Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 122: Dahmer Part I: Infinity Land

Episode Date: February 17, 2015

On this, the first in a series of three episodes on one of our favorite Heavy Hitters, Jeffrey Dahmer, we cover the man's life from his bizarre and lonely childhood through high school up until his arrival in the great city of Milwaukee.

There's no place to escape to. This is the last time on the left That's when the cannibalism started You're just yelling at an old gal, huh? Because I don't need anybody to give me rules. I'm my own boss. All right. I write my own Constitution I don't need just some lady come around and tell him it's being some kind of Otto von Bismarck Oh the elevator Otto von Bismarck? I've heard that name before. He was the Kaiser. He was murdered by the Serbian black hand group that started the

That was the shot heard around the world that started World War one. That was Franz Ferdinand. Franz Ferdinand the band Would take me out. That's all. Is that what I mean? And then well Otto von Bismarck was No, that was Kaiser Wilhelm Kaiser Wilhelm. Yeah, but Otto von Bismarck was a pilot It's not in the outline Marcus You didn't write it down in the outline. I forgot that in our Dahmer outline. Who's Otto von Bismarck? I need I just need you to be throwing random facts into these outlines so that I don't have to be curious

Who invented meatloaf rim was the first shoes worn When you want to guess the first shoes were worn 1974 All right All right, should we start the show? Yeah, we've been recording. Yeah. Oh, this has been shooting down to the airway. Oh, yeah The completely unrelated subject matter. Yeah, we always like to start with that. That's perfect. All right. Welcome to the show everyone That's Marcus Parks. I'm Ben kissle fellow to my left is who is he today man with no rules Henry Zabrowski Oh, I don't need a boss. I don't need I don't need a governor

I don't need some old lady. Tell me if I'm being too loud in the elevator. Yeah I don't need an old lady to tell me right. Oh, please sir get out of my way You're hogging up all the room in front of the meat aisle at the grocery store. I'll tell you what I'm fucking done old lady Yeah, you know what you know what even I don't show my generosity. You tell me what meat you want I'll fucking get it for you, but guess what? You know, you just keep your fucking clam hole fucking all your flip-flaping All right, I'm gonna come over there and I'm gonna drop that Lex Luger skill fucking elbow on your ass. So she's 80 years old Maybe she's got some liver marks and she's uh, I don't need a walker. Yeah, but yeah Well, it sounds like you do no man sounds like without a boss. You just yell at a bunch of old ladies

I mean a long a long line of Freedom fighters like Thomas Payne and Oliver Cromwell Thomas Payne The Zabrowski pain. Yeah, you're of the Zabrowski Payne family. Yes. I yes, I've heard that big freedom fighters Benedict Arnold Hmm. Yeah, Thomas Hardy the actor. Ah Love Tom Hardy the actor. Yes bisexual. I did not know that Bisexual well that today's shot. We're back to a big hitter. We got a big hit. Yeah That's right It's an illegal Mexican that was an illegal Mexican accent that's very interesting. I wasn't sure which one it was

Today's big hitter Jeffrey Dahmer Jeffrey Jeffrey Dahmer. Thank you. I'm finally getting to mr. Dahmer Absolutely, it's about goddamn time the most sympathetic serial killer that ever existed when I read about it Marcus was even just saying how much he related to him But that's just because he's lonely on the inside very lonely and Dahmer is very lonely on the inside Yeah, he was lonely on the outside. Well, he had a mustache on the outside That always means you're lonely on the inside Jeffrey Dahmer is he could have been any kid in your high school I remember this kid. He was kind of a lost weird loser We were like we were a group of friends that like, you know, like, you know

We did the drama department in high school And so we had a lot of friends and we we had like a big lunch table And we always had these guys that would show up that were kind of off that would do something funny And then leave where we're gonna find out about Jeffrey Dahmer that he was did the same exact thing class clown Kind of a class clown kind of a weird class celebrity, but then sometimes those guys go off to kill 17 male prostitutes and sometimes they go off to be Administrators of an IT company sure sometimes they go off to war and they kill 37 and they get on for it But this song we were gonna play the song beautiful loser by Bob Seeger

Because I find it a romantic song. I mean a little probably a little more romantic than Jeffrey Dahmer deserves No romance for Dahmer give Dahmer some romance. I will get into Jeffrey Dahmer's romantic Capability she was very romantic in his own sort of weird way. I mean He's definitely the most romantic person ever with a skull that has like some skin fragments fallen He was sucking on it and jerking off while looking at it. Yeah, the other problem is with him It's but he never did he didn't wrote poems. I mean we didn't know what we make front of BTK But he wrote beautiful poems no, but Jeffrey spoke beautiful words into the ears of the dead So we'll never hear of them and I think there's something you know, I think was well being like, oh, you're dick on gig

Oh God. Oh, come on. I keep yanking and pulling I keep yanking and pulling. That's your Dahmer accent No, I don't know why I don't you know my dick. Oh, yeah, you're I keep on yanking on your your chain there But you can't see I ain't get no tree out of it. It's just a shrub. Yeah, no no no come no come So where do we let's go back in the way way back machine and go to the terrible day when Jeffrey Dahmer was the one of the Better days in American history. He was but again, you know 17 kills one of the most infamous serial killers of all time This is a bigger hitter than than a magical but this is probably the number one serial killer of all time I would say he's definitely the most well-known everyone knows Jeffrey Dahmer I remember when I was a kid you we used to play Jeffrey Dahmer on the playground and what was that like Marcus?

