Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "The Ol' Bait And Suck" (w/ Rose Dommu)

Episode Date: March 3, 2021

You know how a witch will often cackle? Well, similarly, Las Culturistas and guest Rose Dommu (icon) absolutely DO THAT through this episode of LC wherein witchcraft in media, WandaVision (there are spoilers throughout this ep for the season so far, y'all! So skip 14:14 to 20:15 if you're not caught up!), favorite Aronofsky films and Evan Rachel Wood (who Rose says is "the woman who taught me how to huff") are explored in depth. Also, Rose's love of Buffy and her take on the Joss Whedon of it all, how fan fiction taught us how to write, Dakota Johnson stanhood, Practical Magic, and a look back at ARTPOP. What do we think of Gaga as an Oreo now? Regardless of your answer, you all will be amazing warriors. <3 Follow @rosedommu, who is one of the best guests we've ever had. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes.

Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas ding dong Las Culturistas calling already Bowen is killing me

he's killing me no no you are the one who is killing me you are there was drama

there was drama at the beginning of the recording okay and trust and believe there will be and I don't think

so honey to reckon with what just happened later in the episode to be continued on that one there all i can say is i must be in los angeles and the reverberations of the golden globes must be in the air because it's drama in the apartment when i couldn't get my zoom to work and i must be in new

york where we had the rainbow room which was by far the hotter room between the two coasts okay we can actually get into it right now because Amy Poehler was looking absolutely stunning. Oh. And Tina is glamour. Sold her soul years ago. Who sold their soul? You don't go from writer's room SNL donut troll. No, no, no.

Let's not do that. To glamazon. Let's not do thatazon without some Agatha all along. There was some selling of the soul. No, no, no. Honey, don't do this. I'm saying that, this is what I'm saying. Beverly Hills Hotel

had some glamour. Why are you trashing Tina? I didn't trash. I didn't trash. I said there was a deal with the devil. Yeah, that's exactly what Hollywood is all about. Deals with the devil. No, honey. You think Amy Poehler didn't make a deal with the devil. Yeah, that's exactly what Hollywood is all about, deals with the devil. No, honey. You think Amy Poehler didn't make a deal with the devil? You made it years ago.

Honey, you made it before you even left the womb, bitch. God damn right. God damn right I made a deal with the devil because I knew exactly what industry I was getting into and I knew it from birth. So I made my deal with the devil long ago. You think I just look like this? We're on two separate tracks

because I thought you were going to bring up how that whole broadcast was a train wreck, which it was. I did not think it was a train wreck and that's you reading Tina and Amy. I'm not reading. That is not a read on Tina and Amy. That is a read on the host.

That means they're in charge of the broadcast. Don't you know? Don't you know anything? They're calling cuts. They were the ones who wanted that. Those crazy ass bumpers where that you had all nominees in the same zoom

being like hi oh my god made those calls they were calling the cuts as you say what what do you have to say about amy keep going and then we'll talk about i'm just saying she looked incredible and amy didn't make a deal with the devil is that what you're saying they both made deals with the devil i'm just saying amy's it feels was a little bit. That's all. I don't know. I don't know about any of this. You stupid whore. All I was commenting on is the fact that we know that Tina is sort of glamour. Like she's sort of been glamour. You know what I mean?

And Amy's been a beautiful blonde woman her whole career. Like, what are you trying to say? I'm just saying. There's not been this transformation. I don't. I'm just saying it became apparent last night that Amy is glamour in a way that walloped me. I was like, oh my God, Amy is glamour tonight. I wasn't surprised.

I'm not surprised ever to see Tina arrive and be glamour because I feel Tina is glamour. Yes, but both of these people have had people they pay or who pick out clothes for them as well. You understand? Yeah, but you know who else gets clothes picked out for her? Margot Robbie. And that didn't stop her showing up in the fucking whatever that was last night. Margot Robbie was there? And our guest just rolled her fucking eyes because she knows it's true.

Margot Robbie was there? Margot was there? That's the biggest drag of them all. Margot Robbie was there? He said. For biggest drag of them all margot robbie was there he said for what what did she present a major award at the hollywood foreign press association's golden globe awards okay i don't know about any of it she looked like she came for i think rose even said the word reformation oh reformation the word reformation jumped out and she's and she's and she's covering her mouth.

Demurely. But we don't know. She doesn't exist yet. Okay? Because she hasn't been introduced. She doesn't exist yet. Okay. I haven't checked in with you, I think, since last week. I have not checked in with you in a while.

I've missed you very dearly. Oh, but we did an IG Live together. It was very fun. We touched base. We touched base. And that was a really fun time. It was the highlight of the week. And I did reveal to you that I'm depressed. And that was a really fun time. It was the highlight of the week. And I revealed to you that I'm depressed.

But that's okay. You know, that is okay. Yes. Oh, yes. And thank you for saying it. Now you can take a little break. If I am the new face of depression, I mean, sign me up. Can I say something to you?

Yeah. You don't look depressed. That is okay. Good, good. Very good. I don't look depressed that is okay good good very good i don't know what now that might be controversial because does depression have a look no i was gonna ask you but i what about me doesn't make me look depressed skin's popping off yeah your hair is a beautiful curl you look like can i say something yeah you look like you've had sex I have not had sex you have I have not had sex you had a dick up there

this no I have not this is what is this crazy energy you are bringing in I just just because I'm not reticent and I'm willing to sort of just go with the flow and I'm not a caged bird like you you're caged.

You're caged. Let's just say this. We're not going to talk about it. I just watched a film called I Care A Lot and I'm all fired up. All I will say about I Care A Lot, I have not seen it. I hear things about it.

I thought Rosamund Pike's speech was bonkers wild and i was like what the fuck she was like thank you to the broken american economy or whatever legal system and i was just like what is what is this this woman clear and then i thought back like gone girl maybe that was great casting because i was like there's there's there's there's something amiss there with that one. Well, more on this next week.

More on this next week. That's what we call a teaser to be continued, to be sure. I'll have seen it by then. What else did I want to say? Oh, just finished Nomadland today. Really loved it. Did you watch it? That's on my list. You know what I'm going

to watch tonight is the United States vs. Billie Holiday because of Andra Day's surprise Big W last night. Yeah, that was the Big W. Oh, we did reveal to people on the live the moment which I thought would be only

shared between you and I for the rest of our lives, but the moment of you and I meeting Mulan at Epcot in the China P you and I meeting Mulan at Epcot in the China Pavilion and her saying to us, Would you like me to say it? I would like you to say it. Okay. This is what she said to us. And this is not

made up. A lot of people, i.e. Bowen, are saying this is made up. She didn't quote-unquote say it like that. I don't think she said this. But this is what she did. Dave,ave bowen and myself were given the opportunity to take a photo with mulan and take a photo with her at the reflections of china pavilion yes we went in met her lovely girl she simply asked she asked us to take a combat position with her for the photograph the photograph we've been talking about.

Which, very suspiciously, we can't find. I have my thoughts on why. It's on your phone. It's not on mine. Anyway, moving on from that conversation, because it will get too heated. And here's what happened. We took the photo. She turned to us and said the following.

You will be amazing, Warriors. You will be amazing warriors. You will be amazing warriors. That is so not what she said. Yes, she did! I'm gonna lose it! You are gaslighting me! You are gaslighting!

Thank God I know the word for it now! We were so stoned out of our minds. So that's when Sense Memory really hits, Beau. Oh my God. I don't know about any of this. You're a fool.

Okay, you know what? Let's bring our warrior in. And she is a warrior. Absolutely. She is a warrior for the culture. This is someone whose opinion, this is not putting, you know, this is not sort of deifying her too much, but this is someone whose opinion I always, always want. I always

want her take on something. I'm always saying this whenever I read the opinion I'm saying. Yes, yes, yes. I think she is truly a vital, vital, vital presence for the culture. I have a deep respect

for anyone who would sort of look into the eyes of Timothee Chalamet and say, how does it feel to be king of the twinks? You don't understand. You think you're going to be brave enough to do it, but then you get into the position of doing it. No, you would never do it.

Very few would. Very few. She is one of the few. Uh-huh. And asked him if he, or I think somehow Moonstruck came up and we got out of Timothee Chalamet that he loves Moonstruck.

Of his own accord. He said Moonstruck. Of his own accord. Oh my God. Amazing. I don't know if I trust him on that one. I think he heard the word shared and was like,

say a shared movie, say a shared movie. No, no, no. Moonstruck. I think that's kind of what happened. I don't know. But I him on that one I think he heard the word share and was like say a share movie Moonstruck I think that's kind of what happened but I'm happy that people enjoyed it I believe that he enjoys it iconic interviews with Salma Hayek with the cast of Wine Country amazing interviews

well we'll ask her her opinion she used to be a senior staff writer at Out Magazine. Now she works in editorial at Netflix. We are so excited to have her. Oh, everyone, please welcome Rose W! Hi, it's so nice to be here. Hopefully this finally gets me verified on Instagram. Come on.

What the hell is the deal with that? Transphobia, I would assume. Yes, absolutely. Could only be. Because, like, I don't understand. I think Instagram is starting to turn into Twitter where it's like the verification criteria are all over the fucking place.

And I don't know it's like Rose Damu is you need to give her that blue check it's telling to me that you aspire to blue check hood thank you I do think it is toxic that it's something that I aspire to I'm not calling it out

but aren't you? but no I would say it's an iconic first line on the podcast thank you I hope this gets me verified on instagram i think to me that's that you are without peer as far as first lines go i mean it's the reason i'm here you know what better reason i'm here and i do want to talk about the snl to being hot pipeline yes okay because the because the reason I'm finally here today

is because I DM'd Bowen and told him he looked hot in a photo. What photo? Your Christian Cowan photo. Oh, yes. All of a sudden, he gets on SNL, he's in Christian Cowan shit.

You know what I mean? That's what I'm saying. I replied and said, you look hot, and all of a sudden, I'm being invited to record in Lost Culture Research. That is not...

Yeah, it's so interesting. That's not the... That's a correlation. It's not causation or whatever it is. I don't know about this. Rose. And now you're going to try to pivot, but you can't deny there is an SNL to being hot pipeline. We've seen it happen.

Kristen Wiig, all of a sudden, she probably was always stunning, but now she's publicly stunning. Do you know stunning, but now she's like publicly stunning. Do you know what I'm saying? You are publicly stunning. All I'm saying is that Bowen is hot. That's very nice. We can deal with that here. We can't deal with everyone else here, but we can deal

with Bowen being hot here in this episode. I just want Rose to say once and for all, did Tina and Amy sell their souls? As the devil, I can't speak on business affairs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's a conflict of interest. And honestly, the devil has so much shit going on right now. I'm just texting my lawyer real quick. Okay, okay, okay. The devil's lawyer. Can I talk about contracts? No, well, listen, the devil's all up in it lately because you'll notice that there's lots of witchcraft happening on WandaVision.

And I am actually most thrilled you are here because of course, yes, and we've had months of sort of witchcraft like looming in the background because Taylor Swift is sort of of she's peeling back the layers that are sort of revealing that all along if you will she's been kind of a witch and now she's got like i think was it probably was you who said fucking um cardigan agatha all along remix which i thought was a great tie-in because the devil is very present in a lot of media happening because witchcraft is present and a lot of people want to sort of separate witchcraft from the devil but they're actually

no they're intimately intertwined yeah we are the granddaughters of the witches you didn't burn you should have should have took care of us in the beginning i'm i'm really happy that witchcraft is back in the cultural zeitgeist because I definitely identify as a witch and witchcraft was very formative to my cultural consciousness and remains so to this day. And so I'm really excited to see it in, you know, WandaVision. Yes. We have a lot of like witchy Lilith Fair adjacent musicians right now. I've been getting into Phoebe Bridgers lately, like fucking everyone. And I think that's one of the things that I appreciate the most about

WandaVision is that like the MCU has always been kind of unwilling to be fully magical. And now we're like, oh yeah, they're just fucking witches, bitch. Hi, just jumping in here to say that if you do not want spoilers for WandaVision, if you're not caught up, you can go ahead and skip to 2015. And then from there on out, there's really not that much revealed. All right, just wanted to check in before we absolutely spoiled WandaVision, which is starting now.

