Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Taylor ALISON Swift" (w/ Matt & Bowen)

Episode Date: October 26, 2022

Dear Readers... it's us. Hi. We're the problem, it's us. But there really ain't no problem here, because today Matt & Bow offer up the Midnights episode of Las Cultch. Call it a review. Call it a track-by-track dissection. Call it what you WANT... to. Much to discuss! Has Taylor or Tayla taken over this time, or is this a new TS musical persona entirely? What, exactly, is the distinction between midnight and 3 AM? Is it just us or is there a lot of LAs Cultch on this album?! Is this a fuck album? So many questions! It's what you've been waiting for... and no we didn't forget about Carly Rae! Listen now! Meet us at midnight (or whatever time it is where you're at).See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy. What?

You told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to

take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. Heart Women's Sports. delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me,

you won't want to miss this one. Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. One of the great weeks of life. For many reasons. I wouldn't even chalk it up to one single reason. And you'll notice I didn't. You'll actually notice I didn't even chalk it up to one single major Taylorific reason. But there is so much to talk about, Bowen.

At the gate, let me just say, we need to savor times like these. There's a lot of bad stuff going on in the world. You might've had a personally rough week yourself. I'm talking to the readers, the Katie's, the publicists. However you identify out there. However you identify out there. Weeks like these where we can all have fun talking about art shall we say

is oh my god you you're a word coulda shoulda freaka bowen woulda coulda shoulda that is a song and a half that's not to jump ahead but i feel it's spiritually, this generation of Taylor, this is our all too well, period. Wow. It's getting disrespected by being on bonus tracks, but also that doesn't matter. Well, we can talk about this later, but the 3AM songs have a specific intention and DNA behind them. And we'll talk about that later. Anyway, lots of great reasons. My nephew's bris was on thursday

oh my god how was the bris and the bris did everything go well okay can i tell you mr aaron weiss is his name champ screamed i was i was expecting something like this during during go ahead do it But it was actually, this was what this boy did. See, if I had to imagine my penis getting clipped, I think it would sort of feel like this. No, are you kidding me? Your foreskin

getting circumcised, I think, if you get it into adulthood, it's apparently like you're knocked out and you're on your damn back for like a week this kid was just on Tylenol for the next day and that was it not even the next day the next 12 hours anyway it's a beautiful beautiful thing

welcome to the world Aaron Mr. Weiss. Mr. Weiss. He's so sweet. He broke his collarbone on the way out. What?

I know. Oh, no. Because he's a big boy. I think that that happens. I think that happens. No, and he's doing great and the family's very happy. Anyway,

Brist was Thursday. I wrapped on Nora from Queens. I wrote a whole damn essay about how much I loved that. And it's been a good week. And then Midnight's. And then Midnight's. And you also saw Tar. And I saw Tar.

You've had a reaction to Tar that I couldn't have even dreamed about. I knew you would enjoy it. But you're saying big things. I think this is one of my favorite movies of all time. Period. Period. Sooty said the same thing I've now seen it again

I've seen it twice I'm about to see it again with Josh and Aaron because we went out to the club we went to Sika Sika Sika which is a monthly

hyper pop party in Brooklyn by the amazing DJ The Lumen does not exist yes it's such a fun party and every song that came on

me, Aaron, and Josh were going this was what Lydia won this was what Lydia won this was what Lydia won the Grammy for yeah Lydia won the Grammy for that but our theory now is that Lydia's EGOT wins are all for acting yeah well that makes sense because she certainly was

doing a convincing portrayal of someone who was safe to be around oh my god I'm so happy you liked it so much I loved it for more on Tar for Matt. I loved it. For more on Tar, for Matt Rogers' and Guy Branum's thoughts on Tar, please listen to last week's episode. They said everything that needed to be said.

I loved the movie. I'm so happy that you did, and I also don't want to take anything away from you. So if at any point during the discourse today you feel like you absolutely have to get out your Tar-rific million dollar pun right there, responses to the film you just stop everything and say wait hold on this scene and you can go off okay thank you so much but uh look

how did you experience the album and let's just be real let's just be very real it's time to be real yeah it's time to be real an app i am for sure deleting um oh yeah but did you know because i was with people on thursday night at halloween horror nights and of course the album was out we were all like oh my god we're so so excited and so then i was with some people that were like there's rumors of a sister album and i was like you're you've got to be fucking kidding me and they were like yes midnights east coast midnight is getting an album west coast midnight is getting wow so people heard that that's what was that's what the rumor was the heavy rumor on the streets of halloween horror nights which were as

spooky and ooky as ever by the way and the weekend sure has a haunted house and i was literally screaming running from the weekend from abel from abel himself yeah so thinking in my head while i'm running away from abel in a maze themed to him and his music i was like is there about to be a 3 a.m drop and then lo and behold at midnight there was the midnight's 3 a.m version and i was like oh my god the seven new songs because of course she had to stop at 13 for the regular album we all know numerically that's the girl and then these seven songs when i tell you i went home that night for me two out of my three favorite songs are in the 3am section let's we could talk

about this but let's just say the fact that you heard this at universal studios let's just establish here now if you want your swifty news first the place to be is city walk what you need to do city walk is the source for swifty news well city walk is the center of hollywood it's actually why city walk was nominated one of the best um neighborhoods in la in the last cultural awards and actually i believe i believe it did not win it did not win oh no city walk city walk did win city walk did win best. Oh, no. CityWalk. CityWalk did win. CityWalk did win Best Neighborhood in Los Angeles. That makes a lot of sense because it really is.

It's where the interesting artists are, I would say. And the people who are really plugged in with their ear to the ground of the entertainment industry are at CityWalk. Absolutely. And at really renowned restaurants of great esteem and repute. What was it? They're having dinner at Bubba Gump. They're getting a post-dinner drink at Margaritaville. These are

where the movers and shakers go. They're picking up a fortune cookie at Panda Express. They really are. They really are. And so, yes, I'm there, I'm hearing it, and then the 3am version rolls around, and wow. And to find that that also had a concept, which you alluded to earlier. Would you do want to find that that also had a concept, which you alluded to earlier,

would you do want to get into that? Okay. So I would say 13 tracks on the core Midnight's album are very sonically and thematically tight. It's contemplative. It's quiet. It's subdued. And I would say the 3am tracks are at the witching hour of 3 a.m where your mind truly goes to some wild places that is the more emotionally um unwieldy time yeah of the night

and you really your mind goes to the extremes midnight is actually a pretty chill time of day that's the thing too is like you know when you're a baby and time of day. That's the thing too. When you're a baby and they tell you, oh, it's exciting to stay up till midnight on New Year's, you sort of get this thing in your head. That it's the most thrilling moment. As your cognition is forming, you think it's a feat

to stay up till midnight, but then you get to be an older person and you find out that midnight is not so late. So the things you're thinking about at midnight, you can find in these first 13 tracks definitely contemplative definitely it's me by myself sort of thinking to myself yeah but 3 a.m i mean these are the the issues that arise and cause a restless mind 3 a.m is where you go i think there's been a glitch 3 a.m is basically when you go did you see the photos? No, I didn't, but thanks though.

First of all, you're so right about the chaotic nature of the 3AM tracks because that first verse of Paris, I am obsessed, Bowen. I've never heard something so Taylor in my life. By the way, we should just say, a lot of people have been asking, is this a Taylor album or a Taylor album? I have an opinion on this and I want to know if you share it.

This is a Taylor album, but this album is Taylor having taken a breath. And this is Taylor having said, you know what? I'm certainly Taylor. I'm certainly on my shit, but I'm taking a breath so I can collect my thoughts. This is Taylor with sound mind. This is Tayla saying, let me use my talents, my gifts for

a contemplative end. This is Tayla energy with Taylor lyrics. Truly Bravix Taylora again, but I just want to leave that in the folklore Evermore era because this is something different. This is a culmination i agree i think i'm just gonna come out with it

right away okay i don't think this is taylor i don't think this is taylor i think this is something entirely new and it just came to me you, I proposed to you a new sort of binary breaking persona. You did. I'm actually not going to present that here tonight at this time. Okay. What I am going to present is Allison. Oh. This album is the first Allison album.

Oh. This is- Allie. Allison album? Oh. This is... Ally. And this album is Ally with one L. With one L. Oh my god, this is Ally. And an I, not a Y. An I. This is Ally.

Ally. I'm sitting in this. First of all, let me tell you something, Bowen. It's you, hi. You are not the problem. It's not me. With this assessment, you something Bowen it's you, hi, you are not the problem it's not me with this assessment you have really killed it girl I never stare directly at the sun only in the movie

wait let's go track by track I can't do this can I actually explain before we do track by track let me just quickly explain Allie I got my notes out go ahead tell us educate us the readers which by the way dear reader explain Allie. I got my notes out. Allison. Yeah. Go ahead. Tell us. Educate us. The readers. Which, by the way, dear reader.

There's a lot of lost culture in this album, and we'll get into it. The Taylor Swift theory, the unifying theory of Taylor Swift is this is someone who is constantly making the self.

