Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "The Protagonist" (w/ Heather Gay)

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

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This is an I-Heart podcast, Guaranteed Human. On this week's episode of Next Chapter, I, T.D. Jake, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award-winning actor and cultural icon for a conversation about change, identity, and the moment everything shifted. I mean, I don't take any credit for it. It's nothing I did as special. know, then knocked down a few pegs and recognize it, but I just didn't put me first. I just put God first, and he's carried me. Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak to you.

Listen to the next chapter podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes drop weekly. Don't miss one of them. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer.

And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers, to the stuff you actually wonder about. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Podcasters, it's time to get the recognition you deserve. The IHeart Podcast Awards are coming back in 2026. Got a mic? Then you've got a shot. Every year, we celebrate the most creative, compelling, and game-changing voices in podcasting. Is that you? Submit now at IHeartPodcastawards.com

for a chance to be honored on the biggest stage in the industry. Deadline, December 7th. This is your chance. Let's celebrate the power of podcasting and your place in it. Enter now at iHeartPodcastawards.com. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment,

where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from you? I got judged, oh, horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show.

Check out Not My Best Moment with me, kept on stage on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, hey, hey, or should I say, ho, ho, ho. It's me, Matt Rogers, and in the words of another Christmas icon, it's time.

I'm back with my new nationwide tour, Matt Rogers, Christmas in December. it's time to remember when Christmas is. I'm hit in the road all of December with Henry Kapirsky and the whole band performing my album. Have you heard of Christmas, along with a bunch of other little surprises? So if you're in L.A., San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, D.C.,

New York City, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, or, yes, Orlando, Florida. I want to see your gorgeous ass. Go to Matt Rogers official.com or head to my Instagram at Matt Rogers, though, and hit the link in my bio. Until then, stream the video. album, get your look together, and get ready to deck the damn halls at a venue near you. Christmas in December, you in my heart. X-O-X-O-X-O Santa Boy. Look, man.

Where? Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las cultureistas.

Ding, dumb. Las Culturistas calling. You really spaced out your syllables there. You know, I'm really thinking about the sounds I'm making and being so intentional about them, because I'm actually reporting to you live from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Let's go. I'm in the home state of one Henrique Kierproski, and we are what?

Rehearsing for the Christmas and December tour. And celebrating Thanksgiving. You know, there are some celebrations. There definitely is breaking of bread. Oh, my favorite thing to break. One of the best things you can break, to be honest. The thing that you break and people are happy that it's broken. And that's a rule of culture number 67.

Yes. Bread, that's the thing that you break and people are happy about. Because everyone's going to be full, the best thing to be. Outside of happy, parentheses, generally. Yes. I want to check in with my girl. Are you happy parentheses generally? I couldn't be happier.

She ate that. Yeah. Let's talk about Wicked for Good. A film in which you star Fifth Billing. I said, let's get the same. Sagnam. Let me demystify some things for everybody. So the way billing works with these things is not at all commensurate with someone's involvement, importance of the movie. Hard disagree. It is a thing that are the wonderful brokers, the people behind the scenes with these deals and these

contracts, work out on your behalf. Trust and believe I was not out here fighting for billing over my incredible co-stars who inarguably do incredible, more important, more emotionally resonant work in this film. Let's just leave that there. And I'm sorry if that pisses people off. It's not my fault. It's just how the biz works. Okay?

Can I say something? Can I say something here? Can I offer something back? I can confidently say you were my fifth favorite thing about the movie. So I'm fifth billed, but Michelle Yeo and Jeff Goldblum, are whatever, like seventh and eighth, right? Yeah, but everyone knows about the with and the end. The with and the end are only given to people of great esteem.

Like, they are, basically, if you are and blank, what they're saying is thank you for deigning to do this. No matter what movie you're in, if you are in the and Jeff Goldblum in this case spot, it means thank you king. Thank you king. It's actually different cultures speak for thank you king. And your name means thank you king.

Or, and there's something very, powerful about if it's your name on the credit and then what follows is as the cowardly lion. Oh, absolutely, period. Or as Dr. Dilliman. Yes. And that's another cultural way of saying thank you, King, to Peter Dinkledge and Coleman Dominga. 100%. I would say that with is also, it's like the silver medal.

Like, if it's with Michelle Yo, it's like, thank you, queen. Thank you, really truly thank you. But also, like, you're in the cast. Jeff Goldblum occupies Rarified Air as the and and the only thing more valuable than that is of course and well yes

Okay which is of course And introducing Oh And introducing means we are ready To really say something So here's what I'll say There wasn't really that We didn't get that in this movie

But that doesn't mean there wasn't great esteem in the casting And when I say When I saw you fifth build I did the math And I said he was my fifth favorite thing. What were the four? Number one, my favorite thing

is the sex slanket. That is number one my favorite thing. And covering, and to get the PG rating, you know they shot an alternate take where Jonathan Bailey's nipples were covered. Let me tell you something. We got no nipple. We got all slanket.

I log on and I'm like, what did you want? Did you want quivering? Quivering. Cynthia Arrivo is alpha. Green? Do you want her quivering with the towel in front of her, dropping the towel like she's Kate Winslet and Titanic? No, you need this to be PG. It's wicked, you absolute freaks. You absolute freak? Also, this- You want to see thrust? This bitch has been living in a tree

for the past 12 tide turns. She is cozy. She's comfortable. She's cold. She's out. There's no infrastructure. She's comfortable. She's comfortable in her skin, green. Cozy with who she is slanket. Ben down. Ben. Out. Rewrite it, Beyonce. No, I'm saying. And then she topped Fierro, pegged his hole. You know it happened.

If Johnny had his way, rewrite the script. So that was number one. What an amazing premiere that was in New York. I was so happy you were there. Oh, my God. That was the biggest premiere that I think I'll ever go to. It was really so major. I mean, they just, they go for it because it is a spectacle.

Wait, can I say my other? Top five things. Yes, I'm just right. And then you give me a BTS fact about all of them. Okay. So one was a sex blanket. Two, Ariana Grande and Cynthia Arrivo at the doors. Yes.

For good into the doors, I swear, I think of you every single time. I really am powerless to that song and that moment because I just think of you, my best friend. My best friend. And I was sitting across the aisle from you at the premiere. And we were sort of apart. And I was like, girl, who can see? say. And I was, because I was a couple rows behind you across the aisle, and I kept glancing over

at you during that song. I didn't want to look back because I didn't want it to be too emotional. I didn't want to go off so hard. I was very emotional. I know. I love you so much. I went off for the both of us. I love you so much. Okay, so that's the door. Oh, okay. BTS, quick, BTS fact about that. There's a lot of chatter about how that was, quote, improvised because that was, that was said in this, that was said maybe in an interview in passing. So there's, I guess, that, let's just clear

something up, there's no way to, like, improvise that, a shot like that, right? No, no, no, no. What, I think what is maybe being lost is that it was found in rehearsals. And there's a couple of things get lost, so this is, this is understandable. There's a kind of a sort of cost. So, like, I think Ari, Cynthia, and John,

M. Chu, and Alice Brooks, the amazing, amazing cinematographer, I think they, the four of them kind of found that together. And so I think somehow the word improvised got thrown in, and that just really confused people. So that that's actual BTS. Well, all I saw about it was Ariana saying that there were

certain parties and listen in filmmaking there's always going to be certain parties it's actually rule of culture number nine in filmmaking there's always going to be certain parties and certain parties wanted the scene cut like after they saw a cut and it was fought for and eventually

it stayed in and I'm so happy they did because to me that's the point that's the story that's kind of the point you know what I mean so that number three a little bit of Ariana Grande peaking out during, thank goodness, which I think is a conscious choice.

Oh, yes. When all the confetti freezes in the air and Ariana as Glinda has her private moment, which, by the way, is one of my favorite things about the entire Wicked score is that moment in thank goodness. And I thought that part was so nailed. And I loved that the moment got so personal that I think as a little bit of a nod,

a little bit of Ariana Grande came out in the voice and the vocals. Yes. Like, it wasn't as resonant and performance. and she killed that. And I'll put her under my whole three. Like, killed the entire movie. Kill the entire movie. Killed the entire movie from the second she heard she got the part

until the second she finished it. What did she say? She was going to take such good care of her. And then number four, I'm going to guess, no good deed. You know, no good deed. The fact that Cynthia can still, you don't really get how far she is pushing it vocally and how I'm sorry, but no one else could do it like her.

Because no one could take it to the vocal places it goes. That song is also so difficult to learn to sing, and I got to go with them again last night. We saw it again, and we watched No Good Dean, and we all just looked at each other and beamed because that song is so fucking good. And Cynthia, no one can sing it like that and hold that stardom on screen.

No one. 100%. Nobody. And to end on a wide with the monkeys and Kamko in the background, there's showing a lot of, a lot of space, holding space, as it were, in that shot, and you can still hold the center. Yeah.

And I think... And number five is me. Oh, sorry. Number five is you. No, you wanted to slip something else in there. No, I know what number five is, because I came here with my top five. I thought fifth build my top five.

Fanny, again, first of all, Mrs. Morrible, I know that was improvised. That was, well, that was improvised, and no one, we did not rehearse any of that, trust and believe. Did she just accidentally say Mrs. Morrible? Bronwyn, bless her heart, I fucking love you. She is incredible. Let's give it up for Bronwyn James, everybody. Legend. The shen, shen to your Fannie.

Hey, girl, I see you. I know what it's like to stand next to this. bitch on his left at all times. And I felt represented. We switch sides every now and then, me and her. Sometimes. And you and I switch sides as well. But you're just comfortable on the right. You just want to be on the right.

Sure. I know this about you. That was improvised. She said, Mrs. Can I get you anything, Mrs. Morrible? And then, of course, I had to, I had to check her. Mrs. Morrible? She's not married. Shout out, Fanny. Today, on the date of this recording, Sunday, November 23rd,

is the last performance. of Cajé Kennedy, the Fanny in Wicked for the past three years on Broadway. I got to meet her at a Tai Tee a couple years ago. It was so... Stop. Best place for Fannies to meet is Titee. Fannie. That's a little culture number 50. The best place for Fannie's to meet is Tite.

I have never seen so many fannies than when Titee is popping off. Oh, it's all fannies. But I got to meet her then. She's incredible. And then tonight is her last night on Broadway after three years of doing... Oh, major.

So, so amazing, so proud of you. What a work ethic. What a schedule. What a talent. Love you, Cajet. So, so, so cool. Well, congrats to the whole team because the movie was a huge fucking hit.

Of course it was. Of course it was. I can't wait to see it be made into a theme park specifically in Epic Universe, which, by the way, is popping off filing permits. They're expanding, girl. They said, let's make the...