Yeah. So there's been some response to, I guess, after the reveal of Catherine Han being a witch, and then they did, spoiler alert, in episode eight, they sort of revealed Catherine Han's witchy origin story. Salem, Massachusetts. Honey, right on the head. What a unique origin story. Salem, Massachusetts. Honey, rice in the head. What a unique origin story for a witch. Salem, Massachusetts 1693,

one year after the witch trials. So you could actually... Giles Corey is shaking underneath all those rocks. Giles Corey, right off screen, Giles Corey was actually shook. Shaking. Yeah, he was shaking, Queen. screen, Giles Corey was actually shook. Yeah, he was shaking, queen.

Ms. Giles was inconsolable, uncontrollable. But wait, I did laugh when it said Salem Mass 1693. I was like, oh, not only is it witches. I let out what can only be described as a witchy cackle. Witchy cackle in that font, in that typeface that's like, witchy what is this what is this response i wish it was in comic sans i just want comic sans salem massachusetts 1693 but this is my thing though and this is this is what i this is sort of my response to what i feel is sort of a criticism all of a sudden of katherine hahn on this last episode that she's sort of, a few people I know are talking about like, oh, well, I didn't really get like a good villain from her.

Like I was feeling like it didn't feel like she was like in her bones in the way that she was in the other episode. I'm like, girl, no, she was giving you like kooky witch. Like I think it's her job to not only be like sort of like you know an antagonist that tracks with what she's been doing but also to be like a little bit of a kooky witch because it's a kooky show that's sorry but for kids you know what i mean oh you're talking about the disney you're talking about the disney plus of it all duh and it's also based on a comic book very yeah very true that, like, she's obviously

serving Halloween Town 2 Calabar's Revenge realness. Yes! But Matt, you had brought up how it was, it did not track with the past episodes that she was asking about like, Wanda's deal when she was, like,

being very aware of this stuff. But now everyone's saying that like she's been trapped in the hex. Like she happened to be there and she's another person who has these powers and now she's like trying to figure it out. This is my understanding. And then Rose, I do sort of think of you as like-

An authority? An authority on this. So just tell me, I'm going to tell you my understanding. You tell me if it tracks with your understanding. My understanding is after watching the episode a second time not high as shit and not at midnight which rose told me is an insane thing for me to do absolutely absolutely nuts i like i personally like the anticipation i like waiting all day for it you like to edge i don't see like i'm the kind of person that's like if i know i'm

having someone over to have sex i've already jacked off four times that day because i was too excited you know what i mean like it's gotten me in trouble before and so with wandavision it's like i'm not gonna wait till 6 p.m on friday it's just not gonna happen so for me this is my understanding of it so when i watched it sober i understood basically, she was able to sense all this magic happening, Agatha Harkness. She arrived at the hex where she was able to enter the hex no problem and sort of participated in Wanda's alternate reality that she had created to sort of figure out what her deal was all along she was sort of putting things in wanda's way that were like the episode's conflicts in order to trip her up and sort of get her to reveal how she did this who she really was yes so so my prior concern that if it was agatha all along why did she have so many questions is now quelled because i understand that it was sort of her all along

in that things that were bubbling up and causing problems for wanda were agatha all along but the reality was wanda's creation does that make sense yeah that tracks for me uh from what from my understanding and and listen like i i am not like I'm like I have the Wikipedia knowledge of this the same as everyone does like I love X-Men I love the MCU but like I'm not a deep comics girl but from my understanding it was like you know

Agatha was off doing her witchy scenario somewhere and you know this huge magic moment happened and she was very like what was that? It was Wendy Williams? She did a Wendy.

It was Wendy. And you know sort of what's more of a spooky face in the crowd of your audience than an alternate reality being created by some girl. Exactly. So she was like something's happening over there gotta get there immediately see what's going on.'s happening over there. Gotta get there immediately.

See what's going on. That hoe over there. And also I think it's very telling that her intro scene was like about her A, like wanting knowledge that was, you know, like, not hers. And also sucking the literal

powers out of other people. So she was like, oh, there's this huge, you know, source of mystical whatever shenanigans happening over here. Let's go see about that. And then once she realized what was going on, she was like, okay, I'm going to play the long con. Yes. And get deeper and deeper and figure out what the real true tea is

and then manipulate it to my benefit. Oh. And now she's gonna have to suck on that one. She might have to suck the powers of... You think she's gonna try to suck Wanda now? I think she's trying to bait Wanda into a battle so that she can

absorb. The old bait and suck! Oh my god, title of ep. The old bait and suck. The old bait and suck! Oh my god, title of that. The old bait and suck. The old bait and suck. Wait, is this week the finale? I'm hearing multiple. It's the last one. Nine? It's nine episodes? I'm so upset.

I don't know about that number. For Salt Lake to end, and then this to now end, feels just cruel. Feels like a prank. Cruel, homophobic. Salt salt lake what are your thoughts i you know i was just as excited as everyone when it started i thought it had such a great opening first couple of episodes and then it it low-key fell off for me at what point around episode six seven i just was not interested i wasn't connecting with any of them.

And it just like wasn't working for me. I can figure out pretty quickly if a Housewives City is for me. And this just like wasn't it. I find that very interesting because I feel like I don't know if I like a Housewives City or not until like I'm in the third season of watching it. And so like what what makes it what like what made it what makes it good or bad to you do you do you know you're there was no um clear protagonist for me or no clear fun antagonist for me got it yes yeah i think i believe that you need to check back in because Because I always think, because I get it,

because at the point where you're saying you fell off, I was also less than enthused. And then there was one episode that came back when they went on a trip, which you always got to let the girls go on a trip before you decide to bail. And I think you got to at least get to a reunion to see how it goes. They went to vegas shit went down yeah to me it was peak housewives and then there was i would say two and a half out of the three reunion episodes were like peak housewives reunions i think i mean i might just go watch

the reunions because that's good they give you the clip packages. So you basically get to see the entire season, like just the good parts of it. Right. Right. So maybe I'll do that. Well, I think the reunion actually went easy on Jen,

who was the big antagonist of the, of the Vegas trip. And so I would say, yes, I agree. Like usually if I'm ever trying to catch up on a Housewives, I'll just watch the reunions. But I think with this particular one,

you got to watch that second episode of the Vegas trip and then go to the reunions. And it's not, look, it's not too much time. That's true. I was kind of hoping that if Law and Division had been longer

they would eventually have gotten to a Housewives episode you know like I want to see like every TV format I mean Catherine Han as a Housewives antagonist would have been can you imagine Catherine Han in like a Rena wig

I absolutely can I can see it vividly in my head right now. Me too. I'm bummed that we won't get that. Maybe. I mean, you know, they're saying, I think Kevin Feige, who's like the Marvel boss. The queen. He's the final boss.

The final boss. The final boss of Marvel. Yeah. He said like, I think he said in an interview it could continue, even though I think this whole show exists as a way to set up the next

Doctor Strange, which I have not seen the first Doctor Strange movie. Me neither can't. Now, let's just take a quick straw poll here. Can we get it up for Benedict Comch? Not personally. But that's okay.

I trust that people, I trust that he's an attractive person to people. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, you have to respect, a lot of people are saying that they're attracted. I kind of saw it for him back in the Sherlock days. Yes. First season of Sherlock, which is the only season I've seen, I was like, oh yeah, good for him back in the Sherlock days. Yes. First season of Sherlock, which is the only season I've seen, I was like, oh, yeah, good

for him. But now that he's just sort of phenomenal in that way, well, yeah, it's like Benedict Cumberbatch is a phenomenon in terms of people being attracted to him. I'm like, that doesn't fully work

or make sense to me, but I respect it. The Doctor Strange drag definitely works against him. Oh, interesting. My problem with, I guess, the MCU is, like, when they show up in their costumes, I'm like, no. Come on. That's the whole thing.

She is wearing that. I was like, come on. But I also feel like that's kind of what's been whole thing. She is wearing that. I was like, come on. But I also feel like that's kind of what's been the problem. I think that's what's been the problem with Wanda is she's always like showing up to the fight in a fucking like. Hoodie. Seal boost. Or a hoodie. I mean, in Age of Ultron, she's wearing like literally like a Forever 21 mini dress and like a hot topic jacket

and now we might finally get like an iconic superhero costume yeah scarlet witch's look is is is pretty top-notch it is the look it is the look and we got a little preview of it when she sort of looked into the mind stone and saw her future incarnation yes Yes. And she did look stunned. That was sickening. That was a great moment. That was sickening. Oh my God, Beau. You're so hot. Fuck.

Shit. I want to ask you both something. I've asked this a million, in a million different ways to people. This is not a new thing. I, I just find that it like

gets more and more overwhelming like how are you but either of you like consuming things now because i feel like there's i i can't keep up like today i was just i just had the random thought i was doing the dishes or whatever and i was like oh i guess i gotta watch it's a sin like i'm like i guess like there's just like other to-dos that like work their way into like into my everyday tasks now that I'm like, I should do that. I should watch that thing. Which at a certain point, WandaVision became for me. I would go into work on Fridays and have a lot of downtime and be like, I guess I'll watch WandaVision because it's a thing to get off my to-do list.

Am I alone in that? I think, yeah, you're, you're, you're asking like, how do you, how do you put on your item list what to consume? Like what, what cues you? Or how are you, how are you working into your days? Is that, is that a fair question? Yeah. I mean, I, I think my, well, first of all like the impetus for me to watch things is not like

it's more like what part of the cultural conversation do I want to be on and also like what am I actually enthusiastic about watching but also these days at the end of the day I just need to like check out and usually watch something

pretty mindless that's why I'm currently working my way back through old seasons of top model like i saw you're on season four so you're in season four season four yeah so like so iconic one of the craziest seasons of reality tv in history i, everything happens that season. It's the girl fainting. It's Be Quiet Tiffany. The blackface photo shoot challenge. It's the it really

has everything. Yeah. The girl fainting was the episode before Be Quiet Tiffany. I think that was the episode before Be Quiet Tiffany Tiffany. I think that was the episode before Be Quiet, Tiffany. I think there's maybe like two in between them. Like one or two in between them. Got it, got it.

But yeah, you're right. Like that girl fainting and Tyra, they cut to Tyra just standing there looking shocked and horrified, but not moving. Yeah, she doesn't do anything. She doesn't do anything. Well, she was primarily worried about ruining the take.

She was like, did we get that? We got that shit right? Because she fell. She was very concerned. But again, every gif from Top Model comes from that season.

Is from season four. Yeah. Is that, but make it fashion or no? Is it that season? No. That's going to be from something earlier or later. It doesn't matter.

I think it's, I, it might be later. I'm on cycle seven now. Yeah. And the reason you can, the reason we can just know you were on four and now you're on seven is because they go by like that.

Talk about mindless. You don't need a brain to watch it. No. It's like 90 Day for me. And you can like, you can check out so much. Hey, you know, I actually tried watching 90 Day Fiance

because of this podcast. I watched an entire season of it. Oh my gosh. And what are your thoughts? I mean, I understand that there's a need for breaks sometimes. It wasn't for me. Okay, that's fine.

