Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "The Mayor" (w/ Laura Dern)

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Um, is this thing on? Because a pink corduroy-clad Laura Dern bursts like the sun into the Las Cultch studio to speak with Matt & Bowen at length and... that's OUR world! That's the world that WE're livin' in. Dern whips out a Reese impression, discusses channeling anger better than anyone in the biz, talks creating Amy Jellicoe alongside Mike White in Enlightened, and gets into both the comedic and dramatic brutality of Big Little Lies. Also, defining wonder whilst looking up at CGI Brachiosaurii, starring as Ellen's gay love interest in The Puppy Episode of her sitcom, and even more on Jeff Goldblum's chest, if you can believe it. All this, growing up in Hollywood in a different era, reflections on the current status of the entertainment industry, going punk rock at 12 years old, David Lynch as niche yet mainstream culture, and Laura's real life interaction with a Real Housewife. See one of Laura's thousands of current projects (Is This Thing On?, Jay Kelly, Palm Royale on Apple TV+), as well as her millions of indelible ones you probably already love. I SAID THANK YOU!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm Bowen-Yen. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina-2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boen, hi, Matt, hi, hey, Elmo.

Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. to Two Guys Five Rings on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between.

Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people, some have answers. Most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by black people because of what happened in Alabama? This Black History Month, the podcast, Selective Ignorance with Mandy B, unpacked black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo. The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hair styles, associated with race.

To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Look, man. Where?

Oh, I see. Wow. Boen, look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las cultureistas.

Ding dong. Las Couturistas calling. So basically, a burst of sunlight has come in in pink corduroy. Which is, um, a fabric.

that must be hard to deal with as on a construction level. Well, they say that on Project Runway. They did because I'm looking at what's before me. Impeccable. This would walk the runway and she could walk the runway in it and they would say, whoever is on the judging. It has pockets. I know exactly where she's going.

It has pockets. I love when they say, it has pockets as a way to be like, well done. And finally, this is a 10 out of 10. Practical, functional. Are they not right, though? Absolutely. You had pockets, you did something.

And that's actually Real Culture Number 9. You had pockets, you did something. Hot, cloth, any pocket. Not only does our guest have pockets. Our guest has, let's talk about the hardware, an Oscar, an Emmy, a SAG Award, multiple Golden Globe Awards. I mean, a couple glass ones, too. Because not all awards are gold or brass or metal.

Some of them are glass. That's Real Culture number 10. Not all awards are gold or brass or brass. Some of them are glass. And it must be a nightmare to sort of wade through our guest's foyer because there's so many awards to knock over. And shoes.

And pink corduroy garments. Pink corduroy garments. The mud room must be full of the stuff. The fact is this is a genuine pop culture icon lasting over the years. I was saying to Bowen, it feels like Hollywood is a neighborhood. And our guest would be able to greet anyone on the

street and warmly and like the mayor, but not the mayor because it's not a political thing. It's just kind of like, I'm here and you can come to me. Yes. Anyone has questions? Like, come to me. Everybody good? She's the RA of the dorm of Hollywood. But a cool RA that gets fired like I did.

Famously. She's a fucking legend. I'm so beyond. She's in, we were just talking to her earlier before. Just kind of a little, little moose of a conversation. Right. It's like the best bush. She's like at least 20 things to promote right now. So it's like, oh, but when you're you, like you don't, any time on the calendar is the right time to just talk, talk about the stuff.

Yeah, exactly. There's always going to be a thing. Palm Royale season two just finished, executive producer on that. Jay Kelly is this thing on. Oh, my God. Bradley Cooper loves a shaky camera that just kind of winds around you. And finds you. And finds you.

I still, so I just watched the Starsborn again because I, by the way, famously saw it five times opening weekend. That's like sort of where I am on the Kinsey scale. That's what is that like an 11 out of six? If you see Stars Born five times opening weekend. The man has talents. The man has many gifts. He eats shit in this movie.

I can't deal exactly with that. But you can. You can. In the cinema. In the cinema. And I'm sure on streaming at some point. Like everything. Like everything.

We're thrilled to have her. Everyone in the room at home. Hold on to your butts, as it were. Hold on to your butt. Everyone welcome. Lester! You guys! Thank you for the shoutout of my pink corduroy.

It's really working. I mean, I'll thank Gabriella Hurst who designed this, but I will say, I think Reese should have worn this on the show. You know, she came in just like a basic black. How was she not in full pink corduroy? Do you think maybe she felt it would be on the nose? It would have been too on the nose. Sure. Which is why I can do it and then pay homage to her.

Exactly. Through my pink corduroy. Because really we're here to talk about Reese. Well, you guys talked about me. She told me. She's like, derr. Oh my God. I went on their show and we talked about you.

It's funny. So you have a Reese. Right. Reese has a Nicole. Does Nicole have a you? I think that. Oh, no, no, no. Wait, how does that go?

Yes. Nicole, what's the circle here? Nicole does have a me She does have a U. What do you think is a you impression? I think it involves like using my

arms and hands way too much when I'm talking and now I'm just going to like stop. Don't be self-conscious about it. I feel like it's very you know it's her doing but I think it's very animated.

Yeah. Because the gesticulation is people keep it at the wrists at the fingers they just articulate this way But you're going full elbow shoulder. I think if mimicked it would be, yeah, you'd have to really. You'd have to give it your all.

It's like I always refer to myself as when I get excited as one of those balloons outside of a car wash. So it's not quite that. I relate to that, though. Right. But we actually were talking and I was like, I remember watching White Lotus and when you, this was, I think the second season. Oh, yeah. When you had a voice performance.

as Imperiali's estranged wife. And I remember listening to it. And the way that like the anger built, I was like, you know what's so funny? Like for someone that's such a sunny person and clearly such a friendly person and such a kind person, you do anger the best of anyone. Aw. Do you? I agree. I wanted to ask you about that.

What the fuck do you mean by that? And I'm a little scared. But I wanted to ask you about that. Like, do you, when you get a script that calls for anger, like, you really lock in. Like, is that an emotion you enjoy portraying? Yeah, maybe. I mean, I'm sure there are people in my life, like my own children that would say I'm not always sunny. But I do like to look at life with glass half full, which as we know, like the glass is just like,

Yeah, it gets It's not all liquid in there sometimes. No. But I think then, you know, we become very blessed if we get to like work it all out for the character. Yes.

So I think I'm just, I've been bottling it up, I guess, for years. And so my characters have given me room to explore all the things I obviously have been feeling. Yeah. But, you know, just.

Well, I think what broke the seal was probably enlightened. Absolutely. It was like an unleashing of something. that was meant to be like contained or something, right? It's like, Amy's whole thing is like, oh, no, I'm good now. Yeah. And then, like, clearly she will always be at the mercy of, like, a corporate structure or a wellness idea.

Like, and those things just bear down on you. And then you have no choice but to, like, lash out. I know. We love her so much. Amy Jellico. Amy Jellico. I love her. Yeah.

I mean, you know, sadly, it's probably the character I could be forever. Yeah. If I chose like I, and I think Mike White feels the same way. I think we both feel like we are Amy, but we meet Amy every day. Of course. And we're all Amy now. And what's incredible about his writing and I think our idea was based on, it was actually after the 2000 election and we were noticing like pre the iPhone revolution. There was this moment where there's unrest and no one's in the street.

And we thought, you know, a lot about who, what kind of person would it take? And I was talking to the head of HBO because we'd made the film recount for HBO. Oh, which I loved. I loved that movie. You were fantastic in that. So crazy to play that character and person. And we were working on it. And I had said to Richard Plipler, who was at HBO at the time, you know, what what kind of individual does it take? I've got to play that person. And when I was talking to Mike about it, my summary of not even knowing who Amy was yet or in the writing of it, I said, what if I love Lucy? What if Lucy became Norma Ray?