Marcus was the only one playing Everyone else called it king of the hill or run away from the weird boy I Relate to this man. So what did you do and when you played Jeffrey Dahmer's just like when we used to play Freddy Krueger? Or when we used to play you just played this one game Yeah, what was the Freddy Krueger game Freddy Krueger's like one kid would be Freddy Krueger another kid would be Jason Voorhees another kid would be Michael Myers Oh hell, yeah, and you go around and kill all the rest of the kids that weren't playing the game This is before Columbine you can't play Jeffrey Dahmer or Freddy Krueger anymore

But there's a way to do that that you could get because healthily so you sort of got it not healthy healthily out of your system Yeah, it totally got I've never killed anybody still in his system It is his sister. No, but are the mad ones not the ones who think it's not in everybody's system They're urged to kill is in every man. That's true for me are the mad ones burning bright All right, let's go to let's go to my home state of Wisconsin here Oh, no, it all starts in Ohio my friend. Oh, he was born in Ohio. He was born in West Alice No, he was born and grew up in a bath Ohio Ohio the land of beautiful women and ugly men That is very true, but kind of like not he was born May 21st 1960 to

Lionel Dahmer Lionel very strange Emotionless chemist. Yeah a very strange emotionless chemist. Yes, and he was described as a hard worker and achiever But had very little time to actually pay attention to his son You never see hard worker achiever and awesome dad Same sentence number one dad was talking with a friend of what one of the guys who builds puppets for pretty face but they were all they they were hanging out with Jim Henson's daughter and they were talking about with Jim Henson's daughter about the Basically, you know how great her dad was and stuff and they were drinking late at night and basically she turned to them and said You try having Jim Henson as a father. I didn't see him from ages of seven until he died

I would have loved that My dad one day my dad was a over-the-night truck driver, so he would go go home I leave it five and you're not a serial killer not one yet I'm too big to be a serial killer, which is very sad But then one day he's like I'm switching to the day shift So I'm gonna see you a whole bunch more Ben and then I was scared and my whole life was ruined that year because my dad was around Jesus Christ, so I'd have loved to be Jim Henson's son rich

wealthy Ben Kissel Henson Well, they talked about it Jeffrey talked about his father's a highly controlling a strong character that he said and his mother was also very controlling very strong very neurotic She was on up to 20 different medications for very I think she was a hypochondriac She was absolutely a hypochondriac She was the same thing as my grandmother where she would just go to her bed and just lie there for weeks at a time Yeah, yes, I had I had family I had friends growing up or kid like I remember mom his mom

His name is mom had like this Jeffrey Dahmer just brings up all these stories for my childhood Yeah, because he just reminds me of these people I think Jeffrey Dahmer anyone who's weird who grew up kind of weird and who grew up a little bit of an outsider Anyone can relate to Jeffrey Dahmer again. Let's not let's not say he was awesome No, he was not he was a horrible fucking person killed 17 people. Yes Well, we'll talk about how that was almost unavoidable and it gets to a point where it's just like you guess You could have put him in a concrete square from the age of five on which he where he belonged, but that's miserable That's not how you know, yeah, they didn't know he was gonna he could have been a very anyway. Let's go

Yeah, well, so she but his mother was like on a cocktail 20 different fucking drugs and would kind of put her get herself in a fit But I mean to her credit. She was correct in being a little bit paranoid that her son was playing with too many bones But she didn't even know they didn't care about the bone problem. Yeah, she didn't pay any attention to him whatsoever She she was the type of woman that would get just make a fuss over just like the tiniest little things Yeah, get completely out of control real mama just just so she could have that pleasure of reconciliation Well, especially because her family her marriage with with Lionel will spawn apart while they were going So she would take any sort of control she could get yeah, absolutely And here's the first story of Jeffrey Dahmer at about four years old

Like the first kind of that the first inkling that they thought something was off when Jeffrey was four his dad was sweeping the remains of some small animals that have been killed by some birds from underneath the house and Jeffrey just He was compelled by this fucking pile of bones The sound of them can I play with the bones? Yeah, I get it's a fucking sentence that also came out of Marcus's mouth at some point. He was a child This is what Lionel wrote in his book a father's story He said Lionel wrote a book. Yes Lionel wrote a book. Okay in 94

I think 90s heavily featured in the stone Phillips interview, which we'll talk about which is probably the best serial killer interview of all time It's great. He said that Jeffrey appeared to be oddly thrilled by the sound they made his small hands dug deep into the pile of bones I can no longer view it simply as a childish episode of passing fascination This yeah, of course you fucking pain Because all the fucking dick soup he was making This same sense of something dark and shadowy of a malicious force growing in my son now colors almost every memory See, I mean, I don't know he was just playing with bones And kids like to play with things, you know, yeah

That's fun to play with imagine, you know the sound of playing with the bones You know Marcus when you stick your hands in a pile a bunch of bones and you drip them up and down like it's a bunch of Parmesan cheese. Oh, you mean yesterday. Yes, you know, so you just get you got a raccoon dick bone sitting on the on the thing We're there but but touch it against the microphone. It's not pretty like it's normal though That is strange. Yeah, I never liked it. So let's I mean Jeffrey Dahmer like Like most other serial killers had a history of Injuries as a child he required Cass on his legs for the first form or for four months when he was a kid He had to wear lifts on his shoes until he was six. Oh

But then of course later on in his life. He meant Janae That's a forest gun preference Janae I Would have loved to have seen Forrest Gump if it was about a series. Oh, so much I made a smiley-face smiley-face t-shirt. Oh, that's pretty cool I went to Vietnam, but when I went there, I killed some prostitutes. That's a much better story We're friends now. I went to a place called me lie Where I found out who I really was

I am the blackness the darkness So Jeffrey he was treated for an ear infection. He got pneumonia And he started developing a mild hernia which at the age of six They eventually had to do an operation on him to fix this right and before that he was a normal kid very happy I mean he was playing with bones and he was for yeah But I mean that there's some sort of like there's these small seeds, but you know a lot of kids I played with bones, but I haven't killed anyone I know it's not about me, but I'm just saying that you can't lock someone up for playing with you can't

They did not but after the hernia operation he came out of it completely changed his dad said he seems like it's like a trucker's problem Yeah, yeah, he said his father said he seemed smaller more vulnerable He grew more inwards sitting quietly for long periods hardly stirring his face oddly motionless because the trauma that he Suffered during that is that of course something could have happened in his head, you know back in 1966 Shit wasn't all that great as far as medical advancements go It wasn't that bad, but I think we got the hernia surgery down fairly well steaks could have been made You know Obsessed he thought that for a while that his generals have been cut off. Yeah, he was upset

He thought that all of his genitals were gone He just didn't know to me that shows the first sign of he's not in touch with reality Yeah, we took a bit when I wake up in the morning. I know for a fact. I have a penis. Do you though? But that's how you know I go right up I go I go into because what I love to do is I play this game called sprinkler where I stick my Pinky up inside my my penis hole and I pee out the sides of it See even though it's your pinky which is their smallest digit It's still a very large digit to put into a small hole quarter-sized. Oh, yeah, interesting

You have to know you have a penis That's about a five-alum Zabrowski piss-fire Browskies to piss that one out But no, I feel like that shows his at first problem with reality. Yeah, and so in 1966 as well his mother got pregnant She stayed in bed for six months. Yeah typical excuse Does that mean you have to eat all the roast beef do I have to deliver you everything in the morning I just see more like orange juice. Kissle family home transcripts. Oh, yeah roast beef every dinner, huh?