I like, you know, I've enjoyed the, that's fine. I like, you know, I've enjoyed the experience of watching it. I watched, I think, season two because that's what a Vulture article told me to start with. And I watched the whole thing.

I like had a good time, but ultimately I was like, I think I'm good. I respect that. And you know, the reason I watched it was because Bowen threatened me with the dissolution of our friendship if I did not. I did not. I think that's fair.

Roll the tape. I'm going to Lisa Barlow. Roll the tape. That's what happened. So, basically, I watched it. And what turned me off was the 90-minute episodes of it all. They were too long. Well, then stop watching Drag Race then, honey.

Yeah, but mama. So wait, do you feel that Drag Race episodes are too long? Well, it's they're too long and then Untucked right after it. I usually can't. Well, because I've been doing Friday Night Drag Race

in Tawanda Vision. And so by the end of the episode of drag race i'm like oh my god i get to wandavision yeah yeah i'll watch untucked when i get to it i feel like that's crazy because the thing is you could have watched wandavision the night before at mid absolute night it's crazy you're absolutely with a friend and it's like the one social thing i do all week i see i see it's friday night it's friday night social thing I do all week. I see, I see, I see. It's Friday night. It's Friday night in the pandemic and we're watching Drag Race and WandaVision. It's TGIF, honey.

TGIF. Wait, actually, that's a rule of culture. It's rule of culture number 104. TGIF, honey. WandaVision and Drag Race. Yes, but wait. It's actually interesting you say this thing about the

mindlessness of it all because bowen i don't know about you but i actually had a bunch of people reach out after our last episode saying they felt seen by us saying that it was hard to watch things that are challenging nowadays because of the day-to-day of life and just it i felt very similarly to you rose where it's like i i can't push myself into a place where I'm A, thinking too hard or B, feeling too much because it will ruin like a stasis that I've got down at this point. You know what I mean? It's kind of why I've started to finally get into TikTok because that is the most absolute mindless thing you can do. But still high enjoyment.

Oh, so fun. It's so funny. There's this one girl on there who does this series called Baked Takes and it's like which Mamma Mia character she would want to go bowling with and shit like that. It's like so funny and people on there are so creative but also the algorithm like i'm like new to tiktok so i feel like the algorithm is trying to figure me out so you know it would

like serve me things that i liked or searched for um and so for a while it was like lesbians and twilight um and then i was like lesbians and twilight and then I was like okay now let's start looking at WandaVision now like every other TikTok is WandaVision and they're all like the same theory over and over again they're like and the theories are always so dumb they're like

I think Wanda might be the superhero known as Scarlet Witch like when people when like the pulp of Agatha the superhero known as Scarlet Witch. Like when people went like the pulp of Agatha at the end of the episode being like, this is chaos magic, Wanda. That makes you period, period, period

the Scarlet Witch. And people were like, we finally heard that she's the Scarlet Witch. It's like, girl, she's been credited as the Scarlet Witch like on the movie's credits. No, I don't think she has. But in the Wikipedia, it's like, girl, she's been credited as the Scarlet Witch on the movie's credits. No, I don't think she has. I think they never have. In the Wikipedia, it's like Wanda Maximoff slash Scarlet Witch.

We know who she is. Sure, but because of the whole 20th Century Fox owning X, Oh, is that what it is? They weren't allowed to call her Scarlet Witch until now. It's a whole like... That's why it's a deal. They were retconned to not even be mute yes

yes right you're right you're right right okay got that got that um but it is funny it is funny um but and i just so a couple things i want to say wandavision is not challenging to me at all and i do find it enjoyable for that reason yes um and in terms of the algorithm this is not tiktok but well for it's been a while i've had tiktok for like two years at terms of the algorithm, this is not TikTok, but well, for, it's been a while. I've had TikTok for like two years at this point. The algorithm still doesn't know what I like. And the Instagram algorithm, at least on my discover page is all drag race stuff. As if I was like the world's biggest drag race fan. And I'm not, I'm like, it's such an oversimplification of like who I am.

And maybe I am that dumb of a person, not dumb, but just like that simple. And I'm just like, maybe the algorithms are not as powerful as we think. I mean, they will get better, but I'm just like, oh, like I feel kind of ashamed that I'm too, I'm too simple for the algorithms. Yeah. Sometimes your explore page starts to feel like a read. Yeah. Oh yeah. Big time. Always.

Big time. Always. But like, I'm like, I'm not this person. No. And it's unfortunately mine. It's just like,

I'll go to my Explorer page and it will just be like essentially soft core porn. And then I'll just feel like shit. Cause I'll just be like, okay. Yeah, it does. And this is where I think that you're wrong, Bowen.

I think that doesn't mean you're too simple or too stupid. But this is the thing I like the most? No, no. What I'm saying is that Instagram cannot figure you out, which makes you have power over it. Because you are not some Drag Race superfan. And I know that you are on Instagram all the time. So the fact that you're on Instagram all the time. So the fact that like you're on Instagram all the time

you're on your phone all the time and Insta is like, I don't know send him a Nina Bonina Brown doing makeup. It's like, okay. It's literally rankings of how many followers the season six queens have. It's like,

why would I want to know that? It's infographics of like vintage drag race seasons and imagine like we actually like cut to cut to like an avoyer look on bowen's life and it is just him looking up like trinity k bonet all day that would be fun i would like i would love that. But I think that that means that you have superiority already over the app, which is absolutely huge. And meanwhile, it's reading me like a fucking book. But also, like, who uses the Explore page?

Right, that too. I barely even check my feed. I just, like, sometimes watch Instagram stories and mostly just, like, go on Finsta. Well, okay, speaking... I was going to bring up your Finsta because I, when I think of you, Rose, or when I think of Finsta culture, I go,

you know, the person who curates the best memes is a tie between Rose and Fran Torado. I'm like, you two are somehow in that, you guys have figured out some sourcing, or I don't know what it is, but you both like will curate the right memes. Well he's also often

stealing memes from me Where are you finding them? No I mean from Twitter from other people's Finstas Yeah they're not being created I'm not making all of the memes

He's not the Scarlet Witch I know he's not making no but she's not the scarlet witch i i know it's not chaos it's just chaos well first of all i want to i want to share your handle so bad because it really makes me laugh well you can't power away i said i want to i'm not going to but i mean but like the they're so good i'll give a tease i'll say like what it's from i won't say what it is but it is it is from the film it's from the film black swan yeah this fall on bravo it's time to turn up think you've seen it all i don't think you've been a good friend to me lately. We're friends like that.

Who needs enemies? You ain't seen nothing yet. Cheers to being Germanic. With the Real Housewives of Potomac. Oh my gosh, can I take this in? It's gonna be amazing. New York City. Everyone is a gossip.

No one gets a happier life. Salt Lake City. We don't wear pastels, we wear fashion. And below deck sailing. You broke the rules and now you're here getting upset. Watch all new seasons on Bravo or stream it on City TV+. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ,

three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer. I'm a mom and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game.

We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the s*** we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean.

He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez.

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as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image, and huge life transformations. I was a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just

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Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Was Black Swan big major culture for you? Yes, I love Black Swan. I remember seeing it in theaters. I was so obsessed. yeah i i love i love it i mean i love most of his films i loved mother mother exclamation point my mom is actually in my phone as as as lowercase lowercase mother exclamation point if i could italicize it, I would. Oh my God.

That's so funny. If you could make it into the folklore font, into that like rustic font, you would? That's actually, that's cuckoo bananas that you even bring up mother because it's the second time mother has come up today in my personal life. What? Yes, because I was talking about I Care a lot earlier

and about how people, I think a lot of the response to the movie are like people being like, I didn't like that. But when really they didn't like the way it made them feel because it's about a bad person. Whereas I think Mother was sort of the same thing. Like Mother did not make people feel good, but it was extremely good at doing that. You know what I mean? It also made you want to talk about it. Like, I saw Mother with a bunch of friends, and we saw it, I think, at Williamsburg Cinema in Brooklyn

and walked from there to Kellogg's Diner and had food. And we talked about the movie from the time we left the theater until we all got up and left at the end. It wasn't necessarily that we all loved it, but we all just really wanted to talk about it. That scene where Kristen Wiig shoots someone is iconic. It's one of the craziest collections of scenes that's ever been committed to film.

A collection of scenes is a really good way to put it. It's really rule of culture number 30. Mother is a collection of scenes. Mother is the most insane collection. One of the most insane collections of scenes put together on film. On Celluloid, really.

And sometimes I will call my mother, mother, and she really doesn't like it for some reason it's patronizing that's wait can I share can I tell Matt we'll bleep out the handle I swear to god we'll bleep it out

Bowen is chaos magic it's so crazy you can say it and then I'll do it in the voice oh yeah yeah yeah we know the voice but okay well because I really want you to be heroes for when I tell Matt because I've dreamed of this day. Actually, I'm not even joking. I'm like humiliated

and embarrassed that I'm already not following it. And I have a big complex about Finsta culture that I'm not like invited to the party. Well, your Finsta, Matt is porn. No, but the avatar is Vox Lux. Oh my god, mine is Vox Lux.

It is Natalie Portman. I love Vox Lux. I am a Vox Lux stan, a Vox Lux truther. It is, that is culture to me. What's her name again? Her name is Celeste. And her fans are called angels. I am obsessed with Vox Lux.

There's bops from the South. There are Bops. EKG, are you fucking kidding me? You have a heart attack listening to them. Sia. Sia. The controversial Sia. The lightning rod of controversy that is Sia.

Oh my God. Sia, the artist formerly known as Patty Harrison. R.I.P. really. That was art. That was truly art that Patty did. We may have to get Patty back on the show to sort of answer for herself. I've been wanting to get Patty on the show.

You need to bring her. She needs to come to the table. Come to the... And it needs to happen here. Contractually, actually. Well, go, Bowen. This is the handle. This is the handle this is the handle ready

it's a little like Sean Connery Sean Connery oh oh my god you're bleeping out all of this yeah bleep bleep bleep

but anyway it was good for us readers oh my god what a thrill every time I see it Oh my God. Wow, the way that people... You're bleeping out all of this. Yeah, bleep, bleep, bleep. But anyway, it was good for us, readers. Oh my God. Isn't that the fun? What a thrill. Every time I see it, I audibly laugh. Okay, so I'm going to assume that your top two favorite Aronofsky are Black Swan and Mother.

Yeah. And what would you say is the third? What are the other ones? Yeah. I mean, can I tell you what? I gag for The Wrestler. I thought The Wrestler was amazing. Oh, see, it's actually, I think, better than you probably think.

Because I get the Mickey Rourke sort of horror show. But, like, Marissa Tomei is so good in it. And Evan Rachel Wood's also great in it. Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm. Like, it gives the Like it gives you some, it gives the queers, you know, something.

I love Evan Rachel Wood. Oh my God. She's so good. 13. Oh please. No bra, no panties. Yeah.

No bra. The woman who taught me to huff. Evan Rachel Wood, the woman who taught me to huff. Wow. Wow. Wow, that's great. She actually brings, to use an oft-used phrase,

she actually brings it to you every ball. 13 was truly, like it rocked me to my core. I was like, I can't believe this girl is acting this way. And it was Evan Rachel Wood. True, the character and Evan. And Nikki Reed.

And Nikki Reed. Yeah, Nikki Reed. Who wrote it, yeah. Who famously went on to be in Twilight. Yeah, she was. And she also, like, I think married Ian Somerhalder. Lucky bitch. Yeah.

