Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Ms. Sadie Cohen" (w/ Tami Sagher)

Episode Date: November 7, 2018

The most wholesome, heartwarming, and honest episode yet?! Legend and delight Tami Sagher (OITNB, Don’t Think Twice) joins Matt and Bowen in-studio to discuss Chicago, MATH, friendship, support, Katherine Heigl, and the future of comedy. There are tears AND laughter! Plus, an ESSENTIAL record-breaking IDTSH from Tami that dives into the atrocities of our current timeline.---MERCH! MERCH! GET YOUR LAS CULTURISTAS MERCH!https://www.teepublic.com/stores/las-culturistasSUBSCRIBE ON APPLE PODCASTS TODAY!LAS CULTURISTAS IS A FOREVER DOG PODCAST. LAS CULTURISTAS IS PRODUCED BY EMMA FOLEY.http://foreverdogproductions.com/fdpn/podcasts/las-culturistas/ Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City are back. I love that. I love that. Oh my gosh. Welcome. And last season's drama was just the tip of the iceberg. You're recording us? I am disgusted.

Never in a million years after everything we've been through did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy. We were friends. How could you do this to me? I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Wednesdays at 9 on Bravo, or stream it on City TV+. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba?

Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-scenes stories, crazy details,

and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer.

Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Hi, guys. I just wanted to jump on here with Lil Bo. Say hey, Bo. Hi.

Okay. And we just wanted to let everyone know about our upcoming live shows. We have several coming up. The first one is queers live bow and talisman oh babe it's inspired uh from the very inspired by i should say the very first queer divas

live uh starring all your favorite divas but we're just putting a little queer spin on it we're gonna have uh so many great people larry owens cola scola josh sharp aaron jackson yes peter smith peter smith and more to be announced More queers Musical directed by the one and only Henry Kapersky

This is on Monday, November 26th At Joe's Pub, the one and only It's our very first ever Last Culture Recess show At Joe's Pub, we love the folks over there We're gonna be, you know, recording a little video promo For it in the coming weeks You might see it, and you can get tickets at the Joe's Pub website So please head over and do that.

And then we have the gag, of course. It's I Don't Think So Honey Live at the Bell House on November 30th. Yes, this is going to be a pretty new batch of folks. We are really going to show you some new faces, darling. Our last one was like a Legends Ball type gig, but this is going to be such a fun, fresh experience. It's going to be so great. I can't wait for it yeah you gotta

get your tickets to our I don't think so honey live at the bell house on November 30th and if you're on the west coast honey I'm coming to you and I'm gonna be doing I don't think so honey live at the region in downtown LA on December 5th the lineup will be announced shortly as

will the bell house lineup but this is gonna be so much fun. I loved our show that we did at Equiplex. It was so fun. I can't believe I'm missing this one. But you know what? It's for a good reason. Okay. Which is your wedding to yourself.

Yes. Just kidding. He has work. So listen, I cannot wait. And then, selfishly, I want to just plug a little show that I do here in New York City at the Duplex. It's called Have You Heard of Christmas? Oh, I love this show. Thank you, baby.

I'm really excited. It's going to be on December 11th, December 18th, and December 22nd. So I'm going to do that show three times. And I really want you guys to come. You can get tickets, which are on sale right now. Ooh, those are the shows and that's the gauntlet. Special guests. Special guests. And that's a musical directed by

Henry Kapersky as well. Yes. Oh, I can't wait for all of these shows I will be At three out of four Of them for sure Yeah honey So please get those tickets And check them out

Yes Forever Dog Look man There Oh I see Wow Bowen look over there

Wow is that Culture Yes Goodness Wow Las Culturistas Ding dong Las Culturistas calling Bowen, look over there. Is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong.

Las Culturistas calling. Well, there's a Nor'easter out there. Is it? Okay. Define it. Define what a Nor'easter is for all the kids that don't know because I didn't know until two years ago what the hell this was. I never cared for meteorology. I'll do my best.

Wow. Take that, Al Roker. You thought you did a good thing this week? No, bitch. Of all the sciences, it's... Although, which is interesting. I mean, of all the sciences, it's the most performative one, right? Oh, okay.

So you're saying they need to be talented. No, but I'm saying, like, it takes... Meteorologists have to have star power and have a science knowledge. Right. Which is so interesting. Oh, wait. I should, like, write a whole fucking... You should write a piece on this it should be a piece and can i say something meteorologists often wrong uh i mean it's just their job is to predict to like sort of

um they have they have a margin of error just inherent in the job and i would say it's the biggest margin of error amongst the sciences. They're able to be wrong and everyone's like, yeah, but that's normal. That's weather. That's par for the course. I don't like that very much. I think it's lovely.

I think it's a beautiful like ease of pressure. Like, you know, you don't have to be exact or empirical. You can just be loose about it. Can I say something? Yeah.

Al Roker, fine wine. Love him. Better with age. Better with age. And I love that he was better with age better with age and i love that he he was the one who really spoke out against megan kelly he was the one who i guess well you know they said something on the 7 a.m hour right and then that carried over because later on the president of nbc news andy lax he was like you're right it's it's unacceptable and i am thrilled

yes then megan kelly is i can't of all of this i can't believe the caa drop that's that's crazy and what's even the more the gag is that she was in talks with uta and then they said sorry we can't take you now oh my god kelly is without honey a talent agent and it's actually rule of culture number four you gotta have a talent agent you gotta no matter the field in this talent industry it's all about that see this is the thing like i would assume that meteorologists have some sort of talent you know al roker is wme wme i would i would assume we can look it up we can look it up because you know he's done some credits in films and you know we have IMDb Pro account.

I have an IMDb Pro account. I pay an exorbitant amount of money for it. Yeah, it's stupid. Just to check my star meter ranking, which is like in the 50,000s all constantly. Yeah, but that's actually a very privileged thing to say because you know I'm in the 80,000s at all times. Oh, no, no, no.

I'm always lagging behind you. Not that I keep score. Oh, my goodness. We can't do this here can't do this here not in front of our guests we'll do we'll do couples therapy we'll go on naomi and andy's podcast i feel i still am considering the couples therapy situation for us well no i shouldn't say that i don't think we need it no we don't need it yet but you should go into regular i need regular therapy and it's a sicko thing that i haven't gotten it yet and i was thinking on the train

today because i was a little sad today to be honest yeah maybe it was the weather maybe it's just the weather i can't stand the rain maybe okay um but i was feeling a little sad today and i was like yeah the therapy thing needs to happen it does for everybody i mean it's not just specific to you it just everyone could benefit from it and i'm entering an exciting new chapter in my therapy journey. And that means that- What is it? Can you share? Oh yeah, sure. I was like talking to my therapist about this like, just like a hookup I had recently.

Hot. And I was like, yeah, but I felt some sort of shame about it afterwards. And she was like, okay. And she was like, do you feel comfortable talking about this here? And I was like, absolutely. And then-

Oh my God. And like two minutes later, like I bring up the, and this is super morbidid and sad but i don't mean for it to be but then but then we bring up the conversion therapy thing and i was like oh yeah like i at a very young age had an adult link shame to sexuality sexuality and like or just sex in general like the exercise was like he this this this there this conversion therapist was like when i was 17 was like okay let's walk through every instance you've had a male attraction in the last you know year or so and and then like his whole the way the thing that he projected

onto everything was there is shame associated to each and every one of these things so he literally yeah imprinted that onto me as I was developing sexually. And then I didn't realize that link until current therapist was like, wait, this is something that we have to work through. And I was like, absolutely, let's do it. And I'm so excited. So it's going to be great.

I need to have things like that. It's perfect. Everyone must. Though I don't think we should have the same therapist. No, absolutely not. She knows a lot about you she does oh i'm sure yeah um well and i'll talk about that in my therapy wow wow okay oh my god speaking of therapists speaking of therapists i think we have like a true comedy therapy comedy therapy she is i mean she's a true preeminent mind in the comedy world. I have to say something. Please.

I've actually been a fan of this person, I've realized, for 11 years. Really? And here's why. Because Knocked Up. Yeah. Knocked Up, you had a scene with Katherine Heigl where you played like her wardrobe girl. Yes, yes. And she's like, I forget what it was either.

She's not fitting into the outfit like she used to or she's hungry or something or both. She's frustrated. And like this man that was like trying to like talk to her is like away and it's just you. It's just Tammy and Catherine. And Tammy goes, you know, your baby, they want you to gain a whole mess of weight. And Catherine Heigl just goes, are you fucking kidding me?

I just remember like that exchange. Like I was like laughing so hard. Me and all my high school friends were laughing so hard. And then like literally exchange like i was like laughing so hard me and all my high school friends were laughing so hard and then like literally the scene ends with like being like i'm sorry that was really inappropriate and she'll be like it's okay it's okay it was just so good it's one of those but that's when i realized i first saw you it's one of those scene stealers that you're like who is that and since then you've literally written for all of our favorite shows i would imagine like imagine our listeners' favorite shows. Oh, yeah.

30 Rock, How I Met Your Mother, Mad TV, Orange is the New Black, Inside Amy Schumer, and featured on Inside Amy Schumer. Girls. I mean, truly. It's got to feel good to have touched so many of these formative television shows. And we're going to get into it. We're going to get into it. We're so excited to have her.

Oh, and Don't Think Twice. She was on a movie. Oh, yes, of course. Don't Think Twice. She was in a freaking movie. Oh, yes, of course. Don't Think Twice. Oh, my God. I saw Don't Think Twice in this gorgeous theater downtown in Denver with a bunch of NPR-loving motherfuckers, and they ate it up, and they ate Tammy up.

And so, please give a warm ear welcome to our guest, Tammy Sager. Oh, my God. Such a fan. Wow. Such a fan. Wow. Such a fan. You can't say that because it's like I'll smile too big.

