Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 162: Axe Murderers Part One - Horse Owner and Horse

Episode Date: February 19, 2015

In the first of our two parter on axe murders throughout history, we cover a story of a prostitute brutally murdered WITH AN AXE in olde New York and the story of Kate Webster, an Irishwoman who murdered her boss, dismembered the body, and threw the whole mess into the River Thames.

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk on the left That's when the cannibalism started Are you jumping on mattresses you see on the sidewalk? Oh, that's all I do. Yeah hoping they have bed bugs Oh, yeah, I open it up It's love in there I open up garbage cans and love in there and then sometimes there's a homeless man in there and he's just like I Killed love 20 years ago, and I'm like hell. Yeah, man. Let's go and I go I buy I'm a whopper And then we drink a bunch of vermouth and a bus stop together. Haha, Los Angeles was great. I

Really had a great time. It's fun to be single Mangle in you see the lights of Hollywood the Hollywood sign, baby Them city streets run go tell you know the big thing about Hollywood is it? Yeah? I'm laying down the gutter. I'm staring up looking at the stars And what I mean is I'm literally standing up, and I see fucking Christian or there And I am physically laying in street. Yeah. Well, it just sounds like a wonderful time It's an alternative time That's what I'll say about my life right now. Mm-hmm. I'll say yeah

And I'll be like a quick little sad story is that I somehow left a crack open in a window in my apartment When I got home last night, and it was ten o'clock. It was ten degrees outside It was ten o'clock at night by time I got back from the airport I got in there, and it was so cold in there. I had to sleep with my coat on. That's not bad. It's like you're camping So I grabbed the rest of my bottle of scotch, and I drank it in my coat in my bed Things are fine Good nothing homeless about that you weren't covered in urine were you? No, I keep that in my pee-pee sack. That's what I've been calling my bladder to people on the street

I like being single Well, you're doing great with it. Should we start the show? Yeah. All right, and welcome to the show. I'm Ben Kissel That's Marcus Parks. We got to get this guy some encouragement over here to my left What's going on with you? I need I need some pep and some vigor. You know what I I Think I was really thinking down in the dark like while I was sitting here in a pit of sort of depression I started thinking about like what is it that I really want to hear about mm-hmm? You want to hear is it about do would you like to hear about the New York knickerbuckers? No NBA all-star weekend? No What could it be? I don't know. It's just straight up as many

Ladies and gentlemen last podcast on the left is back with some axe murders Oh, thank God rock and roll lives. Hail Satan sincerely no other reason to cover Besides the fact straight up it's fucking axe murder You can kill people with a knife you can shoot somebody in the face you can drown someone in a pool But you know what you can't do unless you're a super badass dude axe murder axe murder number one takes a lot of physical strength Yeah, absolutely lumberjacks do it to cut down trees. Yeah, and then these people here do it to kill their wives think about that Marcus has an entire book on axe murders

It's called with an axe and did you read it on the subway in public? I did not I kept this one in the basement That's great. Yeah, Marcus treats all of his books like alcoholics treat beer on the subway He has to put him in a brown paper bag so no one looks at him like he's breaking the law But I do but I feel like it would have been fine if you were reading with an axe But also like sharpening an axe or cleaning an axe right there could be like well, maybe Maybe he's got one of them old-timey jobs. Yeah, cuz now how many I've seen like three different smelting companies open it up in Brooklyn Since we last talked about smelting last week on the hollow moon episode. The hipsters are really getting into smelting Yeah, they boil a lot of nickel and zinc down into any sort of

Lord shaped pendants or Lord shaped belt buckles right right the new fad Yeah, the book is called with an axe. It's by H. Paul Jeffers I would definitely recommend this don't call them Jeffers cuz if you do you'll kill you with the fucking with an axe Yeah, the tagline is some rage can only be satisfied one way with an axe Oh So Rebecca you said your husband's a writer. What is he right about is it fantasy is it fiction? Always been writing all days this book about killing people with an axe Your husband must be a rock and fucking roll. We haven't had sex in a month. Oh, that's it

Yes, well, let's get into this. Let's jump in so yeah, so we're gonna be doing a case-by-case Like just covering stories. Yeah axe murder in American history. Yeah, and we're gonna start at the very we're gonna start way back We're gonna start in 1836 because this is what I'll say. I feel like axe murder was way more prevalent definitely back in time It really was in the book actually a lot of the majority of the stories are from the 1800s up until the 1950s 1940s something like that in the next episode. We have a very special lady who brings it way into the 80s Oh my god, my special lady. Mm-hmm. It's Carla Faye Tucker. We'll get to her on the next episode But this one we're gonna start off with Richard P. Robinson Dick Robinson. Mm-hmm. He was 19 on April 9th

1936 he spent the day at his job as a clerk at a dry goods emporium right here in New York City And he was looking at the big apple looking forward to an evening visiting a beautiful prostitute named Helen Jewett Hmm now one thing you got to know about Richard very good wrestler Okay, how do we know that because the book said okay also? I think he tells a lot of people if you're a very good wrestler I mean, it's hard to say on a date you want to say that the second sense be like hey, my name is Darrell and I'm a very good rest. That's creepy check, please. I need to get out of here He's about to murder me with an axe, but it's definitely the seventh fact you find out about somebody that definitely

