Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "SWIFT/SWIFF" (w/ Matt & Bowen)

Episode Date: March 10, 2021

The time has come for Matt & Bowen's deep dive on evermore. We know...late!!! But after taking some time to sit with the album, Las Culturistas has takes on the ongoing battle between Taylor vs. Tayla and how it exists in this body of work. The boys discuss each song on the album, and also get into this season of Drag Race UK and how Bimini Bon Boulash is their ONLY winner, the recent Snatch Game on RuPaul's Drag Race, final WandaVision thoughts, and Netflix's I Care A Lot. Also, though this episode was recording literally while Oprah's interview with Meghan and Harry was airing, the royal family is, let's just say, discussed in the episode's closing moments. And you allllreeaaddyy know what that means!!! GRLOO. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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you won't want to miss this one. Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Oh, and look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. I'm sensing a little peculiar energy frequency from my sister. I just feel like a very dropped in spirit today. Okay. And could it be that's because we're going to talk about an album that's very dropped in? I did an assignment for my sister. I watched the potentially

controversial movie, I Care A Lot. Oh, you did watch it? I watched it today. I thought we were going to talk about it on the pod. Oh my god. Well, I'm happy to talk about it on the pod. And also, I want you to know like, not only that, but I was attacked by a reader in the DMs. What did they say? I was attacked by

a reader in the DMs and they said, this is what this reader said to me at the call. They said, I wish that you would talk about things that me and my queer friends really talk about. Your podcast is feeling very sponsored lately. By whomst? I said to him, I responded, I said, listen, queen, what do you mean? And he said, I didn't think you would respond i was like

yeah i bet you did it i was like but now i demand to know he was like no he said you know the wand division of it all this real house has a salt lake of it all feels very sponsored and i was like if we're being accused of talking about straight things if they think those are that's straight culture i don't understand. There's, there was some, there was like a codedness in what he was saying

in that we're talking about WandaVision, we're talking about Salt Lake City and he called it, he called it, he said it felt very sponsored

and I thought like, oh, he doesn't, he's like, and he said, I wish you would talk about what me and my queer friends

really talk about. Like, you haven't talked about UK drag race at all. And I was like, let me write down on my list, UK drag race. I said to the person,

I was like, if it makes you feel any better, UK drag race. I was like, if it makes you feel any better, Bowen and I are both absolutely Bimini stans. Bimini Bambu Lash is as charismatic of a drag race contestant as there's ever been. They are,

they are phenomenal. And I truly, what a star.'s ever been. They are phenomenal. And truly, what a star. What a star, Bimini. I feel now, well, I don't know how you feel, but this last episode I felt was really controversial. Very controversial. I did not agree with the person who went home. Not to sort of dabble in this imagery for the people listening,

but I feel that Rue and Michelle go to a different multiverse when they cross the pond. They get there and it's like the way that they judge is just fundamentally different from anything. It's that Doctor Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme really is getting in their heads.

Sorcerer Supreme. It's something that goes on where they get to the UK. Sorry, we're talking about WandaVision again. Whoops, we're sponsored. Oh, I'm going to talk about how it ended too. So batten down the hatches. I have no understanding of what their decision-making is when they get there.

Like in this last episode, spoiler alert, the bottom two was Tace and Ahura after the stand-up challenge. And then they sent Ahura home. They sent Ahura home. Which I thought was bullshit. You said something in the thread that was very poignant, I think,

which is this top four is really tough because two out of the four of them have no chance of winning. Zero chance. Tase is never going to win the show. Ellie is not going to fucking win. Ellie was never going to win the show. But if you narrow it down to a top three, because I believe UK does a top three,

of Lawrence Chaney, Bimini Bambulash, and Ahura, But if you narrow it down to a top three, because I believe UK does a top three, of Lawrence Chaney, Bimini Bambulash, and Ahura, I feel like they all make cases for the win. Absolutely. But now you have a full villain edit for Lawrence, which I think is kind of justified because I've never gotten on the Lawrence train, sadly. I just don't get it as much as Rue seems to. It's truly such a crapshoot to know

what Rue will laugh at, and I think I would tell him this to his face. You don't know what will make Rue cackle, throw Rue into a cackling fit. It feels non-sequitur-y. It's like, oh, it just feels coincidental, whatever. But Bimini

is fully getting the winners at it at this point you think so yeah absolutely like they just showered her with praise about that with that acne look which was genius by the way fully genius and and bimini is just like a star and like is confident and like has this like i don't know stability whereas lawrence you this the veneer is starting to crack and you're you're sort of seeing lawrence like lash out a little bit yeah just my perspective is when you look at bimini in pretty much every area that they judge on the show when it comes to like performance quality fashion comedic instincts like outlook pov everything feels like fresh and new and like like a like like the maybe this isn't true because she obviously can get better from here but like a fully realized drag

queen um who is like ready to execute on all levels and just knows themselves whereas like and so that's why i think she's the winner and And also like if Lawrence Chaney is going to come into this competition as a comedy queen, you probably should win a comedy challenge and not flop in the comedy challenges like you have been. And I don't, I'm not a Lawrence Chaney hater, but I did want to ask you what you thought of when Ellie diamond put the

order together and a horror and Lawrence Chaney were so upset about the way that Ellie did that. What was your take on that situation? I felt like it was, I kind of see where Ellie's coming from, where Ellie was trying to set each of her competitors up for failure. It felt like if Lawrence was good enough of a comedic performer it wouldn't have mattered where she landed in the lineup yeah i think the cool thing would have been to just be like oh whatever i'll kill wherever i'm at which is what bimini said and i thought that i was of two minds about it it's like i think that they should have just sucked it up and done whatever the order was and moved on because in saying you should have been last or that the order was bad what you're kind of doing is talking shit about everyone else so

oh 100 so that was odd to me that they would make such a huge deal about it i guess the only person who was justified in feeling bad about it was it would have been a horror because it's just hard to go first or quote unquote hard to go first again like if you're actually a confident performer you shouldn't care about that but where i did side with lawrence a little bit was i felt it was patronizing of ellie to be like so is everyone okay with that and when lawrence was like you don't care if we're okay with it so don't ask us if we are like you did what you did like shut up like so yeah i ultimately was like i think she's right there that it's bullshit for ellie to be like let me just check in with you girls that you're okay with it like you don't actually care you did this to fuck us up you didn't deny it and now we're we

we see where you're at i think it's also it's lawrence kind of lashing out at losing control and also of this being some sort of comeuppance maybe where they've been antagonizing ellie all season saying like every it feels like for the last three episodes every opening of the episode like after the mirror white after they like reconvene after the last week's challenge and runway when they reset to the next day and they all skip in and they're in their in their regular clothes and they gather at the table the past three episodes have all been so ellie you haven't won a challenge yet you must suck like like that's been the thing and then it cuts to ellie's talking head where she's like they should stop underestimating me and all it feels like i don't know if that's intentionally been

built on like a producer level to like make it seem like they've picked on her and now she's like exacting some sort of revenge but maybe that's where ellie was coming from and it makes sense that lawrence would react that way as well yeah well lawrence seems like there's a version of can dish it but can't take it because and also there's i mean she's open about it but she's obviously incredibly insecure and so the fact that she is there and like has been praised by rue as being so funny like you've i can't even remember watching rue laugh at a contestant the way that rue will crack up whenever lawrence cheney even wouldn't even do that with like bob she wouldn't even do that with like genuinely funny she's like really really enamored with lawrence in a way where even just

when she says her name, she's already laughing. It's like already at a 10 to the point where maybe it's set an expectation in Lawrence's head or like she thinks who she is and like now she's not succeeding and it's fucking with her. Sort of Alaska vibes like in the last week or two of All Stars 2 when she started to sort of crumble. But she definitely isn't cool as a cucumber lately.

And I thought it was a bummer to see Ahura go because I thought Ahura at least had perspective and hasn't been in the bottom three times. I'm done with Tace. The soup sandwich thing is really dark with Tace. I saw that last night and I was like-

Can you believe? But I think taste is just someone who like, and I absolutely love like that kind of food as well. Like I- Sloppy doppy. Sloppy doppy. I still buy SpaghettiOs from Trader Joe's to this day. Were you a Sloppy Joe girl?

I was, I love a Sloppy Joe. I'll still eat a fucking Slop sloppy Joe, honey. And I love my cup noodles. I love my SpaghettiOs. I love my bagel bites. Oh my God. You cannot keep me away from the frozen ice. I have trauma from watching other kids eat sloppy

Joe in elementary school. What is this trauma? Let's unpack. I don't know what it is. Well, I've told you when I was younger, young what it, well, I've told you like when I was in, when I was like younger, young, young, young, I had like, I had like a food phobia when I was a little kid. Like I could only, I could only eat food that I saw my mom make that was hot and

I didn't trust the cafeteria food. So when I'd watch all my peers, like, oh yeah, no, I was, I had like a issue with food when I was younger. I always learn something about my sister. It's like the glorious gay onion. You know, it's the big queer

onion. It's actually, it's a front runner for a title of that. The queer onion. We would be doing such a disservice to not name this Swift Swift, but keep going. Oh wow, that's pretty good. That's another front runner sorry not to like pre-ordain good job bo no i mean we pre-ordain all the time this we do

here on law of cult um okay so wait but i would watch these kids like slobba lobba lobba doodah um he's all like like sloppy joes and i was like i just would not eat my lunch and the amount of lunches i threw out just from being afraid of food like it was so hearing that you love to sort of eat the sloppy messy food is trigger for me because as taste was talking about it i was like so revolted that i almost had to turn it off it was a lot it was a lot but anyway you saw the episode where she made it right i saw i saw the clip that she posted to her Instagram where she makes it and she bites into it and thinks it's so delicious. And I'm like, that's going to be a no from me, dog.

