Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 160: The Boston Strangler Murders Part 2 - Shoes in the Shower

Episode Date: February 17, 2015

It's the second part of the Boston Strangler Murders as we cover the two psychics who became entrenched in the search for the killer and both the likely and unlikely suspects of the murders including the man who took credit for it all but probably didn't do it: Albert DeSalvo.

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On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? Picking balls. I wonder if there's a porno called the Boston Dangler. It looks like you just made it, and you will make it. I mean, I won't watch it. If you wish it, it will be.

Is that a saying? That's a secret. That's the secret. If you wish it, if you think about it. Hitler taught us that lesson. No, no, an author did. The author of A Less Secret, which is Spanish. Hitler, Adolf Hitler, also called Mein Kampf. Doesn't that mean the secret in German?

Maybe. I don't speak the language. You don't speak the German? You can't even pick up some words? Struggle. I will also write up a cold Mein Kampf, but it's me struggling with putting on my pants in the morning. That's sad. Welcome to the Sharper One. That's Marcus Parks.

I'm Ben Kessel, and we are joined by... We're back. We're doing the Boston Dangler again. I think the big lesson it's important to learn here is that George Salvo suffered from a syndrome of wanting to be too important. I think it's important for everybody to know. Yeah, you want to play football. Some people are going to be a Steve Young or a Troy Aikman or some other gay quarterback. Closeted gay.

But some people are just going to be Jerry Riggleson. You know who that is? You don't know who that is. Your third straight quarterback for the Broncos from 1988 to 1991. A nearly anonymous person, and he couldn't feel it. So this is Albert de Salvo's, like, this is his... What's it? The big lie. Yeah, this is his big time.

This is his time to be a star. It's his time to shine. It's the Boston Strangler part two. So we covered a little bit on the first episode how the Boston Globe was covering the story at this time. Of course, they were being fed a lot of facts by the medical examiner's office. They were being fed a lot of facts by the police. Why don't we hear from one of the intrepid reporters? What's her name? Her name is Loretta McLaughlin.

Yeah, and she looks like one. She's a Loretta woman. Actually, that does sound like a sexy woman. It's the opposite of that. Oh, I see. She looks like me. Alright, let's hear from Loretta. The biggest question of all, in the beginning, was were these crimes related?

And the Boston police tended to think, in fact, absolutely thought. They were not. And yet it struck me as quite ludicrous. What were we going to have? Three mad men loose in the city strangling women and tying the garrots into bows? I went to Jack McClain, who was the managing editor of The Wrecked American. And I said, why don't I look into these? And he said, oh, who cares? He said, they're nobodies.

And I said, but that's just it, Jack. They're everybody. I said, they're us. She sounds like a mixture between Paula Poundstone and Greta Van Susteren. Which is really kind of bizarre. What is comforting? She sounds like if you needed a casserole recipe, you get her on the phone. I mean, she'll talk your ear off. Oh, definitely. Oh, yes. So at this point, the cops don't know what to do. Of course, the newspapers aren't any help.

But she does bring up the point. Do you think it would be in the cops best interest not to let society think there were three maniacs on the loose and just sort of nail it down to one just to keep the hysteria down? What do you mean? So the lie is just an easy lie is better than a hard truth? Sometimes when your kids ask you where babies are made, but they're six years old, you just tell them a stork brought it. No, when my kid asked me, I don't care how old he is, three or if he's 14 and be like, how'd you make me daddy? And I'll be like, when I did the oomph. The first thing I did, I pulled out a goblet of wine.

And when we watched, we watched Breaking Bad in its entirety together. And then, well, I took an ambient and I woke up and I guess we fucked. Well, unborn little Henry Zabrowski, you can always call Uncle Ben Kissel when your father is creeping you out. Whatever your father creeps you out. Uncle Ben. So Attorney General Edward Brooke, who was in charge of this case, he had a lot to lose. He had been elected the first black attorney general in the entire United States just a few months after the death of the Stringler's first victim. Before any pattern had been established. This huge case has just been dumped in this guy's lap.

He's literally, he's a historical position being the first black attorney general. It's done that Boston was that progressive. Yeah. It's also just like, if you're this poor guy, you're like, it's cause I'm black. You guys are going to give me the hardest case in Boston history because I'm black. Oh, that's what we're doing here. I couldn't get a series of jewelry thieves and I can't catch them on my own with my seer with me and my helpful boy from my neighborhood. Who's a super smart genius who built all these funny little devices in his garage and we solve mysteries together. It's like when Clinton was elected in 92, it's like, oh yeah, the world's great. The economy's down the rise and we're not going to be a war for eight years. So you can have the office now, funny white dude and Obama gets in there in 08.

Two wars and everything's gone to shit. Have it black dude. See if you can't work your magic. So in 19, it's 1963 at this point in our story and the Stringler's been on the loose for almost two years now in 1964 was an election year. So attorney general Edward Brooke was willing to try absolutely everything. He was ready to turn in himself. He rests himself. Number one attorney general. Alright, I brought you out here to the orchard to see you guys can see how well I can tie a knot around this tree. Look, he's got a little knot like a hole here at the bottom of the tree. No, I'm sorry, you're not guilty. I can't even solve my own crime that I did myself. Unfortunately, Brooke decided to put the investigation not in the hands of experienced criminal investigators,

but into the hands of one assistant attorney general, John S. Bottomley, head of the imminent domain division of the attorney general's office. So this guy, if you would put his like torso on a scale, it would be like 14, 15 pounds. And then if you put his legs and his ass on it, it's like 350 pounds. Yeah, this guy had some, if your name is Bottomley, because you know back in the day, like, you know, people like all names. You're a cobbler, you're Mike Cobbler. Yeah, yeah, so John, the Bottomley comes from the Bottomley family, which is from a group of elephant assed people from the middle of the UK somewhere. I mean, we used to play a game called, can you knock over the Bottomley? Never has. Never has, because he weebles and he wobbles, but he doesn't fall down and then he's a real fucking piece of shit about it.

So John Bottomley, he was placed in charge. One, because he was an old buddy of Brooke from law school. But two, because Brooke said he needed, it was a non-traditional case, so he needed a man of non-traditional methods. Now here is what novelist George V. Higgins, who worked for the Associated Press at the time, said. He said that he, quote, never heard a reference to Bottomley without the word asshole attaches either a suffix or a prefix. I started to think maybe it was part of the guy's name. Asshole Bottomley. It sounds like a great porn name. And Boston Police, and Boston... The picture that they use of him and this thing is him like thumbs up and a big goofy smile in the face, like, hi everybody, huh?

Wearing a bow tie. What a jerk off. Oh yeah. And also Boston Police Commissioner Edmund McNamara said about Bottomley, Holy Jesus, what a nutcake. That's so funny. So put him on the biggest case in Boston history. Yeah, so the idea, well actually, yeah, and Bottomley said that he was, or they had chosen Bottomley because, and this is a direct quote, he said because he had no experience in criminal law per se. What sort of, what theory are they basing this idea on that he might be able to solve these crimes?

No, it's like what they do, it's like in the movie The Replacements where instead of a quarterback, you don't get another professional quarterback, you get a guy who works as a slop cook. You know, he's got an arm like a fucking rocket. Just quite dumb enough to do it. Yeah, and you know what, that is actually a perfect, that is a perfect analogy for this situation, because this Bottomley guy was said to have a ton of enthusiasm. They said that he would tackle any problem that was put forth in front of him. Yeah, literally he would tackle it though.

Yeah, he was a real fucking asshole. Right. He was a pain in the ass 24-7. So the idea was to coordinate all of the investigations as the murders that were lumped in with the strangler now covered six separate police departments and three different district attorneys. And now we're seeing, and there's something that we've seen so many times before in serial killer cases, the police were not communicating with each other. And in fact, the police departments were holding back,

deliberately holding back information from other police departments. Right, it's not the Pizza Hut bookworm competition, where you're just trying to out read the people you're in class with. Yeah, you trying to figure out, yeah, it's not the Coke secret ingredient. Right. You just, use your chair. It's about getting the guy to stop killing and the rapist. It was all competitive.

