Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Mind The Gapping" (w/ Adam Selman)

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

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What? Yeah, it's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Shearer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan, Klepper. Listen to season four of Snaff. with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead, and the other tried for murder three times.

It starts with a dream, a nature reserve, and a spectacular new home. But little by little, they lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, hey, hey, or should I say, ho, ho, ho. It's me, Matt Rogers. And in the words of another Christmas icon, it's time. I'm back with my new nationwide tour, Matt Rogers, Christmas in December. Yes, it's time to remember when Christmas. I'm hit in the road all of December with Henry Kaperski in the whole band performing my album, have you heard of Christmas, along with a bunch of other little surprises.

So if you're in L.A., San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, D.C., New York City, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, or, yes, Orlando, Florida. I want to see your gorgeous ass. Go to Matt Rogers official.com or head to my Instagram at Matt Rogers, though, and hit the link in my bio. Until then, stream the album, get your look together, and get ready. to deck the damn halls at a venue near you. Christmas in December, you in my heart. X-O-X-O-X-O-Santa boy. Look, man. Where? Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes.

Oh, goodness. Wow. Las cultureistas. Ding-dong, Las Coulteristas calling. You caught me off guard there with the intro. You threw it in. What do you mean? It was fast. Sometimes I have to race myself. My heart is a patter. Your heart's a patter and you're in your athletic wear. I'm in my Adam Selman's sport. Adam Selman Sport. I was one of the great honors of my life was being an ass man back in the day. A.S.S. Still an ass man.

Sorry, Seinfeld. I'm an ass man. Well, it's not a visual medium unless you're watching this on YouTube, but you are shining bright. You are ready to go. Take on the world. Well, I'll let him describe it when we bring him on, but this is this, I would say this is sort of like a super reflective, like, you know, the stripes that air traffic controllers might wear. Yeah. But sort of writ large on across the entire garment. Yeah, be seen. Be seen.

See and be seen. I have to say, today is a big day, not only because our guest is on the podcast, but also because we are sort of resurrecting the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show. Are you, you're not going to be there? I'm not going to be there I'm working Oh my God I was like I was like

He's gonna have to work Damn It's okay I'm gonna be there You know I would be there With bells on my dick If I was available I'm gonna be sitting there

I actually just fit for it today I'm giving you a little shimmer A little shine Wow just like to fit for the Victoria Secret Fashion show This is gonna be a really Really really fun night Everyone has to tune in

It's if you're listening to this Or watching this On Wednesday October 15th It's tonight y'all It's on Amazon on Prime at 7 p.m. It will be the event

that it was always meant to be. Not that it wasn't before, but you know, we just, let's just like start clean with her, okay? Yeah, yeah. Guess what? We're all, we're all, oh my God, Abercrombie's making great blazers. Yeah, we, yes,

it's, we're resetting. Everything's resetting. Everything's resetting. Everything's resetting. Everything's resetting. Everything's back. You know what else is now high fashion? Marshals. Marshalls. They're going to get a load of Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yang this December for Marshalls, maybe. But some girls are flopping and I will address this in my own thing.

So, honey. Who's, who's flopping? You'll see, you'll see. I'm not afraid of calling this up because it's disgusting. This is, this is, this is, this is, this is disgusting. S- apostrophe, S-G-U-S-T-I-N-G. So this is what we're saying on the, on the SNL group chats. We're going, disgusting.

Sus-s-S-S-S-S-S-D-S-S. I thought you, I thought for a second, it was S-U-S-U-S. You could, like, like a-S-S-S-S-S. and disgusting. I really do want to start describing things as very suspect. Very suspect. I'm so thrilled about

our guest. This is amazing. And I really think that our listeners, our readers, rather are in for it because let's tell everyone a little bit

about the guest and what he's accomplished and done. Well, this guest has really made some iconic moves in the biz.

I first encountered our guest putting hot dogs on a race. for an Amy Sideras video. That was the first time I clocked our guest and thought, who's that? Who's that? And then found out that he puts Ms. Sideras in her amazing garments.

Has put Rihanna in some amazing garments, has worked with her at Savage Fenty, heard of it. As we said, having Solomon's sports. And now he's executive, creative director of the Victoria's Seaton fashion show. Executive? Executive. Not just a fashion show.

And Victoria's Secret. All of it. And Pink. And pink. Pink was, I might step into a pink moment. I've been in a little bit of a pink moment. It's great. No one understands how good they look in pink.

It's actually real culture number eight. No one understands how good they look in pink. You look amazing in pink. You do. You do. Everyone, please welcome our guest. Adam Selman. Wow, this is, um, hi, gentlemen.

Hi, I always love when we have a man with a deep voice on the show. Because it automatically puts us in, like, a, who, space. How often have you been complimented in a timbre on your voice? I'm very monotone, I will say. No. No. Really? I don't think so.

Just so you gave it a little, so you went, oh. See, I got to work on it. I feel like the great fashion men who have great voices, you and Tom Ford. You guys have great low drums. In good company. Yeah. Yeah. And it does always tend to be down here.

And then I have my moments. I have my moments where I don't go high, but it goes wide. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you mean? Yeah, it just gets very excited, you know? You know, wow, wow. And then I have to bring it back down. Yeah, of course.

Maintained decorum. Exactly. So how have you been with maintaining a decorum amongst the supermodels? I mean, so the models were coming in. It's incredible. It's such a dream. Are you guys like model boys? We're, I'm dilettantes with models.

We're great respecters and admirers of the icons. I mean, I did a shoot with. Adriana. Wow. Who's walking? And who's walking? Unbelievable. Like, legend of the runway.

And she's just everything I wanted and more. She's got five children. Wow. And then she came straight up to me and, like, held me and like wouldn't let me leave with like the curlers and the hair wearing like the VS robe, which I also brought for us. Oh my God. In case we want to wear, you know, because it is the day. It is the day. It's the day.

I think models feel a particular, and not even just models, it's not exclusive to them vocationally. I feel like they go to you and I'm just going to say a lot of these men in fashion are not to be trusted. They're not to be trusted.

And they see you and they feel a comfort and you are very good at the executive stuff in fashion, hence executive creative director. I feel like they must go to you because of your general magnetism. I think I have like a working history with so many of them too.

So like that's like the fun part. And then so I do feel like there's like a safe space about it. But also like my job really is to make them look good. Right. Like it's not just making the brand look good and making me look good, but like loving them and like feeling them. I think it's like the most powerful part. Gigi was in yesterday too.

And I'm doing this thing where I'm like interviewing as many of them as possible. And she just like burst into tears. like line two, and I was like, wow. Why? Because it's so un-ational for them to be doing this? Yeah, I mean, it's such an emotional thing, right? And I think, like, you know, it takes them back to, like, they want to be chosen, they want to be felt, you know?

And, like, those sort of old days, which I'm definitely trying to change, but it's also just like, it's an emotional thing, right? And I think also it's 45 million people tuned in last year and, like, to, like, here, wear this, you know? And it's, like, the tiniest thing and be like, have at it, you know? So it's just a beautiful thing to watch, too. I mean, I feel like the emotion must come from the fact that it was, I mean, they were interacting with it at a time when it was pretty narrow

in the definition of what the aesthetic was. You have so many boxes to check when making them look good, the brand look good, and just trying to, just trying to, like, balance and sort of like reset, as we were saying, like, all of these things, right? I mean, like, do you feel, what is it, what is your way of sort of holding all of that? I think what I keep saying is bringing the best of the past and propelling it into the future and somehow mixing it with the excess of the current culture. Yes.

Right? And sort of like parsing through the cultural clutter and just being like, let's own it, right? Like no more apologies, like let's own sexy, let's like be forward thinking. And also, like, I think my job, again, is to like be a steward of women at the same time. and bring out the best in them. And make sure that, like, they feel comfortable. Like, I would never put someone in, like, an uncomfortable position. And I think people get that for me and, like, what I'm trying to build here.

Yeah, I feel like the number one thing I always think when I'm watching the show. And I watch them often because there's obviously great musical performances attached. And I just love watching the musicians interact with the girls, which we'll talk about. But I feel like the fact that it really is so empowering. It's not about like, wow, she looks so incredible. It's like she looks like she's having so much fun in what she's wearing. And it is like regardless of like, it just makes you feel propelled in yourself too. Like watching them comfortable is I guess the thing that I always take from it.

Yeah. And I would hope that that would be beyond just the Victoria's Secret fashion show, right? Like if you see somebody walking down the street, you're like, she's amused because she is like owning it and she's like serving it. and like, you're like, oh, I love how she put it together, right? So I'm trying to channel that too. And that's a fun part. Even whenever I have my own brand, like doing the castings with the models was like my favorite part.

