Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "TAYLOR/TAYLA"

Episode Date: July 29, 2020

So, what had happened was...Tayla Swiff released a surprise album. Or, was it TaylOR SwifT who released an album? Either way, an album was released. It's called folklore, and on this installment of Las Culturistas, Matt and Bowen deep absolutely DIVE into it, going track by track and relishing in all the lyrical and melodic greatness. The boys discuss the difference between "Tayla" and "Taylor", fight over whether the track "Betty" is queer baiting or not, and rank all of T.S.'s studio albums. They also (finally) deep dive on Lady Gaga's Chromatica and get into The Chicks' Gaslighter and Haim's Women In Music Part III. And also more! This is the episode of LC all about what we're listening TO that readers have been waiting FOR, hawney. So listen in before the episode, like august, slips away into a moment in time and is sipped away like a bottle of wine. Fuck, that's good. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City are back. I love that. I love that. Oh my gosh. Welcome. And last season's drama was just the tip of the iceberg. You're recording us? I am disgusted.

Never in a million years after everything we've been through did I think that you would reach out to our sworn enemy. We were friends. How could you do this to me? I don't trust her. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Wednesdays at 9 on Bravo, or stream it on City TV+. I'm Julian Edelman.

I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old

question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're gonna find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba?

Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Oh, and look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Oh, and look over there. Wow. Is that culture?

Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. And wow. Can I just say, mm?

Mm? Oh, you're phonating a consonant sound there. What word does M start with? I mean, what word starts with M? Does M start with? It's a little culture number 12. What word does M start with? Well, I have a couple of words in mind.

Is it mermaid? No, even though the cover of the Little Mix single is they're all mermaids oh my god talk about those girls i forgot about little mix but yes we must talk about those holiday girls can't forget about them they were mermaids on the cover of their new single holiday but no the word i was thinking of is not mermaid not tonight is it makeup no even though i have been wearing makeup every single day for the last two weeks, shooting my soon to be hit series Hot Dog for HBO Max, but that's not it. Well, make sure you're using, you're doing a double cleanse. I mean, now you're, you're kind of past the point of, of, of,

of the skincare adjustment, but your skin looks wonderful by the way. Thank you for saying, but no, makeup is not the word. Is it music? Yes, Mitch. It's music. Music not the word is it music yes it's music music is the word i was thinking of that starts with m oh my goodness and there's so much music to talk about so this is going to be a culture catch-up episode as uh if you can't tell already dear reader um i was telling matt earlier the din of the requests for us to talk about chromatica. Yes. Women in Music Part 3. Right. Gaslighter. Come on.

Folklore. And I mean, let's just stop it all right now and say, talk about how you felt when you stumbled upon the knowledge that Taylor was going to surprise us with a full length album. I think it still hasn't sunk in it still hasn't sunk in i'll tell you what this is my actual sort of journey with with with the the reveal is that i woke up um one morning to a text from you saying new taylor album tonight and i was like in my groggy state i was like okay like okay, like, sure. Kind of dismissed it. I don't know why, but like my instinct was just to dismiss.

I couldn't, in my groggy state, I think I knew, my limbic brain knew I couldn't really process it the right way. So I was like, okay. It was a lot of information all at once. It really was. It was really overwhelming. I will, I'm not even like underutilized. I'm not even like underplaying that word, downplaying it.

It's like, it was really underwhelming or overwhelming. Taylor's albums are such events that for one to just kind of sneak up out of nowhere, I was like not ready for it because she's never done this before. But, and this is the event. And also, you know, not to, not to make it about this, but it is a business, the music business. It's actually real culture number 14. It is a business, the music business. It's actually real culture number 14. It is a business, the music business.

It's been hugely successful in the days that it's come out. So there is something to be said about this sort of surprise attack thing, if you can pull it off, because they tend to perform really well for these big tentpole pop girls. But I was kind of like, wow, I can't believe this is happening and i immediately told

jared who's of course a huge taylor stan and he pursued to cry and cry and cry for hours um but what i felt was excited because of the images and the title of the album because i've been waiting for her to do this sort of scaled back more singer songwriter II lyrical thing because I feel like that just feels like a natural progression for now and I was excited about the promise of the album and do you think it delivered on the promise see here's the deal you have an interesting response to the actual meet the content of the album I Yeah. So I'll just say how I felt in the day it came out. Like I was like not in the mood for it because I was working and I was busy and I wanted

to listen to more upbeat music to drive me. And I just didn't really have. Yeah, I didn't have the mental space. I wasn't like in the place to sit down and listen to it because I could have been, but I just really wanted to give it its moment. So for the first three days of it, I really didn't listen to it because i could have been but i just really wanted to give it its moment so for the first three days of it i really didn't listen to it very much of course we listened to it the night it came out like minutes after it was released like sitting in a living room while straight people tried on clothes and had conversations so disrespectful so disrespectful

really disrespectful and we were liking it, but I was like, this is a vibe in a way that I need to like, really give this a second. So I haven't until today and I really appreciate it and like it so much. Okay. Curious about what you were feeling. Cause I have, I have thoughts as we go through the album itself.

Okay. I see. And I'm happy to go down that sort of framework too, but we can do it track by track on this one honey we really can I mean for all the albums that we're going to talk about if you want I would love um but I I fucking love it I think it's so great and it's and it's interesting because you and I have sort of casually and like everyone else and every other Swifty has been like okay her next album is going to be her going back to her roots, quote unquote.

Her doing country again, or her doing stripped down. But then Craig Jenkins and Vulture, one of my favorite music writers, and Vulture was saying how this isn't her going back to her roots, it's her doing something she actually really hasn't done before. But I mean, in the package of this folk aesthetic

and the cottagecore aesthetic, but it's like the execution is still her doing what she does best, which is songwriting and storytelling and imagistic story songs in that way. But I think it's fucking phenomenal. I, God, I'm like, I'm honestly taken back to high school where I was doing the most like indie rock drag you could possibly be doing. And I was standing the national like the alligator and boxer i fucking love and then um trouble will find me too which is which is more recent um

such a good album but like love the national of course like fingering myself to bonnie vera obviously at the time before the kanye i mean even no even the kanye collaboration i was like i'm on board i mean lately bonnie verver has sort of like like there's a whole like Father John Misty Bon Iver like cottagecore aesthetic where it's like oh that's like a male domain and then recently you've had like you have your Sharon Van Etten's your Waxahachie's

your your like whatever is just like sort of your female artists sort of take up that space and it's so good to have Taylor come in as this like juggernaut and music and like pull it off so well. I mean, this is the thing with Taylor. I think Taylor and Gaga are on the same level as being musical chameleons where they can really like try for something, a different,

a different try for specific styles and do it maybe once and be like, I nailed it the first time. I don't have to touch it again. Like with state of grace, I feel like she was doing you to arena rock. She did it once and she was like, I nailed it the first time. I don't have to touch it again. Like with State of Grace, I feel like she was doing U2 Arena Rock. She did it once and she was like, I'm not going to really touch this again. And I kind of, I love that about Taylor. And I think it's a great album.

And I would throw Beyonce in there too. Yes, yes, yes. As a musical chameleon as well. Because, you know, while I've been in my Dixie Chicks moment, which I'm still very much in, and we'll talk about Gaslighter, I was also sort of going through Spotify

and remembered that they had that collaboration with Beyonce on Daddy Issues Daddy Lessons and Daddy Issues that's of course a Demi Lovato classic and that's rule number, rule of culture number 97 Daddy Issues is of course

a Demi Lovato classic no of course Daddy Lessons is very much a different thing, but that's a full-ass country song, and that's from Beyonce, and she's obviously capable of that as well. For me, here's my take on the album, because I 100% love that this is what it is, this is her moment.

I would even call this a concept album because it is modern folktales, many of them. In a way, I think it can claim that title for me this is not my thing but and i and i say that as like just this is not an assessment or judgment on the album itself because it is quality and i think that you know while the quarantine is not quote unquote good for anyone, I think it's been a great space for her to explore herself as a lyricist all over again. Yes. Because something that I feel was missing on Lover was real exploration. For example, we'll talk about.

She had very contemplative songs on Lover, though. Yes. It wasn't it wasn't hitting. It wasn't scratching that like classic taylor swift itch that you want as a listener so you didn't feel singular and i'll get into this a little bit later i specifically have a comparison between mad woman and uh the man that i want to talk about oh yeah um but for me like i think as emo as i got in high school was like dashboard confessional and there is some Dashboard on here you know what I mean like Illicit Affairs I was talking to Jared before like

that's a Dashboard Confessional song down very much so like for me it's not my personal flavor however I know that when I need this album it will be very much there for me oh it's gonna fucking deliver babe I mean and and honestly,

I might make a little playlist for you, Matt Rodgers, and I'll make it public for any reader who wants to listen to it, but, like, I'll put, like, Jesus and Mary Chain and, like, Waxahachie, of course, but also, like, you know, Ladies of the Canyon era, Joni.