Every meal hum mother because you're pregnant Some reason they decided to let Jeffrey name the new baby Nice and they know and he named him David David David Dahmer is a great name David Dahmer's the first the first day was ham steak. Yeah, you know And the second one was I all want to come chef boy of these favorite. That's a weird. That's a long name It's really weird The funny thing about David Dahmer is that in our entire story. He shows up. I think one more time and David For all intents and purposes has vanished off the face. Yeah, where's David?

He changed his name. He doesn't want to be related. They're known as Jeffrey Dahmer's brother I think all the autographs you could sign all that with sweet sweet bush. You can get Yeah from all the Dahmer fans. You'd want the runoff. I don't even want to meet Chris Farley's brother and Chris Farley is my idol Oh, hello lesser Farley, great to see you. You remind me of how awesome your brother where I hope I wish that it was you in the Casket instead of him. I will see you to say goodbye But the problem with David Dahmer coming along is Jeffrey was already being neglected by his parents But when David was born, he was essentially forgotten completely cool abandoned by his parents I guess he wasn't a serial killer. David's father because David was taken care of. Yeah, Jeffrey was yeah

Yeah, David was actually taken care of David was the one that they loved Which we see he was the better kid. Yeah, which was the one that doesn't love the bones Well, we saw this with Gary Ridgway as well. Yeah, they he was the oldest But it was his two younger brothers that got all the love and attention Because of course as we know Henry as you know All this child is the first draft. Yes, absolutely. All the mistakes are made on the first draft Yeah, you have to and like and you learn how to do it better with this You get you have to give more love to the other kids the older ones. It just better be real strong

If it ain't strong, it's gonna be a serial killer. Mm-hmm, or a senator Senator is a very good thing. No, it's not very good. You you know what you have to do in order to be one Yeah, Ben kissle So with this this does not seem that bad to me It's not it's not like life at this point. Just run around you're in Ohio You have nothing but free time. That's what they said. He was in this back neighborhood So the the way that just just sort of like weirdly Geographically he was isolated from everybody else in the town like basically he was put his house in this back on the top of this hill

That was too dangerous to ride a bike or skate down and so it just did from the very beginning He was set off from everybody else at the bottom of the hill was this giant like I did like Brady bunch town We're like full of kids right and he was you know immediately ostracized. He's living like Edward scissor hands. Yeah, I say yeah Yeah, and he this is when when he finally moved they moved to Bath, Ohio to this house and when he was six years old and of course the only thing he had to do was wander the back woods and This is when he started collecting roadkill. He started collecting dead animals. He started collecting Public service public service. It is not a bad thing to do and it's also said this is a ledge There is there's some records that allege that he was sexually assaulted at this time

But both Jeffrey and Lionel maintained that this was not true. Why do why does the Lionel? Why did what do they think he was sexually molested? There's some probation records back in the day that said that you know They because when Jeffrey was caught every reporter was searching Every every single mention of Jeffrey Dahmer throughout And from you know that moment back until 1960 they combed through this and they found a probation record this guy that said that He was on probation for the assault of one Jeffrey Dahmer six years old interesting But both Lionel and Jeffrey say that never happened Is he can already on the path so it's like it's not like it because a lot of times is that these the sexual assaults of the

Children's what it spurs the I don't know if he was on the path yet I still think he's just being a kid at this point in the creepiest house in Bath. Oh, you want to talk about creepy. I've been here's that he played a little game. It was a solitary game It was only does it call Jeffrey Dahmer? Because I know somebody who played that game called Jeffrey the Jeffrey Dahmer game No, it was called infinity land and it was extremely complicated But the concept vaguely sinister what he did is that there were sticks all around that represented men and the game involved The men disappearing one by one into a vortex normal. That's great

I could see his father's his father's perspective though when he sees all of this if he ever does see it It's that he's just a creative kid. Yeah, these are smart games. No, it's like Holden tells the story over and over again I don't know anything else about his child because it seems like it's a big gray weird memory Memoryless like landscape hold a mcnealy. Yeah, I know I've heard a lot of stories about holden But holden talks about you know He was dressed up as a vampire and jump at cars and they thought that he was just being creative and they didn't know that he was a monster Yeah, you have a hernia surgery as well No, no, no, no, he was born without one

But the but he played this game He had a shed like his his father had old tool shed that he let him use and there was a story of Basically a bunch of kids fighting him out in the woods with a dead cat. Yeah, that comes way later But this is where it started also the games at him like, you know, they would find him just beaten trees with a giant log I used to be like an animal. That's fun. No, I used to yeah We all used to do so. I remember I keep thinking of the I used to videotape myself like doing like broom tricks Like doing the fucking Jedi broom tricks like a fat Fred Astaire. Yeah, of course Everybody did it who had a video camera. Everyone did weird shit with a video camera. Thank God all those home movies got lost to the move

We don't have any childhood memories. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure your father didn't just like break them with a hammer and tell you Oh, we lost them. He wasn't ashamed of his son or anything. Not the NYPD officer that he was He was so proud of his little me just doing monologues from the backyard. Just going like father. Why? But at this point he hasn't actually killed any animals Only a collector. Yeah, so Ben you mentioned earlier that his father at this point Just thought that he was kind of creative kid and you're right when he was 10 They were they had finished with a nice little chicken dinner and he asked his dad is like so what would happen if If we took those chicken bones and