He was a very skilled debater So he knew how to talk his way out of things because the way he did it if you didn't agree with him he just wrestled you Yeah, classic that was one of the things the Lincoln and Douglas debate They don't talk about when they just got naked and wrestled in oil Well, it was said that he had a boyishly handsome face. He was 19 so that makes sense curly golden blonde hair And he also quote cut a dashing figure in a jaunty cape and a long Spanish cloak What's a Spanish cloak? Is that the one that looks like a jailbird? Yes, like back in the day or is that or is it like kind of like the escalita like, you know, the nerds

That sort of nerd outfit. I only seen seven at seven episodes of Univision and I've never left America I think it's one of those jackets So you were only allowed to leave a conversation with a sharp 180 spin. Yeah So it's a good day to you, sir and goodbye from what Google image search tells me It's about true waist high and mostly purple. Oh, so this is very he he actually describes most hipsters That we see here in Williams. That's a prince jacket. Very nice. Yeah. Yeah, definitely a prince jacket So he was a big fan of the theater But it's true love was the company of beautiful women specifically the prostitutes at 41 Thomas Street in downtown Manhattan

He likes prostitutes. He loved prostitutes, but it was a high-class cat house It is now the site of birdbath green bakery I Can't wait to get really hammered and go down there someday this week and be like So you get the scones on sale, but we're the prostitutes. I know they're here. That's your secret item That's your menu item. I get prostitutes. I go up to one of the baker. It's like here. Come here It's our put in $20. No, I'm just a baker. I am not a prostitute What are you even referencing? What's your price?

Everybody's got a price. You are discussing one situation from over a hundred years ago the Robinson was known at 41 Thomas Street as Frank Rivers and he and Helen Jewett the prostitute in question had been seeing each other for a year at this point They had met in the lobby of a theater where Robinson had come to the rescue of Helen from the botherings of a drunken ruffian So this guy Dated a prostitute for a year his reward for saving her from the drunken ruffian Was a free pass to a fuck at a whorehouse on Dwayne Street known as the polite The play de la douche barie

The price is right needs to be run and operated by prostitutes fuck a yacht I want a bank trip on some bizarre car carnival cruise line This also probably shows a whole alternative Area of the Marvel universe where no one wants to talk about just how many over-the-costume hand jobs Spider-man must have received Like every time he did something someone would I would have done it be like thank you so much spider-man. Do you need a Hmm you need a release Oh, you want you want me to activate my other web. Well, you know with great power comes great responsibility and a huge boner

He's hanging from a building through a throat a through his dick string. I didn't know he could web through his penis that's semen So the doesn't say prostitutes now. Oh man So the relationship bloomed between the young handsome clerk and the prostitute Robinson reportedly said that he was never happier than he was When he was at the theater 1830s dude 1830s even more so theater was just like you had like a goat with a hat on and a dude farting in a barrel That they called the oh, it's the bean man. No, that was the theater There was actually a whole subset of French theater by guys who farted For money, that's great, and they would fart tunes

They would fart it was like fart and Gary on mr. Show except that was a real thing Wow Now we got these people warbling songs about being witches and shit. I think it's so much better than Shrek the musical Big old French farts Perfect, so of course Robinson took umbridge with Helen's line of work, but Robinson himself also saw other prostitutes on the side and Helen Jewett in Sense that he would dare to go see another woman traveled over to the broomstreet whorehouse where Robinson was stepping out and Broodly beat the whore that Robinson was seeing. This is the kind of woman you need that that's what I'm thinking kind of a keeper Definitely a keeper. Well, this wasn't the only blow-up that she had they of course reconciled

So she was like a like an uncontrollable prostitute. Are you telling me she was emotionally unstable in 1830s woman who was a moonlight and as a prostitute Oh, no, she was a moonlight and it was definitely her full-time. It was a full-time game. Oh, yeah, she had a name tag So of course Robinson stepped out again with another prostitute and Jewett made the first Threat she threatened to circulate a story that Robinson had caused the death of a young young girl who he wronged and then dessert it Okay, of course, he's trying to smooth this over this one because he's you know a fair he works at a dry good store But he's still a fairly well respected guy in the New York scene He tried to smooth over one respected his Yelp reviews of all the prostitutes. He thought yes Is there a prostitute Yelp out there? Back page dot-com. Yeah, okay. Yeah, they definitely rate him over there

Isn't that something so he tried to smooth it over by promising to marry her But Jewett heard that Robinson actually planned to marry a woman who wasn't a prostitute. Wouldn't you believe it? I can't that I can't fathom the idea of marrying a woman who isn't a prostitute Wow, and she sent him a letter of course the it's starting to escalate now. She sent him a letter saying I feel oh wait I feel amazing in a black blurn you up with a dad, but not with powder Is that the prostitute? Yeah. Oh, well, I can see why he paid her good. I feel amazing She was from Chicago Henry and I feel amazingly like blowing up of a date, but not with product Yeah, it's just like bad bears

I feel amazingly like blowing you up if I dared but not with powder doesn't that mean like I feel like giving you a blow job I think it's got to or sex. You know something like that for sure. I thought she was mad I don't know if it's been a guess or it like sex witches to the end of dune That's that that's that's a deep reference. That's a deep cut dude It's I think this woman only has one option to show her anger or show her happiness and that's through her vagina So she's really upset with you. She fucks you and she's really happy with you She fucks you well the thing is is that she can also do a very special move where she can run and jump up to a human's height Get your head lodged up inside of her own vagina and just snap it off

Top of a breadstick. Yep, the old Russian doll death. Yeah inside of you and then you end up dead It's called Medusa's cave. I could go there every weekend until I die Well now Robinson he gets this letter now He's got something to lose because he's got a prospective marriage on the line The woman is of higher class than he so he's looking to climb up the social ladder Right, he responded with a note that said keep quiet until I come on Saturday night And then we'll see if we cannot be better friends here after do not tell any person I shall come How's he spelling come there?