Like I would like sit in front of the table so I could have that exchange. And like that was the best, best part. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild.

Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular circular home high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble. And our couple retreat from reality.

They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ed Helms, and welcome back to Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing. you a new snafu every single episode.

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Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched. You're here. What was that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today. I forgot whose podcasts we were doing. Nick Kroll. I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's see how it goes.

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these odd deaths, which include everything from mushroom poisoning and mysterious heart attacks to window clumsiness and suicide by decapitation. One thing we have found since we started back in 2022 is the information on the suspicious deaths has become much harder to find. Not just that, it seems as if state-controlled media in Russia is being utilised to purposely confuse and contradict the reporting that gets put out. As you can probably imagine, season two gets very weird. Listen to Sad Ologac on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I just feel like you, I think the reason why I am so emotionally,

like I've kept this, I've kept all of your pieces for, for years now because they were, my proportions are whatever, all obviously unique to me, but like there, I have my little like things where I'm like, okay, I got short legs and I got Norator so I got like really like fit to that. I feel like your clothes automatically made me feel just based on where the seams were and based on the structure of it and where things were placed. I was like, I feel amazing in this.

I look amazing. I feel great in this. I feel like that's been your signature as just having the seam sculpt to the body in all these ways. And I feel like you're so good at hiding certain things in the sort of support of it. But like I feel, I would imagine that with lingerie, you are limited in your area of sort of like cloaking or sort of like covering up those mechanical places. Oh, no. I would say the opposite. Really?

Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, because I do have like a long history of costumes. and even like making drag for like RuPaul and things like that. You know, I have this great history and I'm able to take that. And it's all about like working with illusion, right? Like that's all it is. And with lingerie, right? Like it's all about like sort of adding or subtracting.

And bras is one of the places in the industry that there's actual innovation, which is really cool. Talk about that. It was good. I noticed I said our favorite word that and said this out of this. I don't know. We're not on the same page today. They're not in sick of me as my sis. Like with all of my girlfriends, I'm like, you're not wearing the right size bra.

And they're like, really? And I would say. Do you tell Greta that? Yeah, I did. And I actually put Greta in the right size bra. Yes. Her bra is incredible. Yeah.

And it's so fun, you know, because I think that like it's all, there's no standardization, right? I can get real nerdy about this. We get nerdy. Like, if you go back in like the history and there was a world. fair. I'm going to get really nerdy, but there was a world fair. This is like 1930 something. Wow. You know, and, and, and they, they were like, let's find the most normal body, right, in America. And so they did this thing and they had Norma and Norma and norman. And they were, like, let build it. And then they used to do measuring parties because of the, the industrialization of fashion, right? Kind of was taking off then.

And then they did these things with measuring parties for women because, you know, know, men, it was already in the military, but they didn't have the women, but of course, like, no Italians, no blacks, you know, no, so it was like all white thin women, you know. And then, so then they came out. Normas. Yeah. So then they came up with this standardization, and that's where, like, two, four, six, eight comes from. Wow. Yeah. And so like, so that's where it started from, right? So, but then, then you get into, like, how bras changed in history, which BS has been around for 50 years. And, you know, we really, really, really. innovate, you know? And so there's like different kinds of foam, there's different kinds of pads,

there's different kinds of push-ups, there's different kind of injection molds, you know, so like things can feel more like tissue or harder to give you more support. And like as you go through the range of cups, you know, and bands, like that's where it gets really technically, you know, interesting. And I love, love, love that stuff. And so you really can create an illusion, you know, with the different bra with a, you know, garter with a waist, you know, like the different panty cuts. Like, I just find it fascinating. It's really fun. I mean, what are you looking at? What, like, what made you say, Greta, you're wearing the wrong bra size? Like, you just looked at, like, the space between the cups and the...

Yeah, like, there was like, like, a little gaping, you know? Gaping. Yeah, and you can, like, look at, like, the fun, like, yeah, hate gaping. Mind the gaping. That gore. I love that. So then I was like, girl, you're on the wrong size. And then we got in the wrong size. I was like, what size are you? And then she asked, and then I was like, no, no, no, we're going to, but, but, but she was close. I wonder how many women don't know their real bra size. I think that that's the hard part, right? And most women have always been told they're wrong.

And then it's like, as opposed to making it like a fun thing, I would say if your friend, if Greta called you, if Amy called me, I would be like, yes, let's go get you measured right away. It would be so fun. But I don't think that like most people would think that that's a fun thing to do, but it could be so fun. It could be so fun. Because the ritual for our generation has been like,

I'm speaking, like, for women who, like, would go to JCPenney or something and get, like, have a woman, like, squeeze them and then tell them. Any time, like, a measuring tape comes out, though, everyone, like, runs the other direction, men and women, but, you know, because also that, you know what I think is so funny is those people that, even if they do know, the people that look at you and are like, yeah, you're a 30s thing. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just like, yeah, but just, it's like when a waitress doesn't write down the order.

I'm like, you might mess. Yeah. And I'm just saying, like, you don't know. But there are experts for that. And that's why you, like, if you go to a store, you can actually get measured, you know, fit and then be like, actually, that's not the right bra for you. This is the right bra for you. And there's so many different cuts and solutions and everything. So I'm like, yeah, go for it. Like, go get a group together. Go do it. You must have a lot of stories about, like, like, seeing someone come in in discomfort or, like, unsure of themselves. And then, like, putting them in something that's correct for them and them just, like, having, like, a total personality change. I think that that's what costume design taught me is because it's about, like, looking at someone and saying, like, that's not right for you, right? It doesn't mean it's not right for things, but, like, this is not your era for that or this is not your, like, you know, like, this is not the direction you're going or you don't feel quite like yourself. And that's what I was good at with costume design. And I think that that's what, like, my training was. Like your parameters change based on the way the clothes look. But then with costume, it's like, it's a height, it's, it's, it's, you're, you're putting on something for a heightened reality, perhaps for the camera, for stage, whatever, but I feel like your talent was always making it feel every day and lived in. Yeah, I mean, like, with Rihanna, like, that was the thing. It was like, why are you wearing these, like, sparkly body suits whenever you're, like, the most gorgeous

person in the world, right? And, like, and you dress so amazingly on the street. So, like, let's take that street style and, like, put it on stage. Like, how do you, like, merge the two? Wow. And that was like the big unlock, right? And that's what like sort of like propelled her fashion career. And like that's like luckily she like hired me to do that, right? And I would travel around the world and show up like racks of clothes and just be like, this is just made for you.

And she would take it and style it and like make it incredible with Mel. So it's amazing. Mel, I mean, I feel like I feel like the crystal dress at the CFTA Awards 2014. I think that that felt like the beginning of like the modern. idea of like viral fashion right and like what has been what do you think has like for reverberated the most from that moment what's so fascinating about it is like I think everybody knows to dress everybody knows the thing and like and I like obviously dream come true and like you know it was like so incredible because I wanted it like I was like this is I want to do this this is like

let me present like Tom Ford actually had made something for her too you know and then she chose to wear that and like you know it was such a huge career defining thing but then like I was so broke whenever I did it that like I was tailoring a Nike job the next morning and so I was on set at 630 in the morning with my name splashed everywhere you can imagine and I'm tailoring Nike bras and leggings and stuff having just dressed her for the correct you know it was just like it was like the most you know surreal thing in the world because like it was like I had to keep my livelihood going but then I had this huge career thing. And so, like, I think that, like, and it was, it's such a good parallel, right? Because I think so

many people think that, like, even putting it on this show, right? Like, it's like this, I'm doing this amazing dream come true. I'm, like, doing all the things that, like, I always told myself I could do. Yeah. Right. And then, but then you have this other parallel happening of, like, your life, right? And I'm sure you guys can relate to that, too. Like, you're out in public. You're out and, you know, and you have to keep the wheels on the bus. Right. There's a million un-glamorous things that happen between the glamorous ones. And I feel like, I feel like, I feel like I've been very lucky to be able to, like, see you in your space, put together your clothes. I really miss. This is what I miss the most on social media.