Wow. I was like that, I think, is who it would take. And that was sort of the birth of then this person. Who I think, you know, is Amy. She's just a mess and thinks she's doing the right thing, but in all the wrong ways. And then, you know, she gets a platform. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. And the platform is, yeah. Give her a soapbox. And, oh, honey. What if I love Lucy became Norma Ray? Yeah, that's it. That's. And I mean, then the world would be a better place.

I love that world. But a lot of people, it's too much. Amy Jellico, I think, would be way more. Like, I think the reason why she was popping so much when Enlightened first came out is because we were like, we don't, we've never seen this. Exactly. And now we're all Amy. Yeah. I mean, I think the world is so overwhelming to everyone.

Right. That everyone has a little bit of amy. Yeah. Yeah. And we're the better for it. Yes, exactly. Exactly. I think.

But I think that's my theory. And this is just me totally projecting that on you. But I feel like that is that kind of, not that you ever asked for it, but it gave this permission for you in this new zone of your career to like just dial it up, dial it down. It goes into Renata. It goes into all of these different people. It goes into marriage story. Like that model is so beautifully set. I think I think you kind of just hollowed that out for everybody. Well, that's beautiful to hear. I have to say, I think it's because suddenly women for the first time were in leadership positions. So suddenly the characters changed because

the world had changed. Yeah. Like I wasn't. going to play the leading divorce attorney or the head of some tech company in the early 90s when I started because there were no women in those positions. So we couldn't examine the way that they like were scrutinized or the way they behaved in those positions because they didn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. I think about the movie I did Citizen Ruth and I love that character, Ruth Stoops in this Alexander Payne comedy about the abortion issue. And someone was like, oh, you know, there's this scene that's very anthemic where she gets to talk about her rights. Yeah.

And I was like, what's funny about it, because that movie's hilarious to me, is it's not that she says what her rights are. It's that she doesn't even realize she has rights. And so it's so janky and not, she's not sure. And at the end of this speech, I turned the people next to me after I say, you know, I'm a woman and I have my right to choose. And then I looked at Kurtwood Smith and all these protesters next to me and I go, right? Like, you know, she, did I get that right? Am I allowed to say that?

So, you know, growing up, the characters that I got to play who were exploring sexuality for the first time but didn't know if they were entitled to it or it was all new. And then suddenly I grew up as a woman into a world where the characters changed and suddenly I was looking at. at, you know, the leaders in their industries, which gave me the ability to have rage or or say what I needed or, you know, be not only disarming, but even cruel to a man in the room or whatever, depending on the character. And that was so fun because it was all new. Yeah, I feel like it's like with Renata, it's, she's so outsized, but she is so righteous. She believes all of it. Because she's right, Matt.

We agree. And it's truly like, I will never forget. I said thank you. That was, I think, the moment where I was like, because I remember we were on this podcast and because it was kind of a slow burn in the beginning Big Little Lies. You remember. I guess so. Yeah.

I mean, now it's hard to look back on it without seeing it as like a phenomenon right off the bat. But it took a few episodes. And I remember we were watching it and I was like, you guys might want to check out Big Little Lies because there's something really. cool happening. And when you screamed, I said thank you. That was for me when I realized like this tone is really something new. Because it was a comedy when you and Reese were on screen and a drama when Nicole was on screen. But then there were moments that were like really almost brutal when those tones collided. And I felt like that was a perfect example. And I was like,

we're seeing something super fresh here. Yeah. And that speaks to Jean-Marc Valet, the director, who is such an incredible filmmaker. Amazing. And Reese and I made the film Wild with him. Yes, you did. And then kind of big little lies was right after that. And so it was just beautiful to have that kind of trust, you know, found family and our work and life is the greatest thing that ever happened to any of us.

And so I just would go wherever he said. And we'd done something so pure, and the character I had played only came from kindness, being Cheryl Strait's mother in that film. And so he was just like, you know, we're going everywhere now. Like, this woman takes no prisoners. She just goes. And everything was improvisational. And he always, the camera was handheld.

I was wondering about that. Yeah, we were just trying stuff. And he was so inventive. but it created, again, room for, I think, the comedy of it, but also the rage and the violence and horror of what was happening at times to these women, particularly Nicole's character. Yeah, it helped so much. And your tribute today to Reese's character, to Cheryl and Wiley is that you brought a huge backpack

and it's over on the side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, we're all going on the PCT. We are. We've been waiting for an excuse. We're waiting for an excuse to get physical. Miles. 1800.

What? That's like 90 marathons. You put your hands in the dino poop. You would do it. I feel like whatever it is, you would do it. Guys, I'm a professional paleontologist. Yes. I mean, are there things about your career that you like remember, not misremember,

but that when the memory of it comes up, it is totally surprising to you, even though it like happened to you, you've registered it. But it's like, there's such an expansive breadth there that you're like, oh my God, when I did Citizen Ruth, like, this is a totally different reality in the world, in my life, in my, me as Laura Dern. Like, I mean, like, what is that? How does that square with you? Like, you looking back.

And I know you don't, I know actors don't really do this. They don't look back on their career and go, wow, I can't believe this. But as we're having a conversation with you about your career, like, do you think that memory gets a little, refracted in a way? I think it has to, and I think as long as we are willing to be present, truly present, in invention, in bravery, and honesty, then we never have to catch up because we get to just be there. And I'm going to say something about you.

because humility as a deep part of someone's nature. You have it or you don't. And I had the pleasure of being in the room when you received an award at the Academy Museum. Oh, you were, that's... And you were incredible because you weren't in the experience of what was happening to you. You weren't in the experience of your success

or this new moment, you were in the experience of being grateful for the opportunities you've been given, for your friends being in celebration of you having had the opportunity to do what you love, not in your achievements. And it was so beautiful to just hear your gratitude. You were tender and emotional as you shared it. Like you were just deeply grateful. You can't fake it. You can't know, nobody can write a speech for you to sound hum.

But you were purely in the moment. So even in 20 years when someone says, wow, is that a big moment in your career when people were, I know from your generosity in that moment, you'll be like, God, yeah, if I had realized what a big moment it was, maybe I would have been more nervous or more, but it wouldn't change you because your nature is in great, and being so grateful. And that was so beautiful to see in a room filled with, you know, artists and film industry and all that stuff. I'm shuddering at the, because it's just like, oh my gosh, like you were there. And it was just if I think about that list of people, I'm like, oh, that's, that's incredibly overwhelming.

But I'm so, thank you for saying that. Well, it's really beautiful. I really moved me. And I, you know, I think if I in my career had someone. saying, oh, by the way, the movie you're doing right now is going to be iconic. You can't. You can't do it. You can't.

And you've been like, and it's been true for you in like niche iconic and also the most mainstream iconic. And I just, I remember like, it's like everyone talks about like, you know, the word wonder is defined by Laura Dern discovering the brachiosaurus. Did I get that dinosaur right? Yes, you did. That was an dinosaur. Of course.

Come on, paleontologists down. But, like, it is true. It's like, if Steven Spielberg says to you like, now remember, this is going to be what people remember about the movie. It's impossible. You're going to define the word wonder. You better make sure that you really define the word wonder right now with your performance, Laura Durham, because this is history forever, for millennia. For millennia. But it's just, it is fascinating to think about that.

It's like it's being committed to celluloid there in what? Three, four takes, five, six. Yeah. But then and then it's forever. Three. Oh, no. Do you move quickly on a movie that's that big? Mm-hmm.

You have to come up. You do. Until a dinosaur breaks down. I guess, like my brain did not compute that so many of those dinosaurs were actually practical. Isn't that incredible? I mean, insane. Especially a massive part of the T-Rex, which was the only ornery actor we worked with. Like he would break here and there.

