Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang - "Words Matter" (w/ Matt + Bowen)

Episode Date: October 2, 2026

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This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.

And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an I-Heart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Yuwanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business.

Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour.

You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey everybody, it's me, Matt, and my tour is on sale now. This time, it's really Christmas. You can go to www. Matt Rogers Official.com.

Podcast or a visual medium. If you're not watching me right now, I am holding in my hands my vinyl. It's called Have You Heard of Christmas? The answer to that question is coming. At this time, it's really Christmas. I'm playing all over the country and in London and in Canada. That makes it a world tour. Harry Styles, you're on burn notice.

I'll see you soon. Oh, I see. Wow, my eye, oh, my. Bowen, look over there. Wow, is that culture, yes. Oh, goodness. Wow. Las cultureistas.

Ding dong, Las Culturistas calling. Whoa, multitasking. Look at that. He can pour and pod. Baby, send me back to the restaurants. What was your craziest sort of like, whoa, a moment? On a restaurant? Yeah, at a restaurant.

I've never, on a restaurant. Well, I was on top of a restaurant and I fell off. You silly. Rule of culture. Don't get on top of a building. I don't think so, honey. I don't think so, honey, when I broke my ass falling off the top of a restaurant. I never told you about my one crazy fucking insane moment that happened.

Well, I feel like there's so many. Was this a crab? I mean, what I had to reminisce about recently was the beginning of Uber when you screamed at me. Not screamed. Yes, you did. I can't tolerate this. You screamed at me drunk at midnight from Red Hook said, get me an Uber. No, no, no.

So what happened was... I was in my apartment, going to bed, getting ready for the week. You had finished a shift at Brooklyn Crab. You did not know how to use your phone. You did not know how to download Uber. I didn't have the Uber app download. Which you could have done yourself. I didn't have to be...

Well, Uber's problematic. So who really won in the end? And when was the last time you used Uber, my friend? Melissa used Uber today to get us here, not me. Melissa's problematic. Blaming the assistant. Your card. Fuck.

Your card. Wait, so what was your big whoopsies? I was literally, I think 17 years old. I was still busing tables at Nicky's on the Bay. And I love that you remember my restaurants. Don't we all know the Matt Ron There's lore in this room. Oh my God.

Name my first workplace. Anyone? You don't say? No one knows. I could. The ice cream, the Maggie. There you go. Maggie Moose.

Well, the ice cream the Maggie will do for now. The ice cream the Maggie? It's Maggie Moose. It's an institution. Maggie Moose Creamery. You were not allowed to sing and make tips, despite the fact that that would have been an amazing use of your talents. But they could never have known that you are the superstar that you are.

I wink. You were 17 at Nicky's on the Bay busing. I was 17 at Nicky's on the Bay. What often happens is, you know, when you're working in the summer, like, you're working in an outdoor restaurant, sometimes it rains. The restaurant was tented. There was outdoor seats and it was tinted. Love that.

What happened was the precipitation all kind of built up sometimes on the top of the tent. So what they would have the bus kids do is they would have us take a broom and, like, poke the top of the tent so that the water would come off so that, it's. It didn't build on top. But guess where the water would go? Like it would start cascading down. What happened was I was not doing this correctly. It took me a while to be good at restaurants.

But I was poking the top to get the water off the side and the water sort of like cascaded down the tent and absolutely covered three women in their 60s or 70s. And I had just dropped their Chardonnays off at the table. And the waitress goes to me, you know, old ladies, all they drink is Chardonnay. And I go, ha ha, ha, I'm thinking I'm in with this waitress where I talk and shit about the customers. Then they're doused. And the waitress was like, I am so sorry.

He's new. And it's not been the first thing with him. I'll never forget that. She said, it's not been the first thing with him. Holy shit. I don't think you've ever told me this story. They were drenched. That's so scary.

They were patient zero. They were patient zero. They were patient zero of, Me working in restaurants. But then ever since you've gone on to have a really illustrious career in service. I turned them into pathetic ghosts. And I think what my waitress, whose name was Jess, I remember her. I think what she was saying was I one time had cleared a plate too early, like someone was still eating.

And the second thing was she had gone to the bathroom and the table was like, where's our waitress? And I go, I think she went to the bathroom. And then she got back on the floor. Is that not okay to say? Okay, so then she yelled at me. Okay. Because it wasn't the first thing with me. Right.

She goes, she'll never forget. She snapped. She goes, if I leave the floor and I use the restroom, you never tell that to a customer. That's disgusting. You say I stepped out. So from then on, I always say she stepped out. She stepped out. Well, I say that about you when you go to the restroom to do whatever it is that you do in there.

I think you, I think you're always pretty transparent. I don't mind. I have nothing to hide. No, you're a very vile, fecal person. You vile, fecal woman. You vile, fecal woman. That's my favorite piece of writing that Matt Rogers likes. I love, Bowen Yang.

I wrote that into dialogue for night soap, but if you know, you know. He said, his character said to me, you vile fecal woman. After your character bragged about eating my son's ass. Bring back night soap. Bring back night soap. Honestly, it's the number one item on the culture catch up this week is we have to bring back night soap. I mean, no, I love that night soap has, I love the sort of, um, exclusive.

You love the unproduced lore of it. The, the ephemerality of night soap. Really? That it's not somewhere permanent or recorded. Oh, that's so antithetical to the modern culture of capture. Oh, big time. You know what I mean? Capitalism.

Sure. You should read, have you gotten this book yet, the book that I told you get? No, because I've been, but tell it, the story of your life. Story of your life, Catherine Jesser Morton. It's phenomenal. Sounds like a good Christmas gift for me. No, Matt, you need to read it now because, you need to read it now because it will, like, help you. Sounds like an amazing early Christmas gift for me.

Oh, my God. Speaking of culture and the story of. Yes, tell. You know it's serious when I bring the play bill. When you bring the play bell. You guys, I have to say, this was. One of the most special things I've seen. And obviously, you know, there's an item on your,

you already have homework, and that's to see Bo Nyang and Bo Mary, of course. But because it's so difficult to get a ticket to that, and it's actually going till, and we can announce, January 16th. January 17th, I don't even know. January 16th, 17th. It just got extended from the 16th to the 17th. Yay! That means you're spectacular.

This is Schoolgirls or the African-A. I went to the premiere last night. Much hyped. And it is for a reason. Yes. So this actually has been produced many times. It was off Broadway. Jocelyn B.O.

I actually, I worked with her husband, Austin Smith, on a project this year and we spent a lot of time together. A project, very furtive. Well, I'm a very furtive person. Very furtive. And it's not been the first thing with me. It's not been the first. That's crazy.

Okay, sorry, keep talking about, I keep talking about, this is a little. So he is like obsessed with his wife and she's this incredible. Love that. Yeah. Love a man who's obsessed with his wife. We're going to talk about another man who's obsessed with his wife, shockingly, but keep going. Okay.

So I was, so he had been saying, you should come to this premiere and I was like down because it's directed by Whitney White who did liberation. And it stars, among others, Patina Miller, who we love. We fucking love. Fucking love. Icon in this. And Deney Benton, who is spectacular. In factacular in this.

Yes. And I've been a fan of her since Unreal. Uh-huh. Do you watch the Gilded Age? I don't watch the Gilded Age, which doesn't make me a real Broadway person. You actually have to. I know. If you're anyone on Broadway, you're watching or in the Gilded Age.

How do we get you in the Gilded Age? I don't want to be in it. Well, they weren't Asian people back then. Hey, I don't like that attitude. Well, not with that attitude, there's not going to be Asian people back then. Yeah, you're right. Okay, so. And also, Jasmine, Amy, Rogers.