It is lethal. It is lethal. Rotten. It is rotted and gutted as a snack. Rotted and gutted. It was not good. But anyway, so I guess you are a Bimini stan. I am a Bimini stan.

I feel Bimini is the only winner um switching gears over to the drag race us we had snatch game what were your thoughts as a character performer extraordinary i thought it was a decent snatch game the ratio of like four of them being good to fight like it it felt like a decent ratio. There wasn't like a full standout to me, even, I'm sorry, even with Gottmik. It wasn't like,

I loved it. It was, she deserved the win. Absolutely. And she succeeded and she was very good. And it went, and is one of the stronger snatch game performances we've seen overall. I,

it's not going to be a fucking Bob as, you know, Uzu Aduba into Carol Channing. It's not going to be Alaska as Mae West. It's not going to be Jinx as Lil Edie. Like, those wins are like, oh my god, they're so good. I mean, this was just like, I think Paris Hilton was the perfect choice for Gottmik. It's not like one of those genius Snatch Game performances for me. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that what was so great about this is it's kind of like with Snatch Game,

I think actually this year is a really good example of many different ways you can do the Snatch Game. So you had a couple different smart decisions being made here. One was I thought Simone as Harriet Tubman. I thought it was really smart to do Harriet Tubman because we as the audience don't actually know what she was like. And so we're never going to be putting it up against a very well-known personification of someone that we know well. All we're're gonna be looking

for is a strong comedic take and Simone essentially doing herself as Harriet Tubman is a very strong comedic take and she was able to put jokes in there so I thought that that was really smart similarly and I think a little bit this was a little bit stronger for me was rosé as mary queen of scots because same thing we don't actually know what she was like but she was able to do a big character that was different from herself yeah but but it was a vehicle for something that we already know her to do well i think she's mentioned the fact that she's been scottish before and she's like pulled out the accent she's definitely done a runway and she's responded, I think, in the Scottish accent to the critiques. But I thought this was a more heightened sort of overdrawn Scottish accent.

And to me, I liked this a little bit more than the Simone one because it was playing two things at once. It was playing the fact that the Scottish accent is so ridiculous you can barely understand what she's saying. And so the lack of understanding is one game and then another game i thought that was being played that was really well executed was like mary queen of scotts able to look back at her life in retrospect like i thought it was funny that she had knowledge of the fact that she was beheaded i thought it was funny that she knew the abbrev for fuck's sake was ffs like i just thought like modern mary queen of scotts who gets the deal was funny to me.

They were kind of doing the same sort of thing where it's like, I'm going to pick someone that I can personify and they did it to different degrees in different ways. And then you have honest impersonation. And that's Gottmik.

And that was Gottmik. And if you can do honest, good impersonation and be funny and improvisation as the character and have some jokes, I, it's really tough to beat that person. And I think what was really great about Gottmik is she obviously knew a new Paris in her bones and could respond like Paris like that. And B she puts Paris' face literally on so she was able to put that face on her own face and look exactly like her so yeah and the Christian Cat down to the Christian

Cowan mama that was what Meredith Marks wore on Real Housewives of Salt Lake City was it not? JLo wore an SNL bumper when she hosted last season like that piece has been on everybody, which I'm saying is a great thing. Yeah, no, it's a really fun item.

It's so good. Those three were great. And then I did like Denali as JVN. I thought it was funny to have... There were jokes in there. There was jokes, and I thought it was really funny to have that extremely laid wig and the shit beard. That felt very JVN to me,

but they were probably the four best, right? The four best. Should we talk about the bad one? The one that we just can't really seem to get over? Utica Queen's Bob Ross is upsetting to me and revolting to me on a level. It upset me. It felt like a nightmare watching it.

If Utica is listening to this, we're so sorry. I like a lot of what she's done. A lot of what she's done. We really love Utica here. The instincts were not there on this one. At every step, on every level, the instincts were absent. Rue was basically screaming at her, don't do this.

Like, it was just, because the thing is, I don't know what you think, but if she had done Bob Ross looking like Bob Ross, would that have been insensitive? That's the way Bob Ross looked. Bob Ross was, this is Bob Ross's hair, and if you were

concerned about that that just do someone else there's just a lot of um there was just a lot going on that was it and it was this like southern brawl that Bob Ross didn't really have

um there's southern he was from the south but it all it just it wasn't that it wasn't like a prospector you know yeah no um anyway just to cut to got mixing no like who like loves bob ross apparently that was bad the the afro full of squirrels i couldn't believe it only it only looked dumb. But you know she thinks it's genius. Yeah.

She thinks that is such an inspired thing. She is not. You know what's happening? It's like she is not. The note to edit is not arriving to her in real time on the show. She's going to watch this and be like, oh my God, I see now. It's a hat on a hat on a hat on a hat,

almost everything I do. And she'll come back for all stars and be good. Of course. And like an incredible queen. Yeah, really, really gifted. And I just think it's, she needs to think simpler. Like sometimes the simplest answer is the answer.

Like I'm shocked. She didn't do Carol Burnett. She would have been great. Like it matches. It's like, it's like, it's like Gottmik picking Paris. It's like,

yes, it matches. It's like, find someone who kind of meets you where you're at. Yeah. Energetically, sensibility wise. And then it'll,

it'll be like, you're setting yourself up for something decent. You might not win, but at least like you won't, it won't be a fucking train wreck. Yeah, it's about embodiment. It's about embodiment and being able to have fun and live and breathe as the character

because Rue is going to improvise with you. So fuck your jokes that you prepared. You have to pick someone who basically is you that you can answer as them on the fly it's not it's not even like an improv note it's it's an impression note almost which is different it's a different discipline entirely um i mean now i mean unfortunately now like i used to not be able to answer the question who would i play for on snatch game but now i know who and and like this is so gross to say but like ever since fran i'm like it has to be like i i i i felt her in my bones now that like i would love to do her yeah you as fran is the definition of a winning snatch

game i think i even tweeted that i think i even tweeted Bowen Yang just went, or no, maybe Joel did. I think Joel did. Someone said Bowen has won the snatch game as Fran. Who were your answers again? For who I would do? For who you would do, yeah. I feel like it's actually tough because I feel like I could really easily slip into like Bethany Frankel, but-

Yes, no, you would be great as Bethany. I think I would be a good Bethany. I think but you would yes no you would be great as bethany i think i would be a good bethany i think i also would be a good lou and i but like i but i don't know like then i think to myself energy than lou lou's not that fun of an energy sadly but then i think to myself like maybe i should do like alicia silverstone clueless so i can be like a sort of like i don't know this is this is chris lecker tweeted tweeted this earlier he was like the most stressful clueless so I can be like a sort of like I don't know Chris Schleicher tweeted this earlier he was like the most stressful question I'll never have to answer

is what would I do for Snatch Game I'm never going to do drag I will not start and I was like I feel the same way like whenever anyone's like who would you do for Snatch I feel like I have to have an answer and my answer is always Bethany because she's so like New York like fast, ridiculous, like constantly crying at the drop of a hat,

starting in like it feels like me. It's whoever, whoever, whatever celebrity most closely matches Sam, your character Sam. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I feel like that's not Bethany. So I don't know. It's Alicia Silverstone maybe. Well, I thought about her maybe, but then also, I don't know.

I also feel like someone could do Rachel McAdams and you could just go out there as Regina George. Yeah, you really could. But anyway, it's literally, it's a question that haunts. You have so many options. You could do Kate Hudson. You've already done a Kate Hudson impression.

No, because we would be like, how are you going to make that funny? You know what I think I would do? The way that you did it on the pod. We'd be like, fuck, let's just go smoking like you doing no kate hudson wanting to smoke by goldie haunt and kirk russells it's too it's too utica queen it's too hat on a hat it's like no it's not it's anyway no no here's what i think i would do for real incredible i think i would do bethany frankel and halfway through i'd be like i gotta

go i gotta go because she's always leaving. And I would come back as Dolly Parton. And every answer is a long song. That's good. You would do Dolly well. Who knows? Dolly's never been done. Did you know that?

Really? I don't think Dolly has been done on Snatch, which is crazy to me. I thought on one of the All Stars dating game ones or like the cruise ship ones did they? I don't know I don't think Dolly's been done and if we're wrong the readers will tell us

but yeah anyway I thought that was a some people on Twitter were like have there ever been such high highs and low lows on Snatch Game and I'm'm like, yeah, every single year. The thing that everyone forgets every season, and Josh Sharp says this all the time. Yes.

Everyone's, it gets so hype for Snatch Game every season in the lead up, and then you get to Snatch Game and you're like, that was fine. Yeah. Like, it's not like no one's ever, the only Snatch Game that is the only Snatch that is the only snatch games that plural that have blown me away are all-stars 2 and uk season uk season 1 and i i

did have a lot of fun watching uk season 2 i thought it was really fun i giggled throughout i giggled throughout i feel stupid because i don't know most of those people whereas season 1 you had like trump and thatcher i know they were easy were amazing. It was so easy to follow. Like, oh my God. Oh my God. The Vivian's Trump is the best Snatch Game that's ever been. I would say hands down. But it's like, I don't want to watch.