No, you guys, like I was telling you, I am horrified at how long it took me to find Last Culture East does. Whatever. Just a few months ago. And then I full,

I think I have listened to every episode. Which is hundreds of hours that you've spent in my brain oh my god hundreds of hours but come explain because you just because tammy just recorded an episode of seek treatment yes which i am very excited to hear so excited it's not a competition i love that you guys have made that clear we got ahead of the i watched the instagram story about it that's how obsessed with you guys i am it's just you know there's people out there

who want to watch the world burn uh one of them is joel kim booster he came on here and you'll hear his episode of las culturistas coming out oh it must have already come out it would have come out by now um and he sets the record straight about the las culturistas versus seek treatment situation i don't know that the las culturistas one has come out yet it hasn't come out yet no no but before this episode it will oh okay okay everything will be clear okay but i i have to say even in seek treatment he made it clear look no no no this is not a competition okay yeah it's just that this is you guys have had my friends on exactly right yes that's what it is tammy tammy knows every contour i'm well i'm literally have been plunged in the depths of your pools oh my goodness yes. Of my pools. Yes. Of content. Listen, is it because you love Pat Regan?

Okay. So I didn't even know. How did you know? Okay. So Pat Regan did the show called We Will Turn You Gay, right? That was the name of it. Genius. At Del Close Marathon.

Yes. I just stayed to watch it because I love Brandon Scott Jones. He's one of the best. One of the best. BSJ is a light. A light. Absolutely. Yeah.

And so I just was like, I'll stay and watch it. Changed my life yeah it's so good it just reminded me of the joy of improv and the joy of friendship and also like

Brian Foss who I've performed with for years I have never seen him improvise like that oh really like physically and emotionally

I was just like okay fuck straight people honestly gotta go gotta go like seriously like whatever

whatever were Josh and Aaron in that show as well not Aaron not Josh Aaron was fuck straight people. Honestly, gotta go. Gotta go. Seriously, like, whatever. Whatever. Were Josh and Aaron in that show as well? Not Aaron. Not Josh. Aaron was. So it was Aaron, Brian,

Pat, and BSJ. And then I saw the Instagram stories and the Instagrams of you guys just all going out afterwards,

grabbing a bite. We grabbed a bite at Bear Burger. I love it. That's part of culture. Part of culture. And it was just like who is this delightful young man named pat regan and everybody was like whoever was at the show i can't oh now i

feel bad because i can't remember and it was like oh morgan morgan oh yeah grace jared oh yeah everyone with the three names she was like pat was my favorite improv student and like bsj of course was like pat's the best and i was like okay i didn't know yeah i didn't know who this pat was and he was like i left improv yeah and all this and now i just stand up this is only show and i was like okay i'm obsessed started following him yeah and then he announced i'm gonna do this show called seek treatment i was like that's a brilliant title no idea who this cat coen character is whatever uh-huh i love a podcast yeah and so then i was like googling it of course it's not gonna be on for weeks right but then the other thing you find in itunes if you google pat

regan as last culturista yes famously oh my god oh my god and then just years oh man just years and it just you guys became my nearest and dearest. And then my heart jumped 5 million feet. Like, cause you've mentioned, like there was a Jeff Hiller episode. Oh my God, you brought up Gravidwater that I was in a seat with him. And I was like, you know who I am? And it just like, I can't even,

and I've been talking about you guys to other people. I was just telling Jason Kim. Jason Kim. Yes. And you guys had Jeremy Beeler on. I always say Beeler but it's Beiler. Beiler.

I always say Beeler but it's Beiler. Could be either. Really on paper. But it's Beiler. But it is. He's fully my friend. Let it be known.

Rule of culture number 88. It's Beiler. It's actually true. And it's real. Tammy's friend. Yeah. And he's my friend so don't mispronounce it.

We gotta have Jeremy on it we gotta have Jeremy on we gotta have Jeremy on you have to yes he's only doing live shows yes which I've fucking heard because I seriously have heard

hundreds of hours of you guys I can't believe that but you guys have introduced me to so many amazing comedic voices including your own but also like I've been telling people I was like

you are the future of comedy and then i was like no you're not you're fucking comedy i was like no you guys are like not even the future of comedy you're just straight up no it's true and it's also like then i was like okay i need to be more on top of things because i need to know who the future of comedy is but like i went and saw larry owens because of you guys did you go on Tuesday at Caroline's? yes oh my god I heard it was phenomenal it was phenomenal Kat was phenomenal

and the other two comics on it were great except their stand-ups and like they were excellent stand-ups but I don't love stand-up other people do and like God bless it's also like whenever anybody's like I hate improv I'm like I totally get it I totally get it but kat and larry are just it's a progression there it's it feels like that right it feels like an evolution yeah i always say like i mean it's it's so interesting

that but it feels like this something happened in new york and we talk about this often but because i also came up through ucb and so like i was on mod for about a year and a half and katherine was on mod at the same time and she did she was we were on moby we were on the same night we were on different teams but um and i knew her just from seeing her do her characters around she'd see me do my characters around we kind of like you know we're just knew each other like that. And I got the sense watching her on stage, I was like, she can do so much more than what she's allowed to do right now in this moment.

And I felt the same way. I felt like, you know, I haven't figured it out yet. And then, you know, there was some musicians that also crossed over with comedy. And then it kind of became this thing of like, let's sing and let's kind of embrace different kind of mediums. And it just was weird because it also kind of felt like it never i'm telling you i feel like so many years behind the thing but then you guys have created like pop roulette was fun and you know you know i always felt like pop roulette might have been i said if pop roulette was happening right now

i think it would be huge but because it was happening then and we really were at the pit a lot like and i love the pit but it's very it's very community driven like it kind of stayed within its bubble yeah um we did do a show at UCB for a year, but towards that point, the group was kind of phasing out. But I also have to say, there's a thing of musical theater that is very on the margins.

And it's less on the margins now. But as somebody who cannot sing, does not enjoy musical theater, I was very much like, yeah, it's fine that it's on the margins. Like I was part of the marginalization problem, but,

but then there's like crazy ex-girlfriend now. And then there's like Larry and Kat and like what you guys do. And like that episode that Larry was on with you guys, which also, first of all, I don't think so, honey.

I don't think so. Blue my mind. It like literally gave me chills i still think about it when i see him it's so funny have you recovered from it what's that i have no your friendship our friend oh absolutely larry and i are but then larry the other day larry keeps apologizing to me not for that but for some something else that it should be that it should be that i'm kidding it was amazing it was amazing larry larry will say things to me all the time and i just have and i just like accept it for what it is which is just him like he was like the other day he was like oh no like people he was

like people as this is the nicest thing that was also veiled in like an insult he was like you know people people like you people as smart as you were always evil are always are always inherently chaotic and evil and i was like i well that's fully mean i was like i love that you're like there's a tiny pinch of like mean to it he was like no he was called you bad chaotic evil and i was like i was like oh i was like um like maybe i was like but i don't think i am and then and then like 20 minutes later he was like i don't know why i said that i'm so sorry don't worry he said it because it's hilarious it's very funny what a funny notion he gave me a backhanded compliment as well he was like i never worry about you and say i know you're always gonna kill and like there's not always jokes but like you always kill and i'm like

larry i was like i was here before you i'll be here long after you it's so funny because so seeing him at caroline's like he fully he's it's insane dynamic it's insane but it was also um i was i went with jason kim jason and sorry anytime you mention jason kim i'll be like but it's also like you just use like a soundboard on your phone jason yeah but it was um we were sitting at a table with this girl who brought her parents which was fine we loved them until they did not shut the fuck up all the way through the show and also like the two drink minimum just meant that they were talking more and more and more um but she just kept being like he's so nice really because he also like his stage persona is like,

fuck you, bitch. Right, right, right. We'll just not say please or thank you on stage. Nope. So I think that also is a comedic persona. Right, right.

But I also think, I don't know, it's hard when you're a people pleaser. Totally. And you end up, me personally, I don't know larry at

all i've heard him on several podcasts but i i have to admit that does not mean that i know him we are not yet close no but um i'm a people pleaser and i end up being my meanest when i am people pleasing too much because you just feel like stepped on even though i'm the one doing the stepping oh wow you know what i mean and i do feel like i mean he always talks about like code switching i think like code switching yeah is automatic people pleasing totally well it's and it's exhausting and it makes pleasing the majority yeah totally i mean does that ever come through in your work you would say because i feel like you're seeing that in larry's sort of performance persona and like that is like like his comedy is sort of like i mean is like sort

of the vessel for that thing like when you write is that is that a weird question no not at all like are you like in a room like are you i don't know what what are the politics of that when you're in a writer's room where you're like am i trying to it's really interesting because so much of a writer's room is and it's different on different shows. Writer's rooms are different on different shows. But so right now I'm at Orange is the New Black. And it is the most argumentative room that I've ever been in. Really?

And it's wild. Like I'm not used to that at all. And it's actually been really exciting and really cool. And we really get into it about stories. And it's, as someone who's like as conflict phobic as i am it's been really educational right do you think that's because like people that watch orange is the

new black like they're not just watching it as a pure comedy they're watching it because there are so many social issues commented on a million percent it's worth fighting about one million percent yeah no it is and i would take the quote unquote off of it yeah i really would and like and i also think like you know all of us who are writers there now we're all there most of us are there from season six and seven um there's a couple who've been there from season five and that's it but but the stories from the beginning are like this is a room that argues and cares and people care passionately and gen g and tara like that's what they promote but a hundred percent is because of the issues yeah well i guess that would have to be i mean it's not something like you know i would imagine like

amy schumer like her room is probably more is it more fun like if it's a sketch show or kind of you know i don't even know that it's it much about that. I think it's also just like people not being afraid. I see. And you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I don't even, because I've definitely heard about comedy rooms that are really argumentative. So I don't even. The chemistry of the room.

Yeah. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do think that this show, like, we definitely get into, although like the ugliest fights have been about comedy. Like, that's when I was like, I don't like this. Yeah.

This doesn't feel good anymore. We're not arguing about the greater good. It's like, no, you're not as funny as me. No, it's not even like, even that general is literally like,

no, that joke needs to go in the next beat. No, it's not. And then it's just like, Oh, this is a matter of taste. Hearing it differently.