She's constantly figuring out the identity. This is the difference between Taylor Swift and let's say Beyonce. Beyonce is thinking about her legacy in terms of a community and in terms of the greater sort of experience of her music, which is that we all love

and are obsessed with a beyonce drop right and we can all sort of get behind a beyonce album when it comes out and her music is about a collectivism it's about like my community let me give the spotlight away from me and put it on a big frida on the house of avians on like i'm just and this is just renaissance okay yeah i was gonna say this this feels like a renaissance like assessment yes yes with taylor it is about an individualism i don't even mean this in a pejorative way but taylor swift's music is all is usually only about one person and usually 99 of the time it's about her yeah this is really interesting because actually

i was walking to get coffee earlier and i was thinking that in the same regard it's really interesting to see her lyrics start to turn inward as opposed to outward so the younger taylor was always like the problem is with other people like the issue my issues are with other people i've been wronged i want something i can't have it was very much connecting with her audience in the regard of like, we are externalizing. Yes. And then in the last few albums,

and I think it's been really interesting to see her sort of bring this like Taylor performance energy, this like fresh poppy, fun performance energy, and this vibe to what is now, I think the first time that we're seeing her in a

consistent block of like the last three albums turn inward you know what i mean and she like for example with anti-hero that to me is self-consciousness anxiety like anthem yeah yeah this is and honestly it's taylor being aware of taylor and being like sometimes i'm so humiliated by myself and you know what i mean like if someone at her stature that's like pretty bold and for us to all understand and get on a certain level that this is a pop song that we all can enjoy but it's very much about the individual i don't think we've seen that since like thank you next where we're like this is this artist's song and probably no one else can ever do it in a way that's going to hit on this scale that means such a specific

thing for such a specific person and that is a feat 1000 i've said this before i'm like oh my thing with taylor's music is that like you can't really throw it on at the club. Right. Like, and so it's not, so it is like, because it's this confessional song, singer, songwriter tradition, but the thing, okay. So I listened to into it by Sam Sanders.

We love Sam. Yeah. He did an episode about Taylor Swift. He had on and powers from NPR, an amazing music writer. And she has all these wonderful insights and her idea of like the unifying theory of Taylor Swift is that it's someone who kind of like a bob dylan was able to marry singer-songwriter confessional person with um writing about a persona yes and kind of even more so than bob dylan like is writing about

the way she is perceived in a way that not that many people have really done in like modern recorded music. And so antihero is a perfect thing where it's Taylor Swift writing about Taylor Swift, which we haven't really even blank space, which is like her other self-aware. Bob is like pure Taylor. Pure.

Cause there is one, there is one intent behind it and it's to tantalize totally and so with midnights you kind of realize as a listener that her whole career has been like the painter painting a self-portrait it's it's van gogh it's like every now and then she'll paint a starry night you know a still life, a vase or something. But like the most impactful work and not in like a vain reason, not for a vain sort of motivation is her painting herself. Yeah. At different stages in her life.

And then you go, wow, this is really interesting. And then it gets everyone talking. And so the reason why, like, I do think that the online discourse is a little divided people are like it's not her best album i don't understand it i think it's because it is again that individualist thing where it's like this is about me and so that's harder for people to get behind because no one else is taylor swift right exactly and i also think lyrically it's dense and in this type of music that can sometimes be a little bit hard to find lyrically like I feel like it took me I loved it instantly but it took me about two or three listens on each song to really figure out

what everything was about because there's there's both a lot going on and also it is weirdly sparse minimalist too so but what i loved is like and what i've always noted about her is she is so good at just very simply getting an emotion across like i always walk it all the way back to you belong with me you're on the phone with your girlfriend she's upset she's going off about something that you said because she doesn't get your humor like i do like this is what every girl thinks about the guy that doesn't look at her is wow like they're there and it's specifically like latching into she doesn't get your humor like i do you immediately know you are that girl you are her like we are experiencing it and to see her sort of get more intelligent with the way that she wields words and uses and just like becomes more emotionally intelligent over time.

She has maintained that talent, but now it is her lyrics are, this lyrically is her, her best album. And literally like there's something in every single song where I have to be like, what did she just say? Like ultimately an antihero,

like I'll stare directly at the sun, but never in the mirror. Like that is really in a, in what's going to be a billboard. Number one, hot 100 hit. Like that is some shit. Totally.

It's like, Mariah Carey is clapping. You're so verbose. Queens recognize verbose Queens. Literally. mariah is gonna write taylor a letter about this one for sure she's gonna say hey girl i just want to say i see what you did there i i know the thesaurus was out period indefinitely I'm gonna love you, baby. I'm gonna love you. Never in a million years after everything we've been through did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy. We were friends. How could you do this to me?

I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Wednesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles

women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We wanna share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby

and iHeart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13

to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations. I was a desperate, delusional dreamer, and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer.

I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to

miss this one. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian.

Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom.

At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's time for the Track by Track. It's time for the Track by Track. And so we hit play. And first of all, can I just say something? Because a lot of people are going to be like rolling their eyes.

I know a lot of the, sorry, but fags that listen to this are going to be rolling their eyes because we didn't mention Carly Rae. Let me say two things. Oh my God, no. I went to the Carly Rae concert the carly ray concert at the greek the other night she was so much fun she puts on an incredible show so great all the hits so great live so she looked stunning her backup dancers looked like heather gay and whitney rose from

the real housewives of salt lake city it was so shocking but her also her set was amazing the moon was talking to us ket Ketamine life. Ketamine life. And she knew what she was doing because she stopped one song in the middle and said, wait, wait, I want to take you into my fantasy. And I was like, this nymph is going off. Like it was giving Tinkerbell vibes

in a way Julia Roberts could never. Wow. Her album is fab, but I'm sorry. My, my, all my time and energy was taken up by this one thing. I did give Carly,

Carly Rae a couple spins. Oh, you have to, but you got everyone. It's fab. Go listen. Shooting star, Ben's excellent album.

Oh, my favorite is the first track. Surrender my heart. Surrender my heart. That's what I want from Carly Rae. You know what I mean? Yes. Just really solid song. I mean, I like that she's trying to

do something a little bit like a beach house. I'm always like, I can't really connect with this, but I like that she's taking a rest. Beach house is really giving Cobra Starship to me. It's giving good girls go bad. Got a beach house in Malibu

and probably gonna hurt your feelings. I mean, that's a great hook. That's a good hook. Listen to Betty Who Big. Really solid album. God, we're so spoiled right now. We're really up to the neck in pop, girly time.

Oh my God. And then the other day in the car, I was like, you know what? We're putting on Renaissance for my ride to therapy and back. And that one's always going to be right there too. This has been a year. A wonderful year. Forget about it. You know where I'm going on Wednesday. I'm going to see the Muna concert

and if you're going to be there tonight, I guess. So tonight I'll be at the Muna concert. Getting my life. Alright, so are we going from track one Let's go from track one And we're doing all 20 Period Track one Lavender Haze

This to me when this started When I heard me me at midnight I was excited I was like I'm sorry but confirmed This is a Taylor album The way that she introduced herself like i was just i i was already smiling big and you knew that that was just gonna be giving us vibes her vocalizations her random vocalizations are popping on this album okay speak on this i'm just saying

that sweet nothing i which i also love and that's getting erased like i'm just saying like things that she found vocally here like non-lyrically i just think they're up there with her best yeah okay i trust this okay my the thing that i always think about when i listen to this is the jay sweet credit who uh wonderful writer producer has done a lot of stuff with drake did heated on renaissance yeah and i saw when they dropped the credits like days before the release i was like this is going to be interesting because i thought maybe it was going to be a drake collab i thought maybe it was going to be a surprise drake collab because there was a bunch of rumors that there was a taylor drake collab coming which didn't happen but who knows who knows baby it exists and we haven't heard it yet sure sure sure this one i didn't really know what to make of it on first listen i was like

interest like she she's kind of um the the the track ones are always always interesting with her interesting with her yes and i don't mean that in a in a bad way either no i mean like it's a it's a very deliberate thing every single time yeah like to me the one on folklore is a choice for the first yeah you know and this was giving me the one like i'm doing good i'm on i'm on some new shit like that to me was giving like it's the same vibe is i've been under scrutiny yeah oh yeah yeah beautifully yeah oh yeah i was like okay so we're talking about the things that like the same vibe is I've been under scrutiny. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Beautifully. Yeah. Oh yeah.

I was like, okay, so we're talking about the things that she's going through publicly. Here we go. And I was like, this is Taylor. And I thought, oh,

I hope this isn't too indulgent in this regard. But, but then it was really just, again, she brought it back to the safety that she feels in this new feeling in the new relationship, the lavender haze, which I don't know if you saw her interview about this,

but she was watching mad men and someone mentioned being in the lavender haze, which is feelings of new love. That's sort of like hazy feeling of new love, that nice comfort in a new emotion. That's positive. And I love that she used this because the, really the whole album to me is like starting and ending book ending as a

love letter to Joe. Yeah. And so in that way, like by the time I got to the end i was like oh lavender haze is gonna hit really hard on second listen totally i think it's a sensitive song for galers for sure i think galers are incredibly betrayed because they they see the word lavender they go she's gonna come out she's gonna come come out. She's going to come out. And now she doubled down on the hetero life. She's simply not queer. That's what she was saying with Lavender Hayes. And that's okay. Okay, everyone. It's actually okay to be straight. Swifties, it's okay to be straight. It's actually rule of culture number 49. Swifties, it's okay to be

straight. I've been saying that for months now I'm going to start saying it today and then every day going forward for the rest of my life hey everyone, readers, if you go up to a straight person today just put your hand on their shoulder and just say it's okay to be straight and you can tell if they're straight

because the outfits are terrible oh my god I dragged well it's interesting that you say meet me at midnight you understood that it was taylor immediately this is this is the period that i meant to put on the end of my thought earlier which is ali allison this is taylor singing about taylor and vice versa and therefore it is the middle ground it is collapsing the binary into the middle name which is allison yeah are you ready to say that miss big girl who we meet in the anti-hero video

is big al that's big al you gave her the name tay i said all caps for me it's in all caps, Tay. Tay. Like Tay-Tay in the wind. I don't think big girl is Ally. Ally is... Ally is the person with the Zippo lighter. Damn. Ally is like... I'm peering into the plasma. I'm peering into this really... Because you can't touch fire, right?