We're talking about precincts that, this is no different than Bloods and Crips fighting over ridiculously stupid streets in Compton. These are precincts miles, they're very close to each other. They're blocks away from one another. Just go tell the guy that someone was murdered in your area. Everyone wanted to be the police department to crack the case. The DAs wanted to be the district attorneys to crack the case. Right. And so, because we talk about, we talk about in the first episode,

all of the subtle differences between the killings. And that seems very obvious now. You know, myself, I would say I am an amateur researcher. Sure. I am not. No, you're a professional researcher, amateur detective. All right, professional researcher, amateur detective. And I read all this stuff and I put it all together just myself that all of these subtle differences really do,

really do make up a very different profile for each killer. But we also have to remember, like we said last episode, that the notion of the serial killer did not exist at this time. And they did not look for subtleties. Like, because again, look at the coverage of the whole case in the begin with. It's all about sensationalism, putting all the lurid details right up front. It's to sell newspapers. So they are not, they're not looking at the, why is it like the difference between the real compulsion

that you strangle somebody so hard that blood comes out of yours, then you tie this knot to basically tell somebody, fuck you, to like someone getting stabbed to death and someone just kind of doing it, obviously for appearances. Yeah, they don't care about the pressure that the knot wasn't, you know, putting onto the neck. They're not going to get into that. Because that is such, that is a complicated fucking wormhole to go down, about the idea of like copycat killers and who's doing it with different motives. They're just like, we got the drooling fucking maniac, we put him in a cage, congratulations everybody.

He gets reelected and it's done. So it's 1964, the Attorney General is desperate, and it's time for the Attorney General's office to try the psychic game. Enter Peter Herkos, a famous Dutch mystic who is reportedly responsible for the solving of 27 murders in 17 countries, in addition to helping Scotland Yard find the stolen Stone of Scone, a Scottish national treasure. Scientists finally got a hold of the stone and it turned out to just be an old scone.

Isn't that something? So you're a detective, you go through school, you go through years and years of training, you work the beat, and then the next thing you know is they call up a psychic. Yeah, I need a German man who comes in and says, excuse me, please, do not push me. My turban is only sitting at the very tip of my head. Right, yeah, the cops hated this fucking guy. They must, yeah, because it's like, how'd you get here? Oh, hard work and a lot of long hours.

I had a dream about a man with a yellow umbrella. Okay, well I guess he's one of us now, so bring him on to the squad. So Hercos' area of expertise in the paranormal was psychometry. Now psychometry is the act of dividing facts about an object or its owner by touching or being near the object. Like if a blanket you have smells like baloney, you know that Ed Larsen fucking had it. Ed Larsen from the Round Table of Gentlemen and the Brighter Side podcast as well. Now Hercos' origin story was that he had originally been a house painter in Holland, but in 1943 he fell off a ladder.

I was literally gonna make the joke. He fell off a ladder. That is a painter's death. He fell off a ladder, fractured his skull, laid in a coma for three days, and when he woke up he had psychic powers. Isn't that something? Hello nurse, gunkle. I'm so glad you came into the room. What are you thinking about?

Versus butterscotch candies. Oh, I see it. Yellow disc. Man with a yellow umbrella. So Hercos never traveled anywhere without his trusty bodyguard, and Hercos showed up in Boston with a six foot eight man in a gigantic cowboy hat, yellow cowboy boots, yellow pants, and a yellow fringed leather shirt. Did he have a pet monkey?

So nowhere in this do I see the quotation marks around bodyguard. I think there should be quotation marks around that. He had a big gun with him everywhere he went. And as for Hercos, he was heavy set, six feet tall, curly black hair, and darting black eye. This is what I want to talk about in modern media. Everybody makes a psychic like this thin rail, like sexy dude. They always look like me. I am the psychic.

I agree. Yeah, no one will disagree with that statement, Henry. You have a psychic spike. My mind is important. So Hercos and police officers met in a hotel downtown. The detective brought boxes containing the nylon scarves, the nylon stockings scarves, and blouses used on the Strangler's victims in one box, and 300 photos of the crime scenes in the other.

This one is ugly. I don't like this one. I smell fat girl on it. First one of them fat? Yes. So officer removed the photos from the box, placed them carefully in stacks, laying face down on the bed. Then officer bent over the photos.

Slowly bend, please. What, you got two pumpkins sitting back there? I can't believe I came all the way to Germany just to see the two finest Bavarian hams I've seen all week. Anyways, let's get to the scarves. I kind of like him around the office, to be honest, because he does point out my great ass. He moved his right hand, palmed down in quick circles above the stacks. I mean, what? Excuse me? He was Dutch. His hand slammed down on one stack, and he shouted,

This phony baloney, this stuff belong. This phony baloney. He was very excitable. As a control set, the detective had placed photos from a completely unrelated case, and Peter had sniffed them out immediately. He turned back, yeah. Literally sniffed them out. He turned back to his work, and slammed his hand down again on another stack, and said,

This one, this top one, show dead woman legs apart. I see here, one hands up, one down. Funny thing, here I show you, it's like this. He got on the floor, rolled on his back, spread his legs, crooked one knee, put one arm up, one down, turned his face sideways with a slight grimace on his face, and said, He's this, and he's raping me, and he's raping me. The photograph was of Beverly Simon, who was in the exact position that Peter now lay on the floor. And he did the position before seeing the photo.

He continued. Okay, give me stockings. He rubbed the stockings scarves and blouses of the dead woman. I feel as a man who killed. I see him, he, not too big, five feet, seven, eight. He very 130 or 40 pounds, spitsy nose, something was wrong with his thumb, no feeling, bad skin, something. He have scar on left arm.

I see me, he come from hospital, got a little asian. A little asian was emulated into a... I see man, he come from hospital, send down basement, he was shtick. He was shtick first to switch arounds of room and break curtains. Then he put shtick in vagina and he masturbate. I'm not sure she did yet. He, so he just described every man, every Italian man in Boston. What's the problem?

Five foot, eight bad skin? Anybody who's like, you know, you see open vagina and you just kind of want to play with like a stick, like it's a dead frog. Oh, sure, yeah, that's how people play with those. No, no, I see masturbation. Sperm on the blanket. What was that on the blanket? Sperm.

It's a sperm, you know, it's just tiny tadpoles. It's in the milk that comes from your peepee sink. Oh, yeah, sperm, yeah, yeah. Man violent, I see bandages. He have pain in head. He hear things, he put the bandages on head for pain. Give me towel, I show you. After procuring a towel, Peter tied it tightly around his head and said,

This is what he do. He threw himself to the floor and thrashed about, flailing his arms, crying in a piercing voice. This is what I see so clear. That's after he got back to his feet. He loved shoes. He loved shoes. When asked why he loved shoes, Peter said,

I don't know. Maybe he masturbated shoes. He wash hands in toilet. Never take baths. Always wash hands in toilet. I see priest. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He needs that priest.

He doctor from hospital. Oh, no, no, no, no doctor. He look like priest. He dress like priest. Uh-oh. Uh-huh. Continue, continue. He speak French, English.

I hear French accent. He talk like girl. He like this. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Goddamn.

This is no good son of a bitch. He's a perfect. Oh, my. And Peter's wrist went limp as he imitated an obvious homosexual. He's gay. He's gay. Uh-huh. And you should know.

And he bring a noodle to me and oh, I shot the noodles like they are a bunch of dicks. I see. I mean, immediately following every time this man goes on one of his rampages, he has to be like, do you think they bought that bullshit? Also,

I mean, like you just dumping down Gatorade down his throat as he does the full act. That's a great psychic act though. Right. Oh yeah. Absolutely. All right. So remember in the first episode with Mr.

Gordon, the Lispy psychic, the Lispy local psychic, he fingered Arnold Wallace for the crimes. I bet he did. Yeah. Arnold Wallace was actually a very good suspect for crimes. Right.