We sometimes like whenever we have to like sit down and like write shit together, I'm always, it's, there's these little moments where it's like, oh, this is a matter of taste. Yeah, and it's just like we're all just hearing it differently. We sometimes, like whenever we have to like sit down and like write shit together, there's these little moments where it's like, no, I think it's a beat and then this line or like this line and then the beat. And it's like this moment of like, I don't think we'll agree here. Okay, no.

But it is the ugliest. It is the ugliest. Okay, so two things, two thoughts I had. One is, okay, so Holly does listen to podcasts. I don't have friends. But my favorite, yeah oh yeah we listen to it okay they have famously gone to therapy together yes i've heard of this they are astronomically successful right right right and so it's like i don't think that's a bad idea for you guys no at all right because you are in a business together totally and we've alluded this is a partnership yes yes yes and the other thing I was going to say about writing with somebody is I really do feel like finding somebody that you write well with is like a one on one.

That's like falling in love. Like it's very special and very rare. Like you can write with a lot of different people, but finding somebody where it doesn't feel like you want to fucking kill them and yourself. All the time. Yeah. I feel like that all the time with most people especially when you get put in a room that you didn't necessarily like you're happy to be in but you didn't necessarily choose the people in it and by didn't necessarily i mean you did not at all like so it's like and then my thing is like you're at you're at snl now um and so now it's just kind

of like because you have a lot of friends there it almost feels like well i had the option to write with someone i know historically before this but that's not always the case i mean they can put you on different things and then you have to navigate your own emotional response to their creative process but also even somebody that you like i mean there have been so many people that i love and i don't necessarily love writing with them it's a different it's a different beast yeah i totally agree in fact like we we now i try to whenever we're like not agreeing on something, what I always like to say, and this is the same with Sudi,

who's my other writing partner. And like, you know, when I've written shows with other people, it's always Dave I work with. It's always kind of like, let's vocalize the fact that this is a thing. Let's talk about like what it is that we're not agreeing on and potentially

why, because I think that'll like, that'll get it out in the open. And then we can really actually get down to justifying why we both think this thing and then we can move on has that been effective i think it has i i don't i'm just i'm genuinely curious well i think that when you're really honest at least you can understand where the other person is coming from we had a breakthrough last weekend we did we had an emotional breakthrough it wasn't a creative break yeah

it was but it was the best kind of breakthrough. Well, okay, so here's the tea. So we went up to upstate New York. Saw the pictures on the gram. I actually was actively trying not to post because I was trying to enjoy my experience. Because we did, for the very first time, I had never done this, but we dropped acid.

And so... No, I have never done acid or mushrooms. But I've heard mushrooms are the thing to do if you're in nature. My friend, my mother friend, who I won't say, they said she called herself a mushrooms girl. And I was like, okay. Mushrooms girl.

Is that why you were like, let's do acid? But then my, you know, I don't think he'd mind me saying this. My ex, Henry, like he was a big proponent of, you know, going out and doing acid and going out in the woods and or like in like some sort of park or something to be with nature at all psychedelics yeah so we did that and like that was amazing just like literally sitting next to a tree and being like this tree is alive like and then later on we did have a moment where i

realized that i hadn't said something to you that i think I needed to say to you and you needed to hear. Can you share? I will share it. I will share it. So when the SNL thing came about. I feel like I'm going to cry right now. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Like then they say, well, we are offering you a writing position. And then there's that moment where it's like, well, I take the writing position. And so it's that moment of like, we're honest with each other. We're best friends. We talk about it. And this thing of like, I have to decide whether or not this is happening. And he did decide to.

And he had to call me and tell me that that was happening because there were plans for this podcast to move on and do other things. And I think this weekend was the first time I ever told you that had you not taken that job, that would have broken my heart. Like that, that would have like, and then I just like, that was, when I said that to you,

I realized that that was so important for me to say. And for, I think for you to hear. Yeah. How did it feel hearing it? It was, it was, it was really, it was like overwhelmingly emotional where it just like breaks critical mass and I just

I had to sit with it and like normally I'm pretty immediate in my emotional responses to things but it took me a long time I mean a relatively long time and then when I started talking that's when I started to tear up and cry but like it was it was a big moment but it was and you know and the thing is too like

it's weird. I actually think if I, if I have to say what it is that kept me from saying that and vocalizing that, because we are very emotional people and we share a lot, but I do have to say, I think it goes back to this thing of like, don't be too emotional or forthcoming or like whatever it is. I do think it's like what you were talking about before, the kind of repression that exists inside. Uh huh.

Uh huh. Um, but it's also like,'m so because oh my god you are crying whatever it's okay it's okay but like that was beautiful but also like you just as easily could have said like it broke my heart that you took it and i would have totally understood where you're coming from and so like i am so glad that you were at the place of it would have broken my heart if you hadn't taken it like that and i think i always knew that but that's really like if i'm bowing like i mean wasn't there that like i could totally understand it if you would say like i broke my heart that you chose it i get it i totally get it but i like, you know what I mean? Totally. I mean, I spent the day sort of deciding. I just had, like, 24 hours, give or take a few, to decide.

And Matt knew. Like, Matt was there every step of the way. Like, throughout that whole day, it wasn't, like, an open and shut thing. It was, like, I really had to, like, ruminate on it for, like, a limited amount of time. Because it was going to be a life change. Yeah. And, and so,

uh, cause it's interesting that yeses is also no. Yeah. It was, it meant no to a lot of other stuff. Um, like it, it meant turning down other like opportunities that were happening like

concurrently that were like already in motion. And it was, it, it had to sort of put the kibosh on that, on those things. And so, yeah, it was a lot. It was a very fraught day. And then I called Matt and sort of,

I knew that that was this sort of locus of the friendship that we would refer back to for a long time. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City are back. I love that. Oh my gosh. Welcome. And last season's drama was just the tip of the iceberg. You're recording us?

I am disgusted. Never in a million years after everything we've been through did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy. We were friends. How could you do this to me? I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Wednesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+.

I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude. You're a dude. And Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show we're

gonna highlight players peers guys that we played against legends from the past and we're just gonna sit here and talk about them and we'll get into the types of dudes what kind of types of dudes are there grunts we got studs wizards we got freaks or dudes dude we got dogs dog we'll break down their games we'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dude's dude? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season.

Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel.

I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian.

Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation.

Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom, and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife,

and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to levels to this with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby and I Heart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Wasn't that exactly the time that you guys went to The View? It was the same day. Oh my God, okay. It was the same day.

It was like, so that, like the fact that that happened the same fucking day of just like you getting your heart stepped on in such a hilarious way. Yeah, it was so fucked up. Bowen, like fully like managing your feelings. Because like that was like you did a hilarious. I don't think so, honey. But like watching it like Bowen is fully like trying to be there for this kid who lost 100 pounds.

But also then like looking at you that the video of it got Bowen so much attention. But it wasn't. But you know, I was thinking about it. Of course. But it's also I will say this as a third person. It would not. It only existed in relationship. So of course it can feel like, oh my God,

Bowen, the slow clap. But like the thing that was so amazing to me about it was the friendship. And the thing that I love about you guys and your podcast is the empathy and the love. And that's what all of that was. So it was also just like your... And it is like...

It is funny. Because I know she means everything to you. I do need to tell you that my time at MADtv, I met her the day after she was. Because you guys shot the American Idol sketch with Debra Wilson Debra Wilson as Whitney

it was she was Whitney it was like it was like it was like all these has-beens who like were competing in American Idol

the fact that you remember I fully do not oh my god it was fucking you know what that was whoo whoo which then gave birth to

Gru I'm telling you Gru is Debra Wilson as Whitney Gru is Gru is derived from that I love that you guys know how is Debra Wilson as Whitney Houston who is derived from that I love that you guys know how amazing

Debra Wilson is oh she is been lost like Maya Rudolph is amazing amazing

but Debra Wilson had the best Whitney Houston without question fucking that cast I will say okay this is Stephanie Weir

Stephanie Weir one of the best of all time even just Michael McDonald as like a queer, like people didn't know it at the time, but you look back and you're like, yes, that was a gay man. Well, he was allowed to be on the show.

Totally. But like- He's, you know, doing gangbusters and like directs a million TV shows all the time. But he also has kind of your story. Well, but it took him even longer to come out because he was Orange County, grew up,

and like, you know, in this like, Orange County is the Long Island of California. I believe that. Yeah. I believe that. Yeah,

that cast is absolutely stacked. You met Callie the day after she won. Wait, you guys shot that the day after? She had the same streaky highlights. I believe it. Oh my God. You can never forget those

iconic blonde streaks. Yeah, as your mom famously said. My mom famously said, you know that that's the only person who can pull it off, which is so questionable. So also, like, you are not done meeting her. Like, that was just not the time. No, it'll happen. I will say I'm happy that it did not happen

on live television. Yes. Because I've also talked about how I did the Stern after show the day she was on. Yes. And I, she was coming out and I literally went and got, went and hid because I was like, I just can't, I'm not,

this is not the time. I'm not strong enough to meet her right now. I had thought about meeting her the night before because it was happening and I was excited to be on Howard. I love Howard. And I was going to do the after show and I was thinking about the fact that i could meet her and i started to cry what would be i can't meet her on television i get it totally i get it and you can't meet her in the audience no and like thankfully getting it can't be a public thing it has to be for me yeah yeah so what would be like the perfect controlled environment for you to meet kelly i think that like maybe if she was like like backstage at some

event or something i i think that i would have to like maybe like approach her and be like like and maybe if i'm like somebody that she might know like i don't know maybe i have to be on her level i mean ideally like we're talking ideal ideal she's coming to see you guys perform do you know what i mean so it's not like you have to tell your whole story from the beginning like she knows your story and she's coming yeah yeah yeah do you want to know something fucked up yeah of course our booker reached out to her people and they responded yeah they responded so it is like not outside the realm of possibility that i meet her of course not

but i will say this you will i will i will but that she comes on oh my god well who knows anyway i mean honestly i'm like she's in the audience she's like maddie like she's like fully in the audience tammy wants to flip this oh yeah no i'm flipping it but i would never allow it okay so i okay so the other thing is is like yeah being in second city for years and like famously being around people who become famous you are pure chicago to me and like the best and all the best ways you chicago just grew up there too yeah i feel like you were like the fact that you knew you chicago just like makes my head explode i feel like anyone anyone when you hear that anyone go like went to university of chicago i'm like like you went through that essay process and all

