Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Spooky, Kooky, Crazy" (w/ Taylor Trensch)

Episode Date: November 6, 2019

Taylor Trensch joins Matt and Bowen to discuss Broadway, getting off twitter, Jennifer Lopez's acting legacy, Matt and Bowen's Pop Roulette days, and more!MERCH! MERCH! GET YOUR LAS CULTURISTAS MERCH!https://www.teepublic.com/stores/las-culturistasSUBSCRIBE ON APPLE PODCASTS TODAY!CONNECT W/ LAS CULTURISTAS ON FACEBOOK & TWITTER for the best in "I Don't Think So, Honey" action, updates on live shows, conversations with the Las Culturistas community, and behind-the scenes photos/videos:www.facebook.com/lasculturistastwitter.com/lasculturistasLAS CULTURISTAS IS A FOREVER DOG PODCAST. LAS CULTURISTAS IS PRODUCED BY EMMA FOLEY.http://foreverdogproductions.com/fdpn/podcasts/las-culturistas/ Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We will make you famous. And famous is better than alive. Forever Dog Look, Matt. Where? Oh, I see. Bowen, look over there. Is that culture? Dog! Look, man. Where? Oh, I see. Wow.

Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong.

Las Culturistas calling. And guess what? A joke has been said this morning that I think is funny. Who said this? Our guest has made a joke. And I have to say the joke now. So. Recite.

Famously, Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabello, an item, or putting in quotes. As of September 12th, 2019, the day of this recording, they are together. As of this day, they are together. Yes. Whether this is in a real way or a Hollywood way. Uh-huh. Which, you know what happens? People, they're trotted out there

and we're just too accepted we don't know though if the love is real but they have decided to dip their foot

into some comedy yes and you've seen the Instagram video yeah and you and I have a fundamental disagreement on this you think it's them

like we do many things and that's healthy yes but you think it's them trolling I think it's I don't know what I think about it but when I saw it I was like I respect this in fact I commented that I respected it you commented that you think it's them trolling I think it's I don't know what I think about it but when I saw it I was like I respect this

in fact I commented that I respected it you commented that you respected it and then you said that it's trolling in a way that is very aware that everyone knows that Sean is gay but I said my thing is that I think it's I think it's they think that they're being funny and clever

but they're still trying to convince people that they're together and that Sean's straight. I honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. Because when I watched that VMA performance, I was like, oh, that's a gay guy and his best girlfriend. Yeah, but I'm also like- Rubbing noses. Can I also just, I think there's a third camp here. Uh-oh.

Where I don't care. I think he's I think he's I think he's okay I don't know wow okay so you're saying that you're above this whole conversation and not to be like nihilistic and be like it doesn't matter nothing matters but I'm saying like I I don't have truly a strong opinion on his sexuality I would say this this is how I feel about the show well first let me say what the joke was yeah yeah this is why we got into this. Because first and foremost, it's a comedy podcast. It's a comedy podcast.

We focus on the comedy, not dissecting people's sexuality. It's just not what we focus on. But go ahead. I pulled open the video. Yeah. And it's the video. It shows the two of them. And our guest said, the other two.

That's so funny. And we love that. We love that. And so basically, my opinion on the whole thing is I think people should leave Shawn Mendes largely alone. Like, I don't like when people like, you know what bothered me was like when they were all like cancel Shawn

Mendes for not being true to himself, bitch. No, because it's like, he's, you know what he is open about his like debilitating anxiety and you writing hashtag Shawn Mendes is over party. Can't be good for that so it's like

if you want to make a joke about sean mendez and camilla cabello make your jokes whatever but don't attack the people also i've i've been on too many i've been in too many different cities and opened up my tinder and all these cities to see too many too many gays like pose at the meet and greets with sean and like in their faggiest attire and Sean just looks happy. Happy as a damn clown. Sean is just so welcoming and warm, it seems.

He's not homophobic for God's sake. I mean, that's the thing. When there was a hashtag to cancel him, I'm like, truly why? And then I remembered, oh yeah, because gay men are so cruel to each other we become our own bullies this was an experience i had in the college oh so when i went to the

college yes i actually approached my dorm mates yes and i i had a big smile on my face when i was doing so uh-huh and i would walk room to room trying to make connections and friends. And it was most difficult. With the gays. With the gay men. The out gay men, when you were closeted, it, or they perceive you as closeted, the cruelty. That's closeted.

Closeted? You said closeted, my man. Front runner for title of that. Closeted. I love it. Yeah, it's actually rule of culture number 11. When I was in college, I was clositive. But my thing is like, wow, wow, wow. The cruelty of it all. I know. The cruelty that that has.

The meanness that that has. The disrespect that that has. The toxicity that that has. The entitilized homophobia that that has. And to be seeing it now. I know. In 2019, the year of our Lord. Yeah.

It's very disenchanting. It's so disenchanting. But you know who is so enchanting? I've been enchanted. Our guest. I was enchanted to meet him. I was enchanted to meet him. The other Taylor.

The other Taylor. The other Taylor. He walked down the street to the studio. The other Taylor. The other Taylor. The other Taylor. He walked down the street to the studio. Mm-hmm. Book in hand. Clutching the book. And I clutched my pearls.

And you clutched your pearls. And I've been telling you to read this damn book, Trick Mirror, Gia Tolentino. Yes. I'm only halfway through, but it's truly rocked my world.

And I don't trust anybody. I don't trust the internet. I don't trust the vectors. I don't trust the vectors by which we have been deceived through the internet. And our guest is wagging his finger. Okay, let's go through the credits. Well, he may not trust it anymore as a result of reading the book. I don't know what his mind state

was before. Mind state. Mind state. I want to get into his perspective on this. And, oh my god, the credits. Oh, bitch. Bitch. Matilda. Hello, Do my God, the credits. Oh, bitch. Bitch. Matilda. Hello, Dolly. We got a Bach in the studio.

We got a Bach in the studio. Dear Evan Hansen. Have we ever had a Bach in the studio? I don't think so. I don't think we have. Dear Evan Hansen, bitch. I'm sorry. I just want to

just get this out of the way before we bring him in. I think out of all the roles in Wicked, I would be a Bach, I think. You would. Superbons, I'm glad I'm heartless. I'll be heartless killing her.

Do you know what I think is the good role in Wicked? Bach. Nessa. Nessa. Yeah. I think Nessa Rose is the good role in Wicked, and I think it is erasure that they don't have Wicked Witch of the East on the soundtrack. And I know I'm not alone.

I know that I'm not the only one to ever say this but I will say it thank you for amplifying those voices we have to because guess who gets a lot of the attention in Wicked Bach and Bach it's like can you imagine if the breakout role

in Wicked was Bach well this bitch broke out as Bach but I think he would even attest that after every show, you know, it was about Elphaba. Yeah, but for some boys, it's about Bach. I have to ask him about

who his Elphaba was because I will gag. Okay, we just need to bring him into this conversation. I love him so much. And a funny bitch. And a funny ass bitch. Sometimes you can turn a tweet

and you say, ha ha, ha ha. Ooh, ooh, bitch. Sometimes you can turn a tweet and you say, ha ha! Ha ha! Now please welcome into your ears Shawn Mendes! Stop! No! Welcome to your ears Taylor Trench! Hi Taylor! I was hoping when you

started the transition with Disenchanted, or you know who we are enchanted with, I was hoping you'd say Amy Adams! Amy Adams! I was enchanted by Amy in that film. Oh oh but i don't like that they're making the title disenchanted of the sequel what yeah oh is that true that's the title for the sequel oh there's a sequel yep patrick dempsey has been making the rounds wow i know what will happen in this because you know famously at the end, famous iconic Elphaba, Idina Menzel,

becomes a cartoon. It becomes a cartoon. Yeah. But of course. And has remained so for all of those years. I loved the movie until she decided to go,

it's like, remember the movie Pleasantville? I would fuck James Marston in the cartoon land, absolutely. Okay, but Pleasantville? Pleasantville at the end where Reese Witherspoon

decides to just live in that world. Right, right, right. It's like, what? Why would you you wouldn't do that she stays in black and white she stays in black and white

because she wants to like go to college it's like girl go to a community college yeah 100% and get cover vocational school vocational school

there are so many opportunities that is classist that's elitist it's classist it's elitist of Reese Witherspoon to say I'm gonna stay in this sorry

but very white and black. Pleasantville. Pleasantville. I don't know. I mean. And then we have Idina being a cartoon forever. People are going to be looking at her.

Doesn't she have like work obligations? I would follow James Marston into a sewer in Times Square. And I have. And you have. And you have. And Taylor has. Wow. Who knows what that knows I think the movie

is going to be Amy being jaded in New York and wanting to go back to the cartoon world maybe that might be it because getting your dreams is strange

but it seems a little well complicated there's a kind of a sort of cost I don't know any of these words anymore I was like what is this from

what is this wait okay in our cursory research review I didn't know you did shit in Dylan know any of these words anymore. I was like, what is this from? Wait, okay. In our cursory research review, I didn't know you did shit in Dillon. Colorado. Yeah, of course. Alright, you're a Colorado pal. What's your assessment of Colorado now that you're

away from it? It was beautiful. I love Colorado. Dillon's fun. Dillon's Gorge. I ate so many like eggplant parm subs. That was like my main memory of Dillon, Colorado. It was gorge. Doing theater at 12,000 feet. Yeah, for sure.

And in rep, we did like five shows and every, like you would rotate every night. So like one night you're doing cabaret, the next little shop of horrors, the next Rocky Horror. Oh, that's fun. Is that crazy making or fun? It was fun until like halfway through the camp

or halfway through the summer, we then had to become counselors for children. And I staged and choreographed a production of 101 Dalmatians. And the girl who played Cruella, like look out for her because she nailed my beautiful coat. Wow.

Like her big number. But anyway, like not what I thought we all had to be counselors, but it turned out you could opt out. And so most of the actors opted out. And so I was responsible for like 100 nine-year-olds. And you opted in? You were like, I'm going to be noble here and be a counselor?

Well, I wouldn't have if I had known it was an option. Got it. So I was like wrangling 100 nine-year-olds. One of them was on the autism spectrum. And like a teacher needs to go through like specific training. Yeah, to deal with that child's needs. And I was like, I'm not being helpful to anyone here. training. Yeah, to deal with that child's needs. And I was like, I'm not being helpful to anyone here.

Wow. And they all died. And they all died. It was the biggest tragedy in Dylan history. People don't talk about that. People don't talk about it. But, oh my God. I mean, did you ski while you were? No, it was the summer.

The summer. But you go beautiful hikes though. Gorge hikes. Gorgeous bike rides. You wouldn't believe. I don't know how to ride a bike. What? Still to this day?

Are you open to learning? that we would have used this time differently. Oh, okay. We could have gotten you out on the street and we could have been like, you're doing it. Actually,

learning to ride a bike, I don't know about you, Matt, was the most traumatic moment in my life between me and my dad where I truly hated him and wanted to kill him. Yeah,

I went through much worse trauma than that in my life, but it was dad where I truly hated him and wanted to kill him. Yeah, I went through much worse trauma than that in my life. Okay. But it was trauma. Okay, so then are you, now was it just a conscious like I'm not, I'm never going to learn?

I think it was like I got on once and fell. And I was like, oh. Yeah. And you were like, no. And I could scoot.