What are you seeing? I'm seeing things. Let's just say, like, you know, I've had to go to my little coping mechanisms, and you know that one of them is going on like the theme park blogs and checking construction.

Yes. It's a soothing thing for me. I love this. During a stressful time. And so, a stressful but good time. But like... Yes, stressful but good.

Okay, so you're seeing the permits. Yeah, I mean, I think, unfortunately, they're going to go kind of ham on Harry Potter. Right. But we can hope for some stuff. I want to see Zelda get built, and they have the rights.

Well, I think they're going to wait for the movie to come out and then see it. And then the first look stills have been released, and it looks very, very interesting. A lot of melding of different eras of Zelda. You got Breath of the Wild, Zelda. Like, Zelda is in her Breath of the Wild geish,

but while Link is in his, like, Twilight Princess Geish, it's very, I think we're gonna see something very new. I guess Breath of the Wild would be what you'd want to see, right? Yes, because it's the most recent, and it kind of has the most, feels the most cinematic in a lot of ways. Like, it's just, the scoring is very minimal. It's like, I think they can, do really interesting things with a filmed, like a very Japanese, but still Western, quote, unquote,

like, amalgamation. Like, there's something just so profound about those games. Like, I would really love to see that be adapted, but maybe, maybe that's too much to ask, because it is, like, a fucking 70-hour game, and how can you distill that to two hours? But we'll see. That is very exciting. What else in the culture? Well, I was just going to say, like, this world of Zelda that you describe.

Yes. Would it be possible to be on a boat that flies, like a flying boat? Could have, you know what I'm saying? Because I think that's what I want the Zelda ride to be. I want to fly a boat through Zelda. I'm trying to think. There are flying things in Sky and Sword.

Just say it's possible. Just say it's possible. It's very possible. You will fly on a Zonai device, which can be made into a boat. Do you think that if we dream it, it's possible? Really answer? Yes, but it depends. Oh, I hate trepidation with which you respond,

but I asked a question I should have been prepared for bold answers. My trepidation is not, cannot be held against your, your naivete. My God. That sentence has never been more true. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It did not feel good to say. I have thought of myself as naive for like all week. Isn't that such a gorgeous name?

Why are you naive? Okay, so I'm going to speak on something. I was naive to think that I could just like post photos of Fraser and I and that people wouldn't be like, oh, it's a hard launch. But I was just so excited that I met the most wonderful person and I was just like posting about my life. And like then suddenly it was like, Oh, just Jared.

So I guess I was naive because I wasn't exactly ready for, like, any attention in that regard because I didn't think people would care. You're not thinking about that. You're not thinking about the attention. No, I was not. And so, but now that it is out there, I feel I do, I don't, I recognize that some people listen to this podcast now, as it's gotten a little bit more popular and are just like, oh, the guests or whatever. But, like, I do feel like we've had listeners for a very long time. And so I'm not just going to, like, not bring up. Of course.

I'm definitely dating Fraser. He's definitely the best. The best. And Bowens met him. I love him so much. And that seems to be the common refrain amongst all of our friends. And so that's that, you know? I adore the boy.

He's wonderful. I love him. And also that will lead me to BravoCon because this is the Heather Gay episode. This is the Heather Gay episode. Our true, true bestie that we made in Can. But I do want to say, just some BronvoCone. things, because this is, because people from Bravo are going to be listening. Yes. Yes.

Or bravo fans. Bravoholics. I ran into Melissa and Joe from Jersey. I think the Teresa thing is real. I think that that is genuinely a thing that they're doing like off camera. I don't know what changed. Congrats to Gia Judice. She won special forces.

I want to say congratulations. That does not sound easy to me. The sentence blank won special forces. I'm on my feet clapping. I'm impressed. I'm impressed. And I met Dolores. You met, oh, my God, you two are kindred spirits. And that is a wonderful woman, a wonderful person, wonderful war. She put her arm around me and she said, you get me.

And I was like, let me tell you something. I do. I was like, you remind me of. And she goes, I know all your aunts and cousins growing up. She's like, I understood when you said that, like, you really get me. I was like, I'm walking arm in arm with Dolores. Miss Catania, she's, ugh. Well, Traders winner, Dolores Catania.

What was the thing that she did with What's Her Face? It's like she got Marge to text Dolores while she was talking to... She texted Marge, yeah, something Jackie had said. Marge texted Dolores something Jackie had said about her while Dolores was talking to Jackie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Immediately was like, you said this in the most like, oh, I wish I had that. And I will... If I am confronted in that situation, I will pull it Dolores.

She is... Dolores is fab. And I think I publicly on video sort of like gawked at you or just sort of balked at you saying that Dolores is your favorite house. I was like, Dolores, and I do take that back. She makes total sense. I think you were just surprised because the thing is like I'm so lived in with Dolores. I don't feel the need to be like mentioning all the time. Like, oh, and by the way, I love Dolores.

Like, Dolores is my family. And sometimes family business is private business. Yes. Like sometimes family, and I'm going to raise my voice. Sometimes family business is private business. My God. You're lived in with Dolores. I am incredibly lived in in Sanji.

Girl, I literally, when I think of you two interacting, I see so much more than, I think I see like a travel show. Yes. I think I see like, I would do it in a heartbeat. I see real collapse between you and Angie. I was texting her as I was watching her fucking finger nails. fall off or whatever it was on the yacht. Remember, like, when she was in the costume and, like, she, like, slammed the door on her finger?

I mean, yes, the pain. I felt, I felt it. I felt the pain for, we are connected. And I texted, I was like, Angie, this is the hardest thing I've seen in a long time. Yeah. Watching you in pain like this is very hard on me. Yeah.

And she was very touched by that, and I think we grew even closer. Honestly, she's such a warm angel. Hmm. Just like Heather Gay, I will be on watch. Live with Heather Gay. The day after Jen Shaw is released, or the day before Jen Shaw is being released.

You know it's going to be a topic. And I feel like people are going to be watching that app because, by the way, Salt Lake is fully on fire. Incredible. Fully on fire. Bronwyn is a favorite of mine. I love Bronwyn. Yeah, I have to say, like,

this stuff with her husband is becoming really compelling to me. Absolutely. I'm just like, I'm just like, I can't, I need to find out where this go. With Todd, with the mom, unfortunately, that mom... Yeah. I mean, I don't want to comment on the situation too much because it's...

It really... Especially after BravoCon, it's like, these are people. No, 100%. You know what I mean? And by the way, Bronwyn, one of the coolest people there. Of course. Definitely. Very chill vibe. Always looked really great.

Brom was one of the coolest people there. And also, all of the Salt Lake ladies are... They're legends. I met Marisol. Oh! I mean, come up. I got to see some of my faves. I ran into Gina, my Long Island girl.

Oh my God, you and Gina. Wendy being there was crazy. And now there's even more. 40 credit cards, aliases. It's really tough. Not looking good. I feel for that. I feel for those children most of all.

I feel for both of them, too. Well, this is our episode with Heather Gay. We recorded this a little while back. So, we are, you know, Matt and I are not operating from a place of being totally caught up to the below deck. crossover, what happened with Meredith and Brittany on the plane, obviously. But we are, we do mostly just, like, shoot the breeze on Cann and just getting to know each other in the last few months and how special that's been. We do love Heather's one of us, you know what I mean? Love Heather.

She's a good time. She's a good person. Like, she's just, yeah, we love, and we think you're going to love this. You just said the words, Meredith on the plane, and I got so stressed, Fumbling for my beta blockers. Like, please. No. Anything to calm myself. That's the kind of television. We didn't even talk about pluribus next time.

Let me catch up. Oh, wait. Say what you want to say. It is incredible. A lot of chatter about how it's like doing the Vince Gilligan thing of having an amazing pile. Oh, no, not the Vince Gillian thing. But it's just like the thing recently where it's like things have an incredible pilot and then they kind of like peter off.

But I'm like, that's just, I think that's just, I think that. that's just TV. I disagree. I think Pluribus keeps the ball in the air in a very, very cool way. Like, I'm really interested to see where this goes. It takes big swings. Yeah. One thing about it is, that is not Vince Gilligan's reputation. No, I was going to say that is not his reputation. Breaking Bad did not

pop off with the pile and then simmer down. That, I would argue, got better as it went. It got so good I had to tap out because of stress. And also, Better Call Saul, I mean, I was always told, like, oh, Ray Seahorn, Ray Seahorn for Better Crawl. And I was like, I just wish that Better Call Saul was something that

gave me a little bit of a chub, but never. Sure, that's okay. Pluribus. Pluribus? Pluribus. Pluribus. It is very special. I'm really enjoying it.

It has something to say about, like, a lot of things. You can really graft on a lot of things about the current day onto it. Anyway, enjoy it. We'll talk about it when you're caught up. Yeah, we'll see you in a few weeks. We'll check in again before the E-O-Y. For now, enjoy this episode with the one and only, Heather Day. What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream,

and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arness, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe, most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just, like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story. From plening canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways.

On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life. The moments it has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like hours on screen. This is the story of how one-man's spotlight lit the path for so many others

and how we carry his life. legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama. That's part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health. And I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their faces hanging off, or they've broken a bone.

Depends which bone. Well, that's true. Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom. You mean sleep? Yeah, something like that, Jordan. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between.

Men's health is about more than six packs in supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection. We don't just want you to live longer. We want you to live better. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Podcasters, it's time to get the recognition you deserve. The IHard Podcast Awards are coming back in 2026. Got a mic?

Then you've got a shot. Every year, we celebrate the most creative, compelling, and game-changing voices in podcasting. Is that you? Submit now at I-Hart. I heartpodcastawards.com for a chance to be honored on the biggest stage in the industry. Deadline December 7th. This is your chance. Let's celebrate the power of podcasting and your place in it.

Enter now at iHeartpodcastawards.com. What up y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from him? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo. Somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes.

Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head. We made a mistake. The deal fell through. We're embarrassed. We failed. But this podcast is about that and how we made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like, we got into the small talk, and they were just like, so what do you got?

What? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no. What? Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kevin on stage, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcast,

YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. Look, man. Where? Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture?

Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las cultureistas. Ding dong, Las Coulteristas calling. It's a day that's been in the making. Hmm. It's crazy to say like, well, we connected in the south of France. Dot, dot, dot.

Meaningfully connected in the south of France at a convention. And then we... CamCon. At CamCon. Cam, Cam, Cam. Cancon. I'm so sorry. A convention in Cannes.