Burn it all down. But archive the social media posts. And I, and I mourn these every day. This was my ASMR for a while. It was Adam Selman doing Adam Selman's sport like drops and just like going through each of the clothes and describing them. And I don't know, it was the most influencer days. It was your influence her days. But it was just, I feel like I learned so much about construction because you were talking about the clothes like that. But like do you feel like can you be as transparent about that at BS now? Like do you feel like there's this like barrier for lack of a better word between like what you can reveal?

because it is this, like, it is this industry secret that you have to keep in some way. No, I think they would be thrilled if I was, like, down to, like, walk through product and, like, talk about it. It's just not your thing anymore. Yeah, there's just, like, I think I've, like, learned to sort of hold some space for myself. And I think that, like, even in the past few years, like, after I shut down Adam Selman and Adam's Elman and Sport, like, yeah, I just, I've taken a real step back, you know? And, like, this is actually the first interview I've done in a long time. Um, so, but I mean, but it's a joy, right? Because then it's like, I have new things to talk about. I needed like that time to sort of regain and like calibrate who, who I want to be and what sides of myself that I want to show. And that's like that's like the fun part about it. Because like Victoria's Secret, most people don't know that it's, you know, I'm driving a certain part of this ship. And then there's a huge other part of the ship happening at the same time. And it's just such a massive company. So there's a lot of magic elves making the magic happen. Yes. I feel like if. It was when I met you, like, we met because you're close friends with Greta.

Yeah. And then at the time, you were like literally running Savage Fenty. And I was like, that's such a fun, because you're such like a fun loving person and that brand is so severe. Like it's fun, but it's like, and like you're best friends with Amy Sedaris and you're a goofy person. But then also you have this like real eye for sophistication and like sex and like what's going to empower women. And so, I guess, like, that's, like, fun you can bring to Victoria's Secret, which is why I think it's, like, such a genius brand for you. Because the show is going to be fun.

It should be fun. And so just speaking to the fun that's going to be on stage, like, there's also the musical performances, which I think are such, like, an intrinsic, amazing part of the show. Can you talk a little bit about what it's been like to bring the artists in and how that's come together? Yeah, I keep saying, like, there's a reason why I stepped away from pop, stars, you know? No, I'm just kidding. It's like, it's been incredible. Like, it's so fun to, like, enter the arena and actually, like, kind of build the arena, you know, and, like, like, someone we have performing as Carol G. That's so cool. Oh, my God. Like, she's just, and I met her in Paris

over the summer, and she's just, like, so beautiful, so lovely, just so incredible. And a huge deal. Yeah, huge deal. So, I mean, like, it's just, like, a lot, a lot, a lot of fun and, like, like building that world and helping them bring that show to life and create the fun is, you know, it's a dream come true. Yeah. It really is. Who, what's, what's the full, what's like the roster for performances? So, um, the lineup, I guess.

The lineup is Madison Beer. Love, we love Madison Beer. Love, she's gorgeous. Oh, my God, she's so major. Yeah. I mean, she's debuting a new song. Wow. Yeah.

So we're very excited about that. Yeah. Like, really vibey, but intentional. Yeah. So Madison Beer. beer, and then twice. Cool. Yeah, love twice.

And then I'm Carol G. And then Missy Elliott. Wow. That's pretty staff. That kind of appeals to all sectors. Yeah. Yeah. Not that like you're, that's what the, you know, idea is, but it just, it's a great,

that's a great lineup. Yeah, it's a great lineup. Twice is performing in pink. We're bringing pink back to the show. Which I love. Which is so, we heard about Barbie Ferreira. I know. That's going to be cool.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's just, she's been a long time supporter of mine, too. so like it's um it's really really fun to bring bring some people back you know into the fold we met on a dolly parton video wait that's right yeah you were working with a deli parton video yeah yeah and like and i was dressing the extras and then they're like the last day before i was going to leave they're like will you dress amy sedaris so i was like yeah yeah hello and then so i had to like stay up all night and make stuff for her and then we went down and had like the best time and then Judy

Dolly's assistant was next to her and then Dolly came over and was I you know, Amy said like what are you holding and then she was like oh Dolly's snacks

and Dolly came around the corner and said the smoky sausages are my favorite Mine too. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure. Speaking of sausages

and Amy those Simple Times videos were like I think that was the first time I figured it out that, like, this was her creative team. Yeah. Because I don't think she did that for the hosting one, for the entertaining one, did she? No, no, no, no.

No, she didn't do it for I like you. For I like you. And then I did simple times, crafts for poor people with her. Yes. And I worked on all the photos and all the crafts and everything. And then we decided to make these videos afterwards that just like just for her. And it was so fun. Was that all shot in a day?

No. No, no. It was shot over like the course. of six months or something. That set was the same the entire time. Oh, that was set, yeah, yeah. The videos were set, or I think over two or three days.

But the photos were shot at those. The photos were, yeah, yeah. Of course, yeah, it took forever. That book, and it was so fun. It's still so good to flip it. I have my Jerry Blank later. Oh, my God, wow. Wow, that's really good.

If I lose this, yeah. It's toast. You can buy them at Curethrift. She sells them there. Oh, really? Okay, noted. And then she sells dumb, dumb ones that look. Oh, perfect. I bet you are a beast to go thrift shopping with. Yeah. Do you like it?

I don't really thrift anymore. Really? Yeah. I feel like you have an incredible eye in one of those stores. Sometimes, but like sometimes it's like, you know, it's just, it's change, right? I feel like they take all the good stuff. Like you really got to like parse through it. Yeah. Do you deep hop? Do you go on that? I sometimes there's, it is just like, it just feels so much less like connected in a way. It's just like you're not touching it. You're not like, I don't know. I guess I dress in a uniform, you know, that's my drag. So, like, I, like, I dress in a uniform and then I buy the same thing over and over and over. So, like, you know, now I'm, like, trying to elevate it.

Yes. Yeah. What's the template that you're sort of, like, iterating on? Of mine. Yes. Like, it's always, like, a jacket and, like, kind of, like, a car hearty pant and, like, the right t-shirt or, like, the right polo, you know, like that. And now I'm like, ooh, what's a belt? I'm like, oh, I don't really wear belts.

I thought I was in Adam Selman drug today. It's because of my belt. It's the belt. And the gene and the gene. And I feel like it's the jeans and the belt and I feel like that's you. And I almost wore black cowboy boots. But then I was like, no one's going to see them. And they would hurt.

I used to wear cowboy boots exclusively. I know. I was trying to give an homage. And then Levi's 505s orange tab. Orange tab. Yeah, yeah. And I have 30 pairs of them. And then I would have match because I don't like mismatching denim.

It really irks me. So, like, you know, so I would have the matching jacket to the matching pant and then cowboy boots. Then I used to have my hair in like a big pompadour with a mullet. Yeah. Let's talk about men's fashion. What are you viving on for 2006? Not just in terms of the Adam Selman uniform, but like what should we be looking at for the six gay guys that listen? I think, it's a good question, actually.

I think big pants are out. Big pants are out. They had a long... They had a long... Yeah, yeah. And I think we're going back and, like, the skinny gene thing is coming back.

Like, sorry, but people want to see body. See, yeah. Yeah, it's... I kind of feel like I made friends with the big pants late because being from Long Island, it was very hard for me to sort of separate from, like,

a fitted pant. And then you look at them and you're like, okay, yeah, no. And so to hear that they're now coming back is... Do you just have anything that you won't wear? What won't you wear?

Like, that you're like, that's... It's not for me. Can I tell you what I'm really over? And I think it's as a result of seeing myself in it. Short suits, like shorts on the runway, shorts on the red carpet. And I think it was a great look. I was just like, for some reason, I think it's always next to impossible to find the right shoe when you're wearing a short at like an event.

I was going to say, I still haven't made up my mind on Capri's for me. Okay. Because because of my leg length. Yeah, and also his legs are very thick. Adam. You hate it. I feel like you guys are very like in like a fashion era though. Like I'm uniform man, you know.

But like I feel like you guys like really like to experiment. But we aspire to uniform. But then I feel a little bit of Elizabeth Holmes, Steve Jobs. Exactly. But you're not doing it in that way. No, no. Like I like it's like it's a constant tweaking. Right.

Yeah. What do you make of the phrase, don't wear what the fashion designers make, where what the fashion designers wear? Wow. It's a good concept. It's pretty interesting, really? It's like, should people be copying your style instead of wearing? Well, obviously, they should wear what you're creating. I guess for me, I'm more interested in dressing other people than I am myself.

And I try to give as much to that as possible, so then whenever I, like, I kind of just don't want to think about it. It taints it if you start blurring the line between dressing yourself. addressing other people. A little bit. Really? A little bit. Or it's just like I'd rather give than, you know, which is, I know. Just like Pisces.

You'd rather give, everybody. Yeah, he'd rather give. I remember that time that we hung out and we went through that book of birthdays? I almost brought it actually. No. Wait, wait. What's the book of birthdays is that just says about the birthday and what you're made of? It is a tome.

