Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 163: Axe Murderers Part Two - Pinning Butterflies

Episode Date: February 26, 2015

It's the second in our axe murder series as we cover the largest axe murder in the history of the United States (eight!) with the Villasca Murders and Karla Faye Tucker, the pickax biker who won the hearts and minds of America.

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? I'm just trying to stretch out my mouth. What I've been doing is a new sort of vocal exercise before I come in and record for the music. I try to take a whole apple and jam back as deep as I can to the back of my mouth so I can form, because that's what we used to do in school with, I had a teacher named Mr. Riggers. Was he a pig? No, he was a big man. He didn't actually have a room in the school. He had this old shack that he said was he called it his own school and he called

it Mr. Riggers Academy for the emotionally desperate. I was like what? I went over there and he would say to me like, Bar, if you won't speak, it's clear as human as possible. I won't take this tennis ball unless you shove it up back in your mouth. And I won't you speak around tennis ball. And so I did that for a while and then he wanted to move on to some sort of deeper personal classes at night. Like a ball game? Yeah, he said to meet him at this hotel, this place called the Chateau de Bebe outside of Tampa, Florida and he said to go over there and he said he was going to teach me advanced classes but then I started working at the video store so. Oh man, so you never got to rotisserie

level. That's so sad. Welcome to the show everyone. I'm Ben Kissel. That's Marcus Parks. With us as always, there's a fella here. If you won't speak clearly, but I need you to do sweet young ginger. You've got soft chin. I like it. Let me wiggle your chin. Yeah. Okay. Now if you won't sing like a bird. I do. I want you to take, take this link and I'll kill boss. Oh, all right. Now force it way down. Let it hit. Let it hit to you. Yeah. All right. Now get it. Now you're about to choke. You're about to choke, right? Well, I'm going to do a slip it past where you're going to choke. You like it? I can sing. Yes, I can sing. Thank you so much. It's beautiful. I knew everyone said he's a

pervert. He's a bastard. He's a rapist, but I knew I could make a beautiful singer. It all works. Clay Aiken has graduated from my school. Taylor Swift. It's all very shady. It's just, yeah, it's just him. He lives, he sleeps under a shower curtain, you know, and he wears nothing but unitards and shit, but he's actually an amazing vocal coach. It's just everything sounds like he's about to rape you. We're not here to discuss musical theater. We're here to discuss something far less disgusting. We're talking ex-murderers. I love it. Oh, I just want to shotgun a beer and I want to like stick my balls in a hot tub. Do it, dude. Yes. The official last podcast on the left, Ben. Iron Maid. Love the maid.

Just like how I see it. Just me on the back of a tour bus with a girl with a mesh shirt on. That's right. You're wind blowing. Oh, yeah. I put a wig on so wind can blow through my ear. You have an assistant with a fan in front of you. Absolutely. Rippin' bongs. Yep. That's going to be my 30s. And the Iron Maid has won a hell of a way to die, but not nearly as brutal as getting cut up a bunch of times with an axe. Oh, yeah. And again, this year's... Whoa, whoa, whoa. The thing is, again, axe murders. We're covering this week. Why are we covering it? Because fuck you. We're covering it. Yeah, because axe murders are very exciting and they are surprisingly prominent in the world of death. Absolutely.

Well, so, you know, a lot of times what you saw in the last episode is a lot of older cases of the 1880s, 1830s. It was a time when the axe was, if you didn't have a knife, you got an axe. There was two ways to die. How to spoon. You got an axe. That's it. There was two ways to die in the 1800s. You either got burnt at the stake or you got hit in the head with an axe. Most blind people back in the day, instead of having a cane, used an axe. Why would they know the difference? Because the big thing is that you don't want to show anybody you're vulnerable. So you'd have those little tight, like super round, super dark glasses, like what's his name? Keanu Reeves had and Bram Stoker's Dracula. Remember those?

Or Gary Oldman also had them. The same. And then that made you blind. That said, it told everyone you were blind. But what you do then to not be vulnerable is that it said having a cane is that you have an axe. And then you also swinging around and stuff and being like, I can smell your fucking blood. That's right. And those, when you lose one sense, you gain another one. So that's why their nozzles were so good. That's, it's not true, but that is true. And the world of Daredevil is true. Blind people can hear your heartbeat as you sit. I swear to God, I watched it on ESPN. That is true. That is true. They do have heightened senses. They do. That must be fucking annoying. Well, yeah, it's a world of hell, but nonetheless.

I'm sure people are probably asking like, okay, Lizzie Borden, why aren't we covering Lizzie Borden? You know why? Because it's fucking boring. It's a boring story. And it's actually not even necessarily true. Correct? Well, I mean, they kept what's who's Lizzie Borden? Lizzie Borden. I mean, everybody knows the whole like Lizzie Borden gave her father 40 whack, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that. It's a great rhyme. That's the only reason why the Lizzie Borden case persisted throughout histories because it's a great rhyme. She didn't kill anybody. She didn't kill her mother. She didn't kill her father. The most interesting thing about it is that she may, that one of the theories is that

she killed her parents because her mom caught her in a lesbian trist with the maid. The one thing we learned from Johnny Cochran during the O.J. Simpson trial, if you can make a rhyme, they did not commit the crime. So no, Lizzie Borden's innocent. And it's also weird that people also sometimes call a vagina an axe wound. So it's kind of interesting that you could say that she actually punished them, giving them axe wounds all over their body just because of how much she liked vagina. Right. So God was the first axe murderer. God was the first axe murderer.

But then they lived and they're like, I guess you'll be a woman now. Yeah. Yeah. No, but they know he made a vagina and he's like, that is beautiful. That is powerful. It makes you a deep person. And I love to look at it. All right. Creepy God. Creepy God. All right. Let's get into some other creepy stuff, Marcus. Let's start with Frank Fernando Jones. It was June 9th, 1912 Children's Day at the Presbyterian Church in Velasca, Iowa.

Frank Jones was a 57 year old merchant who had obtained a John Deere franchise in Velasca, Iowa, a small farming community. The franchise was a cornerstone of a hardware emporium known as the Jones Store. Okay. And so by 1898 it was so profitable that Jones had enough money to build the biggest house in the town. He was also wealthy enough to found, along with a few friends, the Velasca National Bank, and all of this wealth enabled him to make a Senate run in 1912. Well, it sounds like a senator's what's getting murdered hardcore by an axe.