And remember. Arnold Wallace, of course, he had the low IQ. The low IQ. Who escaped or was sort of allowed to leave the mental facilities. Killed his mother, all that type of shit.

Yeah. He is an extremely good suspect for the older ladies. The younger ladies, however, might be the work of one Thomas O'Brien. Okay. Not his real name, but Thomas O'Brien, the officers, they handed Peter a note,

a letter written by a man, because they're looking into the hospital connection. The hospital connection is still very much at the forefront of the BPD's minds, because if you'll remember, there are a ton of hospital connections in a lot of these cases. So he gave Peter, Mr. Herkos, the letter written by this guy,

a very bizarre letter. It was written in the Boston School of Nursing, and it was pretty much just asking them if they had a dating service for him to meet a nurse he could marry. Cool. I mean, this man was way ahead of his time. It's all about, yeah,

because he could have started NurseDate.com if this was during the Silicon Valley bubble. And if there isn't a NurseDate.com, which I don't believe that there currently is, please get one, I would love to go on that day with the nurse. Yeah, nurses are wonderful people with big hearts who do nothing but take care of your parents

after you don't want to talk to them anymore. Yeah, he said in the letter, my reason for writing now is to say that I am a bachelor and for some long time, I've wanted to meet a good Catholic nurse who might have graduated from nursing school in 1950. Perhaps while interviewing,

I might see a nurse who might like me as much as I'd like her, and if so, we could begin a friendship that might lead to an affair. I'd be glad to call at the office to see you about this if you wish at any rate. May I hear from you? If you'd like to,

you could call Dr. Richard H. Wright of 1190 Beacon Street in Brookline. He has known me for many years with every best wish I am. I hate to say this Barbara, but do you notice that the envelope seems to be stuck together with like a funny kind of glue? Like a glue?

There's like a funny glue in there. Does it smell like glue? No, it smells like ammonia and peaches. Oh, that's straight up. Come on there. That is good. No, I smelled it before. Herb.

Herb before he passed. Yeah, that smells like his underwear. He used to make that glue. Yeah. So Peter grabbed the letter, crumpled it up in his hand, and said, by God, son of a bitch,

he do it. He is his heaven. He is the murderer. Oh, he's just looking for love. I have sympathy for this poor lonely bastard. Well, let's look at Thomas O'Brien just a little bit. He was a man in his 50s with a history of mental illness.

He had briefly been in the monastic order. That's the priest's connection in which many of the priests spoke with a French accent. Okay. He had also worked as a door-to-door salesman selling women's shoes to nurses. Holy shit.

It's like if you say a bunch of really vague statements, they all come true. Oh, man. Show me if you think about it. Okay, priest. French shoes. He masturbated shoes. I'm just kidding.

Yeah, you know, it's very... He's dead on. So they eventually found O'Brien at a dilapidated rooming house. He was short, middle-aged, and pinched-nosed, spitsy, as Herkos called it. His voice high-pitched and effeminate,

and when he refused to talk to them and slammed the door in their faces, Peter said, Christ, he the man, he the murderer. Uh-oh, we found him. And so when they brought O'Brien in on a technicality that allowed any physician to commit anyone acting, quote,

oddly, they felt... We would not have lasted a fucking second. No, this is 1964 Boston Standard of Odd. Yeah. Now, he didn't say the N-word one time today. They found that he was no more than 130 pounds and about five feet seven, exactly like Herkos said, he had a scar on his left arm

and a thumb and the thumb on his right hand was deformed all of these details that Peter had predicted. Nubby thumb. They also found a book of yoga figures in which 11 women, the number of women murdered, had been blotted out with black ink. And in his dresser drawer,

they found a half a dozen men's scarves tied together in knots. Interesting, and I made the yoga joke on the last episode, if you recall that. So now I have a connection as well. Are you the killer? No, I'm not ageless. I wasn't in Boston in 1962.

I didn't kill the woman that looked at me all odd. You're not ageless? No. And in the same drawer as the yoga drawings, they also found a notepad with sketches of apartments with X's drawn in certain rooms in each one, which happened to correspond with the room some of the victims had been found in.

And when they asked him why he did this, he said, we'll get to that in a second. When he asked him why he did this, he said that it was a game that him and his brother played sometime. Oh, where do we kill the old ladies? Old ladies, and where do we need to go next? Yeah, I love that game.

Boston has a bunch of people who play fun games like that, like the Tartinoff's brothers. Because they were like, how ironic can we make it that a bunch of people could spend their lives taking care of their bodies, and then we kill them by blowing them up with a ball? Oh, that's so funny. And then what do people in Boston love?

They love a good crock pot. They love a good pork roast. We'll make it illegal to own one. Make it that's right. And in another connection, this is a weird one. The landlady said he took showers with his shoes on. Number one, how did she know it? Number two.

Yeah, that's number. Good number one. Good number one. Number two, bad idea. I don't know. Especially if you got suede. Suede is nearly impossible to fix if you get it wet. Leather gets all creaky and dumb.

Maybe you're wearing those old, like, the aqua feet. Do you remember those? Oh, yeah. People used to wear sandals and things like that in college where they go shower. Because everyone's coming and dumping on the floor, having sex in random stalls. It is a boarding house.

It is a dilapidated boarding house. Very dirty. Right. So he's got to wear shoes. And he's walking around and like, okay, well, I could wear my pet leathers, but that's the wearover to church. And I guess I'll wear my crocs.

If the future's bringing us sunglasses at night, but if you really have nothing to look forward to, you wear shoes in the shower. Hey, everybody around, I don't really notice anybody else wearing shoes or nothing. Guys, why don't you wear shoes? What do you mean you wanted to shower in silence? I think that dude's the Boston strangler.

I'm not a strangler! You want to see my knot collection? You want to see all the apartments that I've been in in the once? I haven't been in yet. As a man, I feel safe, but as a person who loves his mother, I'm terrified. That is funny, right? So the only problem they had with this guy

is the only real problem they had. Besides the fact that the only thing they had to go on was the word of an overly excitable Dutch clairvoyant with a cowboy sidekick, all of this evidence is very circumstantial. We never did know what Curious George's the man in the yellow hat did for a living. Yeah, he was the bodyguard to his psychic,

and he paid him in lottery numbers. And he kept saying, he's like, oh, I'm sorry, I was off this week, but next week, next week is the day! Who's the author of Curious George? Really missed the true storyline here. So he was, after two days of commitment, that was all they were legally allowed to commit him for

due to odd behavior. O'Brien was set free and walked out of the case forever. Herkos, in a strange twist, he left Boston completely satisfied with the job that he had done. He didn't finish the job. They wouldn't take my choices. I am better as I am, and I will go and try and figure out who will win the first series.

Double my money! That's where all the money's at, yeah. So two days after he left Boston, he was arrested in New York for impersonating an FBI agent when he had allegedly posed as an agent at a gas station in Milwaukee two months before. That is a movie waiting to happen about what that storyline was.

Right. There is a story to that that we need to figure out, and I'm excited about it. How do you pose as an FBI agent in 1964? You just tell somebody you're an FBI agent. Give me free gas. Give me free gas because I come from the government and if you don't, I will send you to the camp.

You bet. Oh, you bet, y'all. So the clairvoyant was posing as an FBI agent. Yeah, it said that FBI arrested him for impersonating an FBI agent. Here's a couple of things about that, though. Like I said earlier, police in general hated Herkos and people like him,

and while they couldn't prevent him from coming to Boston, they could at least discredit him, both him and the Attorney General's office, because it is important to note, the commissioner, the police commissioner in Boston was a former FBI agent. It's also said that the whole stunt was engineered by Democrats to sink Attorney General Brooks' campaign

shortly before his campaign for reelection. Which is also very interesting because Brooke, the first African-American attorney general, was also a Republican. Yes. Which is very interesting. Well, back then, it was still kind of the party of Lincoln. I don't understand the general.

