Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Live From An Australian Cave!" (w/ Alan Cumming)

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

Coming to us from a literal underground opal mine in Australia, it's actual icon and genuine world treasure Alan Cumming!!! What?! And! Anyone that thinks you can't pull together a top notch Las Culturistas episode with a guest on the other side of the damn globe?! Eat it! We talk the recent Eurovision victors, what Pride means lately, the need to choose fun over darkness in both life and work, highlights of working on Spice World, Spy Kids, X2, Cabaret and Josie and the Pussycats, how Americans really don't understand camp, directing the amazing new scripted podcast Hot White Heist starring one BOWEN YANG (heard of her?!), being a playable character in the Goldeneye video game on N64, creatively visualizing the upcoming Shmigadoon, going to a nude beach with Ian McKellen, how Los Angeles is sort of like Hershey, Pennsylvania if you think about it, how children's theater changed Alan's life, not wanting to talk about acting or hang out with actors, and the haven that is Club Cumming. Listen to Hot White Heist now!!! You fools!  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City are back. I love that. I love that. Oh my gosh. Welcome. And last season's drama was just the tip of the iceberg. You're recording us? I am disgusted.

Never in a million years after everything we've been through did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy. We were friends. How could you do this to me? I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Wednesdays at 9 on Bravo, or stream it on City TV+. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba?

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer.

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Oh, and look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling.

Want to get out ahead of this? Sure. A straight wedding took my voice this week. Yep. It has not, the universe has not yet given it back, but I look forward to the day when I sound like me again. Well, I was just talking to you about hours ago and you're, and vocally you were even more shot than you are now.

And I really have to commend your recovery and your, the body the human body is amazing isn't the body one of the most amazing things actually it's a rule of culture what number is this again 91 91 the human body is amazing it's one of the most amazing things in the world talk to us about what brought you to this place well i sort of like what was that a straight wedding on Long Island with all my high school friends. And so that you can sort of fill in the blanks there. I ended up, ended up sort of wasted drinking tequila on the rocks with my high school friends at a Marriott at two in the morning. So that was how that went. I'm so happy for you that you're able to do this because i think i don't know if i'm speaking for i should just speak for myself i will speak for myself i do

not speak for me i won't speak for you or anyone listening i i couldn't do that with people from high school who i haven't kept up with in a while in a while like there are just so many cobwebs gossamer threads that we'd have to try to dust off. Look, alcohol is a wonderful social lubricant as we all know, but I just think... Great lube. I just would still be so...

The gun oil of non-sexual lubricants. Oh my god. Gun oil is sexual though. What are you saying? So I would say that... Oh, alcohol is non-sexual well don't and sort of what i'm saying there is that gun oil is the lube i use okay so that's a breadcrumb for the readers alcohol could be considered a sexual lubricant in many ways bowen and that's why i stan you so is because you're always thinking outside the box you have sort of one of those

most subversive queer comedy minds and that's what shoots you to the top for your consideration. This semi-season, Bo and Yang. Everyone, I know you got your ballots in hand. It makes me deeply uncomfortable that you talk about this every episode now. I think it's funny and I think it's going to happen. And then I think it's going to be even funnier. I don't want to talk. It makes me so uncomfortable to think about.

Yeah, you look really uncomfortable. I'm on the ballot too. It'll never happen for me. For the show, hot dog. Everyone, for your consideration, Matt Rogers, hot dog. The billboards are everywhere in Los Angeles. Everywhere.

My for your consideration ads are so annoying. It's like, we get it, we get it. No, but anyway, I do want to also shout out, you know, the human body is amazing. You know what else is amazing? What? Medicine. Because I am on a steroid right now that allows me to speak

to you. My God. And you got the prescription straight away? He didn't even give me a prescription. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. Hot straight doctor at the CityMD. And you know I'm on record as not being about CityMDs, aka they're like an antibiotic candy store.

So I basically was like waiting for him to say. They're a chain restaurant.a. they're like an antibiotic candy store. So I basically was like waiting for him to say... They're a chain restaurant, yeah. They're a chain restaurant. But I'm waiting for him to say, here's an antibiotic, here's a Z-Pak, I'm not even going to look you in the eyes once, just here's a Z-Pak, throw it at me and get the fuck out of here. They gave me a

shot of a steroid. It was a Gatorade. I don't know how to describe it. It was like a shot of Gatorade and there was a steroid in it and I took it and now I'm on a steroid. It was a Gatorade. I don't know how to describe it. It was like a shot of Gatorade and there was a steroid in it and I took it and now I'm on a steroid. How does it feel? Fucking fabulous. And he just flexed. Speaking of steroids and being gay, we want to

I'm not saying anything about this NFL player but we want to congratulate this openly gay NFL player. What's his name? Carl Gibb? Carl Gelib? I didn't really. I said good for him. I said good for him. I guess doesn't this feel like

I'm having deja vu to Colton Underwood in a way. They're not the same. They're not the same person. It's not the same situation at all. Are they not? I don't know. I mean, until Carl does my favorite Amazon products to help me feel pride. That was the funniest that I've read in years. Hold on.

What did it say? Hold on. It was like, what are your favorite Amazon buys? And we should say, I did text our group that about it. And Bowen immediately said, unfortunately, a publicist wrote this. Which very illuminating for me. Good job, Bowen, seeing all the Pepsi cans as it were. Yes.

Oh, no. My go-to water bottle is Voss. These are great for me when I'm entertaining or when I have guests over. Voss water bottles are great for me when I'm entertaining or having guests over. So we can say that sometimes when he has guests over, he's not really entertaining.

Ba-boom. Wow. Sure. Okay. Reebok Club C 85 Pride shoes. There's nothing better than a fresh pair of white sneakers And these are the Reebok pride shoes I like them not only because they're white But because they've got a little pop and a little flair And that's essentially me

I like to be clean but also have a little flair And a little dazzle These are great shoes I mean it's a haiku it's wonderful It's poetry for sure To end on these are great shoes is inspiring. These are great shoes. She said, I love these because they're white, and that's a brave thing to say. Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Ooh!

As they say the world over. Ooh! Ooh! You know, we both had very straight weeks. You at a straight wedding, seeing a hot straight doctor, me being in what I think is maybe the straightest city in America. No, that's not true. I was going to say it's Savannah, Georgia,

but there's a very gay story that happens there, which is Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. But I mean, otherwise it's a pretty, it's Bachelorette Party Central. It's Bachelor Party Central. And therefore I would say it is a very hetero city. It felt very, it was very nice. I was there with my sister, my parents,

my nieces, my brother-in-law. Stressful to eat out every single meal with two children, I will say. Two young children. But it was a lovely time. My sister had a nice escape from Atlanta and my brother-in-law. They were due for one. The kids were due

for one. It was nice for the whole family to be together since the pandemic. All I'm saying is I don't think I love Savannah, unfortunately, and I do have to be public about that pandemic. All I'm saying is I don't think I love Savannah, unfortunately. And I do have to be public about that. Well, you gave it a shot. I gave it, I really gave it a shot. Well, you'll try anything once.

I took the ghost tours. I learned all about the bodies that are buried under every square. I learned about the Mercer Williams house, of course. I learned about the ghost of Flannery O'Connor, the racist ghost of Flannery O'Connor haunting a house. Yeah. All of these things. I love,

love, loved. I just don't think it's the city for me. And that's okay. I think I needed, I need to start recusing myself from a narrative of every city in America is a good city. It doesn't, cannot possibly be true because if every city is good,

then no city is good. Do you know what I'm saying? You know, then ever, then everyone would live in every city and be kid, simply be chaos. And we all know that's not the case. Oh, then no city is good. Do you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, then everyone would live in every city and simply be chaos and we all know that's not the case. Oh, I understand. You understand. But I think it's great that we sort of got some straight going

during Pride Month because the weekend of Pride is upon us. I got it out of my system and this is going to be a stressful week, but we're strapping ourselves in. And the straightness ends right now with this episode. I'm telling you that right now. The straightness ends right now, especially while we bring in our guest oh i can't i can't really believe the guest do you know what i mean in like a you know no i i actually i get exactly what you

mean i can't believe the guest do you know but like when i say the words i can't believe our guest do you do you know what i mean yeah i do and I sort of remember us sort of, I guess, I guess you'd say starting this podcast years ago and thinking we'll never get a guest like insert name of guest here. Our guest's name. He's just, he's had probably as prolific of a career as you could want as an exercise in futility to name all the credits and think, oh yes, we've encapsulated this whole man's career. We're not going to do that, but he's otherwise a bon vivant, a man about town, about the world,

owns the wonderful club coming in the East Village. To say that that place is your place, the power. Oh, my God. I stomped the boards of club coming many a time. People might remember in the great before, I was Catherine Cohen's sub. Whenever she wasn't there, I was there.

And it wasn't called Cabernet Cabaret, it was called Grigio Gig. And I got it going. And I think Alan Cumming would have been very proud. No, he would have been very proud. And look, it's back. We encourage everyone who is in New York City, if you're visiting, if you live here, to go. Give it a visit.

Wonderful shows happening every night. Wonderful bar experience. He's also the director of the new audible original hot white heist with an all-star queer cast including cynthia nixon mj rodriguez bianca del rio jane lynch tony kushner starring i can say his bone this sentence as if he's not in it. And me, I'm in it. It's led by Bowen Yang, who is a talent, a queer talent. But the queerness, he supersedes it. You know what I mean? He's international.

International star. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. And who else would be an international star if not me would be our guest. Everyone, please welcome into your ears Jesus Christ,

Alan Cumming! Alan. Thank you, boys. Hello, Bo and Yang and Matt Rogers. Wow. We were talking before about how good it is to hear him say your name and then he said my full name for the first time.

And oh boy, it was like a damn bad. It's just wonderful. Worth it. Worth the wait. You're joining us from an opal mine. Tell the listeners, the readers, where you're from. Where the hell you are. Where you're coming from.

Yeah. I'm in Australia, in South Australia. I'm in Adelaide. I'm an artistic director of the Adelaide Cabaret Festival. So I'm doing sort of pop-up Club Cummings, actually. It's such fun. DJ, and then we have performers. It's such fun.

And then I'm doing my own concert show at the end of the festival. But I came here to this place called Cooper PD. And ironically, I just did Anderson Cooper's show before you guys. Irony. But it's called Cooper with a B. And it's an old opal mining town. And everybody lives underground because it's so hot in the summer. So I'm actually in a hotel that is underground.

