Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Smart, Weird and Crazy" (w/ Jon Lovett)

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

Jon Lovett on Las Cultch?! Likely story! And also literal story. Because it's true... Lovett (the host of the Lovett or Leave It, and Pod Save America podcasts and co-founder of Crooked Media) is finally here on LC - live from Vanessa Hudgens' former home! - to chat with Matt & Bowen about all things CULTURE under the sun. Topics include Succession, Brian Cox's sense of humor or lack thereof, edutainment, The Muppets Take Manhattan, Barney as "hustle culture", gaymer culture and a referendum on the N64 controller, Tony Hawk, Matchbox 20 and Rob Thomas as a voice for women, and "not knowing about music". All this, an insight into Jeremy Strong's process, our smart and dumb areas, whether we should be challenging ourselves to use more expressive and complicated words than "smart" and "dumb", and the usefulness and validity of book blurbs by famous people. Get tickets to Lovett or Leave It's upcoming "The Errors Tour" at crooked.com/events!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City are back. I love that. I love that. Oh my gosh. Welcome. And last season's drama was just the tip of the iceberg. You're recording us? I am disgusted.

Never in a million years after everything we've been through did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy. We were friends. How could you do this to me? I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Wednesdays at nine on Bravo or stream it on City TV Plus. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw

interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.

I'm Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby and on our new podcast we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day because no matter who you are there are levels to what we experience as women and T and I have no problem going there listen to levels to this with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment you can find us on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast or wherever you get Foster Brasby and I heart women's sports production and partnership with deep blue sports and entertainment. You can find us on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast presented by capital one, founding partner of I heart women's sports. Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Look over there.

Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Las culture. Ding dong. Las culture. East is calling. and look over there wow is that culture yes goodness wow las culturistas ding dong las culturistas calling beautiful day here in new york city where we both live likely story by the way couple things it is a beautiful day in new york city also this is a perfect little addendum to really anything matt is bringing back we're both bringing back likely story. Likely story is back as a phrase.

You can sort of tack it onto anything. Yeah, whenever anyone says anything that's a little bit questionable, you can just turn to, let's say your friend. Like,

I would turn to Bone and I would say, likely story. Likely story. And it's gonna bring down the house. You're welcome. There's also an element of like, auto commentary

where you can say something and then add it yourself like likely story likely story like i'm gonna make it to the gym today likely likely story it really is so versatile powerful power verse power verse it's a perfect little spice to anything you say if you want to sort of um seem interesting listen something's going on with me i am going through this crazy bout of social anxiety and i don't want it to be another like woe is me bowen moment but i

something's going on just as the weather is warming up well i was gonna say as the weather's warming up my social anxiety is kicking in likely story well that's just that's just how it goes i think totally i'm way more socially anxious in los angeles than i am in new york city that tracks likely story likely story and i think it's because in new york city and i'm also talking about my girls brooklyn and queens okay i'm roping everybody in yeah they're sort of like escape routes you know what i mean and also like in new New York there's so many different kinds of people where in LA there's not and so that's sort of all Sam said

Well our guest happens to be there and he's making a face and Here's my thing about the guest One of my favorite occupants of Los Angeles Oh That is high praise? Question mark? Not only is it a likely story, it's a true story.

That is really, really nice. I agree. I've never seen our guest in an LA context. Yeah. But I'm sure that were I to see him... He doesn't really give LA. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Let's get into that with him because I feel like... How does that work? You know? Well, I don't know. And it's crazy because we're literally talking to him in the most LA atmosphere you can possibly be in, which is Vanessa Hudgens' old home. So the guest owns Vanessa Hudgens' old home. It's now his home, likely story.

And it's actually kind of crazy because he logs onto the Zoom and he's sort of sitting in this sort of what I can only call gorgeous setting and I complimented him on the wallpaper and he said I didn't pick this out Vanessa Hudgens picked this out and that's just one of the many topics we're going to get into on today's episode of lost culture is this with our guests and that's a likely story, Bo. Absolutely. I guess we can ask him, but I wonder if this is the house where she said, people are going to die. I shouldn't be doing this.

I shouldn't be doing this. Wait, we have to pull up the video. We have to find out where she said that in the home. I'm sure he knows. I'm sure he's locked it down. He does. He's nodding. Look at his cute little smile. He's nodding a cute little smile and now he's ducking out of little smile and now listen call me david letterman because our guest really needs no introduction podcasting legend podcasting pioneer podcasting curator you know i'm from pods of america and

love it or leave it among so many other things i mean this is a this is an icon. Podcast icon. God, one of those people who's like dauntingly funny. Hashtag actually smart in a real way. Hashtag actually smart. I know. I know. So we'll see how this goes. We're going to see how it goes.

I might just clam up and really not speak the whole time. Well, you're so shy. Why are you so shy, Beau? I'm very shy. What do you think? And we talked earlier about maybe you're smoking too much weed. It's that. It's, um, I don't know.

Like, I find myself losing self-concept, proprioception. I don't know how I'm moving around in the world. It's that. I need to talk to my therapist about it. Google's proprioception. Therapist says proprioception once. Beau and Yang uses it for the rest of his life. That's where I got it from. My therapist used that on me. Likely story.

Likely story. Okay, so I think at this point is the sort of part where we bring in the guest. Everyone, please welcome into your ears, John Lovett. Wow. You know, you listen to the show and you hear about people sitting in silence while you do whatever it is that you just did and then you you live it for yourself and it's different you know was it better than you ever could have dreamed was it better than your liquid dreams o-town yeah it was sure it was better than my liquid dreams you know what goes well with um likely story is must be nice oh oh wow that's my story okay wow thanks

for collabing with us yeah must be nice is good and for some reason i also i switched that out with and it's not quite as good but i switched that out with pretty cool right something like that just a nice little salt bay like dash of something can i throw something out there instead of how about them apples you just say them apples now really you don't like that i like it no it's really good i mean could you give us an example could you i don't i'm not trying i don't i'm not seeing it when people see that this episode's coming out and john lovett is finally on Las Culturistas after years of...

Yeah, put a big fucking underline under finally. Jesus Christ. Was Pat Regan for the seventh time not available? I don't understand. Oh my goodness. I love Pat. Pat's amazing. But he has been on a lot.

But he must have been busy. He must have been busy. You know, he's been on recently and this is first time Las Culturistas, John Lovett. Well, John will sort of nag me sometimes because I'm frequently on Lovett or Leave It and I love coming on, especially to play my character of masculinity expert Brad Turbo.

That's kind of my favorite thing I do on the show. But you're always sort of nagging me because you're like, yeah, well, this is I guess your 800th time on the show and I've not been on. But I always used to say I would like to wait for us all to do it in person. Which is a weird thing to say than not do that. Likely story.

Likely story. Well, I don't think this is any lesser of a sort of reality than like if we were in person. It would be best if we were all in Vanessa's house. That's what I was just going to say. That would be great. And just to go back to what you were saying, yes, this is where she said that thing that like, look, people are going to die, but like, I have to go to the mall. It happened here. It happened upstairs here.

I know the room. I found it. You found it. I found the spot. Oh, my goodness. So did you see the House and Architectural Digest? Because she famously showed this House and Architectural Digest, which I then heard is something that celebrities often do when they want to sell their home ah are you confirming this is the case i didn't know that either but that's that's why they do it look my eyes are open

yeah here's the thing you have to stay woke and the uh that is the thing and that is the thing but yes apparently when they do these house tours and they're like, I can't wait for this tree to grow so big that my children can play under it. Yeah. They're full of shit. It's about to be listed. It's going to be listed that very day. Yeah. Now, correct me if I'm wrong.

She had sort of an interesting mural next to the pool. Did you keep that? No, you didn't. It's gone. Painted right over it. Painted right over it. She was so proud of't. It's gone. Painted right over it. Painted right over it. She was so proud of it. It's gone.

Oh, man. And you held the brush yourself. But I replaced it with nothing. Okay. Oh. So it's just a wall. It's just white. Just paint it over.

It's great. They're gone. I don't know. That's amazing. I don't know that I'm the hero in this part of our conversation. No, I think all you're proving is that you're way more boring than Vanessa Hudgens, who seems fucking rad and awesome and cool.