Who, let's speak it into existence. She's also going to be Maria in Sound of Music next year. Big year. She needs to be on the pod. Jasmine, Amy Rogers needs to be on last culture. Culture Award. Culture Award, I think, repeat Cultural Award fixture. Repeat Culture Award fixture, absolutely.

This is, it was so funny. It was so heartbreaking. It was so illuminating. It's about, it's about, it essentially maps onto Mean Girls, but it takes place in an all-girls school in Ghana. And Jasmine plays an American girl who transfers into the school amidst them all needing to compete in the Miss Ghana pageant. Love it. Love this.

Basically, Deney Benton plays like the Regina George of the school. She is unbelievably cruel, but you find out the layers to her character. It's an incredibly layered piece. It was amazing. It was, you looked around and everyone was just the same kind of spellbound by it. Melissa and I went last night. We were so blown away. I love it.

So school girls or the African Mean Girls play, it's top of your list. It has to be. Just to say, Patina has been on my mind a lot lately. Talk about Patina. Well, I'm just like, if I'm tired, that's crazy, doing Broadway. That's crazy. And this is not me. This is not another moment of Bowen Yang complains that he's tired.

No, it's Bowen Yang states that he's tired. I think about Patina Millie going up at what, like 5 a.m. every day to run a marathon, essentially, before every show. It's like, come on, you can't. Patina is so fun in this. And by the way, to say nothing of Queen, I believe her name is Queen Jean. Oh, yes, Tony Ware.

Queen Jean who did the costumes for cats, for Jellicle Ball, does these costumes. The costumes are spectacular. The set design is amazing, the direction. It's obviously it's Whitney White, so she's amazing. You want to be another poll quote on the awning, don't you? I don't think I'm the person to have the pull quote here. But I would say I am happy to provide as many exclamatory positive quotes as I possibly can.

Well, you never steered anyone wrong in theater. I'm trying to think if I, you know what? You know I try to be honest about it because it's so fucking expensive. Of course. Like, it's not like, it's not like Life of a Showgirl, the Angkor, which I'm going to totally lie about my opinion about. You know what I mean? Because that's free. Okay.

Can we just get it out of the way? So can I say, here's two things I have about the life of showgirl encore. I want to tie Life of a Showgirl encore to the last... Episode of Survivor? No, no, no, not the last episode of Survivor to Last Ditch to the Western Massachusetts Lesbian Buc. And that's why you tune into Lost Cultch, because I'm going to tie both of them to the first episode of Survivor.

Oh my God. Okay, so then if Life of a Showgirl, the Encore is the hinge, then should we start with Survivor or Last Ditch? Let's start with Last Ditch. Talk to me. So I think most people have read this by now. Boston Globes article about the lesbian bar, the last ditch outside of North Hampton in Western Mass.

One of the few remaining lesbian bars in the country, relaxed its KN95 mask mandates for one day, causing much consternation and uproar in the community. Lots of angles to the story, lots of reactions to the story. Oh, yeah. What I will say, and I think it's the same thing that you really fucking zeroed in on,

which I'm still thinking about, which I think ties into the way, I'll just quickly mention the last line of... The last line. This piece is so, so interesting to me. Haunting. Haunting to me. Just it documents all of these really difficult conversations

and things that have happened circumstantially to all people involved. in the situation. And I think it kind of opens it up to the reader into what we're experiencing now in the culture. Someone says, that's the price you pay for community. Yeah, that's the price you pay to be in community. To be in community.

Even more active. Thank you for including the verb, to be an R. Words matter. Let's just put that out there. And then once we talk about Life of a Showgirl, the encore, I will sort of bring those together. What do you want to say about it?

My feelings about life of the showgirl, the encore. The life of a show girl. And Words Matter. And that's actually Title of Ep. It's a frontrunner for Title of Words Matter. Okay. Do I think it is as bad as everyone is saying? No.

I do think there is TSDS, Taylor Swift Arrangement Syndrome. Okay. I believe it is crazy the effect she has on people. However, I will say this. I think that Patient Zero is the reason why the whole thing exists because I think she got excited about the idea of the music video.

I think she thought, I think she created in her head what the music video was, got so excited, and then to justify it made the encore, made the four songs, because it feels like... It's operating outside of whatever TS-13 will be.

Correct. And I thought that she was really cooking for a while there. Like I thought, I knew and I knew you. You know, she did that great conversation at the Grammy Museum.

It looked like she was really kind of gunning. I think she's, gunning for finally a song of the year win at the Grammys with I knew it I knew yeah I don't know if she'll get that but I it felt like that was the goal I think she got so psyched about the patient zero music video which I do think makes the song better I think the video is kind of cool I love Dakota Johnson I think Colin Farrell's hot as fuck in it and I like the video I have some notes but I think that's the reason why the project exists that bridge is crazy and I like

the song but the bridge is kind of I just need her to stop doing that thing she does in the bridge like I kind of want I want a little Meredith Marks I mean it's kind of she's when she goes into Meredith Marks on her bridges yeah she loses me a bit you didn't stand up for me at all at all that's like a Taylor Swift Bridge it's like a Taylor Swift Bridge it's like a Taylor Swift Bridge I also think that patients that this song is about Ellen DeGeneres the song is about Ellen DeGeneres oh like I was patient zero and She was patient's ear with Ellen DeGeneres. And Dakota Johnson.

Well, Dakota ended her. Was patient infinity. Exactly. I think Dakota texted Taylor and was like, I'm getting booked on the Ellen DeGeneres show. You're actually so teetful right now. If you look at the tombstone, it says Ellen DeGeneres. It says 1886 to 2022. Are you serious?

Is when Ellen DeGeneres' career popped off. 22 is when Dakota Johnson ended Ellen DeGeneresnerous. with four words. That's not true, Ellen. You were invited. That's so... You were invited. Ask anyone. Ask anyone here.

I think that... I think Taylor was so terrorized by Ellen for so many years. Rightfully, rightfully traumatized. Exactly. And this is a piece about trauma. Yes. Someone was turned into a pathetic ghost.

You love when Taylor Swift uses the word ghost in her lyrics. Have you known? Notice that she's obsessed with ghosts and obsessed with heiresses. It is always about someone's fortune being at risk. Wait, heiress? What's that word? At the end of patient zero, hei-R-E-R-E-S-S-S. Because I went, I was like, my girl hasn't been playing Final Fantasy 7.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about Eris Gainsborough. No, but I would love for her to be inspired by something like that. You, God, it's so crazy that you don't know Final Fantasy 7 or Kingdom Hearts because it's heiress Gainsborough now they've changed it to Ayrith but as I've told you many times before Mandy Moore Minas Savari I know I know okay keep going Hayden Panetierre

No no Hayden was Kyrie Well that's what I was about to say No you weren't anyways Because words matter I'm gonna say I'm sorry for that mistake But did you know that It's always about an heiress Well yeah because lately she's been writing about like Oh the will and yeah it's like it's the will

It's like she's an heiress whom seriously dies It's like oh yeah that's gonna American Dynasty. It's always about someone's like great fortune. Yeah. And you know how much I love a great fortune.

You love the word fortune. I love the word fortune. You love the word fortune the way Taylor likes the word ghost and that's rule of culture. That's rule of culture number 75. Matt Rogers loves the word fortune as much as Taylor lists out of

ghosts. Ghost. Ghost. At all? Okay. So you didn't stick up for me at all. Okay. So anything else about patient zero?

