Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "We ❤️ Our Customers" (w/ Demi Lovato)

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

Matt + Bowen finally welcome a true icon in the Las Cultch lore, Demi Lovato, to the podcast! The artist with the #1 song on the Great Global Songbook joins the boys after a culture catchup to discuss what is driving her new sound, working with manager Brandon Creed, figuring huge Demi vocals into hard electronic production, and honesty as a constant throughline in her work. Also, Kelly Clarkson on American Idol and her formative impact on Demi Lovato as a young singer, smiling vs. serving, and Demi's sister Madison's performance as Juanita Solis in Desperate Housewives. All this, grinding with Sabrina Carpenter, Alexander Skaarsgard's recent gay fashion, thoughts on The Life of a Showgirl, the rise of Olivia Dean, Wendy Osefo's recent arrest, the return of pumpkin spice and even more litigation of the Song of the Summer 2025. This episode goes fast, loves to kiss and will be here all night. We truly love Demi. Stream It's Not That Deep on October 24th!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day. Stories that move markets. Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world and how you think about your bottom line. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News.

every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Johnny Knoxville here. Check out Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist, my new true crime podcast from smartless media, campside media, and big money players. It's the true story of the almost perfect crime and the Nimrods who almost pulled it off. It was kind of like the perfect storm in a sewer. That was dumb. Do not follow my example. Listen to Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again, we'll take today's trends and

headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple

podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times. It starts with a dream, a nature reserve, and a spectacular

new home. But little by little, they lose it. They actually lose They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to hell in heaven on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, hey, hey, or should I say, ho, ho, ho. It's me, Matt Rogers, and in the words of another Christmas icon, it's time. I'm back with my new nationwide tour, Matt Rogers, Christmas in December.

Yes, it's time to remember when Christmas is. I'm hit in the road all of December with Henry Kaperski and the whole band performing my album. Have you heard of Christmas, along with a bunch of other little surprises? So if you're in L.A., San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, D.C., New York City, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, or, yes, Orlando, Florida. I want to see your gorgeous ass. Go to Matt Rogers official.com or head to my Instagram at Matt Rogers, though, and hit the link in my bio. Until then, stream the album, get your look together, and get ready to deck the damn halls at a venue near you. Christmas in December, you in my heart. X-O-X-O-X-O Santa Boy.

Look, Matt. Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow, is that culture. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las cultureistas.

Last Coltrista calling. What do you think is in the air right now? Fall. Fall. Spooky season for sure. I haven't been spooked at all. Can I say that's not been a part of it? I think we're about to get spooked, though.

We're about to go to New Orleans for our friend Joel Kim Booster's Bachelor Party. Did you know it's New Orleans gay Halloween weekend? I think someone knew. Someone in the group knew otherwise they wouldn't have picked New Orleans. for that week. I think this is all very intentional, certainly not on our parts. We're just along for the ride.

It's targeted. It's targeted. But here's the thing about gay weekend vacation. It just so happens to, I face this in Peatown, too, because it's like the thing about New Orleans and also Peatown is, well, maybe more New Orleans than Peatown,

but they talk about the food in New Orleans. And so I'm really going to want to center your gumbo. your... Benyze. Venets. Your And duie. And more. And more.

You know what I mean? Oh, the food. And then at the same time, it's like a gay Halloween weekend. You know what I'm saying? It's like you don't want to necessarily be full of the Bula base when you're trying to shake that ace. Well, I want that's really good. Was it? I want a Bula to get me in the base.

You want a Bula. It doesn't really work. in your bass. Well, Bula in my bass is Tidal. Don't you want the Bula Bula bass. He got that Bula bass. Oh my God. Ratatoui would love this song.

But I have to say that he wouldn't because that's not his name. That's not his name. It's Remy. Which, do you remember finding that out? Holy fuck. That was when you knew that that movie was for adults. It wasn't a Pixar movie for kids.

That it was firing on other cylinders. Well, that the title is a. a peasant vegetable dish and not the cute little mouse Yeah Like that was when they Pixar went This one this one's a thinker

And it's no yeah And yeah we're gonna trick the kids Into the theater with these little mice And the posters him You know Surrounded by knives against a door I don't remember that ever happening in the movie Then it becomes a whole treatise on art

And the joy of cooking and romance in Paris. So Rattatoui doesn't have any, I would say, Cajun, New Orleans food in it. Can I tell you something? I've never seen it. Are you serious?

I don't really, what? Can I come out and say something? Are you serious? I don't really watch the Disney movies. I don't watch the Disney movies. I'm serious. I don't, they're not a part of my culture

that I consume. Wait. I don't do that. I go, I, I, I don't do the Disney films. You know, I'm not like, you know, I don't.

What is this big? I don't. I don't watch the movies. I like to go on the rides. It's a common misconception. What was the last Disney movie you saw? We'll get this. In today's episode of the podcast, we have Demi Lovato on, famous Disney star turned, very, very

Remy from Ratatouille narrative, used to be a Disney star, is now for gay adults. Mm-hmm. Very Remy narrative. But in this episode, which you're about to hear, this is really just a little appetizer if we're going with the Remy meal metaphor, which we are, and we will keep doing. Is Remy for gay adults?

For me, when I go to Epcot, Remy's for gay adults. Sure, it's this gay adult. And we should just also clear up. Bula Base is a French stew, and it's not Cajun. We also must, we're going to get reamed by the cooks out there. Oh, no, reamed by the cooks, I don't hate that suggestion. I don't hate the sound of that. Sing you this weekend, you fucking fags.

I would love a chef to fuck me. Oh, I would love a chef to fuck me. You know, have I ever been fucked by a chef? No. Let me think about that. While I am, I was going to say, Demi Lovato mentions the movie Soul in this episode, the Disney movie Soul. That maybe was the last, like, Disney movie.

No, I did see that. And I remember leaving being like, eh, okay. Well, that came out during COVID. So you left the room. You left the room that you watched it in. No, I mean, I watched it. I remember I watched it in my L.A. apartment. And I was just like, eh, this one wasn't really for me.

I kind of need, like, I kind of need either one of two things. Like, a lot of music or a big gay villain. Who dies in, like, an overdrawn way? I've talked about this on the show. If you don't give me either one of those things, it's like not the Disney movie for me. But it is the Disney movie for Demi Lovato, which she says in the episode. and I'm so happy for her, for that reason and the new album, you know? I'm very happy for the new album for her and for myself.

I'm happy for everybody. I really, and I think this is a moment we're not playing here. I think this is a moment for the culture where if we do write by this album, we're not being paid to say this. Like, if we do write by this album as a culture, as a community, we will be okay. I genuinely believe that. And let me tell you something. They try to pay us to say things, and we always say no.

Actually, T, besides the ads that we... Besides the ads that we... Besides the ads that were paid to say... By the way, besides... They try to tell us to say... They try to tell us, and sometimes they do, and it works in the ads. But, first of all, any ad you get for, like, the military or for some, quote-unquote, agency in this fucking country of ours is not something that we ever put on the show, and we actually do...

have a connection every week and we do like bring it up to the fucking top brass and we're like take this off oh yeah if you ever hear like an ad for the air force on this podcast please let us know but wait a minute we will we will fly right in as it were yeah i wanted to say something but what what do you want to say nothing well i'll tell you later oh oh see see what we're not being authentic no no this is between this is between bow and this is between me and man oh yeah we're we're having a big demi era that's for sure Well, I'm saying if we do right by this album, it's not that deep, out this Friday, October 24th, you will really, really be happy. I think we will be dancing during spooky season. There will be something to really bring the community together on Halloween.

No matter what the community is, no matter how you... Listen to me. My lips, your lips, take me to the chorus. I kiss for fun. It's fun to kiss. lyrics lyrics music and lyrics

a movie starring Hugh Grant and Drew Barrymore also the things that this album excels at music and lyrics I really think you'll enjoy

well it's actually so crucial that an album excel at both music and lyrics actually real culture number nine it's actually so crucial that an album excel at both music

and lyrics I would say this one does it in space Oh, yeah. Any other updates? I think we are really loving this. We've done this a couple of times in the past, right? I think for the Cape Lanchette episode, we did a little 30-minute chunk up top of just my sister and I

to keep things up to date, and I really dig this, I really like this. Well, I basically, like, I was really excited today because it's a very fall day, and I sort of got to dress in this new fall way, because I don't know if you know by looking at me, but I clearly went to the Red Hook Flea. You know what I mean? They sell zip-up Masoni vests at the Red Hook Flea. Look at this. Can you just get into it?

You look amazing. I saw it and Melissa was like, I think you need that. And I was like, I don't know. Now, take me to the chorus. You look like you're about to be a really handsome three-character, three-episode arc on succession, if that show was still on. Thank you so much.

I do feel a little bit like what Jeremy Strong would wear outside of, like, the boardroom in that show. Yes, yes. Jeremy Strong's style icon, by the way. He looked amazing this weekend at the Academy Gala. So did you, but I didn't even really know what that event was, and it was like a fashion event. Yes, they were trying to make it sort of like a West Coast version

of another famous museum gala. The Man Gala. Yes, but I don't want to compare it. And I know, I'm not really... I do. I want to compare. Okay, but truly, what a fun night and some looks returned. Nikki Campbell had a fun, snarky thing to say about my outfit and it felt like a dream come true.

Nikki Campbell is constantly saying I'm in the wrong color, and what I want to say to him is that color is subjective. Oh, so he, I'm sorry, but he recently said something was good that was bad, and I'm like, see, it's subjective. Nikki Campbell is really helping me get back to that place that I took for granted during the fashion police era where I'm like, I disagree with this opinion and that's okay. And this actually applies to every kind of thing in life, hopefully. I'm actually going to bravely say what I thought was bad

that he thought was good. And a lot of people are talking about it and I do think it's culture and I do think it's gay culture. And so I respect the parties involved for creating gay culture with this. And I do think it's smart for the movie. But what Alexander Scarsgaard just wore to the, it was like a white almost halter top and like black leather pants with,

he looked hot, but that top didn't, that top didn't look right on him. I disagree. But see, we're okay. I thought it looked amazing. I thought it looked incredible. Maybe I'm wrong because then actually I did look at, then I looked at again like two days later and I was like, okay, I mean, it is working. Like I am a little horny for this. You got a chub. Yeah. I definitely had a chub.

Chubb, but I was like, is that Alexander Scarsguard, especially him being so fluid, or is that the look? And I don't think it's the look. I think he was very sexy in spite of the look. Interesting. See, that's like, that's where I come in on it. Let me, let me pull this girl out. Pull it up again, because I'm in discussion. I just don't know about the way that the top looks.

Are you looking at it? I don't know. It's, yeah, it's giving, it's giving, like, Donna Karen. I think the darts, I think the dart, it's not a dart, but I think like the way that there's a stitching along, up and down is... God, he is such a hot. Okay, you know what? Forget I said anything.

She looks amazing. He does look amazing. What do you mean? He also could do no wrong. I mean, is he number one? God, you go on Google Images of Alexander Scarsgard, and it's really a treat. It's actually real culture number four. You go on Google images of Alexander Scarsgard,

Garden. It's really a treat. And I'm sure of a gem of a human being as well. Good enough for Jack McBrayer. Good enough for us. I've heard this. Well, they're like iconic besties. I know. Jack McBrayer. Come on the pod. Fred Runner for Best Vives, hands down. Oh, yes. That man is a vibe.

