Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - “Piccolo & Bassoon” (w/ Betty Gilpin)

Episode Date: September 21, 2022

In the three years since our guest’s last visit, Matt and Bow’s octaves may have dropped, but the quality of their conversation with the legendary actor and now-author Betty Gilpin has NOT! The ...boys waste no time heaping (deserved) praise onto Betty and her new book “All the Women in My Brain,” which you must read and listen to as your Kantian imperative. The three talk about smoke allergies, smoke and MIRRORS, and smoking too much weed during boarding school. Special attention is paid to “The Thing,” an abstract yet undeniable phenomenon that Betty outlines perfectly and which collapses all boundaries for better or worse (i.e. choreography engendering fraternity). All the right questions are asked, including “Does God exist now that Betty has a child?” and “Will Matt sit through a horror film for an actress tour de force?” Many, of course, are answered. Stay till the end for three fab IDTSHs, or else Bowen will stab you in silks.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 This fall on Bravo. It's time to turn up. Think you've seen it all? I don't think you've been a good friend to me lately. We're friends like that, who needs enemies? You ain't seen nothing yet. Cheers to being Germanic. With the Real Housewives of Potomac.
Starting point is 00:00:11 Oh my gosh, can I take this in? It's gonna be amazing. New York City. Everyone is a gossip. No one gets a happier life. Salt Lake City. We don't wear costumes, we wear fashion. And below deck sailing out.
Starting point is 00:00:21 You broke the rules and now you're here getting upset. Watch all new seasons on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby,
Starting point is 00:01:27 an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. Heart Women's Sports. delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Oh, yeah. Las Culturistas. Ding dong! Las Culturistas calling! I mean, we offlined about excitement, jitters.
Starting point is 00:02:32 I have the jitters. Well, this is the thing. Do you remember when our guest came on our podcast over three years ago? It is wild for me to say. And I think it was one of the highlights of us even doing this. I think it's one of the most, like, superior episodes of the show. They went back and listened today,
Starting point is 00:02:55 and it really is, it's wonderful. It's also a trip to listen to our voices. Both you and I sound completely different. Yeah. But that's not the headline, but we're just, I just wanted to point out that, like. You know what it is? They're lower and it's like, did we just get older? But I know it's also just a little bit more
Starting point is 00:03:11 years. You know what I mean? Getting older is different than the years. You know what I mean? But it's true. Our voices have absolutely sunk and I feel I have to retroactively apologize to you about something. What happened? But I did listen to this episode in preparation, that episode in preparation for this one. And I got to a point where I got over this. But you know, back in the day, I used to just talk and
Starting point is 00:03:34 talk and talk and talk. And I feel like sometimes I would just absolutely talk over you. I think I was so excited this day. But I kept saying to myself, Matt, I know you're excited, but stop. It's not one of my memories of the day. It really isn't. I kept saying to myself, Matt, I know you're excited, but stop. It's not one of my memories of the day. It really isn't. I remember our guest coming just touching us. She got tactile. We all got tactile that day.
Starting point is 00:03:55 We all got tactile that day. And the fact that it was no bullshit because she was laying out this organizing principle in her life, which is maggots and magic, which is that there's this underbelly in life and in the people you meet. And then you read the book. There's a book. You read the book and you're like, oh, wait, she's committing it to the written word.
Starting point is 00:04:21 And it's, Matt, I'm going to say something. God. I think this is maybe it's recency bias. I don't know. I told our guests, I, the second I finished it, I clapped to no one in a dressing room by myself.
Starting point is 00:04:34 I clapped. And I, I feel like it's the most life affirming, uplifting memoir I've read maybe ever. It's, it's, it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful.
Starting point is 00:04:45 Understand, readers, when we say this is canon. This is something you have to go read. Every time a chapter ended, I had to close the book and cry like three single tears to myself, which is different than crying. Three single tears is different than crying. It's actually rule of culture number 48.
Starting point is 00:05:03 Three single tears is different than crying. Different than actually rule of culture number 48. Three single tears is different than crying. Different than crying. And I'm telling you, like, I'm working right now and I'll just be sitting like, and like,
Starting point is 00:05:13 just smiling and laughing out loud at the book to myself and people are like, what is, what are you reading? And I'm like, I showed them the cover
Starting point is 00:05:20 and I'm like, they're like, give me that after you're done. I'm like, yes, and now it's promised to two gays, which is fine for me because i will go out and purchase the book all the women in my brain by our guest the second i can which you also must it is capturing what it's like to be alive
Starting point is 00:05:37 period i mean period this is the other imperative the conscient k, K-A-N-T, imperative. Conscient. Conscient. This is me being annoying philosophy buff in high school. Pee pee on rock when you talk about rock. This is what you have to do. You have to download the audio book as well. Period!
Starting point is 00:06:03 Period! Period! Because to hear it being read is crazy. Because what I did, Matt, is I would read a chapter, I'd be like, damn. And then I was like, I gotta hear how Betty's reading it.
Starting point is 00:06:17 Double dipper. I gotta hear the line reading. I gotta hear the chapter reading, mind you. Very much so. Very much so. It was worth it worthwhile here's here's something to say when the person is a performer read the audiobook and it's rule of culture number 30 when the person is a performer read the audiobook i don't want to talk to anyone
Starting point is 00:06:38 who simply just read jennifer lewis's memoirs you must experience and sit in them this is no different though i haven't yet read the audiobook. I mean, listened to the audiobook. But as we prove every episode of this thing, you can read things that you listen to. So I haven't yet read the audiobook. I made no mistake. But wow. I am so
Starting point is 00:06:58 excited she's here. So much has happened since the last time we spoke to her. And let's just let's do it okay everyone welcome i keep forgetting that i'm alone in my bedroom I'm blushing as if we're all together. I'm sorry that I got tactile the last time. We're not sorry because apparently it went well, but I wish we were tactile now.
Starting point is 00:07:33 I believe that there were, I remember we were sitting in that little room where we recorded that podcast and I believe there was even moments of hand-holding. I'm just saying like, and I have to say just like, that was such a, that made such an impact on us that day, like that conversation that we had. And then like with this book, it's just such a joy to be in your world. Like it's really, really just very singular and so
Starting point is 00:07:59 smart and so funny, but so thoughtful. And I just want to compliment you right off the bat by saying something that really struck me is the care and the love with which you write all the characters in this even the ones that you clearly didn't have a great interaction with or like you drag a little bit you illustrate so beautifully drag them with the hair. Yes! Literally. But, like, you illustrate every person that has impacted you so beautifully, and I just wanted to tell you that off the bat. Thank you so much. That means so much. That means so much to me. Yeah, it was a...
Starting point is 00:08:35 We did a book event in New York and one here in LA, and there were... I did the Drew Barrymore show that day. And my sweet publicist was like, I just need you to know that the event tonight for your reading was like, I read an essay and then do a Q and a afterwards.
Starting point is 00:08:57 She was like the event tonight, the seating capacity is 140 people. And we absolutely do have 32 tickets sold but then a few more people than that came not 140 but uh and it felt like this moment um it was like the end of it's a wonderful life where everyone comes into his uh house to get like i was sitting at this table and every time i looked up from the book it was somebody else from the book that i hadn't seen in 20 years and like katie curdy from high school you know who drove in from long like it was just this this is your life mom it was really it was kind of
Starting point is 00:09:40 spectacular yeah but yeah i hope no one gets mad no people who would get mad i don't think would read the book yeah i think you mentioned that at one point you're like i'm gonna like drag with care this person they won't read this right yeah i feel like yeah that's the memoir rule if you're writing yeah and i changed all the names and tried to be super i think i was really um i wanted people to be able to plug themselves into the book even if they didn't know or care who i was or honestly know or care about the entertainment industry at all so i felt nervous about using specifics because i also didn't want to be i don't know it's the weird uh push and pull of my personality of being like which i tried to talk about in the book too of like oh gosh who am i to say but it's like i am an actress who has
Starting point is 00:10:32 written a book about herself not a cowering introvert who's like you know fixing glaciers melting like i i absolutely am a narcissist so my therapist says I shouldn't even use that word as a joke anymore because it's actually a very clinical thing. Oh, right. Wait, who said that? My therapist. No, please. Let this be a continuing arc on the show,
Starting point is 00:10:57 which is me being obsessed with my own therapy. I had to. I have let one go. So that's a positive step. Congratulations. I let one go when I used to go to her on the Upper East Side, this older lady, tiny little studio, no windows open. And it was like the fourth session.
Starting point is 00:11:19 She was like, I'm going to stop you. Are you allergic to smoke? I was like, am I allergic? No. She's like, okay okay keep going like i kept prattling on she goes to her desk and lights a cigarette in the room with the windows closed and smokes the whole thing like it was 1950 it was pretty amazing but that's like i can't come back wow yeah i refuse to return to nicotine office while i while i try to find my soul
Starting point is 00:11:43 yeah yeah share the courtesy to ask totally yeah probably the person before was like office while I try to find my soul. Yeah. Totally. Probably the person before was like, I'm allergic to smoke. Searching for some excuse. Also, I'm very curious about smoke allergy. Like, allergic to smoke? I think probably smoke...
Starting point is 00:12:01 I don't trust this person with anyone's health. We're all allergic. We're all irritated by it. Yeah. It always kills us. In a facility for care. She's like, I love to smoke. Love it. Love her.