Similar to Bruce the shark from John. Exactly. These guys and their egos. But it was amazing. I mean, sadly, the brachiosaurus was an ex on a piece of paper stuck up in the tree. She was not there with us. But the raptors were there. That's scary. Yeah.

And people are like, oh, my God, to act with something that's not there. First of all, an incredible animatronic, thanks to the genius of Stan Winston, was right there. And I'm alone. Yep. And the lights go on. This thing comes out at me. And there are puppeteers who are making it scared. I was so scared.

Of course. Your body doesn't know the difference. Yes. Right. But those brachiosauri, they were humble by nature. Whoa. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no.

Because you know it's not brachiosauruses. You just sound like a crazy person. But it's brachiosauri. No way. I think it's brachiosauri. I mean, that was incredible. But I don't know. I'm going out of the land.

I'm able to say that. I don't think I would have been that. You're a woman of letters. You are a paleontologist. You would have known. But yes, sorry, we interrupted. We were so moved by your brachiosaurus. I even meant to say those raptors, they are humble by nature.

You think humility is by nature. You don't think there's a, you either are humble or you're not. You don't think there's like some spectrum there. I think life can teach you humility. Yes. For sure. It can bring us to our knees without question. But as we know.

Yes. And I mean, I think we can see faces. in our heads right now, there are some people that no matter what happens, they will never know humility. Of course. And that's just unfortunate. And usually it's the people who continue to be placed in positions of power or accolades or deep success.

Yes. We're talking about Jeff Goldblum. Don't get me started. Don't get me started. I have not received. A culture award. But Jeff Goldblum's chest out. Well, just you wait.

Can I say the cultural award was the fact that he... We're so sorry. First of all, we're so sorry. Yes, I'm out an apology. By the way, I've never had so much fun in my entire life and watching the entire award show with my daughter. Oh, my gosh. We had so much fun.

It's a masterpiece. It made you so happy. And yes, Jeff's chest should have won. Listen, the fact that he can... came out and was the first award. I was like, now people know they don't know what to expect. It's so incredible. The fact that he showed up and was down to do that just shows that he's the coolest.

That was amazing. But I would imagine he was even the coolest back then. Like, that's a cool group of people together. And he's humble, although I just wonder for any man in ego if he was like, how come they only designated it in the Jurassic Park? Like the fly wasn't enough. It's encouragement to see more. Yeah. There you go. There you go.

Designated from one film. In the Wicked prequel, in the Wicked prequel, I wanted to be all about. We saw in the movie Wicked that he was, sorry, he was a big slut. Back in the day, he was sleeping with. I know. There could be at least two buttons. What I'm saying is they, they, I want to see. Snap off in a song. I want to see it. Right? Just go into a song and, sexy wizard, pre the wizard.

Pre the Wizard. Sexy Wizard, just you had me there. Sexy Wizard was one, but. That was what we got. But now we're going to get the origin story, as it were. The first two buttons popping. Oh, yeah. There you go.

So do you do roller coasters? Are you at the end park person? Because Jurassic Park, you must be treated like a senator when you go there. I went once. Yes. First of all, it was terrifying. Well, yes. Terrifying.

The Veloccoaster? No, I went to just the Jurassic Park ride at Universal. Of course. The boat ride. The boat ride. Yeah. But the drop is terrifying. It's one of the largest drops.

Yeah. Thank you. And I was so scared and I was like when my kids were little and we were going to go and they had friends. I think it was a birthday party for one of the kids. And I didn't want to say I couldn't go. Which is like so. Let me like, guys, I can't go on a ride. It's literally my ride.

This is great. So what happened was, can you stop the ride? I want to expound. So this was a great day. But I, you know, was like just hanging out with my best. baseball cap. We did the ride. All was good. And walked through the gift shop, which you have to go through to get out. And it's like, me with the triceratops scene is playing and all these dolls that I didn't know existed. Of you? That looked like me. And it was a little awkward. But we moved through it.

You're a doll. You're a doll. You're a Lego. I have a minifag. Oh, thank you, Laura. It's so hard. You're a doll and a peach and more. Bowen is talking about the velocity. So if you ever do get down to Orlando, Florida, the Veloccoaster is the Jurassic Park ride they have in Islands of Adventure. And B.D. Wong does the pre-show. Excellent work. It's great pre-show work. I can't. Oh, my God, I'm so excited.

It's a full immersive experience. And it's a full-on roller coaster that launches through a Raptor enclosure. Pretty cool stuff down in Orlando, Florida. Great stuff. I can't wait. I'm going. If you have any interest in pre-show stuff for the, is this thing on ride,

I think you would do great work in that space. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, I'll sit and watch. With Peyton Manning next to you. Yeah, with Payton Manning. I know if someone was asking. You would have the on-screen romance with Peyton Manning.

I mean, I think, now that you think about it, like in hindsight, it's obvious. Right. Yo is throwing it back. 20s, the decade. To the days of huge hits. An unforgettable items. A non-stop stream of the biggest and best.

Drake, Rihanna, Beyonce, Katie Gaga, the weekend. And more. All your decade defining favorites all in one place. Hi, it's Katie Perry. Hey, it's Bruno Mars. This is Kesha. Find 2010's The Decade on the free IHeart Radio app. Preset the station so it's always one tap away.

What do you do in the headlines? Don't explain what's happening inside of you. I'm Ben Higgins. And if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. In each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff, identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore,

loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the I-Heart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Bowen-Yen. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys' Five Rings podcast in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bob, hi, Matt.

Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, boy. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, five rings on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop.

What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. To keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro. This is a story.

about the end of a marriage. But it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays on vulnerable and trusting people. Your creditor might go up and good. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I guess the question for you, like, is there one person you haven't worked with that you're dying to work with? Can you imagine if I said someone I have worked with? Of course. I mean, at this, you wouldn't be blamed.

Oh my God. But this is a podcast for manifestation, by the way. Many things happen as a result of things being set on this show. No. Okay. Let's examine. It just would be harder. It would be harder to manifest that.

But choose your own adventure here. Listen. You always have. I'd like to be with the Beatles. Yes. You'd be great. There's four movies coming out of that book. Guys, I mean, that's hard.

I've, um, I did work with De Niro in a scene, but I haven't gotten into it with De Niro. That would be a great pleasure. Honestly, I think about filmmakers first because when I was six, my mom, Diane Ladd was in the film. Alice doesn't live her anymore for Martin Scorsese. And I was on set. I was that summer with her on the movie. And I was an extra on the movie.

And he was the person who turned to my mother, which believe me, I heard. because they had to do 19 takes and I had to eat 19 ice cream cones in the background of this amazing scene and it's tough and it gets tough actually Yeah, actually for real

15 ice cream and he was like whoa, your daughter just ate 19 ice creams and didn't throw up he goes, she's going to be an actor She's method And I was like You know and I was sick

So all I knew was this man I'd been around all summer And they were doing this thing that I fell in love with And I didn't, I actually didn't understand acting. What I fell in love with was this man is figuring out how to film it. Yeah. And these actresses are creating their characters.

And together they're like feeding off of each other and like, tell that story about that one time you said, your friend. And they start building it, improvising, weaving lines from the scene into other stories and getting to the truth. of a moment. Yeah. And they were in there and he let me be, I was looking through a doorway they're in a,

in a toilet stall in the back of Mel's diner. And I was watching them just play together. And I thought, oh, I want to do that where you're with your friends telling stories together.

And so I felt so in love with that. So I would say the person I probably would want to the most would be Scorsese. Wow. Just to do a full circle. Close that loop.