There was a bit of a flipperoo with the other parties. The Republicans didn't have fucking mustaches. The Civil Rights Act kind of flipped Democrats and Republicans. Republicans was, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have time for this. It doesn't matter. But either way, it wasn't extremely rare to be a black Republican. We're all a part of a fucking reptilian hologram.

All right. I'm taking it. Not this episode, Henry. Not this episode. And furthermore, the Civil Liberties Union was making a big stink about the way O'Brien had been questioned. Apparently, his rights had been trod upon a little bit.

48 hours of what you weren't acting Boston normal. They came into my shower and I was wearing my shower shoes. And they pushed me back and forth. And they sent me to a place saying I was being odd. You know, I hadn't had a chance to eat my chocolate pudding for dessert, but I will tell you when I went into the hospital, I got chocolate pudding right away. Oh, there you go.

Thank you. That's nice. I'll be on my way. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm, uh, I'm not wearing any clothes. That's all right. At least you got your shoes on. Yeah, I always do.

Because if I don't, uh, that's when the shadows can see me. Oh, right. Okay. So the police, they were also completely out of ideas. So they returned to their own psychic, Paul Gordon, not because, not because they believed in his powers, but because of his extreme knowledge of the crime scene. Which would also probably make him a suspect as well.

It definitely made him a suspect. So the BPD brought Gordon in under the auspice of asking him more psychic information, but really looking to grill him about the crimes. Now what they suggested to him, and he completely went along with, was to drug him up. They gave him a mixture of methadrine,

which is a pharmaceutical manufactured brand of methamphetamine and sodium pentothal, a.k.a. truth serum. Well, I always like to do, when I have somebody, and I want to get his confession, is treat them in a way that will make everything they say not admissible in court. So that it's like they said nothing, even though we know what they said though.

But the one thing I'll say about meth is that if meth heads aren't anything, they're honest. They are very honest. And they do need scratch off dates. They do need scratch off dates. Oh, yes. So after a series of questions, and by the way, Herka, or not Herkas, Gordon is full of meth and sodium pentothal

at this point. So he's got both an upper and a downer in his system. The doctor in charge, because they brought in a psychiatrist to kind of lead him along, they came to the subject of Nina Nichols. And when they asked him about Nina Nichols, Gordon said, At one point in the apartment, he took off his, his clothes.

He wants to be a little boy. And the voice took on the sing-song tone of a child. To be a little boy again. To start all over again. A little boy. To be a little boy and free. So free. I do think he took the exact same cocktail a young Shirley McClain

took before she would perform. Or like how Carol Channing said she was discovered by Broadway where it's just like, they put me, brought me to his office. And he said, can you do a Russian accent? And I went, and he said the next thing he said was, can you do an Irish accent? And I went, and the next thing you know, I was in my first Broadway review.

So she just blew him. She blew the man. Good. And so the doctor asked, did he have any impulse to do something to the lower part of the woman's body? What was his interest there? He didn't try to do anything. He wants to be reborn again.

He, he played and experimented. I was thinking, how could I be born from such a thing? It just doesn't seem reasonable because it's just so close. It's tight, narrow, confined. To be reborn, I must enlarge this thing. He'd do it with whatever was necessary, whatever was handy. Broomstick, whatever. Right.

That is a, is it Ted Gunn? What's the name of the gun, the fashion artist? Oh, Tim Gunn. Tim Gunn, yeah. All of these psychics have the same exact qualities. And also, I just want to again, just remind everybody, this shit happened. Yes, yes, yes. You know what?

These are court documents we are reading from. Right. These are police statements. This is all real. You know what's so funny? This is not a Bronson Pinchot movie. Right. Oh yes, Bronson Pinchot.

We're not making any of this up. I took all of that dialogue. I took it directly from the Boston Strangler by Gerald Frank. I was about to, yeah, I was about to have to suspend disbelief. I was actually almost going into the mental mindset that I have a lot during the alien episodes, but then thank you, Henry, for clarifying that. Yeah. Again, this is reality.

And now that you snap it back into it, I'm going to say this. I'm pissed. I am pissed at the Boston Police Department. I'm embellishing a little bit, but honestly, it's just written down. I'm literally just reading what's written. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in reality, you probably just sounded like a Boston guy with a list.

Like, just like, he didn't try to do anything. He wants to be reborn again. Yeah. So he's like, Mike Tyson, which is even worse. Yeah. So over the next hour, Gordon appeared as Arnold's mother, crooning in dearments to her son. And then he did a full one man show.

He did a full like John was the ammo fucking. Yes. Yeah. Because he still, this is still the guy that is down for Arnold Wallace, the gangly grotesque man. The guy built like a murderer. Yeah. The guy built exactly like a murderer.

So he appeared as Arnold's mother, crooning in dearments to her son. And then as Gordon himself, he started speaking angrily with Arnold. And then he would become Arnold again, who would, who one day this is what Gordon said that he found an Arnold subconscious. He said he followed his mother secretly only to find that she was a prostitute. And then when he discovered that she was a prostitute, that's when he decided he would kill her. No, you would have sex with her.

You know, that's what you do in crime. No, I mean, that's, we saw the same thing with who saw his mother as a sexual. Not Ridgeway. Yeah. Gary Ridgeway would see his mom. He would see his mom. Well, he all did. Son bathing out in the backyard and he would be confused about like the sexual feelings

he was feeling. So I bet that's what it always is. Is that you see your mama dressed up as a prostitute and you've always wanted to fuck mama. And you probably could fuck mama if you bought her. But now you know that it makes you so angry to think about it that you fucking snap her neck. Don't forget, I just had a little visual error of my mom and I'm not saying these words out

loud. So I'll be safe. She was far. Oh, I am talking. Oh, I'm sorry. Really. I got in my own head there. Yeah.

It's weird that you tied the microphone cord in a weird sort of bow like not. No, I'm not the Boston strength. I did it. It just seems like it's weird. Oh, I have never seen you change. And it's like, you know, like, you may use to say that we're thinking about not being ageless. Right.

But what you were just saying works into the profile that was drawn up by James Brussels. Historically, one of the very first criminal profilers and the man who had famously came up, come up with the near perfect description of the Mad Bomber. Now, like a very quick thing about that is it was eerily uncanny is that this Mad Bomber guy had gone, you know, he had been loose for a few years. They brought in this guy, he did a profile of a man living with his sister's middle aged of a Serbian background and fucking nailed it around and wearing and wearing a double breasted suit jacket and nailed it down to the fucking suit jacket.

And so he his profile in the strangler was that the guy had an Oedipus complex and he was impotent with every other woman, but he believed that if he could destroy his mother's image, he would be free to direct his libido elsewhere. And it is very important to note that all the old ladies were said to physically resemble each other. They were they looked a lot alike. And so again, when we're talking about what we talked about last episode and what serial killers do a lot of the time is a lot of it's symbolic, a lot of the crimes are about it's

sort of like a ghost when we talk about residual hauntings about setting up the circumstances that will allow you to relive and do the things you had wanted to do that you couldn't do before because you either felt you were too chicken and now you have the strength to do it. And you're a monster. Yeah, most elderly women at some point do look alike. Yeah. It is true.

I mean you also start looking like, I mean everybody starts looking like a bulldog eventually right? Exactly. Except for that Helen Helen Mirren. Oh beautiful Helen Mirren bring her up. Every podcast we should mention her. Every elderly woman ends up looking alike because God has a type. You know.

And he loves a raisin with a hat on. He can't get enough of it. Not too much son. Not too much son. So now we're going to bring in the man who claimed to be responsible for each and every one of these murders, Albert DeSalvo. Yeah, Albert DeSalvo had like the perfect cocktail to be a rapist slash murderer. Yeah, a serial rapist definitely.

His father was a violent alcoholic. At one point he knocked out all of his wife's teeth. Another time he bent her fingers back until they broke. DeSalvo. He tortured animals as a child. He started. And also apparently too. It's like he would bring prostitutes back to their home and he would have sex with

prostitutes in the living room in front of the family Albert DeSalvo's father. Disgusting. And was yeah. It's total maniac. Jesus. And he also started shoplifting and stealing at an early age which we see again and again. But he was said to have a good relationship with his mother. No, his brother would talk about how like he would try to protect his mother.