Dropped them in bleach, but you see he's a chemist. Yeah Yeah, he's so he's immediately like oh, so my boys interested in the sciences. They're good. Ah, yes Like a Leonardo da Vinci Well, yeah, in fact, he bought him a chemistry set right after that But then of course with the chemistry set the only thing Jeffrey did with it was Apply that to insects. Yeah, it started with insects like with live insects. That's what everything started of course But I tried destroyed gigantic masses of insects. Yeah, of course everyone did what's Henry doing out there with that straw by the ant hill Like literally sucking up all the ants. It was literally me spraying this there was we had this ant infested tree

It was just be spraying it with a hose going like It's good Gasoline over ant hills and then light it on and the thing but you got to go down you got to go down into the ground Yeah, I learned we used to have it We had a wasp nest underneath our front steps for one summer and I had a great time genocide in all those motherfucking wasps It's like our son seemed to have an uncontrollable need for power. Hmm. Maybe it'll make him comedians Yes Well, he did have friends when he was a kid. I mean when he was growing up

He did have a few friends. In fact, him and his friend had a game that they played called Ghost in the Graveyard Adam's family. Yeah, that is it's a fun little game, but it sounds fun. I do feel like there's a storm cloud over his house at all times Yes, but also kids don't really our kids aren't really friends when they're below the age of 10 It's just whoever's in your closest proximity. Yeah, exactly but one of the kids said that they were out fishing one day and Jeffrey after he caught a fish he cut the fish open and then just started cutting in a tiny little pieces because he was absolutely fascinated with anything going on on the inside of An animal. So this is where I do I couldn't I can't touch the fish

My friends always had to unhook the fish whenever I ever catch one. I don't like fish You wasn't bad out of the fishing trips then I hated the fish. I hated the whole thing Disgusted I couldn't put the worm on none of that. Well, this is and this is also at the time You know, we're starting to get closer to high school and that's when his Fascination with animals in roadkill really starts to get out of control. The age of 14 is when the whole thing flipped Yeah, 14 is when it flipped. So let's hear Dahmer himself during the stone Phillips interview talking about his fascination with animals in ninth grade In biology class we had the usual

Dissection of fetal pigs. I took the remains of that home and kept the Skeleton of it and I just started branching out dogs cats I Suppose it could have turned into a normal hobby like taxidermy, but it didn't get off into into this why I don't know all I know is that I Wanted to see what the insides of these animals looked like was there some pleasure in in the cutting open of the animal

Yes, there was No, no sexual pleasure, but just a it's hard to describe Sense of power sense of control. I suppose that's a good way of putting it. Yeah Yeah, I feel like Jeffrey Dahmer taxidermy would have been amazing Oh, absolutely bringing a corpse to the tall man from phantasm Oh, that's a nice one. How happy and fulfilled you know, yeah, these people bring it in corpses like oh Maria Good to see you again. Haha. Oh, this is a fantastic deal Leave me alone with it. Leave me alone with it

Our taxidermis is kind of creepy with the deer there every time we are Martha. I hate to say it, but all taxidermis are Creepy That's how they're supposed to be if they're not that way. They're not doing their job All right, let's go to the brat festival out with our son bridge I intend to get too drunk to drive But I drive anyway So now we arrive at high school

But then Lionel's father Lionel goes on to say after he talks about this and he literally because it's like his father's just standing there stone-faced during that a whole Fucking interview two hours for two hours. Yeah, but he's like he's just like, you know He says the same thing is like I would understand if you wanted to see the guts the one time But it's all the other Yeah, so you continue with the guts So right now we're in high school. What's fascinating about Jeffrey Dahmer? What's actually great about it is that we have more than any other serial killer in history

Jeffrey Dahmer is the one that we have the most insight into because we're he's the one that has the most witnesses The most people the people most willing to talk about what kind of person was mostly because he was such an approachable guy Yeah, he had friends. Well, he was boozing the entire time. He stood 14. Well during around this time They were he started to fall in love with the insides of animals. By the way, did you ask your teacher to take home the pig? No, you steal the pig Yeah, yeah, you take it out of the trash mind if I take this home with me. Uh, I don't yeah I suppose you just take it out of the garbage can there. But yeah, but he was boozing up at this point. Oh my god He started at 14, but like they said that he used to he wore this army fatigue jacket. He was a cool kid

Yeah, I mean, well, I mean I mean a guy to buy midwestern standard army fatigue jacket. You got a little flask of gin. You're 14 You're kind of a cool kid. Yeah, but he didn't have a little flask of gin. He was power housing bottles Yes, he was yeah, he had a an army fatigue jacket where he kept a little bottle of scotch He also kept a bottle in his locker on one occasion a classmate asked him's like I mean, he was drinking gin at this moment. He was drinking gin and they asked him, you know, what what is that? And he just said it's my medicine. Yeah, I love that this guy it's almost like benjamin botten He just he's like a 70 year old

It's my my medicine. No, can we get back to learning the abc's I feel like I've also heard you say the same thing while you're like blackout drunk my medicine Yeah One of his classmates she recalled a moment when they were uh soft moors in high school It was 8 a.m. And jeffrey had a styrofoam cup full of scotch and she said I sort of smelled his cup and I thought That's interesting and then he just sat there in class and drank scotch Somebody could have taken that 16 year old kid and asked him. Why are you drinking scotch? He spoke holy he spoke. He's one phone call away from ordering a large anchovy pizza

He's a cool kid. He just could have made one step towards being awesome, but he didn't and instead he you know He was you know fantasizing about the jogger that was running past this house every day. Yeah, right Yeah, so he was acting an absolute he was a class clown, but what he was he was drunk He was a class gimmicky celebrity Yeah, he was the guy that everybody loved to make fun of they would put him in the back of yearbook photos And then they everyone get all upset like the the the guy who wrote my friend jeffrey But derp derp derp buck derp Derp brad derf man derp

I think it's just goes as derp. Yeah, but he go he's a he's a cartoonist He wrote like basically But he started drawing cartoons in high school and basically created this character of jeffrey dommer and for their high school They became their like unofficial mascot. Yeah, which I mean we had kids like that Well now was jeffrey one of those kids who would be like here's a worm four dollars on the playground Stuck it down and stuff like that. Was he doing things like that not really He was more just like they would get him to do really weird things because he had as they say in the book His mother had this interior decorator that used to come over and over again to the house and the interior decorator had cerebral palsy

