Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 204: Leonard Lake and Charles Ng Part II - What I Bring To Friendship

Episode Date: December 11, 2015

The series on two of America's most despicable killers continues with Leonard Lake finding the perfect location to pull off the evil and twisted Operation Miranda and Charles Ng fully joining up with his murder partner in California.

There's no place to escape to this is the last time on the left That's when the cannibalism started Chinese chicken Chinese chicken. No, I thought you were singing They're naked ladies. Oh, that's what it is. Oh goodness never again to be uttered on this podcast Which is ironic about the name of the band bare naked ladies is that I'm pretty certain any single member of that band had never seen Once a bear naked lady. That's right, and they're actually fully clothed men Welcome to the last podcast on the left everyone

This all has always stared at the beautiful Marcus parks speaking of bear naked ladies We're hovering Leonard Lake and Charles today part two and you're Henry Zabrowski Say that you're Henry so people know My name is Alton Brown from the cooking channel. Yes. I love you on the food now You've been using your graders wrong. You gotta rub them sideways not up and down you fucking assholes Yeah, I have a food nerd. Yeah, I think he has a show called good eats He's one of the most obnoxious ones on the network. Good eats is a paralyzingly boring show That's right, and the food doesn't even look that good to eat and speaking of good eats

Yes, you got Leonard Lake and Charles Working out the worst possible segway All right Leonard Lake and Charles in last episode we got Leonard he just joined the hippie comm mute and people were kind of getting upset with him They didn't like him very much. No, no, no this this horrible balding Bearded man who liked to shoot off his guns talking military lingo not doing well in the hippie. You know what hit me The oh as I was walking here today is that I realized that Leonard Lake is the type of guy that a centerfold is his favorite song Oh, yeah guy I'll spend yeah, he's also the kind of guy. He'll brag about how he's like I can get a whole vagina in my mouth

Well, he'll like just put the bottom lip at the bottom of the vagina I'm like Weirdly tongue-stab the middle of it just strategically missing all the Sensor points of a vagina that might make a woman arouse exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so Leonard Lake He was and this is not surprising at all a big fan of soldier of fortune magazine Nothing like a good even-tempered magazine Soldier of fortune if you didn't know was long a refuge for not only survivalist like lake But also especially in the late 70s early 80s a refuge for mercenaries willing to fight in African civil wars and straight-out hit man

And also losers A complete total losers wrapped up in fantasies of grandeur in which it would never do any of that shit I like the idea of a militarized person in in Sudan or something like that Acting very similar to Billy Madison on Newdy magazine day the way it's soldier and for a soldier of fortune day So like looking for a friend to share his survivalist knowledge and lifestyle with placed an ad under the name Tom Myers and got responses from enough people that when former soldier Mark Novak got ahold of him Lake had long been known in the survivalist community and I'll put it this way Leonard Lake was really good at making up Fake names great at it good pseudonyms

Yeah, Tom Myers sounds like a guy who definitely wouldn't be raping a bunch of people in a bunker Oh, absolutely. It sounds like a guy who would just be sort of looking at a bunch of people in a bunker Yeah, hanging out with them being one of a member of a group of people inside of a bunker Yeah, he's a guy who has his own mayonnaise jars in the basement He calls it Myers mayonnaise He's going door-to-door and selling it throughout the neighborhood and really rolls off the tongue when you want to meet somebody and go Hi, my name is Tom Myers. Yes So Novak 21 years old visited Lake at the ranch for three days and had a reasonably good time

You know, they play you know some pinnacle and they hung out they watched some old episodes of mash and then he made some mashed potatoes That was it which was weird to have just carbs and no protein for food But you they were good. They were really salty, but they were good Nudy pictures and always always always showing the new we cannot stress this enough how Leonard Lake would show Nude pictures that he had taken to every person that he met Everybody but Novak came away. He did have a good time But he came away from the experience Describing Lake as a bit of a quote shit talker

Well, he was a shit talker at this point All he was was talk about his bunker and all the things he had prepared for the end times because at this point He was just living in a trailer. Yeah, right desperately looking for other survivalist friends Which is just like the weakest thing for a survivalist to do I thought survivalists were all about how like I stand on my own I thought that was it was about being alone and only needing like one pair of shoes Well, maybe if you had more if you saw more action in Vietnam like John Rambo did he would know how to truly be a Survivalist none all Leonard Lake spent his time to him as far as I could tell the extent of Leonard Lake

Survivalist skills was putting shit in a plastic drums and burying it out in the woods He learned how to twist knobs on a radio and the army on our diet. Oh my god so At the very least Novak had a good enough time with Leonard Lake to suggest the experience to his new friend Charles in just the fact that anybody could be friends with either one of these pieces of shit It's just like I can't believe how long we're Jeffrey Dahmer needed a friend. Yeah, Jeffrey Dahmer needed a friend These guys got these guys are just having friends come out of woodwork Like poker games. Well, I would say these guys are slightly more personable and

They have the ability for friendship slightly more than Dahmer I guess so but their main focus is building bunkers and group rape much less dangerous for the friend If you don't have a drill bit going through your skull and an attempt to make you a human sex zombie Well, that is an interesting thing about Charles in and Leonard Lake see Leonard Lake really only had one friend throughout his life Charles fat man gunner, but Charles in Charles actually Charles. It was more specific excuse me fat Charles fat Charles gunner But Charles in he made friends wherever he went he all he had friends in the army Places that he would work out later on he had friends there every time he got into trouble Leonard Lake or Charles

