Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 133: Waco

Episode Date: February 17, 2015

The Branch-Davidians, David Koresh, and Mount Carmel. The ATF, the FBI, and Janet Reno. See how badly the American government can screw up when all these things come together on today's episode all about the infamous Waco siege of 1993.

There's no place to escape to this is the last time on the left That's when the cannibalism started Are we good to go good good yeah perfect all right everyone welcome to the show that spark is parks I'm Ben kissle my name is ding dong goes to the bing bong Henry Zabrowski having fun since 1947 Producing solid rock and roll comedy and society reverse none of them look at me I used to be somebody when you were a kid I used to be somebody don't look at your uncle that way. I used to be nine somebody's you never worry You're just a boy. You never got chance to be a professional not yet not yet

Well, you did get a chance to be a professional and you blew it You blew it you're your big shot. I was too short to be in the war It's actually a good time to be short isn't a war bouncing around The old chair and I gotta say skip that flight in Malaysia, huh? Miss the flight go meet the girl Stephanie you told her you'd meet her at the bar, but said oh I got to get in a flight to Malaysia this weekend. I gotta work to do I say skip it and make it a sleepless in Seattle moment for yourself Yeah, that was a not any real details in there about the Malaysian flight that went over

Shut down over the Ukraine. All right everyone today We're gonna talk about a subject that we've been wanting to talk about for a very long time and finally the day is here Wake Goat Texas Mr. David Koresh and the branch Davidians. I gotta say normally I like my branch Davidian to be a medium rare You know, it's a little upsetting. It's a little bit insulting to the chef though You gotta have the branch Davidian raw Bloody and raw Unfortunately, these branch Davidians came out. Well, well

Done yeah, I've been sitting on that joke for for months months and man was it worth it Well one thing that I've been kind of surprised about because you know when I start researching something It's the only thing that I can talk to people about for like a week Yeah, so I've been kind of talking to people about the branch Davidians and it's funny It's weird. How many people don't know anything about this seat was because it was successfully We were disinformed. Yeah successfully by the our government. We weren't disinformed We were just not really informed because it's disinformed. I would call it a blooper Government they don't really put it in the history books because it makes them look like murderers. It's a bit of a mix them up

They did it's a mix around Yes, oh, yeah, as you're found the same bit of a bugaboo here was a bit of a bugaboo and we'll find out later a lot of these senators In particular one. Mr. Chuck Schumer tried to make a whole career out of this damn The main problem with the Waco siege it was because the ATF they hate barns That's a big problem. I really hate compounds. They just don't like anybody having a groovy time not an America's fucking dine Exactly there were it was BT a BATF a buttaf doesn't really work So they just cut the barns out of the alcohol tobacco You should see them in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. They can't even get through the highway

They make it three miles down. They're like we got our rest every silo in sight Oh, and they do it indeed the Waco siege happened between February 28th and April 19th 1993 It is one of the many Incidents that we covered in the American Curse episode way long ago It's also the same time period as the Boston bombings the Boston Massacre some of the biggest industrial bombings It's also what inspired the biggest incidents of domestic terrorism in the United States the Oklahoma City bombing No, 1993 was also the same year at the first bombing in the World Trade Center, right? Yes Heavy year. Yeah, Prince's was huge on the radio Whitney Houston's. I will always love you was number one on the charts

Oh, I don't think Kevin Costner gets enough respect and enough credit for that Yeah, because honestly, she was compact of frame, but she actually weighed 325 pounds the simple act of him dragging her across that stage was a Herculean effort It was go see Hercules in theaters sponsored by Henry's a Browse See the bodyguard of course, that's the reference where I will always love you That was the the movie where that song became a big hit and I'll tell you Whitney ended her life Well, it went so smooth She had a smooth ride I went I stayed in the Beverly Hilton this week

The floor below where Whitney Houston died and they removed the numbers of all of the doors around That hotel room just to make it more creepy Yeah, so that you can't accidentally find it and go in there because they had a lot of people going in there and stealing memorabilia Which I can understand because what Whitney Houston died she shat gold out of her pussy That's why she weighed so much. It was crazy Yeah, that's if Kevin Costner would have known before he signed up to the bodyguard her pussy was full of gold Everything was ten times. It's worth after she died. All right. Let's get back on track. This entire incident it ended up With 76 men women and children dying in this compound outside of Waco, Texas in a place

They called Mount Carmel these people were a part of a break-off set called the branch to vidians that were originally a part of The seventh day Adventists and these people believed in the literal truth of the Bible and they were not a fun group Right like these are guys they couldn't have caffeine. They're gonna have caffeine They had really strict dietary concerns and also they believe it's something about like the immortality of the soul where it's like your soul Actually remains in in play. It's like a live ball Yeah, and soccer it remains in play until the end times come so basically when you die We're basically all put into a waiting room waiting for Jesus to show up during the full end times that have been going on since 1844 as we all know think about the magazine reading you can catch up on that you couldn't do while you were

Waiting in God's waiting room all sorts of ghost dad scenarios. Oh, and the and the humor that goes with it But this is a very common theme that's expressed through most evangelicalism and and really I disagree with you slightly Mr. Zabrowski because the the seven seals the apocalyptic religious types. They're the most fun to talk to They are a good time. I mean they the end of days I never wanted to come just so people can constantly be talking about it, but they're like anything. They're they're fun on their turf It's like a comedian. They're funny when you see them and they're like in there Comfortable, but as soon as you get them in their house, you realize man, this guy's gotta go. Yeah, he's a he's a hoarder Why do you have all this trash around? Yeah, I don't have any money for garbage bags

What the branch Davidians believed in they believed especially in the literal truth of Revelations and they believed in the seven seals, but what they believed It was not that the second coming of Jesus Christ was gonna bring the seven seals about it was instead the coming of what they Called the final Messiah and the final Messiah the lamb as they called him He looked sort of like saying sue for Mortal Kombat Yeah, you would have the long mustache that hangs down he could shape shift into other branch Davidians Well, yeah, he was pretty sweet, but the guy that they decided was the final Christ was a man born Vernon Wayne Howe, but eventually christened David Koresh

Yeah, he had problems with the dyslexia growing up, which I really enjoyed Do you know what his childhood nickname was mr. Ritardo mr. Ritardo that's Somebody that can never be put on fire Hey mr. Ritardo mr. Ritardo, I'd love the act. Can we change the name? Ritardo my name my last name is Ritardo. There had to be somebody last name Ritardo at some point So he had a pretty rough upbringing his mother was a 15 year old high school dropout called Bonnie Sue Clark He was born in Houston Bonnie Sue Clark Bonnie Sue Clark Mm-hmm. He was allegedly gang raped by older boys when he was eight years old

It's hard to be young. You know, this is what I say with kids these days, you know, just leave a nasty message on the Facebook page Yeah, yeah, this is what they used to do. Yeah. Yeah back in the 60s and 70s. There was no cyberbullying There was only gang rape behind the convenience store. Yeah, ain't old bullying Oh, yeah, not good. So when Koresh was 22 he became a born-a-kin Christian He became a part of the southern Baptist Church and then joined his mother's church the seventh day Adventist Church And then in 1982 he moved on out to Waco, Texas joined the branch to vidians, but what you're asking What else was David Koresh doing at that time? Was he just loving Jesus? Well now was he David Koresh at this time? He was not he was still Vernon Wayne how Vernon how still Vernon how but what was there a nobody? He went there

Vernon. Yeah, thank you Vernon. You stinky Vernon's coming to the church. No one thought nothing of it. We got out of here before I'm forced to rape you. Are you burning for middle school? Then we call you mr. Retardo. Let me get your pets down. I just want to take a look at it. I can't believe Mr. Retardo is here But he didn't just show up as dirty Vernon. He showed up as dirty Vernon the rock and dude who could play some sick licks This is the only reason you should ever go to college so you can also live a different life that you had in high school That's the whole point. You can remake your whole lifestyle. Also. Yeah, of course The final Christ can shred on the electric guitar if he didn't I wouldn't believe it was him coming down in a fucking Transam that's on fire all on the sides of it

He's riding a skateboard on top of the car fucking just licking up, you know like Oh Jesus used to be able to play a carved out Squash You could play a carved out squash like nobody's business No shirts just blow it open and their nipples fully erect just looking at him David Koresh did Played a few bands in and around Waco, Texas He tried to start his own record company