Starting point is 00:12:12 Yeah. Okay. How are you feeling in your post-summer sort of like twilight into fall? Because I feel like you've had a very intense six months no or like plus i'm sure like a year or 18 months like i could go on i could like increase the range i feel like it's been a while i feel like i haven't really done a good job of checking in with with betty no i know and you guys do have the last three years been it's crazy i mean i i was gonna re-listen to our episode uh for this too
Starting point is 00:12:46 and then i got too nervous too and so but now i feel like i should have because i'll have no new thoughts to share but i do feel like when i came on last time i was at this point of um being out of town a lot and hashtag missing my friends and so i was obsessed with this podcast just listening to two best friends giggle with each other and i do feel like i'm there again in a different way of like you know i had a baby during um the pandemic got pregnant march 2020 and uh had my daughter mary in november of 2020 then like, so obviously as we all were, I was removed from my friends and then hyper. So because of,
Starting point is 00:13:30 you know, she was an infant and I was super freaked out. And then my only really reintroduction to being in groups of wonderful people were sets, like going back to work, which is great, but it's this weird like orwellian fake society where you know you're it's it feels not real and not totally you know it's this like
Starting point is 00:13:55 little corporate bubble of where kovid doesn't exist um so i haven't been around i've just like now i'm getting back into like holding the faces of my best friends and seeing them again up close but i've like re become re-obsessed with your podcast for that you guys are like my my friendship doula of like simulating friendship quarantined away from people which i'm sure all the readers felt that way during the pandemic for sure we feel we feel a lot closer to them like i i don't know it that was really some people say like during during that pandemic like that we filled a lot of space and like a quiet and quiet for them but also that was such a thing for us too it was like just to feel connected
Starting point is 00:14:42 to doing something and each other like it i mean I can't believe a whole pandemic I just a whole pandemic has gone on since we've last seen you and I it's it's funny that we very much had the energy last time we were like this is the beginning but like another thing that struck me like as you were talking about about the book and one of my favorite things that you describe is that sort of transience of working with people and allowing them in and having that experience, that tribal thing of we're working on a thing together and you get close and actors are very open people and you connect with people. And then all of a sudden that job ends and you go away and like i was really struck by um your um story of connecting with the older actress you did the play with and then ending and you being like wow outside of this like would we ever even look at each other and then you move on with your life but so because it's not the same as your real people because they uh contractually go.
Starting point is 00:15:46 Right, right. Yeah, yeah. That's an essay where I talk about the sort of, I call it the thing, which is like, when you work with someone, the different kinds of connections that you can have. That in a creative environment, you're sort of allowed to just bypass these normal small talk or getting to know you steps like you just skip to deeply knowing each other and it's a little dangerous too in skipping some some of those steps are there in place for a reason of like protecting yourself or not getting into a connection where you're on different pages or there's a weird power dynamic or um and i try to talk about the different types of one but yes there was one with an older lady that i did a play with where just because we shared a dressing room and the job sort of told us we did this play for like five months
Starting point is 00:16:36 together and the job kind of told us where and how to be close and that we didn't really need to do any of the legwork to water the relationship or whatever we just were able to sort of see we were kind of like um weird demented twins in our brains and it was and then when it was over we had to yeah say goodbye because but i i think i am bad at that. I really am. I am. I, I do wonder if I kind of abuse the business sometimes of like getting to hyper connect and then ghost. That's interesting. I'm trying to get better at it, but it's yeah.
Starting point is 00:17:17 Yeah. You also like have this last example in your life of that with Cosmo it's like that's how you guys met yeah I didn't know I had no idea that's how you guys met on that project and then he just kind of stuck around even though you guys sort of like it seems like maybe in the back of your minds we're trying to really get rid of each other totally yes oh really yeah I mean I bet it is that way like you're like no I'm gonna be my own person but i'm in love ah i'm gonna go out there and have experiences but i'm in love yes yeah well i think we all deal with that like okay so there's only so much time in my life and in the day and in you know which do i spend it becoming the most actualized version of my own independent
Starting point is 00:18:01 liberated self or work towards the career that i want or find a partner and put down roots like how do i do these all three things in one lifetime and i think finding cosmos so early i was like well if this is the person this is too early and like i agree it's like well i don't want you to say you agree um yeah yeah but yeah we played a brother and sister he used to be an actor we played brother and sister in a movie and there's a scene where there is a scene where he uh tickles me and at the syracuse film festival you could feel the audience be like I think they want to fuck yeah I don't like this movie anymore
Starting point is 00:18:48 yeah not that they like it to begin with well whatever is that streaming playing anywhere oh god no no no I really want to see the tickle I tried to look it up I was like okay what's Benny first imdb credit i was
Starting point is 00:19:05 so sleuthy with this book and i don't know that i don't know that it got me anywhere but um i did really get horned up when you described the moment you laid eyes on him which was that you were like someone who was so screaming like my type and then the thought in your mind was oh no i have to i have to have sex with this and i was like oh god that feeling is a it's a scary feeling especially when you're working with someone you're like oh shoot totally yes completely was it just was it just a sexy feeling or was it like a star shower was happening behind him? Like, like just tell it that just sex. That's just sex. Yes, totally.
Starting point is 00:19:47 And it was that for a while. And then all of a sudden I sort of, and I think I had, because in talking about these connections that you make with people, you really, it's hard to separate, um, how you're in love with their idea of you.
Starting point is 00:20:05 And, you know, you realize like, oh, did I ask them a question? Am I actually curious about this person? Or am I just so addicted to this feeling of they think I'm the music video version of myself? Yes. So I think it started there for me. I was like, oh, he thinks I'm the person
Starting point is 00:20:22 that I wish I was. And then, and we were having a really good time. And then I sort of got tricked into seeing who he actually was, which I was like, oh, I'm in love with this person. When falling in love disables your own narcissism of being addicted to the feeling of infatuation. Yeah, you tell a really, like, i think that in the book there's a moment that sort of pinpoints when it went from oh this is fun to oh this might be real and i just want
Starting point is 00:20:53 to say like how vividly new york the thing of the hot pipe was there's a story so i won't spoil anything but there's something that happens between between Betty and Cosmo early on in their relationship that involves an exposed hot pipe in a bathroom. And that took me back to living in New York, like in those types of apartments. The amount of exposed hot, boiling hot pipes. How is that legal? Where are our government elected officials on this? We have to get them out of there. 311, 911, collaborate. You're going to burn your ass.
Starting point is 00:21:26 Yeah. Come on. Yeah. There was, there was a, there was a line that you, well, first of all,
Starting point is 00:21:32 the book, okay, Betty, you have like such a comedian's knack for joke structure. Like the way you write is so, it's so considered in that way where you you always end on the funny part. You understand that structure so well. But the perfect example is when you mentioned you and Cosmo,
Starting point is 00:21:51 I think attempting an open relationship. Yeah. There was a paragraph break. There was a line break. And you said, this is the equivalent of Abe Lincoln and Mary Todd trying to figure out TikTok. Oh, well, it's like, well, we'll'm butchering i'm butchering the language but yeah that's what straight people doing
Starting point is 00:22:11 an open relationship is yeah i couldn't believe it that part no that like a heterosexual open relationship like that had that had to drive you nuts it i sometimes today like nowadays i'm like remember how incredible it was and cause was like you were miserable i was like i was i i mean in yes yeah new york was just too small and too you know heterosexual they should just put us down like we're trying to like keep up with the cool kids and we should just be pushed out to sea um yeah but we tried we tried it for a couple of years which i'm glad we did we i was i was very young when we were young yes yeah yeah yes and every time i'm like yeah we've been together this long i'm always want to be like and ding ding ding if there's anyone in this room who's concerned about that math for our history we had an open relationship for almost four years
Starting point is 00:23:10 don't worry we'd be fucking other people up and down in our 20s don't worry about us but that struck me when you said that new york is too small because i was like oh i guess that's i guess that's that's true for like that's true for you betty gilpin where you're like i'm not gonna fuck any of these like bankers or whatever i don't i don't know what your standards were at the time but like i'm sure like you were dealing in a small circle with a small circle we were like i'm not gonna like i'm not interested in anyone who's not like who doesn't get me on a certain level. Does that make sense?
Starting point is 00:23:47 Yeah, I guess so. Or like, it just wasn't, it's like maybe that the rules were just confusing to all the other straight men and women in New York. Like everyone else had been on board. It was like finding the people who were like,
Starting point is 00:24:03 yeah, that's cool. Um, that, that felt, and also that's cool. Um, that, that felt, and also every time it just felt like every, I mean, I write in the book about,
Starting point is 00:24:11 uh, both of us being totally caught by the other person's friends and just being like, Oh, no, that's okay. No, it's supposed to be don't ask,
Starting point is 00:24:17 don't tell. Ow, ow, ow. That's the rules of it all are what always trip me up because i like i we were talking about this last night a bunch of people i was with were like well i have a boyfriend that has to know everything before it happens and i was like see that would drive me absolutely insane as both people in the party i can understand like two things completely don't ask don't tell and afterwards you have to
Starting point is 00:24:46 say something happened but the what people are comfortable with or say they're comfortable with is so interesting because i'm like you both feel this way or who's silently making concessions here and dying someone right right right totally and i think the way that i also try to think about career stuff and in the book I try to write about how you can confuse your own inner light coming out into a room with societal success, like actualization with societal success. It can be very easy to confuse those two things of like, am I achieving my childhood dream or is the internet clapping are two different things. And I think like just along the lines of fucking who you want or whatever, it's like, we're all just trying to have a clear conscience when we're wrinkly on the
Starting point is 00:25:41 porch someday of like, I gave myself all the opportunities like i tried or i i didn't stand in my own way i think that's that's what i was most afraid of with all three of those categories actualization career and romance i just just like oh i'm i can't be it can't be my fault that I didn't try. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there was, there's, there's like a,
Starting point is 00:26:08 a beautifully short essay chapter. What would you call them? Just the terminology of it. Essay? Are they essays? Essay. Installments. Installments.
Starting point is 00:26:20 Okay. Stories. Pieces. It's you taking Cosmo to meet your, your family at Thanksgiving. I loved. Yeah. ends with i mean like it's it's this amazing story he hits it off with everybody he like makes shoes out of like under sink garbage it's crazy i'm spoiling it i'm spoiling it no it's not it's not the da v Code. The plot points aren't important. I disagree.
Starting point is 00:26:54 The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy.
Starting point is 00:27:10 What? You've told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Cheryl Swoops. WNBA champ, three-time Olympian and basketball Hall of Famer. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ,
Starting point is 00:27:25 three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom, and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst,
Starting point is 00:27:36 a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories
Starting point is 00:27:51 about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations.
Starting point is 00:28:46 I was a desperate, delusional dreamer. And the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine.
Starting point is 00:29:00 I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez.
Starting point is 00:29:44 Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba.