that okay but also it was not as different back then yeah i mean i did did did an essay right you did an essay but like now it's like they're crazy it's like it seems like this is a real academic thing yeah yeah they have so gotten off on like how small the percentage is of people that they accept it and this is the comedy major at university no no no what is it it did not exist when i is there a comedy major i don't know i'm not i'm not knowing what you guys are talking about it's just university of chicago just like one of it's like it might as well be an ivy league school very prestigious guy and and like and like they're like now like the personal statements that you write for the school specifically are like um they're not just like talk about a personal experience they're like okay now like for this this section of the essay write

um a 500 word dialogue with the following words in it seagull like spoon spatula like like oh that sounds just like improv it's just like fun like they're pushing you to like do stuff that you would never do how do you know that because i because that was my dream school university of chicago really no it's true nyu was not your dream school i mean no wow some people dream different culture number 77 some people dream different so um i still have 88 it's byler she remembered the number okay sorry some people dream different some people dream different

but you were talking about 88 and 77 also how much has your life been determined by the fact that you went to NYU and isn't that crazy everything about it everything about it

isn't that crazy because I think it's like you know we essentially did start our professional careers as 19 year olds which is an advantage um you were talking about second city oh yeah yeah oh so being around people that like watching them get snl while you are across the stage from them you know what i mean or like watching them get whatever they get like all that stuff and then just being like on stage and being like i

am the person who when the show is happening you're not watching me which is like such a mind fuck totally so i've so been in that position um but then like look at like natasha rothwell if you totally oh my god and who's like i love the star of stars i love insecure one of the most exciting shows that is out there i know and then she's gonna be in freaking the next wonder woman i cannot believe this but it's also like or jesse klein jesse right let's face it matt nobody likes going to the doctor it can be inconvenient it can be very inconvenient you have to take time off work and drive across town to talk to a stranger essentially face it matt nobody likes going to the doctor it can be inconvenient it can be very inconvenient you have to take time off work and drive across town to talk to a stranger essentially about your

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shipping on your first order that's everlane.com forward slash ding dong everlane.com forward slash ding dong forget what i said before about my penis when you experience real joy for people that you love getting stuff in this business you quadruple the joy in your life. Like it's really like when you, and that is why I teared up when you were like, it would have broken my heart if you said no. Because I was like, it took me a while to get there. And I'm so touched that you're there.

And I'm not, you know, it's still a fucking process. So like it will change and all that. But if you choose to accept that joy, you have so much more joy in your life. Yeah. Because honestly, everybody is getting stuff all the time. Yeah.

So why not love it when people you love are getting it? Right. Do you know what I mean? Totally. I'm just like holding myself, just like listening to all this. I mean,

yeah, I mean, I don't really have anything to add it's just i'm just so curious about well and it's also i'm not i'm projecting totally on you please project but it it's really scary to be the person who gets stuff because that's also happened to me where i'm just like i this is terrifying and i feel all alone and i can't complain about it because i'm more successful than my friends. And I have a friend who's still a dear friend who has a hard time, you know? Just they're in that position or they're? Yeah, they're. No, no.

She was in a position of not getting work. Got it, got it, got it. And so it was really hard in our friendship because it was like, I can't share things with you because I'm constantly protecting you from kind of not a great side of your character. And it's making you a bummer because it's not just with me that you're having this, you're having this with other friends.

And it's like, it would be so much more fun if we could all just celebrate. And then, sure enough, because it does happen, not on our timelines, but it happened for her 15 years later that she's like, yeah, got a really big, nice thing. There you go. Good. And she, which is great.

Yeah. But also how much greater would it have been if she could have enjoyed all of us every step of the way? Yes. And, you know, that's, I guess, too, that like, it like it just not that we not that tripping on acid made me see this but i was looking i was standing there and sudi and i were like holding hands looking at the fucking sky and i was like oh my god it doesn't matter everything is so big like it's just like we are so small and all you you have is joy and good energy you can give other people.

You know what I mean? The ego doesn't matter. We're all lucky enough to be out here healthy and doing this kind of stuff. And we get to do this shit for a check once in a while. Yeah, and how awesome that your friend got this. That got the recognition that he deserves deserves yeah and it's also just a positive in the industry yeah do you know what i mean because it's also like the more people we love whose work we love get stuff the better it

is for us yeah because that means that everything's changing well i mean hey don't think twice there you go there obviously is media already written about this. Isn't that wild that he did that? What's so crazy about that movie is Super Biglia was not from the improv world. Yeah, right. What did he want to do that movie? He had done improv in college. Right.

And then he went into stand-up and did amazingly well in stand-up. Like early 20s was on Letterman. He was, oh, right. Isn't that wild? Oh, my God. He's such a regular guy that you forget how wildly successful he is. But it's like him and Mulaney and Kroll were all in that little Georgetown coterie. Yes.

Really? Blew up. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also the thing, difference between stand up and improv is like you kind of blow up on your own. Totally. Which is wonderful.

So then he started doing improv again a few years ago. And then he did that this american life thing i mean like wasn't that it was like him like him sort of he and ira both started doing improv i think it was like at magnet or something magnet ira started taking improv classes at magnet i don't know that that was connected to berbiglia okay got it got it i don't know exactly but berbiglia did a show at the del close marathon called mike biglia's dream yes i remember this yes and i wasn't there for that right but then a few months later he was like i want to do that again and he asked gethard cool and because i lost this other job that like broke

my ego i was able to go and do that with him which was such a dream so cool okay i want to talk about this more so what are i just i i want to talk more about the these examples of the end of one opportunity just sort of like drawing a straight line to like the beginning because it always does seem like you are someplace so cool you know what i mean like damn he's running for that i mean i just the things i just listed i was like that's the um contemporary pop cultural stuff for people that love television already people that love comedy that's prestige stuff thank you I've been so

fucking lucky and it's also one of those things of like the narrative you know what I mean always feels different than the reality right right

it feels like different than how it is on the inside and the thing too so that thing of drawing a straight line that's actually a Martha Beck exercise that is

have you guys ever read her? I don't know Martha Beck. Is this like a Twyla Tharp, like an artist's way type of thing? Yes. Yes. I need it. I need it. Yes.

Yes. Steering by Starlight, Find Your North Star. Can't recommend it enough. Wow. Can't recommend it enough. Oh my God. She has so many amazing exercises. So one of them is like think of a time that you were so incredibly happy and fulfilled and like yourself and you know what I mean? And pick now a time that you were the opposite.

And then you can draw that straight line between how one thing led to the other wow and once you do that exercise you're like oh my god i did not even see that and it's a hundred percent true she also has this really cool exercise called shackles on shackles off what is this okay so this feeling of and it's hard to get yourself to do because you're like, well, I don't, because it makes you feel bad. But it's like a meditative thing where you have to think of like a time in your life and like really do it and like close your eyes and feel it in your body where you felt like you didn't belong. You felt, you know, like nobody got you, where you felt terrible about yourself and all that. And really go there and really feel it in your body and do that thing of like how does my head feel how does my neck feel you know what i mean like really find that feeling in your body

and then shake it off and then do the same thing with like a great time where you felt most and like really feel that in your body shackles off yeah yep and that shackles off and then when you are trying to decide something like how something makes you feel because it gets so convoluted she's like is this a shackles on or shackles off feeling i'm really going to your body that's really good yeah and because it really is that simple it is but it's hard to make yourself do yeah because it's also complicated because there's also sometimes it's not just a thing it's a relationship and you're like how does this relationship make me feel yeah that's a big one yeah i mean you've talked again listened to hundreds of hours of you but like your relationship with henry again

don't we've literally just really met like an hour ago but it sounds like he's a beautiful person he is that and i only know that from you but like you've also talked about like that was a relationship that was over months before it was over yeah and how hard it is to let go of that and like it's really terrifying to look at something somebody that you love that's still in your body you're like the dynamic as it is now is not right right and that's so scary to look at well i think that what i've learned is that loving someone and having that person be right for you are mutual are they are mutually exclusive or they're not mutually exclusive they're not the same they're not the same thing right um so that's what's so hard about it is knowing wow i'm not good for this person this person's not good for me unfortunately i love them like

family yeah and then i said i said recently like i actually said this on katherine and pat's podcast i said it's this thing that's happened over the past like eight months which inconveniently enough it's happened over the past eight months when i was dealing with a lot of other stuff where it's like you really have to move on from this relationship i had to tell myself like because i had not and um he sort of moved on and um so i was like wow it's like this feeling that you have that you have to actively decide to just put away you know what i mean it's this thing that's never going to because it's like this feeling that you have that you have to actively decide to just put away you know what i mean it's this thing that's never going to because it's like it's like

something in the world that feeling already takes up space and so it's never going to not take up space but you have to decide to take it and like put it in the back of the closet and maybe you don't shut the door of the closet maybe the doors will open but whatever but you do have to just put it away but that feeling for someone else doesn't go away and that's what's hard but it's like it's something i never understood it's meditation it's like what thoughts that you like it's letting the thoughts go by or set that old like native american thing the two wolves oh no no no i was just i was just responding to you linking this back to this meditative practice of just letting something go yeah where you're like oh just because i have a thought i don't have to dwell in it it's just

gonna go by like a car in the road right i mean if you're if you're talking in these terms matt of putting something away in a closet if you're like giving it some vague like temporal thing like that like i think that just means that you're displacing that feeling and you're going to address it later on this this sounds so abstract but like just i mean i feel like letting it just go and dropping it completely just not caring where it lands might be like just just see how that feels yeah because there's also something so loaded about saying I'm putting it in the closet, especially... Given your experience of a closet.

With the closet, you're right, even that imagery. I will say this, you know what I've discovered? Muting on Instagram. Muting on Instagram has saved my life a little bit. Because now I tweeted to all the boys I've muted on Instagram. I'm just kind of like if that's if i if i get like an obsessive feeling about like someone i mute them yeah if somebody

hurts me i mute them if someone's not good for me i just mute them and it's crazy that social media even has this power and i was talking about feeling a little depressed a couple months ago and sudi was like it's social media i think especially like when you start to get a little bit more attention it's exciting because social media is like hi like we're all we're all looking and then it's like whoa that's also not real and it heightens all these kinds of emotions that you would ordinarily have so the muting has been big my friend and i we talked about it like big max where it like feels really good and then you feel like hell. Hell. It's Big Macs.