But because of lack of support and funds it never got off the ground everyone to seem also a connection to Manson Yep, definitely a connection to Manson. It said that his status as a rock singer was quote localized Localize no, no, I misspeak. Excuse me quote very local That sounds like something you say when you're a public when you're in the public You would like a governor and you're like don't worry the swine flu's been localized I'm very localized. You're free to go to school now. It's also a way to describe my dad's like comedy career It's just my dad harassing the man at the butcher at the Publix

I do comedy in my own living room and you comedy at Mario's butcher shop very localized very localized so 1983 Vernon, let's just keep calling him Vernon until he switches his name over to Koresh in 1983 Vernon starts claiming the gift of prophecy and he shacks up with Lois Rodin who is the prophetess and leader of the sect only thing about that Lois Rodin 77 years old 77 years old So this is a problem. I understand. Yeah, he's rock his guitar playing dude He could see in the future kind of like Christopher Walken from did zone. He meets a 77 year old woman And maybe she's got some swingers, but what she's also got a whole bunch of power behind us So what you do you got to step that dip stick down that oil well

Yeah, good work Vernon. It's an old car, but yeah, there's still oil in there. I'm sure you can get that dip stick nice and wet So Vernon's doing this entire thing to circumvent the man who claims to be the rightful heir to the Branch Davidians that would be Lois's son Joe or absolutely in order to it's kind of like in order for me to get my job On NBC's a to z right. I had to murder French Stewart. I did not know that. Well, very good job. It's very underreported So but this is a little bit on the nose. I mean people have to be warning this woman to be like I don't think Vernon really likes you for your physical beauty You're 77 your shade I still got a clinching clam down there. You bring it. Are you tell you bring me a crooked little stinker?

And I can make it straight with my sticky sticky. Oh, I want to take over the church one day So Lois starts letting David or Vernon preach his own message or message to all of the Branch Davidians It was just being like you got to love that gray bush This is a very smart way for him to do it because it's the one angle the sexual angle That her son who was the next in line to leave the church can't do can't do you can never bang his own mother to get the position so by 1987 The leadership is split but with most people going over to Vernon's side people don't like what George has to say

But I also find this is only like three degrees away from like an Owen Wilson movie No, like it's very close, right So as rodent he decides in a last-ditch effort to prove that Koresh or Vernon is not the Messiah He makes a bit of a wager and rodent like flipped coins and stuff like that No, they bet on like a bunch of horses. That's me. That's a good thing to wager. No. No, they decided to wager on dead bodies George rodent he goes out to the local cemetery He digs up the freshest body he can find and he says Vernon if you are the Messiah

You are going to be able to raise this body. He's like listen, buddy. Yes. I know I took your job I've been fucking your mom. Yeah, but what I need you to do here Let's chill out with the wagers. He should have just had the old gal go in there pretend to be a corpse and then wake up Cover up like a Vincent Price. He slowly becomes his fucking. He's like playing in the club Well speaking of quick side note about the mother George rodent claimed that Koresh had gotten his 77 year old mother pregnant and in a later Interview Koresh was quoted as saying if I took a 70 year old woman and got her pregnant. You better watch out I am God and that's what the quote that was then used by every single person in order to build a case against them

Yeah, just I am God and he was just being a smart ass. Yeah, it was dick wet with some grandma oil I mean people are very sensitive to these terms David Koresh or Vernon at the time He John Lennon got it exactly really upset with him and he was making some great, too Exactly. I was just gonna say John Lennon was loved. He dropped words bigger than Jesus and everybody turned out I'm so you can imagine how people were upset with the mr. Koresh for even mentioning the him and God in the same Apparently Jeff Foxworthy said like, you know, I might be a god Baby inside a 77 year old woman's vagina, but he he's very successful. Yeah, that's true So Vernon goes to the authorities to file charges against rodent saying, you know, okay

He is a grave digger. We must file charges And that's the ultimate rat of just like you doesn't even he didn't even get to do the bed He didn't even try to bring this person alive. He just what he's like. I'm telling you you've been digging up bodies And he's like, I'm I'm still doing it. He's just like trying to like move the dead body Well, this is before weekend to Bernie's came out. He wasn't so creative He didn't have the idea put into his brain by Hollywood yet You know, I'll say as far as false messiahs go and I've studied a lot of them as far as false messiahs go David Koresh is the most reasonable one out of them all well

Let's go back to this and really explain it because this is a brilliant way of getting out of this challenge He knows he can't raise this woman from the dead. Oh, he knows immediately just goes to the cops makes himself look rational and Completely gets out of having to perform a miracle. We have several instances of looking very rational to the police They do they you know when you have problems with the guns later on down the line He did purchase those guns legally. Yes, they were they were a fine community I'm gonna say this again any group of people that decide to go live in a bunker in the middle of the desert a compound not a Bunker, I'm sorry because I know Hitler is a bunker Wait, we also have to remember that Hitler is a bunker wait who is a compound Hitler is a bunker where it goes the compound

That he didn't answer any questions on his essay Bunker wait goes a compound for pages That's all we've been teaching him so we still gave him the 1300 because he spelled it all correct The the property anybody does this sort of scenario is gotta be a little weird. Yeah, I don't think that this is that obscene though It really isn't like I think after checking out these people like quite a bit watching videos of them You know reading about a lot of testimonials and a lot of the people in Waco even the sheriff the local sheriff said these were very nice People he said, you know, I really liked him a lot a lot of the local people in Waco They would go out to the compound and they you know all shoot guns together at the firing range

They were very well respected in the community groovy. Everybody just had armpit hair. Yeah Yeah, they were fine. They remind me of a Hare Krishna's, you know, they've done nothing wrong I mean, I would love to see them in like a kick line Like everywhere they go I kind of want somebody to kick them in their butt. We're not that hard No, yeah, a comical kick just be like you guys miss the Gamecube You do realize that right that the Gamecube all came out and you all missed it They're like gamecube all we have is stickin ball. Just want to grab them by their necks and be like 2014 14 so Rodin never actually got charged with exhuming the corpse because the cops told them that they needed photographic evidence

In order to convict the guy so Koresh goes out a gun battle starts Rodin gets shot in the arm the sheriff gets there they get charged with attempted murder So then they eventually get off though. However, what is the final nail in the coffin for Rodin is that in 1989 at this point all the Koresh and his followers are all living in buses and tents in Palestine out in Palestine, Texas Oh, thank God. Yeah. Yeah, that would be a bit out of the way Yeah, it's a bit of a plane ride and a boat ride. Oh, yeah, and so Rodin unfortunately in 1989 He killed a guy with an axe to the skull For saying that this guy was the Messiah

Rodin was convicted of murder imprisoned in a mental hospital at Big Big Spring, Texas Coincidentally, I know a lot of people who have done time at Big Spring It's kind of like that scenario where they said they took all the people that said they were Napoleon and put them in one Room and a French is insane asylum, and they're all like, you know, like I'm Napoleon It's like they're gonna be for I am Napoleon the other guys like I'm just Short and I have an attitude problem I love I feel like they could just just call it the conversation that never ends Napoleon's in one room, but you have so many people trying to reasonably argue that they are in fact the Messiah of this group

But can we go so okay? So we were in 89 now has has Vernon become David yet? He becomes David one year later in 1990. He changes his name legally He legally changes his name and it says in the court documents It says quote for publicity and business purposes to David correct So it's interesting that he went through all of this all of the and this is the one thing with the ATF They were gonna talk about when it comes to the federal government branded them a cult and a terrorist group He went through every legal step to get his name changed. He he understood Societal structure enough to go through the legal process of doing it. His whole name was David lollipop knees

Yeah, that was weird. That was a little weird. I know but what does David Koresh mean David Koresh It is kind of a sideways reference to Cyrus the great And Cyrus the great was a ruler back in the 500 or 500 BC 600 BC somewhere on there And he was one of the guys that helped to lead the Jews out of persecution the first time very distant relative of Billy Ray Cyrus Oh, I've heard that you remember him. So no more competition Of course, I remember it in fact Billy Ray Cyrus will come up later. Um, what? Yeah, so Competition is competition is in prison because he asked a dude in the face So now it's sort of everyone's on board the people even that were questioning Koresh

