Passes the phone to Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell. Heard you for pretty much no feelings. The masculinity radiating from the screen, do you want to know what I did?

What did you do? like this. Hey, you're my number one movie star. What happened? Who is she? What's going on? And Glenn Powell's like, thank you. That's so sweet.

And then I go, ain't no sat like a Jed Apatow set? It's so like, gosh. No lies told. No lies told, but what's she doing? No, I think she. Something else took over. That's exactly what happened. And that's usually when I approach a celebrity.

It's something else takes over. 100%. learned the hard way because I once approached theater character actress legend Jackie Hoffman in a bodega and said you were incredible in kissing Jessica Stein and she went oh and I went I'm never doing that again

yeah but you know what you had the right idea which was to not approach with the most popular things she's done you approach with the thing that's going to hit them in the heart the most like when I met Queen Latifah and three people in front of me said I loved you in Chicago and I went up to her and said I loved you in life support which was her AIDS drama on HBO. If you don't think I remember life support.

And she said, thank you so much baby. And she probably was like, that means everything to me. One time when I was at Esselin, my favorite place in the world, a woman said, I loved how you represented pelvic pain in your TV show camping. Camping is not even available on HBO Max. It has been scrubbed. Jennifer Garner's probably taking it off for IMDB. Beautiful person, amazing experience.

Inside and out. Inside and out. makes blueberry buckle for the crew. Ain't no set like a Jennifer Garner set. But that being said, like you never, when someone says something to you like that, you cannot help but be bold over.

And that's what you did for Latifah. The newest tracks. Let's go. New music. And the next big thing. Always on the new music first. Your first place to hear it all. Because you're going to like it,

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Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I was, hi, Dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, I have some cookies and milk. This is a badass convict. Right.

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So they're telling me we're almost we're almost out of times we have to do. I don't think so honey. All right. We need to ask you the question, but that's okay. Oh my God, we didn't even ask the question. Really quickly. Do you want to tell us what was? What was the culture that made you say culture was for you? It was seeing Sarah Jessica Parker and Jane Krikowski

in once upon mattress. On Broadway. Lady Larkin and Winifred. Correct. Thank you so much. And I sang, I'm shy. I'm so quiet and shy for my camp musical audition. Did not get in.

But I just thought, like, I love being a woman. Women can be funny. They can be fun. They can be sexy. Sarah Jessica Parker is, like, wearing rags and screaming. I then went home. AOL.com printed out probably 100 low resolution images of Sarah Jessica Parker. made a wallpaper out of them.

Yep. And it's, it was so big for me. I'm so sad we don't have more time to talk about this. But yes, no, keep going. It was everything. And I mean, it's still, and then I've also gone back and watch Carol Burnett in it. Like, once upon a mattress to me is,

I love it because it's a musical where the central character is not supposed to be good at singing. Yeah. Like, which is one of the biggest fights my mom and I ever had was when I was going to impact performing arts camp in Salisbury, Connecticut. Yeah. I was in camp with all the Gummer sisters as well as Lily Rape.

They were all great at acting. We were doing a review. We were supposed to choose a song. My mom said, you should choose shy. No. No, she said from guys and dolls, Adelaide's Lament because it's a character piece. And I said, I want to sing Edelweiss. And she said, you are

a character actress. And I said, you are not an ingenue. She was right. But I wasn't ready to see the writing on the wall. You are a character actress. You are a character actress. No, it's the best.

Have a mom who knows you're a character actress. Yeah. I mean, my mom played Rhett Butler in the camp play. Like that's where she was tall, so they always gave her the boy parts. So she was like, take what you got, put on your robe, and sing Adelaide's lament. But I just love that Once Upon a Mattress

is a musical for girls who aren't naturally good at musicals. Yeah, because they can go, because I'm actually terribly. Me too. Shy. My favorite one is the swamps of home. Our brushed with green and gold.

Oh my God. Bye. Outbreak every day. I always forget that you're like a musical theater kid and then it just gets me right in my heart. Then I remember when I watch Wicked. You can stream that on Peacark.

Okay, so we got to do it. I don't think so honey. All right. I have one. This is our 60 seconds second where we take some time. 60 seconds. Great. To rake things across the coals.

I do have gently because you want jobs. Directed at our guest. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so honey. Directed at Lena Dunham. His time starts now.

