Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Niche!" (w/ Jordan Firstman & Charles Rogers)

Episode Date: December 5, 2018

On the 3rd installment of Las Culturistas' Search Party MOMENT, Charles Rogers and Jordan Firstman are in the studio talking about the thinly veiled insult that is "niche," identifying as a reader, Charles and Jordan's experience starting a relationship right after they began working together, broad drama, Sondheim and more!"I Don't Think So, Honey!" is coming to LA Wednesday, December 5th @ The Regent Theater! Get your tickets HERE! ---MERCH! MERCH! GET YOUR LAS CULTURISTAS MERCH!https://www.teepublic.com/stores/las-culturistasSUBSCRIBE ON APPLE PODCASTS TODAY!LAS CULTURISTAS IS A FOREVER DOG PODCAST. LAS CULTURISTAS IS PRODUCED BY EMMA FOLEY.http://foreverdogproductions.com/fdpn/podcasts/las-culturistas/ Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy. What?

You told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Sheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day.

Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from

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Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out, Jules.

New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, guys. It's me, Matt, speaking to you. And the reason I'm doing so is to let you know that for all you Los Angeles people, we are coming to you on Wednesday, December 5th at the Regent for I Don't Think So Honey Live. It's going to be very fun. So all you Los Angeles people, December 5th.

Okay. Bye. Bye. Forever. Dog. Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow.

Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes? Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong.

Las Culturistas calling. Matt, what are you reading these days? Oh, fuck you. Stop. I know I'm not reading a book. I'm curious. Okay. The last book I read was The War of Art.

Oh, The War of Art. And you loved that. Which is the one you gave me. Loved it. Yes. Opened up the doors. It's great, right? I can't, I'm surprised you didn't read it beforehand.

I had sworn you'd read it. And then I was like, and then when I was like, have you read The War of Art? And you were like, no. I was like, oh, but then you must. Can I ask you a question? Yes. Is this roundabout way so you can talk about what you're reading? No.

You just want to testify reading? I wanted a conversation, sure. And I do want to encourage reading in you more. You have this very anti-intellectualism about you that you're like, I don't read books. And like, I wanted a conversation. Sure. And I do want to encourage reading and you more. You have this very anti intellectualism about you that you're like, I don't read books. And like, I think it's an issue and it's not what we need in this time. I read online articles.

Yeah. It's not about important things like politics. Okay. I think you need to, I mean, with books are, are windows into other worlds, right?

You're into other reading a book right now? I think you should read, I think you should read like Role Models by John Waters or I'm reading, I'm finishing Joy Luck Club. You should, you should read, you should finish Joy Luck Club. I would like to read Joy Luck Club. It's wonderful. Does Crazy Rich Asians count as a book? And did you read it? No.

Yeah, absolutely. It is a book. But I know the story and it's like... Oh, but I feel like the movie, I haven't read it myself, which I'll admit, but I hear that the movie departs and takes many liberties. I did read Big Little Lies, the novel, after I watched that series. You did? And you read Gone Girl before you watched the movie?

I was very proud. These like Gillian Flynn adjacent things you've you you've done yeah i think i don't know i i really like to read autobiographies of comedy women yeah and that's great which is one of the i guess top five most basic things about me competing with some heavy themes ellie kemper just came out with i saw that yes busy phillips I saw that. New Comedy Queen. Busy Phillips has a book. New Comedy Queen. Busy Phillips? Who knew?

But we all knew. We all knew. Oh, my God. We'll talk about this with the boys. With the boys. Now, who are the boys? The boys are, I mean, true prolific queens. Prolific queens.

I mean, shared credits among them. I mean, they're like a wonderful. First of all, they're a couple. Let's just get that off the top. Let's just get that off the top so we don't have to talk about it. I mean, they're like a wonderful, first of all, they're a couple. Let's just get that off the top. Let's just get that off the top so we don't have to talk about it. They also, I mean,

they're doing such good stuff. I mean, between the two of them, you have Call Your Father, which I fucking love. Men Don't Whisper, starring Cherry O'Terry. You gotta love Cherry.

You gotta love Cherry. It's rule of culture number 17. You gotta love Cherry. And Search Party. I mean, and we'll let them take it away and talk about what stuff they're working on now.

What kind of hijinks the crew is going to get up to on this next season of Search Party? I mean, I don't think it's many. I think it's a lot of like... Low jinx. Well, no, it's trial jinx. It's a lot of like, uh-oh, they're in court. You can get up to hijinks in court.

Have you seen the OJ trial? Sure. It's not like them running around. It them like having to sit down and be like just saying your definition of hijinks is really you guys have you guys have you guys have killed people you know it's it's it's not it's not fun i mean they'll make it fun but it's not it's it's not the same thing of them like you know just you know speaking of reading i did read some pages of the script oh my god because you were you're you shot a thing of search party didn't you well i won't confirm or deny oh that's also because like what i mean what if it gets cut oh but you've

already confirmed it on jeffrey self's episode of this shit okay um well anyway i'm in it we're so excited to have them unless you're cut we're so excited to have them. Unless you're cut. We're so excited to have them. You better not cut me, bitch. It's not up to him. I haven't cut you yet. We're so excited to have them. Give a warm ear welcome to Charles Rogers and Jordan Firstman. We can speak. We're free.

I wanted to chime in so many times. What did you want to say? Chime in with what your feelings. I liked Art of War. Art of War. Art of War. Art of War, different. Chinese.

Chinese. I did read that in college. I had no idea Ellie Kemper has a book. She got a book? She got a book? I wanted to talk about Ellie Kemper. Okay. Because we had like a year where we would just tag her in everything.

Oh, yeah. That's how we courted each other was just tagging is this real yeah but it was like a different Ellie Kemper it was like a Swedish woman it was like Ellie Kemper 7 yeah oh my god okay wait I do

want to get into the courtship later okay and then what else did you want to chime in on I forget I was just gonna be like I want to i i never read like matt but i am reading right now i'm like trying to read more good good so i wanted to chime in about that can you speak for the people that don't read because i feel like we got a bad rap it is just so uh boring yeah but then but then when it's not it's so fun i agree yeah yeah it's like when you're in it you're like this is amazing and then three weeks go by in it you're like this is amazing and then three weeks go by four weeks you're like i'm never finishing that but do you feel like a reader

i don't read and i feel like i'm a reader here's the thing people who don't so charles and i are the same i'm like i'm a reader but i you have never read i'm a reader i read so much more than you you do i but you know i'm very busy baby well when you're writing you can't be reading wait so wait what were you trying to say it taints your work it taints your work he doesn't he actually what pisses me off about his not that exact sentiment he can't watch tv oh because i just i don't want to sit down at the end of the day and like what watch more tv especially when you live in la and every party you go to is it's like so it's a dragon and a mermaid like it's just after a while you're like i don't live in the real world yeah i agree with

that i mean like they always said like when we were learning like the screenwriting in college they were like and be watching everything i was like i don't want to fucking do that yeah i don't like until you're not yourself at all. But to not be able to experience Atlanta with your lover. To have to watch Atlanta and be so moved by it and then have to explain these weird moments that don't actually make sense. And he's like, yeah, it's magical realism.

Everyone's done that. I don't watch Atlanta. It's like a political point or something. No, he just doesn't watch TV. He'll never understand Teddy Perkins Yeah And shit I know enough to No I respect that Okay

The thing is Okay but that This is a very interesting approach Because I am curious about you Is Sarah Violet the same way Where she won't watch Other TV No she

She's one of those people Who fall Yeah she watches tons of 90 movies And she will fall asleep To something every night See okay yeah I don't identify with that either Yeah it's not me

Yeah she'll like Fall asleep to like The Office or 30 Rock, like comforting things like from when we were coming up. And that's when I used to watch. From when we were coming up. The network shows from when we were coming up. The network shows we came up with. In the early 2000s.

Oh my God. And that was really the, well, maybe that's, maybe that's a lie. Like in college, I did watch TV and I'll, I'll get into a show,

but I'm not like an active TV watcher all the time like i i can't list off five or six shows that i am watching right frequently what happens to me is i'll get very obsessed with something for one or two seasons that i binge and then the third season will come out and for some reason i'll have no fucking interest yeah yeah like i love the first season of westworld i actually loved it and then the second season came back and i was like oh i don't care about this at all yeah it's impossible well right now it's impossible because then it's like within three

weeks 80 shows have come out right and you're like so by the a year from then you're like I don't remember it I don't care about it everything has come out I know this is bad this is bad to say on this podcast but I felt that way about drag race this season I was like I've been watching this show for like almost 10 years yeah like it's gonna it's getting pathological if you like have something in your

life sure 100 even though i still love the show yeah same and you you can't ever not watch it because now it's like what do we talk about yeah yeah but i do i did okay so i'm so glad you're saying this charles thank you because i for a long time thought that like in order to just sort of be like you like that you can't create in this vacuum or whatever i mean not not that yeah yeah it's happening well i wish i watched more stuff and i and i missed the days when i was like so fresh and like wanted to consume and like be be molded you know like i don't have that inspiration anymore but i think it's just like feeling tired i think it's just being tired that's all and also wanting to do other things like i'd rather listen to music uh-huh interesting you said you like podcasts yeah i can't i want constant chatter i never want silence yeah he has a hard time

listening to music too though i do yeah i feel like he like works and then he's just like stairs and then i'm paralyzed it's true it's At night, I'll just look through Instagram and jerk off and stare at the ceiling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all my night is. I'm next to him the entire time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He does all of it. He just stares at the wall, jerks off.

He says a word to me. It's over. There is hell to pay. Oh, my God. Jerking off is a huge part of my life as well. I identify with that. I think that's as noble as reading, I think. Of course.

Of course. It's noble. I challenge you two to really give us our generation's first, or just the world's first, Instagram masturbation scene. I feel like we haven't. That hasn't been portrayed. And that's a very... You mean just jerking off to other people's Instagrams? But specifically with a phone in your hand and like this.

I haven't seen that. I haven't seen that on screen. You're right. We haven't, and I need to. I've Twitter jerked off before, because there's actual porn on there. Like to tweets? Oh, there's porn on Twitter, yeah. To like Nikki Glaser's tweets.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We follow each other so I can't say anything bad about Nikki. Love you, girl. We recently met her and she recognized Bowen and not me. It was a great moment.

She did recognize you by the end. She was like, no, I think I do know you. And I was like, maybe. And it was a week. You spent a week with her. Actually, it was only the three of us upstate in a cabin. Wait, and then speaking of which, you two just came back from upstate. Tell us everything.

We were wasayic. Right outside our media. I think we were there for the best Leaf weekend of the year Was that the week after us? That was the week after us Because you guys started to see them turn But they weren't vibrant

I will say that it was a really good week last week I actually think we got the tail end We got the tail end But yesterday was like I've never seen vibrancy Gorgeous I slept over at Dave and Arielrancy gorgeous yeah I was up in Harlem I slept over at Dave and Ariel's

last night and I woke up in Harlem the sky was orange bitch oh the sky every leaf in the sky I woke up at a cool noon and I was walking down Ariel and I went for lunch and I was just like can you look at the sky and I think post acid

trip I'm really noticing did you already talk about that on the podcast we did lightly but we are happy to talk about it more and I went for lunch and I was just like, can you look at this guy? And I think post acid trip, I'm really noticing. Oh, wait, did you already talk about that on the podcast? We did lightly, but we are happy to talk about it more. We're all on it right now.