Can I say yeah. Cleveland, I didn't, I don't, I don't think it's all as bad as everyone is saying. I do think it's kind of, I think it's funny the way that people get. However, I don't think this is going to be, I was willing to say with Midnights and

Tortured Poets, we're going to revisit this era later and there are going to be some of our stronger eras. I don't think that about this era. So this is what I think about, those are all great. This is how I want to tie together Life of a Shruglerly Encore with the Western Mass last ditch. Yes.

Story. Community is something that we have to pay for. Fandom is something that we have to, that can be bought. But I think the price on that, I'm trying to sound profound, but this is just my, this is my assessment of it, is that I think Taylor is as engaged, as excited in the Easter egg process as she is the songwriting process now,

but there's an imbalance happening where all of the hype that gets built up, even over the course of just one week of her announcing Patient Zero and the tracks, even in that time period, there was so much excitement and hype and, you know, we'll say like hysteria, that it could not have possibly lived up to that in the songs. No, because everyone did what they do when they're in a real, everyone did what they do in parissocial relationships or in, relationships where they're not in communication with the person of their desire, which is they create everything in advance. And that is an extremely tough thing when she, well, she's kind of

set this up, right? Because she'll say, this is what's happening. And then it will be so much more. So people have come to like, in a Pavlovian sense, like expect more. They've been conditioned to for her to over deliver. And so now that she simply delivered what she said, it can never live up to the castles that people have built in their mind. Like, I actually thought, despite me fully knowing better, that Pink Clouding was going to be a duet with Ariana Grande. Because you saw one or two posts on Instagram or something? Not even that. I saw a ton of things on Instagram, like you said, that literally perfectly spelled out why this could happen. It seemed like they were really communicating with each other. And then like, I know that's not happening.

Right, but because this is how, and this is why you should be the book, the story of your life. Yeah. This is what I'm saying. It's like, it's even gone out of Taylor's control the way that the Easter eggs are unfurled so much so that there's this huge chasm between like the expectation versus what the deliverable is. Right. And the songs are, as you say, not like abysmal. No, people are offended by them. It's like, it's, they're, they're fluffy songs.

They're deluxe tracks. They're deluxe tracks. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. They're not, her best work. But I'm not upset. Well, this is the thing.

It's like, I was thinking to myself, oh gosh, I hope, like, I hope she has an album in the future where she doesn't do any Easter eggs for it at all. And then I went, wait a minute, she already did that twice with folklore and Evermore. And those were, in some ways, her most celebrated albums. Totally. As they came out and in retrospect, it's like, well, those are two of her best albums. Yeah. I feel like she just enjoys this thing.

It started out with her bolding the letters and the liner notes and the lyrics. It's like she likes this part of it. And then I think now what's happening is there's just, it's not super compatible with the way people consume her work. Right. And that's, I think, too, it's like when your fan base is ostensibly every one, in the world. And I don't, and I include people that dislike her in this because everyone is consuming. Everyone's talking about it.

Everyone's talking about it. It is impossible to satisfy everyone. And so what I think I try to remember about her is like, it's hard to, when you are the most watched person, create work. If I was her, I just feel, like if it was me and I was known as one of the greatest songwriters ever and the most prolific. I would then think at this point, I want to preserve my critical reputation, not necessarily like put everything out just because I know that people are going to consume it and there's going to be discussion about it. I kind of felt like that's where her direction was going with this, you know, because she's probably going to be up for and even win an Oscar.

You know, it's like it feels like a moment where she could like solidify a critical reputation, no pun intended. but it seems like right now she's still having, she's still kind of in the showgirl thing, which is a large element, I think, is I'm going to piss everyone off and be annoying. This record is on. Miley is having a moment. New name, new album, exclusive shows. So IHart Radio is sending you to experience it all.

Life at the Hollywood Polites, Hotel, tickets, and $1,000 cash. Listen to IHard new music for 10 minutes a day on the IHart Radio. app and click enter every day you listen is another chance to win stream mylie's new album bass persuades today i'm melissa jeltson host of the what happened to her podcast we're kicking off the season with the sandra birchmore story a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm her family never bought it and the man they suspected wore a badge You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an I-Heart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers.

So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast. called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Yuwano. We're two best friends,

22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s,

I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anywhere fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business,

and I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar.

Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. If anyone wanted to commit a murder, up here would be the greatest place in the world to hide the body. But no one will find it. He acted friendly. He talked friendly. He sounded friendly. They all knew that I did the scary boogie stuff, and they said, maybe she'll find out where this girl is.

I saw him violent. backhanded a bow and that's exactly what made us all think he had something to do with him the clock is ticking down and the woods are calling there are a lot of demons in putnam county but i've met the devil and he's real i'm paul solitarov and this is season two of the devil's quarry Listen to The Devil's Quarry Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear The Devil's Quarry Season 2 add free with exclusive content. Subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Okay, so this, and this ties back to Western Mass Last Ditch.

Here we go. This is my sort of big takeaway of it, because I think, think there's an initial response of like L.O.L. Oh my God. Which like is a little tough for me. It's like why it like it's written in such a dry register. But like you know, I think a lot of people are like LOL pronouns. It, it's clown school. Blah, blah, blah. But I'm just I am laughing. It's a hard one to comment on because it's no, no, no, no. I know what my thing is. I'm just laughing at. I'm hearing a white therapist go on. Why they them tears? White they Why they them tears was so

I had to stop in life Well it does remind me of my of my sister Because it does remind me of our One of our great episodes White with Coloscoa Where the bit of the episode was Matt Rodgers screaming at me Vituperatively calling me white

Shut up white You're so white Hey white Relax We've heard enough of your white words So Hey Bo and gang I've heard enough of your white words

Okay so this is So these are my white words White Taylor These are my white words about Last Edge. This is my white opinion. Which, L.O.L. Like, okay, this is my only thing about the Asian

discourse. No, I can't bring this in. Okay, back in January when shit was going down, there were, like, there was a whole fucking deluge on tech talk. I feel comfortable talking about this now. Of, like, people, not even just Asians, but people saying, like, I'm a bootlicker. I wish

I were white. And there was this, like, I'm sorry, like, busted looking person who was, I think, phenotypically Asian, let's just say, saying that I wake up every day wishing, praying to God that I were white and oh, I wish I had blue eyes. And I'm like, wazians are Asians, of course.

But I'm not going to have a waysian person tell me and, like, evaluate how Asian I am. I don't know anyone who wants to be white less than you. Say that to camera. I don't know anyone that wants to be white less than this man. I think that that would be... And the craziest thing... If you woke up white, it would be like black swan.

It would be like horror film. These are my white words. Back to last ditch. These are my white words. These words are white words from Bowen-Yang's mouth. We love him, we love him, we love him. I met Natasha Benningfield at the Wicked premiere. Anyway, go on.

I think I said hi to her and I was very star-stra. She was amazing on the carpet. She twirled. Oh, Natasha. I love her. The legend, the voice, in the words of Sharif. Charlene Incarnate. White legend.

White legend. Natasha Beddingfield is a white legend. That's actually rule of code number 30. Natasha Beddingfield is a white legend. That's going in the book. Well, who, no, no, no, no, no. So Josh Sharp, just one more thing. Josh Sharp loves quoting Charlene and Carnet because one time, I think Charlene had done

a lip sing to unwritten. And then Josh was like, oh my God, that was, Charlene that was amazing. And then Charlene Incarnate, I don't even think she remembers this goes, the legend the voice. The legend, the voice. No, but literally. the legend of the voice. But say your white words. My white words about last ditch. Um, it, I think people like understand now that like the two things can be true thing about

this particular story is like immunocompromised and queer people like should have places where they can feel like safe and secure and they can gather. And then the other thing is like a bar with no one going and that is out of business and cannot keep the lights on in this moment and time in the way that like logistics and overhead are situated in this particular moment in time, a bar that cannot stay open cannot be a safe space for anyone. Correct. And I also don't think we can have our society, the rules of our society dictated by antisocial people. I mean, there's, I think there's a lot of people in this conversation who are not interested

in community. They're interested in like pursuing leadership in online thought. Yes, yes, yes. You know what I mean? And that to me is I think something that's like really, really evident to me in reading it is it's like, oh, I, there are certain times where it's like you're just, you're just kind of participating in a game that someone is moving the goalposts. You know what I mean? It's like you could say one thing and then what you've done is you've really just submitted to that person so now that they know they can own you. You know what I mean?