And now you are painting over her scapes. Jeez. I'll tell you one other thing, which is she was getting so much PR crap mailed to this house

from brands so, so much. And for weeks, if not months, her assistant would come like every two weeks and fill up her Mini Cooper to the brim with boxes. And they've barely slowed down, but the assistant has stopped replying.

And so I have boxes and boxes of just free crap that's for Vanessa Hudgens in my basement. And when my mother and sister come, they call it the mall. They go down there and they like, they like, ooh, a sarong,ong you know it's like a little store look $2,500 worth of lemare it's nothing that nice it's like boba ice cream and instagram sunglasses it's just absolute it's an unending river of crap that people are mailing in the hopes that just maybe it might appear in a video in which vanessa hudgens is saying that the pandemic isn't a big deal. Right.

The mall came to me. I didn't have to, people didn't have to die. Right. Yeah. The mall came to me. You're unboxing these? You're unboxing all of the boxes? Um, I feel like-

Well, I'm just wondering if I'm, uh, I would say that I accidentally opened them all thinking they're for me. I think I should say something like that. Yeah, but here's the thing. Jump scare when you get a package and it says Vanessa Hudgens on it. You know what I mean? Like, does it ever say Vanessa Ann Hudgens? Because famously for a while there,

she was Vanessa Ann Hudgens. I'm not quite sure. It's actually at this point disappointing. It's just like, it's like, it's going to be another like size zero bit of athleisure. You know, what am I supposed to do with this? Right. I guess not much.

I don't know. You could make some wall art for the mural. Yeah. The erstwhile mural. She is, I think, maybe one of the most famous ADs ever, which is why I'm still asking about it 11 minutes into the podcast. Now, do you ever go into that area that's sort of not the backyard, but it's next to the backyard?

And because I remember she said that sometimes she would use that to just frolic and just dance around and sometimes even do dance contests with her friends. So I'm wondering, do you ever get, you know, Favreau over there to kind of like do a dance contest? Yeah, we do a lot of that. We do interpretive dance night. You know, he's surprisingly limber

for someone from Boston. And so, yeah, I mean, that's why, that was what excited me about it, the opportunity to have a space for dancing. Right. Do you ever even go back there? Be real. Tell a lively story. Of course I do. Of course I do. And I'm so lucky to be here. Of course. I believe that the previous owner

was Gary Oldman. So there was a lot of, like, big 90s screens about, you know, like from an era when from a pre iPhone, pre iPad era. Yeah. It was like very like one off big screens with buttons that don't do anything anymore that connect to nothing. You know? Yeah.

A dock for like a second generation iPod. Yes. Physical wheel. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Very Gary Oldman. Very that, you know, I would die to know what vanessa hudgens's

wi-fi name was okay this is vulnerability hour what is the name of your wi-fi thing and what is the password to your wi-fi so i will say so when i moved in i said hello to the neighbors and one of the neighbors said wow that's thank you for saying hi and made a point that Gary Oldman never talked to anybody and they have an inside of my across the street neighbor have an impression that they do of Gary Oldman. They saw Gary Oldman on the

street and they said to Gary Oldman, hey, we're going to have a barbecue. You know, you're on your neighbor. Do you want to stop by? And he did this. It's not going to work on the podcast, but we can describe it. He went like this. He went like this. Okay. So what Levitt's doing is he's putting his both arms out, sort of doing like a wave that, you know, a decline, but shaking his head with a puckered face. It's pushing the event so far away. Like this is completely, you know, like, no, no, no,

I'm not going to that and they apparently it's become an inside joke that that's what you do to decline something in that home a gesture gary oldman made probably 10 years ago right but doesn't that i mean sorry to say likely story like that just tracks as gary oldman to me yeah it does well when she did it it was like oh my god i can see it it was an incredible yeah yeah you could see the performance yeah yeah yeah well gary oldman is such an amazing actor and i'm so happy that we've arrived in the part of the podcast where we talk at length about his filmography what's your wi-fi things name because you didn't answer that question and told a different just just say the network if you feel comfortable but you don't have to indulge me um that's real culture number 88 you don't have to

indulge you don't have to indulge man. You don't have to indulge me. It is named after a video game and that's all I'll say. What is it? Bowen's Heart is a Rock? I'll know. It's named after a game called Outer Wilds. Do you ever play Outer Wilds? Oh, I never played Outer Wilds. Gotta play Outer Wilds. Wait, what is that? What's the genre? That was an Annapurna game.

It was like a very small game. It was like an exploration game. Not Outer Worlds. Not Outer Worlds. Outer Wilds. Outer Worlds is like a big open world game this is outer wilds which is different oh yes yes yes okay great and then it looks like the person is like from from bioshock but it's just someone in like a what do you call that a suit a suit space suit a spaceuit subsuit or something something i i know for a fact that i'm not alone in my sort of gay gamer reality but i feel like it's hard to like find community among other homosexual men about the kinds of video games we like to play because it feels at this point so individualized and there is,

I think video games are like one of the last places where there is monoculture. And yet even there, it's sort of fragmenting just as any other media. Well, I, I do think it's a similar problem. You know, there,

there's more experimentation and there's, I do think kind of more innovation in what a game can be. There's just more variability. You can have a game like Modern Warfare and then you can have a game where you never press a button and you just explore a world reading letters about a person who died. You know, like that's a pretty big range.

But I do think like there's the Marvel type games, Fortnite. Say more about those. That sounds really fun. They're the big budget games, Fortnite. Say more about those. That sounds really fun. They're the big budget, like shooting games. And then you put all those aside and then you have to find like

the more indie games or the smaller games or the more cerebral games. And that's sort of where I go. Plus I love the, like I loved Elden Ring. I love, I do love Bioshock.

I love Dark Souls and Bloodborne and those games. I feel like all of those FromSoftware games are very John Lovett. Yeah. Do you play them? I don't. So Matt, these are games that are incredibly difficult. You die constantly.

And I just, I don't work under that feedback loop of like, you failed. What are you playing? I am playing the Disney World equivalent of an MMO, which is Final Fantasy XIV. The designers literally are trying to make it feel like a theme park. Like you're supposed to like log on and it's supposed to be like, you can go do this and do that and do that.

And it's great. I did famously buy Matt Rodgers a Switch with Breath of the Wild. How far did you get into it, Matt? I got into the part where you're sort of in like a big tomb. There's like robot scorpion things attacking you, and I can't figure out how to sort of get out of there.

And so it's been frustrating for me so much so that I haven't touched it in a long time. And then I really was, I can't stress enough, I couldn't load all the games onto the Switch. I really am not good at tech. I'm not good at it. And it frustrates me.

It's probably the same way that you're frustrated by dying a thousand times in a game. I'm frustrated by turning on the game and finding out I can't play it. You know what I'm saying? Of course, of course. I think the missing piece, the thing that Matt needs is just someone to show him where to put an SD card. Of course. I think the missing piece, the thing that Matt needs is

just someone to show him where to put an SD card. Say that, honey. Say that. What I need is someone to come in here and show me where to put the SD card, darling. Absolutely. Absolutely. You just slide it in right there. Yeah. In the slot. I think that's all

you really need, Matt, and then you'll be off to the races. But I respect maybe they're ultimately not for you. And it's okay. You know what though, Bowen? Say this. And say the truth. Say the likely true story of this. When we play Mario Kart together, even on the newer systems, I hold my own. It takes me a second, but I'm actually pretty good for someone that doesn't know how. True story. That is a true story. I just feel like on a lot of the newer systems, again this is me saying it as like sort of a pedestrian now at this point but as someone who definitely identified as a little gamer when i was young like in a major way i feel everything's gotten

more complicated yes of course it's all gotten more dynamic and like you know one could even just say things have gotten better like the worlds are bigger they're more interesting they're more visually appealing they're more stimulating etc they're more visually appealing, they're more stimulating, etc. There's more characters and more to explore. But also I kind of miss back in the day when it was like Super Smash Bros. on GameCube when it was like, you started out with I think 8-10 people, you could unlock

characters and then that was it. It's like, it just feels like it's all so much now and the muchness is what kind of like I don't love as much because, I don't know, I feel like an old old man now because whenever I just see Pac-Man, kind of like, I don't love as much because I don't know. Like, I feel like an old, old man now, because whenever I just see Pac-Man, I'm like,

thank God. I know exactly what I got to do. Mama has to eat. And if she dies, she's going to spin in a circle and be no more. Oh my God. Straightforward. And it's the saddest thing.

