Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 197: The Magick Series - The Right Hand Path

Episode Date: October 23, 2015

In this first in our series on magick, we cover the Right Hand Path, aka nerd magic, including the Kaballah, Hermes Trismegistus, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and everything you need to perform your very own Right Hand ritual!

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? Wish you'd step back from that ledge, my friend. Third eye blind, actually. That's what that is. That's third eye blind.

Well, I love third eye blind. No, collective soul is the one that- Yeah! Yeah! Ah, are we good to go? Yeah. No, no, no, I can't! I mean, welcome to the last podcast on the left, everyone.

What? No! I'm Ben Kessel. I'm staring at Marcus Parks. And in the studio is someone reminding me of 90s music. Yeah, it's me, Scott Wildin. Yeah. Oh, Jesus, Scott Wildin. Yeah, sometimes, you know how I like to do is I go to sleep.

Before I go to sleep, I light a cigarette. You know, you're not supposed to sleep in smoke, but guess what? I break all the rules. You're gonna light your couch on fire and get burnt alive. I save it for the morning by just resting on the top of my bush. Henry Zabrowski. Yeah. How are you, Henry?

I am mildly hungover. I don't normally do this anymore because we're trying to be more professional on the show. Uh-huh. But Jackie and I saw Billy Joel last night at MSG. You did! And I gotta say, we're moving out. Moving out! Holy, and so how long did Billy Joel perform for?

He, uh, he, his jowls performed for two hours. That's incredible. He was very good. Good voice. You started to lose some steam towards the end, but then you'd also play Mets Updates. From the playoffs, like, on the background. Of course he did. He's from, he's our hometown boy.

Hometown guy. Yeah. Alright, today's episode, we have a three-parter, and it's all about magic. And on today's episode, we're focusing on the right-hand path. Yes. Magic, the grouping together. The grouping. Because there's certain ways of saying, getting together, that if we were to say magic, if

we were to say magic, the blah, blah, blah, that was that way. There are other ways to say it that are not copyright infringing. Oh, I see, perfect. So this is the last podcast on the left presents magic. They hang out. The hang out. Alright. There's a bunch of different ways to do magic, apparently.

Yeah, there are. There are essentially what we're going to be going through in this series. It's a whole variety of like 20th century western magical disciplines and philosophies. We've got the right-hand path, the left-hand path, and chaos magic. Now, we want to, I can't stress hard enough that we are beginners at this. Oh, God, yes. Marcus and I have been doing a rituals, as we've talked about on the show. Dogmeat's got an altar in his home.

Yeah. I too real have an altar in my home. This is true. This is not horseshit. I have a little, it's a little stool, and I've got a pentagram, like little tablecloth on it. I got two black candles on it, and I got a fucking human teeth on the side of it, and I have a fucking girlfriend.

That's great. And all that shit works out. Yeah. All that shit works out because we're going to find out magic is mostly about getting laid and making money. And that's called the scare the hell out of the Chinese delivery man shrine. Yeah, yeah. The most bad luck to bring runtime to this ham, but still most generous with the tip.

Very good. Yes. But we are neophytes in the world of magic. So know that all of this is just a primer and the right hand path specifically that we're talking about today is the most rule laden and complex version of magic. As it goes along from the right hand to left hand to chaos, it gets simpler and more easier to do, which is like Marcus and I do a lot of chaos magic because it's about the doing of the thing.

We're going to talk about right hand path, which is about the learning of the thing, and it is all made up. It seems like chaos magic would be the most difficult to understand. I understand a right hand. I understand a left hand, but it seems like anyway, be careful with all this stuff, ladies and gentlemen, because if you mess up the magic, you'll turn your mother into a donkey. All right, I am going to say, you have to, I need you to open your eyes. No, I'm over.

You're feeling sick. I'm under the weather. You're feeling sick. You're slump-shouldered, even talking about it. Every time you say the word magic, your eyes just kind of roll back a little. But just know today, this is Hogwarts. Right. No, give me.

This is the first one. This is your freshman orientation. I represent the sample audience of people who don't know anything about this. That's great. So let's do it. You're a pert young 18-year-old girl who's walking onto a university the first time, and she's from a small town. Yeah.

She's from NYU, and she's like, hopefully, the city will teach me as much as the school will. And that's what you are. I hope not. So the central idea behind 20th century magical thought is the concept of will and or intent. Now this is Western magic, not Eastern magic, which is a whole other shit, and it mostly involves about folding paper into cranes. This shit is good.

This is a little bit. So just so you know, this is our concentration. Yes, this is definitely where concentrating on Western magic, which is influenced at times by Eastern magic, but mostly once you get to fuck magic. So the purpose behind this type of magic is to bring about specific changes in either your internal consciousness or to bring about tangible changes in your external life, i.e. real world results, and one accomplishes this by transforming their perception and or state of awareness.

You know what Henry's been talking about the last few days? What he's been saying? Perception meets ritual meets reality. We're going to tell you what the fuck that means. All right. So the idea behind this is another thing that Henry's been talking about a lot is that reality is malleable. You know, the best example of this, and the...

It is. It is, Ben. You just... I'm listening to Marcus, please. Well, I mean, that's... What I'm going to try to do, what we're both going to try to do here is we're going to try to give you examples of things that you might already know about. Pop culture is a great touchstone here, specifically the matrix.

When you talk about the idea that reality is malleable, see, this is... It's an extreme example, but if you'll remember in the matrix, Neo was able to manipulate his environment through a pure act of will. Because he had to, but he had to understand that he was a part of a manipulatable environment, and that's how all reality is. And again, this is why every video on YouTube that remotely talks about conspiracies or magic starts with Larry Henderson. What's his name?

Doing the... Larry Henderson. Learns fish burns. Doing the blue pill, red pill shit. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so why don't you just go ahead and forget about all of the horrible things that conspiracy

theorists have done to the matrix, forget about all the memes. Remember that the matrix is a fantastic movie. It's a rip, it's a rip brawl, an action rock... It's a great movie. And that's been the entire point of this four-year journey, is to plug the matrix. Finally! We're getting this Hollywood blockbuster, The Exposure It Deserves. It needs to be recognized.

Well, it's what it is, is that the matrix is magic disguised as technology. Right. say it's a great example of magical ideas in pop culture. The Matrix was the next step after the Invisibles, which the Invisibles was the next step after the Illuminatus trilogy, and so on and so forth throughout history. Does this, I watched that documentary, The Nightmare,

where people with sleep paralysis, does that have anything to do with it, that middle ground between nothing at all? No, no, no, no. All right, great, move on. Perfect, hey. Hey, I'm just asking, I'm just asking questions. Well, the sleep paralysis could have something

to do with the collective unconsciousness. Boom. But that is something, that's a whole different can of worms, right there. How about the sex tape that Lawrence Fishburne's daughter made? No, no, that was a paid pornography. That was a paid pornography film, okay.

Right, right, right. So while magic is admittedly goofy as shit, really cool stuff can come from it. Well, the idea, the problem is, is that what we're gonna learn about the right hand path is these guys covered the cool stuff with goofy shit, like the hats and the free mason style like degrees and the rituals because they wanted it to appear mysterious

and they wanted to have the, it's why we talk about with satanic panic, with the idea of like you surround it with fake ritual stuff so nobody gets to the real truth and so they have to go through a bunch of bullshit in order to learn that reality is a hologram. And basically what they say with all magic is that you have to kind of trick your brain

into understanding it and so they use symbolism and stuff like that and a lot of times live symbolism requires stupid hats. Yeah. But you don't need the hats. You can do all this- You don't need that, but that's where- Butt naked if you want to.

We're gonna get to that with chaos magic. Well, the difference is that back when these people were doing this type of stuff, the human brain was not tuned into this sort of thing. You weren't able to understand these abstract concepts yet. You were there to survive. So the only people that was able to do this sort of thing is Dandy Phops.

Absolutely. Rich people with a lot of time on their hands that they didn't have to spend all their time surviving. But now that we're in the 20th century especially, the latter half of the 20th century, ideas like that are put forth in the Illuminatus trilogy, the Invisibles, the Matrix, our brains are already primed for that.

So our brains, we have a head start on all this magic stuff which is why it goes from the right hand path to the left hand path to chaos magic because we're already primed for it. The groundwork has been laid. Let's get into it. Right, let's get into it. You know, let's really get into the beginnings

of Western magic which is the Kabbalah. And by the way, we took most of our research on this episode from a phenomenal book called Stealing Fire from Heaven. It's by this guy, Neville Drury. It's Oxford Press so it's a little academic. I mean, he's got a nerd's name. His name is Neville.

Yeah, that's not his. So that means Neville is British for asthma. I think that's the case, yeah. Yeah, but it does, it gives you a great primer on a lot of these traditions and it goes into a lot of the history, stuff that we don't necessarily have time to go into here but if you're really interested in going into magic,

that it's a great primer for all of this. I do love this quote from Michael Aquino that you have here for the founder of the Temple of Set which took all the fun shoddadas of Satanism. Yeah, yeah, and Michael Aquino, huge dickhead. Huge dickhead. He started, we know he worked for psychological operations of the US Army.

He created the Mind War program that they're using on American citizens but he said this about magic which is very interesting. Humanity is like a tall building. It needs stage after stage of scaffolding. Religion after religion, philosophy after philosophy. One cannot build the 20th floor from the scaffolding of the first.

Good point, Michael. Thank you. Oh no, I forgot to clip my eyebrows this morning. How will I make them look, make me look arch and inquisitive without my pointed eyebrows? Looking bushy Aquino. That's exactly what I was just talking about is that all of these things build upon each other

and Kabbalah is where all of this stuff starts. This is kind of where the building of Western magic begins. Kabbalah is by. Try to attempt to explain Kabbalah in two sentences. I think, okay, Kabbalah, first sentence, Kabbalah is near incomprehensible, Kabbalah is a near incomprehensible

offshoot of Jewish mysticism. I can explain it. Yeah, just go ahead. Kabbalah is Madonna's music video for Ray of Light. You know what, that's pretty close. That's pretty close. You can pretty much get anything you need from Kabbalah by watching Ray of Light.