It's like we all kind of like do this thing online. where it's like we get into a fervor because someone is attracting the most attention and now they are the moral high ground and before you know it, you've forgotten what you even think so you can create your own moral compass. You have to read this book, I'm telling you.

I've heard you say that. Because it is all about how social media cannot accommodate any narrative other than growth and redemption in an upward trending arc. It's like, this is how much I'm growing, this is how much I'm becoming a better person over time, This is how my morals are developing in relation to other peoples who are inferior.

It's like it just builds and builds. And the alternative to that is like a flat narrative where it's like, well, maybe you don't change over the course of several years and that's okay. And also maybe like it's the narrative of capture versus the narrative of retrieval. It's like the earliest storytellers were like hunter gatherers, but there were hunters in the tribe coming back from the hunt being like, these are our spoils. And the retrieval is like the antithesis to that where it's like, well, we just kind of stayed at

home and harvested wheat. And it was a great day. Yeah. And it's like most days are like that for most people, including us. We just harvest weed at home. Yeah. We're not out there like killing boars every single day. No.

It would be fun. No, I don't think so. I think the people who are doing that, speaking of Taylor, the people who seem like they're hunting boars every single day, it's like I don't even think it's that fun for, those people, I'm not even singling out her, but it's like, I hear you. The we do shittiness of it all of social media. Yeah.

Including like any sort of political or inclusivity discourse is like really, really hard to like navigate. I don't know. Well, it's hard to navigate because we're not actually having the conversations. Really? We are. And it's being. We're, we're communicating in peaceful. meal. And that is not, you know what I mean? It's not discourse. That's not actually what's happening

online is not really discourse. You know what I mean? Because in discourse, it's like you take someone at face value and you take them in good faith. What happens online is I'm reading what you said, deconstructing it, finding a way to respond that gives me the upper hand so that I can win this competition that are the things we are saying to each other. So that's the thing. That's like what she's talking about. It's this like neoliberal notion that like growth is the ultimate thing. Right. That like and it's like everybody everybody let's like calm down. You need to calm down. Her best. Her best. Um, wait, but by the way, this all does bring me to Jeff Probes. Okay, let's talk about Jeff. So this is like, think the biggest thing. It's like whenever I'm in the

comments and whenever I'm reading the comments, I immediately get really down on myself because you know why? I know better. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I know better. I know it's not a healthy place. I know that what I just said is true about discourse. Oh, I know where you're going with this. And for me, it's like what I'm observing in culture right now is you got a lot of people

swearing they're not in the comments and then they reveal they're in the comments. Like Cleveland reveals that Taylor Swift is in the comments. She is a human being like the rest of us. I have never seen. Someone more in the comments. Someone admit they are in the comments like Jeff Probst did on that premiere of Survivor. And even on Popcast, she kind of was like going off and off and off about how like, well, I see what people are saying. Yeah. And I think it's not serving him because to stop everything in

that premiere to yell at us for having an opinion on Survivor and the way that and the way that it has has been lately. Yeah. But it's it's just it doesn't feel good as a viewer. And also I could argue with Jeff Probst in that moment who is basically he puts the whole cast of Survivor 51 in front of him and he's like you know a lot of people have a lot of opinions about how this goes and this is the open era which means anything can happen we can bring back any twist or element from anything that's happened in the last 50 seasons and it's going to be fair game and just to say do you guys want immunity idols and they're like yeah he puts it to a vote he literally puts it to a vote do you guys want twist? And they're like, yeah. And that's when I have to stop and say, Jeff, do you guys want

twist? Is this a rally? It's so broad. I know. Like, the firemaking thing. Sure. I don't even think firemaking is controversial anymore. Oh, that's what the poll was. It was that. And then it was just broadly, do you guys want twists and do you guys want the game to change? And they're like, yes, of course. A, they're not going to tell you no, Jeff. So you can't then turn to the camera and be like, you know, see? It's like, of course they're saying that. And also like, but, but I just think it is a dismissal of the fandom that makes that show possible that to me felt a bit too self-aware.

Well, it's Jeff Perps being a human being like the rest of us. Totally. And he's family. And he's family. And he's like a Taylor. He's like a you and I. We even just referenced, you know, our moments. the discourse months later, but whatever.

But yeah, I mean, it did remind me of when Jeff was like, I'm going to put it to a vote. Like, I think it was Survivor 42 or one where he was like, should I say come on in guys? Right. And I, on the one hand, I was like, that's thoughtful. That, like, that, like signifies. It signals some kind of openness to adaptation or whatever,

adaptability, I should say. But then on the other hand, with what you're, you're saying, that's totally separate, but it's like, it reminded me of when Benson Boone had a poster for his tour where all of the bursts were like, he, just a backflipper, just, I mean, it was, it was him doing like, you know, hater marketing, basically. And I, and again, I'm, I happen to be a Benson Boone appreciator. I appreciate it. Oh, stop. But I, I just, I just think he's a very, I just think, I just think he's a very special person and character. He's a little talent.

He's, well, he's so talented. Yeah. But I'm just saying, like, in this, in his, and he gets a lot of, a lot of specific energy directed at him. And he has tried this thing, too, where he's tried to transmute it into, like, a self-awareness, but I don't think it ever works. It's not interesting. It's, it's, it's, it's, not only, not only is it not interesting. it makes me worried for them.

And it's not on them because I think they want to, they want to do something. They need to direct this somewhere. They can't be the sponge for all of this weird, all the weird things people say at them, including Jeff, where Jeff has a very impassioned fan base. Hell, I've had Survivor fans, like, come for me

after I was thrilled that coach was eliminated. I was like, get these people off my fucking TV. Well, they're like coach fans. Right, which is like, that's your first mistake. Yeah, right. But I'm just saying like with the spirited fandom like Swifties like survivor people. Yeah. Psychologically, there has to be just an outlet.

I don't know. She has, Taylor Swift has done amazing work in response to public thought about her. I'm thinking about like, you know, there's some. And anti-hero. Yeah. And all of reputation. And even going back to mean, you know what I mean? Like off speak now.

And me. And me. Just kidding. No, I'm not. You like me? I thought it was one of the great pop culture tragedies that she took out Hey kid spelling is fun.

Why did she take that out? Because I think people made fun of it too much. You know what? Yeah, she got maybe she got self-conscious about it. But that is where, like, doubled down on that. Double down on the fucking cringe. On the cringe.