Inge always had somebody to call, but he was just a sour little man Every time you hear him talk, he's just like oh, you know They always do right about what I do right about what I don't and I never I was just hanging around I just hang around you know, I come around I bring all I guess I do I bring a big fancy pot Yes, I brought a walk. Oh, is it funny? Is it a funny every wrath everybody you're right, but the things I bring to the friendship. I mean we can learn a lot from the movie The hangover it's always kind of fun to have a feisty Asian fella hanging around. I guess so. Yeah, I suppose so So in at this moment is serving in the Marines in Hawaii and his time in the Marines was fairly

Uneventful until the eventual crash and burn He was generally described as a loner although he would entertain his fellow soldiers with his kung fu Skills which he would kick pencils out of their hands and he was actually known for his kung fu skills and was pretty good with Nunchucks, this is my question again Do we actually have witness testimony written down that says he was good at nunchucks Or is he just one of those pieces of shit that you'd meet at like day camp when you're like 12 years old Who's this like? Oh, yeah, I pretty much expert at nunchuck. You should come by my garage I have it's two paper towel two paper towel walls tied together with rubber band

I'm not looking across your face into your pride my friend. Yeah Yeah, I mean you just have to take him at his word the same way as the six foot seven man I just say I can dunk the basketball and there's like I'm sure you can I can't get off the ground Yeah, but one look at your ankles and they know that you're not much of a jumper That's right. I used to have blood clots when I was 21 and really messed with my ankles. So thank you Henry Well, Charles Eng was described by former commanders as an exemplary Marine as far as Marines went that like because he was also Obsessed with violence like he was the type of guy that would chant the Marine front Like the type of shit that they chant during the runt like the jogs during boot camp

He would say stuff like no kill no trip over and over and over again private Listen, I love your exuberance. All right, but I'm really gonna need you to hit some of the L's in this Okay, I know it's there is a barrier here, and I understand that we're in the Marines We're equal opportunities. We're really gonna try for you to hit these L's. All right. Okay, of course, of course Come in. Yes, huh. Yes, huh. No key. All right. Just repeat no kill. No thrill here. No kill No thrill here. Just give me gun. Let me just give me gun. Everybody always complain about how I say things and what I do And what I bring to French. So despite being a weird guy He's always and that's the other thing they said that he'd constantly be in the corner practicing his spin kicks

I'm a loser. No, I mean, this is what he has to do I mean this is how difficult is it for an Asian American to find a Identity in in this country, especially at this time. All he had was Bruce Lee and kung fu films What else was he supposed to do? Hey, we have some great Asian Personalities that made their way in this country. He looks like you okay, but Kobayashi, and we got Sunyi Alan It's a big time big players out there George Takei Takei at this point

He's doing nothing. He was Sulu at this point people were making fun of him And the guy that was the butler in the green horn at Kato. That's Jackie. That's Bruce Lee Bruce Lee But I think that Charles Ng it's not doing anything for Asian culture doing high kicks being like oh idea bird Can't even close to me because I'm ready because cross I destroy it with all I got a big swipe kick big swipe quick Look at me. Look at me when I do it. Why is everybody's cool? He's complaining about what I do. Oh, I practice my speed kick. Well, they could have used a buddy I think well his buddy was in fact Mark

Novak the guy that had visited Leonard Lake the two had met while they were shopping in the army surplus store They noticed that they were wearing identical scuba diving watches It's a Casio scuba diving rod watch. Yeah, I love it. It's one of the best Do you have the same look at it? Would you I bossed you man? It's so like I am white and you are different white different type of white But I gotta say we friends now and you ever once complain about how we what I do and what I bring to friendship I tell you what I will put you down in a book. I tie you to recline a bed

I cut off your clothes with scissor and I'll watch you as my buddy praise with your balls Think I'm gonna recommend this guy go meet that psycho Leonard Lake to get away from me. Yeah, well, they Tom Meyers Tom Meyers well They did after they met at the army surplus store They decided to go have a soda together because they're both sober which also shows me this is the problem I I if you do have a drinking pop-up or drug pop-up I'm glad that you're you get out of it and you're sober and then you're being strong But a lot of times it means that you're an insufferable

I have no problem with recovering Alcoholics, but for the person who's never touched any drugs including pharmaceutical drugs at any point in their life You haven't lived So while they're having their soda they started talking about you know Survivalism which Charles Ang was already pretty into and Novak mentioned Hey, I just stayed a few days this guy out in California. His name is Tom Meyers You ought to look him up sometime so Charles Ang this meeting would actually be pretty fortuitous for him because soon after this He would go AWOL from the Marines after getting caught stealing

$11,000 in machine guns grenade launchers rifles and pistols from the base armory, which is insane He was obsessed with weaponry He loved guns, but the same time what we were gonna discover about Charles Ang is that he had a true like problem with Cleptomania like he loved to steal he liked to get things over on people He wanted to be smarter than everybody else Which is why him and Leonard Lake got along completely because the idea is there were the blast to brave men in America by the end to Really get what they want like real men's rights activists, you know, I'm like they're really really really strong men Yeah, really men as we get more and more into this. It's like ink and like we're like the proto men's activists

Yes, like they're really obnoxious ones the ones that are just fucking terrible terrible pieces of shit the ones who refer to women as Yes, yes, and he said all this up where he was talking a bunch of shit about how he was gonna rob the armory and everyone's been like All right, Charles, whatever man. I don't think you should but okay So Charles Ang made friends with this one loser guy that was the guy the night watchman at the armory And it like he realized like basically they had kind of struck up this sort of relationship with each other And he had only struck up that relationship in order to get access to the armory So Charles in is like literally trying to be friends But the way Charles in his friends is truly like he goes. He's like, well, what your name your name. Oh, your name is Brian