And so he used to do this impression of the the going like Would you like to buy some dweebs He's like And they used to they even had a name for it. They called it doing a dommer. Yeah, they described his Like his sense of humor as bizarre Weird and oftentimes cruel maybe a little bit morbid, huh kind of a morbid guy And I have a list of some domarisms from the book. Yeah, so he wasn't a nice celebrity there

No, he was just like a this is how he found any sort of acceptance. He would say stuff like they have a list of just stuff He'd say so it'd be like Hello, is jack there? What you know it Give me fwappy stickpile duck-a-wait-uh The eminent dr. E

You would say all this weird shit, but I had friends and they would do stuff like this as has anyone seen bruce Ha, there's bruce This has been known to have been said to be true. Oh, yeah, this has been known to have been said to be true See this stuff didn't fly in texas because I was kind of like this in junior high I was this kid in junior high Right, just like just super weird that kids would fucking like just asked me to do like weird shit And I'd fucking do it just because I love the I love the attention And I was trying to find some sort of you know niche because everyone hated me

But there was a there's a fine line between having that and being I mean like because I was class clown You know, I mean like of course that's what I got pulled back and forth through the chris farley impression Right, but that made that I learned that that could get you friends and and girlfriends It can also get you out of a subway ride when you're surrounded by a group of african-american youths Of course, that's a good story of henry zebrowski having to do chris farley impression Or he didn't get the shit beat out of me by a bunch of jack 17 year olds But of course he was 27 at the time Of course, uh, so jeffrey dombergat 14

This is also when he realized that he was gay, right? Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course that as most people do And but the thing is about is that you know back to the fetal pigs when he started to jerk off He would think of the fetal pigs. He would think of the mutilated animal remains. Right, right So because that was more acceptable to him than being gay Yeah, so when he started when his sexual awakening started coming when he did realize that he was gay when he would think about sex It became fused like these violent images became fused together in a way that was just completely Intractable later on in life. We talk about this all the time every one of these that's pretty much the

The the moment it's too late for these serial killers is the moment it gets stuck into their adolescent sexual drive Once the violence becomes a key to their because to him it wasn't violence as much. It was the end result Yeah, which was we hear he says it's over over again. It's like it's about control. It was about having a thing that can't say no Yeah, and a fetal pig cannot say no. No. No, it just goes It was alive. That's it. So at this point he's being validated for all the wrong reasons, right? He's just acting like a total freak. He's getting boozed up all the time and he's jacking off to uh, fetal pigs Yeah, absolutely And you know and he also had his prom date. I mean how many times do you get a testimony from a serial killer's prom?

It's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. I can't even got a prom date. Now you get a prom date Well, he got a prom date with Bridget Geiger. Bridget Geiger sounds beautiful. Why did I get a bra? I was class clown. I was the rowdiest and the loudest But I got I got those two It's something you were um, an uncontrollable drunk. No. No. No. No, that's 360 pounds. That was terrifying Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. No I can't dammer got a whatever. I'm over prom. The fact that I had to go alone I had a good goddamn time that night. Well, dammer didn't give a shit about prom because in the middle of prom

He just left to go get a hamburger. Yeah, he left his date there He went and got a hamburger came back to pick her up and there was just fast food wrappers because I guess he'd ate two Or three hamburgers. This guy is so cool Fuck it, babe. I'm going to get a burger. This is the Fonz. It's the Fonz he moves and now he's Jughead Oh, he's the best boost up Everyone loves the way you're looking at it's the other angle that you're looking at It's from the other angle when you look at, you know, how it was all just a cover He was wearing a vague human mask to cover a vat of deep dark secrets

Yeah, well, some people say that it was very possible that jeffrey was autistic. Oh, sure. Yeah, that he was autistic I mean the two diagnoses that I kept seeing over and over again It was autism and borderline personality disorder, which borderline very much makes sense It's a a definite feeling of like impropriety. It's not being able to read people's emotions You know what I've also heard is a really a really accurate description. I was reading about it's a good disease called being wackety schmackety Oh, wackety schmackety. He may have had that disease as well and if you want to talk about impropriety and a A desire to connect with others but having no idea how to do it

All you have to look at is his first obsession the jogger. Yes. Now the jogger is creepy as shit What he used to do is he would sit on the side of the road and he would watch this jogger that ran by his house every day And he would just sit there tight tight balls just flipping up and down inside his tiny red shorts Oh, yeah broad chest thick mustache early 70s mid 70s of this time. This is by the late mid to late 70s Yes, yeah, he's got those high shorts Thick coarse blonde hair up his tight thighs And so Jeffrey he's sitting there every day and he's just watching this guy from the bushes just sweating And then one day he decides and so he's starting to get these violent fantasies and they're starting to get stronger and stronger

He said too. It's like the way it started was like it wasn't just it wasn't killing them It was the it was the having them you would just see him dead in his bed And he'd just like jerk off just thinking about him being dead in the bed. Yeah, and so one day he decides he's going through with it And he brings a baseball bat to his little hidey hole But that fucking jogger so goddamn lucky I don't know if he was hungover or what but that day he did not jog past the first day in months that he did not jog past And so he lived I mean I think the jogger still would have been fine because Dahmer was probably you know Half drunk on his own and then he's just chasing after him with a bat and then the joggers

It's like I'm so much in better shape than because you're just a drunkard The big thing about him though is that his father got him obsessed with weightlifting at a very young age His father was saying to him. Hey, you should you should do something physical So Jeffrey Dahmer had been been lifting weight since he was 13. He was like six foot four He was fucking huge. Yeah, Jeffrey. That was there was like they never understood why he because he used to call him Dumber they used to beat him up and call him dumber of course and like all of his friends in high school would say the same thing I'm just being like we were all just afraid for the day that he'd snap because he was built like a fucking tool shed He was huge

Yeah, his friends in high school said that he was either gonna snap or Most of them actually just ended they just assumed that one day they would hear Dahmer killed himself Like that was the most likely scenario that everyone like they just Everyone assumed that you know a couple years down the road that Dahmer would just end up dead from a gunshot How does that conversation group like honey? I think Jeffrey's a little bit strange You know he seems to have like violent tendencies and loves bones. What should we do? What was that honey? I'm sorry I was looking at my newspaper Let's get him stronger