You absolutely can. You'll get burned. You'll get burned. It sounds like a Taylor lyric from like Red. Yeah, that's definitely Red era. But it's like, that's Ali. Ali is someone who is like, I am everything, everywhere, all at once.

Shout out to Michelle Yeoh and the Daniels. Let's just make sure that we constantly keep their name in the conversation. 100%. The Daniels who directed episodes or one episode of North Queens. Let's bring it back to that. Thank you. Let's move on.

Speaking of excellence. Maroon. Baby, the way we moved from lavender. Can I say, when an album gives colors i can really see that and i can really feel you're not colorblind anymore no i this album actually cured my colorblindness and can i say maroon is actually a tough color for me because it's tough color for everyone i'm sorry i don't mean to erase it's just i never know if what i'm seeing is actually maroon in fact last night i really wanted to wear a maroon shirt because I knew I was going to be around some Swifties at the party I was at.

And I really have a hard time with that color. I often think maroon is, I think brown is maroon sometimes. Brown, purple, red. It's a really tough color for me. But when I heard this song, I opened my eyes for really, I think the first time and saw Maroon and Bowen. I went out yesterday and I bought a Maroon shirt. Congratulations. Thank you. Sit in that. That is so powerful to me that my friend who has been afflicted with colorblindness this whole life goes, I bought a Maroon shirt. Yeah. One of the vaguest colors there is.

And now my color blindness is just a memory. Weak with the memory. That's a real fucking legacy to leave. Can you get out of here? No. No. No. Absolutely not.

Well, talk about maroon. I mean, my thing with maroon is it's just like it's giving me lord it's giving me pure heroine era lord which is really my favorite lord to be honest with you when i first experienced her like to me she's digging in i'm just like everything about this song is just rich just like the colorically, this matches what's happening lyrically in a very full, complete way. To me, the definition of a vibe. Yes. Okay? And when you said, you texted me, this is if Dress exploded into a regular album.

And honestly, Dress, to me, is a highlight of one of my favorite Taylor albums' reputation, or should I say Taylor? And to watch Dress, to me, is a highlight of one of my favorite Taylor albums' reputation, or should I say Taylor? And to watch dress explode, to watch that seed become this garden, as you said on Instagram story, like a fucking poet. You said that. I was inspired by Taylor. I really, really, really, I heard you say that and I was like, goddammit, what a time to be alive. I love this vibe. Maroon is in my top five it is of all taylor of of no of this album i'm not ready i can't like but if you're saying dress i know for a fact that dress is one of your favorites it is in the whole of and if maroon is sort of like this sort of evolved or maybe laterally the sibling of dress

i feel like it really has a shot at landing it it does because dress is definitely in my top 20 of all time i'll say that it's definitely in my top 20 like it makes it makes a greatest hits non-single version like deluxe album for me like on taylor's if i had to compile everything i think it says it clearly is important like in terms of her discography because it is it is really like a a basis for what happened with this album i fucking love maroon i love that you love maroon i love maroon and this might segue perfectly into the next track the album made sense for me once you got to antihero antihero made lavender haze and maroon work for me does that make sense i'm it does i love that we can disagree in this way

maroon was is the bridge or is the ramp up to i think the thesis of the album which is anti-hero but i'm happy anti-hero comes in the three spot you know what i mean i feel like it would have been tough to open up with anti-hero because it's just so it's just such a moment like okay so get this let's just play baseball for a second in a lineup in a lineup you don't put your strongest girl first you put the girl who's gonna get you on base first who can steal some bases and make sure that we get her home miss number three three and four are really your power hitters okay so for anti-hero to come out doing what it does in the three spot that's giving baseball down it's giving most valuable player vibes it's giving the silver slugger.

It's giving, don't worry, girls, we're scoring runs on tonight because I'm up at bat. Because Antihero and Snow on the Beach are three and four, and they're going to knock it out of the park. Antihero is her best lyrics maybe ever. I simply, like I said before, self-consciousness anxiety album. And it's such a specific, thank God. Like, I mean, just like,

this is one that I cannot stop listening to. And to see the video, I texted you. I was like, she is now, I mean, now we're actually visualizing Taylor and Taylor. And I love it. I mean, just like the analysis here of self i i i have to take my hat off your hat is on you don't have to take it on but my hair is a mess right now but you don't want to see it that's okay don't worry i i love you at any hair that's a real

fucking legacy to leave it's a real fucking legacy now god she like was able to capture this which is very i'm gonna say kate bush like that is like such a i'm never gonna say like avant-garde but it's very like like it's just very like something's happened she really went for something she hasn't done before i think anti-hero is kind of a standout in like her whole discography because it just yeah it's expansive and tight at the same time and also not for nothing yes and also to to endeavor to write a song that's going to do all of the work it's doing it better be good you know what i mean like and also like i just i don't know i'm just obsessed like especially nowadays that a song this good is a billboard hot 100 hit if we're to look at the canon of songs in the past

couple years just because of the way music pops off like charts wise like lately you don't always get like you know actual important music being number one because it's like i don't know the tiktok of it all etc but this just like feels i feel grateful for it well i think taylor is also she's not writing for tiktok but she knows that it's this force in music now and she goes and she understands that she enjoys being on it obviously and she's who knows what her fyp is but she's she understands how things get surfaced and she understands what makes certain songs take off on it so i have a suspicion that she goes what is a lyric that lends itself to like a tiktok thing it's me hi i'm the problem it's me and then like i knew

exactly you knew immediately that that would i was like okay well that's going to be in a few hours that's going to be the only thing you see on tiktok i'm the problem it's me unholy found dead unholy was the only song on tiktok that and the beyonce challenge that's a cuff it and like now it's like you put on tiktok it's only it's me hi i'm the problem it's me i was gonna compare it to like bad habit by steve lacy which again like number one great song but it's like a perfect like way for anyone to be like what's my bad habit this and let me like let me put that truck on for anti here it's like oh what's my problematic thing about myself that i'm gonna like yeah display and like show to the world and it's cute it's innocent or you can get dark with it you can like you can kind

of go any direction and i don't know i feel like taylor she's never gonna like sacrifice herself to a social media platform in that way. No. She will always be about the songwriting. The story will always do the work in her music, but I think she knows how to dial it up just enough for her to be like, this is going to fucking explode.

I mean, it also happens again and again and again on the album where it just feels like, and that's kind of always been, she's always had these little turns turns of phrase and like funny little weird specific things she said that would pop off but like you know you can literally see in your mind's eye how many girls are gonna do lately i've been dressing for revenge and on the transition like look like a fucking stunning hoe yeah you know what i mean like i just my hats are off like honestly anti-hero i also love the video and i love when

she sat on the roof with herself that was giving me fire island vibes um lost coach is all over this album say that and i said to you i was like i think you need to text the girl and say that we saw taylor and taylor in the video we saw it and we know that she's aware of the binary now so is this a is this a lost coach album? She did not text me back. You texted her? I texted her. I did. And I think maybe she...

She's busy, boo. She's busy. She's busy. She's going to get back. She's going to get back. But I said, I'm just going to say, I'm choosing to believe that Burbig says Tay.

Tay-la. Tay-la. In the video. And also Matt and I have decided that giant you is named Tay. Tayla. Tayla. In the video. And also Matt and I have decided that giant you is named Tay. And I don't know if she'll see it, but. She's gonna see it. Honestly, you know she's getting

so many texts. You know, wow, can you imagine what Taylor Swift's phone is like when she when, maybe she puts it away. I'm sure. I don't think so. Can I tell you, she's looking at her phone and that's okay. And she should. And she should.

She's worked hard. Now, let's move on. Snow on the beach, shall we? Snow on the beach. Girl. Girl. This one, first of all, weird, but fucking beautiful. My girl's cursing on this album.

Let's talk about the cursing. We hear fucking with a hard ck you know what i mean like it's really digging into the my favorite way i hear people say the word fuck like fucking beautiful you really like gave you that uck energy in the booth uh-huh as much as being made about the history of the cursing and i will say and admit that it has always kind of thrown me off just for a microsecond until maybe midnights where i'm like she's she's got it it's not getting in the way of my listening experience because even on the one i'm like oh i'm on some new shit like okay let me just get back let me just get back into this yeah yeah i'm teetering just a little on the balance beam.

Right. And now I go, good for her. Yeah, now we say 32-year-old woman who I believe curses. But I feel like... I'm with you every step of the way, by the way. I get what you're saying. It's like when you're... It's been part of her journey, yeah.