We friends are right. Yeah, it's a fun. Yeah, we friends. I show you lunch. I come back come back by my oh look You see my car here. I got no shock. I got all your picture Bruce Reed because you know why he's so tall That's what I like about him. He's so tall. All right. Now what you're gonna do what he did was it said to him It's like at night you're gonna pretend to go to sleep Outside of the armory and I am going to go and steal everything from inside of it and leave and then you have the perfect alibi Which is you were sleeping one of the worst alibis you can give yes And then the dude eventually just gave them up because all these the grenade launchers were missing. Yeah from the armory And then finally there was just like Charles took it because they had already

They sort of assumed Charles was fucking around doing something because he was just being really shifty Yeah, really sneaky like a ninja and I think they followed the pitter-patter of steps back to his bunk And they found him with all the guns cuddling but true ninja is not found because true ninjas won with shadow That is a good point So in after he was caught he managed to escape the custody of the chasers Which is slang for military police he climbed out of a window and camped out in the hawaiian jungle for a few days Where he said he quote developed diarrhea for being Continuary wet and that's not my first because I go out there and you're like yeah

No, I go out in Hawaii. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's a beach beach area, right? And he's pretty worn it everywhere, but I assume I go lay down next to volcano. It's gotta be dry, right? It's okay. I mean, you know, well, you know, it's wet, right? And the absinthe didn't ran and I've got a witchbathom and I've got to read out of my pants and I can't have my guns anymore How did everybody was complaining? Yeah, there was no toilet paper or anything. How did you clean up or you just I found a Quarra You used a koala bear. Yes, you wipe your butt. You see a choir bears made out of tarot paper But you ever see that?

I've ever seen the ad with the two bears and he gets a poop here on the outside of the shower man Yeah, yeah, that's what he don't show you It's at the skin of Korea and they take the shepherds half fair to Korea and they were pretty baby I'm swimming with it. So toilet paper is made out of koala So after a few days of diarrhea in the jungle Aang Eventually ventured out called up not mark Novak told him to put put him into contact with Leonard Lake But unfortunately for Aang Leonard was no longer residing at the hippie ranch that we talked about in our last episode

For after months of a surrounding hippies complaining about lakes bad habits The conflicts eventually came to a head when Leonard shed stockpiled with ammunition Caught fire and exploded in a hail of metal debris and bullet fragments Seems to be the number one reason why you don't have a stockpile of Bullets and fucking ammunition. Oh, I love the idea have a stockpile I'm a huge fan 4th of July came early that year. Oh, I mean these are fireworks, but in their truest form Can you imagine that just like a hippie? It's like you got the black magic like the Colts guys like next to Leonard Lake And they're just hanging out like trying to drink a goblet of grape juice and going like it's like

I think we're going to have a plentiful false stosis and I like the way that Lawrence like shook up that community. Oh, he should have shook up a little bit Yeah, shook them enough shook them up enough where they kicked his ass out like and like Sinbad in the movie house Yes, right those those white suburbanites needed a little bit of culture in their life So after being kicked out of the ranch Leonard and Cricket landed in Filo, California Attracted by a magazine article that described Filo as the perfect place to sit out a worldwide nuclear holocaust Gotta get there gotta get to Filo So Leonard got a job managing a hotel while Cricket continued her career as a teacher's aide

Shortly after relocating the two got hitched on September 13th 1981 with fat Charles serving as best man Just as Leonard had done for him years before now that's true friendship Yeah, it is so Charles Ng would arrive soon after the marriage and the three of them made fast friends and moved out to Indian Creek Ranch in the owner of the hotel that Leonard Lake was Managing was reportedly happy to be rid of the guy who seemed to only be able to talk about the nuclear holocaust and his quote-unquote Oh, God what a pain in the asshole. He must have been right and those are the worst kinds of pain What how did Charles Ng find him exactly?

So he went to the he went to the commune and he was just like where is he and they told him where he had gone to Well, I think they had gotten ahold of him before they went to the ranch. I'm not exactly Letters well the yeah the problem with the top with Leonard Lake and Charles Ng is that the timeline is Extremely difficult to truly lay out. What's because it was this kind of drifter mentality Leonard Lake had no real address He was going between various hippie communes He was operating under a pseudonym of pseudonym like getting letters sent to him from various survivalists who were also writing under pseudonyms He's the whole point is to be completely isolated and secret He accepts Charles Ng it's technically as a job because he was supposed to be there sort of be like his assistant

Where he was like paying him to do kind of odd jobs around the house Which mostly just included holding young girls ankles while he's serviced at them and he just kind of got involved in it But you know how it was it was like Charles Ng showed up with like, you know a pack on a stick Right just saw Leonard Lake like Whitlyn a pair of handcuffs out in front of his trailer just going like Glad you found me stranger and then all of a sudden they were just Rollicking good buddies. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a lot like Henry Lee Lucas an oddest tool The actual timeline is very muddy And there's not a whole lot of witnesses to really corroborate exactly what was going on in their lives at the time

But as to why Leonard Lake and Charles Ng got along so well so fast Ng later said and this is an exact quote with the exact syntax that Ng used I look at him as a person that have like seen it to me I view him as a patriot because he had fought for the country and I view him as a person Who was very knowledgeable about different things like homesteading and history and geography And also did things a common common interest that we have in the Marine Corps. We usually talk about and then he never complained He never once complained about what I bring to friendship. It does seem like true friendship I mean this guy loved what Lake was selling and Lake didn't mind when he was when Ng kept on kicking pencils out of his

hands, but also we're gonna find out that Leonard Lake also Sort of like H.H. Holmes, which is very interesting I just made that connection used Pytzel as sort of like his goon He's gonna use Charles Ng as his goon and eventually is gonna constantly sell him down the river Yeah Every single time the two of them are caught in like a crossfire or where like they're both caught in a crime together The two of them immediately turn on each other. Yeah, and Leonard Lake I mean what we're gonna find when they're finally discovered down down the line is that Leonard Lake just shot fucking Charles Ng