It is this thick, this wide. Oh, I need this. Yeah. to a full spread on every single day of the year. Yeah, yeah. And so everyone, you know, everyone, like mine is like the day of the soul searcher, you know, so like that.

And then it gives your strengths and your weaknesses. Oh, I wish you would brought it. Okay, well, we can do a dial in. We'll do it down. Okay. And then if you come over, you know, then I'll read you. What's your birthday?

March. Mine is March. You're Pisces. Yeah, March 5th. March 10th. Oh. Or you're halfway between me and the Ides. Dangerous day.

It's of March. Beware them. Do you still live by the day of the soul search? Or do you still, how textually... It's uncanny. Really? Yeah. Oh, it's so annoying. Yeah, yeah.

I love that. My weaknesses are that I'm withdrawn and that I'm long-suffering. No, Adam. Long-suffering is rough. But it's also like you're not supposed to look at them as a weakness. You know, it's like, like, it could be a positive, too. The phrase long-suffering has always been one-line. Fabulous.

It's kind of fabulous. My long-suffering friends. Exactly. Any supporting actress nominee playing someone who's long-suffering. Yeah, everybody wants to play one. Yeah. The long-suffering wife.

Exactly. You continue to be aspirational, Anna. See, that's the goal. Everyone wants to be you. Yeah. Do you remember what mine was? I don't remember what yours was. We were so stoned.

We really were. And so, like, I don't remember a thing. Yeah. But I just remember that, like, I was kind of like weighing whether or not it was true. Because I don't like being told necessarily who I am. So even maybe that's part of it. You're a slightly defiant, you know, and then you're like... Well, I will say astrologically, this new thing that I've been not fixated on,

but that is resonating with me as a Scorpio, as everyone's constantly like, oh, you're a Scorpio. I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure. But the thing that I think is particularly true now, not more so than ever, but just what I'm thinking about is, like, people will project things onto me. They're like, you must be thinking this and I'm actually wasn't. But your idea of me is that I think that, whatever.

Maybe that was in there. I just really have to flip through the book again. I'm going to copy my office. I'm going to copy my office. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to look today. I'm going to go to the office later and I'm going to talk for it. Is it possible for you to take a picture of my page?

Oh, well. Send it to me to me. Oh, well. Because that's just as good as getting the whole book. Yeah, yeah. It's dense. It's dense. There's a lot there.

I've accepted and embraced pretty much everything about the way that astrology is right and right about me. I was going to say right and wrong about me, but it's not wrong about me. It is that annoying thing of like, oh, read me down. Right. It makes a great gift, too. Like, if you're like, I don't know what to get this person for their birthday or whatever, like get the book of birthdays. That's what it is. The book of birthday. So I started seeing someone who is resistant to astrology. And as a joke, I got him like a little book about Scorpio's. And he's reading it. And he's like, oh, it's kind of scary. There's a, There's a vintage book called Gay Love Signs.

Gay Love Signs. It's so good. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, you're both into jackstraps. And, like, you know, it's like, like, ridiculous, you know, things so recommended for that. Yeah. Okay. You have a copy.

I have a copy. You got all the books. Yeah, I got all the books. She showed me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The poetry book. Oh, it's just a good. Oh, it's incredible.

Poetry? Yeah, she writes about houseplants, you know, like, it's incredible. Beautiful stuff. Yeah. I feel like that's a thing that we're missing. And, like, you should, like, tell Adriana to come out with a book of poem. You know what I mean? She would crush that.

Adrenalima? Yeah, yeah. She would actually crush that. Really? I think you have, you're, like, they feel a kinship to you. I think you should, like, obviously. I'm going to, maybe before the show, I'll bring them all together and read them a poem. Yeah.

And then they could, I was doing the show notes the other day. And it was, like, maybe one of the most stressful things. And I wrote a poem about it. And then I was just like, I can't do this. But now I have a poem. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead. The other tried for murder.

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Sad oligarch season two. Since we left you in 2023 after season one, many politically motivated Russian millionaires have continued to die in suspicious circumstances. We dig deeper into these odd deaths, which include everything from mushroom poisoning and mysterious heart attacks to window clumsiness and suicide by decapitation. One thing we have found since we started back in 2022

is the information on the suspicious deaths has become much harder to find. Not just that, it seems as if state-controlled media in Russia is being utilised to purposely confuse and contradict the reporting that gets put out. As you can probably imagine, season two gets very weird. Listen to Sad Ologac on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is I also what I wanted to ask with you coming in. It's like, what is like the backstage moment to you that you wish more people could understand? I think I like, you know, like on the runway, right, I guess I went into this like really wanting to tell stories.

right, like, you know, the soul searcher, like, wanted to tell the story, right? And, like, have these sort of, like, emotional moments, but, like, you can't really ask that of that many audiences, right? And so... To understand the story or what? No, no, no, to, like, understand, like, a deeper story, right? Like, you know, like, on the runway, it's, like, all about power and about, like, you know, sexy and, like, kind of...

I'm contextualizing it in the theme of day to night, right? Like, the show, so it kind of gives it this theme, but I wanted to tell more stories, right? And then I think that the actual stories probably play out in quieter moments backstage, right? And the connection, like what I just had with Gigi yesterday or like the fact that Adriana is like holding on to me and I'll remember that forever. And I think that like, you know,

I think like the sisterhood of it all too and like even just building the looks on them and doing that and making sure that they feel confident and like ready. Like that's the part that like I think the people don't get to experience but that I hope sort of transcends onto the runway because that's what like the joy and like the fun part is, right? Do you see a lot of community amongst the girls? So much.

That's great. Like so much. And like, you know, and then I think like in the past they would be like, who has the best butt, you know, stuff like that? But like, yeah, yeah. But now it's more of like, I'm so excited to see. So I'm so excited to see Bella. I'm so excited to see, you know, this person.

And that's like the fun part to see them all get excited about different ones. Well, yeah, and this is what I was saying earlier, about the emotion of it. It's like, it's a new lease on it. Like, I feel like in the past it was, it was icky because it was top down. And now it's beautiful because it's bottom up, you know? It's like, they are the ones who, like, can create this and set the tone for what this can be. Yeah. And, like, have it sort of rise from what it was, which, you know, I don't mean to keep bringing that up.

But it's just, it's a really beautiful, meaningful thing that you guys are sort of giving this a new life. Yeah. Yeah, and I think it shows, like, the power of it, you know? Like, I think we all have stories of the brand of, like, growing up, you know, and like, like, your mom or your sister, like, whatever, you know, your friend or whatever it is. And, like, and to be able to be like, this is actually your story, for me to be able to say that to a model. This is actually your story. It's not my story. It's not that, you know, and, like, to take it and make it happen on the runway, I think is, like, what I'm really trying to do.

And hopefully we can kind of tell more of those stories in the surround as well. Yeah, I mean, the fact, just the. mere fact that pink is having a moment will be fantastic. Yeah. I mean, also, like, we talk, we obviously talk week in and week out about pop culture and, like, what's happening in it. And the VS fashion show is a cultural institution. I mean, it's monoculture. It's one of those things that everyone knows what it is.

So the fact that it's going to come back in a brand new, fresh way, it's like one of, it's one of few things that we have that we can all look at and watch and, like, learn from and get it excited about it and, you know, be enthusiastic about for years to come. so we're excited that you're doing it because you're the best. Thank you. And now we have to ask you the question of our podcast, the central question, which is what was the culture, Adam Salman, that made you say culture was for you? I think, for me, it was competitive cheerleading.

Okay, so this is another facet of you that is... You know, you share this with Hannah Einbinder. I know. Was a competitive cheerleader. So this is not the first guess we've had to talk about this, but how serious was it? How deep was it? Well, we were Junior Olympian gold medalist.

Wow. Yeah, we were NCAA, like, you know, the thing, like, I don't know if you watch Cheer and stuff like that, but it was like NCAA, like the whole thing. Where was this? It was in Texas. Yes. Texas.

C-S-I, the best in the nation. You know who we are, cheer station. Oh. Yeah. With that big, booming voice. So I'm assuming you are you are the one who throws throws and tumbles and you know I was not the best like I was I would think I was decent I was good and I could have gone to college for it and like done it but I wanted to go to art school as you know one does but you know it taught me so much about like we had this thing called the spirit stick you know it was real and it was real and it's not about how good you are it's about like you know how much you prop other people up and how much you know energy you show and I think I think about that a lot. I think, you know, it's surrounded me with women, you know, from the jump and like strong, powerful, funny, you know, like ridiculous women, you know, you know, and like we're like tumbling and it's like, and it's like, and it's like, and it's like, and it's like, and it's all to prepare you for being best friends with Amy Sedaris. Truly, truly. A tiny woman you can throw in tumbles. Exactly.