Yeah. Because it's life and death. That's the thing. The game has such high highs because you can eat a ghost right but then it has these really low devastating moments where yes a ghost that's not a ghost that's not vulnerable eats you right yeah and it's also a larger i think message about vulnerability the clown comes back to bite in many ways well it's that you can eat the ghost when they're scared but when they're not scared, you cannot.

So would you say that when you're eating the ghost, that's doing clownery? And that when the ghost eats you, the clown comes back to bite? I think that's right. Here's what I think. I think that there was a key moment. And here's the key moment. I think the key moment is when

Sony and Nintendo decided that there weren't going to be just one trigger for each finger, but two. Oh my god. And I think that that moment, if you weren't there to learn that divide between like, when they went from I think it's either PlayStation to PlayStation 2

or 2 to 3, when Nintendo added the Z1, when there was like the second triggers, I think that like like there are people that just, they never cross that bridge and now they don't know how to get there, you know? That's so interesting because I

feel like the first moment of like pure alienation by a video game company was Nintendo giving you N64 controllers where it had three handles. Yes. When they built that for people with three arms, and they never explained their mistake or took ownership or accountability for it. You're alienating so many people.

Everyone else doesn't have three arms. I thought it was so cunt. I loved that controller. I thought it was K-U-N-T, and it served that. I think we all thought so, but then once you, like, in theory, it's cunt, but then when you use it, and then, John, the fact that there's a Z trigger on n64 controllers is what fucked us that's how little little guys learn how to finger that's how little guys learn how to finger and then that branches off into two

two triggers on each side yes and there was no way to ever you never used it the way it seemed like it was meant to be used you never grabbed it symmetrically you always had one your left hand on the the middle zone where the joystick was oh you didn't no i don't know what this is and it may actually even trace back to the way i hold a pen is weird for some reason like bowen have you noticed this because some people will make an issue of it with me when they watch me hand right i guess you don't watch how do you how do you hold the pen okay where is the pen my middle finger kind of my middle arch kind of gets a little too high. This is how I hold a pen. That's interesting.

And you see how like, I'm not using all my fingers and they don't converge at the same point. I'm like resting the pen on what is actually my middle finger. And I think this is actually the way a lefty holds a pen. And so as a result of writing left to right and holding a pen this way, frequently throughout my handwriting career which really took place between the ages of 4 and 18 when i was really handwriting a lot and let's call it grade school um i would have ink all over i guess my middle ring and pinky finger from like the ink not drying and just the way I naturally hold a pen. Humiliating and something I had to contend with in my life.

Yeah, that sounds really hard. Thank you for telling us about it. Yeah, I don't know if that's why. I would hold the left and right prong on the N64 controller because I just hold things different than like other girls. I'm not like other girls. Right.

I think it's hard to think of it as a cause. It could be connected. Maybe there's a separate cause for both, but I don't think it's a cause. I don't think the way you hold a pen is the reason you hold a controller that way. I think they're hard to think of it as a cause. It could be connected. Maybe there's a separate cause for both, but I don't think it's a cause. I don't think the way you hold a pen is the reason you hold a controller that way. I think they're unrelated, probably. Just being honest.

You think I'm just different. You think I'm different and valid. Yeah. I think you march to the beat of your own drummer. A phrase I love. You like that? Do you really? Love it.

Yeah, I use it all the time. Likely story. Much likely story. Wait, if you were known for as someone who said like and they marched to the beat of their own drummer that would actually be major i also say all the time they broke the mold with that one do you like that i love that one and it seems unrelated but don't have to tell me twice don't have to tell me no that's really good that's really good what do i say a lot there's definitely like prepositions I use a lot on this podcast

and Bowen I think says here's the thing I think I say here's the thing I feel like I hear that in your voice I feel like I hear here's the thing

in my voice yes if there are ticks that we have I guess the readers the Katie's the finalists and the publicists would be the ones to like confirm

what those are oh here's what I try to consciously work in and I don't find too many opportunities to are you ready yes perfect example perfect example oh my god that's good example it's really good the person just sounds smart when they use it yeah perfect example the real housewives of new york city are back for another bite of the Big Apple.

Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy. What? You told her?

Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll.

This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations. I was a desperate, delusional dreamer. And the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger.

I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom, and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman.

And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships,

motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women and TNI. Well, we have no problem going there. Listen to levels to this with Cheryl swoops and Tarika Foster, Brasby and I heart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. You're both smart. Now, I want to say to you, John, so Bowen is sort of on this thing, I think because he knows he's a smart person and there's another smart person in the chat which doesn't happen to him frequently because he goes to the podcast with me so now that you're in the chat he's sort of doing this

thing where it's like i'm not smart i'm not smart i do this every week with every guest you don't liar likely story but do you are you knowledgeable about everything, John? And if so, what are you dumb about? Ridiculous. First of all, first of all, I actually think you're both right. I think Bowen knows how smart Bowen is. Yes, he does. And Bowen often does do a performance of Aw Shucks. Yes,

he does. Thank you for saying it. As a listener, as a reader. Thank you. I'm going to do a thing where I bring race into it. Okay. Sure. It's time. 30 minutes in. Let's hear it. It's time. I'm pouring myself a drink. I'm bringing race into it. I think culture's the world over. See an Asian person wearing glasses, they go, he's probably smart. And I think- And you think that's what I've been doing for years? No, no, no, no, no. I think that's what I've been doing for years.

No, no, no, no, no. I think that that just given me such a boost. I see. And it's not one that's fully that I've, I've not taken that vertical to the fullest height. Here's what I want to say. First of all, I'm realizing I'm doing that. That's why I think you're smart.

No, no, no. Here's, here's, I think the word smart. I think the word smart is bad. Yeah. It's a bit like saying like weird or crazy. It's a stand in for a bunch of qualities. Fine. Here's what I think. Here's what I think. What my experience of it is, is that Bowen is very precise in his use of language in describing your experience, in describing the world, but then you are less precise in how you apply it to yourself. So as not to precisely say the ways in which you think highly of yourself because it would feel like bragging. Wow. That's really interesting. That is really, to use a word, to use a big word, it's very astute.

That's really interesting. First, I quickly want to say, while you were saying that, I did feel silly because what I call Matt all the time is smart. I'm always over here gassing my friend up going, I mean, Matt's one of the smartest people I know. And then I'm always sort of challenging him. I'm always saying, say more, say more say more yeah say more about that matt is incredibly emotionally and textually intelligent he is able to interpret something with you think i'm textual i said textually oh you think i'm textual i think you can watch a movie a tv show read a book and you know the exact right takeaway not that there's always a right takeaway. No one is textually attracted. I think it's cool that when you thought he meant textural,

that was awesome. Instantly pivoted to textual, equally cool. You think I'm textural? Both were cool and you loved both. Did I not say textual? You said textual. You said textual. And I said, you think I'm textural,

which I don't think is a word. I think it might be textural. It doesn't matter. I think either way it works. I think that's very, very astute, John. But you have yet again, sort of heard a question that I've asked and said something else. And that's okay. The second time, the third time, it's the famous expression.

Fool me twice. Shame on me. Fool me three times. You're off the pod. Wow. You've been kicked out. As quickly as I came in. And just like that. And just like that. expression fool me twice shame on me fool me three times you're off the pod wow you're getting kicked out as quickly as i came in and just like that and just like that and just like that big was dead anyway what subjects do you lack knowledge in what's your dumb area i'm dumb about a lot of

things go ahead here are some things i don't know about sports okay music you don't know about music well why ask a question if you're gonna react like that what's the what is that is that what this was i love this dance three of us are doing go ahead say more things i won't interrupt uh i don't know anything about like cooking really, or, you know, food generally. Wine is baffling to me. I find it interesting when people know about wine because it seems like a way to stop liking things that cost $30,

you know? It's like, why, why try so hard to become like disgusted by something reasonable. Right. So I don't really understand that. I don't know anything about plants or trees. Oh, that's a huge one.

I don't know about it. Especially in LA. I'll be walking with a friend of mine and they'll say, oh my God, look at that. It's a bougainvillea or something of that sort. Or look at that. These are blossoming. Yeah.

What is that? Something. Don't know. Don't know anything about it. So far, I think we share a lot of these categories, except for music. But I think you saying a dumb area of yours is music means that you don't,

like, does that mean you don't know theory or you don't know, like, what the kids are listening to? I don't, yeah, I would say I don't know what the kids are listening to. Got it. I think that's a function of, like, age. Like, because I feel less and less. But I never did.