Actually, yeah, it does. Body of Light is something that we'll talk about later. Which also makes no sense. But this is a, it's a creation story that was based off of an arcane sect of Jewish belief that these entities came from some, what have you got written here? What is it?

Because I've been trying to understand Kabbalah this whole time. I've got it. I've got a fairly simple explanation, as simple as I can make Kabbalah. Because like I said, this stuff is incomprehensible and I've been working for weeks on trying to turn this into something

that people can understand. Yeah, and Marcus is literally hovering above his chair. Yeah. He has been doing magic. It's working for you. You look great. Your skin is clear. You've quit smoking.

Yeah. It's good if you have a hemorrhoid or something too. Yes, yes, it's like a donut pillow that you'd use with your mind. Ooh, a mind donut pillow. So God first taught the framework of Kabbalah to a select group of angels who shared it with Adam, who passed it to Noah, who passed it to Moses,

and so on and so forth. It's just like that Bible, one begat the next, the begat the next and all that. So people passed that down as an oral tradition until 1280 AD, when a rabbi named Shimon Bar Yachai. Shimon. Shimon. Dared to write it all down.

For nobody dared to write down anything about the Kabbalah before 1280 AD. He wrote it all down in a book called Zohar, which translates loosely to the book of Splendor. Oh, I thought it had something to do with the water boy. Or was it Billy Madison? Possibly not messing with Gilmore? That's the problem with my immaturity as a man.

I can't read the word Zohar without thinking about Adam Sandler. Even though it's an ancient Jewish idea. That was Zohan. Oh, wow. I don't know there. I'm not up to do my Adam Sandler reslocks. I've been smoking a lot of weed.

But again, remember that this is a creation story. Yes, this is a creation story. Kabbalah says that all aspects of manifested form come from A.N. Suffauer. We also don't know how to pronounce these, so fucking back off for a second. We don't know how to do these ancient Hebrew words. I have never heard anybody say these words out loud

until I have said them out loud myself. All right, so give me a fucking break here. That translates to limitless life. And that is the realm which has, quote, neither qualities nor attributes. One could consider it a featureless void from which all is born. You could consider it, say, the void that was

before the Big Bang. Think of it that way. If there was one. If there was one, if we were just one of many universes that already existed, or we've been continuing forever, or it's been a cycle of slip, slip, slip, slip, slip. You're like Neil deGrasse Tyson, buddy, if he never went to school.

So the energy that emanates from A.N. Suffauer formed the 10 spheres upon the Tree of Life. Now the Tree of Life is central to understanding Kabbalah, and it is, of course, the most difficult thing. To understand Kabbalah. It's the thing you can't understand. But some of the idea is that it is, the 10 spheres represent different aspects of reality.

But the idea is that we all have the Tree of Life within our bodies. All forms have the Tree of Life within them, but they are just mirrors of the Godhead, which is the big mommy-daddy Tree of Life in the formless void. Well, technically it came from the formless void, right? And so we all got the same set of plans in us.

Yeah, you can compare them to chakras. I just feel bad for the author's wife. Whoever, this 1280, 1280 AD was a bad year for this check. Yes. So the 10 spheres represent, as Henry said, different aspects of reality. And in order for one to reach oneness with God, which is the point of Kabbalah,

that is the end game of Kabbalah, you have to rediscover each sphere from the bottom up, starting with sphere number 10, Malcuth, which is the subconscious mind up to the first sphere, Kether, which is eternal spiritual perfection, oneness with God. Got it? Got it.

I guess. I guess. You can't start building a building on the 20th floor. You gotta start on the first. You're getting it. Yeah, you're getting it. Yes, you must start with Malcuth. That's right.

All right. That's the lobby. By the end of this, I'm gonna be the smartest one in the room. I'm gonna put this all together. Yeah, exactly. Like, it's really once it's put into simple terms. It's not, and you start building one upon the other,

and you really start putting all of it together, then it does start to make sense. But it's just a big slog. It's just a huge slog to get through all of it. And a lot of, literally, resting my forehead on my desk and taking deep breaths, take a bit of a break. It's like meditation, but riddled with stress. Yeah, I think that's called exhaustion.

Yes, yeah. Mental exhaustion. So these 10 spheres that one must get through are divided into four worlds, right? And these are all four worlds of creative manifestation. It starts at the top with Azzaluth, which is the archetypal war. Archetypal, archetypal.

Archetypal? Archetypal, I think. We can't say archetypal how we get through the Hebrew. Yeah. Once again. Archetypal, archetypal is like, it's one of those words, of course, people are gonna fucking get at me on this.

But once again, never heard it said out loud. So I'm just gonna go with it. But it's an important term in Western magic. That is the emergence of God's will. What that word means in this context, context, an archetype. It is, an archetype is a recurring symbol. It's something that we see over and over again in different forms.

Like, you know, you can see Apollo, one of the old gods is Superman. You know, you see these things, you know, Joseph Campbell talks about like the hero's journey, which these are stories that come up again and again. For example, Star Wars is an example of the hero's journey. And these are personalities and entities and images

that have existed for all time. There is no real beginning. They are somehow hardwired into the way we view all reality. Yeah. And maybe a part of that is that it's because we are a reflection of what Kabbalah's kind of saying is that they are like the blueprint. And it's like, imagine that they're like,

you remember Transparencies, where like the Tree of Life is a transparency that you put up on a projector, the light literally is shooting that out to a projector screen. Yeah. And that projector screen is what reality is. Yeah.

Also somewhat, you know, related to Plato's shadow, which we're definitely not gonna get into that. I just don't understand it. Any of us. I mean, that's like, that's philosophy 101. I should have said this. I pray to fucking Satan that you're high. Right?

I was sure you were gonna ask him to get stoned before this one. Yeah, this is definitely a getting stoned episode. So yeah, if you haven't done it yet, please go ahead. And honestly, if you've never smoked weed before and you haven't smoked weed yet, this is what it feels like. So you can pass a drug test and still get high.

And then it goes up to Bria, the world of creation represents father, mother and birth. That gives rise to Yetzara, which is the world of formation that provides the foundation of the higher levels of the tree of life, everything above the physical world, which is represented by Asaya, which is the final materialization of God's will,

i.e. us. Asaya, that is, we are the final manifestation of God's will. Man is the final manifestation of God's will. And our job, as far as Kabbalah goes, is to become one with God once more. See the tree of life, it goes both ways. God demand going down and man to God going up.

Why ain't there unicorns? Well, we'll get to that. So yeah, this whole thing, this is extremely simplified, but the concept of accessing different spheres of consciousness and attaining a higher level of spiritualism, this is key to Western magical traditions. The right hand path, the left hand path, chaos, magic, all of it,

because this is active rather than passive. It's doing something. It's not just waiting for something to happen to you. It's not a passive state of worship. It's not leaving things, quote, in God's hands. But that's what they say that's very interesting in stealing fire from heaven at the very beginning. They said the difference between religion and magic

is that religion is subjecting yourself to God's will. It is kneeling to God, where magic is becoming God. It is going and taking God to task. And now we're gonna see the three tenants of all Western magic. We've got Kabbalah, and now it's sliding how Kabbalah slides

into the hermetic view of life. Yes, and hermetic, the hermetic tradition, it's similar, but still different from Kabbalah. And this is, again, it's what it is. It's a simplified version of it. As time goes on, magic is extremely complicated, and as time goes on, it gets simpler and simpler as we go. Because you're also gonna learn

that the people like to keep things complicated at the very beginning in order to make it hard for you to learn what it is. They want it to be hard. They want Kabbalah to be super esoteric, especially back in the day, because you literally would have to be a Torah expert. A scholar.

Yeah, you'd have to be a scholar to understand what they're even fucking talking about, and so they keep their shit really elite, like very elitist. Can hermetic magic exist without Kabbalah? Kabbalah had to come first, right? Yeah, I believe so. There we go.

He's just defeated. Well, actually, I watched a great documentary called The Men Who Built the World, and it's all about, you know, the steel refineries and factory work and things like that, and you don't have Ford, for example, without, you know, what is it? The guy with the Carnegie Steel, he doesn't make a car.

You know, he kept me, so everything comes together. So without the... The lobby goes up to the gym floor. Goes up to the hot tub floor. Then you skip right up to the 20th. Yes. Well, actually, I have to take that back a little bit. The hermetic tech, I forgot about this,

hermetic magic, the first, I guess not necessarily the magic part, but hermetic texts, when it first starts talking about this stuff, can go back to the third century BC. This goes back thousands of years, and the central figure of all this is Hermes Trismesticus, aka the thrice greatest Hermes. I'm better than the other Hermes,

and only, you can see, it's two times better, so that's why, but you can tell because of how gold my sandals are. I love gold sandals. Yeah, Hermes Trismesticus, he acts as a spiritual teacher. He's essentially a combination of Hermes and Toat, an Egyptian god, and that's another big thing,

especially once you get in a Crowley later. The Egyptian gods really play in all this. The Egyptian gods were the blueprints for the Greek gods, and so it just keeps going back and back and back and back and back to Sumerian, to pre-recorded history, and all that shit. Yeah, back when people first got consciousness when people first thought maybe something's,

maybe there's something different. Back when there were chiseling books. Yes, exactly. Gotta get that print and press. Cuneiform. Yeah, when they were driving cars with their feet. That's ridiculous. You remember when they had Pelican secretaries?

Oh my goodness, man, that's the Flintstones. Yeah, oh okay. But yeah, but isn't that just like a documentary? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Hermetic magic, it still has levels and spheres, but much more simple to understand. What it is, all things still come from God and are part of a sacred universe,

but it's divided into three different worlds, rather than four with five subsets within them. It's like seven-minute apps instead of eight-minute apps. That's a perfect example. I was thinking scrambled eggs have gotten easier to make over the years. What? You crack an egg and then you put it

into a little microwavable container and then you get yourself. That is just the loner's way of making eggs. Well, it's a lot of divorce days do it, so it's definitely tested. Three levels, nature, then the stars, then the stars, spirits and guardians, and then at the top level is Nus.

Is it Nus? Nus? Or is it Nouse? N-O-U-S. Nus? Nus? Ben, make a decision. Nus.