Just like just fucking ducked out on him and left him to be arrested much like how the Green Hornet treated Kato The Green Hornet treated Kato wonderfully. No, no No Kato had a lot of favorite partners. They were full partners own Kato. That's a good question He was his butler Kato was his butler. He was paid a living wage. So my analogy holds up perfect So the trios stay at Indian Creek Ranch would also be short-lived as Leonard once again started stockpiling weapons Just have one weapon one. Well, he liked weapons Of course, he's a survivalist survivalists and a stockpile of weapons go hand in hand

This of course caught the attention of the locals who managed to either hear about or figure out that the odd little Chinese man Who was puttering about the property was an escaped fugitive the cops raided the place found Ng and the illegal Modifications Lake had made to his guns and arrested them both Ng was sent back to Hawaii to face a court martial which is the nicest place to have a court martial The best place to have a court martial while Leonard would skip bail after his arrest and his life as a fugitive would officially begin He would say that in his diary that he realized that like when he was waiting to be transferred between the holding cell and where he was Supposed to go to be tried. He was just like this is my time. Yeah, I'm going to make operation Miranda happen now Like he had been waiting all this time because you'd realize that there the one thing about a consummate shit talker is that a deep deep deep

Inside they know they're a shit talker. I know in the end They can't really be full badass unless they do something about it And that's what he decided to do was make the choice and be the Leonard Lake that we would now know him as Yeah, it's against the wall. No other choice. Absolutely. But however, unfortunately Cricket would not want to live the fugitive life with Charles Ng So even though the two would date on and off for the next few years Leonard was once again a solitary man and in need of a new identity Literally because that's what he realized as a man on the run a part of part of that is you need

Identities to risk to cycle through like you need to set up like leases and you need to get like cars Yeah, you do a bunch of legal shit in order to do that. You need a license. Yeah, you know license You need some so you know license the social security card and you need to be able to cycle through him fairly quickly So what you how you do that is by? Shoot him in the head and grinding up their bones afterwards. Yep, and he did that to his younger brother Donald now remember that the last episode we talked about how all he talked about was to talk shit about killing his brother Yeah, but he never did it until he actually did it until he actually killed his own brother He didn't really look alike, but he knew that he could pass with him if you just kind of take the license plate

Kind of you know the license is kind of whapping in front of a police's face and then run away. Sure. Yeah Yeah, so he brought him up shot him in the head and While Lake and Cricket were divorced She still allowed him to live at her family's cabin up in Willseville, California Not far from San Francisco and this cabin would be where Leonard Lake Finally would have the perfect place to carry out operation Miranda So this was the first kill under Lake's belt, right? As far as we know There are rumors to say like one person did say that they caught or they helped Leonard Lake take a

Frigerator out to the dump and the door was welded shut before this So there are a little rumors here and there, but who knows if that's just someone looking for attention We've all lived in a college house before and opposed and opposed to a cleaning the refrigerator You just weld it shut and put on the curb They can get pretty disgusting so this might have been the first person he fantasized about killing sort of similar to Edward Gein, but you're gonna and then he did kill his brother So it's a hell of a way to I guess it's you go back to what you want to do in the first place And then it's a good jumping point

But now we're gonna see the pattern that Leonard Lake and Charles Inger gonna settle into which is killing for For convenience and purpose. He killed his brother to get his ID You're gonna see this again and again where he's going to kill men in order to steal their identities and use their identities and their property And then he then kills for passion Which is a part of his sexual release and so he is doing it all now now He's he's very similar to an HH Holmes. Yeah, because he's an opportunity killer and a sexual killer. Yeah, absolutely So this house was actually the perfect location for this It was the end of 200 yards of unpaved road relatively secluded spot

Surrounded by huge thick Californian trees and low hills. There were other houses nearby But they were positioned in such a way that gave Leonard all the privacy that he needed What kind of hole did he have over Cricket that she would let him use her house? Well, I don't think that any other man wanted to be with you multiple used Cricket. Cricket was kind of hot in a gangly kind of Weird face Cricket was hot in like a Carla Faye Tucker kind of way in a way that you find extremely hot With the way that I found attractive. Yes Well, we don't know if she wasn't slobbing knobs all over town I would assume she wasn't exactly you know held too close to the celibacy

Well, there is a lot of speculation as far as what Cricket's involvement in all of these crimes actually well This is where I'm going to say that's what this points to later on She completely absolved herself from any sort of involvement with the crime She beat she got immunity for her testimony, but she was definitely an orchestrator She helped bring women into the scenario earlier on where they brought it more because before they were just doing sort of torture play Where they would abuse her and then not kill her but as they started killing the women mostly It's because I think that she kind of validated in her head that Linder Lake was killing these women in order to get rid of the Bodies and so you don't have any witnesses for them to talk about what they were doing

Alone in the room. Yeah, that is one area where the men's rights movement is not entirely off base The incarceration rates between men and women are drastically more for men than they are for women. Yes, okay. Yes, they are Wow very good I'm done. Let's we don't side with them. No, absolutely not. That's just that's just a fact Yes, it is a fact But the reason why Cricket didn't go away is because all of the evidence they had against Cricket was extremely Circumstantial there was no way that they were gonna actually charge her for crimes It was the reason why they gave her immunity was because that they thought that she would have some information to put away Charles Aing for good so it was actually on the part of the prosecution a good move and the big

Tell about Cricket's involvement is that she had spank calluses Just like two calluses on her buttocks in the shape of a human hand I'll tell them powder around the house, huh? So Leonard Lake's new location at first he did reasonably well with the new neighbors Although the first interactions were not without their speed bumps See Lake had bought a dog that he named Wubon now. What is Wubon? Googled it and nothing came up. All right, not a single goddamn thing came up for Wubon