Interesting. An axe? Oh, yeah. That sounds about right, Mr. Zabrowski. I think a senator is about to get an axe wound. The road to success was not without a chair of heartbreak, for Frank had an employee, a man named Josiah Moore, who after years of loyal service demanded that he needed to be paid just a little bit more. Give the guy some money. Frank refused, more quit, borrowed some money, and opened another hardware store across the

street. And that is just fucking straight up asking to be murdered with an axe. Oh, yes it is, Mr. Zabrowski. This reminds me, there's a feud in the Midwest between the Fleet Farms, there's a Blains Fleet Farm, and a Mills Fleet Farm, and a Blains Farm and Fleet, two brothers got into a feud. So those brothers combined weight is 2,000 pounds? Yes, they can't go on the elevator together. And you know what, Josiah Moore also wrestled the John Deere franchise away from Fernando

Jones. Wow, now he had to work with the Caterpillar Company and they were inferior until the mid-1990s. So do you all get a tractor history pamphlet when you go up in Wisconsin? Yes. Do you want to know more? Would you like to know about case tractors? No, I do. I cannot allow this to be open.

We rarely change topic midstream, but it's tractor wing. Last podcast on the left, rev it up. We got big old tractors. And sometimes tractors got a nice seat on it when you sit on it for a while. Yeah, that's my favorite one. I named my tester Sally after my mother. She died by getting hit by a tractor. That's a damn shame as wheat is grown as tractors, as if a harvest is a wheat.

That brought me right back to a Wisconsin bar. I felt like I was sitting at a stool and I'm totally engaged in that conversation. Making it even worse besides just opening up the hardware store. Besides just wrestling the John Deere franchise away from him, Moore also had an affair with Frank Jones' oldest son's wife. This guy has it coming. This guy has it coming for sure. He's definitely not cocky.

He walked into the office. He's like, I want to raise it. And he said no. And then he basically made a little Sam Walton. And he's just like, I'm going to make my own fucking franchise, make my own company. I'm going to fuck your son's wife. Boom, boom, slam, slam, slam, slam, slam. That guy was rock hard all the time.

That was a real American. Honestly, I have nothing but respect for the man up to this point. So on June 9th, 1912, on Children's Day, it was understandable that Moore, who had his wife, four children, and two of the children's friends in tow, steered clear of Frank Jones. Oh yeah, of course. And it's also Children's Day, which just sounds like Christmas for molesters. It is disgusting.

Don't call it Children's Day. I looked into Children's Day just a little bit, and it's one of those trap days where they decide that, OK, this is the day that children need to be really drilled with the knowledge of Jesus Christ all day long. They have celebrations. And the main event at that Children's Day was a traveling preacher named Reverend Lynn George Jaclyn Kelly. I don't like them.

Children's Day is very creepy and it's manipulative. It's like when my parents told me I had to go to a fat camp as a kid, I was like, it'll be full of truffles and candy. But no, they want you to work out and not be fat. No, it wasn't called a fat fantasy camp. Yeah, that's the problem. So Reverend Lynn George Jaclyn Kelly was 34, married and immigrant from England. It was said that he spoke so rapidly during his fire and brimstone sermons

that anyone close to him was likely to be covered in saliva. And he was like, Oh, God, holy ghost! Oh, my shoes fell off! Honey, I think we just bought a yacht in there. I'm fairly certain that was an auction. But his shoes, he used to talk so fast, his shoes became untied and fell off of his feet. That's a bit bizarre!

He was short five foot two and a skinny little fella about a hundred and nineteen pounds. He was known in the Midwest as the little minister. For some reason I just see Marcus. I just see Marcus as like great great grandfather like doing a wiry little man just reekin with sweat smoking cigarettes and screaming about Jesus Christ. Oh and you come on down to Jesus Christ. You know what's gonna be there? You know what's gonna be in the road? The good devil's gonna be in the road. When the devil's in the road you're gonna have to walk over him. You're gonna have to look down at the folk in the road. You got to pull out that folk in the road.

You're gonna have to stab the devil in the throat. I tell you Loretta, I don't understand a single word that the tiny preacher has said but I appreciate his energy. They used to sell Jesus like they sell old oldsmobiles in the 1980s. Like a used car salesman just screaming at you and you're like I guess I better buy it. Oh no it's fire and brimstone so he's just screaming about hell in the devil. Oh I grew up with the fire and brimstone preachers and those were the most fun to watch because it was all nonsense but people fucking took that seriously. Absolutely and it's the most metal of all the religions. Oh my god it's

something like if you hear a fire and brimstone sermon you're gonna be hearing this. The devil's gonna come for you the night time. I do I do I do. So the little minister had been invited as a guest of the Reverend Mr. Ewing and would stay overnight at the Ewing household but Josiah Moore excited to meet the little minister proudly introduced his wife his four children and the two little girls that were also in tow soon after the group headed home never to be seen alive again. The next morning and really this case I'm surprised that this isn't extremely well this is some in cold blood shit right here like this is

a case that I cannot believe as Wiley is more publicized a lot more people don't know about. Well that's what we bring it to light. That's what we do here. Yeah that's what we do podcast. So the next morning a neighbor noticed and found it odd that none of the children were playing in the front yard when not produced no answer she called on a relative to check on the family inside the house they found scattered across four bedrooms the bodies of Joe and Sarah Moore their four children and the two friends all murdered in the night with Josiah's own axe. You messed with the wrong former John Deere dealer buddy. Never own an axe.

