Last Podcast On The Left - A Conversation with My Favorite Murder

Episode Date: December 14, 2016

We've got a bonus episode this week with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark, co-hosts of My Favorite Murder! Join us as we talk about the differences and similarities between our two shows, why true crime seems to have taken off recently, and the strange things that people get offended by.

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk on the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? We're good to go. Everybody feeling good? We still don't know what we're going to talk about, but that's no reason not to welcome people to the show. Thanks so much for tuning in. I'm Ben Kissel, Marcus Parks, Henry Zabrowski. We have some amazing guests with us today for my favorite murderer, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Thank you guys so much for being here. This is like a family reunion. It's like a holiday thing.

He's very bad at this. Is it Kilgariff? It is Kilgariff. Nice. What the hell are you talking about? I've been doing this for years, Henry. If you embarrass me in front of the guests. Except for it's my favorite murder. Yeah, I got the name of the podcast. What did I call it?

My favorite murderer. Oh my God. We're starting over. Welcome to the show. We got two guests. We got Georgia Kilgariff and Karen Hardstark with us there for my least favorite murderer. And what a show it's going to be. You know the podcast. The podcast is very powerful right now. And the thing is right now, both of us, we're on top of the charts. We're the best that can be in the genre.

And we know that. Technically, they're on top of the charts. They are on top of the charts. That's fine. I'm fine with sniffing the butt. Because that's what I do. No, we're podcasts are the wave of the fucking future. And we are like cresting that. I don't know. What's a wave metaphor? Cresting. Cresting the...

Yeah, like Donald Trump's hair. Right. Yeah, so we're sort of on the top of it right now. We're on top of that right now. And then we go slide off of that into his daughter's vagina. I don't know. This is not the political show. I don't know. It always comes to me saying something weirdly political. I know. Ever since Trump got elected, should you just fucking throw in Trump in there?

I don't know what to do. Shoe horns it in. But I mean, it does seem like true crime podcasts specifically are really the ones that have sort of cornered the podcast market. Why is that? Is this because people are able to explore the dark side of their mind in the privacy of their cubicle at work? Is it because people were, they felt like it was too taboo of a subject

to discuss publicly? Yeah, but why podcasts in general? I'll take this one. Thank you. No, I have no fucking idea. It's super weird. I mean, to us, it just feels like we had an idea. So we started doing a thing and then people got excited about it.

Yeah. But I do think it's that thing of like an interest like true crime as in seems like an individual interest. Like you have to kind of, I didn't know my own relatives were into true crime until we started doing this podcast. Yeah. Because it wasn't anything I was telling anybody else about. I think we need to go.

No, go on, Georgia. I think when you do a podcast, like we do where it's just, it's not produced. It's just us talking. They feel like you're friends too. Like you're talking to your friends. And it creates an intimate fan base because people show up and they'll say things about my life that I didn't realize

that I talked about all of a sudden. They know a lot of things, like details about my love life, details about where I live. Got a surprise package in the mail the other day. No. Someone got my address and says another thing very similar to the Dibbock box we got. Someone called my phone.

I just remembered this. Someone got your number? Someone fucking drunk DJ in Saskatchewan. He said he was drunk and he's like, we want to ask you about podcast and call us back. How the fuck? I don't want me to play it. I forgot this fucking thing happened.

I don't think you have to clarify that he was drunk. We know. He's a DJ in Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan. He's got to be drunk. There's no denying that. But this is kind of good. People who love true crime, who love the dark side of the world,

they're able to kind of come into the forefront now and not feel as if they're in the shadows. Yes. And you know a lot of people, and I'm sure with your guys' show as well, they've sort of created really great bonding friendships over it. Yeah. They're sweet.

Over murder. It's like they're all making friends over murder. It's nice though. It's like it leads to something positive at the very end. Yes, there's so many victims. So many friends build on the pile of that. But it's nice. There's nothing we can do about that part now.

No. Look, we can't go backwards. We can't change any of that shit. All I'm going to say is thank... I can honestly say thank them. I thank them for what they've done. Oh, the victims? No, I'm talking about the murderers themselves.

And that's what Richard Vermeer has always said. He said, one day they'll find love. And I will be the cause of that love. Then they'll thank me. They'll thank them. No, it's because we've had a lot of weird marriages, which is nice. We've got to ask them.

Weird marriages. Normal marriages of loving people who like weird stuff. Kind of weird. That's a weird marriage, I feel it. Yeah, we've had quite a few people meet through the podcast and then get married. That's so cute. Yeah, a lot of them.

I love that. But just as many relationships of people getting together through the podcast and just having horrific times. Falling apart. Just absolutely falling apart. Yeah. Well, how did you guys run? How did you guys come to find that you guys had a mutual

interest in serial killers and macabre? We were at a Halloween party. Matt McCarthy's Halloween party. Oh, yeah, of course. We know him. My body double. Yes, exactly. We're literally the same genes at some point.

He's a little bit bigger, though. He's taller. Yes, he is more masculine. That's what we're trying to say. The McCarthy-Zabrowski type is a very strong type in Hollywood. Yes, we're out there. You are. You really are.

So we were at a party and we didn't know each other really, but we'd been around each other a little bit. But I told a horrible story that I thought people were going to enjoy in the middle of this party about how I witnessed. A couple of years ago, there was that terrible car accident at South by Southwest where the guy drove up the street. Yeah. I was there.

So there was a line of people trying to get into X to see them outside the venue. And I was the last person in line. And then I walked over to my friends to be like, let's not wait in line anymore. And then that car fucking drove up the street. Fuck. So I love that story.

And I love near-misses or like, how do you get out of that? Right. I'm always thinking about that. I thought it was the coolest story to tell. And you should have seen it. It was like eight faces that all went white. Yeah. And people that were like, I'm going to go get it.