It does feel like a perfect one-to-one. Absolutely. Yeah, that would be amazing. Yeah, I mean, your memory on this is so clear and obviously formative, but it just, so then I guess to like this answers the question that I had earlier, which is like how, how, like, how firmly grounded are you in those memories? And it seems like you are ten toes down all the way through. And is that the year that you went to the Oscars with, with your mother?

Yeah. Like seven years old. Yeah. because she was nominated because she, yeah. And, and then I think the other stories that, like, then you would go back with her and your grandmother for Rambling Rose. Yeah. Like, this, this kind of, like, I love, I love this thing about, like, you sort of, as it were, like, growing up in this industry as your neighborhood, because you get to see the process, you get to see the celebration of it. And then you also get to transcend that and just know that, like, this is.

a nice part of it, it is more about the work than anything else. And not even about like the going to the thing, although that's nice and fun. Yes. I have to say, I mean, I just feel so lucky that I had that childhood experience at the time I did. Because the neighborhood would be the true description of it. First of all, actors weren't making money. Movie stars were making not that much money. You know, it was a craft, and everyone made a little to go work in independent film, certainly in the 70s into the 80s and then became the blockbuster and the industry changed. But watching my parents work, you know, you would make a movie and I grew up in what felt like a small town. Yeah.

And I would go to my parents' friends' homes that were incredibly. well-regarded and famous, and they would be in their duplex or their small house, or, you know, but it wasn't like fancy luxury. Glamour was not the word. No. And paparazzi, like there was, you went to one event, which was the premiere of your movie where there were photographers. You did the Tonight Show.

And maybe you were on the cover of American Film Magazine. Right. And then, you know, in independent film, suddenly there was interview and you'd do interview. But that's kind of it. Yeah. It wasn't the industry within an industry. At all. And then there was the Oscars.

Yeah. And eventually the Golden Gloves. But there were only a couple of awards shows. Yeah. So, and there was no social media. There was no. And I think for actors, the whole idea of the craft of method acting. And at that time, this group of actors, many of whom came up.

up together at the actor's studio was about invisibility. It was about kind of going deep into this character and being unrecognizable. Yeah. And now it's complicated. Now you've got to come on here. And now I've got to come on this show. Yeah, but you know, to say to you, because that's how I was raised, like, I didn't see you. Which was so kind of you to say.

But it wasn't you. You know, it wasn't your energy. You were, even when we were saying hi between takes and stuff, you were in the character. And it was so beautiful. And he's gorgeous and amazing and so funny and such a great friend to her. You know, like it's this full being. Thanks. But it wasn't Matt.

Like, that's great acting, you know? And you just were in that moment, which is so beautiful to watch. And so fun. You want to lose yourself in it, you know? It actually, the reason I say it's the most fun job I've. ever had is because we were telling Kristen, it's rare, I think, to go into hair and make up and come out and don't see yourself. And then you go out on the set and it's on the lot.

This idea, I know we just talked about how back in the day there was, it was, there was, the, glamour wasn't the word. But to me, there was like this really fun element of glamour in terms of like, you really are someone else, you walk out on the lot, the tram goes. buy and you're like, wow, this can still happen. And I think a lot of us that are starting our careers, like are feeling a little pessimistic about whether or not that can happen again. And I would say, like you being such a leader in the industry, like, what are your reflections right now? And like, what are your thoughts about, you know, where we're at? I think that if the people with the money,

either have integrity, which would be awesome. And there are always a few who do. That's true. And who are kind people and who care about art and culture and understand that like if a country loses its culture, it loses the country. And its soul. You know, exactly.

So I am a believer in that. But I think that even if they don't know art, that they want to give the money to people to tell their stories and understand that stories are important, then we're in really good shape. And we have to keep telling the stories. But I remember Billy Wilder won the Lifetime Achievement Award from the Writers Guild.

And guys, Sunset Boulevard, the apartment, some like it hot. I know. A master that has given us the great gifts of our life and film. And everybody was waiting for this, you know, And I'm paraphrasing because I don't know the exact words, but this was the idea. Everybody was waiting for his grand, you know, five-minute speech to teach us about cinema and how to keep it alive. Yeah. And he got up and he said, you own a pool, they own you.

Whoa. And he got off. Whoa. And that is the answer. That should be the answer to the question, which is like when you need a lot of stuff, stuff or to pay for the stuff you got that's just going to cause you a lot of stress. You then got to do the thing. You've got to pay the Piper.

100%. And so that's the challenge is how do we hold space to do what we love, to tell the stories that matter. And I think the way we're going to get to do those as fewer people are able to go to the movies at $38 a ticket or, you know, take their whole family to. to see something they love. Yeah. You know, for smaller independent films,

certainly it's like, you know, you're going to have to make those movies for a much smaller budget than I think in the last five years people have had the privilege of having. This is completely edifying. And this thing you're talking about with Billy Wilder, you've talked about how, like,

people in your parents' generation are just desperate to find, work, book a couple of jobs a year so they can still qualify for their fucking health insurance. It's about like material stuff that can like keep like a home like a roof above people's heads,

get them like the healthcare thing. It's just these basic necessities that are being like slowly taken away from all of us at various levels of the business. And like this is exactly right like what you're saying. Like if the people with the money can redistribute that in a way that

helps it in the most most basic way, then that changes everything. George Clooney is an amazing person and has spoken a lot about this, you know, the question of sort of when you're number one on the call sheet, right? How does that money get redistributed? Because anyone on that set should be paid and have their health care insurance paid and have, you know, money to do a line in a movie, money to be there for the day. And please, God, may we keep background players and extras because so many actors get their health care insurance for people who don't know.

They get coverage by booking even to be a background extra, even though they're a incredible actor or actress who've worked their career that one day or two days on that movie gives them health care coverage for a year. And guys, the crazy thing is we're talking. about the actors who we all know and have loved in films for, or our favorite star of a TV show for 20 years, who's now 80, whose health is declining, and there's no retirement plan, unlike a lot of unions, including if I were a secretary at Omaha Stakes and retired and would have health care coverage for the rest of my life. Actors don't have that luxury, which is nuts. Yeah. And our union should be changing that.

100%. So even with my parents and all of their friends, the people who raised us on movies and television, they have to worry about not being able to go to the dentist or if they go to the hospital, there's not going to be coverage for those bills. It's terrifying. Mess. Yeah.

It's a mess. So, yes, redistributing, figuring out a way to keep the work going, figuring out a way to keep theaters vibrant and streaming alive, which gives, you know, a lot of work to a lot of people. There's a way to do all of it. for the popcorn buckets. Like, do the, give us the popcorn buckets.

It's the best parts. Like, I'll do the theme popcorn. I like that dune popcorn bucket. Love it. It's multi-purpose. Oh, gosh. Anyways, but like, yeah, no, I was actually, it was funny. I was just having a conversation outside, and we were talking about a movie theater that we had in common growing up. And my instinct was to ask, what's it look like? because these movie theaters from when we were younger, I recently went back.

We went to go, I think I saw Wicked for good four times. But we went to go see it at my like, at my like local movie theater with my parents. And I was like, oh no, it's so, it's in such bad shape. I know. Because it's like, and I do think that is something to think about too. It's like people don't want, people barely want to leave their houses. They're not going to leave their houses to go somewhere that's like,

comfortable and quite frankly unsanitary. Yeah. So that's a part of the ecosystem of this too. It's like it's one system. It's one system. Yeah. And we can get really clever. Yeah.

Conversation for a time soon if you guys are up for it, which is like how can we do that? How can we get the energy? Yeah. Back in supporting local movie theaters. Yeah. You know, every town should get to have one art house cinema. Agreed. I mean, my God.

Some of my best. best memories are going by myself down to like Angelica. You know what I mean? And I'll just go three in a row. I pay for each one. I don't hop, hop, hop. But like, you know what I mean? Like I saw like Red Rocket a couple years ago in the theater by myself.