You in the middle or is it an O and it wasn't called ejaculating wasn't coming then we see it was called something like booting it out See There was a period there. It's like do not tell any person period. I shall come. Yeah. Yikes So he arrived that Saturday at 9 p.m. Jewett took him upstairs where the madam a mrs. Townsend Who will play into the story later saw him briefly before Helen store was closed and at midnight Another prostitute named Mary Stevens who was in the room across the hall was awoken by a thump Immediately followed by a low moan, and this does not sound very different than most of the sounds that would happen at a whorehouse Of course, and then a low moan. That's a problem with I mean honestly with a lot of

Murders in the case of murdering prostitutes is that that's the truth is that the struggle can sometimes sound like really intense sex I had a roommate. I had never seen gay sex before and I had a roommate in college in real life in real life In real life, and so I was in my room in college and next door to me. I heard this like Rolling around it's like They were fighting yeah, yeah, and so because they were too strong man Mm-hmm, and then I walk in there, and I knock on the door. I'm like hey what's going on in here, and they were Wow, they were it making love you but in a way that was um I don't know if I would have killed my girlfriend

Well, that's why these yeah, they know that they're with men and men can be a little bit They were straight up punching each other. It's a physical game. Very strong. Yeah strong. Yeah, I lingered there I'm happy you got to have these same experiences like a 40-year-old midwestern housewife when her friend Oh, her son always has his best friend Barry over. Hey guys, I made you my friend Okay, and then you slowly exit and pretend like you didn't see it. Yeah, they were doing the naked squirrel They gave me a wink and I left the room So the thump followed by the low moan was followed by Moment later the prostitute Marie Stevens heard Jewett's door open and closed followed by footsteps going down the hall

Opening the door for the sex. I'll see you soon Okay Opening the door she saw a tall man in a long cloak with a lamp walking down the stairs Oh, or she thought nothing of it went back to sleep two hours later though The madam mrs. Townsend found Helen's lamp downstairs as she returned it to Helen's room She noticed that the door was open and she could not she noticed a burning smell coming from inside Hmm and when she opened the door wider the back draft caused the room to erupt in the flame I feel like all of New York City was just on the verge of exploding in the

1830s yes, everybody's talking about cuz that's like during the times of like tenement houses, too Oh, yeah, and the Lower East Side was literally just jam-packed with as many Italians all just laying on top of each other and Jews people in Italians absolutely like a giant stinky lasagna it was and isn't wasn't Was a was Elbert fish Roman the streets around this time as well. No, he was early 1900s early 1900s Okay, it was terrible then so you can imagine what it was like in the 1830s. Oh, yeah, so what's the stinky? Oh, yeah, oh, I think awful. Oh, yeah, so once the fire was a sting extinguished They found Helen Jewett dead on the floor She was clad in her nightgown with one arm raised over her head while the other laid across her chest and the left side of her

Body from her waist up was Completely charred and her left temple had been struck three times with an axe Oh, are you a tree bitch? Oh my goodness. Well, he definitely chopped her down. Oh, yeah, he definitely chopped her down So eventually Robinson was tracked down. He wasn't that hard of a guy to find he had given some information out at the whore house I work at a dry goods store. My name is Frank Rivers. I good, so you know like oats and rope Right dry good. Yes. Hello. He has dry goods. Have you seen it sand? It's better than working at the wet store Oh, that's her. Yeah, I mean because the boots would rot through boots rot the bread's all wet, you know It's never very good

So he was eventually tracked down and his roommate James to when he shook him to wake him up Robinson exclaimed this is an odd business and then the police arrested him for what the Shouting in a closed room. Oh, I see that was a crime back in the day You could kill a prostitute. Oh sure, but you get a death penalty for shouting in a closed room I agree with it. Never mind for farting on like on a campfire. We'll save it for the stage, you know, don't waste those farts So in Robinson's backyard they found a bloodstained hatchet and it was surmised that do it mine That is not my blood. That's mine. Oh, that's pie. Oh, that's pie all over that. Did you know I work at a dry goods store? Okay, so it surmised that Jewett had been killed instantly by the first blow to the head

Which came as a surprise since there were no signs of struggle whatsoever And the fire had been set to conceal the murder and the other two thwacks were just made to ensure that she was fucking dead Sure, sure. What do you say when you're about to swing an axe inside of a ladies temple there? I mean you could yell the classic golf like for yeah, or you can I mean hey, you'll never need a hat again. Oh look at that It's really about saving money at the end of the day. Yeah, they're permanent bangs You can also give it a woman permanent bangs. What do you mean when you hit her in the face with an axe? Sure, that's intense Yeah, yeah, so James Gordon think about it. No, don't think about don't think about it I don't think you're not the right headspace to think about murdering women right now. No, not at all