He's really good. He's really fun. I really enjoy him. I just have to say that. Wait, can we just shout out? I'm like really, I'm sorry, while you. you were doing that, I was still feeling the frisson about Alexander Scars Garden. I had a thought run through my head, which was I should make him my phone background, but I think that's a bridge too far. Why is

that? Because I'm like a grown man. Well, look at him. No one can resist a rule of culture, so here's one for the dating files. Rule of culture number 72. Chemistry isn't just vibes, it's values. Because what's the point of

matching with someone if you can't talk about the shows you binge, the books you dog ear, or all the hot takes you'll defend it brunch. I mean, you definitely have friends who have met their partners on Bumble, and it makes sense. It's not just about matching with someone. It's about finding someone who gets your references, your obsessions, your whole vibe. With shared interests

and prompts, you don't just see a profile. You get a glimpse of someone's personality, which makes it even easier to start conversations that actually lead somewhere. Plus, with photo and ID verification, you can trust that the person you're talking to is real. With that added piece of mind, it's so much easier to show up as your full self. So whether your rule of

culture is the best first dates start with the shared hot take on Renaissance, or compatibility as having the same hometown bodega order, download Bumble and turn those connections into something bigger. Download Bumble and start your love story. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once. People weren't wild. Stunned. But three times. John and Ann Bender are rich and attractive,

and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular circular home high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts.

Until one night, Everything spins out of control. Listen to hell in heaven on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday. A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market. What does a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy? Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsize indicators of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion dollar payout?

There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House. And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't? CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things. whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here we go.

Hey, I'm Cal Penn. And on my new podcast, Here We Go again. We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Camarmer. movies. But I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come

there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lily Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, okay, so a couple of things. First of all,

congratulations on another amazing banner week on the Today Show with Jenna. Oh, thank you. You were fabulous, as always. A lot of, a lot of hot, hot employees on the staff crushing on my friend Matt Rogers. Really? Didn't you, you guys had a whole thing where like,

oh, oh, oh, no, she was saying that one of her mom friends was like, I like Matt Rogers, I have a crush on Matt Rogers. I thought it was someone on staff. Okay, they would never be so unprofessional. It was like her full. Former assistant was texting her current assistant. I wish Matt Rogers was straight, which is such a kind thing to say when you're a straight woman. No, I really do.

I take that as a compliment. But then she was saying that she was around a bunch of mom friends who were saying they like me on the show. And I mean, like, I love going and doing the show. I just don't think they're going to want to pay anyone to do that job. I know. That's my thing is everyone's like, when is it going to? be official. I'm like, I'm not thinking of it like that. Yeah, I think

there are a lot of factors surrounding this that are out of our control in this area. To speak, whatever, we'll end it there. But I also want to say really quickly, I have to commend the

work of Friend of the Pod, Brooke Ashley. I have been wrapped in her storytelling. Oh my God. When it comes to the Ocepho scandal of it all, I don't think we've to spend too much time on this. But it is, I am thinking about this situation a lot,

very, very, very, very unfortunate for a lot of reasons. If you don't know, one of the real houses of Potomac, Wendy Ocepho, and her husband, Eddie Ocefo, are allegedly in this sort of insurance fraud scheme that is just just super unfortunate. They apparently allegedly staged a burglary. reported these goods stolen. They then returned these allegedly stolen goods to the retailer before the burglary allegedly took place

and then when you was seen on social media with a piece of jewelry after the burglary. Yeah, they were arrested. They were arrested on multiple counts of felonies and other misdemeanors, but all relating to insurance fraud. And this is the first, I guess, guest of our show that's been arrested for felony crimes. I really hope this is some kind of mistake that can get cleared up,

but also I don't think they go out of their way to make a full-blown arrest, like especially one that's as public as this without there being something. I will say the thing that makes me saddest about this is... Is it a children? Well, yes, obviously, but also, like, we saw them try a lot of ways to make money. You know what I mean?

Like, she came in with this full-blown, you know, identity as a professor, as someone who was very well-educated, you know, famously four degrees. You know, she also had a career as a commentator, a political commentator. She was trying to do a talk show. She tried to do a Home Essentials line. There's now the weed business. Like, these are people that we saw try many different ways to make money. And I don't know how successful those were.

or how things look on the outset. But I just think it's really sad that people that are as smart as this or as accomplished as this and that presented as such, you know, different types of people felt that they needed to do something like this. And I really hope that I'm rooting for their innocence.

And I think the whole thing is really sad because I'm a Dr. Wendy fan. and the final thing I want to say is I blame Giselle I blame Giselle oh I absolutely blame Giselle and Robin I blame Jazele I blame Ashley I blame them all Oh Ashley Darby remains one of the dumbest people to everyone You posted that story of her being like so I'm going to the White House Correspondence dinner and it's not really a partisan thing it's like I mean

kind of is when you oh according to who Ashley According to her I guess in that moment one of one of our great great minds. I'm sorry. I go for I go for how stupid specifically these two people are. And it is sad that like whatever, I also root for Wendy. That's all. That's all I'm going to say. I root for Monday. I think this is so shocking and so unfortunate for whatever

happens, whatever the truth is. I mean, none of it is right but there are so many things about this that are wrong, but I just think, I just think, you know, on a human level, it's like you never, it's just, it's, it's just a terrible system that we live in, right, that, like, motivates this kind of thing. That's all. I just think, how the fuck did they think they were going to get away with it if that's what they were doing? Amix doesn't play. Insurance doesn't play. No. Like, insurance will come after you. Anything above what, like, $400, $500? No, like, the charge was insurance fraud over $300. Like, anything above that. Well, it was, so basically they

claimed up to $450,000 in stolen goods because that was what their insurance policy like required the claim if you know what I mean like so even that just like barely getting over that little you know it's just all of it feels all of it feels a little too dumb which is why I'm hoping it's a mistake there can be something else that comes out that clears them just because I'm so devastated for their very young children. They have an adorable family. Yeah. And, you know, I've always been, I've always been a Wendy fan.

But then, you know, who the fuck knows? We don't really, we don't know these people. I mean, Brian Moyland did a great breakdown on his Housewives bulletin on Vulture, just like the tears of lying that happens on Housewives. And I think that just happened in real life. But like, this is the most serious. I mean, it goes from like simple misunderstandings to. like, you know, embellishing the truth all the way down to, like, criminal things, right?

And late, like, the recent examples of this are perhaps this Wendy situation, certainly the Katie Janella of it all on O.C. And, you know, classically, Monica Garcia. Like, there's just the thing, but the thing at the root of all this is just not being able to reconcile, like, the real life versus what is being shown on TV, like the gilded exterior of what you want to show on a television show, which is different than social media where you can just control things. You are handing over the edit to people that are not out there to make you look good. Yeah, I mean, that's, I guess, like, I think that's what's the darkest about it,

is it's just, like, clearly, like, what was motivating them was, like, material stuff. And at first I was kind of like, well, at least this is, is a crime that doesn't harm anyone, you know, like, Jen Shaw's crimes, like, explicitly harmed people. Like, so it's, and then I was thinking, yeah, but I mean, it harmed their kids. I know. That's, that's the thing that sucks is, like, the only people this harms are your family. I thought about her mother, like, because she's got, like, you know, like, a tough relationship with her mom. She was really hemming and hawing about leaving her job as a professor. Her mother is a Nigerian immigrant.

Like, she even wrote a book about this experience. Like, this is like a hardworking, like, very smart woman who tried a lot of things. And it almost made me feel like, oh, God. And even Whitney Rose, like, opening up on Salt Lake about her business failing. Like, I do think there's some, there's some layer that's being pulled back now about because it did feel like about four or five years ago. There was like this housewives resurgence again. You know what I mean?

Like, I felt like Salt Lake doing so well and being in headlines. and then like, you know, Bravo Khan exploding the way it did. Like it felt like an industry again that was really motivating these entrepreneurial attempts by the women. And one dark side of that is that a lot of that is going to fail. And so I think that it's honestly saving Whitney on the show because it felt like that cast was getting so crowded for her to come out and be like,

hey, I am going to be really honest about this. Like, I did not succeed. And she was not shy at the time about being like, Justin lost his job. I'm putting everything into this. So then by the same token, for her to now come in and be like, hey, all that stuff I said, that was real. I really did sink a lot of my stuff. And it failed. Yeah.

It's like making her. It's, you know. Kind of, yeah, it gives her this really new thing to play with. I don't think we've seen a lot of this in the housewives. franchises. I think she's being very... No, honestly about failure? I know. It's actually, it's very refreshing. We've always rooted for Whitney here.

Love Whitney. We love Whitney and especially loved her conversation with Brittany. Haunting. Haunting. But... But we, can we say we love Brittany? But Britney, like, we are all Whitney in that moment shaking you being like, you absolutely

cannot date this man any further if your daughter is saying it's a hard line in the sand. Like, you cannot. And then the next step, but she's like, we are back together. Brittany, if you're listening, we say this with just love. I know you've been probably getting so much, you know,

caustic feedback from just the public. And that is an awful sensation and that is completely disorienting, telling you how to be apparent. We are not necessarily here to do that, but we're here to tell you in a situation like this where one thing is deleterious of the other, it seems like dating Jared is,

really harming in a potentially permanent way your relationship with your children. That's all. And it's going to be documented. Yes, and that's even more painful. Well, but you know what, though? She's got a show at 54 below. She's going the Luan route.

I love it, but genuinely so talented. Not to say that Luan isn't... Here's the thing about Luan. She's a star. I've seen that show two times. I don't know if I'd call her a vocal talent, but I would call her a star. Oh, an icon.

And I took down my post where it was, um, Bravo M.G posting about how Luann was cast as the cowardly line. I took a time because it was taking jabs at her quote unquote male voice. And I was like, okay, I don't want to do that. Well, I mean, yeah. But I mean, like, like, I don't want, I don't want like to like public. I don't know. Like, however she feels about that, I don't want that to be like the thing. You're being sensitive about a comment about someone's, uh, gender.

That's, that could that, yeah, I mean, that you're being sensitive, but, you know. It's gendering the timbre and Luan has a man's voice as. a well-trod I know and I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to keep grooming a well-trod path

so I anyway but we're just saying we love Luan as well we're just saying one thing I'm saying about you is you're always grooming the path

of the untrodden I'm grooming a new path you're always grooming that's what I always say about Bowen he is always grooming I see him out here grooming yes yes yes

well I've been getting so I remember when I told you about that allergy around my eye Yes, how is it going? You know what it is? It's just that I can't use any, like, makeup or anything that's, like, scented, I guess. I have to use all clean products.

I don't know when this happened. Right now, I kind of, like, I have to say, like, this is my office. So I'm in my New York apartment, and I'm really happy where I put my desk because the light is really... I'm so satisfied to have good zoom lighting in here. That's great. And also, like, we used clean makeup this week for some stuff that we had to do, and I'm like, Okay, thank God, I'm not breaking out around my eyes. Because that is frustrating.