Like, I'm not like, I would never seek out the Vivian's Trump. I would seek out and watch for hours Bag of Chips doing Margaret Thatcher. Well, you know, they have a web series, which is Trump and Thatcher on Wow Presents, and I watch it sometimes when I'm inebriated and it does the trick. But what I think about Bag of Chips' Thatcher post-UK season one is that she's made it less fun by taking the red eyes out. Like, she's made it less fun. Like, I was obsessed with the fact that

bag of chips this demon from hell I was like that is so genius she was like she had like hasn't drank blood yet today yeah insane oh my god bag of chips I just love bag of chips I love bag of chips too

I thought the Vivian's Trump it did it for me because like something about a drag queen doing trump like and i'm so i'm sorry to say it but i'm exhausted by every single fucking trump like every time i see a trump i'm like oh like i i just am so over it and he's such a joke and i i i whenever i watch that i'm just like i can't do this and then to see a drag queen do it especially a brit British drag queen, like nail it like that. It's the best flat impression of him I've seen. And it just felt like it could be no holds barred in a way.

That's not true. You've seen Will Stevens as Trump. I think Will Stevens has the best. Oh, yeah. He's got a good Trump. He doesn't do Trump like professionally, though. No, I know, I know, I know. But Will Stephen has been able to pick up on some Trump cadences

that no other Trump impressionist has and he like kind of only showcased it within like the last year of his term. Anyway, shout out to Reader, straight Reader, Will Stephen, we love. And we have to lift those icons up

we straight readers straight men the straight readers up the uh straight readers we we see you we hear you we feel you um before before we sorry we're we're no longer a queer podcast we are saluting our straight before we get into the um the uh evermore of it all what let's just close the loop on wandavision really fit well really quickly what did you think of the finale so that we can move on and then if i get obsessed with falcon and the winter soldier i'll keep it to myself lovely lovely finale i overall i really thought about the entire series i guess as a whole and i feel like none of it was the like wanda like having it be tv sitcom eras doesn't actually work for me like it is not fully explained by the previously on episode where

she has flashbacks to like whatever sokovia or uh where she's like oh the reason it's tv eras is because she watched shows with her parents like i don't know i get that it's tied to her grief and that like the her west view is like things that resolve the grief or that are like linked to the grief but i think can say like the premise is a lot of winding turns through some stuff and i kind of wish it was all which battles which witch battles, witch battles starting from episode three on. I was like, this is what it should have been the whole time. And I know like budget wise,

it couldn't have happened because they needed to sort of pour it all into like this crazy, crazy battle. But that's my thought. I loved, I mean, I really am into the Scarlet Witch costume. She was stunning at the end of that.

I think Catherine Han's going to come back. I think like it's set up so that she has to go and find Catherine Han maybe in Doctor Strange or after Doctor Strange but I have my things about the show that are interesting it's like her like walking off

like walking through Westview after like the hex disappears and having everyone stare at her and she's just like and then basically her and Monica are like they'll never understand like women like through Westview after like the hex disappears and having everyone stare at her. And she's just like, and then basically her and Monica are like, they'll never understand. Like women, like,

or, you know, basically they're like, they'll never understand. It's like, honey, you just ruined these people's lives. What are you talking about?

You're not the victim here. I don't know. There was just, but again, and I think you brought this up and it's like, I have to remember that this is a show that's actually meant for children. Yeah. I think, I think that's why i wasn't really reaching too far for like deeper meaning and the fact that it did explore grief and and also like i think it's better than

any of these things need to be that's what i'll say and i will say in watching all the old movies which i'm doing right now like i just watched thor the dark world today this is so interested in one of the female characters in in these marvel movies in a way that i think is so different from i was actually talking to mike spence about this like um old friend bowen's old roommate um and old improv like troop mate yes in the comics like all these female characters are like flat as fuck. And like, you're like in the comics,

like Wanda is a monster. And like, you kind of understand that she's upset because of what the turns her life has taken. But now she's just like this monster who looks gorgeous in a fucking stunning outfit. And like, she's a crazy woman who like is a witch.

And this is like exploring why, um, a character that's established like that in the comics actually gets to that point um really exploring the trauma because if you actually if they hadn't done this series and like hadn't explored wanda's past and or wanted to continue her as a character like she would have kind of just existed as like a toy that these films use to like torture you know what i mean in order to move the plot forward to get her to like places where she's so upset that she uses her power and

she barely can control it so i liked that it like um uh explored the concept of what this woman has been through and why she might want to create a soft place to land um and how she wants to feel that she deserves and has earned a happy life and then just like she's not fated to do that so i thought that was really interesting i do agree with you like there's plot holes galore i mean like it so much of it doesn't check out like when when spoiler alert when monica is in evan peters's house and she sees when she sees the headshot it says ralph boner and there was that whole thing where she's like you're ralph it's like well if we're in the world of the of the wanda 50 like the sitcom land that headshot would have changed to something that would have been in the sitcom land like

you know what i mean like little things like that that i'm probably looking too closely on and that's why when i take a step away i fucking loved watching it i think elizabeth olsen is amazing i think she's yes she's actually one of my favorite actresses now after watching this and she is julia roberts to you she's the new julia i love her i i think she's really really really good and i i loved paul bettany and i thought they were amazing i thought that emotionally it really Julia Roberts to you. She's the new Julia Roberts. I love her. I think she's really, really, really good. And I loved Paul Bettany in it. I thought they were amazing. I thought that emotionally, it really worked for me. By the finale, absolutely.

And pulp-wise, it worked for me. And I loved watching Catherine Han be this kooky witch at the end and cackle. And I loved watching Catherine Han and Elizabeth Olsen fight as witches in the sky. And when Elizabeth Olsen became the Scarlet Witch, I thought it was stunning and when she said, I don't need you to tell me who I am. I was like, you better deliver

the line. You better deliver the line. I am with you completely. I just think some of the discourse, I was talking about this with Julio and Julio was saying that he also enjoyed it on an entertainment level but the discourse, I was talking about this with Julio, and Julio was saying that, like, he also enjoyed it, like, on, like, an entertainment level. Yeah. But the discourse online is a little

bit like, okay, let's watch it. Well, because some people are like, this is what we do to women, and it's so refreshing to see that this is how we score, like, we ruin women. It's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, that's, I don't think that's the takeaway here. And, like, let's, like, there's, like, wait, wait. That's, I don't think that's the takeaway here. And like, let's like,

there's like hundreds of years of culture and reading and plays and books and movies and stuff that like also like touch on this a little bit better. And then some people, I mean, and then some people have been like, this is what, this is a perfect example of what, of what happens when white women put themselves at the center of it.

It's like, all right, everyone just like, wait, what? Where is that coming from? What is that? It's just like some,

like some Twitter discourse that like, I, I'm like picking up on is like, wait, what? Like, I don't understand what it is. What do you mean?

Like, what is the critique that people have? What is the discourse about? Like how it's an example of white women centering themselves. That it's like you, you ruin people's lives or oh like jesus it's like what like wanda like just like literally making herself the center of this like like reality universe yeah whatever all right don't think i well it's i'm agreeing with you it's like i don't think it runs that like this is naomi camel to tyra banks it's not it's just not that deep it's not that deep and so i just think we have to like again reassess

what we want to get out of a disney plus show yes even if it's even if it's out of an even if it's an mcu property it's like we can this is just supposed to entertain us let's not look too closely at the plot holes yeah let's not even like consider what this means, what this is trying to say about society. Let's just, it's a bonus that we have an amazing performance from Elizabeth Olsen. Yeah. It's a bonus that we have this great role for Katherine Hahn. Like, I think that's how we should think about this stuff going forward. I think it honestly, to its credit, it's to its credit that people took it so seriously. Sure. It felt like it so seriously. Sure. It felt like prestige.

Yeah. Yeah. From the beginning with them trying and doing the different, you know, sitcom tropes and like doing the different genre, like whatever it was from episode to episode. I think it it it presented as extremely interesting and maybe like there was a lot going on. And then there was, but also what was going on was, you know, the sort of theme park movies that are the Marvel movies,

which is fine. It's just like, don't, you can never get a twisted when you're watching these movies. Like, no, what I liked about it is because in watching all these old movies, it's like,

they're great. Like they're a lot of fun, but they are like commercial theme park movies. Like, you know what I liked about it is cause in watching all these old movies, it's like, they're great. Like they're a lot of fun, but they are like commercial theme park movies. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's not inaccurate to describe them like that. This I liked because it felt like it was pushing it a little bit further. I liked it.

It explored one of the female characters. These things so rarely do. And, um, I also thought like it, it was commercial theme park trash trying to see what it would be like if they took a step towards. You know what I mean? It gave people in the cast real opportunities to act.

And, you know, I thought it was I thought it was great. It's like Taylor going from lover to folklore to evermore. Hello. Hello. What a transition. Well, before we transition, should we save the because I really want to talkmore. Hello. Hello. What a transition. Well, before we transition, should we save the... Because I really want to talk about I Care a lot.

Okay, so then let's do it, and then... Were you saying it connects to your I Don't Think So Honey? No, it doesn't. It doesn't. This fall on Bravo. It's time to turn up. Think you've seen it all?

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Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists.