You're not even a right headspace to talk to a woman right now. That's true So of course the local New York papers they jumped on the story and this guy James Gordon Bennett He was allowed to see the body and he described the body as such. I Could scarcely look at it for a second or two Shortly I began to discover the liniments of the corpse as one with the beauties of a statue of marble It was the most remarkable sight I ever been I Never have never expect to see such another My God

exclaimed I How like a statue I can scarcely conceive that to be a corpse Not a vain to be seen the body looked as white as full as Polished as the pure Parisian marble the perfect figure the exquisite limbs the fine face the full arms the beautiful bust all surpassing in every respect to the news de Medici For a few moments. I was lost in admiration at this extraordinary sight. Mm-hmm a beautiful female That's a past the finest statue of

antiquity That was in the newspaper. I just feel like there's a police sergeant like okay dandy boy now wrap her up Why are you talking out loud save it for the book? You want to be a writer? You want to be a writer? He's like wrap her up. He's saying that out loud while moving her mouth It's like she's saying it if you think about it like you're Jimmy. Okay now amazingly enough this type of reporting Would give birth to a type of journalism that has become extremely important today's day and age Investigative journalism. This was the birth of TMZ. Is it like TMZ? This was the because before this all that the papers would do is that they would just report the murder

Prostitute killed in cat house end of story maybe a couple of paragraphs, but with this story this is a story He talked about how awesome her tits look while she was dead. Yes The death of investigative journalism right there named her wobbly Wendy and it was really she she became a star post mortem The birth seeds at Walter Cronkite That's right. Yeah, rather than just report on the murder They dug into the life of the victim the life of the perpetrator the lives of all the people surrounding the story Basically, you discovered that's how you get repeat customers. Yeah create a story arc and then people want to hear about the story for days you'll sell newspapers for five days and

Think about it nine prostitutes get killed an hour. That's nine different stories That's nine different stories. You find a story that matters the most and you run with that one, of course Bennett's obsession with the murders Definitely turned off his contemporaries a little bit one critic said he was like a vampire to a newly found Graveyard like the carrion bird to the carcass like any vial thing to its congenital element But I actually this is really interesting to me truly because this this argument goes on today Yeah, we're gonna have you have this argument constantly when it comes to news media I'm glorifying the deaths of these innocent people versus honoring them, you know, and and going and their struggle Since 1836 in the very beginning, which to be honest

Is it not actually it is better to tell the whole story of the person at least and yes, it's exploitive, but it used to be like you know Anonymous prostitute hacked to death in in alleyway and that was it and that was like no one knew anything about their life Oh, and they went all out with this. They had lithographers releasing sketches drawings and paintings That was not only depicted Helen Jewett, but also depicted the murder in progress the one picture of Helen Jewett's half naked and Partially draped with a burn blanket body was the biggest seller. It was in full color People could not get enough of it and the public they

Love the newspaper coverage of it. Oh, every single paper having anything to do with the Jewett murder But Bennett he strongly believed Bennett the man of the Marbled Corpse fame He strongly believed that Robinson was innocent in the murder and that he was being set up by Rosina Townsend the madam and the first person to discover the crime scene he even wrote and Published a poem about madam Rosina Townsend. We don't have the full poem, but we've got the beginning of it. Wow She's Rosina's pot for all mankind were opened rare and Unconfined like some free port of trade merchants unloaded here their frates and agents from each foreign state here first

Their entry made she was a whore Oh, that last line doesn't seem to fit in very well It's interesting though gore people think that it's a modern-day phenomenon with rotten calm and stuff I watched this great documentary about the National Enquirer and that's where the guy really kind of broke through all he was showing was corpses All he showed was mangled flesh that got hit by trains and shit like that It was more brutal than they'll show today for sure Also, I mean just think about just Victorian times where they used to take their dead kids up and still stick a steel Oh, yeah, through their back so that they can face forward dead. I'd looking at a camera takes 45 minutes to develop a picture

Fucking Tom and Becky kept on dying one day before photo day. Oh, did I tell you this? I was even on I was calling into cancel a flight I called him the woman and I was you say oh Henry. That's a beautiful name. I was just like thank you Thank you. She's like it's really coming back the name Henry and I was like, yeah, sure it is. Yeah, yeah, I've been hearing a lot Yeah, she's like I had a son named Henry. We were gonna name him Henry, but um, he died in my belly Well, Henry, maybe you shouldn't call ghost airlines any longer You should just fly Delta and then literally then I was like, oh I can be your son and then she went oh and have you seen that drag that movie with Kevin Costner dragonfly?

That's the best movie I've ever seen I'd recommend it to everyone I talked to so my flights canceled then is that okay? Yes, I can't help you with canceling your flight No, I'm sorry. You've wasted the money Well due to Bennett's constant haranguing of her character Rosina was forced completely out of business And she sold all of the whorehouse furnishings furnishings at auction and when Jewitt's bed was sold It was immediately slashed to pieces that were carried away quote as Meekly but joyously as would a pilgrim a portion of the true cross I would love to watch the husband when his wife brings home with a new couch. She's like

Honey, where did you get it smells like like a whore, right? Yeah Yeah, you get they all I got it from a whore. I got it from the whore Like licking discussion. Yeah, so you it's safe to sit on okay everyone's got a passion right and sometimes what I like to do is collect prostitutes things I'm actually really into 1836 to 1839 whore furniture It's really kind of a bizarre fashion It's a bizarre trend that nobody's currently caught on to well The first day of the trial took place a month and a half after the murder and drew a crowd of 6,000 people to downtown New York City all of them wanting to get seats