It was like the era of razors. So I was like, oh yeah, you didn't need that. Yeah, no. I can do jumps. I can get from place to place 100%

yeah I feel like there's such a there's such a good period in life where it was like these are my outside years and you have to roll on something

to get from place to place and as long as you're able yeah and the thing is like so you had a razor scooter which was the good one but of course yeah okay see I had one of like the knockoff scooters

that were like not as good yeah rickety rock, yeah. Okay, see I had one of the knockoff scooters that were not as good. Yeah, rickety-rockety. Yeah, and you could feel whenever your friend would let you get on his Razor scooter, his or her, or they or their Razor scooter, you could just feel the quality. The quality of a Razor scooter,

there's nothing like it. Just sliding over gravel. A smooth ride. And when you were given the privilege of finding some newly paved asphalt on a razor scooter

I forgot about it. Soaring Flying I think I feel like razor scooters are sort of a passing

item. You know? Oh. Like I feel like I was like out there being like, out there being, like, in my head being, like, I don't want, I want people to know that I'm different, so I'm not going to ride the scooter.

Oh, I see. And so what was your, like, mode of transportation? I walked, honey. Okay. Everywhere I go. Honey, she was a walker from the jump. But wait, I mean, okay, so, like, at this point, you guys were, this is so,

I don't quite know what I'm trying to ask. Okay. But were Razor scooters to you like a way to like blend in? Well, I will say for me it was like. Was it a mask signifier? Was it like you like being like. For sure. I mean, but I couldn't

do like, cause I don't know, maybe it was the handlebars that made it okay. But like my friends would be skateboarding and I don't know maybe it was the handlebars that made it okay but like my friends would be skateboarding and I don't know about you guys but that's something I could never figure out no ever like truly how do you do it and not die you know cause it's like is it like a balance thing but I remember like my cousins

like they would all play on their half pipe and they would have specific like half pipe birthdays and it was like I would sit on the side and be like I am that's an act of violence that's like domestic terrorism yeah it was aggressive and me sitting on the side like not being able to do this like it's like maybe i i don't know but it's like are there gay people who can skateboard like there must be there must be out there but it was something that my body refused to allow me to do. Like, you know, some people just can't whistle. Yeah, I can't do it.

You can't? No. You need. You need? None of us can whistle? Suck in or blow out. I can't do it. Oh.

That was the first time it's ever happened. Stop. Everyone just stop breathing. That was crazy that I said, I can't whistle, have never never whistled tried one time and whistled i've seen goody rogers with the devil no this is it'll never happen again it will never happen again only that way what an honor and a privilege to be in the room you were here wow i don't know the rest

oh I lived out that does it break your heart that you can't do it I feel like whistle cause no I'm over it great

there are so many parts in musical theater where I'll be watching it and like the person will just be whistling and I'm like well maybe I can do that but I can't whistle

so there's probably whole things you can't do because you can't whistle it's true yes so many shows I haven't been able to be a part of but Nessaros

got it Nessaros, got it. Nessaros! What's so good about that is you get to sit. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You get to sit until, of course, you famously, spoiler alert, stand. Which is actually a horrible idea

because that could have been an incredible role for so many actresses in a wheelchair. Right. Like, Ali Stroker should be Nessaros in the Wicked movie. Oh, my God. Yeah, but then she would have to stand but it's like let's

just CGI it yeah honestly yeah wow that Wicked movie is really gonna happen huh I hope so that's what they they've been

threatening for years Camila Cabello and Shawn Mendes as Elphaba and Glenda it's truly it I think um I think this is

like basic Broadway knowledge for everyone else but for a plebeian like me I can't get over the fact that Libby from Sabrina the Teenage Witch was I saw her

was a generally green was a fantastic Nessa Rose and an understudy for Elphaba and I saw her in Tampa in my hometown saw her go on for free

oh my god can you believe there's so many things I have to ask we have to ask you who your Elphaba was who's your Elphaba okay so when I did it

for a very short time, I was only there for three months, and it was like, I auditioned for another show called Dogfight, the musical, starring Annalee Ashford. Oh, we love Annalee here at Las Culturistas. Me too, very much the same.

And I went in and they were like, no, you gay bitch, like absolutely not. Come on. Those casting directors. I know. It was the same director as Wicked. And he was like, you can't be in this, but do you want to be in Wicked for three months?

And I was like, yeah. I would like that. And so I got to do it for three months while someone else was like doing an out of town job. Wow. And so I did it for three months. It was Jackie Burns. Was Elphaba. Wow.

And Chandra Lee Schwartz was Glinda. And a comedic genius. Tour de Force. See, I mean, that Glinda part, like, you can really turn the party comedically.

100%. Yeah. 100%. So you know who I recently worked with who I often forget wasn't Elphaba, but... Anagostyre.

Anagostyre. Of course, Chicago Company. So, yeah, I wrote on a project with her, and she, like, then afterwards, I went back and looked at her and she then afterwards I went back and looked at her alphabet Slay

Her voice in Reefer Madness too Cuckoo Bananas These comedy queens who can sing Who is that one chick on Mad TV Nicole Parker Incredible Miss Swan an incredible. Miss Swan, an incredible

Elphaba. Yeah, Miss Swan was amazing. Debra Wilson would be an amazing Elphaba. Debra Wilson would be a crazy Elphaba. No, she'd be amazing. Stop it. Stop right there. Oh, Debra Wilson. We need to get Debra on. Now, I need to ask Taylor

what your thoughts, where are you in Gia Tolentino? What are your your thoughts what do you make of it so far I'm early I'm on essay two reality TV yes exactly reality TV me

I did delete my Twitter after reading the first essay crazy yes you know what I recognize this

because I looked I searched for you the other day and I was like what the hell you were missing my content my presence

I was missing your content and your presence we were looking for the RuPaul's Drag Race guest star a special guest this is so funny I was missing your content and your presence. We were looking for the RuPaul's Drag Race guest star, a special guest. This is so funny. I was just telling Bowen today the benefits of maybe deleting Twitter.

So what was it about it that made you do this? I mean, I think you should just read the essay. Just read the essay. I don't want to spoil it. But it was so many things, but it was like essentially spending all of this time and energy like thinking I was affecting any home whereas like I could be better using that time to like do

actual things because yeah I mean maybe I'll just I'll spoil it very lightly just give us broad strokes what's going on I told you that I told you this over

wine the other night you did over wine so this essay it's called the eye on internet it's the first thing in her book it rocks your fucking world and so

funny so funny so funny and she fucking shits on barry weiss for like a whole three pages which we love and neve shulman and neve shulman parenthetical after a sentence about neve shulman where she says he punched a girl in college yes oh my god i laughed out loud i was like oh my god shocking shocking is that the um the guy from uh catfish yeah okay um she so she made her whole thesis is like the guy from Catfish yeah okay she so her whole thesis is like the internet distorts your whole

distorts like four different things or five but I can only remember four it just distorts your sense of identity you identify or you conflate

like your own identity with like someone else's right or and then it distorts your sense of solidarity I see where it's like

you think that you are standing with like a movement by not really doing anything or it's how you know Me Too was collapsed into like one hashtag even though it was trying to represent a breadth of experiences but then it gives ammunition to the other side to be like well look these women think that being

going on a bad date is the same as being raped it was like it just it fucks that up for everybody. And then, Sense of scale was one. Yes. Scale. Scale.

Yeah, you think that like, Scale. Scale. Scale. Scale. And yeah, scale like music. Yeah.

I went on a scale the other day. Was shocked at the results. Okay. And how light I was. Yeah, I was six pounds. Skin-teased. How light I was. Yeah, I was six pounds. Skin tease. How light I was.

Skin tease. I fell right off. I have my bathroom window and a breeze knocked me right off my scale. Yeah. The scale didn't break. It got bigger.

What? It got bigger. I got on the scale and it got bigger. It didn't break. To compensate for how little it was. It was like something

in this Romance to Take Up space. Let me be heavier it's like honey shop in the petite section be out to yourself yeah I fit me I'm huge

I'm the scale I'm so embarrassing I'm disgusting disgusting stop sorry okay keep going oh and then the last thing about scale well scale

because scale where you think oh well one person says something it means everyone thinks this or a bunch of people are saying this but really no one's saying it. Like, yeah, fucks that up.

And then the other thing is opinion. So you end up thinking that rather than opinions being the first step towards action, it's the end in and of itself where you're like, well, as long as I form an opinion and I express that outwardly, then I've done my duty. That's like the same as taking any sort of political action. Exactly. It's like me tweeting like, this is bad. Yeah, exactly. And you feel like you've scratched an itch and you're like a good person. And you know, it's always been so interesting.

Like, I love that people are talking about this now. And I'm excited that people are reading this book. And I'm excited to read it because I do think there is a lot of frustration when things don't happen. Yes. Because haven't you been on social media? Obviously, it is happening. It's like you have to remember that literally when you are opting into social media,

you are opting into a social media bubble. Yes. And you can only see what you've chosen to see. And people can only choose to see you if they choose to see you. So it's like until you are truly influential and famous, like, you don't just

have a tweet that gets, like, passed around. You know, like, you're not actually exchanging thoughts and ideas.

And so, I think that is, you know, I think as we've seen in the past four years, like, the frustration and disbelief

that we can be in the situation that we're in. It's like, well, we're not actually, or the majority of us aren't actually

doing anything. Right. But this is the, yeah. And the thing that kind of in. It's like, well, we're not actually, or the majority of us aren't actually doing anything. Right, but this is the, yeah. And the thing that kind of blows my mind that she leads the essay with is that she's like, you can just walk down the street and people will be like, oh, there's that person. That person exists. But on the internet, in order to exist,

you have to contribute. You have to make yourself known by posting something. You constantly have to, like, engage with it in order for people to know that, in order for people to know that you are there.

And curate a very specific version of yourself, like, going on trips and, like, being with friends. Exactly, exactly. So, yeah, it's fantastic. I'm so proud. I'm so impressed

that you deleted your Twitter. Thanks. I mean, I'm almost proud. I'm so impressed that you deleted your Twitter. Thanks. I mean. I'm almost there. It feels great, honestly. I spent, I was, it also came from, I would like look at my phone and you know how it tells you

like how much time you've spent looking at me. I think like one day I got to like 10 hours and I was like, and dropped it. And I was like, it's time. 10 is so much. It's so much. I recently was confronted by my phone. And they said that it actually very rudely said to me that I had been on my phone for an average of seven hours and 36 minutes.

And I was like, this is so much time. Guaranteed on any given day more than I've slept. Wow. Easily. Which is shocking. Spooky, spooky, spooky, crazy. It's very spooky and kooky. Spooky,

kooky, crazy. Front runner for title of app. But then, then you feel like, do you feel like since deleting it, you already can sense a little bit of a change in that you're doing other things.

Did you start reading this book when like, or I guess I'd already started, but like, um, now I like exercise more. I like just go on walks around the neighborhood yeah

I volunteer at many no I don't I do like I mean it's been such a short time but I do feel like it's better in the long run yeah

yeah for sure what about Insta oh that's staying yeah that's the thing I can't give it up in Delhi I can't go cold turkey

also it's so it's annoying but like if we want to have any sort of like career in the entertainment business you have to have something

yeah that's what's frustrating it's so gross well that's the thing it's like you have to kind of like you will

effectively die to people if you do not exist in some way correct on the internet and then people are always like well I would delete it, but then how will I promote stuff? And how will I do this?