Be like wandering away. And like from a far, she comes forward with her arm like, oh my God, tell me every single thing. Right. I was like, I love this girl. Obsessed. And then from there, we just like started talking about the staircase and then just like went in these fucking like crazy direction.

And it's, yeah, there's like so few people you can talk to about this. Right. Like weird. Yeah. You just described the listener base of both of our shows. Every single one of us have all had that same moment where you just start talking about something. You see everybody in the room.

You just see their faces go white. You see them not wanting to hear what you're saying, but you can't stop. You just have to keep going. You can't stop. I love that story. I have this thing where like, I'll meet someone and they'll tell me where they're from. And I'll say, oh, you guys have some good murders. And they're like, what the fuck are you talking about?

I'll say, oh, yeah, we had this one and it would like, they'll tell me about it. And then I'm like, oh, you're my friend. Yeah. Otherwise you don't get it. But it does create really instant bonds. And then you find out who the real actually good people are. Because I think people are some good people who don't love to know all the murders that happen.

I don't want to meet them. It's very boring. Life is really dark. And so it's like a thing where it's like, I kind of focus on that a lot. It's like, you know, my thing was always probably child prostitution rings. And when you bring that up and selective things, there are certain people are all like very much like, interesting. Yeah.

Which is also probably bad because they're probably involved in the rings. I don't want to, you know, toot our own horn, but we do have business meetings happening. You know, and Henry always brings up child prostitution. Every time. And we go in and we're like going in and it's like, OK, the one thing you can't mention is boy murder. That's the only thing you can't mention. The only thing.

I didn't really noticeably bad in a pitch meeting that we had where we walked in because I was like, we come up with a bunch of like episode ideas and we're trying to pitch a thing. And the first thing I led with was a thing that I thought was really funny. But I just said, it was like episode called boys, boy murder, snips, nails and puppy dogs tales. I thought that that was really funny. And they just were like. Well, you know what I think is there?

Everyone has their like thing that they're into. Like Karen, like Sailor Killers, I like fucking cold cases. We all have our little things that we like, but you can't you can't fucking pick and choose between like if you're going to be really into, you know, sex workers getting murdered, then you can't fucking shy away from boy prostitutes. You just you have to. You cannot. You got to take that.

That's just an olive on the pizza. Yeah. Don't look at me like I'm crazy when you're into fucking. Wait, the boy is the olive one of the olives. If you slice up a boy. Green. Like a bunch of olives. Yeah.

What am I talking about? Well, also, there's a feeling to me to it of like, hold my hand and we're going to look into the abyss, which is I'm used to looking to the abyss by myself. That's where you were saying it starts with that where you're like, I was like probably eight or nine when I first opened up of the encyclopedia of serial killers and I was just like, thank you. I feel like we all knew that the world was shit. And now we're just like, I'm like horrible and scary.

And so now we just had to learn about it and understand it a little more. And I feel like safer and like, I'm not trying to fucking ignore my anxiety. I'm like diving right into it. Well, that's one of the things that we try to do with our shows is to show that like these serial killers, they're not monsters. You know, there's not somebody hiding behind every corner. You don't have to be afraid. You're fucking losers.

And a lot of times, I don't think we've helped alleviate any fears. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. I get emails all the time. You have people saying that they have less anxiety about all this shit because they listen to us. I'm more terrified than ever. That's all I know.

I've been doing this show for five years. I'm a six foot seven man. And I'm still fairly certain somebody wants my skin. I get that. I'm pretty terrified. I am constantly now looking at people being like, that guy fucking murdered someone. Like I'll say that my husband, Vince, sometimes like that guy's a fucking killer. And he's like, what the fuck is wrong with that with pedophiles?

In my opinion, you're a pedophile until proven not a pedophile. I mean, I was watching George W. Bush's State of the Union the other day. Dennis Haster's just sitting right behind him. They're all pedophiles. They are. They are. Why were you watching? I watched Old State of the Union.

That is weird. Are you going to run for office? No, I don't think I can because on the last episode, Henry Zabrowski said something very inflammatory and now I'm complicit. What did I say? I don't know. There's been plenty. I mean, we have talked about the possibility of Ben Kessel running for mayor of New York

City. Oh, I can see that. Yeah. Be very fun. I'd be deputy mayor and do all the real work. Yeah. You would have to do shit. It would be like that show Spin City.

Yeah. Or that show Last Podcast on the Left. Oh, yeah. That's right. Oh, Marcus, that's an under. That's a deep cut. I get it. I get it because I'm a long standing fan.

I actually used to listen to this podcast, not used to, but when I first started listening to this podcast, I was home for Christmas and I would do this thing where I would leave my, I would go to bed, listen to it, leave the earbuds in, and then it would just play all the episodes. So I would have these dreams that we were all at a party, but you wouldn't let me talk. And it would make me so mad and hear me like, you got, but you guys are, and it would just be like, you're talking about this topic in the podcast. You just described my nightmare.

I didn't even know what my true fear was, but that's it. Without a doubt. Yeah. It does feel like that. It does sometimes feel like we're shouting at a group of people. Do you feel like it's a, like, I think you guys, your tone is a little bit more, it's like more conversational where ours is definitely like, half the time, more my tone. Yeah.

In general. You guys have big personalities and I think, you know, I think with three people, it's so much harder than with Karen and I just talking to each other the way we would normally without being recorded. Any, not that much accurate information. Oh, that's not true. We have to really kind of go around and like talk about as much stuff as we can. We have to do a lot more legwork to get over how evil the show is.

It's like, we have to add something to society to then also attack society, to bring society apart. Yeah. We've got to provide information. Do you think, I mean, it does seem strange. I wasn't expecting so many female listeners, quite frankly, because I'm not attractive and none of us are, but maybe that doesn't matter. Do you?

I like me. Yeah. I know you like you. I like me. You're like John Candy from Plain Strains and Automobiles. You know, I like me. My wife liked me. By the way, I think his wife was in the box.