Yeah if there's one thing we should that we are definitely gonna find out in this second part don't own an axe do not keep an axe in the house. Right. It will be used to kill you. Guaranteed. I'm just gonna buy one just so I know how I'm gonna go. That's right. Get rid of those surprises. Well most of them appeared to be hacked to death while they slept it appeared that one of the young friends Lena Stillinger half undressed had either been awakened by the slings or had been moved by the killer after the murder. So now this is definitely so basically they found that they don't put it in as probably gory detail as we

normally would say right she was probably the body was molested. The body was definitely molested. Yeah it was molested. And so they now know that this crime had a definitely a sexual motive. So that's what they went for. That's what they went for first. They went for the sexual motive as you know the sexual motive definitely being established with the killer murdering the other seven people in the house to take away the possibility of the molestation being discovered. A different theory was put forth however that one was that the sexual one was put on the back burner. The target for the attack had been Joe

Moore. That was the main theory they were working with and the others were merely collateral damage. But there were no clues and no solid leads that the police to the local police department could find. So the Moore family brought in the Burns detective agency. Yeah because these cops are about to call natural causes on this thing. Not a clue around. There's not a bunch of blood splatter or a whole whole history of violence between him and this other guy. I gotta say this well obviously the father was learning to juggle. And when you get sick of the bowling pins or when you get sick of the oranges the next

thing you want to do is you add a level of violence in order to increase your showmanship. Now what I can see here is this is a flurry of accidental ex-juggling gonerai. This is just such an honor to be your deputy sheriff and I hope one day to be such a good sheriff as you. That's five dollars of suicide. Shut up Toal is Jimmy. You're not on this case. But the Burns detective agency they brought in their best man James Newton Wilkerson to get on the trail. The Burns detective agency is really interesting. Yeah this was a part this was during a time period when there was that the Burns detective agency was this like privatized

police force that was sort of like a panel. Yeah and it was like there was a bunch of people like that that would buy into it and there was franchises everywhere and it's a really cool topic for a movie. Yeah I really want to like well it's not actually appropriate for us because it's more like like criminal justice history but it's it's very interesting. Yeah we can look into that and the people that didn't live in normal society and so it's like and they couldn't be cops for some various reasons. Right right right right. Oh god and if you couldn't be if you couldn't hide your tracks well enough in 1912 to be a cop

then you fucked up real bad. Yeah so Wilkerson of course he was the first one to make the connection between Moore and his former employer Frank Jones who is now by the way a state senator. He looked into the lives of Jones and Jones's son Albert famously cuckolded by the victim Moore. Wilkerson found the name of a man whose wife daughter and in-laws have been killed with an axe in 1911. Holy lord. The name of the man William Blackie Mansfield. Now was he Irish? I don't know. I think was his I wonder what his deal was. Blackie Mansfield. Blackie Mansfield. I still can't get the idea out of my head of just every single detective scene somebody pops

in. Fifty five dollars it's a suicide. I just like that idea. So Wilkerson theorized that Mansfield had been hired to murder Moore but had quote went crazy in the process. Mansfield was taken to Iowa where he faced a grand jury but they failed to indict him. Mansfield actually filed a suit against the Burns agency for false arrest in one. Jones tried the same alleging slander but lost because a lot of the residents in the town believe that Jones actually did have a hand in the murders despite the lack of evidence. So he was tried in the court of public opinion and lost. And how old is Jones at this time because this is a real

physical feat on par with Ted Bundy going into the sorority house at FSU when he got the four chicks nearly dead. He said that he did it. I don't think. He's about fifty eight fifty nine. He did not do the murders. He did not do the murders. No. Someone went in there and did the murders. Sure. Sure. But seven people with an axe and most of them not woken up except for the final eight people with an axe. Eight people with an axe and one in in one sitting. That's a lot. That's a very difficult thing to do. Absolutely. Especially because you have to be like Gimli with that axe to be killing like eight people in a row. Did Gimli do it.

Gimli did it. Where was Gimli. He was in Middle Earth. Oh he was trapped in a land of J. R. R. Tolkien's imagination. Whatever. Still a fictional character. How convenient for him. Yeah. Typical. Well not surprisingly Jones lost his bid for reelection in nineteen sixteen. Just because he's a murderer. Yeah. Well I mean it was the murder rumor was circulated pretty widely. But Wilkerson he actually thought is like OK I don't think Jones did it. Let's look around a little bit more. He focused his attention back on the sexual angle and his search turned up some very interesting information about one Reverend George

Jacqueline Kelly the little minister who had preached in Velasca on Children's Day near hours before the murder. That really surprises me because ministers have such a they're honest and they're respectable and especially the one who chose to be the headliner on Children's Day. How could you possibly believe that he would molest these kids. Ministers that are around children have a robust history of honesty and overall purity. It's not like they look around all these kids and think about them like they're fucking sets are like little plump little you know cherry tomatoes and all I want to do is play with them and and

then maybe strangle them so they can play with them until they're fucking just a pile of bones. Most ministers don't think that. No they don't want to play salad bar with the children's body. They don't want to play the pickle with all these kids. Never in a thousand years. I know it. They're great. So this we should just stop now. I can't believe he's innocent. He's innocent. It was discovered that Kelly had been convicted of sending obscene letters to young girls in which he asked them to type for him in the news. That's the most perverted thing I've heard of. I think it's even more perverted because it seems more innocent than

other but it's very gross. It's also the click-clack of a typewriter and him just staring at him being like, I don't squeeze you to type faster. Come over here instead of my loving you. Sweet little girl there. I'm sucking your feet. I want you to type like the devil's on your heels. I want you to type like the devil is all up in your butt. That butt is on fire. Butt's on fire. Yikes. So Wilkerson, oh and by the way Kelly was also a peeping Tom. Oh. Wilkerson learned that on children's day. That just means you're curious. That's right. Before reality television. I'm a very curious person so yes when I air B&B like I was just doing in Los Angeles I would yes I would look

through their things but I'm also a sort of personal I believe anthropologist. I hate the term peeping Tom. I agree. I mean you look through a window everyone's just putting on their own little play for you. So he just really enjoyed that. He enjoyed the theater. So if you remember what I said earlier the reverend spent the night at the Ewing home but it was discovered that he left at 5 19 a.m. to take a train back to where he lived and during that trip and during that trip Wilkerson discovered that Kelly had had a conversation with a couple of old ladies about the murders hours before the bodies were discovered.