She's, like, the references here are so solid, and she's doing, like, you know, she's doing, like, Cocteau Twins and Cranberries here are so solid and she's doing like you know she's doing like cocteau twins and cranberries and um like fucking sixpence none the richer and nataline brulee there's so much there's a lot of like 90s it's like what little fair became around the turn of the century totally you know like that kind of vibe and it's you it's so funny you say sixpence down the richer Jared said that before too on August it feels like kiss me yeah yeah yeah but

so you say August like and we'll go through but just off the top like my favorite tracks on this album I find for better or worse are the ones that are more pop so the one and August and you know those are my favorite tracks and Betty like those

are that kind of pop even like countryish pop that's kind of where i'm living in the album this is my favorite spaces of the album but i appreciate and deeply love everything so why don't we just go from the top shall we yes let me um oh yeah let's let's do track by track let's go let's do track by track so the one we heard this one together for the first time. What are your thoughts on The One? Really like it. It's, I feel like,

and I'm going to say something kind of shitty. She, I'll say on Folklor and on Lover, kind of biffed it with the opening tracks. Or not the best ways in, I think, for everybody. And I thought she was going to do it again. So you think she biffed it on this first track i don't think the one is the one that you start with that you open this album with when it started with her saying i'm on some new shit i was like i i kind of was like oh no are we are we are we here yeah it felt like um uh i forgot

that you existed was sort of that same thing where it was like, I'm moved. I've moved on. It just felt like the sentiment that she said. And like she like she has like I think she is like retreading like her very common themes in this album like she normally does. And she's yeah, of course, we're not giving her permission as listeners and she does that very well. But I was just like, okay, like I it feels like an outlier to me. And the fact that it's the first track, normally her instincts are so on point with her first tracks like state of grace and then welcome to new york we love and um ready for it too like ready for it

is such i love ready for it opener for reputation ready for it is amazing yeah for the one i'm just like okay yeah it's it just it sounds it also is misleading in in terms of like the sonic quality of the album i was gonna say that it feels like the start to a different album than we get um yep i don't like i feel like cardigan should should be the first track exactly something like that that's more indicative of the rest of the album that being said like i think it taking off the judgment of it as an album opener i love the song like i really like the song i love what it's about like and just in general like the hook is fun like i just really like it and i realize i recognize that a lot of times like like even i forgot that you existed

like i think that's a really fun song and i love when she's a brat which i'm kind of missing on this album like i love when she's like a pop star bratty like sort of big sound like that's Tayla to me like that's Tayla you haven't called her Taylor once until just now and I think she lost the Taylor that's because she's being Taylor on this

she's not Taylor which is fine I mean and she is Taylor that is what's on her birth certificate it's rule of culture mean and she is taylor that is what's on her birth certificate it's rule of culture number 50 she is taylor i mean that's what's on her birth certificate and so she's fully justified in being taylor um but i just miss taylor on this album taylor um but i love the song love this yes well what was taylor's first album is it 1989 i think it's i think it's red taylor appeared a little bit in speak now to be honest with you um like but mean was taylor yeah she started to become taylor

then and then sparks fly as taylor oh sparks fly as taylor i mean there's a lot going on there and then taylor was literally wrote half the album of red and then taylor was full on 1989 i don't think there was any taylor on there no that was taylor taylor literally she was like maybe she wasn't even taylor on reputation she was like tay you know what i mean she was something i don't know about that i don't know about that i'm not seeing enough taylor taylor but anyway love the one and then we go into cardigan which is the single what'd you feel um i like it i think it's great it's classic national to me yeah to me is it is it too much national this felt like lana cosplay to me in a way where i was like this doesn't feel like taylor swift yeah that this felt like norman fucking rockwell

lana um and i i enjoy it. And see, I'm like, maybe I'm like critiquing each track in terms of like the full context of the album because I like Cardigan in the way that it sets up other songs like Betty, like Illicit Affairs. Yeah, to me this is like where the album starts.

And her visuals for this are like exactly what she wants them to be she is officially an old colonial woman who sat in the grass with her notebook and snapped you know what i mean like very that yeah very that and i really i love the ah you know what i mean i love the little hooks like the it's a great song for me it's just i had a question about like do we feel like this is a lana del rey song but do we do we feel like this is a Lana Del Rey song? But do we do we care?

Because I don't think so. Wildest Dreams is full Lana drag and it's one of her best. And this is this is a big discussion that I have. I find with so many people. I don't feel Wildest Dreams is Lana drag the way this song is Lana drag. I feel I feel Lana Del Rey is not capable of the big sound that Wildest Dreams is. I just don't think that she does that. Interesting.

Wildest dreams is Lana drag pre Norman fucking rock. Like, like that's Lana drag, like, um, you know, ultra violence. And like the first album,

what's that called? Born to die. It's born to die, Lana. Um, and then this, and then cardigan is norman fucking rockwell but i i i i see what you're saying i yes sonically it's more lush than a lana song

while it's but i mean lyrically this this song is like terrific and the entire album lyrically is poetry and we have to say that like patty lapone said it patty lapone yes i was gonna bring up patty and we'll say it second and taylor is a poet this is an album of poetry i mean it really is and she has never written like this i mean talking about we do have to say we hold on but i do i was speaking before we move on while the streams matt my last night in la matt and i got stoned with jared and sudi and we were watching taylor videos andest dreams. That bridge. I mean. You cannot beat that. That is one of her best bridges,

and it just, you fully get finger blasted by that bridge. I mean, you went finger blasted today. You were on one about fingers. Have you gotten fingered recently? I got fingered by me. No. I love that for you. No, you're actually not kidding, which is wonderful. No, no, no.

Keep it in. Stay real. I'm not a self-fingerer. I never have been either. The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by

elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute. She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy. What? You told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives

of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes.

I'm a dude, you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them. And we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of of dudes are there grunts we got studs wizards we got freaks or dudes dude we got dogs dog we'll break down their games we'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are is randy moss a stud or a freak is tom

brady a dog or a dude's dude? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba.

He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation.

Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty,

and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations. I was a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer.

Just don't be a desperate, delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that like years of work listen to on purpose with jay shetty on the

iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts trust me you won't want to miss this one you know what actually taylor could learn a lot from this because Taylor doesn't write about fingering, but Taylor would. Give her two more years. Give her two more years. Anyway, so basically she was talking about getting fingered in the second half of Reputation. Sorry.

But anyway, The Last Great American Dynasty. Wow. I love this song. Love this. I love this song. I love a storytelling moment from her. I love this song. I love a storytelling moment from her. I love that she's, you know,

third person in it. Like, I think it's really, really cool. And just, well, she, she comes in at the end.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The twist that, that it's about her home in Rhode Island, I thought was really cute. The fact that she wrote a song about it, I thought is nice.

And the fact that she is that explorative of an artist like that she found some of herself in this woman that used to own her house I thought is something that's very Taylor and uh her vocals great and I think it's a really satisfying song lyrically and vocally I had a marvelous time ruining everything is a wonderful lyric um it's a beautiful song about property ownership let's give it up yes um okay so talk about exile exile uh people seem that the heteros seem to love exile i don't know the the rest of us who know better um sort of i think are brushing it off as like i i just bony bear on this track first of all he his balls finally dropped that's what rose dom you tweeted um such a deep register which is great for miss justin vernon you know it doesn't fully culminate until like they're both sort of trading off lines and phrases to each other i think it's fine it's a fine why does she sound why does he sound like the and by she i mean bonnie vera

she sounds like the beast in beauty and the Beast, the live action. Yes. Hun, when he started singing, I was like, who the fuck is this beast? He sounded like Johnny Cash. I was like, this is not Bon Iver. It just jarred me in the beginning. And then you find out that he wrote his lyrics and she wrote hers. And it's like, yeah, well, the quality difference in the lyrics that he wrote and the lyrics that she wrote are a fucking, you it's it's a it's a difference it's a difference taylor is more versatile as a lyricist than so many people give her credit for and it's very evident here where she can she can like retrofit her process

to someone else's voice but a lot of people can't do the same like she's able to infuse all of these songs with like this like longing and this like specificity just like she really is and like but there's there's still a quality of like white femaleness to it that's like oh yeah like i don't know i don't know what i'm trying to say but it's like i think that she is just more in touch with her emotions and she's just more illustrative with her emotions and i think she's interested in her own emotions in a way he doesn't seem to be on this song. It just is like I get that she wanted to be down and cool

with him writing his own verse because I think she was excited that he wanted to be on it but for me the strength of the song is with her and it really comes alive in the bridge when he sounds like himself again like we've been saying Taylor Swift bridge queen and the song does sort of lift off and go somewhere cool and emotional but the first verse

i'm i'm just not into the the only sort of like moment for me is when they're singing sort of to each other and he's just like um you gave me no signs and then she goes i gave and then she sings i gave so many signs um that's like when it gets interesting. But that's it. Yeah. Let's move on. My Tears Ricochet. Lovely.

This is great. And I mean, this is so, I love didn't have it in myself to go with Grace. Like it's about betrayal, the imagery again, and this song is wildly good. Ultimately it's about her getting fucked over, over her music.

Yeah. She wants those masters back. This is a song about Scooter. 100%. It's a very Panic at the Disco title, don't you think? My Tears Ricochet. It would need to be eight more words long. But like, my tears ricochet off the desk at which I sit.

And isn't that fun? Then it would be a Panic at the Disco title. But love this. Love that ricochet is in the song yes Miss Ricochet by the way congratulations Shea Coulee congratulations Miss Ricochet Coulee

yeah this song is great I mean and then we get Mirrorball I fucking love Mirrorball this is Jesus and Mary Chain this is magnetic fields drag drag, realness. It's, I fucking, I see like, this is like me, like there's this record store in Denver,

Twist and Shout. Hey, Denver. This, I mean, yeah, for me, like this very speaks to, this very much speaks to like the, my sort of musical upbringing where it's like, it wasn't until high school that I was like discovering, like my horizons were expanding and I was like going through crates and stuff of music and like discovering all these musicians independently and i was just like oh like this

like i don't know i i associate this sonic quality to just that lush like deep vibrant sort of production on it it's so good and her her voice being layered in is so nice. I was just going to say, a lot of it is the layering of the vocals is really, really nice. And this is really the sixpence, none the richer moment on the album, I feel. And again, the lyrics,

we could talk on every song about how good the lyrics is, but what I pulled from this is the vocals are great. And she sounds great. And just to talk lyrically specifically, when she says, I've never been a natural, all I do is try, try, try. You know, Jared points out that that's like really who she is.

You know what I mean? And it's a self-awareness about herself, which is kind of cool to see. And just love that. It feels like lyrically, this is Taylor Swift in a nutshell. It's her coming to terms with like the thing that's sort of motivated her

whole life, which is that she just works. She, I mean, she's like, she, you, you can't deny.

I mean like, whatever, like, let's just like put aside like any sort of like value and like productivity or whatever or anything. But it's like, she just works so hard and she is, she has worked for like validation from validation from, like, the industry.

