Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 216: Roswell Part I - It's a UFO

Episode Date: March 18, 2016

It's the grandaddy of them all on this week's Last Podcast with the story of the Roswell Incident, in which, allegedly, a manned spacecraft of unknown origin crashed in the New Mexico desert in 1947, changing the world forever.

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? Guns are illegal to have in New York. You'll get three and a half years in prison if you do it, so... Three square a day? No, that's actually kind of not true. We get three square, man. Three hot milks.

Yeah, that's all I need. All the Salisbury steak I can crave. Well, prison's so good to be mod, they give me three hot milks a day. I got my own dumbbell I can lift. And also, sometimes I can run away from the people trying to rape me. So my quads are really cut. Three hot milks. Oh, my goodness. Alright, welcome to the show, everyone. This is the last podcast.

On the left, I am Ben Kissel, as always, with Marcus Parks. Hello. It's a Santa Patrick's Day. Oh, my god. It's a lovely day. Wouldn't you believe it? I drank so much last night. I can't find my family. Oh, isn't that sad? You drunk... I'm the luckiest Irishman there's ever been. Perfect. Alright, well, that's great. I'm so happy.

Same Patrick's Day. You know, it's so funny. This holiday is liquid vomit. If there was any... I hate this holiday. If it wasn't about white people, it would be considered the most racist holiday on Earth. Oh, yeah. The whole point is that you get drunk and vomit before noon.

Because that's what the Irish would do. Apparently. Because they were so happy. They were so happy they got rid of the snakes. Which in the end, if David Ike is going to be told that the reptilians is a Jewish euphemism, what are snakes? Oh, that's a good question. I mean, but there has to be a sober Irishman somewhere, right?

Only because he went through a program or he parked his car in his living room. I'm a sober half Irishman. There we go. Alright, that'll count. Happy St. Patrick's Day. Hi. Marcus. Heidi. Thank you.

Alright. Oh my God. So today's subject is amazing. We've been waiting a long time to talk about this. Who, boy? Who? Roswell, New Mexico. Something happened there?

You know what I'll say about Roswell? The Roswell incident. And we're going to be correct. There's a lot of source material. There's a lot of stuff out there. You believe me. Every time we put together one of these alien episodes, the idea always is that this one's going to be tight.

This one is going to be the one where we tell the story where everybody understands what happens. This is going to be the J.Lo's ass of alien conspiracy podcasts. No, I thought J.Lo's ass is good because it's loose. No, it's tight and big. No. Yes, you won. I like a bigger, looser butt.

You like a Nicki Minaj. That's also tight. Because the whole point is for it to feel like I want it to be clapping about it. We'll do a whole episode on it. Not having anything to do with the Roswell incident. Roswell is like the 9-11 of the UFO conspiracy world. It is the center of the hub of where all UFO conspiracy comes out of this motherfucker. Yeah, it's alternately called by some researchers a watershed moment in human history and, quote,

a boil on the ass of ufology by others. Of course, it is the most talked about, most written about, and most famous alien encounter that has ever been. Now, the extremely short version of the Roswell incident is thus, in 1947, an interplanetary craft of unknown origin crashed in southeastern New Mexico, 33 miles southeast of the small town of Corona. Yes, and that's why some of the most people UFO purists believe that it should be called the Corona incident rather than the Roswell incident because Roswell was this the town

where the incident was originally reported. And that's also because Roswell had a police station. Yeah. Roswell was also the county seat. I'm also going to put it this way. You can't have a gigantic international UFO incident if all you are is a Fudruckers next to a liquor store. Well, those Fudrucker managers, they could get to some investigating.

No, the problem with investigating is more like, I bet that night waitress Stacy's hiding tips in her vagina. I better go find it using my finding gloves. Which are just his hands. Right. Now, if the Roswell incident is true, if it happened the way UF researchers have claimed that it did, it is simultaneously the most impressive and the sloppiest cover up in the history of the United States of America.

Well, you guys had a CIA fucking spook in here like two weeks ago. I can still smell the iguana juice all over this chair. It sounds like CIA guys are heavily trained and they are built to respond to many incidents. But I think most of the time, CIA guys are just like really great improvers. They are. And they just roll with stories to see where they can kind of push it. And then if they can, they can just let it lie, they'll let it lie. Apparently one of the conspiracy angles on Roswell, one of all of them, every single conspiracy

angle that is available is available here on the Roswell incident. But one of the things that they want to say is that this is where it was born where the CIA realized, hey, if we just allow people to believe in UFOs, we can hide our entire secret space program. Every single experimental plane, we can fly it all over Chicago and everyone's going to be like, I'm going to UFO and it'll be fine for them. They can just hide it. But now they're realizing that the UFO phenomenon went out of control.

All right. Now from what I can tell, there are two ways to tell this story. There's the grim and gritty 90s action movie version via Philip Corso's book, The Day After Roswell, or the super fun 50s sci-fi version as told by Stan Friedman and the rest of the gang at the International UFO Museum and Research. We're trying to mash them together, though. Yeah. Well, we will say we're definitely mashing them together, but a lot of the information

that we get today comes from two books that I picked up personally at the International UFO Museum and Research Center actually located in Roswell, New Mexico. Roswell, by the way, an oasis in a desert of mess. I mean, if Roswell didn't have the International UFO Museum, if it didn't have this whole alien story, it would be like Hobbes, or Clovis, or Tukem Carrot, or Aztec, or Truth or Consequences. Oh, that sounds cool. Yeah. I mean, like Southeastern New Mexico is just a meth hellhole.

Yeah, but Roswell, they have a McDonald's shape like a UFO. You see? So this is why we cannot give these incidents to Corona, because if we gave them to Corona, all of the people who'd be traveling around the world to come see the UFOs would just be stuck in New Mexico with the crippling methamphetamine addiction. Isn't that said? Cactus Jack, one of my favorite pro wrestlers is from Truth or Consequences. It is also the legal name of the mayor of Corona.

Cactus Jack, well, you have two names, your mayor now. The books that we're using here, Witness to Roswell and UFO Crash at Roswell, the Chronological Pictorial 2, the authors, Tom Carey and Donald Schmidt, both of them considered to be the foremost experts on the Roswell incident, even if the two books contradict each other multiple times when they aren't contradicting themselves in the same book. Contradiction is sort of going to be the name of the game when it comes to the Roswell incident. There are many, many different storylines, and we are attempting, what we're trying to do with this first episode is tell the entire story as believed by UFO researchers.

And in doing that, we have had to really pin down the exact storyline, which is very difficult. It's extremely difficult. Because those are also possibly up to six different crashes that are a part of the Roswell incident. And technically, the main one is one crash that we're going to go into right now, the wreckage found by Mr. Brazell, who is of the New Mexico character himself, but they're probably up to five other crashes. Very well could be. And we're going to be using one word more than any other word, and more than we've used

it in any other episode. That word is allegedly. Allegedly. We're going to be using allegedly, and quote unquote is going to be used quite a bit as well. That's what keeps our asses safe, legally. I see. I was hoping for Quiznos.

We don't talk about how they toast their bread enough. Quiznos is disgusting. Yeah, it's gross. Yeah. Yeah. It's like dog food on two pieces of styrofoam. Well, they have a pepper bar. I do love a pepper bar.

No, UFO activity in the southeastern New Mexico area actually began the night before the crash on July 1st, 1947. Now, allegedly, radar activities in Roswell, Albuquerque, White Sands, and Alamogordo began tracking an object whose speed, acceleration, and maneuvers far outpaced anything seen on Earth up to that point. The next night, on Wednesday, July 2nd, at 9 p.m., Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot saw an object fly over their house that was shaped, quote, like two inverted saucers, faced mouth to mouth.

To lend more. Yeah. Yeah. We're having sex. That's how you make extra saucers. You call the top of a bowl, you call it the mouth of a bowl. Yeah. That's how they make them.