I don't think so, honey, what you're about to do to role model, making him a movie star is so dangerous. I don't think so, honey, that we're going to be able

to handle it. I've been seeing Tucker rise and rise and rise. I've seen the Sally phenomenon. I said they're making a movie star now. If you think Hudson and Connor have taken over, just you fucking wait.

The little tattoos all over his body. His sort of easy way with a smile. The hair that looks unstyled, but you know it is. The sort of natural charm and charisma. I don't think so, honey, that we're ready for this person to show us perfection in this type of way. Not to put pressure. Because I think putting pressure on it would then sort of like, I don't know. I would hate for any thought to run through his head besides, well, I'm up.

I'm in a good mood. I'm going to do my thing today, which seems like the vibe. I don't think so honey that we're going to be able to get through, but I do think so honey that I'm going to be there. Thank you. Natalie Portman, Tucker, I'm in the seat. I do think so. And that's one minute. And Rashida Jones kind of giving him like a little askance look.

And I will say this, that I showed an early cut of the movie to a friend of mine who's like a very thoughtful 45-year-old writer like who's like half queer. And she was like, you're ruining my life. Like I didn't think I still had feelings like this. in me. And it's funny because I so want Tucker never to feel objectified that I literally talked to him like, I'm like, put her here, pal. Like I was like, I talked to him like I'm a friend's father who's just walked in from golfing and doesn't really want kids at the house because I so don't want him to ever feel like all of these like creepy. Like I want him to feel freedom and I'm like anyone can be objectified like this. I don't want this like lovely young boy who like loves his

mother Susan so much to ever feel that he's being like because you'll be too late on that. He has the perfect perspective on it though because and by that I mean he has a sense of humor because he recently or a couple months ago posted something on Instagram stories where it was a meme because they have the same haircut of a famous Sean Cody porn star named Brandon and he was like come to the show tonight. He has an awareness of what he does to people but doesn't flaunt it too much. and too flagrant of a way that he will be perfect and objectify him. He's also just a good boy. Like, I was around him for long enough that if the facade was going to crack, it would have.

Let's just say if someone was going to kick a rug or throw a chair, it would have happened. And he is a good boy. Like, he's from Maine. He gets really happy when dogs show up. There's an ease, and he is obviously poetic and complicated. I just love him. He's my buddy. I like text in pictures of my pigs all the time

and he writes LOL. And it's, you know, it's very healthy to have young friends. He writes LOL. He writes LOWL. I love him. But he's a really good actor and it's annoying. Oh, I love that. It's very like Brad Pitt in California

where you're like, who's that? Yeah, okay. Well, get ready for that. Who's that moment. Here's Bowen-Yangs. I don't think so many. I'm so excited. I'm so inspired by August.

Okay, this is Bowen-Jing's. I don't think so many. He's time starts now. I don't think so honey. More places should be like the Tower Bar at Sunset Tower and serve what? Chicken Pop Pie. Oh.

I don't care that it costs $34 like it does at Tower Bar. Price it up. Inflate that all you want. I know I'm paying for something premium. Even if it's pretty bad, I love the crust. And you're thinking, oh, but Bowen, it's so hard to make and it's so hard to scale up at a restaurant. Buy the puff pastry ahead of time.

30 seconds. Put it in the freezer. Lay it out on the day. you'll be okay. Cut it out on just above, you know, above the dish. It will be fine.

It's not that hard to make. I just want it made from the expertise and curatorial sort of just pov of a chef. And Tarabar, I do lament how populated it's been. It's gone since your time there

and making it a home. I love going still. It has a new valence to it now. It has a, really new valence. And that's one minute. That was incredible. I agree with you 100%. I will say, and I talk about this in the book, that I, during COVID, I was for a period the only guest at the Sunset Tower. Incredible. There was one guest. There was a gentleman at the desk. There was a lady upstairs in 1109. She was me. I was a little, and my dog, Ingrid, who has her own

relationship to that place. And because I was alone, I could go work on my computer in the bar. Yeah. I could go sit by the pool. I could go sit on the roof. The freedom, I was Eloise. It was the greatest time of my life. And no one knew that the burger was famous, so they couldn't charge $46 for it. Well, they weren't even serving food.