Literally, it's going to be like when Ellie says to you one day, yeah, I'm dating this guy. You're going to be like, you don't say that. And it's not fair for us to think of Taylor Swift that way. Honey, we should never gatekeep Taylor from, of all things, language. Are you fucking crazy? Who do we think we are? She literally, on a meta level, she says the word slur on this album when she said later on

an album you were doing lines i was like taylor where is the pregame what also you were doing lines maybe i'll say this for my own things so honey but tantalizing everybody on twitter especially gay twitter saying that she's she did poppers in the studio for i'm like no how brand new is that thought way to go everybody well i go it's not a poppers album no i will say it is a fuck album though it to me it's a fuck album it's a fuck album it's not it's not poppers at the club let's say no and like everyone's going this is ketamine this is poppers i'm like can we just leave the only drug that's referenced is cocaine yeah maybe she's doing lines of k i don't know but like it's a lot of k it's a lot of k and the nasal spray is now what's in fashion actually i recently

encountered the nasal spray and i do think it's a game changer it's efficient it's very efficient yeah i'm sure she'd be proud of us for using snow on the beach to transition into this nose drug uh land but what do you make what do you make of the lana the lana feature because it is i loved it to me the lana feature was giving atmosphere and that same way that like the dixie checks were doing we're giving it on soon you'll get better you know what i mean like and mary morris giving it on you all over me yes you know it's like so so good but everyone's like she fucked over lana no no no i feel like lana probably was even preferring to be an ambient force on the track it's also like can

you be fucked over when you're on a track that's now going to be number four on the hot 100 just from being on there you went and hung out in the studio with taylor swift you gave ambience and energy and atmosphere because she was inspired by what you do. Taylor Swift said that she believes Lana Del Rey is one of the greatest artists of our time. This came from the horse's mouth and that she was so honored to be able to work with her on this. Like, obviously, Taylor has been inspired by Lana vibes. Like, let's let's be real. Like, I mean, Lana's huge.

Lord is huge. Like, there's other like little references here and there like that have been there since the beginning of her career. But like they're big influences in terms of her move towards this type of music. So I thought it was actually fucking kind of rad that Lana was on this track because it says it says to people that are like, ah, she's just making a lot of music. It's like, no, mama. I have actually Mother Teresa's blessing. She's here on the track. She's giving atmosphere.

So shut up. I think this sort of is the full circle end to Wildest Dreams. It's like you wrote a Lana song. And for, I guess, years now, people are like, she's writing too much Lana. She's just kind of cribbing Lana. But now it's like, no, no, no. I get like people ripping the feeling that there's a lot of reference in that.

I said, let's get out of this town. I understand why people feel that, but then like the rest of the song and the energy of the song is so Taylor Swift. Like that, that I'm like, I don't,

I, that was not fair. I think for people to be like that, but I disagree too. Oh, that bridge. I'm sorry. I'm thinking about while the

streams were getting distracted while the streams is my number one of all time it's it still stands but um but but yeah snow on the beach i just love the way that the chorus ends like snow on the beach like i just love that like like weird it's like very weird and downward it's like very sultry it's it's very evocative like and yeah i mean the weird but fucking beautiful again like i can't wait to see the girls ticked off that one i might even yeah why not let's move on you're on your own kid this one's getting lost and it's a gem because you know why i think people are feeling confused because they're like this is not a track five and at first i agree very much is i was like this this doesn't sound like a track five it's not like it's not her spilling her guts

in that way that we're accustomed to at this point in her albums but i think it's a track five with distance i think it's her it's very much like um the lucky one uh off red it's like her sort of from a different point of view singing about someone who is going through a very transformative time in their life. For me this was very specifically about her. Oh absolutely it is about

her. But I think it's her like looking back on herself. I think maybe it's like national era like when she just moved there. Or just like definitely a time in her career in life when she was like succumbing to whatever pressure she felt from the industry. Yeah.

To me, this is about that thing of you felt it was going to be one thing and now it's another. And also wherever you go, there you are. You know what I mean? Like those are the vibes for me lyrically with this. I mean,

scanning the room of better bodies just to find out that my dream wasn't rare. Like whatever that, I mean, that to me is just like, that's giving diary. Yeah, that's for real because- That's Honesty Zone. This is her Honesty Zone song. Very much so. And I also think it's a perfect track five for Midnight.

Exactly. Because I'm up thinking about this. The whole thing is like basically one long track five already. Yeah. And so why not like give it a little accent in that spot where you go, this is something a little bit different than what you're used to. That's my theory. Yeah, I would agree.

And I think it's just watching this one get lost in the conversation. I think it's because any track five is going to have a high bar or people are going to feel like they want to be wowed by it by the time it's over. And I think because it's it's been preceded by these these tracks like an antihero like feels like on another album. Maybe that's the track five. Right. But then we have this one. And I just also musically, I really, really like it, too.

It's just it's getting lost. And I think it's going to be a grower for people. And I think by the time she plays this in the Midnight Stadium tour, we're all going to be singing every word. This fall on Bravo. It's time to turn up. Think you've seen it all? I don't think you've been a good friend to me lately.

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so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks?

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New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, I don't think this means anything anything but i feel like i was sort of taken by the fact that there's not much guitar almost no guitar on the 13 tracks on the core midnight's interesting album except for i think you're on your own kid where it's like like it's but it's just like not that many chords Like the progression is just like one note for the most part. And as in like,

it's one, like it's just her. Literally one note. Yes. One note. And so I think that's just, it's a really, I think she knows to like switch it up at this point in her career for album

10. It's like, let me actually do something else. I love it. I love it so much. No notes coming from me on your, on your own kid. I just think we need to, you know, have some respect something else. I love it. I love it so much. No notes coming from me on your own, your own kid. I just think we need to, you know, have some respect for it.

I really do. Now let's get to, this is a really important one. This is, I love Midnight Rain. I love Midnight Rain. First listen, I was like, this is, this is a huge one for me. I love the, the like octave this is a huge one for me. I love the octave jump. In the same. I just love that shit.

The choice to modulate it down for the first two times you hear that chorus. God, first of all, can we say, Imogen is all over this album. That's also a huge influence clearly clearly and did you readers did matt rodgers not call it when he said i'm expecting death cab postal service i don't know what to say aesthetic uh you are a seer you are i don't know you You are. I literally, this is chaos magic because I didn't,

I didn't even like, honestly, it hasn't even been top of mind. Cause I'm not thinking about like me being right. I'm just enjoying it. But I was right. And it literally gave the vibes that I said it was going to give. And I was texting with friends about it.

And they were like, they were screenshotting early text being like, how did you know when you said the death cab thing? Like, how did you know? I was like, bitch, bitch bitch i feel i'm taylor i really do i sometimes like i feel i'm taylor i i feel that way too about you fucking love this song and i literally like it's it's just like you think like in the in this middle section of the album like all right now are these the ones that are sort of hanging out here because they're the ones that like

ostensibly like maybe we're not loving as much like this it never drops no for me like midnight rain and then into question i fucking love question i think thank god for this conversation because i'm realizing the more we talk about it the more i love it because i will say even after day one i was like I don't know where to place this album in the great ranking. Yeah, yeah. Wow, but Midnight Rain into question, which is like where you turn

the damn vinyl around on side B. Oof. A great little schism, a great break in the progression of this album and the story it's trying to tell. It's not even, it's telling the story I think as an album, but I think it's also just like vignettes.

It's like in a similar way to folklore and evermore, like it's just little stories and thematically linked by this thing. But it's, I think it's a stronger theme than those. You know, what's funny too, like, so when,

when I first heard this album was being announced, I had heard this weird random rumor that what was supposed to happen this year was that the 1989 re-release was supposed to happen this year and then i think she ran into some maybe legal stuff or like something happened with it where she pivoted and then it was gonna be the whatever album it was and then when i heard it was midnights and it was a concept album or as presented as a concept album i almost thought to myself is this going to be songs from the entire span of her career that she's going to repurpose and make into something new? I thought maybe, was it a concept album that way in that she was literally reaching back throughout her life?

But lo and behold, I'm so happy that, and she has said it herself, she's debunked the rumor. This is all new work. She's said that but like that i think i'm really happy about because she has the like peace of mind and also ability to look back on the things that she's gone through and like also assess where she was so that it doesn't feel like necessarily you know it so it doesn't feel super super taylor in the lyrics it feels taylor in the lyrics with

taylor energy because she's had the time and the space but still the things that she's singing about you can tell still really still probably keep her up i mean you know like by the by the time we get to woulda coulda shoulda i'll have more to say about this but like there are certain things that you don't ever really come to terms with and it feels like there are certain things that you don't ever really come to terms with. And it feels like there are certain things in her life that like pop up and she drops things like, you know, her age when she is talking about a certain thing or, you know, Easter eggs for Taylor fans that like only we would know that we know exactly where to place this in terms of her emotional and public life so that we can sort of have a better glimpse in but i'm really happy that she wrote new work about things that she's gone through in her life and not like reached back and like it didn't feel vaulty you know what i mean i get what you're saying totally no shade to the vault tracks ever never ever but they're vault tracks but they're vault tracks they were not the front-facing works that like she

like initially released and so like that's its own little narrative anyway midnight rain i mean i really don't know what to say other than i love it perfect i mean question perfect that's just fun and also the thing about being kissed in a crowded room with all your friends i was like you better go off taylor and explain a situation that you and very few people know. Have you ever been in a crowded room and someone kisses you and everyone's making fun of you with a clap? 15 seconds later, they're all clapping too. Relatable queen. Wait, I can't tell.

You're saying that is relatable? No! but okay for me the the only way i related to this and i'm gonna get a little honesty zone is like it's like i get i get a little embarrassed anytime i'm like making out with someone it's so embarrassing club and then you're you're you went with your friends and they're all going oh my god who is going with i know and sometimes they even see you do it and they yell out someone's not discerning who has done that you did that to me on new year's eve bitch i didn't when on new year's eve in mexico city i made out with that guy and you said someone's not discerning i didn't say that bowen i could i make that up

i'm so sorry that's so awful and i'm so sorry but bowen so awful. And I'm so sorry. But Bowen, I'm really not that discerning. I thought it was funny. And I also thought I brought it up to you. I have such amnesia about this shit. That is so mean. I'm a mean, I'm a bitch. You were being a fun bitch.