We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations. I was a desperate, delusional dreamer, and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Okay, talk about I Care A Lot then. What did you feel? I thought it was garbage. I thought it was, did you like it? Now, because I was thinking about this,

because if you liked it, then this is a perfect symmetry between the promising young woman of it all. But I don't think, but did you enjoy I Care A Lot? I liked it then this is a perfect symmetry between the promising young woman of it all but i don't think but did you enjoy i care a lot um i liked it more no i didn't like it more than promising young woman i thought i thought it said something fresher than promising young i disagree okay i disagree i think it's like truly like the only thing that it's it was trying to say something about like womanhood but like through the lens of like i'm a girl boss like i true like i was really like truly put off by it that's interesting i didn't see it like that at all i thought it was talking about capitalism only i thought it was talking about late stage capitalism only i thought it

was talking about the evils of people in power and people that are close to power only i didn't think it really had anything to do with the fact that she was a female character. Literally. I thought like for, for almost the same exact reasons as you, as you didn't like promising young women. Okay.

But here's, here's something we should clear up. You did not like this movie more than I liked promising young women at the time. Like over time I've been like, yeah, maybe, maybe it's like a tricky movie on like a writing

level and it's running all these screenplay awards and that kind of bumps but I will say that like I I thought this was a tonal mess as well like it just like the category fraud first of all of this being like musical or comedy and for Rosamund to win over Maria Bakalova at the Golden Globes. I'm like, damn. You felt it was a drama? I didn't think it was a damn comedy. This to me felt like a pitch black comedy.

Yes. I don't even think it was a dark comedy that it was satirical. I get that people think that that's what this is. I think it was going for, like, Safdie Brothers drag. It was down to, like, the scoring, trying to be a Safdie Brothers movie, and it

really annoyed me. And I thought, you're trying to get away with this being satirical, but you're trying to, like, put this under the wrapping of it being this, like, gritty, overly saturated, color-corrected Safdie Brothers movie with all this, like, electro-techno music under it and like there's blood and gore and all that's like

it just was such a chaotic mess of a movie to me I thought Rosamund was great I really liked her the performances I thought were good I thought that I really didn't know if the movie was trying to make us root for that woman or not

see I do not think the movie ever at any point asks us or wants us to be on her side and i think if people think that that is on them and and i'm talking calling me stupid no i'm not i'm not but but i also i also understand that like in framing her as the protagonist and also giving her a romantic situation and you seeing anything about her that you can empathize with or sympathize with- It's dangerous. I would be where you're at. My thing is, I guess I looked at it from the very jump

as like, oh, I hate this woman. We're supposed to hate this woman. Sure. But you're right. But then we're invested in hate this woman sure but you're right it's like but then we're invested in her because she has this like love she like is looking out for someone else's well-being and like i i don't know and because she's the lead of the movie and you're kind of i think that we as people that you know you know we've all like we're all students of the

modern screenplay all students of the modern film like we're all waiting for the point where it's like oh this is why she's this way yeah whereas i think that that never came and i i liked that about it it's just like this woman is evil she is and this person exists and this is based on something that happened and this could be happening everywhere and i think that it was a comment on how little people care when it comes to, you know, furthering their own self-interest when it comes at the expense of other people's health and lives. What I will say is I completely agree with you about the tone being crazy. When Chris Messina came in to argue in the court, he was wearing that suit. I was like, see, this is where i feel like a different movie yeah i was like what are we trying to accomplish here if i'm the judge and he comes in

looking like that i'm like you're not taking me seriously you don't take yourself serious what is this you're wearing a pinstripe wool suit no and again with the music you're right it it's funny that you bring up um like the safty brothers of it all because someone did get in my dms and was like can you talk about the similarities between i care a lot and uncut gems yeah and i was like yeah i mean there's there are similarities there it's just down to the ending down to right and i did i did think the ending went there i guess i i respect i care a lot and promising young woman because they both went for it you know what i mean like yeah but i just felt like and no one no one throw anything at me for saying this but i felt like i care a lot said something about 2021 whereas like

promising young woman felt like a movie that was written in 2017 and came out in 2021. And maybe it took four years to make, sweetie. Yes, it just felt a little bit behind that conversation until it did something really bold at the end. Like, I don't know. We've talked about it. No, I see what you're saying. And I don't think that warrants anyone throwing anything at you. Okay, my friend? I just think I was really put off.

Well, I think that's the point. I think that's the point. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. But it's like, I was even put off by Rosamund Pike's acceptance speech. I was like... I know, yeah. It seems like Hollywood talking about this in and of itself is a way of them not getting it.

Exactly. And I'm like, you're, you guys think you accomplished something by making a movie that like leaves the viewer feeling empty. And I don't think that's like an actual accomplishment. You know what I'm saying? There was an interview she did and she was like, I just thought she was the most fascinating character from when I

flipped page to page. I just could not stop watching her. I couldn't, I just thought she was amazing. And I was like, yeah, but what you should be saying is I thought she was the most psychotically evil person ever and I had to play her. I couldn't, I just thought she was amazing. And I was like, yeah, but what you should be saying is, I thought she was the most psychotically evil person ever, and I had to play her. Fascinating. She was fascinating.

I was like, there's something about this I'm not on board with. That's wrong. And what I appreciate about it maybe is that it's like a movie where the protagonist is a woman that you, that is really unlikable, who is really unlikable, who is really unlikable. But the way that it tries to like thread this needle,

I think very like intentionally is to make you invested in her like outcome, you know, like you're supposed to feel something about her getting a spoiler alert. Like we're, we're spoiling the murder, but murdered in the end. And I don't know that like you come away from the movie like i think it's more impactful that carrie mulligan's character gets

murdered in promising young woman well yeah right so i'm just thinking like i don't know promising young woman is a better movie than i care a lot let's just say that i just think in terms in terms of like what i left walking away with i don't know this this movie made me think about something i hadn't thought about as much okay that's that's fair that's fair i think this is a wonderful conversation well and i will say this anytime the villain in the movie is peter dinklage i do roll my fucking eyes it's like it's like christoph waltz being in a movie i'm like girl we have seen this a million times like can we see like peter dinklage play someone that's not like i don't i i just once he came on i was like oh this is like this is like a level of camp now

and then it's sort of the movie sort of was a little bit like you're supposed to be impressed now by how evil like they keep one-upping each other with how bad they are and even diane weiss just like gets involved in it and i'm just like i'm like oh this is a movie that is about the darkest darkest darkest minds in society who are the movers and shakers of society and there was a little bit about it that was like you know the plot takes some big fucking swings like and i again i appreciate a movie that goes there but i was like am i supposed to be impressed like am i rooting for i didn't feel the girl boss thing but whenever peter dinklage comes in and is like a badass i do think there's a little bit of like look at this guy go you know what I mean

but anyways I mean but we love seeing Diane Weiss love seeing Diane Weiss I thought Diane Weiss was great she was kind of the best part of it she was the best part of me when she says have at it you and C word

no she said you crock of C word crock of C word have at it You crock of C-Word. No, she said you crock of C-Word. Crock of C-Word. Have at it, you crock of C-Word. Oh, man. All right. So the time has officially come. It has been... Three months.

Sometime now. Three months. Wow. That's crazy. Since Evermore was released and Bowen and I famously were a little bit stressed about it because we had just been

sort of inundating ourselves. We were just embarking on the 12 Days of Culture. That was a really stressful time. Yeah, we just put our plates for a two-fall at the time to really cover it in the way that we did folklore on Taylor Taylor. Yes. And I mean, someone on Vulture

recently brought up the Taylor Taylor episode as a way of just like a fun way to like, just sort of, you know, dip your toe into the world of Taylor Taylor. Absolutely. This episode should be Swift Swift. Swift Swift. album i feel she well there's a lot of themes here that it actually feels like a much more complete album than i thought um it really is different from folklore i feel like evermore like there's she is really it infidelity is a huge thing for her have you noticed this infidelity is a huge thing for her grief is a huge thing for her in this. Nostalgia, obviously. Nostalgia, like family history and the way things age. For her to have a song called Ivy and Willow,

and the imagery is very focused, but I think the breadth musically is wider and just as deep as it was on folklore. But folklore to me, and I love folklore, and I think I as it was on folklore. But folklore to me, and I love folklore and I think I actually prefer folklore forever more. But folklore to me felt more because she had to be so impactful with this new turnover. It was a more focused sound with a really deep, like,

you know, lyrical sort of thing. But this feels like she's broadened the scope, but it's just as deep as it was. It feels like, it feels like Red. Right. It feels like Red more than a lot of her recent albums have. Well, what I was picking up on throughout this entire,

and listening to the album again, and like taking notes through it, and like really trying to like soak into it. It doesn't feel personal until the end. And then it's very personal. Like- You had an interesting theory. I said, go ahead. Well, I don't think it's very personal like you had an interesting theory i said go ahead well i don't think it gets really personal at all until like the thing with folklore is it was so

like a modern myth you know what i mean like she wasn't writing as herself and a lot of it or it didn't feel like she was she was taking on characters and everything and with this album i thought that was also true and it was not until long story short which is um deep into the album that i felt like she was really talking as taylor herself or or she was because that we'll get to that song but because i think it's really interesting i think it's taylor talking to tayla and i think it's very interesting the song sounds like tayla to me it's the poppiest song that's across the two albums. So I think that might have something to do with the fact that like, it's,

she literally has a line that is, here, let me read the line. I wrote it down because I thought it was so interesting. It was, it was past me. I want to tell you not to get lost in these petty things. Your nemeses will defeat themselves before you even get a chance to swing.