I must go Nus. So, Nus is the world populated by angelic spirits who had superior knowledge because they were closer to the Godhead. The Godhead is the sacred source of all creation. And to become one with the Godhead, you had to liberate yourself from the constrictions of temporal life,

i.e. where we live right now, and enter the realm of pure and divine thoughts. So what you're saying is Nenus is badness. God, the Matrix was a hell of a trilogy, the Matrix. Keanu Reeves is coming back. Oh, I love that. That's great. Oh, it's not a good trilogy.

The first movie's great, the other two are awful. John Wick, there's a film. Love it. So this is all achieved in the hermetic tradition through high magic, a.k.a. as I said earlier, shit nobody except Rich Dandy's with all the time and resources in the world can do, which brings us to the hermetic order of the Golden Dog.

There's a third tenet to all this magic that we're not including because it is also far too complicated. Literally, again, every one of these little topics we just brought up have maybe thousands of books written about that. So we are just doing a dump. This is very just that.

Eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat. A neus of it for you. But the other thing that we'd add include is the tarot, and the tarot set of cards are. There would be four then because I thought you were gonna say nosticism. There's a lot there. Tarot is the series that,

you know it's a card set that was basically made to be a game back in the French days. I forgot what some king made it a long time ago. It's got these major arcana and then you know the cups and the wands and the pentacles and the swords and shit. And so the idea is that those symbols are used in conjunction with the Kabbalah because the Kabbalah uses the Jewish alphabet as a way of divining things. And it uses their letters and numbers as a way to sort of like representing because the ideas that we're going to go into is that names are very powerful. But the tarot, the numbers in the tarot can match up to the numbers of the Jewish alphabet and numerical system and so they just apply them to each other all the time.

And that's just, I'm just saying stuff. But if you want to go back and listen to our psychic episode from way back in the day, our psychic journey, we had our tarot cards read and the woman who was a terrible mother because I saw her children all dirty there, she guaranteed my relationship would last. And it did not. You should have taken that warranty into the store. I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna go knock on her door and tell her she's my wife. I was told that someone I work with would one day betray me. Who will it be? You were worried about that. I was super worried about it. I gotta, I gotta, they were like, my life was gonna be great. I was gonna live to 87 and have three kids. And so far, on track. Well, I'm happy to be without her.

Yeah, you're looking at you. Oh my god. Oh my god. Yeah, these are great. They are very good, actually. Good. So the hermetic order of the golden dawn is our first foray into modern organizational magic. Just also know there are many other magical orders like the hermetic age of the golden dawn or hermetic order of the golden dawn. There's many of them. We're just uses the big daddy one. This is the New York Yankees of the magical order. Yeah, there's a ton of them. And this is and remember that we're going on the right hand path here. So if you're starting to scream about other left hand path things that came before the hermetic order of the golden dawn, we're going to get to those on the next episode. So the hermetic order

of the golden dawn, they were primarily late 19th, early 20th century, the three founding members, Samuel Liddell McGregor Mathers, Dr. William Wynne Westcott, and Dr. William Robert Woodman. You can smell the wedgie friction. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, if you guys are and it's very interesting because they took stuff from the Freemasons right there in order to build the golden dawn. But one thing that they opened up was that they allowed women into this group, which the Freemasons did not. And you'd be surprised. These guys were fucking these women. They were pretty hot. They were super hot. And they paid for everything. The women paid for everything. The women paid for everything. Isn't that something? Like they always do.

Something's at work here. So the first official document said that the purpose of the golden dawn was that it would be a secret society dedicated to the pursuit of occult sciences and quote, the further investigation of the mysteries of life and death. No, the key word here is investigation. They did not really believe in because that's what Marcus and I were talking about. Like, so God, it's a big burp. What happens to you sometimes? But Marcus, I heard talking about how like, you know, eventually like, what did the golden dawn do? Like, what did they achieve? Now, was this all nude? No, no, no, no, no. In fact, totally the opposite. Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, the clothes were very important. But sex was popular. Well, no, no, later on later on.

The reason, yeah, sex was not all that popular, which is why our man Alistair Crowley decided to get the fuck out of here on the golden dawn. But we're going to get to that later. Somebody like to eat cunt. And that was Alistair Crowley. And it's like, you know, when you want to work something of like a bit in for years, you're like, Oh, I got this fucking like Barbie bit that I want to put into my set. Now, just kind of shoehorn or whatever. Alistair Crowley just like eating buckets of cunt. Yeah. And so he decided to somehow get it into magic. Yeah. Yeah. He combined all his hoppies. Yeah. Kind of rub it on the wall there and you can lick it off. So this is that this is where we're going to see that the golden chief we're

going to this is where we're going to see that the golden dawn is immediately full of shit. Yeah. Now, what they said in their opening doctrine and said to learn the things that they were going to go through to investigate the mysteries of life and death, they had to be granted permission by these quote unquote secret chiefs who were essentially these mysterious guys in charge and they provided spiritual authority to the golden dawn and they they permitted both the male and female members. But for some reason, they only spoke to Samuel L. McGregor, Mathers and he's the only one who could understand them and they never could really identify who the secret chiefs are and they seem to change all the time. Shades of Mormonism here. I feel

like the secret chief is just the landlord. Yes. In my life it is. Yeah. So members, they were required to believe in one God, quote unquote, one God, capital O, capital G, one God. And that's the other thing that these people are fond of is capitalizing random letters. Like for example, when they said the further investigation of the mysteries of life and death, M, mysteries, life and death were all capitalized. Like Hunter S. Thompson. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Emphasis. This ground of them and monotheism, particularly Christianity, they said, quote, the candidate, if not a Christian, should at least be prepared to take an interest in Christianity. All right. Take an interest in it. Yeah. So it's like, if you're not, if you're not a Christian,

hey, be Christian. Look at the book. Look at the book. Yeah. It's their way of saying like, yeah, we'll let in Jews. Sort of. You just have to take an interest in it. But the only thing that they did not want in was mesmerist or spiritualist people that were, which at the time was huge. Yes. Spiritualist was a, being a spiritualist was a gigantic thing. This was talking to the other side. They wanted no David Blains. Yes. No David Blains. No Harry Houdini. Yeah. The idea is because they knew most of them were full of shit, but they were not interested in ghosts. The idea was they believed that magic was more concrete than that, that that's where they say life and death, is that it's not like there's some spiritual realm. It's what's going on here right now,

is that there is an extra layer to reality and it's real. It's not just like talking to your mammy. Yeah. And she's going to tell you where your pocket watch is. They're taking all the fun out of it. It's like when you see a family and they're all dead and nobody knows why and then, but somebody walks in and they're like, it was definitely a ghost and another person says, carbon monoxide. Yeah. It's like, it's a ghost. So separate carbon monoxide into it. Like when they blur out the titties and red shoe diaries, when they show at late night in USA. Get out of here. Yes. The reason why they didn't want these people is because they didn't want them to, quote, habitually allow themselves to fall into a completely passive

condition of will, end quote, because that's central to magic, 20th century western magic, the concept of will. And they considered spiritualists to be passive receptors of will waiting for people to come to them. And the one thing I will say about white people is that we are full of active will. Your grandfather knows. We didn't spend enough time working and then our brains went like, way haywire. We are supervisors. Oh, is that it? Some might say that we're very big into the concept of the triumph of the will. Yeah. And some people, you'd even say like, you had a job. Look, think about your great, great, great, great grandfather's job was, he was an overseer. Right. So since, as Henry mentioned earlier,

two of the founders of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn were former Freemasons. This still rooted the Golden Dawn in the concept of degrees for its members. And this is where the Tree of Life, Kabbalah comes in, they aligned the members or they aligned their degrees with members of the Sephiroth, the levels of mystical consciousness, because what this was all about, it was about becoming one with the Godhead. It was about becoming one with the secret consciousness of the universe, pretty much. And they legitimately stole a whole structure from Freemasons because it was cool to them. Because the idea is that Freemasons, a quick primer, the Freemasons, that the idea is that it started from the guys who built, or they say the guys

who built the Temple of Solomon, and that how you became an upper-level Mason, basically, when you got approved to go to the next level, you'd be taught a secret handshake by that guy. And that way, that's the only way you knew that someone actually was good is because they could do the secret handshake to be like, I'm an expert Mason. And these guys just liked secret handshakes. So it's not so nefarious, it's just people wanted to have a good time with each other. They're just trying to make a fun private club, but that's the way it always starts. And then Mathers takes it a bit too seriously. And we're going to learn here is that he did create these five orders and then added a new section as soon as it was convenient for him.

Yeah, the five grades started at Neophyte, which Henry mentioned that term earlier, that means merely someone who's just shown an interest, or someone who's a Neophyte, contacted someone from the romantic order of the Golden Dawn and say, hey, this sounds cool, can I learn more? And they say that the Neophyte is the most important order, because it shows that you're opening your mind to the idea of magic. Exactly. And then for those who wanted to get serious with it, it went Zealotaur, Theoricus, Practicus, and Philosophus. And what is interesting is that, so those were the original five, and then out of nowhere Mathers was like, the secret chiefs have told me that there's a second,

second order that you have to go to before you get to the super secret third order. And the only way to get to the second order is my approval. And the secret chief said this, that's for sure. Yeah, it's, I mean, you also, I mean, with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, it's very close to, you know, it's like shades of Mormonism, shades of Scientology. There's a Xenu coming up here at some point. So each member, oh, and by the way, every level came with a ritual that was essentially just an oral test to prove that you knew your shit. You had to do this ritual, and you just had to recite the names, you had to recite all these different spells. And it was just to prove to everyone else that, hey, I'm cool. Also, you have to be able

to make a wizard blow his load in 30 seconds. Oh, wow. I mean, Alistair Crowley technically mailed that up. Yeah, that's not what he got in there. Yeah, tough to do. So each member had a magical name. Just Alistair Crowley snarling at your dick. I will force it to obey. Shoot your licks of life deep into the trough of my gullet. Alistair, this has been great. Listen, I'm just having a hard time orgasming because you just keep gnashing the head of my dick with your teeth. Not good. So each member of the Golden Dawn all had a magical name. And in keeping with degrees, you could only know the magical names of those who were in your level or a level below you. Because if you have the name of someone, you have power over them.