And he also was really mindful of the other brothers and sisters. And so it's like when he started stealing, he was stealing to get money and what he would kind of do is like he would steal and then buy shit for his brothers and sisters. Which is a striking a generousness, a generosity that we don't see with other serial killers. No, it's a Robin Hood syndrome. Sort of. You know. He's still a maniac.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's still a maniac. He's still a rapist, but he's not a serial killer. And I'll tell you one thing, if that is like a sentence that describes your life, but you are a bad person. You're still a bad person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a maniac and a serial rape, but not a serial killer.

Although a pathological liar and a total con man. Yeah. But it's like, so what happened is that he was crazy. He was starting to get crazy sexual impulses when he was a kid. You talk about it as it was a burning in his stomach that he would like, and unless he did something, he would like basically drive him nuts. So he joined the army. Yeah.

To sort of like sort it all out. And so he got. After it's like the perfect time to join the army. It's after World War Two. So it's like he's not using the occupation army army in Germany. Yeah. So we get to just walk around Germany. Hang it out.

Yeah. Looking at beautiful, huge tits. And at this time, American people around the world were seen as liberators and great. We were great then. Yeah. We were awesome then. Yeah. And so he went there and he met his wife.

He met a German wife and that's when it really started manifesting itself. Yeah. He had two kids with his wife, but he was disturbingly over sexed. He said, his wife said that he wanted sex in the morning when he came home for lunch after supper and then again before sleep and on weekends, he needed her five or six times a day. And when they were out and about on the town, he'd make suggestive comments to attractive women right in front of her.

And it's so funny. I was watching a thing about her sister and she would come on and she was like, it was terrible. He would force her to have sexual intercourse with her five or six times a day. And then she would wake up and they would have sexual intercourse and then she'd go into the bathroom and he would have his, his semen all over the towels when it is. Oh man. Well, that's rude.

Good God. This guy's a real jerk. Oh, he is. He began his career. You don't use the guest towels. Yeah. Well, you don't come in the towel. Shoot into the toilet.

You're in the bathroom. Exactly. At toilet paper. Well, just shoot in the toilet or in the bathtub and rinse it out. There you go. There's a lot of different places to put your cum other than the towels. Thank you, Marcus. That is why that fella that we were previously discussing wore shoes in the shower because

he understands how gross men are. I've seen the cum swirling around the drain. I got to tell you what, I don't want it on the toenails. Definitely not. No, they're putting me back for being odd apparently. They keep putting me back in there for two days at a time. So DeSalvo began his career in serial, serial crime in a relatively low key way in 1961, just four months before the stranglings began.

So remember that if DeSalvo was the Boston Strangler, that he would have gone from this crime, which we'll get into, which is relatively, I mean, compared to the stranglings, extremely innocent to go from this crime to the, he's not innocent, but relatively to go from this crime affondling, essentially, to brutal molestation and murder. So a fondling is a far too polite of a word for when you go and grope a woman's breasts on the subway. The fondling sounds like a little duck that you just captured and you go, I'm going to raise it to be my own.

Yeah. And then every once in a while, did you just stick your fucking, your pinky up its ass? So what he would do is he'd knock on the doors of college students, usually around nine in the morning. And if a young woman came to the door, he'd say, my name, my name's Johnson. I'm from a modeling agency. My name was given to me as someone who might make a good model. And then while she didn't pose then and there, uh, Salvo said that he did have to take her

measurements and then he would produce a tape measure. And if she was really, really get that chest really, really just get it. And if she was suitable, I'll have to redo it again. It's just real weird. There's no numbers on that tape measure there. So, okay. I'm going to go if she was suitable. He would say that quote, a Mrs. Lewis from the agency would come by in a few days to

take care of the necessary paper. And so what he would do too is that he would offer the money is like $5 for the measurements and then $10 is for a picture of you cloth $15 was a picture of you in, in broad panties and $25 was for a picture of you nude. And so he would start increasing it as he was going and he'd give him a little money and then part of it, he's just jerking off to the pictures, but then he would start to coerce them into having sex with them as well by doing stuff being like, well, maybe if you do something for me, what I can do is I can go and represent you and then I can make

sure that you win first prize in the photo contest. There had to be some woman who answered the door like, you know, they call me gargantuan Becky. Hey, oh, you do think I could be a model? You know what? Actually? No, come in. Come in.

No, come in. I made you come in here. That's the day I was raped. And I was raped then and I know, you know what, I learned a lot from that day because it's, it's pretty bad. So over the period of a month, DeSalvo measured a dozen women and was eventually caught after women complained and he would get, and this is strange, you don't ever see this, DeSalvo would gain three different names over his life of crime, the first of which, the measuring

man. And again, he's called the measuring man, but then he gets picked up and again, he's basically given a slap on the wrist and let go for some reason and they didn't list, that's a part of why he didn't originally show up when they were going through the, the crime, like going through all the sex offenders in Boston when they were trying to begin the, the investigation for bosses stranglers is because they dropped the charge of lewdness from his account. So it's basically dropped the charge.

And so he was not officially a sex offender, even though he molested and essentially raped like 15 women. How many people does it take to come forward and be like, this guy is obviously doing it? Ask Bill Cosby. I tell you, it seems like the magic number is going to be 24, you see. All right. That is episode. What are we on?

Are we in the middle of the summer right now? I didn't do it. Yes. I did do it last week. Yeah. That was pretty good though. It shows some restraint on your part. Very nice.

So DeSalvo, he wouldn't be caught for a crime again until November of 1964. Remember the stranglings were 1961 and 1962. He was arrested in 1964 after he had appeared at a woman's apartment wearing green slacks. He broke in while the victim was sleeping, woke her up and said, don't worry, I'm a detective. Were these elderly women, young women, middle-aged? Young. Yeah, these are all young attractive women.

And the way these crimes go, and this is after the Boston Strangler murders. Yes. And the way these crimes pan out are very different than the Boston Strangler murders, where it's like he basically walks in, he puts a knife to the throat, he puts her underwear in her mouth, and then he ties her up with her ankles, her husband's pajamas, he ties each ankle to one opposite bed post, and then he rapes her, and then apologizes and then leaves. Yeah.

And the woman apologized. He apologized. Yeah, he said, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. Well, this is awkward. I gotta go. Oh my God. What a piece of shit this guy.

So the woman got a good look at DeSalvo, so a police sketch was drawn. And when it went out, within six hours, got the attention of detectives in Connecticut, who had reports of a similar looking man committing rapes in the exact same way. Committed four in one day. Four in one day. They called him the Green Man, because he wore green work pants. Before it was over, it was determined that DeSalvo had raped over 300 women in four different states.

And CBS was like, hey, do you want a sitcom? That's kind of a funny joke. It worked for me, I just direct my way to success you see. So while he was awaiting trial, DeSalvo was given a mental evaluation to see if he was competent to stand trial. And this evaluation was done before he ever copped the Strangler crimes. And while the psychiatrist did find feelings of contempt for his father and an unmistakable hatred of women, they found nothing that would suggest that he had anything close to the

profile that Brussels had made, no rage towards his mother, no edifice complex, and definitely no problems of potency. And the other thing, as this went down, he went to his sister's house, basically. When he found out they were looking for him, he went to his sister's house and he's like, you got it. It's like, you guys need to help me. I'm in a lot of trouble. And she's like, what'd you do?

And he started crying. And he's like, I broke into this lady's house and she was so scared, she died of a heart attack and now they're trying to get me from murder. And so she was like, you've got to turn yourself in if they're looking for you. They'd try to drive to the police station. And she said, people are watching, cops are starting to trail them because they get the license plate of his car, right? And so he drops, basically he's like, I got to go, I got to go.

He jumps out of the car and begins a foot chase, cops chase after him. And the way he gets caught is that a cop drops his gun, Albert Savos stops, finds the gun and gives it back to him and they arrest him there on the street. Right. And that's sort of a kind of a John Wayne, Gacy moment when Gacy had the cops trailing him, but he just went to drop off some joints in his body's place. So it was so retarded. So he just, oh, here you go.