It's interesting. I'm reading a lot of interviews by Aaron, with Aaron Dessner. I read one this morning as well. From Vulture, I believe. From Vulture. He did one with Pitchfork where he was talking about

how, like, he met Taylor and, like, how Taylor, like, went to one of the Nationals or one of Big Red Machine's concerts in Prospect Park last year. She went with Antony, I think. And, which is great. I love that. I think Antony is the perfect sort of

cypher, or the surrogate to introduce Taylor to these bands, but I'm sure Taylor knew of them before. If Antony is the reason for folklore, I have mixed feelings about that, but ultimately I'm happy. Stop, stop, stop. Sure, I'll stop. But Aaron Dessner was just like, yeah,

we met like she and like you can tell that like he respects he always respected the hell out of her and it's like i think amongst musicians like see like like like whatever the general public's sentiment around taylor swift has like crested and and crashed like so many in so many different ways and times but like musicians think, see through all that and like respect the hell out of Taylor Swift. I am sure that they do. That's why she has a million Grammys.

You know what I mean? Like, it's like, yes, her industry respects her, but also the people that make up the industry respect her. That's why she has so many interesting collaborations. That's why she works with the best of the best. I mean, yeah, sure. She has a machine behind her that probably gets whatever it wants.

But ultimately you cannot argue with the fact that anyone can, not anyone can become successful, but anyone with the amount of privilege that she had can become probably successful in some way. Not everyone can become the most successful and stay the most successful. She is really, really, really talented. And we talk about her as a songwriter and a musician, but in terms of her vocal ability, something that's happening throughout this entire album is she is really emotionally connected to a lot of this stuff. And even when she's outsourcing the experience

through another point of view, it's still so lived in. Yep. I was gonna say, yes, you're right any anyone quote unquote could have like reached this level of whatever exposure but like not everyone can leverage their resources in this way she knows how to direct her whatever energy let's say to the right people and at the right time and conserve the right things and pull them out at the right in the right ways and execute in the correct way and i think she's she's done that the album gets really strong for me around this area yes i

agree seven i mean this is this song is a moment this song is about you know nostalgia is her best fucking friend as we know yeah yeah and uh this song is actually about a lot more than i think people realize yeah because it's about, I think a friend of hers that went through a trauma at a very young age is what I'm gathering from my research. And just the, the lyric, are there still beautiful things,

you know, talking about, and that very vivid painting of a girl up in a tree, like looking down, like her saying Pennsylvania islvania's below her like that moment of innocence is so captured in this and saying you peaked at seven at seven that's it's sad it's really sad and it so feels like a quarantine song you know what i mean like a real moment of reflection i mean i don't know if i know better songs than this that are about this yeah uh

mirrorball i think is a contender for for quarantine for a good quarantine song um where it's like um hush i know they say the end is near but you know whatever it's like but seven seven feels like an uh an alice monroe story it's like so like tragic and like sad and about a girl which we all fucking love anyway yeah um seven i love i just she's doing something new vocally i think that we haven't heard her do before yeah it's like like just singing up in that little i guess it's not really a mask or it's not really like a a mix but it's like she's she's like she's like kind of straining in this very nice way and i don't even know if straining is the right word but it's beautiful it's beautiful i mean well

speaking of vocals we get the album's one and only belt on august which i love i love this is my favorite song and it should come as no surprise because i i've been saying that i you know gravitate more towards the pop stuff there's's a drum machine. Yeah. To me, I specifically love this song because not only is it more in line with my sensibility in terms of not only Taylor, but also just pop music. I love what this is about. This is about that... Like an ephemeral summer romance.

Yes, it's about that relationship in your life that comes and goes. And you will always remember it. And that lyric about it being like a bottle of sipped wine. August slipped away. Man, it is so good. No, I'm about to be a fucking idiot. So first she goes, August slipped away into a moment in time.

And then she goes, August sipped away like a bottle of wine. Yeah. Come on. Come on, little subtle, subtle change in the consonant. Yeah, she nailed that. And also, you know, just she's, again, so good at just saying what we all feel. And we're all like, oh, yeah, that is how I feel. I cancel all your plans just in case you call.

Like that feels like old Taylor in a way where you're like yeah that's that girl that's that girl we know and she's still um she's still here in this 30 year 30 31 year old body that she was when she was 14 15 16 years old you know like still grappling with this stuff and still able to articulate it in that pure way you're like yeah that taylor that you weren't sure was still there from 1989 to reputation and lover which is kind of a mess compared to this album if i might if i do say so myself sure sure um no real shade because it's still a great album we just have her such a high standard um it's really fun to hear this stuff from her this is classic taylor where she has uh she has a bridge that's like one sort of

idea and then she repeats it again but then like sort of with with this like accentuated um force behind it because you know like do you remember like she does they cancel my plans just in case you would call and then she comes back into it it dropped the beat drops out and then it like and the guitars and the drums come back in like full force the second time when she when she repeats the bridge it's like okay like she knows she's like so good she's done this a million times before and we love it because she knows when to pull out the trucks yeah and i mean it also didn't feel like a departure from the rest of the album either you know what i mean it just feels like a high point.

Yeah. Like a, like a classic, just natural high point in the album. I love this song. I think, I think it's the album strongest song. It's one of my favorites.

Um, this is me trying, I really don't have too much to say about this. I think it's pretty simple. I think it's, I think it's good. I just don't have too much to say about it after the three songs that came before it.

Like, you know, I, I, I think it after the three songs that came before it. Like, you know, I, I think it's, it's a different emotional texture. And I like that she's playing a little bit like, um, this is desperate,

but I think it's a good acting performance. This is like the archer where it just starts off with like one tone. It's like, cause, uh, on this is me trying, it's like, and then there's,

and then the drums come in and then it starts to embellish. But then like, I think that's how the archer was. It's just, it's like, because on This Is Me Trying, it's like, and then the drums come in and then it starts to embellish. But then like, I think that's how the Archer was. It's just, it's like the, and the Archer was like the, and then the other stuff gets sort of glommed on. Layered in, yeah. Layered in. I think this is like a very, a nice little sort of garnish on the album, I guess, where it's just like, yeah, it just builds towards like this,

this crescendo at the end. Yeah. One of my favorite songs on the album is illicit affairs because I just, I, I loved dashboard confessional and this to me feels like a song. The bridge is so dashboard. I mean, not everything about it. Like I love that.

It's just about like, you know, and a lot of it almost feels like a short chapter of a book. It's just so well written and it's such a you can really follow it. And a lot of this album is about being secretive and what goes on behind the scenes that like not everyone knows about. And like little little moments like stolen moments and I like that she explores this like you know um not to just repeat the title but illicit side of herself like naughty side of herself like side of herself that's breaking the rules a little bit I think it's really fun I love the surprising little melody choices in the in the verses yeah um this you know what I think she does on this album uh is she makes these meals out of like

small small flings let's say where it's like i've and this is this is just me getting personal but it's like i'm all i'm always hung up on the thing of like oh i haven't had anything longer i haven't been in a relationship longer than like this much time and this much time and i talk to friends and like other friends who kind of have the same experience and they're like, yeah, but it's like, it's like time doesn't lend anything legitimacy. And it's like, it's, it's,

it's these like fleeting moments that are so powerful. And I feel like she, I think Taylor's like really leading into that sort of overall notion on this album is like these little moments get blown out into these musical sort of pieces that are so beautiful. And I do love illicit Affairs for being the second part of this teenage love trilogy that she built out.

Love that. You have Betty, you have the other woman, and then you have James, I guess, who is like, and then... You mean,

by other woman, you mean Ms. Inez. Ms. Inez. Who is a gay icon. Well, no, but do you think Inez is singing Illicit Affairs?

That's from Inez's point of view? That's what Jared and I think. You, you heard the rumors from Inez. Hmm. Okay. Interesting. We'll, we'll get to that when we get to Betty. Um.

I think Inez is just like a fun, like, is like a fun, like person with the gossip. You think it's a fun thing that rhymes with says. I think it's a fun thing that rhymes with says. It's a fun name that rhymes with says. And then she's all, Inez is just like. It's a way for Taylor to put a little color in the album. She wasn't hearing enough color. You should stop.

Jared is saying. Okay, so I guess the love triangle is Betty, Inez, and James named after Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds' children. This is what Jared says. Yeah. We don't have to get into that. He just gave me a look that was like, I'm right. Oh, I'm sure he's right. But I'm also oh i'm sure he's right but i'm also like okay

that's right we have to like jane this couple that got married on a plantation hi jane oh hi jane i miss her oh she's so beautiful she's a gorgeous woman she's doing wonderfully i was thinking about jane today i was reading a book that was talking about um the limbic brain and about how dogs play fetch and play tug of war, not because it doesn't serve any evolutionary purpose, but it's because they want to connect with people they like. Well, you know, Jane actually is going through it a little bit right now

because she hurt her paw a little bit at daycare. No. And so she's going to the vet now, and she's going to get checked out. And Jared thinks that he can sense in her energy that she's not feeling too good has jared talked to a pet psychic has jared talked to a pet psychic yet he has not spoken to a pet psychic but i famously want us to speak to you should speak to one i was talking with m fight master the other night and they were telling me about an experience with a pet psychic they had with their cat whose name was originally some crazy name but

the pet psychic was like oh no the cat wants to be called Rindy like you've been calling the cat Rindy and the cat likes the name Rindy and like it's just these pet psychics I mean they they are communing with something big and I think you should have Jared talk to a pet psychic.

I mean, we'll be speaking to a pet psychic in the near future. Yes. But let's continue with our sort of discussion on this album and talk about Invisible String, a song that everyone loves and I don't get. It's a beautiful song. I don't get it. I don't get it. It don't, I don't get,

it's not that I don't, it's not that I hate it. It's just that everyone has this reaction to it. And I'm like, what makes this one so much different than everything else? It's just the, the way the guitar is plucked. Aaron Dessner was saying in an interview that,

um, the bridge on the guitar was like, there was like a rubber stopper in it that like, kind of like stopped the, the strings, the plucks from vibrating so that it just sounded so plucky. I just think it's so, it's,

it's just, it's just such an interestingly produced and instrumental and like, uh, arranged song. And like, you know, this is the thing. And as we've established,

Taylor Swift does longing better than anybody. And this is a song, um, I think Pitchfork was writing about this. Like there's like there's a quality in a lot of love songs that is like I'm missing someone before you've met them like Carly Rae Jepsen before you came into my life

I missed you so bad there's like there's like there's like this feeling there's no word for it but there's this feeling that gets written about kind of universally and I feel like this is a song that's about that it's like two people who they haven't even met but there are these like invisible hands and forces that like bring them together

and I think she I think Taylor captures that so perfectly yeah and it's just a beautiful song it's beautiful melody I'm not even gonna speak about this one because I just I don't really have strong feelings on it either way I'm just reacting to the fact that everyone seems to love this one as like a

standout on the album. I think it's one of her best. I think it's one of her best songs. I really do. That's what Jared said. Yeah, it's one of her best. She thinks it's one of her best songs ever.