I think he just looked at it and said Wubon Wubon was a German Shepherd and one of the neighbors dogs decided to get a little frisky with Wubon and Lake taking Exception shot the neighbors dog. That's not a good move. Not how you get ingratiated into your secretly Secured to place where you're trying to create your sex such absolutely not you let the dogs hump it out Well, the neighbors at first understandably upset were eventually charmed by Lake They invited him to a barbecue the following Saturday and after further Conversation Lake and the couple exchanged pornographic videos and Lake Officially is comfortable at his new place was happening back then

Is it's the 70s Marcus is 1983 this is the 80s. Oh my god Well, this is the thing is that Leonard Lake that's the only reason why they were even charmed by Leonard Lake is because he was the type Of man that was making homemade porno videos that he would share with his neighbors at a barbecue Ronald Reagan's line in a hospital bed almost dying from gunshot wounds and these people were in the woods exchanging porno and forgiving someone for killing their dog technically life is better that way I guess so So it was now time for Lake to begin his search for his M-lady as he called her he rented out an apartment in the infamous pink palace of hate asbury in San Francisco long known to be a refuge for transients

so here at the pink palaces he used the name Alan Dre and Started to make friends with some of his fellow residents three of his victims would come from the pink palace Vietnam vet Randy Jacobson known for being a little too trusting Which is normally the opposite for a Vietnam that yeah Yeah, and well, he's just looking for somebody to be nice to him the other one was Maurice Rock a groovy pothead guitar player and Cheryl a Coro Maurice's girlfriend Now Lake Lord Maurice and a Coro up to the mountains telling them that they could have all the weed

They wanted if they would just come up and help them harvest his crop He lured them with weed, huh? He lured them with weed and while Maurice's complete body would be found Dressed in the same three-piece corduroy suit. He left San Francisco in All that would be found of a Coro would be a section of leg bone and a neck vertebrae, but they ID her with using DNA. She didn't live, huh? No, no She's a transformer Pieces and then would go back together like yep, yep, yep, yep, right now It's not gonna work, but before her death

Evidence suggests that a Coro would be what we could call the proto M. Lady his practice M. Lady for at this point the bunker wasn't that the construction on the bunker was not yet completed but Concerning a Coro police would find a picture of her standing outside of Leonard's house wearing handcuffs So this has got to be the worst final thought in your head when you get up to the top of the mountain You're like there's no weed and then you're immediately hitting the back of the head with a crowbar. Yes Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's really sad very so innocent at least give them the weed at least when you're drugged And then murdered you got the drug and then it's poor Mori rock has just sitting there. It's going like I thought

We were just Yeah, and Leonard's likes this like There's no weed here only condom rappers No, man. No, condoms, man. You're lame Where's the condoms then he takes out his penis. He's got 30 on there Kind of fun, but these are very these are like archetypes from every horror movie. They really are your stoner Yeah, girl stoner kind of quiet Vietnam quiet veteran that just kind of wants to be left alone They all end up dying though

But a Coro the closest she would come to being an M lady and this is another thing that suggests very heavy cricket involvement Cricket would play a Coro in a pornographic video that she and Lake sent to a collector of Erotica and she and these were the ones he filmed a lot of just like close-up pussy ones They were what those videos like you know that the porn videos where it's just like the genitals I don't like it. Yeah, I don't a prawn from District 9 She'll kind of go like pat pat pat pat. She was masturbating. Yeah, but it was yeah the up-close general Anybody out there who makes pornography just get out of there. I want to see the full picture

I want to see the whole thing, but China's are beautiful. I like to see them. Yes, but I say yeah Let's get some face in there. I want to see her face. There's been an uptick in the male butthole shots I want to say that as well. Yeah, get those out. You know one behind that big back of the ball Yeah, it was the 80s was the heyday for those there, but they're coming back for some I hate it when they do that they shoot underneath the man's balls into it into the sex before you think we're getting into sex talk That is an actual and exactly what the conversation was between Lake and his neighbors Well, they watched the sex tape these problems have been going on since the age And by the way Randy Jacobson the reason why he was killed

Disability checks, which is quite ironic for the fact that Leonard Lake grew up saying every all these people that were living off Welfare were vampires. Yeah, exactly And this is also a trick that Leonard would use over and over again He would deliberately pick people who got government checks to kill And then he would use various identity he wouldn't actually like he would kill one person and then sign a check from that person to one of his Alter egos to one of his stolen identities and then cash the check that way. It was just this huge shell game Do you think that he put the check in his left hand and then like slowly gave it to his right hand and then shook his

Mr. Myers you're welcome, Mr. Rock And of course at the same time that he was picking these people off in San Francisco He also started his journal, which unsurprisingly. It's mostly whining about how women are quote-unquote whores Longing about crickets saying things like why do I love her? So wish I could turn it off And of course his musings on his M. Ladies. This is something from his journal about the collector. Ah The collector has it really been near 20 years. I've carried this fantasy Miranda my lovely little prisoner of the future. I suppose in my way I am the same wimp as the hero and in my way. I just as crazy

I have no doubt we wimps have been compensating for our inability since the dawn of history Sad really still how can we die if we never live? Nerd alert Unbelievable these guys are pathetic. They're absolutely pathetic. Yeah, I mean it reads like a fucking reddit post Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and this is also in letter. He also wrote a lot about his survivalist beliefs This is again from his journal amusing our quote land of the free Unquote is not prepared to deal effectively with a truly free man What can they do to one who carries cyanide pills in his pockets? Oh?