The problem with people describing UFOs back in the day is that nobody really knew what to say about it. Now we have the flying saucer thing. You always hear people struggling with the description. It sounds a lot of times. There's like, it was a pendulum type, oh, jibbity jabbity, hot air balloon. No, jibbity jabbity, that sounds more of a sound. But that's what I mean, but a sound, but like a thing I saw.

Oh, I see. Like if you could hear sounds. If jibbity jabbity was a visual image. You know how when you see the color red, you think of the number four? Yes, I do know about that. That's me. That's what I have. Do you smell smoke right now?

Oh, no, no, no. That's me just wearing this green shirt. That's what green smells like. Oh, I see. So yeah, the Wilmots did see, like they did actually say, like, yes, before the entire Roswell thing came out a few days ago, or a few days afterwards, them and a few other witnesses did actually report seeing something weird in the sky. So an hour and a half after the Wilmots saw the strange lights in the sky, the same radar

that picked up the craft the night before witnessed the same object pulsating and throbbing before streaking from one side of the screen to the other only to explode. And at the same time, a severe lightning and thunderstorm was pulverizing Foster Ranch outside of Corona, New Mexico, where a poor, simple ranch hand named Mac Brazel was watching the storm with his wife from a no electricity, no run in water, one room shack. They must have been so relieved when there was lightning storms because then they could see things at night. That is kind of fun.

God's flashlight. No Mac, along with other ranchers in the area, said they heard a sound that night much louder than a clap of thunder and much more like an explosion. Back in Roswell, a man named William Woody and his father, along with Mother Superior Mary Bernadette and Sister Capistrano, reputable all people, Bill Woody, Mother Superior and Sister Capistrano, who didn't trust them? I mean, you could trust them as witnesses, but they're terrible at a party. Yeah, I think so.

These three are actually four, Bill Woody and his father, plus the two nuns. They witnessed a flaming object white with a red contrail descending from the sky. And another man named Corporal E. L. Piles witnessed the exact same thing from a separate vantage point. Now all of these witnesses, they all independently reported this before this went national. Exactly. Which is very interesting. This was even before it went local.

Okay. Even before it went local. Oh my. Okay, great. Yeah, this was days before because the actual crash itself, this is July 2nd. The actual crash itself didn't even become, like there wasn't even a press release of it until July 8th. So we know these flying saucers are up there kissing and air having sex.

It seems to me like these aliens were maybe messing around. Maybe it was teenage aliens having a good time on a joy cruise and then they crash four or five days later. Or they were heavily investigating what is our gigantic, our pantheon of underground bases deep within the deserts of New Mexico. You don't think they were investigating the Corona trailer parks? Yeah, I mean, they were definitely looking for it's like, we heard there was a water slide here and we find it funny that you are lacking in water, but you use it for amusement

instead. You are doomed. That is very true. Now, the next day on July 3rd at one PM, police and multiple civilian witnesses see several discs flying in formation over Portland, Oregon, while a whole carload of witnesses reported seeing four of the same type of object, not three hours away in Redmond. And at the same time, United Airlines Captain E.J. Smith and his co-pilot reported five discs during their flight immediately followed by a second formation of four discs.

Now, if you believe Frank Kaufman, who looks like the Quaker Oatsman with the 1950s Army haircut, he arrived with the cladding group called the 9 in New Mexico at this point in time and went to the Roswell Air Force Base as a part of a weird sort of doughy version of the Expendables and was brought there to analyze UFO information they were getting. That's a whole alternate timeline. Yeah, that's if you believe Frank Kaufman. Frank Kaufman, who was known as- I mean, we're not even going to come out and say right now, yeah, let's go ahead and say

that some of these UFO people are more credible than others. Most are. Yeah. Most are not credible. I'm going to go, Stan Freeman, he's a nuclear physicist. I'm going to go ahead and take his word over Frank Kaufman. What's Frank Kaufman's day job? I don't know.

No, I trust him. Technically, he's a man who travels between intelligent offices. Yeah, you always trust a guy named Frank. So while all of these things are in the sky over the Pacific Northwest, military facilities in Washington and Oregon go on extremely high alert. And while the Pacific Northwest was in an absolute tizzy over those flying objects, the aforementioned sheep herder, Mac Brazel, was tending to his flock with a young boy named D. Proctor.

Now D. is somewhat lost to history and, with good reason, every attempt at interviewing D. Proctor before he died a morbidly obese alcoholic in Riodosa, New Mexico in 2006 failed. He had an almost pathological fear of even discussing the Roswell incident and was said to literally run out of a room at even the slightest mention of it. Which was difficult for him because he was 450 pounds. Yeah, they should have kept on mentioning it and then he would have lost some weight. All of a sudden he was in the 1984 Olympics. Yeah, that would be greater like Mike Tyson's punch out, the cutaway scenes where you would

bike and the trainer would chase you. Roswell! Roswell! Roswell! No good! Well what we're going to learn later on is that if a part of what gives credence for me for this whole story is the treatment that the US government gave a lot of these first responders, these people that were the first eyewitnesses to Roswell, they were

pretty heavily worked over and told that they were going to be murdered. They were, well, allegedly told that they were, because one very important thing to remember about Roswell is that there's a reason why our main source is called Witness to Roswell, because that's all there is. It's all witnesses, first-hand, second-hand, sometimes third-hand accounts. Oh, so you're saying we need physical proof? Yeah. Dog meat, your mind is far weaker than I thought it was.

What about reality? You know what I mean? What about reality? Yeah, what about reality? Just think about it. And that's, again, also your problem. I am thinking about it. That's your problem.

You're thinking about it. You see how I always said, for you to think about it? Uh-huh. And then I took it away from you. That's reality. My reality. You're just living in it. Yeah, I feel like if you see an alien spacecraft and it lands in your backyard, you have to

react the same way I react when I see someone peeing on the subway. Look away. You just don't mention it, never think about it, and never look at it, and then you're safe. So back in 1947, as the salty old ranch hand and his young boy assistant herded their flock toward the ranch's only water source, because remember this is southeastern New Mexico, absolute desert, kind of mixed with plains, but for the most part, pretty barren. The two found they were blocked by a field of debris, three-quarters of a mile long

and two to three hundred feet wide that his sheep refused to cross. Which is very interesting. There's a very, the beginning of the Roswell incident starts with literally laziness. A farmer's laziness. He couldn't handle it. That's not lazy. It's actually strikingly biblical. It's sheepish.

Well, no. I mean, it's always a sheep herder that finds the next level of intelligence. It just seems like sheep herders spend a lot of time alone and they're sick of talking to sheep. Well, I agree with that. And so they make up fanciful stories in their head, about being like, there's one time I saw a Jew who could fly in his holes in his hands. I could see through chicks clothes, what he would do is that Jesus, he called himself

Jesus. I think it was Jesus because he was brown and he said, if you look through these holes in my hand, you can see a girl's boobies. He know what I did and I did. Well, I don't want to know what you did because I'm complicit. Now cut into the middle of the debris field was a 500 foot gouge, 10 feet wide, but only a few inches deep. So it looked like the skid of an aircraft.

There were no marks to indicate jet propulsion, but whatever had gouged the land had been so hot that it allegedly crystallized the sand into glass. God damn. Yeah. And they found there's a bunch of examples of that of the of that glass that was created out on in the debris field. It's very interesting. This is where we talk about the mixture between the psychic and physical experience of aliens.

This is I don't know, I think it's I think it's interesting. Well the reason why the Roswell incident is so important to UFO lore and the reason why it's really survived in the minds of ufologists for so many years is because it's the only one that at any point had any physical evidence whatsoever. Yeah. It was this debris, the supposed debris field, but you know, any other time it's, you know, people see lights in the sky or they've been abducted for days at a time. The Roswell incident is the only time there's been that there is a possibility of physical

evidence, the holy grail of UFO. So it was a it was a just a few inches deep the gouge because the spacecraft itself is so light. Yeah. And it's and also technically if we want to believe what they say about the the supposed UFOs, alleged UFOs, is that they work using gravity engines. So literally they're lighter, they that's how they basically create a hole in gravity in front of them and then that absence of gravity pulls them through space.