We're like well, we're going with David now They've moved back into Mount Carmel and in fact that Mount Carmel used to be a bunch of cottages But all of the members when they returned they tore down all the cottages and used the lumber from those to build a compound That we eventually came to know and love America hates this shit We like is you take those cottages you burn them down you cook hot dogs with the fire That you burn those cottages down and you build everything else out of aluminum side They did not have the typical American aluminum side. My other question is mark Mount Carmel now This isn't like a Willy Wonka. It is not type scenario a Bible reference. Oh, okay

Yeah, yeah, and in fact in the Bible it describes a landscape much like that of Waco, Texas flat dirty and brown made of candy This was also in Palestine No, no Palestine. Oh mark. No, this is back in a Waco, Texas. This is back outside of Waco. Yeah, they've already left Palestine In fact, in fact in Texas it's pronounced Palestine. Well, of course because Palestine is how they would say in the Middle East Yeah, we're different here in Texas. It's just like the town in Texas that spells Miami. They call it Miami But but yeah, I mean as far as as far as what what the the environment looks like it's very Middle Eastern Yes, Texas. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, like and I want to mention this fact that will become very important later When they move back in the Mount Carmel the former tenants the people that rodent was renting it out to they had a

meth lab in The compound that was true That was not a rumor that was that no that was original there originally was a meth lab there But as soon as Koresh found it he called the cops and said hey, there's a meth lab here You need to come out and get rid of this the cops came out They got rid of it. This is my other question. Is there something that because you know like, you know, Jim Jones He was he was a maniac masquerading as a Messiah Yeah, David Koresh the more I read about him and we researched this thing

I really true do truly believe that he thought he was helping people from a genuine place Yes, but does that not make him more dangerous of a person? This makes him in my personal opinion David Koresh was 20 years away from having a bring-up young Yes, yeah, I mean really I mean this is just a religious leader that brought brought his congregation together They were getting educated. They were I mean, you know, we'll go into some of the sexual exploits That's not tends to be a man's downfall Mr. Koresh is as well, but if you put 30 people under a tent, there's gotta be fucking Completely honest, you know, so it's like it's bring him run bring him young

You don't really don't think he was he wasn't finger-popping everybody that was around him Of course, you know, that's one of the things that the Mormons and the branch Davidians have in common Is it a lot of these new religious sex when they eventually when they start getting big? That's when all the child sex abuse claims of course because they're having sex with the children because those are the new women There's not a lot of people around Well, that does all I'm good. I'm not yeah, I'm not saying it's good. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just saying they're fucking There are there obviously probably fucking a watermelon, too You know, I mean like they're carving the holes at it out of sand. They're fucking a sand

It gets to a point where you're just like I can fuck Julie. It's a common theme amongst people in a commune So they've got a compound and David Koresh is in full-on messiah mode And this is when we start getting into the sex abuse It's so hard to keep those robes clean. Oh, we gotta ask Lord Rael what he uses to keep his blight so white Yeah, I think it's a public laundry mat So first of all when couples come in to the Mount Carmel Center They are the Mount Carmel compound. They take a vow of celibacy The only person allowed to fuck is David Koresh

The reason why is in the scripture that they follow and they follow all the scripture very very literally very tightly It is said that in the end times the messiah will father 24 children and those 24 children will be the serving the elders that serve over the world that Jesus Christ Rules over as if a bunch of horny priests back in the fucking like prehistory didn't think about that back of the day Just being like whoever's leader. He's gonna be getting that to shit. Oh, yeah I mean, it's like it's like what it's whatever government has ever done. It's what Congress constantly gives themselves a raise Well, they won't raise the minimum wage, you know, of course Hey guys, hey guys, hey guys, what if the leader is the only one who can fuck am I the leader?

Oh, I'm not I don't like it. I don't like it. Well, I am the leader. I do like it. So we'll go with it Yeah, so he needs 24 different women to create 24 different children So it seems like there weren't a whole lot of women of childbearing age or willing to go through with this So he had there was no 77 year olds there. I mean there were there were a lot of old people there maybe I think too many because He had to start dipping in and into the younger just a little bit But and let me say before we go off on this. This is definitely I will go ahead and say remember There's right. There's wrong and there's the law. Yes in Texas at this time. It's not true anymore He loves to give this breakdown by the way

Yeah, I don't love me. I just like point making points, you know I just want to say this before Marcus says this in Wisconsin. We were the last state to change the drinking age From 8 it was 18 for a long time to 21. So that's what we were all obsessed with was drinking alcohol But in Texas they had a different age restriction Yes, we did up until a few years ago the age of consent and the age of marriage along with prayer rental consent was 14 It's just a touch young What knowing it would be to have a 14 year old boyfriend or girlfriend that's gotta just be like so Theoretically to 14 year old kids could get parental

Permission to marry absolutely just have a house. It's no different. I look like it is no different than my two retarded cousins getting married And and they can't have a baby Right, but you know It's a fun house to be in though to be fair And there's also there was one every night. Yeah, but we don't we don't eat spaghetti with with forks though Because I smashed the fork together in a knife So there were there was one allegation of a Pre, you know, I guess prepubescent girl saying that David Koresh molestered her

She was a part of a you know, there were a couple of disgruntled members There were a couple of people that got the fuck out of there And she testified that David Koresh had molestered her at the age of 10 But her mother didn't believe her her grandmother didn't believe her And the sheriff came in and investigated these claims and he didn't find any evidence nor did he find her credible her story Kept changing this and that so there was no actual Which is another you know, we cover all the time which is not believing the victim Yeah, it's constantly read but then it also the allegations also came from people like Mark Bro

Oh Mark, you know like Mark Bro is one of those guys who showed up and try to like take the seat from David Koresh But he didn't have enough gumption to fight him and then went to police saying like oh, he's fucking kids over there Yeah, right exactly So so just to clarify just a little bit because it's this case is so insane in saying so we're in 1990 now Yeah, the the compound is in full swing. Yeah, this is pretty much the peak of his power I mean, we're getting more in the 91 92 We're getting we're we are we are almost we're actually right now. We're probably in about December 1992 No, we're only a few months away from the raid. Have they built the compound already? Absolutely

So it's all compounded out everyone. Is it national news yet? Is it everybody know about nobody knows law enforcement Local law enforcement has zero problems because they say this is like they had several important mayor So it was like a judge that ended up being a Supreme Court judge. There was another like a one of former There was a mayor that became the head of the FBI the FBI and then of future governor of Texas and Richard It was from Waco was one of their neighbors and they all said the same thing They're a peace-loving group that just kind of mean they're weird and stinky But they just kind of play tambourines and hang out in the compound. So the people

Oh tambourines now they have outside and Richard sent in the National Guard and I Wish he was still around that immigration crisis wouldn't be happening if Miss Anne Richards was there So all local government and the people that are actually affected by this Compound of religious fanatics don't have any problem with them whatsoever. No whatsoever It is not until Mark Bro as Henry mentioned Mark Bro gets kicked out because he's in a power struggle with Koresh He gets kicked out. He vows revenge on them. So he starts calling up a bunch of different agencies saying they're stockpiling weapons There's child abuse going on there So it's true too that in order for them to fund a lot of their day-to-day activities

They moved not moved guns, but they bought guns and resold guns completely Guns just completely legal what I thought was so interesting and it was such a good just a total mental perspective shift They were talking to one of the branch Davidians and there were you know how weird we considered like a an arsenal of weapons Yeah, like a full-on artillery 225 guns. It was said they had and he was saying it wasn't an arsenal. It was It was a what do you call it inventory? Yeah, it was like we run a business our business is selling guns at gun shows It's just our inventory. There were 130 people living there You know, so they were saying there was discrepancies over what they saw in there They like the one thing where people saying like FBI agents came and saw ATF agents saw like the 50 caliber machine guns

And they're like there's no such thing as a 50 caliber machine gun Do you know how fucking insane a 50 caliber machine gun would be I don't is that the one that that? Superfly use A 50 caliber machine gun will liquefy a person from or just a 50 caliber gun a 50 caliber sniper rifle We'll liquefy a head from 200 yards away. I want to see it David Koresh is elderly gal there. Yeah, that's what she got. Yeah, and you're talking about your mouth to liquefy that Yeah, so this guy's and he's also calling up the cult awareness network and the cult awareness network or people that you know It was kind of created in the wake of Jonestown where they would go in they would kidnap