You're amazing. We truly, like we, we make it a point to do it every once a day. And we're, no one's touched us. Well, you know,

we see, we see beauty and we see ugly. Did you guys do it upstate? No. It's the perfect place to do it. I know, it would we were with like bros it was really interesting so my friend good friend sarah married the owner of italy uh oh my god the one who is not mario okay the one who's they're like three partners there's like three partners he's one of them great and he's a really

he's a good guy they're very in love and we went to their like italy blowout wedding in italy like over the summer so it was like some gay guys and then like some very like broey like business guys and it was a weird it was interesting and you managed to connect with them yes and no it would like kind of we were like wigs and costumes a lot and like at first they were like no and then by the end like they thought we were funny but then but there was a moment where like he one of the strikers just staring at us he's like i don't even understand what you're joking he was like what's the joke really good we had a good we were what they were watching football and we just started making this stupid joke we were like the leaves are turning and it's football season

throw the jack-o'-lanterns in the trash it's yeah we were just doing like an impression of like a football announcer he's like what is the joke of that it was like the joke the joke is that this football announcer cares it's autumn I don't know it doesn't matter

it's a funny voice we think I think it is so funny to make people explain what's funny about their joke it's so mean just imagine not having an ear for like yeah I know humor no it's interesting but his friends have that ear that he has so he doesn't know

that he's wrong and I will say this reminds me there is someone on search party who I won't name that like her like one thing her one joke was like her one line and she was like why is blah blah blah blah basically she didn't get the line and I was like if you have to ask why that's

funny like you won't understand a single line of this show oh my god I don't know who you're talking about it was Patty Harrison first and foremost dumb not funny not hot Patty Angel I don't get it. It's lost on me.

Yeah, what is going on with like, how do they keep rising? It's so unfathomable. They're both victims. First and foremost. That's their brand. I mean, Joel will be the first to tell you that he's not doing well. And that is a valid. Yeah, it's true. No, it's true doing well. And that is a valid. Yeah.

It's true. No, it's true. It's true. He doesn't book. Doesn't book. Never seen him on screen. Um,

you know, he's really, he's past his prime now at 30. I did something weird yesterday, which is I watched Joel stand up online just as a fan. Oh, that's nice. I love him.

I know this is the real me, a Joel fan. A Joel fan. I love him too. He's a good person. Very, A Joel fan. A Joel fan. I love him, too. He's a good person. He's a very good person. He's our friend. Okay, he's my friend.

Oh, okay, so fine. We're colleagues more than friends. That's true, professional colleagues. It's so crazy because everyone in the show is professional colleagues except for Beau. Except for me. Well, you and I are. Yeah.

Do you guys make money doing this? We make a little. We make a little bit of money. Then you're colleagues. We've been on the same track what's the exact amount um so yeah like for example we just um did everlane sponsorships and then and i'm not even joking anymore this is just true this is amazing they were like okay now pick 10 any 10 things you want from the website and we'll oh my god and we'll send it to you for free. That's amazing. That's good, right? Hello, it's a new wardrobe.

It's like thousands of dollars of clothes. I texted him and I was like, that's better than money for you. That is. Oh my god, yes. Kind of is. Kind of is. I think it is because it's like, here's just, you know, you're gonna use it to shop anyway or do whatever the fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not money you could spend wrong. Exactly. And also,

it wasn't budgeted. It was just like, pick 10 items. It's not money you could spend wrong. Exactly. And also, it wasn't budgeted. It was just like pick 10 items. That is actually, I would love it if my checks were like clothing money. Yeah. Or like vacation money. You need an assistant. Yeah, yeah. You need an accountant. It just sounds like you need an assistant.

Wait, I want to know. Okay, I want to know about this courtship. So, okay. Just give us whatever sorted things. I'm going to get there before you he says one thing always when people ask that embarrasses me so much so i'm gonna like yeah get out of this basically he's gonna say that i reached out that's the word on linkedin nothing wrong linkedin no no okay so here's I'm gonna explain it

from the beginning because Charles wasn't there for the beginning of it right yeah I was in a coma for three months seven years

so basically three months seven years we'll take you back to the New Orleans Film Festival 2014 New Orleans is how they say it

yeah Charles had two film festivals that weekend for his feature for until then yes I think they were like flying him and putting up At a nicer hotel in Chicago

So he was like I'm gonna choose Chicago I went to New Orleans and I was like Expecting to see him No we didn't know I had vaguely heard of Fort Hilton You had seen me at a Q&A though But didn't put anything together He was at a Q&A for a movie he had like three lines in

And he kind of took over the Q&A because it was failing. 11 lines. And I was like, who's in overtime? And it wasn't kind of failing, it was failing. Yeah, yeah. Well, there were a lot of awkward people on stage. You definitely made the Q&A feel more alive, but I was also like, what gives him the right?

I know. Who is this person that like... I had just moved to LA. I was very unstable I needed attention so I tuned in and so I got to the festival

and it was my it was my first like not gay film festival like my first short to like all these gay film festivals and I was like when will the straights

accept me still asking and so New Orleans was the first film festival that accepted me and I was like what program am I in and then I was like you're playing before a feature.

And I was kind of pissed because I wanted to be in like a shorts program. And then it was I was playing before his feature. Fort Tilden. Fort Tilden. Which the first time you and I met was you did monologues at Magnet for the all queer improv. Oh, my God. That's crazy. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. Oh, wow. That's so interesting. Everyone used to do that. Yeah. Okay. god. That's crazy. Isn't that crazy? Oh wow, that's so interesting. Everyone used to do that. Sorry, keep going. Both of our movies were two-handers about terrible people. That's why they put them together. I watched that movie

and it fucking lifted me up. I was like, this is it. I was like, I need to know this person. I need to like, will like be involved in some way with this person like we need to talk about sarah violet sarah violet and so i reached out to sarah violet married her for one to two years yeah but i was like i was so in love with the movie i was like this is like the sensibility i'm going for and the sensibility I want to be.

Wow. What's weird about, okay. And then you messaged me on Facebook and we had like a good rapport, but I was like, I can't tell if this is like somebody I'm, I've got a crush on or just a friend or what. Cause I was like,

he's really cute from his pictures. And then we made a plan to go to dinner. And then the night before we ended up at John and Kate show at UCB. Yeah. And we sat sat they sat because it was really packed they sat us on stage facing each other like wait yeah they put up like

a row of chairs on either side of the stage and we just and we had to like and it was like oh it's you like we're gonna meet tomorrow and like we were just crying and I remember like we glanced over at each other a bunch of times throughout that yeah then we had dinner the next night and it was like nice but it felt like a general like yeah throughout that yeah then we had dinner the next night and it was like nice but it felt like a general a little bit like a little bit and then we got drunk and made

out at the end of the night then didn't speak for like three months i had just i had just like come off of something was just started something that was like very intense okay and so i but i remember going this is like i don't even know if we've ever like rehashed all of this, but I went home to my roommate and I was like, Bish or Charles. And then she was like, it's Charles. Whoa.

And I was like, it's Bish. And so I was like, it's Bish. Did my thing. Like got, did your Bish thing. Did my Bish thing for a few months.

Which we've all done. Yeah. We've all done our Bish thing. I was also with vish at the time but i remember kristen was like it just charles is such a no-brainer like she's not in your life anymore and she's not in my life excommunicated her out of your life wait what's where's this shot now can we talk about this you know what we're just getting in a place like it was such a bad uh-huh a bad experience and like now like three years later like i'm comfortable with

my relationship and like he's kind of still figuring stuff out great but like we can like text and be like how's it going uh-huh are you text but he lives here right no he lives in yeah he just got a job at u. They're buying him a house. They do that? They literally, if you get a good job there, they like put your down payment. Everyone who goes to school there gets a house. Here's my question. With what money, bitch?

Because NYU, John Sexton got in a whole dick load of trouble. The president of NYU, it turns out, was using the university's money to pamper the professors with homes and stuff. I was in a show, and he had invited us out to his Fire Island home, and we found out allegedly how that had been paid for. And he got in so much trouble, and NYU is already a fucking... It's crazy that John Sexton has a Fire Island home. He had a Fire Island home. He's not gay. Who is that?

Is he the head of Tisch? It was one of those great people. He was the president of the whole school who had this really disarming persona of being like, if you ever see me on campus,

give me a hug. His famous thing was the John Sexton hugs and he would hug every student. It was truly like, yeah, it was a weird

fucked up like pre-me too thing of like, wait, there's something wrong about this. He was also like, very like,

we're going to build a global universe take over the entire global universe oh that's where I saw it I'm sure it says that global universe title event and in the show in the show I did he kept it was like a welcome

week show where it's like welcome here you have a roommate that's weird like deal with each other but love and also it was like welcome here you have a roommate that's weird huh like deal with each other but love and also it was like really about like what to do if you were having like dark thoughts yeah because that was you guys were like in the era of people jumping off the library oh yeah it was the reason yeah the the barricades went up or whatever yes yes i did nyu welcome week freshman to senior year of high school i would go and pretend i was a freshman at NYU. Insane.

And I would like, with my stage door, I would like, I knew a stage door person coming in every year. That is so funny. So I would just like stay in their dorm and be like, I'm a freshman. And then I would, when I would come back. Imagine if you did that now. Imagine wanting that at any other time in your life. It's so sad now. But then people the next year would be like, I can't believe I haven't seen you in a whole year i haven't seen you since last welcome week

a year ago and i'm like yeah i've just been busy but you were like 15 oh that's just like fucking anyone who that kid's a genius wow i love that that's the that's a screenplay oh my. It's a script. They wanted us to make the Global University thing part of it and I was like, wait, hold on a second. Even me at 21, I was like, where the fuck is this money going? What is this a crazy front for? NYU, there's problems.

The fact that there's a campus in Abu Dhabi is like, red flag, red flag, red flag. I can't even fathom where $60,000 per year per person goes. I can't even fathom where $60,000 per year per person goes like I don't even get food it's food can tell you from eating there

it ain't the food I liked it you liked it your palate is not sophisticated I I need to I feel like Jordan okay let's just... We're on Jordan. So we were...

You guys start. We're going to do the last part fast. This is easy. We're going to do the last part fast. Let's go through the last part fast, please. After Vish was... Enough Vish. Vish was fading out.

I was so stressed, so anxious. I came to a brunch wet. That's what I told... Months later, I was like, you looked soaking wet the next time I saw you. It was a real red flag. When you're dry, but you're in a really bad emotional place, you're just wet.

I know two ladies in you who are like that. You've just got a lot of active follicles. That's probably what it is. You're sweating. I was just stressed all the time. Sweating. Anyway, we hung out like every day after that we started hanging out like every day we became like best friends and then when when search party was like green lit i wanted him to

write on the show but then we had to put like our feelings away because jordan was like i don't want to have any like weird but these feelings came up literally the saturday before the first monday of the room i think there was a lot of like literal flirting but we or at least like mutual like adoration you know like yeah yeah like the saturday before yeah before the room started and then it was like well this is very confusing like what are we doing no no the saturday before was the halloween that's a whole i can't tell that story. It's far too humiliating. This fall on Bravo. It's time to turn up.

Think you've seen it all? I don't think you've been a good friend to me lately. We're friends like that. Who needs enemies? You ain't seen nothing yet. Cheers to being Germanic. With the Real Housewives

of Potomac. Oh my gosh, can I take this in? It's gonna be amazing. New York City. Everyone is a gossip. No one gets a happier life. Salt Lake City.