It's Big Macs. It's Big Macs is the title. Title of that. It's Big Macs. Okay. You mentioned earlier that a lot of times the narrative doesn't match up with what's going on on the inside. I mean, you don't have to get into too much detail what's like for you when someone comes up to you and says oh my god tammy what a what an amazing sort of resume what a background what a pedigree like i mean what is like what what is the thing that

you're dying to tell to like the personal highlight out of the stuff that you've done oh oh yeah sure that i was going to a positive direction. Sorry, I was. But yeah, no, go positive. Sorry, don't listen to me. No, no, no. I'm not sure what I would say. Yeah. Personal highlight. I'm not sure what I would say for personal highlight. Like, honestly, probably personal highlight

is some improv shows that I've done. You're also one of the best. Well, that's really kind. But getting to like like there's some like shows that I've done where I was like wow like that felt moving and that felt moving for

those of us on stage and for those of us in the audience and I also love how ethereal it is I love that it's fully gone and it's just yeah I do love that and's fully gone. And it's just, yeah, yeah, I do love that. And in terms of like what, it's funny, people say like, looking at the resume,

it feels a little like social media to me, where it's like, you have a very specific idea of what my life has felt like because you've seen the jobs. But it's, you know, you don't see the eight months where i wasn't working and didn't know where the next job would be and like how terrifying that was yeah we're also like it's funny like and we do it ourselves in our lives but like looking back at my 20s i'm like oh my god that was the best but i remember being in my 20s and being like, what the fuck is happening? And I don't know what my job is gonna be

and all that. And like, yeah, where you're just like, oh, but it was so great because it was just about the joy of it. And you're like, no, there was so much fear and uncertainty. It is, it's very rose colored glasses.

Like, but I mean, you sort of can't help but have that weird misty eyed thing about it it's like oh it was this formative thing but you didn't know it back then but I definitely try to then turn it back onto what I'm doing now like especially when I'm feeling like then I definitely try to be like Tammy of how many years ago how would she feel like that she gets to do this and like getting that attitude of gratitude that is a huge exercise i think where it's like whenever i start to feel

really bad i'm like hold on a second and i actually like this is maybe sounds a little gross but sometimes i will list the things i've accomplished not gross just for myself fully healthy and i look at it and i'm like fuck yeah like i did all i did so many other things i wanted to do honestly like it's like when i was like you guys are the future of comedy no you're just comedy i'm just the end of comedy but like i do feel like such a like a kinship to you guys and like to you like how i was in my 20s do you know what i mean i mean i've been i i like this is so crazy but like when we had fran gillespie on the show i said to her i was like you were the improviser that i used to seek out you know

what i mean like when i was going to ucb classes and there was also you i mean i remember tammy ad and spo that was one of my favorite shows that i had seen and then tammy and spo did it did it like a two-prong show like a couple years back at dcm right or was it tammy was it always tammy adian spell it was it was tammy and shannon have friends and so yeah yes okay so that was just so great and like and just it's crazy to even be like that my friends that i'm friends with brandon scott jones you know what i mean i totally get it that i'm friends with josh harper and aaron jackson you know it's just like, and I think they would like roll their eyes

and say, okay, bitch, and me saying that. But like, really, that's those things that that is meaningful. I mean,

and you guys and like all those people are the people that inspired, I know us to even do what we felt was like in our hearts

to do in comedy. You know what I mean? But it's by doing what you guys feel in your hearts like this podcast feels so true and that's like what people respond to and that's like why i do feel like kelly clarkson is gonna be on like that's how it's gonna happen can i tell you why i think i love her so much and i know why it's because she broke out i think i've told you this when she like broke out i was 12 and so i think i had just found realized i was gay at 11 when did you realize

you were gay oh i can't put a time to it it's so funny well you try also you i don't know that you've ever talked about conversion therapy on the podcast not on the main not on the main pod um yeah wait what's the non-main pod there's our uh patreon yeah yeah yeah i've done so are you still not gonna talk about it no i'm happy i'm happy to talk about you guys it's a patreon exclusive because we do the rupel's drag race recaps on patreon yes a contestant this year dusty ray bottoms talked in depth about going through conversion therapy and so when we were reviewing that episode bowen did detail a little bit of his experience um but yeah uh and it's so funny because it was something that i thought i had like rearview mirrored behind me for all these years i was like i'm i'm so past

that i'm a i'm living out loud how did it happen so it was um it was the first sort of outing which wasn't even an outing was just my parents finding this like saucy like i am transcript and then with who with just some random guy and on the internet on the internet just it was a gay robot it was a gay robot it might as well it might as well have been and then um so they found that um and it was just like two weeks of just coming home to like my parents like crying us like us all crying at the dinner table i'd only see my dad cry once before this when my grandpa died and then i would just come home to him crying every day and it was like what i was like i i was and then eventually you're just like i have to fix this and so you'll do anything responsibility totally and then and then my

parents uh just having this sort of gap in cultural understanding, which I don't begrudge them for at all. They were just like, well, this is a problem. And what do we do? We fix it. P.S. There's plenty of Native Americans, not Native Americans, white Americans. Who do the same. Yeah. Totally.

And so, you know, they found this group in Denver. They found this guy in Colorado Springs who went by an alias and who like had very just had a very sort of. Why did he go by an alias? Because they constantly get harassed by like activist groups and that are trying to do the right thing and shut this thing. I love that he is cloaked in shame. Yes. Yes.

He's in himself closeted. He's literally cloaked in shame doing this thing where he is cloaked in shame yes yes he's in himself closeted he's literally cloaked in shame doing this thing where he's telling that in shame right exactly exactly there are so many layers of shame to this because um but anyway it was he was in colorado springs like we're focused on the family as like all these like mega churches are super religious religiously fertile place and is your older sister is she like off in college at this point? She's off in college at this point. She's trying to, and Yang, I think she's listening.

She's trying to sort of straddle the line and sort of play to both sides. And she's, she, I don't give her the credit, but she really had to moderate and mediate a lot of stuff back then. And from far away. From far away.

Yeah. She was doing something like, I. And having her own formative experiences in college. Totally. Like she,

you know, for her to sort of be like, like, you know, sort of lured into this other thing. But that's so like, it's, I think it's very different

being Chinese. Yes. But being Israeli and like we moved when I was three and my brother was 13 and my sister was eight like it's also like you feel like your siblings are the only ones who really get it with your parents and so even like when my parents were being wrong i still fundamentally felt like they were being right do you know what i mean so it's also like i would be surrounded by

people being like that's insane that's ridiculous and being like well but you have to see it from their point of view right so that's where a sibling really comes in because they see it from their point of view that's essentially what she did and then at first my response was just was to lash out and be like how can you like like how can you sort of not pick pick a side like how can you try to understand them because because you're your dad because you're the one who's in pain i'm the one yeah but it's also but so are they so are they and it's so unbearable so yeah so so just would would you know drive an hour and a half each way with my dad and then those were i mean those were actually bonding experiences between me and my dad weirdly where we would just have like

conversations that had nothing to do with it's like three hours of one-on-one car time. Which is like, you know, fraught and whatever. But that wasn't even, I mean, that was like the highlight of the whole thing. Because the sessions themselves were just, I mean, they started out as just plain old therapy, like talk therapy. With somebody with a really fucked up agenda. Totally. Someone with like, you know, quacky diplomas on the wall. And then by the end,

that was when he started this exercise of just let's walk through all these different times you felt attracted towards a man. How did you feel in your body? He would just try to apply these like, just like, like, didn't you feel terrible about yourself while you were attracted to this person? That's what the source is. And then by the end,

when in your adolescence do you feel anything sexual and not feel horrible crazy already totally and then that's true for everybody

true for everyone and then the last session was when he was just trying to like just like give me some parting wisdom about the whole experience

wait so was there like we're gonna do 20 sessions or was it like it was limited because the timing of it was I was going to college immediately after this this is the summer before college summer before nyu getting you all closeted for nyu such a fur and your parents just being like oh my god we have to do this

well um and then but the the nyu thing came out of and it's so funny that just everything that's happening now is is sort of like a result of that is butterfly affected out of that but as my sister was already at NYU so she was sort of the watchful eye and that's like another thing that like she was foisted with and that we haven't talked about but anyway you need to do acid with her I need to do acid with her

she's a mom I don't know she's a mom but we'll find a sitter but she she's not frustrating anymore no totally but but uh the last session he just tries to like he just starts going into this anecdote about a former patient of his i.e him who well he's and he starts he narrates in the third person he was like so the sky is driving down the highway in california gets off at san bernardino it's 2 a.m he stops by denny's and then he looks up in the waiters there and the waiter starts

making eyes at him. And and then he switches to the first person. And then he's like and I was like, am I really going to have sex with this guy? Like starts to sort of and then catches himself like mid story being like, oh, I just I just outed myself. Oh, my God. This was a couple of months ago. And like this is a couple of months ago and like this is a couple months ago

like like this is a couple months before like before this before this last session with him yeah he said this had just happened so this had just happened and then it was like very obvious to me that i was like oh this is all a fucking sham yeah so thank god you got that little peak totally where you're like this does not work does not work and even the person who is administering this kind of quote-unquote treatment that i literally i saw boy erased we need this movie oh stop and then one million percent like that honestly i i was just like you gotta write this you gotta write this i don't know write this you will one day you will one day and the best part was after like my dad had very politely been like, if you have any sort of referrals for people who do this in New York, we would love that.