That's what I decided. Oh, I didn't hear that. Yes. That's what I did. I rewatched that movie. By the way, people driving the wrong way down the road. John Candy did that in Plain Strains as well. He's a sociopath and the wife is in the box.

I need some time with that. I know. Well, think about it. You're blowing. I just watched that recently. Yeah. I just watched it now knowing that he is a killer. He just opens it up and he's being like, so glad you made it home for Thanksgiving.

Sure. He's having sex with it. That was a secret. He only opens the suitcase one time when he's in the hotel room with Steve Martin. He pulls out a picture and a pillow, which is so much creepier to think there's a corpse in there as well. Why does the box need to be that big? A pillow and a picture?

The pillow, it smells like her fucking rotting corpse. Oh, he smells it like Dennis Hopper and blue velvet. I have to smell Becky before bed. Oh, fuck everything that moves. I'm so creeped out. What were we talking about? Has it made you, do you feel more empowered when dealing with the subject matter or less knowing how disgusting this is?

Because obviously women tend to be the major victims of the majority of serial killers. I guess I like the empowerment part of just the interest. It's like you can't do anything about what's going to happen, fate is fate, whatever. But it's kind of like saying I'm not afraid to face reality. It's that thing of things don't have to be nice, nice all the time. I like when things are bad in the way that I can be interested in things, I can like like things that are gross. I don't know, there's a little bit of that.

When I was 12 years old is when I saw the map that Ted Bundy had drawn where all the bodies were in his house. And no, no, no, Dahmer, no Ted. I'm sorry, Casey. If Dahmer couldn't find the bodies in his little apartment, he's the worst adventurer of all time. Marcus just looked like the kid in class where he's just like... No, I just...

That was a definition. No, it's the definition of our podcast. That was that way. No, microcosm of what we do. That's good. And what you do. We don't have a Marcus Park. No.

We were just like oh my God. I've always been the nerdy kid. Yeah. Lisa Simpson. It was. But it basically that feeling of looking at that picture and loving it so much and knowing it was wrong and now doing a thing where it's not wrong anymore and actually it's actually very popular.

It's her fucking career now which is so great. And it's common. It's like it's proving that a lot of people it's not this weird thing. It's not an anomaly. And I get like I'm so terrified of like I kind of see the more I read about it the more like that's not going to happen to me because I know about it. It's the stupid thing like if you can if you can imagine something's going to happen then it won't happen to you.

Yeah. I had an old librarian which I imagine was like a probably a near miss on a molestation scenario with me where he came to me as I was reading a book he's like knowledge is power. He's explained to me about how like if you're afraid of something you just need to really learn about it. And then first and then. Are you afraid of cock?

Oh I love roosters. Not for me. Too nerdy. Yeah. I like I kind of the deeper I get into it the more yeah because I'm fucking cynical as shit and I'm not going to pretend that everything's fine it's not and it makes me feel better that's like it's not fine it's okay. And the world's catching up to us.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the joke that Henry was making it all year is that if Donald Trump gets elected president the three of us are going to host Good Morning America. Yeah. Like if we move to the center. Yeah. Like we're less offensive than the president.

And Good Morning America will start promptly at 2 10 p.m. Well when the fuck did you wake up America? Just sleep a life away. You'll get your on camera integration with any beer of your choice. Yeah. It'll be amazing. But Henry is right. Yeah the world is finally catching because we've been doing this show for five, six years.

We just did episode 250 last week. Wow. And it took a lot. I mean it wasn't until about maybe a year, year and a half ago that people finally started paying attention. We always had like a listener base like a pretty solid listener base but over the last you know year and a half it's doubled if not tripled. So weird.

What's your journey been like with my favorite murder which I did I mean I just have a Wisconsin tongue it always adds extra letters to everyone. Bullshit. Oh no that's bullshit. Okay. What was your what was it like for you guys when you guys started I mean you just throw this stuff out into the ether and you don't know yes please. Karen found this text and sent it to me this morning and it's like it's super like ask

Kasey as Karen said but. This is oh shit I edited out the date. I have it. October 3rd. October 3rd. Last year. October 3rd. 2015.

She sends me a text that says can we start a true crime podcast and says crime and pot as meant. Was your kid. Crime and pot as meant. Oh I like that. It seems like it's about crime and like a secret urn. I love making up students. And I wrote back haha but how would how would we ever compete with those fools on last podcast

on the left. They're so great. I'm on John Wayne Gacy now. That's weird. I obviously didn't pay that much attention and then you said they don't only do crime. We don't have to give all the info. Just kind of talk about it and give some facts and get excited and say our theory. Literally.

That's the podcast. Exactly. I can't believe you fucking found that weird. Oh my god. See we did the podcast kind of opened up to the side of the paranormal and the occult because it that's kind of what Marcus and I it's like other real obsession is and then the podcast became a way for us to become experts on my behalf. It was like became a perfect excuse of now I can completely dedicate my life to essentially

all this fake shit which is essentially but it's only but it's as real as you want it to be and I and I've learned a lot and have grown a lot since then like but that's what's cool. I'm excited about how all of these things kind of help each other. All these podcasts kind of exist in the same worlds and like we can do both. I think it's just I'm so fucking stoked at this thing we've been obsessed with on our own for fucking you know since we were kids is now something we get to talk about and like people listen to and it's our fucking job now and I had no idea that would be a

thing. It's unbelievable right. I just I'm finally only making money off of the podcast. I quit my producer job at Fox News because I have to focus on the positive things in life. So just true crime. Yeah but so what was the first episode that you guys did and did you guys just like jump right in after that text message.