And you just see these little kind of funny poles sticking out everywhere. And that means there's a little air hole going down to some little person. I know all the facts. 1,700 people live in this town. 70% of them live under fucking ground. That's insane. There's an element of danger here's there's an element of danger here there's an element of danger what's our do you feel safe i'll say well the thing is i can go out

into my corridor and look left and i can see daylight so it's not i don't feel quite so bad but that's that's unusual yesterday i was in an opal mine uh i was in an opal shop i mean i mean an underground mine sorry an underground shop underground shop, an underground cafe, an underground cinema. I did the whole thing. An underground church, an underground Serbian church. It's a city of moles. It's just so weird.

There was a weird Serbian priest ranting at this little Italian man who was a tourist, telling him who, what do you call him, Leonardo da Vinci was. I nearly intervened. He didn't know? Well, I don't know. He couldn't get a word in edgeways.

And I just was like, I was about to say, leave the boy alone. Yeah, leave the boy alone. Let him be. But they kind of wandered off. But it's been great. Like, you know, it also is, they shot a part of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert here. You know, it's got that weird outback sort of an industry town

where the industry is kind of almost gone and they're sort of pushing the tourist thing it's just a mishmash of crazy i love it i love it so then the history and the culture doesn't reach down there and that's why this person didn't know leonardo da vinci you can't blame him well yeah he was from italy he was from italy he was a little italian that's the thing i was like he's a little italian. And if little Italian boys nowadays don't know Leonardo da Vinci, we've lost something as a culture. If the little Italian boys today know Luca

better than da Vinci, there's something wrong in the culture. There's something wrong. Showbiz. Did you see who won the Eurovision Song Contest this year? It was Italy, wasn't it? It was Italy with a song, with a rock and roll song, and the man snorted a line of coke off the table, apparently,

allegedly. And my favorite thing is when they come to win the Eurovision Song Contest, they have to say something to the world. And he went, rock and roll never dies! He was right. What do you think of sort of like Eurovision sort of, because I'm imagining you're a fan, what do you think of sort of like eurovision sort of or because i'm

imagining you're a fan eurovision pivot to sort of not honoring pop music as of late it feels well i think that was just i think that's more like the italian one obviously was a freak i think it's the fact that the public get to vote now right i don't think that's wrong i don't think they should i think it should be the weird little judges yeah um and because like the weird little judges voted that little austrian cute austrian boy with the sort of falsetto which is much more what i think of as a eurovision winner yes and then the general public block voted for the italian rocker alleged cokeheads so i don't know i'm a big fan of eurovision i've i up with it. I'm very influenced by, I think, in my eclecticism and my, you know, lack of respect for sort of normal pop groups.

I think you should all have some quirk. And also my embrace of tacky pop songs. That's my thing. I keep saying this to people in Australia. And at Club Cumming, one of my things about getting older, you know, in my 50s, I a dj and a barman part-time and i think both those things are about as you were saying about the lubricant it's both both those things are my ways of encouraging people to let go and just have fun

and not care what people think and be and be judged and so i uh i think like for example i put on some eurovision hits during my DJ sets in Adelaide, and I like it when people just let go and dance. They're actually, in Australia, they're good at letting go. In America, not so much. And what about in the UK? In the UK, better. They're better, yeah. Because the whole sort of thing of Eurovision

is quite a good sort of metaphor for it. And also, like, you know, pantomime that we have at Christmastime where the concept of drag and cross-dressing and things like that and our gender play is much more. So those things are more in the mainstream culture. And I think that helps people. They don't feel that they're going to be judged for being too sissy or whatever, you know, for when they dance to certain songs. So Americans are the struggle. They're the challenge. It does feel like the pop... When I was growing up and discovering, even the late night,

Graham Norton and everything like that, I was always envious growing up here that the pop culture seemed gayer. It all just seemed a lot more flamboyant. Then, as you get older and you understand

the government in England and everything like that, it is very rather conservative. So I think, like, it's probably, it probably feels, maybe it's the grass is greener thing. I don't know. I think it is that. But no, I think you're absolutely right. It is gay.

It means it's queerer. It means, you know, queerness is more in the mainstream of culture. And I just think that's something that's, yes, it's a conservative government. But I think over years just in our you know as like i guess i mean maybe from shakespeare's time the concept of men dressing up as women maybe it comes from that you know that that's yeah partly i'm sure that's helped but um even with race as well like i we often watch um you know i've got one of those oh i shouldn't say this it's not allowed but you know those things that you can pretend to be somewhere else

when you're not sort of VPN things it gives you a fake IP address as everyone has oh you're scared about talking about VPNs ooh Alan dangerous

now we know how to we know how to probe with danger here well anyway I watch BBC iPlayer and you know British shows quite a lot and it's so fascinating

in the commercials Grant my husband i was he was really remarking on this that how much more integrated race is as a concept like it's not like here when in america rather when it feels like oh here's the black people commercial you know what i mean oh we're doing there's some asian people in this commercial now whereas in britain it genuinely feels like this is there's it's just all mixed and it's just like it's much more i think we've gone we're sort of post trying to be make a point about it and it's just actually reflective of of the culture and i think um i think that's the same with queerness as well actually in terms of it being more integrated there yeah yeah anytime let's in

terms of like let's just say racial diversity it's like anytime there's a you're presented with the image of a group of people like on a college campus sitting together and it's all different races like there's something about there's something about that presentation that suggests that it is forced in a way or that it is underlining how diverse this is

in a way that is like but wait this kind of yes and it's too aware of itself and so therefore it's too aware of itself and so therefore it sort of breaks, it sort of defeats the whole purpose of like touting what it's supposed

to represent. Right, right. I think that's a lot of stuff in America that people do, you know, it's interesting being away from it a little bit

and looking and thinking that, you know, there's a sort of way that people know that they, and that's what was interesting about the past four years is that we sort of know that people know that they, and that's what was interesting about the past four years, is that we sort of know how we're supposed to behave or how we're expected to behave and what is proper.

But actually, a lot of the time, we're paying lip service to it. And during Trump, that changed and people didn't pay lip service to it anymore. So I think it's good that we push these things because obviously there's a long way to go and there's a lot of danger ahead potentially but i think we have to find a better way of doing it so it doesn't feel uh disingenuous like like you're saying it's actually funny because like literally like right before we got on i realized there's a connection between this week's episode and last week's episode which is we had busy phillips on who's obviously the best friend

of michelle williams and i was telling her that i saw opening night of when you guys did the revival yeah and so i saw you just absolutely i mean your performance of a lifetime etc you've heard it win the tony award come on now all that but you truly were stunning but i was thinking about how i really actually did not know i said to sudi who i went with i was i was really bad i didn't understand because i think i had only seen the movie cabaret once when i was younger and so i didn't really understand that it was going to be as dark as it was and as sad as it was and as about nazis as it was to be honest with you and so i was thinking after like you know obviously that musical depicts a culture that is very liberal and like sort of you know seems to be honest with you and so i was thinking after like you know obviously that musical depicts

a culture that is very liberal and like sort of you know seems to be extremely progressive and free and then the darkness is right around the corner so i just that's such an interesting thing that it's been a part of like such iconic work that you've done too that very well yes i think i've done you know and other other things i've done as well, actually, they're about, I feel my thing is like, don't, and I always say this, I was just talking about pride with Anderson Cooper prior, sorry to keep name dropping. We don't know who that is. We don't know who that is, though.

Yeah, we're not familiar with her. He and I are part of the Silver Fox Mafia. We're taking over the world. Oh, sure. But no, about how I feel you've got to be vigilant you know that because it is we are perilous we are in a perilous situation sure great strides have been made but look how quickly look how quickly it happened with trump when all of a sudden trans people are the devil and all these things and you know and look all these things have happened and our rights

are being eroded were being eroded in many ways and it's a struggle to get them back and i think that's the fact that that was and you know if he'd got in again i am so i was getting death threats by the end of the by the in the campaign you know regularly on on instagram and stuff for posting anti-trump stuff and i started to feel uh scared and i if he got in again i was i would i don't think i would have lived in america anymore it would have been very hard yeah i mean it really it really did get to that point where it felt like it could be the end of the world there yeah totally and it could be easily like there's us now you know that thing definitely that that he hadn't been virulently homophobic but it was definitely obviously on the cards anyway we've got to be vigilant and i think a lot of these a lot of the work i've done is about that about sort of celebrate here's a

situation oh but look how much it hasn't changed i did a movie called any day now about a gay couple in the 70s trying to adopt this little down syndrome child and that was about like it was a beautiful film but it was also when we came to do it to promote it i was like well you know this hasn't got that much easier you try from you try adopting a child in this state adoption system when you're queer these days you know there's lots of gay people with kids luckily they can afford to have a surrogate or go a different route and so there's we just have to be vigilant and not rest in our laurels and i think that's what i slightly worry about pride as well that it's like and actually you think you know maybe we're should we not have we should we should hope for the day

when we don't need pride yeah sure between me and man our friends we've all talked about how the meaning of it or the whole ceremony around it is just changes over time and every year and it's like what does it even mean like i mean like i remember a time when pride was for me it was literally about like oh my god like this is like the first time i'm seeing like queer people together you know like and now it's such yes but that's what it's good for and that's why you know old you know assholes like me should stop saying things that because it's for people who don't have the outlet to do that and i think that's great i don't have a chance to do it and i once i went on a gay cruise i performed on a gay cruise and it was the most crazy thing I've ever done

it was like a bath like I had to go down the stairs to the stage I kind of got on in St Lucia and they'd all been on for like about five days and I got taken down to the where the stage was and it was all through the little the lower cabins the lower floors cabins and it was like on every door I had it was like they're almost like their grinder profile on every door and the doors open and little you know little hints of what you might see when you went in photographs like the red light district bomb the ocean totally totally hilarious and i was a bit like oh my god just trying to get to the same anyway i did my concerts and then what i thought was lovely about it was that there was people on that boat from all parts of america who don't have

bar who don't live in new york and can't go to a bar that you can, you know, whatever can happen in the back room or, or they don't have that, those kinds of options. And so it was so exciting and liberating for them to be on that boat and to feel safe to be able to do all that. And I think that's what pride is good for.

But my, I think my overall worry is about the, obviously the corporation that, you know, the corporate sort of takeover of it, and the fact that people think, oh, that's fine, we've done Pride now. We've done the queers. We've done our service to the queers this year.

We've all put on a rainbow hat and got drunk. And I feel that's my worry, that that kind of diminishes or perhaps impedes our progress. Sure. Are you experiencing any FOMO at all of New York? Are you at all experiencing any anxiety from being away from New York this particular summer?

Not really because I'm having such fun. I'm basically doing New York and I'm doing Club Coming In. I'm dressed in a monkey suit dancing around to tacky pop songs, banging drumsticks and bringing people. There's such great performers here that are hilarious. Do you know Hans?