And I was like, thank God we have some place to watch this movie. Well, and that's the thing. I mean, you guys are this extraordinary space for all of us, but also youth culture, to kind of find their voice and their art. and what they want to do in their lives. Like, it's massive. And if you're in Chicago, New York, L.A., San Francisco, you have an Angelica. You have a metrograph.

But what if you're not in those cities growing up? And you're not introduced to so much culture that, yes, one positive in social media you can find like-minded people, but also places and spaces that maybe aren't. aren't your brilliant weird brain? Yes. And how do we find the brilliant weird brains? Of course. Celebrate your pride with the station that's as bold, vibrant, and diverse as you are. IHart Pride Canada.

From dance anthems to pop icons and hits from 2SLGBQ Plus Canadian artists. It's the soundtrack that keeps life loud and proud. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at IHartRadio. What do you go. Come together, celebrate love. Pride. Feel it all year long.

Let's go. With IHeart Pride Canada. What do you do in the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins. And if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul. A place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks.

And we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us. what shapes us and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff, identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore, loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, fake when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out.

If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina 2020-2016 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boen, hi, Matt, hi, hey, Elmo.

Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the I Heart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. In the middle of the night, Sasquia awoke in a haze.

Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. To keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro.

This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays unvulnerable and trusting people. Your creditor might go up and good. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get Your podcasts. Speaking of brilliant weird brains, we'd love to find out more about how yours developed. Ooh. We'll find out more by asking this question.

The central question of our podcast. And we've been floating around it, I think, in terms of where it might have happened for you. But Laura Dern, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? The long answer. You know what? Good. Okay. So in the moment of what the world was telling me, my culture was.

Right. Right. To be 12 and disco is on fire and everybody's got the same posters in their room. And so it's telling me what I'm supposed to be. I had the luxury of being cast in a movie. Maybe no one here has heard of it called Ladies and Gentlemen the Fabulous Staines. And at 12 years old, I went to make a punk rock. movie and my co-stars were two members of the sex pistols, a member of the clash, Feeway Bill

and Vince Wellnick from the Toots. And I went and did this music movie where I had my 13th birthday on that movie. And I was dressed. My hair was like long blonde hair down to here. It was like shaved. I had a Mohawk. It was jet black with a white stripe. You were living it. And I was in it. And I suddenly was this like punk kid for this character. And I was like, oh my God, they have holes in their shirts and they're taking safety pins to just like keep it together. And like giant motorcycle boots and miniskers and there's tears and their fish nets and what's happening. And I started listening to punk music and learning also just like female lead singers and bands. Right.

Yeah. A whole new thing. And I think for me, the culture became, oh, wait, you can spend your life defining culture based on being like exposed to 10 years ahead of where everybody else is. Whoa. And it kept happening. Like that was me at 13 and I went back to eighth grade. Right. With that hair, embarrassed.

They were like, what happened to you? They were like, you know, talking about the new police record. And I was like, oh, my God, I love that record. And I remember this one girl was like, we were just saying we hate that record. I was like, oh, no, no, no, I meant I liked the last record, but that one sucked so bad. You know, just like you're trying to like keep up with everybody else. And it was this defining moment of, oh, no, I get to have my own culture. Yeah.

And it's just other stuff I was exposed to. Nobody even knows about it. But it's my culture. And yeah, I'm going to have like, you know, my poster is going to be Barbara Stanwick and John savage from hair and people don't know who those people on my wall are and that's okay because they're my people and then at 17 I was cast in blue velvet. Yep you sure were and I went oh my god David lynch is my culture and it would it would take decades for people to like really get up decades right so I the good news is my culture was defined by not needing to be part of the

culture that was happening right now. I have chills. I mean, that's that's an amazing answer. Cool. Must have been very difficult to have the noise and not that it's noise, but just to have the weather of the culture run upwind to you or just you're you're kind of against that for a while and you have to that requires the stability for you and your identity and the culture that you loved. One, I think being an actor, starting acting at 11. So I was always put sort of into cultures through this group of people, this circus, right, that was making them.

Yeah, yeah, totally. You're in the culture of Wicked and it's your world and we're not going to catch up for a couple years when you started, right? And now it's ours. We own it. Right. And you're like, okay, that's all we lived and breathed

for this period of time. And now it is pop culture. It's redefined culture. So you have to surrender to that. You're always in another world and other people. But I love that. The bad news, segue is

you don't know what's happening in pop culture which as long as you're not embarrassed you're good but then you have kids and you embarrass them no no I know it's not true we're looking over at Jaya you have no reason to ever be embarrassed I'm sure I'm sure there are things that we have no idea about

don't even but you know like you're in public spaces trying to like be in a moment that excites you and you know you just you don't know who people are or you don't know what's happening usually i when it comes to film i'm pretty current i'm such a music fan so i kind of know what's going on in music but um i have a story for you which is i went into a hotel lobby to meet my friend sam for a tea come on now and he was talking to this lady and And they were deep in conversation.

And I walked up and I wanted to make sure, like, he wasn't finishing a meeting or another thing. So I would go sit somewhere else. And we're at the Bowery. And this... Where it all happens. Where it all happens. And they sort of invite me into their conversation. And I'm introduced.

And I said, oh, God, if you guys need to finish. No, no, no, no. She says, no worry. I know you guys are meeting. Like, I'm just, I just arrived. I'm going to check in. And I said, oh, oh, you're staying. here. And he said, yeah, we just ran into each other, but we're friends. And I said, oh, where'd you

come in from? And she had her suitcase. And she said, oh, Salt Lake. And I said, oh, cool. And I said, how did you guys meet? And she said, oh, my God, Sam was so nice to me. I wrote a book. And he just was so supportive. And I said, that's amazing. He's such an amazing writer. He's such a champion of his friends. Sam Lanski. Are you going to Sam Lanski? He's so great. And so I said, that's so sweet. And she said, yeah, he was really sweet. Like, your first book, you don't know what you're doing. And I said, oh, yeah, you're amazing.

She was, anyway, great to meet you, starts to take. And I said, so, but you don't live in New York? And she said, no, no, no. I live in Salt Lake. And I said, oh, what do you do there? And she said, oh, I'm a housewife in Salt Lake. I'm a multi-hyphenate. And I said, girl, don't put you.

yourself down. You just told me you wrote a book. You're so much more than a housewife. And she said no, no, I'm a real housewife in Salt Lake. I said, you just said that. But you also said you wrote a book. It wasn't clocking to you. You're a housewife. You're a novelist. You're like, you do many things.

And Sam had to go, Laura, she's a real housewife of Salt Lake City. It was that woman was Heather gay. Yes, it was. who sat in that very chair. And guess what? I don't know anything about my god. That's fine.

And I had to call Jai. I was like, this woman, but I guess she's, because I kept defending, like, you know, it's great. I mean, by the way, if you're just a housewife, being a housewife is amazing. I'm like, you're a mother and you cook. She met Laura Dern and she was like, oh,

I'm a housewife from Salt Lake City. Yeah, and meanwhile, she was actually saying her job type. She was, she was shrinking her. yourself in a way. But you were like trying to meet her at her level, but it was a who's on first thing. It's like, no, no, no, we're not totally under. And by the way, it literally took her leaving for Sam to describe to me yet again what it meant. And then I had to call Jaya and say, I was with Heather. And I didn't know anything. And she's like, oh my God, mom. That's like the best one. She's the real husband of Sally said. Her title of this podcast, her episode was the protagonist.

The protagonist. Because she is that. Also, I'm going to tell you how gay gay is right now. We've both dated Sam. Oh, you and I? Yeah. I went on a couple of days you think I haven't dated Sam. Oh, my God. Now it's really a queer community.