Yeah I think so. Yeah. It was like well that was October and we started what in April was it. I don't know. March. I don't either. Yeah I don't. Yeah we just kind of like we were having lunch and we were like what could it be and

we were taking notes and shit and I was peeing and I was like my favorite like it was I remember peeing and fucking I did my best thinking it was just like all these stupid names like crime and punishment and then it was like my favorite murder and we'll fucking talk about a favorite murder that week and it just got it just went from there and then I listened to a couple of the first episodes and you can tell like you can you can hear us like creating this thing that like it wasn't a fully formed thing until like episode 15 or something. But no one really has a full like that's that's the trick that nobody really understands

people some guy tweeted us recently asking us how do you get started in a podcast and first of all I was like we're full and then second of all it was just like no longer taking any new podcast. Yeah and then the second it was just like but it's like you have to just make the first step of recording that first thing and then all of a sudden you can find it and you have to be willing to make a bunch of mistakes and then just know it's gonna kind of live there forever and then if not and if it's really offensive in our case you could just delete it.

Yeah. Maybe. I have an old one that I would never like an old podcast that I started and it would we got really lucky to because I had another podcast on Farrell Audio and the guy who created that Dustin Marshall is just like so cool and he's such a like he has like this punk rock mortality and I was like can we start a podcast and he was like yes so he kind of just like got you know we just got to record it and put it out there and he was open to it. Yeah.

And for us like I don't think we really figured out what we were doing until I think it's episode 68 or 67 or at least I didn't I don't think I did like the first like research heavy episode was like Satan or the satanic panic satan silence which is fantastic if you're interested in that stuff that started like the heavy because before the first like 50 or 60 episodes it wasn't that research heavy it was like you know a couple of hours before the shit you know a couple of hours of like looking shit up making maybe a spreadsheet or something but after Satan's silence I was like oh shit I love this like I love really getting a lot of information and then it got to be we're like a book a couple of books

and then just kind of built from there and now we're episode you know 250 and we're about to do Jack the Ripper and you can see the stack of books that I have over there. Not suddenly left out I honestly think he gestures at people several times being like do you see the books I read there's nothing in those books all the pages are completely empty. It's just a flat. I was working on it earlier god damn it. No.

The book in the shining seemed like a masterpiece. There's no words in those. I can read four books. I can read seven. That's you. But no but it's gotten to a point where it's just so much because I love doing it so much you know like I've always been like a nerdy book kid so now this is my job is like being a nerdy book kid I fucking love it.

Like being the expert the thing that I've discovered is we have all these people that listen that are so passionate that when we fuck up it's like they go like don't be mad but actually it's this and it's like that thing where yeah we don't have to be the way we do it thank god. We don't have to be perfect about it because there are people who are like die hard experts that know every date and every stabbing and every single thing. And that's the thing we seem to get feedback to and it's never like you guys are idiots this is the truth.

It's always an addition to the information and I think that's so refreshing except for the shit where they get at us about when we how we pronounce things and guns if you mess up on a gun they will tell you they are so intricate about these guns and there's nothing more obnoxious than a gun nerd. Yeah I'll make it I'll make a mistake about this don't anger them because you don't give a shit and it's like if I did I would have fucking learned it. Well it's like for example like the Columbine episode where I was talking about how well thank you but you know really that was what people really focused in on.

I was saying that you know they used tech nines as their long range weapons and they did. They did actually use tech nines for long range weapons and I got so many emails and tweets like the tech nine is a shitty gun for a long range weapon I think you got that wrong. No it's because they're shithead kids they don't know what the fuck they're doing they still use tech nines. You didn't get that wrong they got that fucking wrong. Exactly yeah I heard the tech nine wasn't a long range weapon that's all I know I don't

think it's a long range weapon. It's great for me. Those Columbine kids it was the one thing that they got wrong. Yeah. I loved it. Everything else is spot fogging. It's so good. Down to the outfit.

Someone's going to fucking think you're serious about that and fucking rip you up like it's normal. I got so many at the majority of the people that we get commenting are the fucking coolest like the listeners are fucking coolest people and then there's one person who doesn't fucking get it like someone thought we were a Republican because we made jokes about we're all over the map. It's crazy. People tell us people tell us that we're number one cuck I got the word cuck sent to

me like five or six times. I don't want to hear that word ever again. It's meaningless. It means nothing. It's stupid. But also then we're called like Nazi it's like all it's all over this but they don't know what to say they just got mad they got upset about something they want to attack us.

It's like I just lean in. I want to ask you guys what you what you feel your most controversial episode was because I know going to that sort of harken to your point Henry. We did black serial killers and we knew for a fact that you know people on the left often times will want to you know put individuals on a pedestal and be like there's no black serial killers. People on the right don't care. That's what it's not talked about.

And so that's why Marcus did such a great job at Henry with researching that episode. And but we did get a lot of flak people are like that's a racist episode when in reality you know this is a these people exist and their community deserves to have some like shown out of the snow. We got a lot of flak from white people from white people because we have a very great I don't want to say the word diverse because I think that the word is overused but we have a great group of people listening. Did you guys ever find a I can't wait for the apology tour.

What am I apologizing for tour let me know. Any subject matter that you guys were like oh we should have talked about that or we talked about that we weren't expecting the blowback that we got. People don't like children. They don't like deep like heavy details of children getting murdered. And I know and they fucking hate animals getting murdered. You know which but I don't think they're mad about it. And it's like I have this thing of like if you're gonna if you're gonna fucking research

it you should know everything about it like I won't research a murder and not look for crime scene photos because I think that's fucking dick of me to like I can only dive in this deep and no I should fucking understand. And I think they don't like really gross details. The one thing that really hit me with about the about crime scene murder specifically was going into OJ Simpson when we did the OJ Simpson episode. Because you don't really realize the ferocity of which she was murdered sure how much she was basically decapitated.

Yeah. And when you will look at that me like oh wow somebody was really pissed off. I don't think I think everyone needs to fucking see those photos and oh god the fucking Ron Goldman slumped in the fucking bushes like I think you need to see that photo. And you know he did such shitty karate defender. Well he's an actor working as a waiter in L.A. OJ Simpson is a professional athlete one of the best of all time. But he had like a chance.