Remember Hans the German who was on American Idol? He's this Australian man who dresses up as a sort of, in lederhosen and glitter. And he lives in Adelaide. So he's been doing great things. He actually did with Henry, they did a Tchaikovsky-sky britney spears accordion mashup oh that is so i have to say that is the most henry thing i've ever heard we have to tell the readers

because they're going to be so excited to know so henry is obviously a dear friend of the show we love and a beloved ex-boyfriend of mine but dear close friend also my musical director as well um but he's with you there he's and you said he's on the other side of that opal wall yes he's in he's come with me to the opal place to kubra pd so he's like just a door down uh and we're waiting for me to finish this so we can go on this plane but he's my musical director for the and he does like for my concert but also he's the musical director and we have a band at club coming in the spiegel tent and what i love is my favorite thing is I DJ and then the band plays along and I just dance around and I just I dance for like hours on end and often in a rabbit suit, often different suits. And then, you know, stuff like that is such fun. So I actually don't have FOMO about New York because I feel I'm getting my fill here.

And yeah, I mean, I miss I love when I see the pictures from Club Cumming. But yeah, no, I'm actually pretty, pretty sated. But I mean, I mean, pictures from Club Cumming. I'm actually pretty sated. It'll be nice to get back. I often think that having fun is a choice and I have a feeling about you that you make that choice to have fun a lot. Totally, Matt. Yes, I absolutely do.

I think it's really interesting. I think happiness is a choice, actually. I really do. Not that I dismiss any kind of depression or mental illness. I've suffered that myself hugely in the past. But I actually, yeah, I definitely feel I've made a choice to live. You know, I always say this slightly sort of hallmark cards kind of thing. But it's true that I have great access to darkness, but I choose to stand in the light.

And I think that's, and also that darkness helps me in my work a lot but you know that's why i don't really like actors i mean i don't really like hanging out with actors you know because they talk about acting all the time and i find that just immensely boring i'd rather just do it do it and go home yeah go out and have fun years ago i did this play bent do you know that play it's about gay people in the in actually i have i've heard of the play yeah i don't think i can't say i know it but i know of it it's an amazing play by martin sherman and actually in a funny way he actually kind of brought to the world's attention the the fate and the and the lot of uh queer people in under nazism like and this is a play about a man going to a concentration camp and and pretending

to be Jewish because you'll get treated better if he's Jewish than if he's gay. And it's, you know, it doesn't end well. It's a really bleak play. I did this in London a few years ago and I made a point of, and it was all these boys,

it was totally all men cast, lots of Nazis and blah, blah, blah and horrible. And it was me and this other boy with the people in the concentration camp. And we, and I just knew if I did not like leave it behind and have fun I would go demented so I did I had to actually had the best time even though it was the bleakest most despairing thing to do I left I finished the play and I walked off stage and I just like give me a drink where are we going and we all had really and I think that's really important to do that

I've heard that a lot yeah that about people that do dark work that they need to i mean they need to have aggressive fun while they're doing it absolutely i remember joan collins if i may drop another name you know you know who told me bobby de niro um joan collins said joan collins came see it's like alan how do you do this every evening how do you go through i said by not talking about it afterwards john yeah no but how do you do it as a john by not talking about it afterwards so immediately i was like don't want to discuss this you've seen it obviously it's harrowing obviously right like really in tune but now i'm not doing that anymore and i think it's like that thing about you have to choose you have to also you can choose to have fun you can choose

to have happiness you can also you have to choose when you're not working as well and i think it's like that thing about you have to choose you have to also you can choose to have fun you can choose to have happiness you can also you have to choose when you're not working as well and i think that's something like you know like last night in this little place in the middle of nowhere like people came up to me during dinner and i was like oh no i'm not going to take a photo i'm actually just having dinner with my friend like and you can say it in a nice way that means that you're that this is not an appropriate time yes to happen of course oh my gosh i always say that i always say to people i'm not going to take a photo of you because if i took a photo with you everyone would see and then everyone would want one and i'd have to do this all night long yeah thanks so lovely to meet you and they're like oh of course of course and that's actually just taking

the time to explain it to them and be nice and people really get it that's that's that's beautiful and i i of course this is like a time honed thing that you have like developed over the course of your career it's like you know how to like relay this information to these people yes

and it's just and the biggest thing I always think of my mom because it's just like just be nice it doesn't cost anything to be nice and actually there's no situation that works less well

than when you are nice in it so works less well than when you are nice in it so this fall on bravo it's time to turn up think you've seen it all i don't think you've been a good friend to me lately we're friends like that who needs enemies you ain't seen nothing yet cheers to being dramatic with the real housewives of potomac oh my gosh can i take this in it's gonna be amazing new york city everyone is a gossip no one gets a happier life. We don't wear costumes, we wear fashion. You broke the rules and now you're here getting upset.

Watch all new seasons on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13

to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image and huge life transformations. I was a desperate, delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble I encourage delusional dreamers be a delusional dreamer just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer I just had such an anger I was just so mad at life everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine I had such a victim mentality I took zero accountability for anything

in my life I was the kid that if you asked what what, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean.

He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well.

Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and basketball hall of famer. I'm a mom and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories

about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the shit we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to levels to this with Cheryl swoops and Tarika Foster, Brasby and I heart women's sports production and partnership with deep blue

sports and entertainment. You can find us on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast presented by elf beauty, founding partner of I heart women's sports. You told me this story when we were recording Hot White Heist of when you... Am I allowed to say this?

When you and a certain actor on a certain movie went to a nude beach. Yes, you can say that. I feel like you are inheriting something from Serene McKellen. Yes. When you guys were shooting X2 yes where were you it was like germany or something or it was no it was canada

in vancouver canada it was vancouver and then okay so then so that you guys just don't tell the story i i love this story and the thing is like we i he came on my podcast that you did recently uh i'm incoming shelves and he talked we talked about it because the thing each week i have a thing you know that i take my shelves and the thing that i actually there was two things the thing one of the things was a little dog necklace made from hemp that he'd bought for my dog at this nudist beach and the other thing was a little a little uh bracelet that had my name on it that this the film that we were working on another film actually the little the daughter of the director i was making beads with her one day and her mom said oh she's finished the necklace and she wants to give it to you but

she spelt your name wrong i was like oh that's charming even more it said anal instead of anyway this ian story was we were shooting x-men and he's i always think of ian mccullough as like a 14 year old girl trapped inside an 80 year old manold man's body. Yeah, I read, yeah. And he said to me, you know, we were living quite close to each other on this place called, oh, I can't remember. What was it called? Never mind. But it was near the beach and further along to the west was a nudist beach.

And he said to me, oh, apparently, I just read in the newspaper, there's a nudist beach. I said, oh, yeah, that's right. It's called Wreck Beach. I've heard about it, too. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yes, I should. A couple of days later, oh, apparently, I read this thing about a nudist beach.

I said, yes, you said that the other day. He wanted to go. Yeah. And then eventually it was like, oh, well, someone told me they'd been to this nudist beach. I said, do you want to go to the nudist beach? And then he went, well, if you want to go, don't know i'll go with you like that i was like let's go so we go and you have to walk down this lovely sort of verdant little path and then you come to this lovely beach and there's all like big you know tree trunks have washed up on it and you

can sit against someone and then ian went in the podcast he was good and i went down there and no one had a stitch of clothing on. I was like, no, it's a nudist beach. And so we got naked and he just had a little sort of, like a little hat that like cricket umpires wear, you know, one of those straw hats. I've got my dog, we're walking along, me and him. And it's so funny because when you get,

when you're naked and you get recognised, it's a really funny thing because people look at your face and then they immediately drop their heads down to look at your junk you know it's it's immediate and it's sort of it's hell areas and ian was like hello everybody it's gandalf he was like that absolutely loving it and then there was a guy came to to sell us little pipes you know there was all you could buy pot cookies and everything and this man had made homemade pipes on a piece of string around his waist and he was naked ian and i were sitting down and ian was like couldn't may i see that one and so the guy's coming close he's a penis level to our faces and i'm like ah and ian's like oh it's a lovely one don't like that one no it's like buy it it was such a gasp. That is so funny.

I think that's a great story because it makes me think, oh, wow, Alan Cumming and Ian McKellen were these two gay actors on set for this, like, big blockbuster movie back in a time when, like, I don't know, like, I mean, I don't know that this was... Well, there weren't so many and this wasn't really part of the conversation.

I mean, I'm not talking about this in terms of, like, a representation thing. I'm just saying like, there's just, obviously there's a shorthand when you, when you, when you run into another queer person on in a work environment like that. Yeah.

Yeah. Totally. And just, I don't know, like, like what, what was it like for you guys? Uh,

well, it was, that was the gay, that was the gayest film I've ever been on actually. Cause you know, it was, well, X2 is fucking amazing.

It is, it is the crown jewel and the orange is so good in it too and it is inherently queer because of its X-Men it's an allegory of queerness all the little mutants singing and there's even a scene where he has to come out as a mutant to his mum

and of course Bryan Singer and some other people the writers and everything aside from the actual content of it, had a very queer sort of sensibility. But I mean, I think now, like, you know, like telling that story now, it's got such a different thing. It's like, ah, ha, ha, you know, quirky, quirky Alan, quirky Ian, whereas then it would have been a bit more like subversive, weird or what they're doing. That's kind of, we don't, you know, that that's changed the way that think people and even i think the way that people understand queerness and understand

even things like you know about monogamy and stuff or lack of in the queer community and how there's different rules and relationships that i think is much more uh prevalent now the idea and just taking that concept and i think and in a funny way i think you know when when all the marriage equality thing happened uh one of the things i said in a statement was i think actually queer people have a lot to teach straight people about relationships and about how to maneuver them and and and i think that's true i still do i think that's very true they would be a lot happier if they let go of the whole idea of because it is a very patriarchal like yeah they're in a prison I mean really because and I think that there's a lot of unhappiness

especially amongst like you know that like baby boomer generation in America because and I think there's a lot of alcoholism because of it I think there's a lot of like repression in that in that demographic because they're too married literally to an

idea that's not and they've been fed this thing that my thing i think is really off i think it's awful is that one thing one whatever you call it indiscretion or one part of one one way you've failed in this vow because in this pact that's basically what it's saying if you fail at all then the whole pact is over like i remember when my brother got divorced the first time and it basically when i you know i was like what so what you kind of something happened one night when you're away and for one you know and then your whole life crumbles the union is over now yes and and um and i think that's the thing that that's that's what that is so damaging. And so what happens, of course, is people just repress it and do it and lie.

And, you know, that I think is much worse ways of betrayal than actually discussing how you feel about the notion of it happening and how you'll all gather together again after it happens and be fine with it happening. I just think they're fed this Hollywood ending of how life should be. And we, we, everybody knows that sort of shit yet. They continue to buy into it. It's remarkable.