Will people think this, this, this? And you want to tell them, no, of course they won't. Everything will be fine. But then you're in your head like, will it? I don't know. It's weird. We've let it take over to such an extent. I wonder sometimes if it's this thing that like you don't actually need

like you you don't know but if you're gonna do a certain thing right that's like a friend of mine told me recently that oscar winner jk simmons is a series regular on a television show and it's second season and i was like huh wow like i don't know because he's not tweeting about it whoa it's like when you find it's like when you find out like that Jennifer Love Hewitt is still working regularly. Right. Or like you know like that Julia Stiles is actually in Hustlers. Yeah. She is? Oh yeah honey. Opens tonight?

We're seeing it tonight. We're seeing it tonight. So this of course it is September 12th 2019. Yes. And we're recording this episode now on the day that we are going to go see Hustlers and have you read these reviews?

Of course Jennifer Lopez gets emotional when she finds out she's maybe in the running for an Oscar She certainly did and I watched the

video of this She said it's obviously amazing and you know it doesn't matter but it does If Jennifer Lopez gives a performance

that is worthy of an Oscar nomination, I will absolutely cry from joy. Yes. Of course. You were really going through it with Selena the other day.

I was going through it. Ah, yeah. So basically, I said that I was going to do something that I did not end up following up on, which was I was going

to do a J-Lo marathon. I was going to watch five iconic J-Lo movies in the five days leading up to tonight when we're going to go see Hustlers. And I watched Made in Manhattan and Selena

and then ran out of time and couldn't do the other three I was going to do, which were Enough, Monster in Law, and Not the Cell. It actually was... Gigli? No. No. Oh my God. Wait, why am I losing the last one?

It wasn't Out of Sight. The Boy Next Door? No, it wasn't The Boy Next Door either. The one with Leah Remini? Oh my God. Second Act was my favorite movie of the year so far. Boy Next Door? No, it wasn't The Boy Next Door either. The one with Leah Remini? Oh my God, Second Act was my favorite movie of the year so far. Second Act is so fucking good.

Oh my God, everyone needs to see Second Act. There are moments in it that will make you scream. Not from laughter, but from terror. Doesn't she run into the glass door or something?

There are two moments of broad physical comedy that are in a different movie that you're that you're so grateful for including she trips over a partition

in a supermarket yes and then she lets a bunch of birds fly during a presentation at the end of the movie and they get all I just get hit by

a huge truck basically it's like she's revealing at the end of the movie of course she works at like some like perfume company or like whatever so she's like this's revealing at the end of the movie of course she works at like some like perfume company or like whatever

so she's like this is the perfume and then like she lets these doves fly in the middle of a park the doves fly into the street they get hit by a truck

everyone goes oh and then the scene is over they never address it again and the product is a success it's basically like scary movie 3

like the like the pencils being thrown it's basically like scary movie 3 like the like the pencils being thrown it's so who the fuck did that who the fuck did that oh my god basically it's

you'd think there'd be like a rule of three there'd be like a third huge moment of unwarranted physical comedy but there is not oh my god it is so good

it is so good to watch what was the fifth movie going to be oh my god I don't know okay Monster in Law enough Selena Made in Manhattan and The Wedding Planner oh The Wedding Planner but I've seen The Wedding Planner it is so good to watch what was the fifth movie going to be? oh my god I don't know okay Monster in Law enough Selena Maiden Manhattan

and The Wedding Planner oh The Wedding Planner but I've seen The Wedding Planner so many times right so can we have just a round table discussion on this for one second

yeah Jennifer Lopez and here's the I'll say this this is Hollywood reporter actresses in Hollywood who's who? I'm Phoebe

I'm Phoebe Waller-Bridge I'm Amy Adams she's in every single one you're Regina I was going to be Amy Adams I think you're Regina you think I'm Reginaebe. I'm Phoebe Waller-Bridge. I'm Amy Adams. She's in every single one. You're Regina. I was going to be Amy Adams, but you think I'm Regina King? Yeah, yeah. Or Regina Hall, even.

But I do believe that actually at this table, I am Gaga. Oh, okay. Okay. So who's your Glenn? Andrew's Glenn. Andrew's Glenn.

HPA. HPA's Glenn. You're Glenn sitting over there and you won't win the Oscar this year. Hold on. Before we move on really quickly, I do have to say about Gina Rodriguez. Her first Hollywood Reporter Roundtable was lead actress comedy.

And she starts talking about body positivity. And then she turns to Lena Dunham and goes, I mean, you've done so much to help the body positivity movement. And then you can see it sort of like Lena just doesn't really know how to take it. She's like, oh, thank you. I love it. Gina just calling Lena Dunham, whatever. It's so funny. Please everyone go seek it out.

Anyway. Anyway, here's the sentence with which I will start. Okay. Jennifer Lopez is good. Actress? Yes. Okay. Now when when you i forgot what oh was it betty gilpin when you played actress or star yes yes yes i was in a van recently with many people and i threw out jennifer lopez while playing that game and it was a huge point of contention i was like i am a very like even keeled person yeah Yeah, you seem so even-keeled.

Thank you so much. And I got so heated with this girl who was absolutely an actress, and I was like, star. Undeniably a star. Okay, so you were playing, and you were saying, is she primarily a star or primarily an actress? Correct. You were not arguing that she is both.

Could be both, exactly, yeah. So you were, I mean, I would have to agree with you. She is primarily a star. Yes. And she was citing, she said Selena alone makes her an actress. Okay, I would say that she gave, I think, okay, let's actually talk about this. Okay, okay.

She's, yeah. Giving great performances and also being a quote-unquote good actress i would argue like when you watch selena i watch that movie and i say that's a very good act yes but there is something too i think the fact that all her great performances and there were several yes all came in that late 90s area yeah and then they seem to really stop happening completely for the last 20 years so but there's like definitely merits to her romantic comedy work i think like i think she is affecting in scenes in monster in law and scenes in the wedding planner and scenes here and

there and i i would argue that she elevates material that maybe wouldn't even happen. Maybe second act doesn't even happen unless she's in it and doesn't even get seen at all if she's not committing to it in some way. And I think you can be an actress while being in romantic comedies. I would argue Kate Hudson is an actress. I think Kate Hudson's great.

Okay, you don't agree. I think Kate Hudson is great. This actually is a tough one for me. Because it's like you don't agree no I think Kate Hudson I think Kate Hudson is great I would this actually is a tough one for me Kate Hudson because it's like she's definitely

given great performances but is there a lot of versatility in the kind of things that she can do like I would say like in Almost Famous she comes out there

and you're like oh I'm in love with her and then since then it's kind of been like she is real good at doing like the skeleton key kind of like

oh my god skeleton key skeleton key Taylor it's kind of been like, she is real good at doing like. The Skeleton Key. Kind of like. Oh my God. Skeleton Key. Skeleton Key. Taylor. It's actually rule of culture number 20. The Skeleton Key. But she is to me like very good at doing Kate Hudson. Sure.

Charming star. Sure, sure, sure. I don't think as an actress I would have a problem with anyone saying that. Wow. Okay. I can't tell. I'm sorry. I did just laugh because I thought

I remembered and someone brought this up on another episode but in The Boy Next Door this boy this high schooler that wants to fuck her

The hottest man in the world buys her a gift and the gift is a first edition copy of the Iliad. This is a first edition? Wait. That was thousands of years old. A tome. A tome. It's a first edition? Wait, thousands of years old.

A tome? It's a first edition? Oh, you didn't have to do that. You shouldn't have done that. My God. Yeah. Was it an actual scroll? Was it like a mile-long scroll?

It was just like a Barnes & Noble book. It was a bound book. It was like a Penguin edition. Yes. This is a first edition? Oh, Noah, you shouldn't have done that, Noah. I'll never forget,

there was a poster for that movie, like, at my subway station, at my subway station that I own, and one of the taglines of the movie was, like, her biggest mistake, and someone penciled in was making this movie. Oh! Wow, who knew there were gonna be incisive hot

takes on the graffiti on the subway? And it was Rachel Dratch. Rachel Dratch, who walked up with a... I saw her sort of doing the last few scribbles, and then took off. And it was Rachel Dratch. Rachel Dratch who walked up. I saw her sort of doing the last few scribbles and then took off. You were like, Dratch? Gotcha, Dratch. Oh my god, that is so funny. Okay, so I will say,

watching Selena, I was like, this is a great fucking performance. And I'm not surprised that she gives a great performance in this movie. Hey, I've got a question for you. Is there something stopping you from achieving your goals or getting in the way of your happiness? Well, you're not alone because I've been there stressed and overwhelmed.

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Once again, that's 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash ding dong. What a thrill to be here. I've listened for so long and want to know something even scarier, creepier. Please. I saw a live performance at the pit of Prop Roulette you did not and I said when you guys sang a song about being young we're gonna die young

oh beautiful young I laughed so hard oh my god and I specifically remember the two of you within the group which is not to say that the others were unremarkable

and maybe it's just like gay people but I do like specifically remember leaving being like those two are so funny. Are you kidding me? Had we known you were there, we would have lost our mind.

Oh my God. We'll never forget. I forgot who I came with. I like was hanging out with Doug Wydick at the time. Oh, we love Doug. So good. And I came and that just really made me LOL. Wow.

Oh yeah, that was a fun time in our life. That's for sure. Equal parts like aww, but also like petrified i'm like wondering what the sketches were that were in the show i hope it was a good show that night oh god i was a lot of race because taylor was there a lot of race stuff a lot of race stuff of course we were on the cutting edge oh my god oh my god we can't talk about no but you know we were talking about today was we years ago we did a sketch where our friend

Sudi Green played Joan from Mad Men. And I wrote this sketch which was like essentially Joan comes in and it's like the office workers and Bone was one of the office workers. And she was like, we need ice. And then she left. And the whole sketch was Bone just being like, who the fuck was that? We need to talk about who the fuck that was. She's an icon.

That was fun. Remember having fun? Oh my God, stop it. we need to talk about who the fuck that was like I'm getting she's an icon yeah yeah that was fun that was like remember having fun oh my god stop it but honestly nothing

never mind what well I was talking about this the other day at work with someone and it was just like we were just and this sounds so like

this sounds like merrily we were all along but it was just like god remember don't you miss the days when you would like you only made stuff for yourself yeah but those i don't know how you feel but like those were also the days when you were like suffering craving so badly to get on a big

stage you know what i mean where you are right now exactly and now and now it's like the grass is always greener you know what i mean right yeah what did that look like for you like was it just like being in dylan like being a counselor to someone on the spectrum and not having the training to deal with that? what was like roughing it for you? I mean I'm gross I'm gross and I got very lucky I was in college and got cast

in Spring Awakening my sophomore year and left school for the last 10 years have been on the theater schedule you've worked and this sounds so whatever but you seem remarkably like grounded and like not like truly i mean yes like i'm like oh but taylor's like taylor's taylor like gets it like he gets it from all like he gets everything like on a very holistic level like what what's happening in the world and like i like, I'm like, oh, like, that's, like, like, that perspective is very rare.

I don't know. Thanks. Anyway. Same. How about you? I have to ask about Hello, Dolly. Yes. Of course.

Talk about it. Please just. The best. Whatever, yeah. Bette is, like, everything you want her to be and more. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So funny.

Like, as funny as you think she'll be, ten times funnier. Oh, my God. She, I'll never forget we were staging some scene and the director asked her to like cross from stage right and stage left and she goes you know I don't like to talk and turn my head at the same time completely earnestly

so that blocking was changed oh and so the experience of being in rehearsal with her what is that like well actually I was so like prepared to be like in constant like The experience of being in rehearsal with her, what is that? Actually, I was so prepared to be in constant, keeping my distance from her, or feeling like I was going to say something stupid.