Cool. Yeah. And Brazel, who still needed to get his sheep to water, led them around the edge of the gouge where he found a 10 foot piece of wreckage, which he loaded up into his cart and stored in his livestock shed. Later on, Brazel was drinking in a local bar and happened to mention that he was going to need help cleaning up a bunch of trash strewn around Foster's ranch that was turning out to be a huge pain in his ass.

Sheep aren't crossing. I got to take him around it every time. I got to get somebody out there to clean up all this bullshit. Brazel, if you'll remember, had no electricity, much less a TV or radio and depended on a monthly newspaper to find out what was going on in the world. He had absolutely no idea about the UFO stereo sweeping the nation in the late 40s. No. Yeah.

Because the newspapers aren't, you know, what's he going to read a newspaper? I don't know. Yeah. Nothing's happening. What are they going to do? They're going to say, like, hey, remember to feed the horses tomorrow morning, Mac? Once a month. Yeah.

Like, no. Technically, he is the biggest story of the month. He is the story. So he is the story. Yeah. He doesn't have to. Yeah. He's making his own.

He slaps his knees to have a good time. I like to see how long I could slap him and how fast I could slap him. It's my favorite hobby. Actually, it's called handboning. See? Do you see? It does sound like a good time. In America in the late 40s, I mean, there really was an hysteria of UFO sightings.

This is the absolute height of UFO sightings. People are reporting it left and right. And we're also, I mean, we're coming right out of World War II. And the U.S. government is actually testing quite a bit of experimental aircraft and experimental missiles, all shit that we stole from the Nazis. Literally operation paperclip is going strong at this period in time. We've got Werner Braun, the mad German scientist, is going to take us to the moon. You know what I mean?

Technically. And he did take us to the moon. It's true. Apollo 11 technically should have had a swathe to go on the side of it. And it probably did until the last 10 minutes. And finally, they were like, hey, guys, maybe we should scrape it off. We've got cameras everywhere. Oh, man.

And Werner's just like, how did the plane crash without the flow of the real energy? They're like, no, Werner, Werner, you know it's rocket fuel. We're calling it rocket fuel. But we'll also find interesting, I was going to bring it up before, there's a man named Chuck Wade, who's also a huge part of the Roswell story. And his father owned the bar that Mac Brazil would drink at. And a part of it was their connection, that farmer connection. And Chuck Wade's opinion was that the reason, because that was one of my, one of my things

I was kind of racking my brains about it being like, if these aliens are millennia ahead of us technology wise, why do they keep crashing? Right. How come we can keep helicopters in the sky and helicopters are essentially knives with a basket. Yeah. Underneath it. Yeah.

With gasoline running through it. Right. Right. How do we do that? But aliens keep crashing. As at these radar facilities were being used offensively. We found out accidentally that they could be used to take down UFOs. And what they did was they were taking down UFOs in the New Mexico area using radar.

I think they were drunk. That's what I'm going to go with. So that's another, that's another side quest. If you just want to type in Chuck Wade and see what happens to you there or Frank Kaufman and see what's wasted your days, like I fucking did. I have to say these are the bar conversations. I fantasized about being a part of as a child before you could go to the bar. And then you actually go to the bar.

It's just a bunch of idiots yelling about the Packers and how the Vikings are being. Yeah. I always wanted someone to be in like, you know, a dead body doesn't dance like I did when it was alive. That's a good bar conversation. But so rarely do they occur, but they, they struck gold with this one. They absolutely did because Brazils talking about all of this debris. He has no idea about the UFO Syria.

But one of the guys at the bar says like, you know, you're giving a $3,000 reward for anybody who's got a seat belt from a UFO. And Brazils just like, hmm, money makes grain come to the farm. Grain makes the pigs all fat and squiggly, which makes the pushing that much more smiley. It all comes back to him having sex with the livestock, Henry. Is that right? A little bit because it's God tells him, he's like, yeah, there's $3,000 and there's a newspaper out there.

You know, if you got evidence, they're going to give you three grand. And you know, to top it off has also needed, he literally needed someone to help him clean all this bullshit up. Yeah. He just needed someone to come. He literally was like, anyone y'all just come and help drag me off this fucking pit. Yeah. But so in order to possibly get some of this reward or at least see what was going on

with it, Brazil gathered up some of it in a shoebox and took it into Roswell, New Mexico the very next day. And the first person Brazil went to see was the local sheriff, George Wilcox. Now this is on July 7th. So he's this shit's been sitting out there for like a couple of days. Yeah. He went out there and he probably kicked it with his boot a couple of times. Right.

And it was like the weird liquid metal. So it was like four more on his boot and going, and then like a weird radio is going like that. Like a weird fucking like music from the, from the Kambana. What is that? The cantina. It's all, yeah, all that weird cantina Star Wars music coming out of it. And he's just like, I can't handle this shit anymore.

Yeah. It's craziness. So in one version of the story of the first interaction between Sheriff Wilcox and Mac Brazil, Wilcox sent out deputies right away to the site. The Wilcox said like, all right, we got to get people out of there or we got to get people out there. We got to see what's going on. But in another version of the story.

That's in the 1950s sci-fi version where he's just like, aliens, and that's right next to communists. Then they go out to go stop it. But yeah, no, in real life, he showed up and George was like, fuck you. George might as well have been making the jerk off motion with his hand the entire time Mac was talking. He's just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, okay, Mac, whatever. And he didn't even know Mac, you know, because Mac lived 75 miles outside of Roswell, New

Mexico. Mac never came to Roswell. He's a coyote person. Right. He's from the desert. You don't believe his stories. I'm actually kind of happy to hear the Sheriff didn't jump up and go do his job after all the stories we've had with children being abducted and sexually abused and Sheriff's

not doing anything. If this Sheriff would have just been like, well, this is what I was hired by the people to solve. I would kind of be upset. No, no, he's just like, yeah, whatever this, because you know, Mac had no run and water, no electricity. He smelled like sheep shit all the time. And so Wilcox is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever.

But then Wilcox gets a phone call from Frank Joyce, a young announcer from the local radio station KGFL. He was calling Wilcox to see if he had any hot tips for it was a very slow news day in Roswell, New Mexico. Frank Joyce looks sort of like an unattractive Truman Capote. Oh my goodness. An unattractive. Yes.

Capote had a certain charm to him. I guess like a reptilian turdlish charm. Like a Pillsbury Doughboy meets it with a cock. Yeah. Something like that. An anatomically correct Pillsbury Doughboy. So Wilcox immediately passed Brazel over to Joyce saying like, yeah, yeah, I got a guy with a fucking story for you.

Go listen to this fucking sheep farmer. And after listening to a short version of Brazel's story, Joyce currently suggested that Brazel immediately call the local Army airfield to report his discovery to them and with very good reason for Roswell. Army airfield was home to the 509th bomb wing and this is true. They were the only nuclear armed air strike force in the world at the time. It was the 509th who dropped the bomb on Japan and it was out of Roswell Army Air Force that the top secret Trinity Adam bomb tests had happened just two years before 50 miles outside

of Roswell. Basically they were outside of the Roswell Air Force base, which is staffed by some of the most ridiculously competent, if not extraordinary people like scientists and also it's spook central. Yeah. Like literally. I don't know why you keep saying the word spook. Because that's what they are.

That's what they are. CIA agents. Spooks. Yeah. Spooks. They're very nice and I do panel with a lot of them. Oh, I am not. We are not doing this.

We're not doing this. This is not. Fox News does not come on to this television show. I know. Bleep it out. This is a Fox News free zone. Bleep it out, Marcus. Yeah.