We don't wear pastels, we wear fashion. And below deck sailing. You broke the rules. No one gets a happier life. Salt Lake City. We don't wear costumes, we wear fashion. And below deck sailing. You broke the rules and now you're here getting upset. Watch all new seasons on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. Let's have a real good time. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist,

sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude, you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes

is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them, and we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of types of dudes are there, Gronk? We got studs, wizards, we got freaks, or dudes dudes. We got dogs. Dogs. We types of dudes are there, Gronk? We got studs, wizards. We got freaks. Or dudes, dude.

We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dudes dude? We're gonna find out, Jules.

New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel.

I mean, he look so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban,

I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now we need to know. It just involves me and Molly begging to be a part of a three-way and taking an Uber

to follow Jordan home with this guy. He took an Uber and said, follow that car. As Charles Manson and showed up. I said, Charles Manson. And got to Jordan's door. We had been making out with some guy,

the three of us, like all night. And then they went home together and I was like, that's not how this night was going to go. And then I literally, and then on the way home, I asked the Uber driver, I was alone with her,

I was like, have you ever been in love? What did she say? I don't remember. Have you ever been in love? That night was also crazy because Vish was at that party and took Charles aside and said, I give him to you. Yeah.

He cut his karmic ties with you and was like, you can have Jordan. And blessed the courtship. Yeah, you and was like, you can have Jordan. And blessed the courtship. Yeah, but I was like, fuck that. I'm not like... I'll make my own choices. Thank you very much. But you've never been in control of your destiny. That is true.

Either Vish or I have. Wow. So then the room started. The room started. The room started and we took like two weeks. The first week he was just mad at me all the time. I couldn't handle it. I could not handle that three-way rejection and Molly.

I should not have done Molly like two days before the room. Your first season happened. It was all a mistake. And it was my first TV writing job. I was like spiritually depleted. And I couldn't look at Jordan for like a week. And I was like, oh, I'm going to get fired. He hates me. Oh, my God. I was like i've ruined my like friendship and my job yeah so then when did it when did the upswing happen again with like two months into the room then and then we

were like good and happy again and like becoming best friends again and then like two months into the room we went to palm springs just to like figure out what we are and it was the weirdest like it was such a weird thing just the two weird thing just the two of us and we like hooked up again and then like but it felt like sad or empty or something and then we watched The Intern and just made fun of The Intern all night which like it was so joyful for both of us

like we bonded so hard making like dissecting Nancy Meyers movies that that was the first time I was like oh shit like I probably should be with this person it was just so confusing it was so confusing I've never had more confusion about like a person in my life and then long story short the room ended and then then on valentine the night before valentine's day jordan had a party and then we hooked up again that night and then we both texted a week later that we had wanted to say i love you when that when we had hooked up and then and it

was like do you know when like you're like in bed with someone and you're like thinking it over and over and over but you can't say oh my god so I was like I'm so like I'm such a loser and then I found out he was doing the exact same thing and it was a big relief yeah wow that is that is a crazy thing yeah yeah and then two weeks later we were

like we're gonna be boyfriends but then started like long distance because I was in New York and he was oh man it was a weird it's hard to have that exciting moment and then be like now let's be boyfriends but then started like long distance because I was in New York and he was oh man it was weird it's hard to have that exciting moment and then be like now let's be separate yeah it was so weird there's so much there's so much texture to that I love that it was such a roller it's a saga it's so good

and continues to be it's true um I I feel like I have to um address this thing that is gnawing at me. I think it's about time. It's about time. Okay, I think, I feel like.

You all know except me? No, no, no, no. I have no idea what the fuck is happening. So, like, hearing Jordan talk about, like, posing as a freshman or just posing as a student, like, and, like, all the stage door stuff, like, there is a part of me and this is just me putting this out there and there's no's no like there's no good or bad way to take this but like I feel like Jordan was living this life

that I had always sort of secretly wanted but was like pigeon holed by my parents into being like you're gonna major in science you're gonna do this like I like I would like growing up Jordan would have been someone who I would have been like oh my God I want you're living the dream what he wants and

I feel like that's still true now I feel like it's like wow these things follow us into adulthood right are you saying the relationship aspect no no no I'm saying like Jordan like is you're in love with me

wait I'm in love with Charles so I'm in love with you but I'm in love with Charles but'm in love wait i'm what i hear so i hear you but i hear what i charles yes but i've i mean like i've lost some that a lot of that part of myself okay okay so so this is what i'm trying to get at like yes are do you like are is that person still like i miss i miss being like i don't feel free as free really and like i miss i do miss like the like more adventurous and it's not because of anything. It's just like you grow up and then you're like, you want to be successful and then you're working all the time.

And then when you're working, you're like, oh, like I can't just go to like Berlin for a month and fuck 200 people. And like, you can't do the things that like, but I'm, I, I really did do them. Like I did them like from, from like 15 to like 22. You started young. I started really young. Great. You got it. And so like, I, I don't feel like regrets and like I don't really want it anymore.

But I do sometimes like miss just being like wild. Wow. But you had it. I had it. But I did do it. I feel that way with like silliness. Like I miss being like free and silly and like people used to think of me as like the silly one. And now it's not.

I don't know. I think time and roles. Well, because yeah. Because Charles is the boss and so like and it just stresses you out and then you stop being like fun i don't know it's like i miss like being like uh almost like everyone's little brother like i used to have that thing in high school but i'm not that anymore it's weird but that's not exactly what you're saying it's a similar thing though it's like things that you you miss about yourself but i also think if you're like into your 30s fucking 200 people in berlin like it starts to be like a problem it's a moment of caution that was my yeah i wouldn't i had a terrible lead-in

into that i'm so sorry that i directed it at like jordan's past or like upbringing but this is a good thing you apologized thank you bojan it got really intense that stayed with me um it's it's this okay it's this life's like okay you know what you guys know matt porter right no i don't i know the name he's he's great he um the only reason i mentioned him is because i feel like he's like in that sort of same he wrote something yeah well yeah he wrote this thing about turning 30 that is basically just being like girls it's about girls is ultimately a show about turning 30

it started with them all turning 30 if you think about it I'm putting on my huge glasses it really is she wrote this thing where it's like okay you have all the structure up until you know your late 20s and then you just have to get used to like your thrusters turning off and you're just sort of floating in space for a while and you just have to be used to the stillness of being like basically of a somewhat finalized version of who you're gonna be

and i feel like i am i feel like you and i are in this place where we're like contending with that you're like is this is this it is this it well what i was gonna say to what jordan what charles was saying was like you say you used to have this thing where people thought of you as silly and like almost didn't take you as seriously yeah i feel like people don't take me seriously enough i want to be taken more seriously like that's my my kind of thing is it's like how much longer am i going to be looked at as like i feel like you can't have both yeah you i don't think you can be like somebody that's like, I take you seriously, but I love you and I want to like...

I don't know. It's not... It doesn't work. I have a similar thing though. People are either like afraid for you or want to be your... Afraid of you or want to be your best friend. Yeah. You can't have both.

It's weird because I feel like there's like... And tell me if you guys identify with this. It's like what people think they're going to get from you and what people actually get from you. It's like... Are sometimes two different things. And they can't reconcile when they get something they're going to get from you and what people actually get from you. It's like are sometimes two different things. And they can't reconcile when they get something they're not expecting. Right.

So it's like the second you try to change it up, they're like, no, that's not you. Yeah, I know you. Or they need to see how you relate to another person to be like, oh, I can relate to them the way that they relate to that person. Oh, now I'll act like that. Yes. It's always constant negotiation. I have the same thing though like especially in like in the search party room

more the first two seasons but like I'd say a pitch seriously and people would like laugh at it and then like two minutes would go by and they're like

oh wait that's real and good and like it would like come back to it but they just assumed I was joking yeah cause like I just like have a face that it seems

like I'm joking about everything it's your face but I think it's my face a little bit. But I'm like, no, bitch. I'm dead serious about all of this. And is there a part of you that thinks because you are in the room and everyone knows that you guys are together that they think of maybe it's – Is there a part of you that projects that? No.

These are facts. It was more so the first season, too. We weren't together then either. Sure. No, but it's something I've dealt with my entire life of like people not like understanding that i'm serious yes but now i'm i'm at a place now where like i know how serious i am yeah and so if they don't see it i'm like it doesn't matter like i know i know i know it can be weird though like i feel that way because my voice is kind of dead like Like I kind of have just like a dead energy sometimes.

And so like if I'm joking, it's like sometimes the same voice is when I'm serious. Yes. And then I'll like say something that's a joke and people be like, oh yeah, yeah. And I'm like, oh my God,

you don't know me at all. Like if you think I'm capable of that, it's like, oh my God, our friendship's a sham. Yeah. It's so scary. The way I am is I'm so big

that it's like when I'm joking, you fucking know when it's borderline too much. And then when I'm serious, it's like, okay, yeah, we're here. But it's always extremes. You guys both have like a big thing. The big thing. And I do envy that.

Wait, what do you mean? Oh, you do have the big thing. What are you talking about? Yeah, but you guys can be just fun at the drop of a hat right yeah you know what i mean like watching you guys do i don't think so any live and it's like oh like they just know how to like even if it's mental illness really it is i'm mentally ill i'm very mentally ill you can are you ever just like in a really bad mood and then you're like you turn it on you're like oh my god i just did that yeah i find that i can always turn it on and also oftentimes i'm just on all the time and people it's too much

for people like kind of like i always remember like when bowen me sudi and dave all went to disney world like and orlando i could feel that they were like you're wow this is really this is a problem yeah you're you're here and i was like and i was like come on we have to go because i have to do this other ride and they're like we're in our late 20s and don't feel like we have to rush and i was like oh yeah yeah same we can we can sit down i'm not manic i'm like i see myself sometimes and actually one of the things that i realized one of my lessons quote unquote from the acid trip is i am like a man child yeah and like i that's been hard about becoming almost 30 years old and like at this point now where it's like and this is maybe weird

to say but like i think people know who i am in the comedy community but i don't have like a staffed job under my name like everything i've done is something i've created or yeah you know something that i've i've got done myself and it's kind of like huh like this thing of like people not taking me seriously i know it's coming from my own brain yeah but it's something that's like matches this thing about my personality which is like a child yeah i always say this though you're you're yeah your best qualities are your worst qualities. And like, you couldn't be you without being a child.

100% agree. Like, it's so part of your thing. And the people... But then it's also gonna be like your downfall. Yeah. Wow. It's going to be.

Probably more in like personal relationships. Naomi Ackperigan said that I will die by my own hand. Accidentally. Accidentally. At least that's, you know,

your own hand. You'll skip off a branch like it'll be like me just like whoa whoa whoa you're gonna die you're gonna die masturbating to an

Instagram feed yeah yeah yeah I think it's good to be a child like people love like Tiffany Haddish the people who are

the sparkliest are like children at heart and like I'm jealous of that because it's that sounds so free you know if you can harness it

so that everyone is just doing something for you all the time, then it's like best case scenario. Yeah, you gotta get a Tiffany Hatch letter where you have assistants, you have like people doing all the adult things for you. Yeah, 100%. If you can be childish while having assistants, that is, that's the dream. That is the goal.

My assistants are my children. Oh, Bowen, you need to brush your teeth. Yes, you do. I wasn't saying that to you. I was just saying like you as in like the universal you. The royal you, yes. You have beautiful, gorgeous teeth. Thank you.