But Richard ever the dandy wore a brown wig to replace the hair that had been closely cropped while he had a weighted trial Bring me a wig. I cannot face my adoring public this way. Bring me a wig I want to look as much like a woman as possible Fetch me a new gallon of powder my skin has become brown from standing outside for an hour You want to look good on your big day? Well, there was an impressive amount of evidence against Robinson It was all circumstantial a grosser testified that Robinson was in his shop smoking cigars and reading the newspaper He was talking about a funny idea about a single guy live over the cat that he called Garfield

Wow interesting in the old Jim Davis there huh and as far as the axe went the manufacturer of the axe said that since 1834 in just two years he had sold over two thousand five hundred such instruments in New York City alone Wow good day for good year to be in the axe business great year for the axe business and then next the defense attacked the credibility of the witness of the witnesses Horrors and madams of course about madam Townsend the defense said it is her who are sworn against him It is she who would erect a gallows for that man. It is she who would send him to an early grave There was a foul conspiracy in this matter and a hole in that house have combined God only knows who he had offended in that house. It is a tough uphill battle for the prosecution It's all circumstantial and all of your witnesses are prostitutes. That's a problem and everybody's um a born liar and grifter

Everyone around them is like literally a grifter. Yeah, you have to lie. Yeah. Yeah, yeah This is downtown New York City in 1836. It is a cesspit of humanity. Yes, definitely So the jury deliberated for 30 minutes before returning with a verdict of not guilty But Robinson as he lay dying 14 years later after contracting a fever in Louisville, Kentucky It was said that he repeated one name over and over Helen Jewett He's in love with the prostitute It's like Richard gear Oh, that's so romantic

He went up on her dresses if he didn't fucking chop her head well with an axe if you stick Stick around after the credits of Pretty Woman. This is the final scene. Yeah, Richard gear takes a axe and chops her top of her Fucking dome off and then Samuel Jackson walks in as the guy Nick Fury and he's just like That's right, and then Julia Roberts is like I'll be back and then she haunts him in another movie. Yeah ghost ghost Or pretty woman too. Yeah. Oh, I loved ghost or Helen Jewett did have somewhat of a similar fate her body was dug up by medical students Skeleton and hung in a cabinet

Her a representation of her in wax along with a figure of Robinson became the central attraction of a chamber of horrors that traveled Horrors not horrors and a chamber of horrors that traveled from city to city on the east coast The current whereabouts of her bones are unknown and and I guess it's just what happens when you read the What and I guess that just what happens when you meet the wrong end of an axe I'd also I bet I bet those medical students used her Skeleton because they wanted to see just Apparently they say a prostitute sneeze can actually be up to 200 years older than the rest of her I didn't realize that and so they wanted to take a look at it. It's from the blowjobs. Oh

Oh, I said I get it now Yeah, I didn't get it at first and the hardwood floors there of the early 1800s work though should be Lifted above just mere prostitution. I agree and this poor prostitute did not deserve to die Apparently this Robinson character. The only thing we have is the judicial system and apparently he did not do it So we have to find that I'm gonna find the true killer I'm gonna look for a man who was a hundred and fifty years old He's gonna need to put a shirt on first before you leave. It's ten degrees up. Oh, I didn't know Next up. We've got the Barnes mystery. We're traveling over to merry old England. This is it's March of

1879 the victim Julia Martha Thomas when people used to use axes like they were spoon Got to get that meat pie somehow So Julia Martha Thomas she was a twice widowed 60-year-old recluse lived a few miles upstream from London on the river From the River Thames She was pronounced Tim's Tim's is it tamed in Tim's. Okay. We're gonna get a lot of shit either way. So what is it? Yeah, we're just gonna Oh my god, he pronounced it wrong. Well fucking excuse me. It's Glockersbury not like a guy key Oh, and I should know because I'm from Manchester upon Stepford upon Rippenton

Can't be following everybody. We're gonna we're gonna be very popular So she had some supplemented her income from time to time with lodgers, but in January of 1879 She decided that she wanted to take on a maiden stead. She hired on a woman named Kate Webster So this is sort of a before Airbnb situation. Yeah brought in people to her home and it's sort of like a slave But it's like it's like you buy it's like you buy your roommate that has to do everything that you say yeah, yes Yes, yeah, and Kate Webster was built like a brick shithouse. Yes, she was a strong gal big woman That's real big woman. That's who you want for me Yep ran completely opposite to Thomas who was an average churchgoer

Webster was a bit of a drunk. She was a frequent visitor to a tavern run by a woman known only as Mrs. Hey-ho cool The tavern was called the hole in the wall And she was known as being quote typically Irish and never more so than when she drank so toothless raging This is full of booze. That's what they mean by typically Irish House with pants on but then she comes home. There's no more parents. I wish women are like beautiful. They are for the most part well Irish women and Polish women the age they just know they start aging. They really they hit it hard

I heard it's the Polish women the Polish women go from they turn into like ya ya from the ages of like 32 to 35 All of a sudden there's like Honestly, you mean to you on the train and they're gorgeous gorgeous women Yeah, it was also said that her moods were found to be dark and morose. Hmm, but so seemed to many Irish to the English Subtle racism towards the Irish very subtle racism She was born in 1849 as Catherine Lawler to a poor but respectable Irish family in Killain County Wexford, of course, she was a problem child from the beginning Pension for stealing always terribly promised repentance and repentance anytime