But he had like a green belt and all those pictures of him like doing karate like he was and him just going like yeah yeah yeah. Oh honey you know what was on his like resume like I can do karate. What are you. I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry. God damn it. No we just in the beginning we were getting a lot of comments about how we need to be intersectional feminists.

Can you explain that. No I cannot. I personally resent shit like that because it's like it's cannibalizing when there's such a huge enemy out there. It's like what are you fucking doing. But we did we've made some mistakes like recently we said something talking about a trans person and we said it incorrectly and the people who whoever heard it took it like we meant it as if it was derogatory yeah they took it in a derogatory way so in that that used

to piss me off. But now it has that feeling of like either you don't know us or we just need to do this more so you understand where we actually yeah I'm really scared of like not I want to be diverse in my in my murders I don't want to just do you know the thing of like pretty white women who get killed it's just like no they get killed it seems like it's just you know how those are those are covered more than anything else so I don't want to do this all the time but I also don't want to be like you know sensational and talk about I don't know it's just there's a lot of ways to fuck up there's a lot of ways to actually I got

a on the opposite side of what you were talking about I got called a social justice warrior on our yeah that's a bad thing so on our manifesto's episode because we were covering Elliott Roger and I kind of went off on a tire it's like if a girl does not like you it is your fault right it is your fault you you are doing something wrong if a girl doesn't like if it yeah if every girl doesn't like any girl the girl does not like you it is your fault well sometimes you can be really charming and sometimes but if there's a guy on an area very very and that's exactly what people got mad about because Ben got defensive and I was like no no no no no if a girl does not like you it is your fault I'm wearing

my best I always say I'll have a little bit of soap left on me apology tour 2019 but they didn't yeah but they called me a social justice warrior and said that I was awful for saying that right and that is that the you're just being fucking not a piece of shit dude and that's a social just like it's like you're being a liberal or you're being fucking politically correct really just being a good fucking person yeah but on the other hand I got tweeted at by a guy the other day who I think his name was proud white boy and he had a big he had a big swastika he had a big swastika and a noose as his tweet you know as his profile picture and it was just something like hey here's this video here's this series about

the real Adolf Hitler and it was like an eight part series of YouTube videos and he's like love the show and the eclectic group of individuals it's not solely fan based not enough men white men are proud of their whiteness anymore I've been saying this I'm kidding I've been saying this over and over again be proud I go to any white homeless man I go and be proud controversial yeah I the other day on Twitter was about to respond to someone who wrote to us very critically and I was gonna do all the colors of the rainbow middle fingers and and then I just went oh this is giving them what they want because when when people interact in negative way they always get a response right it's like you're always especially I think

in comedy you're always ready to fucking snap back and like try to you know put someone in their place whereas there's all these people who are like your show and makes me so happy I never even think of like going hey personalized response for you but but of course the second someone's criticizing I it's just all that I do way to get attention I only do I only respond to the positive I always mute the negative because I will make O.J. Simpson look like a priest wait that's not good in the perfect world where priests are good people number two twenty twenty one is gonna be so much better than the twenty nineteen you know what's really cool too is that so I do the Instagram and obsessed with it and some asshole will

say some shitty thing and I'll go to respond and then like fucking ten listeners will have already ripped that fucking person apart and I don't need to say shit and it's awesome my mom taught me the most the most subtle best way to punish someone is shower with affection then silence icy silence and so that's what you do is that you pick and choose and they can see then through your whole feed who you've chosen to respond to and who you don't choose to respond to every once in a while if I'm really hammered I'll respond to a negative thing but normally I do it funny this is this is the same mother that fed the dog to death yes she fed the dog was two hundred and thirty pounds it was a chihuahua it was

it was a chocolate lab the vet refused to see the dog anymore because she wouldn't listen to my mom's like basically he would say like you have to get put this dog on a diet mom said you have no idea what you're talking about I know how to take care of this dog 230 pounds dog can't move anymore than my mom's like we decided to put the dog is just so upset that we had to put it to sleep and so then they killed the dog she fed it really big and then she gassed it to death fucking shit I was gonna say motherfucker but that's too fun yeah absolutely I mean so the conversation that seems to be occurring from these podcasts is really relevant right because it seems to be translating to real life you know actions

I mean we're selling out all these shows and I'm sure you guys are meeting these people in real life I wonder you know with radio radio is dead you know and without podcasts I wonder what the country would be like specifically when it comes to these kind of sort of conversations about true crime they would still just all be underground right well I think one of the interesting things about these true crime shows and I think one of the reasons why they are popular is because things are better now than they've ever been violent crime wise like violent crime is at its lowest level so we've got two new serial killers coming out yeah but that's in the White House but I think there's a lot more a lot less people

that are extremely intimately in touch with death and so I think people are kind of allowed to be a little bit more fascinated and you know what I think too is like up until I feel like the our podcast do this thing well so there's so many dramatized shows about true crime like everything about true crime on TV is like a fucking crazy reenactment that's super depressing and talks like this and it's insane and then like a lot of the you know the produced podcasts are really dark and fucked up but then you're you're not talking about it in a way that people like us really like the way we talk it's just nice to joke around yeah it's just nice to feel like I can be me fun of it this is me and now please

accept me yeah I think more people kind of identify with with the way we do it that are just like fucking sick fucks like we are well sort of going back to Marcus's point I mean the way and to your point the way that they cover these true crime things on like forensic files and whatnot they make them seem like masterminds but again they are just mentally insufficient individuals who have no social skills whatsoever the weakest thing in the world to do is murder somebody it's literally the you got to do the long con you got to marry them yeah slowly poison them to death and then get the money build up that arsenic yeah no one saw going put it in there with the yellow power rate that's what that song