What a dream. Wait, but this is the thing about True Blood, though. And Bowen bone were you a true blood sort of i watched the i watched the first season then i fell off all right so in the fourth season they bring fiona shaw on as a witch and i feel they sort of ended witches for a little bit with that because they had a bad season with it was it was not great and it came off of what i think were the two best true Blood seasons which were 2 and 3 Marianne and then the werewolves

oh please oh my god Marianne she was everything Michelle Forbes she's a legend she's an icon and she is the moment

come on now Michelle Forbes who played marianne on true blood season two i watched the killing because of her i was like a i was like a michelle forbes stan and i love that actress when she popped up in the hunger games i think i screamed audibly in the movie theater. She was probably there like, I've been waiting for someone to recognize I was in this.

She went to every screening worldwide. She was like, I'm just gonna... Her family was so concerned. They were like, she's been at every showing of it. And it's playing on thousands of screens. But Marianne's capable of many things. We should say that third season

of true blood features dennis o'hare in a performance that i can only describe as made me come that's the one where he rips out the spine on tv uh oh my god back when i used to be able to sit through shit like that see that's how you know i've been through a sea change as a person like i used to be able to i used to fucking fucking, I was obsessed with True Blood. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't get why you can't, you're so squeamish now. I don't know.

You don't like gore. I don't like gore. It has to be very pulpy. Yeah, I mean, you, like I had to watch Mother, like I think I saw about 2% of it. You know what I mean? Because I was just like that the whole time.

And like, and I feel shitty about it because I want to like i want to not be such a little bitch well rose you you're you're a vampire person you love your twilight you love your true blood mm-hmm xx do you mind she's a witch oh that's right that's right that's right yeah i i i had um an early love of all things supernatural monsters i mean as a kid i loved um anne rice um i think that was probably my first exposure i read like uh um interview with a vampire like saw it way too young and i was a huge buffy girl yes okay you Okay. You would break my heart. I was like the Buffy girl.

The Buffy girl. This segues perfectly into the question, but I do want to get your take on the Joss stuff. If you have one. Yeah. You know, it's so sad because to think about um how hard like to to think about the the experiences that these people had and to think about how um how much pain went into making something that you

love that makes you so happy yeah um and so it will be forever tainted for me and that's why you know probably like when we get to the question maybe like a couple weeks or a couple years ago like that might have been it might have been i mean and we'll get to my answer and like it still kind of is partially um but it you know it's it's really shitty and i think you know it's it's so weird to think about how like this man whose career has like always kind of featured these stories about like strong women and wondering if like that was maybe a way for him to excuse the way that he like actually treated women behind the scenes 100 yeah well you know you have to think that, or again, this, and this is, I don't, not an

expert on this, but like even hearing it stated that plainly, like someone who's about creating powerful women, like there's also something with control about that. And there's so much with, you know, abusers, like if you really boil it down, like so much of it, almost all of it really is about control. And so maybe there is something to that because someone else who's credited with, you know, creating amazing characters for women is Woody Allen. Like, I wonder if people are watching it that have deigned to defend him recently, like can actually watch this and sit and have that sit in their spirit because

it's just interesting the parallels because there are these people who like you know penelope cruz when she won her oscar for vicky christina was like you can't talk about female characters without talking about woody allen and i was like well in retrospect that's pretty shitty well this is someone who worked with him to to acclaim so it's just it's it's interesting that i i wonder if there is something to that about the control about joss or oh yeah yeah or about um taking cover behind creating fictionally strong women yeah like women are only allowed to be strong uh you know in fiction on screen and on your terms yeah and it's always like you're you're the one giving the permission for sure it feels like um like especially this actually was gonna be my i don't think so honey

maybe it still can be but like with the whole anti-hero movement um it feels like we really only let men get away with that really um like it feels like you know especially like with even with i care a lot like and not to bring it up again but just because it's because it is happening in the moment no well i do actually and so and so basically what i'm saying is like it feels like if a woman is a pure out and out villain people don't i what i'm saying is like it feels like if a woman is a pure out and out villain people don't know what to do with it like even with something as stupid and it should be as goofy as maleficent it's like oh i love maleficent should just be maleficent it's actually why we bought the ticket is because i wanted to see angelina jolie wreak absolute

havoc and hell and fire flames on everyone. Like, I don't want to watch Cruella DeVille with Emma Stone and find out she has mommy issues, darling dear. And that's what it's going to be, you know. Because you know what? Her name is actually Cruel Devil. And so Emma Stone can actually just, I don't need to see her crying about trauma on a bike. I would like to see her make a dog into a coat because that's what Cruella de Vil is,

and it's actually okay. I'm with you on the Maleficent thing. How do you call the second movie Maleficent Mistress of Evil? And they're like, but she's not really evil. You know who's bad? Michelle Pfeiffer! And only kinda.

It's like, what are you doing? I bought the ticket to see Angelina Jolie be a final boss and like the reason why we loved all these villains when we were kids was like because they were bad not in spite of it

right if they do that to Ursula someday I will she's gonna be a girl boss. Ursula's going to be running a small business down in that little cave. She has an Etsy shop. Oh, no. Ursula's like, the reason I'm like this is because I didn't fit in.

The body standards under the sea are, they're too much. And I turned to water witchy. Water witchiness. Water witchy water witchy water witchery remember when the rumors were that it was gonna be Gaga Gaga more snatched than ever she goes back to her art pop body

her clavicle showing she's like I admit that in the past I've been a nasty like I'm just like. Gaga. Oh, my God. I'm like, I want to see that movie. I want to live in that universe.

We have to talk to Rose about Gaga. I reread the Art Pop piece, and I fully agree with you. Oh, the one I wrote for paper? Yes. So I sort of went back down the rose wormhole and I was just like, especially in retrospect, like, Art Pop is my favorite Gaga without a doubt.

Is it really? Yeah, it is. It's so funny because it's like, I love When it came out, you hated it, I remember. Yeah, and in retrospect, I have a completely different opinion on it because I was always fearful of Gaga because I was fearful of myself i i i honestly think this queer people who are afraid of themselves and their sexuality and their identity hey they distrust gaga or they were they were slower to god i'm not kidding i really think that okay okay okay interesting this

is interesting but we should ask the question let's ask the question this is the question we ask all of our guests rose what is the culture that made you say culture is for me okay i thought really hard about this and i'm all good yeah and i and i like was overthinking it and there were so many things that i think it could have been and then i like really thought about what like what the question is and it's like what is the culture that made me say like oh culture is for me because that famously is what the question is thank you for that cadence

and they're going queen and so the culture that made me realize culture is for me is fanfiction fanfiction.net fanfiction.net live journal you know like

angel fire websites yes I and I think the reason that that is is because fanfiction made me realize

that you were allowed to love something that much you were allowed to love a piece of culture so much that that love didn't

stop when it was over it didn't stop when the when the like author or creator told you who those characters were that you were allowed to play in their sandbox and and like remix what they had created and live in that world um yeah and and so many so many pieces so many things i think around the time that i discovered that like were connected to it it was like about internet culture and fandom and like being like a weird goth you know girl um and uh yeah like i just loved and still to this day like i read fan fiction if i really like um like a movie or a book or something the first thing i do when it ends is like oh i wonder if there's fan fiction about this right like i'm not ready for it to be over i just want to say um this is think, this is one of our best answers. I would agree.

What were some fanfictions that you dabbled in? And did you create it yourself? I did, and that's a big part of it. I learned to write reading and writing fanfiction. You know, like obviously I loved

books, and that could have been my answer it's like books or like libraries or whatever but really it was like and yes i i so i did write fan fiction i think probably like the earliest fan fiction i read was like buffy and harry potter right you know harry potter fanfic. It was huge. And I was like firing up the E machine in, in my, you know, like bedroom and, you know,

just consuming fanfiction for hours while listening to Evanescence until like my eyes started to bleed. Harry Potter was the gateway into a lot of other fanfiction. I would say. Maybe this is just, like, well-established. Well, the world is so big. But the trouble with Harry Potter fan fiction, to me, was always, oh, you're trying to write, like, J.K. Rowling, and you should make a choice that is deliberately not J.K.

in order to make it interesting. That's why, like, the quote's why the poorly written fanfics between Malfoy and Harry fucking that were really lewd and disgusting were my favorites. Well, I loved the more ridiculous ones, like the iconic, famous My Immortal fanfiction.

No, wait, what is that one? Okay, so there's this fanfiction called My Immortal that's about you know, there's this fanfiction there's been there's this fan fiction called my immortal that's about you know there's this fan fiction trope of the the like mary sue self-insertion character where's this character who's like not tied to the actual thing that's happening and it's like so cool and perfect and like has super like crazy superpowers and my is that, but like on fucking crack. It's this girl who is named,

I think her name's Ebony, but like the author misspells it as Enabee. And she's like a goth Satanist who enrolls at Hogwarts. And there's been so much like, like discourse around this about whether it was real or if it was like someone trolling but it is it is truly a masterpiece um yeah i've heard about my immortal i have not i should just

how long is it is it a long read i feel like i should just read it it's either like 10 000 words or 100 000 i could not tell you because it didn't matter there you were like up into the crack of dawn eyes bleeding yeah yeah it didn't matter that that and that's part of it too is like like i remember i used to this is so humiliating but i used to read american idol fan fiction of like them at the house you have no idea i read this fan fiction one time that was ryan secrets going knocking on the door of the um american idol season four house like to look for anthony federov who came in like fifth or sixth it was like this like blonde twink who like was like a tenor and i swear to god i read a full sex fan fiction and you I did a hundred percent about Ryan Seacrest, like eating Anthony Fedorov's ass.

And then I could have been reading it for four hours or 58. Like that's what I'm saying. I was totally lost in the world of like this insane pornographic fanfic. And that's what I was going to ask you was a lot of the shit that you read porn. Um, I mean, I think a fair amount of it because like this was

like puberty time for me but also like i don't know i was really into people who really took the time to build out like alternative universes and like put a lot of detail in it and still like to this day i think you know you see so many authors now who got their start writing fan fiction i mean and it's become mainstream look at 50 shades of gray yeah which i love i am of course i'm great stan because why hate on it it literally is what it is what it is like like you know what i mean like it just is what it is and the movies it's not gonna be better or worse the movies are so fun they always get such bops on the soundtracks, too. Dakota's great.

You do love Dakota. You and Dakota have a similar energy. Is that fair to say? Um, sure. We both have bangs. Well, no, but you would have said that to Ellen. You would have said that to Ellen 100%. Maybe. Like, that's not the truth.

I can just hear you going, no, Ellen. I also, I loved Dakota from Fifty Shades of Grey, but what really took me over the edge with her was Suspiria. Oh my god. I love Suspiria.

It is, it became immediately one of my favorite movies. And I don't like the original i think i i think the original is bad and i know all the fucking like film twitter people are gonna start coming for me but suspiria i could sit through that three-hour movie six times a day what about it because i i have to admit that i have not seen it and i'm'm afraid to. I, for some reason, have the squeamishness that Matt normally has around Tesperia. Well, that one is, like, for real. Like, it goes there.

It's so good. You know, it's The Witches again. I think what I really liked was I did see the original first. And, you know, the hallmark of the original is that it's, like, this, like, really, like, technicolor, you know, like, super saturated movie. And, like, it's all about like really like technicolor um you know like super saturated movie and like it's all about style over substance and then the the remake is like so muted um and like austere it's like you know it's so german um and i i thought dakota was so like incredible in it. Tilda's amazing. I mean, Tilda in that old man prosthetics. Yeah.

Playing that old man and playing this amazing high priestess. And the gore is so ridiculous. The music, the Tom York soundtrack is amazing. I just, I fucking love that movie. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Oh, we got on this topic because of 50 shades of gray I I do before we and I'm not ready to move on quite yet but I do want to point out that Rose is on to something um that might be a little obvious but like the the like fan

fiction culture at that time let's say circa 2006 2005 2004 or that at that time, let's say circa 2006, 2005, 2004, or that at that time in the, in the internet, that was the like precursor to all this stuff that we have now, which is like Stan culture, which is like, like film Twitter,

even I want to say all like secret because it wasn't, because it wasn't cool to like something that much. Exactly. No, it wasn't. It was all like secret because it wasn't, because it wasn't cool to like something that much. Exactly. No, it wasn't. It was a lot. There was a lot of irony. That's so true.