It's just, it's so evocative. It's so, I can't even get into why. Did you hear his laugh? What did he say? Do it again. I just,

I just love it. I just think it's so lovely it's lovely well moving to one of the songs that I think is the best one on the whole album I don't care much for this Mad Woman see Mad Woman to me is like the girl on Reputation

has chilled out and like had a glass of wine and like maybe sipped some tea but is still just as pissed like I think that her performance on this and the lyrics on this are the best on the album like when she says that girl on the in the lawn do you think that she's smiling or is she saying fuck you forever like that to me is and the way that she says it is so the way that she when she's delivering the line my cannon's all firing at your yacht like she sounds furious and like you can hear in her voice she's like shaking with anger like

this is about i guess scott porchetta and scooter braun yeah and i mean they will be enemies of hers for the rest of her life yeah and i think that like it's just so like you took me down but you didn't realize that i will never stop fighting for what is mine and what is right and you will always be the villains in the story yeah like you might have won the battle but the war you will you have lost and you will always be losing it's like truly the song is like i mean i mean even just talking about like um you made her this way like this is your it didn't have to be this way and this is my take pretty much on this entire album as compared to lover but specifically this song as compared to the man the man i've always said i don't love like i, I think it's very clever, but it's on the nose.

It's too much of a, it's too simple of a thought that she's communicating. Literally, Selena Gomez could sing that song. I mean, Ariana Grande could sing that song. Anyone could sing that song. And I'd be like, cool. It didn't feel like singularly Taylor Swift. Like, she was sort of like stating sexism instead of exploring sexism and exploring the way that it's like really hurt her and what her feelings

are around it and exploring the fact that she's been betrayed by people that she trusted this is singularly taylor her using all of her like witch-like powers as a songwriter and really specifically illustrating what she's going through instead of you know if i was a man things would be easier like anyone can say that everyone has been saying that for the past 25 years and i think like unfortunately it's it's when you when you state it so plainly again and again that's when stupid people start stop listening and people will hear this and they'll feel it in their bones people have compared um the man with if i were a boy by beyonce and it's like that's like a full like rumination reflection on like how different her

like experiences her or her the way she would receive things or she would like what what else what she would do differently this This is like, the man is more like, my career would be different if I was a man. Which is totally valid. Totally. But it felt like her as a part of the pop music industry speaking on the issue and not her as an

artist, as a human being speaking on the issue. I like that take on Mad Woman a lot. And it's a more grounded read. You're right. I like that she's chilled out. She's had a couple glasses of wine. Some years have passed by, but she's still like fucked, like fucking pissed about the whole situation.

And this is where I said, like, I think this is the most, the best example of how quarantine has been a very interesting and useful creative time for her. Again, never want to say that quarantine's been quote unquoteunquote good for anyone but you're jennifer aniston i'm right so what i'm saying is like this i wonder if she

experimented with psychedelics before she did this i'm willing to bet that she's done psychedelics before this album i think she's done psychedelics like i think she did it like before red honestly i'm that would make sense to me but like the entire imagery of like her being up in the woods yeah wearing these weird clothes she's making shrooms tea she's doing the psilocybin tea darling hundred percent and i was saying to myself like she saw the goop episode she saw that yeah assistant she did she saw the goop yes she she she literally watched goop and was like i'm doing that no just kidding she's smarter than that i'm and see here's the thing taylor watches the goop show and says i

want to do that taylor has been doing it for 10 years like for me it's like she's like already been explored her mind but taylor i think see this is this is the difference taylor was singing the man and i don't want to hear about The Man from Taylor. Taylor wrote Mad Woman, and I'm like, wrapped. So you're not even... So I thought you were, like, disappointed that Taylor was back, but you're saying... No, I'm not disappointed that Taylor is back.

I'm saying Taylor and Taylor are two different people. And Taylor is hips, hips, points, let's go. And Taylor is like, I am, you know, writing my name in a tree, but for real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I am this girl. And she's like, I'm gonna write poetry and actually not go to class today

or like, I'm feeling sick because I'm too emotional. Which I love, you know what I mean? I love both those girls, but I want them to both naturally be love. You know what I mean? I love both those girls, but I want them to both naturally be themselves. You know what I mean? I see, I see. Because there is like a duality to her.

What's her sign? What's her sign? She's a Sagittarius? Yes, December. Yeah, the archer. She's a Sag. I want Johnny Nicholas to get to the bottom of her chart. I want Miss Chani Nicholas

to really look into what's going on there. The Real Housewives of New York City are back for another bite of the Big Apple. Look who it is. Joined by elite new friends. Rebecca Minkoff. Have you ever heard of her? But things could change in a New York Minute.

She had this wild night and ended up getting pregnant by some other guy. What? You've told her? Not today, Satan. Not today. The Real Housewives of New York City. All new Tuesdays at 9 on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Julian Edelman.

I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude, you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them. And we'll get into the types of dudes.

What kind of types of dudes are there, Gronk? We got studs, wizards. We got freaks. Or dudes dude. We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are.

Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dude's dude? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll.

This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image and huge life transformations.

I was a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble I encourage delusional dreamers be a delusional dreamer just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer I just had such an anger I was just so mad at life everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault

but mine I had such a victim mentality I took zero accountability for anything in my life I was the kid that if you asked what what happened I immediately started with everything but me it took years for me to break that like years of work listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts trust me you won't want to miss this one on Thanksgiving Day 1999 a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba.

He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with.

His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You might even say that on this album she had an epiphany. Oh my god. Is that what's next? Yeah. Can you tell that I've been doing puns for the past two weeks? There's a lot of pun humor in Hot Dog. Epiphany, anyway, stunning. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous.

Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. What a beautiful tribute to her grandfather discussing, you know, his experiences in the war and then relating it to COVID. Relating it to COVID. Absolutely. Absolutely. This is a beautiful song. Beautiful song.

I mean, I don't have much to really say about it other than I just appreciate. Gorgeous song about the fragility of life. Yes. We stan. Okay, let's get into then we have we have betty i she i think she is fully aware of the sort of queer baiting discussion that's been around her ever since lover and i feel like she absolutely knew what she was going to be doing what she was going to drive the queers up the fucking wall with like the speculation on this i love that she's taking cover behind

this is from the point of view of james but it's just i mean even her singing through um a sort of like transcending gender and her point of view is a queer thing you know like she's doing something queer regardless of your take on this i do not think she wrote this as a queer thing i think she's telling a story just like she told the story with every track on the album she could have easily used the third person easily used the third person and said james did this james did that nope i'm gonna revisit this later i don't think so honey because i'm okay girl um but i feel that she is just simply exploring perspective on this song beautifully.

I love this song. It's one of my favorites. It's one of my favorites on the entire album, and I think that it has nothing to do with queerness. And I don't think she sat down and wrote that song and said, hmm, hmm, hmm, and the internet will talk about how it might be queer. That's Tayla, though. Tayla is still in the- taylor doesn't exist on this album

yes but she subconsciously exists she is very much pulling the strings taylor because taylor this is taylor i just agree with you stupid stupid whore i want to say that uh aaron desner also said that she was going for like bob dylan like freewheeling for like early bob dylan freewheeling bob dylan t is like harmonica of course like the whole bit it's very much um fucking uh cape planchette and i'm not there like doing bob dylan it's like okay this is a woman doing drag as a man and right but i don't but but but and that's queer darling and that's queer even though i don't even though it's not like this lesbian anthem it's still she's it's a queer it's queer canon if people need it to be queer as your friend as your friend jill gotowitz said this song is queer canon betty is queer canon no matter she's wrong and i would say that to jill's face as i push her off a bridge so here's what i feel this is she's

being an artist on this song not a queer baiter on this song taylor can be queer baits taylor doesn't queer bait i think she is no she's she sat on the grass with her bare feet and she wrote this song because she wanted to explore perspective and tell that that tell the trilogy story it's not queer baiting and i'm i'm revisiting i just don't think it is i don't think there's more to it than she wrote a lovely song, which my only problem with it is it's the same, literally same exact chord progression

as Death by a Thousand Cuts, which is distracting to me. Literally, it's the same. Yeah, but artists do that all the time. It's the same exact chord progression. But it's like how Judas is the same exact chord progression as Bad Romance.

I would point that out as well, then. If that'sance. I would point that out as well then. If that's true, I would point that out as well. It is true. There's no need to question its validity. Right. Bitch. Stupid. You're just mad that I don't agree with you on that point. But I will say this. While the song is not queer canon

and I don't think she was baiting with this, I do think Inez is a gay icon. Inez is a gay icon inez is a gay icon now it's now it's ryan reynolds's daughter um why is their daughter named inez i'm not sure i'm sure i mean i'm sure there's maybe a family name um we we should say that we love ryan we love blake we love the children we don't know them we can't say we love them we don't know them miss miss why is say we love them. We don't know them. Miss Blake.

Why is, I would like to know, honestly, I don't think so, honey, that Blake Lively named her daughter Inez. Well, that's not for us to question. It is for us to question. I'm going to be up front. Can I say something? Blake Lively stopped me in the halls of 8-H

and complimented me one time, so I can't really talk. Oh, my God. You're such a fucking sellout whore we're cutting it out we're not we're not cutting it out he says he goes I have to be honest

Blake Lively stopped me in the studios of SNL and like complimented me on my performance or whatever so he thinks we have to cut this out we are not cutting it out bitch you also haven't said anything it's me that's questioning why her kid is named Inez. And I would ask her that question in the studios of 8H. I'm trying to protect my friends

Blake and Ryan who got married on a plantation. LOL. Hi, Jared. What's up? Hi, Jared. We can't use any of this. Oh my gosh. I really don't think Betty is queerbaiting. I don't. Guys, just let me just have this.