Let's make him stronger because he seems let's get him more dangerous. Yeah This is the guy that you just know only yogurt. I signed him up for a katana blade class At the local japanese auditorium school It sounded real nice and dangerous, huh? And you know chorus Jeffrey Dahmer. He uh graduates high school very high IQ very low grades Did he have a high IQ? He did. Yeah, he did have a very high IQ Uh, but I'm sure he wasn't doing homework. He wasn't trying very hard. No, he was drunk He was beating down his fucking creeping in fantasies of the dead

Every single night if homosexuality at this time was more, uh, accepted He wouldn't have had to go to the pig thoughts It's what he could have just thought about a male rump, but didn't well later on when he went I mean when we're gonna see when we get to it is that when he was finally like out and about like he had such a Hard time meeting and talking to people Yeah, he that's what really would drove him to do it Was it wasn't that he was afraid to be gay because he started going to gay bars later on I know where he went mad planet where I used to go all the time in uh, college

What was the other one that was club 219 which is like 219, yeah Jesus We get into the Milwaukee stuff. I had a friend who actually got to meet him It was a Jeff Michael Jackson impersonator and he shook Jeffrey Dahmer's hands and Jeffrey said, I loved your performance so much Can you do you want to go back to my place? Yeah My friends was my friend's friend. He said absolutely not No, thank you so much for the thank you for being a fan, but that's what I'll see you

Yeah, he used to just go to this gay bar and just yeah Yeah, I love the way you moved you want to go back to my place and that was it That's all that's literally the only sentence as he ever said cool And then he would get ever and then he would just get him shit-faced drunk. Yeah, which is Wisconsin courtship Yeah, you would have been born if it wasn't being shit. I would have gone home with him So it said after he graduates high school three weeks after he graduates high school his parents have Going through a horrible divorce an absolutely terrible divorce. Uh, he's been essentially abandoned He's living he's been living at home alone for three months

And he's out of high school three weeks And that's when the first murder occurs. Do we want to hear? Yeah, so we'll hear from Jeffrey Dahmer how his fantasy is built to a reality. Here we go from 15 on I I had this reoccurring fantasy of of meeting a hitchhiker on the road and of taking him hostage and

And doing what I wanted About three years later. I was 18 years old Driving home I saw this hitchhiker about a mile from my house Thought to myself should I stop and pick him up or should I just keep on going? I wish I just keep on kept on going, but I didn't turned around picked him up And That's when that's when the nightmare became a reality

Damn You know He he pulled what serial killers like to call pulling a large march Yep pulling a large march peewee's big adventure. Yep 18 year old steven hicks Had decided that he was going to hitchhike his way to a rock concert. Uh, we don't know which concert Who could have it been? Yeah Bad company. It was one of those terrible bands. Yeah, so we don't know which concert it was but uh, He was hitchhiking back. Jeffrey Dahmer picked him up and said like hey, you want to go back to my place for some beers

You're gonna come back to my place. That's it. He said let's go back to my place. Let's have some beers You know, I've got the whole house to myself They go back. Jeffrey said that he has no idea what they talked about leading up to actually the sex He just says we got drunk. We had sex and the guy said like, all right Well, I'm gonna get out of here now. Like I gotta go. I already did all the shit I'd never wanted to do before but somehow ended up doing it. So, uh, you know, I'm gonna go I'm gonna question my fucking choices out on the highway, but I'll see you soon, buddy Yep, I'm just gonna get back to hitching then

Very good. So like and uh, Jeffrey and they don't don't go And at this point, yeah, he said uh, the guy wanted to leave and I didn't want him to leave So then Jeffrey hits him with a barbell, you know from his weightlifting set and uh, after a brief scuffle they started They started wrestling around. Uh, Jeffrey hits him again knocks him unconscious and strangles him Yep and strangles him dead and so The corpse is down on the ground He started, he removed the guy's clothing. Uh, he started caressing and kissing the body Yeah, yeah

lay down Beside him and even though he had just fucked this guy's virul, uh, jerked off onto the guy He was a young man. He's 18 years old at this point, you know, you can do that So he was living alone his senior year of high school for three months Yeah, I mean possibly longer. I don't know exactly the exact time period But yeah, he was living alone for yeah, most of high school Yeah, if he was to be poorly, he would have been the coolest summer of everybody's life I'm gonna party that into huge parties things like that. So he took the body

down to the crawl space Cut it into pieces. He put all the sever parts and triple lined garbage bags Burned the idea and the clothing and a trash barrel behind the house He dumped the bags into a ravine four miles away years later He would go back after he got out of the army. He would go back to this He went back to the scene of the crime. He found the bones and he pulverized the bones with a sledgehammer And then scattered them all around. Well, because this is also not only is it just getting rid of the body It's destroying the crime. Yeah, it's him trying to then because what we'll learn is that he spent the rest of this

This latency period between this and his next official kill He spent it trying to push all his feelings down into a fucking barrel It's sort of ironic that he destroyed all the bones because I mean he kept every other piece of every murder after this one But that showed how pretty much everything was. Yeah, no, it's this one in the second one He's still trying to figure out what he's wanting to do the second one. He also gets rid of, you know, it's like Jeffrey Dahmer Did everything opposite to like how fog had envisioned America? Yeah, yeah, maybe that was the concert thing I was gonna go see and this you also see You know, we see it in serial killers time and time again

He got stopped by the cops with the body in his car Uh, the cops stopped him. He was a little bit drunk. The cops were was with the cops Yeah, yeah, of course. This is wisconsin in 1978. So everyone's driving around a little bit a good solid white kid a little bit drunk That's how all white kids should be. Yeah. No, I mean, that's the thing the cops just they pulled him over to make sure he was just a Little bit drunk We don't want them sober drivers around here stuffing up traffic. So as we'll find out later Uh, three only three of Jeffrey's 19 victims were white. Uh, his first two were white and his last one were white So the treatment that the white kid got police retraced Hicks entire route