We, we, I don't think we've been in like a state where it's cool to be ironic for some time now. I feel like it's, it's, it's, and I'm so glad because I,

I'm not, I don't fit in with that. Like I, I cannot hide. And that. Like, I cannot hide. And that's, I mean, that's, I think, the one thing that I really like about culture today is like, and maybe we've swung a like Buffy, Lord of the Rings crossover fan fiction, you know, by the glow of my computer screen in the middle of the night, hoping that my mom wouldn't walk in. Not because I was like doing, not because I was like, you know, like getting off to it or anything, but because it just felt like I shouldn't. There was an element of shame. There was an element of shame. It was like element of shame. There was an element of shame.

It was like, you should have gotten over that after you read it or watched it. Like, you shouldn't still be so obsessed with it. But I was. And especially, you know, when you factor queerness into it. Because, I mean, I do think it's very telling that when I started fan fiction, you know, I was very interested in, like, heterosexual romances. And this was, like, way pre-transition. So who knows what kind of like gender fantasy I was living out. But then like that evolved into like reading queerness into the media I was consuming and wanting to see that explored in fan works yeah i feel like we should also remember that like the box of what was quote unquote cool to like at that time was very small because there was almost no representation and there were very few platforms as compared to what we have today so i feel like it's easier to find

community and what you like just because there is more of it out there and like there is such a like obviously like not to say queerness is embraced but like there are there is queer representation at all and so like that obviously opens up so so much content to like and to embrace it just didn't exist at the time. Of course, I'm talking about how I read fanfic for the most popular fucking television show in America. We're talking about how the popular fanfic of the time was Harry Potter, the most popular children's

book in the world, in the history of the world. You know what I mean? You were obsessed with Lost, right? I was. Did you read Lost fanfiction? I did. I did. In many Lost fanfictions, they actually gave Kate a personality, which I was. Did you read Lost fan fiction? I did. I did. In many Lost fan fictions, they actually gave Kate a personality, which I loved. Like when Juliet came on that show, I was like, oh my gosh, like a female character with depth. I'm obsessed.

But yeah, no, I did. I read a lot of fan fic for Lost. This is kind of a different conversation. But what you're saying Matt about there not being as many platforms back then is interesting to me because I also think now things are distributed and circulated like that.

This is a weird example, but let's say Queen's Gambit comes out and then five days later everyone's doing the meme of the girl eating all the pills and stuff. The visual language or the shared language of this is being like five days later, everyone's doing like the meme of the girl, like eating all the pills and stuff, you know, it's like, okay, like there's like the, the visual language or the shared language of this is being developed within

days. And like back in the, like back then it would be like, remember, was this just me? Like, remember like trying to like get your friends to watch a certain show, but then like it would be in its second or third season.

So you, you would have to like blend them, the DVDds of the first couple seasons of the show like i did that with gray's anatomy with certain friends i was like you have to watch gray's anatomy when it was like season three and like i haven't seen it before i'm like here borrow my dvd like it was like there was an access yeah there was an act but it's not even that it was just like there was there were just more obstacles in the path of getting people to be on the same page as you. Yeah. I have a lot of memories about, as a kid,

desperately trying to get people to understand why they needed to watch something. I remember being at Sleepaway Camp and telling my camp counselor that she had to see Ever After starring Drew Barrymore. And I was like and i was like repeat i was like there's this part where angelica houston who's her stepmother tells her like how could i ever love a pebble in my shoe and it is such a sick burn and my camp counselor was like shut up and go play basketball um but yeah like you, we had all these fan communities where if your friends in real life weren't on that, weren't vibing with you, weren't on the same wavelength. There was proof online that there were thousands of other people who were.

Yes. Yes. That makes a lot of sense. Makes total sense. And now it's like you don't really have to. Now I never I don't find myself having to convince people to like something that I like because who cares if they like it too that you know for a fact that there's a million people that

like it or don't have you know they have all the cultural access points to it and if they haven't found their way to it already you know like there's only so much you can do exactly it's so funny that that we land on this because Bowen when you said before like um what

sort of cues you into watching what you're watching um uh maybe that's part of it yeah well for me it's twitter like if i go on which which sucks and i hate twitter and i think it's currently i have a deactivated i've been like battling with myself all week you've been yeah but it is like when i log on and i see everyone talking about it's a sin or i or i care a lot or like anything that people are talking about right now this week i probably do get it from that site and that's that's you know it's a pro and a con because it's a pro because it gets me keyed into what people are talking about and i like to be part of the conversation like rose was saying but also um it makes me rely on that site too much like that I cannot rely on that site for like um my cultural consumption and

news and social interaction and a joke platform and this this this it just becomes too all-encompassing but I realize that that is my answer that is my personal answer to that question from before that that may totally make sense to me but also it's it's it's true because like you find the people that you trust and if you're on the fence about something then like usually something like twitter like i i remember when when veneno came out i was like i like heard about it and then once i saw the the specific people whose opinions I really trust being like, yeah, this is it. This is the moment.

I was like, okay, I got to watch that. And it happened with me, with you. When you said Dickinson season two was the moment I was like, was it? Dickinson is so good. I,

and now that you said that I've watched the first three episodes of the first season and I'm into it. It's really good. Jane Krakowski vehicle. I'm always happy with, but it's into it. It's really good. Jane Krakowski vehicle, I'm always happy with. But it's so good. It's so queer. I was surprised.

Yeah. I didn't love that. I mean, you'll get there. I didn't love some of the end of season two, but it really matured in season two. And I mean, I love Emily Dickinson. I love like, you know, like death obsessed,

like goth girls writing poetry in their bedrooms. I mean, that was me writing fan fiction. Yeah. And like season two is also like such an exploration of fame and like, you know, the pitfalls of like wanting and achieving fame. And it's, yeah, I love, I love. And it's also in a way, it's like fan fiction about this real person's life totally totally totally i wanted to ask you what your relationship is to haley steinfeld rose um because she we believe she's the queen of pop i don't know she's the queen of pop

i i really liked bumblebee I watched it on a plane once. You're on the wrong side of rock bottom. I did eat some lobster next to her at the Dickinson premiere party. Huge. Did she go in on the lobster or was she dainty about it? No, she wasn't eating lobster. I was eating lobster adjacent to her. They had a really, they had a really crazy premiere party

at the at the Dumbo Soho house and I was just like there was a whole seafood buffet and I was just like eating I was like

taking lobster to the face and next to Hailee Steinfeld but I think I think she's

really I like that song I love that's her right yeah I love I love myself's her right yeah I love I love myself which is which back to Dakota Johnson is the

last song in one of my favorite movies how to be single which I think is a very slept on rom-com yeah I gotta see it because I see it in Dakota as well and if I can't watch this period I gotta watch how to be single it's like one opposite end of the spectrum it's really fun it in Dakota as well and if I can't watch Suspiria I gotta watch How to Be Single it's like the opposite end of the spectrum

it's really fun it's one of the only movies that I own on iTunes I bought it you are a cinephile I own How to Be Single

and Practical Magic those are the only two movies I own that really checks out are you a practical magic type of girl girl

that was I mean that could have also been my the culture that made me the culture was for me because which movie

which movie like and it was Nicole Sandra Nicole Sandra and also like not just the movie itself but like the

the soundtrack I think that's probably what introduced me to Stevie Nicks what introduced me to Joni Mitchell that scene where she's singing along to A Case of You when she's driving

and I love Alice Hoffman who wrote the book that it's based on has written two prequel books and they're both really great I love practical magic that whole 90s witch

aesthetic and that magical realism I think is really fun in supernatural movies. And you know, like, girl power, sisterhood. It's so funny to think of Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock in a movie together at all, and then you remember

it's that. And you think, well well it can't possibly work it works it works you absolutely believe it it's magic that's and that's also movie magic which is huge in hollywood movie magic is huge in hollywood it's a rule of culture. It's still culture number 51. Movie magic is huge in Hollywood. So Bowen, are you thinking what I'm thinking? Just saying I wanted to commend Rose on what I thought was an extremely well-written piece about art pop.

Yes, yes. But I wanted to, do you still have the same take on the art pop of it all? Me? No. See, this is why it's good to check in with Rose about the piece because this was written like right post stars born or during stars born when she was like hadn't yet we hadn't yet

known what she'd pivot to from stars born no it was it was post stars born it was when it was like fall of 2019 so it was like the oscar she'd won she'd won the oscar she was like getting ready to go into chromatica right so now i guess my question to you is now that we have chromatica out in the world does your take on the gaga through the lens of art pop of it all change like do you feel that chromatica was um a return to her sort of i don't give a pop i don't give a fuck pop dance like let me try things moment or do you think chromatica is low impact um i love chromatica um i think both of you probably know from eddie like cursory search of my social media i literally have the blanket behind me I have I have given so many of

my transsexual dollars to Lady Gaga in the past year um and no I love Chromatica I do think though that it doesn't change how I feel about art pop because I think like yes Lady Gaga returned to this to this like you know high intensity like dance. But I do think art pop was the last time she was a pop star in the way that we first met her. Yes. In a fearless capacity. In that sort of way where it's like, I love what you said when you were saying

every artistic impulse was followed. Yeah. It felt like there was not the word no in the realm of the creation of that it was it was more is more it was let's do everything because you know after after the you know success of born this way um you know she was at her most like pop maximalist. And I think that's why we saw that the direction she took afterwards when art pop, you know,

like quote unquote flopped, like which it didn't commercially, you know, it was successful commercially. It just like, wasn't as successful, you know, critically.

Right. Even though I think it's an amazing album. It's not my favorite album, but I think it's an amazing album, but you know, she really, everything that happened after that album really recontextualized her, both to us,

to the public, to pop culture, and I think to herself. Oh, yeah. As in, she started to take herself more seriously as far as not being this really outré pop artist now she was like now it does feel like she's been taking herself more like a little i don't know i was gonna say too seriously

but no that's not true bowen you have always said this about gaga which which i i and i agree i don't know if i agree with it or I can recognize it as could be true, which is that she in every new stage of her career is performing a new type of fame. So with the star is born of it all and the can dancers on the red carpet and the sort of crying when she wins and the thanking of the leading man and director and the fact that it's a star is born and you know what I mean? The glam of it all, um,

that you believe that this is part of a performance that she is doing because it's a performance of that type of movie stardom. Yes. Where she's like, and thank you to my co-star. And like, oh yeah, like that,

that was what a star is born was. I don't know what art pop was in terms of her like study of fame. Well, I guess I would, what I'm saying is like it thinking that she is performing these different types of fame is sort of in conflict with she takes herself too seriously because if she's, if she's performing different types of fame,

then she, then she's in control of that performance. Right. I guess my question to the panel is, do we think that's less true than maybe we have before? Yeah, maybe. I mean,

like, I think so. I think that that performance of fame was a lot more intentional in her early work. I mean, you literally, the fame, the fame monster.