And also in the grand scheme, it didn't really matter. But I did remember it. And I did think to myself, like, I could make an issue of this, i'm an issues not oh man okay you call me a whore why don't you no no no that's not what i meant i just meant because i'm certainly not discerning yeah well we all know this to be true and and you have been see that is the difference between you and I is anytime I am with someone who does not meet your standard, you tell me in a very clear, thoughtful way. And I might do it in a way to you that is just vitriol. You're more Taylor and I'm more Taylor in that regard. I'm sorry. You don't have to apologize

to me ever. I thought, ultimately, I think it's funny. No, of course I do. Okay, well, anyway. Okay, so then the thing that I guess we don't relate to is the 15 seconds later, they're all clapping too. Like, what happened in those 15 seconds, I remember? I think probably that, you know, it's that moment of, like, you kiss someone at a party or whatever, and then, like,

they go away, and then you turn to your friends, and they're like, uh, what? And then you go to your friends and they're like oh what and then you go girl I don't know and in that 15 seconds everyone's like oh my god isn't life funny and then everyone's clapping like this we're all clapping for the situation and the way we'll look back on it later and that all can take place

in 15 seconds period a beautiful time capsule a beautiful period shall we talk about vigilante shit yes and I am still on a journey with this one A beautiful time capsule, a beautiful period. Shall we talk about Vigilante Shit? Yes. And I am still on a journey with this one. I like that she kind of has like a Billie Eilish-y song, like an FKA Twigs, early FKA Twigs type song.

I feel like this is peak Tayla in the album, period. Yeah, to me, this is like a reputation track. This to me is like more blatantly i can see on another album for me if if there was a one that i was on the longest journey with it was this one but then there is some shit here that i really really really like i mean i like like the fucking line about the doing lines like it's essentially like she'll never take her foot off scooter braun's neck. And why should she? No, she shouldn't. And also, it sort of connects later to Karma too, because you can tell Scooter is one of those things she will never fully let go.

I love it. And she probably will make music about this forever, no matter where she stands on it or how she views it. It feels like we're always going to get content about this because it was a betrayal on a scale that needed to be and in a weird way like she made it public explicitly yeah in a way that that truly really bothered her and then to hear her you know talk about his white collar crimes because he really is like a flop yeah i i respect it so much from her because this is someone who values work and her art so much that

if you come after that she will kill you cat eye drawn so sharp it could kill a man I'm going to bring in Mandy more into this conversation because she gives a line reading in Tangled that I think is so impactful.

And I don't know why I'm thinking about this. I need to hear it. It's at the very end when Mother Gothel played by the incredible Donna Murphy. Yeah. It's like she's about to kill Eugene. She's about to kill Zachary Levi's character. And then Rapunzel is begging Mother Gothel to not kill him. And then she goes,

but if you kill him, then I will never stop trying to run away from you wow and i'm like that oh my god i have chills do you really well mandy's vocal performance in that was absolutely stunning stunning oh my god can we talk everything finally feeling that's when my life my voice is'm a bitch. My voice is so... I've been partying a lot, so I'm not going to be singing. Certainly not belting out tunes from Tangled,

the hardest music to ever sing. Sondheim found dead. But Mandy with that line reminds me of Taylor with Scooter. It's like, she will never stop coming for this man. No, no. Her foot is on his neck forever. We respect. We respect. Bejeweled Her foot is on his neck forever. We respect.

We respect. Bejeweled? I love Bejeweled. To me, like, the first time I listened through, I was like, Bejeweled really stands out. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Fun. It's really fun. I think it's, like, the closest thing to, like, Club Banger. Yeah. That we have on the album. Right? Is that fair to say?

Yeah, I would throw this one back to, like, 1989 almost throw this one back to like 1989 almost. It's very like you know, you know what? I'm having fun tonight. Yeah. Is this the one where she's like, and by the way, I'm going out tonight? Yeah, love it. I love it.

She's throwing this one over her shoulder. I love it. I love it. Oh my god, we may have to move faster because, damn, we're digging into this. We're really digging into it. Labyrinth, vibes it's giving a it's giving taking a breath it's giving that point in the album where we're just like okay now let's it's a cool down you know what i mean let's stretch before we kind of do the home stretch i really, really like, oh, oh no, I'm falling in love again. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yep. It's really good. There's just, there's a lot. You know what this gives? Treacherous in a way. I was just going to say. Yeah. Wow.

The way my sister understands. It's so like you self-surrender. You surrender to the thing that you're already going through. And I'm obsessed with that as a concept when Taylor writes about it. Well, because that emotion is so core in Taylor. This thing of like being at the

precipice of a big emotional decision and deciding to take the leap. That is so her. And so like it's nice to have a spiritual big sister to treacherous now in this way because you know in all of these ways we've heard taylor update herself and like call back to herself but also it's sort of that same idea of wherever you go there you are like she's still that same girl but now we get to hear her express that in such an interesting way from treacherous to labyrinth

i mean there's a dissertation there absolutely i wonder if they're teaching it in that taylor swift songwriting college course that exists can we just do one day in that class where we get to lead the lecture i would like to go i would like to go in and like honestly i want to do two days i want to go one day where we go sit in on a class and then the second day where we lecture well no i want to do lecture one day and then I want to literally TA. God, what do we call? It's the class after the lecture. What is it?

What are those called? Eccloquium. Recitation. I want to do the lecture and then I want to do the recitation where it's smaller groups. And you and I split the class in two and we each lead a smaller recitation

where we all like discuss, like just like a little discussion. I'm sad that we're split up. I, I think we, what, what do you mean? I don't want to,

I don't want you to be over there teaching with them and me over there teaching with them. You're going to have the funner group. I don't think so. You're the more, everyone's like, I wish I were in Matt's. Do you know they won't say that?

Yes, they will. Matt, I think you, I don't think you understand that you are the shining star. Karma is the next song on the album, and don't you

feel that people are gravitating towards this one? Like, it feels like the energy is with Karma. Do you understand the backstory behind this? No. So, there is a theory that October 2016, Taylor Swift 6 was going to be an album called Karma. Correct. Oh, yes, yes.

I did hear about this. Yes. And it got tossed because her public image was in danger. Because of the whole like you know kim right tape so then they had to scrap most of it and i'm sure some of the songs kind of got sprinkled throughout lover and reputation maybe even folklore nevermore but doubtful but uh karma was supposed to be the sixth album and then, yeah, and then they had to sort of push the calendar because it was

just every two years in October that was the release window. And in some way, releasing this album in October 2022 is like her getting back to that timeline. The original timeline. And October 21st, 2022, Taylor Swift 12,000 days old.

What? Do you think she knows that? Do you think that's intentional? I don't know, but it is intentional that it's also Kim's birthday. There's a lot of closed loops here, okay? I love it. And with Karma, I feel like it is closing the loop

on that in a way where it is a song that was meant to be on that album, I think. Because I feel like Karma is a little bit of a departure because like Karma is my boyfriend. Karma Because I feel like Karma is a little bit of a departure. Because like, Karma is my boyfriend. Karma is my boyfriend! Karma is a god!

I love it. Doesn't it feel kind of like, it kind of stands out a little bit. And even sticking out a little bit. You want to know what? It's more, because we've also, we've heard her talk about this a little bit in the album already.

And vibe-wise, it is a little bit more, it is a little bit in the album already and and vibe wise it is a little bit more it is a little bit more fun and like more intentionally like you know like i feel like i'm like you know skipping down the road when i but just this idea like i love what i love is like the lyric rub against the type of song it is because it is like a fun pop song it's probably the most straight up pop song on the album i would say yeah maybe until we until later when we get to my truly my favorite song which we haven't yet spoken about but um i feel like to end this song with the idea of karma's a relaxing thought like that she's really letting us into the darkness there because she's like you know what actually maybe this doesn't make me a good person and you can judge me if you want but it actually makes me feel good to know that karma will get these people

like no these people are not going to get away with this shit you know what i mean and here we are sitting here this week and kanye is there's there's no coming back done Yeah. Done. There's it's, I mean, he's, he's completely done and it is, it's now crossed over whatever line you were waiting it to cross. It's crossed. Like not to even give him any more space on this, but like, I'm sure everyone knows like what he's been saying, the fucking anti-Semitic shit he's been saying.

He's a complete maniac and a monster. And if he needs help, he needs to go get it outside of the public eye because unfortunately people are still fucking listening and it's sick and he's bad for the world and karma got him period the closed loop here i think is really apparent yeah again i'll say just on a lot of levels and um there is some chatter about how like, why is she still singing about her grudges? And I think it's just like part of it. I think you have to embrace that as would not hesitate to say that. I mean, she's admitting to it here. Like she says, karma is a relaxing thought. I am relaxed. I am at ease thinking of you, someone who's hurt me, being in pain.

You know what I mean? That is vindictive anthem. Totally. And that is something that not everyone would admit to. You know what I mean? And especially like in this fun little cute song, sonically. You know what i mean and especially like in this fun little cute song sonically you know what i mean it's just it's almost really interesting that that thought which is a really deep dark thought comes in this like song she's like scoos in her head voice you know what i mean

i just love it i know i know it's way more interesting than you think. Oh, 100%. Okay. Next song, Sweet Nothing. I'm obsessed. It's the closest aesthetic match to like the promo materials of this album leading up to it. 70s, folk singer songwriter, Judy Sill, you know, Carole King, like Lauren Eero, that kind of thing. It's so sweet. It's just, it's beautiful. And I mean, Mr. William Bowery appears on this one yes yes and if that's him playing the piano you better go off that that he he's the electric keyboard no very yeah um oh the electric keyboard yes whatever

that's what i meant whatever yeah i know totally totally i wasn't correcting you um it was sweet nothings and that oh This is just campfire. It's giving, we're writing this song and we're having fun and we had a great time writing it and it's sweet and it's just like a nice little sweet little offering. I just love it. I love Sweet Nothing.