When something with your skin rears its ugly head, it's, I don't think so honey-coded. But also, take the fragrances out of makeup, period. Right? Why? I don't, I never got that. Unless, hey, if you love your fragrance-scented makeup, let us know why. We'd love to get some perspective on this.

What if I just started wearing white diamonds by Elizabeth Taylor? Here we go. Talk about Elizabeth Taylor and your, you know, My white diamonds and lovers are forever. Can I tell you why? Okay, so just to briefly touch on this, if you don't like the song Elizabeth Taylor, two things. It's fine.

I'm not going to get intense about it. One, I just wouldn't want you around, like, my kids. Like, I wouldn't trust you. Like, I think you should go. I think you're, I wouldn't, I don't trust you. And two, you're not thinking of it as a Matt Rogers character. Right. Oh.

If you think of it as a me character, you're going to think Elizabeth Taylor is one of the great songs of the American, of the global songbook. And if we had to make the list again, it would be in the top 50. People don't understand her mind on Elizabeth Taylor. They're not understanding her mind. Would you say that the way into the album in general is to think of her on this album as a matter of Rodder's character? Yeah. It could help. It could help.

No, but here's the thing. Like people are, I think now the dust has kind of settled about it and people can start to talk about this album like human beings. Fate of Ophelia, Elizabeth Taylor, Opelite, father figure. The first four tracks, that is unreal. Like, that's really good. And then I have the same complaints about eldest daughter that everyone else does. But then we're back with Ruin the Friendship.

And Ruin the Friendship is Classic Taylor, Classic Taylor. I, you know, I have. had a really crazy, delayed moment with both Midnights. And now, in the last couple of days, ever more, you were always right. I should never, I should never doubt you. We might not be synchronized in our opinions, but I will, I will maybe meet you at some, we will intersect in them at some point. Who's to say that I won't move past it?

Just to hear you guys finally get on board with, like, a song like Maroon, which is so good? I know, I never said Maroon. What song were you not feeling for Midnights? Lavender Hayes? Yeah, for some reason, I never, I wrote off Lavender Hayes like, not one of her best openers on an album. It's a Remy thing. You just had to grow up.

Fuck you. Wait, what does Remedy mean? It's a Remy Rattahooie thing. I know, I know, but what... Used to be young and for kids. Then one day he fucked. I don't understand. Maybe a midnight.

No, the production on Lavender Hayes goes so hard. Anyway, we're having Jake Shane on the show next week, and we did a full episode with Jake way before Life of a Showgirl had come out. So we don't even talk about it. It's a wonderful time capsule. That's a fantastic episode. This is a fantastic episode. Anything else before we throw it over to our conversation with Demi?

Well, I did want to say, speaking of the pop girls, I loved you grinding on Sabrina. And I did just want to ask you, like, for any BTS, when you and Sabrina were sort of rubbing your private parts on each other all day for comedy, like how did you break through the awkwardness of that? Was it ever awkward? Are you guys texting a lot now?

Are we going to see Bowen Street and act itself in real life? You and Sabrina Carpenter would be an incredible power couple. I actually think that. Thank you. Really? What makes you say? You're like the Barry Keoggin of gay guys. You're not totally wrong.

You kind of are, actually. You kind of are. Interesting. Like, I started off doing little smaller supporting roles. And then, and then I really found, like, my thing. Now you're at the Academy Gala. Getting a vibes Oscar. Congratulations on your vibes Oscar.

Thank you. You know, it was very Barry Keogh of me was, was Mr. Allorty and I reconnecting on the flight back to New York. That's really good. And so that's, that's very Barry. No, and now I'm running. I was running around my house, my apartment today, fully naked, and I did feel like Barry at the end of Salfurn,

a movie that I might someday also come to really enjoy in the way that I do with Midnights. I think Salfurn, like, looking back, I probably was too hard on that. It's fun. I can't wait for Wuthering Heights. I can't wait for Wuthering Heights. I want to say that, yes,

even with Life of a Showgirl, even with a lot of recent releases, or not so recent releases, Like, I think there is a latent period of like, wait for this to, wait for this to like congeal in the culture before. Like, I, I don't come out with like a rush to take anymore. No, it's just stupid because, because honestly, like everyone's so crazy when it first comes out. Like I also just, like I said, like I said a million times, it's just not why music exists so that people can raise to have a take on it. Even like the swiftologist who I've been watching a lot of, like, because that's where I'm at.

He's very smart. He even waits. Like, he does his like, his, like, his, like, his. like immediate reaction and then he in it was interesting he waited like he waited two weeks for his showgirl yeah and his ultimately his opinion is that life of a showgirl is mid and but and i even think that might change i don't think it's mid i think there's i think there's one so i don't like canceled at all i i just i don't like i don't like content about cancellation i don't like like i just don't like any i don't like talking about i don't like the word canceled like i just don't

think it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not forward thinking. I think Taylor might be aware that this is her album that she will leave behind as the one where it was like, that was her at her most chronically online because the rest of the world was too. Like I, I, there's something that I think is true about her earlier work that, um, is more timeless because it is not, it was not as online because we weren't as a culture. I think because the culture is bad, we have bad reactions to work that is about the current moment. And they're, people have really strong reactions to it. And I think this album,

I think this album will make sense in about a year, which I think all of the, like every, every, like, sticky piece of work does, like, at some, you know, after a certain latent period. What were you going to say? I think it does make sense already because I actually think, like,

I think whether or not, like, you like the explanations, because she has given a couple, which you could argue, like, should you be able, should you have to explain things for people to get them? But like the first verse of eldest daughter, she was like, no, I'm intentionally speaking in a way that people speak online because it is like me trying to fit into something that I can't. And then when the song progresses, by the time you get to the bridge, which is like actually a really beautiful bridge, it's actually a really good track five bridge when you stack them all up together, that's actually me speaking the way I really speak because I'm not trying too hard. So basically, she's come out and said, if the first verse sounds like it's trying too hard, that's by design.

Now, people can have their opinions on that, whatever. But I do think it speaks to a larger thing about the album, which is she didn't write a million songs. She probably wrote like these 12, maybe a few more. And she said, you know what? I'm going to fucking go for it. And I'm going to be messy. And I'm going to have people talking. And certainly there are some things in here that, like, relate to her peers, Charlie.

You could argue Olivia with the father figure of it all. I actually think in the, in the movie that she, you know, had in theaters, like she pretty directly not, she doesn't outright confirm that it's about Olivia. She says she was on both sides of this dynamic. She says she's been on both sides of the dynamic and she also like goes out of her way to say, we interpolated father figure by George Michael and the song father figure and we were in communication with them the whole time because that's what you do. when you interpolate something and it's great,

and that's the right thing to do, which to me is directly speaking to the concerns about the Olivia Rodrigo and why Taylor, Jack, and St. Vincent have writing credit on a song like Dejavu. So to me, it's like not only is she, not only is that what this song is about, but she wants people to know, which is a choice.

And like, you know, like that, certainly that's going to be polarizing, but I think that's the point of, life of a showgirl is I think she wants it to be messy. She said she welcomes the chaos everyone's takes online. Like, I think she wanted this to be like a chaotic, messy, like pop star showgirl era. Whether or not you think it achieved that is up to everyone's individual opinion, but I think the album does make sense in that way.

I don't know what her intention is with performing these songs live because she has not done like performances. I have no idea. And she says she has no plans to, which I don't know if I believe. I think there's something interesting about just letting these live on the album on on the track and not have it like have any sort of life beyond but what I think is her best music video maybe ever which is ever I feel yeah I actually and I think the song is really good and I just think I just think you're being disingenuous if you don't listen to the first four songs like I understand as the album goes on like people have their differing feelings I both

agree, disagree on certain levels. But, like, she opens this album so strong. I love the fate of Ophelia. A lot of Gaga songs, I'll even say, took me a few listens to be like, oh, I get it. But anyway, I... Not on Mayhem, though. Not on Mayhem. Like, when we, because we did our first lesson of Mayhem together.

With Bobby. Yeah, that was the best. But that, that album, straight through first time, we were like, oh, this is. This is one of her best. Well, that's the album of the year, for sure. But you know what other album I really like, which kind of came out in the midst of all the life of a showgirl stuff, is Olivia Dean's album.

That is going to have a really big moment. I think in all the vocal categories, we'll do very well at the Grammys, I think. Oh, I think Olivia Dean, like, man I need deserves to be the song that takes over. Like, I think that, oh, I want to see Olivia Dean nominated for Best New Art. artist. I want to see Olivia Dean. I would love to see that album get love. I think, man, I need. That could be a record of the year song of the year nomination. A song like that, like, because she, that wasn't like she was some huge name, but I will say, I remember a few

years ago, maybe it was two years ago at Coachella. I was walking by the Gobi tent during the day, and Olivia Dean was performing, and I was like, we have to stop. And she sang a song called The Hardest Thing, which I ended up streaming a ton, and there were something really special about her, so watching her get this moment, the music video for a man I need is so, she's like so in her stardom, it's like a little bit more of like an activated Adele.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. She will be on SNL as the musical guest right the week after nominations are announced. I think her team, her label is probably expecting a very impactful showing in the nominations

so that nominations voting, our awards voting, whatever, is, this is parlaying very nicely. I might really want to go to that show. What date is that? November 15th. Okay. I'm at BravoCon.

That's going to be a good one. That's going to be a good one. Wow, we covered a lot of stuff. We did a lot. And so basically, I just wanted to get on here with Bo because I feel like I know that we're doing a lot of guest episodes, and I just wanted to touch base because so much has been happening and I want you to hear our voices, but we do have an amazing episode with Demi Lovato right now, who is amongst the, you know, albums that we're really enjoying. Also,

shout out Lola Young. And I hope she gets well. Because her album is fantastic, too. But yeah, this episode with Demi is a lot of fun. Enjoy. No one can resist a rule of culture. So here's one for the dating files. Rule of Culture number 72. Chemistry isn't just vibes. It's values. Because what's the point of matching with someone if you can't talk about the shows you binge, the books you dog ear, or all the hot takes, you'll defend it brunch? I mean, you definitely have friends who have met their partners on Bumble, and it makes sense. It's not just about matching with someone.

It's about finding someone who gets your references, your obsessions, your whole vibe. With shared interests and prompts, you don't just see a profile. You get a glimpse of someone's personality, which makes it even easier to start conversations that actually lead somewhere. Plus, with photo and ID verification, you can trust that the person you're talking to is real. With that added piece of mind, it's so much easier to show up as your full self. So whether your rule of culture is, the best first state start with the shared hot take on Renaissance, or compatibility as having the same hometown bodega order, download Bumble and turn those connections into something bigger. Download Bumble and start your love story.

In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild. Not twice. Stunned. But three times.

John and Ann Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular circular home high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality.

They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to hell in heaven on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The forces shaping the world's economies and financial markets can be hard to spot. Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them. And even harder to understand.

Donald Trump's trade war, 2.0, is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in, to connect the dots. How unusual is a deal like this? Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon, we dive deep into one big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing.

They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn. and on my new podcast, here we go again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer,

and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another, financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg,

Stacey Abrams, Lily Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here we go again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ding-dong, Lost Culture Erista's calling. A figure of lore in the Lost Culture Universe is here. Truly. Truly a figure of lore.