You can scream. So, you know, I think, so I think that that set me up to be able to be like, oh, I can kind of do anything I want to do. Yeah. And especially in Texas. you know in the 90s that like it was like a that was not the thing to for a guy to be doing what part of Texas outside of waco outside of waco so this is not it's not like uh it's not like a little pocket of liberalism no no no no no so yeah it taught you about support it really did like a literal like emotional support but also just in terms of like architecture yeah yeah of like okay it has this has to be an anchor here and this whatever you know i'm i'm stretching here maybe No, but is it a structure? Is that real?

No, no, no. It's like, you know, I guess we, you know, you don't think about it in the moment, but I think as we get older, it's like, oh, my God, like, holy shit, like, these women, like, really did it and, like, they were the supporting, you know, system, so. I would be so curious. I don't think I've heard you boom your voice. I feel like I've always heard you at this frequency. Don't hurt yourself.

I'm not saying, I'm not putting you on the spot to do it now, but I'm just like, do you feel like this choice to, like, place it down here now was, is it? this way to like balance out like just the the usage of it like in that in that way in that contact no i think that like um you know i think sometimes we like play characters of ourselves right to try to figure ourselves out and like i was a theater kid i was in you know cheerleading and i think that i kind of got out of my system yeah i feel more comfortable in this you know like and i feel very comfortable in myself right now which is good but but i don't feel like i need to be the booming person Yeah, right.

Like there are better people for that. To boom? Like, looking to us to boom? Yeah, I'm looking to you to boom. We can boom. We can boom for you. Take a break. You did so much booming back in Waco.

I'm kind of like over, I don't want to boom. Bitch, you boom all the time. You don't, well, I wouldn't say you boom. I would say you shriek. You know what? Yeah, sure, I shrieked. You boom. I belt.

You bowed. You bow. I think you, you have one of the great, my favorite scream. My favorite scream? You have my favorite scream. Oh, like that. Oh, the pork. The pork.

That's my favorite. Is this, does this resonate with us? It's like, I mean, I'm about to say something so snobby, but it's like, I, Halloween's coming up. I'm like, I'm not a big Halloween person. Neither. Because I have the privilege of putting on costumes for my job. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

And so, I don't know. It's that thing where it's like, I have to like balance the scales a little bit. Yeah. You know? Have you ever been a Halloween person? I used to. Yeah. Were you?

Yeah. I feel like in college I was a big Halloween person. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like right after college, remember that year, I dressed up as Mugatu. Mugatu. He was great as Mugatu. I don't think I've told Will that. Oh, you should. You should.

Well? Well, I remember just, yeah, it was Halloween was my favorite day of the year as a kid. It's always been like a little fraught for me. I don't know why, but I think there's something about what you just said. Like maybe because I was always in college, I was always doing sketch, so I was always in costumes. I was dealing with so many costumes. It was easy for me to just throw some. something together because I had a prop bag and I traveled with a prop closet because that was

the director and I had literally as like you want to be a doctor I got you maybe which kind of doctor do you want to be a doctor who's covered in blah or do you want to be fresh and new got both I got variations on the kind but it was like then when the prop closet went away and I didn't have all those things anymore I was like oh no right it becomes a day of thing for me every year I tend to do fine but but you have a knack for putting together something at the last minute one year Matt. This is when we were like broke and just didn't have just resources. And so you put on like a bob and you put on like one of Sui's dresses and you were like

a secretary at work. I was a secretary at the work party who's going off. Oh my God. See, that's a gift though. To be able to bring it together last minute is. And I usually like can put the character together and then I look and I'm like, oh, I know who she is. But I don't know what it is until like one year I was just like, oh, God. I was like, I put together, like, it was like a, like a button,

the white button down and like a loose tie. And I got like, um, lip stink on my collar. And I was like, I'm your husband having an affair. You know what I mean? Like, and then we did, you were Ash Ketchum and I was Jason Stackhouse. That was a good one. I kind of want to bring back Jason Stackhouse. Are you guys into like couples, you know, like pairing?

Has we ever done? Oh, you know what we did when we were, when we were, um, Nicole Kim and and Laura Dern. Yes, this was right after Big Little Lies. For Big Little Lies. He was eye patron. That's a really good. And I was Nicole with a secret. That's really good.

Can you do some of the voice? Oh. I was Renata. You were Renata. So I was, I was Laura Dern. You were Laura Dern with the eyepatch, and I was Nicole Kimman, just sort of in the corner. I didn't do a voice. I was really quiet because I had so many secrets.

Laura didn't really have a stock line that season, but if it were postseason two, I would have said I will not not be rich. No, she did. You want to know what it was? Did I have one? You weren't really, you did do it a bunch. It was, I said, thank you. I said thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

I think that you had to remind him of that. I said thank you! Laurel was so good. So good. Full decade ago at this point. No stop. 2025. 2025.

I think it was 2017. It was 2017. Oh, yeah. It was 2017. We're still up time away from it being a decade since Big Little Lies. Jesus Christ. We're getting there. But is this your relationship with Halloween too?

As someone who has like an occupational relationship with costume? Yeah, like I felt like I wouldn't do it unless I went big. And I'm not good at the last minute thing. Right. So I, my thought, you know, I made a huge owl costume, you know, one time. That was, like, huge, you know, took, like, sunglasses and put, you know, a thing and, like, took those to, like, shoes with, like, like, the toes, and I put claws on it. Are they your favorite animal? Yeah.

I love an owl. Yeah. What's not to love, right? Well, they say who. They can see all the way around their head. They're so cute. They're excellent in the night. And then they can move their heads all the way around.

I'm very into that. Did you like that? Yeah, yeah, I like that. It's a little, it's a little eerie when you see it in real life. You want a bottom, that's where it's just head all the way out. Exactly, yeah, yeah. Pop, pop. You want a bottom who?

Rubber. Rubber next. Oh, my God. Can you imagine if you were behind in the throes and the bottom did Linda Blair? Sometimes, whatever. Anyways, anyways. So, yeah, Alas are amazing. They're so great.

They really are. So competitive cheerleading, you did not go to college for it. I did not go to college for it. I went to Brooklyn. I'm to go to a hard school. You said at that point, like, leave it, leave it. And then I tried. There was actually a New York City cheerleading squad.

And so I was like, I'm going to go do that. And then they were like, oh, we do the parades and we do this and we go to the events. And I was like, I'm not into that. No. You just wanted to do it for the love of the game. Yeah, yeah. I wanted to like keep the competitive thing going. You know, so.

And perhaps I didn't have a cheer cheer squad. I think that they did. And you're a Pratt? I was a Pratt. Yeah, but I think I was kind of like, you know. Not with these Prats. No, because, you know, competitive, competitive cheerleading is the key word to it, you know,

because I think that like that also taught me that ambition is rewarded. You know, that like, so I mean, because people are cutthroat, you know, like they're really like, you know, ambitious with that. They have a Pratt summer. Yeah. They have a Pratt summer. Yeah. And would you say that's generally true?

in fashion, that ambition is rewarded. Yeah. I would say, yeah, yeah. Do good work and people notice and, you know, and, like, and just keep at it. Like, I think, like, Rick Owen said something, like, you just have to keep producing, and then, like, your voice will come through,

like, your style will come through, right? And I think that's generally true for a lot of things. Like, just keep the output. Keep the output. Even though it feels hard. Like, the thing about my current job is that we are expected to, make things at an unreasonable clip. Like, every week

you're supposed to have ideas. And it's not totally sustainable, but it does, like, get you to just, like, it does, like, build you reps. And, like, Matt knows this. Like, it's just, it just gives you some engine of like, like, okay, even if I don't feel like it, I got to do it. Always.

You know? Well, yes. I was just thinking, like, speaking of output or lack thereof, are you to blame for why Rihanna doesn't put out music anymore? And can you claim that? I'm not going anywhere near that. Actually.

I still get so many DMs to be like, can you get this in front of her? Or like, can you? Like, no. Outside of that, though, like working with her, what can you share about working with her and how she is as a collaborator?