They are spooks. CIA people are nothing but tricksters. The whole point is that they are liars. They're professional liars. Well, I will say the atom bomb that we dropped, they failed miserably both of them for the most part. Only like 3% of the bombs exploded, so they weren't that smart. We killed a lot of people.

We could have killed more. That's all I'm saying. Could have killed a lot more. Well, what I'm saying is that they don't realize that when he just says go call the air force base and go talk to the boys in blue over there, you're literally talking to the original like the OSS army, like the people that was before the CIA were like with George Bush's fucking grandfather, like weird shit over there. And they're staffed by like, this is staffed by like leftovers from the Manhattan Project.

These are some of the most brilliant minds in the military at this time, which kind of makes you wonder why they handled it exactly. Why I don't know why no record producer has gotten an all black boy band together and called them the Manhattan Project. No, there was a, oh no, I'm thinking of the Manhattan transfer. Manhattan transfer is very different. So after Joyce seemed to take the case a little more seriously than Sheriff Wilcox thought it should be taken.

The sheriff, he was the one that called up Roswell AF after which the base dispatch the man without whom we would have no Roswell story whatsoever, Major Jesse Marcel. And you can literally see Sheriff Wilcox being like, you really want me to call it in? And him groan, go like, God damn it, and him taking off his hat and then picking up the phone staring. I mean, like, I'm not really calling this in. They're like, you've got to, you've got to Sheriff Wilcox, we got to stop these aliens from making everybody gay, and he's just like, all right, and he's like, like slowly dialing

the phone. Sighing in between each. So that afternoon, Marcel, along with fellow counterintelligence officer, shared in Cav Cavett, traveled out to Foster Ranch with Mac Brazel. But because of the terrible conditions of the roads, the men arrived too late in the day to inspect the site. The three instead spent the night in Max Shack eating cold beans and crackers, which in New Mexico is just what you do when you wait.

Yeah, I think everybody's got waiting beans and waiting crackers, right? We call it visiting. They could have warmed up the beans. No, no, no, no, no, they had fire, right? There was no lightning that night. Oh, I see. So you're just going to hope that the lightning strikes your beans. And then, honey, we got warm beans tonight.

And the main thing is you got to hope that none of your bushes are wet. And that's not even me being fun and sassy. I mean, the bushes can't be physically wet or the lightning won't catch. Oh, I see. So early the next morning, the three awoke and headed out to the site, Jesse Marcel in a Jeep and Cav Cavett on horseback. This is what Jesse Marcel had to say in 1978 about what they saw when they got there. I was amazed at what I saw.

The amount of debris in the scattered over such an area. It took me a while to realize that there's something strange about it, that the more I saw the fragments, the more I realized that it wasn't anything that I was acquainted with. I will say he actually sounds more articulate than I expected. Yeah. He's a hybrid. What do you mean more articulate than he expected?

You called it a meth desert. It's a meth desert. Well, because, I mean, he's just stationed in New Mexico. Oh, I see. He didn't grow up in New Mexico. Yeah. People from New Mexico are fucked. Oh, okay.

People that work at the highly, highly secret bases around New Mexico are all highly competent. Most of them German. Oh, okay. Now, here's what they found among the debris specifically. They found small to palm sized pieces of smooth, very thin, very light, but extremely strong pieces of aluminum like metal that could not be cut, scratched, bent, or burned. They also found a number of thin eye beams measuring 18 to 30 inches long by half an inch wide by three-eighths of an inch thick, light as balsa wood.

But not balsa wood. Okay. Light as balsa wood. Light as balsa wood is very fragile. Can be broken very easily. This could not be. These little eye beams also bore writing in the form of unintelligible symbols that resembled hieroglyphics.

What they said it looked like is it looked like hieroglyphics without the animals. Yes. There's no animals in space. That's letters, though. Yeah. There are animals in space, aliens. No. They're alien pets.

Yeah. No, I don't think aliens have pets from what I understand. We are the pets. Yeah. Are we the pets? Yeah. Do you remember ghost cats in the south? Do you remember the alien cats?

Hmm. Do you remember nothing? No. I remember alien cats. Of course I do. They also found thread-like monofilament wires that could not be damaged, a small, seamless black box that could not be opened, and a seamless flange or strut that could not be cut, scratched, bent, or burned.

The thing that's really interesting, this is the one that people always talk about. It's called memory metal. That's what they call it in ufology. And it was this very thin, very light metal or cloth with fluid-like properties. Henry, please, quote-unquote, metal or quote-unquote, cloth with, quote-unquote, fluid-like properties. But it was said, allegedly, that the material could be crumpled, but when placed on a flat surface would return to its original shape like liquid mercury, showing not a single crease.

Very cool. And that actually, this memory metal is what Roswell experts refer to, and most ufologists refer to as the holy grail of UFO research. Chuck Wade says he knows a guy who's got it. Oh, wow. Oh, listen. He's got a guy. He knows a guy who's got it, and he has several pieces of inch-long aluminum foil pieces that

he says that are a part of the flanges of the, again, I'm not even sure what a flange is. A flange is a good way to call a piece of a crash something, a part of it, without actually knowing anything about a plane. Yeah. So you just kind of ball it up, and then it unballs, and then, so that's kind of... You ball it up, and it unballs in a liquid mercury, in a quote-unquote, fluid-like manner without showing any crease.

We have nothing like this, but the super strong aluminum, the super strong metal, you could kind of explain that away. We do have extremely strong metals around, but we have nothing like the liquid metal, which is why they say that if we had this, it would be proof of extraterrestrial involvement with Earth affairs. And there are many people who talk about this memory metal. There are many witnesses, especially children, that were involved with this, because basically, once the cops went out there, and Marcel first went out there, and they were digging up,

and they were moving all of the debris off the field. There were kids, just literally running around playing with shit, and they were like, let them do it. And one, there was a girl, there was a farmer, a local farmer came to help remove the debris from the field, and she remembers picking up the metal and watching it melt in her hand, and then she threw it on the ground, and she was like, haha, that's fun, like kids do when they don't realize that they are a part of something fucking deeply cryptic and secret. And then they were apparently approached, allegedly approached by the CAA afterwards,

a man with a baseball bat, started talking to her, pulled her out on her front porch, slapped his bat against his hand, and said, you know, a lot of little girls go missing in the desert. That was Babe Ruth. It seems like people say, you know, you can get, what is it, with autism, if you get the vaccination, you can get autism. It seems like all these silver-lipped kids guaranteed to be autistic. They're libra babies, but with all this, they're libra babies on the inside.

So Major Marcel, who, by the way, should've known better than to pull something like this, he started loading up the trunk of his car full of this alien debris. Right, let me move out the vacuum, and I got a car jack in here, and just being like, is this a floating, this some kind of head of a bald Chinese man, we found out here? Alright, but it ding, ding, ding, just throw it in the trunk. Yeah, it seems like it's, you know what, to steal a term we always often use here. Silly nilly, they're just kind of going, where is the, where is the, um, importance? Uh, Cabot, after he loaded up all of his shit in the trunk of his car, he showed up at his

house at 2 AM, and shook his wife, an 11-year-old son, awake, and made them come into the kitchen to look at the shit, and play with the shit, because at the time, it wasn't classified yet. No, right. So he wasn't necessarily doing anything wrong. He was just showing his wife and kid some cool shit that he found out in the desert. Well, he said if this was really alien based, if this was non-terrestrial material, this is going to be the only time they'd get to see it, because it's about to become classified

in a hot second. I'm giving him. I mean, God knows if you're giving everybody cancer or not, but he didn't even think about that. Right, but this guy is father of the year, I gotta say, if you get woken up by your father, and he shows you alien materials, very cool dad. I mean, I don't know, getting woken up at 2 AM by your dad to tell you about something that he found in the desert that day.