What do you mean a conversation about? What do you mean harassing these old women? Talking to them about... Oh hey little minister what are you up to? Hi you wouldn't believe I saw everybody chopped up like a bruschetta salad with an ax the other day. Oh it was the most horrible things. The titties are covered in blood. Peanuts are covered in blood. I guess I don't want to get so riled up about it. I just loved your sermon. Thank you. He was also completely obsessed with the murders. We see this again and again especially people with a guilty conscience. Right. He wants to talk about it. He wants to say something. He can't think of anything besides like

hey did you hear about those murders? That is a shame. Did he do what a lot of killers do where they go and they ask the cop, hey cops do you need any assistance? He did not return. Yeah he did not go back. He was discovered that he had sent a bloody shirt to a laundry in Omaha and Kelly was also said to have been obsessed with the coverage. He was arrested and he confessed not once but twice. However he did recant his story prior to trial. The first trial resulted in a hung jury but on the second trial the little minister was found not guilty and soon disappeared never to be heard from again. You are I think you're just

officially more innocent if you're under five foot. I agree. That is what he was what he manipulated. He was a minister. He was a tiny man. Yeah I guess he got he got the benefits of his title and his stature. Yeah absolutely. Wow so he was just and what did he do when he no no more stories of this minister? We know that he went to the Midwest like stayed in the Midwest for a little bit. His last no whereabouts were right here in New York City. Wasn't he working as like a sort of like a midterm financial officer for an axe company? Oh it quite possibly could be. Little minister can make an axe. That's fuck I love axe

murders. Oh god it's so great and we're gonna and right now we're gonna get this is the best one. This is by far this is the best axe murder in the history of axe murders at least here in the United States. She is a beautiful woman. She looks good with teeth and you can tell she'll look good without him too. She's got one of those faces of course we're talking about Carla Faye Tucker. Yeah she's a she's a looker. Yeah for a murderer. If she would have been such a heroin addicted prostitute she would have been hot. That's always the shame. Instead she's merely pretty cute. Sheik my friend. By the standards of

people who would eventually be sentenced to death row she is a ten. Oh Derek ten. Oh my god yeah. But what I like about this crime is that we're back in modern times. 1983 Huey Lewis' plan on the fucking airwaves which is great and maybe the songs kind of sound something like this. No actually it doesn't sound like this. This isn't Huey Lewis in the news. I thought this was the news. Nothing like that. Unfortunately so the date is June 13th 1983 we're in Houston Texas. It's hot. It's the middle of the summer. Oh Houston in the summer is unbearable. Humid. Cool. Sweaty. Sounds like a good place to do a bunch of heroin in a shitty ass apartment.

Bring your gold bond. This would be a posted note I would write to myself. So Gregory Travers was waiting for his friend Jerry Dean to pick him up for work in his blue El Camino as he did every morning. So nothing Texas about anything. No no Jerry Dean with the blue El Camino. He's a regular social life from the East Coast. So Jerry's running late and Gregory who happened to live in the same apartment complex went to go check on his work buddy walked over to Jerry's ground floor apartment found the El Camino gone but had loud rock music blasting from his apartment. So nothing weird. Figures that Jerry probably

overslept. Back door was unlocked and just slightly open. Gregory pushed the door open a little further. Yelled for Jerry. No answer. I love it. Come on now. Come on. Jerry don't you be playing per dog with me. Oh come on. Come on from the ground now. Come on now Jerry. I love the guys like hearing just nothing but loud metal music must be sleeping. Gotta be asleep. Typical. Typical. So as he moved inside he noticed that the partially built Harley Davidson motorcycle that ought to be in the middle of the living room. No it shouldn't. It ought to be outside or in the garage. It was missing. It was missing. It's called a Texas coffee

tape. Oh I'm sorry I didn't know. Half finished motorcycle just sitting in the middle of that house. So Jerry didn't like sleeping in the master bedroom so Travers knew where he'd find his friend. He slept over in the spare bed. That's like Eddie who doesn't edit Ed Larson the round table gentleman will not sleep in his bed only sleeps on his couch. Yeah it's weird. He's got a bed. A beautiful very nice bed. So he walks into the spare bedroom and inside he finds Dean half on the bed half off and completely naked. His head a bludgeoned mess. His torso was covered in black blood caked holes and on the floor lay a girl with her back to the floor. A pick

axe had been driven into the middle of her chest so hard that it went completely through her body and it stuck into the floor. I still feel like the number one thought in this dude's head is like but now where is that Harley. Weird weird weird. It's all making sense but where's the Harley. Oh yeah Dean's sport and 28 separate holes all over his body had also been hit with a hammer and his neck had been hit so hard that he was almost decapitated. Hell yeah. And now this pickaxe that they use. Not to make fun of the victims. No no we never make fun of the victims. But rock and roll. I mean the guy liked metal and he

had a metal lifestyle and he had a metal death. There's no doubt about that. The pickaxe that was used was it had to weigh at least 25 pounds. I mean it was big. This was a this is what construction workers used to dig up concrete, dig up roads. I tell you if you used it to dig up this dude's entire flesh. Absolutely if you ran Carla Fay Tucker's blood you're gonna get that some of that fucking Lance Armstrong HGH in there. Oh you have to be very strong to do what she did. She was juicing. So the detectives when they found out that the Harley frame and the El Camino were missing they assumed that the motive was robbery but the

savagery of these crimes pointed towards it being more of a crime of passion or one of sheer fucking hatred. Technically if you're in Texas and you steal someone's El Camino you can be charged with Texas treason. Yeah because that is defying the motto of the state which is to each man an El Camino and to each El Camino a man. My first car was a fucking 83 El Camino. That's right and then you were also elected governor that year because whoever gets the Camino El Camino is also elected to political office. Whoever goes the Camino so goes the government. Yeah I like the idea of a defense attorney getting her off because

she was abusing steroids. It don't count. Her record doesn't count. Treat her like Barry Bodds in baseball. An asterisk on the number of victims. Well they thought that it was either someone who knew the people and hated them or that it just been the work of bikers who the Houston Police Department regarded little more than animals. Sure. And if you've ever read Hell's Angels by Hunter S. Thompson you might fucking think a little bit the same. You've read it right? I've literally read it six times. The problem with that that generation of bikers too is that they discovered acid really hardcore and they kept doing