Oh, okay. I think that's a function of like age. Like, cause I feel, but I never did. Oh, okay. Oh, I really just never did. I didn't, I tried when I was a kid to keep up and I bought a CD. The first two CDs I bought one was, um, live throwing copper.

Okay. That I just, it's what, it's what the kids were buying. And I'm just telling, I'm explaining, you know what the kids were buying. Sorry. I'm explaining. You know what? No, I didn't mean to make a face.

What is this? I don't know. This is Lost Coast. You begged to be on. Stop. I love you. Keep going. What's the second album you bought? I love you. Keep going. I do love you. I get a warm feeling every time I see you keep going what's the second album you bought you can't just I love you keep going I do love you and I get a warm feeling

every time I see you now say the second album you know what you can put a nail in a wall and then take it out but you know what's left behind

I'll tell you holes a hole sorry for the holes I've left behind the other one the other was I didn't hear it

the other one was Matchbox 20 remember that okay yeah that's yeah what was that album called that I didn't hear it. The other one was Matchbox 20. Okay, yeah. What was that album called? I must be lonely. Because I heard other kids talking about it.

And then I went to the store and I got it and I brought it home and I just played it just to try to understand what all the fuss was about. I'm still not sure. You don't get Matchbox 20? I mean, I liked it, but I just didn't... I was like, okay, so this is good.

This is what I'm supposed to like. Okay, I can like this. I can get that done. We all have had that. That's a good album. That's 3AM on that. No, that's totally great. 3AM is a classic iconic song.

And then, of course, Push. I wanna push you around well i will that one really good which everyone was obsessed with saying at the time was written from a female perspective and they were like isn't it amazing that rob thomas and matchbox 20 did this song push which is get this bravely written from a female perspective and people were saying this is matchbox 20 speaking for women who are pushing back against i guess like violence towards women like i'm gonna push you back i'm not gonna take disrespect in my relationship i'm gonna push you around i will i will and yet it was just

rob thomas's sort of male voice singing that um i feel like you're slowly letting us know that you wrote your college thesis about this album and And you're like, there's actually a lot of detail that you're bringing to the table, which is exciting. That's really nice of you that you think I wrote a college thesis. Thank you. That is such a 90s. We're in this... Tell us what we're in, King. I'm thinking about it.

I'm thinking about it. And it's like, it takes, it takes until now for something to go from being obviously like, like the nineties are now the past, the past unequivocal. They are the past. It's another era. And so then you're a lot, then I think you can talk about it as the past. And so people are more honest about it. And there's like an all male band writing a song from a woman's perspective or like James Bond. There were all these articles about how like James Bond is moving past the sexism of its old era. Why? Because he's punching women now. You know, like, like, James Bond can fight a woman and that's how you know, we're kind of moved into the future. And there's this quality to 90s culture that was a bunch of people who were very much mired in sexism and racism and misogyny and all of it.

Patting themselves on the back, believing that that was all behind them. Like it was the end of history. And I love it. I just love the energy of it. And I like the reexamination of it. Yes. That was a very much the time of one of my favorite things to say, talking about being able to say things.

One of my favorite things to say that I never get to say is, and he happens to be gay. And that was the very much. And he happens to be gay era. Like, and guess what? There's also a character that is can confirm black. And also, you know, you know what we're actually doing

ross actually has a black girlfriend this episode deal with it deal with it she will get dumped in two episodes and just the whole like a whole political moment about the whole premise being that like gay people were cool with it because they couldn't help it. Yeah. They didn't want to be like this. It's not their fault. They just wasn't their choice. Obviously, they wouldn't choose this life. And that's the most important reason to accept it.

I think both of you are so, so, so right about this. And I think it's finally time we start moving towards locating this person. But I was just talking this weekend about, but he's gay. He's gay. Sorry, he's blind. Yes. We need to find that newscaster. She has done such a service.

We talk about her at work every week. Me and Celeste and Sarah, we're always like, well, like it's Tuesday. We're like, well, we don't have any ideas. Should we write a sketch that's, but's gay sorry he's blind like we're like where is this person we have i like we need to find her yeah you know that is the ultimate the ultimate news blooper news fail grape stomp lady found dead maybe literally i agree i don't know the grape stomp lady she sounds really fucked up it's like a gruesome sound i don't know. The Grape Stomp Lady, she sounds really fucked up. It's like a gruesome sound. I don't know that this is true, but I think she got really hurt.

She got really hurt. Which is another thing. We've talked on this podcast before about fail culture. And when a blooper that goes wrong in a physical way, I don't understand watching those like for pleasure because what you're hearing and seeing are the sounds of someone getting physical pain often brutalization and i'll tell you what really hurts me in the heart because it hurts me physically to even watch the experience of watching it gives me pain are skateboarding fail videos it is so gnarly yeah

skateboarding to me it is the lowest reward highest risk pursuit especially because those games and i played that tony hawk game yep oh my god so much fun we met tony hawk when he was on the same love it or leave it as tony hawk we met tony hawk and thank you for saying it so i didn't have to yes it was surreal it was great and i We met Tony Hawk. Thank you for saying it so I didn't have to. Yes, it was surreal. It was great. And I asked him about this too, which is in the Tony Hawk game, you do these incredible moves. You spin up in the air and then you watch

real skateboarding and the things that get applause are just, they're nowhere near the exciting maneuvers that take place in the game. And then people just eat shit. Yeah, I sure do. It's no good it's no good and did he confirm he can't do those magic tricks uh yes and he did he had recently broken his femur yeah which is the biggest bone in your body not great not one you want to break he's

doing okay now that's good okay so while we're sort of in this area of like we're talking about 90s culture we're talking about throwback culture we're talking about even things like you mentioned like the formative music you were listening to it's time to ask the question which is the central question of the podcast which is and i'm honored that we get to ask you this john love it what was the culture that made you say culture was for me so i thought about this and people always and talk about talk about filler things that people always say is they always say i thought about this. People always... Talk about filler things that people always say. I've thought about this. What kind of fucking host are you?

An award-winning one. Keep going. Oh, listen. We both have Webby's. Go ahead. Ask me what award. Is it a Webby? It's not a Webby. We actually got snubbed by the Webby's this year. Snubbed by the Webby's? That sucks.

We're going to the GLAAD Awards yeah that sucks we're going to the glad awards on uh saturday on saturday we're gonna lose probably yeah okay anyway go on oh yeah so i think you have to put these two things together which is why i'm gonna say them both one is mathnet on square one which was a show on public television. It was a show about math that aired when I was a kid. And at the end of every, no, it had a lot of different games and segments. I didn't like those.

I didn't watch those. That culture wasn't for me. But at the end of every episode of square one, there was a segment called math net, a math based parody of Dragnet that had two detectives. I want to remember their names. The guy's name was Joe Frankly. And there were

two different female detectives. It started with, I believe, Pat Munday. And then Pat Munday left the show and was replaced by, like, Kate Tuesday. Math! And they would use math to solve crimes like there was a man in a gorilla suit who robbed a bank how far could he have gotten between when the first witness saw and the second witness saw him and it would always have the like, bum-ba-da-bum,

bum-ba-da-ba-da, and it would be about two detectives using math to solve crimes. Loved it. Very important to me. The other is a specific scene which is a scene when a sad Miss Piggy returns to the department store

in Muppets Take Manhattan and Joan Rivers cheers her up by giving her a makeover. A makeover. But they have so much fun doing the makeover that they get fired and storm out of the department store laughing. And I think if you put those two things together, it really explains the whole trajectory. That is wonderful.