Because I think everyone's most fascinated with her than maybe anyone. Yeah. I mean, she truly is incredible. Like, she really is so inspiring to be around. Like, she's so singular in her vision, you know, and that like, and we have a shorthand, you know, and so she really would, like, trust me to be able to, like, output my best, you know,

and I just, I cannot say enough good things about her. It's so amazing, you know, I'm so happy that she had a girl, you know, like, it's just so beautiful and, like, and to watch her become a mother because she's always talked about that, like, even having her cousins, you know, and, like, kids around, like, she's always, like, holding them. So I'm really, really happy for her on a personal level, you know, but she's just spectacular. Like, yeah. That's beautiful. And everything that people say about how she smells is also true. She smells quite good. Yeah, yeah. How would you describe? What are the notes? Um, there's, there's, there's a different chapters, but like, she layers. Yeah. So there's, like, a vanilla with, like,

a little, like, amber, you know, and then there's, like, a hint of, like, a floral in there, too. Like, but it really is, like, a signature thing. Wow. And even she wasn't able to get you into house I was going to ask I've never watched one episode What's your What's your allergy to it? Because I think once I start Then I'll be locked inside

For you know the next year watching it But don't you want to be like re And just stay in and watch housewives on this Also not going close about The NDA is the Ironclad It is leather bound Oh my God I love it

Don't you mean like us Do you watch housewives all the time? I can't do it. I just watch Game of Thrones. I just rewatched it. You just, oh, you just rewatched. And I'm like, and like, that's exhausting in itself, you know? I know, I know.

But the Housewives is something that doesn't really demand much of you, the viewer. You can just fold your laundry as, as, and not even watch the screen. But I feel like I'm, you know, I would get so hyped into it that I would, I would be picking fights, you know, like outside. I would be like, oh, really? You know, I think, I think that, like, that, it would rub off on me and not, and maybe not the best way. Oh, I've said. We've gotten people into it, and we've watched them become more argumentative. Like, we know someone who I don't think they would ever have done something like this.

But, like, I introduced them to Housewives, and then one time they started up with me at a dinner in front of people. And I was like, I did this by getting you into Housewives. No, no, I knew it. I knew that was, not to say that was entirely all what that was. There are intrinsic things about a person. But I was like, I was like, the fact that I, presented something to you that would create a reality in your mind

that it's okay to do this at a dinner is my fault. I was like, you were perfectly fine without this in your life. No, I disagree. Not your fault at all. But then you're implying that you are argumentative,

that you get into fights. Are you conflict? Well, competitive cheerily. There. Oh. Culture. But I don't know you to be, I don't know you to be like a person

who like is perturred. I'm pretty direct. I'm pretty direct. It takes a lot to get me like, escalated, but even to get there, I'll be super direct with you. Well, that's leadership. Yeah. I feel like that's what leadership is.

That's what directing is. It's making decisions that you, it's not about being right all the time. Exactly. I think that's something that people get. I love being wrong. I love bad ideas, you know, like all those things. Yeah. Well, they get you somewhere as opposed to wishy-washiness or, you know, like a lot of like,

like bowing to other people's thoughts and ideas in too many. like ways to try to include everyone, and then the decision that's being made is a confused one or one that is not strong. Yeah. So I think it takes a really decisive person to be a leader because then we're getting somewhere. We might not be where we thought we'd be, but you have to be decisive to move forward. I've been thinking a lot about the difference between nice and kind, you know, and then like, well, I think like nice, you know, it's like there's like a southern, you know, sort of, you know,

gentile about it, right? And but then kind doesn't mean that you have to be nice. You know, I think you can be direct, you can be like straightforward and still be kind about it, but you can be more direct and like, you know, have a heavier hand. Right. And so I've been thinking about that a lot, just about my approach, because everyone's like, you're such a nice guy. You know, I'm like, well, I don't want people to say that just about me. Because it does have a stigma. It does have a little bit of, maybe this is from being gay too. Exactly. But do you feel this way in the world? Right, so it's sort of like, I do feel like when you're a gay person and you are like engaging with the leadership, there is a thing where it's like you can sort of tell that people are waiting for their opportunity to invalidate you. Right.

You know what I mean? And so what a nice guy is kind of like, don't let the word out there get out that I'm weak. Yeah. Because, or I can be walked over because I'm a nice guy and I'm a gay guy. He said that in a really kind way is like even it's even that it's like yeah yeah I think like oh that was cutting but in a really kind way because like disappointment is like the thing that people don't want to touch it all sure you know and and blowing up has never worked for me ever ever worked for me really um that's worked for me a couple of times but I feel like I would this is this is kind of a little bit lazy but I feel like tinesis is gestural it's an action and nice is like a tone or mannerism or like a manner of speaking literally like i like he told me that in a nice way not a kind way like he was kind in that he like you know sent me a fruit basket when you know i suffered i suffered when i was long stuff my thing is like i i just i feel like i can

always tell when i'm being condescended to yeah and i would just so much rather someone be like this is what i need from you and this is what it is so that we can get here great i know where i stand with you and I know what I need to do as opposed to um yeah so what I guess what we're thinking it's just like I hate this energy don't equivocate I hate this energy and I think that like doing this show too like I've really had to put my you know you know a channel big energy for it because it's not just the clothes and it's not just the models and the performers but it's the music and you know like the stage design and like like the vision right like it once you start to give little pieces away of that, then like that's when people chip away or like, you know, and then if you're nice

about it, like, so I've had to be really, really direct and be like, that's not what I want, this is what I want, you know, and try to get that across because it's, it's huge. Like, the expectations are huge, like, you know, like the vision is big and like I want it, I want those two things to match up. So it's been an interesting exercise for me. What was your pre-performance or pre-event mentality and competitive? of cheerleading, does it, does it mirror anything now before a big event comes up? Like, I think Matt and I learned a lot about ourselves and each other before, like, the culture awards, let's say, where it's like, oh, fuck, this big thing is about to happen.

Like, we better buckle down. Right. Yeah. Right? Like that's just, I just got to chill. You know, like, what was your, what was like, what was like cheerleading at him? Like, does that speak to what, like, VSF show, like, a VS show, Adam? I think that, like, cheerleading item was fearless, right?

It was like, like, I don't care. I'm doing it. I know what to do. And it was like a burst of energy. Before an event? Yeah, yeah. You know, and like, meeting like, like, it was precision, right? But it was like, but it was.

Practice. Yeah, practice. But it was more of like, like, let's go. You know, it was like a lot of energy and stuff like that. So like, so there was that. But then now it's more, more methodical and more like thought out. And I'm trying to think more ahead of the whole thing. Right?

Like, you know, I'm like Coach Taylor from Friday Night's, you know, that like I'm thinking more like that, like, you're trying to get ahead of everything as opposed to like reacting to it in the moment. Right. Because you're trying to communicate all these things visually, you know, sonically, whatever, emotionally. But you are only in control of the delivery system to a certain point. Completely.

Yeah. And especially to 45, 50 million people. Like, there's only so much I can control of that and, you know, and, and, and it really is just about focusing on the present, focusing on the future, you know, focusing on, like, what I can do as opposed to like, like, sort of like all the noise that's, you know, coming in. But, but I want to make a spectacle, right? Like, this is like, I mean, it's such a thing. It's like the same thing with the awards. I'm sure you're like, why I've got this idea and I want to do this and I want to do that. Yeah. Yeah. How are you with feedback? Because like, like, like, in terms of like what everyone says. because, you know, especially with lingerie, it's very sensitive. I would imagine that it makes people feel all different kinds of ways. And, you know, obviously Savage Fenty is, like, attached to Rihanna and her brand. And there's like, you know, it almost feels like, I don't know if this is true, but because she's so bold and impenetrable and so assured.

And then people have different ideas about Victoria's Secret. I'm sure that there's going to be, and already has been, like, lots of, like, feedback and weighing in and stuff like that. So are you prepared for that and how will you prepare for that? And how do you deal with that in general? I think I'm like, I know I can't be everything to everyone. Right. And I think that like, you know, I love Savage X-Fenty.

I love it. I love Rihanna. And I think there's room for both, right? Like I think that like, I think people want it like to go at it. But it's actually truly, it's its own world. I think like Victoria's secret is like its own world. It's like two totally different things. And, like, I think what I'm doing here is a totally different thing than what I was doing there.

So I think that, like, I know I can't be everything to everyone. I think it's more about, like, focusing on what I can do and, like, the vision and, like, bringing, like, what only I can bring to this. And, like, seeing the opportunities of, like, it's not only here, but, like, you know, the photos shoots, like, the stories we can tell around, you know, around the brand that that's really going to bring it to life. Yeah. Yeah. Does the job require you to be in a lot of places, or do you get to, like, work out of New York mostly? It's mostly New York, and then we have a thing in Columbus as well. So we kind of go back and forth, and there's, like, a whole mock store there.