It sounds like something your dad would have. Yeah, you would love that, Marcus. I mean, you'd think I would have. I know you would have. So according to Mary Cavett, the wife of Cav-Cavett, the other officer involved in the initial recovery of the debris, the Cavvets and the Marcells got together for their weekly bridge game a few days after the Roswell incident hoopla had settled down. And as the wives waited in the front room, Cavett and Marcell stood in the kitchen, hunched

over a pot with the stove turned up full blast, and inside the pot was a piece of wreckage that Marcell had kept for himself that the two men were trying and failing to damage. And after Cavett reminded Marcell that the piece was indeed now top secret and that they should not have it in their house in a pot on their stove, the two men stepped out onto the patio with the debris and returned empty handed to join their wives at their bridge game. The desert's the perfect place to get rid of things you're not supposed to have because then what you do is just throw it into the desert.

Right. Well, Chuck Wei talks about this, too, is that he said when he was bringing, in order for him to get the metallurgy, I don't know how do you, metallurgical? Metallurgical. Metallurgical? Metallurgical. They're gonna get this test done on the debris that he had. He had to saw it off using a circular saw, but he said the problem is that when he was

holding the metal using the circular saw on it to cut the section of it off, the metal would heat up so bad that he gave him second degree burns on his fingers. He could have worn a glove. It was very difficult for him to cut it. Yeah. He said it was very difficult for him to damage. So Chuck Wei is a whistleblower. All right.

Very good. Chuck Wei is also 72 years old and his entire talk when I was watching it was with Project Camelot. If you know anything about Project Camelot and you started watching any of those hours long interviews, they're very scatterbrained, they're all over the place and Chuck Wei the whole time is going, a bit of a phlegm problem. I would even believe there was up to seven sights and the alleged Roswell sights, number six.

And he was him. Then it was hours of it. Now, the odd thing about the Roswell story is that in some version, the army is a rabid, hyper vigilant force on top of every aspect of the story. And in others though, they seem to be almost cavalier and just fancy free about the entire situation. Well, this is where maybe you want to start believing about the Chuck Wei story. What he believes is that he, the government knew they had hit some of the UFOs and knew

where they were to crash. And so what they did was, is stuff like there was a young boy named Michael Anderson had found a UFO crashed outside of, it's not St. Augustine. It was, I forget, it was one of the other, one of the other crash sites around the Roswell area and basically found a saucer stuck in the dirt with an alien splattered on a wall like Wiley Coyote, which is how he described it. But the, the army was already there. They literally just showed up and they're like, you guys got to get the fuck out of

here. Took everybody's names. He's like, we're going to kill you. We're going to kill your kids. We're going to kill everybody. Get the fuck out of here. And they were right on top of it. Where the Roswell incident, that actual crash may have been a UFO that they hit with the

radar weapon and didn't realize that they had hit it. Because it's not specific. They just put blasts out and it's kind of like throwing dynamite in a lake to kill a bunch of bass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like what they did to kill a bunch of UFOs. And so then they, it took them a couple of days to catch up to this one. Yeah.

Fun fishing. But still, even if it took them a couple of days, they, on July 8th, and this is, I don't know, this seems to be one of the oddest parts of the story and something that I cannot figure out why they did this. The army released an official statement, almost casually stating that a flying saucer had been captured outside of Roswell a few days before by a sheep herder and mentioned Jesse Marcel by name as the man who had recovered it. And they said that he was taking it to higher headquarters.

He had loaned it to higher headquarters for further study. Why? Because the timeline is, we have six days, seven days now since the crash. Five days. Five days since the crash. Six days. So this would make sense if the government just straight up owns it, tells the truth, and it sounds so absurd, in reality, they might have been testing something that is much

more nefarious than having an alien spacecraft come down and land, right? Or, but the way they debunk it originally is they say that they made a mistake, right? They saw something, they made a mistake, they called it a flying saucer, and they sent it to their PR people before anybody double-checked it. But you're also talking to some of the number one, these are the Air Force. This is army, this is before the Air Force. They still got planes, they're right next to the goddamn Air Force, and they know what it is, and they thought it was going to be a weather balloon.

The first thing you'd say is a weather balloon, you'd just be like, oh, it's a fucking balloon. And it's made out of liquid metal, and then we want to talk about that it's fucking colossus shit, out of the middle of a debris. They just got the verbage wrong though, and they're like, maybe we shouldn't have called it a flying saucer. No! Flight saucer's very obviously one thing. Yeah, but maybe they just weren't, maybe they didn't really like understand the phenomenon

that was happening. It was not a goddamn balloon. No, it definitely wasn't a balloon, but it's so weird that they would actually say flying, so I almost think that it was someone like Sarcass, someone accidentally- Yeah, it's a flying saucer. Yeah, why don't you go ahead and put out a press release and tell them that it's a flying saucer. And that gets breakers.

But Gene Wilkers, Mr. Marcel, I'll get right to the papers and do it. They're going to be way interesting to this story, the aliens are everywhere! So naturally, with the U.S. in the throes of UFO mania, the story was very quickly picked up by the A.P. Wire and was reported in multiple evening editions of newspapers across the country. And in addition to that, Frank Joyce, the reporter who had originally suggested that Mac Brazel report the debris to the Army, had caught back up to Brazel to do an interview. What follows comes from a testimony that Joyce gave in 1998, and this is to the best recollection

of a man in his 80s giving a testimony of something that happened 50 years previous, is how that interview went. Oh God, oh my God, what am I going to do, it's horrible, horrible, it is just horrible. What's that? What's horrible? What are you talking about? The stench, it's just awful. Stench?

From what? What are you talking about? They're dead. Who? Who's dead? Little people. Where? Where did you find them?

Some place else. Well, you know, the military is always firing rockets and experimenting with monkeys and things, so maybe- God damn it, they're not monkeys, and they're not human, damn it. And the Oscar for best person responding to Henry goes to Marcus. Very good, Marcus. You got into an old-timey reporter, three lines in. He was an old-timey reporter.

Oh, okay, no, I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a- he was an old-timey radio guy. Perfect. This made me briefly pause in this story again to remind you that Roswell incident's been heavily debated over the years, and this is just a toe sticking into the mud of this fucking horrible complex story, and this is- and it's true, these discrepancies would make this both easily the most debunkable UFO case in the world.

A boil on the ass. But also, the facts of these gigantic mistakes were made, points to something where it's either our government's bad at doing a bunch of shit, which we could see with IE 9-11, or it's a part of a long game. Technically, our government was very good at 9-11. No, no, no, 9-11 just happened by like- it's like if I figured out how to make caramel by just like leaving a bunch of sugar in the sun, and let it burn, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, look at caramel.

That's what they did with 9-11. They just kind of let it happen. Yeah. It's caramel. Yeah. It's a different type of people. No, the caramel. This caramel?

I'm a caramel guy. Well, that is what makes us essentially different and no longer friends. Oh, right. Now, while it seemed as if the military in Roswell might not have been taken all of this seriously enough, Washington, D.C. sure as hell was, because it said that some of the wreckage had been on July 7th, had been collected and shipped off to Washington while most of it was kept in Roswell while they just sort of waited like, ah, we don't know what the hell it is.

Literally cooked at it with boots and fanned at it with hats. Yeah. Roswell was almost like, we don't know what it is and we don't care. But soon after the official Army statement was released from Roswell and shortly before the brazil interview was to air, KGFL, Roswell got a phone call and on the other end of the line was the secretary of the FCC warning the station that KGFL Roswell would lose their broadcasting license if they aired the brazil interview citing quote unquote national security and UFO riders every single time they write the words national security, it's in quotes.

It's always in quotes, like in the name of national security. Yeah. Man, these guys would have been great on Reddit, bunch of snarky shitheads. You know what's weird is that after the fact they're bad on Reddit, even now they're bad on it. Like we're back in the day there would have been good. This is such a fun time though, the FCC regulating radio communications because they're talking about alien intelligence.