Starting point is 00:29:55 Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so I feel like we might have
Starting point is 00:30:31 even for the reader, for the listener, put the cart before the horse. Betty, do you want to first of all, do you want to just like talk about what the book is, like broad strokes? Sure, yeah. I wrote a book. It's kind of part personal essays about my life and then part, I guess, attempting to be comedic social commentary about being a woman and being in the entertainment industry and i think i i i sort of realized that um in a way i had kind of you know i've always felt like a my brain was a room full of women or that i was sort of cycled
Starting point is 00:31:14 selves depending on who was in front of me like the sidekick or the girlfriend or the this and i think that that's a very common feeling and i i realized that I had sort of literally commodified that feeling in being an actor and sort of literalized this allegory in my life. And I tried to write about all that and sort of making an alpha living out of all the beta characters I was playing in other people's lives and was that empowering or was that not like um so yeah that's and then also i write about my dog which was so beautiful i mean people there's dog there's dog content in this which will take you for a trip to saturn and back emotionally and thank god you really got it with the dog stuff betty really um okay thank you for sorry sorry to take a little like detour on that but i love it i i feel like i i identify with that i feel very seen by it with with me the the the i think of them less as brain women or brain
Starting point is 00:32:25 people as like sometimes in my mind i will see myself in an avatar that i'm not like oftentimes it'll be i'll just watch the movie and i clearly will have connected with a character because i see myself in life as that character but i think that's what it is for me for some reason like lately i've been really in my in my vision of myself i have a very long ponytail i don't know what that means but like i don't know what that means but i actually am her a lot um but that i think speaks to like your actual like upbringing being watching your parents do characters maybe and also like you know being in environments you spoke on the last episode that you were on about like being raised in theater i think i understand
Starting point is 00:33:10 that as like it's it's a journey to find your one person but it's fun and it's like functional as you're growing up to see yourself as many different like characters that can come in and like you know spin the plate for you when you actually don't know you know what i mean totally yes and it's so funny that you say the long ponytail because i was thinking when you were talking in the intro about apologizing about talking over like i do when i listen to your podcast i really i think a lot about um did you guys listen to peter and the wolf when you were little? Like the, it's, is it Tchaikovsky?
Starting point is 00:33:46 Like it's like a narration. Yeah. Yes. Yes. It's just the, the two instruments that you guys are. It's, it's like fun when you talk over each other.
Starting point is 00:33:57 I think about whenever you do a rule of culture and it's never in unison. It gives me so much joy because it's the two different it's like piccolo and bassoon or whatever and the long ponytail the long ponytail i always like i picture you guys sometimes as these characters of like if it's it's it's not in ellis island but it's like a city hall type place or a complaints where like you're you have to stand you're like um you know women on the brink standing in line for something and matt is in like an aaron brockovich type outfit and has cutting the line in platform shoes shaking his form and yeah you know has his finger in the face of the teller and you as the reader kind of next
Starting point is 00:34:42 to you listening and it's incredible it's a monologue and it's amazing piccolo work and then you go to leave and you look down at the door and you've just been stabbed and you look up and it's bowen wrapped in silks in kind of a for like bassoon energy of like you know one's like and when comes in yeah it's it's just the most thank you for that yeah yeah it's what i always always picture this is what i mean by lovingly illustrating the characters period period this is this is your metaphor like to the nth degree for us like you describing us in these ways like that well definitely my editor
Starting point is 00:35:32 helped me pull the metaphor back a little bit she was like oh some of this doesn't make sense like great great great great great tell me where like I talked there's a part where I talk about um um in the connections essay about like having these connections with older men who were my
Starting point is 00:35:54 senior or and like uh i mean obviously my senior but who i admired and i thought it was just this platonic sort of all that exists is the art mind melding and actually found out they were just trying to sleep with me as they were many other people and the metaphor i was like it used to be like oh he it wasn't just our text thread he had many going at the same time as if we were all so complicated like sickly turtles in one cage and he dropped in one life-saving penicillin turtle vitamin and he only needed one of us to survive my editor was like you need to cut this this is not i love that and you say in the acknowledgments like thank you for reminding me this sentence
Starting point is 00:36:43 does have to make sense because like like, you know, period. Not to overstay. Yeah, it didn't have a lot of periods, and they put them in. And they put them in. It was a sprinkling of punctuation. Okay, I'm going all over the
Starting point is 00:36:59 place with this fucking book because, like, every it just hit me at such regular intervals. Okay, but this is what I was talking about with the Thanksgiving one. You bring Cosmo home. It's going great. And then I'm going to paraphrase and I'm going to butcher it. So please correct me.
Starting point is 00:37:15 But your dad just gets everyone to close their eyes and imagine something that they have that they don't deserve. Yeah. And then you open your eyes and you see cosmo looking at you yeah back at you i was like holy shit you can't write this stuff it's like where's the movie you can't fictionalize this stuff that is right that is crazy that is so amazing yeah it was pretty incredible i mean you know i do think uh like what we're i don't know if you guys feel this way it's it is this amazing gift to be able to do what we do for a living it is confusing to like have these uh you know jumping from kind of group to group or society to society of like feeling like
Starting point is 00:38:08 it's like a high or being a drug addict and building a life where it doesn't always feel like a high, but you're taking care of yourself and making deep connections with people that last. at last i i don't know i i learned so much um really falling in love with uh him i i don't know and uh was terrifying continues to be terrifying it's still completely terrifying having a daughter is terrifying oh my god i mean like because then all of a sudden it's like wow a real thing that's outside of myself you know what i mean like i Like, I think that one of the things I love about this book is there is a tension between, you know, I'm really growing to believe in myself and growing to be the type of person who can say, I deserve this. I want this.
Starting point is 00:39:02 I'm asking for this. I'm going for this. I want this. I'm asking for this. I'm going for this. But also, you know, that tug of war that is, but there's the you, there's the other you that needs to be taken care of. And like that wants to connect with someone and put roots down, but it's just like, but like, I only have one chance for this. And it feels like that.
Starting point is 00:39:20 And there's that tension between that person. They tell you, you want to be, and almost working up to that. And then, you know, those moments where you look over at someone at a dinner table and, you know, in this moment you share that and like a soul connection that feels like almost not tenable when you want to work, work, work, work, work because you've been given the opportunity, you know yeah yes totally and i think do you guys feel this way that um you know being in this phase that we're in where uh in your career you can okay here comes a metaphor i think about yeah the part in aladdin where he has to go in down into the cave of wonder or whatever and not touch anything but the lamp. It's like, yeah. And I think when I was doing theater for 10 years to an audience of no one, you know, or whatever, there was a lot of feeling invisible and feeling like fuck like this sucks and now there's so much more opportunity to like reader i'm holding my iphone like participate in
Starting point is 00:40:31 the parade of your like in the validation or the uh there's just more opportunity to like sit and have a little more candy or or like have your brain be a little more eaten by the reception of your existence in the world. And I just am so nervous about that and superstitious of like, this part is going to end. And the things that are going to last are the things like looking up and seeing Cosmo, looking back at me. Those things, you know,
Starting point is 00:40:59 it's possible to like, fuck up. I don't know. Like it all out of the i'm like we just gotta like totally celebrate ourselves and root for ourselves but you you gotta not stay too long at the uh at your own parade because yeah your brain's gonna be eaten like like when i do a talk show i'm like you can watch it once one time like or i i know you were talking about the emmys bowen and feeling kind of gross post it just it's it's also not i don't know i'm all over the place with topics no no no it's not like a it's not a healthy it's it's super
Starting point is 00:41:41 strange yeah yeah yeah and you know what too what i try to remind myself is that you are the only person watching it this closely you know what i mean like whenever like whenever i feel like there was a moment in something that i didn't get right or like especially like now that and i will say i did identify with this book probably a lot more than i would have a few years ago and also in re-listening to our episode a few years ago i actually like it was like listening to it with new ears because i've been through a little bit more i think bowen has as well i think our just careers progressed a little bit more so now i understand when you say things like when you're talking about like the publicity of it all and the taking of pictures and the showing up to events and that part of it you do like when you get it
Starting point is 00:42:25 it's it's like demystifying in a way that could be demoralizing but that is also kind of freeing because it's just it does make you realize like you know me like slaying every second of this talk show appearance or like looking good in this picture or being invited to this event is actually silly you know what i mean it's silly to think about it could be fun i have fun doing all of it but when you see the smoke and mirrors they are so that yeah that's what i was getting from yeah yeah totally and not only are those things silly but they're deceptive and i I'm going to extend the thing of what Betty, you talk about with like the thing and like,
Starting point is 00:43:08 like everything being set up so that like the work is done for you to achieve that connection. Like, like I'll just say like for stuff that I've done and like, you know, there's, there are only so many projects that I've done so far. And so people can like use deductive reasoning, but it's like, I had are only so many projects that I've done so far and so people can like
Starting point is 00:43:25 use deductive reasoning but it's like I had like a showmance and I was like I really bought it for a second because we were making each other playlists we were really like talking as if we were like soulmates and I was like wait a minute I have to like back it up but I'm saying like all of these other
Starting point is 00:43:42 little things as part of like if you get lucky enough to work somewhat consistently at a certain exposure or like brightness, like these things, like the work gets done for you in a way. Like someone picks out your dress or your suit. Someone picks out like the talk shows you go to. Things are like done for you in such a way maybe this is what is this where you're getting is this what you're talking about it's like this is going to end like the work will not always be done for me and so therefore i have to do my own legwork in terms of like making sure my partner is okay
Starting point is 00:44:19 my child is okay yeah yeah and it's it's just easy to like things that they feel like they are registering as a 10 in the same way are, are different. Like, you know, maybe the showmance wasn't, you know, lasting, but I do think like, I mean, how did you guys meet? You know, it's, this is very lasting, you know, it's there. It's, it's almost like this. I feel it about having a daughter where I, uh, it's like this contract with the devil.
Starting point is 00:44:53 I signed of like, you've been living on a, and I feel this being an actor too. It's like, you've been living on a scale of, you thought you were living one to 10. You're, you've been living four to six you're about to
Starting point is 00:45:05 feel what tens and ones are oh and uh i like signed i was like okay i want the tens and the ones are in unbelievable and it you know it i it makes me feel that way about the world too having her i'm like simultaneously like doom scrolling about how much time we have left on earth literally and being like i mean is there god i didn't think there was like maybe god exists like i have so much hope and so much fear at the same time and i think that way you know being an actor too like, you know, I have a friend who works a cubicle job and he's like, I ate lunch in my car because I hate my coworkers. It's fine. I'm like, you're not sobbing with the people that you're not holding your hands and talking about your childhoods and making playlists.