And then the funniest to me, this is the funniest thing in the world. After our session ends, we're saying our goodbyes. And then he pulls out the sheet of paper and he goes, so these are the names I was able to find of people who do this in New York. But, you know,

it's not a lot of, it's not a lot of people. And the closest person is in New Haven, know like some like connecticut town like 50 miles away and it was like oh yeah okay this isn't we're not gonna keep this going because people don't do this like in new york and they just don't do this in general like he was i don't know and no wonder there was no one in new york because that you wouldn't be able to a keep that practice running in new york and be like they're you're exposed to the fucking right things what's so terrifying to me about like okay that's so obvious and blah blah blah and then it's our fucking vice president yeah it's somebody who absolutely believes in it and

puts money into it and you're just like yeah i don't know so anyway that's that's the whole sort of when did you come out to your parents for real and we're like for real um this was beginning of senior year of college so it was so there was it was like me kind of going back into the closet after my sister graduates that semester i come out to all my friends, like I.E. Matt and the rest of the comedy people at NYU, and then spend about a year and a half closeted again. Or closeted to my parents, but out to everyone else. And then that sort of... I remember when you even came out at college, it was like something you had said,

but it was like we were to take it with a grain of salt. It felt like that. Really? It was like not confirmed information. Oh, interesting. Yeah. What do you mean? Like it was like not confirmed information interesting yeah what do you mean like it was like it was we had heard that he had come out and went back in the closet before

and this is not when we were as close as we are now yeah yeah this is when you were fighting over that girl that poor girl that girl is like oh my god just like i have no one in my life i know she's doing great but i met you i met you when we were both quote unquote straight right and then you were i was gay first and then you were gay but we were told that you had been also gay two years before and then you went back to the closet and so we no one was really could be sure oh my god that's so funny I don't know if I can trust him. Oh my god, it's so college. It's so college. Wait, we have to ask Tammy the question. We haven't

even asked Tammy the question. Let me put my button on what I said before, which was the reason I like Kelly Clarkson is because being 12, I saw someone, America fall in love with someone for being who they were. And I thought, wow, maybe someday someone will fall in love with me for who I am. so then i like was like well not yet but maybe one day i'll come out

of the closet and then then i can be kelly clark's own levels of beloved but you saw her and you hung you hung that hope on her in a way she was huge for me because she was i just saw like america fall in love with her and she seemed like you know at the time i think i was very easily manipulated by that shit but it's like she was the perfect george w bush era girl next door but she wasn't because she was also being told non-stop she was too big yeah like by like by the gatekeepers by sam you know simon cowell very easily felt like it could be justin guarini you know what i mean i think i wouldn't have been surprised either way but i think i mean if it is rigged which i'm sure those shows are um i think they made the right quote-unquote right decision um and i right reg like but um yeah i think that the reason she's

been so lasting is because i think there's an entire generation of of women who look at her and they say you know what i don't have like a stick thin physique my weight fluctuates and i think a lot of gay men do attach to her because i think at a very formative time like she was like relentlessly herself and her personality and i think everyone kind of just like really gravitated towards that she's just authentic in a way and also obviously incredibly supernaturally talented but I do feel like that authenticity even more than the fans that it attracts because as you are seeing on social media people liking you is a fickle fucking beast yeah and will change and you just cannot it's like uh I think it's an Al-Anon thing that my friend said to me was like other people's opinions of you are none of your business doesn't matter and I was like wait but it's like uh i think it's an alan on thing that my friend said to me was like other people's

opinions of you are none of your business doesn't matter and i was like wait but it's literally my business and she's like it's really not you think it is it's literally none of your business and you can lose your mind about it oh my god but like her being authentically herself i feel like is what has made her be consistently able to make music right you know what i mean and whether or not people like the music is and she'll always remind you how good she is like that's the thing is it's like she's never gonna stay in the limelight because of a stunt she pulled she's gonna stay in the limelight because she was fucking she gave an amazing performance on some show you know what i mean or like like that's the thing is like it feels like every three years like she has like a viral moment like when she sang it at obama's second inauguration my country

it was like just so unbelievable and that that's more famous for being i love it because i don't remember it at all i don't remember hearing about it and you're like everybody knows well no first of all i'm happy to put the spotlight back on it because go go check out that everybody remembers nobody's thinking about beyonce performing at that inauguration beyonce that was the one where she famously lip-synced to the national anthem and kelly sang live oh my god you're really gonna i'm sorry but it's true it's not a jab it's just people remember it for being that but also that was a moment for kellyson as well. People remember. Oh my gosh. So it also,

like having just seen Larry Owens perform and like starting to cry just as he's about to go on stage, I was like, what is it about this? And it's like, oh, it's because talent will out. Do you know what I mean?

It's like, and it's not even about like what other people say. It's like how much I've internalized that shit. Yes. And just like, I feel like Kelly Clarkson, I'm sure she internalized shit, but she also didn't let it shut her up.

Yeah. And she is outspoken too. Very outspoken. Let's ask the question. Let's ask the question. Tammy Sager, what was the culture that made you say culture is for me? Honestly,

second city. Cause we saw it when I was a kid. Like I grew up in Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We grew up and my. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We grew up, and my parents would go to Second City, and this is at the time where, like, you'd go, and they would sort of decide where you sit.

Uh-huh. And my mom would fully lie about not being able to hear well, so we'd sit right up front. Yes. Who would you see? I was way too young. I saw Steve Carell. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. And Bonnie Hunt, and Dan Castellaneta. Wow, I love Bonnie. Dan Castellaneta, too. Yeah. Oh, my God. Mary Gross. young i saw steve carell i yeah bonnie hunt and wow i love that dan caslanetta yeah mary gross so like tim kazarensky like since i was a little kid wow and did not understand most of this stuff but no i fully remember seeing steve carell and steve colbert were in a show together oh my god where they did the they did the waiter bit maybe or was that before or after that? Anyway. That's so amazing. I don't remember the waiter bit. The waiter bit where they're just like, they're explaining the specials of the night

and they just, for some reason, it makes them super nauseous. So they're just like on the verge of vomiting as they're describing these. Oh, that's so funny. I don't remember that. That's so funny. But wait, that's, oh my God.

So what was the biggest difference between, okay, we'll talk about. But also I have to say like seeing second city and being like and this is also when people in second city weren't blowing up like even like maybe they'd get snl maybe like that was the biggest thing but it wasn't like judd apatow times totally totally so i remember seeing steve carell and being like oh that's so sad he's never gonna be anything because he's so talented yeah and then it was like oh he's on the dana carvey show that doesn't last you know more than a minute and then it was like when he fucking got 40 year old virgin or even like when anchor man happened yeah oh wait a minute oh so yeah and then you but you were pretty much ingrained in that system at that point, maybe?

Not even. So I was a math major at U of C, and I really didn't see how it was going to happen. But then I wrote a paper about improv. So then I got into the improv group there. And that's when I was like, I love this so much. Tammy, I mean, you are basically, yeah, I totally spaced. I knew you were a math major at UFC, but I totally spaced on just this, the trajectory being like not necessarily a straight line either for you. It didn't feel like it.

And it didn't feel like I would ever get anything. And it also felt like, I remember when I was like, I got it. I'm going to submit to some shows and like somebody from daily show had like fully told the producer and i was on main stage you know which is like the highest that you can get and like said like we're looking for writers and the producer there didn't he decided who he wanted to tell to submit and i wasn't one of the people wow but i you know like and and this is what I've I haven't taught a ton but when I have taught I've always been like don't worry about impressing me

there's a million people that I'm trying to bring up right now but I'm like but everything that I've gotten has been through people that I've come up with yeah so Alison Silverman who's a brilliant writer and you know one of the of the original people at Colbert. But she was at The Daily Show and she worked there. And she got that, who knows? I still don't quite understand how she got it. Because she got it from working on You Don't Know Jack, a game show on a video game.

We just played You Don't Know Jack last night. With Pat! Oh my gosh. The newest one, the fifth one. Sorry. She worked on that as a video game. And especially in Chicago at that time felt like you were nowhere. And I was like, how did you get The Daily Show?

And she's like, there's certain types of year that you submit. I'll tell you when. She told me when. And it was like, and I got that job offer. But I also then got the job offer at MADtv. And then I chose mad tv which i'm still like okay i did that yeah but it was also because i didn't i didn't fundamentally want to write sketch or jokes i wanted to write longer narrative stuff and i just like it was

very hard decision i had that like 24 hours of like what am i gonna do sure sure and then uh yeah and then i decided to go man it was also this is how long ago it was but it was right before it was before daily show was union right oh that's it was pre-9-11 and that tv was yeah yeah yeah there you go and it became i mean it's coming central but it became Union very soon thereafter got it got it wow yeah yeah I'm curious about what was the gap between you

graduating college with a math degree and you thinking I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this comedy thing it's weird because

so I I got hired for something called Boom Chicago which is oh right was that Amsterdam yes

was this close to going? I was like in a final callback for that. Oh, my God. I thought this might have been the thing. That was like four years ago. Yeah, it's so funny. I didn't know that you did that. I did.

Oh, wow. What was that experience like? It was really good. It was the third year, so it wasn't even year round. Now they sign people for several year long contracts. Yeah, it was a two year thing. It was like a two year commitment. Mine was like seven months wow oh yeah and it was like you fully had to go and hand out newspapers that like advertising the show like you had to do two

hours it's called cranting for every show you did and i was so bad at it that i ended up like doing bookkeeping like can i do this but i got it while i was still in college wow great and it actually was the beginning of turning things around with my dad because things were really bad with my dad and i got this i wasn't supposed to we had this fucked up agreement where i wasn't supposed to do any theater and it was but at this point then i was in therapy and my therapist we had gone to therapy with my parents and me and then it was just turned into therapy with me so then it was like she kind of had this role of like she knew my parents yeah so I didn't have to spend the whole time defending them did that make sense

and explaining what the dynamics was so we had this fucked up agreement where I could live not at home as long as I did not do any theater, which included even taking like a class. And she was just like, yeah, they just want you to lie. Like they've set up a situation where you lie. And I was like, okay.

So I performed under the ridiculous stage name of Sadie Cohen. Cause I was like, everyone. Sadie Cohen. Title of Sadie Cohen. And like, PS, like I needed a stage name,

but I got this job and it meant meant like oh shit I'm gonna have to go to Amsterdam I'm gonna have to leave college before I graduate um and I remember calling my brother who's 10 years older than me yeah being like how do I do this because what I was gonna do is just call and be like I got this I'm going yeah bye wow and he was like, instead of asking Abba for permission, ask him what he thinks. Okay. Like, not asking for permission. I'm asking for advice. And so I did.