You can have it, and guess what? Millions agree with you over us, but we have to voice this. I don't believe it is. This is actually erasure. Do you know what I'm saying? It's not erasure. It's not erasure. It's lesbian erasure.

No, it's not, because we don't need Taylor Swift to be gay if she's not. And I don't think she is. And I think it's like, I resent the fact that she could she's like hiding in the closet. I'm not saying I'm not saying no matter what, she's gay. I'm saying that she decided to have a queer filter through her songwriting in Betty. And that's absolutely you can absolutely make that argument. Fine, maybe that but I'm just channeling. Right, but it's also in an album called folklore in which she's telling folk tales i think that it's also just as valid to say it's a story from someone's point of

view because i think she's doing a lot of storytelling on the album that's what i'm saying you don't think there's a place for queer people in modern folk tales got it homophobic whore no i'm saying that she can first sorry homoph, homophobic sex worker. Oh my God. Let's move on. Peace, I love Peace. Love Peace, literally love Peace. Thought the album should have ended with this. I agree, but I would say that I think

this is a genius marketing tool for her to be like, and stay tuned, if you buy my vinyl or my physical CD, you'll get the bonus track, The Lakes, which feels like maybe the real closer. I wish that The Lakes was the closer then and not Hoax because I don't like Hoax. I feel like it feels

tacked on. Well, I think it's intentionally inconclusive. You think it's intentionally inconclusive? I think she's intentionally sort of like, it ends on this unresolved phrase. Oh my god, Doug, hot engineer Doug is saying in the chat,

please don't use Bob Dylan, misspelled by the way, D-I-L-L-O-N, in the same sentence as T-Swift. Doug, if you're a real- You know what? No one asked you. If you're a real freewheeling,

you know, blonde on blonde bitch like me, I know my Bob Dylan. Don't misspell the damn name and also you wouldn't be so threatened you wouldn't be so you wouldn't be so threatened doug because you know what you know who i bet doesn't mind the comparison bob dylan herself herself i'm closing this chat now see you later see you later doug all right now just kidding we love doug so much don't we love doug and we appreciate his. And thank you to him for sending me this pop filter as a surprise shady gift. I really actually laughed at that.

I had a good laugh at that one. Gonna have to apply the pop filter and laugh on that one. Girl, I don't think it's a shady thing. No one is immune to a pop filter, bitch. Hun. You make P's and S's and T's and you do the fricative sounds just like all of us in the English speaking world.

It's shade when the gift arrives without any notice because it's like, hi, bitch, gotcha this without any heads up and I'm there left assuming that I am popping my P's and T's and C's

or whatever. So I'm just saying the shade was in the surprise of the gift. Peace is gorgeous. Love, peace. They say loving is public, but I would die for you in secret. I'm butchering the lyric, but it's just so. Do you think that William Bowery is Joe Alwyn?

I don't care. I love, I mean, the William Bowery of it all is very Taylor, let's say. Extremely Taylor for her to create a name for someone that, I mean, it's obviously Joe, right? William Bowery. Didn't they meet in Bowery? I have no idea. What's Bowery?

In Bowery? Like the New York area. Oh, oh. And that's why she keeps talking about East Village dive bars and stuff. She's always been obsessed with the East Village dive bar of it all in relation to Joe. Yeah, she's been referencing dive bars since reputation and you're like when have you ever been in a dive bar i think that she spent quite a bit of time there she probably was in that dive bar one time let's say she was in like death and company one time and now like it's like she just

has imprinted on the idea of dive bars this this novel concept. I believe that her team is fearsome and talented enough to have it, to execute her participating in a dive bar culture if she wanted to. I think they could have cleared things out, costumed her, etc., that she could go hang out with Joal when in dive bars in the East Village. I do. Okay. God, I miss bars. I'm sorry to be one of those people. Oh, I mean me too. I mean, it's just... For me, it's coming in cycles. I'm like,

oh no, I'll be fine until the vaccine and now I'm just like, oh, I just want a martini or like a... I know. And the thing is, I'm not talented at making drinks either. Well, that's not true. I'm actually pretty good. You are very good. I was a bartender.

You make very good drinks. Okay. Peace. I love peace. Love it. Hoax. Yeah, we don't have to talk about hoax. I don't care about it.

I do think hoax is intentionally placed in a way that I don't give that same credit to the one being intentionally placed as the opener. Hoax is intentionally placed as a closer, as a of like leaving it this like open-ended sort of yeah thoughts i don't know i think the bookends of the album are off but i um don't think it matters because this album is such an achievement i mean i i think that it's really, really incredible to see that she is so willing to explore new areas of herself as a songwriter because it feels like the same girl, but feels like a more mature version. And just like someone that's pushed it even further, who's already been giving us so much great stuff for a long time and i think that it kind of makes lover look even more foolish because oh one thing i think that um i hope that we have from her going forward is she doesn't need to answer to anyone and she doesn't need to pretend to be anything she doesn't need to stomp around uh in ally clothing it's great that she wants to be an ally but she she doesn't

have to go necessarily go as far image wise as I think that she has thought in the past. It kind of feels not authentic in a way, the last album, and not... Pretending to be best friends with a Carrie Davenport, you're like, really? Right. I mean, she would cop to it all being sort of ornamental to the music I think and now there's just no there's no ornament to it beyond just like the William Bowery of it all like that's the only Taylor elements are

the conversation around Betty and then the William Bowery of it all I feel like folklore is like also big ups to her for releasing a fucking autumn ass album in the summer and taking us there and and truly taking us into sweater weather vibe truly sweater weather cardigan ass no rules in

terms of tone here yeah but one thing i love is like this album feels like a whole meal whereas like lover feels like you ate a cupcake you know what i mean i'm not full the cupcakes were good cupcakes were cupcakes were good i mean the were really good. Cupcakes were good. I mean, the cupcakes were good, but folklore is like we just ate a warm stew. Red is a full meal to me. It's a feast. Red is fucking Thanksgiving dinner. Yes.

And what's 1989? 1989 is sushi. Sushi out on the town. Sushi out on the town. The best you could have. Conveyor belt, bitch. 100%. Yeah.

So for me, if I'm ranking the albums now and reputation is honey it's a fucking um reputation is like let's let's say oh why is this this one's hard reputation is a is a is a glass of ice water and it says wake up bitch and reputation is a cocktail it's not a um it's not yeah exactly you know what And Reputation is a cocktail. It's not a meal. It's not. Yeah, exactly. You know what it is? It's a filthy, filthy, dirty martini.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Reputation. Okay, so you're going to rank the albums right now? I feel we can. So my ranking of the albums are I'm a 1989 girl because I love Taylor. Okay. Red. Reputation.

Mm-hmm. Folutation. Mm-hmm. Folklore. Mm-hmm. Speak now. Speak now. Fearless. Fearless lover, Taylor Swift. Okay. Folklore is as much as I love it, I don't know where to place it, honestly, in my ranking. Well, also, it's maybe too early

for this. Well, no, but okay, but this is mine. Ready? I'm a red girl because red came out. I know you love red. Well, because you and I are the same sort of academic age where it came out the first year out of college and it helped me through some shit. You were feeling 22.

I was feeling 22. I don't know about you. Red, 1989, folklore, reputation, speak now lover taylor swift oh no no no no no no where does fearless hold on hold on fearless for me is six which feels shocking i know it's such a good album i know okay it's let me just redo that it's red 1989 folklore reputation speak now fearless lover taylor swift but can we say something like let's give respect to taylor taylor this album this title title of that should be taylor taylor yes let's just and let's just give respect because this artist is capable of folklore and reputation

chameleon come on it's like you better give it upon, come on. You better give it up. You better give it up. You better give it up. Okay, I loved that discussion. Can we quickly give quick rundowns of, we don't have to do track by track. We don't have to do track by track on these, although I feel we,

let's talk a little bit about Hyman Dixie Chicks now. Yes. And then give a little bit more Hyman Dixie checks now and then give them a little bit more attention to Chromatica. So I would love to talk about gas ladder, which for me is like unbelievable start to finish. And I only, I only don't love one song on it.

And it's not even that I dislike the song. I just don't think it fits. And it's March, March. Yeah. I just think I love that the album is about one thing. And it's about what happened on the boat. Divorce.

Yeah. I love that. I love that it's about that. It's such a good divorce album. Specific thing. I think it's one of the best divorce albums ever. And for me, it's like March, March felt like hashtag political stance, hashtag liberal girls, hashtag Dixie chicks, you know,

in a way. And we should say they are the chicks. The chicks. And I think. Which rocks. But for me, it's just that one song doesn't fit. It's not even that I don't like the song. It's just that it doesn't fit.

It's a literal distillation of the fact that they have been defined by a political stance in their career. Yeah. Which I think, like, them changing their name to the Chicks is awesome because they can do that because they have sort of earned quote unquote the ability to sort of adapt themselves politically to things because they've been so like whiplashed into these different places that they never

expected yes dad yes dad I think it's a phenomenal album it's I mean Gaslighter, Folklore and I will say Women in Music Part 3, Wimpy phenomenal driving albums. You gotta drive. As Miss Patti LuPone did. Hi, Jane.

Hi, Jane. She's so beautiful. She's a wonderful girl. Such a wonderful dog. I love for her, I love Typhoon My Boat. Jane is having a cameo in the song. She just licked the mic. She just licked the mic. She just licked the mic.

Texas man, Sleep at Night. Well, I feel like Sleep at Night is the bop of the year. For me, I would nominate it for record of the year. Okay. I think the music video is amazing. Yeah. Love them kind of doing their Haim thing in the music video. And we're going to have Justin Tranter on the show.

I can't wait, Miss Justin. And we're going to have Justin Tranter on the show. I can't wait, Miss Justin. Yes, and we're very excited for that. And he has not only done this album and done so many amazing, incredible songs. And that's going to be another music episode. So y'all can look forward to that one. And this is amazing work. I mean, Gaslighter, that's a great song. When it came out, I was like, cool.