Oh Tiny penis he doesn't think it's the land of the free because the land of the free doesn't want him to have a murder basement where he films Everybody dying at his hands hate it when he kills people for that. I quote-a-quote identities Welfare checks well I've heard a lot of reasonings behind this is why America isn't the most free country But this isn't one of them. No, no, no, this is not valid So around March of 1983 Leonard decides that it's time to shed his brother's identity and in his mind The most logical replacement was an identity that he already knew how to manipulate a identity with a lot of room

To give inside of it, you know, please please. Tell me it's Charles. Hey Zellig the great Woody Allen film wonderful film now at this point it is time to finally implement Operation fish the plan was to kill his best friend Charles Gunner Please fat Charles Charles and use his name and identification to stay ahead of the law He called it operation fish as both the means of subterfuge and just a little joke to himself Which is a very interesting because this is the I love the fucking this nerd piece of shit Gunner well aware of how large a man He was would often refer to himself as a beached whale and Lake thought that if anyone stumbled upon his plans

There's no way they would make the connection between Gunner and operation fish as in the words of Don Lassenter and die for me Whales aren't even fish. They're mammals. God. I want to murder this man but it's also Leonard Lake was also kind of fat. He was a bit of a chubber So good makeup Charles Gunner for being fat. You're fat too. Yeah, but I was super fat under fat always makes fun of the Larger fat so that you get the nickname of fat Charles. Yeah, you have to be very fat. Yeah, Gunner was five eight four hundred pounds Oh, yeah, people tend to associate with people with individuals in a relatively like weight-wise and in physical Attraction wise and then there's always the hot one, but you know she can top out at five

Yeah, he was hanging out with fours and threes and men as well He was a real dwarf. What's that movie called Dwarf on gold or a dwarf playing golf? No, no duff What was the movie with the girl that's supposed to be ugly? But she's not ugly and they say it's they say she's ugly just because she's got brown hair or something. She's all that No, the other one was called like duh dive every every romantic comedy. Yeah, that's every high school comedy Yeah, but you're that she's all that is the same exact plot. Are you talking about clueless with the audacity to make that beautiful I think it's called light clarf. I do love the movie clarf Talking shoe a big fan of clarf

Here's a bit of information about Charles Gunner, by the way Described by his neighbors as quote an overweight good-natured if somewhat oafish near do well Gunner often beat his children and this was a fact that Leonard would use to justify his murder So there would be a lot of false starts to operation fish. This is from Leonard's journal dated April 5th 1983 operation fish failed Charles is simply too heavy to move sigh He writes sigh at the end of a lot of journal entries like actually writes out. Yeah, like he's a 12 year old girl Yeah, Lake failed again when Charles

Refused to eat poison snacks that Lake had made for him and failed yet again When Lake tried to kill him with poison gas, but didn't use enough to knock him out. He's a big guy I love the poison snacks. I just want to see like cooking them up. This has got to work Absolutely, it's just it's like a bunch of like anchovies and cheese on crackers And he's just like hey you want some of our new a fat Charles Haha a fat Charles when I try some of my these snacks. I made it's for lunch. I wouldn't you believe it I've started my diet today. You know, I always say I'll start my diet tomorrow. I've started it today I this is my day you never Leonard

Thank you so much for supporting me because you know that I've been trying to lose weight It's been a really big problem in my life and I have a bad heart Literally any other day I would have eaten those sigh I Later like would finally succeed on April 24th 1983 and told Gunner's wife that her husband had left her for another woman And wouldn't be returning unsurprisingly Gunner's wife wouldn't look into his disappearance for another two years This seems to be from HH homes to the 1980s here. Can you just do that? Yeah? Yeah, you know Albert fish did it as well. He's just like the kids gone. They ran away. I was watching this

This true crime show last night called the FBI files from the early 90s, which is retarded. It's on the new Netflix it's on Netflix recently added on Netflix and That's what they say one of the police officers was talking about a bunch of missing women It's like if you are an adult you are legally allowed to disappear. Yeah, you can just disappear Yeah, and what Leonard Lake would do is when he killed somebody he would write letters to Their relic he would find out who he needed to contact to pretty much keep these people from being reported missing He wasn't able to do it every time but a lot of times he was able to pick up these people who were Kind of drifters

He did it with the Vietnam vet that he would just write a letter and send it off to one of their friends me like Hey, you know, I came up to you know Sacramento and I found a job. So I'm gonna stay here. See you later very similar to H. H. Holmes again. Yeah, yeah and so This is another weird thing that kind of points towards cricket is that when gunner's body was found and this is by the way When Charles Ing was still in prison police discovered that he was killed by not one gun but two Which strongly suggests that since Ing was in prison the only other partner that Leonard Lake had was cricket strongly suggests that they

Killed fat Charles together. Is it possible that Lake freaked out and he just grabbed two guns with both of his hands? Oh like he's in a crazy like he's in a John Woo movie. Yeah, he's Yosemite Sam Yeah, just pop pop pop pop white doves Come out from behind him. Yeah, but like really fat pigeons And this entire time Lake had been constructing with the help of a local boy named Randy Nothing like a good old boy named Randy He was constructing the bunker that would become his version of the collector's underground cell now meanwhile in Kansas Charles Ing was cool in his heels in Fort Leavensworth

Serving 18 months for the theft charge. Ing and Lake this entire time have been keeping up a closed correspondence Like Ing would or Lake would send Ing like naked pictures of cricket He'd send him naked pictures of other women that he'd convinced to take pictures for him And he'd also send him detailed plans of the torture bunker that he was built Which is very interesting. He sent that right into a prison Right, and then Ing would send him naked pictures of himself with his penis tied behind his I make vagina for you. It's his man. Me. It's extending friendship to friend You don't have to send back a picture every time I send you a picture don't even bother sending back another picture