That's right. And struck up a true genuine friendship. And then she shows up to the Culture Awards. Slays it Crushed Crushed They were the most The biggest stars

The biggest stars in the room Well yeah Kristen Whig does her Comes in for rehearsal She does her thing She sees all these plays Goets oh yeah This person's here

This person's here Freezes in her tracks The Salt Lake City girls are coming I said everyone Except Whitney Who's touring in Australia Just to let you know How big the lives have become

They're touring in Australia Touring in Australia At the Awards Here they're everywhere I mean, this is a historic episode, correct me if I'm wrong, our first in-person housewife, in-person guests of a current housewife. Yeah, I think you're right. We've obviously had housewives on before, but this is breaking new ground, and I couldn't

think of anyone better. No, because I think that we've been on record as saying that Salt Lake City is the girl. She's the one. John Oliver went on Colbert and even kind of espoused to the audience the ways. in which it is Shakespeare? Yeah, you start seeing it cross over. We actually were just in P-Town and we re-watched season two's

what we can only call what goes down in the beauty lab parking lot. It doesn't stay in the beauty lab parking lot. It's all over television and television history. But that is minute-by-minute perfect television. I would agree. And it continued to be. New York Times bestselling author

of Bad Mormon and Good Time Girl, star of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City from the beginning very much the... And I think that everyone would agree, very much the protagonist of the... show. Mogul, Beauty Lab and Laser. I'm dying to go. Oh, we're going. I want to get an Ulthera treatment there. And actually, I want a little bit of a consult on the episode. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and I'm not scared of it. I'm not scared of it either. Let's do it. This is... I say fearfully.

This is our truly dear friend. We love her. The one, the only. Heather Gaye! Your own Luskulch! I am so honored to be on Luskulch. Never thought this day would come. But it does feel like a final, it's like important that it's happening now. I think my phone is ringing. Well, what could they possibly be saying? Angie Katsanevis is calling. You got to pick up the phone. Pick it up and put it on speaker.

Put it on speaker. Hey, Ange. Oh, she hung up. Damn, so wishy-washy that one. Listen, she probably panicked. She's on right now. She probably realized that. And we want her on too for the phone call.

Angie Kay is an incredible friend, an incredible housewife. but also recommended before the sizzle reel by me and on my behalf. And I recommended her year after year until she finally was on there. Which was what? Season three they brought her in? Season two, they revisited and she came on as a friend. Season three, she was a friend and then like full time, yeah. Yeah.

But you knew from the beginning. Yeah, she represents such a huge part of Utah and of Salt Lake City specifically, the Greek community. And she has been exactly who she is since she was 15 years old. sitting like reverse on her desk in Mr. Carter's math class like with a scrunchy on top of her head, entertaining all of us not knowing a single answer to a single math problem.

And me being so glad I was in a lower math class so I could just have fun and make friends and still pull an A. Yes. But this was the same math class you're saying? Yeah, this is 10th grade Mr. Carter's math class. But then clear this up because wasn't the narrative on the show that you guys did not get along in high school?

No, the narrative on the show is that she hurt my feelings by coming on the show is Lisa's friend and Jen's friend And that is real Yeah, that is salty So the first scene I had I was like I don't like her

And I'm not gonna accept it And look where we are now So then we like But you know What we You know The true nature of our relationship superseded kind of all of that

show BS You know that happens It's a weird thing You can tell I mean it was a great moment Like we were getting ready for the Culture Awards. It was the night before

and I was really wracked with nerves and I remember Melissa and I went back to the hotel and I look across the lobby and there's Heather and Angie coming in from like, I don't know where you guys have been. You guys have been out

the night before the Culture Awards having so much fun, cackling, laughing, looking like peas in a pod. And I was like, see, we haven't really seen this version of Angie and Heather on the show yet. And then to watch it in real life, I'm like, oh, this is like a part of the show

I want to see, like the two of you. I think you will see more and more of it, you know, because as, as like the friendships change and evolve and deepen, like, we just are more comfortable, like, not hurting other people's feelings by hanging out all the time. You know what I mean? It's just, it's just the nature of it. Like, it's deepened our relationship in a way that is really, like, important to someone at this phase of life for me.

You know what I mean? Yeah. To have a high school friend. I've known her since she was. 15 years old. Yeah, the picture you paint of her is so visceral, like, sitting on the desk with the high pony, like, not knowing math. In a green and white stripe gap rugby shirt, collar popped. Rugby shirt.

So she's so of the current time in that, in that garb. But see, like, doesn't that, like, I wonder how you do with that, you know, refraction of, oh, my God, this is someone I've known since 15. Also, we're on TV together representing something about Salt Lake City. And there's just all this other stuff. and you guys just have to like perform a version of yourselves in a way that like is authentic but also like you need to like draw some connection to like that younger self of you like that that younger version of you yeah the younger version of us and I think that's what makes it so fun and and deepens our friendship is because you could put us at 7-11 we're going to be doing the

same bit you know what I mean like when we're together we're kind of it's just that energy feeds off each other and like I'm always performing I've been performing since I was in kindergarten. You know what I mean? Like, everything's more fun if it's a bit performative. Yeah, well, you've got to amp it up. Don't we know? I think you're putting the hard tea on kindergarten.

Well, kindergarten, because I... No, it's the way it's spelled. Kindergarten. I am a worst smith. I'm a best-selling author. And we know that about you. What did that feel like? Not only when it came out, but also like when Bad Mormon went on that

bestseller list. That's crazy. Yeah. Bad Mormon, the book, has been, for sure, like, the greatest jewel of all of this experience. And not only because it felt great to, like, write my story and process all that, you know, it's so cathartic. It's so therapeutic. And it was just, it felt like an incredible privilege to revisit that and, like, kind of honor the girl I was then and, like, that I was in a position now to look at it with perspective. because I tell people a lot, they're like, oh, when is he going to leave the church or when is she going to leave the church? And I'm like, it's not leaving the church is like, it's like leaving who you are. And the only way I've seen it happen for people like me is if something bigger comes along. Something bigger comes along that offers you more than what you've always counted on because that's kind of, you know, ambition, the human spirit, like the drive to exceed.

and like housewives came along and offered me more than I ever anticipated I could have. And the book gave me the opportunity to explore that. And so the book has been my great connector. I meet people on the streets. It's what they love. They resonate with it. It's, we're doing a documentary about it. You know, it's like, it means so much to me.

And I was posing for an ad where I had to hold it. And so I was just kind of like reading it, laughing out loud. I love every word. I'm so proud of it. And like, I hope. it outlasts me for a hundred years, you know? Yes. I think your story, I think you talking about leaving the church being this like developmentally important, the most important thing in any Mormon's development,

former Mormon's development as they leave the church is kind of like your defining thing as like a boundary breaking person, right? It's like you broke, like the boundary was the church for a second. You broke out of that. then you're you know in order to define that though you have to get in the boundary first right and so like whether that's like housewives whenever you you know however long you do that at some point you will break out of that boundary but it requires getting in the boundary first and it requires sitting down to like write the book you know what I mean like that is part of that is the action of like breaking out of whatever box people have put you in that's exactly how it

happened when I was first approached I couldn't even read the email saying write a book called that Mormon. I mean, I shut the laptop. It was just so I would never have put my name, my face on anything derogatory about the church or about who I still wasn't sure I wasn't, you know? Yeah. And then just through time, like you start to like recognize that boundary becomes less oppressive and like less defining of your options in life, you know? And like now I couldn't think of a better title. You know, I wanted to be a good Mormon. It was very hard for me. Yeah. It's also an incredibly sticky title. You know what I mean? Like bad Mormon is a title. You just don't forget. And you not only are you explicitly saying what it is, but also as you read it, you discover like it's about self-judgment, which is like so much. And it's really, I guess it's kind of similar to coming out of the closet, right? It's like you do that. And then I think there's like a perception of like, oh, this person left the Mormon church. They left, you know, Scientology. They're coming out of the closet. They're leaving a marriage. et cetera, good for them.

That is when the work really starts because that's when you find out who you are. And I feel like one of the really compelling things about the first really few seasons and ongoing of Salt Lake City Housewives is, of course, it's a fun because it's a Housewives franchise

and La Franchise. Franchise. And this Housewives, Franchise Yum. It's in this bespoke place, Salt Lake City, which we hadn't really explored before. But what was the most compelling thing was, I think, you, you're watching you find out who you are. You know what I mean? Like seeing your limits even

with alcohol, with going out, with doing all these things. It's really very fascinating. And I wonder what you get watching it back. Well, in a way, I feel like I got back what I felt reality TV gave to me when I was living in such a culture bubble. You know, my my bubble of culture was so intact that like it took a lot to penetrate that. And reality television as a married woman was the first time that I saw examples of women that weren't Mormon dutiful wives. Like that's how inclusive my world was. And I think that it's like watching people live their lives out vicariously. And I've said it a few times, but like there's that scene when Tamara's in the back of the limo with whatever, you know, I don't remember his name now because he's named.

but she says I want a divorce Simon Simon she's like I want a divorce and like I heard her say that it penetrated my heart and I thought oh my God that would feel so good to say wow I'm watching a woman say something that I could never say I could never even think it and like watching that just became a way to like you know suddenly see beyond the world that you were expected to live in forever but that was what kind of like chipped at the veneer for you was was reality television yeah well oh so the whole point to get back i forgot i got so distracted is that like that gave a lot to me yeah so when i had the chance to be on the show and be a housewife like i knew that like no matter ugly whatever was coming like i was just going to put it all out there because i wanted to

put out into the media that gave back to me you know what i mean contribute to the forum that gave me what I needed. And what I needed was vulnerability, authenticity, and just women speaking unfiltered. And so on the show, I felt an obligation to the audience, to reality TV as a genre, and to, you know, my own opportunity.

Like, I'm here. I'm not going to, like, take it from someone else that's going to be real. You know what I mean? And I'm just going to do it. And that's like kind of the sacrifice. Like, but it's so... Humiliation abound.

you know. Well, I mean, of course, like, like, putting yourself out there is, is, quote-unquote, like, humiliating in some fashion, right? Like, even we experience a degree of that, but it's like, to have the books, plural, even Good Time Girls are a really sticky title. Like, you can't forget it. Especially because of it popping up on the show. Episode one. But I think with the books, that is such a, I mean, it's the way I feel about the podcast in a concurrent sense of, like, a show like, a show like, episode. where it's like I'm in service of something else in an ensemble and it's wonderful but then having the podcast with my best friend is like a fucking lifeline because I'm like oh I get to like make sense of things with someone I love one-on-one we bring in people we love and that is I'm sure in some sense more isolated what the book is probably yeah absolutely and it's and it's in it's it's in your zone you know but with in terms of the genre of reality TV like you know at this point that like the show and what you've contributed to it is the peak of it. Like, it is the best reality TV, maybe ever.

I really thought a couple times there should have been nominated for the Emmy. Are you saying Housewives of Salt Lake City in general? Yes. Housewives of Salt Lake City. No, I think that it's like, it's like the Housewives of Salt Lake City, I think, stands out. And I don't know if you can really feel that because probably you understand because, like, there is like a buzz around it.