It's weird. The indulgences that are allowed, you know what I mean? It's like, it's, it's just, it's when you take, if everyone were to take a step back and look at it all,

it would look odd because it's odd. I know. And I think that's what um i thought was so great about um hot white high school and bringing it back to bo and yang is that is that and adam our dear friend adam goldman who wrote it brilliant manages to get so many issues i suppose you'd call them but so many many, like the, like the, you know, queer people not being monogamous, I would say mostly, or it's much, much more of a comfortable concept to talk about in queer culture. That putting things like that and other, other kind of, you know, queer life things into a very funny script, very casually and not very, not, and not clunkily. I thought you did such a good job of that i can't believe how i've listened back to it a couple times to be honest and i don't usually i

don't ever do this with with my own things um especially especially i mean okay this is just me saying this and this is something that adam keeps pointing out to me he's like no bowen you're in every scene yeah i'm like oh right like i am am really, this is the first thing that I've done where I've like really like anchored something. And I, and I should, I should just say that like, like producing,

making like a scripted podcast. Like, I just think, I just think the word podcast gets, get like, just like kind of makes, frivolizes the whole thing because it is not an easy thing to do. You know,

it's just huge. Like the sound design and the, you know, and it's just huge. The sound design and it's like it's all these things happening on a train and you're going on top of a carriage and it's a huge... It felt to me like I've made some films before. I've never done anything like this. I did not expect it to be anywhere as detailed

and have such high production values as it did because that's the world we live in. And I think it excellent there's that guy jeremy was such a genius oh jeremy genius yeah our sound designer but um yeah but i i would leave those days sometimes and be like oh my god that was a long day like that was a lot of work and alan like really directed me in such a in such a perfect way because alan do you remember so the first day so matt you'll like this and hate this the first day the first scene we do we do a couple takes of this one scene and then alan's like really like giving me these great notes and he's and then at one point he's just kind of like figuring out what he wants to how he wants to present the note and then in a lull i go you know um you can just give me the line read if you want it's just like

the way everyone does it at snl and then alan like very politely chuckles and he goes oh that no that's okay and like proceeds to do his job which is to direct me and he's just like actually like giving me the respect respecting the process enough and respecting me enough to be like no i'm not gonna like tell you feed you how to do it i'm gonna actually get you there organically and like i just i just like forgot i was just in such a like fresh out of snl space that i was like no just do it just do it the late i was just being so lazy because you just you you you had the like you put on the situation like oh we need to get it in now we got to move like exactly you're at a time crunch at all times right i've noticed that what i can is that what they do snl they just kind of like give you line readings all the time

well i mean not all the time but it's like like if you hit a wall if something's just not working and it kind of rests on this one thing it's you're not supposed to be offended and no one ever is if someone's just like just do it like this and then they'll be like could i be anymore i'm using a friend's line but like could i be anymore blah blah blah so it'll be like, could I be anymore? I'm using a friend's line, but like, could I be anymore? Blah, blah, blah. So it'll be like that. And so that was just, I mean, even that, like, you know, even working on Hot White Heist was just like a reminder of how this process usually works when it's not in like this crazy pressure cooker.

Right, yes, yes. And it was just, it was just so pleasant. Oh, that's nice. I'm so glad I didn't give you the line reading. That'd be terrible. I always, I always think it's, it's sort of like one of those things, like one of the reasons why I don't really like

hanging around with actors because it always becomes sort of moany about bad things that have happened to you. So like, oh my God, he gave me a line reading. Like things like that. It's not that bad. Yeah, no. I know it's not that bad actually,

but there have been times when I've just said, I actually, just tell me what it is you actually mean because i just can't get it you're not explaining it well enough to me right so just tell me you do it and then i'll do it my way and make it better being out there you go wait i i do want to like just to quickly just to touch on something we were talking about a little bit earlier because now i'm really thinking thinking about it and marinating in it like you talk about the stuff that you've done and then also like when you actually think about some of bowen and i's truly favorite movies of all time you happen to appear in quite quite a few of them and they are i think some of and i say this in the most

beautiful and in the most in in the best way dumbest movies ever like spice world like we i i fucking we love and also like if you can find a way that for us to be able to see it you can't find it online or on streaming so please let us know space world no just just in the just in the pussycats wait no one of the most ahead of ahead of its time movies of all time josie and the pussycats love that film yeah i love that film what you wait which one can't you see spice world is like very hard to find yeah and it's crazy too because especially during pride month it feels like it feels like a aggressive and it's not like those girls to not market themselves up the wazoo they've been on packs of crisps for years i mean you'd think they would be the best and also like victoria beckham

like did her 73 questions like um she she made a joke about like i'm still waiting for my achievement award about that movie and i'm like yeah but you made a joke about like I'm still waiting for my achievement award about that movie and I'm like yeah but you make a joke but you're Victoria Beckham in Spice World

is high hilarious high success rate in every single one she was I think she's I thought she was such a funny girl

on that movie there was one there was one there was one thing she said and I thought she was kind of she played so much with the sort of being posh but she wasn't really pos one thing she said and I thought she was kind of she played so much with the sort of

being posh but she wasn't really posh do you know what I mean she's not posh but she kind of has assumed poshness as a sort of a right

sort of a she presents posh yeah she plays posh in the Eurovision song contest and she anyway

so one day when we were filming the film it was it was a long weekend, it was a holiday. And we were rehearsing a scene and we were eating our toast and blah, blah, blah. It's just all chatting as we're getting ready to rehearse. And I said, oh, what did you do this weekend, Victoria?

And she went, oh, I went with my boyfriend to the south of France. I said, oh, where did you go? And she went, Saint-Tropez. And I was like, are you go and she went Saint-Tropez and I was like I was like are you meaning to mispronounce it are you doing that just to be sort of like pretend posh make it a double on top I was just like whichever way I was like I'm loving it whichever way it works yeah and because they went to stay and then of course it's in all the newspapers so they went to stay with Elton John for the weekend and it was just crazy that time because the girls were it was the most the absolute apex of their spiciness and it was just

hilarious i learned the spice girls dance moves from the spice girls ah wow i know i know right that's it but you have but you have like really kind of um just you've been you've you've you are part of these things like like brumie michelle like i'm not another one i just think i just think you um you are just you are just a very important figure in all of these things and so we we we pay our respects and such you know it's funny like people your age um and probably and either you know a few years either side but people who are like saw spy kids for instance and i did this there's a spell like in the late 90s early 2000s so i did loads of those films of like kids films are a bit are like romans you know the x-men i was golden eye we're not going to forget about your golden eye where you

that's right with computer coolant falling on my head uh um i am invincible but i but there was i so the spy kids thing is meant but what's lovely about that is that in a way i was a sort of a magical part of a lot of people's childhood and there's this figure this character sort of and i think the fact he was slightly scary to start with but then he becomes a nice person and And so it's really, it really connects, like in a fairy tale character, actually, you know,

it really connects. And I remember the way that when, when people, young people came up to me, when, when it changed, when they were the generation that I'd grown up with spy kids and they, how they approached me as an adult,

it's with this kind of wonder and awe and sort of like, oh, you know, your little, like little kids faces again, not like 25 year olds. And when I was shooting this thing in Albuquerque a couple of years ago I I saw I came on the set one day and there was a boy a new camera assistant and he kind of did that face and I was like oh cutie

it's he's obviously freaking out because it's Mr. Fluke from Spike is but he can't see anything because it's like you know we're working anyway so I was coming back from my trailer one time and he was coming out the camera truck and he had his moment and he said to me he went oh alan i've been meaning to say i i was oh yes and he went you touched me a lot when i was a little boy never say that again yeah there's another way a lot the thing is he probably was thinking like when i get my moment what will i say say? And he arrived at that. And you're like, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, just don't say that in public. Yeah.

Or wait, hold on. I have a question. Do you know the answer to this? Are you a playable character in the GoldenEye video game? Yes. And I'm me. And I have once been me. And what was hilarious is that years ago,

when it first came out, I didn't know. It was in those days when I did GoldenEye, it wasn't now when you do one of those films, you sign all these, even if they're never going to happen, you sign all these things saying, Oh,

if I'm in the video game, I get blah, blah percentage. Yeah. If they make the toy of you, if they make the toy, yeah. It's all that.

I'll have to do X number of interviews to promote the toy, you know, all that stuff. And it didn't have that didn't happen. And all of a sudden there was just a game. Yeah. And we didn't know anything about it. Biggest of all time. Yeah. Yes all of a sudden, there was just a game. And we didn't know anything about it. Biggest of all time, yeah.

Yes. No royalties, darling. And anyway, one day, I found out about it. And I had an assistant called Landon at the time. And I came next to him and said, oh, my God, Landon, I'm in a video game. And he went, oh, yeah, I know. I've got it. I said, do you do?

And he said, yeah, if you piss me off, I go home and shoot you in the balls. Because apparently you can shoot me in the balls. And I still- I play as Famke Janssen and I shoot you in the balls. Do you really? I think it's so funny that you can, he queers for Pride Month. This is my gift to you.

The information that you right now can get an N64 and play as Famke Janssen and Alan Cumming and do a hand-to-hand combat fight. Oh my god, slappers only, slappers only. Well, this is interesting. How do you feel about this idea that like not a lot of people have on this side of like, you know, Hollywood or whatever, where it's like you have this intergenerational difference of people coming up to you and knowing you from a different thing oh i love it i think it's great i mean it's sort of really and then now it's you know from writing books and stuff and i love when people say oh i love club coming you know things like that i really i love and i used to sort of play a game when i would sort of

try and guess what was the thing they were going to say when i saw people come up to me and i got so bad at it i thought you know it's actually quite nice that i don't know because it sometimes confounds you that some little granny will come up and say oh i saw you know some crazy independent film about me doing something weird and so i actually like that diversity and you can't guess because there are too many things probably probably. There's too many things. And then also, I think what I was doing was like, oh, you know, like, for example, 24-year-old Spike, it's a guy with a kind of Iron Maiden t-shirt and long hair.

It'll be X-Men. I was making all these sort of stereotypical decisions. And then it's actually lovely to sort of be confounded. And you can tell a lot by age like you know the good wife's obviously a big thing right and also i host the you know this what you got to get them their masterpiece mystery i'm alan cumming and this is masterpiece mystery and that has a very definite specific demographic older older white people yeah but but not always you can be confounded it's quite nice i like it i like sort of older older white people yeah but but not always you can be

confounded it's quite nice i like it i like sort of uh and also i forget you know that's the other thing i i realized writing this new book i've got coming out i had to sort of research myself because i i had forgotten so much and luckily you can research yourself nowadays right you know it's as possible and i found out such a lot, but I forget. And that's why on my website, I really always, Matt, my assistant, I was like, we've got to keep the website updated because I want to not forget what I've done

because I did, I have had some very embarrassing incidents when I swore blind that I'd never worked with, like, for example, I never worked with Willem Dafoe. I thought, I love, oh my God, I would remember. He's so great. I'd love, I see him sometimes at parties. I think he's such an excellent, I'm just, oh, I never worked with Willem Dafoe. I thought, I love, oh my God, I would remember. He's so great. I love, I see him sometimes at parties. I think he's such an excellent, I'm just, oh, I'd love to work with him. I had done a film with him and had scenes with him.