Now, like back in our, back in our time it was Howard Stern who could take the biggest dump on air and the FCC was like, can you not have people's shit on air? The idea was just how fun. Yeah. The FCC is mostly debating as to whether or not they're allowed to show Miley Cyrus's pubic hair. Right. Right.

Is she over 18? Is it just the pussy area that we need to cover or is it the hair as well? Does she dye it? And soon after KGFL got the call from the FCC, the station got another call from Senator Dennis Chavez telling them the exact same thing. Now, if you want to believe Frank Kaufman, which nobody does because essentially he's been entirely debunked after he's died, they went through all his papers and it turned out he was not a part of the expendables.

He's not a part of a thing called the nine that he said was a part of a super claddison group that would go invest in UFOs outside of the U.S. government. But did he write that he was lying in his personal diary? No, no, no. He just had stuff. His whole office was just littered with heavily forged documents. Oh, okay. And he, but his storyline is that him and Dennis Chavez were in a bunker.

They were out in this big hangar that had all of the material that was left in Roswell all spread out with giant spotlights over it. And you got this message from Dennis Chavez's chauffeur that was outside waiting for me. I sit and I wait for the senator and I go and he says, no look, no look is high, but I look so curious. I look in there, man with big head, body lying on ground. I think it was an alien. You know, he may have been Chinese, I don't know, but I get him fresh water and I had

government to back for him. That's very nice. But he was, this BBC documentary with, it's actually pretty amazing. I have to put it on the Facebook page. They had a lot of good eyewitness testimony, including many chauffeurs. So of course KGFL after they got the call from the FCC and after they got the call from Senator Chavez, they complied. And at the same time, a similar situation was unfolding in Albuquerque at KOAT radio.

And a woman named Lydia Sleppy, who worked at KOAT, got a call from a reporter named Johnny McBoyle who said, Lydia get ready for a scoop, we're going to get this on the wire right away. Listen to this, a flying saucer crash, it crashed near Roswell, it's a big crumpled dishpan. And get this, they're saying something about little men being on board and I'm not talking midgets. Isn't that nice?

You could say that back then. And so Lydia, high on a big scoop, rushed to the teletype to disseminate the new info about little men. But before she could type even a couple of sentences, a bell rang indicating an outside interruption. What came through is as follows. Attention Albuquerque, do not transmit, repeat, do not transmit the message, stop communication immediately, national security matter in quotations.

And when Sleppy told Johnny McBoyle about this, he said, forget about it, never heard it, look, look, you're not supposed to know, don't talk about it anymore, don't, Lydia, I love you, Lydia, you're bigger than you used to be, I like that shirt on you, I hate those shoes, take it out of my face, and never say UFOs ever again, and I didn't tell you, somebody else did. Kind of like a Casablanca type thing. I mean, I would say it is a matter of national security, I would have to agree with the government if aliens have landed, crash landed on, in America, that is a national security concern.

Yes it is. I mean, do you remember what happened when there was a fucking radio show in New Jersey about aliens war of the worlds that were riots? Hell, they did it once in Argentina and six people died. Amazing. Yeah. Back when radio had real power, back when we could kill. Yeah, we're not killing anybody on this show.

But Johnny McBoyle's story was proving to turn out to be allegedly true for back at the crash site gruesome discoveries were being made. Now this is another heavily debatable area of the Roswell incident story. Most controversial, the least agreed upon, and the most contradictory. I found, I don't know, eight, ten different completely contradicting reports as to what it, as to what the bodies were, if there were even bodies, a lot of the body stuff comes to a second hand, sometimes even third hand, sometimes even outright speculation presented as fact.

Yes, because some say they had an alive alien, and some say they don't, and some say that they were hanging out of the console, and some say they weren't, some say there was one lying in a field, it's like none of it matches and their descriptions of them don't match, like Frank, like the people that originally saw the body say they look like traditional greys, but then Frank Kaufman is just like, no, they're very elegant people, they have slight almond eyes, slight almond like eyes, yes, but they're actually very sweet, and they have ash colored skin. Well we were talking about this yesterday, the reason why there's so many discrepancies

in the Roswell story, and why there's so many different ways to tell this story, yes, especially the Frank Kaufman thing, is that every single researcher, there's been so much written about this. Thousands of pages that we have, we're not even skimming, we just got through, we went through a couple of books. Thousands, tens of thousands of pages written about this, and that's not even counting all the shit that's been written on the internet about this, that's just the books alone, and how many coast to coast episodes have been devoted to Roswell.

Every UFO researcher wants to put their remix on it, they want to put their spin on it, they want to put their part of the legacy into it, so that it makes it more complicated as it goes, because every person adds something, look at Stanton Friedman, because this whole episode only began because we wanted to do Majestic 12, but we could not do Majestic 12 without covering Roswell first, but Stanton Friedman has one tiny section of Roswell, those Majestic 12 papers, he's turned into a 30 year career. And it's a side quest, that's like doing the thing in Final Fantasy 7, where you make the giant birds eat the eggs, or whatever that shit is.

Yeah, you go on like Apple picking missions. As far as the bodies go, allegedly, Glenn Dennis, a young mortician on duty at Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell, received a number of calls from the Roswell AAF Mortuary Officer asking about the availability of small caskets. The second call Dennis got was concerning various chemicals, and what effects they would have on the blood and tissue of a deceased body, and also what procedures should be done for preparing a body that has been exposed to the elements. And when you hear the details of what the crash scene was actually like according to

some people, you'll understand exactly why the base mortuary officer was at a bit of a loss. But yeah, you literally have five tiny people that are all mashed up in different ways, and the first thing, you get a call from an army officer, it's like, hey, uh, hey, uh, yeah, this is Colonel, uh, this is Colonel, uh, Bubba Duck, I'm making it, I'm not making up a name, but let's say I'm making up a name, can I get five children's coffins over to this field right now? Well, it seems like if aliens land, do we have to give them a human funeral?

No, this is one of those weird, like New Mexico things that they threw in there being like, well, the government wanted to make sure they got a proper burial. It was an open casket? I mean, what's happening? Well, they wanted it, they needed to transport them somehow, and they thought it would be easier to transport them if they're transporting children's coffins. Yeah, that looks good for the government to just have a bunch of children's coffins lying around.

I promise that no one really wants to, like, fork one open and see what's inside, you know, because then you have to deal with all the, my son's still alive? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I will say, if you have lost one, uh, a loved one recently in the arena coffin, just check it out. They might be alive. Oh, I will say this. You never know. You never know.

When I, when I die, and if I, if I decide to be buried in a coffin, I am now saying this on the radio so you are legally bound to it. Once every five years, you are to dig open my grave, open up the coffin, and make sure I'm still inside. I feel like you're just going to haunt all of us every five years we're going to get together. That's a part of this. And it's going to be like, I know what you did last summer, and it's going to be terrifying.

Hey, you know what time it is, it's five years coming up, oh, I'll get the shovels. Yep. The whole time. You're still dead. Just me smiling, but not have decomposed at all. His nails are still growing. Now the bodies themselves were allegedly your classic grace. Of course, like, like Henry said, there are some people that say differently, but really

the closest we can come to a consistent consensus is that they were classic grace three feet tall, about 40 pounds, huge heads with large eyes, or as one official put it, quote, Oriental or mongoloid. It was a different time period, slightly racist. They said they were the eyes were deep set and wide apart. Like a Harry Dean Stanton. And in a detail that I've never actually heard before about the grays. Maybe you've heard this one, Henry.

The skin was covered in a slight peach fudge. Never heard that before. You've never heard that? It wasn't green, but rather a pinkish gray with stretchable skin with a mesh like texture. Not unlike that of an iguana, someone's gilding the lily. You know who I blame? Frank Cuff. I agree.