She has the number one song on the Great Global Songbook, our 300 songs. We've ranked the 300 best songs ever. What do we always say? Our grandparents had somewhere over the rainbow. Our grandchildren will have cool for the summer. It's a rule of culture somewhere in there. Let's just call it number one. It might as well be number one.

She did place in the iconic 400 list of 400 most iconic people for our 400th episode anniversaries. She beat out Elmo. She beat out Martha Stewart, I believe. Yeah. And I think she beat out Holland Taylor. Just edged out Holland Taylor. Just edged out iconic.

Fischer was one of it was Carrie Fisher 149, Demi Lovato, 150 Colin Taylor 151. This is hallowed ground. I wonder if I don't, we're going to bring our guest in in a second because her new album. Oh. It's not that deep. Like, literally, it is deep to us though, because

I was telling our guest, we had the link to the album in P-Town and they just, they just told us they could see the streams of people listening to the links they sent out and they were like, you guys were running it up. I was like, no. It was serious. I was a shame. at first, and then I immediately was like, no,

why would I be ashamed of loving something? Because did you think they could see it? Well, I was like, they could see it. Oh my God. It's like, it's like, when someone like can like look at your emails or text, it's like vulnerable when someone can see the number of times you've played songs. How much they're obsessed with what you've done probably hits different. It's honestly, it's so deserved.

We've been a fan like from the jump and it's going to be a huge Demi era. So let's talk about it. October 24. Yes, in just a couple days. Please welcome to the show. Dan Milano! Hello, hello, hello. I'm so happy to be here.

We're so happy you're here. Did you know of like the place you hold in our podcast? I do. I have heard the clips and I've seen the support and it just makes me feel so loved. And I was like, I have to show my love right back. So here I am. And I'm so excited. We're so happy.

Number one. So that's like of all the songs. I guess we did that when. What was that like 2020? That was like 2021 was the great global songbook. I don't think any song is unsteed and cool for the summer at this point. Until now, your album. Thank you.

You're so sweet. Thank you. The fact that you're releasing this album as like a fall fucking, like, dance moment is so major because I feel like fall gets like neglected and overlooked as like, oh yeah, like do all your moody shit in the fall. But you're giving us something hyped up. We're still going out. Yeah. Just because it's fall doesn't mean we're not going out. No.

We still need a dance. Yeah, there's a co-check. Yeah, I do feel like Fast was more of, like, a club song. And then Here All Night is a little bit more emotional. Uh-huh. Yeah. But, but, yeah. But Here All Night is emotional while it's like, it's very much giving, like,

dancing on my own. And, like, you're saying something, like, really emotional and painful. But then the music and, like, the whole, like, I mean, like, the whole aesthetic of it is like, fuck, but, like, no, you're dancing to this song about me, like, being fucking crashed out about my ass. Yes. Yes. Yes. But that's the duality. And it is that deep sometimes. It can be that deep for sure. But I'm just like the album title for me, it's not that deep. It's all about like I'm I'm not taking myself too seriously as an artist anymore. Like I'm just having fun. And I wanted a body of work that's really reflective of that. And I feel like I really accomplished it with

this album. So when you're like sitting down to do a new record or when you feel like it's time, were you thinking at first like, I really want to have fun with my next project? Or were you like, let's just see what happens and it was fun? Like what came first, the chicken or the egg? Well, originally, I'm such a fluid person that like I have, I've tried on different genres of music throughout my career. And my last album was a rock album. And so going into the, going into the next album I was like okay I want to continue the rock stuff but as I started writing the rock album I was like I can't really like I'm running out of things to write about because I'm so happy right now there's only so many rock songs you can make like happy rock songs that you can make

today was good yeah and so then they all today was amazing and that's like that's exactly how I felt so I was like I need to like switch directions like it's not resonating with me I'm not angry anymore I'm not in this like a deeply emotional place anymore like I was when I made my last album. And so I started trying on different sounds. And what landed was when I got into the studio with my producer's own. And he had made this beat in the car,

in the Uber on the way to the studio and was like, yeah, I just played, I just made this track. Do you want to hear it? And I'm like, yeah, turned out to be fire. It was, it turned into a song called Frequency. Oh my God. Like, you really went off on that. Thank you.

That's the one, I mean, you repeat all of them because the album, it hits so hard and then you just go back and start it again, us in P-Town. Frequency is a standout. Thank you. You do that so well. Thanks. And that song set the tone for the rest of the project. Yeah. Frequency was first.

Frequency was day one first. I would say it was when the album really took flight. Yep. And when I, when we did frequency, I was like, oh, we're on to something. And I want to chase this sound. And it was new for me. It's different. It's so different than anything I've ever done before.

And I'm just, I'm having so much fun with it. I'm having so much fun in my life. I'm in like such a great place. And I wanted my album to be reflective of that. And so I made a very fun dance pop album. I mean, at this point, I think you've earned this. idea about you, which is like, Demi Lovato is like one of our great

chameleons, like musically, right? Like, but I feel like it maybe took a while for people to realize that because I feel like going from confident to tell me you love me was like, okay, we're like, we're really in this like nice, great bodied like R&B sound. And then you go into all the other. And then holy fuck is like obviously departure.

And then now to go into this genre, I feel like it must be a little overwhelming for you because you can do it all. You can do so many things with your. voice, like what, like, the options are kind of overwhelming, I would say, right? Like, it's good. Like, what makes you think, like, oh, this is what I want to chase. Beyond the fact that, like, your producer sends you this track, which he produced in

his car, don't produce and drive. No, no, no, he was in an Uber. Fine. If he was at the wheel, making that beat. But let's just say he was at the wheel to make it more cable. You know, like, even the Uber drivers are going to hear that sick track and be like, hey, what the fuck is that? Yeah, you're going to get an accident.

I don't know, not even in the Uber's. But what tells you, like, what is that feeling that you have as a songwriter? What inspires me at the time is what I chase. And that's why I've fluctuated over the years with different genres. Janias. Janias. Janias. Janias, baby.

Get to know it. But, like, I really chase what's inspiring me in the moment. And so when I made my rock album, I was really influenced by rock music. And at the time when I made Sorry Not Sorry and Tell Me You Love Me I was really inspired by more R&B music And this project I was really inspired by the pop girlies And that's what I chased

And I'm really happy with it Was that like a result of seeing Everyone else kind of having Because last year was such a crazy moment Like from the top to the bottom of the year It just felt like everyone was having fun again Like which of your peers Like are you inspired by

mostly, or like when you're going into this album. Well, first off, I was really inspired by Kesha for this album. You can hear that for sure. I'm such a fan of hers, but she's also, like, side note, she's such an incredible human being. Like, I just, I fuck with her so much. She's so great. And she was actually the one that was like,

you should get in the studio with Zone. Because they did Joyride together. And amongst other songs, but that was the one that I was like, wait, this is fire. And so she was like, you should get in the studio. studio with Zones. So I did. And that's what ended up, you know. You were in the zone as it were. And I was in the zone. Yeah. Yeah. When you're hearing a track like that, like he plays you this track. I just think if I'm Demi Lovato, I'm like, how do I figure my voice into it? Because you're so

known for what you can do with your voice. And I feel like when you hear a track like that is that, it must be a fun challenge and obviously you conquered it. But I guess my question is, how do you figure your voice into something like that because you hit the chorus and your voice is huge in the chorus and then like your ad libs are sick but i just can't imagine hearing that in the track when you first heard it yeah i didn't i definitely didn't hear like a big vocal moment when i first heard the track i heard the talking verses and the sexiness but then as we started making it we were like we should chase like a kind of brittany vibe in the pre choruses and then um and then when it hit the chorus i i i i i One thing about me is when I'm in the studio, I'm like, where's my vocal moment?

Like, I want to have fun on the track, but like, where's my vocal moment? Because that's what people know me for. And that's what I have fun singing. So that's, yeah, that's where it. 100%. We're going to take a break. I think we have a positive tea coming in. Oh, yes.

Thank you. We've flown in the tea. And that's the tea. And that's the tea. And that's the tea. We often think we know our type in dating, tall, funny, a certain job, but the research shows we're usually not the best predictors of who will actually make us the happiest. As we often say on the Happiness Lab, our minds lie to us about all kinds of stuff.

And that definitely includes the kinds of things we need to be happy in a relationship. That's why it helps to stay curious. On Bumble, features like shared interests and prompts make it easy to notice right on someone's profile initial sparks of compatibility, like a shared love of cooking or the same nostalgic TV shows. Shared interests and prompts let you showcase your personality right on your profile and connect with people who get your vibe. And with photo and ID verification, you can feel confident the person you're talking to is real, so you can date with a bit more confidence.

When you treat dating as exploration, instead of sticking to a rigid type, you open yourself up to happier, more meaningful connections. So maybe your type isn't tall, dark, and mysterious. Maybe it's Love's podcast as much as you do. Stay open, stay curious, and let yourself be surprised. Download Bumble today. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead.

The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild. Not twice. Stoned. But three times. John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular, circular home, high on the top of a hill.

But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday. A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market. What does a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy?

Our breakfast foods are consistent consumers. and so they sort of become outsides indicators of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion dollar payout? There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House. And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't? CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things,

whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a mess. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds, ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy

back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lili Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We go again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What was working with our good friend, our sister, Leland? Leeland.

Brett McLaughlin, one of our besties. Lovely land. The best. He's so talented and he's so fun. That's the thing about working with all of the songwriters on this project was we had such a great time in the studio. Every day was full of laughter. And I think that, you know, translates onto the album. Like, I mean, obviously you're not going to listen to a song and laugh.

But you can tell that we had fun making it. Yeah. And Leland opened up his studio to, and... Laurelvale, we know like much goes down there which I've actually

he's opened it up many times like I just did a fan playback there I know I recognized I was like yeah I think they're at Leelands that weight scouting is familiar

he's been wanting to do that for such a long time he's like I want to have like listening parties here and like do the whole thing so I'm happy it happened me too it's cozy

it's such a cute place but he's so talented and I love working with him he does bring such a spirit of fun I think because like he works on, like, all these different kinds of projects, like, in film and TV, especially with drag

race, where it's just, like, he's not afraid to be, like, whimsical. And it's to have, like, of course, it's like, if you're listening to it and it's like, this is serious. But then, like, I don't know, even the way that you deliver the verse in that song and also kiss, like, you have to be stepping away from the mic sometimes being like, I'm giggling. Like, it's, you can't. I was going to say, kiss, you're giggling. Like, you might not laugh at the songs, but I feel like you are engineering these moments

we're listening at home going like, whoa, that was great. Like, ha, ha. I'm laughing because, like, I do not expect that. Let, let like this. It's such a simple lyric. I kiss for fun. It's fun to kiss. And guess what?

It is not that deep. No. It's not deep. It's not deep. It's simple. People that we run into out there. And it's so, it was so fun to sing. I was having the time of my life in the studio.

I feel like you're able to make something like this. You're able to make a dancey poppy. album like this in context to other albums where you have obviously gone deep. And so therefore, but if you're staying in the depth, it's relative, right? If you're staying in that, then it's not deep because it's just on one, like, dimension.