Yeah, they're back. I love it. This as a part of a whole love it i mean sleep at night texas man i live for and i agree i love that song and it's like it's it's it's it's just i love it you know you know the kelly clarkson song whole lot of woman uh yeah vaguely this is like an improvement on that idea i got it um or like the song heat by Kelly Clarkson. Yes, I love. Yes, you're right. Cousins.

They feel like in the same musical family. I love Texas Man. Love For Her. For Her is gorgeous. I think there's some hidden gems on this album that people are not talking about. Yes. Such as Juliana Calm Down.

Calm Down. Juliana Calm Down is great. But can I be honest? I was mentally preparing myself for like, okay, this will be like my album for the next three weeks. And then Miss Taylor, Taylor, I should say, came in and just kind of disrupted my timeline on Gaslighter. So I have to revisit Gaslighter.

And I'm the opposite because Taylor came out, but I'm still listening to Gaslighter. Gaslighter is a better sonic companion to what you've been experiencing in the last couple weeks, which is work, work, work, get up, get up, get up, get up. It's way better.

It fits into my life better right now. Women in Music Part 3. But like I said, I love folklore and it will be there for me when I need it. Women in Music Part 3.

And then I just wanted to say one more thing, which is Young Man. Beautiful. Young Man. Beautiful. Beautiful song. It's a divorce album

that thinks about the children. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know. Which is a part of that thinks about the children. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know. Which is a part of that. So this album really explores every aspect of that divorce. Of course, shout out to Tights on My Boat. Shout out. This album is amazing and we should say, Natalie Maines, this is one of the best

singers because she is so connected in her vocal cords to her heart and her soul. I was going to say emotive. You feel everything she's thinking and feeling. Like almost like on par, I know it's a weird like apples and oranges comparison, but like I would say like a Celine,

like someone who can just emotionally deliver whatever, whatever is like behind the lyric. Yeah. And if Taylor is a bridge queen, Natalie Mains is a second the lyric. Yeah. And if Taylor is a bridge queen, Natalie Maines is a second verse monster. Yes. And all the ladies, because they co-write the songs.

And again, they worked with amazing people. Miss Marty, Miss Emily. Yes. And they too worked with Jack Antonoff, obviously. And in addition to Justin

and so many other amazing people. Gaslighter, I love. I love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. it now spiritual successors in a way to the chicks heim you you you were kind of late to the party on

women in music part three can i can i out can i out you as that yeah i mean i still don't have any vocabulary for it to be honest with you i'm just and i want to i want to give it space on this podcast to be loved so you speak about it it. Okay. Well, I just love that. Well, Hunter Harris wrote this piece, this, this, this mini profile on them.

Just talking about how the process was different and they didn't frame it around like any one singular sonic quality. And I just think, I just think it like benefits from having all of these, these, these, these, all of these elements in it. And Rostem Batmanglij, just producing a lot of these songs, brilliant touch. I mean, him, he is, I think, is such a good guiding hand for a lot of these kinds of albums. And it's funny, I am of the belief that um the best tracks on the album are the

bonus tracks which are the promotional singles leading up to this so that's nine minute hallelujah summer girl um and i love that summer girl is about um uh uh danielle's relationship with ariel her her her um partner and I don't know. It's just a wonderful album. Another Try, Gasoline, The Steps. My mom, Stans Don't Wanna. I was playing the album in the car when I was back home with my parents. My mom loves Don't Wanna, so my mom is a Heim girl.

Love that for her. Love that for her. Anyway, it's just a great, and it's also such an LA album. They're literally in Cantor's Deli on the cover and the album starts with a track named called Los Angeles. It's just like a, it's a wonderful sort of transportive album that

I think is just a flex on their songwriting abilities. Yeah, I just think it's phenomenal. It's great. Now I'm in it, songwriting abilities. Um, yeah, I just, I just think it's phenomenal. It's great. Now I'm in it. You cannot deny.

I love now I'm in it. Uh, I just, I, I haven't, I just will be honest. Like, uh,

it's not occupied any of the space of time. I've been listening to music. Cause I think I've been listening to chromatica so much and then gaslighter. And now this is just, I, I, it's not snuck its way into my musical diet, which is on me.

It's on me. It's on you. It's on me. Readers didn't do my homework on this one so far. What I, what I feel to be the quintessential quarantine album is not folklore. Actually. Oh,

actually, no, I'm going to say this for my, I don't think so. Honey. Okay. I'm going to say this. I don't think so.

Honey. Let's chat about chromatica. Okay. Chromatica. This is so, honey. Okay. I'm going to say this right now. I don't think so, honey. Let's chat about Chromatica. Okay, Chromatica. This is so much more my thing. Like, I just, I feel like I, when I heard this and we played it through,

I was like, yes, we are dancing. We're having fun. We're being stupid. Yeah. We are on another planet, bitch. There is orchestral interludes. stan we are like it's drama like it is hard sounds it's the gaga that we knew and loved and were introduced to and then

got to explore on born this way it's her being um like the stars born era is over. It's reminding you what she's all about. And to me, this album slaps the whole way through. The only song I skip is replay replay. I love, and I don't even dislike it. It's I'm just, and I don't,

I don't even skip it necessarily. It's just like, it is a skip for me, but, um, you know what I mean? I guess my skip is, I mean, I'm never listening to the damn interludes, not even two into 911. I'm so sorry to say.

What? Sign it from above is ridiculous. Yeah, but how dare you disrespect? I'm not even disrespecting. I'm just like, this doesn't, this doesn't count. You know, you're an absolute fool. I'm, I'm wearing, I'm wearing my chromatic. Okay. This,

this, this is an example of Gaga trolling. I think music. No, bitch. Yeah. Yeah. It's being an alien.

They're both being aliens. No, it's very, why did you do that? It's very Before I Cry. It's like, before I cry. I mean, I think we don't talk about enough. The chorus on Before I Cry from A Star Is Born being, because I'm going to cry. It's ridiculous.

So stupid. I love it. So funny. And she knows how ridiculous it is and melodramatic 1000 doves i mean it's a grower babylon i love 1000 doves babylon is one of her best closures uh second to edge of glory i would say this album starting with chromatica one we are are standing and then it goes into Alice and I'll be very real. And I'm saying this knowing that Justin is coming. Cause he wrote, he wrote, co-wrote this with her. I was like,

I don't know about the Alice in Wonderland imagery. Cause we've seen it. We have, we have done this before. But in terms of the house sound and the, like just this sound, I heard it being played outside. I was walking down the street and someone was blasting it. And like I'm like, oh, yeah, this is a great fucking.

It's a great song. It's a great track. I mean, like the fact of the matter is like I might object to the themes. Yeah. But just because I've seen them before, like most notably notably, I always think of Gwen Stefani. Right. But that's not to say that you can't explore this just because it's territory that's been taught already or whatever.

But I love this song, ultimately. It's wonderful. I think that, again, it's a little weird to me that it's the first track. I kind of think Stupid Love should be the first track. Yes. But the song itself is great. And you are in another planet when you get there you know what i mean like right i mean i love that the production on this album is like a

weapon i think she she is someone who has never fucked up the opener and i including on including alice and even chromatica one let's say because it leads into it but um no god think about it like just i marry the knight and then diamond heart are you kidding me love diamond heart diamond heart and then fucking like and then bad romance obviously like she right bad romance is is the opener on on fame monster i believe. I mean, I think Applause is iconically the last track on ArtPop, right? But on ArtPop, it's Aura that's the first track. And Aura's got some problematic lyrics, but I mean fucking phenomenal song.

Oh, yeah. Like, crazy weirdo song. And then on the Fame, it's Just Dance. So it's like these, like, she has never fucked up the first track on any of her albums. Let's just say that. Also, just notice, like, see, this is... When we were talking about folklore, we were like, love this song.

It's really good. And with Chromatica, we're like, this is good! And this is more the space I like to be in. Not to say that that means one album is better than the other. This is just, I prefer to be in the range of five to ten rather than one to five in terms of energy. Usually, this is the space I prefer to be in the range of five to 10 rather than one to five in terms of energy. Usually this is the space I prefer to be in. Like Stupid Love, I think is a fucking smash. One of her best lead singles.

Yeah, we've talked about this song. Like I love the video. And then Rain On Me, I think is a fucking iconic moment forever. It's a top moment in culture. It's a top moment in culture. It's made the list. Ariana kills it. Yeah.

And these remixes that have come out, Purple Disco, phenomenal. You gotta listen to it. Listen to this remix. So we've talked about these two songs. Free Woman, I love. I'm a free woman! Be free. I love when, see, this is the thing. I mean, like, those little things that I know that

we would look at each other and be like be free like stupid things like I just free woman is and everyone I always talk to is like

eh free woman eh and I'm always like what how could you hear I'm a free woman and not be like laughing your ass off

and dancing at the same time I'm a free woman yeah yeah yeah yeah and I'm a free woman like just, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm a free woman. Like, just so simple and kind of stupid. But it's Gaga. Okay.

And then, I'm not having fun tonight. Love it. So fun. Chromatica 2 into 911. Iconic, obviously. Iconic. What's your favorite one that you've seen smashed up as a meme on Twitter? You know, you want to know something?

What? I was over it pretty quickly. And I just like... What? Every single one made me laugh. I guess... I guess, like, honestly... And I know this sounds basic, quote-unquote.

But it's like... The first, like the, the perfect nexus was the meme and, um, like statues of colonizers being torn down. Like it took my breath away. Like people taking down a statue of a colonizer and just being like, oh my God,

like that's fun. It's dramatic. And it's also like, I know I'm being like, this is like, this meets the moment, but like, I don't know that that's kind of like, as as i saw that i was like great okay cool like no need

to see like other ones see and i'm gonna i'm gonna completely no i'm gonna be trash and say my favorite one was uh it went over at least i'm gonna be in like were people doing coke in your bathroom oh yeah yeah that's a good one kyle then, like, Kyle Richards gasping, and they're all like... And then another one was when Lisa Rinna threw the glass. Like, I just love Chromatica 2 into 9-1-1. Anything Lisa Rinna. That's huge. Yeah, it's not even Beverly Hills. It's Lisa Rinna.