But they had very tenuous connections to the beginnings of Scientology as well No, the cult awareness network is a very interesting group that could actually have its own episode of their connections Because then that's what they did because the United States government used the cult awareness network heavily To kind of frame the Waco scenario So they can sell it to the people that were going and rating them for good reason and again not in not a difficult sell now You know the people turned on Lenin when he mentioned, you know, Jesus It's very easy to make Koresh seem like a monster very easy And so it's at this point that people start paying attention to the branch Davidians

So we're 92 we're in 19 that we're in 1992 late 93 because it's a 1992 or earlier that year because this whole thing happened the Waco thing happened in early early 1993 It's a 1992 that Ruby Ridge happens and Ruby Ridge is a very infamous thing that a lot of militia members cite as The US government It's a big second amendment thing where this guy and his family had a bunch of guns The ATF went in and ended up killing two people wounding two people like for ATF agents died huge PR disaster Yeah, so at this point the ATF is looking to polish up their image a little bit and they're looking around for different places Where they could do these really big really public raids where they can look like badasses

They can take a bunch of I mean they wanted to have their Harlem Globe Trotters going against the Washington generals moment Yeah, you know, they were just like it's gonna be a setup game. Everyone hates David Koresh. He thinks he's God This is the police Oscars Right, we want to win this picture this year, but they want to be Meryl Streep They're like guaranteed a victory very good. This thing lasted 51 days the ATF while they were planning it They were expecting it to last 20 minutes Their plan was to go in Videotaped this it's gonna last 20 minutes

We're gonna have some great footage and then we're gonna get the fuck out of it. No more US military actions in any desert related lands. Yeah, we just don't do well unless there's a grass and trees about so the search warrant comes up the whole thing is not wasn't so good I guess it's a flawed theory unless they're Germans. We don't do well against them. Well, think about all the great food We got from nom You know, I love the pad Thai that's Thailand I love a general on me very much on me is great great sandwich So the whole thing is behind a search warrant the ATF they put out a search warrant for they say illegal guns

They say these people have modified AK-47s They say that they have certain guns that they haven't paid the proper taxes on like a $200 tax Which is really the thing here. Yeah, that's where I came from like it's cuz they didn't pay taxes on these guns Yeah, and then it's like they incensed as we are a lot of this comes down from the Department of Treasury Like at the end at the fuck at the end of the day the Department of Treasury That's the head of the body at this whole thing. Yeah, so and it's trickling all down to the ATF and eventually the FBI Who can't trust the the old IRS, you know, they're so good great But again as we know if we talk we've talked about on all the podcasts that we do you're always breaking the law

Yeah, if the government wants to find you guilty they can find you guilty of something or at least enough reasonable doubt to go in there And mess with your life absolutely and this search warrant Included in the search warrant not just all the gun stuff two-thirds of the search warrant the vast majority of the search warrant Talked about the child abuse allegations. Yes, even though the ATF has no jurisdiction whatsoever to investigate child abuse and then also pretty much came from the The the testimony of Mark, bro. Yeah, like he came out and he said that he was fucking children Which I mean technically he was but legally according to the lovely state of Texas Marcus, right? Yes, legally. He was having sex with young kids. Yes

I mean, you know, it is it's Texas. I mean, what can you do? You can't yeah and the allegations that the ATF put in their search warrant there were things that were already taken care of like first of all A neighbor said that they heard machine gun fire on their property a sheriff went out to investigate and it was said that David Koresh owned something called a hellfire trigger What is a hellfire trigger? It just makes it kind of makes it makes it louder. It makes it louder Just a little bit faster. Like it's not it makes a fire faster, but not illegal faster. Oh, yeah It's still the same bullet. I mean, you know, these these brain convenience. They should have been lawyers Yeah, the way they are successfully navigating all these laws fucking kids awesome guns, man

And I know and only that but in the lead up to this the ATF started going out to the gun store in Waco where a lot of their guns funneled through and The owner of the place called up Koresh and said hey the ATF is here asking about you and Koresh said tell him to come on out Right. We got shit. Yeah, he's like we got nothing to hide just fucking come on out because they're starting to get nervous Right because they're starting. I mean, they're starting to hear the branch devideans are trying to get nervous What's really weird about this whole process that the ATF was doing like like basically talking to the newspapers about how like We're gonna get these branch devideans like and like openly for them to read in the newspaper From what I recall and like you were saying again, this is where the ATF is going to save face

Yeah, you know, this is gonna be their big big laugh They're calling the shot like Babe Ruth and they're like we're gonna go and get those branch devideans They're like, we're just doing macrame and as the media covered Babe Ruth and left out the fact He was a raging alcoholic racist wife abuser So did the media leave out that the fact that ATF is completely over Stepping the bounds of the federal government, you know should be controlled Well, what happened with that with the newspapers is that the ATF they originally wanted the element of surprise So the newspapers weren't supposed to release that guys guys guys

We're gonna dress up like 30 pizza delivery man. Yeah, who's gonna make the call She's like, yeah, it's just so how are these guys should we do like 15? 15 vegetable pizzas I think you're focusing too much on the people. There's gonna be no actual pizza in the box We're gonna need some those those you know those bags to keep the pizzas hot We're gonna need some dominoes doesn't matter. No pizzas are actually in the box whatsoever No, we're gonna need is some Hyundai Sonatas. That's not the perfect pizza delivery call I got some fake zits that put on my face. We can get this

We can get the Hondas And it's not not only this but at the time Waco their district attorney the Waco their prosecution of gun cases were at a record high higher than most other districts in all I also mentioned that the district attorney of Waco is like literally sitting on a like a chair made out of guns Right, right. Right. So guns guns are great. You can build a whole ten out of a gun Yeah, so on February 28th 1993 over 100 ATF agents along with three Helicopters show up at the compound and the branch Davidians they definitely knew the raid was coming because since this was a PR move The ATF their publicity woman. They sent like photographers and print poor porters

Yeah, they called up the local news station said hey We're gonna be doing this raid, but they didn't tell him what time it was So the reporters showed up 30 minutes before the fucking right began and this is you know Meanwhile like Mary Beth has been so in new dresses for all of David crushes baby wives And she's like oh the fashion show reporters are here Doing like long skirt fashion shows out in front of the compound Yeah, but this is where the theories and this is this is really where the media and the government do work together Oh create a single narrative. It's pretty interesting

No point should the media be allowed to be tipped off by the government. They're like, oh, okay. Yes government I mean, did you ever ask why why why why you guys going in there to David crushes place? I don't think they cared to Alex Jones about it But you see on TV and in the newspapers and on the internet what the government wants you to see of course It is framed there was just a woman or a bit of topic, but when it comes to this subject It's the woman who was reporting the the war that's going on in Israel and Palestine right now They're bombing the Israel is just destroying Gaza. She was up there on a mountain top watching with a bunch of Israelis They were just laughing. I mean they thought it was like they were watching. I want to say big bang theory

He's a huge show. I was thinking maybe perfect strangers I think that just got over there as well and she tweeted out, you know, these people are acting like monsters watching all these folks get Destroyed next day fired. Yeah immediately fired because she was you know pointing out. It's a hard-line thing We are not getting very much information about what's going on. You really have to watch them all. Yeah, yeah Yeah, and there's a lot of other as far as Gaza goes. There's a lot of other Anyways, yeah, so this reality show yeah for MTV's real world was was the compound that David Koresh and I can give you a Very good example of the media colluding with the government in this actual Spot in this actual Waco siege. There's a point in during the siege in which the branch to vidians rolled out this huge banner

And it said God help us. We need the press Yeah, and and then the next thing is a bunch of press people with their arms around each other all Smiling and they all say in unison. God help us. We are the press Man, so the press was against him, which means they're gonna lose I mean you look at the civil rights movement as well The press was used for more of a beneficial I mean obviously civil rights was a good cause for the press Yeah, but they were always out there front line because I knew if that's if it's recorded

It's not gonna be as brutal and not only that the raid the video of this raid was Originally given to a local Waco television station But the version that all of us see if you watch the video of the raid it is very badly It's kind of insanely cut together because it's jumps in time and just being like you don't think I can't see that Yeah, I see them shift positions. It's so weird You're making it look like how I watch a porno you watch the first 44 seconds of the trick I mean like I can't wait to have some big dog and then you fast forward to the final three minutes So let's go into this raid full on these guys come up the date now