step-by-steps all about step-by-step step-by-step step-by-step on the block yeah new kids here we go anyway it's you feel like it's it's leading to a world where these serial killers aren't as empowered as they were before because everyone's just making no are we taking away their power I think we're taking away their power by talking about them you take away their power and just they George you know they just have terrible breath like Richard Romero I mean BTK stood too close to plants I mean these guys are just idiots who don't know how to you know take care of themselves you're gonna get murdered as fact because I don't want to get murdered but it will be great for our name I don't mean I don't want

him to be the one who goes I'm not gonna get murdered well I do worry if you don't want him to be the one who goes and that means you want me to be the one no essentially it should be me I'm the one who would have the most maximum impact if I died no he's been on TV more do you count more if you've been on TV I am nervous of like pissing off a murderer for sure like like I'll do a I did a cold case recently and I was like the guy who did it is clearly this guy who's like alive in a fucking like attorney and afterwards Karen was like you probably shouldn't have said his fucking name dude no we did that on the air I was like and so all of this is actually just hearsay and we don't know it's a cold

case and he's an attorney let's not just not say for definite or maybe just we're joking that's my name I mean yeah I hadn't even hit me and I'm like oh shit that's like that's how we're learning yeah those those kinds of experience I insinuated that a certain building owned by the NSA should be destroyed in downtown Manhattan I don't think you insinuated it you said it exactly like insinuated it I said it in a joking satirical matter that that's the thing that should be done if we really want to take back control the manifesto whoever does that is going to fucking talk about Henry Zurbowski having being the culprit and the one who told him to do it is it bad to say that is my worst night in a manifesto really

that is the absolute word that is my dream what are you talking about what a credit we talk about aware of friends with with Jeff Ross Jeff Ross friends with because he's through Ed Larsen who's his cousin who's those round table gentlemen they worked all the time Jeff Ross was in the Richard Dornor manifesto he gave a shout out to him just being like here's one of my favorite comedians and they had a blast with it yeah I was laughing his ass off but you know there's a couple comics listed in that manifesto right Jay Leno Kevin Hart I'm so honored that I'm like amongst these other people but again no women come on let me ask you have you all ever gotten some really like seriously disturbing emails

or contacts or anything like that we're not read our emails anymore no dicks dick pics no nothing really overly sexual well I think that we do this thing where we ask I'm sorry that it sounds like some kind of sexual nature message did you get my email did you get my fucking email you send them dick picks no no no it doesn't look good on camera no we He asked listeners to send in their hometown murders of the fucked up thing that happened when they were kids. So I think people are just like so into emailing that, that they don't email like crazy shit.

I think some of those fucking emails are crazy, but I think people seem, I mean. And there's a couple that are like, this is my friend or this is the kind of that are personal, where we don't want to go into that. Cause it's like, this isn't about us bringing anyone to justice. Like we don't want to get into, you know.

You're gonna become the new law enforcement. You do understand that, right? And in the next administration, you guys could bust up a real crime. Like you could actually. What if we're head of a fucking crime thing? What's a crime thing? We're head of it.

Crime thing. CSI. CSI, NCIS. Fucking Karen, enjoy that. Just outfits, outfits, outfits. So many cute outfits. Wow. So many hats.

Power suits and shit. That's the best reason to get into law enforcement. Is the outfits? Yeah. I love a good belt. And I like to, I feel like a little fat Batman. Have you thought about getting into UFOs to help me get that across to more people?

I hate UFO stories. I hate it. The cult. I don't care about a cult shit. I'm sorry. I understand. I love a cult and I love cryptozoology. I love anything else.

UFO makes me feel like I'm going to start screaming. I mean. It's infuriating because none of it makes sense. And everyone should just like get up, change out of your sweatpants and go get a job. I'm just saying. It makes sense if you let it make sense. You have to let it make sense.

It's like conspiracy theories a lot. And so like sometimes when it's a UFO thing and it ties into a conspiracy theory, I'm into it, right? But yeah. Do you got a favorite conspiracy theory? Oh, I love the one that John, no, that Paul McCartney died in a car accident and like fucking in the.

Love all of that. Love the fake Paul McCartney. He did. I wish, and they got, he got replaced by a fucking dude that they like, they made, he like was a, he won a lookalike contest. They like gave him plastic surgery and for fucking years after the first album that it wasn't Paul McCartney,

he died in a fucking car accident. Oh, wings. Oh, that makes sense. Oh, I agree with that. I get that. There's actually, it's funny, Elvis Presley, he's dead. And there's a great documentary called Orion on Netflix right now about this dude

who looked just like Elvis, he sang just like Elvis and they put a mask on him two years after the passing of Elvis, after all the rumors that he was still alive. I've got a couple of Orion records. Oh, no way. Yeah, they're actually pretty solid. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

Is it true? Do you think it was him? It could be him. It wasn't, he actually ended up dying in a very sad tragic shooting. Yeah, of course. That's how he died. Nonetheless, the Paul McCartney thing makes a lot of sense.

There's an episode of, I think it's thinking sideways where they do that and I'm just like, I was obsessed with it. I love it. I do like it. Cause it's about, cause that's my whole thing. I like the idea of that you could fuck with reality really easily.

That's all it is, is to kind of entertain that idea. That would be true. Absolutely, cause then you open up a whole avenue of thinking that Paul McCartney isn't real. And so that means it's like if you want to get a gun, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, but that's dangerous. Then a guy ends up outside a comet pizza with a gun.

I mean, is he not, but he is Paul McCartney? At this point, is he not Paul McCartney? Because Paul, if, you know. Exactly. Now that is Paul McCartney. You're on your way to being a chaos midget. You're actually doing it for a second. You're actually, that's deep.

You know what I'm saying? I'm going with it. I fucking love, I love like, I mean, Berenstein Bear shit. I fucking love it. The Mandela effect. I fucking love it. I love the Lincoln Credit Union.

Oh, for sure. I like, it's so horrifying and real. I mean, now it seems real. Oh, it is real. Now it just seems like. Did you see who took Johnny? Yes, I can't watch it. It's very brutal, but it's real.