It's very New Year's Day without like the circumstance around it. It's just a mundane beauty. It's not even like the morning after a party. It's just, oh, this is our everyday life. And I also love that

it's so clearly a collaboration between them that then leads into Mastermind, which is about the totality of the courtship. What a great closer the way that it goes into mastermind just like, and also how plainly it ends. Like it just like,

and now you're mine. Like, I just, I think, yeah, it's that thing of like when you see someone or you feel like that pull towards someone and like, you know,

she's saying like yeah i say i'm calculated but guess what like it actually got me quite the prize at the end of the day someone i've been with for like six years now at this point and like the fact that she she sounds relaxed on this track you know what i mean like it's like the track drives but she sounds like vocally she sounds very happy and relaxed and i also want to compliment her vocals on on this album oh yeah she's really really really lived in and i was talking to someone my friend darren who said he was um he was missing some big vocal moments but for me it's like the intention here like especially like um at the end of anti-hero when she lets it get really like ugly sounding

and i mean that and i mean that in like a in a complimentary way but like to me there's so many colors to her voice in this album just as a lyricist and as a vocalist i think this is a peak i think she understands that her vocal singularity is that it's sharp she has a sharp voice as in not like uh it cuts through like not the accidental it cuts through yeah and she doesn't need to belt in order to make the impact you know she doesn't need to do like the big vocal turns in order to like get you to pay attention you're paying attention because she is like making a choice that doesn't really go big on the sort of melody necessarily, even though she is this like incredible songwriter.

I was going to say with like labyrinth, it's like, um, she goes like, she's singing in the head voice. And then, uh, Oh,

like she, she, she knows what she's like leveraging in each thing. Yeah. She's very accurate and resonant and evocative in each thing. Yeah, she's very accurate and resonant and evocative in that way. And I think that probably also does come with her being the songwriter, is like

she knows exactly where her voice is going to fit into the structure of what she's doing to make people feel a certain way. And also she knows where to place things. Totally. Even calling back to Antihero with the, tell as old as time, like just like the atmosphere that that gives that and the, the place in her voice that she uses,

she's really good at creating atmosphere with her voice. That's what this whole album is. That is a compliment. I would give this entire album is that it feels like, you know, there is actually a real range there because it's almost like two or three different people. You know what I mean? Like when she's down here, it feels like one thing. And then that feels like another person. Like, and it's almost just like oftentimes in the same song and

especially in antihero as well, you hear these different people saying these different things. It's like, that's what makes it interesting. Yeah. While we're talking about this, and as we're ending the 13 tracks, there's a lot being made about how people can't tell the songs apart from each other, how they all sort of blend together, and I feel like that is also intentional. That is also, like, she's creating

the closest thing to ambient music that she's done. Folklore Nevermore, I feel like maybe, but I think those are supposed to be differentiated projects, and each song has its own sound. With Midnight, I feel like she is going after

something, a patchwork of different midnights in her life, as we know, and how there should be some sonic thread that kind of ties them all together, you know? Yeah, I mean, i think that's a very easy thing to say about something that has a high expectation totally you know what i mean when when you turn something on initially and you're like oh these sound the same or like this is this

is more vibey which i think a lot of people were sort of saying and it was i mean of course it is a vibey album but i i hear a little bit of like an insult in that to be honest with you me too i can't explain why. Almost like she caved into doing what all the girls are doing, which is like vibe music, which if you really listen to this, like, yeah, maybe she is,

maybe it's a vibey album, but there's like tons of peaks and valleys here. It's not, you know, that sameness is not, it's not negative. It's not working against it. But my thing is like, when you were listening to something like right away and it's that event it's not working against it but my thing is like when you were listening to

something like right away and it's that event eyes type album and you need a pull i just feel like that's a very easy thing to say about the album and like we're not giving this enough space because it's of the biggest album of the year obviously like whenever she releases an album it is or it's up there at least in the top three of this year and i feel like you know it's just that's a little knee jerk for me that that comment totally and i hope we've matured as like listeners in the streaming era i'm just talking about all of us like everybody um because i think like we all sort of understood like with the other biggest album of the year Renaissance, it's like, yeah,

this is, this is dense. This is amazing. Let's like really sink our teeth into this. Yeah. I was kind of soothed by the fact that there, people were not like jumping to a conclusion with Renaissance necessarily. Like it was obvious.

Well, I did hear that a lot though. I did hear a lot of people being like, I wish I like you know the songs um jumped out in different ways like it wasn't just a piece of collective work which i actually think it's actually strong in both regards like you can turn that on at the club and let it play and have a great fucking night but also like there and no skips but also those songs are all extremely different. Yeah, or you cherry pick the ones that you want and the mood. Which is happening now. You see people starting to, like now that Renaissance

has been out for months, it's like people are, you know, there are tracks that people like. People are saying that less now that they've had time to marinate in it and so I would say let's afford Taylor the same thing. I just think maybe that is like the shift in the listening habit for everybody at least our generation where it's like

this is going to be the thing with all big albums going forward is that like we're going to have the poll first and then it's going to be a grower or it's not and then that's it's whatever it's sort of part of it We'll be wear costumes. We wear fashion. And below deck sailing. You broke the rules

and now you're here getting upset. Watch all new seasons on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman.

And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to levels to this with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby and I Heart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations.

I was a desperate, delusional dreamer. And the desperate part, that made a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer. the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.

On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez.

At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story as part of the My Cultura podcast network

available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's do the 3am. So 3am rolls.m rolls around eastern standard time where you did you stay up for it or did you wake up i woke up the next day to your instagram story of a song called paris and i go what is this and i immediately i immediately listened to paris um saw dear reader and my blood went cold yeah as a track i was like what and again we're not saying that like no we wouldn't dare say that it's not it's not a reference to us but wow what a thing to wake up to for me that's all what a gift for the readers and all of us like that there's a song called dear reader on an album that very much explores the dichotomy of Taylor and Taylor. Literally.

Hmm. Las Culturistas is all over this album. Las Culturistas is all over this album. She's coming on. Taylor's coming on. She wants to do the pod. Taylor, please come on the pod. We will give you the best interview.

Zane Lowe will fucking shake in his boots after he listens to this interview that you, me, and Matt will have. I mean, this is an open invitation for Taylor Swift to get on the podcast Lost Cultureistas. Let's just say that. Taylor Swift, who accepted two awards at the Lost Cultureistas Culture Awards, did not have to send in videos. Thank you so much for doing that, Taylor Swift. We will never thank you enough. That's a real fucking legacy to leave. That's a real fucking

legacy. Anyway, The Great War. Enter Mr. Desner. Enter Mr. Des mr desner i love i was a little bummed at first when i was like there's no desner on this album oh great war lovely sort of because he is on this track right yeah he's done most of the tracks for the 3am what i mean to say is like if we thought we were getting none of him i remember i was with jared and he opened his phone and immediately looked at the song credits and he we saw aaron desner and we were like yes we were like okay so she was just holding this back a little bit but we are still collaborating with our new pal yes yes um great war wonderful um a lot

of historical allegory here we love it um she likes her history she's's a history buff. Yeah. She'll be telling you, Oh my, what a marvelous tool. Um, and last great American dynasty. Oh yeah. Like she, she knows to like intentionally dip her toe into like, quote unquote,

for lack of a better word, Americana. AP US history. AP US history. You know, she got a five i would imagine um bigger than the whole sky this is a sweet little sad little song and i people are sort of speculating that it may be about a miscarriage that it may be about some sort of loss of some kind, not necessarily her own. But of course, we see lately,

Taylor has been exploring the concept. And really, it's been for longer than people think or say, but definitely more vividly lately of writing from the perspective of others. And I think this possibly could be that, but what a lovely song. I mean, it really is just so sweet. Sam Sanders and Anna Powers were talking about something else on this episode

of Intuit where Sam quotes Taylor and Miss Americana and is like, Taylor says this amazing thing, or she like references this, this, this thing about fame, which is that like you are frozen as a woman, especially you're, you're frozen at the age that you were famous that you became famous yeah and right and then sam is like is that why like

people still sort of like talk about taylor and think about taylor as this teenage girl is this why people are having trouble move like growing up with her or think or like understanding her to be a woman you know like, like a, like an adult person. And then Ann powers goes, I think it's because she has not had a child yet. The childless woman in America or in the world is something that is uncomfortable for people. They don't know what to make of a woman who doesn't have a child.

And so therefore she's even more locked into teenage selfhood to other people. Like the persona is sort of like snagged in that for better or worse. And I don't know, this might be a little morbid to tie into bigger than the whole sky. If it is about a miscarriage, even if it's not her own, but like,

I think she understands how that feeds into the meaning of her. No. Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. I mean, tossing all the way back to Ronan, like she's, I was gonna bring up Ron. You know? Yeah. I think that's really interesting. Yeah. I mean, tossing all the way back to Ronan, like she's...