Starting point is 00:45:57 Like, you know, I'm not that you have to be an actor to have deep connections with people. But I think it is like. It's wild how fast that happens yes yeah but this deal that you make like i'm gonna i'm gonna like play on the edge of um the safety of my ego and health and whatever in making all these connections along the way and like a little parade for myself but i'm it's like a risk every time i know what's what's so funny is like i feel it happening even now i'm working a job right now and i just so happen to have fallen in love with a couple people like up here like i genuinely love and adore them yeah
Starting point is 00:46:36 it's literally just a thing of like i don't know i i feel like now that i've done a few projects where like i too have gotten really emotionally wrapped up in a few people like i do try to set a boundary now because you know that like it's true that you'll be talking about like oh when did you lose your virginity or when was your first kiss when was your this when was your that like in a way that like yeah is unique to this experience but not knowing like what their apartment looks like or who where they're from or what their middle name it like there's just this bypass that yes yeah yeah yeah it's the best and it's fucking dangerous yeah i mean it'll break your heart it has yeah
Starting point is 00:47:17 you know like it i mean like it's and then it's weird like too because it's like you do something with someone and in the case of if it's on a platform where they're actually going to put work into people seeing it, you then get back together with them to promote it. And you're this weird other version of yourself that's not in a makeup trailer talking shit with HMU. It's someone who's in head-to-toe Todd Snyder and has someone named Jessica doing their makeup. And then you're talking to them getting ready to do this thing and it's like it's like you worked together as kids in a tree house like oh my god and then what if on this part i fall and you hit is it stupid if we do one where you hit me in the face with it and like yes he's like oh my god you were the same kind of kid i was and then when you see each other for press or whatever you're no longer in the tree house
Starting point is 00:48:03 you're like sold out adult and seeing them like that and you like that it's like oh now we're on a panel in silks and this yeah i don't want you to see me like this or me you yeah paddle and so it's it's it's like it's like they knew the 5 30 a.m makeup trailer you and now they're seeing the 7 p.m cocktail party for the thing you right right right it's like whoa but what about that thing we were you know yeah interesting yeah yeah and you're not like allies in the same thing anymore it's like back out to the wolves yeah yeah very much the wolves it's heartbreaking to even talk about, to even hear you guys describe it. Well, you can,
Starting point is 00:48:47 I don't know. That is, I guess the cool thing is like you genuinely Jen, I always do this thing where I say genuinely instead of generally, and I'm working on it, but you genuinely and generally go back each and every year to like a cast, which I think so cool. And honestly, Betty, year to like a cast which is i think so cool and honestly betty another thing i'm thinking of is
Starting point is 00:49:07 like the fact that there was a season four of glow that was gonna happen in like a community of actors that i know you love so much and then all of a sudden they just say never mind stop and also we're not going back like that didn't get to have like a an ending you know like yeah yeah and there are two episodes that exist like we shot two yeah so crazy no i know it was it was painful it's so strange i watched a few episodes of it again today just because i in listening to the episode i remembered how much i loved it and i did watch season two episode four which is my girl's showcase. And I just loved it. What a great show. What a shame we didn't get to see more.
Starting point is 00:49:48 What a shame. Oh, you want to know which scene I went back and watched, Matt? Was when Alison Brie's character comes back from like, just that rapey hotel room with the network exec. Yes.
Starting point is 00:50:01 And then Debbie and then Betty's character is like, there's a line reading. And this is is and hearing and seeing betty describe herself as making too many faces and like that being like a bad thing i'm like no because there's a line reading where um allison goes so i went to his head so like she's like so yeah he like made a pass at me and then betty does a line reading of it's three words, three words. Okay.
Starting point is 00:50:28 There's like 10 faces where she goes, what did you do? Like, it's just, it's just the words. What did you do? And then Alison goes, I left. And then Betty goes,
Starting point is 00:50:38 Debbie goes, you left. Like, it's just, it's, it's these, it's these, it's these crazy, not crazy. It's just these like amazingly dense. And it's just, it's these crazy, not crazy.
Starting point is 00:50:46 It's just these like amazingly dense. And it's in the writing. It's in the fucking book. It's like, it's so dense, Betty. Like everything you give out is just so rich. It's such a rich cake of a thing. I mean, you're so good. You're such a monster.
Starting point is 00:51:04 You're such an enormous well of talent. The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute.
Starting point is 00:51:26 She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy. What? You told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian,
Starting point is 00:51:47 and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom, and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the we go through.
Starting point is 00:52:19 Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Starting point is 00:52:37 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again, and we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude,
Starting point is 00:52:55 you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them. And we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of types of dudes are there, Gronk? We got studs, wizards.
Starting point is 00:53:11 We got freaks. Or dudes dude. We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dude's dude?
Starting point is 00:53:27 We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had.
Starting point is 00:53:48 We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image and huge life transformations. I was a desperate, delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble.
Starting point is 00:54:04 I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life.
Starting point is 00:54:19 I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I want to tell you, so we haven't seen you since then. I believe I like, you know, reached out and was emphatic, but like, I never watched movies like The Hunt because I really can't like it. I don't like it. But when I tell you, I gripped the sides of my sofa and like the parts that I could handle, I sat on the sofa and watched. And then I ran to the back. Jared will
Starting point is 00:55:04 tell you, I ran to the back of the living room and watched and then i ran to the back jared will tell you i ran to the back of the living room and watched like peeking up from the kitchen but i did watch the whole thing but i was literally on my feet running around screaming because it scared me so much but you ate the hunt up oh my god you were so brilliant and all the readers, if you haven't watched The Hunt, you can get it. I think it's on Netflix. Is it on Netflix? I think so. Wonderful town. And it's on Prime Video Free
Starting point is 00:55:34 with ads. If you want that. Great, meant to be watched with ads. Absolutely. Your chapter about The Hunt is also incredible. I didn't know all that was going on but yeah what just checking in now like the hunt of it all like being at the center of that and then also feeling like it just was something that that then passed like that had
Starting point is 00:56:01 to feel so surreal it's great i'm sure you guys have had your versions of it of like okay basically the cliff's notes version is i was doing um a dog's purpose 2 in winnipeg you know we all know no need to discuss that ham on your shoulder yes turkey turkey slices yeah yeah oh my god that was so dark um and being like okay this is this is which whatever no no disrespect to that that art form but i was like you know maybe i'm now and i was playing the mom of a she was 25 years old and i was 32 in the dog movie where i was a drunk mom screaming at beagles um i can't believe and i i made this hail mary audition tape for the lead in this movie and they were like oh you know the reason that we want an unknown i love when they say an unknown to your face you're like
Starting point is 00:56:56 you're a dementor or something yeah um uh because everybody dies at the beginning. We'll just put famous people in those roles, and then you'll be like the secret surprise lead. And I fought really hard for the job, got the job. Glow wasn't going to let me out. And so I spent months writing letters to fight for keeping the job and then whatever. And then did the job, loved the job, and then it was misrepresented on the internet, I would say. Like, the trailer made it seem like it wasn't a satire, whatever. The dude who was the president one time tweeted about it, and I got thousands of death threats. And fox news got my cell phone number and my address
Starting point is 00:57:48 and it was like this weird thing of and then universal pulled the movie and canceled it and it was this uh and it was like my favorite thing i'd ever done just sort of stupidly creatively i was like but my opus is locked in there like i know and it was sort of learning the lesson of does it does it matter if the if the world like if the world sees it happen like if it happened it happened right right and um and then you know it came out eventually and no one remembered it at all that is it's so crazy when the internet shits itself over you in a negative way and then yeah just the tides of the internet wash it away and the only person left remembering it is you
Starting point is 00:58:31 yeah oh yeah you have a line in the book here like um so it's i forget what the first half is but it's like you know controversy like with controversy the internet goes crazy with redemption it's like redemption is silent redemption is quiet yes i was like damn that that is that is sort of the that is sort of like the the dynamic profile of that kind of thing where it's like right there's no release or maybe the release is like the the sort of blowout anger of it all like the collective like this the outrage and then like there's no there's no balancing of that ledger like in people's minds which is kind of awful but i mean it came out march 13th i remember 2020 i remember what it was it was like my first lockdown sit down watch i remember like i watched gray the original. I was like, let me just get a feel for what
Starting point is 00:59:25 being in a house is like. And then I remember watching The Hunt and I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever forget. Ever forget. Before you shoot Amy Madigan in the face. Cigarettes in Arkansas only cost
Starting point is 00:59:44 six bucks. You fucked up, bitch! And then you kill a Madigan. You kill her. Can I ask, just like, when you're doing a movie like that, that is so gory, like, how much of that is practical, and are you freaking out? Or did you sort of,
Starting point is 00:59:59 because you were in the zone, you went away? Because that was a really wild movie yeah yeah it was wild it was not a lot of practical blood at all okay the i mean the fight stuff was weirdly glow felt more like at the end of the day your body is like hey what do we do for a living that was crazy um more just i mean i trained a lot for the hunt but glow was it just felt like you were in a car accident over and over and over and over again um and you realize that stunt people like even though they're they're like olympians or whatever but their job is to hurt themselves it's not like you find a way to
Starting point is 01:00:45 secretly not hurt yourself it hurts so much and it gets harder and harder every passing year yeah because you just have to keep doing it like that's never not going to be a part of the show glow yes right yeah but i will say there is a scene at the end of the hunt which is like it rivals Beyonce and Ali Larder as the greatest as greatest face off in the history of film I believe I mean Hilary Swank and Betty Gilpin absolutely kill each
Starting point is 01:01:16 other it's so good I'm so sorry that you never have to do that again for me Matt to watch a movie that you don't enjoy like or or the genre you get you get scared and then do you keep getting scared like what happens is like i well i'm just very sensitive to like shocking violence but the thing is about the hunt is it so gets you ready for that tone literal seconds into the movie which
Starting point is 01:01:44 i mean i don't think I'm spoiling anything but like literally everyone dies and pretty much the beginning and then like Betty is full on the lead so like just to see Emma Roberts' head get blown off I was just like oh my god and I screamed and then
Starting point is 01:02:00 like honestly it was like it was like then like the Amy Madigan part did happen and I was like alright I guess I'm just living in this world. Because with the Amy Madigan part, you're like, oh, this is a, this is going to be a joy ride. This is going to be like, or not a joy ride, but it's going to be fun for us. Yes. And also I will put myself through pain for an actress tour divorce. You know what I mean?
Starting point is 01:02:20 Like for an actress tour divorce, I will suffer great great harrowing inconvenience like even like I was thinking about watching Black Swan again the other day and I was like oh remember that part where when a writer stares herself in the face so then she turns into Natalie Portman I'm like yeah I can put myself through that for an actress tour de force again
Starting point is 01:02:39 for sure yeah what about did you want for an actress tour de force the Tony Collette movie no I won't do that. Hereditary? And I won't watch Midsommar either. Really? I can't do it. No! Ari Aster's furious. Probably.