And then I, I think it has to happen that once you achieve a certain degree of fame you can't make art about it in the same way because you're like actually inhabiting that reality right right i just think that art pop was her because at that point that was when like you would have elton john in interviews i distinctly remember this be like she's she has like elton john in interviews saying she has too many yes people she has too many people saying yes and she said people were lying to me like people on her team she felt were lying to her and then she left her manager right i mean that was just a chaotic

time that i think was reflected in like even the the rollout of the album and when she revealed the track list bros do you remember this the way she revealed the art pop track list was through little individual instagram photos with little like like a little like little mural paintings it was like a five-year-old had painted like the the words like aura and like a little pictureyear-old had painted, like, the words, like, aura and, like, a little picture of, like, a right so like that that part of it all like seeing the kind of performance i was seeing on like a really micro level be then performed at its most outrageous i think even then i i recognize like that's not something that's sustainable and i think right you thought you knew it when you knew it had to stop yeah i think that's probably- Right, you knew it had to stop. Yeah, I think that's probably what, there was like some level of burnout, I think. Yeah, 100%. And do you think that, how do I ask this question? Do you think that the commercial

quote unquote failure and critical quote unquote failure of art pop is what ended that or do you think that there was just not no further she could go at that time like as an artist was the call coming from inside the house or was it external forces um i think it's a little bit of both i mean you know her her body literally gave out on her was breaking down she had she had had such this crazy ascendancy and then, you know, like maybe hit a wall or something in the public eye. And, you know, she took such a hard pivot to like doing, I think, something that was like more comfortable for her, which was, you know, like the cheek to cheek of it all. And a star is born. Yeah, I just think she, I don't, and like, I really don't like this idea of like framing art pop as a failure. And that's like really why, why, and I'm not saying that you all are like, and that's why I wrote that essay because that essay was in reaction to her saying, I don't remember art pop.

And I was so upset by that because it felt like she was... That was odd. And I feel like it probably was just like all, you know, starting the promo machine going for Chromatica. Like she'd fire off a tweet every couple months and like get the girls riled up. But it really felt like because the... She abandoned this part of her legacy. She abandoned the legacy of that album.

And like this, the, the stands and little monsters who were like really rode hard for that. Right here. Yes. Yeah. She bailed on the commitment of it. And the commitment of it was,

it was so important. Like it felt like it was everything at a hundred. And so years later to tweet out, I don't remember this because it's not even like, it's not even like she said, I hate art pop, which I think everyone would have been able to know was like a troll move because she is a troll.

Like Bowen always points out, like Lady Gaga is an online troll. Like she will go online and she'll troll. Rumors I'm pregnant. Yeah. Pregnant with LG6. Pregnant with something from those chromatical oreos once we find out they are soiling green they are they are they are disgusting they are i have i

have so many packages of them in my cabinet and every time i open it i can smell them i think about the ore Oreo of it all with, with, but, and, and I like, again, like as we're talking about it now, I don't know if I'm behind this anymore,

but this idea that like, it's a performance of fame at every stage. I, I can get behind that when it comes to the Oreo of it all, because she's like, L O fucking L. I'm an Oreo. Such a wink.

Yeah. You know, that feels to me like it has to be knowing, like if she is officially like Gwen Stefani target pop star, and that she's an Oreo. Oreo is such a wink, yeah. You know, that feels to me like it has to be knowing. Like, if she is officially, like, Gwen Stefani target pop star and that she's an Oreo, then that's a tragedy. I don't believe it's true. I believe that she's knowing about the Chromatica Oreo. I agree. Or I need to believe that anyway.

I don't know. I'm just happy that her dogs were returned and that the walker is safe. Although, was there an update on that? The the walker is safe. Although I, was there an update on that? Did the, the dog walker said something? I don't know. I haven't been.

Oh no. I, I hadn't checked in on the situation. I heard that the dogs were safely returned and that to me was like, okay, so there's not more of a thread we're going to follow here. What about the person who was shot walking them? Or who returned them and how did they get them?

I know that she said here, I'm going to give half a million dollars, no questions asked. But like, you got to ask some questions if someone was shot. Yeah. Also Lady Gaga being like, no questions asked. Like the police are like, well, not really.

That's such like an Italian, that's such an Italian, like I was going to say like a mobster thing to do. I think she is doing a gangster movie in Rome. Well, she's doing the Gucci movie. Oh. Right,

right, right, right, right. Because I had heard that she was also going to do like a mob movie, which felt so Stephanie. Yeah, I can see that.

I mean, we got, we got to have her play. She's just an Italian girl from New York. Have you ever been to Joanne? I hadn't heard that before. Have you ever been to Joanne I hadn't heard that before have you ever been to Joanne yes

yeah we went together we've been together I wanted to date their ones separately it's true what do you want to say about it Rose

it is not very good I've it's not good at all the food is wrong it is the food is wrong it is is... The food is wrong. It is toe up.

It is toe up food. The bartenders there, like, God bless them, just lost Hell's Kitchen souls. We love them. We wish them well. We do have an update. I do wish that I owned the Joanne Trattoria Pride 2019 T-shirt. I'm sad that I didn't buy it when I had the Joanne Trattoria Pride 2019 t-shirt. I'm sad

that I didn't buy it when I had the chance. Someone out there has to have access and we can get it sent. We can make them ourselves and sell them as Lost Culture East as well. That's true. We are all about using Popstars' whole deal and making merch off of it for ourselves. We have an update on

Lady Gaga's Dog Walker. Lady Gaga's dog walker Ryan Fisher wrote that he is, quote, still in recovery from a very close call with death and that a lot of healing still needs to happen. Okay, Jada. Nonetheless, he added, the gratitude for all the love I feel from around this planet is immense and intense, which feels like

it came from Lady Gaga's dog walker for sure. It feels like it came from Lady Gaga's dog walker for sure. It feels like it came from Lady Gaga. Yeah, I know. Anyone using the word planet, you have to think maybe this is Gaga. That was written by a kindness punk for sure.

You are a kindness punk, aren't you? Am I? Yeah, I am. I'm trying to be. I'm a kindness punk. i'm trying to be i'm a kind you feel i'm trying to be i'm trying to be nicer i think i like um so much of my personality used to be based around like being mean and like being aloof and like that's not fun i want to i want to be nice no it's really not see that i think i think the being being mean is cool of it all ended with irony culture

or like detachment culture yeah for sure because Lady Gaga I'm sure used to be mean yeah interesting the one time I met her she was very nice when did you meet her? I met her

this was like when I used to live on the Lower East Side I met her the day after the alejandro video came out and i met her at a bar on rivington street where she was like that that like guy who she used to date who owned all those lower east side bars and i was with some friends and we were like going to a party and we walked by and there was a woman standing out, a blonde woman standing outside in just her underwear. And I was like,

that is Lady Gaga. And I was a huge little monster. And like all my friends were straight and none of them cared. And we, and so we left and we eventually went back there and she was still there. And, you know, you could kind of see people like hovering around wanting to, like, say hi to her.

But this was, like, the height of, you know, like, hipster, you know, like, downtown culture. It wouldn't have been cool. So, but I didn't care. And, you know, like, I got to, like, said hi to her. And she was just, very nice she was just sitting at the end of the bar like throwing back beers all night waiting for the bar to close so she could get laid oh my god wow i love that so much and i also just want to quickly say that hipster culture was so embarrassing oh humiliate deeply everything about it the aesthetic of it was embarrassing the attitude the bangs and I really participated in it

oh me too 100% my friend Kayla Sturback in high school got me the Hipster Handbook and it was my favorite fucking book of all time I gotta listen to Pavement I gotta listen to every Radiohead album

it truly made me it like stunted my development and i think that's why i swung so hard away from it like after that into like real dirtbag club kid like super glam like uh on like no irony culture is because i was like yes that fucking sucks and like only straight people are into that. And I'm like fucking queer. And I'm not going to be like ironic about anything. I'm going to be really fucking literal and maximalist about everything. Yes, because I think you're onto something where it's like hipster culture was a way to like fence queer people into something that was still heteronormative. But we were like, oh, but this is like, this feels different enough. It was still like, oh, but this were like oh but this is like this feels different enough it was still like

oh but this is being dictated by straight people and straight people only totally and like we were still there was still another like barrier to break out of in order for queer people to be like oh this is what we actually it was like alternative but it was still like homogenous yes yes well the funniest shit

was like it was sort of the death rattle of hipster culture was probably like 2010 ish right like and so the funniest shit was watching people that went to nyu pretend they were hipsters like dressed up in their hipster chic and then hang around washington square park it's like girl if you go to NYU, you're not... You can't... Like, this is not a thing. I know. Come on. Embarrassing. I miss New York so much.

Oh. It's been waiting for you. Taylor Swift. We need to talk about Taylor. Well, just give some thoughts. Go ahead. Talk. You know I'm a Swifty. And I really appreciate it. I don't think a hipster could be a Swifty.

You know what I mean? That would have been the antithesis of what it meant to be that. But you know, you probably were definitely bumping red at that time. Oh, absolutely. And she was such a part of like uh the counterculture i was experiencing at that time and like and queer people even then were like accessing her um and and now um i yeah i this whole era has been so fucking good i mean folklore like i i'm still bumping it almost every day yeah I only just started

spinning Evermore all the way through because I wasn't done with folklore yet I'm almost there but I'm still putting folklore on before I go to bed just to like wind down because I'm like this the vibe here is so perfect I've listened to Mirrorball approximately a hundred thousand times it's the best song of that

whole era it's one of my favorite songs she's ever made. Agree. Agree. And I truly did shrooms on Fire Island in July. Like, me and Julio were in this house locked up together because we were, like, too scared to do anything except to go to Fire Island, lol. But I would play Mirrorball and just walk around.

I walked up the entire, down the entire length of the island just listening to Mirrorball on repeat. And I was truly in heaven. Watching the sunset, I was like, this is perfect. I want to go to Fire Island. I wanted to get a share for this summer, but I think it's too late already. No, I don't think it is.

I have news for my friends. Hooli and I got a quarter show and we have like one week every single month from May to October. You guys, anyone is welcome to come. Well, huge to hear and I will take you up.

I did want to say like I'm finally at the point now where I think and this is only because like when she announced that Evermore was coming out, there was a little part of me and Bowen,

we talked about this. It was just like exhaustion and it was just like a little bit like Taylor. Overwhelmed. Taylor. It felt just like exhaustion. And it was just like a little bit like Taylor. Overwhelmed. Taylor. It felt so Taylor for her to do that.

And I was so, I feel it was so feeling Taylor at that point. I felt on my feet on the ground. You want Taylor. You know what I mean? I was just like, I was just like ready to like feel my oats and my Taylor, my spirit.

Cause Taylor is the soul and Taylor is the eyelashes. Stunt. Yes. And so, so when she sort of batted the eyelashes is really the way i can describe it the soul on the eyelashes and so basically when she batted the eyelashes that's what the disney movie that's what the disney movie soul is about it's about us it's about i wish it had been about. It's about a soul and a pair of eyelashes.

And they fall in love. That's exactly it. And then they create the best pop star of all time. Ava Max. Were you a Max Anista? I hate that for you. You know who is?

My sweet sister, Bowen. I love I love the one song that samples around the world he doesn't love the one song he loves many of the songs that's true Bowen Yang don't lie My Head and My Heart is an absolute

masterpiece listen to that single readers it's phenomenal anyway what I was gonna say was i'm finally at the point now where i've gotten over myself because it was entirely coming from me the call was coming from inside the house that had nothing to do with taylor or terla evermore and folklore are equals it is i cannot pick a favorite because evermore so i put together like a folk more which is my favorites from both now i've moved on and i'm listening to evermore so i put together like a folk more which is my favorites from both

now i've moved on and i'm listening to evermore just straight away through girl ivy gets slept on ivy is incredible it is one of the best songs lyrically she has ever written yes absolutely and then also musically the arrangement is beautiful too yeah and i i cowboy like me is so good. Like, I'm only saying these ones now because this is like at the point in the album,

like, let me just scroll over here. Yeah, their tracks. Tolerate it. Oh my God. Oh, tolerate it from the beginning.