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go to getquip.com slash ding dong right now, you'll get your first refill pack free with the Quip electric toothbrush. That's your first refill pack free at getquip.com forward slash dingdong, D-I-N-G-D-O-N-G. Here's the full spelling, honey. G-E-T-Q-U-I-P dot com, C-O-M slash D-I-N-G-D-O-N-G. And remember, that ships everywhere by Michelle Branch do you okay so talk about how how is Men Don't Whisper how did that work as like

a production in terms of you two cause you get okay did you two direct that Jordan directed it Jordan directed it I did but like we made it together we made it together great and then like I can't imagine how just involved that would be and to have that be

in some way not emotionally fraught but just like there's this like oh you're working with like your significant other like I don't know I mean the sound was really easy that was really easy the we're making a feature out of it and that was we I feel like we delved into more of our real problems

the feature is more like really about our problems like the the short was like here's gay masculinity problems and then the future is like here's that and then here's also i have this problem you have this problem as characters yeah maybe just put him into the movie and that was a little harder to write because like you almost like writing a movie you like literally have to agree what's right and wrong like morally and like if we're having like different ideas about how we like bring ourselves into the relationship like yeah we have to like come to a consensus to make to write this right so like that was so interesting just like moments from like our characters need to be equally bad and you're like i agree and i'm like okay but your character my character is worse than your character i'm like i don't agree i'm

like okay this is a problem because now we have to talk about how like and then it's like i'm not saying this because i need to look good i'm saying yeah it suddenly gets like it turned into a problem where like i'm not as bad as him in the relationship and he's like you need to be worse and he said no that's so interesting i like i don't know not that it's the same thing at all but like if you and i were to like you and i have constant disagreements all the time about things that basically boil down to like morality shit and like i don't know that's like well i mean they fucking minefield. They have to figure it out because the movie's being made. We just let it sit.

Or you just keep working on it. Or we just keep working. It didn't fix the problem. It's just kind of like... No, it fixed us. Yeah, we're perfect. Yeah, right. But eventually you do get down to the product

is something that you're both like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like we understand because it became like it was like super micro when we started and then like kind of the way we like ended the movie is so macro yeah that it's like oh we can blame all of our problems on society thank you i was perfect the whole time it's their fault we just have to say i'm sorry and then the movie's over i love that but i do want to get to the question oh and this is the question we'll go to charles first let's go to charles so this is the culture that made you say culture was for me the pop culture that was defining it was either you know it doesn't have to be like a specific

film or musical artist or whatever but that thing that that made you like you your touchstone pop culturally i feel like for me that's the earliest stuff like it's like all the stuff that was like handed to me at the beginning and my dad my dad for being like as much of a straight guy as he is like for some reason like loves like blake edwards and like loved like the pink panther and like yeah uh like it's a mad mad mad mad world and like all those like goofy 60s comedies that like and mel brooks that were just like so like there's such a queer perspective in the 60s yeah it's like so zany and like they weren't afraid of it because they were like well of course it's not gay we don't even say gay yeah and somehow like it was the gayest thing that's ever been made there's like lots of like champagne bubbles and like weird like you know yeah um and sound effects out of nowhere yeah yeah and so like

that stuff is still like i love camp deep i mean we all do but like i just feel like broad and camp are such like dirty words today and it's like it's it's such a i mean camp less so because we're like taking it back but like i mean camp less so because we're like taking it back but like the broad no broad is so good straight people are taking it straight people are taking it that's true it's crazy totally or like american hustle where it's like straight people in wigs and it's like oh god it feels horrible yeah it just doesn't work when you do it um i tanya a little bit yeah that was straight that was straight camp yeah for sure i i i did like i told you me too but it was it was straight and it was straight that was straight camp yeah for sure i i i did like

itonia me too but it was it was straight and it was like what's straight and it's like imagine if he had a crowbar in his hand yeah yeah but it's crazy music yeah yeah and talk on the camera yeah yeah i don't know i just love like i think broad is i want to bring broad back yeah because it's you can still say lots of smart things and be broad like it's fun it's right absolutely and people are broad as hell oh my god people are cartoons like nobody is subtle nobody's subtle can i ask you not because my criticism of a star is born was that that fucking manager broad ass cartoon british manager ruined the movie do we haven't seen it you haven't seen it yet but you agree i think every moment ruined that movie you

didn't like it yeah you hated it like i hate it so much yeah it's not even worth going into yeah i mean i i was just considering the fact that like there it was certainly this movie that felt specific and then this broad ass character came in and ruined it. Whereas like maybe the movie, if it really wanted to be, should have just been broad from the beginning. Yeah, we won't, we don't have to get into it. I felt it was. I felt like everything was so broad

that like his existence made total sense to me. I will say, and you like shot me a dirty ass look in the theater. And the first fucking shot of the film where he's just like unscrewing a fucking thing, a whiskey or whatever was just or he did he's medicates in some way and i just laughed i was like oh already yeah like this is this is like so i shot you a dirty look because i was like i knew this would happen i knew you wouldn't give it a chance no i'm i was i was just laughing at how thickly everything was being laid out i was like and i hear that and then he's

performing to like a trump supporting crowd and then they're like we're nowhere in new york yeah yeah yeah or whatever it is it's like so unclear where they were i remember i remember jordan's i think i remember seeing it on jordan's story like a few days later where he like just shits on the movie i was like okay cool like i'm not the only person no i think we can all agree yeah such an array of like i don't know what i'm to do. I call it the blue and black dress. It's like, yeah, you either see it or you don't. Wow.

Absolutely. I think I was swept away by it at first, and I do still like the movie. I enjoyed watching it. I don't think it... I think that that's... I mean, it's Lady Gaga in a movie. That's still what it is. But, you know, it's Lady Gaga in a movie. It's Lady Gaga in a movie. That's still what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, you know, I do get what you're saying. But broad, okay. Maybe I'm just, like, thinking in terms of, like, the mad TV-ness of it all. But broad, for some reason, is equating in my brain as, like. Not deep. No, as, like, offensive. Or, like, not deep. Well, because in, like like a non-woke time

when we did broad comedy, of course it was offensive because we could still get away with that. I think it's like big characters where everyone has like a hat or something and it's like, oh, you're the hat person. Austin Powers. Austin Powers.

I would love Austin Powers-esque comedy. I swear I was not like virtue signaling in any way. No, but you're right. But imagine if Murder on the Orient Express had been funny. And it was full of really funny people and smart writers. It would have been so good. Well, back in the day, they would even make dramas really broad. And now I feel like they have to be so real and grounded.

Or boring. Or boring. Right. Everything is boring now. I know. Everything is to be so real and grounded. Or boring. Or boring. Right. Everything is boring now. I know. Yeah. Everything is so boring. Especially rule of culture number 70.

Everything is boring now. Because everything's so like trying. Like on Netflix, it's just like all those titles are like fake movie titles from inside a movie. Yeah. Everything is just like a copy of something now. And it's crazy because the Oscars is so obsessed with boring movies. Yeah.

Like when Spotlight won, I was like, I mean, I get that this is well-made and about something quote-unquote important, but dear God. But it's a procedural TV show. It's Law & Order. It's like literally the beat-by-beat Law & Order. I had such a feeling of like, oh my God, when you've been in an office too long, you're like, I can't have more fluorescent lights. When I left that movie, I was like, I'm so

glad I'm outside. We should say Michael Cyril Creighton was amazing. He was great. And his stuff was all outdoors with Rachel yeah that's true they managed to light

the outdoors really bright too like I said well done movie everyone in it is great but it was fucking boring

but subject matter wise or execution wise it was not I mean it was just very prestigious you know what at least like doubt

like it was stage that was fine at least they gave you fucking violins honey it was staged that was fine fucking violins monologues to god viola davis yes in the park ordinary people amy adwords amy adwords amy adwords is incredible amy adams's part i would have gagged oh my god mr james no mr james mr james if Alyssa Edwards was cast as Amy Adams' part I would have gagged oh my god

Sister James Sister James Sister James I have doubts and now it's like imitation like those kind of movies I'm just like what

people can get through those there's such a distance I never feel close to any of that and I think that's why I'm like fucking gun to my head when the ballot arrives in my hand like I might... You're an Oscar voter? I don't know. Just for a second.

I love an Oscar voter who has a gun to their head. Such a good visual. Make it. Make the movie. A three minute short that goes to Sunday. It takes place in one location that's gun to my head. Oscar voting. And there's two choices. No lines.

No lines. It's just emotion. Make a movie about a bunch of faggots who hold an Oscar voter hostage. Like a 9 to 5 for the Oscars. I had an idea yesterday about a woman who goes into a coma and wakes up at like she's like 55 years old and she

has an Emmy. And she has no idea how she got it. It is a really good idea. It's really good. Don't steal it, guys. No, please. You're on the record. You've given it away, so you better write it down. This IP is a lock for Jordan.

Wait, what were you going to say? I was going to say, if I ever do become someone that votes on that shit or makes any decisions, I will vote for the fun shit. I'm never going to vote for the boring shit. And if Star is Born is nominated for Best Picture and everything else is boring, you will know what I will vote for, honey. And it will not be fucking whatever the fuck Green Book is.

What's Green Book? It's the movie that everyone's talking about. Mahershala Ali and Viggo Mortensen. It's a weird reverse Driving Miss Daisy thing, right? Viggo's playing this fast-talking, somewhat racist dude, and then

Mahershala's just rolling his eyes in the backseat. It's crazy. I'll tell you what I saw. First Man. No, thank you. No, thanks. The thing is, it's really well done but i don't care yeah and then you know what's fascinating about it is the movie fucking knows the most interesting parts are the parts with claire and then the movie comes to life when it's about her and there's this one scene spoiler alert for anyone that hasn't seen i don't think you guys care but uh one of the... He goes to the moon. One of the astronauts...

That is... Yes, he does make it. But one of the astronauts passes away in Apollo 1's prep mission. Passes away. And his wife is standing out in the... Passes away. Passes on. Passes on.

He lost his life. He lost his life. His wife is standing in the street one day just like staring at it staring i love it i love it already and claire foye goes out and is like what's going on and she just kind of looks at her like she doesn't know why she's in the street and i'm like here's an interesting movie about these wives that had to like move yeah space but like even and even like the space the the thing of the supportive wife and the only woman in the cast is so annoying. But there was this interesting story there about like the grief that comes along with and this daily trudging along of like my husband will probably die.

That was an interesting thing in the movie, which they couldn't explore because God forbid they make a movie about the Armstrongs and it's not about Neil Armstrong. You said something that I feel so strongly. Like, well-made things piss me off so much. Because it's like, anything you can learn how to do, I don't care. Yeah. Like, you know, it's like math. I'm like, I'm not going to be impressed by someone who gets math. In the wrong hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But like, no, if it it's well made and has the soul but it's like it can't just be well made yeah i'll tell you something a lot of that tricks people yeah you speak about doing math fucking i loved hidden figures i never saw i loved it because taraji got to scream yeah and give me taraji screaming in my mind like the hidden figures poster is them walking away from the rocket ship but then they're in like an indoor plaza like they're walking like under like tiles but it's just

like where's this rocket ship that also connects to like a gazebo the truly the most like action packed moment in that movie is Taraji getting on the phone to call Buzz Aldrin that like as he's walking into the rocket like that's like the most high octane it was about something we hadn't seen before and it but it's still like tricked like straight white America into going because it was about space yeah and you learned about people

that you had never heard about and it was had campy moments like her running to the bathroom because she had to use the segregated bathroom and it's like she almost lost her job because she had to run half an hour to there and back to use the restroom. Aren't you so over trying, like having to trick straight people into watching it? It's so annoying. Into everything. Into liking you.