Yeah. Well, I think that, and I think that's kind of of a little bit of it. Yes. And so, yes. And I was tying it, sorry, we'll go back to Survivor. But I was trying to tie into the last ditch of those two things can be true. Two things can be true with Life of a Struggle with the Encore, which is that she

genuinely wants to like put a period on this error. And I think she wants to write for herself. And this is purely self-indulgent in a way that is intentional and that she wants. I think it speaks. And I'm not doing gymnastics to justify anything. No, no, no. I really do think part of this. era for her was being like bombastic and confrontational and

maximalist and annoying. I think that that and so in that way it kind of works. I will say I have been waiting for her to do the aesthetic of Patient Zero for like a long time like just a little bit more like darker and sleek. I just wish it was moving us into a new space and was like I was kind of excited to move away from Showgirl because she said it's just going to be these 12 tracks. that's it. And that's a little bit of rule breaking, I think, if I'm going to be like a swifty about it. Sure, sure. So I think there's elements of it that are promising in terms of

that song in the music video. The rest of it, like it's not, it's like I said, I think it exists to justify what an idea for a music video that she was really excited about. And the sort of organizing principle around this particular album and era which is like this is going to be a lot it's chaotic it's a lot and I think that she's kind of it's kind of like

like Ariana's pedal it's like she disguises it as like she really characterizes it as a relationship and Taylor is just is just being confrontational yeah yeah and there's nothing I just say this in the in the literal sense

of the word there's nothing poetic about it yeah yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the good news for people that fucking hate it is that there is so many, so much other music that's amazing. Tenasha's album. I saw you've been listening to it too. I've really been loving it. The pop star album.

The pop star song. Popsar song. I still love melatonin. Of course. I love. Melatonin. Nobody want to dance anymore. Writing credit to Stephanie Dermanada on that.

Stop, really? Because it is, and I cannot, because when I heard it said chills down my spine, I went to heard this song because she goes, look at them look at me i go she did not just interpolate chillin by waleigh featuring lady gaga herself from 2008 she's studied tanashay said the pop star album is not going to be just like a flip on what you expect for me but actually like kind of reminded me of the great impersonator a little bit by halsey whereas just like i'm going to slip into these different forms and comment on these forms and be really learned about these forms so that you can know forever after this to not

expect Tenache to be what you've always thought. I need to pull this legendary couple of tweets because speaking to Nashay, speaking of her and her studiedness with other pop divas. Love horror movies, but also working on yourself. Mental Health is Horrifying is the podcast where those two worlds collide. I'm Candace Green, a registered psychotherapist and I'm inviting you to journey into the darkness with me. I explore the mental health themes behind your favorite horror stories

and what they can teach us about fear, resilience, and healing. It's self-care with a sinister twist. Listen to Mental Health is Horrifying on the free IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge.

You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an IHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait, head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa? we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi.

We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one,

which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anyone you're fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today.

Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight to fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me.

Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. If anyone wanted to commit a murder, up here would be the greatest place in the world to hide the body. But someone will find it. He acted friendly.

He talked friendly. He sounded friendly. They all knew that I did the scary boogie stuff, and I said, maybe she'll find out where this girl is. I saw him violent, backhanded a bow! And that's exactly what made us all think he had something to do with it. The clock is ticking down and the woods are calling. There are a lot of demons in Putnam County, but I've met the devil, and he's real. I'm Paul Solitarov, and this is season two of the devil's quarry.

Listen to The Devil's Quarry Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear The Devil's Quarry Season 2 ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. This is the Tenashi tweet. Read 2011. I'm sorry, 2011, she tweets, I just got kicked out of an elevator dot, dot, dot, dot by Whitney Houston. like zero underscore big oh like that face of like December 11th, 2012. Damn.

I just saw her like a month ago. Dot, dot, dot. When she kicked me out of an elevator, dot, dot, dot. RIP Whitney Houston. What a voice. What a tragedy. Jesus. Damn.

I just saw her about a month ago. Dot, dot, dot, dot. When she kicked me out of an elevator. RIP Whitney Houston. What a voice. What a tragedy. We don't mean to laugh. Excuse me. No one mourns harder than us.

No one mourns harder. No one mourns the Whitney. The Whitney. Like us. Museum. It's actually, did you know I went to the Met? How was it?

Yes, you told me you had a fabulous time with the Costume Institute. I went to the Costume Institute. I saw all the costumes. Love that. That was fabulous. You would love a museum. I do. I'm sorry.

I'm perpetuated. You're perpetuating the rumor that I am uncultured. How dare you? You're so cultured. Well, I just think because you are so precise and smart about all culture that books, you would just, you would slay in books. And you're writing one right now, I hear. Yeah, well, allegedly.

Allegedly. Well, I'm trying to think if there's a, I think I started a book. Hold on on. I think I started an audiobook. book. Let me, and I, it's wrong that I don't know the book that I was reading. Sometimes it's hard to remember. Okay, wait. I'm pulling up the app. Yeah. So I bought Big Little Truths. What's that? Well, it's the sequel to Big Little Lies. Because you know there's going to be a new season of Big Little Lies. That's right. And apparently it's like the kids are grown and, you know, I don't know what else.

I, all I know, I didn't make it very far. Honestly, I'm not. I am two minutes and 51 seconds into chapter three. I have 14 hours and 39 minutes left. And I think I don't remember the first true two chapters. Oh, and you're going to have to go back and read those. Well, you know, I have a long plane ride today. Oh, look. Where are you going?

Petitier. This is me. Oh, come on. I should get that one. Anyways. What else? Anyways. Because there was so much.

Survivor. Who are you liking on the traders? I'm loving the traitors, honestly. Love the traitors, new blood. And Joey is a really sweet, Long Island legend. There is so much gay and Long Island representation. We have to talk about you, hold on, we have to talk about something else that you confess to in the dock. Well, hold on.

Joey getting emotional at being friends with a gay guy with Michael. Yes. Made me love Joey even more. I got in Michael Foote's DMs. That's so interesting. He's upstairs sometimes, right? He's an eye-hard creature. He's an eye-heart guy.

Okay, got to figure out and find out more about this. Because now it's like... There's never been someone who's... There's never been a gay guy who's been more wrong than Michael. So I got in his DMs and I said... On the traders, I said, this gay guy is so smart and he's funny. And he's wrong. He's dead wrong.

And he's dead wrong. And he's wearing that colorful clothes. And I got in his DMs and I said this, you remind me of myself. which is how I know you lose. Ah! And then we had a laugh. I love that. We had a laugh and a laugh.

He said, you're not getting any spoilers from me. I'm like, I don't want the spoilers. I just wanted to say I'm an appreciator of your style. And I think the three more episodes that you're going to be on are going to be really fun to watch. That's really nice. I can never. And then he was like, oh, would you ever do it? Actually, no.

When I saw Fadra at Titanic, she was like, now would you ever do the traders? And I was like, well, I, it honestly boils down to I think I would just do too much. And when you're watching the show, you see the people doing too much. And you're like, you have all the critique in the world for them. But it's got to be hard to not do too much when you are genetically predisposed to doing too much. And you're on camera. Well, even if you're not doing too much, it's up to whoever's in that edit bay to be like,

that one. Yeah. Make him a buffoon. Yeah. You know what I mean? And someone said like, someone said like, why are there so many like annoying gay guys on the traitors? And I have two comments to that.

Jay is not gay. Right. That's my third comment. That was shocking. The way he enters the rooms, I'm like, my God. And I'm saying that's someone who loves his wife. Oh, yeah. Loves.

Who is the other person who loves his wife? I think he absolutely gagged. for his wife. He gags for his wife. Who's the other, who was the other person who loves this wife that we were saying? Um, my friend Austin Smith, the husband of Jocelyn Bio, the playwright of schoolgirls. Oh, fabulous. Okay, so, so what are your two comments on the traders? Oh, I don't think that, I don't think that there are more annoying gay men on this reality show than usual. I think if you think that you probably just are being, are self-conscious, I think it's probably, like, and you clearly don't watch Survivor, where there's plenty of annoying gay men

Every thing is like here's the thing they're not even annoying gay men there are gay men on screen acting like gay men on screen and the fact that you think that is annoying is is a comment on how you feel about yourself actually that is how I think 1,000 percent I could teach a whole fucking media studies class about this anytime I would show up on screen on us and now it would be like he's annoying he's an annoying gig out I'm like I'm not saying anything I know the thing I'm literally not saying a single it's just people there's there's just a media sort of like collapse that happens when someone yeah when there's

some gay guy with a personality that's that's a big part of sure sure because if you're gay and have no personality they love you that's just true they should love me no you have a vivid bright personality and you have a vivid bright talent and that's the thing is we

we don't stand a chance out there with these faggots typing you know what I mean like it's not and that's why I wanted to reach out to him as a as a colorful as a colorful gay guy gay voice out there. Yes.