I was going to bring up Ronan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's a great actress in her music. I mean, like she really is. And this to me, like it might be a spiritual sister to that. I mean,

in that it does feel like it's about something heavy and specific and that's like something like on the other side of the fence that you'd know not to ask about. Right, the song is evocative and i think could match up with anything you know what i mean like when i first listened to it i was like was this about a loss of a relationship and then i feel like no i think it's it might even be like rorschachy and like you know this could be whatever obviously it might be something to her but i wonder if she'll ever

comment on what this is about i I would like to hear it. Yeah, but if she wants to keep it private, then absolutely. And the fact that it's a 3am track, you know? Like, where is this existing in the file cabinets of her mind? Totally. Okay, talk about Paris because I need to maybe

get on board with Paris because it's the one that I gloss over. I don't know why. You're kidding me. First of all, I want to tell everyone I'm now on TikTok and I was eventually able to figure out my TikTok. So Bowen and I did a live last week where I couldn't figure out how to make my TikTok videos public, which is very Matt Rogers, very calling back to when I thought my computer didn't make PDFs. Because you had a porn virus. Because I thought I had a porn virus that made my computer unable to make PDFs. and i was sort of experiencing that narrative the other day when i couldn't get my tiktoks to go public and i was frustrated because i thought i was actually kind of slaying so the

more i'm on tiktok the more i sort of realize like oh this might not be good for me because i think it's eventually going to reveal who i am which is sort of like a basic little boy who loves taylor swift so i hear the song par. I absolutely lose my fucking mind. I couldn't believe the rhyme scheme of Paris and somewhere else. I loved that. Like some people are taking issue with that. I think those people should go to jail. Oh,

I am so obsessed with this song that I got on my tick tock and Bowen. I did a humorless basic ass tiktok to paris like i was a gen z-er the comments are so funny the comments are like millennial jumped out like okay the millennial taylor one person commented on my thing i need to see less yt fags on my on my on my timeline and i literally i almost respired i agree because i was so sick watching this tiktok that i created but the earnestness i i felt it was earned because of what this song did to me i unapologetically keep that tiktok up and also my transitions are fucking good okay so get get into it this song has taken me like out of who i am and brought me somewhere else the first verse i it's so chaotic to me in

the best way and just the the way that it's so verbose and then the chorus just drops you on the song like we're in paris like unless you sit and like be in that new atmosphere i'm like come on this is a evocative pop song this is what i love this is an emotional evocative pop song that is you there literally it is kind of giving me carly ray in a in a way in a way like it's giving me light, romantic, fun, effervescent. I would, I would say is the word. Um,

I just, I absolutely love it to me. Like this is the song I keep listening to. For me, it's the, it's the super base of the album. It is that bonus track that pops. It is,

it is that, that girl on the back half that was revealed later that we will remember this one and woulda, coulda, shoulda, which we'll get to. But you got to get on board with Paris Bowen because it's also an opportunity for us to be really stupid singing it. I was going to say before you even said that part, before you invited me in, I was like, I'm sold.

You've never, as soon as you said super bass of the album, I said- It is. And that was the beginning of our friendship. And when have you ever led me wrong i love this song i am obsessed and i don't want this song to get lost because again like i don't think it is and i've been posting this song a lot and people are being like my favorite yes and we need this song and i was was like, what puts this, I guess the 3am distinction, like whatever this was for her that made it a 3am song. But I was like,

this is big. Cause it's big. It's grand. And I feel like there was, it was too big for the first 13. I was going to say like, there was a, a choice to kind of subdue the core album,

which I respect. Yeah. I get that. I get. Yeah, I get that. I get that and I respect that. This is sweeping. This is like, whoa. Yeah. This is, you know what?

It's giving state of grace. It's like expansive in the way that it is like, it's up, it's down, it's out. It's like you saying that it takes you there. We are in Paris and you're there. I believe that. I see it. This is a 1989 track. Sure. It's very like saying that it takes you there. We are in Paris and you're there. I believe that I see it. This is a 1989 track.

Sure. It's very like new romantics, which by the way, came on the other day. I said, God damn, this is a good song. A song and a half.

She's a great actress in that song. She's a great actress in that song. It's poker. He can't see it in my face face but i'm about to play my ace like whoa what did you do there what did you do that to me and that's what i love about paris like paris this first verse yeah yeah yeah your ex friend's sister i mean i just love it and the outfits were terrible i loved it i was like first like, first of all, it's giving Sondheim in that the notes are the emotion. Everybody laughed.

It had to be sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It had to be sad. And I'm saying Paris revolution, French revolution. That's how I feel about Paris. Wow. It is actually, no, it is 100% giving Sondheim. I said it and I'll still say it.

It is very like, it's not the same song, obviously, but yeah, like, on their own behalf. It's very Elaine Stretch. It's very Elaine. It's giving. Okay. High Infidelity. Love. Love. Love this one. Destner is back and also just again like it's it's weird like what would

preoccupy her about this you know but it's just again i feel like this takes place outside of herself as well yes yes yes yes which i love it makes it fun for a desner track too because it's like that it feels like that's where she really started exploring that. Writing from the perspectives of others. This feels like that, to be honest. Totally. I am big, big, big into Glitch. You have been a Glitch, Stan. I think there's been a Glitch.

But this is maybe since like, and I might be wrong on this, but I feel like since Sad, Beautiful, Tragic, her most textured vocal. You can hear the years on her in a way that I love. Yeah. And also like you can hear her like working things out. You know what I mean? Like it's like, wait, this doesn't really make sense for me. Like emotionally, why is this happening? You know what i mean like it's like wait this doesn't really make sense for me like emotionally why is this happening you know what i mean like it's and it's just this to me i feel like maybe could have been on the regular album i agree but i understand why it's here because it's it's a complicated lyrical emotion yeah and so i feel like it belongs on the 3am in that way

absolutely and like the guitar there's something really bold about the production on this yeah where like the guitar is getting like dialed it's being wiggled it's literally like it's not even a vibrato or anything it's but there's something really innovative about it yeah like if you really listen to the

soundscape of this like yeah it's really really cool it's experimental and doesn't really make sense, but works. Yeah, totally. Okay, what it could have, should have. Let's talk about this. This is a moment.

This is, I mean, I damn sure would have never danced with the devil. When I heard that, I was like, how dare she? Like, that hook. Cause I damn sure never would never danced with the devil. When I heard that, I was like, how dare she? Like, that hook, I love it. It really just, it all pays off in the end. The way it just builds and builds and builds and builds, and you're like, damn.

Yeah. How? Gotta rest my soul. I miss who I used to be. Honestly, and then when she takes it up at the end into her big register, I'm like, first of all, one of the great Taylorisms on this album

that's like a timeless one is I regret you all the time. I regret you all the time. First of all, let's just say, let's call it Spade to Spade. This is about John Mayer. This is about whatever trauma she experienced. The 19 places that, yes. This is about, however, that is about whatever trauma she experienced the 19 places that yes this is about however that formative relationship whether it was romantic sexual however i mean you can read

jessica simpson's book she talks about the way this man works in detail you can listen to dear john i mean there was something that happened here at her age that didn't jibe which she i think still looks back on and is like fuck why did i let that person fuck with me like that because it messed me up like and and also not for nothing but when i say it's like all too well it's because that song and its bigness about jake and the way that she had to return to it because of how big that relationship looms how large it looms in her life and how emotionally it's such a marker for her that she came out with it and like

10 minute eyes did and like gave it its moment this song can't help but get bigger and bigger and bigger as it goes and I think it might be the best song in this work like anti hero is incredible it makes sense for the album it is the single it is the thesis statement

woulda coulda shoulda this is like this would exist on any album that she put out this is just like capital T capital S Taylor Swift in this album that stands on its own island and I

I am thrilled that we got it. I know. And the melodies, the chorus, the hooks the song is made of hooks again like her voice is the range is there, this might be her rangiest song it drives, by the end of it you're like wow

I mean the thoughts she leaves you with like this is a song this is a song. This is a song. It's the longest song on the album. Yup. And it moves in spite of that. Like it's, um,

you're right. Like I didn't think long enough about the John Mayer of it all. And the reason it builds and is fully like unleashed, um, bridled by the end is because it's like like she has been sitting on this. She's not really exercised it from her mind in the 13

years since it's happened. Oh my god! Yep. 13. You know, I... Alright, just being personal, I dated an older guy when I was 19, and it was a formative relationship for me in positive and negative ways and i still talk about it in therapy like when when someone gets you at that

age it's like there's a before and after she says i miss who i used to be it's that person that thought like love and sex and romance all meant one thing. And then you have a relationship where you realize, like, there's so many layers to all of that. And I wish you would have kept me wondering. You know what I mean? Like, fuck, I hate that you are going to be the person that is existing in my mind's eye from now on forever when I think about who I used to be and who I am regarding love. Something that i fixate on and really care about and want so badly and now i've achieved but i still have you in my head he still has real estate in her mind in a song that can't help but be bigger than it even should

be on this album give me back my girlhood it, it was mine first. Like, it is... That kind of says it all. And if you can relate to it in that way, you met Rodgers. I mean, this one means a lot to me, to be honest with you. And readers know, if you've had that relationship

where you gave the power up, you understand what it is. how you know that person like the person that delivers a first you know what i mean they will always be there yeah and for not for not it's not for everyone that that results in happy feelings or and it always results in at least complicated feelings and her still mulling over this and she's like the pain was heaven there's a compromise here because she understands that like it was enjoyable because it was the first and it was this thing that like created the blueprint for

everything else going forward yeah um i keep talking about this ann powers interview with sam sanders but it's it's so i you have to listen to it. Everyone should listen to it. I will. But she says, and this is where I disagree with her. Ann Powers says that Taylor Swift is a super ego of an artist, right? Like, her whole... Her work is super ego. Her work is... So, okay, between the id, the ego, and the super ego,