It's a queer community. Now you're really icon. Start that indie spirit song back up. You dated Sam 10 years before we did. Yes, yes. That's what it is. Lovely person. He's the most wonderful.

Lovely person. And such a true champion of people. I know. He's great. House Wifu became a novelist. I was just, I've just hosted today's show a couple weeks ago when Kieran and Shipka was there. That's one of his closest friends. That's right, they're buds.

They're bud. He's like, he's truly a fixture. But this is so funny, because I really want to go back to this idea of, like, embarrassment and shame around the culture that you knew and that you're like, there's no embarrassment and not knowing who that person is. It's like the girl being like, we were just talking about the police record and it's like the one

we don't like, it's like, yes, there's always going to be like a misalignment or something, you know, unless you part of the beautiful collective that is like on the same track with something

like it's I kind of like that I'm discovering a lot of films myself very late yes well by the way it's the essence

of this show it's why I was so excited to be here and why Jaya was saying to me you know I I know these are your people

I know this is your world because it isn't defining culture it's asking what is your culture and obviously

making fun and having fun and being in the bliss of like, it keeps being redefined. Like, what's important to us? What's hilarious to us? It's so, that's so freeing. Yeah, but I will say this,

you walking into the Bowery and that interaction with Heather Gay, that's the culture awards. That's Los Cultura Reis, that's cultural awards. That's the tone. That is exactly, that is what we need.

It could be the award. You guys present together. Can I be like, Tallest woman, tiniest impact? I'm like, how do I? What is my award? Tiniest impact is... Because, yeah, your impact would be described as tiny, Laura.

But I was like, what could my award be? We are going to figure it out. That chest got an award. I was like, I'm hungry. People are like, what do you get an Oscar? Do you want another Oscar? I'm like, I want a last couple. Laura Dern, there's a bespoke category and award

on the horizon. and coming your way. Guys, I got the song like that. Like to get a song. You got a song. Come on. That was? Yeah, no.

Only because he just referenced it. No, no, no. The 100%, but that was like a, that was like a moment in culture too, which was like, synchronicity. Like there was this moment where every single person that's in the queer community

was like, wait, you know what we all have in common? We fucking love Laura Dern. And that had to be a thing to receive for you. But it's also like, you as the human being experiencing it and not the topic is like a different thing. It's amazing. So when they all of a sudden, a community turns to you and said, hey, like, what did that kind of feel like? Okay.

That was insane. Surreal. It was insane. I didn't know. I didn't understand what was happening. So I knew in the moment I had to surrender and just start enjoying it and dancing, even though I had no clue why it was happening. Yeah. But back to cultural shifts.

You know, obviously, we're only going to affect change if we're the first ones. We're only going to affect change if it's your voices before other people have caught up to feeling brave enough to say it. So we've all been taught that. Culture catching up to storytelling for the LGBTQ community had to be a thing when someone would go first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my experience and me calling people going, guess what I'm doing? I'm not supposed to talk about it, but I'm doing this thing. I'm doing an episode of TV and they're like, whoa, you know, you just start in Jurassic Park.

Like, why are you doing an episode? And I said, no, my friend is doing something. I want to be part of it and I can't really say what it is. And I had the honor and privilege of being part of Ellen DeGeneres's coming out episode called the puppy episode. Yes. And it was a massive moment. But the moment now reflected on seems like, well, of course, obvious, duh, a million people must have done it before that. And people must have been going crazy and celebrating and it must have been such an emotional moment.

Bomb threats. Losing sponsors and, you know, advertisers and like a crazy week during the filming. Because that was, what you were doing at the time was out. of step with what out of step yeah and then when it happened same for Oprah winfrey who plays her therapist on the episode yeah in a way the assumption is you're going to do this thing and thank god people will wake up love their relatives and their neighbors see them everything will expand culture will catch up and it will be a beautiful celebration was like no major security for a couple of years for any of us involved.

The world went, no, no, no. She lost her show. Like, it was, you know, it took years. It were repercussions that were wrong. Wrong. And yet, now a moment like that happens. And for the people involved in this celebration, I had a couple of people, part of the gay men's choir of Los Angeles,

come up and go, like, I was a kid who didn't even know what was going on. I saw that episode and that meant, and you go, oh, right, that's why you want culture to catch up later. That is culture. Culture's doing it when nobody's caught up. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's just such a gift. Wow. So that actually was the, I think the aha moment of honoring a community, being part of it.

Yeah. And also, let me just say, being part of that moment with Ellen, it wasn't that I was somebody like, supporting an actor or a friend by being part of the show makes me emotional but I was holding her hands as they were shaking you know and she was looking in my eyes saying for the first time I'm gay out loud with people watch and and and the the privilege the luxury of feeling it for someone in a moment was so beautiful literally holding space it was one of the most incredible experiences of my life. And so, you know, watching someone do that for themselves and for their community and for their lives, you know, it's like, amazing. That can't help it be the focal point

for when you do watch this, this chorus of men sing your name. It's funny and it's frivolous and it's beautiful. It's celebratory and people are saying how much they love you, but you're like, you immediately are flashing back to the hands in your life. the hands in your hands. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's, wow. Yeah. Can I ask, like, but among the people involved, like, what was it like sitting with that energy for the longest time between, like, you and Oprah and now it's like, the aftermath of that must have been so disorienting.

Crazy. Crazy. And, you know, crazy on so many levels. Crazy that I know Oprah. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the first thing.

Yeah. that I had bonding experiences. And we, she did her, um, an anniversary show, her talk show and had us come on and we talked about it for the first time. Yes. Like deeply talked about it and hung out that night. And, and I think we were all together till, honestly, to like three in the morning,

sharing the stories. Wow. Of, of the gratitude we experienced, of the, the personal stories shared. But I've just been so lucky to be someone that people, will share their personal stories or their family stories or their struggles with me only by, you know, by being adjacent to this brave moment in someone's life. Well, they intuit correctly that you were a safe space for someone that needed it. And so now that's part of your essence.

And that is a beautiful thing to have be part of your essence. It's incredible to even think that anyone would believe that of me. So I will hopefully always rise to the occasion. to hold space for anybody. But, you know, that's, yeah, that's the dream anyway, for sure. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. I can't believe that was the hotel lobby story, by the way, too.

That's just... And by the way, my daughter was right. She was like, don't tell that on a talk show. Don't tell her, blah, you've got to... I am deading you on Les Colchreisces. I am calling your publicist. You have a story for that. You know what that means, Jaya?

That means that you are in the fandom, a publicist. You are a publicist. And is that how you identify? Reader, Katie, publicist, finalist? You are a finalist, but. Yeah. Yes, for her. Yeah.

You're a publicist in this realm. Yeah. I'm a public, but I'm with her and in public. Yeah, okay, good. Publicist with her and in public, absolutely. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Thank you for sharing that.

Wow. That is so, I mean, just like, yeah. I mean, I just, I just feel like it's not surprising to me at all to like, you really do enter rooms and it feels like everyone is just like, because you are Hollywood royalty, but basically there's so much more, it means so much more than that when you carry all these things and you have all these insights and you have all this experience and you're able to speak to it in such a way and share it in such a way. Why aren't you guys there when I went through a breakup?

We'll be there. Can you imagine during breakups? It's like your champions show up in the room and be like, she's Hollywood royalty. You can't bring up with her. But like, but Reese was saying, especially when you're like 16. Reese was saying that when you guys met, it was on your death scene in Wild. Spoiler. Sorry, y'all.

Spoiled wild. But you guys had just gone through divorces. Yeah. And that sort of like rocketed you guys to like. And immediately, literally within two minutes of meeting on set. Wow. Shared everything with each other. So you guys are real life besties.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. She's the best. She's awesome. I mean, tiniest person, biggest impact.