They were literally serving croissants wrapped in, you know, croissants wrapped in whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tinfoil because they, I forgot the word for tin foil. They have good pigs in a blanket too, I believe. I am a vegetarian, but that's not a judgment. More for me. But I've had them before in my,

Pat, when I was acting out of pocket and eating meat, and I loved them. And now I was alone at the Tower Barn. It was really beautiful. And then you set one table on fire. Yeah, and they kicked out. And they didn't kick me out, which was incredible. What they did was, look, monitor me. And now every time I see lovely Jeff who runs a Tower Bar, he says, are you going to

send anything on fire today? And I go, no, no, no, I don't have matches. I don't have a lighter. My husband won't let me. You can't live down something like letting something on fire. And once you walk back into that establishment, it's tough. Okay. Well, you're about to set this whole place on fire with your, I don't think so, honey.

Are you ready? I thought about it in advance. I can't be as good in Nicole Kidman saying bad breath and everything will ever be as good. Listen, we're all trailing in her dust. But are you ready? This is Lena Dunham's. I don't think so honey. Her time starts now.

I don't think so, honey, quiet luxury. Oh. I don't. If I'm going to have luxury, I want it to be loud. Firstly, I'm not, since when did elegance mean that you were wearing oatmeal with bone, with beige, with tan? We have so many colors, we have so many materials.

Why is looking like you work at a spa? Suddenly a sign. Did rich people get so bored with having so many things that they thought the most important things are going to be things that look like nothing? thing. And I don't think so, honey. You're a fashion blogger and you're showing me that you have a top that looks like someone's baby's skin and a pants that look like someone else's brother and both those people

are white. I don't want it. Five seconds. I don't think so, honey. When I get something and I spend a lot of money on it, I want everyone to know. Headlines. And that's one minute. Honestly, It does, I think I'm going to say something big. Fashion got worse when we went minimalist.

The other thing to know is that like minimalism looks very different on a person who spent 20 years creating their body. Of course. Whereas like minimalism on a person who's just trying to survive is a different energy. Yeah, it's just a shirt that looks. And like what you want me to get,

spend $500 on a t-shirt that looks like the one that I want. wore over my bathing suit when I went to the breakers with my grandma in 1992. Well, it looks dirty on purpose a little bit, so that's why it's more expensive. Yeah, that's exactly right. And it looks like

someone sewed it in a shaker community. And I'm mad. But you can see the stitching. That's why it's $8,000. I'm mad. I'm so mad. And I see things and I just go, you're really trying to tell me this? And I don't want to indulge in fast fashion. I'm not trying to hurt the planet.

No, no. But that, but I don't, want what you're offered. So I'm going to have to go to Forever 21. Yeah. I'm going to have to go to Forever 21. Thank you for giving me the space to say. Of course. I'm going to have to go to Forever 21 being the pull quote.

Maybe that's title of that. I'm going to have to go Forever 21. The first time Forever 21 opened, I was like, this is a utopia for women like me. It felt like something that wasn't for us in one of the things that, like, it was one of those moments where it's like, you know when you're like a little gay boy and you see Justin Timberlake and all the girls are excited. you can't be. No.

So you get angry. That's how I felt about Forever 21. I'm like, they have a place to go hang out. But then we would go at NYU at the Forever 21 Union Square. And that was a haven. Well, finding out that they even sold things

for boys slash men. I used to like, if it was a hot day and I was in a dress and my thighs were rubbing till, you just pop into Forever 21 and get a pair of like neon bike shorts and suddenly your outfit is singing. Yeah. Beautiful.

Famic April 14th. I love being with you too. and it's so special to have our group chat come to life in this way. And thank you for everything you've given me. Friendship, changing my life through helping me quit vaping, reading the book so thoughtfully. We love every single page of it. Just like we love everything that you've done.

I mean, like, it's not a lie. That show, you're one of the most important people to our generation in terms of pop culture, in terms of what you contributed. Life is so. Life is just so. Life is just so. Life is just so. That's the title of that.

I love you guys. Love you. Love you. Thanks for having me and for jacking me up for three days. We love you. I'm going home to take 42 Benadryl. That's actually in vogue. Okay, we end every episode with the song.

You know the one. You know the one. You go. I'm curious if you know the one. I'm in the cold. So listen to the rest of that. Watch the best episode of television of all time. So nice.

And Robin's out. Sexistential. She's out. It's so good. I love you guys. Las Colteracis is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and I Heart Radio podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

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