I mean, Icon, who was celebrated today, actually, in a BuzzFeed article saying that Lisa Rinna is one of the best Beverly Hills cast members because she acts as a producer while creating content. Yes, she's one of the best housewives, I would say. I think that she is iconic housewife and

iconic person and of course I identify as Lisa Rinna. Of course. Plastic doll, I love. 9-1-1. Oh, 9-1-1. I love. It's like a... I just, I think it's so computery and like robot gaga and I'm obsessed yeah um plastic

doll we love love it um sour candy obsessed obsessed even though do you think it's too similar to swish swish oh I didn't make that connection I don't think it is but swish swish was also house I mean't make that connection. I don't think it is. But Swish Swish was also House. I mean, they're just inspired.

They're drawing from the same source material in a way. Like, you know, they're both like inspired by that era of like Robin S. Like House music. So sweet and I get a little angry, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So can he. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love the Blackpink girls.

I love a K-pop crossover. Enigma, I love. Yeah, I love Enigmapink girls. I love a K-pop crossover. Enigma, I love. Yeah, I love Enigma. Replays, yeah, you go far. No, just giving you pure, like, again, I'm gonna say it, like, it sounds like a Robinette song. And, like, she's giving you vocals that are, like,

oh, no, this is why I love Alice. I'm gonna go back to Alice because it sounds like Crystal Waters. It sounds like Gypsy Woman. It's just like, this is why I love Alice I'm gonna go back to Alice because it sounds like Crystal Waters it sounds like um Gypsy Woman it's just like it's just that and like it's just the DNA

is like throughout the whole album of just like this specific sonic like take um replay it's a skip I just don't love it you know what I mean and I love the second half of the album but I just replayed I was. You know what I mean? And I love the second half of the album, but I just replayed. I was like...

The production on the chorus, like... Not even the actual lyrics, but it's after she sings, replay, replay. And then there's the... That warped vocal is great. Yeah, I mean, it's good.

It's great. Chromatica 3. Into Sign From Above. I love Sign From Above. I love Sign From Above. I think it's like the drag moment of the whole thing and Elton John, I saw one sign from above. His gay baritone ass stomping into the club.

Oh my God. Still got it. Still got it. Elton, big fag. A Thousand Doves. Listen, I love to make fun of A Thousand Doves, but it's... I mean, come on. It's one of the only...

Not the only. It's one of the most memorable hooks, I think. Sure, sure, sure. And she's just screaming her fucking face screaming it's called 1000 doves I know it's so it's camp it's fun it's it's silly it's like classic gaga and then finally I mean this is like black

cheese and salmon fashion like just like pure pure like so like like the like heart of queer culture like it's ballroom it's like so i don't know i love it i love it i love it so much babylon babylon battle for your life i mean battle for your life battle on that's gossip is such a fun like that's gossip it's so it's such

like a fun turn of phrase to throw in and like it's just a way to identify the song immediately it's just it's it's brilliant it's patrick rogers always does that in the middle of anyone's sentence he just that's gossip that's gossip it's very funny every time every time and future guests because you all should be listening to the rear view as well yes uh new podcast uh brought to you by Grindr. Lovely. Grindr, which I was recently blocked and kicked off from because too many people were reporting my account as catfishing. And I had to be like,

Wow. No, it's unfortunately me. And I'm unfortunately, you know, shopping for, I'm not, I'm just window shopping at this point. I can't even like. Well, girl, you know who to contact to get back on. Miss Rogers herself. No, I talked to some lovely person named oliver um and had to take a photo of me with a piece of paper that said some like that had my email address on it so you know oliver has

that anyway well anyway i i do we do support the podcast which is yes oh my god please listen to miss monique hart miss chester lockhart miss jay jordan and miss patrick rogers and we hope to have several of them on the podcast chester chester is an icon they're all icons they're all icons monique obviously is an icon jay jordan we love jay jordan we've been meaning to have on the podcast for ages we love him and we have to i we have to have my sister patrick on because it has to be we have to represent the house i i really want everyone to meet the house once and i'm warning you guys like i i i would hear matt and patrick before i met patrick i would hear matt use this term throw around this term the like house house house h-a-u-s and i'd be like okay what's going on there and then when you meet when

you see matt and patrick together you go that's house that's got it's very house it does a house energy you know house energy and you know it's really beautiful and I gotta say I'll save it for the episode when Patrick comes on but I I will preview my sentiment by saying like seeing you two be together was just like okay I can let Matt

go you know you are the stupidest bitch in the wild west that's the sentiment no that is not the way you felt that is the way I felt tonight you just felt that I would be taken care of in Los Angeles you didn't feel you could let me go stupid well I mean

you'll never let me go those are companion thoughts and sentiments I will never let you go if you let me go I'll be go, I'll be really upset. I'll be really upset, too. Should we move on? I don't think so, honey. I think so, because you really upset me. Aww. And Matt just wrapped on Hot Dog,

and he is wearing his gorgeous robe with his name embroidered on it. I've never gotten a wrap gift like that, by the way. And slippers with dog's heads as the slippers! Oh my god. They're so comfy. That's the biggest slipper I've seen in my life. Well, you know, Jane was fighting with the shoes. Oh, Jane thought it was a dog.

She thought so. I'm thinking about getting a dog is my announcement. I think you should get a dog. Oh. I think it's pretty much time. Yeah, you have dog energy. Especially now that we're in the car and i'm feeling like if i was gonna get one now would be a good time although you know i was talking to

just about this who's the head judge on the show yes and i was like is now a good time to adopt a dog and because i was thinking like you don't want to adopt a dog and then have the dog think that you being around all the time is normal and not be able to socialize it correctly because what i would hate to happen is for the dog to uh be confused when life restarts again and um all of a sudden i don't i don't i don't want the dog to be anxious or have a complex that i'm leaving it. So what did Jess say? She said that she agrees with that, but it is ultimately a good time because you do need to focus a lot of time

in the beginning on training the dog. Yeah. Because I do want to get a young dog. I think I'm obviously going to adopt a rescue. Good dog, young dog. Young dog, rescue dog. Beautiful coat. Good performer. young dog. Young dog, rescue dog. Beautiful coat. Good performer.

Good performer. Producer. Producer of hopefully not pooping the house. Oh. Young producer. And Matt's baby. Matt's baby. You know, it's a conversation I'm having with myself and those around me.

But, you know, I have a lot of stuff here already I count as those around you you do you count I mean your opinion here matters I think you would take very good care of it yes I think I would too I think I would like one that is an energy match for me and I did see one

on a website where and I think it was actually a hint that I should get him because his name was Richard and I would name him Dickie. Dickie. You with a dog named Dickie is not even on the nose. It's just like, it's perfect.

I don't know why I went on the nose. Dickie just seems, it's just silly and fun. For me to have a dog named Dickie on the nose, it's because of my huge wiener yes um anyway uh thinking about it thinking about it but while i think about it we should do i don't think so honey okay this is our one minute segment where we rail on something in the culture for one minute as i've said matt do you have something you had alluded to something earlier i do okay so this is

matt rogers i don't think so honey his Matt Rogers, I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Y'all needing Taylor Swift to be gay and continuing this gay queer narrative. Shut the fuck up. Please, please stop. Because if she were queer, I know we would know it.

Because she would have been unable to withhold it in her lyricism. And actually, you saying that Taylor Swift is queer and hiding it from us, you're insulting her. you are insulting and assaulting her honesty in her music and I would never do that as a Taylor fan you assault her when you do this and let me just say this I don't think so honey the whole Taylor Swift and Karlie Kloss narrative because I don't think that she would date someone that was so I'm not even gonna call her anything I'm just gonna I just don't think she would date Karlie Kloss I think that Taylor Swift would date someone like,

I don't know. Not that Carly Kloss isn't interesting, but interesting. Like someone like Clea. I don't know. I just think that Taylor Swift, to say that she's a lesbian and queer baiting is like an album cycle ago.

Catch up. The new thing we're saying about Taylor is that she cooks soups and lays in the grass and tries psychedelics. If you're going to assert a narrative about her, it's that she's a drug user. I don't think so, honey, anything else. And that's one minute. Okay, so that's a rule. So if you're going to assert anything about her,

let it be that she's a drug user. That's rule of culture number seven. If you're going to assert anything about Taylor, it's that she's a Swift. It's not that she's a lesbian. It's that she's a drug user. In 2020. In 2020. I think

I don't buy the Karlie Kloss narrative. I don't buy Kayla. Never did. I don't ship them even. I don't even care if they're but. So boring. I think that she is still queering her music even though she's not herself

gay. She is definitely looking like a little lesbian in the spotify videos that played during the song she definitely is wearing her her hair in a way that i would describe as questioning i think she is just expanding her parameters of her gender expression and that's and that's lovely She's literally expressing her gender differently in Betty, let's say. Okay, so I think that's different than expressing her queerness or queerbaiting.

I think it's artistic and I think that she is being a storyteller in the purest form. I'm very facetiously being like, she's a lesbian, she's a lesbian. Obviously not, she's not and you know whatever but that's not for me

to label and designate but I think she is doing a fun queering of her songwriting we need to have Jill on the show we need to have Jill on the show because Jill rocks we're gonna have Jill on I'm just saying that she is like

she's like dipping her toe into like a different gender expression. That's it. Into a like expanded gender expression. That's all. Which is great. I just think once it gets caught up in a sensationalist narrative about whether or not she's queer, I'm not comfortable with it in the year of our Lord 2021.

I don't think this should be as big of a deal. And I think that she'd be honest about it because I think she's been honest about so much recently that why would she withhold that from us when she understands the importance that her words and actions hold now? You know what I mean? Sure. The way that people like Jill are writing about it on Vulture is, is,

is in a very facetious. Yeah. Oh my God. No, Jill is not. Jill are writing about it on Vulture is in a very facetious tone. Oh my God, no. Jill is being fun about it and being a sleuth about it. And what am I being about it? She is a lesbian sleuth. You, as always, are being a sensationalist. And I've been saying this about you for years. You're a sensationalist.