You might want this to shoot me later. So DeSalvo was found incompetent to stand trial. And so he was committed to Bridgewater State Mental Hospital, where our friend Arnold Wallace was being held. So this next part, some of this analysis that we're about to go through, I got this from this book called Popular Crime by Bill James. It is one of the best books about true crime writing that I have ever, that's what it's all about.

It's all about true crime writing and true crime reporting. And it is highly fucking recommended. It's one of the top on the reading list. So yeah, check out Popular Crime by Bill James. So in March of 1965, Albert DeSalvo started telling people that he had committed the murders. Because that's what he kept saying too, is he started asking around. He just started going like, it's like, huh, I bet whoever's at Boston Strangle would make a lot of money off a case like this.

And like saying stuff to the cops like, well, wait, do you get a load of the other things that maybe I did, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So we're dealing with now DeSalvo, he will be incarcerated for the majority of his life at this point. Right? He's already in the stand. No, he kept being bounced out.

Yeah. Every time he'd get arrested. It was like small petty crimes. And he never went to prison. But when he confessed for the murder, he was incarcerated, right? He was at Bridgewater. Okay. So what I'm asking is, and what I'm saying is rapists get treated the worst out of anybody

in a prison system. If he cops to being the Boston Strangler, now he's a murderer. Yes. Oh, it bumps your class. Right. So this is a better position for him to be in, in the institution that he's currently living in. There's a lot of things.

And they talk about too, and he became, this is what him George Nassar started talking about at the, at the Bridgewater State Mental Hospital. Yeah. Was it about how like? George Nassar was his inmate. Is it? Not his inmate, roommate. Roommate.

Yeah. Was it a roommate? Is it cellmate? Yeah. Cellmate. Yeah. Roommate. They weren't splitting utilities.

Well, it was, it's Bridgewater. It is a hospital for the criminally insane, but you know, you're going to get a room rather than a cell. Exactly. And so now we start going to be like, well, if I'm going to be in crime for the rest of my life for being the green man, then why don't I try to make some money for my family by also being the Boston Strangler and selling the rights to my story? This is before the, I believe John Wayne Gacy is the reason that they base that law off

of you can't make money if, if you're a prisoner, you can't make money off your art or a benefit off your crimes. Right. Right. So George Nassar, he was the client of a young hot shot lawyer that was looking to make a name for himself, F. Lee Bailey. Now he's got a tomato head. F. Lee Bailey represented Patty Hurst and O.J. Simpson.

Yeah. It is phenomenal. And he has, he is a magnet to the worst people on earth. He is, but I would say he is among the country's most prolific and successful criminal law lawyer. He made himself, uh, Albert DeSalvo's lawyer. He went and found Albert DeSalvo when the case broke. He went and was there.

Like they didn't meet F. Lee Bailey until Albert DeSalvo's sister got a call from him just being like, you're going to want to leave town. You're going to want to change your name. You're going to take your kids and go to another place. He's like, I got this. So he is the same complex probably as Gacy's lawyer did who compared himself to John Adams. Oh, no, no, no, no. F. Lee Bailey was, because the guy who, uh, Emirante, he saw himself as an American hero.

An American hero. Like he saw himself as like a big, uh, like, uh, just a guy that everyone should love. F. Lee Bailey wanted nothing but money and fame. That is all he wanted. He almost more honest. Yeah. I mean, if you're a lawyer, that's what lawyers, that would be the motivation for being a lawyer such as his.

And Bailey, he had just been handed the most wanted man in America. Right. He had just completely, he had just been plot like a million dollar case had been plopped in his lap, million dollars as far as get his name out there. Oh yeah. He wasn't going to make any money from DeSalvo, but he was going to make a lot of money, uh, from the case itself. He tried to, he negotiated a deal with the bottom Lee commission and this, the deal

that F. Lee Bailey made with the bottom Lee commission is possibly the most bizarre deal that I've ever seen in my history research. Uh, he told the bottom Lee commission that he'd bring them the Boston strangler if they'd agree to not use the information to prosecute him for the Boston strangler. Cause the idea was to keep him from being executed. Yeah. They didn't want him to be, they didn't want to get the death sentence. So the way he kind of figured it is, is like, not only will you be able to call him the

Boston strangler and pin all the crimes at him, but what we can't do is use that as evidence because they will give him the death sentence, which you can do is coldly book him as a serial rapist and he will be behind jail forever, but we need to keep him alive because that's where the book rights come from. That's where the interview rights come from. That's where all the movie deals come from because if then you're dealing with the family instead of dealing with the fixed victim rights association. Well, I mean, it's literally whatever, it's what, uh, what specter did with all these

women, uh, you know, with all the musicians, make them a star, benefit from them and, uh, you know, that just throw them away, you know, don't even care about them. Exactly. What they were planning to do is that they were planning to use the Boston strangler, uh, confession, they were planning to use this confession as evidence, but not in the case of the Boston strangler, but rather in the green man rapings, uh, and they were planning to use the Boston strangler murders as evidence that he was certifiably insane because they would be put back to a hospital and he could get the rehabilitation that he said that he

quote unquote wanted, uh, and that he would just kind of sit in a place safe forever. Yeah. And the ideal, uh, F. Lee Bailey would get the movie rights and the book rights of which he did make, uh, there was a movie called the Boston strangler. I think in 2008, it's a, no, no, there was one in the, uh, there was one in the sixties. Oh, really? There was one before, uh, DeSalvo died, uh, there was one made with Jerry Lewis. I love that Jerry.

Strangler bungles his way through the Louvre and it's the Boston strangler trying to rape old women, but instead he just does all these sort of fun psychics falling through balls of oranges and shit. It's great. I love that classic Jerry Lewis feature. It was a 1968 movie with a Tony Curtis, Henry Fonda and Tony Curtis and George Kennedy from naked guns. So he got some massive stars for it.

Huge stars. And this also, this movie also submitted in the public's mind, uh, the idea that Albert DeSalvo was the Boston strangler. Right. Media is used very effectively by the police department in order to solidify the, the, the conclusions they want us to know. Oh, absolutely. Of course.

Always. And they had a lot to gain from DeSalvo going down as well from wrapping this whole thing up. I'm not intended. Attorney General Brooke, if you'll remain in a pretty little granny knot, huh? And then they wrap it up and then they fuck with it's vagina with the broken furball. Well, you're taking, it was a pun that he was, he was making a pun, but then you just make it a little bit.

Oh wow. I was making it fun. Different for me. You were doing something for yourself there. So Attorney General Brooke, he was gearing up for a Senate run and having wrapped up one of the biggest criminal cases in American history will go a long way towards helping his chances. And he would eventually be elected the first black senator popularly elected to the Senate

in the United States. It's so classic. A part of the reason why DeSalvo got, he got convicted of being the Boston stranglers because of his confessions. He had many, many deeply, what's the term, detailed confessions that he said that they were like, he described the, the crime scene better than I could. And I mean, I got to tell you, I was hardly paying attention. He didn't mention the nice oak table though.

I loved it. Oh, it's nice. Nice and brown table. Nice brown. But I mean, he was fed these stories just so we can refute that. Yes. A substantial amount of the information about the crimes that Albert had, what had been in newspapers over the years, it had been heavily reported.

Albert had a photographic memory. So he was able to remember all this shit. And he had also, and during one of his descriptions, you could compare his description of the house to the description of that the newspaper gave of the crime scene. And the way they, the way they discovered his, his photogenic memory, which is really interesting is that he basically, they wanted to see how good his memory was. And they had a room full of people. They had a big entry room and they had to come in and he did like a confession session

or whatever it is. And then he leaves. Next day they had everybody sitting in different positions wearing different clothes and they came into the very top. And they're like, do you remember where Stephen was sitting and where, you know, Bailey was sitting and Stephanie and he picked everything out and remembered what they were wearing as well. So his brain was just a portfolio of hell.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would, if you are a serial rapist, I mean, you look at someone like Dommer who just drank himself to forget that he just made a human zombie the night before. So he's like, oh, I better drink again. Oh, no, no, he had images of somebody crying in my bed as I cut his penis off. He's different, though, is that he had a sexual impulse he couldn't control and so he felt totally validated.