Do you believe that dude though? The fucking, the guy, you know, the guy, what's his name? I, I, the dude who came in and got, and got fucking deposed. And he was like, I, he was part of this sex ring. He just seems so full of shit. It's like McGecky. Yeah.

Merch. Yeah. I can't remember. It's been so many years. Dirt Rodriguez. I think that he. What was the final name? Dirty Rodriguez.

Dirty Rodriguez. That was the name that you chose. Is this a victim we're talking about? No, no, no, no. It was a victim turned aggressor. I actually completely, I completely believe in it. I think that there's a part of the US government that we've talked about a couple of times that uses,

uses that as a way, as a smokescreen in order to blackmail people in order to get them to do what they need them to do. Absolutely, man. That's the whole thing. I mean, Jared Fogle, when he was arrested, no one remembers he was texting a company to give him a boy, to give him a girl.

He texted a company. What company? I don't know. It was Hershey. Let's fucking say it. It was Hershey. It comes from the Nestle plan, absolutely. But no one was like, either like,

oh, he's gonna get a six inch or in prison, lol. Who was he texting and who was delivering him these children? That's right. And there's the pipeline from foster care and those sorts of things that go right into it. Dennis Hastert, again, the government's, oh, they're all disgusting.

Yeah, but that's also dismissing the fact that it's so fucking easy. Like he was screaming like 14, 16 years. That's like dismissing the fact that that's probably really fucking easy in some states. Like that's not a complicated thing that you need to fucking write a fucking text message to a company.

You can just go to the fucking Craigslist and find that. Have you, George, is this personal experience? I've seen it like this. Just believe her. Believe her. Yeah, listen, I had a rough childhood and I don't wanna fucking talk about it. We all were forced to work early.

I mean, it's a part of what gave me a back bound. Tell me to work hard. I think that it's obvious, it's an in plain sight. And the fact that there's certain things that have already happened that are very much so like that, you know what I mean? Like 9-11 was obviously, you know, in my head it was allowed to happen.

Your 9-11 episode, any time I tell people to listen to your podcasts all the time, I'm fucking go, like go to 9-11 and fucking Jambané. Those are the fucking best episodes. So funny, cause Jambané is the other one. We get the most pushback on. Really? By far the one we get the most pushback on.

Oh yeah. People don't wanna hear about fucking dead kids. They don't want to. Not fucking dead kids, but dead fucking kids. Wait, pushback on your theory about it? No, both the theory and just our temperament in general and handling the case. The fact that we are what has been called irreverent.

Irreverent? No, that's not the word. I don't know. I had to say your impression of Charles Ann got me through a very difficult time. And part of the reason I was laughing so hard is because I was thinking of the people who would be so infuriated.

It's just so dumb. And you going, I am telling you that I listened to a recording of his voice and this is how he talks and knowing it wouldn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But then he, He's a killer.

You just have to own up to the space. You just see like what we're doing. It made me so happy that like I'm part of that. I'm not just listening to this. They have talking about it. It's just like so fucking horrifying and awful. And I'm like, I'm laughing at this and that's the kind of person I am.

And I'm fucking so glad I'm me. But you're right. People were defending a like a multi torture murderer. A dungeon murderer. Where it's like, how dare you be racist against Charles Ng. And it's like, you do realize like he dug a pit and he took videos. Like he's the worst person that Henry's a character actor

who was performing in arts. And you realize that was a really good accent. It was a very consistent. I actually think in my head, and this is if it was appropriate, if this is a different time, if you could put some makeup on me, I would play Charles Ng in a film

and I would do it very well. And I'm not saying like just cartoony. I had, there was depths in there. I have emotions for the character of Charles Ng that I played in, cause it did really was just a man that did not understand where he fit in life and was angry about it.

Yes. But maybe it'll come back to that time though. Just wanted to demand friendship. Demand friendship. From other people. And tell them what he's going to bring to it. I mean, who doesn't want to know that up top? Yes.

If only it were that easy for us. I wish I was that confident that I knew what I was going to bring to it. I don't fucking know. Yeah, exactly. What do you, what did you guys bring to each other's friendship? I'm always on time.

I'm never on time. There it is. Hi. Hi. I don't know. Vulnerability. That's what it is. So you're the icy one?

Uh-huh. That's right. Yeah, I don't know. Do you guys, how do you guys, did your friendship, were you guys like really close now from traveling all the time and doing work together all the time?

It was like a thing where do you feel like you're still? I feel like we've moved apart. Yeah. Well, you have to have a long time. We just started traveling together, so. You learn a lot about a friend. When you travel, we have all learned, and it was good.

It's really cool. It has really helped our friendship once we learned how to travel with each other. Yeah. And we'll also, cause George is married, so we don't actually really, like it'll be like,

oh, we're going to go on this day. There's not, we don't have to do a lot of that stuff. I'm kind of doing that. I kind of do that on purpose though, because I just got off of like a fucking seven year career with my friend Ali Ward, where that's all we fucking did.

And it like kind of made us insane traveling together. It's really fucking hard. It is not hard. So I'm kind of trying to maintain this thing, like when Karen and I get into fucking Brooklyn, we're so happy to see each other, because like people are fucking dicks when they're traveling.

Like you're a different person, and I don't want to put that on her. Or just like forced time together. It's weird because like when we started, I had this job that took up all my time and made me very tired, and also made a lot of my stories that I recorded terrible.

But is that kind of thing where it's like we didn't really have the time to do extensive hangouts or any of that? And I think it's like, I don't know, it's that keep it fresh thing that I think is actually helping us. Because we don't, I try not to take her for granted or like take the situation for granted,

because it's like, oh, it's almost like, oh, I have to go do the thing that earns me money. And then I get to go do the thing I love. Yeah, and then we do have hangouts. They're fucking awesome too. So that's really nice. It's about rolling with everybody's lives and not being dramatic.