So it's Taylor talking to taylor and she's saying we know we have an impulse to be taylor but we gotta be taylor get back to taylor you will always be taylor she's trying to tell herself get back to taylor and i just thought yeah i wrote this feels like this is taylor talking about Taylor, most confessional song here because everything else just felt non-specific to her. And I think that sort of, you know, reputation-ish sound that's in the production of Long Story Short is there on purpose because it feels like, and after that, you know, we have Marjorie, which is obviously very personal about her own life. And then Closure, which is about Kim Kardashian. And I actually think...

I don't think it is about Kim. It is. It is. What do you mean? It's literally... I think it's about Calvin. I don't think... You think Kim Kardashian wrote Taylor a letter?

You think it's about Calvin Harris? I don't think she... I don't think Kim Kardashian would write a letter to anybody, much less Taylor Swift. And that's not a dig on her intelligence. I'm saying, like, Kim Kardashian doesn't write letters to people. I heard that Kim Kardashian- Maybe it wasn't a letter. Maybe that was Taylor sort of being Taylor and, like, kicking her feet through the sand and being like,

It would be cool if it was a letter in the imagery, at least. Like, maybe it was an email. Maybe it was a fucking text. I don't like maybe it was an email maybe it was a fucking text i don't know how kim kardashian does things fucking text um but i heard that she did reach out to her once she realized her marriage with kanye west was done and apologized for the way that she behaved with the sources i i forget who told me this but i think this is like a thing like i think closure is you You are an insider. Pretty specifically about like how Kim Kardashian reached out to her to sort of apologize and make amends. And she was like, I'm not responding to this.

I didn't need this. This is more for you than it is for me. writing the song she has she's like sort of caved into her worst interest because you clearly did want to address it because the song is here the song is you can't she can't help but address it because she knows that like that's a little bit of taylor seeping through the taylor will she will never be able to that's what i'm saying so it's so funny on long story short where she as taylor is saying to taylor don't be taylor and then on closure taylor is back and those are the two characters you're people we can talk about like dorothea and whoever the damn season is about but the two characters here are yet again taylor and taylor Or Ms. Swift and Ms. Swift. I don't think there was that duality on Folklore.

The duality is present in Evermore. Yeah, I would agree. I think that Evermore has more Taylor than Folklore does. And I think that is so true because we have this thing that happens at the end of the album when she literally dips into being personal and then she really should have ended the album with marjorie for me because closure we didn't need it she didn't need to do it we didn't need it i don't

know i don't need any more kim kardashian kanye west narrative with taylor swift i would very much like to remove myself from this narrative. Oh my God, girl. I, that was artful, by the way. Thank you, Quina. I want,

I want to ask you, should we talk about this whole Netflix tweet from last week? I wanted to, I want to talk about it because I think it's, I think it's Taylor. I was going to say it's Taylor. I think it's Taylor. And I'm so, well, I'm saying like anytime Taylor...

No, this is it. Taylor Swift as a public figure will always be Taylor. Her own reckoning with her own experience will always be Taylor. Anytime she's writing music and actually expressing through her art in this like on adulterated way that has nothing to do with her public life it is taylor i'm not saying that she's not allowed to like cross-pollinate those two identities or those two like parts of herself because but we are but i am But I am saying that that is a really interesting split in her personhood because she is an incredible artist, as we all know, and she's also someone who has so carefully curated and cultivated this persona, this public person. And so, does that make sense? It makes perfect sense.

I mean, I just think she... Because that tweet, I was taken all the way back to 2014. 100%? Oh my God. We're having this conversation again? Literally. Which is not to say that whole joke

is fucked up and stupid, but I'm saying that Taylor, you would imagine that she's, and this is not like putting the onus on her to like move on, move past this, but you would imagine that she is like, I would imagine her as a public figure who has been, whose dating life has been talked about for so, so, so long that she would be like, fuck it. Who cares? Let them talk about it. But that's the thing. She is not able to like, that's why I'm so, so, so long that she would be like, fuck it, who cares? Let them talk about it. But that's the thing.

She is not able to, like, that's why I'm so positive that Closure is about Kim Kardashian because she actually is not the type of girl that's moved past this stuff. She's actually, you know, I don't know if vindictive is the right word, but like, she is the kind of person,

like, and it's all over folklore how angry she is at the people that have done her wrong how and and she is justified but with this this was taylor because she did not need to tweet this and and she can use her social media however she wants but i just think it's the most innocuous joke in the world it's been told a million times. No one cares. No one thinks less of Taylor Swift when they hear a joke like this, which is, oh, you go through men like Taylor Swift goes through guys, whatever. Just a reference to the fact that she had a lot of boyfriends for a while that the public was picking up on. And look, is it misogynist? Sure. Because we, we look at her and we sort of like,

you know, rake her across the coals for her relationship struggles. And we don't do it to guys like, and that's been said a million times. But my problem is like, it's, it's always going to be punching down with her. Like she's the biggest musician in the world.

The show is about like a mixed race, single mom and her daughter. Like it's, it's women created it women wrote it like no one's out to get you with this dude well i have an interesting thing to bring up contextually which is do you think she saw the britney doc and was like they're doing that to me i have no idea but she also should know that her story is completely different from brittany's courses course, of course.

So I don't think so. I just thought it was a little ridiculous and sad that she felt the need to go after this show. I think there is something to be said about her maybe drawing some parallels and thinking, I have had my sexuality

scrutinized. I've had my dating life scrutinized this is violence and i have to like speak out against this i just think this was an interesting moment and an interesting reaction to that moment where like i did not know about this fucking show and me neither she helped him out in a huge way maybe that's also part of it. There are people online who are like, this is it. This is guerrilla marketing where

Taylor Swift promoting this Netflix show because she has a relationship with Netflix, whatever. I actually think that's 100% what it is. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. But she also did call out Netflix in the tweet. She did, like, Spongebob, like,

caps, lowercase, caps, lowercase. I'm like, there's too much going on here. Like, she, you could tell this was, like, a very reactionary thing, and, like, she was upset. And, like, that makes total sense. Yeah. I just think that, like, this is, this is, this is a, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

It's, it's, it's a trigger. It's clearly a trigger. It's clearly a trigger. She couldn't believe the joke don't know. I don't know. It's a trigger. It's clearly a trigger. It's clearly a trigger. She couldn't believe the joke was still happening. Like, you know, she went through a lot of grief because of, you know, content related to her relationships. I just thought by tweeting this, you actually brought so much more attention to that. Again, she can use her social media however she wants. If I was her, i wouldn't have made an

issue of this but also like i don't know how much it upset her clearly it really upsets her um yes but you know luckily she's got all the fucking talent in the world to talk about the way that she feels like and i think that this album like evermore i think it's really so much better than the first few times i i let myself listen to it i don't think it's perfect because there's just there there are three songs i would just cut um which is kind of my issue with almost everything anyone puts out now let's go through track by track. So we start with Willow. Girl, this to me said first single in a way that Cardigan never could.

Willow has what Cardigan wants. Thank you. Yes. It's like with albums like this that are so like works of art, capital W, capital A, I understand that they don't feel the need to like give you a first single, but it is just kind of nice to capital W, capital A. I understand that they don't feel the need to give you a first single,

but it is just kind of nice to feel like, oh, I could definitely hear this on the radio. And then when I do hear it on the radio, I feel like it fits there. And Willow to me is like a great first single and fills that purpose as well as being a great song in its own right. Which I can't say that about Cardigan.

I can't say that about Cardigan. Willow is the perfect representative of this album. And it would play on radio in a way that you'd be like, yes, of course. And the Dancing Witch, Elvira remix. Oh, please. She was getting witchy before witchy came to the culture in a big way again with Ms. Harkness.

And I will say, when I heard her say, wreck my plans, that's my man. I said, you might hear me saying that during sexual intercourse. I might have to tell a man who's getting me plowed to wreck my plans. You might catch me saying to a man, life was a willow and it bent right to your wind while he is analingusing me. Oh my God. You might be hearing me say, that's my man. Right after I bleep. You might catch me. Hold on.

Hold on. One more. You might catch me saying, I'm like the water when your ship rolled in that night to a man. The more that you say. As he is tugging me and my balls. Yes, ball tugger. The more that you say, the less I know. I really love this song.

But I feel the album gets better when we go from track one to track two because champagne problems, you know, I love. This is my favorite type of Taylor and because champagne problems you know i love this is my favorite type of taylor and i feel you know what i think is a good throwback for this type of song back to december like her being like okay contrite contemplative yes just being like i'm not gonna give myself any credit here like i hurt someone it didn't work out and you will be so much

better off without me in your life romantically I love it she doesn't really have that many of those songs yeah it's a lot of like fuck this guy but this is not like that which is fine like if that's her ratio then that's her ratio but I

do I think that's a really really good apt comparison. Let's move on. Yeah, the protagonist does not try to absolve herself. And I don't know if this is her here in autobiography song, but it was beautiful. She said

to someone, go find someone who's going to appreciate you and not leave you standing. Okay? The person who did it best with autobiography was Ashley Simpson. Oh, autobiography was the best autobiography. And that's actually rule of culture number 60.

Ashley Simpson, autobiography was the best autobiography. Yeah. What do you feel about Gold Rush? Gold Rush? Maybe I don't get it. Everyone seems to really love it. It took me so many times to get it.