And you can just see. But sometimes, like, when you're, when it's you, you can't really tell what it is that's hitting because there's this weird like what's like dysphoria almost about like what is like actually in the world and what is my algorithm telling me but like we're out here on the outside of it being like Salt Lake City feels different because it tells a new story you know a lot of the other Housewives franchise I think that what the issue is with some of them is it feels like we're not telling new stories. Yeah.

Sometimes it feels a little bit repetitive. With Salt Lake City, it's like a couple things. These are women that pass the ball where it's a true ensemble. And it feels like we're hearing new stories. And I think that that's like, like I don't recognize any of the stories being told on this franchise. And gosh, they were even playing a game with Angie K. And Demi Lovato on Watch It Happens Live, where it was, you know, Angie or Demi picking

like from each of the cast. like most likely to do this, this, that. And they just had all of your headshots and just even above the nose, above the nose. I was like, these are indelible people. They're iconic, recognizable women. And we salute the contribution.

It's perfectly cast in a way that has to be sometimes frustrating when you want to rip the throats out of your cast members. Because you know that, it's like a cast that kind of can't change. Like, sorry, Bravo. We've tried.

You know, we can't. we've you know we all think that we can evolve and change we all think we're improving and we just are exactly who we are and there's so much comfort in that to me you know like i love people that are awful and people that are great i love all people you know but i just like when they show up and i can know what to expect consistency is key and i think salt lake city brings these consistent personalities because we're authentic to who we are yeah i think my favorite moment from the premier and we were we were commenting on this was when Whitney rose admits that her business failed and it's it's that is because as a housewife there's all this like modern expectation and you know salt

like city housewives I remember they did that book like not all diamonds and rosé and salt like like housewives isn't even in that because of how new it is in the grand scheme of things like it's this like post housewives housewives show where all of you come in and like are expected to not only hit the ground running as like entertaining pop culture figures but also business people you know if you do it correctly putting in air quotes you have something outside the show for you and i thought that her sharing that it did not go well especially when such a huge part of her narrative when she was starting it was how badly it needed to succeed because justin had lost his job at the time like i think that that was a really important moment because i do think you guys are at a point where it could go in the

direction that is like, we know what we've got here. And so let's continue to produce it. Or we know what we've got here and what makes us special is the authenticity. And that felt like an authentic real moment of her being like, hi, I failed. Let's talk about it. Yeah. And Brittany, don't bring it up five minutes into the RV trip, you know. I mean, Britney's being herself too. Everyone's being in themselves. Exactly, which is why it works. And I think that we really, something that's unique about Salt Lake City is that we really are all each other has. And I don't know, I can only speak for myself, but being on the show doesn't have a lot of currency in our community, like not at the grocery store, not at the mall, not amongst our

closest friends and family. They really don't talk about it. They don't acknowledge it. Certainly with me, they don't talk about the book. You know, they don't talk about this. like they just talk to you about your children and like innocuous things like probably with Whitney it's soccer and with Lisa it's Henry you know what I mean but they don't give us any currency for the fact that we are on this show that is such a hit and that has changed our lives

so fundamentally and I think part of that keeps us like you know tight and humble and I mean humble but tight yeah and it makes the show that much more important and our our stories that much more cogent because it's, you know, it's all contained. Yeah. What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arness, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of

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It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Month, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo. Somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes. Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head. We made a mistake. The deal fell through. We're embarrassed. We failed. But this podcast is about that and how we

made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like, we got into the small talk, and they were just like, so what do you got? What? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no. What? Check out not my best moment with me, Kevin on stage on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. You have this memory of Angie, Hi Pony, Green Rugby shirt. What is your memory of us going to be going forward as you go? Oh, I've known Mountain Bone for 15. years. Yeah, what's the image? Listen, guys, Cairns Lions. Yeah. But we all can't remember a specific one because we were so

turned. Well, I mean, listen, I can remember. Can I take a minute? I mean, I know mine and I'll say it. It's me. I remember I was over with a couple of the summer house people. I turn around. I see it's you sitting on a bench, crying, and Bowen is on his knees in front of you, clasping your hands like this. And you guys are having one of the most emotional moments in humankind history and I was kneeling I was kneeling and you were talking about how it had been your first time in can since your Mormon mission and you were talking about that a lot during depressed that we were all doing together that's wild that that's wild out of that out of all places in the world that's where they sent you as someone that's then supposed to be like well-behaved

yeah one of the horniest most gorgeous places in the world and then that you randomly for this thing later years and years later when your life is totally different. You're also sent there on a different mission, which is to tell your new life story. Yeah. Crazy. And that's like I thought when I was there as a Mormon missionary, I thought I was of the world, you know, this worldly bilingual, you know, change maker. And I thought I could never be this happy because I was so indebted in the service of others. My testimony of the church was so strong. I was doing the Lord's work. I was ruining people's lives and it was for the right. You know what I mean? You were incredible Mormon. I was so, I thought I am, this is who I was

born to be and I could never be happier. And at the same time, I was miserable and it was so hard and it was soul, you know, gutting. And I, to come back there now and feel like the same person, the same enthusiasm, the same ambition, the same zest for life and for the people, but to be there on terms that were authentic to me, it just felt like, how, how did I get this opportunity? And that's what I was weeping to Bowen about. Yeah, yeah. It looks like I'm here. I'm here. You're here. And who gets to do that? I mean, I think you were also just exhuming all of these things that maybe you had forgotten about. I remember you very distinctly telling me while I was kneeling to you, you were like, I think that was when you were like, we would have to get, like, the church

told us for these missions that you would go into people's houses and within one minute be on your knees with them and pray. Like it had to be that. It's like the sales person pitch. We trained. We trained. We had conferences where we trained. We'd walk up and say, if they opened the door to us and said, you know, these two beaming missionaries, you know, in T-shirts and full dresses, we have a message of hope and love for your family. Can we come in? If they said, come in we grabbed their forearm and said can we offer a prayer and knelt down within one minute or five was it one minute within one minute get on the ground they said because and they said like most people when you kneel they're like going to kneel that's just human nature and most kind people in the world are

never going to turn down a prayer sure offer us a prayer throw us a prayer bone and be on your way but then you kneel down with them and you pray with them that they will be open to receive the message that you're about to give them. And it felt highly manipulative. But it's also at the same time, I mean, yes, just the intention is maybe manipulative. But then if you're describing, like, just offering a prayer to someone, there is, like, it's so dissonant. There is like, there is a kindness to that.

Of course. There's a kindness and love, but, like, why make them kneel? Why do it in a way that we know is a tactic to get us to stay there longer and, to, in effect, shame them for turning us out. Uh-huh. Because I'm sure that what they're arming you with is, of course, these skills, but what's behind it is the fact that you genuinely believe that what you're going to do is better their life.

Change their life forever. So that's an indoctrination. Yeah. That's you being indoctrinated in something. That's not you manipulating. It's simply, it's actually you really trying to help. Yeah. And that's where, that's why I find the church so fascinating and the culture that comes out of

the church so fascinating. And the fact that I had three daughters that I was training to be that exact version of me. And now one's living on the Upper West Side of New York City, one's at University of Miami, in a sorority. I don't even want to mention. Yeah. No, you don't go to, you're not a sorority girl in University of Miami and not raging. Exactly. And then I have my freshman daughter at Utah. And like, none of my friends' kids have even left the state of Utah. And a lot of them are married. So I have, I'm an anomaly in my neighborhood and in my community and Angie is one of my true friends from high school that is, I mean, think of that, you know, like everyone else we know is married with, and some of them are grandparents already. So that's what you're saying, like that's what tightens you. That's what humbles and tightens you.

There's not a lot of people like us in our community at all, at all. Not a lot of women business owners, not a lot of women entrepreneurs. The highest brand you can get at our Northern. is Rag and Bone. Yeah. It's a good brand. It is good. I love Rag and Bone and I love citizens of humanity, but sometimes the audience wants us to show up in something more. And we love our audience.

I do want to ask about that too, because again, like Salt Lake City being relatively new, even though it's in its sixth season, it still feels like it was born after the creation of what a quote-unquote real housewife looks like is, et cetera, what that image was born into, you know, television watching communities' heads. So when you show up and the nicest store in your Nordstrom rack is the rag and bone, which is really for men, right? Don't they really, they just kind of make more, it's more, yeah. Yeah, so they weren't even helping you.

Why so gendered, Matt? Why so gender? No, what I'm saying is just like the opportunity short, but also expectation to be as glam as Erica Jane. Like, what goes on there when, like, you. collide with the other housewives, that has to be so intimidating. Of course, I'm talking about like girls' trip, but also BravoCon and like watch what happens live and just like, you know, showing up as a housewife. How did that feel? How are we interacting with that? Well, for me,

it was like, I mean, I did everything in a stretchy czar. Every confessional is either stretchy stretchy Zara or Macy's or Dillard's, you know, prom 50% off for my first season. And that's like this set, the stage of life I was in also the clothes that fit me. So, I mean, I felt like I was doing the best I could and I admired. I had such a fandom and respect and like knowing how hard it is to like just do all of it. You know, these, there's not a lot of women over 40 thriving and doing these types of things. So like these were the first mentors in my life, like the first women that I saw get divorced and thrive that I saw not have six children and still have a fulfilling life, you know, not talk about. casual sex.

I mean, I know this sounds naive, but, like, this is the world I lived in. So everything to me was like, I mean, I didn't feel threatened. I felt like, you know, take me with you. Yeah, yeah, inspired. Yeah, inspired. And just, yeah, inspired for sure. It showed you another way. And honored.

Also embarrassed, but honored, you know, you don't want to bring them down. I don't know. I think like, I get that. Because you talked about this while we were in Cannes on a panel, And I think you were just saying, like, I saw housewives and it broke the mold on what women my age could do, what the possibilities were. And I think that is going to be true for a while for every woman in America. you know, it's like every woman who maybe is a single mom or, you know, an entrepreneur or like just is juggling all these, quote unquote, unconventional things, especially in a very conventional, conventional, conventioned place like Utah or, you know, in the Mormon church, like, you're talking about something very powerful about television and media. And I think you've like taken that mantle so well. And I think that is, I think that is why people really kind of like, are drawn to you as a housewife and they say that you are the protagonist of Salt Lake.

Because you understand, as it were, the assignment. My memory of you is, hold on, is this phone background that I still have, Heather Gay smoking a cigarette. That is you in a red dress. A good time girl. I said, I'm going to smoke and I'm going to drink when I'm in can this time. We almost got you to hook up with that guy, remember? But then we found out he was gay.

Well, they always are. Every night I hook up with this He picked you up. The redhead and I wept Because I'd never been thrust On a man's shoulder Like that before I did.