Starting point is 01:02:55 I think you could do Midsommar. I don't like scary movies. I think so. I've heard that Midsommar is like beyond the pale. I think Hereditary Matt should see I think Matt should see Hereditary for sure because it's like camp
Starting point is 01:03:13 yeah I think it is the moment where things get bad I've heard about it's unforgettable like come off it's not unforgettable little mama had come off it's not even when the head
Starting point is 01:03:28 come off it's when Tony discovers the next morning oh yeah yeah yeah or when she's up in the corner I remember being in the audience Ryder Doyle and I saw it together in West Hollywood and someone went
Starting point is 01:03:43 and because it's the part where someone's in the corner of the screen like this and no people from her saying that noise were like what is it I can't do it I wish it was a thing
Starting point is 01:04:00 that I like was like yeah it'll be so fun come on guys and like you go and like with half of your girlfriends and sit there and order pizza and have popcorn and you hide behind the popcorn bucket and you throw it at each other. So fucking cute night at the movies and it's scary. I can't. I freak out. I'm
Starting point is 01:04:16 up screaming and my shoulders go to my head and I'm in physical pain. I wake up really sore the next day. I understand. Have you seen Barbarian yet, Betty? No. I really want to see it. It's supposed to be amazing.
Starting point is 01:04:30 It's supposed to be great. It's an Airbnb horror movie. Oh. I mean, I don't like horror either. Yeah, she doesn't like it. Oh, that's right. I am realizing if there's a female tour de force, I do. I do.
Starting point is 01:04:42 I do. Yes. I believe Barbarian is a female tour de force. Great. That I do. I do. Yes. I believe Barbarian has a female tour de force. Great. That's all I'll say. Anyway, that's, yeah, that's all. I was going to bring up the palace because I feel like this is a very pertinent thing to, not to get like exclusively show busy in this episode, but I feel like it's, it
Starting point is 01:05:00 relates to like everything else we've talked about because i feel like um you write about how you conceive of this palace in showbiz where like they let you in like you know you know if you if you whatever like make all the right choices or whatever if things line up for you in the right ways then you like touch the moon right like that you're you are sort of breathing verified air you're like yeah kind of with all these other people who are incredible um but i feel like with the way that like the business works in the way and like the work that is required of let's just say actors who like have to simulate all of these relationships and intimacies and all these things like i don't know i feel like if you if you're in the palace for too long then that's also like destructive then that's all that is also something that like is irreversible and like you're stuck
Starting point is 01:05:57 you're you're you're imprisoned in the palace for the rest of your life we were talking about this idea of the palace which is like for everyone that's that's listening that hasn't yet read the book which is this idea of like the fancy level of hollywood which is like the parties and the nominations of it all and the award shows and like the actual attention that comes with is you know quote-unquote succeeding in the entertainment industry as an actor where it looks like they're projecting you back out to the world as like a shiny thing you know what i mean like that's the concept and this idea that like does it exist at all like the feeling is like you're almost there one more thing and you'll be there right around the corner one more thing like uh one more financial bracket or one more thing on
Starting point is 01:06:41 your imdb page and you'll be let in and then once you think you're being let in they're like like through that door and up those stairs um you know i think that it's been a uh particularly strange you know being an actress there are just more visual smoke and mirrors Opportunities to Just look different from how you Woke up in the morning in terms of like Being on a talk show or being on a red carpet or something Like there's just more
Starting point is 01:07:14 Or actors Sort of become this Like being on set like you're a bulletin Board for every other department's work To post on it's not because you're a very special marie antoinette pretty pretty princess who deserves attention it's like you just become the bulletin board for more people's art or work like lighting and makeup and costume and um and that can sort of weirdly bleed into your life outside of set that you become this, uh,
Starting point is 01:07:48 I don't know, like, um, like a heightened version of yourself made by a bunch of other people. Uh, yes. Which feels like I like my face better when a professional artist has done it up and,
Starting point is 01:08:04 and my hair and my clothes. And I, you know, I've never been, I, it's like, I, I almost,
Starting point is 01:08:11 uh, I feel like some of my creative window into being an actor is cause I wasn't good at that stuff. Cause I was really like that girl's best friend, uh, carrying her books. And now I'm like cosplaying as her because i've presented my notes on her as an actor and now but i'm like if i become her do am i stop will i stop the ability to play her
Starting point is 01:08:34 yeah i don't know it's terrifying it's like that thing of just you're being too like it's the fear of being too aware of yourself. Yeah. And, and like, yeah, there, there does seem to be like, I remember in our last episode with you, like you talked about being in LA and like some people are just after this for maybe a different reason than you are. You're someone who actually enjoys being these people and showing your work because of your, you know,
Starting point is 01:08:59 time observing them and like what you get to channel through them. But then all of a sudden they do push you out and they're like, this part is also important. Pay, pay six grand for a publicist you know what i mean right right and it's like right and then you're like wait this doesn't track but it better because that means more of this the stuff that you like right right so they tell you yeah you know what you know so it becomes this like very weird like system you participate in and one of my favorite things you say in the book which is something i didn't realize until we went to the critics choice awards when bone was nominated is the little line that you get in
Starting point is 01:09:36 to get to the red carpet so me this is like something i'm observing like about the reality of the situation i thought when i was a little kid watching award shows that's like oh they pull up in the limousine and there they've arrived to the red carpet and look at them take to the red carpet and people are taking photos of them they look stunning as people shout their name they move to be interviewed by you know ryan seacrest or ryan seacrest type and they go in have a full meal and then win or gracefully lose the award. They drink on the rest of their night and marry. They get a full night's sleep and continue working as happy actors. Meanwhile,
Starting point is 01:10:15 it's like you pull up to the red carpet and then you do, you get on a little line that actually can be a very big line of people waiting to get their photos taken and their publicist. And it's just so interesting because it is this thing. It like oh two two people in front of me there's juliet lewis also standing staring at nothing and it's just this like weird little line like a dunder mifflin magic mountain line of like this corporate roller coat you're like what and and you've been spending two hours getting yourself so hyped up of like, this is my night. Like this is the whole world has gathered to see me in this night. And then you realize how low on the totem pole you are and how, yeah, it's just corporate prom.
Starting point is 01:10:56 Yeah. theory on top of this theory is that like the people on the top floor of the palace the people who have like been there for a very long time are people of high esteem and honor are not even that thrilled to be there themselves and I know that that's not a new idea and like a lot of this part of
Starting point is 01:11:20 the business is demystified to everybody now but like or has been for a long time I just feel like you're you're everyone is right to disengage from this as soon as possible as soon as they understand what's going on turn their way
Starting point is 01:11:36 yes yeah completely you know what's funny is like I remember standing in that line and thinking it's that crazy feeling of like you do you get all excited and then you get in the line and i was with bowen so it's like it's like oh wow like now we all have to stand here and wait to get on this carpet and have that thing go on in our head of like do people even want to see me here i'm not going out there it's insane that i'm going out there look at the people around me they're actually like people that people know I'm not doing this.
Starting point is 01:12:06 And so there was like a harebrained idea that I would go out and take a picture with Bowen. I turned to Bowen and I was like, look, these people don't want to see me. I'm getting the fuck out of here. And he was like, I got God. I wish I could go with you. And I was like, yeah, well, see ya. So I went in and had a drink and saw sort of like for some reason i was in there and i saw sort of the upper echelon of the palace and when i tell you will smith and jada pinkett smith walked right in front
Starting point is 01:12:30 of me and they glided past me wordlessly i just breathed you look incredible to jada as she goes by and she just looked and sort of gave me eye contact and a slight smile and i thought wow the peak of hollywood glamour the palace the palace the king and the queen weeks later he would slap a man on television right right so there is a storm underneath yeah but don't you feel like at those things seeing people even though it's still the palace and gross seeing people who you have made those connections with love it it's like oh there is yeah it's it's you can find little pockets of treehouse in the palace but and i do think those are it is different even though they're fleeting and strange it is still really meaningful i mean we made
Starting point is 01:13:19 friends that night like we we uh like i mean the connections is not the award shows yes yes yes yes it's sometimes funny though who those people are too like you know we were sitting at the table and i literally looked across the room and molly shannon was over there and i couldn't run bowen over to molly shannon quick enough like to think of molly shannon being that person in a room that you feel safe with let's yeah right right yes yeah yeah and dar see mark maron i immediately start sobbing i never thought that it would be that way isn't that funny yeah the haven people like the haven people are always surprising do you guys find in in these three years where your careers have soared. Do you find it, like, especially comedy-wise, do you find that success has made your job easier
Starting point is 01:14:10 of, like, going on stage and doing your, or are you more in your head? Or are you more like, I have the, I know I have the room so I can do the jokes I want. Bowen, you go first. Okay, my whole Emmys breakdown last week, which thank you everybody for listening to
Starting point is 01:14:30 that. It was very self-indulgent that I would even bring it up on the podcast, but that's an example of it not getting easier. Of me second-guessing this very basic thing that I thought I was good at, that I am expected to do.
Starting point is 01:14:45 Right. Um, and just being like, and having this full dysphoria with it being like, I don't, I don't. And I say dysphoria as in like other people have been like, no,
Starting point is 01:14:57 like you, I don't know why you think that. And I guess I'm trying to like move past it by calling it that, but I think that it has it has it was literally the fact that i had a suit that i had a tux on and that my hair was that my makeup person was late and so therefore i was like studying examining my face and my hair and being like i don't look right and it's and it has nothing to do with the capital tw work you know like it has nothing to do with that.
Starting point is 01:15:25 And that's what I think I'm the most frustrated about is that I'm like, I'm hung up on something that I shouldn't even be hung up on. But therefore, like on a meta level, that is the frustrating thing about being in a place like that.
Starting point is 01:15:38 And then, I don't know, that's, that's, I'm still kind of scattered about it. Matt, what about you? Well, for me, it's similar because I also find myself distracted sometimes, but I think I do it to myself. And just like thinking about the actual work itself, like I feel so grateful to have these opportunities that I have. Like it was always my dream to book a show. Like, I love that for you. Like, it was always my
Starting point is 01:16:03 like dream to be able to do a movie with my friends and stuff and like you know it was my dream to be able to one day like say I have a comedy special and now that I have these opportunities like I get a little in my own way when I think about fucking them up so I guess like that's where what it is for me is it's just like yes of course I have all the same, um, things around, you know, the star machine of it all. You know what I mean? I look at it and I'm like, sometimes I look at my own Instagram and I'm like, does it look like a funny person's Instagram? Or does it look like someone who's posted a lot of pictures of himself? So I have a lot of that.