The first time I was listening to it, I was like, the melodic shift is just not a straightforward pop melody. It's sort of tricky. Pulsating. Yeah, I like that. And I didn't get that at first.

And I was just like, I was nervous when this song was happening and first and I was just like I was nervous when this song was happening and I wasn't getting it because I was like oh no is this album going to be super like experimental like am I not going to get any straight forward like pop jam on it and I think it exists

in a really sweet spot between those two like it does something different but it still is a bop like and i will say the song really came to my it came to life for me when i saw benito skinner dancing to it in the in the fields perfect and just i mean he was doing every single move in the book and he really made you realize like you can fucking wreck the dance floor to this song. I think he posted that and he said like when people say like you can't dance to Evermore

and then he proved us all wrong. Oh, he proved us all wrong. Also, like when you listen to the lyrics, like it's about like, it's about your crush being out of your league. And it's about thinking that. And I think that's kind of like, like, I don't want the gold rush. Like I am not of the energy to compete with all these girls. You are so perfect.

That is real. And it's so kind of like, it's very illustrative. And I feel like the whole gold rush imagery and the whole golden child of it all. The song glows gold in a way that- The metaphor is strong. It's very strong. Very deeply that. Literary queen. Now

this next song, Tis the Damn Season made me feel like maybe Tayla listens to Lost Couch. You think this is Lost Couch? I think Tis the Damn Season is Lost Couch language. I think it's like Aidy coach language. I think it's like 80 Bryant language.

Okay. Okay. I think this is like something our friend miss 80 Bryant would say, but you don't think she would say that is the damn season. She'd be like, tis the damn season. I can hear her say it right now. Tis the damn season.

Um, well, I think it's a great song. This is the first line in the album where I was like, Taylor's here. Ready? Want another line? Taylor or Taylor? Taylor.

No, Taylor is here throughout the album. Yes, of course. Taylor poked her head in with this line. Uh-huh, uh-huh. The so-called friends who write books about me if I ever made it. Like, I just thought that was so Taylor. This is Dorothea. I know, but I'm just saying Taylor definitely wrote that line.

Like, Taylor was sitting there, like, with her tea and tit. Her eyes went black. And Taylor wrote that one line. And Taylor. She is fucking Pazuzu. She taylor she's fucking pazuzu she is pazuzu girl pazuzu possessing um so but this yes this is dorothea is the narrator of the song and doug says a low vocal key for her she's in the basement on this whole album though yeah she really is doug did doug just listen to this one song and was like,

oh, okay. To the damn season. Doug, hold on. I do think we need to talk. We need to bring Doug in at the end of this. I really want to see what Doug thinks of Evermore. I think it's just like, he'll be coming in.

He'll be coming in. But I feel like this is a good song. It a christmas song and i think it's a good song for anyone who knows what it's like to keep coming back to that one man anyone who keeps coming back to that one man i know my sister bowen keeps coming back to that one man he doesn't have to go to tupelo to get him but he goes. I'm trying to pull myself away. We all know what it's like to not be able to pull ourselves away from the dick, okay?

And that's what the damn season is about. It's like, this girl, young Dorothea, she goes home to her hometown and... And wants the dick, ha ha. She wants the dick, ha ha. And she gets it each and every time. Should we move on to the track five of this album?

The big track five. Toler big tolerate it one of the only songs on my first listen to this album where i was like yes tolerate it this is an incredible song about not feeling validated or loved back by a partner and you know the imagery i'm gonna paint a portrait of you with my finest colors and also this that's sort of like 1800s of it all and also to know she uses the words fancy shit love it this is 2021 Taylor writing a timeless classic about unrequited love even when you're in a relationship waiting for your man to come home and he don't give a shit about you yeah Yeah. There was another song I love about this. I'm in my penthouse half naked. Yes.

I cook this meal for you naked. So where the hell are you at? Jealous has what Tolerate wants. Sorry about it. Sorry. Even for a track five, a Beyonce song, I did you. Wish that you and me me You could feel this feeling I never broke one promise

And I know when you're not honest Now you got me yelling That's because I'm jealous Go, Bo. Do it. Wow, he doesn't know Beyonce lyrics. I don't. Beyonce self-titled was a while ago. You know?

That is the classic. Okay, mother? Wow. Was that 2014? 14. Yeah. December 2014. I skipped it, but Jealous was one of my skips.

I'm sorry to say. What? Oh my God. Jealous is my favorite on the album. No, I was here for fucking blow. Typical, like, run-of-the-mill faggot. Fuck you. You are a dime a dozen. You like Blow.

Groundbreaking. You really broke ground with that one, Queen and a Half. You really broke ground with that one, Queen and a Half. That's really good. That's almost as good as Croc a Seaward. Croc a Seaward i fucking love i wish i could use that so we probably can um no no so tolerate it we love them we'll cut them we'll cut

no no cutting no cutting ever all right i also thought that in tolerate it it's kind of cool how her voice gets stronger as the song goes. Did you notice that? I did notice that. And that's, yeah, I like that too. And I think that's such a beautiful artistic choice. I don't really have anything to add. You came with the notes.

Well, Tolerate It's fabulous. Well, it's probably because I knew we were doing this and I thought we should at least put our academic drag on. Sure, sure. I just saved it for specific songs. Anyway. I mean, what do you think about... I think he did it, but I just can't prove it.

I really... This was a song that I really disliked on the first listen, but over time has really grown on me. I'm going to tell you why you hate it. Why? After you finish your thought. Finish your thought and then I'll tell you why you hate it. Why? After you finish your thought. Finish your thought, and then I'll tell you why you hate it.

Because I compare it to Goodbye Earl? No, that's like... No. I really like that. I just, in terms of like, a different kind of storytelling song, like what drives it is different from a lot of other Taylor songs

in terms of the storytelling engine. But why do you think I hate it? You have said you're maxed out on true crime. And this is inspired by true crime. This song is literally written because Taylor loves true crime. And I think that's why you don't like it.

And I have to say, I really liked it the first time I listened to it because I was like, oh, that's really different and I recognize this and now in listening to it again i think it's just like it's a great hook it's like a well-executed like simple type of country rock pop song but i wonder if we've heard this song a million times and that's why it kind of feels like, and we've maybe heard it just done in a way that didn't feel as overstuffed as this one is like goodbye Earl. Like that's like a very clear narrative. The narrative here is clear,

but like the bridge is like all of a sudden there's a million things going on. A million things happening. Yeah. Yep. She's really trying to track her narrative here and like it does check out, but it's, it's stuffed. It's well, she's always been wordy.

She and I have that in common, where we're just very wordy, and it kind of works against us a lot of times. What are you talking about? I feel like the... It sounds like Before He Cheats.

Well, it's all of i mean like i said take this song give me two black cadillacs any day like you know that carrie underwood song i don't but work that's a really good one i just think like i've heard her vocals great on this like i think it's the i think he did like i just think she delivers it really well and i think it ends up being very satisfying especially the last tide but um i think it just it if i'm judging it like compared to other songs that are like this i don't think it's better or worse i just think it's this it doesn't offer anything new to the conversation it just feels like taylor finally did her version of this, which is cool.

I just don't know if it's like a big hit for me. Was this one of your songs that you would cut? It actually wasn't. Okay, let's keep going. Mine are coming, but not before. Actually, happiness is one of my favorites. I love happiness. Love happiness so much.

The sitting in every emotion that this song has, like the way that this song is able to get across pretty much all the emotions that you feel when a relationship ends. Like it mentions like the shock of it, the disbelief, the vindictiveness, the fact that like it becomes about things, the memories, the nostalgia of it,

the eventual like understanding of why things happen, the need for the other person to validate the fact that you were not just a bad thing in their life. That's something that I really identified with. I remember like when we did our acid trip, you cried, you cried. I did cry. And I really, I remember I realized I had a big realization about my first relationship ending. It was like,

I just wanted him to, you wanted him to not think you were, that you were a bad person. It's not even about being absolved though. It's, it's more like it's, it was more more like i just want to know that you'll always care you know what i mean like like i i hope that because our relationship did ended that it's not this thing of like we feel like because the narrative of breakups is what it is like we can't still care about each other and look back on it as a fond thing like there is happiness after you there was happiness because of you there was happiness because of me

there will be happiness after me like that that's such an important thing when a relationship ends i i think if you can get there like it's something that that's really how you get closure on a relationship and i think that this song like really gets that really beautifully illustrates that yeah this is taylor playing a boy again and i just want to say yeah here we love this song oh i just i'm sorry to compare it to betty betty no many have bet but betty betty is Betty has. But Betty, Betty is, I think one of my favorite, favorite Taylor songs ever. And Dorothea is very good. Totally different, going for a totally different thing.