Now, I'm less familiar with MathNet. I ask you, did it make you want to be a mathematician? Did it make you good at math? Do you feel that maybe you didn't care about math so much before? Did it uncover a love of math or did it affirm an existing love of math? I think it affirmed and celebrated a love of math or did it affirm an existing love of math i think it affirmed and celebrated a love of math you love math love math to this day i'm looking at this there was math court math man the mathematics of love angled it so so matt and i in the 90s did not grow up

with square one on pbs because this was pbs and can I just say, before we move on to Miss Piggy and Joan Rivers, there is something about edutainment that is, like, the most politically interesting, impactful kind of entertainment that is probably also the hardest thing to write and generate and shoot and make interesting and entertaining. Like, edutainment, like,

there's almost something, like, inspiring to me where I'm like, oh, I would be totally happy and I bet completely fulfilled just working in that lane. Like, if I made edutainment, good edutainment, if I made that my life's mission,

I bet I would be the happiest version of myself. Yeah, it is just so hard to, the level of sophistication you're supposed to get when it's not for you. And we understand and we all understand, especially now that like, hey, there's something wrong if you are trying to write for an audience that you're not a part of, right? Whether it's like, I would never pitch a show about like black culture or I would never pitch a show about, I think I wouldn't even pitch a show about like black culture or i would never pitch a show about i think i wouldn't even pitch a show about like lesbian culture right i just i would feel uncomfortable trying to like embody that that doesn't seem right to me but adults pitch show about children's culture all the time we don't let children write them which is something i think the strike is all about

which is letting children letting kids work. Mini rooms. That's what the mini rooms are. Just tiny, tiny writers. Children. Very short men. Yeah, mini rooms. Very small people. It's got to stop. And it's got to stop.

They should be paid. Or be bigger. Yes, yes, yes. Matt and I have worked in this sector where through Story Pirates we were literally adapting. And listen,

it was like great stuff. But this is really interesting because i also think it's not super it doesn't always yield the best results when people try to write for an audience that they aspire towards either yeah you can sort of like smell that pretty easily and go i don't really care for this like i can tell that the people making this show are trying to like go up some sort of like tier or cast and like i don't think that's working well just inauthentic it's like something trying to be more sophisticated than is or something trying to be more political than the person writing it naturally is yeah so just to marry your two answers then because you

have this you know you're nodding towards this math net and we're talking about edutainment and then you're we're going to transition into the miss piggy joan rivers makeup moment of it all were you a sesame street child yes i was a sesame street child did you have mr wizard no so i think we had mr wizard what unfortunately happened around my age was barney really took over yeah and barney is like and this is i'm not disrespecting but barney was more just like a narrative about the kids and barney and it was i guess maybe it was teaching like moral lessons but sesame street was fun because it felt like a really fun educational program that was so disguised in the interesting characters and the fun dynamics that you didn't even realize you were learning. Whereas like, you know, Barney was just,

I think, trying to be like, oh, Selena Gomez helped Demi Lovato tie her shoe. They're friends. This is what friendship is. Barney taught you how to like hang out, I guess. Barney taught you how to chill. out, I guess. Barney taught you how to chill. It's actually real culture number seven. Barney taught you how to chill. Yeah, I feel like that is the difference. I think that's like the five-year difference because that was after.

Yeah, like I think I got the bottom of the barrel of like the 80s, like public television, those original studios where it's like, this is just an old social studies teacher in a house somewhere and we're just gonna shoot him showing people how ice melts i love that and like that's what i got and then barney's like i'm gonna fuck this whole economy yeah i'm gonna rock i'm you people don't understand how annoying this can be and work barney was you don't understand the sounds that kids are actually looking for 100 and barney

was so obsessed with being a brand barney was brand forward barn the barney brand was so inescapable yeah barney also was really big on like teaching you how to clean up after yourself grip get bent barney get bent but it's also like barney can't have its cake and eat it too because barney's like you should clean up after yourself but then also like in the back of my mind i feel like barney was trying to teach everybody about like making it in this world so that you don't have to clean up after yourself and you can pay somebody to do it i don't know where that's coming from but i feel that to be true yeah that makes a lot of sense i think that was that was the barney energy look i and i've always said this barney is hustle

culture and yes yes and a lot of people don't talk about it absolutely as was thomas the tank engine thomas the tank engine was hustle culture for sure sure so you know it was very important to to be a train and to do your job as a train if you didn't do your job as a train there were consequences right oh how interesting. Consequence culture. That's major. And there's something so cynical.

They're on tracks. Yeah, they sure are. At no point does, they are really, they are just, that's it. They can go forward

or they can go back. Yeah. Do you have any comment on when Sesame Street had to cut out Katy Perry because of her breasts. Do you have a comment on that? I'm sorry. I'm not aware of that. I don't. Well, the most

famous episode of Sesame Street no one ever saw was when Katy Perry guested on Sesame Street. And even though she was wearing a full shirt, everyone said, we can't have this. Her boobs are too big. She can't be on Sesame Street. And they never shared the episode. But you can watch it on YouTube, I guess. I think she sang like a silly

version of Hot and Cold. It seems like there's a digital fix. Yeah. Back then, maybe not. I think in 2010, we didn't have that technology. Well, they could have just put in like a bush. You know, like a little plant or something.

She could have been singing behind a bush. But by the way no one should feel bad for katie perry in the end the ending to her story is that she went to the coronation and no one else did like the people who called in to complain did not and even before that she's done pretty well i think so well she's a huge star katie perry yeah everybody knows her stuff's all over the place can i say before we before we move into the Miss Piggy of it all, I did, I've written down one word on a piece of paper and it's the word weird.

Because when you said earlier that you feel like smart is a bad word, dumb is a bad word, weird is a bad word, I'm going to push back on weird. I think it's actually really fun to say about someone, she's weird.

Or like, how is that person? Like, I've never met them. Weird. And I love having fun with words. And I think we all do. I think weird and crazy and dumb. Crazy is problematic. Crazy is not great, yeah.

Yes, so crazy has issues beyond what actually I understood the reason to stop saying crazy and I thought it was a good reason. But it didn't persuade you. Well, what persuaded me that it wasn't just good for that reason alone. Right? Like, yes, I understand why I could be considered

ableist. And I would say, you know what I would say? Intellectually, I was, my heart wasn't in it. And I think say, you know what I would say? Intellectually, my heart wasn't in it. And I think what got me all the way there was not just the way in which it was sort of using this sort of word about mental health in a pejorative way. It's that so often it is just laziness to avoid actually, and it's two people assuming they both know what they mean by crazy, but they don't. It's just a stand-in for a bunch of different things. And actually forcing yourself to find more specific ways to talk about why

you're bothered leads to saying something better. That's interesting. And so you feel the same way about weird where it's a stand-in for something else but i think i think you're sort of your hang ups about these words or i think it's kind of tied to them mostly being monosyllabic with the exception of crazy weird smart dumb let's say dumb let's great i just use the word great and i don't feel awesome about it i don't feel great about it. So I feel like, is that it? Are we creating some sort of bias towards multi-syllabic words? Because I don't always think that they're just... I don't want to be a part of that. I don't want to do that.

What I've had to walk back for the last several years because when I listen back to myself from years ago, I go, why am I throwing all these disgusting SAT words around? That's so annoying. It's Jejeune. It's Jejeune. It's Jejeune. And I feel like sometimes

dumb, weird, smart, sometimes those are okay. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree with that. I'm not the word police. No, you are not the word police. I'm not the word police. But this is the word police. I'm not the word police. But this is the words episode.

And actually the title of that's what they mean by minimum staffing. Like tiny people with John Lovett. Words, words, words. Yeah, that's great. I was going to say the words. Let's see if we beat it. I like words, words, words. Let's see if we beat it.

So far, words, words, words. John isn't happy with it. Here's the thing. We have it. We're not allowed to do this. We're on the guild. We can't beat something it. We have it. We're not allowed to do this. We're on the guild. We can't beat something while we're on strike.

Do you have a statement of support for the guild? Because that's someone that a lot of people look up to. And make different ones for West and East. Look, I think I think that

No, we're in trouble. I'm very supportive of the writers. I hope they get what they want. And, you know, I'm a big supporter of not letting computers write scripts. I don't think they'll do a very good job. I think 100% of the tweets by the writers are good and none of them are over the top.

And I think anyone who's saying that doesn't support the writers. And all the people secretly, all the people who correctly support the writers in this strike, but then also have little side texts about the tweets that they think are the most ridiculous, I consider that being a scab

and that needs to stop. Wow. That actually that i think people are going to change their behavior now i really do so miss piggy and uh joan rivers when they when they played with makeup together what was that the guy was it the joy was it the joy and the fun they were having and what was obviously sort of a you moment on set. It's that it starts with Miss Piggy. She's at a low. Yeah. I believe she's just been rejected by Kermit in some way.

Which was insane. I mean, the amount of times that he treated her like shit. I think because he's insecure and you know it's small. Ugh, yeah. Kermit is not a good guy. No. He's a narcissist. He plays the banjo?