Dr. LeJune Foster, a renowned expert of spinal cord surgery and a former undercover FBI agent during World War II, was brought in to study the nervous systems of the mysterious creatures. I don't know what these are, but they're fucked up. That's your professional, yeah. Yeah, I'm a doctor. I've been a doctor for years. You know, I'm an expert in spinal cord injuries and the nature of the human body and all of these things are fucked to shit and they give me the creepy weepies and I'm about to shit

my pussy. Okay. They're fucked up. They're fucked to shit. They give you the creepy GPs and you're about to shit your pussy. I got to get out of here. You stand by those comments. I just want to be done.

I absolutely. I'll sign. I'm signing the form. I'm dating it. This is the official form. Yeah. July 7th, 1947. I got to go because I have to clean all this goopy fucking bottom throw up out of my old

hole here. Okay. Because this is just, I am beside myself. I say don't even bother coming back. She was understandably shaken by the experience and was told afterward that if she said anything, her medical license would be revoked and she would be killed. She was often remarking for years upon years afterwards. Someone in the government is trying to keep me quiet.

It doesn't sound like they're doing a good job. They seem to be talking an awful lot. Yeah. And it seemed like from what the description was, it seemed like it was just something she would mutter to herself. Her pussy's all full of shit. Yeah. Well, I do believe that.

She's wiping wrong. Her pussy's all full of shit. Thinking of an alien 24-7, government's trying to put a fucking muscle on her. You can be hygienic. Like she's some kind of dog. You can still be hygienic and think of an alien. She's got shit up in her pussy. Well, I know.

But I don't think that has anything to do with the alien invasion that happened during Roswell. Poor stinky LeJune. I wish she could get her shit out of her pussy and be ready and be able to live free. Flush it out. She could. Get a hose on it. All right.

No. Pay a kid in the neighborhood a quarter. You cannot pay a child to scoop. God damn it. In 1940, 70 could. Well, you could pay a kid to do a lot of stuff then. Now, Dr. LeJune Foster was not the first, nor the last person involved with the Roswell incident to be threatened with physical harm or even death.

And in fact, most people got a treatment one step further and were told that not only they, but also their entire families would be killed. And it was said that even locals such as Sheriff Wilcox were drafted into the government goon squad with many saying that Wilcox delivered death threats personally. Wilcox, not so coincidentally, never ran for sheriff again and according to family and friends was said to have been absolutely destroyed by the entire experience. Well, Roswell got run over by the government at this point in time. Like now it's like you literally have like normally I imagine there was a pretty healthy

divide between the army base and the town proper where the cotton was like a sleepy town. And maybe little skirmishes would happen like the three cops would come and kind of deal with. And it was like, it was very small beans. But now literally you have the sore on eye on you of the US government who has decided to like, well, maybe if it's on the UFO, it's something fucking top secret. And they're showing up and now you got to deal with them 24 times. It's going to ruin your life.

You had one in here. You had one of those stinky fucking lizard ops right in this fucking studio. No, it was over the phone. He was over the phone. They don't come in here. No, you know what? They don't come in here. They will see him tonight.

You know why? Because this is a free speech zone. You see him tonight, you pants him and you tell him what comes from me. You will murder me. But out of every witness, the one who was manhandled and hassled the most was that poor old sheep herder, Mac Brazel. Man, and he was just being Santa Claus with the whole thing. All he wanted to do is make his pigs fatter.

So the pushing was sweeter. On July 9th, the day after the original story broke, Mac Brazel was hauled up to the Roswell Daily Record by military personnel to completely retract the statement that he had given the day before about the flying saucer. Instead of reporting a 500 foot gouge strewn with pieces of strange otherworldly material, Brazel now claimed that what he found was actually nothing more than rubber, scotch tape printed with pretty little flowers, tin foil, and wooden sticks. Not only that, but it was also confined to a much smaller area.

They didn't need to make him say that he made a big to do about finding a children's kite. It sounds kind of fun. Yeah, in other words, it was simply the remnants of a weather balloon. Now let's just go ahead and start off here with the weather balloon story. And the weather balloon story, this is what points towards it being something rather than nothing. It doesn't point towards it being aliens. It's not the...

I will always say it points towards it being aliens, but that's me. I am now completely switched on this idea. Before I thought Roswell was bullshit, but now I actually think that they found something from an extraterrestrial nature. Well, you're using the ignorance fallacy right now. Saying what you don't know is what you don't know, but what you know is what you know. But what you don't know sometimes can be bigger than what you know. You sound like Donald Rubbs Bell.

I can't even deal with it. I'm just saying it's about what you know and what you don't know. No, you don't know. You don't know, but what is it that you don't know? I don't know. So bigger than what you know. We can't go down this road. Something bigger.

And that is the ignorance fallacy, that what you don't know has to be what you want to know. No, no, no. Some of what you need to know. All right. But I'm on a need to know basis, but you know what I need to know? Everything. And there's a bunch of stuff I don't know.

And there's a bunch of stuff that I do know is also highly debatable. But I do believe that the stuff I don't know is going to be more important than the stuff I know. Right. So what you don't know. Because of how little I know. Sure. It makes all the sense in the world.

But either way, the weather balloon story and the government subsequent explanations of the story point towards this being something bigger, whether it was, you know, some sort of experimental aircraft or whether it was, whether it came from the Russians, the Americans or something completely different, something happened out there and it was absolutely not a weather balloon. Here's the reason. Here's a few reasons why that story doesn't hold weight. First of all, Roswell AAF launched two weather balloons a day from the base.

Water. Weather balloons are all up their ass. They've been looking at weather balloons fucking every day for years. They know what fucking weather balloons look like. Yeah. It's got Kav Kavit and Jesse Marcell. High ranking intelligence officers. They know what a fucking weather balloon looks like.

Looks like a goddamn balloon. I don't know what a weather balloon looks like. It's a balloon. It's a what the the weather balloon that they use, it was a it was just a big balloon. It's got like a parachute thing on top of it and it's got radar markers on it. It's got pretty much tinfoil. It's got like a big piece of tinfoil on it. And second of all, not only did Kav Kavit and Jesse Marcell know what a weather balloon

looked like. Brazel knew what a weather balloon looked like. They sent up two a day. Every rancher and ranch hand in southeastern New Mexico knew what a weather balloon looks like. Yeah, they would spend their afternoon shooting at them. Right. Isn't it always just like hot and sunny in New Mexico?

No, no, no, no. But it's that's not what the weather balloons are for. Technically, it's they're supposed to be guideposts for what will eventually become harp. That's actually true. That is a true thing, but we'll talk about that again for the rest of our lives. Allegedly true. Allegedly.

But what I don't know is what I do know. Well, the government, they're still going with at least a variation on this story to this day. The government would double down almost 50 years later in an almost 1000 page report called the Roswell Report Fact Versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert. I also believe that sometimes they make these reports the same thing with the 9-11 Commission. They make them so thick and boring so that people like us won't read them. Oh, totally.

You know what? They were right. Because most of the report is about something called Project Mogul. A very, very, very little of the report is actually about the Roswell incident. They outline Project Mogul in its entirety because they say, no, it wasn't a weather balloon. It was Project Mogul. Yeah.

But Project Mogul. The secret weather balloon. It's a super secret weather balloon that was just twice as long as a normal weather balloon and it was sent up to space with microphones on it in order to maybe hear when the Russians were testing nuclear weapons. But also they had a couple other things going on. They had Project High Dive, which is a thing that they would just send a man up into space and throw him out of the side of an airplane.

Literally, he would just leave the atmosphere a dummy. No, and they were using live tests as well. Oh, god. They were using live tests and so they were just sitting guys up there with a fucking fabric strap in the back. I'm like, all right, well, see, I hope you live. Well, because of that, we got Greg Luganus. So that's very good.

Well, the problem with both of those explanations, the problem with both of those, specifically Mogul, is that Project Mogul, there was a newspaper article published less than a week after the Roswell incident outlining Mogul's exact purpose. We literally have it and it's in one of the witness books. I have it. I have a photocopy of the actual and it outlines exactly what the government said Project Mogul was 50 years later. It just didn't call it Project Mogul.