acid way past the hippie time. So basically they when they were starting hanging on hippies they got acid and then acids made bikers really weird. Yeah and highly unpredictable. That's what happens with every single cool drug. It gets co-opted by very mean-spirited individuals who take it to another violent level. And they all do an angel dust. They're very these are not. Yeah. You know they don't have accountants. They're not doing their taxes. This whole thing is very firmly rooted in biker culture. I didn't realize that Houston had a large Hell's Angels population. I mean they weren't really Hell's Angels. They were

just fucking bikers. I see. They were bikers into the biker lifestyle. Most large cities have a Hell's Angels chapter at least. And now it's mostly it's weakened warriors now. No one's doing like hard stuff. I mean the fucking Hell's Angels chapter here in New York City is in the East Village. They're in second they're on second Avenue when you see them outside and they're very geriatric at this point. Their main guy had a trachea. His trachea is removed so he speaks. Well I'm gonna kick your ass. That's way cool though. It is kind of cool because he's half a machine but it's also kind of not intimidating. So it was

quickly surmised that Dean had been hit with the hammer first making him the main target in the murder. The woman with the pickaxe in her chest just there at the wrong place at the wrong time. And the pickaxe belonging to Dean was a spur of the moment impulse. The murderers didn't bring the pickaxe with them. They just saw the pickaxe and thought fuck yeah. Never have an axe in your home. Just don't have it in the house. Leave it stuck in a stump outside. Yeah. And Dean could have been killed with just the hammer alone. Like the hammer blows to the head. That already killed him but the brutality of the pickaxe that pointed

towards this the attacker having some sort of score to settle and the perpetrator was most likely someone with a bit of a temper and possibly a drug habit. Definitely or no to think about having anything to do with drugs. Yeah well one thing we know it's not a peaceful Buddhist did this. I don't think it's a monk of any kind. So let's get in a little bit to the victim the victim's Jerry Lynn Dean a little bit about him. Want to be biker. Marry a wannabe because he couldn't get the goddamn thing. Living room. I can take it apart but I just can't seem to put it back together. I don't know why I took

it apart. I just I just wanted to get it in the living room because I thought it was bad. The problem is I can't now I can't ride it. Right. Don't got no wheels. It's like everyone who wants to be a chef and they order ginsu knives off of some bizarre television channel home shopping network or something. Cut a can with that knife. If you could eat a can that would make that. Oh yeah if you were fucking goat asshole. Sure that would work great. So Jerry had been married to a woman named Sean Jackson that marriage had gone off the rails because Dean discovered that Sean had been a quote unquote roadie for a local band while

they toured and she had a fair amount of experiences prostitute. Oh yeah it was with a guy's name like you know raised by wolves and everybody had a rat tail. I can see Sean Jackson like in my my my my my eyes my mind's eye. Yeah. She's 85 pounds. Huge blonde hair like habsies defleppered like you know sure. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's a Sean Jackson. Yeah. I mean it should be Shauna. It should definitely be Sean. I went to high school with the Shauna. I could see she's got like a treble cleft tattooed on her belly button. It's all wrinkly and odd now. It looks like a strange musical note. Jerry Dean is an asshole. Jerry Dean. He's

too good for this girl because she used to be a roadie and blew a couple of you know musicians who didn't go anywhere with their careers. You have any idea how many people are trying to get into the music business? It's crazy hard and you would not finish motorcycle in your goddamn living room. As far as the other victim went Debbie Thornton. She was a 32 year old bookkeeper married with a son and a stepdaughter. Strangely enough she was not the only murder victim in her family. Her father was a rich homosexual with a penchant for young boys who had been killed by a quartet of kids he had seduced. It's sort of like the opposite of

the Catwoman's origin story. Yeah I mean or instead of them all bringing him to life they all murder him. Because then he could have been boy man. Yeah boy man's like really kind of creepy and weird and like when he lurks in the shadows it's not like it's cool. You won't play jumpy chicks. You won't play hopscotch. I'll just get robbed you don't even have to defend me. I don't want to be I'm fine thank you. It's the Twink Avenger. Boy man with this with the Twink Avenger needs to be a comic book. So anyway how these two got together is that Debbie had met Dean at a swimming pool party at her apartment complex the day before the murders left

her kids in the care of a neighbor and eventually just being ended up in the wrong place wrong time. You guys ever been to a swimming pool party an apartment complex. No but it sounds really gross for Houston Texas in 1983 to go to a swimming pool. Just the hair alone that must be clogged in those trades. Swimming pool parties in my head are literally it's like it's four dudes one girl. There is like maybe two canes of keystone light for everyone to share. Yeah and we're listening to a lot of Almond Brothers. Oh yeah and yeah and that the girl it's a full party. Yeah she's exactly she's in her bra on the pool and

it's just a bunch of dudes staring at her. That's it and then eventually they get into a fight over her and that's Debbie was. Yeah and and and fucking she just so happened to choose her knight in shining armor. Jerry Dean. Yeah wow. Going deeper into the life of Jerry Dean detectives James Ladd and Carolyn Newman they uncovered a volatile relationship between Dean and a heroin user in part-time prostitute a one miss Carla Faye Tucker could have been if she had met like Gerald Ford she could have been the first wife. You never know. You never know. So Carla a little bit about her she was 23 she was born in 1960 to a

woman named Carolyn Tucker and when Carolyn's two daughters were old enough to smoke which means four years old. Four years old. She shared joins with them. Carla's first experience with heroin came at the age of 10 when a biker doped her up so he could fuck her. She fortunately though got sick and the biker left her alone. Yeah because as soon as he heard thrown up he's gonna be thrown up. Yeah I can't deal with that. So sensitive. It's hard to be a biker. You're always lonely on the road. I travel a lot. I know it's hard. Well Carla was described as tough unforgiving of slights hotheaded and capable

of cold and unrelenting hatred. So you put that right at the top of your tinder account. That's what you say. Swipe right. Absolutely. So after Carla's mother died she moved in with her sister Carrie and a guy named Danny Garrett and they were soon joined by these guys Jimmy LeBrandt and Ronnie Burrell. They all much Texas dirtbag. So much. Yep there's Carrie and Carla Tucker then there's Danny Garrett then Jimmy LeBrandt and then Ronnie Burrell. Ronnie Burrell again it's just like no-sleeve shirts. Got a shirt that says party naked on it. He's just doing like curls with a 20 like 20 pound barbell like in his driveway in