Starting point is 01:16:38 And I definitely think that because it was my first experience in that machine, like that I've learned from it. And, and you know next time i'll be able to like you know keep the um beast alive a little bit more than just like you know picture um but i also think at work and at my job like i've had other act like jennifer lewis called me after we wrapped the show and had to come out. And she said, I couldn't tell you this while we were shooting, but I want to tell you now you're too hard on yourself. And just hearing it from someone like her who really apparently watched and really apparently cared.
Starting point is 01:17:14 I was just like, you know what? Now I think I'm actually ready to hear that and be, go a little bit easier on myself because I think it's harder when you know, you can do it. And I say this, not as someone with like, not in an arrogant way,
Starting point is 01:17:27 but I know I've worked hard and I know I'm talented. And so I just don't want to mess up the opportunities. And so that gets more difficult when the opportunities are definitely going to be seen. And when you are standing with people you really respect and want to impress, we're not in basements anymore um performing to two people it's like you know these are real opportunities to show yourself and what you have to remind
Starting point is 01:17:52 yourself is that you're only going to access the maximum of that opportunity by just letting yourself be because yeah you are why you're there yeah and almost like i find it so interesting um honestly watching uh certain people in old episodes of snl before they were like stars of snl at like like i forget who it was like kristen wigg or will ferrell or something like their first skits they're not getting huge laughs no because they don't like have the room already like like that people aren't already like oh what's he gonna say what's he gonna say oh my god i knew it was gonna be amazing like winning people over from zero it's it takes a different set of tools and i think like probably in high school that's what we all did like i remember
Starting point is 01:18:42 saying a joke under my breath no one laughing and then the jock next to me saying it louder and getting a huge laugh and being like fuck off man you just have the thing that i can't get like that like the social pole of like the cafeteria being like whatever you do we already are on board with you yeah and so i wonder i wonder if you listening back to yourself from three years ago if it's like that shift of like what's been added is you have the room now and there's there's a difference between like letting your brain get drunk on your follower count or being at the palace and over serving yourself or and like the other thing is shedding a skin that's not serving you anymore of like you don't need the self-hate to or being hard on yourself to like get the joke in sideways
Starting point is 01:19:34 because like you're at a different fucking table now and it's so finding a way to still be able to sleep at night and be like i'm always gonna hate to hate myself. I'm always going to be hard on myself. I'm always going to come and think sideways. Maybe my voice has dropped for a good reason. Oh my God. That's really interesting. I feel like this whole episode has been me quoting your own book back at you.
Starting point is 01:20:00 I did write down one line which was so resonant and very important and it's exactly what you're saying but you were like my favorite kind of work is the weird silly work that like um people make when um they're uninhibited and that work never gets made if the loudest voice in your head is maybe i should shut up maybe i should. Right. I've been living with that voice for like the past year, I think. Yeah. I think this last season on SNL,
Starting point is 01:20:32 I had a great season. I was so lucky to do everything I did. But I think maybe something happened after that second season that I had where I was like, this was, wow. I never expected these things to happen to me.
Starting point is 01:20:49 Um, and it felt like I was really like earning, earning like whatever, like my keep. Cause I was still like young and scrappy and starting out. And it was like, you know, COVID shows where we only had like a half full house.
Starting point is 01:21:02 And I was like, I really gotta, I really gotta like go for it. And then maybe I was like resting on my laurels a little bit this this last year but i feel like there was that also left room for that voice to like creep in and be like you should not do that thing like you probably shouldn't and i think this this just applies to like my whole like comedic output in general like i haven't been on stage i haven't um like in front of like a you know like like as myself like in like you know in front of an audience really and um i'm i'm really excited to change that soon with stuff and uh yeah yeah anyway but but i'm but
Starting point is 01:21:38 but that but thank you for putting in those terms betty but you're also such a surgeon in terms of the way you your comedy is so it's so exact in the way that you've observed all walks of life and i think that that probably it's one of the myriad of reasons why you're so brilliant but also maybe a reason that like you can't turn that off like if you're if you're not taking apart the syllables of um an alexis nyer's phone call it's like that it's turned onto your own self of like if i don't have an engine going forward into something maybe it turns which i mean we all have that version of like the wheel gets put on its side and it's like a tunnel downward. And now it's actually dark. Wow. But I'm so much, as an audience member, I'm so much more interested in your kind of comedy and art.
Starting point is 01:22:34 As opposed to like, I feel like some comedians are just, it's like comfort porn. Like you're watching someone, like I feel like that's why Louis why louis ck was like you're just watching someone be so calm like no difference between if they were talking to their best friend in their kitchen or you and it's like right oh wow how interesting to see someone be just so inherently themselves but there's a point where i don't know that gets a little stale it's weird that we do any of the things we do. And there's nothing that special or like, I don't know. There's nothing that exceptional about this work,
Starting point is 01:23:13 except that you as an individual have to negotiate your own, let's just say narcissism. I know it's a clinical term, but like all of the offerings and the spoils that like the industry can give you i think that's like yeah that's that's what we're all talking about but another element of it that you do say in the book is that a lot of it is fun you know what i mean like it's fun i mean here's the thing about cinderella She wasn't the sad emoji leaving the ball. That's not the emoji she was.
Starting point is 01:23:51 She was this emoji. And describe for the readers, Bo. Oh, she was that side-eye, like, smirk. Side-eye smirk. So she was a little bit side-eye smirk. She was a little bit... A devil horn, yeah. And she was also a little bit... A smirked. She was a little bit a devil horn. Yeah. And she was also a little bit a little
Starting point is 01:24:07 what is, oh, face melting. Face melting. I think her face was melted because there had been so much magic. Like, I didn't know that was possible. Jesus Christ, literally. And then also a little bit horny for the sorry, but prince. Prince. And then definitely smirking
Starting point is 01:24:23 at the possibilities of a new world and i think that is the thing about going to these things because you do leave a little bit like drunk and giddy and you're like oh my god i talked to xyz and like and you buzz a little bit because you get a glimpse into that horny little world and then which it is a horny little world yeah yeah and which i do love about it but like um and then you giggle away and you're like oh my god like i got to like look into the fishbowl but it's so different and also you know too like coming up as a little kid who like did read magazines like i remember reading us weekly and laughing my ass off to the fashion police oh my
Starting point is 01:25:02 god every week but yeah it like wanting to know what everyone was up to you know what i mean like these people that i saw doing something i wanted to do what were they up to what were they like what was going on in their lives and then you get in the fishbowl and you're like oh these are just people with varying degrees of like you know whatever's going on yeah and another thing about the stylist of it all and like the pr of it all is i remember like reading those Us Weekly like fashion police things. And if people wore a bad outfit and were like clocked for wearing a bad outfit, I remember me as a little kid used to think, yeah, they're so stupid. Like, they're so stupid.
Starting point is 01:25:37 They showed up looking ugly. And now it's just like, no, any of us with a stylist could show up looking bad at any time. I never have. Love my people. But it could happen to the best, smartest, most talented individuals. And it has. But I remember thinking, as a little snarky kid who probably would be on Reddit these days. A little shudder to think.
Starting point is 01:25:58 Yeah, what an idiot Laura Flynn Boyle is. As if they stowed it themselves. Laura Flynn Boyle. What a fool. T-Boz from tlc really sucks because she showed up and i didn't like her garment like
Starting point is 01:26:13 oh brother i can't wait to see you dancing in this movie or show what it hasn't been it's a little show but it's an episode where we do do choreography and I have been doing it in heels, which I have to say it sucks.
Starting point is 01:26:31 Wow. Ginger Rogers. Oh yeah, I know. Choreo. The choreo of it all. I find choreography to be excruciatingly hard. I don't, that part of my brain doesn't exist. It's also just like when,
Starting point is 01:26:48 well, you know, when you ever watch choreographers talk to each other and they start to talk in like numbers and it's like on the two and the three. And I think the three should actually become twos or should they stay fours? No, let's have,
Starting point is 01:26:58 so let's have, um, let's have Matt still be two. And then we're, everyone else is going to be one. No, that doesn't make sense. Matt still be a four. And I'm like, literally, my brain is soup.
Starting point is 01:27:08 My brain is the melting emoji and I'm like, Queen, I don't know what you said and I don't know what it is. Are you singing in it? Not in this. No. I can't say too much. Because I actually sent an email
Starting point is 01:27:24 and I was like, don't you dare tell me when you i actually sent the email i was like don't like don't you dare tell me when you're on this show i was like okay but it doesn't matter i think it was just like netflix being like they know your platform yeah no but i'm i'm dancing your reader reach when's the last time you did choreography god the last time i did choreography for that Apple show roar episode, and we did a dance in the street at the end. And I just like in, in high school, I would have semi leads in musicals and always the dance teacher would be
Starting point is 01:27:58 like, and then we know that you take an eight count back to the back of the stage. And we have the dancers come and cover you because you are not a mover. And you can step touch in the back. Yeah, exactly. Off the beat. That's okay.
Starting point is 01:28:13 It's really, it's a whole thing. Bowen, do you have to do it a lot for SNL? He learns little routines. Little routines, but they'll bring in a choreographer who will have to choreograph the easiest thing
Starting point is 01:28:29 for everyone to do. Otherwise, we all kind of get angry. Wait. Can I ask you about this new Damon Lindelof show you're in? I think you guys are going to really love this show. I love Damon. You're talking
Starting point is 01:28:46 to a lost girl. Damon. Oh, yes. I also cannot say too much, but I am a nun, and I am it's yeah, it's I think that
Starting point is 01:29:01 it might be a show that readers and their non-reader siblings could enjoy together. Maybe. It's going to bring together the world. I can't tell what sect of people we're going to make upset, but someone might get upset. Someone's going to get upset because you're a nun sort of up to no good. I'm not. I don't know.
Starting point is 01:29:23 I don't know. You can say. Oh my God. It's so chic to not be able to say. To be on a Damon Lindelof show and not be able to say, Bowen, that is the dream. About a Damon Lindelof project. I texted him. Sorry, God. I can't believe you have his number.