You were reaping the whole time I was pure joy Did we not have the most Spectat? We had the time Amazing time I was saying We got back

And were exhausted for weeks I took us a month to recover Oh please you went straight To Beyonce in Paris You guys Stop trying to We were in the middle of writing We were trying to put together

The Culture Awards You have to imagine We were in the middle of writing the Culture Awards Can we talk about the culture awards? Let's talk with the culture awards. I mean, what's our time frame? No, we're great.

The culture awards, you guys. That was a blast. It changed, it changed award shows forever. Stop it. It's like, it's the chapel rhone of award shows. It's your favorite award shows award show. That's the pull quote next year. The chapel road of award shows.

Having you guys there amidst all of what was happening, what I loved was... What I loved was... All the throwaway shots to me having the time of my life. Absolutely love. You think we weren't going to use that? You know what I knew we kind of did something there? At the end of it, like we're walking back in. We had taken a moment to ourselves after the show.

And we're walking back in and we see the one and only Mary Cosby. And she is in this red sort of be cloaked gown with her gloves. Full gloves. And she turns to us and she said, I enjoyed myself. And she said, my husband said, you better know who they are. She goes, and I do know who you are. Matt and Bowen She goes

We need to have a picture I was like Yes we do The fact that Mary asked Her picture with us I mean that was bestowed upon you I've known her for years

Never have I received Such honor She was like she was Throwing us some bread As ducks I was like wow It was like Queen Elizabeth Looked over

Absolutely That was not a common thing For her to do Right? No yeah That's incredible The fact that But then it's so funny

Because in the edit I was doing the edit of the show And of course We're looking for audience cutaways, et cetera. And almost every time the audience was cutting over to you guys, what I loved was how seriously Mary M. Cosby was looking at everything. She was just like, I don't know.

It did take her like a second, I think, to register what was happening. And then at some point we did win her over. But I was just like, you won her over. You win everyone over. And like, it was an incredible, incredible experience. Oh, thank you for doing it. For doing it. Like, it should happen every year. And I want third row seats right behind Ben. The plan is to try. Oh, my gosh. What is your favorite show on Bravo? Like, what is the, what is, I have two questions.

One, before we ask you the real question, who is the housewife that made you say housewives was for you as a, as a real housewife fan? And is there a show on Bravo besides housewives, whatever, that's your fave? Tamara, perhaps, as you mentioned earlier. I mean, that's interesting, but like, no, because Tamara terrifies me. That moment was so raw, and I just really appreciated her forehead. But, like, honestly, I know that said housewives could be for me. It never occurred to me. Right.

Even until the final call, sizzle reel, it still never occurred to me. But honestly, I would say Vicky Gunblsen. Vicki. Oh, wow. Vicki Gunvelson, because I feel like, I feel emotional, isn't that? Let's talk about your emotion. Yeah. she just was herself, you know, and was just obnoxious and, I mean, in the best way.

Of course, of course. And, like, got a lot of crap, you know, had to overcome a lot. But just, like, showed up, had a great business, was proud of who she was, was proud of what she wanted in her relationships, went after it, got it. You know, the whole Dawn thing was so painful, but I related to it. Right. I could see. And I just think, I just think Vicky's story is pretty remarkable. Yeah.

And she deserved, you know, that when she was in that mustard-colored velvet dress, I don't remember what she was mad about, but I'm on her side. Yeah. You know the thing about. Whatever she was mad about, she did serve that show well. Oh, absolutely. You know what I mean? I think she should still be on it.

But that's just my opinion. But the thing about Vicky is she was, it's like we say often, she was always herself. She was always herself. And it's great that she was like the O. of the OC, really the first real housewife because she, it's kind of like when Kelly Clarkson won American Idol, they hit the

jackpot, like Vicki Gunwelson being the first real housewife, the family van, they hit a jackpot because there was a there was a model for what this show was and the kind of person that it revolves around and she is Orange County.

You know what I mean? And you saw how housewives kind of evolved her, you know and it's changed my physical appearance and like the way I show up to stuff and you just you see how the process like changes you but like you know I just it's never I've never thought of that before but that's just what came to me in this moment but I bet you recognize yourself more when you look in the mirror now oh for sure absolutely absolutely like I feel like I like am in my zone and I am so like proud of the girl that like had to overcome so much more to get me here like you know

I look back and I think the courage and, like, the guts. Also, everyone hated me and was so mean to me season one and two. You know, they thought, who is this dummy? Let's oust her. You know, she doesn't represent the ground. Just like the fans or the cast. The cast. You felt like they were not rooting for you.

Oh, for sure not. Was that jealousy because you clearly were at the center? I thought it was like, I'm not going to be seeing with her. like this is beneath my level of socialization of panache and image and so yeah it was really really hard for me season one and two it's really interesting because i remember like after season one was season one was a success especially like and it really snapped in in the last few episodes and it was kind of a little bit you guys realizing there was something off with jen and then obviously season two it becomes a pop culture phenomenon but I remember watching that and it was very clear in those reunions that people had seen themselves depicted in a way they didn't expect.

Like, I think that probably a lot of people did expect to look like the protagonist of the show, which was clearly, and everyone's incredible in their function on the show. But I do think you are, your story speaks exactly to why a franchise exists in Salt Lake City. And I think that that's kind of just an undeniable, just narrative choice. Yeah. So that had to be humbling for people. And surprising in a bad way to a lot of people, yeah. Yeah. But you were someone with, who came into the show with self-knowledge,

which might not have been said for your castmates. And that was probably something that set you apart, but also like was very, I don't know, like a little bit weird for them. I think you probably just like were ahead on that. Like hopefully that's how you look at it in hindsight. Well, in hindsight, I just think, like, I never thought I would be there and they never thought I would be there. And then when I was there, everyone was just like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? Like in terms of casting at all? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You know, I don't want to make this, I don't want to relate this back to myself. But like, I relate on this level of like, I never expected to be on a show like SNL. I would always watch. I was obsessed with the show. I watched every week. But I was like, you know what? Would be a dream to be a writer. And I was and it was great. And then it took like an audience or maybe. be like some co-workers, some time to be like, oh, yeah, Bowen's here, you know, but like, there's something about sticking with it and staying. And whether or not you went over the

respective people, you at least, like, you know, you kind of appreciate the things that are intact about yourself. Like, I, like, I would not say you've changed very much since you've started on the show. You've been yourself, you know? I just think I'm seeing more now, which is a good feeling. A good feeling, but also sad. you know yeah that there's so many things that keep people from seeing who you really are wow and that's that's really really interesting and how how in a way it's like when there's a camera on you and almost like it emboldens you to like say this thing like you do get the sense like across the franchises like a lot of people started in marriages on the shows that like clearly

weren't working and a lot of people say like oh they went on the show to get a divorce maybe not consciously, but unconsciously. But it's an opportunity. It's a lifeline, you know? Like I was at the darkest, saddest point in my life when the show came around. You know, I was in a business that was failing. I was trying to build it back up. Was it failing?

Well, when I bought it was, yeah, like it was, I started out every day, like $1,000 in the red. He had taken out like a hard money loan with some offshore person I couldn't even contact, you know? I was just, so I had to like build this business. And in building it, I met a lot of people. And that's what connected me to, like, casting because I knew a lot of these, you know, hot girls getting injections. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you. But the business was a success.

And that's where I really started to, like, pull myself out. But, like, to be on television, that was never, you know. And the plan. Yeah. It was, yeah. I mean, in the plan, it was just like, you know, it was me watching DeGrossey Jr. High is like, you know, 10 year old thinking, you know, if you don't get it as a Nickelodeon kid, you're never going to get it. Of course, you know what I mean. Of course.

So do you still watch everything on Bravo? Yeah, I watch everything, and I love all of it. And I really love, I love Southern Charm. I love Below Deck. I love Captain Jason, and I love Captain Kerry. And I did Blow Deck Adventure with Captain Kerry. I was going to ask you about what it's like to be on Below Deck Adventure. It was so fun.

It was incredible. It was totally incredible. We went to Norway. Oh, that's so great. Yeah, the fjords, like things you would never see from land or even on a screen saver on your laptop. And it was really incredible. You're like, wow, this is real and not just the screen saver. I know sometimes I'm just like, this looks just like my screen saver.

It's amazing. I didn't see a lot either growing up. Like I, like we had like a working class family on Long Island. So now that I get to my adult life and it gets to go places like can, it's like so amazing. And you do take it for granted because there are so many people that don't have, even if they dreamed that don't have agency access, ability to go to all those places. Yeah. I mean, my first international trip was as a. traveling companion for a little person that needed help

like with their luggage and stuff because I wanted to see the world. Where'd you go? Can. I'm not Can't, sorry, Cancun. Cancun. Same death. Wow, that's so interesting. Cancun, yeah.

Probably similar at Cancun and Cancun. Cancun can. I wept on the white sand beaches of Cancuncun too there. I want to come back. I want to, how am I going to come back? Yeah. You know, you just have this angst and this like desire for a bigger life, but your circumstances, there's just no path to see it.

Well, and then like, your parameters change as soon as you have a kid or three kids. Yeah. Big mistake, huge. Don't do that. I'm like, you know, I mean... I just graduated.

I'm an empty nestor. I can say it. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my gosh. How does that feel? Incredible. It's my rum spring. I love it.

Yep. Was that true in Cannes? No, was Annabelle still... Can kicked it off. Kicked it off. Is Annabel went to Tampa or what? No. Annabelle went to Tampa.

two weeks after I got home from Cann. Wow. But like, Cann kicked it off for sure. Wow. And now it's like I'm being like totally intentional about it. We're really working hard. I know you've both recommended me to Raya.

I'm still on the wait list. Wait, what? I recommended you to Raya. Sam Lanski's put in a word to like the CEO. I have every person, Andy, everyone's working on it. There's something about my age group. Oh, give me.

No, no. Maybe my emotional stability. I don't know. Oh, my God. You're actually someone. I don't think emotional. As a prerequisite for Rye, I'll tell you that much. At least among them, the gay men.

But I'm not online. I just, like, that would be my first foray, but I am being totally, like, I want a date now. I don't, I didn't want to do it when I was a mom. It's just, it's a weird thing. What's a good first date for anyone out there that's listening? For all the straight guys. In a group, like, at a dive bar, like, laughing and just, like, hanging out and just, like, hanging out and, yeah, and, like, having a vibe. And then, like, for sure, going home together.

Yeah, yeah, great. Yeah. You want to have. your one night stand there. I do know your vibe. We have the same vibe. I can't believe you're asking me this. It's for the people at home. It's for the straight guys listening to Las Colch, which they are, they are out there. Are they? No, honestly, a lot of Katie's out there have said, you know, my boyfriend will sometimes just have you guys on because they'll have indoctrinated them in the

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I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash.