Yes, exactly. So you only wanted people that you trusted, people that you thought were groovy, to know your magical name. So for example, here are some of the magical names of the founders and what I could come closest to translating them as, because they're all in Latin. Now, Mather, again, is the leader of this whole thing and he's the super nerd. Yeah, he's the super nerd. His name, he had a couple of different names. He was first known as, and again, pronunciation, I've never heard anyone speak Latin before, so I'm just going to wait. I'll let you know. I'll let you know. Don't worry about it, I got it. Deo Duce Comite Ferro, which I think from what I could figure out, I spent a little bit of time

on Latin here. I think it means God guiding with iron. All of these are very good World of Warcraft games. Very good. And Marcus, you are correct. Thank you, Ben. Not a problem. He was later named, and this is, and for some reason, he also, he's the only one who doesn't have a Latin name. He later changed it to a Gaelic name. I don't know how you pronounce anything in Gaelic. Yeah, Gaelic. You're just saying Asian there. Seria Gael Mo Dream. Oh, it's Seria Gael Mo Dream. Seria Gael Mo Dream. Yeah, like Gael, Gael Mo Dream. That's correct. Do you know Gael Mo Dream? I love Gael Mo Dream. You guys just sound like tourists to ancient Druid Scotland, where you guys just show up with like Hawaiian shirts on,

be like, so which one of y'all's the father Thomas and which way's the Burger King? Well, it is the motto of the Scottish clan Gregor, which that is his, that's one of his names, is McGregor. That means, royal is my race. Nazi-like. Interesting. West Scott, another one of the founders, his first name was known Omnis Moriar, which meant calm before the storm. Which is also this, I got this new old spice. You know, these are the new old spice things that came out, the white things. I'm using calm before the storm and it's really frequent. You're saying, why would you use that? Because you want a woman to feel like it's calm before the storm of your love making inside of her. Loins. Because that's what I call, when I'm about to,

when I'm about to make love, I go, storm's coming, I can feel it in my knee. You know, and then she subjects herself to my will. No, she doesn't. So, after that, he named himself. I think the storm is coming because you're on your knees begging her to have sex with you. And it's not as, it's arthritis. The storm has to come. Because what happens if the storm doesn't come? So, after calm before the storm, he named himself Sapere Aude, which meant dare to be wise. Just, just dare to do it. If you can handle it. So they, I don't, they, they, they give themselves the nickname. Yes. Aren't you supposed to do something and then get a nickname? No, no, no. Because then all their names would be like funny hat. And like the guy who smells his

fingers before doing the ritual. The guy who wears brown shoes. Can I be load ass? No. No. No, no, no. I got a name for you. I'm serpent of the com lords. Oh, that's a good one. All right, Alistair. But maybe change it, maybe just changes that we can tell everybody what it is. The third founder, Woodman, he had the, first had the name magna est veritas at pravil a bit, which meant truth is might. Truth is mighty and will prevail. Also, big up to 299. Yeah, they had women there, huh? Yeah, women, cute women. One of them had a bird hat. Bird hat. Yeah, it was a pretty cool bird hat. I'm not saying they're all together sane, but they were there. I would say they are all together bored. Yes, I would agree with that.

Yeah. The other name that Woodman had was Vincent Omnia Veritas, which means truth conquers all, which is pretty much the same thing, but just is sounds a little cool. It's what you do with jokes all the time. You got to take out all the nonessential words. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Guess what? I made us golden dawn names. He did. I did. I worked really hard on these too hard. Some might say I quote unquote wasted an afternoon. Well, no, they would be wrong. No, there's no wasting the afternoon when you're looking up golden dawn names for your friends. That's that's exciting. That's creating bonds up a lesser future when we're all living in houses next to each other with our families and our kids are all dressed up with little like ferro hats

on. Yeah, we're doing barbecues next to the pool. Good barbecues. You're gonna be the best barbecues. We'd have to eat a lot of cum though. Not in front of the children. So let's start with mine. Mine that I gave myself. Canis kibum ex luto. That means dog meat of the dirt. Henry, I gave you the name. Duobus, Ijitor existentibus decoy or vobus, which means two real for you. Yeah. This is what I'm saying, man. The number two, the number four. Hell yeah, dude. I'm gonna be telling everybody I'm changing my rep in Brooklyn. Oh, I think there's a knock on the door. Oh, oh, it's all these hot babes. Whoa. So awesome. It's gone to the pool. Ben, I did use special. Thank you. I gave I'm going to give you three names to choose from. Whoa, you can choose

from one of three names. The first one is callitum effercio, which translates to hot stuff. Hot stuff. Hot stuff. The second one is paidus aeus domos, meaning his feet are houses. I choose that one. I do like that one. The third one is quodam vero bonum tempus, which loosely translates to kind of fun. Kind of fun. Kind of fun. Huh. I gotta go middle. I gotta go my feet or house. Yeah, definitely. Payday's Elias. Payday's Elias domos. Can you say it even? Can you even say that? What is it again? Payday's aeus domos. Yeah. You just say it. Paydos, alumus. Yeah. Yeah, say it again. I don't know. At some point, I think I'm just gonna be, you know, feel like I'm ordering from an Indian restaurant or something. I don't know what's happening. I want to say mine.

Duobus agitar existentibus decoyar vobus. Did I just make all the women orgasm? Yeah. Canus kibum ex luto. And Marcus made them all leave. Oh, sorry. No one likes ex luto. Just dog meat in the dirt or whatever. Now, what is the purpose of these magical names, Marcus? Well, why don't we let Transmagician Dion Fortune tell us? In my own experience of the operation, the utterance to myself of my magical name led to the picturing of myself in an idealized form, not differing in type, but upon an altogether grander scale, superhuman in fact, but recognizable as myself, as a statue more than life size, may yet be a good likeness. I could not identify myself with it unless I uttered my magical name. That's very cool. I guess you could say that.

Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. Okay, so let's give some examples on that. For example, Alistair Crowley's Golden Dawn magical name, Perderabo, or I Will Endure to the End, which means he must be blown for three hours. Yeah, it seems like it. Yeah. The full name was Frater Perderabo, which literally translates to Brother of Time, which means he has the coolest Golden Dawn name out of everyone. I mean, Alistair Crowley did it all much better than all of the rest of them. He was the only one who was like the real deal. Yeah. Yeah, he was actually doing shit. Like he was all about it's like, let's fuck all this, let's actually do something. Personally, I actually do have in, you know, my own studies, I do actually have a real magical

name that I came upon through automatic writing. But some people, including myself, believe that a true magical name, keep it a secret. Don't tell anyone. Yeah, because then they have power over you. Yeah. So what's yours, Marcus? Secret. So close that we almost broke. Yeah. Trickery. Yeah. And I got it through automatic writing, which we'll talk about on a later episode. It's just essentially writing nonsense until something finally jumps out at you. It's accessing your subconscious and kind of going into a transmode until something comes out that speaks to you, that you feel like you've accessed something. It's single man behavior. I did do it when I was very single. Oh, right. What's your secret name, Marcus? Not going to tell you. Oh,

so close. We'll try one more time later on. So as I understand it, and this is something that gets a little, that got a little muddy for me, these magical names are labels that one uses to identify the quote unquote body of light or magical double as Michael Aquino of the Temple of Set put it, the one accesses through transmeditation techniques, which meditation techniques way too complicated for us to go into here, way too boring for us to go into here. It's a great thing to study, but not necessarily something to hear someone talk about. But if you would like to know more about transmeditation techniques, you can go and check out the Golden Dawn transmeditation document, Flying Roll 25. Now, what is interesting is that which a Flying Roll 25 also sounds like

a Burrito Brothers like album. Yeah, or a good sushi roll. Yes. But we're talking about if we want to equate it to something as avatars in a video game. The idea, again, is that you project yourself out into the hologram and you use that symbolism as a thing to hold on to, which is what all of this is about. It's creating a vocabulary to manipulate reality with. And so you visualize yourself as separate from yourself in a manipulatable reality, and then you can do it like the character from NBC's show heroes. Heroes reborn to the video games Thursdays at 8 p.m. on NBC. We need those live viewers to watch tonight. So not Hulu. I mean, it'd be great if you could just watch it on the TV, you know. So as we said, the Golden Dawn based their degrees on the Tree of Life, which meant

by means of visualization and ceremonial magic, the magician had to feel that he or she was fully engaging with each sphere of consciousness on the way up. Now the props for these rituals. Props are very big. Props are huge. Each one of these magicians was a regular character. You had to have your props in order to really focus your energy in creating the potent magic ritual. So these were all charted upon the Tree of Consciousness, or the Tree of Life. So these included various precious stones, perfumes, minerals, and sacred plants. Each one was assigned to a specific god or goddess. And these were known as magical correspondences. And you know these magical correspondences, it's sort of like there's a really interesting book

called the Cosmic Serpent that's about these Amazonian tribespeople. The way that they found out that certain plans did medicinal things is that they would eat magic mushrooms and then they said, they would tell scientists, they came down and they're like, well, how did you figure out that this cured like the psoriasis and this to this? And they're like, well, we take the magic and then the plants tell us. And we see their DNA, essentially. They called the Cosmic Serpent. This is how they do this, right? So yes, you could say that the perfumes and the stones and the colors were all assigned completely randomly by Mathers as a super nerd who's just got like plenty of times to build a big fucking D&D like campaign for you at the

Golden Dawn. But what they say is that using the transmeditation, these looking at symbols of the tarot in combination with the spheres of the Tree of Life, that they told them these things. They told them that these perfumes worked and that these stones work and that these colors correspond. That's just what they saw. So it's all built upon these meditation like trans sessions. They were tripping nuts though. No, they were not. They were not. They were totally sober. But the native people were tripping nuts. Yes, the native people were, yeah, they were having a great time. So this entire thing is based off of mushroom logic? No, it was sort of, but these were white people. You know how like, what's the difference, Henry? This is the thing, right?