Because she is the legend. She's Bette Midler. And then we showed up to first day of rehearsal, and she was wearing a Skechers shape-up, some sort of athleisure ensemble. She's four feet tall, tiny, great. She looks like your grandmother. She athleisure ensemble. She's like four feet tall tiny gray. She looks like your grandmother.

She's like so unassuming and was like so welcoming and kind and she also like wants to get right to work. Yeah. She was so kind and lovely but also was like

let's do this baby. Love that. And like on 10 minute break she was like up on stage going through things like running lines. Wow. Wow.

And you had Beanie and David and Gavin Creel Gavin Gavin Creel is one of my crushes you what a great fucking show yeah the first first live musical I ever saw but just like in heist like just I was gonna say no no just in school did go right didn't you go to hell I didn't I saw Bernadette, of course. I saw Bernadette. Bernadette. You saw Bernie Sanders.

I saw Bernie Sanders in the role of Dolly. Of course. It was amazing. Transformative. Yeah, it was huge. So good. I remember just,

I really wanted to go see Bette, but it was impossible to get tickets. It was the imposterous. Yeah, like harder than Hamilton. Yeah. Oh? Yeah, you hear that?

Yeah, you hear that? Lin-Manuel. Lin-Manuel. Lin-Manuel. Rosalia. I was going to say, oh my God. You hear that? Rosalia. I don't mean to get killed.

No, we're not going to. I just, I fucking love that show so much. I was just saying, like, that is like the first piece of musical theater that I saw live. Were you in it with Bernadette as well? No, I left. David, Bette, Beanie and I left the same day it with Bernadette as well? No, I left. David, uh, Bette,

Beanie and I left the same day. I see. I see. I see. I see. What a fucking arm and arm. Yeah. You all left arm and arm and you said,

if you go, I go baby. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. How long does it take to, to, to stage and rehearse that musical?

I'm always curious about like how long the rehearsal process for like a Broadway musical. Generally it's like four ish weeks of rehearsal with one week being like you're on stage in theater with the technical elements and costumes and then you have like a month of previews where you're still rehearsing during the day and changing the show hello dolly we started we did like a week or two long week workshop which is like hello dolly like we yeah it was so peculiar to do like a workshop of like a hit smash hit musical yeah

but like the principal cast did a two week workshop in Harlem where we just sort of like met each other and got comfortable I guess so we did that

and then we came back for rehearsals and probably rehearsed for like six or seven weeks it was a long process but it was massive there was like a gigantic train

right I mean there was nothing bigger than that 40 something people yeah there is nothing bigger than a train there was nothing bigger than that 40 something people yeah there is nothing bigger than a train there is nothing

bigger than a train rule of culture number take that whales whales rule of culture number 77 there is nothing

bigger than a train take that take that whales it's perspective whales like to always try to use this the water can kind of distort

but actually they're very small they're very small oftentimes when you look down into the water things look different size than they are. So don't be fooled ever.

That's refraction. That's what that's called. And some of these blue whales out there are such bitches and they think they're big. They haven't even seen trains. They need to come see Dolly.

That's right. Dolly. Okay so this is a thing so a lot of people that do musical theater that I know like you were saying like back when you were doing those shows,

like you would rotate out shows and like you do like a workshop of Dahlia and et cetera. Are you one of those people that's just like you just know all these shows so when you get cast in something you're familiar with it from knowing it because you love musical theater? Like is it, do you find that makes it easier? Yes, mostly. And I've been in so many things where it like existed beforehand um so yes certainly hello dolly was weirdly the

one show i didn't know at all wow i'd seen wally and so i knew like some they were like put on your sunday closes in the movie wally oh yes so that was like my only and it only takes a moment and it only takes a moment that was my one entry point but yeah i guess! So that was like my only entry point. And it only takes a moment. That was my one entry point. But yeah I guess I mean I was like a big theater nerd in high school. Went to like performing arts schools from the age of like seven. There is such a good fucking generation of like

like people like people like I didn't know you lived in not to say where you live but you live in the same neighborhood as me and I didn't know this. I ran into I didn't know you lived in not to say where you live but you live in the same neighborhood as me and I didn't know this I ran ran into Adam Chandler Barat on the street and like I said to him I was like I was like oh Taylor's coming on the show and he was like oh my god he lives right over there I was like what and I didn't realize that but like I was looking at his face and I was like you have made me cry so hard yeah I told him that

I was like I I won the lottery years ago to go see Next to Normal. And he came out and he berated you. This is before the show even. He just walked straight up to you and wagged his little finger in your face. Yeah, and he wagged his little finger in my face and he hit me. And it's important that everyone knows that Adam Chandler-Brod hit me and he's physically abusive. No, just

kidding. The only thing he hit me with was his massive talent. But I was looking at him and I'm like like there was a moment where i won the lottery to next term years ago and me and my friend mckenzie were sitting and thank you so much if i've ever heard of like a gay man's best friend mckenzie is her name yeah honestly it was very that and so we were sitting in what i call the lincoln seats come for me um but we were problematic in what I call the Lincoln seats come for me but we were problematic it's September 12th

so basically like we're sitting there and we the perfect for you like the hey number three gorgeous I've never experienced crying like that through so anyway into the end of the show.

Fucking Alice Ripley is a monster for what she did to me. Adam is a monster for what he did to me. Jennifer Damiano. I saw the original cast, but not Aaron Tveit. Wow. Monsters all. They were psycho. And then I was looking at him and I'm like, it's crazy you're here.

And then the other night I saw not the other night like about a month ago we went to go see Waitress and Noah Galvin was in it and oh my god the funniest truly when you're like

doing something can you go see other things like are there nights when you can go check stuff out no which is the hardest I've actually like

seen such little theater I feel like since living here wow because like when you're all on the same schedule together. God, a bummer. Yeah, that sucks.

And especially for someone who works as much. It fucking sucks. And you work a lot, so it's like you can't fucking see shit. And actually, it encourages a tribalism. And that is what led us to the election to begin with. The tribalism in this country. It was specifically the tribalism of the young gays on Broadway. They became so tribal.

And now when there's a blackout, you gotta compete for who has the funnest street show? Yeah. Stupid. It's always Mean Girls. It's always the Mean Girls cast. Oh my God. I mean, there's something about,

I think, I'm gonna go out there and say this. Just because I did a thing recently where it was just like a table read type of thing where it was all Broadway people with one of my best friends

of all time Jared Lofton and gotta say I'll put it out there yeah baby got a little got a huge talent crush

for Jared right back at you from his end I'm putting him on blast on the pod oh my god wow Bowen end I'm putting him on blast oh my god wow Bowen and I'm just like Jared

yeah so good imagine if we both did it Jared oh my god it was just all these like crazy crazy people

like crazy amazing people and all of us were just like oh my god yeah like it was just being

like because I was on the opposite end of all these people, of the actors, the readers basically. And like saying the full, saying all the numbers and to be hit with like a wall of like beautiful music like that. I've never experienced anything like it.

We all got emotional. Yeah. There's something so like inherently emotional about music. Just listening. But for people who do it so well, I mean, and oh my God. This is what I was going to say. Like I was going to like make a big old bull claim inherently emotional about music just listening but for people who do it so well i mean and yeah oh my god i i this is what i was gonna say like i was gonna like make a big old bull claim and say like broadway people like the most talented well-rounded people i think in any like showbiz

field i mean when you see someone fucking crush in in like a broadway musical or like anything like that like that's when i'm like truly mean, I'm in awe of you guys. Like you guys have skills that is just like, that's why I'm like, it's just, it's gaggy. It's gaggy to have you. Okay, Taylor.

Okay, let's ask Taylor the question. Yeah, we have to ask the question and also I'm hoping that, well, before we answer the, before we ask the question, you being from Tampa is important. It's important to me. Of course, of course, the course the proximity as a tampa queen well not even the proximity to our own but you're alone even

because that was where my grandparents lived and my sister lives in saint pete now no way so i go to tampa maybe twice a year gorgeous ybor city even honestly like if i'm not up in the clear water of course oh Getting my culture. Yes. But, no, Tampa, I saw that you were from Tampa, and I was like, yes, queen. Wow. You're the only person who's ever responded that way.

People are like, oh. I thought you were from Maine or something. You give off a very Maine vibe. Thanks. But, anyway, we do have to ask the question, which is, you know, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you, Taylor Trench? So I thought about this for a long time. And initially I constructed this like gorgeous.

Tapestry. Yeah, like a triptych almost. Oh, a triptych. A trifle. Yes. Sort of. And it was Sailor Moon watching Sailor Moon before school. The Brady Bunch movie.

Yep. Yes. Starring Christine Taylor. Yes. And the movie musical version of Oliver. Before School, the Brady Bunch movie. Yep. Starring Christine Taylor. Yes, nice. And the movie musical version of Oliver. Wow. Specifically the scene where Nancy, like the tough broad gets murdered on a bridge.

Oh my God, you forget. I know. So I was all set to like take you through that and like sort of like the theme between that is that it's all like blonde women, which is deeply troubling. And like I need to investigate that. But then late last night.

Whoa. I suddenly remember. Yeah. This is specific to Tampa. A little group called Entertainment Review. What was this? Okay. Tell us everything.

I have a video clip. I have pics like to share with you so you can kind of get on board. But Entertainment Review is a group of it's been going for 30 years as long as I have been on this earth it's this group of like I want to say

20 to 30 young girls okay wearing so much makeup oh and they have nine medleys how young are the girls?

we're talking probably from five oh perfect the average is like five to 13 but then there's always like one 17 or 18 year old who you're like babe right um because for us young girls could be like gay men in their 20s right exactly no this is like genuine like genuinely young girls yeah yeah

uh-huh young girls um um and which is not to say that trans women are not genuine. They are every bit as women as cis. Oh, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait. But so it's like these young girls wearing so much makeup and they do these medleys. We're talking, they've got like your country medley. They've got a big band medley. They've got like a Hollywood medley. They have both a patriotism medley

and a salute to America medley. And the main difference between those is that in one it's like a very formal stars and stripes sort of outfit and in the salute to America it's more of like

a flared light wash jean and a red tank top wow and I think one is like to be performed like one was performed in front of George Bush

and the other was performed in front of Bill Clinton sure I don't think I have to say which different demos I don't think I have to say which tank top number who that was for. But I'm going to show you a clip of probably rock and roll, the best of the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

But out of this group came Willa Ford. Whoa! Who famously said that 9-11 is the reason she's not a bigger star. Yes, the other day she was quoted as saying. Out of this came a girl group called PYT, who you probably aren't familiar with by name, but they do sing the song Anywhere USA, which is on the Miss Congeniality soundtrack.

Anywhere USA! No. There we go. Yes, okay. I tell you, anywhere. Yeah. The swimsuit conference. Yes, yes.

Oh my God, PYT. Of course, we remember And they're also featured in Mandy Moore's Missing You Like Candy video, I think. They're like her friends in the car. So they're sort of like

pumping out these pop stars. And so it initially started as just like something for the community. And then it was like this woman named Cynthia who created it. Cynthia.

Cynthia. Who did adopt a baby named Zoe from China. She, it became like a factory to just sort of like push these young girls into like

RCA Records office and be like sign her yeah I'm gonna pull up a vid and we can obviously edit this out no

no we'll just make sure that we can hold it up to the mic or we can just send we can just send you the link oh my god and then like

overlay the video overlay the audio oh my god yeah and then we'll cut around. Should we do that? Okay. Yes, yes. Talk amongst yourselves.