She was caught only to return to her ways soon afterwards at 16 She got sick of Ireland stole enough money to book a passage across the IRC and Went to England arrived in Liverpool changed her name to Kate Webster and spent the next two years Surviving on what she could steal finally got caught with her hand in a gentleman's pocket and was given a four-year sentence That's way too much. Is it though? I don't know what is a normal? What is a pickpocket sentence a pickpocket? I don't know probation for a year seems like an awful lot. I think this woman was very brave for leaving her family at 16 Years old getting on a boat and going over to merry old England all alone. She's a badass trash

Yes, you sociopath very good at her job Well, she got caught with her hand in the you know proverbial cookie jar But the problem with a pickpocket is that there's not a big learning curve there. Yeah, you gotta be good immediately Yes, you cuz you're getting caught you do you I mean I missed the old art of the pickpocket. You don't see it around as much as you used to but these people were they were Because we don't live in the movie Aladdin We're not running around stealing apples from grocery carts and going like I'm a ribald thief And I you know and I run along a fucking laundry line

I got a monkey on my shoulder name the poo It's my best friend for some reason and not a vicious thing riddled with bugs and disease Every time I remember that we're not living in the movie Aladdin. It just hurts. Yeah, it stings a little bit Oh, yeah, it stings real hard. So after Kate was released from prison after serving her full term of four years She emerged a quote powerfully built woman of 22 And immediately fled to London things like do they lift weights and shit? I think so yeah, you just got to do sit-ups and push-ups and she was probably eating a bunch of box and having a great sexual time No, it wasn't like women's prison like back and like yeah, I was I don't think so totally, huh?

Yeah, women's prisons don't change that much man. Yeah, they just hang out. They have a good time And I'm sure she was revered as a goddess. Yeah, I guess it's my view. Yeah, especially if you got a big thick chest Oh, yeah, it's the back is the thing if you got a long back. Oh, yeah, man. That gives you power immediately She was living like Richard Speck in there. She was loving her life So she decided to go straight after she got out of prison found work as a maid where but when the income Proved to be a little less than she wanted she turned to prostitution Now this is an interesting fact that I found in this book According to a poll made by a prison chaplain in the year before Kate was released

It was found that only 4% of the 6,000 prostitutes interviewed said that they had been quote ruined by a man Ruined by a man. Yikes. Oh, and the other 11,000 said that they had chosen to quote Sail along on their bottoms to escape poverty. Well, that makes sense. She's a big beefy gal She can deal with some young British gentlemen going over there. May I may I sorry? Sorry there, you know, so that makes sense I mean, I she must have been quite a specialty for the for the brothel, you know Do you want a beautiful skinny woman? Do you want a do you want a middle-aged busty broad or do you just want a beefy beef cake?

Sometimes I think about it If I was a tiny little British man who were like, you know a tight little top coat and a top hat It would be kind of fun to get a big burly woman. It's way bigger than you Yeah, I fucking slap a saddle on the back of her and you ride around for a little bit. Absolutely I mean, there's no sex and it's good fun. We're all having fun eating apples Be in a horse owner and horse for the day That's fun. I feel like that's the 4% who said they were ruined by a man Yeah, no, he never penetrated me. We played horse owner and horse. Yes, I was the horse

But there was plenty of apples and he but he never took his top hat off or his clothes. It was terrible Unfortunately, the risk of pregnancy was constant for prostitutes in the 1870s and Kate became with child She didn't quit the prostitution game But she picked up her old habit of theft and spent another four years in and out of jail didn't spend a whole four years in jail But after an 18 months, stop being a prostitute while being pregnant I mean, I think you just go into a subcategory of fetish. No, she didn't stop being prostituted Oh, you can roll with all that stuff dudes have a baby fetid the pregnancy fetish thing is super real Yeah, you ever seen the Thomas clown affair. I never did see it. I think I saw it once my mom really likes that movie

I feel like if I was a pregnant prostitute, I'd get into art thievery And start learning how to do that thing where you you know You spray that the gas and you see the lasers in the jewel case Right, and then you kind of fold yourself through the lasers and then you meet Pierce Brosnan and then he takes you up out Of all your bullshit. That's what you think pregnancy is That's the only thing I can imagine No, that pregnancy fetish thing really is right I knew an Irish Catholic dude who had a horrible fetish

I don't know what I talk about it You're like, yeah, but when the bellies are like really round and stuff like that. So he's just so fucking sexy So much what I do is I I'd be doing up and doing and I do I grab the belly of the babies And then I press my face up and go be like, oh, can you feel it, baby? Can you feel it, baby? That's pretty much what I think they do. It's disgusting. I don't get the pregnancy thing I'll never understand it. Yeah. Have a trouble go to sleep. Let me rock you to sleep. Oh Yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I'm not your father. I'm not your father I'll never be your father a baby like kicks in the womb and this baby's like kicking and screaming

Just like get me out of here. Let's get to this axe murder. Oh, do you want to get to this? Axe murder, I think we do. Oh So good, man, so many legs So after an 18 month stint in prison Kate and her son moved in with a friend a woman named Mrs. Crease who told Kate that an elderly woman by the name of Julia Thomas was looking for a maid Kate applied Wearing her finest clothing and was hired on the spot She left the child with crease and cat moved in with Julia Thomas on fat in February of