Other cultures have a good time. White people do everything so serious they trip balls. You know what I mean? It's like the Nazis. The Nazis were so serious they believe that they found like when they found out, what was the name of the spiritual elixir? Vril? Vril. Yeah. That's just being so serious. You're tripping nuts. Oh, I see. It makes you highly just unrelatable and very difficult to negotiate with. Yeah, that's true. And sometimes horribly violent and very cruel. Yeah, it's not a good way to do things. So as far as the gods went with the golden dawn, they used these gods to represent certain psychological aspects. What they did was identify themselves and their inner being with whatever God or goddess corresponded with what they were searching for because they thought

that ritual through this they could discover their true inner potential by ruling and controlling the gods for their own purposes rather than the other way around. Active will versus passive will once again. It's like I associate myself with LeBron James. You do? Yes. In what way? Tenacious, tall and dark. But all right. So these people, they believe that they could use the power of the gods to assist them in their journey into either the subconscious and or the mystic imagination, which is the spirit realm. Yeah. To go out, talk to gods, talk to other spirits. And you could say mystic imagination means that they're making it all up. Yeah, but they're not. No, mystic imagination is a good name for a school bus. If I was a bus driver, I'd say, come on, jump in the

mystic imagination. I just feel like I wouldn't make it to school if I was driving a bus called the mystic imagination because the whole time it'd be like, man, this whole thing's a fucking trap, man, this whole thing is all, yo, we're going to Six Legs. People think the teachers teach, the bus driver teaches life. So let's get into what these rituals actually entail. Now ritual magic is meant to stimulate all the five senses. First of all, sight, you got to look the part. I mean, if you want to simplify it, if you want to invoke Superman, wear fucking cape. The second is sound. This is where sacred god names, chants, and invocations come in. Certain names have certain vibrations that access certain parts of our subconsciousness, or if you're going

full on with it, access certain gods. As we'll see with the interview we do in just a little bit, we're going to go into that just a little bit more. Taste, this is why, where you have the sacrament, where you've got to have something that connects you to a certain god. For example, that's why Crowley used so much cum. That's a problem that in these rituals when you're tasting, it can't be like when you quickly swallow the cum, you have to, you have to truly, and it's literally, if you read the sex manuals and what they talk about is that you're supposed to absorb the cum through the upper palate of your mouth. So you're not even supposed to swallow it, it's supposed to just sit and dissolve in there. Kind of get in there, like a, one of those

listerine breath strips. Yeah, exactly. But now you're just, now you're cooking them a fire. Instead of smelling like mint, you smell like sour cum all the time. Yeah, like sour cum. Next up is smell that's incense perfumes that correspond to your deity, which are all clearly laid out in the hermetic chart of magical correspondences. They figured all this stuff out beforehand, so you're not just stabbing in the dark here. And then of course touch, it's heightening your tactile awareness through transmeditation and various other techniques. Yes, and you do that, and the idea is to completely absorb yourself into the ritual to truly, because we will talk about a time with magic is that it's mostly starts with self-hypnosis.

You have to believe it's real and believe that you're actually manipulating reality. And so what they do is they build a full surround sound fucking system of magic stuff so that they don't even think of the outside world. Right. Sort of like one of those chambers, right? Like a sensory deprivation chamber. That's how I keep my girlfriend. You just keep her in one of those? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I just, I only feed her. So the symbols of ritual magic. One of the most widely recognized symbols is the sacred circle. The sacred circle, you see it every time you see a movie or a TV show or a comic book of somebody doing any sort of magical ritual, you always see the circle. This is where the magician performs

invocations and incantations. The reason why the circle is important is because it's a symbol of containment and oneness that represents the godhead and the sacred source of self-knowledge that the magician seeks to access. You really got to be a designer with all this. What is the circle? But I mean, you got to paint it out. You got to make it look cool. Yeah, you got to make it look cool. Everything's got to look cool. Yeah, here's how you make it look cool. You inscribe the sacred names of the gods or god that you hope to invoke. For example, sacred names, if you want to know where the sacred name is, an example of the Judeo-Christian god, the sacred names there would be Yahweh, Jehovah, or the secret Jewish name of God that no one's allowed to say. Exactly. And

you also have to inscribe what you hope to accomplish with the ritual. And from a practical perspective, when we're getting practical with it, you got to make sure that the circle is large enough for both you and your group of magicians to move around freely with it. Also, no, you're going to be swinging around a sword. Big sword, which is really true. And you're going to need to be there for a while. So bring snacks. Bring snacks, practice maybe with fake swords. I mean, he doesn't have to, but the thing is, the more real it could be because then they're like, ah, but it's truly dangerous. Yeah, right. I'm just saying for the first go around, make sure the circle's big enough. Yeah, definitely make sure the circle's big enough.

Air on the side of the circle being too big. Well, go too small and make it bigger. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Start as big as you can get it. Yeah, whittle it down. Whittle it down. Use the engineer's creed. Something is not done when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. Well, I just busted your union in your fired engineer. I don't give a shit about your creed. Yeah, whatever, Scott Walker. Dogme, what's your magic name? Not even going to tell you a single letter that's in it. We will find out. I bet the letter N is in it. Am I right? I don't know. You might, it might be, might not be. I don't know.

Of course, the circle is not the only shape that you can use. There's also the triangle for while the circle is used to invoke higher spirits like gods, goddesses, archangels. The triangle is used to evoke lesser and sometimes evil spirits through spells or words of power. Those are cabalistic names of power. Cool. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, that's when you're trying to summon a demon. Say you're trying to summon Beelzebub to fuck somebody up. But it's the idea of what we talked about with Necromancy's idea that you would get it, you would call a demon up and you'd check him and then you'd ask him for something like, I want Wheaties to be darker. Oh, I hope that there's the Chalupa comes back. Oh no, you don't ask. Chalupa didn't go nowhere.

What? The Chalupa's been around. You don't ask, you tell. In fact, that's the difference. You evoke evil spirits. You evoke the lesser demons. You invoke the higher spirits. It's the difference between asking and telling. You ask a god, you tell a demon. Oh, but the demon is so busy. You can't put that pussy up on a pedestal. That's what I know. That's what I say. Why do demons have it rough? What have they really done? What have they done to anybody? Well, they mostly, I mean, the big thing is that six million Jews are dead. That's not the demons. Henry, this is not about. It starts from somewhere. Well, what, you're evoking the lesser spirit. That's you're restraining it and using it for your own purpose. You know half the time Dick Cheney shows up in that circle too and

he's like, yeah, yeah. So it's like, tell me, you guys, you like bugles? I like the flavorless bugles, whatever sharp it hurts to eat and tastes like cardboard. And I would believe his breath probably smells like sour gum. So Golden Dawn magicians, they believed that if you weren't careful with the triangle, with the lesser spirits, they could possess you. What they thought is that you would summon the higher gods, you could ask them, Hey, I need this, please do this for me. And they could choose whether to do it or not. But the lesser spirits, you had power over that, like you had ultimate power over them, you would not let them go unless you chose to let them go while the gods could leave at any time. Well, they're gods. Yeah, they're gods. Exactly. Again,

like the New York Yankees. Joe but Chamberlain can come into your bar and sexually molest as many waitresses as he likes, because he's a New York Yankee. You are referencing a five year old player and you only know that because he did that at the village poor. So while the Golden Dawn considered the triangle and the evoking of spirits, they tended to stay away from it. They considered it to be low magic. The one who reveled in it and just loved it and believed it to be what one should do with magic. A former member who broke off, did his own thing, Alistair Crowley, who we will discuss at length in the next episode, The Left Hand Path. Yeah. So great. Yeah. We covered a lot of stuff. Yeah. All right.

So we got, we got Kabbalah. We got Hermetic, what? The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. We got a whole bunch of Chalupa talk. Yeah, we got this going on, man. Halloween's almost here, man. Halloween's almost here. That's what we're doing, man. We're going to be coming back with Left Hand Magic here real soon. We're going to be doing a special one next week and we're also doing something real special coming up for episode 200. Yeah, you're going to like it and if you don't, you can go fuck yourself. Please. Well, you know, whatever podcast you can always turn it off. But we're going to do an interview, aren't we? Yeah, we're going to do an interview right now. We, our very own Chaos Magician, Ragnar,

is going to field some of the listener questions and also explain the ups and downs of use magic to get that bush. And he's Icelandic. His accent leads you to believe he's telling the truth and I'm going to stand by that. Yeah. I mean, and this is what we're talking about. We're going to be covering Chaos Magic at length in a later episode, but this is to give you, after us talking about all of this goofy bullshit, this is to kind of give you an insight into how this can actually work. Let magic do the work for you. Right. But, yes, let us listen to our interview with Ragnar. DING DING DING DING DING DING

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING Do I hear the pitter- Do I hear the pitter-patter of the tiny feet of a wizard?! Uh-oh! It's a wizard! Ragnar is with us. Thanks so much for being here, Ragnar.

This is a show within the show. Kind of excited. Thank you for having me. He's staring at me, right? As he's staring at me, I'm getting hard. Is this magic, Ragnar? Am I changing as a man? Oh, I'm giving you the penis magic.

Whoa! Well, as an eyewitness, I will say it is working. Oh, my goodness, Henry. Rock hard. Yeah. Yeah, I got a stubs. Looking good. Ragnar, we've actually mentioned you on the show quite a bit

with your experiences with hermetic magic and sort of how you put it together in your own chaos fashion. And we're very excited. I think my first question would be, is what got you started? Okay, I guess if you go all the way back, it was that my father introduced me to Norse mythology really early and I was into that and I would read any folklore I could get my hands on. And then, you know, I went through a little teen phase

with a little altar on my CD player and whatever. And, you know, I'd be getting all dark and, you know, that was all for show. And then that all started to seem very silly. And a few years passed and I think... I want to say that is a different teenage phase than most people go through. I was really into that John Belushi scene where he flew into the sorority house and the woman was topless there and I paused that a lot. I listened to a lot of corn.

Yeah, I wore a Texas Chainsaw Massacre shirt and listened to a lot of Marilyn Manson and then I was like, you don't get me. I was thinking Kid Rock was a pretty cool guy. Yeah, my first concert, Kid Rock. But then, Ragnar, he had an altar. So kind of a different teenage experience, different kind of rebellion. You all had it. You just don't want to admit to it.

So, yeah, so, yeah, a few years passed and then I guess it's probably Grant Morrison and Alan Moore who, as crazy as it seems, I mean, these two comic book authors are probably, most people's entryway into magic these days. It's true. It's what got me into it. It's got what got Marcus into it. Absolutely. Grant Morrison specifically. And why was that?