Cool. Whatever. It's ridiculous. But she comes in, she's so beside herself, and they slowly, Joan Rivers starts giving her this makeover, and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger until they're, the other thing that I didn't know what it was, but it was it

features more prominently in children's cartoon like quicksand but it's the the makeup poof where you poof someone's face with i guess foundation or just powder and it was like just this big poof and you just get poof poof poofed yeah cartoons would always do that to each other for makeup like if if bugs bunny was putting makeup on el Fudd, it would be a big poof. And it had that. And then the snooty manager comes over and he's disgusted by this display, but they're having such a good time, they don't care.

And he says, you're both fired. And then they, you know, Joan Rivers basically mimics the Muppet style laugh, which is like the head back, mouth open, that, which is the best. And they just laugh their ways out of the store. 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10. Not until the film Babylon was there.

Oh my God. Was there an anti-retail scene? Was there a scene that starts from zero and ends at a hundred? That's what I would say. Wait, what scene in Babylon are you talking about? The elephant? Every scene in the first two hours.

Yeah. It's pretty, pretty weird. Pretty weird. In what way did this contribute to the trajectory? I just, I just have Miss Piggy energy. I just do.

Yeah. You do? You're violent? I just do. You do? You know? You're violent? Abusive. Well, Miss Piggy's a violent woman. She often will say, Hi-yo!

Violent. Yeah, that's why I do that. I do that when someone tries to steal my purse. On this podcast, there is never an instance where Miss Piggy says, Hi-yo! that I'm not laughing it's till the cows draw she also miss piggy i believe also chases down a purse snatcher in muppets take manhattan

and i believe she does i believe she does a hi-yah i hope would hope amazing she's very declared she's always kicking people out too like i think in muppets christmas carol she tells michael caine we know when scrooge wakes up the next morning on christmas morning and goes to cratchit's house she goes like she is very like she's very she's there to be like scrooge is not allowed here which the only character in that movie by the way in that story in that reimagined story who's like fuck you scrooge get out of my house yes miss piggy hold on a second does lauren know you have miss piggy um i haven't i haven't pitched myself to do a miss piggy but i'm waiting for the right that might be the next moment for you i may be but i think look me saying hi ya and asian oh god i think we're overthinking it weird you're weird weird i'm smart anyway smart and weird hey i think you're both smart

i think you're both smart weird and crazy smart weird and crazy is the title of the app i'm sorry that's what it is and smart weird and crazy because they're more descriptive than words words words because they actually are words. Smart, weird, and crazy with John Lovett. And that's the title of the episode. And that's exciting.

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Do you have any thoughts on current culture that you are dying to get out there? Like, what's the shows that you're consuming? I'm assuming you're a succession person. I am a succession person, and I'll just say it. I love it. Yeah. I think it's good. I think it's smart. I think it's well-written. I'll just say it is a great sort of phrase, too.

Anyway, keep going. I'll just say it. I'll just say it. I love it. You think Sarah Snook is good? Yeah, I do. I'll say it. I think Sarah Snook is good. I like that none of the American accents are right. And that's okay because they're from another

layer of society where maybe they are wrong up there. Maybe they don't sound like us up there where they are. I don't know if you listen to the Succession podcast with Kara Swisher that she hosts, but she was talking to Brian Cox and he said that he was irate during the first

season when like episodes and episodes in he realized that the character was actually from scotland and he thought he had thought that they decided against that like he he was like oh the character is not from scotland that's not part of the history i'm playing that's not the character i'm playing and then he saw literally a document that was printed out as a prop that i think stated logan roy's birthplace as scotland and he in the podcast episode i don't know i i can't necessarily find where brian cox's sense of humor starts and ends because it all is kind of delivered in this brian coxian way where it's the kind of person that's in your life which is a person that i fear which is what you think you're kidding because you are and then all of a

sudden they reveal that they're no longer kidding and like it's just people that that have like there's an absence of a wink or the um absence of putting effort into letting you know we are changing course or actually no, but seriously, I really mean this. He, I don't know. I can't find where it starts and ends with him. I don't know what he's kidding about. So he could legitimately be on this podcast episode, which was the third episode, which of course followed the episode where his character dies. But he is seeming upset, but also it's like he could be kidding,

but also I would not want to be the person around. Yeah, probably not. He also strikes me as someone where he has a sense of humor, but you know that even if you were just at your absolute best and you were firing in all cylinders, only half would land. You'd be doing a lot of, I'm just kidding. You'd be saying, I'm just

kidding a lot. And that obviously stinks. It stinks. Here's my thought, is that he seems to be someone who rails against earnestness, like the way he hates Jeremy Strong's style. But then he will also be earnest himself all the time. Does that make sense?

I feel like there's no irony in any expression that he sort of puts out also like i think that's something that we forget about actors in general when we call themselves important and self-serious is that they have to have a sense of play because that is intrinsic and inherent to even wanting to act in the first place like actors without a sense of play i don't understand that nor have i really met oh wow bowen is smiling a smile nothing it makes me think of patty patty years and who, like, kind of overuses that phrase in, like, a deliberate way. Sense of play? A sense of play. I mean, there's, like, she's, like, posted Instagram post where she's, like, what was great about

this set was that there was really a sense of play. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, it is funny, but I'm saying is, like, the set of Succession feels like it would be a weird one because you it feels like the methods there are all very different you know what i mean it's like you have brian cox fully dragging jeremy strong like in the press and kieran cull can kind of doing the same thing

being like yeah it's annoying when he wants to not rehearse first of all i have two points i want to make point number one i think it's cool matt but you're that you approach this moment by saying i'm just not sure i respect brian cox's approach to acting no it's not that's not what i said at all i what i'm saying is that i think that people his sense of humor interpret his his sense of humor and his like state of being as being like rigid or being like sort of like but brian cox has to be he has to have a sense of humor he's on succession he's he's you look at his career he's done a ton he's also very funny even if maybe in the moment he's not meaning to be funny or comedic purely in nature but like this idea that even like jeremy strong takes himself so seriously all the time like can't be true because like you have to have that curiosity and that sense of imagination and

yes play drag me patty harrison to even want to do this no no no no no it's not a drag yeah i really quickly i think i'm ready to share the story on the pod share it as a way of like um supporting the idea that jeremy strong actually is like has a sense of play and irony okay and matt's heard the story before i think but i've been telling it and I've been, I've been really literally dining out on the story for a while now. And this is a public debut. This is its public debut. I'm so I'm very excited.

So the most recent season of Nora from Queens shot at the same studio as the most recent as this season of Succession. The Nora from Queens production office was pretty close to the Succession stages in their production office. And as we famously know, Jeremy Strong is the method actor. And at one point,

at one point, Jeremy walks into the Nora from Queens production office and says, excuse me, do you know where the bathroom is? point, Jeremy walks into the North and Queens production office and says, excuse me, do you know where the bathroom is? And then someone in the office was like, yeah, it's just down the hall to the left. He goes, thank you so much. He leaves. Matt, you've heard this story before, right? No, I don't think I have.

You haven't? Oh my god. You've been dining out with other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Likely story. Likely story. So Jeremy leaves. Ten minutes pass and then a pa from succession comes into the office and goes hi was jeremy just in here and they were like yeah he was he he went to the bathroom and then they go this pa goes did he ask where it was did he come here to ask you where the bathroom was and they were like yeah why and the pa says he has a scene today where he has to ask someone where the bathroom is you're kidding and i think

that is method to such a such a ridiculous degree that like he must be like in on the joke. Yeah, he must be giggling inside internally a little bit. I love that. I am glad. Me too. I just love that there's somebody who's just like, I need to later ask someone to go to the bathroom. I need to fully internalize and understand the experience.

I can't access that. I can't access it. So I'm going to drink a gallon of Gatorade and then go to an unfamiliar part of this lot and i'm gonna use that experience that i can draw on it later i fucking love that the other thing too like so like all of these actors they that are like doing a serious, like I, whatever, Kendall is a leading man,

whatever, but like, there'll be a billboard on sunset for some movie where a handsome male movie star will play a soldier. And this is a person who has, you know their life extends from like creation organic to to you know it's like they live a very small and fancy life yeah and then they are going to take on the persona of a member of the military and do things like, follow me, gents. And like, just do gun stuff and military man bravado stuff.