Let's be clear. I'm already planning. In a real way. In a real way. Real way. Shall we move to I don't think so, honey? We shall. Oh my God already.

I know. He's not crazy. I just said, are people nervous when they, I mean, again, thank God that my publicist, my daughter even told me, hey, mom, they're going to ask this question. You got at least. And I was like, I don't like to prepare for things. She's like, mom, you have to at least know the theme or the. thing that bothers you and then but i ride it out you'll see soon you've got to just go oh yeah all we ever know is the topic are there people who actually write a minute of a rant i'll say

something they tend to feel less impactful when they are being read because you can tell the spirit is not moving the spirit has already moved and so therefore it's on the written page but when the spirit moves in real time yeah no it's church you guys have created church yeah it's people out there in the dark It's making feel it. You really have. This is church. In many ways, this is now a religious podcast. It is.

It is. Please listen to us for nothing. And I beg you to listen to us for nothing. The newest tracks. Let's go. New music. And the next big thing. Always on the new music first.

Your first place to hear it all. Because you're going to like it, love, or want to play it twice. Playing now. I heart new music. Your digital station for brand new drops. fresh minds and tomorrow's bangers. I think we need something new.

Discover I-Hart new music. Always fresh. Always first. Stream now on the free IHart Radio app. What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins. And if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and

everyday folks. deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff, identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore, loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, fake when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out.

If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to, if you can hear me. on the I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yin. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina-2020 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.

Hi, Bob, hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your Listen to two guys five rings on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. you're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband.

To keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays on vulnerable and trusting people. You're a predator, Michael Levin Good. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is I don't think so, honey. This is a 60 second segment where we take turns sort of bellowing. Bellowing.

We're the bellowers. It's a cultural bellow. And I have something. This is going to come out of left field. Okay. But I think we're all experiencing it and it needs to be spoken out. Okay. Okay.

Matt with a collectivist perspective. I'm saying, I don't think so honey, his time starts now. I don't think so honey doors that are both push and pull. Oh my God. This is a danger to society. You're getting smacked.

You are getting smacked. God forbid someone pushes and pulls at the same time. Then we're just slapping on glass. Your wrists are compromised. There has to be decisions. Also, I'm sorry. If you are walking into a store the door should go into the store.

Pulling the door out, I'm just giving an idea about what direction to go. It has to go a direction. That direction has to be clearly labeled. My opinion is if we're going in, the door should go in. People expect something

when they are in a space to have something enter that space. When you were on the street, you do not think, hey, you know what could fly out in front of me right now? A goddamn door. I hate this.

We already, and I'm sorry to make people nervous on the streets, We already have the fact that in the summer, air conditioning units could plummet. Oh, Matthew. And I don't need to be thinking about birds pooping on us, air conditioning is plummeting, and, you know, also doors flying out into the streets. It's push or pull.

It is not push and pull. That's not physics. And that's one minute. Public safety announcement. Yes. That's like, let's change up what a PSA stands for. Public safety announcement. You have just saved lives with that.

I'm just saying we have to, we have really should. Just decide. And I think in all ways, you know what? You know what great leadership is? You know what great direction is? Making decisions. It is not always about making the right decision. It is about making a decision.

And then you deal with those consequences and those the fallout from that decision. But we have to make decisions. Making a door push and pull. Sure, it's a choice. It's not a decision. It's not definitive. It is putting too much in the eyes and the hands and the wrists of the public. And we can't be trusted.

We need guidance. We need leadership on this. Amen. Masterpiece. Thoughts on revolving doors? Let's go around. That's on revolving doors. I'm actually, I'm actually, I don't like revolving doors.

Don't take them. I say the side door, I push in. I say, do two doors. And then it doesn't let me usually. Do I say, revolving. Yeah. I worry, I'm not going to be fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A coat's going to get. A coat's going to get snagged. To say nothing of claustrophobia. Oh. One of the most famous phobias, and yet. And yet? Can I ask why do we do evolving doors? Clostra.

She is now. I'm naming my daughter that. Yeah. This is my daughter, Clostrophobia Rogers. I'm changing my daughter's name right now. Listen, are you comfortable with your new name, Clostra? Clostra. But do you know, I don't know why I'm turning to you to answer this question.

Why do we have revolving doors? I think it's to regulate the influx and a sort of, but I'm just making this up. Or sort of the, what's the word? It starts with an E. Burn. Burn. What's the word burn? Anyway.

Anyway, I'm not sure why. I think you might be in the ballpark. Something. Egress, egress is what I meant. Egress and regulation. Oh, he's got all the words. No, no, no. You believe English is his third language?

Did you know that? When you listen to the speech at the Governor's Awards, he was speaking in his third language. Everybody calm down. I refuse to calm down. You need to calm down. Before we go into Bowens, I don't think. So, honey, what was the experience of starring in bejeweled the music video with Taylor Swift?

Amazing. Thought you wouldn't ask. I actually, it was in, it was in like the secretaries went through the file cabinets of my mind and found that file. Amazing. And they said, Matt, Matt, Matt. And I just needed to know if it was. You heard egress and it just like broke open your brain. Because I thought that's a very swift-in word.

Oh, sure. She's used egress yet. She probably has. It has to be in a song. It's probably on folklore. It has to be on folklore. My favorite record. It's so good.

So good. It is my favorite record of hers. It's absolutely brilliant. And the thing that I always say about folklore is it's there for you when you need it. It is. In every circumstance. Yeah. Truly.

Truly. How about that the world worships her and I had to just hate on her? I like there was even a kick. I like there were certain things. I'm sure that weren't used because we were playing. We knew it was a good faith. And she's an amazing director, by the way. An amazing director.

Because she makes decisions. Makes decisions. decisions would have fixed that for us, indoor, outdoor. Absolutely. She'd be like, oh no, I know. By the way, she could say it today and it would change forever.

It would be like, it would be like when she like spoke up for like, um. For Spotify. For Spotify. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or against whatever it was. Yeah. She did the right thing.

She did the right thing. She went in when you're supposed to go in. She knows you push in a door. Yes. I know that about Taylor. But yeah, no. I also like you were the star of a lot of B-roll during the Erez tour, the influx of people coming in.

That was an amazing experience. We actually went to the first show. Oh, you did? We were in Phoenix. It was incredible. And it just, it was wild. It wasn't a thing yet. You know?

Oh, wow. Yes, you watched the ERIS tour begin. Begin. Yeah. And like breaking it down after and hearing the ins and outs of notes and just like, and her genius brain. Which you can now see in the documentary is so cool. Oh my God. It's a really, it was a good watch.

Yeah, yeah. But for now we're focusing on one minute, specifically Bowen Yang's one minute. Because this is Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey. Now, do you have a topic ready in mind? I do. It's, it'll get there. Everybody walk with me on this.

Let's all walk with Bowen. Okay. This is Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. What happened to underwater basket weaving? It's like a punchline of like.

oh, it's a college class that no one in their right mind would take. Make it a real thing. I know it's a real thing. Use kelp to make a little wicker, a little lattice. I know it's a real thing, but let's actually popularize it

instead of making it a punchline. Like, the first time I heard the words underwater basket weaving, I was like 14 years old, talking to college counselors, but I was like, but wait, do you guys offer that? Because I would gladly take...

I regret being an NYU alone. that they did not offer that. Even though we had a great swimming team, I think we had a swimming team. We had the facilities to have an underwater basket weaving course, and it was never offered to us in earnest. I think let's just really bring the whimsy back to our campuses across this country. Five seconds.

Let's just make it fun. College just sounds so stressful now. Look, they're not even writing papers anymore. Let them do it. Let them weave. And that's one minute. Let them weave. Let them weave.