Was there a comic book specifically that they had created? Yeah, The Invisibles. Okay. Without a doubt, yeah. And it wasn't actually until I read The Invisibles and loved it and really dug like the message behind it, but it wasn't until I became friends with Ragnar when Ragnar really explains like,

oh wait, there's a whole different layer to this comic book besides just super cool revolution. Oh, I think a lot of people like, you know, we're approaching it from that way and he's been really open about it in interviews and discussing that. And I had the fortune of meeting him back when I was what, 19, something like that. And that really like set things going. I managed to have a beer with a guy and listen to him speak a little bit. Lovely guy, by the way.

Like really nice to be in a room with him. But... Does he wear like a cone hat? Like outside? That's actually a really good point because that was one of the things, like I said, like I dabbled in it like when it was a teenager and I didn't know anything about it and then it was all for show. And then you saw this guy and he's just wearing like a black Armani suit

and he's talking about doing like a magical performance for corporations teaching them to use logos to influence people. He's talking about it all on those terms and it's as sinister as it sounded. It's still like, you know, you don't have to wear anything. You can just wear whatever you're comfortable in and you can use it in any aspect of life. So that kind of showed me that it could, you know, could fit into anybody's life. And that was right around the time that BP British Petroleum changed their logo

to the BP that we know now and then remember that oil spill. So maybe he didn't do the magic right. I just think it was great that they allowed pelicans to be so slippery. Yeah, it's a fun kind of a... It's fun. It's like lube. What happened to the water? Oh, it's nothing but a duck slip and slide now. But yeah, so basically shortly after that I started doing my own rituals

and started working along. It's all along chaos magic. So chaos magic incorporates a lot of different disciplines and whatever kind of you feel works. And in my case, I use some shamanism. I use some of the Norse mythology that had afford me when I was younger and obviously Gnosticism and some of this other stuff that is, you know, pops up frequently in chaos magic.

Because really what it's about is... Tell me if you agree. What we were talking about on the show is that it's about self-hypnosis. And whatever it is that you can do, it's like you first have to create your own reality. You have to change your perspective so concretely that you can then manipulate reality. Like you do a thing where you're essentially like... And so you have to build your magical beliefs out of things you actually believe in

or could believe in so that you can infuse it with meaning and then use it in your own life, correct? Yeah, absolutely. And that's like the example that he, and I think Peter Carroll used as well, is that you can have guardian angels to create your protective circle with or you can just use the JLA if that works for you. Whatever symbols work as a protective thing for you based on how you were raised and your belief system make it work.

So like a Pillsbury Doughboy. Yeah, four of those protecting you. I would love that. Never mess with my Pillsbury Doughboy. Just absorbing all the cream cheese that flies all your way making delicious little hors d'oeuvres, man. For example, Ben, probably one of the big ones in your pantheon would be Papa John. Papa John himself!

And his Camaro. Very cool. But yeah, the point is that you can use anything that you want. The whole thing is, it's very open. Did you have any formal schooling at all? Have you ever spoken with anybody from the Golden Dawn or the OTO or any of those things that still sort of exist? Or the Temple of Set, which took all the fun out of Satanism?

Well, I went to the Icelandic Hogwarts, of course. Yes, yes, yes. But there's just the eating rock and rotten shark and blowing the instructors. York was my instructor. Yeah, you did a quick internship with the Hildefiq. Yeah, of course. Yeah, does something like that, like the Icelandic mythology, did that work into it at all? Because we've discussed the Hildefiq many a time here on the show.

It would have been mostly Odin, because Odin to me is, and not just to me, he is. He's a shamanic creature. What am I trying to say? Figure. Figure, there we go. Because, yeah, you know, there's no real parallel between the Norse mythology and something like, you know, hermeticism or what have you. But there is this figure who, in Iceland at that time, and in the Nordic countries at that time, only women would do sather. They were the only ones who would do magic.

And it was considered homosexual to be a man doing magic. You would not do that unless you were actively a homosexual. So for the main figure, the linchpin in the entire mythology, to be actively doing magic was a really strange thing. And there have been a lot of essays written about this, what that means, like what kind of figure he was then. But here's a man who sacrificed his eye for knowledge, who hung himself upside down from the gallows to seek knowledge. He was putting himself through all these trials. So he's a shamanic figure. And I think there is a version of Norse mythology that precedes the one that we know today, where he is more like something you would see in the Amazon rainforest

rather than this Hellenistic influence that came into it later. Isn't there a lot about Norse mythology that was lost throughout the years when the Christians came in and, of course, buried all of the people up to their necks and said, either you can either be Christians or you can be dead? Well, I mean, the only sources we have are Christian writers writing long after the fact. But actually, the transformation between the two into Christianity, the Reformation and what have you, that was actually pretty peaceful. What they did was they negotiated kind of a truce where they did, yeah, you can still practice your own beliefs. Just, you know, keep it on the down low. You can eat your horse, even though the Bible says no.

Just go into your horse-eating shed and you'll be fine. Yeah, we just don't want to see it. The Pope is all the way in Italy. You're fine. So who's don't ask, don't tell? Oh, yeah, big time. So when did you get fully into magical research? When that started, we've been talking about it as like this sort of solitary experience where you kind of have to go away and kind of meditate and figure it out for yourself.

Did you have that period or was it a lot more casual? Well, definitely meditation is the basis for anything. Like meditation and keeping a magical diary and these kind of things. Putting yourself in the mindset like you were saying before. What do you put in your magical diary? Okay, so the distinction between schizophrenia and magical thinking is a really thin line. Basically, you're overinterpreting everything. You're looking into everything as it is a symbol or some sort of message from outside of yourself or what it is probably, it's your subconscious.

You're having a dialogue with your subconscious. So you're kind of logging anything that you think of is of importance. It could be dreams. It could be anything that happened to you during the day, patterns that you're noticing. Like I say, you do too much of that and you're just slipping into full-on acid burnout schizophrenia. What I do personally with my magical journal is that it's things that I come across while meditating. Like letting my mind essentially wander to wherever it wants to go, whoever it happens to speak to, while just kind of letting everything be explorative. And then once I'm done, once I snap out of it, or really once it's, I've come across something that I believe is important.

That's when I'll stop and write everything down. So it'll go from like, I met a magic pegasus who wished me to the land of money today, and to like, maybe I should start wearing sports jerseys, that kind of thing. No, it's like the other day I came upon a fish made of nanobots that was battling against skinny demon-like creatures and was talking about the sorts of things that go inside. A lot like Austin Spear talks about like the certain subconscious parts of yourself that live within you. That's a big part of what I do. Well, remember every time you write in your journal and your diary, life's just passing you by, you know,

and there's so much out there that you can go and experience it. So that's the thing, Ben, is that you do it so you can experience those things better. More fully. Yeah, more fully. Like beer in a ballgame. Yeah, sure. The diary is the beer, and then your room is the ballgame. Hot dog at the ballgame.

A hot dog at the ballgame. Actually, I can put it in positive terms. It's like being a child. It's holding on to your childlike view of the world. You know, you're seeing magic in things. You're seeing some wandering things. It's about holding on to that. It really is.

Right. I still want to see this brochure for Icelandic Hogwarts. It seems like it would be very cruel. Right? Are teachers in Iceland cruel? Oh, they're lovely. Right. But the one question is, so how is this different than like prayer?

Right? And because obviously people, they're always asking God for something. At no point is someone like, dear Jesus, and he's just like, oh, great. I'm not going to get begged to save their child from cancer. At no point are they just like, thank you. You know, they have to work really hard. So do you always have to have an endgame when you perform a ritual? Well, I think there are definitely magical tenants of Christianity.

I mean, what is a prayer except a type of wish? And what is amen except the type of rhythmical chanting that you're doing? You actually, they've looked into this and the ome sound, the amen, the shalom, all these open vowel ending with nasal, like an M or an N. What that does, it creates this vibration that kind of puts your brain in the right mindset. So this rocking back and forth and making this kind of sound is to put you in a meditative state. So Christianity has maybe moved away from some of these things, but you can find all this stuff buried in there. Well, to answer your question as far as what the difference, what is different between magic and prayer,

is that prayer, it's both will, but it's the difference between passive will and active will. Well, because chaos magic specifically, like when you read about it, the idea of, you know, the original hermetic magic and kind of Kabbalah study was about knowledge and like learning and making the rituals and learning about the archetypes. But chaos magic was specifically about doing something. And it's the thing they always talk about, Satanism is the idea that like prayer is an empty gesture because all you're doing is asking and not doing something towards the goal. Where chaos magic, the idea is that you're trying to use symbolism to change reality.

And that was always one of my major conflicts with Christianity, especially the evangelical brain that I grew up in, everyone was asking for things, giving money to the church and they would just go back to their sheds and take a nap. There was very, very little action. You have to have the action with the ceremony, with the ritual. As far as chaos magic goes, yes, it's about, I guess, the way I've seen it put is that it's a technology. It's like it's the technology of consciousness, is that it's actually something, using the consciousness that you have to actually make something happen through the use of techniques, worries.

A lot of the other stuff is more like, I don't know, ritual. It's not necessarily practical techniques. Intellectual, it's like research. It's writing a book about what you can do for magic and most of it's nonsense. I mean, because that's what we talk about, is that what did the Golden Dawn actually accomplish? Nothing. Well, sure. I mean, it's the same thing as writing for sports illustrated.

It doesn't mean you can play football. Yes. They just talk about it, but they don't actually get involved with it. Now, Ragnar, what are some good stories about magic and results? What are some things you'd like to share, but rituals you've done, and the way they've gone good, and the way they've gone bad? Okay, so I'll tell you about the good one first. The first really big ritual that I did that had weeks, months of preparation. Like with a lot of magical practitioners, it tends to happen when you're at some kind of loop on your life.

It shouldn't be like that. You should be practicing it all the time. But with a lot of people, it's when they want to change something in their life because they feel something isn't working out. In my case, I just broke up with a girlfriend of a long-term relationship, and I packed up my whole life and I moved over to Italy, moved to Rome. Poor baby. Poor baby. Poor baby. Poor baby.