I've been like, I mean, any track five, I'm like, any track five on Taylor, I'm like, even if I don't like it the first time,

I know that's my problem. You know what I mean? Like, I will like it. And she made it a track five for a reason. Yeah, exactly.

And so for me, like Ivy and Cowboy Like Me are tracks 10 and 11 made it a track 5 for a reason yeah exactly and so for me like Ivy and Cowboy Like Me are tracks 10 and 11 on a 15 track album and I was kind of like after Folklore and this that's when I was running out of steam and so I just didn't they didn't hit with me I was just tired I guess now I am obsessed with these songs

and I only really just got around to the fact that Closure is about Kim Kardashian and I it's such a good song I only really just got around to the fact that closure is about Kim Kardashian. And I, it's, it's such a good song that like ends that chapter. Matt,

I'm sorry. I'm sorry to do this in front of Rose, but I think next, next episode should be, should, should that be the, an evermore track by track? We can,

here's the thing. We can definitely go. We can definitely go. We can definitely go track by track. Because I want to listen to it. I have, I want to hear it. I mean, I'm actually, I have to say, like before, like, I just want, I'm so happy to be here. And I like, I don't want to be too like whatever, but oh my God, I'm like actually getting a little emotional. You know, like I live, I live in LA.

I live by myself. I moved here in July, mid pandemic. And like, I'm very isolated. I'm like actually getting a little emotional. You know, like I live, I live in LA. I live by myself. I moved here in July, mid pandemic. And like, I'm very isolated. I live alone. And this podcast, like I listened to it all the time.

Cause it makes me feel like I'm not alone. And I, I'm almost like, I'm almost like a little disappointed to be on it this week. Cause I won't get to like be surprised by a new episode. And like, you know, it's like what y'all do here is really special.

And like every week that when I listened to you, it like feels like I'm like hanging out with friends, like being welcomed into something like really intimate and fun. And I'm just like, feel like very happy to get to be part of it. Thank you for saying that because cut to me crying hysterically. Um, thank you for saying that because honestly,

I'm a cancer. I had to bring the, Oh my God, Pisces. Okay. So this is what it is. Cause Pisces, Scorpio cancer.

That's very much it. Um, the re literally whenever anyone that's as dynamic as you, like any queer person says something like that, that just is so validating for us. and so, I mean, that's literally what as you like any queer person says something like that that just is so validating for us and so I mean that's literally what keeps us doing it I've listened to the

top 200 moments of culture several times all the way through well you know we're approaching 250 so we got to do something about I think we might have to do a new list I once listened to like two episodes on the drive to, from, and waiting in line at Raising Cane's. What's Raising Cane's?

Raising Cane's is this like chicken tender restaurant in LA. It's like very much like LA drive-thru culture. Yes. You got to come out to LA again Beau so we can all do Raising Cane's let's do it anyway

wow thank you for saying that and so now yes we will do Evermore next week okay everyone and then and Beau and I

still have to talk about I Care A Lot for just two minutes yes yes yes at that point I will have something to say about it as well and I have to watch

It's A Sin have you watched It's A Sin Rose? I have not I haven't watched it yeah everyone to say about it as well and i have to watch it's a sin have you watched it's a sin i have i have not i i haven't watched it um yeah everyone's talking about like everyone is talking about it um so you know maybe i'll get around to it i'm not feeling like super pressed to right now it i i know like the conversation about it is that it's really heavy and i'm just not in the place for that right now. I'm prioritizing

my mental health and not watching things that are super sad. I'm watching Top Model for like six hours a night. That's it. And I love that. I only ask because I heard that Neil Patrick Harris plays a bottom, which felt like a revolution to me. He's in it?

Interesting. So anyway, it's great to see him spreading his wings and his whole. This fall on Bravo. It's time to turn up. Think you've seen it all? I don't think you've been a good friend to me lately. We're friends like that. Who needs enemies?

You ain't seen nothing yet. Cheers to being Germanic. With the real housewives of potomac oh my gosh can i take this in it's gonna be amazing new york city everyone is a gossip no one gets a happier life salt lake city we don't wear costumes we wear fashion and below deck sailing you broke the rules and now you're here getting upset watch all new seasons on bravo or stream it on city tv plus i'm cheryl swo time. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian, and Basketball Hall of Famer.

I'm a mom, and I'm a woman. I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share

those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the s*** we go through. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby,

an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes.

I'm a dude, you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past, and we're just going to sit here and talk about them. And we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of types of dudes are there, Gronk? We got studs, wizards. We got freaks.

Or dudes dude. We got dogs. Dogs. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dude's dude? We're going to find out, Jules.

New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere.

Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's just move right along from that sentence to, I guess I don't think so, honey, huh? Yes, yes. Wow, even. And I feel like in ending this episode, we are not ending Rose's time on Lost College because you must return. I feel like third co-host energy, it's wild.

We've had such good guests lately, bro. We've had great guests. You really have. The last couple episodes of the podcast have been so fun. Thank you. That's very nice. And I'm not including this because I think I'm going to be a total flop.

I am. No, this episode, I'm already saying as soon as we get off this call, this call, but I'm telling Matt, I'm like, this is a fantastic one. This is really exceptional. I'm really excited this is a fantastic one this is really exceptional we'll see how your legions of fans respond to it

and I was very happy to I loved what y'all said about me last week saying that I am taste I will now be using that as my new official bio I am taste. Okay, so this is I Don't Think So, Honey.

Bo and Yang. Correct me if I'm wrong. The 60 Minute 60 Minute. Can you fucking believe? Get a picture of that. Get the screenshot of that. 60 Minute. You're right. We'll be here forever. We'll be here for three hours at least. Anyway. It's a 60 second

segment where we rail against something in pop culture that we sorry but hate um and need to address in a feverishly critical manner yes yes i have one do you have one i do okay we'll start with you i'm gonna sort of not do the one i said i was gonna do before because i think i made that point saliently. Oh, okay. Okay. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. This award season at all.

What is a single movie that is up for anything? What is Pieces of a Woman? Someone tell me. What, girl, what is... Tonight I have to watch a movie I barely had even heard of in the conversation. The United States versus Billie Holiday. It's a winner as of last night. Thrilled that it is. watch um a movie i barely had even heard of in the conversation uh the united states versus billy holiday it's a it's a winner as of last night thrilled that it is huge andre day fan didn't know i'd have to i didn't know it was out so many of these movies i didn't know they were out the

award season this year is like 30 years long the oscars are in april deep april i'm like how is that what's gonna happen next year i don't know what is the father what is it like and also everything's on television what's a show what's a movie it's really fascinating when you think about it and also I love the joke last night where it's like no I don't want to watch a movie

that's two hours long I'd rather watch a TV show that's five hours long I thought everything is sort of fucking with each other the forms now we're supposed to have the Oscars girl call it the super Emmys because what? I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. I just don't know what to,

and then things they said were popping off like a month ago. Aren't it's so hard to track it. Yeah. It feels like the one constant has been Nomadland. Right, right, right. Truly.

And I don't know about that. I'm not watching another Francis McDormand movie after three billboards it's not happening feels like your dance card should be full that's a no from me dog wow you know that phrase has really started to

roar back oh yeah for me it's very much like that's going to be a no from me dog and also not mean I've been saying that a lot not mean to be a no for me dog. And also Namin. I've been saying, yeah, saying that a lot. Namin. Wow. That's a no for me dog had a resurgence.

I want to say in like 2014 as well. Like it keeps sort of like the, the, the rhythm of it is really interesting. And I have noticed that it's, it's making a return on. Yeah. American Idol stays foot pressed on the girls.

The way that they try I'm not over it I'm not over first of all I'm not over any of Katy Perry's fashions and I say this as a Katy Kat who's appeared as a co-star in her music video I am also a Katy Kat you better be imagine not being a Katy Kat

how humiliating one of the best pop songs of the past decade of all time. Of all time, yes. Oh, I was going to say of all time. When the chorus hit the first time I ever heard it, I screamed. I screamed.

And the words I screamed were, Katie is back. And the music video, her with the long curly wig and her fucking tits out in that amazing flowing gown standing in the middle of that field like the

servation the servation I also had to laugh when she got in trouble for all the appropriation she has done she goes what's more white woman than intense therapy and the whole song was about therapy I was like,

this is so funny. I just couldn't believe her pivot. It was a pivot indeed. We're happy for Katie. I feel, and I'm just going to say this out loud,

Katie should come on. Okay. Absolutely. She should. Katie should come on. She should. Okay. She loves you.

You're our way in. She did comment ILY on one of my instruments. And you are part of the Katie Perry Cinematic Universe. Yes. I'm part of the KPCU. You have to. And so she should be part of the LCU. You are in some ways the Scarlet Witch of the KPCU.

In many ways, because I'm really a part of Phase 4. You know what I mean? This is certainly Phase 4 of Katy Perry and I being the star of it. Katy Perry and the multiverse of madness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I did get the job through Chaos Magic. I can't talk about how I got it, but it was

Chaos Magic. It can only be described as Chaos Magic. For Mitra to be my vision is really very fitting yeah Mitra is your vision Agatha all along the staying power that this will have song of the summer

oh my god I can't wait for everyone at Reese to be blasting it from their fucking speakers this summer oh yeah and I'm gonna be and also think about think about oh this is so nerd this is so the things i get nerdy about that's christian aniston lopez no no well i loved i loved that it was them and my favorite one is the um the 90s one which is like um what is it uh you're making

it up as we go along i just thought that was such a good parody of a song from that time. And I also love that the do, do, do, do motif, that the like thematic motif appears in all of the songs. So that's the kind of shit that I like to nerd out about. I watched this really cool. I watched this YouTube video and it was just talking about that. Can't wait for the Agatha All Along Thunderpuss remix. That's exactly what I was saying.

It's just like, there's so much opportunity there. And to know that Katherine Hahn is going to have a number one dance chart hit. Absolutely. I'm in the studio working on it now. I'm going back to my DJ days, and I'm going to remix that track. Yes.

Thrilling. Yes. Oh, you are the person to do it. You're the person to do it. I'm actually not. I DJ days and I'm going to remix that track. Yes. Thrilling. Yes. Oh, you are the person to do it. You're the person to do it. I'm actually not. I don't have the time or the inclination. I also just want to point out,

I pointed this out on Instagram, but I am obsessed with the fact that Jane Kaczmarek and the cast of Malcolm in the Middle are part of the MCU. That, that like Jane Kaczmarek could have disappeared in the snap after Thanos. Like, like, like, like, you know, it's like, it's a 50, 50. She exists as have disappeared in the snap after Thanos. Like, like, like, like,

you know, it's like, it's a 50, 50. As an actress in the world. Exactly. That's what I'm like. That's what I'm saying.

Can I ask a question of the two of you? Who do you think would have disappeared in the snap? I would have, I would. Yeah, he would have. And then it would have been like the, Oh my gosh.

So Bowen would have disappeared in the snap. And then it just would have been like the, Oh my gosh. So Bowen would have disappeared in the snap. And then it just would have been the, the grief of the public would have been so overwhelming. No, no, no, it's true. There would have been,

even though 50% of the population like leaves, there would have been a huge public funeral for Bowen. It would have been a Bowen size hole in the world. Exactly. And I've always, there would be some people on twitter that said that they wish it would have been me oh my god wait okay i have i have to ask the same question about bros and our friend fran torado between the two of you who would have disappeared would either of you have we both would have or or neither of us would have okay that's beautiful or no it's more likely that i would have and he would have worked really hard to

fix everything and then i would have gotten back and been like whatever yeah good for you okay that's the thing too is like i i would i would be tireless in the crusade to sort of get bon yang back on the planet. And then he would get back and he'd be like, oh God, I'm so tired. Like since I've been back, like I'm so stressed out. My schedule is so full. Everyone wants to do interviews and I'm like too tired. Too tired culture.