Yeah. But I just think Betty is something that like swells at the end in a way that is so satisfying. Dorothea is a nice vibe throughout. I don't know that it really grows or dynamically changes from the beginning, but I think it's a lovely song. Yeah, I think it's a lovely

song. I think Dorothea is not trying to be the star. You know what I mean? I know, yeah. Dorothea is not trying to be... She's not trying to take any space. That's something I do like about Taylor in this new era. It feels like she's... And I, of course, love whenever every song is a hit like it feels like she's and I of course love whenever every song is a hit

on an album like that's why I love 1989 like because the majority of it are huge smashes but like feels like she on these albums are like no this song is like a more simple thing about it's a simple guy who lives in a simple town and he wishes that this girl who went off to become a TV star Dorothea

would come home and live a simpler life with him because he knows that she doesn't need all of that such a lovely song like such a lovely narrative and i think it's really sweet and cute and um it wasn't one of my favorites when i first started because i think it's not trying to be the star but now that i can listen to it as as a part of a whole i i do really like it a lot and there is something to dorothy that is cute there's a little bit of taylor in there let's move on i think this is a cut for you this is a cut from we now get to coney allen which is a huge cut for me because i don't need this like retreat on these themes i feel like it's a

the ninth spot on an album is a tough spot to put a song that like melodically storyline wise like thematically like just says a whole bunch of the things that we've been hearing like these themes have been throughout the whole album already we don't need coney island and i also like controversial opinion i don't need any male feature on a taylor. We don't need Coney Island. And I also like controversial opinion. I don't need any male feature on a Taylor album. I don't want to hear a man's voice. Ed Sheeran caught

shaking. You're goddamn right. I think Endgame would have been better if it was just Taylor. I think Future has to introduce us to the world that is, this is a hip-hop song. Sure. And then you have Taylor come in and it would have been great if she had two verses instead of just one,

because her verse did end up being the best. Let me take it back. I don't need any, I don't need, I don't need the national and I don't need Bon Iver on these albums. Like I just, I get that there are huge parts of making them. I just personally,

whenever their male voice is cut in, like maybe it's their very specific baritone sound. I'm just like, no, no, no. Like stop bringing me back down to earth. I want to be up in the sky with Taylor. It's taking me out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just don't, I don't need it.

I don't need it. Do you? I also feel like it's not even specific to Coney Island, which I know sounds dumb, but it's like she's trying to elicit all these images of like, oh, all the times we spent on Coney Island. No.

But it's not even like, I don't even think it's. She doesn't bring up the Nathans. She doesn't bring up skeeball at all. She never talks about riding the cyclone. She never talks about taking the damn shuttle bus into it, honey, or the ferry.

She never talks about taking the F train all the way down. She certainly doesn't. Cause you know, she rode in a black car honey it's about class at the end of the day this song is about class and it's disgusting and she obviously didn't doesn't know coney island not in the way that my girl beyonce does who famously shot the xo video in coney island it's actually a rule of culture number two beyonce famously shot the xo video in Coney Island. It's actually a Rula Culture number two. Beyonce famously shot the XO video in Coney Island. That's a

Rula Culture. We're not going to compare Beyonce to Taylor anymore. It's too Kanye of us. Let's keep going. I'm going to let you finish, but Ivy is one of my favorite songs on the album. I think this is one of her best songs.

Period. Period. And that's on period. And that's on period. The lyric, like lyrically, it's like, Oh my God,

what did you just do? That's incredible. Yeah. The Ivy growing all over your stone house. Girl, you are not able to help these feelings. They will cover you. And I love this again,

this infidelity thing like notice this is a track 10 and illicit affairs is a track 10 so i'm wondering if there's something there because there's the discussion and um sort of because they're sort of similar sounding too illicit affairs she's the other woman and in in ivy she is the person who is doing the cheating so it's it's i mean i guess it's a nice inversion too i just think but i just even if you take the infidelity out of it i just think this is a beautiful love song and i think i think i think she kind of wants to make it more about how this is like an all-consuming love and that the asterisk on it is that she's already married or that she's already

you know her hand has been promised to another yeah she loves oh god damn my pain fits in the palm of your freezing hand taking mine but it's been promised to another yeah she's such a good writer i mean like she loves to be in a position of you know this is this is very bridgerton this song that to me this is just like she loves to be like emotionally corseted, I feel. Yes. I, can I also say, I guess this is technically a verse, like the, just going straight from,

and now I'm cutting clover blooms in the field spring. I'm just like, that is such a musically like, oh, I love that. Like that's, I just think this is such a well- well produced song on top of being one of her best written songs lyrically. Yeah. I think this is fantastic.

It feels like this song Ivy is like the reason why we have folklore. You know what I mean? Like if she is going to do a project like this, like the reason that that's so exciting is because we can get something like Ivy out of it. Right. Ooh. Similarly, I would say for the next song, Cowboy Like Me is also... I love Cowboy Like Me.

Groo! I love that song! Yes! I love that song. Yes! Cowboy Like Me got you a Groo. Gets a Groo. And also, here's what i love about cowboy

like me i wrote the word obsessed i'm actually unclear at the end of it if like these two people that have like i get the sense that like they've met their match they're scammers and they've met their match in each other and i'm actually and i love this about the song i'm unclear at the end of the song whether or not taylor I'm unclear at the end of the song whether or not Taylor is writing it from the perspective of having just been conned by this guy as well or that she knows that she's gonna con him because she says I'm never gonna love again I'm never gonna love again and I feel like you can look at it a couple different ways like I'm never gonna love again because I found the love of my life it's you my equal or I'm never

gonna love again because what we're not hearing is all of this led to me getting conned the way I've did it to many other people. I've been tricked. Getaway car. Very getaway car. Very that. And I don't know.

I just, I love that about it. And I love the, I love like the slower pace of this. What would you call this song? I don't know. It's just like, it sounds like a national song. It sounds like the piano, you get guitar. Yeah, it's just like it sounds like a national song it sounds like the piano you get guitar yeah it's just like a blues like yeah bluesy

doug says bluesy yeah thank you doug i love cowboy like me really really wonderful wonderful wonderful love cab like me so our our next one is long story short and we did talk about this one but this is this is taylor being like taylor, we know Taylor exists inside of us. And I feel that up until this point in the album, it feels like the most old Taylor and that it's like her talking to herself and her fans being like, here is an assessment of the stuff

that we all know I went through. In that way, it was throwback-y to me. Yeah, yeah. I love that line, past me, I want to tell you not to get lost in those petty things. Love that.

Yes. Love that. Girl, you know, you know Taylor. Love that girl. And then we have Ms. Marjorie.

Marjorie. Lovely song. Lovely girl. Beautiful song. I hope to one day write a tribute to my grandmother in this way.

It made me feel sad. I mean, and this obviously is the point, but it does really i mean she has that line where she says um i should have asked you questions i should have asked you how to be that's so and she does it this is minari it's almost like she's writing down in her yeah right it's it's almost like she's writing down in the song, like, what she remembers. Everything she remembers her grandma told her, like, never be so kind. You know what I mean?

You forget to be clever. Never be so clever. You forget to be kind. And it's just like, you get that she takes all these things to heart now and wishes she had had more time. And that is emotional. You know, I've lost both my grandparents and or all my grandparents both my grandmothers and um you know those are relationships that are finite very sad and also you hear marjorie finlay's

vocals sampled in the song right those like operatic sounds that's taylor swift's actual grandmother she found she found she found like she found the recordings and just sampled them in there. So she's, she's on the album. I'm actually, this sounds weird. It's, it surprises me that she has not talked about Marjorie up until this,

her ninth album. She normally has like really dug into her personal history since the beginning of her career. And I'm just like, I can't, it's so surprising that it's taken this long to talk about someone who clearly means so much to you and inspired like your

musicality yeah I was surprised to not know about her either yeah but maybe maybe she was like waiting for the right thing I mean I think this is something this is a beautiful as beautiful of a tribute as you can write to that kind of relative your grandmother like I think this is something that she

probably waited a long time to do and she wanted to do it right. Yeah, it's really pretty and she sounds great. And we should also say, Taylor's vocals sound great on the entire album. And on, I can't wait for Fearless, Taylor's version. Love Story, she sounds fucking amazing.

She sounds good. Mature, but still bright. She's still going for like the brightness of like 2008 when that album came out like she's still like she knows exactly what to do vocally and like even though her voice has matured so so much tones have changed

I think she's still able to like have the right intention with what she's trying to do yeah in each different song. The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends.

Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy. What? You told her? Not today, Satan. Not today.

The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom, and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career

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I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. played against legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them. And we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of types of dudes are there, Gronk? We got studs, wizards. We got freaks.

Or dudes dude. We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dude's dude?

We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's move on to closure. Yeah, I don't need closure because I feel like she, unfortunately, sort of leaned into a bad instinct of hers, which is to sort of prolong a narrative by saying you've completed a narrative. And I just don't need it.

I just don't need it. This is like a clean. This is like a you don't think this is like a cleaner. No, I do not think this is like a clean. I think clean is about something completely different. I think and also if in a world where we have clean and we think they're about the same thing we certainly don't they're not i'm not saying they're about they're not about this i'm not saying they're about the same thing no it doesn't it i i just feel like it it feels tacked on to me especially when you have marjorie which to me is such a beautiful closer because i

would also cut evermore the next song i and again i just i liked evermore i just don't need it i i you just hate that bonivere is on it i you just hate that Bon Iver is on it I don't hate that Bon Iver is on it I just I feel the album reached a natural conclusion with Marjorie and everything else after that it feels like a de-heighten and I don't need that

I don't need like a cool down after Marjorie I feel like that was the beautiful way to end the album and the two albums really yeah exactly and I feel like you know we know she be releasing Like that was the beautiful way to end the album. And the, and the two albums really. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like, you know,

we know she, she be releasing bonus tracks. So like have these be bonus tracks then. I actually really liked right where you left me, which is one of her bonus tracks on this one. Really good. Really good. I haven't listened to it enough to really form like a solid opinion on it.