Okay, so then, and then what was your other comment? Oh, my other comment. I had two things. Oh, I also agree with you that we give a lot, and so we're easy to edit into caricatures. That's right, exactly. And so it's a mixture of an audience that is, you know, has like a predisposition to be like,

oh, this gay guy is annoying me, and I don't know why you hate yourself. And to the edit leaning into that, because gay guys get on camera and want to perform. Totally. Which isn't annoying. It's just doing reality TV in a way that, like, you know, people love when it's someone who is not representing them. That's right.

That's right. I just think, I'm watching the show now and I'm like, the fact that the traders aren't just doing the Surrey Fields playbook at this point. Right. Just like beat for beat is, like, stunning to me. What do you think the Surrey playbook is? Laylo. Yeah. And befriend in the most cosmically significant way, one or two people, one or two faithfuls.

Make them feel like you are their family member. They're family member. Do you remember they were so betrayed? They felt so betrayed by her. That's what the gag was. Yeah. And Surrey was sobbing at the end of the season two. I think that I think probably what happens next.

And so we're, again, because we record these on Tuesdays, they come out on Fridays. We're going to be a little behind. So I guess this is just going to be, you'll know whether or not this happens. But I think that there's probably a little bit too much on Katie for her to continue. I think Xavier like did fuck her a little bit. Yeah. And I think that ultimately they're going to be like, why is Joe talking some? Like, he can't help himself, and they've already laid that into the edit.

Because he's from Long Island. Again, I get this. And I think Tamika will probably go the furthest. However, I think she's done enough of the, I'm bad at this actually. Tamika? Yeah. Because at a certain point, they're going to be like, wait, this woman is incredibly accomplished and gifted and smart.

Like, she's obviously applied for this game. Like, she knows how to play it. They wouldn't put her on this. Then again, Christy is there, so. Who's Christy? Christy is Mama Southern who has raised boys and has a bullshit detector. Oh, and I know it when I see it. And she's been dead wrong, too.

You are a liar. You are lying through your teeth. I know what I heard. I know what I heard. She did hear that correctly. She didn't, though. She's, because Madeline said, she's kind of a ghost. She looked like a tell herself ghost.

Madeline? Yeah. She could be in the video, too. Okay. Oh, I didn't realize that the video, people in the video were ghosts. Well, they're not, but like, sort of like, it's, you know, you're watching the video and, like, Taylor Swift that's revealed as, like, a ghost. I just think she sort of is giving that sort of, like, light-eyed, like, vague brunette vibe of, like, I just think she aesthetically is in the... His ghost. Arousal palette for Taylor Swift.

Right. You love Mama Christy. I love Mama Christy. I hope she goes all the way. I know. I know, but I hurt. I'm not a liar. Guys, we got one.

We got one. You need that. You need that. Because Traders is the perfect, because, you know what I thought? She said, I feel bad picking Kim. No, no, no. To be on the, Traders is the perfect show for people who are, one, not brave enough to go on Survivor and two, not quite smart enough to go on Survivor either. You know what I mean?

Okay, do you skip the challenges? On traders? Yeah. I'll be on my phone. I'll be on my phone. Yeah. I'll be on a second screen, which is tough, which is bad. Yeah.

I'm locked in on. I usually, I'm like 70% paying attention to Survivor challenges too. When it gets to the end, when they're doing the puzzle, let's say. You know what? I watched it with a group of people, and that is a way to stay engaged in the challenges. What do you mean? Like, I watched it. You know who's a huge Survivor fan?

Rachel Brosnahanhan. Yeah, yeah. So a bunch of us went over to her place. and watched it. And when you are with a group of people, it's so much easier to be engaged in the challenges. Watch parties are going to make the traitors and Survivor and all of it easier.

Of course. Because I am really only interested in this social gameplay, like the sort of politics that goes on with the personalities and around. That's what makes the show great, obviously. I guess I take back what I said about people on traders not being smart. because there is something the difference between traitors and Survivor is that like

with the traitors you can watch at home and be like well they're wrong and on Survivor there's no right or wrong way to do it Yeah I do think that the one thing the Open Era is going to do is it's going to make every single second of it chaotic which I kind of like

I welcome the chaos I always say you got to play the terrain do you not feel that 50 was chaotic I thought 50 was pretty chaotic I thought 50 was chaotic because of like editorial decisions in terms of like why are we watching Zach Brown scuba dive?

Right, right. Like I didn't need that. Like I needed probably like, I probably needed like 80% less Zach Brown and 80% more like confessionals from Tiffany who was a finalist on the show. It's crazy. Looking back on that, it's crazy that Tiffany.

Tiffany was at the VMAs. By the way, you know who I saw last night at School Girls, Candice. Love. And I was talking. Candace and she was like, why were the first three people out black? And I was like, I did notice a survivor. Of traitors.

Oh, no. And that's been a thing before. Yes. Madeline? Oh, right. Oh, but the murders, I guess. Yeah. Well, Arisa, by the way. I thought Arisa would go all the way. Anyway, Arisa was on hot dog. What? Arisa? She's a dog. She's a dog rumor. Arisa? Okay. So, Arisa

comes on screen. I swear to God. The HBO Max's reality competition series that I hosted, which you can't watch now because it was written off for a tax ride off. This is why physical media matters. Go. And that's why it needs, hot dog needs to be a DVD box set. Literally. I hosted a 12 episode reality competition show on HBO Max. It changed my life at the time financially. You can't watch it. Beautiful. A contestant was Arisa the dog groomer recently departed on the traders. But I was, I literally shot up out of my seat. I'm like, oh my God, I think that's ERISA.

That's amazing. I love that. It was so funny. I wanted to see her go further. But it was weird what she did with the hands. I was like, what are you doing? Oh,

I loved that. I was very much, I was like, I get what she did that, but it is, like, it is such a moment that, like,

people are going to talk about it. Like, I feel like you can't do, you can't do a thing where it's like, okay, guys, I'm stopping everything to do something.

People are going to be like, what was that? Speaking of Candace, in a post-congline world, any weird thing that happens. On the Traders, everyone has to be like, well, what was that? Was that a ritual? Hondo. But Candice doing the conga line on the Traders is a big moment. This record is on. Miley is having a moment. New name, new album, two exclusive shows. So IHart

Radio is sending you to experience it all. Life at the Hollywood pole. Lites, hotel, tickets, and a thousand dollars cash. Listen to IHard new music for 10 minutes a day on the IHart. Radio app and click enter. Every day you listen is another chance to win. Stream Miley's new album, Bass Persuades, today. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise.

Sometimes it's a police uniform. And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an IHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts. Search for IHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast.

It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youan. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anyone fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today.

Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business, and I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, they were just honest about this, There would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight.

Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. If anyone wanted to commit a murder,

up here would be the greatest place in the world to hide the body. But no one will find it. He acted friendly. He talked friendly. He sounded friendly. They all knew that I did the scary boogie stuff, and I said, maybe she'll find out where this girl is. I saw him violent.