1879 within weeks the situation completely deteriorated Webster thought why because she was a broad-shouldered prostitute thief and drunk big a broad-shouldered Prostitute Irish drunk thief fresh out of prison. Let's just say this woman doesn't know how to hire the best people Maybe not the best manager Do like a background check on her. This woman is gonna be your maid living in your house a background check might be something Just think about doing a background check. Hey, why don't you take a look at my back there? And I see that's all the back God gone. It's nine feet of it. That is you're funny. You're hired shut up So it's not known how exactly this relationship came to a head

We don't know what the impetus was for the brutal murder that was to come Probably spill the tea or some other gigantic British crime All we know is that the two women argued on March 2nd and Webster was told that her services were no longer needed now Thomas left Webster to pack up her things and Went to church hoping that the burly woman would be gone by the time she returned home I don't know how many times I went to church just hoping that burly woman would be gone, right now They're always right where you left them So Webster so Thomas comes home and when she comes home

Webster's waiting in the dark for and then rushes towards the old woman and Struck her in the head with a hatchet with a glancing blow. Oh in the dark Oh, yeah, you with a hatchet with my eyes closed I know because I killed a woman in the dark was Thomas didn't go down immediately. Yeah. Oh, yeah She didn't go down immediately I mean she was a 60 year old woman still didn't go down and then she struggled with Webster who was much larger and much Heftier than the old widow that wasn't her number one mistake if you're 60 always get someone more frail and sensitive than you Always have to never get into a hand-to-hand combat. No woman foot taller than you with a hatchet

Yeah, and so as they were in their struggle Thomas lost her balance and tumbled down the stairs and Webster followed her down and Fuck and place the axe directly in her skull Yeah That's where an axe goes to sleep That's an axe's favorite home Yeah, yeah, but right in the skull of an old woman You put kitchen knives in a butcher in a block of wood you put an axe in an old bitch's head

That's where it sleeps so Webster who would obviously planned ahead She drug the corpse into the kitchen where a boiling pot of water was waiting on the table was a meat cleaver a large assortment of Knives and two empty jars and some onions Very good And nearby resting on a chair was a black leather bag and on the floor was a wooden box with several cloth sacks inside All lined with thick brown paper Webster removed all Thomas's clothing and folded all her dress neatly on a table nearby She then hacked off Thomas's head with a cleaver and placed it in the black leather bag

She then cut the body into chunks and threw the pieces into the boiling water And we don't know how long she's spent at this task But it is known that she took a break to have a few drinks with Mrs. Hey ho down at the hole in the world. I love I think that's how God made the continents. Yeah Just put it all over the earth. I also think you know when your mother you got to do what you've got to do All right, and she's a mother first. That's a first job axe motor a second That's right prostitute third her if they're for First job is being a mother most you got to take care of your shit most important job

Yes, she was a mother at this point to a four-year-old. I guess it's somewhere on there Yeah, yeah four or five years old who also eventually grow to be a prostitute and murders people with an axe There we go with the family business So after Kate got well soused for talking with me. Hey miss. Hey ho for about an hour She went back to the house return of the job at hand. She removed the boiling pieces of flesh from the pot and stuffed them into the Paper-lined sacks and the fat that had been boiled away was ladled into the two jars A fire was built for the bones and the body parts that were too large for the pot were placed in the box The job took over a day to complete as far as the fat went though

Legend has it that the next day Kate went door-to-door in the neighborhood trying to sell two jars of quote The best fat dripping Well, I would love to watch I would love to hear her pitch Oh, yeah, and I will also say if this was Williamsburg Brooklyn that would That's part of the case that is a hipster like farm-to-table It is as organic as you can get it. It's perfect. Oh, yeah Hipsters would absolutely. Did you know this actually comes from a 60 year old woman who was a churchgoer? Yeah, I rub it all over my artisanal breads

So while that story is in dispute it is known that she did show up at a palm brokers and Sold the dead woman's gold bridge work with the false teeth still attached and no one asks the question No one wants to know where the teeth came. Oh a palm broker in fucking London in 1879 I know fucking hate that show on history channel Pawn Stars It's all old baseball cards and things from Star Wars like a fake foot or like a solid gun Exactly, it needs to be murder weapons and then victim bodies of Body parts of victims that might be worth something. Yeah orphans clothes. That would be great Where did the miles and miles and miles of orphan clothes?

So she got sick shillings from that deal Spent it all the hole in the wall that afternoon man She should just get a job at the hole in the wall working the door seriously So drunk he went back to Thomas's health a house helped herself to some of Thomas's finest clothing went to call on a friend named Henry Porter and her in her possession was the black leather bag containing Julia Thomas's head She took the head with her got to so Webster told Porter that she was newly widowed and had also Inherited a small villa from a wealthy aunt while she wanted to keep the villa She told her right. She told Porter that she needed to help in selling all the furniture

She didn't want the old bitch's stuff so Porter put her in contact with a guy named John Church and if she got up to Lee Porter suggested that a 16-year-old son Robert accompanied Kate home as it was late when they arrived back at Thomas's house Kate had Robert help her carry a box the box containing Thomas's remains to a bridge over the river Tim's I believe it is I believe it is the notion of a woman home is under the theory that they're smaller than the average person or Defensives. Yeah, I feel like this is you could let her walk home alone Okay, that'd be fine, especially when you did they didn't include the detail that he sat on her shoulder And then he whipped her with it with a horse whip and got her going. Oh