This is February 28, 1993 February 28th, and this is the initial raid. This is the initial raid So about I mean just dozens of agents all piled out of these huge cattle cars Which have just all they have the only protection they have is just these tarps over these cattle cars These guys fly out and the ATF by the way is not very well trained with assault rifles and pistols It's very strange how feel for what they do if you yeah, if you do the firearms bureau if you watch the footage They're hope they are handling their guns like Dude climbing climbing the ladder He reaches because basically they put ladders on top of the sides of the compound in order to climb a bunch of the roof

They showed this video this police officer's climbing ladder. He reaches for his gun Accidentally discharges in his holster and shoots himself on the leg. He falls off the fun. Like it's a police academy movie Yeah, you do get the feeling it was like all right today's gun training. We're gonna watch die hard It's gonna be great So they say that the branch to videons fired first However, if you look at the front door of the compound, which is a metal door The only holes that you see are bullets going in and it said that what that first shot actually was was one of the ATF Agents

Accidentally fired off their gun. So all the rest of the ATF agents went apeshit and just started unloading Swiping the whole front of the house. It's kind of like the act of the very popular theory of what actually happened at JFK Which I truly believe yeah, which is which is a secret a secret service officer They have unsafetyed m16 rifles underneath the seats of the security Limos when they were driving behind JFK, well, they really believed that it was a nervous new secret service member lifted up The AK fell in the back of the seat and accidentally discharged and blew the back of JFK's head off Yeah, which is very interesting. I believe that's what happens. There's also out of Prince Academy 9 Yeah, I don't think that's what happened, but we'll get it. We'll do that

We'll do a whole nother episode on that. Yeah, but but yeah was was Bobcat Goldthwaite in the ACF at the time That's what I will say the problem was that it turns out the guy who does all the sound effects He's Lee Harvey Hosswald in that movie He's quite good But it was all just sounds and bloopers and the girl with the big tents and high tower was there great movie Yeah, absolutely great movie. So they the ATF maintains that they were a part of an ambush But there is by the way, how could they have been a part of an ambush? They were the ones attacking I mean being a victim of the ambush a victim of the ambush no way

But I you know that someone made a very very good point that if they wanted to ambush them the ATF showed up in These big cattle trailers and again with us was there 30 minutes before yeah, these huge newspaper was scheduled With these huge tarps over them if they really wanted to ambush them They could have mowed them down in a matter of Minutes before they even got I mean I'm talking D-day style the branch Davidians could have won the war the branch Davidians They could have these guys down David Kress was really smart and knew hey They come and unload on a compound full of unarmed like women and children

They are gonna get bad press out of this. Yeah, I like that's like their ultimate defense Yeah, and some of the guys in the branch Davidian compound did return fire But Kress said that it was young guys like this young guys that were scared shitless and they just kind of unloaded and again That is not illegal. You have a right to defend your property If somebody comes up to your property regardless of the other sheriff of the ATF I mean you can't if you're getting shot at I mean Texas kind of has a stand your ground kind of law It's property law. Yeah. Yeah So as soon as they start shooting the branch Davidians call 9-1-1 and I've heard the cause these people are fucking

Terrified of course they are they're seeing helicopters come out of the sky. I have no problems with just seeing helicopters Just out of the sky alone and myself and these helicopters are strafing the top There are ATF agents in the helicopters firing down and there's at least there was a one woman who was nursing her baby She got shot through the hand it went out the her elbow And there was a guy that was one of the main guys one of David crushes like right-hand men Who was killed when? Bullets from the helicopters came in through the walls while he was in his bedroom and this was when I I forget who it was somebody ran into see this man covered in water because they had destroyed the water supply

Which was a of course a a military tactic. They took out their supplies for water I mean these aren't accidents, you know, so this next part that I want to talk as long as they don't mess with the sultans Leave my crackers alone. There's something about cults love sultans You got kids in a cult For this Yeah, they said like they would you go to this one restaurant heavens gate and they'd all get the chicken pot pie Gotta get it love the chicken pot pie You know that these guys are eating a lot of casserole's a lot of chicken pot pie

Oh, cold kids may have more salty. It's cold kids can't get enough of them get out of here kid So this next part comes from a documentary that was circulated around the United States by various right-wing militias Called the big lie. It's kind of entertaining. It's very it's a homemade video made by I would guess the 90s version of Orly Tates Except a little bit more credible. So here's what she says about the initial rate the most famous Shot that we can see is these three agents or these four agents breaking in a window Tearing down a curtain and then going inside So what she says happens is that these three agents? They enter the window and as soon as the three are inside There's a cut and a fourth agent that was on the roof

There's a cut where he's suddenly outside of the window and he appears to grab a grenade off of his belt Right throw a grenade into the wind behind the agents Yes, and then he takes out his machine gun and fires twice Into the window and it's kind of it. It's like it's a little bit like you can't really explain it unless he was trying to Kill his own people the men who were killed all three of them allegedly were Members of Bill Clinton's Secret Service while Bill Clinton was on campaign while Bill Clinton was president of the United States of America What are you hiding Clinton? What are you hiding? I understand the tone of voice you're you're saying there's a conspiracy I don't know what it would be. I don't understand where the conspiracy is though. I don't either

Well, I have to figure it out. Yeah, this was back in the day when he was doing like secret McDonald McDonald's runs before he was I mean, I don't know it's kind of like this whole like Casey Kasem Israel Palestine conflict conspiracy theory that I'm working on right now I haven't connected the dots yet, but I'm gonna motherfucker Well, I didn't place his case. He case him is right now buried in a planter. I like that He's he's he's at the Ripley believe it or not museum as the world's oldest skeleton I don't know well this case is so So interesting in its own. We don't even need those wackadoo conspiracy theories

Did this this documentary about what happened on the initial raid because obviously then what we have 51 days Yeah, 51 days was this circulating during that time. No, this is a completely post late 93 Okay, it was yeah, this happened in February. So this I think the the video came out late 93 Maybe early 94, but I believe it was the same year So on the 28th all the ATF went in there. How long did that fight take two hours two hours and then the ATF retreated Yeah, the ATF retreated because the ATF ran out of ammo literally right and at this point again the branch Davidians showing extreme Restraint extreme restraint. Yeah. Yeah, they could have mowed them all down again They could have killed every single one of them

But as soon as they started retreating the branch Davidians any fire which was very minimal any fire that they were putting out Completely stopped and you do get the feeling at this point two hours in when the ATF ran out of bullets They were really upset with the truck full of pizza You know the pepperoni Adam I got an idea guys we still sell the pizza make the money back up for the raid That's why you're on board So three additional people tried to return to the compound they had gone to work that day They tried getting back into the compound one guy was shot as he tried to climb over the wall He was shot seven times once to the eye once to the heart and five times in the back

And then they just left them on that fence. They left him on the fence for five days Wild dogs were eating at his body, and then they finally got the body This is an American citizen This is an American citizen killed by a government organization But isn't there a clause that the American government's not allowed to use their military on us? And here is how they got around that there is it's called out I believe prima facie in which it is illegal for the United States government to use military force against its own citizens However, the National Guard can be deployed if

Drugs are suspected or if there's a mccail's navy type Scenario that needs to be done. Yeah, Kelsey grammars involved and if Kelsey grammars involved drugs are definitely suspected and because of the previous meth lab that had been found in there they used that as I mean it was here's a good will Koresh is Going to the police and doing it all the proper way getting this drug lab completely shut down Arresting the individuals that ran the damn thing. I believe yeah was the ultimate reason that they were able to just murder a bunch of citizens That's why they were able to bring in the helicopters all of the body armor and eventually which we'll get to later the fucking tanks But in the interval between the initial raid and the second final raid

This is when there is a lot of Negotiations going on this whole time because four ATF agents were killed in this raid 20 more wounded and since federal agents were killed in the raid The FBI was brought in and the FBI takes over from the ATF and that's when the tanks come with them multiple huge military tanks against a hundred and thirty Men women and children mostly a lot of elderly people a lot of mothers and a lot of children and going back to the You know what Israelis often say about the Palestinians and Hamas and things like that They say that they use human shields and things which may or may not be true with Hamas