Mike my other thing too is that you feel that if letter like didn't ever like if you skipped a letter with no pictures of Cricket like nude or any other various like blacked-out eyed woman nude that he like A letter like Charles Ing would write a letter back just being like you're feeling okay, buddy You know send new everything. Okay, you seem Polaroid's broke so Polaroid machine broke there and in quite the chatterbox about all of this Everything that he would that Leonard would tell him Ing would tell to his fellow cellmates not wasn't the only thing that he would talk about He would talk all the time about his plans to train and assemble a paramilitary unit to help him rob banks

To help him steal missiles from military bases so he could shoot down passenger jets he'd talk about how we wanted to bomb bus stations and He would of course talk a lot about torturing women which his fellow inmates said he had quote quite the imagination for I still like the continuing of the no pain no gain no care no thrill Where's the beef? Where is the beef? Got milk. Yeah. Yeah, you got me okay. I got me okay. Yeah, I put my ridder my ridder editor I got here. Yeah, I make milk all day wrong little known fact and came up with the majority of slogans

We use today for beef and milk products time to make the doughnuts. Yes, that's great time to make some doughnuts Time for me to make your doughnut and I got a sort of icing down here in my icing patch You know he always starts off really if we just take the first sentence I think we can use that for the slogan have it your way And by having it your way. I mean I do you from behind Have it your way very good Charles. Thank you So after 18 months Amazingly, Ing was not sent back to Hong Kong because Charles Ing was not an American citizen

He was a Hong Kong citizen who had faked a birth certificate to get Inch to gain entry into the Marines So that's one of the reasons why people say that's probably why he didn't get deported because through some sort of clerical error His birth was still listed as like I think Indiana on his records So they just let him back out in the general population and Ing Rejoined with Leonard Lake in July of 1984 again lack of detail oriented police officers Have kept these people on the streets. Well, this isn't the police. This is corrections officers Was the same thing with the FBI files military if you ever watched the series the FBI files on Netflix

Basically with that entire show was about how the FBI like fucks up fucks up fucks up until they somehow randomly catch the criminal Right for a speeding ticket or something like that. These were actual files paperwork that you know I mean, it's up to these people's eyebrows and there's it's so easy to make a mistake in these situations Yeah, I mean and they're not really looking this is just some little guy that got caught stolen stealing some weapons And the military let him in so you would think they you know that vetting process He would have been caught there. Yeah, you'd think so but unfortunately not so the day after Charles Ing reappeared in Leonard Lake's life Leonard's journal Which he kept up every single day for over a year the entries

Suddenly stopped the last entry he would write for two months would be a short little story About how he had tried to teach Charles Ing how to drive that day Charles Ing Okay, was not a great driver. What do you mean? He was a very bad driver in San Francisco. He got into two car accidents in the first week He tried driving he got into another car accident with when he turned right in the front of a big truck a couple months later From one of the trucks that they had stolen But I heard he was very good at dragging a basket with two sticks in the side of it and had wheels on it with people sitting

Right, and that's why you can't believe stereotypes. Just look at Charles Ing. He loved playing with non-chucks He pretended to be a ninja. He kicked pencils out of people's hands with terrible Terrible you cannot believe stereotypes super thick glasses thick glasses loved Bruce Lee I mean this guy is just breaking barriers. Yes So the first victim following Ing's release was Albert Gia Leti a 36 year old openly gay DJ at a small San Francisco radio station Gia Leti had placed an ad in the spectator, which is San Francisco's local underground paper Offering quote oral sex for straight men

Ing answered the ad walked in and killed Gia Leti in his own apartment like a real piece of shit Yeah, a real piece of shit and really what what I think they don't you know what I think this is is that this is Ing's first known murder. I think this is Leonard Lake saying like you gotta get out there You gotta get into you gotta get out there You got if you want to be if you want to take part in this if you truly want to be a part of what we're doing You got to go out and kill somebody you got to get something out of the way So and these people of course did not hold homosexuals in high opinion So they figure easiest thing to do is figure find a guy in you know that in the one ads in the

Spectator go and kill him and no one's gonna give a fuck and you know what they were completely and totally right if I was Leonard Lake I would not be thrilled that the guy I told him I said go kill somebody and then he killed a famous DJ He wasn't a famous. He wasn't a guy was on air on a daily basis. I would assume public persona trust me I've been a DJ on the radio before they're not gonna miss him It's a bit of DJ on a small radio station before it's if you're gone people don't really know I said they're in other form of the less dead Yeah, black prostitutes and DJs. Oh, man. Yeah FM DJs dime a dozen man. It's totally fine So with his first murder out of the way Aang was ready to join Lake and their first mass murder

See many of Lake's letters Mentioned the desire to step up from photography to full-on video for the M. Lady sessions and that equipment would be stolen from Harvey Dubbs owner of video dubs a small cell-from-business that specialized in filming weddings christening's bar mitzvahs and other such events Less than a month after Aang was released from prison He and Lake showed up at the dubs household under the guise of renting set equipment But unfortunately for the dubs family Lake and Aang would in fact be there to murder every single one of them And this is legitimately a reason why I just use I had a piece of furniture that I was going to try and sell on Craigslist

And this is I cited this example of being like this is why I don't let random people come into my house This is the truth. It's just a straight up if you're doing Craigslist. I will tell you this Find a safe meeting ground or like leave it outside Don't let them know what apartment you're at you're at because this is what happens Is that your entire family they go in there while the dubs family is eating dinner? They check out the and they check out all the equipment and then Leonard Lake and Charles Aang take the entire family at gunpoint to a rape Bunker. Yeah. Yeah, they they heard him into the van telling them like listen. We don't we only want your money and Aang by the way

he said later that Leonard Lake Committed all of the murders. Of course. Aang was completely they both threw each other under the bus Yeah, much as possible, of course and he said that Lake broken of the dubs apartment heard him out into the van after dark And told him that he only wanted the money strangled him and then buried him in holes. He had already dug. It was this was not a Crime of passion. It wasn't something that they It just so happened that things out of got out of control and they killed him This was premeditated their plan was to go in get the go in kill the family and steal the equipment