Wow. And it wasn't like, can I do this? It was like, hey, this happened. Didn't get into the details of all the auditions that I should not have been doing. And. Or what a selective process that is. Yeah. So he could understand that it was like a real... Well, again, this is how long ago it was.

It was like when there was this book called Let's Go, like Let's Go Europe. And they had just had a shout out in Let's Go Europe. So it was like this like... Yeah, it was a real thing. Prestige thing. And so he was like, okay, let me think, you know. and then he came to the conclusion like i should go wow okay well i'm going anyway so who was there while you were there um so this was before seth meyers like he went the year before

he went the year after i should say yeah yeah yeah amazing um yeah that's great he's one of the ones they say now you're like and seth myers oh no that he was the one who broke it open for like everybody yeah but but then coming back from that you know and also i started college young and i'm born in december so i was there at like 20 so even though i'd like taken time off from school and graduated like it all ended up being okay and then i got back and i got second city within a couple of months right because at that point they they knew like you had been real seasoned by you can just tell on the audition you can just tell that somebody's like been on stage

yeah and uh so i really was really lucky so i just came back and i just finished up school i just had like a class yeah yeah so i finished up and had a gig great but you finished up just and graduated with the degree yeah yeah yeah great amazing i mean not that like either way no no but i was you know i didn't have a high school diploma so uh it was important that i get a college diploma so cool i mean a math major at university of chicago would have a math degree from university of chicago would have made my dad like oh my god i can't even tell you how much i understand all of that stuff and like seeing a fucking father cry it's a very similar totally it is it is trajectory it's you know yeah it's it It's intense. An immigrant father crying is like,

something happened. Would you know how much they've sacrificed? Oh, yeah. And this is the thing. Okay, and just to really quickly loop it back to like the parental thing with the conversion therapy thing. I'm reading Joy Luck Club right now.

It's all about mothers and daughters and forgiving each other and daughters forgiving their mothers about wrongs and the other way around. It's the most beautiful thing. Just to like not care. I don't like, I don't hold it against I truly don't hold it against them.

And it takes a long time to get to that place. It took me so long to get to that place because for a while I even wrote a terrible solo show about this. I did try to write this in some sort of It was not terrible. It wasn't great. It was a reflection of where you were at. It was too soon and there were no of... It was not terrible. It wasn't great. It was probably too soon. It was a reflection of where you were at. It was too soon, and there were no jokes.

It was part of a comedy solo show festival, and it was just no jokes, devoid of jokes. I would say there could have been more jokes. Sure, there you go. I don't know if there were none. Very diplomatic. As Larry would say,

it was still hilarious, even though you had no jokes. He still trusted me on stage. Oh, my God. So, yeah, I mean, at that point, I hadn't forgiven them, and now it's like, still hilarious even though you had no jokes still trusted me on stage um i and so yeah i mean at that point i hadn't forgiven them and now it's like oh i read the joy luck club and the audience can tell you know what i mean the audience can tell when you've forgiven and they don't it doesn't they're not they're uncomfortable when we're uncomfortable it's chilly yeah they're chilled um tammy i have to ask you before before

you move on i don't think and then i have to i have i have to ask you as well okay i just i really want to know so i just really want to know tammy um what is like like say you're uh just writer creator of of your own show what what is that because i'm so curious to know this just having this such a diverse like granularly diverse sort of resume and not to like bring that back up, but like I am so curious to know like what like the Tammy Sager sort of imprimatur is. I don't know.

And it's actually been like a real like sticking point. And I recently, and I'll talk to you guys about this off pod because you're connected to it funnily enough. But like when I feel like i have no ideas it is such a dark dark feeling but like right now i just don't care about my story do you know what i mean and it's also just like i don't i i just don't i just don't i just it's that time where i'm like i care about some other people's stories and so i just i've been listening

to something i'm like oh i think this is a show got it but I don't know what my show is well I don't well I'm not even necessarily asking like what is the Tammy Sager show no no I know what you mean right right right but even this where I'm like this is a show that I feel like I could run with these and I'm inspired by these people but like I don't even know that's fine that's that's it okay. I mean, I, yeah, I thought like during this break from,

from SNL that I would have all these ideas and I would work on all this stuff and like, whatever, like I have all these premises thought out, but like, didn't even feel compelled to like put pen to paper. No, you gotta fill the well sometimes. I think the scary thing about like the past, like maybe not year, like past like eight months for me it's just like

i've always every year just always spit out so much creative stuff like you know me i know you like and like i'm always creating and this year and this kind of like last eight months i think because i have a lot of stuff personally going on it's just so much going on up here and i think that's why i need a therapist i haven't created as much and that's got me in such like a funk you need you need to fill the well yeah fill the well yeah and also stop beating yourself up for like what your perceived production is because it's also like as somebody who listens i'm like you're producing all the time well that's another thing it's just like like we sat around the table at our acid trip and they're like everyone say one good thing that you're proud of over the past year and they all went around and it was coming to me and i was like oh

my god i have nothing to say i don't know what to say but it's not i have nothing to say and i just started crying i was like i was like oh no and then and then literally as i was there i was like wait hold on a second like this is classic and me like killing myself for no reason but that's also why it's great that you're with people who love you who know you yeah be like this is classic and me like killing myself for no reason but that's also why it's great that you're with people who love you who know you yeah be like this and also this and also this it was important um yeah it's just like i that's like something i shout out to everyone as much as i can it's like go easy on yourself y'all we're all trying our best and do drugs oh my god i would never no the thing is like i also really don't think that's like i feel weird

about saying this i was just like because we're so honest on this podcast something like when on when it's too honest too honest um but i'm like you don't need to do drugs to get there people don't don't yeah oh no and i fully i don't you know what i mean like and actually like me getting high shut me down so hard i think, I think there's also something to that. Yeah, so no. I just think there's no blanket thing for anybody. No, that's very true. Well, what's your have to ask?

Oh, here's what I have to ask. What was Katherine Heigl like? Oh my God. Okay, so I've wanted to tell you this. This and also the, oh, I have two things to tell you. That and also about Tyra Banks. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and also about Tyra Banks Catherine Heigl

was a fucking delight and she was loved on set like whatever I was there for a matter of hours but like Judd loved her like she was a delight this was the first time I'd filmed anything so I fully yelled my lines

because they were in the other room so I was like it's fine i was just like she was like i felt like she was whispering to me and then i was like fully projecting so they could hear me and then judd like he was just like just a little smaller just a little smaller and i was like oh he means just like whisper just like so then i just like concentrate on talking really quiet like that screen was- Screen acting is just talking quietly. Oh my God. Alec Baldwin, like straight up just whispers.

That's what Tina says too, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Bossy Pan, she's like, he just like speaks at a low whisper and a low decibel. And then you're like, oh, but it's all there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's part of it too, where you're just like, because especially as a live performer, you're like, oh, okay, well I'm selling it.

It's time to perform. And it's like all those instincts, just shut it down and just like trust that your eyes. Yeah. Well, just be as hard because then you're just like, I'm really big and just be. I'm big too. No, but then it's like, if you just concentrate on talking really quietly, like it all just sort of happens.

It just happened right now. Right. You just like, it's weird. I got pulled in. I was like, whoa. I know. It's so, but it was like, if you just told me to like to be small or pulled in i was like whoa well i know it's so but it was like if you just told me like to be small or whatever i'd be like i can't but if you're just like just

so she was she was a delight she was loved on set she was loved on set she was a delight and then it was such a bummer when that it came out because you guys were just talking about it because it was also like it wasn't like a few months after it came it was also like, it wasn't like a few months after it came out. She was like, oh, it'd have been cool if my, it was like opening weekend. She was like, it was a bummer and all this. I was like, oh dude. Here's what I think.

I think she could have, I think a bunch of things could have happened. She could have waited to maybe express that particular opinion, even if it was justified. Right. I think everyone could have maybe read that whole article even if it was justified right i think everyone could have maybe read that whole article because there is context involved so not with you on this i think that i think that judd and seth were way too harsh on her they were not though at the time at the time they really handled it graciously you think a hundred percent they're still talking about it like as of recently though i think that's i feel like people ask them about it but also consider how much fucking work that they did yeah like

when you're directing and writing a movie and like somebody who's fully acted in like one and a half things but like it's so much easier yeah do you know what i mean? And it's like, she got to come in and be a star of a movie that the other star was like hustling and writing and doing all this work when the director is doing, and he's also like

throwing all this stuff out and then editing for a million months. It was their baby. They have done so much work. And then she gets to be a fucking movie star

off of it and she won an Emmy basically for that movie she didn't win for that season of Grey's Anatomy I'll tell you she wore because

the buzz had been such a groundswell the buzz had hit and it was time to order she benefited from that movie in huge ways and then the thing

like the thing that really sells me of like dude this is on Catherine not on them at all is what she fucking did to the writers of grace

you're right that was very revealing that was trash that was beyond it was trash but I'll say this but were you the

one who were like I love that she took herself out of consideration because you thought she was being generous I thought she was

doing what because when I was that was like you don't have to announce it you just do it just do it you know

some people do do this where if they win the next season they will they'll pull themselves out of themselves for And I was, that was like. Also, you don't have to announce it. You just do it. Just do it. Just do it. Some people do do this, where if they win the next season, they will remove themselves from consideration. Totally unceremoniously. Especially on a show like Grey's Anatomy, where there's many other actresses that are deserving of

and often nominated for that very same award. And so I thought to myself, when it was announced that she was removing herself from consideration, I thought she's being kind to Sandra Oh and Chandra Wilson who and at the time Kate Walsh who really

could have won that award and she could have come in on that angle she could have totally been like absolutely but she had to be nasty she had to be nasty and you can tell that was when I was like oh maybe now the knocked up thing does seem weird. And also, like, who is she being nasty to?