And I totally forgot. You, you, you, you, Gwyneth Paltrow. Do you know, do you know where we're set? Do you know where we meet? Yeah, she didn't remember which film she was in. Yeah. That was Spider-Man. That was Spider-Man.

I wasn't in Spider-Man. But this is, but this is huge though. I mean, this is like what everybody hopes. I mean, not everybody, but like what a lot of people probably aspire to in terms of like... Having done so much that you forget what you've done. That you forget that you were in a film,

that you did scenes with Willem Dafoe? Absolutely. I know. Just like in Fire Island, I had these friends and they bought this house that belonged to the man who wrote Hello Dolly and everything. What's his name?

So Jerry Herman. Jerry Herman, yeah, yeah. So he had this big house in Fire Island. It was kind of legendary. You know, Angela Lansbury would go over and they would all sing by the piano. And my friends bought it and I spent some time in it. And it was like, and they'd totally redone it,

but there was one room, because the entire thing used to be zebra skin wallpaper. And so there was this little loo that was just zebra skin wallpaper. It was a leftover Jerry Herman loo. And on it, on the wall was like an award that he'd got, that he'd just forgotten and left behind. And I remember thinking, God, can you imagine like being,

like having so many awards that one of them is in your loo and you actually move house and forget it. But this is the thing. It's like, I don't know if that means that career isn't as important as we think it is, or if it just if that means that career isn't as important as we think it is, or if it just means that like... It isn't. Right?

Like, maybe that's the takeaway here. That like, you're not defining yourself by like being in a Willem Dafoe movie. No, exactly. And I think that, you know, I've noticed over the years that there's certain things, there's certain markers that you are encouraged to, you know, keep and celebrate. Like the first time you're on the cover of a and celebrate like the first time you're on the cover of a magazine or the first time you're above the title or all these sort of markers in your sort of business side of your work that you're supposed and people then send you pictures of things and so you end i've anyway ended up with like thousands of fucking pictures of me like

framed things yeah posters of films and which is nice initially but then it's like well what am i going to do with all these things you know it's ridiculous right and so then i've auctioned them off or given away and now i realize it's such an interesting thing that now i just i kind of keep just the ones that i like in in my little shed my gym shed upstate and it's actually a really good thing to exercise looking at images of your younger more beautiful self it's very it keeps you going wow but i think that is true i don't define myself by my work i actually really like my work but if like you know it's really fascinating i loved the experience the pandemic gave me which was to just do do other things and have the time to do other things and i was i was really i think it was one of the happiest years i've had in a

long long time was was to you know and i i think that's that was very heartening to me that i don't i didn't freak out because of uh work and i i like my work but you know i i i think that's also why i'm probably quite good at it i don't take it that seriously i care about it but i'm not it's not i'm not i don't get i don't yearn which i think is a very bad thing to do i just i keep myself open to the possibility of working with interesting people, but I don't sort of think, ah, in five years time, I must've worked with, you know, sure. Blah, blah. I think that's very, you've got, just got to try and be in the moment and focus on, focus on what you're doing, but also focus on fun as much as you focus on your work.

Well, even the way you talk about a lot of the stuff you've done, it seems like, it's not like you're not talking about the the content but it seems like it's like there was an experience attached to it that you seem to really treasure such as your time at the nude beach with ian mckellen like and then of course it's an afterthought that x2 was the best x-men but the content speaks to itself it's there it can be seen there you can see it but you don't we don't know the experience and that's something that dale right you know what is special for you that's great and actually you know that you know, that aside from that, you know, I had fun with Ian on the New Year's speech, but that was a terrible film to make. It was really, it was really, you know, it wasn't a happy experience. There's lots of weird shit going on and it was,

it was the set was very unhappy place and I hated it. I hated making it. And so, you know, there's that as well. And actually I think again again that's all the more reason that you should have a good time you know the the end product i've done a couple of films like that like i really think x2 is a great film and then i did this film titus with julie tamer that i think is really a great film but both those experiences were just horrendous and i don't think that the the excellence of those films is enough to merit the bad experience i had see to me yeah i mean i it's actually interesting like as i work more in the industry i realize more and more that what's on the screen actually has nothing to do with what the experience was and yeah you can see especially with film and tv just how much is you know uh made and edited and

lied about and you know know, things like that. It's just interesting. It's not, when you grow up wanting to do this, and I think that's, the quicker you find that out, the more you get the demystification of the whole thing. You know what I mean? I was that kid that, yeah, and I was that kid that, you know, I watched the Oscars and like,

I really bought into it and like really wanted to, did want to be part of the community of people that I was reading about and watching. And then you grow up and as you become part of the industry, you realize that's exactly what it is and that it is a lot of construct. And so that's why it is important to, you know, prioritize experience for yourself and life for yourself. And then I think what's really lucky about this is that it gets to take you to interesting places and you get to meet interesting people who maybe had that when they were young too. But only when you meet people that have figured that out and like seen all the Pepsi cans, as we say,

can you really figure out how to like enjoy it. Right. No, I think that's absolutely true. What I admire about you guys and your sort of group, and I see it happening, I saw it through club coming really is but this group of sort of young uh writer actor comedians there's a very strong sense of community and of support i think with each other and that's i haven't i think that's

really unusual i'm not unusual but it's uncommonly strong and seems really familial uh when i look at you lud well that's i mean whenever people are like um oh well i mean people will assume that It's uncommonly strong and seems really familial when I look at you, lad. Well, that's, I mean, whenever people are like, um, oh,

well, I mean, people will assume that like, you know, that, that, that we will know certain people through, um, the podcast,

but it's like, no, these are like relationships that we've built up over many years where we've seen each other really eat shit, like in, like in bar basements in Brooklyn. And like, you know,

like we, like I remember the first time i saw you know let's just say like patty harrison or katherine cohen or like whoever like we were not appear yeah performing at the level we were we just but we weren't even like even that good grade of performing we just wanted to get better at it and we all happen to start at the same you know water level and then now it's just a coincidence. It's a happy, wonderful, fortuitous thing that we're all like in, in the same neighborhood of like, of doing stuff. But, but I think, but I was going to say like, maybe, I mean,

I'm not the person to say what, to assign meaning to what you're, what you're doing these days. But like, I feel like club coming is this thing where you are, you are community building with, with that, that you know it's like a major way in a major way i think so and i really felt that when we did when the when the pandemic hit that one of the things that was apparent was that people needed a place to come even if we weren't over doing shows and so we you know we try and like during the uh black lives marches, like some of the staff were like, let's keep,

you know, they, they suggested, let's make it a safe space. People can come and get water and snacks and go to the loo. I remember that. I remember things like that are really important to, I realized how important it was just for our core group of both performers and audience that they knew it was still there and they could come and they would be able to feel the same.

The thing like, you know, like here when I do it in like at the Spiegel tent in in this festival i say you know i'll tell you a bit about club coming i say we have a motto all ages all genders all colors all sexualities everyone's welcome kindness is all and uh you know anything can happen and i think that's a great sort of just put that when you put that out there i think people uh come it's manifest itself because people bring that sort of message to it and i really did realize that that's why i worked sort of so hard early on when everyone was hit financially for all these you know they kind of

got the benefits and things that we made we had this thing called the club coming community chest and we got all these hilarious people to donate things to. So, and that was, I think, you know, I really did that because I felt like we do have a community and it's really important to make sure that we look after them. And if we can't nurture them in the way we normally do by paying them to

perform and, you know, doing that. Yes. Then we have to try and, you know, have to kind of think. So it was,

it was really, it's, I, and I take it very seriously, that sort of thing. Actually, I'm very concerned and, you know, have to kind of think. So it was, it was really, and I take it very seriously, that sort of thing. Actually, I'm very concerned about, you know,

I'm very conscious of things changing and what's, what's the mood and there's new people and how's that going? You know, the sort of the, the feel of it is really, cause it's supposed to, it's supposed to, it reflects me.

It's supposed to, it's my spirit really. And it does. It really does. It carries the light. It, when you go in there and like and the show is really popping off like it's like a love bomb is exploding it's so great and i i it feels

weird but like i want to thank you for it because it's like a truly like some of my first some of my last years because i moved to los angeles for work stuff but i i i think it's in the top three things i always say you know for me everyone's like what are you going to do now that you're back in new york and i'm back in new york for a month and i always say like it's more about people for me that i'm going to see when i come back here like i'm always like i always will associate bowen with it and our dear friend sudi and like our close friends but it's having this conversation right now makes me really anxious to get there again because i think it's i think it's my favorite spot i mean i'm so i'm so proud to be like a part of it and like it's my favorite spot. I mean, I'm so proud to be a part of it.

An alumni. So you're all the time in LA now? Yeah, and I think that the dream is to sort of bounce back and forth, you understand. Bicoastal. Bicoastal, as it were. But yeah, right now, yes. But I mean, I'm telling you, it's not replicable in LA, what that is. No, I know. Even outside of, I mean, it's telling you, it just, it's not replicable in LA what that is.

And I think that even outside of, I mean, it's just not replicable anywhere. I mean, I'm sure there are some places, but there was something about a packed room at club coming for a, for a comedy show, cabaret show, drag show, what have you, but energetically spatially, there was nothing like it. Yeah. Just, you just felt, and it's, it's i mean this is i don't know this is a little bit of a like a masturbatory thing to say but like it's where it's the it's

where i discovered quote unquote or met chloe fineman who later was like in my who's in my class at snl was like it was where i like saw her perform for the first time it's like oh my god who the fuck is this girl doing all these impressions she's incredible so many people and then now it's like and now and yeah so many people but it's like like look like it's like it this is the thing like but you you saying like um you know all ages all genders all sexualities a kindness is key like hopefully that brings people together of course it does it's a force in the world and people will will draw themselves to that and then and naturally this is what happens. It's actually really heartening

in terms of, you know, do you ever do things like, you sort of think, oh, I really want to do this. What do you call it? Creative visualization. I guess with Cub Coming, I did creative visualization. And also, when you talk about when something's about to happen and you talk about it

in the press or stuff like that, you can sort of creatively visualize in a more direct way by doing that but it is really um heartening to think that that's that's how it came about is that i just that's how i wanted to be and i just put that message out to the world also born was i was saying when i did um the other thing we have together coming out um shmigadoon. Yes. I creatively visualized that as well because it was like, you know, the end of the summer.