front of his Camaro. But not doing them right. No. Halfway and then getting a little bit winded and I guarantee you one of the house jokes was when every time someone took a drink out of a spit cup and they would just laugh. That's chew tobacco. That's good. They all lived our house in McKean Street in Houston. House is all about drug sex and the biker life. Hell yeah. As far as the conflicts. Give me one of these. Yeah let's get a lick in there. About drug sex and the biker life. That's what I'm gonna start doing man. Tight t-shirts girls with no teeth. Oh yeah it's gonna be wonderful. So there have been a lot

of conflicts between Jerry Dean and Carla Faye Tucker who had met in 1981. This had been a two-year contentious relationship. Carly considered Jerry to be a fucking poser whose only connection to the biker life was that the fact that he owned a bike. Didn't wear tight t-shirts and jeans. Couldn't handle his fucking booze and drugs as well as the crew at McKean Street could. Carla said that he was quote a pussy of a man. And he was also mean to Shauna. He was mean to Shauna. He was mean to Shauna. Shauna was Carla's best friend. Well Jimmy is just he's not a nice guy. He's not. He's a poser. And Carla fucking stood up to him.

She once punched him in the face so hard that his glasses shattered sending him to the hospital to have small shards of glass removed from his eye. All my glasses. Oh the small shards of glass in my eye. What a cry baby. She also burned a picture of his mother on a whim. He burned a picture of her mother. Oh this guy's got to go down. I have no sympathy for this poser. Again Carla could have married that girl if it wasn't for the rage and heroin. I mean you know when you start heroin before you hit puberty that's not that good. Yeah in order to be raped by a biker you're just not going to have many fun stories. So the murder

of Jerry Dean and his female companion who was cheating on her husband and a bad mother. Ain't no such things a wedding ring in the south. Yeah. Not in Houston. Not in the summertime. So the murder went unsolved for a month and five days before a detective named JC Mosier who wasn't even assigned to the case got a call from the ex-husband of one of his high school friends. I can definitely see so yeah he got a call from Douglas Garrett the boyfriend of Carla Faye's sister Carrie and the brother of Carla Faye's boyfriend. A bit incestuous. Yeah I feel like when you give somebody a ring in the south you just it just means

you gave them a venereal disease. Yeah I gave her the ring. But I also feel like Douglas will as you sat there and he was just sucking on a lone star and it was like well guess a better cold police. It was just like no nothing spurred it he just sat there like watching fucking like Johnny Carson reruns. Got to. So Garrett said that Carla and his brother Danny had did nothing but brag and talk about the murders for the last month. Carla couldn't stop talking about how she came during the killing. How she had orgasms during the killing. She said Doug I came with every stroke. Oh my goodness I mean how do you even do that how do you come

well you stab somebody is your are your thighs rubbing together. It's it's all about how you know I've heard tell of women said that they make themselves orgasm just by thinking about the things they got to get the juices going. Go to LP on the left it's on at LP on the left and ladyfans let us know if that's a possibility on Twitter yeah yeah well yeah if you've murdered someone with an axe and you had an orgasm during let us know let us know if you've done it let us know if you had an orgasm well you did it. She told her sister Kerry that she quote got a nut every time she picked Jerry. She got a nut. I got a nut. She needs

different influences she needs a strong female influence absolutely she needs like a Sally field. She does. Well Doug he was fine just hearing about the murders but Carla and Danny had started talking about killing people who knew about the murders namely Jimmy LeBrant and Kerry's husband Ronnie Burrell. That's kind of like when I told that story about the when I had the guys the roommates next to me the gutter punks next to me we're talking about like we got to kill your roommates that was like so that is terrible yeah that was a great story they were on a bunch of Adderall and drugs yeah that's a couple of episodes in

it's a wonderful story go listen to it but so that's a terrifying thing if you're talking to somebody who is telling you about the crime that they committed and then they're also telling you that they're gonna murder everyone that they told about the crime. You just told me about the crime so that so I'm now so I have to go. Don't tell me about the crime anymore you can just stop talking about it. Also it just sounds like he called the police because they were getting annoying because he was just hearing the same story. They just been doing month and jabbering on about this shit for a month straight. So you know

that you once the story about how you murder two people gets boring yeah it's time to stop talking about it. So Mosier he told Doug that at the moment the confessions they have could only be treated as hearsay. Yeah because especially because a rambling Texas dude just called on the phone told him that he's sick to death hearing his fucking girlfriend and his brother talking about fucking how they murdered someone with an axe while everyone was on meth. Can you not breathe so long can you breathe in before you start talking? Let me put my boots on. They all sound like boom how are from king of the hill you're like I don't fully understand

what you're saying but I think you committed a double murder is that right? God damn day. So Mosier he said that he needed Doug to wear a wire not only did they need the two to confess to the murders but they also for some reason really harped on getting Carla to say that she had orgasms during the murders they really wanted her to say it on tape. It's because they're all like giggling like wait this next part. She fucking busted a nut when she was fucking killing it. It plays well into the narrative and we'll get into it but I think they did give her a bit of a Charles Manson treatment. Just a little bit and if Doug

thought that he was in trouble his safe word was Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was a safe word. Well Jesus ain't gonna save you now buddy. So just before five in the morning Doug walked into the house at McKean Street to find everyone inside awake and drink it. Yeah I bet. Yeah because bedtime I mean when you're living that life bedtimes 8 a.m. Yeah and you wake up at like 6 p.m. Yeah and you have a great time. Yeah. It sounds great. Yeah. It's not. No I mean you get a lot of puzzles done. Oh that's what they were working on 3D puzzles. And I'm sure they were organizing some sort of toy drive for kids. Of course. That's a thing when I'm on meth the first

thing I do is charity work. Then all these kids are like oh are needles technically toys now? Just take the toy. Just take the toy. So inside the house was Jimmy LeBrant's sister Marla, Ronnie Burrell and a woman that Doug knew only as cookie. And that's because she had a cookie on her shirt. Yes of course. And he was the end so Doug was told Carl and Danny were in the bedroom. So after a few minutes of small talk Doug said to his brother said you know I've been wondering can't go over there with a mind to kill them people. And so Danny replied it was a freak thing you know it happened. We uh how do you say it freaked

out. Yeah you know. And when asked how and why it happened Carl said we were very wired and we was looking for something to do. We went there to catch a case of place and something said go. It was a lot creepier than that. Like some said go. Some said go. Some said go. We went in there just stabbed him 26 times. Now you sound like girls are fucking went to high school with. That's who she was. She really was someone that you probably could have gone to high school with. I know. Shauna did disappear like a few months in the senior year. No one knows what happened. And who was that retarded girl you guys all had times with. Amanda. Mentally disabled Henry.