Behaviors. And I do not, I think if you're doing something like that, there has to be an ability to shut off the sense of, like, you can't have a sense of play, actually. And for that day, you have to be completely serious. You have to believe, you have to be completely serious. You have to believe you have to be so earnest because if even a tiny crack of how ridiculous this is got in, don't you think it would just,

it would, the whole thing would melt like cotton candy. Like you just to do that requires such a level of belief and commitment. Like it seems impossible. Having not been in that situation, I feel like that you must, you must be right. So when I was a speechwriter, Jeremy Strong played a speechwriter in Lincoln.

Oh! And basically years and years ago, he reached out through someone and I got lunch with him and he just asked me a lot of questions about speechwriting. And like very specific, like, what did you feel? What did you think? What is this like? What's your reaction to this? And I completely forgot about it. I just like forgot that it ever happened. And then I saw Lincoln and he has a part in Lincoln. I didn't even remember. I wouldn't even have remembered his name. It just would have been like, oh, that actor who reached out about being in Lincoln. And then years later, when that New Yorker story came out was said that like, you know, Jeremy Strong has this method approach to acting. And I was like, oh, my God, I was a part of his process.

Wow. For Lincoln. Wow. He was perfectly nice. Did you meet up with him for lunch or something? Yes, I got lunch. And when the article. Mendocino Farms.

Did you go to Mendocino? Did you go to Creation Organic? This was in D.C. Catholic Gravitas. This was back when I was a teacher. This was back. This was a D.C. back when I was in Detroit. This was a DC lunch spot. Maybe it might've been a founding farmers.

Just for one example that it could have been. It's the only restaurant we do. I'll tell you something about founding farmers. Okay. And here's what I'll say. Here's what I'll say. Uh-oh. They took a lot of pride in saying

that their building was LEED green certified. Always fucking stuffy in there. It's like, it's like, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? This is what it means. This is the future.

It was a glass building. It was like, it was like, let's get the air moving. Yeah. Don't tell me you're the future and that it's all great. And then, and then everyone's going to think that this is what it is.

The future is stuffy and the future is not stuffy. It is what it is. The future is stuffy. And the future is not stuffy. It can't be. It might be stuffy. It might be a little stuffy. The future might be a little bit. Look, hey, a lot of good stuff coming down the pike. Totally excited about a lot of it. But the future might just be a little.

It's actually real culture number 60. The future might be a little stuffy. Like Brian Cox. Like Brian Cox. I think we're getting really sort of spirited right now. I think all three of us are ready to like really get polemic about something and launch. What do you say? Okay.

It feels right. It feels right. The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy.

What? You've told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one

of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations. I was a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom, and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the s**t we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no

problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. This is a moment in time because it's the I Don't Think So Honey segment of the John Lovett episode of Las Coturistas,

and this is sure to be fire. So I Don't Think So Honey is a 60 second segment that we do on this podcast where we take a minute, i.e. 60 seconds to rail against something in culture that needs to be dragged. I am going to keep it on Succession. I actually have a thing about Succession that is an unpopular opinion

and I'm just going to go for it. Okay, this is Matt Rogers' I Don't Think So Honey about Succession. This is Matt Rogers' I Don't Think So Honey about Succession. His time starts now. I Don't Think So Honey, Cousin Greg. I think this is television's best current show.

I Don't Think So Honey, Cousin Greg. I think it's one bit and I think that it is funny, but I'm waiting for the Cousin Greg of it all to pay off. And I Don't Think so honey that it will because

isn't that antithetical to the whole cousin greg thing you know what i mean i understand like his relationship to them is like mandatory and arbitrary and like he is the comedic foil but like i want to see this pay off in a big way and if it doesn't i don't think so honey i almost want to see cousin greg win the whole thing or for cousin greg to reveal that quote-unquote cousin greg is like a long con because and it's nothing to do with nicholas braun i just don't think so honey the cousin greg of it all i'm just waiting for it to become more dynamic than it is right now it's a bit in a brilliant show where there's a lot of complexity and it feels like there's not a lot there that's all i'll say i don't think think so, honey. And that's one minute.

Wow, this is interesting. I agree. Anytime I see him with Tom, I'm like, get Greg with someone else. Let's see another permutation of characters. You want to know what it is? It's in a show where the characters are so real and I really feel like I

understand all the shades. I just don't believe he's that dumb. Tonally, it's the only thing about the show where I'm not landing anywhere. Me personally. If I'm to compare it to Mad Men, that's what makes Mad Men a little

superior for me if I'm to compare the two, is that I feel like there was not a false step in that. I need to speak on this. That's fine. The floor is yours. Speak, speak, speak. Succession to me is actually making up for...

So Mad Men by the end, it was just like, listen, I get it. They're on a journey. Put Peggy and Don in a fucking room together. Why are they at different agencies? This is a TV show. Get them together. And with Succession, at least, I agree that we need, like, there's, like,

you want to see great, like, we've seen a lot of Jerry and George. Show me George and Elaine, you know? Show me, you know, like, let's get some pairings going on. I totally agree. But I'm glad that they're keeping them together because in Mad Men it was so frustrating by the end because it was, like,

a Don Peggy episode. A two-hander. The suitcase. Perfect. Perfect example. Perfect example. Perfect example and I'm always saying that. And I'm always saying that is something I'm always saying. End of thought.

I was going to say the reason it's really pronounced this season that Greg doesn't tonally really working for me because I think Tom is less of a comedic foil to the siblings. Like Tom's not as funny as he was in prior seasons for like perfectly valid reasons. And so I think a lot of the comedy is landing on Greg, but I think this is just coming out of like Logan dying.

Maybe, I don't know. Yeah. Well, I mean, one of the funniest things that's happened all season is Tom dragging greg for the date that he brought i mean the ludicrously capacious bag so it's like that maybe maybe that's why we're seeing so much of it or it's not evolving necessarily is because that is the excuse for tom to be the funny character

still and then you know it almost feels like now that we're at the part of the show where we have the promise of the premise which is the succession is upon us maybe that sort of just focuses the narrative so on the three of them that there's not as much opportunity for cousin greg to be colliding with them that much or for them to be focusing on his dynamics with anyone but tom because that's just what's realistic and i also would say in terms of the madman of it all it's like i actually disagree i think peggy quitting is actually all the more powerful knowing that they really no longer had a relationship after that. That's what keeps me going back to that episode where she takes a step towards him in his office

and holds her hand out. And then he kisses her hand and she says, don't be a stranger. And she leaves. That really was kind of the end for them. And I think that's strengthened when you look at the series as a whole, because really left so i get what you're saying in terms of what we want for the characters in terms of our viewing experience but to me it was like they were following through with what they had decided to do in a realistic way whereas maybe that's what's holding cousin greg back in this season literally for the same reason which is not working as well for me i just want to say that it wasn't until what you just said that I put the

pieces together and realized that they're doing a succession. Oh, yeah. It's a show about succession. Oh, the promise of the premise. The promise of the premise, which Bowen smiled the same way. When you say promise of the premise, it really gets a reaction.

Because Matt recently on a project that we can no longer work on as long as the strike is happening he used it to great effect and in a way that was actually quite helpful promise of the yeah well it's actually it's actually a sude green thing but i thought that it's a perfect way to say i mean the promise of the premise the premise of succession is he's going to die then he'll pass the company on, which is again, what, so this is a very like, I think mom thing to say,

like my mom, when he died on Succession in that third episode, there was like a contingency of people. And my mom was one of them who was like, well, you know, we never saw the body. I don't think he's dead.

I don't think he's dead. You know, we didn't see it. I'm like, this isn't like the mom. It's not lost. You know, it's't see it I'm like this isn't like V mom it's not lost you know it's not like this isn't like mid-aughts network television

where it's like they come back from the life it's not revenge like he's dead the 4400 yeah it's certainly not the 4400 it never will be but that was what was so funny to me is I was just like no like if you really think about this show, this needed to happen early

in this last season because now we really need to see it come to a head. The promise of the premise. There will be a succession. Yeah. Very good. Very good.

This just makes me want to watch The Suitcase. Oh, maybe we will, Bo. Maybe we will. All right. This is Bo and Yang's I Don't Think So, Honey. Are you ready, Bo?