You're so smart. I'm so excited. Are we ready? Okay, so Taylor has pulled this up. Okay. Are we ready? We're going to watch. Now, what's it called again?

This is called, in quotations, Rock and Roll. And then underneath that, The Best of the 50s, 60s, and 70s. And I actually don't think you need that apostrophe between the number and the S. No, it's not a possessive. You really don't. It's not a possessive. Okay, so here we go. Ready?

We're going to view it. It was 20 years ago today. So I'm the top of the band we play. So let me introduce to you. High kicks to the Beatles. It's going to happen. It's going to happen again. And this is, of course, the 50s.

Oh, no. Soft pop stories. Five poodle skirts. Oh, suggested. And this is of course the 50s Sock pop sort of vibe Poodle skirts Suggestive You'll notice that whenever their midriffs are exposed There's like a flesh colored sheath Shout out to the costume designer There are hundreds of costume changes per medal

Here we have white girls in afro That's what we have white girls in afro wigs. That's what we have here. Okay, the tempo. Very fun tempo. Oh, that arrow is going through her head. Is that your best friend? Now I wish.

Oh my God. So these are two girls from PYT Open that mouth Yes I mean they're very good Totally There's always a moment Where someone comes Like in a gown

And sings a ballad And here's one This like sister wife Like what's the hair silhouette here What would we even call that It's sister wife It's Utah It's Chloe 78

And Big Love Yeah 100% Yes yes That's your friend Lighting design No Hell no Sister Wife. It's Utah. It's Chloe 78 and Big Love. Yeah, 100%. Yes, yes. That's your friend. Lighting design. Hell no. Wow. Wow.

That girl's a star. That was the lead singer of PYT. Wow. I stan any white girl with little to no soul going, Hey! Yes, it's my favorite thing. Me too. That's my best friend.

Sorry, you're supposed to guess. Wow, no, I love it. No, she's a star. Fia Cabrera. And she's queering the space. Oh my God. She's singing YMCA. That's Brilla Forge,

a Ford Atlantic recording artist. Something about the way it was filmed makes it look like they all died in a tragic accident. I was just saying like, the framing always. Oh, yes. Come on. Wow.

Walk and roll. That's important. I can honestly, I connect with that because it's like when you're a kid and you see other kids up there doing it, it does make you feel like,

and then you have the performer's instinct. Right. That's the culture. Especially just like a group of girls like changing looks every five seconds. Yes.

Okay, so what did that do for you watching it? Were you just like, I'm just enjoying this on a pure level? Were you like, I want to do that? I think a combo of both. And I think there was maybe even a part of me, as little as I was when I was watching this, that understood how funny it was also. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, you have to see the humor in it. Right. It's so camp also. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you see the, you have to see the humor. Right. Like, it's so campy. Yeah. But it was just such a thrill and it was so many girls that I was like going to school with. There was a girl named Kalina Nakamoto

who famously then did become a member of the Charade Brigade on the hit Nickelodeon show hosted by Summer Sanders. Oh, you mean, sure, Slime, no, God, Figure It Out? Figure It Out. Thank you so much. Yeah, you mean sure, Slime. No, God. Figure It Out?

Figure It Out. Thank you so much. Kalina. Kalina Nakamoto. We did have the same birthday. Wow, Figure It Out. That's culture. Seeing my friends be stars.

Yep, yep, yep. And they were just wearing so much makeup and I was loving every second. Were you performing at the time? I was, like in school. But were you looking at the girls and, like, with, like, a shifty eye being, like, they get to do something that I can't? Yeah.

A little bit? That's a weird question. No, totally. I'm sure I was like, ooh, I want to be up there so bad. I want to be, like, the lone boy. Singing the girls' song. Like, center, yeah. Yes.

It was like, yeah. Yes. And I also was like, I never have thought of myself and am not a very good singer. Like, I'm an actor and like sort of like the funny guy on stage, like Waka Waka. I don't know.

But I promise I'm not really like, there are just so many incredible, as you were saying, like at your, where you were, where there were so many Broadway voices singing at you. There are people who are phenomenal.

Yes. And I'm not one of those. But you've like, led a Broadway show, and like, to, It doesn't matter when you're a star. It's true.

And Taylor's a star, and an actor, and a singer. Oh, and this is, this is a game, you add a third category, with Broadway folks.

You sure do. Wow. Anyway. I mean, that's the shocking thing, is like, when you watch like, for example,

like Audra's performance, of 110 in the shade uh fancy a raunchy sorry um on the tony awards and she does like an aerial flip it's like you shouldn't be able to do what audrey does in an acting and singing from an acting and singing standpoint and also be able to do an aerial flip and then you see i mean i'll never forget when i saw sutton in the drowsy Chaperone. That was... I watched that Tony performance all of the time. It's shocking how talented she is.

And honestly, I did feel that way again when I saw Noah in Waitress. He fucked up so many of his numbers. I'm not even kidding you. I contacted him afterwards and I was like, you are the next level. So funny. Yeah. But that happens all the time. Almost everyone is capable of that

like if you like not almost everyone but like you see these people and they're just so good like I don't know musical theater acting to me is like

I love you guys it's athletic it's everything oh my god it's like a marathon okay so I mean so this was the culture

that made you say I okay wow just for me and I like I wish so badly I could be doing that. Like,

I wish I had the ability to like slay the house down. Like these young ladies are doing. And I'll like, I, I just loved it. I like, I've always loved a quick change like from day one. And it just.

Wow. Who are you in spring awakening? Moritz. Moritz. Very good. Moritz. Moritz is a, Moritz is a good part.

It's very good. Tony award winning. Tony award winning. Honey. Ms. Ms. Gallagher. Very good. Moritz. Moritz is a good part. It's a very good part. Tony Award winning. Tony Award winning. Honey. Miss Gallagher. Junior even. Miss Gallagher Junior.

Not to be confused with Gallagher Senior. Not to be confused with Miss Senior. But of course. But of quirks. Did you see the original Spring Awake? I did so many times. You did? Cried in my childhood home when it won the Tony Award. Really?

I was like, we did it, guys! Little did you know you would do it. That must have been like a crazy fucking moment when you get cast in that. One of the best experiences still to this day. Wow. Are there shows

now that you're like, wow, I want to check that box in terms of roles? Or is Broadway in a place now where you're just like, well, the new, like, new shit, like, the new shit's coming up and, like, I don't know what the thing is going to be. Yeah, I'm curious to know how you feel about where Broadway is at. I would love to tell you. No, I don't know.

I, in terms of the, like, what, like, what boxes I want to check, I feel like because I've been doing it, I've been, like, lucky enough to do I want to check, I feel like because I've been doing it, I've been, like, lucky enough to do it for so long, I do sort of, I would love to, like, try not being on stage. Sure. Film and television. Yes. But also every time I go in for an audition,

they're like, get your rat face out of here. And I'm like, absolutely, 100%. No! Best of luck with your project. No! Thank you for the feedback. But I would, that's, but I would that's like something that's interesting to me

the future of Broadway I mean right now and for a long time I feel like we've been in this era of like pop music and even like

pop musicians writing music for Broadway and I feel like that's about to end you think so I feel like we're nearing that and I don't know what the next frontier is

sure well it's interesting like the past couple years there have been those like one're nearing that. And I don't know what the next frontier is. Sure. Well, it's interesting. The past couple of years, there have been those one or two shows that are fully not that, that get so much critical notice, and then they do better as a result of that, such as Hadestown and Bands Visit and things like that.

Although Hadestown is a pop album. Oh my God, I guess you're right. But it doesn't feel like it. There's something about it. Yeah, maybe it's the way it's presented. I literally know nothing about Hadestown. I haven't seen it. Yeah, all about it yeah maybe it's the way it's presented I literally know nothing about Hadestown I haven't seen it

yeah all I know is that it's good right and that I should go see it it's truly the same I have not heard a single song that makes us bad that makes us bad

our media diet is bad our media diet is bad and I don't know like literally like it's like it's with the pop music songwriting of it all it's like but when you go see Waitress like it's like it's with the pop music songwriting of it all it's like

but when you go see Waitress like who's mad right totally it's so good she knows how to write a song she is

so talented wow the wickedly talented the wickedly talented one and only Sara Bareilles yes but yeah

I mean I love going to the theater we love going to the theater what were your did you do theater in high school so yeah you go first oh were your did you do theater in high school so yeah

you go first oh so yeah so Matt had a very high school musical Zach no maybe not Zach Efron well I was just

closeted and like couldn't do any of it because I was I was closeted at the time couldn't do anything because I was too scared but I always wanted to

and then I felt like I got involved in it a little late to the point where like I did audition for a couple musical theater roles like i like walking into telsey like auditioning for that shit is like a true horror nightmare because it's like what you said like when you go in there you sing and like you you think you're you think you're a good or fine singer and then you hear some of these people and you're like oh the way you produce sound is just different although you both are very good singers no that is kind of you to say i swear like you are very good oh um lately

we've hurt ourselves back just like you know a nice person on instagram will record us singing like let me be your star is our number that we do in a wrong key and it just sounds awful so we often think like we know that maybe you're a star we can just do it without rehearsing it yeah so then we go up there and it's like finding the note in the beginning because like the way that it starts like and i'm katherine out of the two of us so i have to like start it and i'll i'll hear myself sing it back and it will be so humiliating because i know i don't think I'm like the best ever but I know I'm not that bad

but it sounds so fucking bad and then this was the gag we tweeted that we had recently sang it and it was horrific because we often do that to get ahead of it and Mark Shaman himself tweeted and said I would like to hear this

and I said I would like to see this. And I said, no. I would like to see that. I would like to see it. I would like to see it. But he was literally saying, like, I've sung demos

worse than the song itself. I guess I'm most shocked to hear that you're the Catherine McPhee. I'm the Catherine. You think he's the Ivy? I think you're the Megan Hilty and you're the Catherine McPhee.

Interesting. That's interesting. Wouldn't you say that Bowen is the ingenue? Well, because wouldn't you say that Catherine McPhee is a cat and Megan Hilty is a dog

or no how interesting I was gonna say I was gonna say Megan Hilty is the cat but maybe I guess in some ways

no but actually I did not watch Smash as much as the rest of the people nor did I I think that the reason why Bowen is the Megan Hilty

is because he comes in with a brassiness sure and a whiteness And a whiteness. And a whiteness. And a very white. And a blondness. Yeah. But I feel like like in the like, oh

and this girl's rap that's Bowen. Yeah, but you just nailed it. Please, that was a shout. But you, that's you. You come in with like the gumption and I'm like

I'm gonna pull on my bootstraps and get this part and I'm more like and you're sort of like tucking your hair behind your ears yeah and I'm sort of like

I don't know I guess I could a coquette yeah but the first I mean I'm just literally just copying Megan when I sing it

but it's like that first line that she sings like really hits your ear in this way that's like whoa like she's like flashback to a girl like whoa it's so launching off the by the way i just out of the corner of my eye i saw what happened to the way for him on the wave

on the thing and it was intense bad sorry andrew sorry hpa we peak for only you. H-P-A. Ooh. H-P-S-A. Try some on. Producer smart, Andrew. Yes. Very smart. Hot producer smart. Hot producer smart. Most smartest. Most smartest. Most smartest.

What? What? Most smartest. Most smartest. I've been tempted to just put that on, but I'm just like, no, I'll save it for another time. I'm like, what am I waiting for? What, Drop Dead Gorgeous?