Neither have I, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a little,

it jumps out a little bit more than the other tracks. it requires less of a close listen we were talking to my friend patrick about it's his birthday by the way happy birthday house happy birthday house he was telling us that he loves ever more more than folk like he does many do i'm so curious about that i feel like folklore like i also also feel this way to a certain extent where with the impact of folklore coming out and it being fully out of nowhere and it being such a shift for Taylor, the impact of that can never be matched by the Evermore moment.

And so it's so hard to listen to Evermore and not have it feel like B-Sides in some way i know i know they're different things i know that she had different approaches to them as albums i just think it feels like an addendum still here's what i would throw out there if evermore had come out first and then folklore came out would you feel the same way about Folklore? Would you feel that Folklore's content felt like B-Sides? See, okay. I will say, giving it more of a chance to feel like two different projects, I think Folklore is stronger.

Oh, wait, wait. You're asking me what I think that Folklore sounded like B-Sides to Evermore? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. No, no. I think Folklore is the superior album. Yes. Right. And so I was going to say say that like i i think if it was reversed i think if evermore had come out first we would have been fucking thrilled yes but then folklore on its own i think just stands out a little bit more like i think that once we have time to really ruminate i think it's gonna going to become clear that Folklore is the one.

And I'm happy to have Evermore, and of course count Evermore as as valid an album as any of her other ones. And there are tracks on Evermore that I'm like, please replace, not that this is how it would work, but please replace some Folklore tracks. I made my Folklore playlist,

famously, but now I'd have to change it because I have new favorites. Some new favorites. Some new favorites. She was, people were saying that Evermore is the more experimental album in terms of songwriting and production. I think Folklore felt more like chamber poppy,

like something that she earnestly hadn't done. Like between Mirrorball and August and Betty and like Pete, I'm just like, it was such, it was such a, an elevation in her songwriting that I was like, this is incredible.

And I still think when you compare it side by side to folk, to evermore, it still beats it out. I do think with Ivy, Ivy is, this was one of those songs to me that I'm like, you are, cause I know that Taylor Swift has been obsessed,

obsessed with Joni Mitchell her entire life. And I think with red, she was kind of like trying to write her own version of blue at the time. Um, but Ivy was her fucking nailing it with like the Joni Mitchell, like ladies of the Canyon drag, like, you know,

like court and spark, like whatever. Like I was like, you did it. Like you did what you set out to do in some way, from the beginning not that like this was her life's work to like write and produce like a joni mitchell sounding song but to have like the influence so cleanly translate to a song that is you taylor swift is amazing so i just think that like there are there are bright spots in evermore that i still think are outshined by

the overall like supernova moment that folklore still is to me yeah i think folklore is incredible that it's like i still think that it's like such an amazing thing that it happened yeah i would agree let's bring doug in for his quick thoughts doug come in doug and doug did you listen to the album in preparation it feels like you? It feels like you did. It feels like you did, and you had some comments. Did you listen to Folklore as well? Doug, come in now. So what's your sort of take?

I did listen to Evermore in prep. But not Folklore? No. Okay, all right, that's fine. And I don't know that much, so I was like, you know, I'm just going to blast through it and see what happens. And I actually agreed with you much. So I was like, you know, I'm just going to blast through it and see what happens. And I actually agreed with you guys a lot on your feelings.

And I just feel I liked happiness the best. Yeah, I think it's really good. She kind of broke her. I don't know if she's done this for a long time. But I always felt like she falls into this rhythm a lot. Her natural like and i felt happiness really broke from that and so did cowboy yeah that's that's a great observation well literally it's like we're able to make fun of taylor because it is so like

she does have her like thing that she does. Like she is very Taylor. Like there's a lot of size in the music and everything. But, um, I think what you're saying is, is totally, that rings true for me because those songs felt like a different pace for her.

Yeah. Not just like in terms of pace of the music, obviously, but in terms of like emotionally, like, like on happiness when she's like, you haven't met the new me yet i just thought like there's some something going on here that feels like a progression and for you to

not really even know that much about her and pick up on that is i think interesting it was a fun exercise for me anyway i was like yeah i'm just gonna listen like i would have never put it on had it not been for you guys i was like yeah I'm going to put it on that's so emotional you should listen to folklore too I'm really curious to see what you there's a lot of songs that sound like magnetic fields or like Jesus and Mary

chain like that era of music that I think you would really like if you like that kind of stuff alright girls see ya bye Doug we love to always check in with Doug and see what he feels you would really like if you like that kind of stuff all right girl see ya see you girl bye doug well that was doug and we love to always check in with doug and see what he feels but remember he's he worked with celine dion in the 90s and said he didn't know who she was when they were in the recording booth together so understand that shameful shameful ultimately

but i think it might be time for i don't think so honey i think it might be time for I Don't Think So Honey. I think it might be time for I Don't Think So Honey. So I Don't Think So Honey is the 62nd segment that we do to rail against something in pop culture that we hate. I think I have one. It's off the dome. Okay, girl. Honey, two domes for you.

Two tits. Because I'm about to do one off the dome too, but this is I Don't Think So Honey's time starts now i don't think so honey people only realizing oprah is a quote unquote good interview now that she sat down with megan markle um i couldn't believe when i went on twitter and was searching before we got on here the megan markle oprah interview and people were like wow oprah is a really good interviewer are you fucking kidding me literally where have you been forever and now i'm really mad at the culture i'm really mad at the culture because does oprah is a really good interviewer are you fucking kidding me literally where have you been forever and now i'm really mad at the culture i'm really mad at the culture because does oprah need to be

on television every single day to remind you who the fuck she is this is oprah winfrey motherfucker also i don't think so honey that we need the royal family to key us into oprah i fucking despise the royal family i can't believe how much time it takes up. Bitch, you need to go all the way back and understand that Oprah predates the royal family, okay? Oprah has been thousands and thousands of years, and the royal family is a blip on the radar. Oprah is culture, capital C.

The royal family is little c culture, and I don't even know what's going on with Meghan Markle. I think she should be free to walk in her own designer garments. And that's one minute. And they better be designer, honey, or I won't give a shit. I did think, I was like, right before we got on, we're actually recording this as the interview is happening. I'm going to watch it at eight.

But I did think it was funny. Like people were like, wow, it's so great to see Meghan Markle walking in her truth it's like she lives in a 15 million dollar house she's living an authentic life finally walking in her truth and it's like yeah I don't know

she's been comfortable even since before she dated Gary did you see some of the breaking tea that was coming from the I saw some of the breaking tea I saw some of the clips this week I want to comment on them. Okay. Is this an I Don't Think So Honey?

This is an I Don't Think So Honey. Oh my, Gru. This is the one and only iconic name another legend. You can't. Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So Honey. And I'm honored to say

in sharing space with him that I've become better. And his time starts now. I don't think so honey and i'm honored to say in sharing space with him that i've become better and his time starts now i don't think so honey the royal fucking family guru honey the protection of prince andrew at this coinciding with going after fucking the Duchess of Sussex herself, Meghan Markle, is deplorable. And the fact that all these bullying allegations are coming out this week, coincidentally timed with the interview, says it all, honey. It's a terrible, ancient, toxic thing. It's the reason why British tabloid culture is lethal, why it kills people, why it literally has killed royals in the past, the fact that it still exists and it still has the same cultural import that it does

is the reason why British tabloid culture is as noxious as it is. So royal family, disappear. Make Buckingham Palace a fucking TikTok house. Five seconds. Make it a collab house for YouTubers, for Zoomers to go in there and make little videos to entertain us,

because that is more valuable than what you have done for hundreds of years, you inbred motherfuckers. I don't know about all that. That's one minute, though. I'm just saying, like, they're old, and not to be ageist,

but you have to get them out, bring some youthful energy into that space, sage the fucking place down, then bring in some young British talent to make fun little videos for us. It's so funny because I was going to do I Don't Think So Honey Royal Family. And then I was like, more specifically, I want to talk about how aghast I was that people seemed to not know Oprah was good at what she does. That's crazy, first of all. But I Don't Think So, honey, the royal family, because what?

The Prince Andrew thing, like you were saying, the fact that they haven't really stripped him of his titles, the fact that they... Insane. He's only stepped away from public duty. He has not been stripped of his titles. No, yeah. He's still a eighth in line to the throne i mean they stepped

away too but the thing is just like for them to be like we're launching an investigation into the claims of megan's bullying and not like take more seriously the fact that like prince andrew was on jeffrey epstein's pedophile island like was like literally sweating his ass off when asked questions about it in that interview like the fucking call is coming from inside the house and the call is rotted and gutted i don't get it and elizabeth the second is like not without lies she's not it she's never been it i was in london during the diamond jubilee and i thought i'm not impressed i said like karen huger said to miss wendy osefa herself i'm not impressed you know like karen huger said to miss wendy josepha herself i'm not impressed you know who else is not it fucking charles is obviously not it and prince

william is not it because also let's not forget the fact that they pivoted so hard to piling on megan was because there was many allegations that prince william was cheating on kate middleton girl i'm so excited my my girl is starting to work on a project that i think you will do very very well in i hope it was just his birthday oh i celebrate you thank you for celebrating trusa i celebrate you you are my teresa you are my teresa should we sing it out we should it out. What do you think is the song we should do? There is happiness after me. But there's happiness because of me. That's just a nice little soft way to end the podcast.

Swift. Swift. Bye. Bye. I'm Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there.

Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer.

Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. behind-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football.

Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.