So this was not, Project Mogul was not highly classified. And speaking of classified, if Project Mogul was highly classified and then declassified, there would be tons of paperwork. Not only paperwork about Project Mogul, but there would also be paperwork about the paperwork and no such paperwork exists. No paperwork. About the paperwork. What I don't know is what I know and what I know now is what I don't know.

Even more paperwork on the teletype of theirs. And even though the government said that the Roswell report would be their final word on the subject, two years later, they released another report called the Roswell report case closed. Well, that's like every horror movie when they kill Jason at the end. You know he's coming back. And that addressed the subject of the bodies and the Air Force claimed that the bodies were actually just flight test dummies from, what was it, Operation High Dive?

Operation High Dive. There was another one. It was the same thing. They did the same thing with monkeys. They just took a monkey, strapped a parachute to it, and threw it out of the side of a fucking space shuttle. Is it possible they were just burnt monkeys? Well, no, well, let's allegedly, you don't know is what you don't know when it's invalid

or what. I don't know is valid. Well, the only problem with that is that those operations didn't happen. Them throwing it because they said that the bodies were actually test dummies, and that's what people found. The only problem, that program didn't start till 1953. And not only that, the dummies were six foot tall and 175 pounds. But the government, what they like to do is basically say that we're all idiots.

And that we are, they came out in 1953. They think that everybody in Roswell, because there's a lot of retroactive eyewitness reports are coming back and doing interviews after the fact, they're saying they're doing all the shit. They call it time compression. Time compression, where they believe that people are seeing the air dummies lying in the desert in the fifties, and then applying them to the Roswell story. And it gets to a point where it's like, now you're fucking, you're trying to tell me,

you're trying to change my reality by telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about. But it's like, I saw. It's much easier not to see though, I will say, you almost give, you almost relieve somebody from their memory, don't you? Now you're starting to sound like Fox News. No, I mean, this is, people are leaving us of the burden of memory of reality. Now you're starting to sound like a disinformation agent. No, this is all disinformation.

It's all disinformation. It is quite possible that it is all disinformation. It was the Russians the whole time. We'll get into it. Yeah, we'll get into that next episode. But back to Mac Brazel for just a second. After retracting his story with the newspaper, Brazel was reportedly kept under house arrest at Roswell AAF for a week, was denied access to a phone, and was given a rigorous army

physical much to his participation. A rigorous physical is the last thing you want to have to go through. It's a water pick and rubber gloves. Oh my goodness. And he was said to be bitter about the experience for the rest of his life. But he couldn't have been too bitter for not long after the incident. Mac Brazel, who it must, this must be reiterated, lived in a no electricity, no running water shack in the southeastern New Mexico desert suddenly showed up with a brand new truck

and abruptly resigned from a sheep herding position at Foster Ranch to start his own business. Well, his Etsy shop must have really taken off. Yeah, it must have. So, it's actually a happy ending for Brazel. I mean, he did get possibly molested. No, he was vigorously physical. This way.

What happened to him is no worse than what happened to Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman. I suppose. So the government's Richard Geer? Yes. Okay. Well, that's part one of Roswell. That is, you know, a big, that is a huge part. We weren't able to get to the entire official story.

But next episode, we will give you just a little bit about Mac Brazel, what actually happened after the recovery of the crash. And then we'll tell you why all of that probably, probably bullshit or it's an extra dimension of conspiracy theory deeper than the official storyline. Yeah, which I think is the most likely, the most likely story. There's obviously some sort of disinformation running through this whole story, the way they package it, the way they want us to, the way they attack the witnesses is very interesting. If they really wanted to cover up a balloon project, which they weren't even covering

up in the first place, why would you go and threaten children with murder? Yeah. They leave people from their memories. Oh, God. I like the sounds of that. Yeah, that sounds good. That's just, yeah. All right.

I can see you in the same outfit doing it, but on a gigantic like, like screen in the middle of Times Square and people going like, yes, yes, President Kissel, yes, President Kissel. Yeah. So it's Josse Bank, like a magical word. Like is it a magical phrase that makes people forget, Ben? I don't know. But at St. Patrick's Day and they're selling 23 for one on suit jackets.

It's amazing. Oh, I cannot wait to get more into this subject. Awesome job. Um, all right. Thank you guys so much for listening. We're picking through. Um, we're really picking through, uh, first, I want to, first of all, I want to thank, uh, as always research assistants, Megan, Sammy and Lana for helping out with this.

They were invaluable. Uh, and I also want to, uh, give a little shout out to longtime listener, Beth Waldron, who's given, who's going through a real hard time right now, chin up. You'll make it through. Hail Satan, Beth. Hail Satan, Beth. If you see an alien product anywhere, keep on walking unless you want to get vigorously physical.

Pick up a little piece of it, put it in your pocket. Don't tell anybody until you're 75 and then hand it to a scientist. Uh, thank you guys so much for supporting the Patreon. Yeah. Go to patreon.com slash last podcast on the left. If you are already a Patreon supporter, or if you become a Patreon supporter before this Sunday, we're going to be doing a full hour long Q and A session. We're going to be answering you guys questions live.

We're going to be, uh, if you go to your Patreon, every single Patreon supporter from the $1 person up to, uh, the people who have given us a very generous amount of money who we love you very, very much. Is this one of those, is this going to be one of those things where they can tip us and we have to jerk each other off? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that. Is it a chatterbait type thing?

Chatterbait. It's more of a ASMR thing. We're like, we rub balloons and with, I hope that you are feeling comfortable and I know that you are a special friend. That's creepy. All right. Find these guys on Instagram. Marcus Parks is at Marcus Parks.

Henry, you're a doctor. Dr. Fantasty. Yes. And you're also on Twitter at Henry loves you Marcus Parks is on Twitter and Marcus Parks. I'm on Twitter at Marcus. Marcus Parks also. Yeah, great.

Double plug. Double follow. Last podcast on the left on Instagram at LP on the left. And I just want to say thank you so much for the support I've gotten from the Netflix character special. Um, a bunch of people watch it and have reached out to me and said very kind words and means a lot to me. It's a project that had meant a lot to me personally.

Um, I, it's, it, thank you. And Hail Satan, you guys are a beautiful bunch of people. That's great. And keep on supporting all the shows here on CCR Markets and I do a political one called a bling and stop at, which is heating up because the world's burning down. Uh, what are you doing? It's over. What are you doing?

The elections over. I don't know. Well, we, we'll talk to more agent. This is our second election that we've gone through. We went through 2012. We came out of that just now we elect a monster and then we talk about how many people they kill while they're in an office and then we go through the cycle again. Yeah.

That's pretty much all we do over and over and over. Yeah. And then if you want to feel like you're just drinking with some friends, listen to round table of gentlemen, uh, sex and other human activities and page seven as well for celebrity gossip. And that's with Jackie Sabrowski. And if you want to listen to my new music show, go to a mix cloud.com a slash Marcus parks to go listen to the lucky bone show and go follow.

I have literally dozens of playlists over on Spotify. We're literally, we're too busy. Yeah, we are too busy. But you know, the great thing is I love what I do. Yep. And CCR is in your face. You've got a twinkle in your eye. You're standing taller.

You're looking more confident. Your skin is clear. Your teeth are the same. Yeah. Teeth are the same. Yeah. And I'm keeping them. I'm keeping it.

Just to keep your teeth. I'm keeping them. Yeah. I'm keeping them just the way they are. Is there an option? I've got a hole. And I'm keeping the hole. All right.

I'm not, I'm not replacing that tooth. Good. I lost that tooth. And it's gone and it ain't coming back. Hell yeah. Ladies, deal with it. It's like getting a new dog after one dies. Don't do it, man.

Just keep the memory of the old dead one. That's right. All right, guys. Uh, hail yourselves. Hail Satan. Hail Geen. Hail me. The nations, you fuck.

For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to cavecomedyradio.com.