I want to play horse owner and horse That's a game. I played many a time. It's cuz I got these hunches here. Hey So she said that she needed to carry the box over to a friend and he said of course yeah, let's go So she told him once they got over a bridge. Hey there be a mate Why'd you grab this box of mine? Huh? Don't worry about it clinging and clanging saying anything to say to the bones I don't know. I don't care. I don't care how heavy it is. Hey, how'd you carry it over there? Hey, how about my back here give me kiss a when he's Kate? So she told her to leave him leave her on the bridge while she met her friends

So he do you I just need to meet him alone The boys said that he heard a splash in the river soon afterwards and when Webster met back up with him She said well, that's done. That's great Yeah, it was yeah, and there's nothing like a well, I gotta tell you there's nothing that ducks like to eat better than a bunch of boiled Horror, huh? I've heard that well. This is a church going elderly woman I don't think the ducks liked her too much So the next morning it was fishermen who found the box and opened it up to reveal the chopped up body inside I got one here. I got one Charlie. It's just another box of bones. They thought that it was a prank played by medical students

I want to say this I have never seen I'm not a doctor and I know we know doctors And I want to ask them is that they've ever used if you're a doctor and you listen to this podcast We know a corner in fact who listens to the podcast I've ever took it a bunch of chopped up hands and feet like use them in a prank if you haven't please do and Let me over at your house for Halloween ruin the river for the fishermen to find the next day It is an elaborate very funny joke if it was true well medical students way back in the day We're known as very ghoulish human beings because they used to grave rob on the regular they had to because that's how They got their their boxes they got their bodies to practice surgery

Yeah, it would take they would basically pull them out of the ground in order to practice stitching. Yeah, they am Ghoulish people it worked for us though for a while. Thank God. They did it. Yep. Very helpful guys Well when the constable arrived he surmised that this no this was no prank The headless corpse was indeed the victim of a murder this guy had no sense of humor whatsoever Terrible at the same time the body was being discovered Kate Webster was haggling with John Church over the price of the dead woman's furniture But church kind of sense in that something was a little fishy here He declined the offer and Kate since in the church was probably gonna go report her She gathered her son and fled to the death set to the train station destination in his court the Ireland

Church didn't he go to the police and they searched to the house They found of course a lot of evidence of body disposable, but disposal because Kate was a shitty maid Yeah, you got it. I will say Jeffrey Dahmer for a while great maid Unbelievable bondy great maid. You have to be that's actually really to be a serial killer. You got to be at least half made You have to clean up a lot. You got it. You got to do a great work You got to do great work cleaning up after the crime scene. That was her number one flaw wasn't good at her maid job Exactly and implicated by a letter as they found that she had left in the apartment That is I did it pretty much. Yeah, it was sent to an uncle in Ireland to pretty much telling them. Hey

I'm coming to Ireland So they called up the Royal Irish constabulary And they located Kate and arrested her on March 28th 1879 She was found guilty and when the verdict was read she screamed I never did it She broke her shackles and it took four policemen that jump on her back He's like I think that's the King Kong story Did you climb up the Empire State building? Yeah, there was another weird quote She said well, she was like you wouldn't like me when I'm angry

Turn green and chopped chopped up all bitches. Yeah, an incredible Hulk reference So with the black cloth on his head the judge sentenced her to hang less than a month later on July 28th 1879 and after watching Kate Webster go to the gallows the mayor of Wandsworth Arthur Griffith said she was quote a defiant brutal Creature who showed no remorse and who broke out into the most appalling language. Hey, she broke the rope Oh, yeah new rope over here. You'd need like a bridge cable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah It was a that was a sports fishing line Definitely that put her up there man I guess you just got to be careful who you rent your house to because if you you rent your house to the wrong person

You may end up getting murdered with an axe with an axe Yeah Always if you are doing Airbnb right now specify no axe murderers no axe murderers And also if you're renting our house out for an Airbnb take the axes out of there. Yeah, no axis should be around So that's our first chapter in the world of axe murder Two amazing cases very underreported. I feel so much more virile now Mm-hmm hair on my on the tips of my fingers Just tell you just wait till we get to the cases of Frank Fernando Jones and Carla Fay Tucker

Hair growing up in the palms of my hands. That's an awful lot. Oh, yeah, maybe early onset cancers I mean, oh cool. No, I've stopped touching myself. Good. Good. Good. That's probably for the best. Yeah. All right, everybody Let's give a hail yourselves hail Satan follow us on Twitter. Yes, we're active on Twitter now We finally took the initiative so it's LP on the left So it's just at LP on the left and follow us there and we're gonna be showing some Showing you what the inside of the research and some funny jokes and stuff like that Cool Henry you're lonely. Don't don't project it on me. Of course. Go join the Facebook page

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But hey, you know check out some other shows on CCR top-out round table sex and other human activities pay seven all those things You know all that stuff. Help me. I got to get my groove back guys I don't know we'll get it back to you your groove is coming back I can feel it a couple more episodes about ax murders and your groove is gonna be fully back Henry Yeah, there's three or four more episodes about expert. That's it magustillations everybody For more shows like the one you just listened to go to cave comedy radio calm