That's what I've found. In this business, just roll with everything. And because it's just gonna be insane. There's so many different variables happening. But we've both been in duos a couple of times. So we kind of know the dynamic and how it's really fucking pitfalls. Yeah, so I think we're in a good place

to like work well together. Well, Marcus and I always enjoy traveling together. I get airplane drunk, which is drunk, like I'm on the ground, but I'm in the air. It's the party, Ro. It's a problem. Yeah, I thought you were gonna say it's a problem. The last time we were on a plane ride

or one of these plane trips, that thing was about to go down. And Marcus was so scared. And I was like, we're going down. And I thought it was a really fun moment for us. It was. You were scared you were? Yeah.

I was like, the worst thing that could happen is we'd die and you're like, I know Ben. And I'm like, yeah, bro, take it down. Sid there telling us like, for the first time in my fucking life, everything's working out, everything's good. God damn it, you want us to die now. Take it down.

Over the Atlantic Ocean. I'm on a separate plane, like, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. I never. And she TV. I never get into a situation where I haven't already thought about the way I'm going to die in it. Yeah, so like.

Oh, of course. It's just there, always there. I just know that if I die early, it's great career wise. Famous as fuck from there on out. That's the problem. It's that I know that. So I'm jealous of my ghost.

But you know. A thing to think about is if the plane goes down, are you the most famous person on it? Because if not, nobody gives a shit about it. Well, I will be as soon as I slit everyone's fucking throat because we're going down. So then the guy who killed David Bowie on the plane or whatever, John Favery.

If he's on my plane, if I kill him before it lands, I'm a winner. They're being created, crashing, plane slasher. Oh, that is the best. Instead of holding hands and everyone crying, and like, oh, I love you or whatever, just being like. And then the plane evens out, and you're like, oh, shit. Oh, sorry, I killed you.

I'm so sorry. Sorry. My final. Hashtag my final wish. But that is one of the interesting things, and we'll wrap it up here. But one of the cool things about covering all this true crime, it does make you less afraid of death.

I really believe it. I'm still just as afraid of death. My anxiety, like, before we did this, and I would stay up all night looking at crime scene photos and reading about fucking death and watching these shows anyways, and then I'd have to take a break because I got so depressed and fucked up and scared. But now it's my job, and so it's not as bad.

It's like, I have to be reading about all these horrible things. So that's how I solved it. Getting paid to get scared is pretty much a dream come true. That's what I wanted, except does Marcus gets really, really sad when it comes down to all the childs being bad? Yeah, that fucks me up real bad. I get, yeah, I had, I did, yeah.

I did have a therapy session recently where I was like, oh, this is, she's like, well, what are your triggers? And I'm like, oh, reading about fucking getting killed all the time. I need a break. So what do you do for your living? You just mean, like, I do a thing about people getting murdered all the time.

I was like, ah, so you're a mess? Like, thank you. That explains everything. Well, for me, the really hard ones, like, for example, the last episode was Children of God, or we're still in the middle of the Children of God episode, but the last one was about all of the incest, pedophilia, molestation, all of that type of stuff.

So when I'm researching the episode, like, I'm just going forward. Like, next step, next step, next step, just gotta get to the episode. We record the episode, and then I edit, and then I edit it. Yeah, I edit the episode, I press release, and then it's just, like, just like, full out.

Like, it all sort of comes in, and it all just overtakes me. And sometimes it'll be like a day or two where I have to step back and, you know, pretty much just go be alone. So when you really know what the world is like and what really happens, and you can't pretend it's not, and every person you see on the street

and every story you hear, you're fucking thinking of it from that perspective, it does get you, if you're already prone to depression, which I think we probably all are, it fucking gets you deep. Yeah, oh, did you see that I'm sure you did the documentary about the survivors of the... Yeah, I mean, I was...

Survivors of what? Children of God. Children of God, no, no. They're all second-generation, they're all, like, second-generation kids that were born into the cult. A lot of drug addicts, a lot of suicide, and I watched that, and then I was like,

oh, I'm never gonna watch anything like that again. Like, that's why I can't watch Who Took Johnny, because I don't wanna watch a mother who either, whether she's crazy or she's right, she lost her son. So it's just like, that part is so hard that why even, why go there when it's hard enough? Well, if you wanna watch a really, like,

light-hearted documentary, Dear Zachary. Oh! So, wait a minute. I was like, if I am down, if I'm feeling down, I toss it on. I'm just like, oh, my God. And then he's a dead child with a can of Canadians. Don't ruin the ending.

Oh, I'm sorry. No spoilers, no spoilers. The way they tried to, like, put a happy spin at the end, you're just like, no way, dude. No way. We tried, the last one, we tried to flip it out at the very end, and be like, so, sorry. That's why at the end of our episodes,

we've started being like, so what's the best thing that happened to you this week? Because it's such a bummer to be like, and then they all got molested and died. Thanks for listening, everyone. It's just, you can't do that. Yeah, I guess with us, it ended with, and now you're gonna, next episode,

you're gonna hear how one of those kids who got molested became Batman. And then, live dates, come up. We're coming to Seattle. Yeah, a little self-promotion at the end of all that victimization. I'll plug the Twitter, plug the Instagram. That's it.

All right, well, thank you guys so much for being here. Thank you for having us. You guys, this looks so fun. We love you. We really do. You guys are great. This is so cool. Thank you.

This is awesome. Thank you for fucking inspiring us. So many people, thank you guys so much for talking about us on your show. So many people have found us through you, and hopefully vice versa. So it's been wonderful talking with you guys. Thank you for having us.

So my favorite murder, check it out. I said it right. And I do think I said it right in the first place. No, you did. No, you did not. We'll say it's tough to say. I was just gonna say Magus Deletion. Hey!

Yeah! And a hell key. Hail Satan to you. Hail Satan to you. Thank you. Goodbye. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to CaveComedyRadio.com.