Yeah, it's like, so I'm going to say what I need to say, but like it's also murder, murder. Yeah, I know. The container of it all is so boring. We had like a very long conversation last night with this straight guy that like it was just like well agree to disagree like cause and we were trying to be like

as like no but like you know minorities have had a really hard time for years and like it's okay to feel victimized and like be vocal about it yeah but you have to like you know like want the other side to hear you in order to have progress and I was like no that's so embarrassing.

Like, aren't you embarrassed? And it's, it, it does, it does feel like it's like now some, some minorities over others. It's like, Oh yeah. I'm hearing, I'm like, I'm, it's a long story. I won't get into, but like, I've gotten some very like homophobic feedback in the last month from, from me, from, from Charles and network.

But like the but like the like the common one that like i just heard on friday it's like why can't this be a show about people who happen to be gay not a gay show and it's like you don't get to decide someone who happens to be gay this is a big i don't think so honey i have is people saying well being gay is just one part of me no being gay is like a huge defining part of it is who we are remember after T.R. Knight came out or was forced to come out of the closet the thing that he

said was but being gay is not the most interesting thing about me and already I think you're on the right he is absolutely right and there's not much more but like his gayness is not at the forefront. But whatever. I mean, what if it was?

Who cares? It's just such a stupid thing that we've learned to say because straight people need to hear it. And that is wrong. I know. And it feels so progressive to them. They think it's the right thing to say still. It's crazy. I think I had aunts be like, you know what, Matthew?

When they first found out I was gay, they were you know we don't even care like and we would love anyone that you brought over here and it's like yes this is like the thing that you're supposed to say but like say say say nothing because i don't need this or just be like great yeah or just be like great i i was like you're saying i don't care to someone who comes out? You're literally being like, I don't care. My mother said it's no one's business. So I have to say I don't care. Wow. Yeah, it's more like this thing of like, you know what?

It's nobody's business. And we support you, but we're telling you it's nobody's business. It's like, well, everyone else's sexual proclivities are my whole fucking business. It's the foundation of my existence. The way they sell everything, the way that everything is marketed to us, Everyone else's sexual proclivities are my whole fucking business. It's the foundation of my existence. The way they sell everything, the way that everything is marketed to us, everything, everything, everything. Yes.

I said this literally to that straight guy last night. I was like, you have to understand that like every structure that your people has built is the world we live in. Like literally the words we speak were created by you. Right, right, right. So like, how could you not see that like we're at a disadvantage and he's like no well what he was saying i know because he was saying i had i said everyone is homophobic and he was like that's not true and i was like no but everyone is like we are all participating in america which is a homophobic institution so by proxy everyone

is homophobic even queer people even everyone absolutely every single person and he was like but that means like everyone hates gay people and i was like no no it literally doesn't it means like even growing up if you said like that's gay you're a homophobic person and he like could not accept that that was like he's like anything incidental isn't an act of aggression and it's like it is like it just is like everything that participates in badness is wow he's not yeah and it doesn't mean you can not be a good person like you can be a good person and still participate and just like exercise self-awareness and want to be better yeah totally it's that thing where it's like someone can't accept whatever implicit bias they have in terms of race yeah it's like

yeah then this this disqualifies me as a good person like i can't it's like no just my personhood when you say I might have privileges or a bias and that is not it's like what we have to start telling straight people is like don't worry this isn't about you and you're actually golden that's the worst thing that they can hear though

that's literally what they're asking for they're like I will join your effort as long as I'm not burdened by my own experience as long as you tell me I'm doing a good job. But they're also freaking out that we're not talking about them as much. It's all a reaction. They're used to being talked about all the time.

It's like with First Man, the controversy around it being like they didn't show the American flag being put into the moon's surface. And they're saying it actually kind of flopped and they're saying a big reason kind of flopped and they're saying like a big reason why um is is because ted cruz fucking rang the bell on it and he said to conservatives don't spend your money on this because it's anti-american and that's all people need to hear wow even though that movie is made for them it makes you i was i had a drink with ruby ruby mccall ruby icon of the world did you

just meet her recently yes she isn't she like the most i have never she's a fucking tornado she's unlike anything other yeah anyone else i love her so but she we were talking about like how all of this shit happening and all of it like this this stuff i'm going through with like my projects being too gay for people and it like it makes you want to go underground yes like you're just like okay then like then you then you don't want it yeah like then like i'm never going to impress you right so like i just like have to figure out how to like make my stuff but what are the people who want to see underground now though i guess it's just for the internet then like but i don't think there isn't i think there like needs to be a research of the underground there will be i think there is and it's so funny because we before we had this podcast

we would go in and pitch to people and they would tell us every single time to niche to niche to niche now we're succeeding with the most niche fucking thing ever and it's like well you never gave it a chance and then to hear from those same people that they want to be a part of it. It's like, no. It's so insulting. And then John actually talked about it too early. He was like, when you call me niche, you might as well just call me a faggot. We know what you are saying.

We know what you're saying. Do we call them out? I was too young to and too experienced. Now I would. Now I would say, okay, here's the thing. You asked to meet with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. You know what I mean? You brought us in the room because you liked us. This is us, and we know what us is.

You don't. And I get that that's hard to, and you guys must deal with it all the time, getting network notes. I mean, I know I speak to our close friends about the notes that they get on their projects and stuff like that. It's frustrating to hear from people who think they know you better than you. And the, yes, they are negotiating a lot.

Um, but still it's like, take a fucking chance. Like be brave about the stuff that you like, or otherwise just get some fucking C C plus talent in here and they'll do whatever you say. And don't ask to meet with me. Yeah.

Yeah. Don't meet with me if you're not gonna make what i want to make yeah wait when you and ruby were having this conversation you guys were talking about all the shit that's going on like in the industry or just in like the world in general i both both it's like what what i'm experiencing with the thing i'm going through right now is people being like it's too risky so it limits the audience and they're right because like it is so divided that like some the people who aren't gonna like it are going to hate it and they're not gonna watch it so it's like if if the goal is to have everyone in the universe like yourself

like you're gonna be a shitty artist yeah yeah it's gonna be the worst yeah and so like right now i feel like everyone is like they're not like they're not on the right side. They're not on like the alt right whatever side. But they're trying to find things so close to the middle that they can pretend to be liberal

and still make shitty stuff to everyone. I feel like we already had the liberal peak in TV. Like and I feel like now it's going down. I would agree because and I like the show

but Search Party. Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. But it should be canceled. But Search Party is baseline. No, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, I think, is, you saw it, won the Comedy Emmy, sweep the Emmys. I think it's a fake show. It does well.

It's not a real TV show. We have all agreed it exists or something. It is a pitch on the paper that everyone said, this is something that the most people will like. Because it's going to satisfy people who want female stories, who want stories about women in comedy, specific stories, because it is a specific story.

It also takes place in an era of time where we're nostalgic for it. It looks good. It's a chance to launch a star good yeah you know um it's a chance it's like butterscotch and you know what like i get why it is successful i also think it is emblematic of what you were saying which is not it's not a risk yeah no not at all no yeah it it just sucks that like we we again came up and in generation that it's like oh my God, maybe we can do this in a real way. And maybe we can get real money to make our stuff

and not do it John Waters style, not spend like $1,000 on a movie. And so now if it turns back, that's such like, oh my God, I have to rethink everything that I've worked towards. Wow. And you think it is returning back? I am experiencing it so hard right now. So like I'm...

Who knows though? Like in two years it's like everything is going to be like there's five Netflix's that you have to sign up for and like each one is going to have

7,000 pieces of content and no one will ever remember a single artist in history. And like I don't know what it's going to turn into. I mean I'll just... The fact that John and Kate couldn't get there

is so weird. And with so many platforms out there, not one of them would buy that show. It is crazy. We saw it. We saw it. It was great. It was so them. And there is an audience for that.

Yeah. And it's just like, seriously? These are two of the most talented people coming up. I know. In the world. In the world. Can I say one thing about Marvelous Mrs. Maisel? Yeah, say.

He's never seen it. I saw 20 seconds of the pilot. I can't believe that font, that I Dream of Jeannie cocktail font with sparkles is psychotic. Thank you for saying that. To see that on a billboard and be like, that's a great show. You know, I like the show and Rachel Brosnan is a friend and I think she's so talented and she's amazing on the show. But the title of the show drives me insane.

And I just think it's not a risk show. You know what I mean? It looks like Nanny McPhee. Like from the- Nanny McPhee. It looks like she must be a witch, right? It has to be. Like you see the title and you're like,

she's marvelous and this is the font? Yeah. Oh, she's gonna- She's got power. She's got power. She's got power. You're a pretty little witch. God's up to some tricks in this show. God is up to some tricks in this show.

God is up to some tricks in this show. There's going to be some tricks happening. Matt, you know what I love to do sometimes? What do you love to do sometimes? Is to just lounge in my room, go on Everlane and truly shop till it's not cute. But it is cute because it's from Everlane. It's always cute. I mean, Everlane is the cutest. And here's the thing. Let's just imagine a scenario. Would you buy a $50 t-shirt if you knew it only cost $7 to make? I mean, I would not. With Everlane, you never overpay for quality clothes. And they're always transparent.

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That's everlane.com slash ding dong. everlane.com slash ding dong. D-I-N-G-D-O-N-G. Everlane. E-V-E-R-L-A-N-E. What is this? A spelling bee or something? What is this?

And the winner of the Scripps spelling bee is Matthew Rogers. Thank you. I'll be taking my winnings and using them at Everlane. I do want to say really quickly, peak broad drama for me is The Hours with Julianne Moore. Yes, honey. That's great. And The Flooding, right? Yeah. The nose. That's really good. is the hours with Julianne Moore in bed and like flooding right?

The nose. There was no reason for her to wear that nose but she wore that nose. Broad drama. I mean Nicole Kidman knows how to do broad drama. She's also, I like this period of her just cycling through costumes aggressively just being like new look new look. Can you believe

the Destroyer trailer have you seen it no which one is in this new movie called destroyer she plays like a woman who's like gonna kill everyone it's like it's like a d glam thing yeah but it's so funny i've seen that yeah that woman puts on a wig and yeah she is a wig actress yeah yeah she is boy erased she like it's like oh these people don't go together. Like Lucas Hedges, this new version of Russell Crowe that we didn't know he was slowly dying in a trailer somewhere. He's waterlogged, honey. And Nicole Kidman in like full Dallas.

It's like, wait, wait, wait, this is not an American family I have ever seen. It's drag. Everyone is in a different drag in that movie. I mean, that might be the closest thing we're going to get this year to a broad drama. Boy Erased? Is that fair to say? Well, the thing is, though...

Yeah, did you see, like, he holds a Bible up and he's like, do I throw it? I kind of want to see it. Troye Sivan is in it. Troye Sivan is in it. That's a choice.

That's a choice. You know what I mean? Maybe even Vox Lux might be, like, broad drama. Oh, Vox Lux is glam. Glam drag. Glam drag. Have you seen this trailer

for this movie? No. Natalie Portman in Vox Lux? No, I haven drag. Glam drag. Have you seen this trailer for this movie? No. Natalie Portman in Vox Lux? No, I haven't. It's essentially she's playing Lady Gaga. Oh, great. And I know what the... Do you know what the movie is about?