Yeah. And I'd spent, it's been lovely. I'd had a summer. I was up stuck, not stuck, in the Catskills with my lovely husband. And I was just like, this has been lovely, but I'd kind of liked a little break. Yeah.

I'd had a little break with my husband from, you know, making dinner every night and blah, blah, blah. And I've finished the draft of my book. I'm ready to, and blah blah blah and i've you know finished the draft of my book i'm ready to and i'd like to do a show not in america that's kind of america i'd like to show that it's an ensemble i don't have to get up every single day and i can be somewhere safe like canada where the people are kind and there's a plan boom the next thing i know oh you're good you've been asked to do this hilarious musical homage parody thing of 1950s

hollywood music was all these great people in canada in an ensemble thing yeah oh didn't have to put dinner every day visualize more i know i gotta put the intention behind it yes you know it always it always did you know it's so funny like you say like you're in la all the time now like there's something happened to me i think maybe it was the pandemic and also the move to LA where it's so much more like entertainment industry. Like I'm working during the day and I did lose that sort of like New York, like Jack, you know what I mean?

Like, and so like, it's just kind of, it's just fun to remember that that's a thing, like putting things out into the atmosphere really does work. I do believe that. Yeah, I know. So I, in my book, actually, I write a book to remember that that's a thing. Like putting things out into the atmosphere really does work. I do believe that. I know, in my book actually,

I write a book because I think it's too easy to be down on LA. If you're not an LA person and it's one of these places, I think it's quite sort of triggering or it's, you know, it's sort of,

what do you call that word? I'm going to say bipolar. Polarizing. Polarizing. Polarizing. And the thing is that i've i've lovely friends there i love going there but i don't ever i've never lived there i don't want to and i and and and i write about this i say that it's kind of like how i am if

you think about hershey pennsylvania where they make the chocolate which i do often and well matt matt loves himself theme park person so I love a roller coaster. Hersheyland, what is it called? Hershey Park. They've got some of the best roller coasters in the world. Do they really? And also, are you a big chocolate person, Matt? You know, I don't go there for the chocolate,

but I stay for the chocolate. I always think that LA must be similar to Hershey, Pennsylvania, because I bet there, everybody talks about chocolate all the time. Do you know what I mean? Because it's an industry time. And I think in there, everybody's talked about chocolate all the time. Do you know what I mean? Because it's an industry talent. And I think in LA, everyone just talks about work all the time. And when you think about it like that,

it's not so menacing. Right. But I just don't want to talk about work all the time. I said already, I'm not keen on gaggles of actors. That's like my worst nightmare. So the idea of being in an environment where like things like, I remember one time,

I was sitting at lunch years ago and this waiter came to me and I was like you just wanted to focus on my salad as Martha Stewart said and he said he said what Oh congratulations Alan I was like oh why you know people say that you think oh did I win an award and no one's told me and he went oh your movie made 19 million dollars this weekend and I was like how do you know that? And I don't. Do you know what I mean?

I thought it was awful. And bringing it up while you were eating. Thank you. Well, wait. I mean, okay. Matt and I, when we were visiting LA years ago, we met up with our friend. This is Jamie Salka.

But he told us, he was like, here's the thing about LA. Everybody loves it. And then we were like, here's the thing about LA. Everybody loves it. And then we were like, what about the people who hate it? He was like, they just don't know that they love it. They don't know yet that they love it. And I'm like, that is interesting. Atmospherically, I do love it.

When I say atmospherically, I just mean literal atmosphere. I love the weather being the same every day. I don't need a season. I mean, it's so boring like i think that's weird though i think matt that's like say what do you say what do people that means that nobody would live in iceland or or things do you know what i mean the thing is i would just go to iceland then but in terms of where i live like i want it to be like dry and this dry and hot and the same i get it i just think it's sort of i don't know i absolutely understand and but i'd also just think i find it kind of weird that the climate would be the most the best thing about somewhere i totally i totally get that and maybe i'll even

agree with you very soon and i'll turn my ass right around and find myself back in new york again it's just that the humidity doesn't help and there's the weather you can yes there's that but you can actually i, I love that, actually, I'm missing the wetness. But I think you can, you have to make your own life in LA. You're right.

Whereas in New York, you find it. And it's just a little more difficult to, in LA, you've got to, it's more, it's a,

well, you know, that thing about, it's all spread out city. There's no, the first time I drove in LA, I said, I'm going to find the center of LA.

There's not a center. No. And so that's the thing you've got to realize. Everything's more spread out and you've got to seek out a life. Whereas in New York, it just hits you in the face. And I think that's, I prefer that. And it's a journey.

And that's what's fun about it too. You're always going to have New York memories. Like there's not really LA memories. You know what I mean? Like there can be, but like New York is alive in a way that every day is a curve ball. And in LA, it's just, you're less of an adventurer in LA.

You just are. But also, at the same time, I always think if I lived in LA, I would probably end up in a gutter with a prostitute on my face and a needle in my arm. Which isn't too bad. It has its benefits. But do you know what I mean? I think that actually, in New York,

I think there's slightly reprisal. The thing that everybody goes to bed so early and gets in early and everything like that. And you have to really look for after hours fun as well. And so it's slightly, I don't know, whereas in New York, that's like a part of living. It's a sort of celebrated part. Whereas there, it's a little repressed

and it's sort of, that's what I mean. I think I would end up in some, you know, weird environment. You would swing, you would swing so hard the other way, but I, but I've never heard someone distill it this way where in LA you make your life and in New York you find it. I think that's the perfect way to like,

to, to defrase it. Before we ask you the question about what culture made you say culture was for you. I want, you were talking about sets earlier. I just want to know what was it? What was the set of Josie and the Pussy earlier i just want to know what was it what was

the set of josing the pussycats like yeah we need to know that we need some we need to know about our favorite movie but it was a hoot because um well the girls were so young i talked to rosario about this recently like she turned 21 during that film wow 21 and the others were about the same age and they were just like these three-week things. Actually, I remember one thing, this thing about work and LA and everything. I remember it was when we were shooting that, what do you call Goldie Hawn's daughter?

That lovely Kate. Kate Hudson. Kate Hudson was on the cover of Vanity Fair because she was in that Cameron Crowe film. Yeah. And I remember the three girls were like, oh, they were fascinated by this cover. And I remember one of them said, gosh, who's her publicist? Like that. And I thought the three girls were like, oh, they were fascinated by this cover. And I remember one of them said, gosh, who's her publicist?

Like that. And I thought, oh, they were already being sucked into that thing. How can I make that happen to me? And so it's interesting. But they were lovely. I remember one time we talked about Lauren Bacall in the makeup bus

and none of them knew who she was. I thought, fail, fail. That's okay. They were in their early 20s. Come on. No, it's not okay. We were probably eight and knew who she was i thought that's okay they were there they're in their early 20s come on no it's not okay we were probably eight and knew who yeah i know they're making their actresses in film anyway i i um told them but my um and also favorite thing was like there was one time where uh uh little um melody the character played by Tara Reid and you know

because at the time she was going out with what's his name they were engaged there was a whole joke in the film about that you know Carson Daly

they were a big hot item we were all going to go to their wedding after the film finished that didn't happen alas

anyway Tara there was something where we were doing a scene it was late everyone was a bit tired

it was a night shoot and there was a little bit of conflict going on on the set with one of the directors and the girls and blah blah and we got back to makeup and they were all being upset about it i was like girls you just got to like you know everyone's tired yeah just like you know just say okay i'll do it that way and do one take like that and then just do it the way you want to you know just you know just you have to kind of take a little bit but don't make it don't make a bad great lesson great lesson all this stuff and uh and tata was crying because it's okay for you alan

they respect you but really they won't let me give melody any creativity that's so cute you wouldn't let melody get any creativity a kiss wherever you are yeah that that that movie also features one of Bon and I's favorite performances ever committed to celluloid, which is Parker Posey in that film. Just tremendous. I mean, that was just a dream piece of casting. And also, I love Parker so much. And also, we were the two oldest people in the film.

I was only like 35 when I shot it. And when Parker left, she was finished wrapped earlier. I was the oldest person on the film i was only like 35 when i shot it and when parker left she was finished wrapped earlier i was the oldest person on the film can you imagine at a cool 35 at a cool 35 i'd be like these fucking kids like i wouldn't like be that self-conscious about me i'd just be like no i'm doing great and these fucking amateurs are figuring it out as well yeah it's just felt like oh i'm in one of these films yes but no it was it was a hoot parker was you know she's hell areas i've got some pictures that i took of her during that film my first parker my first parker posing movie and then through that movie i discovered like all the christopher guest things house of yes like that was like my gateway into like that

world of cinema where i was like oh my god this is a little like lane this is like a little like pocket of of movies for me and like it took something as like, you know, candy coated as Josie and the Pussycats, which I still believe is like a satirical film. It's saying something about the culture in a way that was not said at the time. And I still think it has something to say. And like when we were saying up,

so Matt has said a metaphor earlier, look for the Pepsi cans. It's just literally like what the whole movie is, which is emblazoned branding on everything. And like now, like, you know, now we talk about it.

It's kind of a hackneyed thing now to talk about how corporations are ruining pride. Of course they are. But it's like, that was like in the year 2000, like giving you this thing where every single surface was covered in a logo in a way that was so funny and like ironic. Yes.

It's so good. It was like a parody of itself almost as well which yes you know what else is a parody of itself was um the spice film yeah absolutely people were so and the reviews of it were so like this is bad it's like you don't understand this is camp and i feel like at that at that time they just were i think maybe american critics were kind of like unaware of the fact that there was maybe they just didn't want to give the movie any credit for being camp or maybe they just didn't understand I don't think American people understand camp they do not actually properly in the way they're not you know yeah yeah I mean it's sort of I think people think camp as they don't think of it as wit to think of

it as like someone wearing a feather bow and glitter no no no and I think that's the thing like that from the literary tradition and the and also sort of the repret the idea of a repressed having to repress a message but get the message over using a sort of almost a hidden language that's what i think of as chaos and that's what american people i think you know just in it's i don't mean to bash america but there's you know irony there's a bit of an irony bypass in general, which permeates all culture. And I think that it's getting better. And of course, in certain pockets, it's absolutely there.

But it's not as in the mainstream as much as it is in other cultures. Showbiz. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City are back. I love that. I love that. Oh, my gosh. Welcome. And last season's drama was just the tip of the iceberg.

You're recording us? I am disgusted. Never in a million years after everything we've been through did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy. We were friends. How could you do this to me? I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Wednesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999,

a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian.

Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died

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an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Okay, we must ask the question because this will be the latest we've ever asked a question,

but we're just having too much of a time talking to you so what was the culture alan coming then may you say culture is for me this was the piece of whether pop culture or general culture around you that sort of moved you in in alan coming direction it was a piece of theater and it was when i was a very little boy and a theater and education group came to my school and did a play in our dinner hall and like you know we all sat on the floor and they did this piece of and it was about the about a historical thing that happened in scotland called the highland clearances when all the people were cleared off the the the the hills and sent away uh by the english and i really even at that moment, I thought, gosh, I am learning more from this than I got in history class

because I'm seeing it now and it's being presented to me in this way. And then I thought, oh, it's so amazing. And then at playtime afterwards, I saw them through, I remember through the fence, the metal grid fence of the playground, looking through it. And I saw the actors from the metal grid fence of the playground, looking through it. And I saw the actors from the little theatre company putting their big hampers of props and things into a van. And I realised they were going off and going to do this at another school.

And I was just like, I want to do that. And that's when I decided to become an actor, right that very moment. How old were you? I was probably about eight or nine. And guess what? The very first job I did, the first professional job I did, it was in it was in a production of macbeth in glasgow and i played malcolm and we're sort of talking kind of like

this about oh what was your first sort of thing that you wanted to become an actor and i was i told this story and the lady the actress called maureen beatty is a brilliant scottish actress who was playing lady macbeth suddenly went wait what what was the show about and i said highland she went and it was near dundee i went yes she went i was in about and i said hyland coon she went and it was new dundee i went yes she went i was in that and she was she had been in the very show that i several other actors a couple of other ones actually that i that i knew but isn't that crazy that's crazy i think that people really forget like whenever i hear or see that um you know like a particular education system,

it doesn't have theater or the kids aren't exposed to theater. Like it's what you're saying. It's like some people genuinely like their world can completely expand. Their mind can completely expand by seeing that Bowen and I for several years did children's theater. And you can tell when some of the kids are changed by it. It's magical, isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. And also, I think it's been interesting, you know, with the pandemic, that in a crisis, artists are the first people that culture turns to to make sense of it,

to kind of entertain us, to take our minds off it, or to raise money, help raise money for various things. The arts are the first sort of line of defense, if you like, in a crisis. And yet, the arts is the first place that they have all the money cut

in order to pay for everything. It's really hypocritical. Well, it's just an arbitrary thing. I mean, this is a weird thing to bring up, but I feel like to those actors, like that day, it was just another, let's say, Wednesday afternoon. Do you know what I mean?

And even for me and Matt, when we would go and do these children's theatre shows at school it'd be like well for us it's like oh god we gotta wake up at like 5am today and like hack of the end like but then it's like but then I don't know but then hearing you someone like you say this that like you were like truly sparked by a

children's theatre moment at your school I'm like oh god it's like you will never be able to tell. And this is just- You will undoubtedly have done that. You'll have undoubtedly done that to some people. And that's not, and even if they don't become actors, you will have changed them forever in a way.

And I think that's, you know, we forget what a great, it's a pressure, I suppose, in some ways, but what a great honor it is that you have the job that can actually change people's lives for the better. Absolutely think and this is not I don't know why I'm connecting these two dots in terms of like cultural like like arts funding not getting what it should in this country or any country but it's like because it's something that like people there's no like number on it because people can't like assign like yeah we want results things we want figures results but then but then it's like well if you were able to track like how many kids want to go into theater after like the the theater trip comes

to this school then maybe it's like oh well then maybe like i don't know it's like it's such a it's a hard thing because it's it because it is so arbitrary it's like it's like i was talking to sudi today our very good friend sudi we were like you can't describe funny like like she's like she's like she's a fucking professional comedian which is a writer for years and years and then talking to me about this like one of her collaborators we're just like you can't you can't define what funny is and therefore people get into arguments all the time about like who who's funny yeah it's a terrible thing that you know i think in some cultures we absolutely

need to see it on paper to make sense of it whereas you know like where I'm from it's

people understand the value of it you know like the First Minister of Scotland quotes like she's a big reader for instance and she

talks about books and she sometimes says here's a great book i've just read blah blah blah imagine that coming from an american politician it's it would be incredibly rare and then and also they would be criticized for taking time off to read a book probably you know to me and then and also but just like she's some you know she quotes poetry sometimes when she makes speeches and things like that this idea that language and and and culture in that way is so

much more into the mainstream of how people think and there's reference points not something that's seen as something we do for fun or something that's a little frivolous it's actually much more valued in the very core of of a society and that's the problem i don't know how you how you change that you just have to tell you have to give it to people you know that's the thing that we've got to be told how you can't and a a funny way i started you can't blame people for being homophobic or racist if the government of the day is homophobic and racist because they are the people that are supposed to be leading you and explaining to you what is decent and how

to behave and so i think we've always got to that's why it's so depressing right now that all these great things that biden wants to do is not going through because of this gridlock and that awful man who won't let the voting thing go through i mean it's just the political system in america is so it seems so intent on just staying on stasis as it's you know modus operandi of course a lot of latin words in one sentence well we love joe mansion in this house just kidding oh yeah joe mansion stands i'm yeah the worst literally the worst and unfortunately he is president of the united states it feels like um but uh because because it doesn't matter who is while that fucking asshole sits there and also kirsten cinema is no better and i don't care i don't care how blue her

hair is um that's actually worse it's more patronizing yeah. That's actually worse. It's more patronizing. Yeah, no. It's actually worse. I'm sorry it looks bad. It's not good. Her dye job is bad. Not to remark on the looks of a, whatever, she just looks bad.

Anyway. But I will say, it's so crazy that you say that people wouldn't be this way if it wasn't, if the government wasn't filling their heads with this because when we do, when we used to do these shows all the time, Story pirates was the name of the company it was like all the five and

six-year-olds were my favorite because they were the most untouched by yeah by anything and then you could see when they got to like eight nine ten something started to turn especially in the boys like um if something was turning it was just and you saw that little glimpse of like i want to have fun but i but i can't i can't you know what else too you know what else i've been judged yeah yeah you know what else too when when the kids are really little when when little boys are really little they lay in each other's laps they hold each other they touch each other and they're they're very tactile and they're very sensitive and emotional and open. And they're screaming,

laughing when like, when like something gay happens on stage and by nature of Bowen and I being on stage, many gay things happened and sort of like us in a wig, like yelling at each other about like, which spoon was magical and which one wasn't like, um, stupid queer stuff.

And like, it it does it does it does change when you can tell the parents or they don't have a filter yeah yeah and then they're then there's something happened i think and it is a male thing that i think they're taught they're just very quickly you realize that that's not acceptable there's things not you know there's things that are not are expected of you and there's things that are not are expected of you and there's things that are not acceptable and it's immediately it's a very sort of about manning up in a way and sports and things become very polarizing in that way too and i think it is really interesting and it's always magical when you meet people who have escaped that who are

also straight you know what i mean i think i'm all i i love god bless them a straight boy in touch with his sort of femi queer side i think it's just the best thing ever and i and i i i i think that's actually something again about your your generation and your group that i've seen is that that is much that's much more integrated everyone everyone has a sort of much more integrated kind of group of friends and it's much more and i think you you know you you lot because you always grew up with the internet didn't you there was never any time we were we were in about first second third grade when it really started to pop off right right so that's when you're a little so um i think you've always had

access to so many more options in all sorts of ways and you've grown up with like at the click at the you know three clicks away having so much more information and so much more understanding of things and i think that's i mean there's obviously downsides to that as well um but i think actually it's made you a more um friendly and open uh generation i mean well let's hope so but then yes let's hope so. Yes, let's hope so. Let's just hope so. But no, that's very astute of you. I mean, I just think

hearing Matt talk about these five-year-olds, or these kids, in the turn, it's like masculinity is self-harm. That is what I truly believe. Starting to saddle yourself with an idea of how you should like that's that that that is what i truly believe yeah it is like like starting to like saddle yourself with an idea of how you should behave as a man it's just like yeah it's just

like i mean that is just like gender nonsense that ends up like ruining people's lives you know literally yeah you know that my fellow my favorite memories ever this is the last time i'll bring up story pirates and i bring it up because henry was there because henry kapurski was also a story pirate he wasn't a performer as we know henry is more comfortable behind the keys and he was like he just he just texted me and said to send you send you regards man regards yeah tell him i send my regards back that's how you know our relationship is over oh there's a little applause emoji then send my regards i accept his regards i'm going to text him later but one time we one time we were at a show this is like very early on like before we were dating and i think um we started dating very shortly after this but like

this little boy the teacher brought up this little boy and after the show and he had this like book of pictures that he had drawn that he he had tied together or taped together. And his teacher was like, this is so-and-so. He's one of my very special students. And he wants to show you this book that he wrote and illustrated. And he just sat there and went through the book. And I'm like, this is a creative kid. And it was very clear

like a young young kid had done this but to go to the lengths to make a book it fucking sucked i mean the art was garbage but no i'm kidding but i don't remember the art it might have been garbage but uh but like the fact that he was like i'm ready and willing and able to do this and i'm presenting art and i want to create art it just makes me feel like i want every kid i want every kid to have access to all that stuff because we don't know the genius that we could be getting and also we should say it's so unfair some of these schools that we went to that obviously have no money and i feel i just it was it's just so clear that so much in new york needs to change and so much everywhere needs to change because all these kids should have a chance

to express themselves creatively and be exposed to stuff like you were. Also, just to have, like, you know, it's good for you. It's actually, we're obsessed with, like, who's the next, you know, blah, blah. Who's going to be the next Vincent van Gogh? Who's the next Mariah Carey? Actually, just the very fact of doing it is good and healthy

and is an important thing we should do, like keeping fit for our bodies. We should also keep fit with our minds and our hearts and our imagination. That's what the arts is for. God, I sound like a commercial. No, but the thing I'll always remember is when you put Vincent van Gogh and Mariah Carey

on the same level. I thank you for that. Thank you. As like a secretary of the Lamale level. And I thank you for that. As like a secretary of the Lamily, I really thank you for that. That is correct. What do you think, Bo and Yang? Should we move on to I Don't Think So, Honey?

I think we should move on to I Don't Think So, Honey. This is our segment in our show where we each take one minute to rail against something in the culture or something that is happening to us. Matt, do you have a topic? I do. And it's sort of fresh on my newly New York mind.