Do you know what I mean? Because, like, also when she isn't. The people who bust their ass to write for her, which sucks. Who bust their ass, like, six days a week when she's working, what, three days a week? And, like, I know the single cam life is hard. Writer's life is longer hours. There you go. And you're not getting anything for free.

And you're not getting your photo taken and all that. I mean, yeah. And to do that to them after they got you an Emmy, it's just so shitty. It's crazy. I wasn't given the material to warrant a nomination. Nobody asked you. How dare you?

And also, it's like on a show like that where they're trying to write for like 12 cast members. Yeah. Yeah. And all the things that they must have done. And like, how much did she get from getting that Emmy? You know what I mean? All the free stuff she's getting. right for like 12 cast members yeah yeah and all the things that they must have done and like how much did she get from getting that i mean you know what i mean all the free stuff she's getting all the more money she's getting all of that but yeah no she's nobody's been her bigger enemy than

herself yeah there you go this is why you need someone an insider like tammy sager that's why i wanted to ask the question because i i did like honestly it's this thing that has followed her for so long and i do think there is a sexist element to it because i do think that men have done way worse and literally been nominated for best director at the oscars after their indiscretions but i will say it's hard for me though because i'm just like i i don't want a female asshole to get away with it just Just because male assholes got away with it. I think you're right. I just think assholes just shouldn't get away with it.

I think if she is indeed confirmed an asshole, which the things that she said are asshole-ish. I mean, she also does nice things. She organizes planes for chihuahuas. You know what I mean? I think people contain multitudes. Yes, I think she contains multitudes. But as a writer, I would never want to write for her. Because, I think she contains multitudes. But I just, as a writer,

I would never want to write for her. Because I just feel like you will shoot. Because the asshole jumped out. And it jumps out after a year of work. It didn't jump out at the beginning. No. The asshole jumped out. The asshole.

It was a jump out. It wasn't a slow crawl. Nobody is asking you. And we do know where that comes from, right? So when people say the so-and-so jumped out that comes from on charme school saying to pumpkin was it pumpkin she said your behavior this evening was horror like the horror jumped out and then it jumped back in but it jumped out um the horror jumped out i mean truly that is this is what reality TV is made for

and the fact that it has had that lasting impact, huge. Can't believe Monique won an Oscar for Precious and not that moment. And not that moment. An Oscar for a VH1 reality show. It's time for I Don't Think So, Honey. I really struggled with

my I Don't Think So, Honey. I'm sure. So much self-hate went into it. Oh! No, because I'm telling you, I've listened to hundreds of them within a matter of months and then fully left it until this

morning. This is what we do all the time. We regularly do this. Mine is barely written, so let's Should I go first? You should go first. I have something very... Mine is potentially very dumb, but we're gonna go. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think Sony's time starts now. I don't think so, honey, when people say, hey, it's me.

No, bitch! You better say your name, it's me. No, bitch. You better say your name if it's the 90s, which is when a lot of people did this. Hey, it's me. It's me. I just picked up the phone. Do I have your voice memorized?

Oftentimes, the hey, it's me-ers, I don't think so, honey, then because I don't know you. I don't know you. If I do, you can just say, hey, hey, it's me. Who's me? Especially hey, it's me nowadays.

Yeah, bitch, I know who you are. I have a cell phone that says your name on it. I don't need to hear hey hey it's me who's me especially hey it's me nowadays yeah bitch i know who you are i have a cell phone that says your name on it i don't need to hear hey it's me just start the conversation everyone's time is very valuable hey it's me no you have a name that your mother gave you and your mother and your father and whoever whomever named you spent a long time hey timmy it's Matt and that is respectful to my parents 15 seconds hey it's me hey it's me also I don't like

the cadence of it hey it's me like it's just like okay this is too familiar wow especially if we maybe if we just got off the phone

and then it got disconnected and then you come back then hey it's me otherwise I don't think so and that's one minute wow so okay

masterful down to the second would you ever call me and then say hey it's me. Otherwise, I don't think so, hun. And that's one minute. Wow. So, okay. Masterful down to the second. Masterful down to the second. Would you ever call me and then say, hey, it's me? I'd be like, hey, and I'd just get right into it. And you'd get right into it. And that's why you're worth it.

Worth it to talk to. This is an interesting thing. So for people who you do know, who you are familiar with, you would rather they just cut to the chase. But for people you don't know, they have to introduce themselves to you. Yes.

Interesting. Nothing in between. Hey, it's me. No. Hey, it's me is the in-between. And you don't want, they have to introduce themselves to you. Yes. Interesting. Nothing in between. Hey, it's me. No. Hey, it's me is the in-between. And you don't want that liminal space anywhere. Here's where hey, it's me rears its head the most in voicemails. Sure.

And it's like, I know. Hey, it's me. But here's the thing. I know nowadays. And then hey, it's me back in the day when you didn't necessarily know who was calling. I don't always have people's. I'm such a procrastinator that I don't always have people's, I'm such a procrastinator that I don't always put people's phone numbers in,

even like it takes one second. So I sometimes just have a phone number. And that's why you need them to say who they are. Yeah, don't assume. Hey, it's me. Yeah, just don't assume. Hey, it's me is never okay. Never okay.

Absolutely. Thank you, Matt. That was inspired. Thank you for giving me the space. Okay. I have one. It's very loose. All right, it's very loose. Very loose, Matt. That was inspired. Thank you for giving me the space. Okay. I have one. It's very loose. All right.

It's very loose. Very loose. The Bowen Yang story. Oh. And his time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Getting motherfucking stamps in New York City. I was trying to mail in my absentee ballot for Colorado, sweetie, yesterday.

And it took me seven different locations to finally pick up a sheet of stamps here was here's the rundown the post office on atlantic avenue right by my apartment the line was egregious i said no i don't have the time for this went to three different bodegas they all said no we don't went to three different chain of pharmacies your cvs's your duane reeds your walgreens none of them had stamps and yet the USPS website said falsely claims that they do and yet and I was lied to by the internet which

I mean nowadays is hack when the internet lies to you it's two on the nose 15 seconds so finally I go into Manhattan go to the post office on Varick and thank goodness the lovely gentleman there gave me a sheet of stamps.

And this is not too... Five seconds, finish strong. The Postal Service is wonderful. They were the first line of defense for all these explosives that went out to all these Democratic leaders. And that's one minute.

Oh my God. So there you go. So I love it. I love a 55 second negative. I don't think so. I think it's in a five second, but thank you for saving lives. But to my heroes, the Postal Service. But also, the Post Office, they usually have. Five second. But thank you for saving. But to my heroes,

the postal service, but also post office. They usually have like a vending machine. I live for a vending machine in New York City. I saw I saw Nary a vending machine in these post offices. But that's what can we say? Tammy. So I wrote something not psyched about it.

Felt like I overthought it and went. No, no, stop this. I know it's going to be brilliant. No, it's not. It tried too hard. No, no. I'm going to read it. Whatever, whatever.

I don't want people to apologize. It's literally 100 out of 100 times whenever people say this. No, whatever, whatever. It's a never enough moment where we always want more. I Don't Think So Honey is a low ceiling, high floor for success. This is Tammy Sager. Okay. This is Tammy Sager's I. This is Tammy Sager's.

I don't think so. Honey. Her time starts now. I don't think so. Honey. Me ending up in this shittiest of all timelines where the Cubs one was the first time of the simulator getting lazy, flipping some switches that never should have been flipped, feeling the outer edges of the Truman Show glitches just in the names of who we are dealing with.

Like the few Republican senators willing to once in a while stand up. His name is Jeff Flake. Seriously, Flake. And he's not even going to bother running again. Flakes. Ivana and Ivanka. And the feeling like there are no repercussions for any misbehavior except for the arbitrary swats of the universe fly swatter

that somehow managed to splatter Al Franken's body against the walls of the U.S. Senate. Bill Clinton is still doing a book tour. No no one cares and nobody blinks an eye when number 45 doesn't decry the murder of a saudi journalist but instead says second that was the worst cover-up ever and you can feel his outrage if only it had been a better cover-up he could have looked the other way he would have screamed fake news which honestly remember when that was the problem hillary was facing before the election and it's like a rapist taking the mantle of victim put from the raped. Oh, yeah, that's exactly what happened.

And I don't think so, honey. When we're accepting a Supreme Court justice saying he was a virgin for years when the allegation was not penetration, but almost choking her as he laughed and fumbled and tried to stuff his drunken, privileged, young, raped dick and failed. And he's seen as a victim. And I don't think so, honey. I don't think so, honey. That was one minute and 14 seconds.

And every second was essential that was and can i tell you something that was the most words per minute of any i don't think so honey and that because you win the guinness book of world records and the most holistic all just covered everything that was that is happening every ill in society i don't think so honey we need for today but i'm also like what is happening in my other timeline oh in your other timeline do you think it's much more positive yeah but i'm also like what is happening in my other timeline oh in your other timeline do you think it's much more positive yeah but i also feel like i'm doing a better job of things do you know what i mean and the other timeline yeah i feel like my other

timeline me is just like a lot healthier yeah you just just like making harder choices that are ultimately better okay do you know what i mean but nothing i do i do nothing's preventing you from from doing that now you know except my utter laziness stop that's what it is we all are um oh my goodness uh this is sadie cohen this is sadie cohen i can't believe we had sadie cohen on the show boom chicago second city legend sadie cohen and and writer for every show you like perfect television show Tammy Sager this is this was so great

and I'm this like truly like I had I was so excited for this episode and I just expectations

blown out of the water I love you guys I love this show and tears were shed tears were totally shed absolutely thanks you guys please watch

Orange is the New Black this upcoming season final season ooh and we love Tammy so much you're the best you're the best

so we end with a song great all the stars of a thousand spotlights all the stars that shine in the light sky will never be enough.

Never be enough for me. Never, never, never enough. We gotta go. Forever. Dog. This has been a Forever Dog production. Executive produced by Brett Boehm, Joe Cilio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit foreverdogpodcasts.com

and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram, at Forever Dog Team, and liking our page on Facebook. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate

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We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out Jules new episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season.

Listen to dudes on dudes on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving day, 1999 five year old Cuban boy, Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Eliane Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day.

Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.