Well, she's not the main character. It's Jude Law is the main character. Well, sort of. So Natalie Portman takes over the second half of the movie, or half of the movie. If it's nonlinear, I don't know. But the movie is about a girl who survives a school shooting. And during a tribute to her classmates that have died, she does a performance, and they sign her to a record deal.

And she becomes a Lady Gaga-type pop star. And it's about the trauma of that being the reality of her success. See, I love that. Well, I had such concerns for Emma Gonzalez. type pop star and it's about the trauma of that being the reality of her success see i love i love that i feel well i had such concerns for emma gonzalez i'm like you're too famous you don't like i know for widows or no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no she's iconicized oh Dallin M she's from Dallin M she's Adventure Time Dallin M

oh my god wait you know she's the new Doctor Who oh my god but didn't you have that worry it's like you're

famous now you don't know how to deal with this like a talk show or something to be able to and the other one and the other one too

David the boy and you want to know why it's because they're both attractive kids and the thing is like you worry about what they're going to do with someone like that and you want to know why? It's because they're both attractive kids. And the thing is, you worry about what they're going to do with someone like that. And you have to think, mainstream media,

they look at you and they don't think message. They think money. That's true. You, Bowen. That's me. They look at you and they say money. I say message. They look at you, Bowen Yang and Hurl. No, Bowen has no message. Text messages.

Absolutely. He's text messaged. He's not messaged. Bowen has no message. Text messages. Text messages. Absolutely. Yes. He's text messages. He's not a message. I think Vox Lux looks really good. But don't the fact that that's what it's about make you want to see it more?

Because it's about... Don't the fact that... Don't the fact that... Don't the fact that... But don't the fact that that's what it's about make you want to see it more? I love her. Full transformation. That's me doing job well. No, dude, like... Don't the fact that that's me doing no dude like

don't don't go that's what it's about this is McKenzas this is McKenzas this is a callback to McKenzas a character

I saw this character that you worked with right Mary the Ketchup was that not her oh my god who was Mary the Ketchup somebody you worked with

at like a restaurant oh my god who was Mary the Ketchup wait I don't remember this restaurant. Oh my God. Who was marrying the ketchup? I don't remember this. She was like, just go marry the ketchup. Go marry the ketchup. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I got an altercation with someone at work and the way she ended the conversation

was to go marry the ketchup. That was the end of that. Right that. Whether I did it or not, I was bad at my side work. So I don't know. But are we like part of like your crew? Do you feel like? No.

On the periphery? No, I look at you two and I'm just like, I we like part of like your crew? Do you feel like on the periphery? No, I look at you too. And I'm just like, I'm a little bit like aspirational. Yeah. I'm like, oh, they're doing something. No, I feel like you guys are having fun. We look at you and we're like, I want to be part of that. They're a good, fun New York crew.

I think, can I say what this is? This is a New York and LA thing. You think so? Because I think the way I see like oh you guys in Los Angeles and you guys are like working and I think you guys see us in New York and we're like performing and living

laughing loving at like 24 got her job at SNL and so she sometimes I say to her like oh god you have like this job you have this like boss-ass job. It's like all this cool stuff. And she says, but you guys are out there.

And I was like, you know, the grass is always greener. But I look at you guys and I think doing a cool fucking show that everyone loves, that you guys must be to stand by because it's such a good show. I mean, come on. What's better than Search Party? John should be up for an Emmy. He should be up for an Emmy. He should be perennially up for an Emmy.

And Alia should, too. Alia should for Lead Actress. And Meredith should be nominated for an Emmy. They're all so good. And the show should be up for writing Emmys and directing Emmys. And I think people do think of it as a prestige thing. But it's this weird thing. Because I do watch these awards races and it's

like this attitude about knowing that something is better than everything else but saying we have to count it out because of the network it's the same story with crazy ex-girlfriend yeah yeah yeah you know well both of them have like a queer perspective and i think even though like search pretty isn't overtly gay i mean it's got like it and it entered the door not gay and it's gotten gayer and gayer especially this season but like I think just like queer perspective is like oh well that's good and that should go over here and we should adore it but we shouldn't like let it in all the way and it's like you kind of have to be and I this isn't this is disagreeing with what you're saying and it's different but like you kind of have to be like boy erased or something you know like where it's like here's gay and like the most obvious for an order it is like it's that like it is niche like no matter what like but these things that are on are there are so many things that are nominated that are also niche yeah i think it genuinely comes down to like the politics of the whole thing you don't see a representation of the best stuff you see a representation of the best or it slips

through the cracks because it's like at homes with am Amy Sedaris where it's like, oh, but there's no competition. Right. Yeah, comedy is a big competition. You got Kimmy Schmidt. Yeah. You got Willing It. As long as it's a thing, it will be up there. And I fucking love Kimmy Schmidt.

I actually love it too. I think Kimmy Schmidt is the only funny comedy that's up there i totally agree because atlanta's great yeah it's not a comedy and marvel's miss mazel is is good yes and it's certainly not well made but it's not imagine imagine like laughing out loud watching that show i left out i left my fucking ass off to unbreakable kimmy schmidt because there's jokes yeah these other shows don't have the jokes when she's like i left the tuna in don't have the jokes. When she's like, I left the tuna in the fridge too long. And then it's like, yeah!

And that show is set up punchline! And that show is broad. That is broad. Tina Fey gets broad. Yeah, she does. She really does. She's good at that. She embraces camp. She does. Wait, can we move on? Should we move on to Jordan? Wait, Jordan, we need to know the culture. Yeah, shit. I was like, I really was thinking so hard about this and the answer stuff off the

answer i'm gonna say is so pretentious but i felt like the first thing i fell head over heels in love with was sondheim yeah and that's the moment i realized that I wasn't ever going to be in real culture because like I would like try to introduce Sondheim to like my high school friends and they wouldn't get it at all did you take all your friends to the movie version of Sweeney Todd I took us all I said no I knew I had a premonition that like this wasn't the thing I was gonna sell them I like but I brought friends over to watch Into the Woods like the whole thing of Into the Woods like people left yeah the recording of Bernadette yeah

they don't get it yeah and I was like if you if like if the thing that is like making my heart sore more than anything like that's making me think in a different way than I ever had isn't being understood like this is just what I have to like yeah that just speaks to you sort of having a more advanced taste

brain brain yeah wait what did you sing that night at the duplex that you came in with Larry Owens you sang he sang Sunday in the Park Yeah, that just speaks to you sort of having a more advanced taste. Brain. Brain. Wait, what did you sing that night at the Duplex that you came in with Larry Owens? He sang Sunday in the Park, and then you sang- I think I might have sang Ladies Who Lunch. Oh, you did. That sounds right. I remember you belting Rise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I do too.

Oh my God, that was a wonderful moment. And that was the first time we met in person. Yeah, I think so, because we had been internet friends. I don't even think we were internet friends. I don't think we had met. I thought you like, weren't like wanted me gone. No.

Me? Kind of. Oh my God. Can I tell you something? That was always a weird negotiating thing for me. Cause I was the first lady of the Dupucs at that time. Cause Henry was my, my betrothed.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so people coming in, you were like a little like... Not even people coming in. I was always just kind of like negotiating like...

You wanted to make sure everyone was having fun. I wanted to make sure everyone was having fun. That is actually, now that you think about it, that's what I sensed. It was like you were half there,

half there, half there. I felt like I was hosting. Yeah, exactly. And honestly, I would love to sing again. I don't get... It's like one part of me that like i have completely lost and i miss singing we gotta can i tell you something oh i hate that

that's the impression i gave off because it's not the first time no don't don't worry but like are my manager cara told me that the first time she met me she still thought i was being c-u-n-t-y to her and i was like i hope i don't like give off this. Her words, her words, her words. Yeah. But it's just like, I don't,

I hope that's not the impression I give off. Well, maybe, maybe like, maybe there was like a few months where you were doing that. And like, now you're over it. You were in a terrible place. I was in a terrible place.

Yeah. And don't the fact that you were struggling mean that you do, you do that to him. Don't you feel that? Don't you like feel that though? Don't you feel that? I'm always hosting. You feel this way?

That's a great answer, Sondheim. Okay, best show for you. Yeah, what do you love? I mean, the one, the first one that- Can I play that game too? Yeah, please, please. I mean like Sunday was so huge for me.

Sunday is a big deal. But then Company was also really huge for me yeah yeah yeah I would say those are my two and I have very soft spot for we're gonna see company we're seeing company

in London oh yes Jeffrey was telling us you guys are all going to the UK for Christmas that sounds so nice yes he did tell us that that sounds

really that sounds different wait can everyone say their sound times yeah I mean mine is mine is basically I think it's like a masterpiece mine is Sweeney mine is basically, I think it's like a masterpiece.

Mine is Sweeney. Great. I mean, I just think it's, talk about specific and blowing it out and just genius music. The performances, I love that you can still argue about character motivations. I love the way that it can be interpreted

so many different ways. Watching that, the comedy of it as an adult, I'm like, Sondheim is such the artist you look up to because you knew where he was at his in his life every show yeah and it's like you watch sweeney and you're like oh like he really had a darkness about what life was like that show is so about how humanity is bad and so like i've been in those places and like to make

pieces of art like reflecting everything you feel in a certain time period. And it's like comedy is all about being single. Merrily is all about dreams. Like, like you see like at what he was feeling at every stage. Yeah. It's just, it's Shakespearean.

I feel. Yeah. I mean, the characters are, and I just, at any time there's a performance of it, I always seek it out whether on any level. Cause I'm just like,

I just love this. And some of the music is so good. Truly beautiful. Yeah. I mean, and startling. And I love that it's scary. It is scary. It is very scary.

I mean, the music is shocking. And it's gross. It's gross. It's disgusting. It's gross in a good way. Everyone's filthy. Right. And everyone's like a beggar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The movie bothered me so much. But even the movie, I'm like, I'll still watch it because it's Sweeney and i still think there's good things they lost i couldn't feel it oh they lost the fun they lost the fun i mean absolutely it wasn't shot for a musical either it would just be like it was a total missed opportunity but it's still like you love the world but there's like want to be in it no matter what there's things about it i love like like i like i like i think that helena bottom carter shouldn't have been cast in the part but there's elements of her performance i like i like her yeah i understand being like

really racked about the things she's doing i love that how obviously in love with him she was sometimes the way angela lansbury plays it it's like so wacky that i miss her motivations i know that's kind of like i think the fun don't you feel like she was like like instead of singing to like you she was singing to like the. Don't you feel like she was like, like instead of singing to like you, she was singing to like the back of her head. Yes. Like she was like trying to, who held him on him. Yeah.

Don't you feel like, I mean, you couldn't understand the words, which is, I know. Yeah. Yeah. Of Sondheim.

Of Sondheim. It's like, at least fucking bite the consonants. And if you can't understand the words in a Sondheim thing, you're done. Then it's just fucking. Then what are words? Yeah. What are words why are you spending

so much money on this every song is just there's a whole world in every song and I love that I love that don't you feel like with Helena Bonham Carter

you're always like she's like your friend that's like up there at the talent show and you're like please win like you are like please please

I hope everyone else sees it we know this is in you and then they kind of miss the mark and you're like fuck but I do know her and like yeah I mean and you know what the thing about her is just like do

something different i mean i think her best performance is bellatrix lestrange it is that's her freest performance that's camp it's not even do something different it's like do what you do well as well as well as you can with that i agree with you i rescind what i said i agree with that well oceans eight like exposed like her what what's crazy about her as an actor. It was just like she had 19 reactions to one sentence. And they would keep all of them in. And you're like, oh, my God, cut away from her. No, no, cut away from her.