like, the id is, like, all, like, the impulses. It's what happens when you have a knee-jerk reaction. Yes. Yes. And your super ego is, like, the person who's trying to corral it all into morality. Yeah. And the ego is the one that like is compromising, is going, well, maybe there's a way to have both impulses and the sort of inner morals that you've set yourself. The self-awareness, trying to organize it, maybe even for other people too. Totally. I think early on in her career up until i would say reputation taylor's taylor was all about id was all about impulses um conflict um her interests superseding anyone else's

and i think with folklore and evermore that's when like the ego came in and was like i have i can take some accountability for my own stuff you know or even maybe love her but i think yeah on what it could have showed up it is like so for it to be so passionate and big yeah and yet still like unsure of itself yeah i think she she used to be an id artist first and now i think she is ego now I think she's someone who's like hmm I need to refile I need to resort all of this stuff in my mind yeah you know what there's also this genuine feeling I get when I listen to

woulda coulda shoulda which is I'm pissed off I even had to write this song I know you know what I mean like I regret you all the time like I just want to let you know like ugh you really took me for a ride and I wish i hadn't gotten on it but like this song will be what i am left with and i'm leaving everyone with

and honestly like not to not to be like cheering on her you know toxic relationship at 19 with this man but like i'm happy it happened forget this song we all hope we all hope every person that's a creator hopes that they can take what they've been through like this and externalize it in a way that helps not only them but everyone else and and like i hope that she feels helped by writing this like i hope that it gives her some closure to be able to get this out because the dear john of it all i feel like yes she was externalizing but that song is also id because a little bit of that song is i'm gonna get this guy i'm gonna call it dear john and i almost feel like there might even be a little bit of self-consciousness

and embarrassment about how bald that is and now she's looking back and she's saying like you made me feel and look stupid in so many ways even though dear john is an incredible you you humiliated me the fact that i had to go where it is and also let's face it the entire thing with katie was really about john like that fucked taylor up yeah to the point where it was like it spun off into all different types of directions. Yeah. But that's, you know, not to say he caused her trauma, but that's what formative relationships do. You know what I mean? They spin you out, they change you for a few years. You know what I mean?

Like, it's very real. And I think it's important to note that, like, let's just keep it to John, like, a confessional musician, singer-songwriter, who was very famous. And so, so of course she's going to spend the next 13 years or however long yeah playing all this out publicly uh-huh putting it in her songwriting like making some of her persona which she is acutely aware of the entire time she's working centering that persona on this kind of wrongedness it all makes sense and if you're one of those people who is not a swifty or someone

who is like a little tired of like the rehashing like i think i think it is just the human artistic way to do this it's for her to process this um yeah does that make sense because because again like you're not going to get clarity on this type of thing soon afterwards you know you know like what she was able to put out was dear john which was basically telling on him and letting people know she was hurt but this is years later and this is the song she's released and it's clear that it still fucks her up because that is how powerful that relationship is in your life a moment a moment and then i love that it's the second to last track because she takes a breath and then gives us dear reader here's what i've

learned here's what i'm telling you whether or not she's going back and telling herself in the past or she's letting people know for the future this is what i've learned these are my notes like and the dear reader of it all like i mean it's a love letter to us and to herself it is yes it is it is it is we can't make too much of this except that it's a wonderful song wonderful closer yeah never take advice from someone who's falling apart wow like what a great pithy line or not pithy but it's like it's it's pretty it's saying a lot that sentence is saying so much and that's taylor that's ali that is out okay are people i hope i hope i'm not like stabbing in the dark with this like i think allison is a new persona is or just a new identity through which we can understand Taylor Swift. Is this person who is finally like marrying Taylor and Taylor together?

Yes. To become Taylor Allison Swift. Yeah. There you go. Allison Ali. Ali. A-L-I. An album and a half.

Literally. Truly. Oh, my God. I love Midnight's. I'm happy to be in the midnights era i don't know what i'm doing in terms of where i'm ranking it in the grander scheme but it's it's close to number one for me i mean just because of the way i feel like it improves lyrically on the albums of hers that i love you know what i mean like i think i think if reputation is my favorite vibe that she has out there like this is reputation but with incredible like folklore evermore type lyrics where she actually became

you know the realized version of who she is as a songwriter and she was always brilliant because she was always really really really good at expressing and so now you see like it's self expression and also self-assessment in a way that works as pop music and vibes. And it's a fuck album. Period. Period. Maybe it's time to move on to I Don't Think So, Honey. It's time to move on to I Don't Think So, Honey.

I don't think we can say much more than all of this. I mean, we've enjoyed, we've licked it snorted it fucked it resuscitated it brought it back to life and we're being buried with it this is i don't think so it's where we take one minute to rail against something in culture that's pissing us the fuck off and something is and it's totally separate from taylor i just have to say it okay this is matt rogers i don't think so many times starts now. I don't think so, honey. In the midterm era,

the amount of emails that we get from these Democratic politicians and these organizations. I'm sorry, but the other day I received in one 24-hour period, 12 emails from Val Demings. I have to tell you something. You need to cool it. This can't possibly help.

No. To bother someone so, so, so, so, so much. In a different state. Literally, every single subject line is like, we're in trouble. We need help. Never felt this bad. It's going badly, Matt. It's all in all lowercase, like their Ariana Grande albums.

It's like, or songs. I'm just like, Val, I actually had to unsubscribe. And I did donate because I thought maybe if I donate, it will know to not attack me as much. But it still came and it's everyone across the board. The amount of desperation and how they're asking

for money is not helping. It's making me really scared. I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. No, there's no such thing as feeling good about, I would say, politicians. I'm not going to say

politics, because obviously, but let's just say that thinking a politician is cool is so dangerous, and it's the reason why we're in this fucking nightmare now anyway, like some sort of Congressman. You know what? I love it.

I love that she did that. I just, the energy from these people is so panicked and frenetic that it just, it really, my anxiety is through the roof and I'm like, it's not even, yeah, it's like,

it's like when you do like a donation, let's say you donate to a local candidate in your district, you get emails from fucking like Warnock in Georgia. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's like from politicians who, yeah, sure need your donations,

but it's crazy that I keep getting, yeah, that we all just keep from, from every corner of the country, it's like you're being begged. And then I'm like, where did I sign up for this one? You know what I mean? Of course, I want to support and celebrate everyone that's trying to take these Republicans down. I need it to happen. But the thing is just like, I wish the energy, if we could find a way to not make it seem already like a defeat, I only ever get emails that are like, it's going really bad. And then I genuinely wonder if that works on people because, because it got me to unsubscribe. I donated, but I unsubscribed.

And is that what they wanted? What do you think is going to happen when you send me 11, I swear to God, 11 emails in one day? I can't even see what's going on in my own life. Like literally, I'm missing things because the amount of political donation

emails I get are out of control. Now we have Bowen Yangs. I don't think so, honey. Are you ready, girl? Girl, I think I'm ready. This is Bowen Yangs. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.

I don't think so, honey. Us all moving on from Charlie, the self-titled album by Charlie Puth. I feel like we have not, as a listenership, really admired admired appreciated this wonderful album a tightly written and produced album from a great talent that we cannot yet take for granted in charlie pooth this man has earned our attention i mean it he's written some

of your favorite songs 30 seconds you need to give this the time. I'm talking to even my sister, Matt Rodgers, who has not really given this guy a chance on his new album. I haven't given him a chance. But really give the songs a listen. I will. I haven't listened to the album yet. I listened to Midnight's and Charlie in the same day on the same flight,

and both were wonderful experiences. There is a place to let those things coexist. You don't have to only listen to Midnight's this week. You don't have to only listen to your favorite artists. You can expand outwardly if you want. Listen to Charlie. And that's one minute. And that's a great advertisement for him. And honestly, here's the thing about Charlie Puth with me. I always am so excited to listen to what he's doing. And actually on TikTok and like on Instagram where he like makes the songs, I think he's truly brilliant.

I guess I'm just really still waiting to hear like the song from him that I really connect with. Really? You haven't found it yet. Not really. I mean like it's, but also I appreciate who he is as an artist. Cause there's like a lot of natural like anxiety and like, like almost like ADD energy in what he does that I think really matches him as a character.

And I really appreciate that. And I have enjoyed tons of songs that he's written for other people. I mean, but with him, it's just like, and I understand he's so great. I'm just waiting to stand. I'm really waiting to stand. But after I listen to this album, I will let you know. And I'm open to it. You're waiting to stand. But after I listen to this album, I will let you know. And I'm open to it. You're waiting to stand.

You're not, you're not engaging with the material. I know, I know. But I'm just saying like in the years that he's been a thing, like none of them have like really punched me in the gut. Like I fucking love that song. Like it just hasn't really happened for me yet.

I'm not saying it won't. Okay. Empty cups. Okay. Attention. Um, this is, this is old stuff by the way how long I mean it's really good

it's really good and then every song on this new album is A plus I mean and also let's not erase Meghan Trainor well we end every episode with a song this has been a fabulous episode first of all I just want to say and now Bo and I have to go somewhere because it's 2pm but we're going to end every episode with a song but I has been a fabulous episode, first of all, I just want to say. And now Bo wants us to go somewhere because it's 2pm.

But we're going to end every episode with a song. But I want to say to my sister, we had a fabulous episode. We had a fabulous episode. I was looking forward to this all week. And it did not disappoint. And you delivered. And you delivered. I always want to know what you have to say about culture. And now you know. It's true.

Okay. What's the song? Somebody to choose from. Like we weren't in Paris. Like we were somewhere else. Like we were in

Paris. To listen to more, make sure you listen to the 3 a.m. edition of Midnight. Of Midnight. By Allison. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami?

Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women.

And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby and iHeart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One,

founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football.

Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists.

I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.