What's in the mock store? So we get to, like, see it all mocked up, you know, before, you know, like, the season sets. In the retail space? In the retail space. Yeah, yeah. So I love seeing that. It's just, like, you know, I don't know if you read that Demna thing this week that, you know, he felt like at Blenciaga, he had, like, carrots and potatoes, but he's a chef, you know, but now at Gucci,

he has, like, you know, all the ingredients and stuff like that. And I, you know, and I was like, it sounds bitchy, but, like, really, I'm like, at Victoria Secret. I'm like, oh, my God, I have, like, a whole team, like, there's resources. There's, like, things to help me be able to keep my eye in the vision as opposed to, like, be in the weeds of things. Because I think so much of my career, I was in the weeds of the whole thing. But how are you with delegating? That's fantastic. Great. I love it. It's so fun. Love.

Once you realize you can do it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it feels so cool.

I remember when Greta was telling me, at least, I think we were just telling us at the same time that, like, you were, you were moving to V.S. I was just like, that is so perfect. I feel like,

if you've made me feel very good in clothes, I'm like, I just, just that feel. And if I, you can see. Well, look at the canvas. Stop, stop.

Stop, Adam. But just like, you know, if you think, Like, scaling that to this brand that, like, has a lot of emotional history with people is really powerful. So it's really exciting. Thank you. I can't wait.

I can't wait for the 16th, actually. Oh, for it to be done. To be done. For your invisaline? Yeah, for my invisible. So you're going to be backstage, like, go, go. So you're not going to be able to, like, watch it. Yeah, so I'm going to be like that.

I'm wearing, like, a GoPro. like everyone's like, can you have a camera and a GoPro and a thing, you know, so they can, like, see the whole thing. Where are you putting the GoPro? It's like there's like a magnetized one. So we're like a little necklace with a thing. So there's been like that's like the footage that like so you can kind of see what I'm doing like right before the models go. Yeah. Yeah.

I think like I'm going to be like in tears afterwards. Like it's just going to be it's going to be so fun. I'm so happy I'm going to be there and bubble be there. I'm so happy you're coming. I know. It's so exciting. Next year. Next year.

Next year. Right around the corner. Do you want, would you design, like, a jewelry moment for the GoPro? If you're wearing it, like, on a necklace? No. You're going to have been full of those things? I know. Do you think in a week you can get together sort of a bedazzled GoPro?

There's so many other bedazzled things to get together. Of course. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I brought it up. I like where your mind is going. Always the dreamer. I know.

In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead, the other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild. Not twice. Stoned. But three times. John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other.

They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular, circular home, high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your I hope costs. Hey, it's Ed Helms, and welcome back to Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups.

On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop? What? Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player. Who still wore knee pads? Yes. It's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests.

the great Paul Shear made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow. Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched. You're here. What was that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today. I forgot whose podcasts we were doing. Nick Kroll. I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's see how it goes. Listen to season four of Snap-Foo with Ed Helms on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open-heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine.

I'm Chris Pine, and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart-pounding thrillers, you will love cardiac cowboys. Listen on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Sponsored by Jasper, AI Build for Marketers. The rich Russians falling out of Windows podcast is back. Sad Olegak Season 2.

Since we left you in 2023 after season one, many politically motivated Russian millionaires have continued to die in suspicious circumstances. We dig deeper into these odd deaths, which include everything from mushroom poisoning and mysterious heart attacks to window clumsiness and suicide by decapitation. One thing we have found since we started back in 2022 is the information on the suspicious deaths has become much harder to find.

Not just that, it seems as if state-controlled media in Russia is being utilised to purposely confuse and contradict the reporting that gets put out. As you can probably imagine, season two gets very weird. Listen to Sad Oligarch on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's a time. It's time for I don't think so, honey. Adam, this is our 60 second segment on this podcast, Last Culture East us. We've been having it since episode one.

Why would this one be any different? When we take an item in culture and we sort of look at it and throw it to the ground and stomp on it a lot. And I have a thing. I have a thing. Okay. God Taylor apparently. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so many his time starts now. I don't think so, honey, the discourse

on Life of a Showgirl. Congratulations. You got what you wanted. You made it not fun. You have officially got to the point where you're screaming at someone that they're stupid because they like music. This is pathetic. I don't care what you think about it.

And I do mean you, everyone one out there. All that matters is my experience with it, which has been very similar to other Taylor Swift albums. Eight songs that I'm fucking obsessed with. Three that I think are pretty good and one that I fucking hate that I'll probably love in nine minutes, in nine months. Nine minutes even. Nine minutes even because I fucking hated it. And that's the way it goes. It is ridiculous that it has gotten to this place where you make a full assessment about a person because they like pop songs. Please get a grip. Posting on your close friends, 10 stories about how you don't understand something.

10. No one required you understand it. Like, don't understand it. Go do your own thing. You don't like that she's ubiquitous? Stop making her ubiquitous. I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute.

I mean, you're, you know, you're adding, like, you're throwing a stone in the, I'm saying you as in, like, someone who, like, is saying, like, why are we talking about this so much? Why are you talking about it? It's, it's at all just, it's all residue, you know? This is all I'll say. I think everyone's insane. I get why you're insane, but you are.

You're insane because you should be. And also, like, this isn't, this isn't me a crazed swiftly defending it. This is me someone who observes what's going on and sees something really weird. It's also worthy of insanity, though. It's worthy of insanity. Yeah, yeah.

Well, that's what I'm saying. People are insane because they should be. He's a soul searcher. I would be very curious to see what the birthday, what the birthday book says. Now, what defines, what defines, What is the soul searcher? Like, like, I'm always, like, looking for the next thing.

I'm always, like, like, like, what does that mean? Like, you know, what does that mean to me? How can I better, better myself and, like, things like that? And, like, or better a situation or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Always searching. Mm-hmm. Okay. I guess I'm a soul searcher.

Yeah. And now I'm searching for it. I don't think so honey from my girl. I need to pull up a visual aid, so therefore I need to hold on in my phone. I am now pulling up. the incredible clock for for Bowen Yangs I don't think so honey and if is the visual aid ready that's it's ready your time starts now I don't think so honey these AI Skechers Uno ads that we've been seeing on the subway on the

back of playbills I had a playbill the other week where this this ad of sketch there's my little privacy screen on why is this woman not wearing the shoe why is she, why does she have red and blue stripes across her face? What, like, someone had to approve this. And then look, the type treatment. 30 seconds. Stroke on some fonts, different weights, different thicknesses, different sort of heights, different kernings.

I don't really understand the thought around this, around putting this out for mass consumption. This one of this woman, I guess, in a Japanese village. with five camel toes of horizontal labia on her jeans. The shoes are barely featured. And who is this girl? She's cunty. I just don't know why she's selling me shoes, an ugly shoe.

And that's one minute. And I don't really get, like, this can't, this better be, like, such a quick little hairpin turn in the way that fashion gets, like, advertised. Because we can't have more of this. It looks like a video game. Right.

It's not a shoe commercial. Like, it's not, it shouldn't be selling me a shoe. You know what I mean? This is going to be a very visual one, guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think this. On YouTube or on socials, we're going to, we're going to put a little. Oh, yeah, that's going to be a walk through.

But you know what I mean? Like, why is this, why is this, why is this thing? It's very frontal. For Skechers, yeah, that doesn't make sense to me. I don't get it. I love the product, sure, but like, I don't know. Don't sell it this way. This is all.

What story are they trying to tell? What story are they trying to tell? I am confused by the story. Yeah. Adam, don't do any of this. No, no, no, no. Not that you would. That was, like, a video game.

Like, do you remember Star Girl? What was Star Girl? And, like, and you just had, like, a bot. And then she'd go shopping and she would pose and, like, she would go to a photo shoot. And, you know, that's very Star Girl to me. What's the best fashion marketing ever, in your opinion? I mean, I think it was Tom Ford at Gucci. I think, like, you, I mean, it's, we can't escape it.

It was incredible. Yeah. Yeah. We're still there. I wish I could, I wish I, like, was more tapped into it at the time. Yeah. I feel like I'm learning about it in retrospect. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, that sounds like a fun moment. Even that whole time, it's like, no wonder I went into fashion. You know, I couldn't avoid it. Yeah. I do think, did the Calvin Klein of it all, like, ping you at all? Oh, definitely. Yeah, that was pretty major. Marky Mark, like, made me into whittie tides, you know?