But that was the one claim that the that the news media was making up as well when it came to Koresh on the branch of idiots that They were using kids and women as you know You know in the front line so that you know no one no one understand how that's not really just didn't work Because they ran out of ammo and I don't think they knew why they were there And they had no idea what they were doing They spent three days training for this But they were training with like Delta team But these guys didn't know how to raid a compound these guys are used to raiding apartments

And if you see they raided a house at Ruby Ridge that fucked up too. They couldn't handle one dude in a cabin How are they gonna handle a hundred and thirty people in a hidden compound with underground bunkers and all this shit But you know you go back I mean this this sort of stuff still happens today, of course we had Clive and Bundy We talked about him a lot on top hat and of course ATF came in there And at this point I feel like they're so much more gun-shy than they were I there hasn't really been a Koresh like situation they cannot do it anymore. No, there's too much media attention Everyone's got go-pros on there on the branch devideans would have a Twitter account

They'd be live tweeting from the inside of that while the raid was happening And it's funny cuz Clive Bundy did do that exact tactic of putting women and children up front Absolutely, but the branch devideans did not put women and children up front In fact the FBI requested that they send out a video like just let us know the children Okay, we know there's a lot in there. Just let them let us know that they're doing fine So the branch devideans made this huge long video in which they Interviewed the FBI gave them the cameras. Yeah, the FBI gave them the cameras They gave them multiple videos how these negotiations work. Yeah, how like they were actively talking the whole time the whole time

And they were like we're here man. We're here. You're keeping us inside here In fact the FBI were the only people they could talk to because they shot off their electricity water And telephone lines they could only talk to the FBI, right? So they make this video these multiple videos talking to children talking to Congregation members and Koresh had been shot during the original Ray had been shot and he showed his bullet wound. He gives it to the FBI But the FBI after they get it Here's what the official report said that night the devideans sent out a videotape of the children in the compound

The negotiators log shows that when the tape was reviewed There was concern that if the tape were released to the media Koresh would gain much sympathy Of course because they're all just sitting in there like it's just them taking care of their kids And they're not doing anything and the interesting thing about Koresh. He wasn't so What's the the large word to describe like a mastermind that's like a megalomania? That's right I was trying to talk to my friend Dave about it. He's a megalomaniac But he wasn't really like that he was actually a relatively subdued personality He had the same problems of anybody who believes that they're the messiah nobody

Which is you have you believe that he was an extension of jesus, but he did not To be he always said that jesus was better than him Yeah, he wasn't like David ike in a pantsuit in an 89 interview in the british TV on british tv claiming to be jesus In fact, he called himself and this term was eventually turned around on him He called himself the sinful messiah I also have the ice I probably started I should use that line if i'm ever like applying for a job again It's a great interview tactic of just being like hey listen. I know jesus is better than me, but at the same time Let me fuck your wife

This whole time the fbi is doing their best to drive these people insane They're using all of the siege tactics. They've got these bright stadium lights on them at all times They're playing nancy sinatra's these boots are made for walking over and over and over love that song Oh, you love that whole album. It's great these days. You would have gotten a fucking uh Metallica no metallica or uh taylor swift was the other guy who sings the grenade for you that guy that uh that the guy with the big hair who's uh bruce linney kravitz bruce madal daryl That's his name

But the worst things they blasted at them Uh, they blasted the sound of rabbits being slaughtered slaughter. Do you guys know what rabbits dying sounds like? No, but I bet you that you do Hey, you guys snap it come on now. Come on. Uh, no, it's uh more like this You know what though it just makes me think of like stew Yeah, everyone's walking around the compound just rock hard. They don't know why For hours on in let's hear it one more time. Yeah I had this really delicious rabbit stew in new orleans

You're not supposed to think of food when you hear rabbits keep being massacred. I just it's just delicious. It was so good So the fbi uh in addition to blasting all of this bullshit at them all the time They also take to mooning them which is you know cops having fun We were I told this story about my dad playing like yeah blasting polka music into the bronx and they're like cops have a great sense of humor Yeah, well except for when the uh after the branch Davidians buried one of their members out front the uh fbi came out with one of their Tanks and just rolled over the grave over and over and over again. Some jokes are Polarizing Yeah, I would argue. They're not so much. They're not real funny. Uh, unless you were on the side of the person making the joke

Yes, yeah, they also ran over all their cars with the tanks. They ran over all the kids go cards I mean honestly in certain parts of texas the guy the branch were Davidians would have thought that was hilarious I mean kind of yeah, I mean like oh shit. You're oh there he goes. It was monster truck Yeah, the the god the fbi says that you know koresh lied to them five times about coming out I said I'm gonna come out and I'm not there was only one time where he said I want a message played to the world After you play it. I'll come out. They played the message to the world They sent it to all the media and then he said god says it's not the right time It was him just playing kocomo on the cassette. Oh, yeah

I remember that Very talented What was that message the message was just I you know, I want to talk to people I want to give them my message you want to tell them that we're not bad people Right, you know shit like that But you know, here's one thing that I believe Really speaks towards him is that people were allowed to leave Anytime they wanted to right but as soon as they left they were arrested

And 11 people went on trial for the deaths of those original four ATF agents Oh, because they got persecuted. Yeah, they all got yeah as soon as they got out But they were all acquitted all all yeah all 11 were but that doesn't mean their lives weren't completely trashed with legal fees And they're like your life is pretty much over. Well, I mean, you know, and then the threats start coming in Uh, the branch divisions. They're talking on the phone to uh the fbi and they start They're really getting into their heads like they could just set this place on fire And we'd all die like that that's just and so the guy and uh, you know, the guy that they were talking to said You know, we only have one fire extinguisher in here and the fbi agent goes

Somebody ought to buy some fire insurance Right and at this time again, so they're They're narrative, you know that they're sending to the media is getting completely twisted and turned and really everyone just thinks Because you know, we were 11 12 13 years old during this time Yeah, well, they never had a shot. I just never had a shot I remember the the picture of david koresh with his hair all wild and crazy and then a bunch of people Like huddled in a thing and then the shot of wake up on fire and all you think is like, oh, it's just a bunch of crazy people Yeah, right no not at all

Uh, in fact the uh, what the people inside they wanted a press member to be a go-between between them and the fbi Uh, because the fbi kept constantly lying to them about stuff. I've heard the transcript I've heard the uh audio recordings. They're just constantly catching them in lies. Uh, but finally And these were some smart people even the uh, there was I mean a couple of them were harvard grads Like yeah, they weren't idiots. Well, one of the guys choice, but to lie though. They had no choice Yeah, I mean they were trying to that mean they kept saying they were trying to get them out of there But one day they finally hit a breakthrough david koresh said all right god has spoken to me

He has said write things down start writing you need to start writing about the seven seals and he told the fbi He said I have deciphered the first seal The interpretation that I had earlier the prophecies of dying are not going to be fulfilled I just need to write these seven seals And once they're all deciphered then we will come and it's just like one of his hot pockets got burnt Right like in the oven. He's just like this is the sign. Yeah, I just think of the oven But I think that the dial on the ovens broke and he's like Jesus Christ Right look at it. Look at it. No, look at it. It looks kind of it looks like Jesus's

Foot just get away from me and then go to the negotiators that we're talking to and the people They're working on the psychological profiles the people working on the psychological profile said do not engage these people Do not be aggressive with them. Just let it run its course negotiators If this is a huge breakthrough, we're on our way. Uh, but unfortunately Attorney general Janet Reno didn't feel like waiting around. No, you know, I mean usually uh, attorney generals don't have such big balls I miss her. Oh, I miss a good old-fashioned ugly person in office. You don't get a lot of them anymore. Not anymore Well, uh, will ferrell did a great impression of janitor playing my song Dan Reno's dance party. Yeah, probably my boots were made for walking as a matter of fact that was probably her song

But I mean this was definitely an attempt by Koresh to just buy time Yes, I mean some people say it was an attempt to buy time But you know, I believe the negotiators when they say it was not an attempt to buy time This was the breakthrough that they were looking for to say like, all right, they will come out Eventually, no, it's like convincing, you know, like Johnny Depp to like finally come out of his trailer by saying Yes, we'll call you Don Cahody for the day. You know, I mean like That's what they're like. Yes, of course Yes, let him just finish this journal