That's what you're supposed to call taxes. Come on leave them alone. And about the pickaxe. Carla said between pop and pills. She just said it was there. It was there. I mean and again that's on Dean. You know that's his own fault. Yeah so Doug Garrett he left the house at about six. Wrote away on his Harley. Few minutes. Ronnie Burrell looked out the window and said it's the fucking law. The law. Oh yeah. The law is here because you broke it. Everyone in the house was taken in in questions but no confessions were to be had that day. Joseph Magliolo local DA he had this to say about Tucker. Her attitude and the way she looked and

everything about her was a personification of evil. I mean that's pretty fucking. Personification of evil. And while they did have the confession from the wire they needed a confession. To make the case air tight they needed a confession that was written and signed. Everybody with these fucking confessions. Man do some detective work. Yep surprisingly though Carla would be the one to talk as to why she confessed. She said I wanted to tell the truth. I wanted the real story to be told. I had to do something about how sick-minded we must have been to think about something like this.

God she just doesn't got off on it too. It's difficult to commit a double murder with the chick because they're always gonna want the attention for it. You know guys are just like we can stay mum. Post it to Facebook. Post it to Instagram. What filter should I use on this corpse that I just stabbed 26 times with the pickaxe. Babe can we just have a memory that's our memory. It's like you don't even want me anymore. So part of the motivation for the murder had been the rumor that Jerry had put out a $300 contract to anyone who is successful in burning Carla's face off. Burned her face off?

Yeah 300 bucks for burning her face off. I should pay 300 bucks to get that goddamn Harley put together. It sounds like it's also like an improv suggestion. It's been like I'll give anybody how much a 300 bucks to burn her face off. I heard your suggestion thank you. Nick can I get a season? Fall. Alright I hate that season. So in retaliation Carla, Jimmy and Danny decided super fucked up on meth and tequila that the thing to do would be to go and steal Dean's Harley parts and sell them. So Carla, we're gonna go steal his that you know we're gonna do we're gonna go steal his fucking motorcycle part. That fucking poser ain't gonna fucking

do that thing no ways so we're gonna go stealing we're gonna show that motherfucker who's boss. He want to burn this face off and I'm slowly burning from the inside with crystal methamphetamine. I'm gonna go steal his car part. I'm gonna steal his motorcycle part and I'm gonna sell him. So Carla having kept them from a time that Dean had left him at her house had a set of Jerry's keys to both his apartment and his El Camino. The original goal was just simple theft. Danny he brought a shotgun along but left it in the truck instead he grabbed a hammer on the way out. See that's just straight up stupid. Yeah that's stupid because a shotgun is gonna help you a lot more in

a robbery than a hammer. Yeah a shotgun makes a loud noise and the hammer relatively quiet when it comes in contact with the human skull. But don't you feel like you need to be pretty competent at swinging a hammer in a in an attack formation? I think you just gotta swing it a bunch of times and I hope you get lucky. That's true. So as they walked inside they heard Dean from the other room shouted what's going on? Then Danny moved to the spare doorway of the room. Carla said I was right behind him. The light was out and the window was on the far wall and there was a little crack in the curtains and a

little bit of light coming in and I could see the silhouette of a body that sat up. I couldn't see detail faces or Jerry's clothes anything like that but I could see the outline of everything like a shadow on the wall. And I walked past Danny and went and sat on top of Jerry. Carla he said we can work it out. Moving your dead motherfucker. Okay never mind never mind. And then Jerry threw Carla off and stood up. Carla looked and saw Danny's silhouette as the hammer came crashing down on Dean's fucking head. Wow. Dean fell to the floor started gurgling and Tucker said I kept hearing that sound all I wanted to do was stop

him from making that noise. So I looked and I seen a pickaxe against wall. I raged over and I grabbed it and I swung it and hit him in the back with it four or five times. Oh man. And the brant who was along with them the only one who didn't participate in the murders walked in the room to find- What in the Sam Hill? Oh never mind. Yep he found Carla with one foot on Dean trying to remove the pickaxe from his back said that she was wriggling it. She wrenched it free lifted over her head looked over at Jimmy smiled and hit the fucker again. God damn it. How far do you have to stab a pickaxe into a dude's back so you can't

actually pull it out with a relative ease? All the way through. Yeah all the way through. That's all you know you just gotta make him a little hors d'oeuvre. Oh okay yeah skewer him a little bit with it. So Jimmy obviously shaken he left the room to call Ronnie Burrell to come pick him up. He said I burned off because I didn't buy in for that. That's not what it's supposed to be. I hadn't gone if I hadn't gone for that. That's not my way. So meanwhile Danny was loading the motorcycle parts into his Ford Ranchero. God damn. Does anybody have a Honda? Does anybody have a Nissan? What is happening? At one point for reasons unknown

he returned to the room took the pickaxe from Carla and drove it into Dean's chest and returned to his loot and shortly thereafter and it's at this time the Tucker finally noticed that there was another person in the room with her. What? This whole time? This whole time. She didn't notice this woman wake up during this entire experience. She just sat there pretending to be like like I can't see me. Um well this is stupid that they can't see me so I'm just gonna keep lying here. Yeah she said that the woman's head was under a pillow and she noticed that her body was shaken under the cover. She was scared. Yeah and

reacting just almost instinctively Carla just fucking swung at the body and when the ax embedded in her shoulder the woman started to attack Carla. Here in the commotion Garrett came back to the room pulled the two apart and then just fucking left again and the victim just sat in the corner crying it hurts if you're gonna kill me just fucking hurry up. Danny came back Danny came back kicked the woman in the head as he removed the pickaxe she was knocked flat on her back and Danny plunged the pickaxe to the woman's chest with such force that it went clean through her fucking body and into the floor. Yeah collecting butterflies.