Poor baby. Poor baby. Poor baby. Poor baby. Poor baby. Poor baby. Poor baby. Poor baby.

I wanted to do a ritual that would spark, I'm just going to talk openly about this, I don't know about this to anyone really, that would spark some kind of activity and fertility and about making things, be more creative. I wanted to get my writing done. So the ritual was all centered around that. I knew that would be the key thing of it. I did it in several stages. So the first stage, I did something that I called spamomency. So at that time I was using an email which was getting all these random word generators spam. So they would fill the body of the messages with all these phrases that they'd grab

automatically from different books that were out of copyright. So you'd get these things, it would just like jumbled up text, but I would see a certain pattern coming out of it. And here's the magical thinking, you know, you're over analyzing things. So I would see a certain pattern coming through that. And I felt that was indicating sort of the direction it had to take it. I did a second step. This was influenced by the situationist. And what they would do would be to, for example, go to a city with a map of a different city. So you'd go, I went to Rome using a map of London, and I tried to make my way through the old part of town with a London map. And of course, obviously got lost. And I decided I'd go to five bookstores. And each bookstore

that I would stumble into, I'd go to the fifth shelf, fifth, you know, fifth book and so on, fifth page, fifth line, and I write it down randomly, all in Italian. So I did this, came back, asked my friend who spoke Italian, he was Italian, and to translate the text that I had. And it was a perfectly concise bit of text, like a paragraph, which is bizarre because I had taken it so randomly from like an agricultural manual and a novel and whatnot. And it was all to do with plowing and, you know, laying seeds and, you know, growing from the all very fertility oriented. And the plow was appeared twice in it from two different sources. That would be something I'd be incorporating into it. So that was kind of like, that was my way of kind of dividing my way towards and the

whole time I'm meditating quite heavily and trying to just get at how I'm going to phrase this, what is going to be the parameters of my ritual. When I actually get to the thing, it's, it takes me about one day, I mark out an area, I surround the area with mirrors of myself, because it was also a way of kind of like engaging myself in certain flaws that I wanted to engage with. And I had ordered from Amsterdam a sizable bag of Amanita muscaria fly agaric, which are the red mushrooms with the little white dots that you see in Alice in Wonderland. So, you know, you can dismiss everything I say from now on. So basically, I take that and that is a horror of a mushroom that is like go straight to your stomach. It's a type of poison. It's very different

from the other psychedelics you can do. It's very intense. And yeah, I spent, there was a large amount of meditation, then I started actively using a sitchel that I had created around the symbol of Aries and the plow that I'd kind of, those have been the key things that I worked with. And like, what did you do with the spam? So the spam, those sentences, you incorporated into, with the sentences that you pulled from the books, like I call the spamomancy because of the form of divination. It was just like tea leaves. Oh, so you were looking at, this is the direction you need to go in. Yeah, yeah. And so it's just like, you saw this and all this stuff about agric, all the stuff about plowing and fertility was coming out in, in the spam stuff. That came

more in the book thing when I went to the bookstores, but it had already kind of led me in that direction. Yeah, with the interesting. So I can't do it anymore because I don't get these wonderful emails anymore. But so yeah, I did this. And what I, what happened there is I saw myself in the mirror as an independent entity moving between mirror to mirror in the room with me. And I had a conversation with myself standing up, turning his back to me as I was talking to him and so on. And I spent a while in that room and I've, you know, I've taken hallucinogenics before. I know what to expect. It's nothing close to this. So this was a really strange experience. And I can't, I really go into more detail other than I felt like I had pushed this sigil out of me and into

this kind of mirror image of myself. And things really started to happen after that. About three weeks after that, I started to see a massive difference in a number of facets of my life. Did you have something in your head that you wanted to resolve the entire time? Or was it just sort of like, do you let the trip take you? Who's in charge of who in the situation? I had a very clear intent the whole time. And that was bound into the sigil that I was using. Like that was what I was projecting during the ritual. But I was also trying to like kind of commune with myself. How specific was your intent? Like, is it good to go in with a very specific intent or is it good? Because that thing in my head, when I was doing a ritual, I look at it in

terms of like, I literally visualize, like when I was doing the sigil to get heroes, I'll put it this way. I imagined my tape playing in the room. And while I was masturbating, I was imagining them discussing me and looking at the headshot and them looking at the other guy's headshot and like looking at this thing and being like, we like this guy. And I imagine them calling my agent, like doing like little pieces. And I don't know if that helps. But do you feel, do you, or is it better to do something like that where it's more open ended, where shit just kind of flies in and out? I would definitely say to do it like you were saying, like, that's how I've done it before in sins. I've done it very specific, even to the point where I'm, if I phrase it as an actual

sentence and then break that sentence down into a symbol, I would put it, let's say, I don't know, I want to lose 50 pounds or something. And I'll say, I am this many pounds. I'm gonna, I'm gonna refer to the state that I'm going to be once the wish is obtained. Instead of saying, I wish this would happen. That's such a weak way of saying it. But in this case, there was a very clear intent. It was just bifurcated. So your hand like, one hand just, it was a sexual thing as well. It was just about getting laid, getting, you know, back out there. Most magic. No, don't be ashamed. That's what you do it for. Yeah. And the other thing was like creative, like fertility. So it was these two kind of sentences. And you know, I, not to put it too bluntly, had a lot of success in both

the way. Boom. Yeah. Yeah. That's what this is about. But also fine love. I also believe that a part of the like, what we were talking about before we started recording is that once I started incorporating magic into my life, a lot of shit fucking blew open in my life. There was a lot of stuff that was like both career and also like meeting a woman, meeting a bunch of shit that kind of like all over the place. It provides a lot of chaos because if you're not too specific about your fucking goals, it's just going to pop in because creativity is both it's like, it's both like you can grow a rose, but then there's a bunch of fucking crazy snarl and vines that also will come shooting out. Yeah. If you're not specific, it's like it will get you to where you want to go,

but it'll, imagine it like say, you say, I want to get over there. I want something to take me over there just across town. If you're not careful, you're going to get Godzilla to take you across town and Godzilla is going to fuck up everything along the way. Yeah. He's $15 for every half mile travels. Godzilla is very, very, very expensive. Petty cap. We do have to think about Henry jerking off to a five or six middle-aged men. So you can't find that clip on Pornhub. No, no, no, because if you did, it would have to be one of those where it's got a lot of the thumb downs. Yeah. They have the rating system on Pornhub. Oh, I know. All the women are beautiful. We make a sex tape, we get a 40%. I mean, that's how to say that. Maybe the one place where I

shouldn't get hate. I agree. Anyway, so what's a time it went bad? Okay. So actually, before we get to that, I wanted to ask one more question about the, like the actual good ritual. How did you come up with these, like the spam of Nancy and, you know, going to London and, you know, going to or going to Rome and using the map of London and all that. How did you come up with that specific set of steps? Was it just like, I want to do this or I want to do that? Or was there some sort of guideline to it? No, that was really just came out of myself. But I mean, I'm very influenced by the situation is and dataism and those people were obviously working with something that was, you know, related to magic and subconscious. They're dealing with

that kind of shit. Absolutely. And like automatic writing and all these things of like trying to access yourself conscious through like some repetitive activity and randomness and chaos. So far there was a good fit. And yeah, of course, like before, oldenism and and narcissism. So situational is that that is like a sort of chaos? Like what is situational is situation is were French movement of intellectuals that kind of proceed the 1968, the summer of 1968 in Paris and the and the revolt there, or protests or whatever you and they are kind of a precursor to the punks and some of a lot of the philosophies of punk rock. So that's about as deep that I'm going to get into it. That is like the philosophy that gets you laid again. This is what I'm talking

about. This is how you can fix your life, guys, in a way that's really weird. You can make your whole life if you want to be weird all the time. Guess what? Do this shit. My life's been weird for about a year now. It's been great. Very exciting. Yeah, well, you can't guarantee an NBC show. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's just not doing well in the ratings. Yeah, it's doing very well. But I think but I think you do make a valid point there, Ben. It's like to make I think a part of it is to make realistic goals. You know, it's like you're not going to do a schedule to make you president of the United States like that's not going to work. No, you already just got to this point, right? It's just like I only did that when I had already

known that my my audition was going to the test. I feel like that's what it is. It's it's whatever you can do to push it in your favor where things are going on. You know, it's just like I did things a little rituals that are just like you try to and then I just do it every day. There are rituals that I do on the 11s every day. There are things that I do every single day before I go to sleep because it keeps you fucking keeps the momentum going. Sure, because that's what it's all about. It doesn't matter if it's real or not. A lot of it is just about focusing will and a lot of it is just about having some sort of focus in your life to keep shit at the forefront and to keep you focused. I truly believe like a lot of it is within a lot of it's subconscious, but I truly

believe there is some some crazy way that you're able to influence things outside of you. And I see it kind of like you were talking about these little ways you influence it. Like you have to first have made the steps to get to that point. I see it like curling, you know the sport. You have a little broom. You create that little friction. It might not even be doing anything, but it's like you know you can influence that little puck and how fast it's going. Yeah exactly by by being a fat dude swinging beer next to it with a with a broom. You can do that. I mean there's a lot of jerk off motions in both. Which is kind of good. All right now give us what everybody wanted which is what's bad. What's the worst. Because that's the thing. Also just know you need

to do a lot of research. If you just fucking jump into this shit, you are going to ruin your life. That is it is very easy to ruin your life. Right so you could have had a show on CBS. Yeah so the other one was actually also in Italy that was in Florence. That was a few years earlier and I hadn't done as much research. Hadn't done as much preparation. I was really cavalier about it. So what I did was I had certain things going in my life that I was a little bit worried about. And you know again it had to kind of do with fertility and things like that. But it was nothing to do with love or such things at that point. So I created a composite God for myself. Like a bastard God made out of elements of different older Babylonian deities and a couple of Mayan ones.

So just smashed it all together. Took different you know symbolism that were associated with these gods. Created it. I drew it up. I created it in clay. I worshiped it. I had this little thing that I made for myself. And I figured this was brilliant. Like I had this all worked out. I can just this is ultimate chaos magic. I'm just mix and matching like different elements. And then I go out there the an hour after I land in Florence and I had this whole thing prepared beforehand. I just watched my life start falling apart in the way that this ritual was targeted at in those aspects of my life. And it just starts falling apart. And over a week just I have to rebuild everything from scratch. Yeah the opposite of what you wanted to happen.