But public opinion at that time this thing had been going on for 51 days The vast public opinion was go in get them. Right like you got to go in like I mean we we make fun of uh, you know keeping up with the Kardashians and all these ridiculous reality shows But at least it's not the oj simpson trial and wake go anymore Well, like that's what wait, I mean really these are both These were like all nostalgic for the 90s. The 90s were fucking horrible real reality tv Yeah, that's what it was all trade center wake up oklahoma city We don't get the news anymore right now. We just don't get the new well

We didn't get the news back then though either. Yeah, we just got the show And so it's on april 18th the janet Reno says tomorrow 6 a.m You get the tanks and you fucking go in and get them and give me the pizzas So at uh, you know david's actually getting really good at making pizzas I gotta bet. I think I got a future. There's a thing. What's with over this raid? So at 6 a.m. April 19th 1983 the tanks come in and they start spraying what is called cs gas Now this is to like this is they said gently convince the women and children to leave the compound So the cs gas uh the cs gas that they used by the way

There is this is the same type of gas that they expose soldiers to at boot camp For a few minutes at a time and everyone's seen the videos of the soldiers. They're crying right right They're you know snot's coming out everywhere. Yeah, there's choking. They're choking. It said they're exposed to it for a few minutes It's like being in ben's bedroom Ah Yeah, I gotta get a screen for my window Thank you. I can't either bugs I want bugs out there so the branch devideans they were exposed to 10 times the amount over a period of six hours

And not 10 times the amount that would be a trainee in the military exactly 10 times the amount And the cs gas that they use they actually used a powder And what they mixed the powder with was methylamine chloride also known as paint thinner And in enclosed spaces it can cause unconsciousness and death But most importantly it can be ignited with a single spark into a huge fucking fire So after koresh worked so hard to get crystal meth out they brought paint thinner right back You know methylamine. Yeah pretty much. Yeah, that was so at 9 a.m

A few hours after the ray begins and the tanks are just fucking Destroying this compound. It's easy. It was made by leftover cabin wood. Right, right And they're saying that they just need to poke a couple of holes in here and there to get the uh, the tanks through Watch a tank just rip through the wall and pull out the whole thing. It's crazy. Yeah, totally obscene Yeah, and it's at 9 a.m. The ray's been going on for like a battle robots moot show battle. Yeah They did look like battle robots. Yeah, all those people died though. So but it was yeah It was a 70 a couple of careers got killed with battle bots A couple of career comedians careers

We're killed so the ray's going on for three hours and it's not even really going all that well But janet reno decides, you know what I need to head to baltimore. I got a speech So she turns the entire control over to it was all about tucking dick This is how you do it ladies So she leaves and the whole thing is left over to uh the fb ahead of the fbi and some people from the clinton administration We have no clue what went on in that situation room. There's no record of it So we have no idea Burn them down burn them down

If you're a president burn them down is a fun thing to say. You just scream it out and be like Make make the fire it depends. Someone changed the words in the record to make it sound cooler. Yeah So at 11. Yeah, you would do that. See I'm how would you do a marcus? How would I do what you got to be told to burn it down If you're a president, I would be more of a guy next to a fire. Maybe I'm sipping on a key it burn it down But you're like, let's burn this motherfucker now We better I hope they brought hot dogs and it's like, thank you president robin williams I just look him straight in the eye and go

Hellfire There we go different worlds. Yeah So 11 24 a.m The gunfire begins not from the branch divisions, but from the fbi They start shooting into all the holes that they've made from the tanks and we know this not because we have any actual like on the ground footage of it They did all this behind the compound where there was no actual news media We know this because there was a plane overhead using something called fleer, which is essentially aerial thermal imaging

So they're able to look down and they're able to see every time a gunshot goes off And they're seeing all around the back. They're seeing from two different tanks agents on these tanks Just firing into these into this fucking house. It looks like a great movie It had to have been and the fbi still maintains that they never fired a single shot In the end during the entire siege It is the thermal imaging also shows people entering and exiting the armed vehicles But it also shows people being run over by the armed via by these tanks and in fact, there's a picture There's one point where one of the tanks the tread

You know the tread completely breaks So they have to go out and tow it out and first of all They're saying that these people are being fired on like the fbi is being fired on But they just have some dudes Amble up to the tank and hook it on and then pull it out, but you look underneath the tire tread and what do you see? But a piece of red cloth Later after the whole place burns down They find a heavily mutilated body with an arm being ripped off and what is that guy wearing a red jacket?

Yeah, right. It's very interesting when you watch the video of the raid The the attitude is so casual. Yeah, like people are just walking in and out of there It's kind of crazy. It feels like you're watching like CCTV footage of like a street It makes no sense. There's no urgency. So the women and children they all retreat to a concrete bunker in the kitchen So the fbi they have on the ground thermal imaging going on at this point So they know where everybody they're watching them go underground And then basically that tank comes and parks itself right above the entrance of the bunker

Yeah, it parks right above the entrance of the bunker so people cannot get out Uh, and it also goes in and it shoots it goes into the compound And it shoots Tier gas in there the cs gas in there right where all of the women and children are and the fbi maintains like they said like You know what? No, you know, these people have gas masks. It's not going to hurt the babies don't have gas masks There's not baby sized gas masks babies are immune to gas I should know you can fart on a baby all day. Oh, have you been farting on a lot of babies? Or were you a farted on baby? I was a farted upon baby and look at me

strong I mean, I got all nine fingers So they've been firing into this compound for 30 minutes now it is now about noon right cs Like the dust from the cs gas That covers everything from their run been running into the uh a compound over and over again They've got these people at the branch divisions have kerosene cans All around that they've been using to light their lamps because they haven't had electricity for 50 days So this whole place the vapor is coming up all of the cs gas is everywhere

There are holes in the compound which are creating these wind tunnels There's 25 mile an hour winds these wind tunnels if there is even if there is a fire without this accelerant It is going to take this fucking place down But it is soaked in kerosene and methylamine So it's at this point that they've decided to put one more little like raid of gas into the compound But another smartass decides that he's going to fire some tear gas canisters in as well Unfortunately, they're pyrotechnic tear gas canisters so they burst and it sets the fire of the whole fucking compound So they burst and a spark hits that gas and it sends a fireball

Shooting from one into the compound to another Which ignites another fireball which sends another one fucking going meanwhile the tanks are just ripping through the compound walls Just like tearing it down down All the debris is falling on top of the bunker entrance and if they were already making it a dutch oven And not a fun one you do with your girlfriend or your boyfriend And you put it into it But a lot of the but the people the person doesn't like that. No. No. Yeah, so they were kind of making it a dutch oven Yeah, yeah, the Braves convenience didn't like it, but they were laughing the people

FBI couldn't get enough of the joke the FBI was loving it and there were all these people trapped in this bunker And the coroner reports said that the vast majority of children that were found in the bunker died from blunt force trauma to the head Which was concrete coming down and laying down on top of them from the tanks ahead But the vast a lot of the only thing these people were guilty of was being slightly Different Christians. Yeah. Yeah At the same time, you know, I don't enjoy any type of Christian. I don't I don't enjoy them Of course, you know, they're hard. They're hard to understand But when it my parents go to a evangelical Christian Haitian church

And I'm sure that pastor at the pulpit that gets a federal funding or a federal tax exemption rather is uh Is says just as crazy things as david koresh said to these people in fact I would argue that david koresh. He was not a hateful man in the least bit His teachings were not weird. They weren't hateful at all If I would consider evangelical christians to be worse and more harmful than the branch of it Our government also hates the idea that anybody chooses to live outside of the government Yeah, like if you can go and live on a compound in your own independent life stuff They don't want to see that at all because it just shows

The how hard we are to control They like to keep the main line of just being like you need to respect us We you need to stay an active member of our society But they were they were active members of the society again david koresh. He could have just called himself david koresh No, he did it legally. I mean he did everything legally. They these guys followed the the book legal guns I mean they were on david koresh constantly talked about he he constantly said okay. I'm an american first He's like I love being an american. I think this is a great country right, but the people that run it are now Killing me

Yes, and the fbi this whole time this place is on fire and I'm sure people out there if you I mean You may not even know what it was, but everyone's seen a picture of the compound on fire. Yes horrifying And you would think that they would want people in there to try to get this under control But the fbi actively kept fire trucks away from the compound because as they said They were afraid that firefighters were going to be shot And the even though the branch devideans had not fired a single shot that entire party line was was that they had set the fire The party line is that the branch devideans set the fire and they did it as a big suicide mission And it's just like no it was heaven's gate before or after it was about three or four years