Starting point is 01:29:37 Because he, this is the nicest man. He texts me every week after a show, after SNL, he goes, Bowen, that was amazing! Anyway, I texted upon myself to text him this week. I was like, I just finished Betty's book.
Starting point is 01:29:54 You must read it if you haven't. Isn't she the best? And then he goes, I love her to death. It really sucks that she can write circles around me and still be a brilliant actress. Oh my god, Damien. I mean, it's like It really sucks that she can write circles around me and still be a brilliant actress. Oh, my God.
Starting point is 01:30:10 I mean, it's like you are the best actor. And also, like, this is so good. Like, you are so talented. I know you guys are very busy. To give hours-long homework is a crime. No. Not even. It was literally not homework because it genuinely genuinely like enriched every i loved reading every page of it i mean it's so funny and it's so good
Starting point is 01:30:31 i just like i mean i can't say enough like and also like it must have been really fucking hard yeah it was uh well i don't know i i wrote it right after mary was born and i think i was still on just adrenaline literally from childbirth and i wrote it pretty fast it was i think writing it in quarantine was the only way that it could have like yeah i think i was just so self-conscious about not being like i had such who cares that who cares shut up energy around writing in particular that um it really felt like it i wrote it when we when we thought the world was over wasn't like there were no more like we were going to be inside forever and so i was like one last shout to the wave of the tsunami before it crashes on all of us here's the book
Starting point is 01:31:25 and then the tsunami dissipated and I was like ah shouts will be beamed outward as someone who dreams of doing this one day I was so blown away and inspired by it
Starting point is 01:31:44 and I will say again like the character of you is so well drawn because you are on every page and your voice is so clear and like you really you're you are such a narrator of life in this but what really comes through for me are all the characters like for example the character of max, you know what I mean? That person, that person that just like, like really gets, you know what I'm saying? Like those people you meet along the way, they're all so vivid. And so that would be like, I think the thing I walk away from this, like really, really feeling like I learned something about and like really inspired by was just the way in which i feel like even when you reference someone later on like oh i feel like that they were my old friend they're like oh my god yeah when that happened in our life that was
Starting point is 01:32:34 that was tough of it all don't bring the max of it all up to me you know oh thank you oh my god i have like 20 copies of the book that the publisher sent me to like quote give out to friends and it's just sitting in my car because i'm like the thought of walking up to someone that i'm like hey here's my book yeah i'm i i and i leave i'm filming in la for the next two weeks and then leave and i'm not bringing the book i'm like i'm just gonna literally leave it on the side of the road, I think, and have it be, like, a little surprise for whoever.
Starting point is 01:33:09 Yeah, I don't know what to do. That's a beautiful plan. It might be time, Beau. It might be time. Oh, but very quickly, I want to mention one last thing in the book, which really stayed with me, which was you talking about, like, going to, like, a Spanish olive oil factory with your
Starting point is 01:33:25 family and like your dad so intently having to listen to this man like give a terrible tour about the place yeah and he's and then your dad is like it's like doing a matinee love which is like this this person is like burying their their soul at a group of people. Yeah, the Olive Oil Factory had been in his family for generations, and we were stopping off on this tour, and, you know, all these fanny pack chicken nugget people that we were, that we did not want to listen to a monologue about olive oil
Starting point is 01:33:58 and the history of the olive. And my dad was like, we have to listen to every syllable with our hands over our hearts, because we all know all know that feeling of like thinking that you have the audience in the palm of your hand and looking up and seeing the front row looking at their cell phone or it's or or people are like i have to pee i have to i have to go but there's something about like humanity that is so like distilled in that idea to me that i'm like, I was like, fuck, this is crazy. And I think that's what makes those connections actually important and meaningful and not just bullshit of those fleeting moments of like, I see you, I see you, I see you. Even if it's only one
Starting point is 01:34:39 part of you, it's the part that you thought that no one would see so seeing someone you know wave to it like it's the most obvious part of you it it is it is meaningful and more meaningful than jada pinkett smith gliding by yeah on the way to ruin and also just like oh my god this the the end of the chapter where you read the letter that you had gotten from the kid that you did the play with. Just the end of that, I had to put it down and walk around after that. Because that just like, I don't know, everyone. Like, we can not say enough. We're just spoiling the whole book.
Starting point is 01:35:15 You must read it. You must read it. I do read. And actually, one of the chapters inspired, and I don't think so, honey. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm excited. This fall on Bravo. It's time to turn up.
Starting point is 01:35:34 Think you've seen it all? I don't think you've been a good friend to me lately. We're friends like that. Who needs enemies? You ain't seen nothing yet. Cheers to being Germanic. With the Real Housewives of Potomac. Oh, my gosh.
Starting point is 01:35:44 Can I take this in? It's going to be amazing. New York City. Everyone is a gossip. With the Real Housewives of Potomac. Oh my gosh, can I take this in? It's going to be amazing. New York City. Everyone is a gossip. No one gets a happier life. Salt Lake City. We don't wear pastels, we wear fashion. And below deck sailing.
Starting point is 01:35:53 You broke the rules and now you're here getting upset. Watch all new seasons on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. Let's have a real good time. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez.
Starting point is 01:36:21 Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba.
Starting point is 01:36:37 Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 01:37:04 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations. mind, I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes.
Starting point is 01:38:13 I'm a dude. You're a dude. And Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past. And we're just going to sit here and talk about them and we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of types of dudes are there Gronk? We got studs, wizards
Starting point is 01:38:30 we got freaks or dudes dude we got dogs. Dogs! We'll break down their games, we'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dude's dude?
Starting point is 01:38:46 We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So this is Why I Don't Think It's Funny. It's our one-minute segment that we do on Lost Culture, which is sort of an abbreviation for the podcast title, lost culture.
Starting point is 01:39:08 It's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. And we do 60 second rants on things that we don't know. No, no, no, no. Um, to quote destiny's child about this is Matt Rogers.
Starting point is 01:39:19 I don't think so. Honey, as time starts now, I don't think so. Honey, boarding school. Don't send a kid there because no, I don't like any element of it. And I will say this.
Starting point is 01:39:31 I feel like I understand my boarding school friends a lot better now. Oh, this to me feels like you just never get a moment of quiet and alone to yourself. Like because you go to school with the people that you then inhabit inhabit rooms with i understand we make close connections but mama it's called boundaries and i don't think so honey boarding school being a place where boundaries thrive it seems like you can never escape each other and yourself pause for a moment of importance so you and it's so important that you get some space and at a boarding school you get and yourself pause for a moment of importance. And it's so important that you get some space. And at a boarding school, you get no space.
Starting point is 01:40:13 Also, not for nothing, but I need to see my mom. Like, that would have been the part that really broke me in half. Five seconds. I don't think so. Honey, boarding school, Gus Hickey, my friend, I feel like I understand you better. You went to the school? Oh, my God. And that's one minute.
Starting point is 01:40:23 Gus went to the school? Yeah, he was a freshman when I was a senior oh my god oh i knew this and i always knew i always knew he had like that he went to boarding school and then hearing about the school i was like i have to text my friend i do think gus was a day student maybe oh what does that mean you only go for the day is that is it that simple or maybe no maybe he was a boarder. But I went to a house party at his house. You did? Yeah. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:40:49 Got very drunk. Got pulled over on the way there for going what I thought was 90 miles an hour in the fast lane. I was going 42 miles an hour in the fast lane. So, very stoned. And I pulled over on the left side. Also, I have to say, for a lifelong stoner, you have total recall. I was going to say.
Starting point is 01:41:09 There are big swaths that are gone. Maybe it's the choreography that I kicked. That's the part that got fried. Also, one of my favorite things that happens on Les Coltraces is when Matt says something and then Bowen just repeats it quietly. I'm just realizing Matt has such a command of language i'm like i don't know why completely yes you do man it's right it's it's the writer in you like
Starting point is 01:41:34 you know how it hits the ear you always find the exact right sequence of syllables that it hits the ear in a way that is indelible and that's why people repeat your shit all the time that's exactly what it is and you you hold the like the feeling of when you're swinging and your stomach flips like you hold us there for so long you're like how is this so sustainable that this sentence is still happening i still feel butterflies in my stomach because i'm loving this sentence and then the drop is like how is it gonna land it and you always do okay but here's the thing i think i i thank you and i received that i think i have a very colorful and dare i say innovative way with words but the words are not always right
Starting point is 01:42:13 and it doesn't matter this and this this is the surgeon this is we this is bowen coming in with either a statement of what was incorrect for comedic effect, because it is so wrong or he'll come in and say, actually it's this and move on. And I love it. And there are some times, like sometimes I will listen back to old episodes and I'll be like, I mean, there it is.
Starting point is 01:42:37 They're doing it to give it. Yeah. As a, as a homage. Yes. I love Bowen I miss you I've been missing Matt a lot we've been separated
Starting point is 01:42:51 when are you guys going to get back together maybe holidays, new years it's too far away we actually have sort of a loose new years plan it's going to be a gag we're thinking about doing Miami and then Orlando We actually have sort of a loose New Year's plan. It's going to be a gag.
Starting point is 01:43:08 We're thinking about doing Miami and then Orlando, Florida. Wow. For the holidays. Shut up. No, Miami for New Year's and then post New Year's, maybe we go up to Orlando and finally ride the Scardians of the Galaxy
Starting point is 01:43:24 coaster. You know what I'm saying? You know. Yeah. Betty's like, great. Isn't it frustrating that soon you're going to have a full blown child that you have to take to Disney World? You have to take to Disney World. You must.
Starting point is 01:43:37 I know. I am excited to show her the new Little Mermaid. Do you follow? Oh, yeah. Is it they have the range on Instagram? No. They have the range? Oh, my God. I'll send it to you guys., is it, they have the range on Instagram? They have the range? Oh my God.
Starting point is 01:43:47 I'll send it to you guys. What is it? Let's hear it for the choice. Yes, yes, yes. There's, they have the range and there's their,
Starting point is 01:43:53 you better sing. They have the range and you better sing are too, like the craziest. And there are people who are singing on top of Ariel's. Oh, yes. That's a part of your world and harmonizing with it. It's so beautiful.