Okay, great. I will time you. This is Matt Rogers' I Don't Think So, Honey, and his time starts now. I don't think so, honey, that the New York subways finally got figured out the second I fucking left. All of a sudden, I come back and you can use your

goddamn debit card to get in. I don't have to get a MetroCard anymore. MetroCards are a thing of the past. I don't think so, honey. How come I used to have to suffer with that little piece of paper that I'd have to hold on to for a month. And if I lost it, I would lose the, at the time, insurmountable amount of money I had paid to get that. Now you can use your goddamn debit card or credit card. I don't think so, honey. Also, there's Wi-Fi almost everywhere on every single stop. Do you know how many times I've been crying, stuck in a subway between the fucking this and the that

on the truly pits D train, trying to get somewhere and unable to communicate. Now communication is like water. Everyone can have it. I don't think so, honey. I have to tell you, New York, you're trying it with me with the humidity, but you're pulling me in with this new subway system. Things are

looking good. I don't know. Maybe I do think so, honey. And that's one minute. What? Not to say New York is like the best it's ever been. Like there's a lot that's going on. That's like, I'm like, what the fuck is going on? But the subways have gotten pulled together. Hey, thank blasio for that just kidding i um i think i think it's great that there's wi-fi in every station it's like it just makes the way it's

we're one step closer to making like internet usage like for everything that everyone can have for everyone yeah i mean i always think that the the this when i I come to a hotel and you have to pay for the Wi-Fi, I think, disgusting. Oh, disgusting. I think it's just really like charging for something that you could give free to everyone. Yes. I just think it's shocking. And especially in a swanky hotel,

and then they charge you for the internet. I'm like, you're foul. Are they doing that where you're staying right now? In the Cave Hotel, it's free. God bless. I'm talking to you via the free access or I would be billing you. No, it's all free here in the Cave Hotel.

For me, it's worse when it's a shitty hotel. I'm at a shitty hotel and it's $14.99 for 24 hours of Wi-Fi. I'm like, where do you get off doing this? I'm staying to watch porn all night. Yes. Where does any Holiday Inn get off charging you 14.99 for wi-fi it's like you should be so lucky i know i've checked into this establishment but it's like i suppose we don't make calls you remember when you used to make

calls on the phone and you're probably had mobile phones they must have made a lot of money from that yeah you lost all that so like oh we can charge the internet it's the same with like um you know on planes now you're not allowed to take emotional support animals you can still take dogs you just have to pay for them this is being a big change people were abusing it but it's also i think a thing that airplanes are like how can we make some fucking money so we'll just stop doing that and and you know you can still i could still go with my emotional support animal, Lala, but I'd have to pay $125. And I'm absolutely willing to do that. Yeah, but not everyone can.

Not everyone can. That's rough. Makes it an inconvenience. No, absolutely. The Wi-Fi on planes too was a nightmare. That's truly expensive. We haven't progressed on that front in like several years. At least I would say seven years, haven't progressed we haven't progressed on that front in like several years and about like at

least i would say seven years there's been no progress on the in-flight wi-fi front no still just as expensive as it was still bad oh bad it should be faster anyway anyway um so that's mine for now um okay and bone yang are you ready with your i don't think so honey i am i've got one it's a little it's a little like whatever but it's just just just it is what it is it's a little whatever but like it is what it is and with that um we

are going to start Bowen Yang this is your I don't think so honey this week and your time starts now I don't think so honey transcribing likes and ums in any transcript form but specifically interviews specifically interviews with me. I'm not going to be made to sound like

a bumbling fool because I'm actually trying to find the words in order to properly convey the idea that I'm trying to communicate. Specifically when I'm doing a long day of press for that I'm willing and happy to do for Hot White Heist, but if you're catching me at the end of the press day and I'm a little too tired and i'm having trouble articulating myself seconds

please do me the courtesy of cutting out the likes and the ums and the justs and the filler words we all have filler words in every culture i don't think i don't think it's a mark of unintelligence that you say like or um but it just it makes the reading of the interview very fragmented very disorienting it just doesn't make for a good reading experience in terms of absorbing information for the reader it just kills it and i'm not going to name the the i'm not going to name the publication that did this to me today but they did it to me and otherwise it would have been a great interview that read great on paper well that's one thing i will say sometimes i do use a like or an um for comedic effect,

but it's very clear when that is true. It's very clear when that's true. It's an ironic use. Yes. Yes, exactly. And I was just, Alan, I was trying to tell them about the damn show, and they just kind of broke it up into all these, and like you can string it together, I promise you.

You can edit it, make it sound somewhat cohesive do you know what i hate when you do that like sometimes you know how sometimes you do like do you do that where you go i often say i don't want to do the interview they can send me the questions on an email and i will then do a voice love love that i do a voice memo and i send it back to what i think is despicable and it's happened a few times is that they publish the voice memo without asking make it an audio file instead of transcribing what you said they do an audio file and put it out into the world that that's invasive i don't like that at all i think so it's very invasive exactly that's like my i don't i actually have an i don't think so honey am i allowed to do one i don, you are. You're required to do one.

We're not putting this out unless we get an I don't think so, honey. I have it. I have it. I'm ready to go. This is Alan Cummings' I don't think so, honey, and his time starts now. I don't think so, honey, is that I hate when people say things to you and they mean it to be an insult, but they're actually saying something that's actually true.

I remember a few years ago, I hosted the Tonony's and i wore a short suit like a pair of shorts oh yes iconically thank you it was a good look and uh and the and the they saw the designer who i didn't they sold out the next day it was a big thing well that frank rich i will name him in new york magazine who and frank rich course, was the theatre critic for the New York Times. 37. The butcher of Broadway. Anyway, he said to me, Alan Cumming,

he thinks he's being youthful. He just looks middle-aged. Guess what? I am fucking middle-aged, Frank Rich. Why are you insulting me with something that's true? And it's also when people say to you, you're a wanker.

15 seconds. I go, of course I'm a wanker. I masturbate regularly. Every day. Yes, why are you saying that as an insult? You do it too. I just think we should all look at when we're going to use a pejorative and we've got to make sure the pejorative is a terrible thing and not the truth.

I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. More like Frank Bitch. Am I right? That's rule of culture number six. More like Frank Bitch. Also, Frank Rich as a theater critic should have something more like pointed and sophisticated to say

than you look middle-aged. They are not necessarily sophisticated theater critics. It doesn't matter who would they write for, okay? Because we could also name more names, but there have been some flop theater critics. Yeah, I obviously struck a chord in some way with them that it was my by my presence and my not conforming to something

but i was just like that's a stupid thing to say i am middle-aged and i'm not just i'm not wearing shorts to not look middle-aged i'm wearing shorts because i think it looks nice fuck you exactly well you get to wake up every morning and be alan cumming and he has to wake up every morning and be frank rich oh my he has to wake up every morning and be Frank Rich. Oh my god. Frank bitch. I love Frank bitch. I think yes, an insult is not that insulting if it's just

accurate in a way that is not pejorative. No, it's mean. It's meant to be mean. It's thoughtless because it's not even like, do a better insult. I'm here for it. You know what I mean? There think there's nothing better than a clever insult. Yeah. Make an effort to case it in like some humor.

Make an effort. Yeah. Yeah. And one of my favorite Trump things was when he came to Scotland. I saw these people and there was a man holding up a sign and it said, Donald, everyone thinks you're a bellend. And I just thought that was the best thing ever. Do you know what a bellend is? No, what is that? A dick.

It's like, you know, a bellend. Yes. And the other thing, there was a lady when he first came during the campaign and it was the when the Scottish, no, when Brexit happened happened he actually flew to Britain

and he was in Scotland at his thing and he said a great result for Scotland we got and actually Scotland had voted to stay in Europe and yeah the rest of Britain had voted so he got it all wrong in many ways not surprisingly but there was two things that made me laugh so much made me very proud one was that these people had hired a mariachi band to be play right beside his golf course right so you had to pass a mariachi band to get into that's good and there was a little lady who's this comedian actually called jenny goodall she was holding a sign that she'd made so she looked like a little lady with a little cardboard piece of cardboard and she'd paint on it said trump is a cunt on the thing right and there was a policeman coming towards you going like i'm sorry

darling you're gonna have to do you know it was just fantastic and then a wee while later at the BAFTA awards in Scotland I was getting one and my mum was with me and the lady who'd held up the sign was there but she was all zhuzhed up and had her makeup on and hair and I didn't recognize her and she went oh Alan it's Janie I was like oh my gosh and she went you might remember I'm the Trump is a cunt lady and I was like oh it's so nice to see you and then my mom was like oh mom this is janie and i went remember trump is a cunt and she went oh how lovely to meet you remember trump is a cunt i do and i do oh my goodness i do of course that way that is actually so funny i what i wanted to tell you when you were telling your ian mckellen, it also involves Henry,

that we went to Europe for like a week and a half years ago when we were dating, and we went to England, and we were in London, and we came out of our hotel. I think we were finishing up a blunt. We were walking down the street finishing a blunt. And 100 yards in. Yeah, I know. He didn't learn it from me,

but he got much, much better at being quote-unquote Henry from me. I'm giving him some tips on joint rolling, I know. He didn't learn it from me, but he got much, much better at being quote-unquote Henry from me. I'm giving him some tips on joint rolling, I tell you. Oh. So we were like finishing one and about 100 yards in front of us, there was this guy who sort of was like in the visage of Ian McKellen.

And I said, finish that before we see him. He and McKellen up there. And we laughed, we laughed, laughed walked up it was Ian McKellen he would have loved it I literally I was like I was like wow I'm telling you we had we just checked into the hotel walked down on the street I was like yeah Ian McKellen

over here it was you creatively visualized him there we go creative visualization title of ep well this is truly an auspicious episode overall, but a wonderful ending. I mean, this was really wonderful. We're going to let you go on this plane with Henry.

I know. I've just got to go and have an experience, another lovely experience. It's been so nice to talk to you. I've really, really enjoyed it. And lovely to finally meet you properly, Matt. Well, not properly. Likewise. I mean, I can't tell you. You're such a, I mean, they throw the word around, it's been so nice to talk to you I've really really enjoyed it and lovely to finally meet you properly Matt well not properly likewise

I mean I can't tell you you're such a I mean they throw the word around but you are an icon and we thank you for everything you've done everything you are everything you're going to be

seriously bless you bless you I love the way the lights gone down behind you in Long Island the lights are going out all over Long Island

you know there's a beautiful song the lights in Long Island just kidding that doesn't exist but we could. Billy Joel. We'll get Henry on the keys. We'll get Henry on the keys.

We end every episode with a song, Matt. Sure do. Let's do it. Why do you do what you do to me, baby? You're taking my confidence, driving me crazy. You know if I could, I'd do anything for you. What is the last line of the song? Please don't ignore me

because you know I adore you. Please don't ignore me because you know I adore you. Wow, my pharyngitis is really gone. Amazing. For the rest of that song, listen to the Josie and the Pussycats soundtrack

starring Alan Cumming. Bye! So good, boys. Thanks so much. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez

was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars.

We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. on dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby,

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