They interviewed everyone the family offered a $2,500 reward. His name was entered into a national computer network Yeah, $2,500 is literally a million dollars now. Yeah, and yeah a national computer network in 1978 sort of like facebook And so his parents divorced his mother moved to Chippewa Falls with brother david He got she got a degree of a bachelor of arts in speech at the university of wisconsin So she's flourishing. She's getting her groove. Yeah, she's getting the hell out of there But here's what's funny when jeffrey was caught in 1991 Uh, the Chippewa Herald telegram nothing had ever happened in Chippewa Falls So the headline they ran was mother of accused mass murderer lived here

Wow, isn't that exciting? And so there's a good brewery in Chippewa Falls. Oh good. Yeah, so good jeffrey. He graduates high school He goes to Ohio State for business studies. Of course. He does nothing but get drunk They said that his dorm room was nothing but empty liquor bottles And was anyone ever met a good business major? I haven't they're all they're all running from something or just frat guys It's having fun. Absolutely. So he's you know, he last six months In college and also in 1978 linel mary's sherry jordan Who a friend described as the epitome of the wicked stepmother just being born with the name sherry

Not makes it makes you bad And so five days after his father mary sherry jeffrey says fuck this I'm going to the army and he goes into the army and as we were saying this before another episode We were talking about there was some episode we were talking about this too, which is like he should have been in the army If we're gonna have anybody in the army, sure Yes, give him structure. Teach him. Teach him skills. Get him out there I mean the army should just be full of sort of emotional and sociopath. I think it is. Yeah, that's who goes But I think no not all of them. We have a lot of we have a I mean, that's the problem

I wish we had some less Good humans in the army and they weren't destroyed by what happened being emotional sociopath or emotionalist social sociopath That's a good soldier. Yeah, and here's what you know Here's what's ironic about is that this emotional sociopath they put him in possibly the most compassionate position Uh in the army. He was a combat medic. Yeah, and he said but this was he didn't he say that he uh, he never wanted to draw blood He couldn't draw blood. He didn't that's also very ironic is that he couldn't he just couldn't stand to see a drop of blood Because because he's pushing down the memories of his first he's gonna make them rock hard And of course the alcoholism does not stop. He actually had a suitcase

That was fashioned into a kind of bar He would open it up and there was a martini shaker a stir all kinds of liquor in there again It sounds like a fucking eighties comedy. He's so cool. I know that's the sound like stripes Yeah, and he spent his weekends his first few you know for a little while he spent most of his weekends By the way, he was stationed in germany. This was all all in a bomb holder in west germany Uh, and he spent his weekends just getting wasted and sitting on his bunk listening to black Sabbath Have a good god damn time Yeah, that's and you envy his life at this point

It's not so bad. It minus the murder and then of course the terrible would desire to have sex with fetal pigs But yeah, and we know that Dahmer did not kill anyone in germany because as soon as the news came out that You know that this guy killed 17 people when they started going through his history They're like, oh fuck because he was gone for long stretches of time in germany He would disappear for entire weekends and then he started disappearing past his weekend furloughs So the german police they did a huge investigation into all the murders around bomb holder on that time And there were some there was one Uh famous unsolved mutilation case, but it was a young girl. So it didn't fit

Yeah, and he can't even look at a booby. No, he gets driven insane by boobies like Give me a severed penis any day And so he was very he kept to himself except occasionally he would get belligerently drunk and just start hurling racial slurs at all the black It's interesting though because yeah, like you said most of his victims were black or uh, Hispanic Because he was desperately in love with them Exactly with them and also it's an intelligent like we were talking about with the black serial killer case They're the less dead. They're even lesser than the less dead less dead tend to be prostitutes and things like that

Well, what jeffrey said later on is the reason why he uh started killing uh black people and uh, Hispanic people is that that's what he found most attractive because they had the hairless chest that he loved because jeffrey Was obsessed with torsos out of everything else. That was what he focused on the most. That's what he loved was the chest Yeah, who loves it. I love it. You know, I understand a good man's chest. Oh, this is something nice. It's like a plate You know, it's like a big old servant train when you get up there the nipples are like two little fucking Swedish meatballs You go You know, no, you stick your finger in the belly button. Oh, I know everything about a men's chest So after with nine months everything has a plate, huh?

Yeah, yeah, you could you could deliver some food on that. Yep. Well, uh, excuse me I gotta go drive my car, which is like a little moving restaurant. So I'll see you I love that plate over there. You can put a budget hamburger. That's a book. That's a book Yeah, you put food on there. So jeff too drunk for the army. Uh, was discharged with that's a name of a cappalee shore movie Too drunk for the army He was discharged with nine months to serve and as he was leaving his bunk He turned around and turned to his bunkmates and said Someday you'll hear about me again. Yikes, which I kind of like of course as he was drunk all the time

I kind of see is more like you you haven't heard the last of all Jeff Dahmer Then just gets in the car Jeff You could please just go. Fuck you. I know. Okay. Yes. Fuck me. Yes. If you could just go give me the keys Yeah, his squad leader. He uh, his name was david g goss drove him to the airport and he said in a conversation He said there was something bugging him in germany. I knew he had a troubled past

And I knew he had something that was gnawing at him. He'd say there was something he couldn't talk about You know what you do when some guy who's drunk mumbling about something that he can't talk about Don't pick at it. Don't pick at it. You don't need to know you don't need to know that information Because if he tells you if he was super wasted, he'd just tell you if it was a thing that he could that it was like a fun Secret he'd be telling you over and over again every time he got drunk. But because he's not telling you It's a really dark one that you are then implicated. Yeah, yeah Usually you don't want to talk about like oh, it's all my mom. I walked into my mom and my dad having sex It was so gross like that's something you might bring up. But you'd even laugh about it, but then you can laugh about it

Yeah, I mean, but you say you try to remove your own ribs so you could suck your own dick like that's like a bad secret Yeah, that's a bad one. That would be interesting though. Yeah Yeah, what would it be? Well, I mean yeah, don't pry too much though Because if Dahmer tells you that he killed a bunch of people now you're involved and you got to do you got to work You got to do a whole bunch of work. Yeah, that's paperwork. Yeah, it's not fun And so uh after being discharged from the army, they gave him a ticket to anywhere He wanted to go in the continental united states. So where did he choose? Miami, florida Wow