So but jones town of course was before so the the notion of cult Suicide mass suicide was a narrative that the american public would be easily Uh, it would it's easily digested. I mean jones town already happened. So I mean if you got 900 water 70 You know like that's they'd say like they in fact they're like, oh, well, that's nowhere near as bad Right, but you know they kept the uh, they kept all the fire trucks away And in that bunker where the women and children were They see a bottleneck where they can escape they see a hole in the wall where they can escape Unfortunately, there are a couple of fbi agents with machine guns there and this is backed up by thermal imaging

fucking chuck schumer He maintained that all these people 27 people by the way died from self-inflicted gunshot wounds Self-inflicted gunshot wounds, but you can see from the thermal imaging two people facing this crowd Unloading into them. Just rapid fucking fine. This now comes down to you can't have any witnesses. Yeah. Yeah, of course It's like the expendables, you know, yeah, but you know what? I love chuck schumer when he comes under new york one What a charmer. Oh, he's a nice liberal democrat I love for everybody. And chuck schumer was doing the easter egg hunts chuck schumer is a total schmuck He should be schmuck schumer

schmuck schumer Tweet at him schmuck schumer And then the hashtag last podcast on the left. Remember wake go. Yeah, remember wake go schmuck schumer No, it is pathetic and a lot of senators and a lot of congressmen tried to make this a career Move for them, but there were a lot of senators and congressmen who are actually trying to find the truth on this This is back before congress was a hundred percent shitty. Well, I mean, you know, there's still some congressmen out there trying to find the truth And yeah, but they also believe, you know, they also believe in chemtrails. That's a problem. It's one or the other Yeah, it's really not very good and chuck schumer was the one during the wake go congressional hearings

That was most against the branch. I love what they did and I'm happy that they did it But you know what proves the fact that the atf and the fbi and the federal government and janet rino and the clinton administration Acted improperly was the fact how differently they handled the warren jeff situation. Yeah, warren jeff just went through a prosecution It was a very similar and it was very similar paper No, he had a town. Yeah colorado city He was there when I was a kid and he was a rapist and a monster and the whole thing I mean, you know, I still think david crush is wrong just because I think anybody How do you handle it? That's the question. Yes. And what at some point, um, it was a dry raid

Yes Yeah, you know that that's the way to do it, but but it's never really happened I mean again and clive bundy as well the atf stood down. They're like, we can't have another wake-up So everyone knows how bad wake-up was which is so ironic, of course every time every time you're trying to make a woman Love you. You just do something stupid And the fbi and the atf is like america's gonna love us We're gonna do something great for them and they just came across looking like idiots. Wow. That is a great analogy Yeah, you had to let america come to you. That's right. You know what I mean?

Play hard to get atm. Hey nice put nice cologne on right? Yeah, and yeah, you're talking about destroying evidence as the building is burning. There are tanks Pushing the debris into the fire Actively destroying what is a crime scene what is absolutely a crime scene even if it is suicide It's still a crime scene and they're just actively destroying everything and after that God, this is the worst part. There's a flagpole Had the star of david on it for the branch to vidians sure It burns off flies off and as soon as it flies off

The atf runs their fucking flag up and that is a that is a hollywood producers idea That is a wag the tail like they were doing it. Oh, they were showing it Look at this shot we got here. Bam. Bam. That is so fucking disgusting. Well that that more I don't know that's like they're conquerors. No, they've conquered. They've conquered be like I gotta say though I basically mind boggling. This is what happens when you don't have a unilateral International anime when it's when when the when the russians went down When we no longer had the russkies and the soviet union to fight we we we chose to fight ourselves I also will like to say prayer for all the bad macaroni art that died. Oh my god, the kids

I'm telling you. I don't even know so horror. It's horrible. Yeah. Yeah, and all of the shell casings all the bullets all the grenade fragments all of the So-called illegal weapons because the atf or the epi said that they found 58 illegally modified ak 47s in the wreckage, but on the other hand they confiscated all of that And it has never been allowed to be inspected by anybody besides the fbi since it's like jfk's brain To go back to jfk and it's like whitney houston's hotel room We're gonna whitewash that so I can't go play with this sink. Yeah And uh janet reno said there was absolutely no doubt at all that the cult member set the fire and the only

action taken against any of the atf agents A few of them were forced to resign with full pensions right not because 70 people burned to death But because it was said they lost the element of surprise Yeah, and then she invited all her girlfriends over for a nice night where they were gonna try on makeup together and talk about how much They love their husbands, right? That's that's the whole thing. That's why you can't trust janet reno because by definition You can't trust uh a closeted homosexual They're always lying everything they've ever done is a lie. Yeah

Yeah, and it is great to see a couple of gallon, you know three gallon size pencil skirts It's okay. You can't you don't see much that anymore. Oh my goodness. Wow the worst consequence of all I believe that the worst consequence of weco came two years later with the bombing of the Murrah building in Oklahoma City right by timothy mcvay and timothy mcvay specifically Sighted weco as the reason behind the Oklahoma City bombing which the Oklahoma City bombing by the way The largest case of domestic terrorism in American history killed over 300 people And he cited weco as his inspiration. Well, you know, it's just one of the it's an old adage

But they always say, uh, you know violence, uh, you know bigots violence And that's the same thing with the you know the boston marathon bombers They were complaining about the drone attacks over in yemen in pakistan teaching osama bin laden how to fight guerrilla warfare Like not a brilliant idea to kill the to beat the russians, you know, I mean we we we have a history of that We're really good teachers. Yeah, but it's I also have a real problem with the 11th season of Of that that's singing the voice the voice that is that shows really gone, but 11 seasons get it Give up Mcvay was a terrible terrorist. Yeah, that's the guy that's the guy to arrest. Oh, we got him. Let uh, we got him

Yeah, we got him less than a day later. Just took us a couple more days to eat Yeah, you know when you should get timothy mcvay the day before That's when you nab them grab them good there. Yeah, but wake up is a uh a fucking deep deep scar on the soul of america It's a turning point. It really is. Well, you know Buy japanese That's my new public car never done nothing wrong. Yeah, the japanese have never done anything wrong to america Uh, you know, they've done some stuff. They got great cartoons. Love the cartoons. Yeah, um, well that was great Wait, we all learned a lot today. Yeah, I hope that was educational have fun with your jobs

Going to have fun now. Yeah going to jobs and watching baseball and enjoying yourself right right. Yeah wake o texas Well, hopefully it doesn't happen again Ah, yeah Oh, yeah, just have to find a good charismatic leader these days. It's hard I mean again, that was the weird thing about koresh not that charismatic and that's kind of why people like he kind of looked like Jeffrey Dahmer kind of dead That's kind of asses people in our who appeal our fans seem to think Jeffrey Dahmer is handsome. So, yeah Well, it's good to be back. We'll be doing more episodes. I'm going to be bouncing around

Of the country you have you're you're going to be going on to Atlanta tomorrow to start shooting the uh What the third season? No, well more pretty more second season. Oh more second season for preface And then you'll be going down to shoot your abc sitcom in So please come by and uh see me bring me Weed that sounds great. And that's andry loves you on twitter marcus barks on twitter and then kissle, of course And uh, I guess we've got the shirts coming out soon. Yeah. Yeah, you can start talking about that now

Yeah, we've got the t-shirts that are coming very soon either uh this week or next We're going to be opening up donations to last podcast on the left And uh, we're going to be doing pre-orders for shirts uh with every 25 donation, uh, or 25 donation or more You will receive a T-shirt and if you're lucky it'll smell like one of us. Yeah, well, we're going to rub all the shirts on one of our butts So that'll be exciting and I want to thank everybody from the bottom of my heart for the happy birthday wishes That we're very sweet. I don't celebrate my birthday, but I do on facebook. Yeah, so that's kind of very sweet. Yes. Thank you Hey satan

Uh, please hair him Hair again, hair again Magoo's delations everybody. Magoo's delations. Oh, such sweet. Say a pat from Magoo's delations. Yeah And hail me, I swear if you will. And hail yourselves as well All right, everyone. We'll talk to you soon You You You

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