I don't know what that means. It's like pinning butterflies to a board. Oh I see right right right. But it's a woman and a pickaxe not a little pin. It's more grisly. Yes yeah yeah if you do that with butterflies you're a scientist and you're well respected. So the two grabbed the motorcycle frame finally and left a little month a little over a month later the two would be arrested tried and convicted of murder and being Texas the death penalty was on the table as a sentence. Of a means immediately. Of mandatory. They didn't even have to like pretend like they weren't gonna get the death sentence. Exactly so both Carla and

Danny were sentenced to death by legal injection although Danny died in liver of liver disease in prison before he could be killed by the state. Carla would be the first woman in 135 years to be executed in the state of Texas since Chepita Rodriguez in 1863 was hanged for murdering a horse. Now I really find this is really interesting that the controversy that came were executing her was I mean number one because she was a woman. Yeah she became a massive born again Christian. She became the face I remember this when I was growing up she became the face of the evangelical movement and one area where evangelicals

they can be relatively sympathetic and almost liberal is when it comes to the death penalty. Yeah that's why also why they're pro-life because they believe it's a little person inside of there. Yeah and she found God and she took up aerobics and crocheting. That is true that is she did take up aerobics and crocheting. Yeah and she took on she she took the the major leadership role and on death row for Jesus Christ. She was the major minister there. Yeah well she even went so far as to marry her minister while on death row a man named Dana Brown. Which there should be a law against that. Marrying ministers. In prison

when you're on death row. Anyone can get married on death row. Anybody can do whatever you want it's just how you swing it bro. So Carla Faye Tucker yes she was the face of the anti-death penalty movement. She had supports that included Bianca Jagger the ex-husband of Mick Jagger ex-wife. Yeah ex-wife yeah the Reverend Pat Robertson and Pope John Paul II. Right. But it was all for not as in 1997 her last appeal was rejected. Her fate was laid in the hands of the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles meaning the final decision was made by the governor of Texas at the time George W. Bush. George W. Bush would

never murder nobody. There's a problem also back in Texas I mean like the governor was would get his own executioner's hood. He would do it all himself. No W. you can't murder her with a pickaxe. Now why can't I just kill her with a pickaxe the way she killed that woman. If someone wants to make me an executioner's hood out of the Texas flag. That's great no absolutely make it please help him be even more isolated from society. It's a great idea. Help Marcus make himself less wanted by everybody in society. That's ideal for all of us. That's how I like it. W. Bush this was a lot of pressure on this guy

because he was an evangelical himself. Yes he was. And he was again with Pat Robertson Reverend Billy Graham also came in defense of this woman solely because she was white and solely because they loved her hairstyle and they all kind of wanted to have sex with her. Also and then this I fucking hate this press conference bullshit that he did. Or basically when they when they were announced they denied the 30 day reprieve of Carla he had said so God Mr. prayer and concluded that judgments about the heart and soul of an individual on death row are best left to a higher authority. My God bless Carla

Faye Tucker and God bless her victims and their families except you made the judgment. Well they made it I actually am with W on this one. It would have been it would have been hypocritical for him to let her off. Everybody else dies in Texas and and honestly Carla Faye Tucker she thought she was gonna go meet Jesus. So I think she had a really good day. Yeah until she realized that like all that but that's not real as people are pretty stupid. Yeah she was totally I mean yeah she was okay with it but yeah I read an article that made a very good point about is like if if the name was Carl Tucker no one would have given

her a little bit more pigment in her skin. She would have been dead long before these 14 years. Yeah and moments after George W. Bush made his announcement Carla Faye Tucker was on a hospital journey awaiting lethal injection. She closed her eyes, licked her lips, coughed twice, grown softly. Did she come? Not then not anymore. No Ben she didn't come or at least it didn't say whether she I don't know Ben do you think they fucking put two fingers up inside her dead pussy to check afterwards? I don't know I don't know what they do. I don't know. She grown softly as the drugs

coursed through her veins and she died at 6.45 p.m. her last words were I hope God will give you peace with this. Everybody has been so good to me. I love all you all very much. I'm gonna be with Jesus now. I'll see you all when you get there. I'll wait for you. You're telling me all I gotta do is live an amazing life and then when I die I get to meet Carla Faye Tucker. Wow that woman who murdered those two people with a pickaxe. Yes I'll never have sex with a woman outside of marriage. If I get to meet Carla Faye Tucker. She's dull girl my favorite ex-murderer I've met. Wow. Well she's not going to

have it. That's none of that's real. No no she's just in the she's in the ground right now. Well I guess you guys it's just really sad you know in the end if if you end up your life being executed by the state of Texas it probably means you started your life by murdering someone with an ax. And what is that? It's rock and roll. So fucking rock and roll. Thank you again we did it so that concludes this episode of Axe Murders. Two parters on Axe Murders. I think we could do another two in the future. I mean there are definitely some stories I didn't get to but I'm sure we could definitely do some more. Yeah I didn't even get through this

entire book. Carla Faye Tucker was the furthest that I got. Had enough for two episodes we might do a third in the future. That's perfect. All right find us on Twitter at LP on the left and I'm gonna give a hail yourselves. Thank you guys so much for listening. Hail Satan. Thank you Satan for the gifts that you bring. The strength that you give me. Thank you for making me rock hard and clever quick and making sure I find good deals on furniture for my house. Thank you Satan for I had a really very good batch of Thai food last night. So thank you Satan. Yeah it seems Satan's failing you. Right okay right now. Help me. Okay that's

fine. Help me. That's right. Support all the CCR shows and yeah we'll do a magustillation. Yeah right in review on iTunes go to the cavecomedyradio.com slash last podcast on the left to get your last podcast on the left t-shirt and yes magustillations to you all. All right. Oh do a hail game. Oh hail game. I think he did you know. Did he do one? Hey Carla I'm coming to see you Carla. Henry don't do it Henry don't do it. For more shows like the one you just listened to go to cavecomedyradio.com