She's going crazy. She was like, no, she was just giving you options. I know. You kept all of them. Are you crazy? She can do not batty. She can do grounded like Big Fish was her

to speak of I love Big Fish me too I love the ending of Big Fish oh my god I should hope everyone wait what happens at the end everyone comes to the lake

yeah yeah yeah that I recently said on Miss Pod it makes me cry that makes me cry every time every time I used to watch it if I needed to cry

and then I watched it too many times yes still to this day okay Charles Charles you go well I still haven't seen Company and I still haven't seen Assassins but Assassins is great and Charles Charles you go well I still haven't seen Company and I still

haven't seen Assassins but Assassins is great and there's probably something else I still haven't seen but I would say I mean

because like I knew Into the Woods really well before we started dating and then Jordan we went to go see a few more Sondheim things and I

I would say it's between Merrily and Sunday in the Park with George like I can't like Merrily I was like we saw in LA it was a. Merrily, I was like, we saw in LA. It was a pretty good production overall.

And I was sobbing. Except for, oh my God. Wayne Brady. Wayne Brady. It was next level. Resented every moment of doing the show. Pilled out. No.

Or got lines. No, I think he was on pills. I really think he's gone. Wait, Wayne Brady was Bobby? No, in Merrily. Oh, Merrily. Oh, sorry. I was like, wait.

But he has that so long. Mutter, mutter, mutter, mutter. Yes, Jerome.rily. Oh, Merrily. Oh, sorry. I was like, wait. But, like, he has this whole line, mutter, mutter, mutter, mutter, yes, Jerome, mutter, nut, like, that whole, like, Franklin Chevron act. He literally was forgetting lyrics, forgetting, like. It's such a gift to have, to be given that song.

Yeah. Oh, my God. But I don't know. I just love the, like, all this stuff about success and, like, the sadness of, like, friendships, partying, and, like, I don't know.

I feel like I've felt that now and like just like harnessing that energy of like hope like don't you are you so nostalgic for being so young and hopeful I know so genius that the most positive song is the

saddest song yeah yeah and when you first moved to New York and you're like looking up at that like you saw the light on the buildings and you were just like, fuck my future. It was so like powerful. Yes. And now I'm like, I'm late. Yeah. It's like I'm so hungry.

That's like, that's my thoughts now. Yeah, I know. And then you walk around for 30 minutes because you can't decide what to eat. Yeah, I know. And that's the day. I literally had that happen this morning. Yeah. Now I'm just sad about Our Time.

I know. I know. Or what's the other one I mean the song where they're all like putting on the play together opening doors that's so riveting was that the show in Lady Bird too yeah they did opening doors

it's such a happiness march a blind march this is boring but I feel like Sunday too or Into the Woods was the first thing I saw just like the taping Yeah. Yeah. It's such a happiness march. Yeah. A blind march. Yes. Yeah. This is boring, but I feel like it's Sunday too. Or Into the Woods was the first thing I saw. Just like the taping. Into the Woods is like such a masterpiece. It's a masterpiece. It's truly.

Because it says everything about every aspect of existence. Yes. It's every single thing in life. Yeah. And I thought that movie was a lot closer. I actually didn't mind the movie. There's a few things that I was like, I don't want to see James Corden in my life ever. Sure.

And like, Emily Blunt was fine, but like, I just thought it like, it like, she was good. I just really like, it looked like too real and too fake at the same time.

I get that. Like, the look of it was not for me. All musicals do now. They're all, they're all CGI. Well, I have a theory.

I have a theory about why musical movies don't work now. It's because like, for a musical to work, it has to look fake enough that you could suspend your disbelief that people are singing. Yes. And, like, when they look real, you're like, wait, my brain doesn't understand. Like, it just seems so fake.

That's why it worked in old Hollywood back in the day. Yes, that's why, like, old movie musicals work. Yeah. And, like, new ones just don't. But it's the same, like, problem as, like, Jurassic World or any of these movies. Yeah. It's like, I can't tell what's CGI.

Like, I just stop because my eyes hurt Jungle Book I'm like this is like I'm not impressed like after two minutes I'm not impressed and it looks wrong they're gonna fuck up Wicked aren't they they're gonna fuck up Lion King for sure Wicked is like if it gets fucked up it's kind of fun to fuck it up

you know what I mean like I don't know to me I don't need it to be the best but I know other people have that like I grew up with it feeling Ariana is doing it she's gonna be Elphaba she could be Glinda she would be a better Glinda I think she doesn't have any of the comic personality

Elphaba why couldn't you stay calm you do not have to be an actress to play Elphaba you have to be an actress to play Alphaba. You have to be an actress to play Glinda. Oh, you have to be funny. You have to be funny. I'm so in my head about this.

Who's going to play Glinda? Joel said this actress Dove Cameron. Oh, who's very good. Who was in Hairspray live. She played Amber Von Tussle. I remember liking her. But like enough did we like her enough

I mean I wanted this is annoying but I wanted Anne Hathaway and Kristen Bell but now they're too old aren't they? they can play like college students I don't yeah I don't want to see Kristen Bell do that I don't think

she's right for it but I just I know every choice I don't want to see Kristen Bell do that, I don't think. She's right for it, but I just, I don't think. I know every choice. Yeah. I could probably do every choice that she would make. Wow. I don't agree. I think she'd give it like a dark, bitchy energy that I think that I see in the good place,

which I didn't see from her before. Can Margot Robbie sing? She'd be good. It would be so weird. She's too raw. I would guarantee she cannot. Yeah, which I didn't see from her before. Can Margot Robbie sing? She'd be good. It would be so weird. She's too raw. I would guarantee she cannot. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I like her. She's too much of a real person. I'm a huge fan. Yeah. I don't really know her besides I, Tonya, I guess. What's the thing you love her for?

Wolf of Wall Street is good. Oh, yeah. Right. She's broad and campy in the Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah. She's really fun. Do you know who would be a fucking amazing Glinda? Who?

Is Vanessa Bayer. Yeah. It would be great. Oh, whoa. It should be somebody like that yeah yeah whoa like it would be so genuinely funny i cannot imagine her like belting and like it's so funny but like glinda has like a weird froggy voice as like she's a soprano it needs to be people like that yeah like i don't know especially like young people i don't know how funny like nikki cameron or whatever i'm like oh she sucks like just because i don't like any young person i don't know i'm like oh they're a shoe store i don't i don't know especially like young people I don't know how funny would her Nikki Cameron or whatever I'm like oh she sucks like just because I don't like any young person I don't know I'm like

oh they're a shoe store I don't I don't they're a shoe store Dove Cameron's Instagram is insane Dove Cameron I just remember one time like Jennifer Hudson who I follow on Instagram posted Dove Cameron singing and you just hear in the background Jennifer Hudson go sing Dove

she just looks she's one of those people who like is she's the female Zac Efron where she's so good at this thing and then like she puts on like gender drag like aggressive yeah right drag to be like I'm a woman or

I'm a masked dude it's like oh no no no no where's Zac Efron he's like oh wait this is dove dove cameron dove cameron where's that zach everyone is like he's doing he's a math hyper right right right right right right right um okay is it time it's time okay we're gonna do it i don't think so and i don't think so sorry for did we have to come with stuff for the podcast you know wait what do you mean like we don't really have i i thought i had one and then I found out that John Early's been doing like a whole set

about it for like years well why don't you just go off the cuff go off the cuff we do off the cuff all the time like the one I'm gonna do tonight is like not prepared

yeah so then we're gonna go first and then you guys go but it's not like you don't have a tro-ball situation no okay so we should

have something yeah yes yes yes is there anything in this bag a muffin okay I don't think there's any muffins I love it's a lot to say yeah they're literally So we should have something. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Is there anything in this bag? A muffin. Okay. I don't think so.

Any muffins? I love this. A lot to say. Yeah, they're literally making fat. They're mostly dry. Yeah, 100%. I mean, there's a good part of it's the top and the rest of it is a fucking nightmare.

You have something? I have something. Great. This is Matt Rogers' I Don't Think So Honey's Time Starts Now. I Don't Think So Honey barbecue. Like barbecue food. I Don't Think So Honey's Time Starts Now. I Don't Think So Honey barbecue. Like barbecue food. I don't think so honey because you're fucking sticky.

You really like, you fill me up immediately. I don't think so honey or a sweetie or a sweetheart. Food that the second I've taken two bites of you, I'm full. Because I like to enjoy everything. I Don't Think So Honey barbecue. Whenever you are in front of me, I eat the mac and cheese and the mashed first bitch i go to you last i don't think so honey barbecue there's a lot other foods i'd rather eat here are some japanese food here's another one fast food honestly any sort of fast food i would rather ingest than you barbecue bitch i don't think so honey also every

single barbecue restaurant there's a long ass line because a lot of these other motherfuckers like barbecue and i that's good for those honeys but for me honey i don't think so honey i'd rather go to let's list a southern restaurant which is no never mind that's oftentimes barbecue i went to justin timberlake's restaurant um oh in new york and it was. It was not good. Don't go there. It's a barbecue joint and I don't think so, honey. That's what's in it. That was great. I gotta tell you. The feeling full thing, you're right, like three bites. Immediately.

You really, with barbecue food, with ribs, with barbecue anything, you start eating it and you're like, I think it's something about the hearty smell of it or something. But you're always, and you get tricked by barbecue. Because you think you want to eat it because barbecue sauce is good aroma. And then you're hungry.

And you sit there and you're like, oh, wow, I'm so full. And also, ordinarily, you'll have a beer with barbecue. And then you're filled with that. Chips are pretty good, the barbecue chips, I think. You think that's the same thing? Yeah. No, chips, I think. You think that's the same thing? Yeah. No, I don't think. I think it's an exception. And I want to say something. I am all about barbecues.

The event. The event. Yes. Oh, yeah. They bring people together. They bring people. They bring so many people together. It's the actual cuisine. It's the cuisine of barbecue. I've never had it. I don't know. I've never had a burger you've never done so many things

are you vegan he's pescatarian I never watch tv do you ever watch tv and eat barbecue at the same time no honey because I'm famously very much a Charles Rogers I don't watch television and clearly I'm on the record I don't think so honey barbecue

we're family imagine if we were out we were related we probably are Matt and Charles Rogers I can see it and Bowen and I are related and then Jordan and I are related that's why like

when he was 15 he's like why am I not in New York I welcome you I should be there I think we leave it would different like we came in

like this and we leave you guys aren't dating no I'm just kidding no that was that was a missive thank you I just felt I felt I needed to say it thank you You guys aren't dating? No. I'm just kidding. That was that was a missive.

Thank you. I just felt I felt I needed to say it. Thank you. And now it's Bowen Yang's time. Great. Have I done this before?