You gotta revisit it. It's so good. Available on Hulu, yeah? On Hulu revisit it's so good available on Hulu on Hulu is it yeah since July 4th baby oh god it holds up it holds up

oh yeah so good well I mean also just like talk about like great fucking little character performances like

come on drenched in them yes there's there's gotta be there's gotta be a gay movie soon yeah I would agree I'm just saying this because I had the thought the other day I was just like There's got to be a gay movie soon. Yeah.

I would agree. I'm just saying this because I had the thought the other day. There has to be some movie with a bunch of gays being gay to each other. Do you know what I'm saying? Isn't Hustlers in a way sort of fulfilling that? Yes, but it's just like that. It's drag. It's an asymptote where it's like we're not fully there we're about to touch it we're like i think it'll happen soon but it is it is kind of like if you ever see like a lot of gays in one place and like

even in even on stage like it's like sad and dark it's like early i feel like we still feel like um but it's it's in terms of the content not in terms of like whatever it is like and I think I hopefully think it will change but I think it's funny that like you know like the boys in the band was on Broadway and it's like I love that like that was on Broadway and they did it but it's like inherently that

piece of work is like not necessarily like a celebration no it's mean and not indicative of the community that i'm in right it's very much like a product of the time that it was exactly exactly and so you know it's just interesting i think i think it's just something that's like easy for a producer to say yes to or easy to give money to because you get that group of boys or men um and then you uh put it together and

you're like what's something that they can do that we can get a quick yes to right and it's like the boys in the band because it exists yeah right i mean i feel like it's a known quantity and so they they noted yeah i'm waiting for like someone to write that thing that like really speaks for and why are we waiting yeah why are we waiting there's there i just i can't wait for the day where there's like something that's not super heavy and like weighed down by like the trauma of being queer and that's the thing and everything no matter what yeah but also like it's not super like fluffy either not that there's anything wrong with that but there's like i can't wait for there to be like a filled out spectrum of all this yeah i am so certain that both of you will contribute things like that to

the canon like things that are like enormous successes and so important to people yeah we'll do that in perpetuity yeah okay we'll do it it's actually on my schedule for next week oh yeah yeah I have I have Tuesday through Thursday uh blocked out to write um seminal uh oh good representative piece of art um no but I do feel like um but I'm just I'm just saying I think it is changing in a big way I'm purely on

on the basis of how gay men I know we just taught we opened this episode saying like well game we turn into our own bullies but it's like

but also like how lucky are we to like not be in a in a place anymore where it's like the only people gay men will watch on a stage as a drag queen

or a porn star right right we are drifting away from that have you read Less? I did, and I controversially found it absolutely tedious. Wow, okay. But you guys share something.

Okay, I'm just going to tell the listeners right now I did finally read it. We've been talking about, like, you've been suggesting it to me for such a long time. And so I did read it, and I did like it very much. The ending to me, I guess, like, spoiler alert for Less, or, like, we are going to discuss it briefly. It such a long time. And so I did read it and I did like it very much. The ending to me I guess like spoiler alert for last we are going to discuss it. It's a happy ending.

It's a happy ending and that to me I was like the romantic in me like I absolutely cried and like was affected by it. I was like oh it's amazing like there's love in the world. But then part of me was kind of like is this reality? Like is this like or is this like or is this earned or is this?

Yeah. I mean the, the reveal again, spoiler. He's gay. He's gay. Um, sorry.

He's blind. Less, less is his last name. Um, no, but like the reveal that it was his, his, uh,

lover that he had broken up with that was narrating it the whole time. I was like, I don't know about this. Like it just, it just felt easy for me. And like a little bit, uh, hashtag reveal in a way that I don't know about this. It just felt easy for me and a little bit hashtag reveal in a way that I don't think was as clever as some people think it was. Any of Shangela's reveals.

I mean, I think when Shangela came out in the bubble, that to me was more clever than all of Les. What a reveal when she came out in the bubble. You're a fucking bitch, Bowen. You're white. You're white. I think I have to also own that I am one of those white people who's like, for me, Japanese culture is very fascinating.

And so I think I was actually so hurt by the fact that I was promised a chapter set in Japan. And bitch, I didn't get it. And he got locked in the damn room. It was in Japan and you had the whole tea ceremony and you were in it. He got locked in the damn room. There were in Japan and you had the whole tea ceremony and you were in it. It was, there were so many pages dedicated to other travels and I got a sliver, a slice of life.

I will say, every single time a new chapter opened and it was a new place, I was like, ugh, I'm bummed. I want to be in the last place for this place.

And then, I was happy to be where I was. Well then that's effective fucking storytelling, bitch. Yeah, 100%. I didn't say that it wasn't. I'm just saying, I'm just saying I'm iffy on the ending i liked the book i didn't find it tedious like our damn guest okay talk about talk about the tedium honey okay hunty um i like just i never found it

compelling sure okay i like wasn't interested in following him as a character i like i don't know i feel bad like don't know. I feel bad. Don't feel bad. No, you're not. I know he's listening. Andrew. The character. The character.

Yeah, but my thing was like, it's weird because my favorite parts of the whole book were the flashbacks to their life. And I was like, oh man. And then it was weird because even though, spoiler, they end up together at the end, I was kind of just like, oh, I don't know if this feels right. Because people don't just come back. To me, the compelling thing, and Sudi reminded me of this the other day when we were talking about it, was that it's really

interesting to track it from Arthur Less as a character being the young person in the couple, just dating this older man. The mirroring. The mirroring of it, where then he comes into middle age being like, what the fuck is happening?

Right. I have a younger lover. He's leaving me. He's marrying someone else. Like that, I think. And assuming it has to be that way and like kind of causing the demise of your own relationship

despite that not being what you want because it's been your experience. Sure. And the way that Andrew Sean Greer writes it, like executes the mirroring is I think very cool. But I, I,

I get what you, but I think part of him as a character is that he's like kind of a cipher that he's just like, well, at least like an every man that we are, or just like in terms of like his, like where he's at in life in terms of being a middle aged gay man, not knowing how to like,

like not knowing what the rule book is. Like he's just like, he's floating. He's like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I guess I'll travel around the world

and not think about my ex getting married. I don't know. But I get what you're saying. It's like, at some points it gets a little, maybe a little tedious

with like the jokes perhaps. See the humor in it, I enjoyed the humor in it. I think sometimes things, it's so richly written that it sometimes is just like, okay, let's get to the next page. There were like no events. Yeah. Sure. I think I also, I hear what you're saying about the framework, but I feel like instantly I knew what the book was and there were no surprises.

Oh, sure. Okay, that's fair. Oh my God, I am fucking obsessed. We've talked about two different books. Book queens. Can you believe? There's gotta be some book club thing. Like some Oprah's book club for the masses

for the queers. I don't know. What's the next book I'm reading? The Bible. Trick Me or Gia Tolentino. Oh yeah, I want to read that and also the book that you keep telling me to read. Normal People read Normal People it's hetero but I liked it a lot I've seen it on

many a book table many a book table it's fine for me if things are hetero right I can actually read a hetero piece there you go

I think it's like a hetero piece exactly a hetero piece like Succession is a hetero piece I haven't watched that me neither

I just started I think it's fun everyone says it's so fucking good. There's fun stuff happening. And it's happening to me again, which is, are you like this, where it's like when everyone tells you something is so good, you're like, I'll get to it. Yeah, immediately contrarian. Yeah, there are so many things.

Breaking Bad, I've never watched. I know it's incredible, but I'm like, ugh. No, same. You don't need it. I, for some reason, have just like, I know that What's-Her-Face chokes on her and vomits and dies. Oh, God. It's so horrible. Who? Jessica Jones?

Oh, God. Kristen Ritter. Kristen Ritter. The Bee in Apartment 23? Yeah, The Bee in Apartment 23. Who was, whose co-star was in Entertainment Review,

Dreama Walker. Dreama! I believe was, who also did play Miss Hannigan to my star-to-be singing solo in Annie. In Annie? Oh, my God.

I'm sorry. Dreama Walker? I have to just stop. There's someone named Dreama Walker. You don't know her. Tampa's own Dreama Walker. I refuse to believe. Taylor Swift and Dreama Walker. I refuse to believe that I didn't come up with Dreama Walker.

You may know her from the first Sex and the City movie. She's a waitress at the restaurant when Charlotte's water breaks when she sees Big oh Miss Dreamer she's like oh my god

and she was in an entertainment review and she was in an entertainment review I'm almost certain Dreamer Dreamer Walker oh wait

talk about this a little bit a white person obsessed with Japanese culture have you been to Japan no I was supposed to study abroad in Japan for a full year in college.

All the theater majors, not all, but most of the theater majors go to London. It's basically the same thing as being in college in America. And I was like, I'm not doing that. And so I made, I crafted my own program in Japan. I'm not doing that. I contacted a host family.

I planned this entire year abroad in Kyoto. And then a month before I was going to leave I found out about Spring Awakening wow and have never been how long has that been? 10, 11 years wow okay

so you're due you're due I think girls trip girls trip we've talked about Tokyo we've been saying

and Japan and Jen like Kyoto I've heard it's a great time we gotta go and then it's a great time we gotta go and then it's a great excuse to go to Disney Sea Disney Sea wait I have to ask a question

okay yes who are you who are you being in Dear Evan Hansen uh huh so was that like a different deal

in terms of like the fans treated it like a cultural because that was a cultural moment especially I would imagine for like I remember being in high school and very much that that was a cultural moment especially i would imagine for like i remember being in high school and very much that that was that moment was wicked so now it's like you were in dear evan hansen when it was having its cultural yes moment like can you talk about like what it's like to perform that show for an audience that is experiencing that

show as part of its culture in the way that we ask about it. You know what I mean? And expectations are high. It was so peculiar because I was the only person, it was the original company and then me and I was replacing this person who was like,

their performance was the stuff of legend. When it was announced that he was leaving, fans were furious. They're like, no matter who comes in, we're going to burn their house down. And of course, we are talking about

Ms. Ben Platt, honey. Ms. Ben. Ms. Ben Platt, honty. We love him. Currently in Brazil. Yes. Oh my God, right. Be careful.

Honestly, he said he was going to Brazil and I was like, wow, literally come to Brazil. Come to Brazil, I know. It'll stop. Radio silence now. He was doing press in Brazil and I was like, literally come to Brazil I know it'll stop radio silence he was like doing press in Brazil and I was like well I never thought of that as like

an epicenter of press for like a gay show by the way that show looks stunning you did yeah Gwyneth Paltrow is exquisite.

Oh my God. We're talking Lucy Boynton. Yes. I never saw Bohemian Rhapsody. Oh, wow. That's Miss Lucy. She is like essentially the villain. An unbelievable performance.

Really? Is Lucy playing Jessica Lange's daughter? No, Jessica Lange's daughter is Zoe Deutsch. Oh, okay. I just got chills up my spine remembering that Jessica Lange is in it. And is giving you like everything you've ever wanted. Oh my god! It looks great. Yeah.

I'm excited. I can't wait to see what happens. Wow. Oh my god. I'm excited. I saw the trailer and I was like, that's what I wanted to show. Yes. Okay, we keep talking about Dear Evan Hansen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so, yeah, it was like terrifying to step into this thing. I feel like also when something becomes so huge, and especially the group who, like, loved it first,

they sort of have a sense of ownership over it. Yes. And so it was, like, horrifying to step into that show and to step into a part that is, like, all, that is so much about singing and singing high and singing a lot. It's a vocal moment. And I was like, no. And so I was, like, living in constant fear of that.