I'm ready. His time will begin now. I Don't Think So, Honey. Are you ready, Bo? I'm ready. His time will begin now. I Don't Think So, Honey, me becoming emotionally invested in ads for phone video games where it's always violence being inflicted upon a woman and or her child. Have you seen these ads

where it's like for an iPhone game where like the person's house is flooded or the person's kitchen is on fire. what's the right tool that you should use is it the fire hydrant is it the comb and naturally you pick the fire hydrant am i crazy these are phonemes that like we've all the algorithm serves to all of us right okay gardenscapes producer becca is saying gardenscapes yes it's always about a woman and her child being out of a house, basically. And it's a premise that kind of takes you out of the world of the game a little bit, right?

You snap back to reality. Oh, there goes gravity. I want my games to be... I want to play Outer Rims and not be reminded that there is a housing crisis in our country. And that's one minute. I think Outer Rims is a different game. I know. Outer Rims is a different game. I know. Outer Rims is a very special game.

Outer Rims is only fans. I'm just saying, I'm using Outer Rims as a perfect example to illustrate that any video game should not be so distressing that I witness a young mother, a new mother having to deal with a house flood. And that's what all these games are about.

I don't like that at all. Is Outer Rims a game that actually exists or is it, are you referring to what I said about Outer Wilds? Outer Wilds. I meant to say Outer Wilds. I wasn't sure if it was, yeah, you know,

I just, that's okay. That's, that's what I thought was happening. You know what the Outer Rims is, Bowen? It's a cocktail at Oga's Cant okay that's you know what the Outer Rims is Bowen it's a cocktail at Oga's Cantina

that we just had in the Galaxies we were just in Disney World and there's a drink pre-strike it's a tequila pre-strike

we don't support the studios there's a drink called the Outer Rim and that's what he's thinking of and every guy there will ask you

do you know where the Outer Rim is and we're like okay no don't ask us that you want to get an Outer rim and then have a drink you know what i'm saying depends daddy how big's your blaster oh you a gunner or a navigator

in the cockpit hun tell me darling how you fly the falcon the navigator is the bottom i guess you are now when you're bottoming you are sort of like taking the joystick as it were there is a ride so i don't know have you you been to Star Wars Galaxy's Edge? Are you a Star Wars person? I'm a Star Wars person. I haven't been to Galaxy's Edge. So when you get on the Millennium Falcon ride, they look at you and you're going to get put in the cockpit. And then the person who's running the shit looks to you and says, my top two are pilots.

My second two are gunners. In the back, y'all are the navigators. And when they look at you and they say you're a gunner, you do feel like a top. Yeah, that's cool. No, that's a powerful feeling. That's a powerful feeling. Okay.

And Bowen and I were actually the pilots. Remember when we flew the ship, Bow? We didn't do good. We were pretty bad. But okay, producer becca is making me feel like i'm not sorry uh crazy you are not crazy said producer becca you're not crazy i know the word is non grata right now but i think that this game is popping up the ads for these kinds of games are popping up everywhere and just look out for them and i might have like

uttered that into your algorithms and and I'm sorry for that. Yeah, now I bet it will happen, and I will tell you when it does. Yeah, you get a lot of ads for these sort of games where you have to shoot a bullet, and it bounces and bounces, and then hits the wrong person. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, yes, yes. It's that. And I don't think those games are real, by the way.

They are. I think these games are... Well, I think you download them, and then the game itself is different than what they're advertising a lot of the time. Yes. Often of lesser graphical quality. Yeah. Not as fun.

There's no promise of the promise delivered. Mm-hmm. Mm. There you go. Okay. I think... This is time. It's time for John Lovitz.

I don't think so. I'll time you. This is... Are you ready? Wait, I'm going to take a sip of water. Okay. Yeah, look, we're great. It's going for John Lovitz. I don't think so, honey. I'll time you. This is... Are you ready? Wait, I'm going to take a sip of water. Okay. Yeah, look, we're great. It's going to be good.

This is John Lovitz. It's so right. This is John Lovitz. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Book blurbs. Oh.

What are we doing here? What are we doing here? First of all, no one's read these fucking books. No one has read them. These quotes are not real. I couldn't put down this unforgettable novel. It was propulsive and insightful. People don't talk that way. They only write that way when they're writing book blurbs. Also, it feels a little desperate, books. A message to books, the message being show some confidence. All right?

Oh, my God. We are living in a post-Nanette world. Okay? I don't know what that means. The point is when capitalism smells fear, it bucks the writer. Books, we understand that the deck is stacked against you. A quote from Jake Tapper isn't going to save books. No.

We got to do better. We have to think bigger. Books, blurbs, I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. Wow. Do they move units? I think it depends. Does anyone know what these things are doing?

Are people at the airport turning them over and saying, I wasn't going to buy this book, but now I am because Mindy Kaling says it's a fun read. I was just going to say, my name is going to be Mindy Kaling, my pulp. Yeah. I don't know to buy this book, but now I am because Mindy Kaling says it's a fun read. My name is going to be Mindy Kaling, my poll. I don't know. It's hard to say. I don't know. I guess it would depend on the person. If I flipped it over and it was a rave from Tinsley Mortimer,

I'd be like, well, huh? But when it's someone like Mindy Kaling, who you get the sense does a lot of these. What? Oh, my God. I don't know why I even said any of that. Have you requested blurbs? Have you requested blurbs, though, yourself?

When I've had to written a book? Well, I mean, why don't you write a book? Impossible. When you write a book, let's say you have one written, it's coming out. Mm-hmm. If your publisher's like,

we have to get blurbs for this, John. Of course. Okay. Will you ask us? Sure. Yeah, probably. I'll ask one of you, at least. Well, I know who's getting cut. It'll be joint. It'll be joint. It'll be by...

Yes, it'll be both of you. It'll say MR, I loved this book. B-Y, I agree. I thought it was incredible. Isn't he a smart, funny, kind of weird guy? Oh my god. Oh my goodness. Have you had a nice time on this

episode? I would say it was a little house forward, but other than that... House forward? Are you feeling a little shy? Are you feeling in the post-coital that maybe you shouldn't have talked about the house that much? It's a lot of house time. You know what I'm excited about? The group chat after this. I'm going to text you both on the thread. Oh, really? It's a lot of house time. You know what I'm excited about? The group chat after this.

I'm going to text you both on the thread. Oh, really? That's exciting. I can tell that you're really happy about it. By the way, you smiled and looked askance. Well, I was like, when someone says, oh, group text,

I immediately think, oh, there's a group chat where I'm being spoken of. No, no, no, no. You know what I'm saying? You mustn't think that way. You mustn't think this way. You mustn't think that way. I mustn't think this way. You mustn't think that way.

I think whenever someone's mentioning a group chat in your presence, that's an invitation. And that feels really nice. And that's a good feeling. That's a really warm and good feeling. That's what this is, too. Stay tuned, because this text is coming. Listen, the podcasts

are Love It and Leave It. And Love It and Leave It the podcasts are Love It and Leave It and Father America. Love It and Leave It. What? Love It or Leave It. I said. Did I say Love It and Leave It? You said Love It and Leave It.

You did. Love It or Leave It. They'll find it. The searching will do its thing. You just type in the man's name and it's a treasure trove. Let's just say that. He'll have a book coming out sometime.

Yeah, that's a shame if you don't write a book. Maybe. Maybe. We'll see. Hey, watch this space. Yeah, that's a shame if you don't write a book. Maybe. Maybe. We'll see. Hey, watch this space. Oh, that's a good one too. Watch this space. Watch this space.

I think we scooped something. And we're going on tour. Love it or leave it, it's going on tour. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Okay. Coming to a city near you. Coming to a city near you, the stage will have a rug and a couch on it.

Mm-hmm. 100%. Very exciting. Yeah. Maybe like a plush chair. You know, a table for water. couch on it. Mm-hmm. Very exciting. Yeah. Maybe like a plush chair, you know, a table for water. I love it. If I'm in the audience

and I'm looking at that on stage, I'm comfortable. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know you're in for a good time. You know you're in for a good time.

Listen, this has been so fun. We do end every episode with a song. And even though you feel you have musical knowledge that is like limited, I want you to pick the song that we sing on the way out

you want me to pick the song that you sing just like any song and we'll sing it and that'll be the last thing that's heard on your episode of Lost Culture East before you return Exile by Taylor I don't know it that well

so many times So many times. So many times. Wait, oh my God, Taylor. Taylor. Bye. Bye. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll.

This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.

I'm Sheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of

Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.