And I'd be like, are you fucking kidding me? I've been grieving for years. Girl, I didn't tell you to bring me back. I was fine. I was fine off in the soul stone whatever, like floating around being magical dust. Also, if I had to go, I would love to go

in the snap because it looks like it doesn't hurt at all. They're just kind of like, Elizabeth Olsen dying in the snap looks like fucking orgasm. She was like looking at the sky like yes, death take me. But when you come back, honey, talk about a reveal. Oh yeah. Talk about a shock. Like when Monica Rambeau came back in the blip,

whatever they're calling the reverse snap, I guess they call it the blip, and she was just like, what? And then she has to realize her mom was dead? Girl, snap me again. I'd rather go back to the snap. Come on, that was sad, yeah. Too sad, I think.

Too sad. Okay, so after I go, usually Bowen goes. So Bowen, do you have a... I have something. I don't think so, honey. Yes, I remember you Too sad. All right. Okay, so after I go, usually Bowen goes. So, Bowen, do you have a... I have something. I don't think so, honey. Yes, I remember you said you did have one. Okay, so Bowen Yang, this is your I don't think so, honey, and your time will begin now.

I don't think so, honey. We're a year into this pandemic, and people still are fucking around on Zoom being like, what are my audio settings? How do I change my output? You're a bitch. No, you're a bitch huh no you're a fucking bitch because you're a fucking bitch and i would never do this to you no you've done it

many multiple times no i haven't i've been called my ass out no you haven't no you're not you stupid bitch okay and this is not even just you i've encountered a lot of people recently who were like who are very zoom illiterate and i'm this is this this does not include the people who don't have access to technology or don't have any proficiency with that. I'm talking about people who've been using the same software for a year now and still not knowing how it works. You have to start,

like you catch up to the baseline. All I'm saying is catch up to the baseline so that you don't have to waste any time so that we can start this podcast on time or a meeting on time. I'm sick of it. I need everyone to learn how to adjust their inputs and outputs in their audio. And that's one minute. What a superior ugly.

I don't think so, honey. That was all of a sudden. And it was so funny how we said in the beginning of this podcast that bone was hot. You look so ugly doing that. I don't think so. You look toe up ugly. You look like ugly doing that. I don't think so. You look toe up ugly. You look like the Joanne Trattoria taste bitch. And it was disgusting.

And I spit it out into the trash. That's what I say to you. I feel very uncomfortable because I also had Zoom issues when I came in. So this. No, but Rose had resolved hers immediately. Please. No, that's not true that's not true but to but but to just take a peek behind the curtain here we actually had to have a microphone

taken to rose's house okay because rose didn't even have the mic your um producer is amazing she came with her incredible very cute dog to my apartment i got to i got to pet the dog a little bit it was overall today looking cute i did feel very important having a mic hand delivered to me absolutely and i just think it's so superior and very dnc energy of bowen yang he is a centrist to sort of say these things about um um, you know, technical proficiency. It's like, okay. Yeah.

Everyone, everyone just figure it out. We've had a year to learn this. And Bowen actually wants to say he is endorsing Andrew Yang for mayor. So, um, that's exciting news on the podcast. He's excited.

He's so excited to endorse Andrew Yang, who currently I think is He's stuck on the 125th street On the A trying to get to the Bronx But otherwise he was going to come on At the end of the podcast but he couldn't make it to Couldn't make it to the internet because he's stuck On the A train trying to get to the Bronx, New York

So best of luck to him He does have Bowen's endorsement And I think it's time for You're the andrew ying of zoom you're the andrew ying of zoom you don't know your fucking way around you're don't ever don't ever do that to me again you say that you're an angel to me all the time you were i am pure beelzebub incubus to me just now what you said that's that's really sad that you would have to use the word beelzebub as a negative when we have a witch here.

Okay? So you're just ass backwards and look ugly. Okay. So anyway. We have Rose Damu. This actually is, let's get to the important shit here. I also want to say before we do this, I really appreciate that y'all pronounced my last name correctly from the jump. Oh, with the Damu.

Damu. Yeah, people really usually don't get that it's like domu um and i always try to explain no it's like you're saying i'm going to dom you dom you that's what makes it so powerful yeah so thank you for that love it um that's you you really are you really are allies i want to say that i came in here not being sure. I really thought, this might be rough. This might be rough. This could be a tough interview. And then I feel like you said you welcomed me in here

and said, this is where you're meant to be. Yeah, and it is. And we earned our allyship stripes. You did. Well, you're both trans now. Thank you. Yes, you will. And no, I don't mean honorarily. I mean, there are your producers coming to your individual

homes with vials of estrogen for you to inject. Yes, yes. I'm happy about it. And it's, and no, this is, and it didn't take you to confer that onto us. Like, this is who we are. Yeah. Okay. Alright, so look, this is, we are yeah okay all right so look this is after rose has truly

domed us she's gonna dom you oh my god the reader with i don't think so honey and it's time to start that rose dom use i don't think so honey right now i don't think so honey wine are you gonna tell me that you're gonna take one of nature's most bountiful fruits the beautiful grapes and squash it and stomp on it and let it ferment until it turns into this vinegary acidic alcoholic beverage are you kidding me you couldn't let it become a beautiful raisin or turn it into some nice grape juice or just eat it as it fucking came from nature. You have to let it turn into alcohol so you can get wasted. And people are always telling me, oh, you're not drinking the right type of wine. You should drink white.

You should drink red. You should have them reload. You know what? White gives me a headache. Red gives me heartburn. They both give me a horrible feeling and i don't want to drink them ever again 15 and people who base their whole personalities around loving wine like wine culture i don't i don't think so honey wine culture get a hobby like build a model train set

um watch one division i don't know do something else i don't think so honey wine and that's one minute and can we just say thankful for you i have done one on specifically prosecco for the exact same thing you said like yeah if you're gonna order a prosecco you might as well just order a fucking terrible headache i i i don't i famously don't like alcohol generally but at least like liquor i you know, you can like mix it with something, whatever, but wine. And also it's over fast. Yeah, but like wine is disgusting.

I think this also kind of stems from, I once drank like eight glasses of Manischewitz at a Seder at my grandparents' house and threw up all over their bathroom. But wine is disgusting. And just like, like wine culture. The culture, yes. That's what, yes. The culture. It's snob culture.

It is snob culture. If anyone ever asked me out on a date in the before times and they're like do you want to go to a wine bar? Do you want to go get a glass of wine? I have a really lovely Shiraz at home. Do you want to come over and drink it? No, I don't think so.

The phrase lovely Shiraz, I would be like you want to come over and drink it uh no i don't know the phrase lovely Shiraz i would be like you need to go to jail that's where you need to go wine in my transgender home i don't think so no way no way that's it's just you know what it is it's it's an it's exactly what you said it's an excuse for people to sort of gallivant about and pretend they're interesting. And pretend they know something about something when really all they're doing is getting drunk. Sure, sure. Now, I think grape is one of nature's best fruits. Grape is one of the most iconic fruits. Absolutely.

Oh, yeah. And there is this weird... She's that girl. She's that girl. She's that girl. She's the moment. There's this weird... She is the moment. She's got a point.

Now, I think there's this crazy anti-raisin sentiment bubbling up right now. Are you noticing this? People are really hating on raisins in recent years. I'm serious. I haven't noticed a surge

towards anti-raisin. Stupid. No, there's anti-raisin culture happening. Oh it's dangerous, and it is stupid because raisins are some of the best food that exists. It's invading our schools, and children need to be educated that raisins are a delicious, healthy snack, and grapes, seeded or otherwise, healthy snack. Yes. And grapes, seeded or otherwise, are delicious. Two words for every reader listening right now.

Raisin Bran. Name another legend. You cannot name another legend. No, and don't come to me and don't come to me with your Honey Nut Cheerio bullshit. Baby, you want fiber?

She's serving you fiber for days. Fiber you want fiber? She's serving you fiber for days. Fiber down. Raisin brands create power bottoms. Oh, and Raisin Brand, yes, that's true. And also, she's giving you a texture medley in your mouth. The mouthfeel on Raisin Brand, unmatched. She's saying I'm not just one thing.

Topped only by, like, what is it? Honey nut bunches of oats? Girl, I don't even know about that. I love, I love, I love a textured cereal if I'm going to have a cereal.

Yes. And Raisin Bran really, she is the blueprint for all these other hoes. She is the blueprint. It's actually Rural Culture number 70.

Raisin Bran? Raisin Bran? She is the blueprint. She is the blueprint for all these other hoes. number 70. Raisin Bran. Raisin Bran. She is the blueprint. She is the blueprint for all these other hosts. For all these other hosts. And I also would like to commend you for being brave enough to talk about the violence that goes into wine preparation. Because it's a lot of stomping, plucking, juicing, you know, processing. It's really, it's not discussed.

When I saw Lucille Ball stomping on those poor, innocent grapes, I mean. Violent women. That was the first trauma I experienced. Truly. Yes. I, honest to God, I didn't know wine was made like that until that episode of I Love Lucy

came on the TV at Nick at Night. Oh, Nick at Night. Nick at Night. I mean, we could go on for two more hours when Rose has her super villain movie. The cold open is going to be her watching Lucille ball. Stop. But my super villain movie, I will be an actual villain. This will not be like,

this will not be like, this will not be an apologist rewrite. It will be a straight up villain origin story. Yes. Thank you. 100%. 100%. I don't want any redeemability in my girls.

And the premiere party, no wine. No. Thank you. Just cold hard cereal. Raisin. Raisin bread. And little shot glasses. And lobster.

Because you know what you're... Let's not pretend're let's not pretend let's not pretend we're at Rose's you know premiere party for the super villain origin movie

everyone's bottoming after so you have to be eating raisin bran to fiber up yes come on come on

I see it all I see this happening I see it all I'm looking in the venue see you there see you there in 2024. Yes. Wow, that's quick.

It's right around the corner. You're in pre-pro. Yeah. We're casting. Because I would imagine it's got a budget. A budget and a half. These superhero movies, they got a budget and a half. They got a budget and a half.

Look. Y'all, this episode, like we said last week, Rose is taste. Taste-a. And you know that it was crack-a-lack and when you look over at the timer and it's beyond two hours. Come on. I want to say again, I'm just like so grateful to be here and you both

really have saved my sanity during quarantine, especially the part where I've been super isolated. Like it really just like, there are nights when I just listened to this podcast and I don't feel alone. And that is, that means such a wonderful thing that you give to people.

So thank you for that. Rose. That means truly the world coming from you. We, we have loved you from afar for so long. And then like, and now I just feel like, I don't know. We're loved you from afar for so long. And now I just feel like I don't know.

We're all pals within our circles. It's so lovely. We're sisterhooding. You know, Bo and Yang, we do in fact end every episode with a song. We do. We do.

I killed my fall breath. I started so low. I started so low. Because, you know, that was crazy because you know what I was going to do? Dorothy. Which is like very the opposite vocally of where you went. Very the opposite vocally of.

Very East Coast, West Coast. I don't know, Dorothea. That's going to have to be something that changes before next week when you want to do a track by track of Evermore. Oh, West Coast. I don't know Dorothea. That's going to have to be something that changes before next week when you want to do a track by track of Evermore. Oh, goddamn. Well, tune in next week to see if Bo and Leigh-Anne learns a single word to the album Evermore. Bye.

Bye. I'm Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Tarika Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue

Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy, Elian

Gonzalez, was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Eliane Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists.

I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football.

Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age old question what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're gonna find out Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.