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Okay, let's ask you the question. Heather Gay, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? So I have like a 10,000 of them, obviously, because every time I listen, I think of one. But when I was thinking about this one, I was trying to remember like the first moment that really kind of penetrated the bubble of the culture that I was raised in because it was very, very inclusive. don't know how to explain. I was a bubble boy. Osmond's were it. I only knew people of my kind and that believed and thought, I thought the world was flat. No one told me different. Everyone

reinforced it. And I had one friend and we're still friends. Jessica Miller, shout out. She's in good time girl. She, uh, her older brothers picked us up and brought us home from school one day, which I don't know how or why my mom allowed it, but it did. It happened. And they played violent femmes blister in the sun in the car. Uh-huh. And I was probably in like third grade. Yeah. And what was the feeling? What, what?

Every part of me live up. You know what I mean? I understood none of it and I understood all of it. And like it changed like my chemistry and I thought, what is this song? What I know, like knowing I wasn't supposed to be hearing it and like I can never unhear it and I came alive. You had a mini awakening. A mini awakening.

And then we went to her house and her brother served himself a cup of peppermint schnapps with ice. He was about 16 in a short class. And said, you can have a sip if you want. I, of course, refused it because I'd already listened to violent fans. Right. You were done for the day. But, like, the first time that I had independent income and, like, the ability to go through the cassette tape, you know, whatever the store was called at the mall back then, it was like, I, like, saw it out.

I thought it was, like, illegal bootleg stuff. like that wasn't allowed. So what was the typical music that you were listening to? With the Osmans? I mean, Osmond's, of course, but like Simon and Garfunkel, you know,

my parents had great taste in, like, family music. Classic things. Classic things, yeah. I loved, but then I got turned on to Indigo Girls and Dar Williams and Sean Colvin. And, like,

I just kind of had like a deep foray and team. Sean Colvin. Wow. So is that, how are you listening to that in secret? once I started working when I was 15 at Teddy Bears Frozen Yogurt and I always had discretionary

income to buy music. He was just talking about how he moved. Maggie Moos. He worked at Maggie Moos in Utah or Colorado. What were your Colorado years? My Colorado years I left in 89. Oh, wow. So I was, it was Teddy Bears and it was Golden Swirl Frozen Yogurt. So you were a I used my experience at Teddy Bears to leverage a lead

employee position at Golden Swirl, which I stayed. Yeah, you really manipulate it. From the beginning, being entrepreneurial about it. Always, always. Yeah. So I connect with this. I remember my song was The Roof by Mariah Carey. And it was just about like the rain hitting her skin on the roof while she made out with who we found out later was Derek Jeter.

And that that was her sexual awakening. And I believe I was eight or nine listening to it. And there was something about it that I didn't need to really understand it to understand it. You know? And music is special like that. Yes, it is. And when it comes from a source and you think it's like another world, like there's another world and realm that exists that I have not yet been introduced to.

And I want to find it. And how are people even thinking to express themselves like this? Exactly, because it never would have occurred to me. Right. But that song in particular, did the brother tell you who, like, who the violent thumbs were? What this, like. No. I just like understood it.

That song is clear and occluded. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's, I just understood it. I don't know. I felt it like awakened me. Okay. I wanted to stain the sheets.

Yeah, you wanted to stain the sheets. I don't know what it means, but I knew it was bad. You know, things about stains in the sheets. Oh. They happen, you know. I don't even know why, you know. They were eating dinner in bed. Yeah, they were eating pasta.

They had arrabiata sauce all over. them. That's what it was. Who knows? It could be a million things. Let's not ask questions. Let's just listen and feel the music. But it's, you know what it is? Like that song and very in particular, we say this word a lot, serrated. Sorated. Unforgettable. Basically, it's like there it's, it's got a rough edge. I understand serrated exactly. You know? You know what I mean? Lots of ups and downs. Right. Cuts right through. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Serrated, you. You know what I mean? You've had to cut through your life. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I love that answer because it's private.

You know what I mean? It's like a very private, explicit, illicit thing and just had to rub against everything you had been told about like the way you should feel. And just that as the culture that made you Heather Geysai culture was for her is like you can you can feel the memorability of that. Yeah. And like it's tangible like this I'm not going to be able to be who I'm expected to be. This is going to be harder than I thought, you know? That is quite queer.

Oh, I feel, I have, like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like I write from a queer perspective. I really do. Like, I feel like my books have quite a queer perspective if I'm allowed to say this out of no, you are. It's about, this is what I'm saying. I'm only 50, you're, you're breaking out of a boundary. You're breaking out of something that, you know, someone else has sort of, like, boxed you

into. And now you, now you're in control of, well, I'm going to get into the box because. that's part of my process. That is part of my identity as an artist, a writer, you know, all of these things, a public figure. All these things should be, you know, I think are already driven by that idea. I'm being a little like coachie. No, I'm totally with you. And in terms of culture, I mean, think of your podcast and speaking on culture, like, isn't there something like fascinating about the fact that, like, I came out and like my only mentors of culture are housewives? Like, these are the women that, like, I am figuring.

out how to be, how to form my life after. I mean, think about when you came out, like, you have to, like, you think of who, who, what kind of person am I going to be? And I have no examples of that. I know, I knew no divorced women thriving with their own business is none. Right. And so now it's like, and I see women now that have overcome and have resilience. Erica Jane is a huge inspiration to me. The way that she is just like, reinvented and she's, you know, I just admire that like the tenacity, the resilience, the grit. Like, It is not hard out. It is not easy out there.

And it is not easy to come back from like people being really horribly cruel, you know? I feel like. I feel like also when you went on Ultimate Girls trip, one of, and that was a hard season to watch. It's so hard because you realize quickly that you're a guppy in the fish bowl. And I didn't come in thinking like, I really did come in like a fan, like excited to make fun TV with these incredible dynamics. Which is what it should be. That's how I feel about it.

Like, for me, the creative process of it is like, I am a theater kid. I grew up doing road shows and family performances and talent shows. And, like, I was a pianist. Like, this is, like, what I love to do. So, like, it seemed fun. Like, we're going to have theme nights and dinners and we're going to all give each other shade and laugh. And, like, you don't understand or expect kind of the menacing or the meanness of it. Yeah.

And I really learned, I mean, that's when I became really close with Alexi and Marisol. Really? So they are, like, I was with them on Sunday at the Miami game. Like, we are close. We love Alexia and Marisol. I love Alexei and Marisol. They are the real deal and they, they defended me right off the gate on that trip. Yeah.

And they also gave Whitney Hell for not, you know, supporting me. Like, they were true, true friends. And so I think those types of dynamics give everyone an opportunity to kind of show their true colors. Yeah. I mean, there's the mistake that I'm going to say as a non-housewife, but I'm going to, I'm going to kind You could be one so easy. It'd be great. There's a mistake housewives make

what I think Giselle is guilty of constantly, which is like, it's the way that like some people think like meanness is funny by default. Especially like when like when guys like flirt with you, like they're like they kind of like neg you a bit. Like they're mean to you and you're like, wait, no, that's not, that's not. Hate, it never works. There's not as charming or that's not winning anyone over the way you think it is.

I feel like Giselle and a certain subsect of housewives do that where they're like, let me be, let me just be nasty and cruel. And then, like, let me drum up this, like, inane drama with, like, this class-a-azool bottle. It's like, who fucking cares? That was so lame. It just also wasn't fun to watch. Do you think she would have been kinder to you if the cameras weren't rolling? And has she been kinder to you since?

Yes, she's totally kind of me off camera. We know, we're single moms with three daughters, you know, like she's, she's like, we had fun, didn't we? And I'm like, we did not have fun, ma'am. I mean, she made, like, a really nasty comment about our friend, Jill Kimbooster's, like, uh, peanut. size and then it was racist it was racist but it was just like not cool and then we were checking in with him and he was like no I thought we were totally great just like kind of an example of someone who's one way and then another which I I sometimes wonder I'm like do people think we can't tell you know but then again there she is a success on the show year after year

clearly they keep her but she's I don't know she's a six she's a success in her little fiefdom She's a success in a very limited capacity. Like, no one outside of, like, this fandom specific to Potomac gives a shit. She makes things happen, which is what I think. So, I also think, honestly, she's incredibly beautiful. She's very beautiful and indefinitely a star. She's intoxicating on screen to me. Like, she can be saying mean, mean things.

I'm just like, I mean, I don't. Is she the green eyed bandit or is Robin the green eyed bandit? But I just fall for the green eyed bandit quite a bit, which sometimes messes with me. too because I'm like, I should be prettier. I always know, no, dime a dozen, pretty people everywhere, doesn't, doesn't really work on me. It's actually real culture. Pretty people everywhere. Beauty, beauty works.

But no, it's, I always want, I always try. Like, even with the ones that I'm on record year after year, like, it's just because people act like themselves. You know what I mean? Like, and I guess you kind of learn that after a certain point. And even when you go back to shoot Salt Lake season after season, at a certain point, at a certain point, this is now the six season that's airing, I bet you've arrived to the fact that, like, you know what, this person is just always going to be themselves. When do you stop trying?

Well, I'm a, I'm never going to stop trying. You're never going to stop trying. That's who you are. I'm just a court gesture just like, plug me and accept me like me. You never even stopped trying with Jen. No. And Jen is, Jen was, you know, a force and a friend. And I love people, I sometimes say brain on fire like I love friends where they keep me on my toes and like everything they say is interesting or polemic or you know just challenging and I don't know if that's just trauma or what I don't know what that's about but like there is a part of me that thinks I can be good enough to this person that they will change and like me eventually or treat me well eventually I can't you could a therapist could tell me that's never going to happen I'd be like but I can like like I can

I can love them through it. I can't. And I know I can't, but. Your view of friendship is that it allows for the challenging stuff, the polemic stuff, the stuff where you're like, this is not, like, there's no such thing as like, this is not how a friend should talk to me necessarily? Like, is that what you mean? Like, well, it's just like, I know they're horrible, but they're hurting.

Like, I'll get the caged, I'll get the caged animal. I'll show them that they can trust me. As long as they'll get them to treat me well. As long as they don't hurt you. I think that's what as fans is frustrated. But you know how frustrating that is as a fan watching the show? Of course. That is the thing I think as a fan watching the show with you, Heather Gay,

is we just want you to know you deserve better into friendships, too. Like you fought so hard in all these aspects of your life. And then I do think there is something with female friendship where you want to believe some of these women are going to treat you better. And I remember with Jen, because obviously, you know, We're fans of all the ladies. Just for the record. Well, we wish that you would.