But if you're doing something fun, it actually makes the other stuff more meaningful in retrospect. Right. It makes this thing more meaningful. Right. Right. Yeah. You and I share, and Bowen as well, but like, our number ones are Kelly Clarkson. Oh, love Kelly Clarkson. I feel like, I was like, I wonder when we asked her the culture question, like,

What was the culture that made you say culture was for you if it would be Kelly? I was going to say American Idol. I was going to say American Idol. That's so funny. Consider this the question. So American Idol, like, go. How did it affect you? Like, what was it about it that made you wake up?

American Idol made me dream. It gave me a sense of hope and possibility that if Kelly Clarkson, this girl from Burleson, Texas could make it on American Idol and have people voting for her. her every week, which I was one of them. If she could make it, then I could. And it gave me hope. And I had so much fun watching the show. She's so talented and she was my first idol.

Yeah, I really think she was my first idol. It meant something extra that you were also in Texas then at the time, probably. So it's completely close to home where you were literally like, oh, if she can do it, I can do it. Yes, exactly. And it was people like, and you were learning about music as you were watching it at home. Like, this is, like, this week we're singing all songs from, like, Gladys Night and the Pips. And then, like, you know, you learn about this. I learned about Gladys Night through Kelly Clarkson on American Idol.

God, I think it must be so hard to be on one of those singing competition shows where you have to learn a new song every week. Yeah. Like, it must be so challenging, but she did that. Yeah. Like, she really did that. And I'm sure most of the songs that she sang, she already knew, or at least it felt that way. Yeah. And I just think she's amazing.

Were you, like, writing your own songs? Because, like, I think what kind of gets, not lost, but I feel like what people don't realize is that, like, you were writing your own CDs, you were, like, selling them in your neighborhood when you were going on. I was. You know that? Yeah.

Oh, my God. Oh, that's so cute. Oh, that's so cute. I love that. It was in your, it was in your movie that you directed. You're right, you're right. Yes. It was, like, the whole family talking about, like, yeah, Demi would, like,

sell her CD for $10 and, like, walk around the neighborhood. I would go around the neighborhood, and I'd sell my, CDs in order to like pay for vocal lessons but also pay for the beauty pageants I was in because those were not cheap right and um god but I worked really I've been working hard for a really long time even as a kid yeah yeah I think that's why it's so great to see you having so much fun with this and doing something that's clearly like I don't know I bet you can look back to when you started out on Disney channel whatever and you if you sometimes I wish I could like reach back to my younger self and is like, check out this thing you did from now. You're like, oh, I'm having fun in the

future. Yeah. Like, thank God. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's a combination of things. I think it's the place where I'm at in my life today. It's also the team I have around me. The team that I have ever, like it never feels like work. Like I did probably 11 interviews today. And it didn't feel like work because in between interviews, I'm joking and I'm laughing with my team who's so supportive and they're fans of the work that I'm creating. So it like, it just feels, it just feels so fulfilling. And, um, yeah. I was going to ask and I texted him this morning. I was like, do you think it's okay if I asked me like about like what it's like working with you? Like, like, like, Brandon Creed. Yeah. I was like, because I've gotten to know him through like just like hanging out with Ari or like

hanging out with Charlie or something. Like he's just like, I think he is. And, like, whether or not, I asked me because I was like, I don't know if you feel okay being, like, a discussion point. But I feel like he, like, is obviously getting his shine as a manager. But I feel like he's doing something really special and focused with all of his clients. Yes. I want to ask, like, what your relationship is with him because it feels like you guys are, like, unlocking something together. It's so authentic, but joyful, but cool, but, like, all of these things. And still you.

And still you. I think what's so great about working with Brandon is not only is he's such an incredible manager. he's killing it right now. Look at his roster. I mean, like, every day he's posting something new from one of his artists. And I'm like, yes, that's my manager. Go. And but also working with him is he's given me so much insight.

And like, he's so brilliant. And so, you know, he has led me in the right directions. And he set me up with the right people who have helped me create such an incredible rollout for this project that feels different, more different than anything I've ever created. And I really have him to credit for that. Yeah. The album cover was something I wasn't expecting because it's you, like, a little bit distant, surrounded. And I'm just thinking about, like, how it's a perfect album cover because it's like the center is like unmistakably you, but there is a community there. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, can you talk about the album art? Yes. So the album art, it was shot by Daniel Satchen. And it was actually, we shot it on the day that I shot the fast music video. Sick. Oh, by the way, love. Thank you.

You're staying so galvanized through the destruction. Thank you. Well, we wanted to capture that on the album cover too. Yeah. So there's all this chaos around me and it's no secret that I live this very public life. I'm on display 24-7 and, you know, I'm naked on the album cover holding a dry cleaning bag. And so it's showing me in a very vulnerable state, but like unfazed by the chaos. And something also that's really nice is that there's the we heart our customers on the dry cleaning bag.

It's like, that's an ode to my fans. This album is for my fans. We heart our customers. We heart our levotics. We heart our customers title of us. And then lastly, if there's one thing about me, if there is a photo, I will lock the fuck in. And that's what I do.

You do. You're locking in. I locked in on that. Are we smiling or serving? Are we smiling or serving? We're always serving. Do you ask yourself that in the beginning of the day for you? Like, sometimes I wonder, like, you know, how early does it start?

Or it depends on. How early the photographs are being taken. Period. If there's a picture outside of my bedroom when I first wake up in the morning, I will serve. Yes. Yeah. Doesn't matter. You know what I think is like a glam or not.

Yeah, glamor not. A little known fact that I was so gagged by when I was in high school was I was obsessed with desperate housewives. And that's your little sister. Yes. Madison. What? Little Solis. Oh, my God.

Gabby's daughter. Yeah, yeah. That's my little sister. Juanina Solis. Yes. That is amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The fact that should be known in culture, I think.

Like, that's like Demi's sister. Yes. Yes. Oh, my God. Madison. Yeah. So cute. This is showbiz royalty, this family.

Damn. Yeah, it's true. So, like, when you were, like, going up and, like, you see her on a huge show, were you protective or were you supportive as, like, a mixture of both? I think at the time, I wish I had been a little bit more protective, to be honest, because that role was, I think, really challenging for her at such a young age. And I think I had been. distracted by my own stuff going on, unfortunately. And so I live with some regret in that

aspect. But also, there's only so much you can do as a 15, 16, 17 year old. Right. You're not like a hardened veteran of the business. You're like starting out in your own way. I was starting out too. And my family and I were new to this industry. And we just happened to both get opportunities that were really big for the both of us at the same time, which happened to move us all out to L.A. And yeah, I think I do have a little bit of regret because I think it was a difficult role for her. You know, there was a lot of scrutiny in the show about her body

and I hate that. But I think, you know, she's so strong and she's so amazing that she turned out so great and you know, I'm so proud of her. She did incredible work on that show. Yeah, she was very, very memorable on it. We all remember

like the tussles that Gabby and Juanita would get into. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was extremely talented. Like, she was very galvanized in the And they were very good together. Yeah, they were. You bought the relationship. Eva. But I feel like it's the saying where I hope you don't carry that regret too heavily because

it's like it's like the airplane mask rule. It's like you have to take care of yourself before you take care of someone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I have like an interesting perspective on it today. Like we talked about it in my child star documentary. And she opened up and was vulnerable with me then. And I think that in that moment, that's when I realized the effect that the show had on her. Right.

And so. But I'm, I've all. always been protective over her. She's my baby sister. And she always will be. Yeah. I mean, just to speak on the documentary of it all, like not even, not even just child star, but I feel like the fact that you have gone through all of this, just development on yourself is so amazing because you, you are one of the only pop girlies who, like, is honest. You're willing to go there. Like, you've done the work of, like, self-examining. And not a lot of people do that publicly. And like, whenever people document like my struggles, I'm like, oh, wait, this is,

this is a little too much, not even that it, it doesn't even compare to you, but I'm just like, this is a weird feeling. And I feel like the fact that you've been so brave in doing those things is like, is incredible. That's why people root for you. Thank you. Honestly. I had a decision that had to be made when I had gone to treatment for the first time. I had this very public outburst, and when I was 18, and which I talk about in some of my documentaries, but God, there's so many. They're all amazing. I always love watching them.

We want the first one together. Yes. It's because of this very thing. It's because there is no bullshit with you. Right. And in that moment, my manager at the time asked me, like, do you want to be public with what you're going through? Or do you want to sweep it under the rug and not talk about it, which you have a right to

both? You don't have, you don't owe anybody anything. But I was like, I didn't have a role model at 13 that was speaking up about eating disorders. And I was like, I need to be that role model for someone else. Like, it was this responsibility that I was willing to take on because I wish that I could have had that growing up. Like, there were older actresses that had come out and talked about having an eating disorder, but nobody that I could relate to at 13. Yeah.

Especially at the time when the beauty standards were, you know, very, very dangerous. And so I wanted to be that for other people. And that's kind of the catalyst for why I've been open about all of my struggles is in that moment when I made that decision, it set the tone for the rest of my life of like, you know, I want to help people. And the best way that I know how is sharing my personal experience with them. Yeah. I feel like also too when you talk earlier about like I sat down and like I couldn't even write angry. or sad songs if I tried. Like, this is the way I'm feeling.

I'm feeling happy. You can even hear in your voice, like, just the way you choose which notes. It's, like, incredibly emotional and, like, also very characterized. Like, you can't lie in your music. It feels like. And one of my favorite songs is in my head on the new album. I can do everything on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My husband wrote that song. Wow. Did you do? Yes, he did. Brilliant. Because it's like it's this incredibly Like honest thing and also the way you've chosen the melody I could do anything on that

Like it's almost like you're like like arguing or someone or like kind of like rationalizing And it's in the melody line in a way that feels so honest so and then when on tell me you love me Which is I think my favorite album of yours besides this one like the way you choose when to be powerful When to descend when to like Have like a moment that trails off. It's just, it's all really rooted. And I can tell, like, you listening to, like, the best singers, the most honest, emotional singers. And so I think you didn't really have a choice, but to be honest, because it's in your art. I grew up singing to very soulful singers.

I grew up singing to Aretha and Whitney and Christina and Kelly. And they all had soul in their voice and that's what drew me in as a child was like oh there's like depth there and i i don't even think i was conscious of it but there was just something that made me feel what they were singing about so deeply that i was like that's just what i want to like that's the kind of vocalist i want to be yeah yeah do you have like an unsung hero american idol contestant like someone from way back that you're like oh this person was somewhat like because kelly obviously famously But, like, I always look back and, like, it's so crazy. It'll just jump out of my mind from that age when you remember it everything.

But, like, Trinise from season two. Kimberly Locke from season two. Oh, my God, Kimberly Locke. Remember Eighth, World Wonder? That bop? No. She released a single after it. And it actually is a bop.

We performed it at our culture awards two years ago, full out. The year after we did cool for the summer at our culture awards. Yeah, exactly. That's the point. Okay. But what were you going to say? Kimberly Law. I wasn't like, it was released.

season one that did it for me. Yeah, totally. After season one, I was like, okay, it's great. Now I'm doing it. No, I was still young. I still watched. But it just didn't have the chokehold on me that Kelly's season had. But they were incredible vocalists

on all of those seasons, and there still are. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, you check back in, and now there's so many of them, we take it for granted. But, like, America's got talent, has incredible people that come through. The voice, obviously, sometimes I put on the voice and I'm like, these, I can't believe this is even a live vocal in this blind audition.