Tell me what it is. No. If you have done it before I will stop you. Stop me. Great. This is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So Honey

and it's time to start now. I Don't Think So Honey me not getting a fucking I Voted sticker in my absentee ballot. You've done this. I've done this? okay stop the clock stop the clock how many times have you voted this week this week you did this i got i got two ballots in the mail it's it's that that that is a trap for fraud for the man validate my ballots by the way that has to stay in that

that'll stay in that's fine that's fine um okay i've got something and this is bo and yang's second attempt at this i don't think so honey time starts now i don't think so honey sax fifth avenue bitch these gucci shoes that i just bought as my present to myself for my birthday were too expensive but i made an exception but but honey we it just opened up my eyes to this whole new world and thinking shouldn't everyone be afforded the privilege of wearing a deconstructed Kenzo sweater? I mean God, I mean like who these are

bullshit markers of status that I think should just be completely democratized and for the price point to be so egregiously high is truly a travesty. You know what, I think Sax is the next to fall with the Lord and Tay tailors of the world i think or i think we're i will mourn the day that sax you know leaves all of our lives but

i mean where else am i whatever what i'm trying to say is these shoes that i bought were too expensive and i also do want to just tell everyone that i bought myself gucci shoes um for for my birthday and um you know what like that's like me just like becoming more self-actualized as a person as i move into my 30s. Five seconds. And I hope everyone knows that I have it figured out. And that's one minute. You know, Bowen Yang, she do love to spend a dollar or two on the clothing items. I love clothes. I think it's important.

It's important to. To constantly be changing. If it makes you feel fabulous. Absolutely. And like that's, I'm capping it at that. I think I buy thousands of articles of clothing for cheap, and I think it is nice to buy fewer things but expensive. One nice thing. I have discovered this too.

I feel better about the quality of the stuff I'm wearing. I'd rather pay $50 for one good shirt than $22 on two mediocre shirts. I'm on such a good vintage kick though. Like I found my places in LA and I'm like I can't stop. That's okay but sometimes vintage is

also like quality. I feel like if you don't keep buying clothes it's like you can't like grow. Your personality isn't growing. You're not like changing.

That's huge. And that's why America's falling. It's a clothes thing. It's a clothes thing. Alright let's go in the same order we asked culture questions. We'll do Charles first. Charles first. oh my god okay this is impromptu and this is

charles rogers's i don't think so honey and this time starts now i don't think so honey eye contact psychotic it is a rule by god it doesn't make sense it puts you in your head it's the most natural and most easy thing that you're ever supposed to do and somehow it it has started wars it is true i expect what i fucking really hate is during a comedy and some like there's like on screen something's funny happening the whole audience laughs and then somebody turns to you and tries to share a laugh i don't like evil psychotic behavior i'm not gonna enter your soul and the second you say eye contact all bets are off nobody can look each other in the eyes it starts normal eye contact we can't even relate

it's crazy we should gouge our eyes out we should replace them I don't know honey I hate eye contact let's see what else do I hate about eye contact I hate that I can see how people think of me when they look at me

the microaggressions even looking at you right now. I love you. I see a guardedness. I see a judgment. That's one minute. Okay, wait. I do the thing where when I am laughing at something in a large movie theater, I will turn and I will look at someone.

It is so scary to me to receive that. Usually that means you're my favorite person there. That's so sweet. That's so sweet. He didn't do that to you though. I wrote in my best friend. Thank you so much. My best friend, Allison, I wrote in her yearbook.

I know we don't say cute things like this, but I just want to tell you that whenever we're watching something and I think something's funny, I always look at you first to see if you think it's funny too. That's really sweet. That's very nice. So it's like a dependency. It's like a dependence. No, it's a let's enjoy it together. I love you. Yeah, I feel that.

I always grab you and look at you. Yeah, I've never had a laugh to myself when we see something together. You guys laugh together. That's nice. We always laugh together. I'm thinking more like people you don't know well. It's more like deep friends. Yes, yes. But that happens and it's wild. There always laugh together. I'm thinking more like strange, like people you don't know well. It's more like, not friends, deep friends. Yes,

yes. But that happens and it's wild. There is somebody I went to NYU with who was like that. Who was like, and it was like,

honestly, sometimes I use eye contact like at bars and stuff. Like I use eye contact as like a thing of like, just so you know, I do want to fuck you. Yeah.

One time, one time it really almost, it works a lot, but one time it worked with this guy I really liked where I was like, I do want to fuck you. Yeah, for sure. One time it really almost, it works a lot, but one time it worked with this guy I really liked where I was like, I grilled him eye contact and he was like, we should hang out.

And I'm like, yeah, we should. It immediately worked. But then we didn't end up hooking up. Sometimes it's a trap. When both people just can't stop looking at each other's eyes and it's like, I don't know how to even speak a word now.

It's what you're supposed to do. You use eye contact for evil and not good. We said we were going to oh my god but he'll like he'll like the way he likes to use eye contact is like remember when you were on the subway you had this thing you were doing a lot where he would just pick someone to stare at oh yeah that's me just like stare just to see just and not break eye contact yeah mike the caricature of me is evil though you should yeah yeah okay i'm on too many podcasts where we're like i'm a sociopath like it's getting like it's not good for my brain bragging about how many podcasts oh my god all right okay i don't know if i have a minute of material for this it doesn't matter yeah you do you don't realize

and jordan firstman's i don't think so honey time starts. You don't realize. And Jordan Firstman's I Don't Think So Honey. Time starts now. I Don't Think So Honey portrait mode. It looks so fucking shitty. It looks like someone used a fucking eraser and then erased everything outside of you and erased the trees. There's no depth of field. It is

a trick. Even on the new iPhones where there are two cameras. Sorry, you have it but i'm sorry it looks fucking cheap and if you use portrait old like you are showing the world that you're old and you think you're like oh blurry background that's what young people do i have to do that too oh my god 30 seconds and you know what you know what on top of that i'm fucking tired of depth of field in general whoa i want a want a clean, sharp image. Flat. I want flat. I want everything in sight to be seen.

It's like we've done that. We saw the birth of DSLRs, and they have died. We don't need them anymore. We don't need you to adjust your focus. I want a flat image. I want to see the trees in the background, and I want to see your shirt

and your outfit in the foreground, and that's what young people should be doing. And that's what I did. You had it. Are you kidding me? Wow. Believe in yourselves. I think, you know what?

I mean, that was salient. I have to agree. I'm also, I've taken a couple portrait modes where trees are the trap. Yeah. If it's against like a wall or a brick wall or something. Right.

Because the branches like sometimes dissolve and then they come back and turn into branches and then they dissolve again. And it's like, oh. And it might. Because the branches like sometimes dissolve and then they come back and turn into branches and then they dissolve again and it's like, oh. And then when they meet like the outline of your face,

it's just like. There's a halo of clarity sometimes. I'm sorry, but front facing portrait mode. That's crazy. Insane. That is crazy.

Seek treatment. Seek treatment. Seek treatment. Or should we say, I don't think so, honey. Oh my God. Big war. Big war.

Podcast war. Podcast war that Jolkin Booster yeah it's like you wtf yeah what's the team alec baldwin alec baldwin um yeah it's really it's really an all-out war um before we wrap this up i i said i was gonna do something and i can't leave without doing it which is i have to out charles as being a listener of podcast the ride and he's also a oh my god he's also a theme park i am i am but i could never compete on the level that you can compete on but you don't know that because i have shame i have a lot you don't have shame which is good that's homophobia it's totally internalized homophobia you know theme parks are inherently the gayest they are the gayest there's that saying that like Disneyland is more real than

Vegas or whatever Disneyland tells you it's fake but Vegas doesn't Disneyland's the only real place and that's why theme parks are straight guys I have to disagree theme parks are so straight no straight people ruin it no straight people wanted little children and girls especially

to stay young forever and then fuck them and so they created this world where they can fuck little kids gay people have arrested development that is the same as musical theater they have arrested development they stay in a candy land and then other people are like it's not so bad there I hear what you're saying

but I feel that roller coaster parks are for the straights. I hate six. Yeah, that's true. No, but I feel like there's nothing more disgusting than be like, let just kids be kids. You know what I want to see? That's why I say no kids in the Magic Kingdom. It should be for me.

That's true. It should be gays only adult gays. It should be out on the mountain every day. It should be a circuit party. It should be out on the mountain every day. It should be a circuit party. It should be fucking. And I heard that like literally my friends that have been to the gay days at Disney World say that there's like come on the goddamn haunted mansion. Like people are hooking up there.

That's what I hear. If you. Okay. Just think about this. If they opened up a theme park. In Palm Springs. Oh my God. Like the people would fucking go crazy.

Right. Yeah. So there you go i yeah it's it's truly i i i have no ill will i just don't i don't enjoy you would never go with charles i have and like i it's the same part of you that's like america's stupid europe is good you know what i mean like that's the same that's the same part of you that's me when when we go together that's me i am very much like no you you buy into it you don't do that to me I feel like you love it I do but then I do

come around to it it's so hard to not my theory can't be proven because you're pretty middle class right grew up middle class yeah so like I feel like growing up middle class like anything that is like a little bit gross you're like I'm civilized I'm sophisticated that's below me

whereas like you grew up thinking you were rich so you can do poor people things right i grew up i grew up was upper middle class you're upper middle i grew up in the poorest part of america so like so my theory my theory doesn't wow my theory doesn't hold well interesting but i do think i think theme parks are gay like disneyland is very gay it's all about escapism and everyone that works there is gay yeah and they have a lot of gay benefits yeah there's no there's no reason to escape everyone gets free prep at disneyland shut up that's cute i really bought it i bought it feels possible i bought it very gullible all up i've been very gullible we have we've both been like the whole linkedin thing it was like real deadness that people think everyone's like oh yeah Charles

meanwhile I would have said that joke like yeah on the way here we I also like coming into this energy we were both so tired and like you guys really did lift it's true welcome back to life but coming coming here charles is like i like just don't know if i'm like gay enough like if i don't know i can't talk fast enough you guys are gay enough you guys are definitely gay recently're definitely gay Sudi recently said someone was asking Sudi I think we were upstate and like maybe she was talking to Mo

or Dave or something and she was talking about a gay person and the question of how gay they were like arrived and she goes I mean they're not gay

like which is like what we do but they're gay but she literally used the barometer for gayness so we're upper bound gay.

Niche. Yeah. I like the one. What's the one? Fuck. What's one of your catchphrases that I like so much? I don't like my words, but I do know my heart. No, it's like.

Yucks of corks. Yucks of corks. Oh, yeah. I like yucks of corks. Thank you. And there's a new one. You feel this way? You feel this way?

You feel this way? When someone says something like titillating. It's like, are you serious? Yeah. Yeah. You feel this way you serious stylized eyes capital U capital F-E-E-L

capital T-H-I-S capital W-A-Y it's all caps you have to actually say that it's mixed case you have to confirm it wait you feel this way Charles no

this was a fantastic episode I made it um this is this was a fantastic episode i loved it covered the whole spectrum yes we did this episode was like into the woods we're like we're all aspects of life oh yeah yeah wait what were you listening um these four handers baby I love a four hander keeps it moving well I love anytime there's four gays in a room five five

our new permanent producer permanent producer that's the highest producer title we should definitely break to the listeners HPJ is moving to LA and he won't be in the room for us to harass anymore. So now we have HPE, hot producer Emma.

Who always has just very tasteful fashions. Always wears sharp, smart clothes. Great shoes. Sharp, great shoes. Very Janixa, right? Yeah. Like her outfit at Janixa Bravo. I think that's true.

And queer, which is important to me. Yes. Representation matters in producership. In producers that's true. And queer, which is important to me. Yes. Representation matters in producership. In producership, absolutely. In permanent producership. They have a hard out

like a half hour ago. Okay. Oh my God. I gotta go. We gotta go. We gotta go. Listen. Quick little ditty.

What? Careful the things you say. Oh my God. Forever. Dog. This has been a Forever Dog production. Executive produced by Brett Boehm, Joe Cilio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit foreverdogpodcasts.com

and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram, at Forever Dog Team, and liking our page on Facebook. I'm Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there.

Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to

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