Yeah. And so that's what's really fucked up. It's not like he was to torture fucking madman alone in an apartment. He thought that he was, he just couldn't control himself. He was impulse driven. But now you did. So he paired that. So his photographic memory, look at all of these super detailed fucking court cases that

were in the newspaper. And he'd also been in Bridgewater, if you remember, been in Bridgewater with Arnold Wallace and had ample time to talk to Wallace and gain a lot of information about the crimes. And here's another thing by the time to Salvo got to court, a lot of the people that have been working on the Bottomley Commission had quit and were now working with F. Lee Bailey. And another thing, too, is that when he started recounting the details of what you remember from the crimes, he also remembered some certain misinformation that was in those articles. Like one specific one I forgot was that he kept calling Joanne Graff, Joan.

Because in the newspaper, when they put out the picture of her, like when they did the announcement of her murder, they accidentally called her Joan Graff. Which is proof that he probably wasn't at, at, in these murders. Probably not. And it was also said at that, if you'll remember, there was a neighbor said that there was a strange man that had come looking for her and she named, he named Joanne Graff by name. He said, is Joanne Graff here, Graff here? So that is another inconsistent.

So they do a lot of, and basically they showed his picture to a bunch of people who said they see the Sandy Blonde man in the green pants that showed, when he showed up above Joanne's house. And also when, what was the other one when he was spotted? And it was like, they, they spotted him a couple of times and they showed him the picture of Albert DeSalvo. And it was like, that's not the guy I saw. Well, between the reelection of Brooks and, and F. Lee Bailey wanted to make some cash

and, and get his profile out there and then DeSalvo wanted to be a murderer as opposed to a rapist. And everyone had something to benefit from him confessing to this crime. No, we have had, and at the time there was no, I mean, we didn't really do DNA testing, but they didn't find anything that matched his blood because he didn't leave any blood behind. So they had no hard evidence. It was all circumstantial shit.

At the time. Yes. And, but now it had, at the time there was no physical evidence linking DeSalvo to the crimes other than a palm print on one of the, there was no physical evidence whatsoever. There was a palm print on one of the televisions in one of the, at one of the crime scenes. But that did not match DeSalvo at all. However, in 2013, just a couple of years ago, they did do a DNA test on Mary Sullivan's body and did find that it was a 99.99% match to Albert DeSalvo.

So maybe he did kill Mary Sullivan. So it is, but I mean, it is possible and actually very probable that he did kill Mary Sullivan, but he is without a doubt, not the Boston Strangler. And the Boston Strangler went free. So yeah, so it does seem that, yeah, he may have, he may have killed Mary and all, but you know what? I'm not 100% convinced that those DNA results weren't faked. Okay, why?

Because I don't think the city of Boston could admit a mistake even if it was 50 years later. And I think if there are still people with a lot to lose from this, F. Lee Bailey has been saying for years and years and years, like he is definitely the Strangler. He, I will stake my reputation on it and F. Lee Bailey is still out and about doing shit. So if the Boston Strangler case goes aside, and F. Lee Bailey is going to take a big hit to his reputation. And there's also a bunch of things that were connected back to this that are very interesting. Number one, because the original, they had did a DNA test in 2002, 2001 that had failed.

They used remnants from Mary Sullivan's corpse, correct? And then they used stuff from, from him, really? Okay, what, what reaction was that? Henry stopped in his tracks. Really? Pubicare, yes, pubicare. Yes, her pubicare, yes. Yeah.

Do you want to go, do you want to go down to the BPD and be like, well, I'll look all your evidence. Hey, you got any DNA? I'll look some pubicare. I'll look some pubicare. Yeah, I'll look it for you. But, and then they used Albert DeSalvo's body, correct? No, they, in 2001 they used DNA from his brother.

And they, there was a mismatch and it didn't work out. This time what they did was they matched the same samples from Mary Sullivan and then they used samples that they had said that they had from Albert DeSalvo from the crime scenes, right? Yes. That connected them to. Which they did, which by the way, the BPD in 2001 refused to give them. Absolutely.

Because now you look at it, it's just like, so now they did this thing and they said that they have the proper stuff to test now, but they had piles of Albert DeSalvo's semen. Yeah. They already had it. Piles and piles of it. It's like he's been, he had been a rapist for, for four years. Right. And they had all of these samples.

So it's like if they had wanted to, at any point, tie him to it officially they could have. Right. Anytime. And I'm not always, that's kind of a conspiratorial view of it, but I think that it's interesting. Also is what we talk about with Susan Kelly. Susan Kelly wrote a book called The Boston Stranglers, which is, which is really cool the way it breaks out.

Basically it supports Marcus's theory that there were many killers. And one of the things is that Albert DeSalvo was, so one, faster to the end real quick, he was stabbed to death in jail in 1973. Yes. And they basically got, started receiving calls, F. Lee Bailey and his family, so receiving calls being like, you got to get me out of here. You got to get me out of here. I got there.

I got to talk to you guys about something. There's something for you guys to know about the Boston Strangler case and it's getting really hard for me in here. And he started believing there was a conspiracy among guards and fellow inmates to try to kill him. I'm sure that there was. It's the same thing that happened with Dahmer. When you put someone in, in a general population who has that kind of a fame behind them, they're

going to get murdered. Yeah. Absolutely. And he was sentenced to Salvo. This is amazing. He was never charged, indicted, accused, or prosecuted by any court for any action connected with the Boston. He was never convicted for the killing.

Never convicted for. There were no eyewitness testimonies, testimonies placing to Salvo anywhere near the crime scenes. Yes, neighbors did report suspicious characters, but none of the witnesses when they brought them in say like, is this the guy? None of them said to Salvo was their guy. And in fact, one possible survivor of the attacks said that to Salvo definitely wasn't the man who attacked her. No.

That George Nasser looked a hell of a lot more like him than Alper DeSive. There you go. Again, the police sketch of the strangler, the strangler bore no resemblance whatsoever to DeSalvo. And his psychiatrist at Bridgewater, he didn't believe anything DeSalvo said. He said, no, of course, he's like, you can't, oh, you got a confession from fucking liar pants? No.

Don't believe him. Liar pants. I cannot believe they called him liar pants. Absolutely. I prefer serial rapist. Yes. No, but it's true. His psychotherapist there said that it was he had all the trademarks of a sociopath, including

a tremendous insecurity problem. He said you couldn't believe a word that he said because he would say anything he took for him to get him intention or to feel more important. And then also you have George Nasser and him, they shared a relationship in jail in which they talked openly about the amount of money that one could get from having the Boston Strangler case. It was the case that he asked Effley Bailey when he called Effley Bailey. How much money can we get for that?

One of the very first things. How can we make money out of this? Right. And possibly George Nasser backed him up because George Nasser had an IQ level of next to genius level who could possibly have been manipulating this man who's kind of simple and retarded kind of Boston guy who just kind of does whatever. And he was just like, look, I'm going to make it. And then you also have the other, you have Andrew Arnold Wallace.

And then you have Arnold Wallace who also he possibly could have shared stories with while they were sharing together. So he could have built this whole thing together in order to secure security for his family. And you said that DeSalvo wasn't that bright. I was like, yes, that is very true because DeSalvo was arrested numerous times for dumb fucking mistakes. That's how he used to get picked up for the shoplifting, for the robbery, for all that sorts of shit.

So the fact that he might be able to pull off 11 murders without leaving a single clue behind without fucking up once is insane. The only things that really pointed to DeSalvo being the strangler is that one, he said he did it. And two, the cop said he did it. That's it. Those are two pretty big points in the court of criminal justice system. But then again, that makes us closer to the Russians than anything else is because everything

is about confession there. We're all about the Russians. And the Bottomley Commission said that he knew things that only the killer would know. But in Susan Kelly's analysis, she said that if you actually read the transcripts, his confession is filled with so many inaccuracies that it actually proves that he wasn't the strangler. That he didn't commit the crime. Absolutely.