It was cuckoo crazy but also like because it was this like it was like the show and still is in many ways it's like such a huge staple on Broadway

like I like I feel like the day that my casting was announced like suddenly I got like 40,000 followers on Instagram yeah I bet

I bet it really is it was this moment yeah and I think it was, it was one of those things where I really, I was dying to go see it.

I still have not seen it because it continues to be. Me neither. I mean, once word got out about the fucking iconography that was banned in that, it was kind of impossible

to get tickets and then it continued to be impossible. Yeah. So I haven't seen it. But then that also just means that you being in that, like, all I heard at least was like stellar, stellar, stellar things about Taylor.

Oh, yeah. So it was just like. Did you do it with Rachel Bay Jones? I did do it with Rachel Bay Jones. Oh, great. Yeah, I joined with the original cast. And then like slowly, like month by month, a person would leave.

Yeah. And a new face would come in. And I mean, everyone is so good at the show. I just saw the show recently with the boy who's doing it now Jimmy Award winner Andrew Barthelme.

Yes! Oh my god I saw him win! And he's so good. Literally Joel Kim Booster and I just at the Jimmy Awards were like he's gonna be in fucking Dear Evan Hansen. The producer of Dear Evan Hansen

was in the audience and like leaned over to the casting director and was like there he is. We got him. There he is, we got him. It's so funny like he's now in Dear Evan Hansen was in the audience, leaned over to the casting director, and was like, there he is. We got him. There he is, we got him. It's so funny. He's now in Dear Evan Hansen,

and Renee Rapp is Regina George. Wow. That's crazy. And that honestly, I don't know, did you watch the most recent Jimmy Awards? Yes, yeah. I was there in the flesh,

which Ben Platt hosted. Of course. I was in the literal back row. And the girl who won. Oh, yes, you totally. She was a stunning performance. I'm forgetting her solo. Oh, I'm here, I'm here.

Yes, it was just unbelievable. And the guy who won, too, sang Wandering from the Bridges of Madison County. Yes, you were the best. It was tremendous. It was so, so, so good. And just watching that whole It was so, so, so good. And like, just watching that whole show was so amazing.

That whole program, was I just bad? Like when I was a teen or is there something, has there been a shift and like, has like the internet somehow like made kids better?

Like, I just watch these kids and I'm like, what the butt? They're all more talented than I am. It's really culture number 45. I just watch these kids and I go like what the butt they're all more talented than I am it's really culture number 45 I just watch these kids and I go what the butt

I think but it's truly the Gia Talentino thing of like your sense of scale gets so distorted and well I don't know I'm not connecting the right dots but these kids probably have always existed and now I can no it's that they see so much they can consume so much of the top

tier musical theater and like mimic and exactly and they know what hurdle what hurdle to reach or what like they're fake

that's what I'm saying they're fake they're all fake they're all fake the kids are fake they're 40 year olds in makeup and we're shutting

the doors behind us yeah and it's actually really problematic that they're even up there saying that they're 16 because they're 40 they don't have a handle on the material. Don't get up there and sing Follies, honey.

You haven't lived it like I have. I will say it was so fucking funny to go there and watch two, count them, two girls perform as the drowsy chaperone. Of course. Like giving you like boozy singing as we stumble along.

These two girls giving each other gozy singing as we stumble along like these two girls like giving each other like googly eyes like we're like seeing the world it's so funny and to know that they're sophomores in high school it's so funny and gorge yeah but I had to ask about what that must have been like because that had

to be like performing a rock concert yeah and so scary but Ben did this magic trick where he somehow was able that had to be like performing a rock concert. Yeah. Yeah. And so scary. But Ben did this magic trick where he somehow was able to like sing flawlessly through the night like while doing something that, I mean,

he's being asked to be very emotional. Like that's what this, especially now, like people come expecting to watch someone cry for two and a half hours. So now it's like you come

and they're like, and this is where you cry. But also like you can't help but have an emotional response to some of the material. Of course. But he would be like, I and they're like, and this is where you cry. But also like you can't help but have an emotional response to some of the material. But he would be like, I mean like a wet, wet face and singing gorgeously. But when I cry, I'm the sort of crier where like,

I can't make sounds anymore. Like everything gets so tight. And so I was up there trying to sing these songs that are so high, just like. And every night, every night. every single night i cracked in every single song but i'm just like i can't the thing is though it's like so there's this pressure or not pressure but direction to kind of honor what the person did um you know who i was talking with this about anna gasteyer because i was i was asking her about like what it is to take over for someone that does like an

iconic right um first uh uh you know performance of something as adina did and she was talking about how there were little idiosyncrasies and like you know the way that adina does things and they want that honored but for something like uh uh such a demanding role it's like did what did they kind of tell you like, make this your own, make it work for you? Or was it like, this is kind of the way Ben did it

and it's iconic and we want to see it this way. They were super generous in terms of like letting me, I also like didn't really get to see the show because of being on the theater schedule. I didn't get to see it really before doing it. And so I did,

they were like so kind and generous in allowing me to like create something new. And the cast was too, like doing it with a cast who was used to doing it with Ben. They were like so open to doing it, like doing a new show essentially. But then like coming,

as we like neared performances, there were things where he was like, just so you know, this gets a laugh or like this, like things that he's like, this is successful every time and like take it or leave it but that is like something that we know works

right I see so there are things like that and also like for that show it was so specifically crafted around Ben sure like it was made

to like highlight all of the things he can do so even if you do sort of try to create your own thing you're inevitably

like a little bit doing them his spirit is in the show and I was gonna say like what a mind fuck for someone to be like okay well here's all the stuff that works

for me and do your own thing yeah and like and you figure out what works for you that's funny I guess it's different crazy like we're just not crazy but just like in terms of

scale it's just like figuring out the permutations of like okay I'll do this this this night, but not this. Wow, what a crazy abacus of whoa, whoa, whoa. It's just when you see those iconic roles, and I saw what had to have been the 19th replacement cast of Wicked, but I did see who I believe is a superstar,

which was Annalee Ashford Duke. And so it was just interesting to see her do her. And she is so great at being her. And she is an iconic presence, but also honoring what Chenoweth did. And like that walk is so interesting to me. Like it's not just like go up there and like give that performance it's go up there and honestly when it's something like wicked i think there might be like a sort of uh not pressure but uh responsibility to give people what they

yes right because you can do your own thing but within the framework of like what the director has decided the show looks like yes what the shape of it is what the tone of it is like within that you can play but you can't like fully come in with your own energy no right because that's

a directed performance do a limp and an accent yeah yeah yeah I tried imagine you came as a Dear Evan Hansen with like a limp and a Scottish accent

I think I went cast on all four limbs what if the cast was full body yes my Dear Evan Hansen I broke his full body? My Dear Evan Hansen book is like What's Your Dear Evan Hansen?

That's like a campaign for something. What's Your Dear Evan Hansen? My Dear Evan Hansen? Neck brace. If I ever want to cry I do listen to the Forever Ever

Oh my god. song. Yeah. And the reprise. I think I've done that too. I think for Forever there was a day where I was like really raw

and it just came on and I just kept playing it and it worked every time. I was for forever, there was a day where I was like really raw and it just came on and I just kept playing it and it worked every time. I was like, oh wow, this is a trigger. Great. For me, that's Normani motivation. Tears, dreaming.

Tears, just thinking about the basketball. Thinking about Joel Kim Booster's exceptional work. His amazing direction. Pioneering. And also, I think I got lost

in sort of the shuffle but he also did direct choreograph the entire live VMAs performance yeah of course and you know

anyone who wants to step forward and say they are the director it's crazy and it's erasure and the fact that you would take that

from a queer artist exactly is really crazy someone you perceive to be white adjacent that would give you permission to then sort of stump all over them.

Joel Kim Booster is the queer artist that directed Normani and you can use that as the pull quote. I think they had... Wait, what was this? Joel texted us and he was like, they're forcing Normani to address the fact that I'm falsely claiming

that I directed the motivation video because... He's promoting Sunnyside. He's promoting this NBC show and she was also on some NBC like she's doing the voice she's doing the voice she's Kelly's which when I saw them in that picture together I was like

motivation wow oh wait one more thing okay Sailor Moon is like your North Star yeah he does it every morning other peripheral things worth anime or no? Yeah,

like Pokemon, Dragon Ball Z. Love it. Love it. Cowboy Bebop. Okay, great. Blind Spot,

Cowboy Bebop. Don't know it. Don't know it either. I think you'd like. And Don Cho is in like the live action remake. Oh. Yeah.

They're making it, they're making it. Oh. I love Don Cho. I just got like when you think someone's hot chills

and not a damn wrinkle on his face I would break him off let him be my motivation turn him around

okay bitch show him innovation I think it's time I think it's time oh my god

this will be I don't think so honey no you did not forget. I literally forgot. Well, it's fine. You'll think of something. You're a sharp tack. So this is I Don't Think So Honey.

This is, of course, HPA, HPSA. HPSA. Hot Producers Smart Andrew. This is our one minute to rant against something in pop culture that we are feeling less than satisfactory about. I'm actually going to call it back to the beginning of our conversation with this. Oh, okay.

Okay, so you want to start? Yes. Okay. This is Matt Rogers' callback, I Don't Think So, Honey. His time starts now. I Don't Think So, Honey! Sean Mendes, Attackers! If this were the 60s, honey, we would just think of him as a talented singer. You are falling victim and falling prey to the social media landscape

and they're telling you to attack attack attack why can't he just be a talented hot singer with a great body face and head of hair please let him just be i feel like if he wants to get together with camilla cabello and kiss in the ocean it's fine i see bowen yang and sudi green do it all the time does it upset me yes but i feel like if they're having fun in the water let them just be two individuals who have fun in the water. If they kiss weird, it's first of all, it's not as weird as watching Bowen Yang and Sudi Green kiss. And also, if that's what they want to do, that's what they want to do. Also, Shawn Mendes, we support.

We love. I actually am a fan of the video with Camilla and you kissing. I thought it had humor. And listen, if you're out here attacking Shawn Mendes, I actually don't think so, honey. Five seconds. He actually is one of the more talented ones. So talented.

He's really fucking good. And it's like, you don't want this person to go cuckoo bananas. So why are you contributing to that? Is it going to make you feel better? It's like, yeah, we can talk about him. Have light heart. Did I go over one minute?

Yeah, you're still going over. Oh, I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. That's crazy. I had so much to say do you think they kiss in the water because of the refractive properties it like makes them look bigger yeah then that makes them look bigger here's my thing is like i don't think there's anything like nefarious about what they're doing like i don't think i don't think they're like scheming like let's create a fake relationship i think we're creating that yeah i think it's fine if people want to be close like and also it's like they're clearly at least friends clearly at least friends they get along and also maybe it's them queering a heterosexual relationship by whatever i'm not gonna i mean who

fucking knows what it is but it's just it's i don't know me and maybe i'm being a little hypocritical here because we talk about celebrities all the time and we have fun talking about them but it's like this feels like it's bordering now on a little bit of like a cruelty that we're not talking about which is like if he is closeted like that's sad and if he's not it's also sad because you're attacking him so like overall to me it's like a weird it's like abuse no matter what it's like it feels like abusive and ugly right now. And I get that like, you know, there's going to be factions of people that are like, don't feel bad for him. He's white and gorgeous and talented and rich.