Do you have the mustache at this time? I don't know what the army is No, I think maybe you know a lot of guys get out of the army. They grow facial hair It's an actual reaction. He's down here. He's right next to cuba. You know what I mean? I bet he's got one of those white shirts on with the embroidery on the sides of him. He's eating plantans My Doros, I mean it's more like he's working in a sandwich shop and living at a seedy motel Yeah So he gets evicted from the motel, of course He lives on the beach for a while figures. Maya after a year figures. Miami isn't for him moves back in with his

Let me say my he didn't get along in Miami. He didn't he didn't get along in my army. I thought it but it's the land of butts and fluorescent Swimsuits, I think well, no, he's a triple midwest guy Yeah, too much for him. You know, he likes the idea. He's like, oh, I hear everybody jugs in Miami But then he didn't realize that they jog real fast And like they're all muscular and he's like he needs a fatter guy to uh, you know try to slim down to the tiny boys Yeah, that's true. Yeah, uh, and so So he moved back in. I hate the way I said that. Yeah, I know. All he did was the tiny boys All he did was the tiny boys

I do I just picture him sucking down a huge margarine I can't you know, I just can't get drunk enough on rum. It's just too much rum Yeah, too much sugar. I think someone's a sugar. I gotta go back to wisconsin Yeah, and he does he go well first he goes back to Ohio to live with his father and his uh stepmother And of course, he doesn't stop drinking. He's unemployed. He's getting into bar fights constantly. He broke a couple ribs He's getting gashes all over his face. And of course his father says I can't handle him anymore My bitch of a wife is fucking talking about him all the time getting on my ass about it I'm gonna say sharer was right about this one. You think oh, yeah

Yeah, son is a sociopath. She also had a not against david too She had a not against david. Let's just say david didn't do much either to help the situation All right, this is like we literally because it's like if anybody could have reached out to jeffrey You probably could have been him. Yeah, if a brother came up, that's this is like It's not a younger brother's job to save his older brother from killing a bunch of people It's I would say you know your brothers better than they know themselves Just because you've been around the first whole long you saw them doing something real crooked You'd at least tell mom and dad

Yeah, you do something but but anyways, it's just like but yeah, sharer. He was right because jeffrey domers those are probably like Drunk like just staring at shit happens walking around just going like the bodies just won't go away You know like just saying just the random sentences like that definitely so he He moved in with his grandmother kathryn dommer and that's not depressing at all You know every was 23 years old at this time. Yeah, he's about 23. He just left miami to go live with his grandmother In west alice wisconsin This is when he shows up wisconsin. He lives in his mother his grandmother's basement

He gets a job at the milwaukey blood plasma center, which is strange considering how in the army He couldn't even prick someone with a needle to do it now He's wearing bags of blood like they're an eye mask falling asleep in the back room You know tell me like oh you guys want to make a raspberry milkshake and then Do a cut and slice them open and throw them all over each other. Yeah, exactly So in 1982 life was pretty uneventful for a little while but in 1982 He was charged with drunken disorderly conduct And according to the police report he did lower his pants in the presence of approximately 25 people

Including women and children. He really ramped up. Yeah, this was and that was at a state fair by the way But that wasn't for erotic purposes. He was just blackout drunk Yeah, he was just blackout drunk. He was fine 25 dollars for that. That's it. Yeah, different time Different times. Wow 25 bucks for a moona. Yeah, and so four years goes by and uh and in 1985 And I think this is when we should end part one. That's when he gets a job at the ambrosia chocolate company Yeah, there's bones in chocolate Bones in the chocolate Now this doesn't say almonds chocolate. I don't know. It's just like, uh, it kind of tastes like a knuckle. Yeah, don't ask me how I know

You know how much he got paid to that chocolate factor one last little fact nine dollars an hour unbelievable You know how much that is more than I made when I worked at the strand. Yeah, that's great And then it's 85 money. I get about 15 bucks an hour. I checked inflation. It's 19 dollars and 96 cents an hour No, shit. Yeah, unbelievable inflation check. Yeah, thank you. That was the best inflation check. I've ever heard. Yeah He worked the night shift 11 p.m. To 7 a.m. Six nights a week with and this is very important Saturday evenings off. Oh, yeah, because that's when Saturday night is all right All right. Well, that's dumber for you right now episode one. God knows how many parts we're gonna do this And it's gonna be three but it's really is true. It's just like it brings up a lot of feelings and nostalgia

It's like this is the guy that just nobody saved. This is the man that nobody saves I I feel sympathy for him even though he was a fucking he was a true monster. Yes, you know, he was the boogeyman But he's no Richard Ramirez. He's no John Wayne Gacy He's just a he was caught in a cycle that he couldn't get himself out of and he had nobody to help him Yeah, and he's very and you know, he's very unique among serial killers and that he hated killing The killing the killing wanted to get that's why he had to get blackout drunk to do it Yeah, and I think that that really sets him apart as extremely mentally ill Because it's a process or process or product killers. Yeah, and he was a product killer

He could have been a good guy to work at the morgue something like that. I mean he would get fine I know There was a time when he was 17 and a local teenage boy died and he attempted to dig the teenage boy up But the ground was too hard Midwestern winners and tomorrow is my birthday may 1st Which is the number one satanic holiday while pergas night So please in my honor go and enjoy yourself by dancing naked outside of your home Well, jeffrey dommer did just arrested and fined 25 dollars for doing that over the age of 18

Again still illegal to dance outside naked and they're not gonna understand your explanation I've listened to a package And there's a fat one the fat one told me to dress naked. You know, all I got to say is that's when the cannibalists have started Yeah, yeah, that's why I get so nervous He's getting pulled into the cop car. So maybe I'm wrong And I'm just saying or at least, you know, you know, just drink a lot do something do something to have fun Yeah, just to have fun. Just have a good time. All right. That's uh, yeah So, uh, that's that's the first episode on dommer at margus parks

That's right at henry's henry loves you. Yeah, no twitter. I am at ben kissle Uh, inhale satan. Hail satan. Hail yourselves. I'll gain the constellations Help me and a hail dommer. Hail dommer. Hail dommer I hope he's up in heaven having fun sucking Beethoven's copines. Yeah