But they raped the wife. They took the husband. They murdered the husband immediately They took the woman into the M. Lady holding room and then they don't know what they did to the baby Well, they yeah, they don't know what they did to the baby, but they certainly didn't raise it to be president They didn't know huh? Yeah, because it was it was a husband a wife and their 16 month old child And in claim that he didn't know what happened to the baby But another cellmate later testified that ink told him that Leonard forced him to kill the baby as a training exercise Like the urban legend about the not Nazi SS officers having to raise a puppy and then having to kill it upon graduation That's why we got to arm puppies and babies

I think every baby and puppy should have a collar on it with a grenade on the front of it I agree and that that baby or dog can be trained to pull the pin on the grenade in case they're ever stolen That'll be in look who's talking eight the militarized baby suicide watch That same cellmate also said the aim went into extreme detail about exactly what it transpired that night after they had abducted the family and Taken them back to the torture bunker. This is by the way the exact court Transcript and now go just remember that his cellmate was named Maurice LaBeurge. Yes, Maurice LaBeurge

Did you tell Maurice LaBeurge that you tried the asshole death grip on Debra Dubs? No Did you tell Maurice LaBeurge that the asshole death grip is to strangle a girl with her pantyhose and twist it as you were fucking her in the ass? No This is real Henry please Henry please. Yes, it is real, but this also this speaks to just the horrible douchebaggery of Charles Ng that he had these horrible names for these things. He's just a piece of shit He's just I keep saying piece of shit, but that's just what they are. He's a nasty little Garbage man who's just like all you see likes everything sneaky and stealing. It's just horrible

I feel bad that he's Asian. I don't really want to be used in the Asian voice You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, you don't want to be used in the Asian voice I'm just one time that we've also you're not you're saying that you're not enjoying that we actually have a killer from Hong Kong It does provide certain liberties So this pretty much ends the second episode of Leonard Lake and Charles Ng in the third episode. We're going to get a little bit more serious We're gonna get heavier. Yeah, it's gonna be much heavier We're gonna learn about Leonard Lake and Charles Ng is that the you know, they are probably two of the worst

Criminals will cover in all of last podcast in love. There is there as bad as they as they get. Yeah, they killed entire families They killed babies Rape women and murdered adult men. They did all of it. They tortured and killed and beat and Stole and there was a horrible people Um and did it with Glee Yes, and not the television show Glee. They didn't sing the whole time. Huh? No, it was not a acapella thing No, huh? No, there are a bunch of scumbags and schmucks and that's why we mock them and again Yes, like Henry said if you have something to sell Craigslist, just do it in the Starbucks. Yeah, right. Thanks so much for listening everyone

Let's see here. What do we do now? We do let's do a Twitter thing Yeah, so you can find Marcus Parks on Twitter at Marcus Parks and I'm at Ben Kissel Henry Zabrowski is that Henry loves you and I don't use Instagram that much But I figured you use Instagram quite a bit so people should find you on there. Yes, find me on Instagram. Yeah, it's an at Dr. Fantasty dr. F a n t a s t y and go and follow me on the spotify I've got a bunch of playlists over there that you can check out You know working on some cool projects over there. So yeah, go follow me go follow me on there and we can trade some music

Seriously, please follow him. It really gives his life purpose. It does and it really does so it but if no one follows then Oh, no, I've got I've got a few All right I got a couple people following me out there and I very much appreciate each and every one of you I love it. I will tell you a little bit go a really quick Christmas story So I get one thing they'll say about Christmas is one thing I like about it Is that every Christmas tree sales booth the salesman at the Christmas tree booths are always fucking hammered no matter where you are They're always drunk. Yes, the two of them next to Jackie's house Jackie has got a Jackie is your sister my sister

They have a Christmas tree selling thing right next to her place. They got so drunk. They accidentally set fire To a whole section of the trees You caught I was coming on the block literally Live fire happening with a fireman put it out with a fire hose literally just saying Christmas is over Oh That's a hell of a day for the fireman god years with those fucking drunk assholes So that's one of them sleeps in the porta-potty sometimes. Yeah, it's fucking disgusting. I love those guys. They're doing great They're doing God's work selling Christmas tree to a bunch of Satan is the real version of elves. Yeah, they are they are

Vagrants elves have trailers and if you guys want your last podcast on a lift t-shirt go to cave comedy radio comm slash merch If you order by December 20th, then you have a very good chance of getting your getting your T-shirt by to set by Christmas the last shipment we're sending out is going to be on December 21st So be sure to get them before then especially if you're getting a medium because we're running a little low on medium So be sure to get in there and get those things or what's and that's good to hear people are getting smaller Isn't that nice? It doesn't make any sense last time we ran out of largest first

So I ordered more of them now we're running out of mediums first It doesn't make any sense well and t-shirts is hard if I know anything about the larger person We like to get to things first including buffets and t-shirts. So that's what we do well hail Satan everyone hail yourselves And hi again, and also thank you to Megan Fierro root and Sammy Coglin for their research Help and also thank you to Jose for taking care of all of our t-shirts And if you see a priest this Christmas season pull his pants down that's make him feel like a little boy That's right. Don't they wear frocks? I don't know fucking beat them up For more shows like the one you just listened to go to cave comedy radio comm