You know who has one of the best vocalists, or one of the best vocals from American Idol, period, is Adam Lambert. Oh, period. He's on an unsung hero. He's a hero. Yeah. But, like, his voice is just insane. Yeah. He is one that he's also one of the most expressive.

And he never even shied away from being camp. I remember one time he's been feeling good in a white suit. And he, like, descended the stairs. And he was so, like, he wasn't, like, out gay at the time because that was still weird at this. in the public, but he was announcing himself so much. And I remember the next day I went into school and some girls were talking about American Idol and I kind of like, you know, shuffled over. And a couple of them were like, yeah, my mom didn't want to vote for him anymore after that performance. And I was like, wow, how far we've come.

Yeah. That like so many artists can express themselves like however they want because he was on the biggest show in the world at that time with that crazy expressive voice so emotional. And he also was himself. Yeah. And made it really far. From the get-go. Exactly. Always himself.

Didn't win. And I wonder would he have won, you know, five years ago, today, who knows? Like, maybe. Yeah, maybe. He was that brilliant. No, his voice is just, it's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah.

I was asking about the, well, I brought up the CDs earlier because there was a moment in Child Star that, like, really gave me pause where, you know, you were talking about playing these songs they'd written for execs. And they were like, no, no, what we were in. to and that kind of was let's put you up with these producers and songwriters which you know you did with the plum like you succeeded in that regard of like working with others as a collaborator great skill to have but that it chipped away like this confidence that I had went out the window for a period of time and even today sometimes I'll go into the studio and I'm like is this a good idea or like and I rely on my co-writers a lot to say like you know do we need to fix this lyric or is it good and they give me their opinions, which is why I love co-writing.

I love the collaboration of like having the input of other people and having their brilliant ideas come to the surface because I really think if you want to create the best body of work that you possibly can, like it's good to have feedback. But when I was 15, I went and played my demo basically for my manager at the time. And it was really unfortunate because he'd, He wasn't mean about it. It just there wasn't like a positive reception on what I was writing.

He was like, oh, okay. But let's get you in the studio. And I was like, I've, I used to be the type of artist that would sing and like play my guitar and sing until six in the morning. Like my dad would be getting up, getting ready for work and would be like, Demi, go to bed, stop singing. And I would just be in my room and I'd be like, you know, a little manic. But no, you were in a fire. You were creative. Exactly.

And I stopped doing it at that age. And I started second guessing myself. And I think it's something that has, because that happened at such a young age, it's still embedded in me a little bit. Like there is some self-doubt when it comes to my songwriting. Not my vocals. I know I'm that bitch with my vocals. But like, you know, with the songwriting, it was, it definitely,

put self-doubt in my head, which was kind of sad. That is devastating to hear because it is something that, like, I don't know, we relate to this on like a performance, like comedy level, obviously. Yes. And like it's just this thing that like, and I'm like, if you've read the artist's way, like she talks all about, like those first people who like snuff out that thing in you are devastating. And it's going to take you a long time to get over it.

But I feel like I bring this up too because Brett Leland was telling us like, oh, Demi comes into the studio. studio, she's a fucking beast. And she knows what she wants. She knows how to construct a song. She knows how to songwrite. Yes. And like I hope that in making this album,

you've kind of like healed that confidence. I was going to say that this album was really healing for that part of myself. Because there were days when I was in the studio and I came up with the hook or I came up with this and the concept of the song. And like, I really do have a vision and I had a vision with this album. But there were also days where I'd come into the studio and be like, I have no idea what to write about today. Let's just wing it.

And we would come up with something great. And like frequency, that wasn't like a concept that I came into the studio with of like, we need to write a song about this. It was just the, I matched the vibes of the track with the lyrics. And we came up with something great. So, yeah, I think it has been healing for me as like recognizing my worth as a songwriter has shown through on this project. Love it. What about live?

Are we hitting the road? You don't have to reveal, but you could. There's nothing set in stone right the second, but there's definitely play. You have to. We were talking earlier. We were listening to it for the millionth time. And people that were hearing it for the first time were like, when is it going on tour? It's like one of those.

Thanks. It does feel a lot like, I remember we saw the sweat tour at Madison Square Garden. And it felt like the place was going to flip over. And I was like music like this, that's like this type of sound and that type of space. You just can't recreate it anywhere. Yeah. Like, especially when you can, like, attach an amazing hook to it like you have. And it's going to be really sick, live.

I haven't toured in three years. So it's time. And I definitely want to. I miss seeing the reactions of my fans face it on their faces when I play their favorite songs. And the emotions that they, you know, convey when they're sitting in the, when they're standing in the audience. and I sing skyscraper and the tears flowing down their faces

like I really do miss that connection. You've got so many hits. Do you have one? Do you have one where you're like, okay, this one here we go and then by the end you're like, yeah, that one. It used to be give your heart a break.

When I got back on stage, I started playing it again for the first time. I would say like a couple years ago. I hadn't played it in so much. long because I was just like, I'm tired of this song. Sure, you're allowed. But, and you're allowed to change your live show and, and play songs that you want to and take out songs that you don't.

But I, when I performed that for the first time in years, the reaction was so great that I was like, wait, I love this. Yeah, you forget what it felt like. Yes. Because then the element of like surprise and nostalgia kicks in and you're like, oh my God, I remember all the words to it. It's formative. It brings you back to it.

a time when you were like, you know. And it's a crowd favorite. So like, I love seeing their reaction too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what do you think you're channeling while you sing? Let's just talk about like the vocals. Like, do you feel something like passed through you?

I love it when like, and it doesn't have to be true, but I love it when certain singers and vocalists are like, oh, no, I'm like, I'm connecting with something high or lower or whatever or I'm like playing a character. Like, is there, is there anything qualitatively true about this? When I'm in my flow stage, absolutely. There's something that comes over me and comes up with ad libs and new high notes that I didn't think about before when I recorded the album that, like, I can't explain. But a lot of times I get into my head when I'm performing because I am such a perfectionist. So, like, if I'm out of my head, absolutely.

But when I'm in my head, I'm not channeling. So hard. It's so hard. Because I was going to say, like, is there a way to translate that to, like, the songwriting experience? which sounds like there was. Like, you were, like, in these flow states in the studio coming up with the hooks. Yeah. It's just the thing you can't force, which is kind of the sucky thing.

But, like, the flow state is, like, the number one, like, thing that human beings chase the most across all cultures. It's like this feeling of, like, losing track of time. It reminds me of the movie soul. Oh, yeah. You know, like, that's what I chase with music. And the second that it stops feeling like the movie soul, I have to put a pause. on it. You know what I mean?

I have to reconnect with the music. That is an amazing movie that that is about that exact thing. Yeah, I love that movie. Just about how music just kind of like, is this like, is like the way that like our lives kind of like get constructed or like they frame our lives in a certain. Yeah. You know, it's the most incredible thing that human beings are capable of doing and sharing, I think is music.

Like the way that you can just like, that's be Ernest McGee over here. But, like, it's true. Like, the way that, I mean, it really can change things. It transcends lyrics, like, or language. It transcends language. Like, you don't, I could be listening to a song that's in a different language, but I can, it'll make me weep if it's the right chords and the right emotion behind it. You know what I'm saying?

And it's, it's so beautiful how universal it is. You have this moment on Let You Go, which is this synth after, at the end of the chorus. Yes. Like, I'm just like, again, we were vibing in Ptown. Like, I'm on the deck. Like, I have my, like, shades not on like those. I remember those, Oakley's? I was kind of feeling my, like, Demi, josh.

And then just that sin that was like, that is really special. It's good. Who found that? Zone. Yeah, that's zone. Zone is brilliant. Do you ever come in, like, singing things and hearing things that you know are going to be vocal stuff? Yeah, absolutely.

Sometimes I'll, I have my, my. voice notes on my phone are just like, there's got to be a thousand of them. And sometimes it's just like, da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. And then like, that will turn into a synth or it'll turn into a song. Like, I'm not sure what it, but like sometimes I'll just come up with something like that and it'll be on a voice note in my phone. It just felt so intentional that part of the song. It feels like, it feels like one of those lines that you really remember.

It feels very classic. Good. You know what I mean? That makes me happy. Thank you. Something a little bit retro about the way that synth sounds too, that sort of airiness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Do you say you had listening parties at, you've already had some of the fan experiences? Yes, I've had two fan playbacks. How were they? God, it was so much fun. It was so fun to see my fans, like, they got up and danced, you know, and kiss on here all night, on fast. And then they really, like, took in the other songs. And watching them take it in was. it was really impactful for me because I made these songs from such a vulnerable place

and here they are connecting with them and it's resonating with them like it makes it all worth it being that vulnerable in front of you know all these people like it just makes it worth it and um and yeah seeing their emotional reaction to it was was awesome but also like seeing them have so much fun yeah was also amazing like I wonder like who it's more rewarding for like not that it's like that it is more rewarding for one particular group but it's like it's just as rewarding for you and zone and Leland and everyone who's worked on this album to see how people like this is your first test audience really it's the first time you're seeing people respond to it yes and it is telling you it's a lot of information for you yes you know what I

mean yeah and so it's valuable for you it's valuable for that it's valuable for me because I get to see like what are the fan favorites what are the ones that they're going to go crazy for at the show that I need to do something a little extra for. Or is there a song that I want to put out as a single because it's in demand with the fans? You know what I mean? It's like that information is very valuable to me as an artist. I thought to be like the Tell Me You Love Me is to stay on here.

But that album is, again, up until now, my favorite. You and Jesse Williams in the video for Tell Me You Love Me. Oh, my God, yes. Can I say you were acting down and you forget your background in that? Thank you. On camera acting, like, you really could have, like, more presence in it than you do. Is that something that interests you because... I'm, like, so insecure as an actress.

Really? You couldn't tell because you were really great and dropped in that. Thank you. I feel like I took a break for so long from acting that I'm, like, scared to get back into it. And I've had offers. And I have acted. I did an independent film called Toe last year. or yeah last year

and then it came out at Tribeca Film Festival this year and it was fun. It was like I dipped my toes it was a small role I dipped my toes back into acting and I had a lot of fun with it and it was something that I think

I want to do but like I just have to like I don't know I feel like I need to do acting lessons or something. It's the perfectionist thing again yes. Yeah are you, what's your sign?

I'm a Leo. Okay, yeah. Are Leo's perfectionist? I don't know about them as perfectionist. I was going to say it's like, it feels like a, like a Virgo, Jason, or Leo thing. Okay. Do you have Virgo in your chart somewhere?

I feel like this is just... Maybe. I did my chart one time and then forgot it. No problem. What's that? Well, we're Pisci Scorpio, which is like easy for us to remember because they're so combative. I know I'm a double Leo. Okay.

So that's a lot of Leo. That's a lot of Leo. I got a lion on my hand to show for it. That's really beautiful. Thank you. Do you have a lot of tattoos? I do. Yeah.