Backhanded a bow! And that's exactly what made us all think. He had something to do with it. The clock is ticking down and the woods are calling. There are a lot of demons in Putnam County, but I've met the devil, and he's real. I'm Paul Solitara and this is season two of the devil's quarry. Listen to The Devil's Quarry Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and to hear the Devil's Quarry Season 2

ad free with exclusive content subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts I'm realizing the one thing we really didn't talk about was the VMAs The VMAs A lot happened A lot happened

Thrill for Madonna Thrilled Madonna had a lot of time You saw primetime? I saw primetime yesterday I'm looking at the dock now Okay let's so you're thrilled Let's talk VMAs for a second And then we'll switch into that

And we'll end But tell me about your thoughts thoughts on the VMAs? Fabulous. It was just, what a thrill to see Madonna up there. The person who practically, the reason the VMAs are still on is her. I loved Sawadika, Swatika.

And I thought, I thought, it was a nice moment. Casey was great. Casey was amazing. And I loved Madonna and Sabrina having a moment together. I think Madonna did, and I say this lovingly. a beautiful boomer thing, which is like, I DM'd you a bunch and you didn't respond.

What'd you think? I thought, like, well, here's the thing. So it was kind of just an evening to honor, like, the reasons why the VMAs have been iconic. Right. And it felt to me, and I think it was a well-produced show, and I think everything was great. It did feel to me a little bit like this,

the VMAs are sort of ending. because it was on CBS. And it also feels like there's kind of a nice three-act structure here with Madonna. Oh my God. You know what I mean? It's like Madonna like in the heyday of the VMAs, you know, the like a virgin performance, et cetera, like moving through like the Vogue performance. Like these incredible moments that created the iconography that really the VMA stands on through Act 2, you know, famously the Christina and Brittany kiss, you know. Now to this, like she's having this huge moment with Confessions 2.

And really the VMAs and Madonna like are a story together in a way. Oh, yeah. It kind of feels like that. And my favorite moment of it was, yeah, the Madonna and Sabrina stuff. I was kind of disappointed to realize because I watched it later. The Charlie scowling at Taylor thing. That didn't actually happen, which felt very VMAs to me. Like Charlie scowling Taylor while she accepts an award,

that felt video music awards to me, and then I realized it didn't even happen. And also, if that were real, it would have been interesting. It was just interesting to comment on the fact that Charlie was just even clapping along anyway. It was a funny gif. You know what I mean? I mean, no, it's on its own, it's fabulous. And it is.

It will last. It will stand the test of time. So Sabrina, I would say one thing. This is what I wanted to comment on. So she's cast as Ginger Rogers. Aunt Ginger. Love that. In the Fred Astaire biopic with Tom Holland,

I think that is going to be a huge moment for her. Absolutely. My opinion is Sabrina Carpenter of her pop star peer group is the most natural movie star. And I think that I was watching actually clips of Fred and Ginger dancing together and I could see Sabrina doing it. And I was like, wow, I think that there is like an un- mind well of like

stardom for her in that medium that I think she is really well suited to. I know. I was really excited to hear about that casting. That feels exactly right. I know. That's exciting. Sometimes casting well casting directors are some of our most

they're some of our hottest people. Oh enough. And casting directors are incredible. I want to just say to all the casting directors out there, thank you for what you do. And a lot of us want to suck you. And my take is that casting directors have had enough love in recent years because y'all have a fucking category at the Oscars now. That's enough.

So everyone out there who's written taking Bowen-Yang off casting list because of that comment? Well, no one's casting me. They're not casting me either, girl. There you go. You got cast by Henry Russell Bergstein and Bow-Mary. Well, Henry is a dear friend of ours. So you sucked them. You suck for roles.

You suck for Bow-Mary? I sucked for Bow-Marry. I did. It's Rule of Culture number eight. Bo and Yang sucked for Bo Mary. Not sucked in, he rocked in. What do you mean? I was sucked?

No, I'm saying, so you said Bowen Yang sucked for Bo Mary. Oh, yeah. And not sucked in Bo Mary, he rocked in Bo Mary. Oh, I rocked in Bo Mary. Is there anything literally? Oh, oh, I saw the history of concrete. Oh, yeah. The new John Wilson doc.

Did you ever see? How to with John Wilson? No, I'm a John Wilson neophyte. Oh, love, love, love. But I loved this. And I was, I went to the IFC and all the screenings all day were sold out, which I love to see. And I sat in a terrible seat in the front row in the middle up like this and still had the time of my life. It's really kind of fascinating.

And I still am working out in my mind what it was about. Because there are layers to it. But in a way, he kind of is, like he talks about how after the show, how to gets canceled on HBO. He then is looking for other work. And he's kind of just really, he stumbles upon the history of concrete. And he tries to sell it like it's a Hallmark movie. And I'm still trying to work out like exactly how these things connected.

But they did work out for me comedically. And what I love more than anything is just not a mean depiction of normal working. class people, but a very real honest and comedic depiction of working class people. There's a guy that works at a company called Gum Busters that sucks the gum out of the concrete on the sidewalk. That's huge. And he is so excited to be on camera talking about what he's doing. He's like posing for the camera.

Did any of the straight guys in here see history of con, just you? Producer Anna is kind of our straightest guy. You kind of are one of the straightest guys that works here. You know? You want to see it. But see, and if you've seen how to, it's like, he has this lens towards like, you know, regular people all the time. It's like, it's very sweet. I love it.

And it was like, here's the thing. It was like he clearly is gaining all their trust and getting all these people to sign waivers to that this can happen. And if I was in the movie, I was thinking like, how would I feel about being depicted? And obviously I can't step into these people's shoes. but all I can say is like there is something very obviously real, but there's something really kind of gentle about the way that he's depicting people, even if they're edited in unflattering ways,

it still feels gentle and loving and appreciative. And like it's not coming at anyone's expense, and I appreciate that because it very well could. I think there's like three different kinds of, registers now with documentary and I'm going to include reality in this like it's like very cynical yeah um is one

and then it's very like elevated like almost lionizing in a way in the other and then in between that is this like what you're talking about which is what John Wilson does very well which is like gentle pretty expansive

really nice You know what I mean? Well, there's a really surprising revelation at the end. And it's, I think I'm going to be on my dock bag this fall because also I can't wait for you can see everything because the trailer was even better than the teaser. Yes, I love the trailer. But, yeah, I'm just re-faccentated again by...

So speaking of Lance Oppenheim, yes. I really enjoyed primetime. I kind of knew it would not be like a traditional sort of like biopic is in the right word, but it's like, I knew it would be like presented in a very specific way based on the trailer for that, right? Because we saw the trailer for prime time. Yeah, I thought it was a thrilling trailer.

I want to see it this week. Really interesting. And Pattinson's fucking amazing. He has the coolest career in Hollywood. It's amazing. Yeah. And I'm happy for him and Kester. They both, they both like.

Oh, yeah. No, everything worked out exactly right. They figured it out, even though, you know, I'm sure that was a very strange experience. They're both going to be holding Oscars within the next five. Okay. Your lips to God's ears. I think Pattinson first and Kristen second just because they're going to want to keep our writing. Merritt Weaver stands, we are.

We're so back. So back. And Skylar Gazondo. Yeah. Shout out. He's having a big moment. And now he's going to be in the Fokkers. He's going to be the Fockers.

Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers. Phoebe Bridgers. So good. Not in the movie quite enough, I would say. I'm sure she was working. I love when. a musician that you think in your mind couldn't give a fuck about like making this transition

like low key makes this transition and in such like an unbothered sleigh way because you know you know like it's not the same but it's like it reminds me like kerry brownstein all of a sudden being like an amazing sketch comedian right exactly it's like whoa like a riot girl is like the funniest is doing put a bird on it yeah well that also reminded me of because verity is coming out that's gonna be the next one i see i heard verity is a is a scream i It's basically patient zero, the music video. Literally this morning, my friend was like, is this a verity tie-in?