So with Jen, though, I mean, when it felt like you kept making excuses for her and, you know, kept up a certain ruse, with Jen now, she's going to be released pretty soon. How are you feeling about that? Just not really feeling anything, you know? Will you make a call? Oh, no. I don't think, I think that I have closed the door on that. for good reasons, you know? And like, but never, I mean, I don't know what the future holds.

But, like, I also feel like kind of my whole arc on housewives, like, you know, maybe Jen is coming back, you know, and that's my perfect exit, you know? How possible do you think that is? What that she comes back? Well, that I never think of, well, first of all, they're both different questions. But A, how possible do you think it is that she comes back and returns to the show? I mean, I think as viewers of reality television, we know that it's an absolute possibility. Yeah, sure.

I mean, I think as human beings on the planet Earth that know what television's about. Right. Spectacle. It would be ridiculous to say that it's not a possibility, of course. And then, in turn, the idea of you then leaving the show is... It wouldn't be gen-related, but it would just be the cyclical timing of everything, you know? Sure, sure. Yeah. I mean, so then you're saying that you've closed that chapter on Jen, that, like, you are, you are someone who is generous with friendship.

You will allow for a lot. But then when it's done, it's done. Yeah, it's done, it's done for now for me. Okay. But, of course, I have no idea where it's at for Jen and what's on her side. Sure, sure. So, you know what I mean. Because I'm tying this back to, like, you having to, like, permanently, in some way permanently,

say goodbye to the people in your past from leaving the church. Like you are, you have a, you have a model for this. And that's, that's a good, that's a good way to move through the world in some cases. Like, you, you, you say goodbye to people in your life with some permanence. Yeah. And things tend to get better. And so I'm, I'm, that scared me for a long time, but it doesn't scare me as much anymore. That's a huge moment in life is actually realizing, you know what? I'm going to be okay without this person. And I could be okay without these this person like because sometimes it's because when you are indoctrinated in what you what you are understanding to be like empathy and goodness it's like once you let that go you can like

people are harder people are the hardest like that's the thing yeah it's true yeah and so I think that's why it's like it's harder to understand but you do you can can understand it as a viewer. It's like, you are someone who cares a lot. And we can even see that and feel that from you, even knowing you, as well as we do, which we went on one sick vacation and we've hung out in an award show where we got to say hi. It's real, guys. It's real. I love to know.

Because you want to know what? Like, we do consider you a friend because we can tell how much you genuinely care. And that comes to the screen. It really does. I love the show. I love the women. It has changed my life forever. And it's like an incredible privilege to do.

what we do and to like have access and to like be in can partying with you guys like you can't i could have died the next day you know what i mean yeah yeah and it was really it's just like there's i just feel like i don't know how my life could get better yeah that's really that's wonderful one last question before you move on to i don't think so honey were you guys having fun together at the culture awards like where the salt lake housewives were you guys able to put things to the side, at least for that night. Yeah, we're the queens of that. We had the best time. Plus, when we're on top and we're there and everyone, like, it felt like we were the biggest stars in the movie. You were. It was so wonderful to us. I mean, you think we're going to

bicker about bullshit? No, yeah. Like, we, I mean, there is genuine love there on my side for all of them, you know. They have changed who I am. They have shaped who I am. They are, they are why I'm here and who I've become, which is crazy. You know, because so much of my life was shaped by such different forces. And so, yeah, we had the best time. Like, I laughed, I cried, I wept. I'm not even going to say it was better than cats because it was. And it was just like everyone had such a good time.

And did you guys hear how Angie harassed Jeff Goldblum? No. Tell us about that. What happened? Well, I will tell you that, like, she had good intentions, but her presentation was awful. she went up to him and said my daughter loves dinosaurs will you make her a video

I mean if only he knew I think he probably But then she backpedaled and made it all make sense but I was like that's not your line you have to I think he did

he made a beautiful video Of course he did He's a gentleman He's a lovely man Oh my gosh and his wife They were great Emily she's about But I think Jeff and Angie

are on the same Brave wing wave level Yeah, they're in the same plane of reality. Just curious people who just, you know, are, you know, just, just. He's like, oh, she likes, oh, absolutely. It's her specific dinosaur, you know. It was just like they were off to the races. Two characters talking to each other.

You know what I mean? You and I'm telling you, like, it made my heart leave out of my chest to see you guys, like, having fun together. I loved it. Being chummy. I hope we see more of that on the show this season. So before we do out of Bixiel, honey, what's to come on the season? To come on the season, there's a lot. And there's a lot of really, really fun, fun laughter.

We have a lot of fun. We wear a lot of costumes. We are into our themes. You know, you do CSGO on a yacht with Captain Jason. Yeah, I bet that's a jam. It is a jam. He really is hot. So hot.

So hot. And it's just a battle of me v. Brittany. Obviously, I lost miserably. We have to say, Brittany has definitely stepped into her iconography. Listen, Brittany should know that she may have a short game on the yacht, but I've got a long game. And Bravo Connie. in a few months.

Let's go. I'm going to be there. She should be aware. You know, I have history with Captain Jason. I plan to like, you know, lean in on that. Now I'll know where the party is when we're there. Absolutely. And I just think you'll see some growing pains and some of our friendships.

And I think that it's good, you know. You go to Greece. We go to Greece, Opa, and we, that's the best moment. I mean, Greece was spectacular. And there's a moment we're on a hill with one of Angie's family. family members. And I felt like I was on vacation. Like I forgot that I was, you know. Working as it were. We never say working. I'm so sorry. We forgot that we were on a girls trip to my best friends in Greece. Yeah. Right. Exactly. All right. Well, we can not. We forgot we're

insane. We're insane. I know. I do admire how people on all the shows were like not, you never say the show. It's the group. I love when we when we were in New York. Well, when we were in. Not, never at the reunion. Well, in New York. In New York. In New York. But you know what a lot of the drama can be is when we were at the last Culture Awards.

Stop. Are you kidding me? An audible gas. An audible gas from our executive producer. There's drama post culture awards? Well, depending on how well this gets added, it's short. I will say if we saw. No, there is.

There is. A lot of things went down intergroup. Are they going to cut to the Culture Awards in a flashback? I hope they do. I'm going to do my very best. to make sure they do. Oh, my God. I don't know if you know who I am,

but receipts prove timeline screenshots and I believe a lot of it's on footage at the Las Culturaises Awards. All I want is for at the reunion, someone to go to someone else. You owe me an apology for what you said at the Cultural Awards. For what you did at the Culture Awards, we weren't at the Culture Awards.

And you were disrespectful to Jeff Goldblum. Listen, Jeff Goldblum is just the tease. We have three or four storyline things. that happened there that we'll come up. You were disrespectful when Ben Platt was singing. Oh, no one would do dare to that. You got into it with our friend Stephen. But I had to introduce Lisa to a couple of people she didn't recognize.

Listen, here. Here's what we'll say. Here's what we'll say. If there are cutaways to the culture, if the culture awards is mentioned in any, you know, explicit way, you will be getting a recurring yearly invitation. Is that all it takes?

Incentive. Incentive. No, you're invited anyway. I'm just kidding. What I do want is full. literally the cultural awards to come up and then me and Bowen come out in gowns as friends up and sit at the end of the couches.

And just both sit on each one. And just be like, well, as the host, I think. And then I go, you owe me an apology. And I'll say you're a friend of. What do you have a snowflake you can speak? Bowen and I get into it from across from no man's land all the way when you're sitting on the end, screaming on each other.

Whitney goes, I wasn't there. I wasn't even there. She was so missed. I know. We really missed her. I know. And like, we were all text. Well, not all.

I was texting her the day before and saying, listen, just, you know, go off your phone for like 48 hours. It's going to be real painful. But it's all okay. We missed you. You would definitely sorely missed. And she was so phenomenal in this first episode.

She was. She really was. It was like, but if you had been there, it was like she's in all of her first, I've lost my entire fortune. Yeah. You know, it was like painful. You did it that there was something about the fortune.

Yes. Yeah. At one point she said fortune. I think they softened it, but it was like, my entire fortune is gone. I do. Fortune is one of my words I like to say, my fortune.

I love fortune. You like to say, you know, Heather has a great fortune of beauty. Thank you. That's the way that you would use fortune. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health. And I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer.

And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone. Depends which bone. Well, that's true. Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom. You mean sleep? Yeah, something like that, Jordan.

We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between. Men's health is about more than six packs and supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection. We don't just want you to live longer. We want you to live better. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arness, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe, most importantly, the first Latino to break primetime wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others.

But for me, I saw myself in his story. From plening canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways. On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life. The moments it has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like hours on screen.

This is the story of how one-man's spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Podcasters, it's time to get the recognition you deserve. The IHard Podcast Awards are coming back in 2026. Got a mic? Then you've got a shot. Every year, we celebrate the most creative, compelling, and game-changing voices in podcasting. Is that you? Submit now at iHeartPodcastawards.com for a chance to be honored on the biggest stage in the industry. Deadline December 7th.

This is your chance. Let's celebrate the power of podcasting and your place in it. Enter now at iHeartPodcastawards.com. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Month, where I talk to artists. athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn

from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo, somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes. Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head we made a mistake the deal fell through we're embarrassed we failed but this podcast is about that and how we made it through so when they sat me down they were kind of like we got into the small talk and they were just like so what do you got what what ideas and i was like oh no what check out not my best moment with me kevin on stage on the iHeart radio app apple podcast youtube or wherever you get your podcast all right we got to do i don't think so honey it's time

to get our giggles out about things in culture. Okay. So this is our 60 second segment where we take exactly that amount of time one minute to rent and rail against something in culture. I have a thing. I've realized that something that I never thought I'd have to do is going to be something I will. Got to do. Okay. This is Matt Rogers.

I don't think so many his time starts now. I don't think so, honey, I think I have to learn to ski. I've started seeing someone who skis. And it's a big part of this person. life. And I feel like it was already a big part of my sister's life. And when I thought this was a good thing to bring up on this episode because I don't think so, honey, me skiing ever before this. I really do feel like I'm going to get hurt. And what I really don't think so, honey is an injury at this point in my life. Like who needs a tour and I say out at 35? You know,

I don't think so, honey. That being said, I'm told it's quote unquote fun. I'm told it's quote unquote easy to do in the beginning. The bunny hills. I know those sound kind of simpler because a bunny is a very simple animal the way it hops, et cetera. But the thing is, like, I don't know about me and my coordination. I'm a 6'1 man. 15 seconds. Not known for my dexterity. But I would say, you know what I'm saying?

It's like I was never good at, like, the surfing and the snowboarding or whatever. Five seconds. It's so new to me. I will try. I don't think so honey, though, if I get really hurt, you have to pay for it. Oh. And that's one minute. How did I get rubbed into this?

He has to do, and I don't think so, honey, rebuttal to that, I don't think so honey. You can if you want. Yes. This will count as yours and then it will go to me? No, you probably came in with the topic. No, I didn't. And I was panicked. I was going to make you guys.