But it's like, eh, I don't think that's necessarily a reason to, or just not a justifier for like trying to destroy someone on Twitter. Because one thing I liked that Taylor Swift said was like in her explanation of the cancel culture, it's like she boiled it down to saying like, you know what you are actually saying is this person should kill themselves,

like cancel them, cancel them, cancel them, ruin their life. If you really wanted to walk it all the way down the line, what you're saying is don't exist anymore. And it's so easy to say that from the back behind a computer, but it's like,

it's rough. And I, I don't know. I, I've, I have like a reaction to it because it's like it's rough and i i don't know i i have like a reaction to it because it's like maybe because it is about like uh uh inferred like closetedness and i'm like well and people and it reminds me of when people were really really really really crazy cruel to

caitlin jenner before she revealed her thing and yes i remember i think dave said like i um he tweeted like i don't know you guys. Like if, if at the time, if Bruce Jenner is actually trans, like this is really messed up and I hope that we wouldn't make jokes about it if it actually is the case. And it's like,

then when, when she revealed she was Caitlin, it was just like, there was this groundswell, but it was like, did there need to be this like big important moment for you to accept this person? Because it feels like it like you did need that.

And that's sad. We're not, we're just not compassionate. I feel like there's this attitude also where people think by, by like goading that out of him, they think they're helping him. Like, you'll be happier if you're just honest. But it's like a weird selfish thing to try to be like, I know this about you. I know this thing about you. And like, it's that skill. Did you experience that ever being closeted?

I mean, no, not that. I mean, I definitely was closeted in high school. I came out, I think, junior year. But no, I never felt like anyone forced me to. Sure. I feel like I actually had a group of girls who thought they were protecting me. There were things like, there was this thing in middle school or high school

where someone was like, look at your nails. And if you looked at them with a flexed hand, you were gay. And if you looked like that, you were straight. And I did a flexed hand and they were like,

but it can also mean, it either means gay or it can also just mean like cultured or, so it was like, I often had those girls. That's the right way to go about it, I think.

Well, banging down the closet door, I don't see any scenario where it's useful, helpful, yeah. Any of that. Yeah, it's that thing of like, it's like perceived weakness, I think. And it's just like, you don't know what's actually going on. Right, right.

It makes me a little uncomfortable. And that's why I did my I Don't Think So Honey about it. And now I'm going to pass the torch over to Bowen Yang. Okay, great. The famous Bowen will now perform as I Don't Think So Honey live for you right now and as time starts now.

I Don't Think So Honey book jacket covers on hardcover books. It always slips out of my damn hands when I'm trying to read and then what am I supposed to do? Take it off

and then let it lay limp on a surface? No honey. Collects dust. It collects dust and it sits there and looks sad and structurally unsound. I want it. It belongs dust and it sits there and looks sad and structurally

unsound. It belongs on the book but then I'm what? I'm sitting on the subway reading a hardcover that's just yellow and people have to read the spine to find out what I'm reading? No sir. And I don't think so honey. 30 seconds. Books in general.

Yes. Drag books. I love reading on my damn phone and everyone's saying no this is this is what I mean to say people who are stigmatizing Kindles

are like oh why are you reading on a Kindle you only read books that you don't want people to know you're reading on a Kindle no I'm reading on a Kindle

because sometimes it's just more convenient this is what I've been doing lately and I've been wealth shamed for buying a Kindle edition and a hardcover edition of a book because I want to just, it depends on the damn mood of when I want to

read a page or a Kindle or a screen. One minute, we're going to stop actually on I've been wealth shamed. I stand with you. The attitude people have also of like, I just love the feel, the smell of a book. It's like, get over yourself. Wake up. It's the 21st century. Thank you. And thank you for not, get over yourself. Wake up. It's the 21st century. Thank you.

And thank you for not wealth shaming me. Of course. Yes, and those words were said on this very podcast. By whom? By me. Oh, no, no, just saying I've been wealth shamed. Oh. And I'm white.

I thought you were saying you had been wealth shamed on this podcast. And I was like, name her. No, no, I have. Oh, okay. For sure. Constantly. I constantly wealth shame Bowen. Wow, and from a TV writer.

And from a TV writer. You'd be shocked to find out the amount of dollars Bowen is dropping on an upcoming vacation. Oh, stop. Oh, I'm happy for you. Don't do that. We're cutting that out. You have to. You can cut that out.

You have to go on trips. I do. You have to reward yourself. I had no time off this summer. I'm going. Have to go on vacation. You have to. Where do you like to go?

Yeah. Where do you like to go? Oh, sorry. Truly my heart is pounding about I don't think off this summer. I'm going. Have to go on vacation. You have to. Where do you like to go? Yeah. Where do you like to go? Sorry. Truly my heart is pounding about I don't think so, honey. Okay. Well, let's just do it. Where would I like to go? Yes.

Japan. Great. Obviously. Okay. This bitch wants to go to Disney World. I would go to Disney. You know, I've really since listening to the pod and I've been a longtime listener. I used to hold an archaic, destructive attitude.

Like a thought that adults who love Disney were sick and deranged. It is a very destructive thought. But I realize, actually, for me, it's only if the events in your wedding take place at Disney. Yeah. Thank you, next. It's fun to go. I've gone so many times. It's fun. I would love to go to Disney World.

Just go to Europe for your honeymoon. Go somewhere else. There you go. You love to go to Disney World. Just go to Europe for your honeymoon. Go somewhere else. There you go. You shouldn't go to Disney World for your honeymoon. But also do whatever the fuck you want. I'm not going to vacation shame anyone. There you go. Which is also a form of wealth shaming.

Now this is Taylor Trenches. I don't think so honey. Okay. I think I have it. And his time starts now. I don't think so honey owls. I feel like in this culture, we have been led to believe that owls are the symbol of wisdom. I'm not buying it, honey. No, no.

The owl in Winnie the Pooh was dumb. Dumb bitch. The owl in Harry Potter, boring and dumb. Mailman. Didn't have any lines in the movie. No. And then the owl In the like

Tootsie pop commercial Was rude as hell Yes And boring and dumb Stupid What is true about owls Is like 30 seconds

They have not one Not two But three different Sets of eyelids Ew They like turn their heads All the way around Ew

Close bitch They're silent as they fly In fact one time In high school I was driving home From like either a rehearsal or a performance of a theater production and an owl out of nowhere,

because remember, silent flight, landed on the hood of my car. Gross, bitch. We had a face-off. Nicholas Cage. Is he in that movie? I'm not sure, Nicholas Cage. I don't think so, honey.

Nicholas Cage. That's what made a wonderful damn bird. Damn bird. I love that one. Oh my God, I can't think so honey Nicholas Cage I made I made a wonderful damn bird damn bird I love that one oh my god I can't believe that damn bird came and flew

and landed on your god damn car what a little bitch what a little bitch they're so spooky owls freak me the fuck out if you like owls

get out get out go work at anthropology if you love owls so much get yourself a little decorative pillow for your velvet ass settee There you go

This is Chelsea Ryan Rogers My sister loves owls And she's a fan of the pod No go work for Drake He's got owls on his fucking stuff Go try to court Millie Bobby Brown I actually have to say I love owls

I love when they turn their heads around like this. They have giant heads. And it's not like they're like, oop, over the shoulder. It's like a, oof. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe I hate them. Also, they probably are so sick with disease. Dirty, dirty birds.

I'm sorry to be like, yes, and I'm being ornithology normative here, but I feel like a bird shit. ornithology normative here but i feel like a bird a bird but like a bird should look like a big beak small eyes owls huge eyes small beaks fucked up fucked up it is so stupid the way you say this is bad no this is a razor this is owl erasure this is this is small beak big eyes erasure birds. And also, it's almost as stupid as Joel Kim Booster saying, whales are too big and some dogs are too small. Because famously, whales are not as big as

we think. The train is the biggest thing. In the world, there's nothing bigger than a train. Joel Kim Booster, Joel Kim, no sir. No sir? Oh my god, I can't wait to say that to his fucking face. His stupid face. i think this is great this is this is a very good episode this is a great episode can i say something i'm sad it has to end me too i feel like i made a new friend we did we did and honestly you can come

back anytime anytime you want anytime you freaking want what do you want to say to everyone because now that you don't have Twitter I guess so oh my god I wish I had something of note to say vote

vote vote everyone should vote unless you don't believe in human rights and then please don't then don't then don't vote

then you can stay far away from the polls you can stay home that day I'm so thrilled to be here I've truly been fans of yours for so long and I'm so excited. The only shows I watch regularly are the shows that you're contributing to as writers and as actors.

Can we? You are a kindness personified. Also, we did try to get you on the pod way back when in Hello Dolly days. Your publicist said he will not be doing this. We literally weren't allowed

to do press during Hello Dollities oh no way they wanted it to be like this little secret so you were like I wonder what's going on in there and she said

he will not be doing this and if you try to reach out to him I'll kill you I am the publicist I have all the power I want to write a movie called The Publicist where it stars me

and I just tell everyone he won't be doing that basically a movie that I'm writing for myself is me as the publicist here ask me a question about one of my clients we want to ask Hillary about the neighbor she will not be doing that she will not be doing that

that set up was bad and that's the seminal gay work that we've been looking for yes also Hillary Duff Hillary Clinton that set up was bad and that's the seminal gay work that we've been looking for yes the publicist also Hilary Duff Hilary Clinton Hilary Swank

which were you thinking of Swank even Swank no this was this was when Matt and I were interviewing at Vulture and we were interviewing the younger cast

and Hilary Duff's publicist ran up to us and said do not ask her about the neighbor she's been Instagram storing I was like I can't tell you

how much I don't understand what you're saying we were just like I truly we don't give a shit we were gonna ask her about the neighbor she's been Instagram storing. I was like I can't tell you how much I don't understand what you're saying. We were just like I truly don't give a shit. We were going to ask her about like your veneers. If she still talks to

Lelaine. Okay wait I actually have to tell a story about Lelaine. When I was from the ages of 12 to 14 I lived in Los Angeles by myself.

My parents sent me there and I lived there because I wanted to be an actor. Oh my God. And I went to a club called Club 17 which was a club for young actors. And the cast of Seventh Heaven did frequent the club. And one night-

At the age of 13? At the age of like 13. Miss Beverly Mitchell. Miss Beverly Mitchell herself with a blunt bang. Actually, I don't even know if I call it blunt. I call it speed. Oh. Lelaine came one night and I overheard her say to a group of people, I wasn't born.

I just am. Holy hell. What a Lelaine thing to say. Lelaine, honey. came one night and I overheard her say to a group of people I wasn't born I just am holy hell absolutely what a Lelaine thing to say Lelaine although we have to respect Lelaine for the culture that was the episode where

she wasn't eating and they had to film the music video and she was too weak and oh my god and basically then at the end she sings

Reflection by Mulan yes Reflection by Mulan Reflection by Mulan Lea Salonga by Mulan. Reflection by Mulan. Lea Salonga. Christina Aguilera. Leila Songa. Leila.

Who I am inside. It was very that. Wow. Very good. Okay. Well, before we get spin off a whole other podcast about Leilane. We do have to end and we do end every episode with a song. Out there. there's a world

outside of Yonkers we're out there beyond this hate town Barnaby there's a sling town Barnaby

alright wow I don't know that hello Dolly oh beginning of put on your something clothes oh

it's okay oh it's Barnaby bye check it out forever dog this has been a forever dog production executive produced by brett boehm joe cilio and alex ramsey for more original podcasts please visit forever dog podcasts.com and subscribe to our shows on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram, at Forever Dog Team, and liking our page on Facebook. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind scenes, stories, crazy details, and honestly,

just having a blast talking football. Every week. We're discussing our favorite players of all times from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age old question. What kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out Jules new episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production

in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13

to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.