And I'm like, honestly, maybe in some, like, subconscious way, maybe. It kind of does feel like that. But Showalter directed it. I know. And I'm like, talk about someone who, that's my guy. I love Michael Showalter. I know. I've loved him as a fan.

Yeah. So he's such an interest. He directed, for people that don't know, he directed, I love him. that for you, which was the series I was on on Showtime. And he's such a fascinating guy because he's like a sketch comedy god. But he has this way of directing, particularly lead actresses. He also directed, you know, to tie in with, you can see everything. He directed Amanda Seifred in, drop out. Drop out. Yeah. So he's, and he directed Tammy Fay, which got Jessica, her Oscar. He also directed the idea of you with Anne Hathaway. He and Anne Hathaway have like a real thing.

Yeah. And there's something to be said about sketch comedy needing to be so many things. Zach Greger. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That then in the maturity of those instincts, you start to be able to understand many different genres. Because in sketch comedy, you need to be able to be all the genres so that you can satirize them. And then you see these people take them seriously, and it's really interesting and cool what happens.

And you just understand, yeah, you just understand the fractals or you know how to like, macrocosmically tell a story, whatever. I'm excited for Verity. Primetime. I just thought it was great. I thought it was very a linear. I thought it was like just don't go in expecting like a gripping like full story. It's just kind of like it's more of like a mood piece about like this one man's obsession with like making something crazy on TV.

Because then you, because you watch it and you are like, God, to catch a predator really. really was fucking crazy. Rough. I remember I was never watching it because I was always watching Lost. Uh-huh. It was out of the same time is lost. That's literally a whole plot.

Stop it. I think the real Jeff Zucker, I was maybe too drowsy. Yeah, it was the real Jeff Zucker. And I was like, oh, God, why am I watching Jeff Zucker act? Act. But, um,

it was he good? It's a whole thing. I mean, he, like, I think he matched the tone of it to Jeff Zucker's credit. Um, like, matched the tone of this. That's rule of culture number 60. To Jeff Zucker's credit. dot, dot, dot, dot, um,

but it's a whole thing it's like, we're gonna put you on the same time as and you go like, look to look at the board, lost. And it's like, it's nuts.

And then, um, and it's just this whole thing about like, vigiliani journalism meets like this bloodlust that we all have for like justice, meets like, it's kind of tying it back.

It's tying it back. And it meets this like, you know, our society's interesting perspective on pedophilia, interesting and whatever, not in the, it. Not that it's complex.

That it can be entertainment. And in the sort of like weird like extrajudicial way that like they were humiliating these people who sure were doing something immoral and disgusting. But it was like people

like decoying and like bringing up the proposition of sex first to then lure these people. And it's just it is so complicated. It obviously is. Well, it's, you know what's funny? It was a very cavalier show because what's happening there is what you're doing is, of course, on face value, it's like, yeah, sure, you're catching predators. What you're also doing is you are making it entertainment. And that is incredibly

triggering to people who have really been abused, who have really been attacked, who have really been, who have had family members who maybe aren't here anymore because of the seriousness of this, because it is very serious. And just to, kind of like, you know, what were you going to say? Well, no, I mean, you're absolutely right. The movie kind of ends on this really violent tragedy. Yeah. Which really happened.

Which really happened. And even in the moments right after this, like, kind of what the thesis of the movie is just that like it is purely for spectacle and entertainment. Exactly, because like the producer has the take of like, well, fuck, we didn't get to interview him. You know what I mean? So you already know the tea. Well, I know basically, I knew we were going to talk about it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I saw the doc, so I just familiarized myself a little bit. But I guess, and we won't end on this note. We'll do something stupid to make you forget. But the way that, and I mentioned this a few months ago, because nothing ever really happened with anything, anyone that was like, you know, implicated in the Epstein stuff. And the way that this just gets casually and cavalierly thrown around

is incredibly triggering, which is why I've been really heartened to see people actually take as seriously as we should, the Cornell 7, who should absolutely rot. And the 57 people in that fucking fraternity who did not call for help when that Snapchat was going on. Because we are too comfortable with this just being news of the day. And we did it with school shootings, and we've done it with politics. Need I remind you, he is, grab him by the pussy. Our country and our media just continues.

to accept this. And it has to be up to fucking Florence Pugh to make a stink about it on Instagram who, by the way, blurred her post and then she called them out on it again when she posted again. Who met it blurted her post? Yes, they did.

Yes, they did. Awesome. And they deserve to be fucking dragged for it. So now we have to do something stupid. Amazing segment. Who's on the phone? That's how we're going to end all the catch-ups. We're not doing I don't think so, honey.

Who's on the phone, Bo? Hello? Oh, my God, it's Bruce Valanche. Will you have not put on Bruce? What is this bit? We have not talked to. We cut that out. No, we don't have to cut it.

Cut that out, no. How do we end these cultural catchups? Because I'm not doing I don't think so, honey. We're not doing anything so honey? Okay. How do we end to this? Who is your favorite mascot of the moment? Masked of the moment?

Yes. Well, the Philly fanatic. Okay, that's great. Who is your favorite mascot of the moment? Mrs. Matt, who was recently inducted into the mascot Hall of Fame and is the first female mascot to be inducted in the mascot Hall of Fame. Can we just clap for Mrs. Met, please? Beating out Ellie the Elephant, who might feel a certain way, but Ellie was very supportive

because she did show up to Mrs. Met's birthday. I like an underdog narrative for Ellie. Did you see Ellie The Elephant is releasing new music and it's very Mariah? The Ellie, the elephant aesthetic is very like, you know, it's like Mariah and silhouette, feathered hair sort of giving like emancipation era. Yes. Really like that for Ellie. I think she's saying Mariah at a Liberty game recently. Yes, she did.

Well, that's what I'm saying. She's sort of in her Mariah back now. She's in her Mariah bag. She's in a new era. Absolutely. Ellie, the elephant having eras. It's so fun. I love Ellie.

Oh, my God. I love her. She will be inducted soon. Well, we are about to record our episode with. Edie Modica, which you can look forward to this Wednesday. And we're excited about it. We're so excited about it. And this has been our first culture catch-up that we're releasing the same weeks as our regular episode with guests.

And it was fun. It was fun, wasn't it? More to come. We end every episode with a long stare into the camera as there's a slow fade out. We end every episode with a little gasp. Hamilton. I love it. I love Hamilton.

Las Culturacis is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and Iheart Radio podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yang. Executive produced by Anna Hosnii and produced by Becker-Ramos. Edited by Hot Dog Sandwich. And our music is by Henry Kversky. Hey everybody, it's me, Matt, and my tour is on sale now. This time it's really Christmas. You can go to www.matrogersofficial.com.

Podcast are a visual medium. If you're not watching me right now, I am holding in my hands my vinyl. It's called Have You Heard of Christmas? The answer to that question is coming. At this time, it's really Christmas. I'm playing all over the country and in London and in Canada. That makes it a world tour. Harry Stiles, you're on burn notice.

I'll see you soon. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an IHeart True Crime Plus

subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait, head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa? Tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Yuanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business.

Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana Jeremy Colhane Patrick McDonald And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artist Podcast

The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast Where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants And we do a little Halloween sometimes Does the Pope dress up He winks on Halloween

He gets right up next to the microphone I hear you can almost hear The eyelashes hit each other You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour.

You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.