What's the mystery? I do. I do. I do. It was, I feel like I went so hard on tattoos at such a young age. But I'm like, I wish I had been more selective with my tattoos. But there are ones that I really love. My most recent one was, this says, I love you more.

It's my mom's handwriting. Oh, my mom and I say the same thing. Oh, cute. Yeah, I love you more. It's so funny, my mom and I will be on the phone and like we'll go to hang up. And right before someone hangs up, she'll go, I love you more. It's like we have to say goodbye with that. We have the acronym, L-U-U-M, and I say L-M-M-M-L-M, love me.

Oh, my God. And it's almost like a conversation can't really be over unless that's been typed. Yes. You know what I mean? You got a violent with our thing. We're so close my mom and I. I'm so close with my mom. She's such an angel.

So, yeah, I got that tattooed and that was my most recent one. Because I feel like your husband, your husband is tatted up. Oh, he has tatted the fuck out. So that's fine. It's not like you have to like convert to someone. No, it's just like had a little bit. I wish I had thought more about it. rather than getting all these impulsive tattoos

that I did, you know? Do you have any, well, maybe you all want to share this, but are there any tattoos that like, whenever you look at it, you're like, oh, it's a person? Um, I have one. You're like, oh, that's never going to not remind me. I know, I have one that's like that. And it is what it is.

It's what it is. And honestly, it's almost kind of nice. Because I remember I only have three small ones, but in preparing to get them, And probably you too. It's kind of like, okay, you're going to look at this forever. Like, are you going to regret it? It's weird.

Like, even the ones you regret, you think warmly about the time that you got. Yeah, like, it was still a cool story behind the tattoo that I got. But do I wish I didn't get a matching tattoo with someone? Yes. You have to be sure about matching tattoos. It's for the culture number 20. No, I think you have to be sure about matching tattoos. I think you don't do it.

I think it's, like, cursed. Yeah. The idea of matching tattoos being cursed. Yes. I don't like. matching tattoos. It's just like, I don't know. Because it binds you to someone,

it's almost like a contract. No, it's just like, I just feel like every time I've, like I've gotten two matching tattoos and it just didn't end up well. So like rule of, and then I've had like ex-boyfriends get my name on them and that didn't work out.

That never worked. And so I just feel like real of them like it's just not a good idea. Okay. Yeah. I think, yeah, make it a law. We've been talking about getting a matching one. I think we can.

I don't know. Maybe you do like a variation. Like, like me and Matthew Scott. If me and Matthew Scott, my best friend, yes. Um, who you guys know and adore him. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um, if we were to get a matching tattoo. Like we've talked about getting like a little bat or something for Halloween. Like if he got a bat, I would get a pumpkin. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like something a little, like a variation where it's not like so. Yeah, yeah, it's so exact, totally. He really is your right or die. I feel like he's been in every era. Every era. Yeah. We are so close. I am obsessed with him.

I don't know what I would do without him. He's my heart and soul. I love that. You need that person too. Like, it's just like that you can be truly honest with. Yes. Like, we need to step away from a second. Like, even in a small community of people that I do trust, like, you need your person.

He is my person that like before Jordan and I got to. I would call in the middle of the night and be like, hey, I'm lonely. And like, you don't have to say anything back, but I just need to express like how sad I am right now. And he would be there for me in the middle of the night and be like, let's talk about it. And like, that's the kind of friendship that everyone needs, I think. You are so incredibly lucky to even have that thing because it's not that I don't even love my sister, but it's like, I'm like, I'm not going to bother him out with this. We've all had these lonely moments at night where I'm like, well, you can. I know, I know.

But it's like, careful what you wish for. Girl, I'm wishing. Oh. Oh, my sister. But it's like, that's a really hard thing to find. He's just mad because I used to call him years ago when I used to wait tables. And I would get off my shift and we'd have a couple drinks after work. And I'd call him to call me an Uber because I wouldn't download it on my phone.

I didn't think it could download. So whenever he thinks of me and the concept of calling late at night, he's like, oh, he needs an Uber home. He needs an Uber. That was a decade ago. And I'm much more together now. We're past it. I have a lot of amazing friends in my life, but I have this core group of best friends. And I mean, I could list them off, but they're just like, they're, I had so many bridesmaids in my wedding because I have so many close, close, close, best friends.

And that support is just like what gets me through life. Like, I just, I love my friends so much. That wedding was fucking chic. Thank you. She looked amazing. Thank you so much. Oh my God, didn't he look so handsome? Yeah.

Yeah. You get a good one. I do. And you look at how you like emanate. Oh, thanks. Well, you've always had one of the best smiles. I'll never forget when I first saw you. My first thought was like, oh my God, that girl's smile is incredible.

I used to be really insecure about my smile. I used to joke that it eats my face because it's so big and it just like takes over. No, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's. It's such a, it's like you really carry the light when you smile. Thank you. I've learned to appreciate my smile. Because there were times where I wasn't smiling and that was sad. And now I'm like, you know what?

We love you serving too. So it's hard because like, do you tell them about or not to serve? I mean, that's not what I was talking about. But I appreciate that too. Of course. Yeah. I mean, that's, I guess, what's so great about like the phase of your career that you're in and what other people, like other people that we have.

all watched for now going on like 20 years and because we're like a little bit older than you but still like that was like our generation of like you know personally watched on TV and then transitioned into this new stage of the career and I think like we do like as fans of yours share like a knowledge of everything you've been through and that's why it's like to see you having fun is like a huge gift because I always remember that girl I first saw smiling and so. So, like, it's just great to see you smile again about your husband and about this project. Yeah. Because when I think of you, I think of a huge, like, smile that carries the life.

Thank you. That's so sweet. Thank you so much. We love you. Love you, too. This is a Levotic podcast. This is been a Levotic. Wait, how do you feel about Levotic?

Because Ari is on record being like, Arionator is not something she decided. I didn't decide Levotic. Well, of course. And I was like, where did that come from? It was kind of confusing to me. I was like, are you an addict or are you like... An alcoholic. Yeah, I don't...

It's some sort of obsession. But I've embraced it and I've learned to love it. Yeah. But at first I was like, huh? It was also at the beginning of like, Stan names. Yeah, kind of, right? And when everyone came up with it, I was like, I think I was like, I was in treatment. And they were like, yeah, your fans are calling you levotics now.

And I was like, wait. Are they reading me? Are they reading? Yeah. Exactly. Is this coming from a nasty place? It's not the right time. It's not the right time.

But I came out and everyone had like a stand name and I was assigned for it and I was like, I'll take it. Whatever. Do you remember Kelly's? A celebrity. No. It was bad. It was terrible. What?

So this is how you know that like I was in deep because one day like on the Kelly Clarkson message boards. Yes, I was a little gay child. Hi. My name is Matt. But they were like, we're Calibriety. This is the Calabity group. And even me at the time who would have done anything. I was just like, I don't like this.

I'm not going to hold up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But LeVotic, we can make peace with. I mean, is there really a good fan-based name? The Navy is really chic. The Navy is monsters. Monsters, that's good. Yeah, little monsters.

You should put it to a vote. You should, for now, they're called LeVotics, but like, everybody, like, well, I don't know. I think, like, you guys, I'm going to give you options, and then you guys come up with it. You have to go on the right one. You know what I mean? I don't know. I think it would make a lot of people upset. Yeah.

Listen, we adjusted to the name Levitic years ago. We did. That's what everyone reveals and no one wanted to do it. Like, what do you mean? No one sent anything? We could have been called the, I don't know,

what's a Navy thing? The force. The force. We keep adding. We keep adding. I'm like going too hard on military names. Sorry, everybody. You don't have to be Marines to like this album.

You can be Levitics. No one can resist a rule of culture. So here's one for the dating files. Rule of culture number 72. Chemistry isn't just vibes, it's values. Because what's the point of matching with someone if you can't talk about the shows you binge, the books you dog ear,

or all the hot takes, you'll defend it brunch? I mean, you definitely have friends who have met their partners on Bumble, and it makes sense. It's not just about matching with someone. It's about finding someone who gets your references, your obsessions, your whole. your whole vibe.

With shared interests and prompts, you don't just see a profile. You get a glimpse of someone's personality, which makes it even easier to start conversations that actually lead somewhere. Plus, with photo and ID verification, you can trust that the person you're talking to is real. With that added peace of mind,

it's so much easier to show up as your full self. So whether your rule of culture is, the best first date start with the shared hot take on Renaissance or compatibility as having the same hometown bodega order, download Bumble, and turn those connections into something bigger. Download Bumble and start your love story. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead.

The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild. Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Ann Bender are rich and attractive. And they're devoted to each other.

They create a nature reserve and build a sense. spectacular circular home, high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble. And our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday. A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market. What does a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy?

Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsize indicators of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion dollar payout? There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House. And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't? CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure.

Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your pay. podcasts. Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host.

Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lily Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is.

But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to here we go again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, well, I think it might be time for you. Speaking of tea. And you're going to need it because we're going to transition into I don't think so honey. This is our 60 second segment on this podcast where we take something in culture that bugs us, that bothers us and more. and we absolutely let it rip. I have something, it's this season,

and I'm starting to see something pop up again, and I want to put it to bed right now. Okay, you have your phone on here, so I think you should time, I'll time you. Okay, so this is... Well, you say the key in. Yeah. This is Matt Rogers.

I don't think so, honey, as time starts now. I don't think so, honey, anyone making fun of me for Pumpkin Spice. Oh, come on. You're 10 years late on this read. Okay, the Basic Girls drink Pumpkin Spice thing happened already.

Now you sound basic. I am still here. I'm still here. I'm still queer. I'm still the one. I've always been a pumpkin spice person. And yes, I do get it in a frap.

And I know that makes it more basic. But I don't think so, honey, your comments penetrating me. Rubber glue, babe. I don't think so, honey, anyone telling me anything about the pumpkin spice, whether it comes in the form of coffee,

whether it comes in the form of muffin, it honestly is the best flavor. Come for me. Apple cinnamon beats it. Apple cinnamon beats it. Blueberry, get lost. I'm sorry,

but this choke that blueberry flavor has on, you know, culture, no, it is about pumpkin spice. And I think we fucked up

by making it seasonal. It should be all year round. Then it would be a main thing. I mean, I wouldn't have this nightmare of every season. Oh, here come the basic

pumpkin spice girl is again. Yeah, here I am. And I don't think so honey. And that's one minute. Oh, my God. That was so good. How do I follow that?

You do it in your own way. Do it in your own way. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm intimidated now. Don't be, don't be. But do you know what? Are you a pumpkin spice person?

Yes. Come on. Come on. Something that has only been able, the only thing that's been able to save SNL writers some nights when we write on Tuesdays, a fucking pumpkin spice rapuccino. Yeah, come on. It makes you happy.

The endorphins are soaring when you're drinking one of those. Yes. It's like an affrontic. It's delicious. It's so good. Everybody, everybody cut it out. And I just, it's like, you know, we just got our little first nip of fall. and already, like, people take into their stories.

Like, it's the first time anyone's ever said this. No. I'm like, I'm true to this. How quickly we forget. You're not new to this. You're true to this. No, I've been out here out and proud, and I'm sorry, but I still stand. Okay, you ready?