I mean, he's like, that's like forever burned in my brain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For better or worse, it is one of those images that will stay. Yeah. That's a good image. It's a great one. Every time there's a new Calvin Klein. add, I'm always, I always think it's a little cultural moment.

Always. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a achievement level for hot people. Adam, it's your time. I'm so nervous right now. I understand. It's a hard thing to do. Be direct. Yeah. Don't equivocate. Don't be nice. Don't be kind. Be kind. Or be kind. Don't be nice. Yeah. However you want to interpret that. Okay. Are you ready? Adam Salman, this is your, I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.

I don't think so, honey. Batties. Batties are out. Cudy patooties in. Cudy patooties are the new future. And you know what a cutie patootie, we keep things tight. We keep things sexy. You know, it's like an off the shoulder.

It's a gentle fabric. Batties, we still love a Badi. We still want to feel a Badi. But I don't think so, honey. We have to move the needle past Badi and into Cuddy. It's all about cutie patootie. Okay. It's all about cutie patooties.

You know what's not cutie patooty? What? Eating hot dogs. So baddy. Eating hot dogs are out. And you know what goes along with hot dogs are lilies. Lillies are also out because they smell like boiled hot dogs. I don't think so, honey.

And like we're not doing that. We're not doing hot dogs. We're not doing batty and we're not doing lilies. So don't bring it around. I don't think so, honey. Five seconds. We're gonna keep on it at cuty patooty. energy for the future.

I'm so inspired. I'm so inspired. I have questions. They're not meant to poke holes. What about the smotech sausages? Smoky sausages are different than hot dogs. Those are cuto-a-Kat-Tooty. Like if you go on a date with somebody to a theater and they're like, I just want to

eat something and they take a hot dog, you know, and eat it in the dark. Like, that's not cutip-a-patutti. You know, like, everyone loves a hot dog in the dark, but what is it about hot dogs that are not cutip-a-put-to-to-to-you? The condiments? They're too bad. You know what I mean? It's too much.

It's too much of a move. You know. Corn dogs? Corn dogs, you can stay there because it's on a stick. Yeah, yeah. It's on a stick. Because guess what I buy at Wetman's? Corn Dogs.

Corn dogs. Yeah. It's frozen. It's on a stick. Amazing. It's on a stick. Yeah. Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's no must. Yeah. You're not putting onions and relish on it. You're not putting these things that'll slip and fall off. That's bad. That's bad. Yeah.

I'm starting to see. I do love a hot dog. Me too a lot. Well, you know, the New Year is right around the corner. So get it out of your system because cuty-patooty is coming in hot. Yeah, yeah. This relieves me because I've always identified as, I can't, I can't identify. I can't self-label. The way I've gotten through life as a gay man is being cutie-pat-toot.

I'm never going to be baddie. I'm never going to be like hot, hot. But my stylist, Michael Fisher goes, funny boy is, Funny Boy Bowen is out where we're doing sexy, Bowen. I'm like, sure, but... Yeah, but cutie putti is sexy. It's still very sexy, but it's a softer sexy. You know what I mean?

It's just a little gentler than like, bam, I'm sexy and I'm owning it. You know what I mean? Like, it's a... Sure. It's a hey, look over here. It's over the shoulder. It's the owl of it all, you know? But your good friend is, is the ultimate bad guy, bad gal. Well, you know what this is, this is an Easter egg. But she's also very cutie... She's a cutie,

this is an Easter egg. So basically what he's saying is that in R9, What we can expect is more Qutti-Pat-Tutti. Because Bad GAL Rie has always been through anti. I mean, like, that was bad gal. And so basically, like, what he's saying without saying it is he's giving us a clue. After this interview, she's like, never going to talk to me ever again. We know. We can expect Cudy-Pat-Tudy Rihanna.

We can expect it. Don't. I'm kidding. This is the poll. Adam, what do you identify as Batty or Cudy-Pat-Tudy? I'm also, I'm more. of, like, I'm a gun girl, actually. Texas.

With a horse girl rising. You know, but that's not in right now. I'm talking in is cutie putti. And I don't know if I'm cutie putti. Guns and horses can be cutie patooty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're about to shoot guns. We're about to shoot guns.

Are you really? We're going to a bachelor party and we're, I was tasked with locking down the gun range. That's so fun. So we're doing it in New Orleans, and we're going to go shoot guns. That's the first time ever. That's so fun. You're going to have a blast. It really is a great time.

What was a lot to me, Sean? I'm going to say maybe seven years ago. Wow. Yeah. Well, you're due. Yeah, the seven-year-inch. And my brother-in-law, like, set up cook cans and my parents, like, field, and we did it. It was a blast.

You ever go skeet-shooting? Never been skeet-shooting. I will say. A hot dog moment that stands out to me as cutie patootie, Azalee Bain's licorice video, she at the end eats a hot dog in the most cutie patootie way. And I'm not saying, she is obviously baddie. But she's obviously baddie.

She's baddie, but I think she can eat a hot dog going to be a cutie patootie way. Yeah. So I present that as a counter. Cutie patootie rising. Sure. If you're genuinely authentically cutie patootie, anything you do is going to be cutie patooty.

It's true. And if you embody it, you harness that cutie patootie. Whereas if you're just such a baddie. Yeah. You've given me a lot to think about. I want this to, before you fall asleep tonight, I want you to be thinking cutie-p-tooty, like as you fall asleep. I will.

I'm saying, I'm going to be thinking about this for at least a year. Okay. I mean, but then we'll be on to something else, Bowen. You know, we gotta seize this cutie-p-p-tooty moment. Or I will continue to hold down the cutie-patutti, you know, M-O. Until I die. You kind of always been, though. You're like, you're like...

It's all I got. It's all, it's my only sort of, it's the only color I paint with. And that's okay. Yeah. This is my time. And then skinny jeans back in, not leggings.

Not leggings. No, no, no, no, no. It's just, I feel like like the, the wide pleat is no more. Got it. Really?

Yeah. Interesting. Do you feel like this is something that other stylists and people in fashion are talking about? Like, like, it's, it's a buzz?

Yeah, I think it's a buzz. I mean, it's also just like everything's just been so, It's so excessive, right? And it's just a full vomit. So I think it's sort of time to like clean it up a little bit. Sometimes I do see like a pant that's really big and I'm like, what are we doing here? And then I'm like, if you take yourself out of it, like, you'd never wear that unless they, if they weren't telling you that this is what fashion is. You know?

All right. All right. We're back. We're back. And all. I think, do you shop at Orally? Do you do, I think there's some good jacket. There's good pieces in the end of himself.

I'm in uniform for more late. Okay. I would check it out. Do you like Weiss? I like Weiss too. They're a new discovery of it. I'm really into 45. Love.

I mean, the president? The president. Yeah. You said you're a gun shooting. Exactly. Texas going. Trump and Tootin. Competitive cheerleader.

You're a pretty goodie. Trump and Trumperative. Yeah. Beautiful Venn diagram. Yeah. Wow. What a guy. People can send multitudes, Bo.

They do. Never more than ever. I hope everyone will tune. And I cannot thank you enough. We are so excited. The show is tonight, 7 p.m. on Amazon Prime. And I guess because it's on there, you can stream it in perpetuity. Keep it going.

Keep it going. That is very cute. We need us for Amazon to stay powerful. Fingers crossed. All right. So this is so fun. You're the best. We're so happy to have you.

Thank you so much. This has been so fun. We end every episode with a song. Oh, nah, nah. What's my name? nah, nah, what's my name? What's my name? Hey, boy, I really want to see

that you can go on talk when I can like me. Hey boy, I really want to be with you because you're just my type or na, nah, na, na, na, nah. A cutie for a song. But that's also a baddie. People contain multitudes.

Bye. Bye. We didn't open the bag. Last culture reached this is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and Iheart Radio podcasts. Created and host by Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yag.

Executive produced by Anna Hosnii and produced by Becker-Ramos. Edited in Next by Doug Bame. And our music is by Henry Kmerzky. Johnny Knoxville here. Check out Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist, my new true crime podcast from Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players.

It's the true story of the almost perfect crime and the Nimrods who almost pulled it off. I feel like the perfect storm in a sewer. That was dumb. Do not follow my example. Listen to Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Ed Helms host of Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode.

32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop? What? going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Shearer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan, Clepper. Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times. It starts with a dream, a nature

reserve and a spectacular new home. But little by little, they lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of like nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows. their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine. I'm Chris Pine and this is cardiac cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart pounding thrillers, you will love cardiac cowboys. Listen on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Sponsored by

Jasper, AI Build for Marketers. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.