And your aim is to make money. I believe that you are in this industry to make money off of the foibles of others. I think that's why you go to SNL and that's why you asked them to be on the show. Yeah. And I think you asked them to be on the show. Them to be on the show. You asked SNL if you could be on the show and they said yes. Oh, and they said yes.

Because you wanted to go out there and portray. And make money off the foibles of other people. You wanted to make money off the foibles of other people and that is how SNL works you asked them to be on with an agenda with an agenda you have a queer agenda I have to say something

Bowen Yang has a very queer agenda which is crazy because he's white and straight and I keep saying this I don't know what your end game is, but I am along for the ride. It's, um, it's just,

it's all subterfuge. I'm not who I seem. I never mean what I say. And that's true. Okay. Smoke and mirrors down, down boots. Okay,

let's go. Let's go. This is, are you going to, you're going to leave me in? No. Um, here we go.

Yes. This is bone yanks. I don't think so, honey. And his one minute starts yanks i don't think so honey and his one minute starts now i don't think so honey matt rogers not saying a fucking peep about charlie xcx's quarantine album what i'm feeling now it is i think it beats out folklore as like a quarantine work she wrote produced recorded that album in what like four weeks time and i think it's one of her best works oh my god it is so phenomenal the songwriting is so experimental and she she is she is the one to watch she's the future of pop she is like expanding the parameters i'll say that i'll use that phrase again and you

have been silent on her have you seen her live have you seen her live i have seen her live actually i don't think i have but i keep going keep going stop it don't i don't think so honey oh let me let me let me do a two-parter i don't think so many people who think that seeing an artist live grants them any sort of legitimacy and their stand-in when obviously some of us are casual listeners and go see them i've been don't give a shit about when their quarantine album drops i'm gonna give you 10 more seconds a masterpiece so i've seen i have i i stand plenty is, in fact, a masterpiece. So I've seen, I stand plenty of artists

who I've never seen live. And I've seen plenty of artists live who I don't care for at all. And that's one minute. What do you think about that? Let me tell you something right now. I actually haven't heard the new Charlie XCX album.

And why not? Because I was depressed at the time. So were all of us. Everyone does depression differently, stupid. And you should know that. And you should know that. You should know it. And I will listen to it because I love Charlie.

And what's your whole thing about seeing her live? Because I have seen her live. I've actually paid the dollars to support the girl. And so you have it. Did you pay the dollars or did someone be, was someone like, hey Matt, I have an extra ticket to Charlie. How foolish a question to ask on this i think that's dad that's actually what happened

no someone had an extra ticket what happened was it was actually bought for me but i venmoed the person who bought it okay wise ass you didn't actually like like go about the task of buying a ticket to see her show literally I did spend here's how here's how confident I am that what I did was right no because I didn't you didn't go after the tickets dropped and was like I gotta go see Charlie I was told there be a concert

of Charlie XCX what does that mean would you like to go I said she wasn't even the only act performing she wasn't even the only act performing was she wasn't even the only act performing, was she? No, that's not true. So thank you for reminding me. No, thank you for reminding me that I've seen her twice. When I saw her at Go West Fest, we went to go see Troy perform.

That doesn't count. Festivals don't count, sweetie. No, it did because she was one of the top three reasons I went. I went for Troy, Kim, and Charlie. And also, shut up. Why haven't you looked into the album? And I went to go see Charlie on her own tour, which Jared said, would you like to go? I said, absolutely yes.

And I then bought him for the tickets. So yes, I did pay. Now, why haven't I listened to the new album? Because it wasn't released in like a major way. I didn't know about it. Yes, it was. And at the time I was feeling depressed and I feel that I will be given the space now to go listen to it and not deal with any grief from you, miss.

Oh my God. You are tuning out like such huge cultures on the internet who like we're waiting with bated breath for this album to drop. You have no idea the stand-up. I respect and I am part of it. I just haven't listened to that one album. Sometimes you know how I am. You know how I am. You know, I know how you are. I tell you, this to that one album. Sometimes you know how I am. You know how I am. You know,

I know how you are. I tell you, this thing is really cool. You should check it out. And you say, Hmm, maybe. And you never know.

It's not that it's just that whenever I have a new album coming out, I feel like I need time. Like for example, why haven't you talked about Dua? Because that was like four or five months ago. No, you still haven't said anything I have publicly talked about Dua on my own platforms on your own platforms

yes on my own platforms we are two independent people with our own independent spheres of influence I'm not hearing enough Dua I'm not I'm not hearing enough Charlie I'm not hearing enough Dua I'm not I'm not hearing enough Charlie I'm not hearing enough Dua I'm not seeing enough Dua concerts

this is the thing is that Ellen Pompeo didn't even really say it in that way just so we have like revisionistly made her say I'm not I'm not seeing enough color this is the way she said it and I'm not seeing enough color but we have like twisted the standard

we've made it into I'm not seeing enough color I'm not seeing enough color, but we have like twisted this down. We've made it into, I'm not seeing enough color. I'm not seeing enough color, which I wish is how she said it. Which I wish is how she said it. The jury's out on how she said it. No one can ever know. And we can never know.

You have to listen to Charlie. Can we talk about, quickly talk about this being a music episode, the smash. Holiday by Little Mix. quickly talk about this being a music episode. The smash fuck. Holiday by Little Mix. That is Holiday by Little Mix. I mean, you all out there readers, it's actually really important

that you don't sleep on Little Mix. You don't sleep on Little Mix. And can I give a shout out to Ho Why Is You Here by Flo Millie, the 20-year-old, 19-year-old at the time of recording, wunderkind there are some there's a track called pussycat doll Matt you have to listen to it oh my god you're gonna love it

she's like giving you full on an amazing mixtape anyway holiday by little mix yes another song that I feel gets lost in the conversation is react by the pussycat dolls who are back yes amazing and I feel like that's a fucking track and a half and Nicole is serving on it.

And the video is, you can't believe how they look. I haven't seen the video. I will check it out. Oh my God, Bowen. It is vagina to the sky. I love that. It is crazy.

So that and also, oh my God, there's one more. There's one more that I don't want to miss. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. There's a lot of good stuff. Oh, Chloe and Hall hallie we gotta love yeah they're slaying it and you know what we're getting very soon black is king black is king this friday even we're talking about an album of the year that could be entirely women and we love that

chromatica folklore probably a front runner no but let me watch they'll give it to chain smokers who are canceled now by the way after their they certainly will not give it to chain smokers now i'm kidding um any other little culture that you want to touch on no i mean i i was excited that this was gonna be a music focused one i think i mean music is kind of the the um thing that i think we're all sort of enjoying collectively on the same level uh we in the royal we let's give it up to will ferrell our daddy for charting charting with a song who's a vic from eurovision the film something that was successful very slayed on on netflix we love you we love you will ferrell check him out if you haven't already um yeah that's that's that's the culture I want to talk about. Well, we love

this episode of music. Yes, yes. And you know, I thank you for going on a musical journey. I see where you are on the East Coast. It's sort of getting a little darker, a little bit darker. A little bit darker. And here, you know, it's merely

five. I hope you are enjoying your time of rest. You've been through a lot of strain and work, you know, it's merely five. I hope you are enjoying your time of rest. You've been through a lot of strain and work and I'm so excited to see this project. I look forward. I think it's going to be great. I can't wait. And you can be looking for that one and to quote Sheree Whitfield

from The Real Housewives of Atlanta, more September. More September. More September. More summer. More summer. More September. Joggers. Joggers. More September is iconic. More September. more September more September more summer more summer spring more September joggers

joggers more September is iconic more September I watched there was a thread on Twitter which was

the best like single Real Housewives of Atlanta lines and who don't check me boo is never ever ever gonna be lost

I love Kenya going it's time to die it's time to die who wants to die the iconic is the iconic nini close your legs to marry man trash bag who said that who said that who said that also who said that i mean uh iconic iconic all iconic and also Them explaining to Portia that the Underground Railroad Was not a real railroad

Oh let's shout out Miss Derek we're going to talk about Drag Race in a couple Episodes or maybe the next episode but Let's shout out Derek Berry for wearing a shirt in the finale That said nobody died nobody Was killed no one was killed Nobody was killed I mean maybe she's an iconic

we love Derek and I guess yeah on the next episode which you'll have to tune in to find out what it is we will I feel like that's alluding to the fact that it's going to be one of the queens it's not going to be one of the queens however we are having one of the queens one of the iconic queens one of the winners

of drag race is going to be on very soon won't spoil it but they're coming and we're so excited and uh we'll talk more about drag race in the next episode and probably the one after yeah um so lots of talk about that and in the meantime we're celebrating shea coulee and also giving big ups to jujubee and miss cracker as well they were amazing that was great and good top three. That was great. And they're incredible queens. But yeah, you know Shay deserved that one all the way. And as we always do, we'll close out with a song.

As we always do. And I can see you slipping away. Do you know the words? I can see you slipping away. Looking for one in time. And you were never mine. See, I'm not off book on it yet. And I can see you twisting in bed sheets. I can see you slipped away. Looking for one in time. Oh, it's such a beautiful song.

It's really good. Hey, if you haven't stream folklore by Taylor Swift, we get a cut of the stream dollars. Just kidding. We don't. I wish we did. And also just an announcement. I'm not releasing a folklore album.

So stop asking it for it. I was released. I released a lover. Oh, I know. Can't make fun for it. I released a lover and that's it. That's all you get. Can't make fun of folklore. There's no hook. For the next one, for the next album in like three years. I almost did one that was like, no one knows this,

but she actually did a folklore. She started recording this folklore in May, but she also recorded an entire album in March and April when quarantine first started. Here is that album I almost did that that's really good and it was just gonna be well I don't know maybe I'll still do it you should still do it and then

now that you've said it the fans will the readers will scream for it they'll be gagging so okay now for real let's close out with this song okay um he said let's get out of this town drive out of the city. Away from the crowd.

I thought I can't help now. Nothing lasts forever. But this is getting good now. So listen to the rest of that. You have to listen to 1989 by Taylor Swift. The track is Wildest Dreams. Bye. Bye. Bye. crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars.

We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're going to find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez

was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts. I'm Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports

and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll.

This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer.

Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.