Sometimes the dichotomy between us just shakes me. Because I just said doors should push in and Bowen used the word lattice in reference to underwater basket weaving. Two syllable word. Which I didn't know. Ladis work with kelp. Ladis work with kelp. By the way. But first of all, you're so right.

It's too stressful. Yes. So right. And I say swim teams across the country should be required to have underwater basket weaving for like they're, they're breaking. time. Yes. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.

It's too stressful. It's too stressful. It is a meditative experience. Thank you for agreeing with us emphatically on this. I'm in. I'm signing Jaya up. Oh. You hear that?

NYU doesn't even know they offer that, but they do now. They do now. She's being your publicist. Okay? She's making your decisions. Your dean. Mom, you called the school and told them they had to offer. Now I'm the captain of the basket weaving club for underwater.

They were like your mother said we had to have it. You have to do it. Not bad. Honestly, I think we both made salient points, and now we turn to our guest. Oh, okay. Who's going to tear this up. Oh, my God. Guys.

You're going to do amazing. Are you ready? I am. Okay, this is. And you'll say 30 seconds and all that. We're going to be good. This is Laura Derns. I don't think so, honey.

And her time starts now. I don't think so, honey, shared public spaces are not just for you. A crosswalk means we. We're waiting. We're being generous. Our cars are stopped. Yeah. Take your time.

Yeah. But get across the street. Of course. You know what I'm saying? You've already got your Starbucks. This isn't your Abbey Road, Jessica. Green means go. Green means go.

Move. Move. People who are like, you know, walking and they go, 30 seconds. Thank you. And they kind of move quickly. And then there are people who are like, they drop something. Yeah.

They go sort of back a little. Oh, no. This is disgusting. Can't stand it. How about, by the way, in the airport... Fifteen seconds. Happened. Here we go.

Clipping nails. No. As the nail is like flying into your face, someone clipping, clipping their toenails. This is David Lynch. In the airport. How about inside a movie theater watching Wolves of Wall Street? Margot Robbie comes on the screen.

The guy goes, she looks just like Sarah. My best friend Sarah? Margo Robbie looks like Sarah. You know what? you. I'm like, guys, we're in a movie theater. And that's one minute. We don't want to hear about Sarah. We want to watch Margot Robbie.

This is the beginning of her career. Exactly. We're watching the birth of a movie star. Public goods are meant to be shared in, yes. Exactly. Green means go. Green means go. As Taylor Swift once said, welcome to New York.

It's been waiting for you, but I'm not waiting for you to cross the street. It's waiting for you to move that. Our pace. Yeah. This isn't your Abby Road, Jessica. We're not in Kansas anymore. Call back. Oh, we can.

Oh, this is. We can forget. It was famously once said, we're not in Kansas anymore. So you actually do have to lift those knees. You have to. You got a left. Yeah. So for me, it's kind of like when people are loud on the phone in a space where there's like four other people.

Oh, my God. I was going to talk about that. And see. Restaurant. Like a romantic night. Yeah. Right. right next to you.

And they're mad. Right. On the phone. Being fired. I get it. Being fired. But like it's their anniversary. Step out to be fired.

Step out to be fired. It's actually real culture number 100. Step out to be fired. Get some fresh air. But guess what? If you're going to have to do that, the door should go out. Yeah. You don't want to be fired.

Have to leave so upset. And then the door keeps coming in. There's the door. You're like, I'm trying to get out to be fired. and I can't get out. That's a courtesy for the rest of it. It's a courtesy. And you're crying and you're like have lost your gig.

I want to say also the fact that we got a little dose of your characteristic anger right there. The rage was the rage came. That was a treat and a half. Can I just tell you you nailed it? You came in here. I'm like, do people get nervous? Do people get nervous? The elbow started going.

I was like, you're going to kill this. And you did. But because it genuinely pisses me off. Yes. And there you go. Tony is the whole point. And now you're on the other side of it. You found the truth.

Be in your truth. Be in your truth. You guys gift me that. And you give us with so much. And including your time today. And this has been the coolest. Getting to know you is awesome. And I remember I showed up on Palm Royale and yes, was in all the makeup and everything.

And then you came and you weren't acting that day. You were just there as a producer. and you came and you were, I could hear you giving, like, feedback off camera. And I just thought it was so cool. You're so multifaceted. You're so good at so many different things that you do that people don't even think about that you're doing. Aw. Because the, it's, your reputation proceeds and it is dead ass.

Thank you. Guess what? You know what I'm going to do next time I'm here? What? I'm going to bring you a woven basket. That you made underwater? Oh, you know it. A lattice kelp.

Oh, yes. Yes. It's going to be beautiful. I mean, Jaya will have made it in her class. Of course. I'll take credit. You'll take credit for it. Of course.

That's what mothers do. Good mother. This is Hollywood. This is Hollywood after all. Look what I mean for you. We'll see you with the culture awards. With the woven basket. Guys.

Yeah. You're going to have another huge trophy to put in your mud room. That's the truth. That is the truth. And this one will be too heavy to break. Was your... Museum Award glass. It was gold.

Oh, it was gold. You know what they would give the people the years before us? A tiny silver Oscar statue. And then what they gave to us in our class, I'm not, I'm not noting it. I'm just pointing this out. Like a solid gold, like ice cream cone, which is sitting beautifully on my bookshelf. But I did look at the chrome Oscar, this chrome silver Oscar that Paul Meskel gets, and I'm like, that's cool. But the gold is better

The gold is better Well the gold is better Because that's a real Oscar We refer to his as a vibes Oscar It's a vibes Oscar Yeah And it's like

You got the silver So far in your career We're gonna give you this thing It's not an Oscar But we are the Academy Should the Oscars change it To the Olympic formula Where you get a bronze

A silver and a gold Honestly though Not bad I don't think it's Well because then it's like Everyone's a winner But you got the bronze I do think about

So we were at the Oscars last year and best actress happened. I thought you were going to say, and we won best actors. I was so excited. I was so excited. I know. I'm like,

I don't remember that, and that's the greatest moment in cultural history, which by the way, we're not stopping until the two of you win best actress for the same performance.

Let's go. That's what we know. We really come along with you. You guys are going to do this. We're going to do it. We were there. I'm going to produce it. I'm coming up with it.

And Mikey Madison won. And we were all like, oh my God, she won. But that means to me lost? Oh, no. I know. And I was like, once you're, when you're in the room and you're kind of like feeling that happened, you're like, oh, everyone should win. Why are we doing this?

I know. And what face should I make? Because I am in grief and joy and everybody's. You've had to do faces for all different variations of it. I've loved seeing people who like go with the joke. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. David Lynch did that at one year. When it happened. I think he did. Which I thought was so good. Well, thank you so much again. Thanks, you guys. Oh my God, I've had the time of my life.

We've had a blast and a half. This spanned all conversational tones in the best way. Thank you. We end every episode with the song. With these tones. Best believe we'll still be drool. When I walk in the room, I can still make the whole place shimmer. To see our guest shimmer, see one of her thousands of films out right now,

including is this thing on? and watch our kick Taylor Swift and the bejeweled video outtakes. Yeah. Stream pump royale! Woo! Las Culturit is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players

and IHeart Radio podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Executive produced by Anna Hosnii and produced by Becker Ramos. Edited and mixed by Doug Bain. And our music is by Henry Kversky. I'm Bowen Yang.

And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys' Five Rings podcast and the lead-up to the Lawn Cortina, 2026 Winter Olympic Games. We've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bob, hi, Matt. Hey, Mel.

Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys,

Five Rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, If You Can Hear Me is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people, some have answers. Most are still figuring it out.

And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on my IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by Black people? because of what happened in Alabama. This Black History Month, the podcast, Selective Ignorance with Mandy B, unpackes Black History and Culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations

that shake the status quo. The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe.

That's your home. That's your husband. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.