I am ready. Okay, this is Bone Yang's. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey, we didn't have a song of the summer when Fast by Demi Lovato was right fucking there in the eyeline. How dare you? She's giving you incredible visuals.

vocals, and completely serving cunt while chaos is around her. Explosions and more. You were being fed a feast that was nutritious, ethically made, gorgeously performed, and still you're like pushing your plate away going, I don't know, we didn't get served dinner tonight. You were given something so premium. And now that it's the fall, and now that this album, it's not that deep as coming out,

this is your second chance at redeeming your little mind and understanding that you've been given something incredible. 15 seconds. Stream it now, October 24th, or whenever this comes out, do it today. I'm telling you, you won't regret it. It's got bangor after banger, and it ends in one perfect ballad that ties the whole album sonically together, and we are so lucky to have Demi Lovato here on our podcast.

That's one minute. Yes. That was amazing, and also that was mine. What? I know. I know. I know. Do your version.

Do your version. Okay. Are you ready? Yes. Yes. Yes, this is Demi Lovato's. I don't think so, honey. Your time starts now.

I don't think so, honey. There's no song of the summer. What are you talking about? Not only did I release fast. Thank you very much. But there's so many incredible songs that came out this summer with all the pop girlies having their moments. I mean, you've got Adela.

Who I stand so hard. You've got Gaga. You've got Sabrina. You've got Tate McCray. You've got Keshah, you've got Kim Petras, you've got 30 seconds. You've got all of these incredible, incredible artists. And that's just like the tip of the iceberg.

I could keep going about how incredible these pop girlies are and so inspiring to me. But I think you get stuck on, everyone has brain rot now. And they can't think past the 30 second TikTok mark, which I totally relate. I'm on TikTok too. Five seconds. But there was so. of the summer. And if you are looking for one, just stream fast. Yes! That was like so honey! That is Demi Lovato tearing it up.

Just like she did on the album. So I was about other pop girlies. I was gonna say like, oh my god, you, not you lifting up all these girlies, like that's so special and beautiful. Well, they deserve their shine. Yes. Also, you know what? Like fast, incredible, like, man child, incredible. Like, no one really talked about no broke boys as the song of the song. Oh, it was so good. Like, and you, even like when people online make those things, list of like, here's everything it could have been. And it's like this list. It's like, no brook boys isn't even on any of that.

I'm like, did it come out too soon? Because it came out. Yeah. Technically came out on, on Tanishi's album last year, which maybe people are, but there's no cutoff. There's no cutoff. There's no cutoff. Cool for the summer came back 10 years later with a vengeance.

Yeah, here we got. I was playing the sped up version two. I was giving you streams. And people loved it. So like, there's no time limit on this stuff. No. You have had like one. Are you like aware that sorry, not sorry is the best.

drag race lip sync of all time. Like, no contest. I'm aware. I'm fully aware. I gagged. Yeah, just like the way that they were tearing themselves apart. It was so fucking good. Yeah, and then they ended up being the top too. Right, but it's like they're not able to do that unless you supply the vocal.

Thank you. You're motivating them to fucking do that. I still go back and watch that performance. As you should. I mean, let's just say this. A lot of my friends are looking forward to my drag performance of here all night based on what I did in peace house. Yes. Because it is like,

Bha! You know what I mean? There's like little sting. What was I doing? I was like running and going and then like letting it take you back around. One of these days, you know, I'll get into some look that references or does not reference, who knows. But like, yeah, no, that song is like, it's built into the track and I'm like, I was looking at, so Brett played it for us. We were working on our award show and he's producing songs for it.

He was like, I can play you the single that I think is going to be the single. It wasn't decided yet. but I can play it for you guys once. We're like, do it. And so, listening to it, I was just like, you really gave the queen something to chew on here. Thank you. There's so much, like, movement in it and energy into it

and, like, stings that make it fun to perform. Yes. It's so fun to sing. Like, I can't wait to perform that one live. Yeah. Oh, I know. I'm excited about that because you have not performed it live yet, obviously. Yes, fresh out. See, it's weird because, like, we've had the album now for several weeks.

So already I'm, like, off book on a lot. Yep. Oh, good. We know the words. It's been in the rotation. I love that. Thank you. Kiss is going to be a monster.

I'm so excited about Kiss. That has to be a single, right? Well. Well. We'll just have to wait and see. I never know. I never know because, like, sometimes it's like, at least it used to be in the old days. Maybe you agree as being one of the girls.

Like, it felt like if you put out two singles that were really up tempo, the third one, like, had to give more of, like, introspective ballad moment, especially when you're you and can serve that. Thank you. But it's, I guess you don't feel the hold of it to tell you all the next single when we're off the air. Okay, good. And I want to hear your thoughts behind it. It could be so many things.

Thank you. So I'm so excited. Yeah. I think I think I have my next single planned, but there's also a moment for what the fans really want. And we're trying to like figure out what that looks like. Yeah. So we'll see.

It's good that you're not being rigid about it then. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah. I'm really not. Has that ever happened in the past, like, where one song, because I have to tell you, I put on my story the other day, just tell me you love me. I was like, this album, like, revisited it just because I was revisiting it. And the number of people that responded being, like, daddy issues. Oh, my God.

Yes. That song has its grips in people, even all these years later. Like, have the fans' response ever fully dictated a single choice? Yes. Yes. It has happened. Yes. I would say like give your heart a break. Really? That one too. Like I didn't actually want to release that as a single.

I was like, it's a cute pop song, but like I don't know that I want to go and promote Give Your Heart a Break as like my single. And then you have to do it all the time. You have to do it all the time. And I was like, I don't know that I feel super strongly about this. But the fan reaction was really great. And so we were like, let's try it. And it ended up being my first, like, big radio song. Wow. So, I'm really glad that I went with that one.

Sometimes it's worth it to listen to, I guess, what a lot of people who are ostensibly going to be the people listening are saying. Yeah. But Daddy is just, though, I mean, no one's ever wailed on the word therapy. Yeah, I like you. That vowel is insane to belt. I have to go back and listen to it. I haven't heard it in so long.

You'll be proud of yourself. Thank you. It really was, it's like you don't expect it to go there either. And so when it does, you're kind of like, it's that thing we said earlier of like, I'm laughing because I didn't expect that to be the hit, but also like, real. Real. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. We all have them. We got them. This has been a spectacular episode. It's over? It's a, oh, no. You technically has to go at six and now we're at six of C. We're keeping you.

Because you're going to watch what happens live, right? I am. That's going to be fucking. We haven't even talked to Lake City. Ah! We have to. Okay, stay for 10. Okay, okay.

Quick thoughts. Quick thoughts. I hope some dreams going into this scene. We have tonight, as of this recording, this new season will be airing. A few episodes have been out. We'll have been out, but we have not seen them yet. What do you, what do you, what do you think? What's your vibe on the ladies?

I love all of them. Yes. I have my opinions about all of them. Of course. Do you keep them close to the chest? I keep them close to my chest. I don't want to be mean. But like, we have opinions.

Yes. You know, they're, you know, they're, you know, pretty. Present. Yes. But I will say that I met Meredith Marks at the paper magazine party. Yes. She was so fab. Yeah, she is bad.

She's a friend of the show. Yeah. Love her. Yeah. And I'm meeting Angie Kay tonight, which I'm so excited about. You have to tell Angie that you were with us today. I will. Because actually, her first watched what happens life.

Someone was on with her. Oh, okay. And it was a really special woman because she was so nervous. and I was just there to like just kind of like calm her down. And like I think we've formed like a lifelong connection. She's like, I'm so happy you were my first time. She's going to be so excited. It's you.

I'm so excited. I feel like I hope she's wearing her sunglasses. Yes. Yeah. I think it's a high probability. High probability that she'll be wearing something amazing. Incredible. But it's tough to be both an Angie Stan and a Meredith Stan.

Because you know you're like these are, but those are, the reason those two work as like rivals, it's because they're just equally beloved, and you are just kind of like they're both iconic. But I feel like no matter who's fighting, like I have a different favorite every week. Sure, sure, totally. You know what I'm saying? Like, it changes. Yeah. You know what I mean? And they're, and they're all fighting with each other. I mean, it's like five episodes in a row. I'll be like, I'm Whitney Rose. I'm running so hard for Whitney Rose. And then there'll be a next episode, like, Whitney Rose, take a seat. And then the next episode will be like, Whitney Rose. Lover. Love her. You'll see now that you, because we've met them a few times, because we're around

the same stuff, like often with the Bravo and everything. Yes, they're amazing. Once you meet them, it becomes incredibly hard to form, like, a critical opinion of them. That's what I'm saying. That's my friend. Yes. Like, now I feel like I'm going to have this connection to them. And I can't say my opinions that I may have had when I first watched the show.

You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I'm, that's why I don't want to, like, say any of my opinions that I had. You know what I mean? Well, also I'm sure Andy's going to ask you about them tonight. He will. And I don't know what to say. I'm so nervous. I think they also understand

they're like they're being put on the spot and like we don't hold it against them like I've said things in the past about certain housewives who like have since been like oh totally it's fine like I get it we're on a TV show you know what I mean so it's good it's all good I mean it was like the start of a beautiful relationship we now have with Lisa Rina

oh nice one time we were on Watch What Happens Live and they were asking about Rina and I was just like I wish she wouldn't do this this this and she got in the DMs and she was like hey I didn't like that comment and I was like Lisa I only made it because I feel like I know you socially and I apologize. I was like, you are right.

I was out of line, et cetera. She came to our cultural awards, Crush, now we're friends. She's been on the show. Oh, that's amazing. Love her. That's great. So it had a happy ending.

Okay, good. Thank you for staying these extra few minutes. Just to get out Salt Lake Talk. Yes, yes, yes. You need to get Meredith to send you Brooks Marks. Oh my God. I need a track suit. I need a tracksuit.

I met Brooks too. He was so sweet. Yeah, he's great. But that track suit is comfy. Yep. And for my gay guys out there, it like lifts and, like, it like, it like gives you, like, it's really, it looks good in your ass. Just saying, Brooks Marks knows something. I guess that'll be my last thought on the Dono Mara.

We love you. Congratulations. Love you, too. Thank you for having me. This was so great. We end every episode with a song. The song of the summer. I want to go fast.

I want to go hard. I want to go anywhere, anywhere you are. And if you want to hear that song much better. Bring the album, Emma single, go forth. Bye. Bye. Yay. Thank you.

Las Culture Recess is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and I Heart Radio podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Executive produced by Anna Hosnii and produced by Becker Ramos. Edited and mixed by Doug Bain. And our music is by Henry Kavirsky. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day.

Stories that move markets. Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world and how you think about your bottom line. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Johnny Knoxville here. Check out Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist,

my new true crime podcast from Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players. It's the true story of the almost perfect crime and the Nimrods who almost pulled it off. It was kind of like the perfect storm in a sewer. That was dumb. Do not

follow my example. Listen to Crimless, Hillbilly Heist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again. We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg to talk about

everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times. It starts with a dream, a nature reserve, and a spectacular new home. But little by little, they lose it. They actually lose it.

They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to hell in heaven on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.