Starting point is 01:44:08 I'm obsessed. It's going to give. It's going to serve. It's going to eat. It's going to slay. Okay, Bowen. Bowen Yang, who I miss. I miss you. Okay, well, the creator of
Starting point is 01:44:24 the show just texted me and said the dance is so fucking good so the choreo YouTubes have made their rounds and apparently we're doing good work okay just checking in my favorite moment of the week Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So Honey his time it starts
Starting point is 01:44:40 now I don't think so honey gum like I'm not supposed to swallow you, but then if I chew you, you run out of flavor. How's that work? What's that about? The gum technology has not progressed. There's been no change in gum technology
Starting point is 01:44:56 in the last 40 years. It's crazy. Ask anyone on the street what xylitol is. They'll not tell you because no one knows or cares what that is stop advertising it on the gum and we were promised willy wonka levels of candy and gum innovation and we have not reached it the the most wow the biggest innovation in candy lately has been maybe nerds clusters they basically took the the nerds rope. They cut it up into little chunks. It's the most amazing blend of textures
Starting point is 01:45:27 in your mouth. Talk about a mouth feel. But gum, you're not doing anything new. You have not changed or mixed up the formula. I need you to step it up. Give us something new. And that's one minute. This, this, I'm not
Starting point is 01:45:44 dragging you, but this ideology is what's going to lead to AI taking over. You do realize that, right? I'm not saying that things have to progress. I'm not saying AI is the technology. Not all technology reaches an AI tournament. It's this type of ideology I'm saying if you listen.
Starting point is 01:46:00 It is. You ideologically are pushing us to destruction. There's no AI in Charlene the Chocolate Factory. Give us an everlasting gobstopper. Mama, it's the ideology. It's this idea that things must progress. Let's stay on the merry-go-round.
Starting point is 01:46:15 It doesn't have to be a merry-go-round on a rollercoaster. Sometimes things can just be gum. It can run out. You're not supposed to chew all the time. You're going to hurt your jaw. Gum is out. Lollipops are in. Lollipops are back. You're not supposed to chew all the time. You're going to hurt your jaw. Gum is out. Lollipops are in. Lollipops are back. Oh my god. First of all, it depends on the flavor. I think the umbrella could improve
Starting point is 01:46:32 as well. Why are we using the same 1840 model? Because I had this idea of city bikes, but for umbrellas. Little kiosks. When it's raining, you go, boop go and then you return it but the fucking problem is the the design of the umbrella sucks and it would all break
Starting point is 01:46:51 and you simply cannot be sure that it's going to come back in condition like better than you found it i mean like these umbrellas are actually taking a beating yeah absolutely but i just i don't think this thing of gum that never runs out of flavor is a good idea. I think it's going to lead to dark things. I think TMJ will go through the roof.
Starting point is 01:47:14 I think technology has come far enough. Well, then at least make gum edible. I'm not supposed to swallow you. I can't swallow. Mommy, you want to swallow you um yeah i can't swallow mommy you want to swallow gum it's called fucking starburst no you never even thought about that and that's why you said no and looked down so is because you hadn't even thought of starburst before you were like why can't i swallow my gum and pitched and pitched a fit it's time to move on it's a sunday okay betty are you ready
Starting point is 01:47:48 i am i i just i thought of it right before i realized i didn't have one so i don't think so honey i hope you haven't done this it doesn't matter it doesn't matter because you as you've proven with the book all the women in my brain are going to give it your own classic spin oh man okay this is betty gilpin's i don't think so honey her time starts now i don't think so honey the death of the standing ovation where did we go wrong a standing ovation is meant for when you are so overwhelmed and you you your life has been changed by a performance that you leap to your feet because you can no longer sit physically. Oh my God.
Starting point is 01:48:32 The whole group does it together. And it's, it's a once a year maximum or, or once a decade. 30 seconds. I'm so embarrassed. And like, I,
Starting point is 01:48:43 I, my throat closes thinking about it by these 15 minute long standing ovations whatever like when when these movies are ending as everyone being like and now we have to fucking stand up for 15 minutes and clap for who is very talented all these people are very talented
Starting point is 01:48:58 it's not about the actors we've we've hyperbolized ourselves into the sky how are we supposed to think any compliment means anything anymore it doesn't make sense the guillotines are too sharp the pedestals are too high let's meet in the middle with some truth i don't think so honey the standing ovation oh my god so you are arguing for muted responses no i mean you're talking about yeah sorry go ahead no choose when choose when to do like i remember my um my my great uncle or something was like a broadway producer and he was the first person who or one of the first people who helped move guys and dolls to broadway and talked about how
Starting point is 01:49:40 when they first sang sit down you're rocking the boat like the whole audience it was like they were gonna rip their chairs out of the ground and like move to their feet and they made him do it like four more times like in that performance and that and i know they did that with um uh you're gonna love me jennifer holiday like the standing ovation was so raucous that they were like we gotta do this song again oh my god and i just like we've just the concept of the standing ovation and the compliment we just it's too much how do we know how do we know what's right and what's wrong and what's real there were five when we saw funny girl last week and we did feel that they were earned like we definitely did leap up with everyone else some of them are totally earned
Starting point is 01:50:25 like you know what would fuck me up is like you're watching this movie that you're a part of whatever like or doing a show that you're a part of whatever it gets a eight to nine minute Toronto International Film Festival or any of these film festival ask standing ovation talking about the film festival
Starting point is 01:50:41 at a yes this is what I'm saying. Then you walk out and the reviews hit and people are like, we didn't like this. Exactly. But you stood and clapped your hands raw. Yes. Yeah. I have felt that change
Starting point is 01:50:59 in the industry in terms of while you're making something and then the immediate, the first people who see it are like what we've done is we've changed film and television yeah yeah and wait until you and so the hyperbole go and then the first thing it hits is the internet which is the opposite of like you deserve to die for this thing and then like a year later the truth emerges of like it's somewhere in the middle. It's like people don't even really care. Exactly.
Starting point is 01:51:28 Or like you didn't change the form and you didn't, you don't deserve the death penalty. You made a thing that's part good and part bad. There you go. Yeah. But your, your whole standing ovation thing. Um,
Starting point is 01:51:42 thank you for putting, for putting crazy for you back on the map in your book that is an excellent musical that was your worst musical you ever saw crazy for you yes with jodie benson oh my god that's right she wasn't that yes and i cannot fucking find the soundtrack is not on spotify not on itunes not on nothing oh the crazy voice second i thought you meant the little mermaid i was like what no no disney's gone um no her voice singing those gershwin songs unbelievable there are eq clips of it oh but yes she is a talent like she's a talent she really is um wait but did you this is a shot in the dark but did you listen to her interview um what that she did with danny pellegrino and everything iconic you really should no i i heard you talking about it but i have i have to such a nice like he has such good questions about just like being a singer
Starting point is 01:52:37 capital s hard r right who then goes in to do this acting piece as like a child cartoon and then just like getting there and just, I don't know. The human voice, everyone. I've always thought that part of your world should be done as a woman realizing she is a terrible hoarder. Like you want,
Starting point is 01:52:57 you want to sing them a Bob's? I've got, Oh my God. Look at this. I'm crazy I have to go I usually leave the ocean you don't think our compliments aren't real
Starting point is 01:53:19 no no my god no no no when they're to me I know this yes honestly I you know well you know what i haven't seen that that you just recently did that i'm really excited about and i keep wanting to see it but it is on stars which is the only thing that was stopping me because i don't have it was gaslit i wanted stars no well i mean there's so many there's so many like platforms now and i already feel like i i already
Starting point is 01:53:45 feel like i have everything and then something comes out that i really want to see and i'm like oh i don't have that one like no i'm like there's so many do you guys have peacock i love peacock because i love housewives great oh right okay great great great so that's what is a beautiful place the nun nun nun dumb is on it's gonna be on peacock yeah love love i love peacock peacock gets so much of my actual because that's another thing it's like you you you pay for all these streamers and then you actually sit like zoom out and think which one do i actually use like people up there for me yeah am i on apple tv plus though or only when the morning show is out right right right right yeah by the way I mean I
Starting point is 01:54:27 just can't wait for that oh my god you need to get on that I do I do I know I mean like I mean like Betty needs to get a role on it oh you need to get on that yeah but you do know that every time I see a good show or see a good film or like I'm thinking about even writing something, I'm always like, and how would Betty be in it?
Starting point is 01:54:49 I literally I'm always like, what's the part in the show that Betty could play? Like, I do watch Morning Show and I'm like, where's Betty? Get Betty in there. It's because you're number one. You should do a show where you have a long ponytail and your dress is Erin Brockovich and you're wrapped in silks by the door with a shiv and yeah so can i ask you a question so with me with this long ponytail and your vision of us when i sort of saw up to the bank bowen and silks is he also like sir is he presenting female i think i'm bald no no no i don't think i think it's sort of you're you dressed in aaron brockovich clothes and you're you dressed in like purple tits to the sky yeah okay got it yeah well you know i i every time i see kate hudson in a project that's
Starting point is 01:55:34 who i am so that's i guess when i'm stomping around going to the bank i'm kate hudson right right right right yeah it's just on the vision board you're the piccolo aaron brockovich and we've got bassoon purple silk just things that i'm adding to the boards i'm gonna use this just like for my own like subconscious like you know like sort of like as i'm working through something wow amazing thank you betty thank you guys well well what what else to say i mean this is to say it's it's such a great read and like honestly if you want to just um be smiling at a book with full teeth um pick up all the women in my brain which is available now by our literal um limitless guests i mean you're the best and we're so happy
Starting point is 01:56:22 that you came back on thank you so much for having me. I love you guys so much. I really do love you. We love you. We love you. I really wish we could have been in the same because I remember there was like a loose thing where maybe we were all going to be in L.A. And then that so didn't happen. I know. I know.
Starting point is 01:56:37 We will join together soon. We will join together. Yeah, I'll be back in New York in December. Yes, we will all join together in New York. But until then, Bowen, what do we do at the end of every episode? We end with a song. And this is a throwback to your last episode.
Starting point is 01:56:52 Moon river Wider than a mile I'm crossing you in style someday someday did I change the key? no I think I just
Starting point is 01:57:15 my basement was too low well our basements are so much lower than they were three years ago because of the years we didn't pick a title up should it be the years dot dot dot? I think it's Piccolo and Bassoon. Piccolo and Bassoon. But that's not about us. It's not about our glorious guests.
Starting point is 01:57:32 No, I approve. Honestly, maggots and magic and Piccolo and Bassoon. Anyway, happy we all shared it on that thought process, readers. Bye! Love you, love you. I'm Sheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby.
Starting point is 01:57:55 And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 01:58:20 Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars.
Starting point is 01:58:46 We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez
Starting point is 01:59:38 was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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