And there's a lot of stuff like this where it's like, if he is the murderer, there's an exception to many things that we already know about serial killers. So they interviewed 25,000 people in connection with the homicides. Not once ever did he show up, did Alberto Savo ever show up in that discussion? Never. Gary Ridgway showed up so many times when they were investigating the Green River Killers. The name keeps coming up because people in the circle start talking about their friend who's been weird for fucking years and years.

And then again, normal pattern of serial murders is that of escalation and recklessness. It seems like this thing is that he went big up top. Yeah. Like if he had gone from, well, it was the measuring man, then the Boston Strangler, and then Green River. The way I heard it described is like if he went from two to a ten to a four, like comparatively, it doesn't make any sense as the patterns of escalation that we see, it is completely different.

Are there any evidence from other states of similar activity that happened in Boston, like the original Boston strangling with a tire? I mean, because like you were saying in the beginning, which I think is the beginning of part one, this is probably the end of somebody else's serial killing. I don't know if there were any other, if there was in any other states or anything like that. Like I don't know. No one was talking back then at all.

Yeah. Because no one was talking to each other back then. And if you were, and probably the record keeping is probably horrendous from that time. Oh, yeah. And it's also like, it's much more likely that this was the end, like the big murders up top, because the most active period was four murders in the first two weeks. It never begins with the active period. No, unless it's a spree killing.

Yeah, unless it's a spree killing, which this definitely was not. And so another thing about it is that DeSalvo, his rapes were committed over hundreds of miles in several states, while the stranglings were mostly in Boston, especially the old ladies within walking distance of each other. Did DeSalvo have a Metro card? Well the fucking Boston Strangler definitely had it. Right. Had to have.

But the problem is that he talked about, like, we'll talk about that soon here, but he was saying like, he specifically said, I didn't take the train. I drove everywhere I committed the crimes, which is ridiculous. Yeah. He said he drove everywhere. And also these neighborhoods apparently notoriously hard to park in. Oh, look at that. So that was really the most stressful thing.

It's so difficult to rape. Parking. Yeah. Just talking about Los Angeles. Oh my goodness. Also he was a criminal fuckup. He was a dude that did a bunch of petty crimes. He got caught for every single thing that he did.

It was the legal system that kept putting him back on the streets. It's sort of the Charles Manson effect, where you make him a god in reality, Manson constantly. Constantly messed up. Oh yeah, absolutely. And another thing that deviates from the pattern is that DeSalvo committed his sex crimes against attractive young women in the morning while the Boston Strangler murders were committed against middle-aged to elderly women in the afternoon. And there was one other detail about the women, and this is a real strange one.

They were all done on the weekend, except for two. One of them was done on December 5th, which is just another regular day. The other one was done on Flag Day, which was a national holiday. So it implies that the person had a day job. And that was the same thing with BTK, when they sort of kind of knew that he worked for the city probably. Yeah, because he obviously, yeah, he has some sort of, or he has some way where he can just go into people's homes and nobody knows why he's in their homes, because he knows the

layout. Right. Yep. So, I mean, you get to why he confessed. Of course he wanted the money, he wanted the fame. But the last thing we heard from DeSalvo before he died was that he was bitchin' and moanin' about not getting any of the money that he was promised. So maybe now when he realized that he wasn't about to get paid out big, he was like, well,

I fuckin' gotta stop being a Boston Strangler, because people are really harassing me on the inside. Yeah, yeah, yeah, people don't like the fact that I'm the Boston Strangler. So he said, so it's said that he was about to recant his crimes. And you remember, this is only seven years after he had been caught or after he had confessed. So there were a lot of people with a lot to lose. Brooke, he was just gearing up for a second Senate run. Of course, if DeSalvo, that would be, if he recanted, that would be a huge black guy

on the part of the Boston Police Department. So DeSalvo, he requested protective custody and was sent into the prison infirmary. He was stabbed to death. While he was asleep. He was asleep and there were no defensive wounds suggesting that he was drugged the fuck up. So he got murdered by the state. And not only that, but the killer would have had to have gone past three different checkpoints

covered in blood because it was a brutal, nasty slaying. So Albert DeSalvo died in prison, probably about to recant a victim of political assassination. And it reminds me. Sort of an Oswald situation. The same thing, yeah, it said that Kurt Vonnegut quote that I love, we are who we pretend to be. So be careful who you pretend to be. Yeah.

That's why I only wear bowling shoes. And one of these days, I'm going to be in the PBA. And so I want to end this whole thing with a poem from Albert DeSalvo himself lamenting, sometimes it's not so easy being a Boston strength. Not so easy being green and falling in love with Miss Piggy. It's not so easy strangling women and murdering and raping them here is the story of the strangler yet untold, the man who claims he murdered 13 women, young and old, the elusive strangler. There he goes, where his one law sends him, no one knows.

He struck within the light of day, leaving not one clue astray, the young and old their lips are sealed, their secret of death never revealed. Even though he is sick in mind, he's much too clever for the police to find. To reveal his secret will bring him fame, but burden his family with unwanted shame. Today he sets in a prison cell deep inside only a secret he can tell. People everywhere are still in doubt. Is the strangler in prison or roaming about standing ovation? He really wrote that poem.

Very good for DeSalvo, I will say. All of this, just look back, think about your favorite moments in this episode and remember that it's all real. It's all true. It's unbelievable. It's all true. So we've had two psychics, four suspects, I mean really this story runs the gamut. This is one of my favorite stories that I've ever, this was a fantastic story, this is

so much fun. We got to the bottom of it with all sleuthing skills Marcus. We got to the bottomly of it, commission. It's perfect. No, everything's been solved. I mean literally there's more questions now than ever, but nonetheless, the last podcast on the left got to the bottom of another caper and we're a real Scooby-Doo bunch. The best solutions only provide more questions.

That's when they're the wrong solutions. Is that another carbonic quote? Chartre said that. I love Chartre. Man, thank you guys so much for listening. Not Chartre, but Chartre. Chartre. Yeah, he could fart the alphabet.

Oh, I love that. Yeah, it all kind of goes there on the wall. But he can only do it when he was covered in shit. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he can make a great bee. With poop. Poop-a-bee.

Hail Satan. And how gay. If you did well this week or someone right for you, just know for a fact that Satan did it. You didn't do it. No, you did it. You built it. Through him with him.

No, you did it. Taylor. Go to cavecomedyradio.com slash last podcast on the left for your last podcast on the left t-shirt. Follow us on Twitter. At Henry loves you at Marcus Parks and at Ben Kissle. And be sure to rate and review us on iTunes. And we're coming to the United Kingdom on March 23rd.

It's almost there, man. We're almost fucking there. It's almost time. Get your tickets now. Please come and hang out with us and fucking get drunk with us and show us where it's gonna go. You're being sad. You're being sad.

I'm excited to meet our friends out there. It's gonna, it will be an unbelievably great time and I promise you we're actually better than we are in real, in real life, we're better than we are on the show, so it's not gonna be disappointed. That's weird. It's weird. It's a hard sell. See, that's kind of, I mean, that's sort of disappointing in its own way.

Well, what? What? What I'm saying is this. Ben was four hours late today. I was not four hours late. I was one hour late. You were two hours late. One and a half hours late.

Hail Satan. Hail me, please. In the man. Go to the legend. Yeah. Go on supporting all the shows here on CCR. It is really not that weird to wear shoes in the shower. Yeah.

Hail yourselves. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to cavecomedyradio.com. And one last tiny little thing. We've got an official Twitter now at LP on the left. We're gonna be posting tons of bonus material on there. You'll get previews for upcoming episodes. You'll get to see some of the research that me and Henry and Ben do every week. We get in some spooky, crazy music that I listen to while I research.

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