Oh ruining relationship with family members. Like a lot of things went awry. And it was just because I had approached this with a really stupid attitude and kind of playing with things that didn't understand. Well what do you think that that that happened like creating your own God? Like what why do you think that you think that something just got lost in translation or I just feel like I mean okay even if you don't believe in any of this even though these are some dead deities from silly religions we don't take seriously anymore. They meant something to someone at some point. So they are charged with significance and symbolism and there's a meaning behind them. And you're playing with the symbolism and even if it's just subconscious you might be

creating some toxic blend of different things that you don't know how to control. So I think it was you know whatever lies behind them was what I was mixing up with it. Yeah this sounds really silly say it out loud but it really does have a negative effect tomorrow. If you already don't think this is silly then then it does it. I mean if you think it's silly then it's extra silly. Uh-oh that sounds exciting. So then your entire once you landed you just noticed specifically and you don't think that these things would have gone wrong had you not messed up the ritual. Yeah possibly but that's how this works. Or just anything the problem is you just you're asking for it's very it's always a monkey's paw agreement. It's one of those things where you're

asking for help and you're asking for like create you're asking for a change and you're asking for all this sort of creative quote-unquote energy to come rush into something and if that's what it is you just don't know what sometimes they have a real sense of irony about what creative energy means. And it could also have been that Ragnar you had like because you did this ritual you had confidence in things that you might not have should have had confidence in. Possibly but I really think like you were saying like I think magic is like the most anarchist libertarian thing you can do you're taking all the power into your own hands and that means all the responsibility in your own hands you're not putting that in some external deity and putting all the responsibility there

so you're playing with something you're playing with yourself so whatever backfires on you you would just have to take it. So they say the difference between religion and magic is that religion is that you you prostrate yourself in front of god and you want to be you you look to your god and you and you say and you kneel before the god where magic is standing up and being the god and it's like being Peyton Manning when the Broncos fell to shit that was that was his fault that's right that was his fault he fucked it up and what is Peyton Manning what does he own Papa John he owns 30 of him in Colorado it's unbelievable um that's very so do we want to get to some listener questions yes we have a couple of listener questions here uh the first

question is from Jeremiah Jeremiah asks how do you magically put nipples on things like if you could cast a spell to put nipples on a chick's butt then really she would have four boobs or somebody's elbows at the office can you destroy Jeremiah Ragnar he is destroyed oh i mean he just came in his pants just now oh it's possible that somebody probably does have nipples on their body just got to find the right gal yeah i think so you never know will india yeah you never know what's happening with people but a serious question from ellie brown uh who by the way thank you so much for sending us the amazing care package yeah ellie sent us a just a fantastic care package with some awesome buttons array harry housing coloring book it's among the coolest halloween

care packages we've ever had yes thank you so much Marcus is smizing yeah i'm smizing that's a smize what's a smize smiling with your eyes yes i'm but what she said here's what she has two questions she said how do you personally as a practitioner of magic rectify the seemingly diametrically opposed views of science and magic what am i gonna take this get your questions for you you're the wizard right i'm not an expert um well i mean chaos magic obviously in the earliest incarnation and what peter carroll was talking about was to incorporate things from um a quantum mechanics and mechanics yeah yeah but i don't know how deep that goes i think it was kind of although i've read some recent interviews peter carroll i think he's building a spaceship right

now yeah i'm kidding that's what i hear that's what i hope he gets it checked out by somebody before he takes us the first pilot oh yeah well you know if you launch a space spaceship off of a cliff you're flying for a little while yeah so that's kind of good but i would start on the ground because it's like kind of a spaceship of the imagination so he's yeah you know there's a science fiction kind of element is on chaos magic yeah it's kind of like what graham orson talks about with the fiction suit you were saying earlier as well henry about alchemy and how that fits into magic oh yeah we were talking about beforehand about the idea it's it's symbolism and so there there is a how you rectify science and magic is the fact that there's like

nothing really different if you if you've already viewed the world as a hologram but we're going to talk about we're what we've already talked about on the show is the fact that most magic posits that what this reality is is a reflection of what the gods are doing and that is essentially just old timey talk for that we are a reflection for the underlying math and so the idea is that if you can really grasp that concept and really believe that we are in a uh manipulatable hologram that's what magic is and it is about perspective because essentially all reality is controlled by a fucking three pound lump of jelly that's in our heads got electricity running through it that is all reality that it's it's it's up in your head you can get shot in the fucking head and it's over

I could stop existing we could all stop existing if one autistic boy gets shot in the head you better be careful if you know one don't let him get shot that's yeah but it's like that's how you and so the idea is like an alchemy what what what we've talked about before is that the the permutation of the metals from lead to gold is not about making money it's not about making gold it's about changing yourself and a part of that is that knowing that all physical things are just a reflection yeah where the physical world is the base metal and the higher being the higher state of being would be gold I hope you're stoned for this yes I want to hold and simultaneously while we're doing this they were of course also inventing several tools that we're using in chemistry

today and and so on so this was at that time there was not a clear distinction between the two now there is more of one but I guess the chaos magicians are kind of blending it together again well chaos a lot of chaos magicians say that magic is the next step in science is that after after science comes magic rather than the other way around and science is helping nature you know I'm one of those who believe that science is a direct line in evolution that we're supposed to combine with technology to go to the stars of course of course we are not quite there yet with the mid human berm and tell me more uncle Henry would you like another would you like another beer yeah yeah very close and we're selling old uncle Henry's knee and tell you all about her

medics and also about how your aunt Natalie is still got it going so yeah any other yeah the the other the other question is what's the most foul thing you've ever used in a spell or magical operation well the one that went well I was using my own blood a little bit so that was about that's about as far as I go what you do with the blood I can't believe what I made in this stuff whatever hey well I I carved the thing into my flesh so this is a damn yeah got to me that's hardcore though yeah why not you know I won't go that far you know I mean I'll jerk off on everything but I'm already doing that anyway yeah no it's very interesting do we have any other questions from listeners that is let's see here well Claude Wilson who helped us out quite a

bit with with the 9-11 magic episode he wanted us to all create ourselves a tulpa the threat the four of us would create a tulpa together and use it to to serve the last podcast community we already have interns though yeah our top is the things that help you climb my ever is no sure if you're counting on a tulpa to help you up Everest I hope you're wearing mittens good luck it's gonna be a cold walk please go in and listen our episode thought forum energy ghosts to learn more about tulpas well thank you so much for being here Ragnar thank you and very illuminating yeah thanks for sharing your experience I would love to hear the people who worked at the bookstores that you walked into and just be like did the guy walk in look at the fifth shelf grab the fifth book and then write down the fifth sentence

yeah he was covered in blood he was talking about all he wants to do is fuck well I still gave him the customer discount because well I hate I hate it when people forget their cards so I hate it when I forget my oh absolutely I did I did too yeah I got a free coffee every fifth book I check out hey there you go that's not oh we were gonna have a guy from the OTO but apparently a magicians are hard to keep tabs off yeah I thought they would be right on time he disappeared into a cloud of smoke I think yeah yeah yeah I'd see somewhere eating cum oh sweet sweet OTO loving that menstrual blood loving that cum yeah I hope you guys are enjoying yourselves and uh yes so please put magic into your life but do so responsibly yes safely what should be my first magical ritual Marcus your

first magical ritual uh well actually can I say can I ask for more Joseph a bank I was about to say I would put your pantheon I would say Papa John's and just a bank yeah yeah that's what I would put Joseph a bank is is definitely the head of your altar and Nixon and Nixon yeah put Richard Nixon in there I just watched our Nixon very good documentary all right Nixon's in well he'll Satan everyone after that interview he definitely talked about how much cum he used to eat yeah he definitely mentioned he didn't talk about how you're slandering oh no wait he did specifically say he ate cum and then you said you ate cum oh yeah before the show began that was actually off the record and I wasn't eating cum for magical purposes I was just curious wow I didn't bring

it up because I didn't think he wanted that exposed on air but then he just brought it all up himself so that's uh fun to watch your friends bury themselves you know that's a good thing I like that hail sweet Satan it is just a wonderful day it is a wonderful day and in all honesty everyone is doing extremely well and thank you guys so much for your support and what is it you find the last podcast on the left page on Facebook if you want to go be driven mad yeah that's a good place you can find all of us on Twitter you can find LP on the left at LP on the left and then Marcus is at Marcus Parks Henry Zabrowski is at Henry loves you and I am at Ben Kissel yeah and that's true yes yes is that true yes is it and if you want your last podcast on the left t-shirt go to

CaveComedyRadio.com slash merch you can get one for $25 and while you're there listen to all the other wonderful Cave Comedy Radio podcast that we do me and Ben do a couple of others together Abelink and Saipat and the Roundtable of Gentlemen and I do a couple of others with Henry's sister Jackie at Sex and Other Human Activities and page seven and also don't forget the live show is this Saturday October 24th at 10 p.m. at the Creek in the Cave at 1093 Jackson Avenue it's a totally free show and we're also going to be live streaming it as we always do on our YouTube channel so that's 10 p.m. Eastern time I will be there for next month's show finally November finally this month we've got Ed Larsen coming in from the Roundtable of Gentlemen

and Brighter Sun and in early November we'll be doing a podcast festival in Washington DC which will be very exciting that's right that on November 8th we're going to be doing the DC Podfest if you go to DC Podfest or just a Google DC Podfest you can get tickets for that right now and it's uh come see us cool it's going to be super cool I can't wait um magustillation somebody on Twitter asked me what magustillations means and magustillations means whatever you want it to yeah you do it you do it you do it you do it we're done hail Satan uh hail me I'll gain help yes you'll do what you gotta do I always say hail yourself because you know people should feel good they do feel good I think they should I think so no

matter what happens don't don't forget we're walking corpses and it'll all be done so yeah just meet on a bunch of bones going through a life that is heavily manipulatable by your own thoughts that's right so love yourself good night everyone for more shows like the one you just listened to go to cavecomedyradio.com