Now I've got one. Now I've got one. Okay, this is Heather Gays, I don't think so, honey. Oh, I can't, another historic episode, we're going out of order. This is Heather Gays, I don't think so any, her time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Matt Rogers using, I need to learn to ski as a ploy to let us all know about his newest crush. He's dating someone.

And the fact that he might need some. extra help on the hill. Also, I don't think so, honey, a way for him to say, I'm going to need a lot of support. Don't expect too much. That I have to pay for it? Yeah, like, he's doing everything he can to make sure he gets some hot ski patrol guys to guide him down the bunny hill. I don't need him anymore. I need a sauna and a hot rub. This is going to be harder than it looks. 30 seconds. I don't think so, honey. Matt Rogers pretending that he's scared about getting hurt. Torn ACL when you're over 50, baby your body is in great shape and all you want is for us to tell

you're not going to get hurt you're a natural athlete you're going to be a stud also surfing is nothing to do with skiing snowboarding neither so your plight is unheard and like you're going to be just fine and that's one minute

oh my god you can't do it you're right I just need to shut the fuck up I don't think I don't want to get hurt this body it's the trophy you are so good at skiing. You are. Honestly? I didn't know if this is a joke. No, we're so... We'll see you on the slopes on the episodes. I'm

from Utah. I don't just moonlight there. I am... Oh, the same. Also, Bowen, I was an Eskimo Ski Club, Colorado girl. So I was a Keystone guy. I was a Keystone boy. We still go there. We were Beaver Creek Vale. I love Beaver Creek and Vail. I need you guys to hit the slopes. I would love that. Okay. Bowen and I will absolutely

do anything together. Did you see us weeping together? No, I'm telling you, the way that I saw you guys absolutely connecting. Also, can I just share a little thing that happened in that same gazebo? Please. So I'm over on the side with Amanda and Sierra from Summerhouse, who are both perfect. So, so good, so good. And so Kyle, just stunning.

And so we had been hanging out a lot with Amanda, but Sierra, because we were all doing NBC. Yeah, there was a rare appearance for Sierra. See, I wasn't one of the NBC girls. He was there with, like, Amazon or something. So it was finally they were all linked up. And so DJ Kyle Cook was doing DJ Kyle Cook, cool boy stuff out there opening up for Ludacris. So Kyle comes in and he's amped because he just crushed.

He's like, he was just acting like, he was like a kid on Christmas morning. Oh, I love him. He opened for Ludacris in Cannes. It was awesome. So he comes out, it's like, dude, it was so great. And then Ludacris's person starts, the opening, DJ starts playing. So Kyle's like, we got to go, we got to go.

And then like Kyle runs off, a bunch of people follow Kyle. And I'm like, okay, we're going to go. And Amanda goes, I haven't even gotten a new glass of wine. Can we take a second? And Sierra is still sitting. And she's like, I know. And I realize this is my moment to be cool in front of Sierra Miller. So totally against my personality.

I'm usually running after Kyle Cook. So I go, I go in front of Sierra and Amanda, I go, yeah, like, Why are we running? And Sierra goes, yes. For a second. I was like doing drag to be cool enough for Sierra.

And then I like got to sit down and like talk to them for a second and I was just like, hell yeah, I did it. And then I have a second later, aka now I'm like uncool. But I saw my second. Wow. And it's like a cosplay as like a schoolgirl.

And he ran off. Of course. Then you heard yay. And I was like out there. but then we had such an amazing time. You got on their level as like like you got a code switching icon.

You're talking to a Mormon housewife. I know. I know. Coat switching. I mean, it's all I do. It's all we all do. But it was truly,

it was a good moment for me. Lots happened in that. A lot goes down in the gazebo. Yeah. Oh yeah. Loved it. Loved it all. Okay.

So I've lost the phone. It's fallen underneath. Okay. I'll do a quick one. Bowen's being left out of his one minute. This is. Bowen. Thanks. I don't think so, honey. And his time starts now.

I don't think so, honey, the fact that I did not wait to get my first Botox at Beauty Lab and Laser. I got it done at the germ. And I really genuinely was holding out on the next time I go to Salt Lake City, whenever that will be, I will get my first botulism, injection. Toxin. Talks. I'll get my first tox in my face. My guy's a minimalist, he says. I say, I have to raise my eyebrows and express myself for work. He says, I'll go minimal. This shit is crazy 30 seconds I'm new to this You look amazing

You seem so surprised This is This is Do I Do I I seem so surprised Can I What's my range

I don't know about this I'm gonna I'm gonna really ease up on it I tried it Maybe not for me all the time Maybe now and then In like the summer When I'm like

Oh like I'm you know I want to look dewy But I should have waited To go to Beauty Lab And Laser A Site of True History Television Culture History

I'm sorry, I did not go and be a patron to your business, Heather Gay. Compt for life and you look perfect. And that's one minute. I will say it looks great. Raise your eyebrows for me and now make an angry face. My 11s are still intact. My 11s are still there. Much more.

Who advised him? See, my derm says he'll only ever give it. So I have it in between my brows here. Those are 11s, yeah. But my, it's actually the triangle of sadness. Okay. So I have it in my triangle of sadness, I suppose. Um, but my derm says he'll never give it to me in my forehead because my brow is to, uh, uh, flat and thick. What do you think about this? And I'm worried about my under eyes. When a guy says to me that he'll never give it to me in the area I've asked, I usually break up with them. Oh, oh my God. That works for Botox. That works for penetrative sex. That works for penetrative sex. Well, you know what he says to me? He goes, we're, he's going to do. We're, we're going to do. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're.

We'll do your 11s. And then he goes, and maybe a little bit over here. He's like, but I'll never do your forehead because I don't want your, your, your, you're proud of Drew. Because he wants me to be expressive as an actor, which, of course. But then I was like, but what about my under eyes? Do you think I am not expressive as an actor? No, you are.

I cannot even lift a muscle on my face. I don't know if I'm smiling or crying or shocked and have, do you not feel my emotion. We feel it all. We feel it all. Then not, do not fear the needle, fear the furrowed lines that will aid you prematurely. Well, like, vulnerably, the only thing I'm really, like, not good about is, like, just my bags under my eyes and, like, the wrinkles under my eyes right here. He goes, you are a candidate for a lower blepho. And I was like, oh, what?

A lower blepho. A lower blephaloplaphy. Yes. So now, there's upper, there's upper blood. So now I was thinking of something sexual that only germs said to their favoritations. I gave him a blepho on the slopes. But anyway. I need a lot of help coming down the mountain.

I need help on the buddy hills, and I need a blepho stat. Oh, jeez. But, yeah, no, now just blepho is something in my vocabulary. I'm telling everyone, well, you know, I'm a candidate for a lower bluff. Listen, you know, who can give you, ask all the housewives. Have you had an upper bleaf or lower bleaf? We just say blef. B-L-E-P-H.

So when I go to BravoCon, I'll just say bleaf. L-B. I'll do a U-B-B-B-B-B-E. Upper-B-B-B-L-F. Anyways. Well, Heather, I think we should take Matt to Gay Ski Week or something. Well, for sure. Sure. I'm on board.

I'd love to coax you down the mountain. No torn ACL on my watch. I will be so good at the Aprey part. Oh, that's the only thing that matters. Aper is the funnest part, but you have to do the, it's interesting. You do have to suffer through the actual skiing to make the appra even more enjoyable. Yeah, you have to feel the cold in order to enjoy the hot. Exactly.

I get it. Okay. Well, much in the future. Listen, guys, Salt Lake City, I am your hostess. All the wives are your hostess. Well, you know, we're going to have to do. like a couple days with you, a couple days with Anne. We'll just do an Airbnb and

we'll all, I'll bring them all in one by one. I'll make sure that they, you know, kiss the ring before they're allowed to become, before they're invited. So Angie, Angie's first ever watched what happens live was with Bowen Yang. And she was so deeply nervous. She was nervous. She was so nervous. And she still

thanks me to this day for making her feel at ease. And that was at a time when I didn't know how to feel about Angie because she was so new to being an official house back and I was like I don't know like I love Meredith like does what does this mean just the sweetness was so apparent I was like oh she's she's just an angel on this earth I can already tell I you just have no choice but but to be nice to this person yeah she's lovely and shana electra over there and then you know we just bought she gave me her number she's like you were invited anytime she's I mean she's

wonderful she also has a sliced tongue of great shade which we should not despair we should honor equally She's got a joke. I love it. I mean, I think that she has the range. You look like a trampoline with eyes. I think you look like a trampoline with eyes. It's actually an all-timer. Most of her lines are Alzheimer's.

They really are. My daughter loves dinosaurs. Can you make a video? Yeah. My daughter loves dinosaurs. Can you make a video? Can you make a video? Can you make a video?

She's a great communicator. You, we can see how expressive you are. You are one of our great vessels of pathos and joy. You experience it. all, you reflect the human condition back to us as we watch. Heather Gay, thank you so much for coming on our humble podcast. Yes.

We love you so much. Thank you. This is really fun. Solid Cities on Tuesdays on Bravo. Tuesdays on Bravo. 8.7 Central. Correct? Correct. Who knows? It's streaming. Yeah. Who knows? Catch on Peaccaultlessly, yeah. And streaming on peacock, along with the Culture Awards. We end every episode with a song.

Thank you for being a friend. Travel down the road I'm back again Your heart is true You're a pal and a confidant I actually said friends in a confidant It's Al in a confidant Am I allowed to join in or is that like a guest?

Yes, that is perfect And if you threw a party Invited everyone you knew You would see The greatest gift would be from me And the card attached would say Thank you for being a friend Bye. Goodbye.

Yes. Yay! So good. Las Culture Rees is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeartRadio podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yag. Executive produced by Anna Hosnier and produced by Becker Ramos. Edited and mixed by Doug Bame. And our music is by Henry Kversky.

Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills. here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. So check out the Mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Podcasters, it's time to get the recognition you deserve. The IHeart Podcast Awards are coming back in 2026. Got it, Mike? Then you've got a shot. Every year, we celebrate the most creative, compelling, and game-changing voices in podcasting. Is that you? Submit now at iHeartPodcastawards.com for a chance to be honored on the biggest stage in the industry. Deadline December 7th.

This is your chance. Let's celebrate the power of podcasting and your place in it. Enter now at iHeartpodcastawards.com. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures.

What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kevon Stage, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube,

or wherever you get your podcasts. On this week's episode of Next Chapter, I, TDJ, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award-winning actor and cultural icon. I don't take any credit for it. I just didn't put me first. I just put God first and he's carrying me. Listen to the next chapter podcast on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you. you get your podcast. New episodes drop weekly. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.